Sonia Exelby | “My Time’s Up” - Her Chilling Final Messages (Part 3)

Consider supporting and donating to The Kaylee Goncalves Foundation/Murder Has a Name here: https://www.murderhasaname.com/ There are some people who disappear all at once - One day, they're there, and the next day, they're gone. But sometimes, a person disappears slowly. So slowly that the people who love them don't realize what's happening until they look back and understand that they had been losing them for years. 32-year-old Sonia Exelby was the youngest of six children, and for much of Sonia's life, there were people who loved her very much. But somewhere along the way, Sonia began slipping away from them. At first, it looked like depression. Then isolation. She stopped going out, stopped answering invitations. Stopped letting people in. Until eventually, much of Sonia's world existed through a screen. Online, she could be whoever she wanted to be. She could talk to strangers about the things she was afraid to tell the people who loved her - but listening and helping are not always the same thing...

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:11Stephanie Harlowe?

  Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Crime Weekly. I'm Stephanie Harlow.

• 0:14Derrick Levasseur?

  And I'm Derek Levasseur.

• 0:16Stephanie Harlowe?

  So today, we are diving into part three of the Sonia Exelby case. In parts one and two, we followed 32-year-old Sonia Exelby from England to Florida after an online relationship with a man named Dwayne Hall took a very dark turn. Sonia secretly flew from London to Gainesville on October 10th, 2025, where Hall picked her up and drove her to an Airbnb in isolated Reddick, Florida. Hall would later claim that Sonia had come to Florida because she wanted him to kill her, but as investigators began reconstructing what actually happened inside that Airbnb through financial records, physical evidence, deleted material recovered from Hall's phone,

• 0:57Stephanie Harlowe?

  and most importantly, Sonia's own words, a much more complicated and disturbing picture began to emerge. And in this episode, we are going to start with what I think is one of the most unsettling pieces of evidence in this entire case, a piece of evidence that we've been referring to, but haven't actually given video footage of because I didn't think the video was available.

• 1:21Derrick Levasseur?

  Likewise.

• 1:21Stephanie Harlowe?

  Apparently, some parts of it are.

• 1:24Derrick Levasseur?

  Again, shout out to you guys. That was, that was one of our listeners, Megan, last week. Actually, she's from London. She was like, hey, there is a little bit of video out there. I actually found it and provided the timestamps because it was in a much longer video. And these, these were just a couple clips. So shout out to you guys coming through. That was amazing.

• 1:42Stephanie Harlowe?

  We're gonna start this episode going over those clips. So I did, you know, Derek had mentioned to me last week, I was like, oh, and he sent me a link.

• 1:50Derrick Levasseur?

  You were like, wait, what? There is?

• 1:51Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. And I said, I don't even want to click this link. Like, I don't even know if I want to see this. It wasn't what, as bad as I thought it would be, but still knowing what happened to her. Like, that just is bad anyways, right? So it was uncomfortable to watch. It was uncomfortable to kind of go over.

• 2:07Derrick Levasseur?

  I think what's important about the video is the big looming question, as we kind of get ready for this trial, is whether or not this was something that was done because it's what Sonia wanted, or was there a point during this interaction where Sonia decided to back out of it and said, you know what, I don't want to go through with this. Now that I'm faced with it, I'm realizing there are other alternatives. And at that point, allegedly, did Dwayne say, well, too late? And this video just gives us a little window into what the, I guess, the atmosphere was at that time. And honestly, it's open to

• 2:47Derrick Levasseur?

  interpretation. We're gonna analyze the video. You got, you are gonna analyze the video, and we're all gonna have different opinions on it. So after you watch it, please weigh in down in the comments. Let us know what you think, because there's no wrong answer. It's all just opinion-based. But I do think it's important to have a little bit of a look inside that room, probably within a couple hours of Sonia being killed.

• 3:12Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, I agree. There's a lot of analysis to be made about this, even based on what we hear from Sonia about herself in this video. So there, there is stuff to talk about, but let's kind of ease into that because it is a little upsetting. And I know you wanted to mention something at the top of the episode before we dove in.

• 3:32Derrick Levasseur?

  I know, horrible segue, but, but Ashley, who's doing all the fulfillment for our merchandise, if I don't put this out there, she'll kill me. I should have put it out last week. Merchandise, all in stock for Crime Weekly, the allegedly sweatshirt, the No Theory is Just Vibe sweatshirt, it's all back in stock. We wanted to get it ready to go because the cooler weather is getting here. A lot of you have been messaging me about sizes that were not available. As of right now, knock on wood, everything is there. So go check it out at crimeweeklypod.com. And if you're a Patreon member, don't forget, you get a discount. So make sure you use your Patreon code so that you can get that discount as well. That's all I got. I really want to get into this episode, but wanted to make sure I put that out there for anybody who's waiting for that merch to come back in stock.

• 4:14Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay, so let's dive in. On October 11th, the day after Sonia arrived in Florida, Dwayne Hall took a video of her on his cellphone. Now, by this point, Sonia appears to be disheveled, emotional and subdued, and there were visible injuries on her body. Throughout the recording, Hall repeatedly questioned her about why she was there and whether she wanted what was happening to her, as though he was trying to establish on camera that Sonia was consenting to whatever came next. But even in that video, Sonia's answers are anything but reassuring. I will tell you that. And that distinction becomes incredibly

• 4:57Stephanie Harlowe?

  important when you look at what Sonia was doing outside of that video, because on that same day, while Hall was recording Sonia, seemingly confirming his version of events, Sonia was also desperately trying to communicate with someone she clearly trusted. So as you watch these clips, pay attention not only to what Sonia says, but to how she says it. Because when we compare the woman Hall was filming with the woman privately trying to reach someone on the outside, we do have to ask whether this was really a person calmly following through with a plan she had chosen, or whether by October 11th, Sonia Exelby had realized she was in far deeper than she'd ever intended, and she just simply didn't

• 5:39Stephanie Harlowe?

  know how to get out, right? So we will start with a short clip from the video that Dwayne Hall took of Sonia Exelby.

• 5:47Speaker 02

  I want you to tell me about why you're here.

• 5:50Speaker 03

  Because I've got an awful passion and I need to die.

• 5:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, but why are you such an awful person?

• 5:59Speaker 03

  I've crushed everyone who ever loves me. I've cheated on my partner. God, the amount of lies to everyone about this is overwhelming. Led on so many men because I didn't know how to just, well, it was more just that I didn't have the guts to say no because I knew they probably wouldn't like me. I don't know. People just always seemed overly nice. I was always an oddball.

• 6:34Stephanie Harlowe?

  So on its face, this first clip, I will admit, is not terrible. Sonia does look very disheveled, right? We know she's-

• 6:41Derrick Levasseur?

  She looks disheveled, some, maybe some light bruising or some swollenness to the face, to the face.

• 6:45Stephanie Harlowe?

  Visible bruising on her face and possibly, I would say, some on her chest and like collarbone. She's wearing the same dress she was seen getting picked up in the airport and the day before. It's kind of pulled down, you know, so maybe it's been through some things. But she appears to be talking pretty casually. She's eating. I know last episode I talked about how Dwayne had purchased food, but it didn't seem like it was for two people. Was he even feeding her?

• 7:09Derrick Levasseur?

  She's clearly eating something there, candy or something.

• 7:12Stephanie Harlowe?

  Or something, yeah. And she seems to be talking about herself in a very vulnerable way, which-

• 7:18Derrick Levasseur?

  Like disparaging.

• 7:19Stephanie Harlowe?

  Disparaging, but like, she's used to talking to Dwayne about these things, about being honest, at least about the way she views herself internally with Dwayne, which I feel like maybe she felt she couldn't do that with other people. Like, she's talking about herself in a way where it's like, I can finally be 100% honest about who I am and what I've done, at least in the way that she thinks about herself, which yes, is disparaging. And she clearly doesn't have a super positive self-image about herself. I did also notice that she only made eye contact with Dwayne once during this clip, and very briefly, very briefly.

• 7:53Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. I mean, we're not psychologists, but this is clearly someone who's, who's struggling mentally.

• 7:59Stephanie Harlowe?

  Mentally, yeah.

• 7:59Derrick Levasseur?

  And, and needed professional help, not, not Dwayne. The way she views herself, it sounds like someone who, you know, let's just be candid, hates herself for reasons she shouldn't. And I don't know if this is something that Dwayne wants to hear as a form of gratification for him, and he's just making her repeat something she's already told him, or if this is her clearing her conscience because she knows what's coming. Either way, I do feel that these feelings are probably something that she does internalize with herself before meeting Dwayne, and it's probably part of the reason she wants this to occur to her. But that just tells you that that train of thought is something that

• 8:43Derrick Levasseur?

  could have been treated by a professional, and maybe with the proper medication and the proper therapy, she would have looked back on these thoughts and said, wow, I remember that difficult time I was in, and look where I am now. But when she's in these particular groups, like motherless.com, these types of monsters, they want to exacerbate, and they want to magnify those feelings because they want to capitalize on them, which is why Dwayne's making her say them out loud.

• 9:09Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. So I think this is stuff she said to him before.

• 9:12Derrick Levasseur?

  Of course.

• 9:13Stephanie Harlowe?

  And clearly, a lot of negative-

• 9:15Derrick Levasseur?

  It sounds like she's repeating herself. Like, he's like, he's asked her for this before.

• 9:18Stephanie Harlowe?

  He knows the stuff they've talked about. It, clearly, a lot of negative self-talk on her behalf, clearly a lot of rumination about mistakes she's made, things she regrets, things she feels a lot of shame and guilt over. And once again, with a proper therapist who would have explained to her, like, yes, you feel bad about these things. That makes you not a bad person. The fact that you feel bad about them. Whereas someone like Dwayne is hearing her saying this and supporting the fact that she feels like a piece of shit. You are a piece of shit because you did this. You have, you have every reason to feel like a piece, which is not going to help her move away from the rumination and negative self-talk. It's going to make her lean into it, which is going to lead to her continuing

• 10:01Stephanie Harlowe?

  to feel like, you know, everyone she knows will be better off if she wasn't around.

• 10:04Derrick Levasseur?

  And you see what the focus of this conversation is? Sex, right? And that's probably coming from a place where it turns Dwayne on. Because it seems like this, the, the one particular topic here is how many people she's had sex with.

• 10:18Stephanie Harlowe?

  He wants her to feel degraded. He wants to degrade her.

• 10:20Derrick Levasseur?

  Right. And he's in, I hate to say it, but he's probably turned on by that particular topic. And so it's unfortunate, but yeah, everything else, your observations, I agree with it. It doesn't appear to be someone who's in distress or wants to leave. And she almost seems a little bit like- Annoyed, or I guess that's not the right word, but just kind of like.

• 10:40Stephanie Harlowe?

  Oh, like, like it's rote memorization.

• 10:42Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, like she's saying it because she knows he wants to hear it.

• 10:44Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 10:45Derrick Levasseur?

  She's kind of like, just like entertaining him. She almost, and maybe I'm wrong on this, doesn't appear, and I've never seen her facial expressions before, so there's no baseline, but almost like there's a little bit of a smirk to when she's saying it, like, I don't know how to describe that.

• 10:59Stephanie Harlowe?

  But here's where I think it's happening. I think that she said so herself. I've done this. People are nice to me, and I think they're being nice to me because they want to have sex with me, so I give them what they want. It wasn't even necessarily that I wanted to do it. It's just like, that's the way I thought I could have people like me. And I think this is what she's doing with Dwayne. He's filming her, and she thinks it's part of the fantasy. Her talking about this stuff and her saying she's a piece of shit and she deserves to die. I think she very much felt that she was gonna come there and they were gonna do this stuff in real life as opposed to online, but it was just going to be like a continuation of what they'd already done online.

• 11:42Stephanie Harlowe?

  With that fantasy of, yes, you're going to violently kill me and put me out of my misery, being the, the role-playing like nexus, but not where it was eventually going to go. But I think when their first interactions happened, and he was very violent and very rough with her, Sonia maybe realized this guy could be serious, so now she's pacifying him.

• 12:05Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, I agree. That, I, I'm with you. It sounds like she's pacifying him here. Like, he wants her to talk about it, and he's got his phone out in her face. So she's like, okay, I'll repeat it again. That's the, at least the observation, the vibe that I get from it.

• 12:21Stephanie Harlowe?

  He may have said to her, like, I want you to say it again. And she's like, we talked about it so much online, yeah, but never in person. So I wanna, I wanna have you do it. I wanna do it in person because you know what turns me on when you talk about this stuff, right? So let's play the next clip, and then we'll come back and talk about it.

• 12:36Speaker 02

  What's this on your face?

• 12:42Speaker 03

  You've beaten me.

• 12:44Speaker 02

  Is that what you wanted? Is that what you asked for?

• 12:51Speaker 03

  Yes, literally speaking.

• 12:56Stephanie Harlowe?

  So now we have what I think is a clear sign to me that Sonia is not comfortable, right? Now, there is no, there's no eye contact. There, there's long pauses. She's looking off into the distance. Although some may say, well, she's laughing. I don't think it's the same kind of casual. Yeah, it's a nervous sort of laughter. Like, what have I gotten myself into? And like I said, based off of what Sonia said in the first clip, I think, you know, she said she's led men on because she wanted them to like her. She didn't have the guts to say no because she was afraid that they wouldn't like her, which I can only interpret as her saying that she wasn't able to offer them sex, then she didn't think that she would have worth to them.

• 13:38Stephanie Harlowe?

  And so it sort of seems like maybe that in this situation, she's gotten into here, it's very similar. She'd been talking to Dwayne. They'd been going back and forth about what she wanted and what he would do to her. And she traveled to Florida in order to continue those online conversations in real life. But if Dwayne Hall had become a fixed part of Sonia's everyday life, if talking to him provided some sort of comfort or support, or once again, like I said, a place where she felt as if she could be completely honest about who she was and all the parts of herself that she felt were bad or dark. There may have been a dependency there, a feeling as if, you know, if I don't go to Florida and continue these hypothetical role-playing conversations in person, maybe Dwayne will feel like I have no worth, and he'll stop talking to me, and then I'll lose that support system,

• 14:23Stephanie Harlowe?

  that place where I feel safe to be myself with all of my parts visible, good, bad, and ugly. And that is very important to me. I hide who I am and what I've done from everybody in my life. I can't be honest with anybody because I feel like they'll hate me, they'll judge me, they'll know who I am, and I can't be seen like that. But this man has seen me like that, and he keeps talking to me, and he keeps offering me quote-unquote "support." And there may have been a place where Dwayne was like, all right, I'm done online. Let's meet in person. And Sonia maybe was like, ah, you know, not now. I can't get away. Like, everybody's watching me really closely. And he eventually said, find a way to make it happen, or what's the point in talking to you anymore? And so that may have been what brought her to Florida.

• 15:04Derrick Levasseur?

  I, I agree with that assessment. Again, we're speculating, but that's what we're doing here. And then as far as the video, what did you make of her, him saying, you can obviously see the swelling on her face, and you can see she's, like you said, not making eye contact. You can tell that whether she wanted this or not, it's not pleasant. It's painful, right? But what did you make of him saying, is this what you asked for? And her saying, yes.

• 15:27Stephanie Harlowe?

  Hypothetically.

• 15:29Derrick Levasseur?

  Literally speaking.

• 15:29Stephanie Harlowe?

  Literally, yes, like.

• 15:31Derrick Levasseur?

  So what's your interpretation of that?

• 15:33Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, so here's where, where I'm thinking, like, that is very, I'm glad you asked me about that because I think there may have been a part of Sonia that felt because she and Dwayne had been talking for so long, and because some of their conversations had maybe made it seem as if he cared about her as a person, as if he was like listening to her and having sympathy for her. Maybe she thought the, the more violent part of their conversations would remain online, and in person, he would not hurt her as badly because he cared about her. You know, when you're talking with someone and it's getting into like a fantasy place, and you're saying things to like keep the momentum going, you know, like when you're just talking and having fantasies.

• 16:12Stephanie Harlowe?

  But like, it's kind of understood that, that a lot of the talk will stay in that theoretical fantasy place. It's just fun and risque to talk about things sometimes, but these are not necessarily things you would actually want to do in real life. For, for example, you're talking with your boyfriend, and he's like, wouldn't it be cool if there was another woman here? And like, realistically, in your head, you're like, I'm gonna kill you. But you're like, yeah, this is a fantasy. We're having fun. And you're like, yeah, and then she would do this to me, and she would do that to you. And you're playing into it for the fantasy. But if outside of that fantasy moment, your boyfriend actually met another girl, brought her into your bedroom, and told you that it was happening, you probably wouldn't be happy about that. So I think that's what's going on here. Sonia may have thought that a lot of their online talk was just fantasy,

• 16:56Stephanie Harlowe?

  and she is saying like, like literally, yeah, that's what we've talked about.

• 17:01Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah.

• 17:01Stephanie Harlowe?

  But I didn't think that you were actually gonna bring another woman here to have a threesome. Like, I thought we were just having fun and talking shit, but now you've actually beaten me. And I guess technically, that's what I asked for, but I guess I didn't think that you would actually follow through on it. That's what I think's happening.

• 17:19Derrick Levasseur?

  Okay, and I've just, I'll, I'll play the other side of the coin, just so we're covering all of our bases. Not necessarily that I believe this, but we also could be looking at basically a disclaimer video where Dwayne wanted to make sure he covered his tracks. And so in this video, what she's saying is literally what she's saying, where she asked him to do this to her, and this is kind of his way of being like, you asked me to do this, right? And her saying, yes, literally speaking, that's what I asked you to do. That's not what I get from the, from the tone and just the mannerisms. But just to cover both bases here, we could be looking at, it doesn't make it any better, but we could be looking at a situation where she knows exactly what's going on, and although it's painful,

• 18:01Derrick Levasseur?

  and she may be having second thoughts at this point, she literally asked for this. And she's just, she's disclosing that for the sake of the video, which we don't know what was said before he hit record, right? Did he say, hey, just to cover my bases, I want you to put it out there that you wanted me to do this? And so I, I don't know.

• 18:19Stephanie Harlowe?

  Possibly. I, I think the fact that she, when he was like, you asked for this, right? She didn't look him straight in the eye and say, absolutely, yes, this is what I asked for, this is what I wanted. She's like, I mean, I guess.

• 18:29Derrick Levasseur?

  At minimum, she's in pain.

• 18:30Stephanie Harlowe?

  Literally, but I think she's thinking like, yeah, that's what we talked shit about, but I didn't, I thought we'd come here, just have some fun bondage, like, we would, you know, do, do some more shit talking and have like a fantasy. But then I, I wouldn't actually be like having the crap beat out of me during our first in-real-life sexual encounter. That, I did not expect that, yeah.

• 18:53Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, and that's why this video is important, because five different people could look at it. They're gonna come to different conclusions. So again, pause, let us know what you guys are thinking at this point.

• 19:02Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay, we have one final clip to play for you, but we are going to take a quick break that I think I need right now. And we will be right back.

• 19:14Stephanie Harlowe?

  This episode is brought to you by Helix. And I know this sounds dramatic, but upgrading my sleep has genuinely been one of the best things I've done for my daily energy and my mental status as well.

• 19:24Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, I think at this point, everyone knows that sleep affects everything, your mood, focus, patience, productivity. If your mattress is working against you, your whole day starts at a disadvantage.

• 19:34Stephanie Harlowe?

  Exactly. And before Helix, I was not having great sleep. Because of the mattress, I was doing a full nighttime Olympic event of tossing, turning, waking up hot, sweating, flipping around like I was trying to solve a crime scene in my sleep.

• 19:47Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, which is not restorative at all, right? I mean, if you, if you're trying to start off your day on the right foot, that's not what you want to be doing the night before.

• 19:55Stephanie Harlowe?

  You should not wake up feeling like you need to recover from sleeping. And I think that's a very poignant statement because that is how I feel sometimes. But switching to the Helix mattress really changed the game for me. I could actually get comfortable, stay comfortable and wake up feeling like I'd slept instead of just had a toxic relationship with my bed for eight hours.

• 20:16Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. And Helix has over 20 mattress models to choose from, so it's not a one size fits all type of thing here. You can find something based on how you sleep, what kind of support you need, or whether you want the cooling upgrades for those hot nights. And I will tell you, I have them, strongly recommend.

• 20:32Stephanie Harlowe?

  We both have the Helix Midnight Luxe mattress, right?

• 20:35Derrick Levasseur?

  Yep.

• 20:35Stephanie Harlowe?

  It feels just as good as it did the first day I got it, which is important because a lot of mattresses, like they kind of degrade over time. You can take the quiz, which is going to tell you everything you need to know about what kind of mattress that you should be matched up with. So do you sleep on your side? Do you sleep on your back? Do you sleep hot? Do you sleep cold? Do you sleep with a partner? Not only is Helix making the process easy with the quiz, but they're making the whole process easy. So your mattress is going to ship for free right to your door in a box. The setup is simple and you get a 120 night sleep trial, a limited lifetime warranty, and the happy with Helix guarantee.

• 21:07Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, and that's huge. And it really matters because buying a mattress is a big decision. You actually need to sleep on it at home, not awkwardly laid down on something in a store for 45 minutes while you have someone standing over you with a clipboard. That's not going to give you what you need. That's not the information you're looking for.

• 21:24Stephanie Harlowe?

  Helix is also the most awarded mattress brand, tested and reviewed by experts like Forbes and Wired. So there's a reason that so many people, including us, love them.

• 21:32Derrick Levasseur?

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• 21:36Stephanie Harlowe?

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• 21:46Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, don't ignore the mattress red flags, people.

• 21:48Stephanie Harlowe?

  We cover enough red flags on here. We cover enough. So go to helixsleep.com/crimeweekly for 30% off. Once again, that's helixsleep.com/crimeweekly for 30% off. And make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you. helixsleep.com/crimeweekly.

• 22:09Stephanie Harlowe?

  This is the, the final clip we're going to play for you and then we'll come back and talk about it.

• 22:14Speaker 02

  And this is how you wanted to die, right?

• 22:18Speaker 02

  You wanted to be beaten and made to suffer because you're such a piece of...

• 22:24Speaker 02

  Say it.

• 22:26Speaker 03

  I needed to be beaten and suffer because I'm such a piece of...

• 22:34Speaker 02

  Good, good. You're not being forced to say that, right?

• 22:40Speaker 02

  So are you getting what you wanted?

• 22:45Speaker 02

  Are you pleased? Are you happy?

• 22:49Speaker 02

  And how did you want to die? What, what was your chosen way to die? Kind of describe that. What have you been consenting to here today?

• 23:00Speaker 03

  You mean the way that you're talking about killing me?

• 23:07Speaker 02

  You consent, you consent to what kind of treatment beforehand that you feel like you deserved?

• 23:15Speaker 03

  To be stabbed.

• 23:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's what you want, but the last day or two was your treatment. Ben, what did you ask for leading up to that?

• 23:29Speaker 03

  I can't remember. We've talked about so many different ways.

• 23:34Speaker 02

  Now, are you being coerced? Are you being forced into this?

• 23:42Stephanie Harlowe?

  So I mean, at this point, I think it's pretty obvious in my position, Sonya did not want to, from my, from my point of view, Sonya did not want to be here. She didn't want to be in this position. He was calling the shots. And I just want to say, these fricking men who are into this like BDSM stuff and like, oh, I'm going to be in control of this woman and I'm going to be really assertive and like, say it, say it. And then she's like saying it and he's like, good, good. Like this whole, oh, I'm going to tell you, you're a good girl thing and you're going to crawl to me on your hands and knees. And it's like, you're an old man.

• 24:19Stephanie Harlowe?

  You're an old, ineffectual man who really like, nobody should be deferring to or being submissive to. You know, you don't have the, the ability to do this with anybody in your real life because everybody knows who you are. You used to deliver pizzas. Now you run some failing roadside assistance company. You're fricking going bankrupt. Nobody respects you. And, and you have to like, create this persona online and find somebody who's mentally ill and struggling to manipulate because no one in your real life would actually consider you as somebody who's like dominant or to be respected or listened to. And it's just gross. It's gross.

• 25:01Stephanie Harlowe?

  Like you're some weird old man with some weird thinning ponytail. Like shut up. You're not, you're not a, an alpha as, as he would consider himself to be or want to be seen.

• 25:12Derrick Levasseur?

  Crying while he eats his Wendy's.

• 25:13Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, exactly, exactly.

• 25:15Derrick Levasseur?

  Little did he know, right? He'd be crying over a Junior Bacon Cheeseburger in a couple of months.

• 25:21Stephanie Harlowe?

  Adding some more salt to the fries.

• 25:23Derrick Levasseur?

  Couple of things going on in this video. On one hand, it does appear that Dwayne is trying to make a CYA, cover your ass video where he's trying to say, you wanted this, you asked for this, this is all stuff that you agreed to, right? On the other hand, it looks like a woman who's having second thoughts, who definitely had these conversations in the past with Dwayne. They've had conversations about it this weekend that this video is taking place.

• 25:50Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, he says this, the last few days have been your treatment leading up to what you asked for.

• 25:54Derrick Levasseur?

  And he even says, we've talked about so much, like what, what thing are you referring to? It's unfortunate, but also fortunate that there are things that are cut out of this, I think for the protection of, of Sonya where her responses to some of it are not there. But yeah, it looks like a woman who's in deep thought and probably in a lot of pain based on the way she's been treated the last couple of days. And it does appear that there's things running through her mind that she's not saying out loud. I wish we could have a little bit of insight into that. But yeah, it's, it's a tough video to watch. It's a tough video to watch.

• 26:28Stephanie Harlowe?

  The police report had said there was long pauses. So I think a lot of what's been cut out is probably those extended pauses. But to me, a lot...

• 26:36Derrick Levasseur?

  So you don't think she responded?

• 26:37Stephanie Harlowe?

  She may have, and that they, there may be things cut out too. But I think some of it is extended pauses, which to me, there is something to be said in a long pause.

• 26:47Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, I would love to have seen those. Yeah, I would like it to be in its entirety.

• 26:51Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 26:51Derrick Levasseur?

  But, but yeah, that's the way I'm looking at it. It's someone who is playing something or going over her life or maybe her decisions and the position she's in right there. And it's, it seems like she's confused for sure. There's a lot of emotions going on there. And again, she's, she's in pain. The guy's been beating her up for two days. So you can see that in her face that she's, she's, she's exhausted. She's probably in pain and, and she has this guy getting a disclaimer video. And so, and, and we, I think we can all admit that like, at this moment, Sonya's not in a good place mentally. So this is a guy getting a disclaimer video from a woman who's not in the right mind to even make a disclaimer video.

• 27:33Derrick Levasseur?

  He's, he's taking advantage of a situation where this woman is really in a bad place and he's exploiting that. That's what we're looking at here. So we can get all the disclaimer videos he wants. He's getting it from a person who's not in a mental state where she could be giving consent to any of this, even if it was legal.

• 27:50Stephanie Harlowe?

  I don't even know if he wanted it as a disclaimer video because number one, he deleted it within seconds after taking it.

• 27:56Derrick Levasseur?

  He probably realized it wasn't a disclaimer video was evidence.

• 27:58Stephanie Harlowe?

  But wouldn't you realize that like, it wouldn't take you a few seconds after filming it to realize that it wasn't a disclaimer video? And additionally, when he's talking to the police, he's, they were like, yeah, if that's what she wanted, then like it changes things. And he literally said, like, how would that change things? So he knows the law enough to know that that would not qualify as a disclaimer video, that he still broke the law.

• 28:19Derrick Levasseur?

  It seems to me like it's less role playing. And when he's using words like consent, do I, you, you gave me your consent to do this? That sounds to me like a litigious thing. I could be wrong. Only Dwayne knows.

• 28:31Stephanie Harlowe?

  These are also words that are used like in the BDSM kind of community and stuff. So I don't know. I think he told her that he wanted it as a disclaimer video. And maybe it was like a scare tactic for her to be like, oh, wow, he's really going to do this, or a way to show her like, I'm really going to do this because I'm getting you on the camera saying these things, right? So that that could have been more of like a, I want her to know I'm serious and scare her.

• 28:58Derrick Levasseur?

  Dwayne ain't gonna tell us the truth that the interrogation footage gave us any insight into his level of credibility. Uh, we know we're never going to find out what actually happened between those videos.

• 29:09Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, then the same day, October 11th, and I don't know what time she was sending these messages, but we'll talk about that in a second. But that same day that this video was taken, Sonya attempted to send messages to what has been referred to as a trusted friend. And she tried to send these messages on Discord. And whether it was because she didn't have a United States cell phone plan, or because the service in the area wasn't reliable, because Dwayne said that there's like blockers blocking the signal, there obviously wasn't. But yes, the signal in that area was very, very poor because it was kind of in the middle of nowhere. But we don't know why, but the messages, they did not go through. So those messages that Sonya sent are as follows, quote, "I'm sorry,

• 29:54Stephanie Harlowe?

  he keeps taking my phone. He doesn't trust me with it. He made it clear there was no way out unless I shoot him. I was questioning it last night. I can't kill anyone. He's in the shower, but I'm locked in and there's no signal in the middle of nowhere. I thought he'd do it quick and not give my mind time to stew and realize this is the last thing I'll ever say to anyone if I don't take his offer of shooting him. He showed me about how to use it and where to aim it. I'm so scared. I'm so broken and in so much pain. All I can do is lay here and doing what he wants makes him respect me enough not to do the things I really hate. Everything, but some are. I'm sorry. I don't even know

• 30:37Stephanie Harlowe?

  what I'm saying and I'm trying to be quick. My time's up." End quote. Okay. So according to police records, Sonya also told her friend that Dwayne had made her record three disclaimer videos and write a letter to her family because he thought it was funny. The messages also indicated that he wouldn't let her leave and always had a gun on him. So this is where his wife's gun, which is his favorite gun, right? This is where it comes in. Apparently, if we believe all of this, he didn't keep it in the car. He didn't just want to have it with him so he could randomly clean it. He had it on him when he was in the Airbnb. And this is a way that he made Sonya kind of fall in

• 31:21Stephanie Harlowe?

  line. And apparently, he told her, no, you've already said this is what you want. This is what I'm going to do. And the only way you can get out of this is by taking this gun here and shooting me. And Sonya saying, I, I can't do that.

• 31:37Derrick Levasseur?

  Now, we have to take her at her word, right? These are her final words that we know of. It sounds kind of like we were spot on with the assessment of that last video where you have someone who originally went there to die. But she thought it would be quick and painless and it would, whatever suffering she was going through would be over. However, he's essentially torturing her for days on end. And she, it's giving her time to pause and think about her life and this being her final moments. And now she's having second thoughts. She doesn't want to go through with it. And in fact, if she had the ability to kill someone else, she probably would have. She was leaning toward it, but she just couldn't bring herself to do it.

• 32:19Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, I don't think he would have let her do that. I think that.

• 32:21Derrick Levasseur?

  No, no, no, it's just part of the game. It's just part of the game. But I mean, everything that she's saying aligns with her, her, her physical behavior, right? Like she's looking off in the distance. He's asking her questions, but she's not really answering because her mind is somewhere else. She's having second thoughts and now she's realizing, based on his words, once she showed up, there was no going back. There was no out. There was no safe word. The only option was to quote unquote, kill him, which he would have, like you said, never allowed her to do. So.

• 32:54Stephanie Harlowe?

  He probably would have used it to justify killing her, by the way. Like, he probably wanted her to do that. So he could say, oh, it was self-defense.

• 33:02Derrick Levasseur?

  Right. This whole torture thing was not part of what she wanted. If you're going to believe this, she wanted to die. This extra stuff, all this stuff that he's doing is not what she was looking for. He's beating her up. He's assaulting her. And he's almost refusing to do what she had originally asked because he's getting gratification out of all this. Keeping her captive, torturing her like this. And these are her final words right to her friend that she's having second thoughts. And candidly, based on these, these words and her, her mannerisms in that video, if the op, option was available, she probably would have backed out and said, you know what? I'm going to go home. But as she said in this text, which she didn't know anybody else was going to see it, he didn't give

• 33:44Derrick Levasseur?

  her that option. It was already too late. This was kind of like a slow death where the minute she showed up, her fate was sealed.

• 33:52Stephanie Harlowe?

  Now, I have questions, though.

• 33:54Derrick Levasseur?

  Do you? Don't we all?

• 33:55Stephanie Harlowe?

  Some of this, it doesn't really add up. So I would, and it's maybe because we don't know everything, but I would like to know, did she try and call 911? Because we know that even without a cell phone plan, 911 calls are, they're, they're, they are basically programmed to go through, even if you don't have cell phone service. The only thing that would stop that is absolutely zero cell phone service. That would, that would maybe be an issue. But even if she had a UK phone, but not a US plan, did she try to call 911? And she says, he doesn't let me have my phone that often because he doesn't trust me with it. But now she's saying he's in the shower and she has her phone. And we also know that Dwayne.

• 34:33Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, she could have left. She could have called 911.

• 34:35Stephanie Harlowe?

  Like, was she locked in? He doesn't have a gun on her if he's in the shower at this moment. Is she too beat up at this point? Because I don't know if she's sending these messages after the cell phone video is taken. It kind of looks like the cell phone video was taken during the day because you see some daylight coming in. So maybe he continued beating her up and she physically could not move. But if he's in the shower and you have your phone, why can't you get up and walk out of the Airbnb if you're physically able to? Is she tied up? Is that what the rope was for? She didn't say she was tied up. Did she try to call 911? Did she try to do some other methods of, of getting into communication with somebody who could help her? He's in the shower. Gun is not on you at that point.

• 35:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  We know there was no apparatus of locking her into the Airbnb. Was she tied up? I don't know. I would have to know more of that.

• 35:26Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, she wasn't tied up because she, she's texting.

• 35:28Stephanie Harlowe?

  I, so that made me think, were these messages from Sonya? So I know this sounds crazy, but is Dwayne Hall, who has had her phone in the past, because we, we know that he's probably used her phone, or at least had access to some of the things on her phone? Was he taking her phone and sending these in order to almost validate? Because like you said, is he taking this video as like a, you know, cover your ass? She gives me permission to do it? Is he sending these messages so that if anything were to happen, he could say, well, see, she said this is what she wanted. She just thought I was going to do it quicker?

• 36:07Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. It's an interesting theory. My gut tells me it was sent by her. Probably for you as well. Because this, this text doesn't make him look good at all. It actually makes it look like it's not voluntary. And he was someone who did, even though he's a moron, he did try to take some steps to avoid anybody else knowing that they had met in Florida. So I doubt that he would have sent this message for some gratification purposes. I think it was sent by her. I think there's no binary answer here. We're all just speculating. I don't know anything more than Stephanie or anybody else. But I think at this point, this is a woman who's torn. We know that it's true. She wanted to die. She tried, made multiple attempts to do this with other people. That, that's not up for

• 36:49Derrick Levasseur?

  debate. The question is, at some point during the interaction with Dwayne, did she change her mind? So maybe this is in the middle of that.

• 36:57Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yes.

• 36:58Derrick Levasseur?

  Maybe this is in the middle of that where the tide is starting to turn, where she's going from, I wanted it to be done, but I want it to be done quick and painless. Now I'm in the stage where I still think I want it to be done, but now it's taken on this whole other thing. And I don't even know if I should leave. I'm having second thoughts clearly, but I'm still not at the point where I feel I have to flee the area. So I think that's what we're looking at here is a transition from, I want to die, to maybe I don't, to what should I do now? I don't know what to do. How do I get out of this?

• 37:31Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, she's saying, I, I thought he would do it quick and not give my mind time to stew. Like, not give me time to think about whether or not this is actually what I want.

• 37:38Derrick Levasseur?

  I think what we're seeing here in this text messages is a, a visual depiction of a change of thought, a change of heart.

• 37:45Stephanie Harlowe?

  And I think it also kind of, uh, sort of supports what I was saying earlier, where there's a point where Sonya fell into old patterns of people pleasing. All I can do is lay here and doing what he wants makes him respect me enough to not do the things I really hate. So I'm trying to just appease him at this point. I'm trying to see if there's another way out of this. If I can just do what he wants, that, that maybe at the end of this all, I'll, I'll have an option to leave.

• 38:14Derrick Levasseur?

  To leave. Yeah. Yeah.

• 38:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  So, yeah, this is.

• 38:18Derrick Levasseur?

  I wish we knew more, but there is a lot to dissect there.

• 38:21Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. This is upsetting, for sure.

• 38:23Derrick Levasseur?

  Yep. But we have the visual representation with the video and now the actual words.

• 38:28Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 38:28Derrick Levasseur?

  And it all aligns with someone at minimum, who doesn't feel the same way they felt when they showed up.

• 38:36Stephanie Harlowe?

  And also going through a mental battle of, you know, how people always say, like, oh, I, I was going to take my own life. And then they like jump off a bridge or something. And they say the second.

• 38:47Derrick Levasseur?

  They jump off, they have regret.

• 38:48Stephanie Harlowe?

  The bridge. I'm like, no, this isn't what I want. Right? So I think we're seeing somebody who's faced with their own life potentially ending. And they're saying, maybe this isn't what, what I actually want, right?

• 38:59Derrick Levasseur?

  This isn't what I thought it was going to be like.

• 39:01Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. So, uh, let's take a quick break and then we'll be right back because I want to talk about the other people in Dwayne Hall's life that I wonder how much involvement they had in what he was doing. How much they knew about what was going on here with him and, and what his activities were. So we'll be right back after this quick break.

• 39:26Stephanie Harlowe?

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• 39:36Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, because a lot of skincare promises big results, but it's really only working on the surface.

• 39:41Stephanie Harlowe?

  And listen, I love a nice moisturizer as much as anyone, but at a certain point, I want more than pretty packaging and a vague promise that I'm going to wake up looking like I slept for 12 hours in a mountain spring that is actually secretly the fountain of youth.

• 39:54Derrick Levasseur?

  Mmm, that's oddly specific, Stephanie.

• 39:56Stephanie Harlowe?

  Listen, I've fallen for this stuff before, okay? I've fallen for it. OneSkin is skincare that's backed by science and it's become an easy addition to my daily routine. And they have all these studies that you can actually read and see why it works, not just be told that it's gonna work.

• 40:11Derrick Levasseur?

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• 40:25Stephanie Harlowe?

  And that's the part I find so interesting. OneSkin isn't about chasing some overnight quick fix. It's about helping your skin stay healthier over time, which feels much more realistic and honestly, much more useful.

• 40:36Derrick Levasseur?

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• 40:51Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, the OS1 peptide targets senescent cells, which is what's driving the aging in your skin to making it look aged. They actually call them zombie cells, so it's super interesting. I'm gonna give a very strong shout out to OneSkin's eye cream.

• 41:05Derrick Levasseur?

  Yep, we all know you love it.

• 41:07Stephanie Harlowe?

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• 41:26Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, so it's skincare, but with a focus on long-term skin health, not just temporary surface-level results.

• 41:31Stephanie Harlowe?

  It feels simple enough to actually use consistently, but the science behind it is what makes it stands out. Inconsistency is everything, because my skin does not respond well to chaos and neither do I, honestly.

• 41:41Derrick Levasseur?

  That tracks.

• 41:42Stephanie Harlowe?

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• 42:26Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay, we are back. So at the end of July of 2026, Dwayne Hall's partner Ginger Stein sat down for an interview with The Daily Telegraph. Now, the article says, quote, "Stein appears unable to understand the gravity or the cruelty of her husband's alleged crimes." Speaking near her home in the small town of Marion Oaks, Florida, she insists that he is not the monster everybody keeps making him out to be. She says, quote, "It's not like he went hunting for somebody. She hunted him, not hunted maliciously, but she sought him out," end quote. The interview went on for more than an hour, and during that time, Ginger, in a quiet and sometimes indignant voice,

• 43:08Stephanie Harlowe?

  defended her husband's actions, saying they were driven out of compassion, as well as the stresses of her medical treatment. She talked about how she had to have a double lung transplant nine weeks before Sonia was killed. And she said that the pain of her condition had driven her to ask Dwayne Hall to help her end her life if she could not have the operation in time. Quote, "Stein believes that her request may have encouraged her husband to frame his alleged killing of Sonia as a mercy rather than a premeditated murder." And then Ginger Stein goes on to say, quote, "I think he cared about her, I really do. He is a very caring guy. I honestly believe he saw her in my position and he snapped," end quote.

• 43:51Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay, so this is Ginger saying, Dwayne didn't haunt Sonia, she hunted him, right? She hunted him and he just did what she wanted. And I think he actually really cared about her. I think that Dwayne cared about Sonia and it's only because like I was in a bad position medically and I told Dwayne, hey, if I can't get this lung transplant, you know, can you just help me end my life? Because I don't want to live like this. So I really think that when he looked at Sonia in his caring, good-person way, he saw me in her. And so he snapped, he just didn't want to see someone suffer anymore. This is what Ginger is saying in this interview.

• 44:34Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, she's an idiot, and she's probably a little brainwashed as well. But yeah, she's an idiot to try and depict Dwayne as a victim somehow that was preyed on by Sonia. It's just moronic. I'm not gonna sit here and dissect it.

• 44:48Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

• 44:49Derrick Levasseur?

  I mean, it's that simple. It sounds like I'm just using like really basic words, but that's all it is.

• 44:54Stephanie Harlowe?

  And you could say brainwashed and you could say maybe she was afraid of him, et cetera, et cetera. I don't believe that she was afraid of him. And by this time, he's behind bars. So you can say how you really feel, you know? Now, it goes on, because before Ginger gave this interview to The Daily Telegraph, she went on the Chamber of Shadows podcast in December of 2025 and she talked to them.

• 45:19Speaker 04

  To your knowledge, do you believe that Sonia was Dwayne's only victim?

• 45:26Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 45:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, so you think that this was her asking and receiving?

• 45:33Speaker 05

  Yeah, but I think she changed, I think she might have, she probably changed her mind about halfway through. But then she could have also told him not to allow her to change her mind.

• 45:43Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, she could have.

• 45:47Speaker 05

  I mean, I told him, that's one of the things that I said when I was thinking about it too, so. That's, I don't think, I don't think a lot of people would understand.

• 45:58Speaker 04

  No, no, they don't. A majority of people don't experience something like this on a normal basis. A lot of people, you know, they don't have these, whether that be medical complications like you or any mental health complications to this extent.

• 46:21Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think, no, it is very complex and it's not something that an average person would have to think about or try to think about like that.

• 46:34Stephanie Harlowe?

  So at this point, it feels like Ginger's his lawyer and she's trying to like give him like an out, right? Like, I do think, I do admit that she probably changed her mind. You know, Ginger even says that, because Ginger has probably seen the evidence against Dwayne by this time. I do think she probably changed her mind, but oh, wait, but wait, there's a loophole. Because she could have told him not to let her change her mind, because that's what I said to him when we were having this conversation. So it's like she's building a defense for him. You can't just say, what your husband did was terrible and he shouldn't have done it and she probably changed her mind. And that's why he's where he is now, but you have to give some alibi, like, yeah, we had this talk and I told him, don't let me change my mind.

• 47:18Stephanie Harlowe?

  She could have told him that, you know, she could have said that. And I think it's atrocious, honestly, that that's happening.

• 47:24Derrick Levasseur?

  I couldn't agree more. There's not, I understand why we're talking about it. We have to, right? This is someone who was very close to Dwayne, but it just shows you the people that he was around and the people that he associated with, and it actually is not surprising at all.

• 47:38Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, then, the article in The Daily Telegraph, it goes on to say, quote, "In a startling admission, Stein said she was more hurt by her husband's infidelity than by his alleged involvement in Sonia's death," end quote.

• 47:51Derrick Levasseur?

  So she's as selfish as he is, got it, got it.

• 47:54Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, also, also, yes, but it's a bit different than what Ginger told The Chamber of Shadows podcast during her interview with them in December of 2025, before this Daily Telegraph interview.

• 48:07Speaker 04

  Do you believe that there could have potentially been other women that he spoke with online? Whether that be through Discord to any?

• 48:17Speaker 05

  Probably, because there was a point when I was so sick and... Uh, been barely able to get out of bed. I told him he was allowed to talk to other girls. As long as, as long as he, as long as he took, as long as he didn't lie to me or didn't see him physically. Or at least told me if he was gonna see him physically. You, I didn't mind.

• 48:41Speaker 04

  Uh, would you, is that, would you consider that an

• 48:46Speaker 04

  open relationship or no? I don't, I don't.

• 48:51Speaker 05

  Maybe emotionally.

• 48:52Speaker 04

  Open?

• 48:53Speaker 05

  Like, not, not physically. He wasn't allowed to creep around or anything without telling me, because that's, that's dangerous. I mean, well, obvious, yeah, obviously this was dangerous too.

• 49:03Speaker 04

  Well, yeah. The case aside, just alone with you learning that he was talking to her. Cause I know you mentioned, you just wanted him to tell you. Did you kind of feel betrayed in a way that you, it, it had been so many years and you had not known about her?

• 49:24Speaker 05

  A little bit. Like, if, uh, if he was, if he was just talking with her and wasn't making any, any plans to get together or anything, then I wouldn't have minded. Cause he had, he has, there's, I'm even friends with a couple of his girlfriends on, on like Facebook and whatnot, but

• 49:44Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 49:46Speaker 05

  There was never, as far as I knew, there was never any talk of getting physically together and anything like that. It was just online chit chat.

• 49:57Stephanie Harlowe?

  So, yeah, um, Ginger says that she's very sick at some points and so she kind of told Dwayne, like, it's okay to have other relationships with women, but only as long as it stays online and nothing physical. But if it does get physical, then I need to be told about it. And she's asked, do you consider that an open relationship? Which, ye- yes, that is. And she's like, no, no, no. It's just, you know, if I can't meet his needs, then like somebody else should be, but also these are only online. And she's like, and I'm friends with a couple of his girlfriends on Facebook. So there's a whole kind of thing here where Dwayne is, I guess, allowed under certain circumstances to be going out and having, you know, conversations with other women.

• 50:40Stephanie Harlowe?

  But then there's all this stuff that goes along with it. Like, yes, but you can't have it go into real life. And if it, but if it does, I need to know about it. But Ginger doesn't consider it an open relationship and she sort of acts like she didn't care about it, even though in that Daily Telegraph interview, she's like, I'm more, um, upset that he betrayed me and like had a relationship with someone else than I am that he killed this woman. Right? That's what, and I think that's the truth. And I think her trying to once again make it seem like, yeah, she knew about this. This wasn't, he wasn't doing anything wrong. He did this all the time. There's nothing weird about this. It's not like he's a bad man or a bad husband betraying his wife and his family.

• 51:19Stephanie Harlowe?

  He's just a caring, caring guy who, you know, had a relationship with another woman, which was common. That was fine. Ginger gave her permission. And he tried to help that woman. So this is more of like propaganda for Dwayne Hall. And I

• 51:33Derrick Levasseur?

  Poor Dwayne.

• 51:34Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. And I think, I think it sets up something because I think Ginger does not like Sonia. Okay? But she's gonna make it seem like she does. All right?

• 51:45Derrick Levasseur?

  This is the perfect person for Dwayne. Right? Malable, impressionable, manipulated easily. She has completely bought into the notion that Dwayne is like the alpha, as you kind of said earlier, and she's kind of his subordinate who is there, like in her mind, they're partners, but in reality, the, the actual dynamic of the relationship is nothing like that whatsoever. He's allowed to talk to other women on Facebook as long as he doesn't actually sleep with them. And I'm sure there was multiple indications that he was, but she chose to ignore it. She's just a very, she's the perfect person for Dwayne.

• 52:21Stephanie Harlowe?

  But I think like where you're saying she's trying to make it seem as if, you know, he was kind of running the show. Like, I think she kind of tries to make it seem like she's running the show.

• 52:31Derrick Levasseur?

  He has her convinced of that, doesn't he?

• 52:32Stephanie Harlowe?

  Or she wants us to be convinced of that.

• 52:35Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. She's just basically a bag of soup, man. She's not, she's not that, she's not that bright.

• 52:40Stephanie Harlowe?

  Like, I don't want you to think that I was manipulated here.

• 52:44Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. Yeah, no, we, we know, we know, we know.

• 52:47Stephanie Harlowe?

  She's very, very intent on making sure that everything that happened, she has an answer for it, or she knew about it. Or like the reason she didn't know about it was not because he's a bad person and not because she's stupid. And just looked the other way. Everything here was, was very much under her control. Right? So that's interesting to me. And so the article then says Ginger was asked why the public should not view Dwayne Hall as a monster. And Ginger said, quote, because he takes care of everybody. He took care of me for at least eight years while my health was declining. He was an amazing dad. End quote.

• 53:25Speaker 04

  You were never at any point afraid for your own safety or the safety of your child?

• 53:36Speaker 05

  No.

• 53:37Speaker 04

  Never.

• 53:37Speaker 05

  Never. Not even a little bit. He, he made, he made me and, he made me and my child feel so, so utterly safe. Like, he was, he was so protective. He got so mad at some of the doctors when I was in pain. He was, he was insistent that I get my meds and, and the first time, the first time, one of the very few times I have ever heard about him crying was when I was out of it in the hospital. I guess, I wish I was allowed to have his phone because he's got pictures of me on there. Basically all about comatose and he's, and the nurses told me that he was, he was bawling and he was scared and

• 54:20Speaker 05

  we thought that I was, they thought that I wasn't gonna make it. He, he was super protective.

• 54:25Derrick Levasseur?

  And you know what? There's probably truth to that because we did see some of it in the interview, in the interrogation where he was a little upset about what he had gone through with, with Ginger. I do ask myself if it, was it because he felt bad for her or was it for self-serving reasons? Like, she did a lot of the things that he needed to be done and she was kind of a, an accomplice in a lot of ways. She, she clearly knew more than she's letting on. I mean, when you talk about Dwayne and what he said about, you know, if anybody comes looking, nobody but Ginger.

• 54:57Stephanie Harlowe?

  Anybody but Ginger, yeah.

• 54:58Derrick Levasseur?

  And so at least it gives the impression that she was in on what was occurring to some extent. So was he upset because he was potentially losing someone who he had cultivated this type of relationship with, where she would do whatever he asked? Or was there some, a thing about her where he did develop feelings for her where, you know, this was the one person he cared about? I don't know, but there is some indication of him being concerned about her health. What the reason is, we, we may never know.

• 55:25Stephanie Harlowe?

  I don't think he was concerned about her health at all. Here's what I think. He needed people like this who have these very dark sides. They need to have a public perception of being a certain way. So crying in front of the nurses, right? Crying in front of the police. Allowing Ginger to think like, I am taking care of you. You are the most important thing in the world. In reality, I believe he felt she was a burden to him. Right? Like, there's a woman in my life and women in my life are supposed to serve a certain purpose. They are sexual objects to me. And she can't even be a sexual object right now. Like, what's the fun? In abusing and tying a woman up who's sick and dying. There's no fun in that. But he had to keep this outward

• 56:11Stephanie Harlowe?

  family man persona, kind of like, um, who was the serial killer we talked about? He went to church and, you know, he's, he's got his hidey holes.

• 56:19Derrick Levasseur?

  Dennis Rader, BTK?

• 56:20Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yes. So he, he needs to be seen as a family man so he can do the other things. And nobody's gonna look at him in a, in a weird way. Ultimately, I don't think he was concerned about her at all. Outside of the fact of he needed to make sure that other people, because if he's a weird guy that's not upset that his wife is like on the verge of death, then people are gonna be like, this guy's, what's wrong with him? He's not crying. He's not a mess. And I think it's also a weird flex where she's like, I wish I had his phone because he's got pictures of me on there comatose. You know, like, what the hell, what does that support? He took pictures of you in your most vulnerable position while you're like dying in a hospital bed? That's weird. You will not convince me, Ginger, that the same man who

• 57:02Stephanie Harlowe?

  without any reservations or without any mercy, beat Sonia Exelby before stabbing her to death and made her say on video that she was a piece of sh- and that she wanted to die, that that same person can have any scrap of mercy or care for anybody. But what Ginger's dealing with here is he's dangerous to everyone else, maybe, but never me. I'm the chosen one. I'm not like other girls. Yes, maybe he would do this to some random girl he met online who he doesn't care about, but he cares about me. I'm different to him. So she wants to be seen as different. And she wants to be seen as apart from that, but we're also supposed to see her as somebody who

• 57:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  was under his spell as well and not aware of what was going on, even though she's doing her very most to make sure that that's not what we think of her. So in the podcast interview, Ginger goes on to talk about how she's been attacked online for starting a GoFundMe for herself. And she was told that she shouldn't have done that because of what her husband, Dwayne Hall, had done to Sonia. And this is where she continues the whole perception of, listen, like, I, I am, I'm not under his spell. Like, what do you think? That I just do everything he says?

• 58:17Speaker 05

  I'm getting, like, I posted a GoFundMe on my Facebook and I am getting people on there telling me that I shouldn't be, I shouldn't be asking for help. Because, because my husband did some, something atrocious.

• 58:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 58:35Speaker 05

  But that has nothing, it has nothing to do with me. I did not know. I wish, I wish he had introduced me to her.

• 58:42Speaker 04

  Yeah. Something we should clarify is you were not aware of any of this. You had no position in this aside from being blindsided.

• 58:52Speaker 05

  Yeah. I mean, she was literally just nicely home from a double lung transplant.

• 58:59Speaker 04

  I think people forget sometimes, you know, just because you're married, you're still your own individual person.

• 59:05Speaker 05

  That's what I said too. What, are we back in the 1600s? The man, the man takes over the woman's?

• 59:10Speaker 04

  Right.

• 59:11Speaker 05

  Come on.

• 59:12Speaker 04

  Yeah. Right. Yes, you-

• 59:16Speaker 04

  Are not responsible for his actions. So I really hate that you have been getting backlash for that. I do, I don't agree with that.

• 59:25Stephanie Harlowe?

  And I hope it's not lost on anybody, the way she said, just because my husband did something atrocious. Like, she's like atrocious, like it wasn't actually that atrocious, you know? And we've already seen that she's defending it and saying that he did it out of mercy and kindness, not because he's a bad person. Remember, Ginger said this isn't the 1600s. A man doesn't take over the woman. And while I agree, from what we know, Ginger is not responsible for the actions of her husband. Okay, that goes without saying. She's not responsible for the actions of Dwayne Hall. We do also have her, just seven months later, sitting down with a media outlet and framing Dwayne's actions as something justifiable or merciful, right? He's not a monster, he's a caring person, he's just trying to help. Let's ignore the fact that he beat Sonia before he killed her, that he recorded her and made her

• 1:00:08Stephanie Harlowe?

  say she was a piece of shit on camera, and then he deleted that video, even though he said he filmed it so everyone could see Sonia wasn't under duress, and that this is what she wanted. If Dwayne filmed that video to protect himself, why would he immediately delete it? Could it be because the video of Sonia, all bruised and defeated and completely under his control, was part of how he got off, right? And these do not sound like the actions of a caring and merciful man who was just trying to help. It sounds like the actions of someone who knew he was going to kill Sonia and wanted to torture her for days on end before it. And Ginger said something else in that clip. She said she wished that Dwayne had introduced Sonia to her, right? So now she's like, yeah, I wish, you know? The man that my husband was having a sexual relationship and talking about doing the

• 1:00:51Stephanie Harlowe?

  most disgusting and vile things to this woman for a year and a half online while, you know, I didn't know about it and I feel betrayed by it. I wish that we could have been friends, you know?

• 1:01:04Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, and by the way, I want to go back to what you said at the beginning here, where you talked about her saying the word atrocious. I agree, it sounded sarcastic to me, almost like allegedly, that's kind of the way you would say it, like, he did this. I don't think she's saying if the acts are true, that they're not heinous, but I think she's still questioning whether or not he even did any of this at all, which just tells you where she is mentally on all of this.

• 1:01:27Stephanie Harlowe?

  I agree, I can imagine her saying atrocious, like, and eye rolling, like, oh, it was so atrocious, yeah. I'm glad you picked up on that, too, because-

• 1:01:35Derrick Levasseur?

  No, she's oblivious, there's no doubt about it, and I'm not going to give her an out and say she was just completely manipi- She's a grown woman, and most people know right from wrong. She has to know this is wrong.

• 1:01:45Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, so you can't, like, say, don't be mad at me for what my husband did, while you're also actively defending what he did and trying to minimize it and trying to make it sound like he only did it because he's such a good person. We can be mad at you for that. We're not saying that you're responsible for his actions, we're saying it's kind of tacky to start a GoFundMe for yourself, and not because you were responsible for what he did, but because you're minimizing and defending it, and you don't seem to care about Sonia at all in this. And this is this next clip, where Ginger talks a little bit more about Sonia.

• 1:02:20Speaker 06

  You said you wish that he could have introduced Sonia to you, or Sonia and you. What would you have said to Sonia?

• 1:02:30Speaker 05

  I would have liked to have tried to be her friend and maybe keep her spirits up and try to be hopeful. Like, I mean, if miracles happen, miracle, I'm living proof miracles happen. So she, she could have, we could have, she could have been happy again.

• 1:02:52Speaker 04

  Do you feel like that could have been a beneficial relationship with you experiencing what you have in her with her, I want to be respectful about this, but, um, mental health complications, again, I want to be respectful about that. Do you think that you guys could have found this sense of solace within each other and helped each other?

• 1:03:14Speaker 05

  I, yes, I do, I do. That would have been, yeah, poor, that poor girl. I can't, I can't stop thinking about her, like, she's, I, she has a mom, she has a mom, you guys.

• 1:03:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:03:29Speaker 06

  Yeah, absolutely, my deepest condolences to Sonia's family and love to all of them. Sorry, I wish I could have, yeah.

• 1:03:38Stephanie Harlowe?

  I just find this to be so disingenuous, and I'm going to talk a little bit more about it after this next break.

• 1:03:52Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay, we're back. Like I said, I find this to be completely disingenuous, like, yeah, that would have been a great relationship, me and Sonia, we could have been sister wives, you know? Like, we could have both gone past our issues and been best friends. This was a woman your husband was living out these lurid sexual fantasies with while you were on the verge of death at some points. And in July of 2026, you're going to state that his infidelity was more hurtful to you than his involvement in Sonia's murder, but you really would have liked to have met Sonia and been friends with her and helped her. That poor girl, she has a mom, you guys, she's a mom, you guys, you know? Like, I wish I could have done something for her, I would, stop it, stop it. This is absolutely ridiculous. And Ginger has, has never outright condemned what Dwayne did.

• 1:04:37Stephanie Harlowe?

  She made excuses for it. She stated with her full chest that, you know, I think he cared about Sonia, I really do, he's a very caring guy. She has not condemned his actions, she's been upfront that Dwayne sleeping with Sonia is more offensive to her than Sonia's murder, and when the hosts of this podcast try very hard to label her as another victim of Dwayne Hall, Ginger is unwilling and almost disgusted to label herself that way.

• 1:05:02Speaker 06

  You're not his accomplice, you are also his victim, unfortunately.

• 1:05:09Speaker 05

  I hate that word.

• 1:05:10Speaker 06

  I know, I know, it's, I know, it's sort of all encompassing and it, and it doesn't have any of the uniqueness, but that is, that, that is what people need to see, that you absolutely were not acting in concert with him in any way. You had so many of your own demons to deal with physically, that-

• 1:05:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 1:05:33Speaker 06

  There was no way that you could have been.

• 1:05:35Derrick Levasseur?

  She hates that word, Stephanie, victim.

• 1:05:38Stephanie Harlowe?

  She hates it.

• 1:05:39Derrick Levasseur?

  She doesn't want to be a victim. I don't think she's saying it because it, for her, she's saying it because it paints Dwayne as a bad guy.

• 1:05:45Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, I think she's saying it because she's like, no, don't you understand? I let him talk to, I was friends with his girlfriends on Facebook, I'm not a victim.

• 1:05:52Derrick Levasseur?

  Right.

• 1:05:53Stephanie Harlowe?

  And then they're like making, they're, they're like, yeah, you were not in any way acting in concert, and she doesn't say anything. She's not like, you're right, I wasn't, they're like, you know, it's, there's none of the uniqueness in that word. What do you mean uniqueness? You mean autonomy? You mean the autonomy that Ginger is trying to convince us she had in this relationship?

• 1:06:12Derrick Levasseur?

  What's crazy is they're trying to give her an out, they're trying to separate her from Dwayne, and she's pushing back, going-

• 1:06:18Stephanie Harlowe?

  She doesn't want to take it.

• 1:06:19Derrick Levasseur?

  I don't want to be separated from him, I don't think he's a bad guy.

• 1:06:22Stephanie Harlowe?

  He's a good person.

• 1:06:23Derrick Levasseur?

  Right.

• 1:06:23Stephanie Harlowe?

  He cared about her.

• 1:06:25Derrick Levasseur?

  Right.

• 1:06:25Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:25Derrick Levasseur?

  Right, and that's where they're like, hey, we just want to give you a disclaimer here, she's separate, she's a victim as well, and she's like, I hate that, I hate that word, I hate that, I don't want to be considered that, because it's basically putting a wedge between her and Dwayne, and she's still, in her mind, she's still connected to him, she's, they're still in unison. So I think she's still in the disbelief that he is a bad guy here, and that this is something that's misunderstood, he was just trying to help a, a person who was struggling, and she kind of reaffirms that by saying, I wish I could have spoke to her because she would have tried to help her, so she would have-

• 1:06:58Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, just like Dwayne helped her.

• 1:06:59Derrick Levasseur?

  Just like, just like Dwayne.

• 1:07:01Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:02Derrick Levasseur?

  That's what she's getting at here, this was a troubled person who needed assistance, and Dwayne was trying to give that to her.

• 1:07:09Stephanie Harlowe?

  So, yeah, after these, these podcast hosts, they're like, yeah, you didn't do anything wrong and you're completely separate, and I know you don't, you know, victim, yeah, that's a weird word, they should, they go on and on, and then there's a long pause, and I think they were expecting her to be like, yes, absolutely, I confirm what you're saying, I, I am an unwilling victim, maybe, I didn't know, but, yes, I think they're expecting her to say something like, maybe in my husband's head, he thought what he was doing was right, but obviously, unequivocally, I can tell you that what he did was not right, even if that's how he framed it, to make it justifiable, I can say it's not right. She doesn't say any of that, right? They, then they're, they're just like, okay, well, thanks for coming on the podcast.

• 1:07:54Stephanie Harlowe?

  She never says, I was a victim of this man, even if it was just that I was being lied to and made to believe he was this caring husband, when in reality, he's out there having relationships with women online, and he had one of those women fly across the world to visit him so he could have sex with her and murder her, which obviously makes him a bad person and a bad husband. She doesn't say that, even though she hates the word victim, she has to admit that she does need people to understand that in a way she was a victim, she says nothing, okay? And then, we have the phone call that Dwayne made to Ginger while he was in jail. So aside from letting Ginger know that she should watch out for a package that their mutual friend in Ohio was going to be sending her, Dwayne told Ginger that he didn't think he was ever coming home.

• 1:08:37Stephanie Harlowe?

  He apologized, he told her he knew it was a lot to deal with, and he said, you know, initially, we needed the money, but we didn't need it this bad. And Ginger replied, quote, "I had a bad feeling about that, I should have told you you weren't allowed to go," end quote.

• 1:08:55Stephanie Harlowe?

  And then Dwayne told Ginger that if she had told him that, he would have listened. And quote, "You know how worried I am about losing you because when all of this shit about the case starts coming out, it's going to look so fucking bad. I was trying to help somebody and humans have a tendency to screw you over. And that is basically what happened. I am not the monster that they are painting me out to be, but we all know what the end result was. It was just compassion and love. I tried to give Sonia what she wanted. I tried to do it in a sense that was compassionate and not being a freaking monster and just picking a victim and seducing them to do whatever and take advantage of them in any way, shape or form. In simple terms, there is no defense. I don't believe I did anything wrong. As a teenager, I had to watch many members of my family suffer. A person should

• 1:09:40Stephanie Harlowe?

  have the right to choose to die if they have physical or mental problems and they should be able to choose who they want to help them. That shouldn't be against the law." End quote. We have a lot to unpack here because shouldn't be against the law, Dwayne. That could be your opinion, but you also know that it is, number one.

• 1:09:56Derrick Levasseur?

  It is. Yeah. Sorry, Dwayne. Sorry to tell you, but killing another person is still against the law.

• 1:10:01Stephanie Harlowe?

  Number two, we have Ginger saying, because once again, even I think Dwayne has given her some idea that he's the dominant alpha to everyone else, but she's the only one who can turn him into a kitten in her hand. Well, if I had known, you know, I should have told you not to go. And he's like, I would have listened to you. You're the only woman I respect enough to listen to. Right? It almost seems like she knows the part he plays with other women. And because that's no longer their dynamic, now she's the, the, the one behind the screen, right? The, the person behind the great and powerful Oz who can direct him, right? The woman is the neck and she can turn the man, uh, the head of

• 1:10:42Stephanie Harlowe?

  the, the man any way she wants it to. He has given her maybe some idea that she has some control, that he's gonna go do what he wants, but she can at any time tell him. That's not acceptable. But what does she mean when she said, "I worried about that and I should have told you not to go." Does that sound like maybe she knew about what, what he was going to do? Because-

• 1:11:05Derrick Levasseur?

  I think so. I mean, that's the way I'm interpreting it because what would she be worried about? So from, this is, these are her words, not ours. From what she's telling us in this podcast, he wasn't out there having sex with other women. That's, that's, that's the impression she was under. So he clearly didn't tell her, "Hey, I'm going to meet up with this woman and I'm gonna have sex with her, but don't worry, there's no emotional connection. It's just sex."

• 1:11:29Stephanie Harlowe?

  But because she's gonna pay me money. She's gonna pay me money because we, we need money, right?

• 1:11:33Derrick Levasseur?

  Right. She's gonna pay me money. So clearly, we, from what she's told us, he wasn't allowed to have sex with other women, so he wouldn't be going to do that. But then she says, "I was worried about that." Well, what would she be worried about?

• 1:11:44Stephanie Harlowe?

  No, I had a bad feeling about that. I should have told you that you weren't allowed to go.

• 1:11:49Derrick Levasseur?

  Right. So what, what would be the bad feeling about? What would you be concerned could happen? That he would get caught? That he would be implicated in a crime?

• 1:11:57Stephanie Harlowe?

  That it wouldn't go the way he wanted it to go? Yeah.

• 1:12:00Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, what do you think this woman from overseas is coming to do? And, and if we're to believe what she's saying, and you have to take it with a grain of salt, he framed it to her as a woman who was in need of quote unquote, "help," wanted to die. So at minimum, she knew that he was going to assist with a suicide.

• 1:12:18Stephanie Harlowe?

  Kind of feel like that's what she's suggesting. Yeah.

• 1:12:20Derrick Levasseur?

  Right, right. At minimum, she knew that there was some potential legal ramifications to this.

• 1:12:25Stephanie Harlowe?

  There was an exchange of money for something. Now-

• 1:12:28Derrick Levasseur?

  Right.

• 1:12:29Stephanie Harlowe?

  She could say, "Oh, well, because he said he was helping this guy Harold with the cars and he was gonna get paid for it." But that's not the way the conversation's going.

• 1:12:38Derrick Levasseur?

  No, it sounds like she's in on the whole that she, he was going to meet up with another woman. So again, if it wasn't for sex, what was it for? What were you concerned about?

• 1:12:46Stephanie Harlowe?

  Mm-hmm. Exactly. So that's where I'm, I'm starting to say, like, is Ginger not as much of a, an unknowing, ignorant victim? The, the victim she doesn't want to be painted as so badly. Did she know more? And then we have Dwayne saying something that concerns me. He said, "I tried to do it in a sense that was compassionate and not being a freaking monster and just picking a victim and seducing them to do whatever and take advantage of them in any way, shape or form." So he's going from like a place where it's like somebody came to me and needed help and I, I tried to do it in the most compassionate way possible, which isn't true. You beat the crap out of her and then stabbed her four times. Number one. Number two, the fact that he says after, like, "I tried to do it in a compassionate way. I wasn't just picking a victim like a monster and seducing them and taking advantage

• 1:13:30Stephanie Harlowe?

  of them." It kind of seems like, yes, I already wanted to pick a victim and then, and then hurt them and take advantage of them. But I tried to do it in a way where I was also helping somebody who already wanted that. So even though that's what I wanted to do, I wasn't just picking some random person. I was picking somebody who already wanted to die. It served both of our needs.

• 1:13:51Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, no, I'm with you. I think he, in his mind, somehow justified this as like a loophole, right? He'd had these ideations, these fantasies of torturing and killing someone. He goes on this website and he figures, "Hey, if I can find someone who actually wants to die, there we go. That's how I get to do it."

• 1:14:09Stephanie Harlowe?

  I'm not a monster. Yeah.

• 1:14:10Derrick Levasseur?

  "I get to do what I want to do and I get to help them. It's a win-win." So, yeah, no, he had these, he had these fantasies well before he, he met Sonia. And that's where we go back to the whole, I guess, the theory that this might not have been his first victim. This might have been something that he had done in the past. But no, with or without Sonia, he was going to kill someone. He just thought, "Hey, maybe I'm smarter than everybody else, every other serial killer out there. I can do this and it's okay, as long as the victim is willing, as long as the victim is okay with it." And unfortunately for him, that's just not how this, this world works.

• 1:14:46Stephanie Harlowe?

  And he tries to pose it as like, you know, "I tried to do something good and yet people are gonna fuck you over." It's like, Sonia's dead, but she's fucking me over here again, right? And then he tells Ginger that he was, quote, "not in the right state of mind." And he says, quote, "I shouldn't have been making any major decisions. I did something out of love and compassion for another human being and this is the thanks he gets. He will never do it again." End quote. So this is weird because I don't know why Dwayne changed from talking about I to talking about him at, at the same time as talking about not being in the right state of mind because that was his quoting, like I quoted him. He's like, "I did this, I did this, and he will never do it again. This

• 1:15:29Stephanie Harlowe?

  is the thanks he gets." It was weird. And I was like, is this Dwayne trying to build an early case that he has multiple personalities and one of his personalities did this? I mean, obviously no personality that exists inside of Dwayne Hall will ever do this again because he'll be behind bars where he can't hurt anyone, hopefully. But yeah, I, I didn't know what that was. It was like, he did this. He was like, "I wasn't in the right state of mind. I tried to help someone and this is the thanks he gets. He will never do this again." So that was weird. He, he's, he's also once again posing himself as a victim, like, "I tried to help and now look at where this ended me up. Of course. Every time I try to do something with love and compassion and kindness because I'm a good person, you

• 1:16:10Stephanie Harlowe?

  know that Ginger, I'm a good person, every time, it bites me." So there's another weird layer of this absolutely weird dynamic that Dwayne and Ginger have between them. So we know they met when Ginger was 16 and Dwayne was 26. And she says on the podcast that the whole age thing has never bothered her because mentally she's older than Dwayne is anyways. So where you're saying, maybe Ginger's not that bright, Ginger wants us to think, no, she's very intelligent. I mean, she, it's okay for her to be with somebody.

• 1:16:42Derrick Levasseur?

  That's a stretch.

• 1:16:42Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, it's very okay for her to be with somebody who's 10 years older than her because inside she's always just been mentally, um, more evolved than Dwayne anyways. And, and you know, age ain't nothing but a number.

• 1:16:53Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, she won't take the bait that she's a victim here, which-

• 1:16:55Stephanie Harlowe?

  Even when he's 26 and she's 16, no, age is nothing but a number. He's not taking advantage of her.

• 1:17:00Derrick Levasseur?

  I know that you cringe when we give any type of, uh, out or excuse, but there is something to be said that there is potentially some grooming going on here, which could contribute to her rationalization of this relationship. But I always go back to just basic common sense, which is like, hey, killing other people is wrong. No matter what context behind it, it's wrong. There's right and wrong, and this is a very clearly distinguishable action. What he is doing, regardless of the context behind it, is not okay. And regardless of whether she was groomed or not, she should know that and she should have stepped in

• 1:17:42Derrick Levasseur?

  or there should have been visible evidence of her saying, "Don't do this. This is not okay." And there wasn't. She was more concerned about him getting caught. At least that's how it sounds.

• 1:17:51Stephanie Harlowe?

  Also, depending on what date, as Ginger and Dwayne have been together for 20-plus years on and off, I guess. And we also have the idea that Ginger was okay with Dwayne having relationships with other women as long as Ginger knew about them and she was even friends with a few of his girlfriends on Facebook. And then we also heard Ginger tell the police that she shared a home with her husband, Dwayne, her mother, her son, and her, in her words, "baby daddy, Jefferson Evans." This is a lot to unpack because we also heard Ginger say that she doesn't consider her relationship to be open. It was just like, "Yeah, talk to women online while I'm deathly ill because I can't meet your needs, but if it ever goes past being on the internet, then you have to tell me about it," which makes it seem like she'd be okay, like, if she knew about it. But let's try to see if

• 1:18:36Stephanie Harlowe?

  we can figure this out by heading to Dwayne Hall's Facebook page. First of all, Dwayne Hall is openly and blatantly racist. Uh, it's, it's very evident. I don't need to, to go into why I think that. I think anybody would, would understand that. And I think his description of the fictitious Harold already kind of illustrated that to us, but his Facebook is a case study in it. Uh, he also loves reposting villain songs, which is a song in a show or a movie that lets the bad guy share their plans, their dark past or twisted worldview, and it's supposed to help the audience understand the villain. He likes sharing videos of women who appear to be very young, like teens or early twenties, and then say something suggestive like, "Oh my," with lots of whys. And he posted a

• 1:19:19Stephanie Harlowe?

  parody song called "I Can't Bone" and he wrote "How I Feel at the College Campus." The song is about how somebody wants to have sex but can't do it. And he's saying, "This is how I feel at the college campus." But it was his business Instagram where I found some interesting tidbits. In September of 2024, Dwayne was trying really hard to get a date. He posted a cute little selfie of himself with the caption, "Want to go out on a coffee date?" And then two days later, a picture of a sky with the caption, "Serious? No one wants to go out on a date?" And that same day, another picture of a sky with the caption, "Really? Nobody in the Ocala-Gainesville area interested in going on a date?" And the next day, he posted a picture of a moon with the caption, "Let's go on a nature date

• 1:20:04Stephanie Harlowe?

  with the added benefit of yummy coffee." End quote.

• 1:20:08Speaker 02

  It seems like no matter what I do, everything's always stacked against me. I've got-

• 1:20:14Speaker 02

  Just a ridiculous amount of money coming out this month for everything. And we haven't even gotten to taxes yet. That's next month, probably. So it's like, I'm struggling really hard. I'm struggling financially and emotionally. And all I really want is one person that means a lot to me. That's not my wife, because she means the world to me. But she's sick and can't do the things that I need her to do. Still out here, still getting it done. Still looking for that. Someone that wants to go out on a date. Maybe a nature date, maybe coffee. Come on, let's have some fun. What's life if you don't take a chance?

• 1:20:54Derrick Levasseur?

  There's nothing funny about this, but I really want to go out on a date. You know, I want that special person, not my wife. Cause she's special, but she's sick and can't do some certain, certain things.

• 1:21:05Stephanie Harlowe?

  She's, she's sick and can't do things for me. Yeah.

• 1:21:08Derrick Levasseur?

  Basically, I mean, he's not even like reading between the lines. He's basically saying like, I love my wife, but she can't do the sexual things with me. And I need someone as a side piece.

• 1:21:16Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, which, once again, this is on his business Instagram page.

• 1:21:21Derrick Levasseur?

  That's crazy. The lack of self-awareness is insane.

• 1:21:25Stephanie Harlowe?

  This is on his business Instagram page.

• 1:21:28Derrick Levasseur?

  Come on, come on, just take a chance.

• 1:21:30Stephanie Harlowe?

  So in, in one, but yeah, in one place.

• 1:21:32Derrick Levasseur?

  I don't look creepy at all.

• 1:21:33Stephanie Harlowe?

  In one place, he's like, I love my wife, but she's sick and can't do things that I need her to do. So I, I love my wife. I'm a good family man, but listen, a man has needs. So I'm gonna, you know, go on my business Instagram page and try to solicit a woman to go on a date with me. And I have to believe that in a way Ginger is correct. Like she knew he was out there trolling for women.

• 1:21:53Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, she's obviously, she, she has access to this page as well.

• 1:21:56Stephanie Harlowe?

  He's not trying to hide it.

• 1:21:57Derrick Levasseur?

  He's not hiding it. That to me is suggestive of grooming, where she has been conditioned to believe this type of relationship is okay. I'll give her that.

• 1:22:06Stephanie Harlowe?

  I guess.

• 1:22:07Derrick Levasseur?

  I'll give her that. Again, big age difference there. Met when they were young. He has probably programmed this into her that, hey, listen, I'm the man. You're the woman. There are certain needs that you need to meet. And if you can't, then I should be allowed to go elsewhere to find those things that you're, you're not, you're not fulfilling.

• 1:22:25Stephanie Harlowe?

  But remember, she said, no, it was just online. If it was ever in person, then I'd have a problem with it if I didn't know about it. But he's saying.

• 1:22:32Derrick Levasseur?

  I think she might be lying a little bit, because he's clearly saying, yeah, let's meet up in person.

• 1:22:36Stephanie Harlowe?

  Let's meet up.

• 1:22:36Derrick Levasseur?

  I mean, she, I think she, for this podcast, was trying to like minimize what she was allowing him to do.

• 1:22:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  Put boundaries in place.

• 1:22:44Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I have respect for myself.

• 1:22:46Stephanie Harlowe?

  I have respect for myself and he does what I say.

• 1:22:49Derrick Levasseur?

  Right, but there's a video contradicting that. That's his public, like you said, public Facebook page. People can see that. She can see that. He's even shouting out his wife in the video. It's almost like, this is our relationship and we're all okay with it.

• 1:23:03Stephanie Harlowe?

  I'm doing it publicly because she's given me permission.

• 1:23:06Derrick Levasseur?

  I got, I got the, I got the blessing. And so I think for the pod, as we, we should with everything coming out of Ginger's mouth, you take it with a grain of salt. It's more than likely her trying to downplay how much he was taking advantage of her, which also doesn't look great for her. Cause it shows that she has an understanding of right from wrong. And if she's truly not concerned about what he's doing, she would just say, yeah, I allow him to go out and meet other women. So what? That's our relationship. She's trying to minimize what he was allowed to do. I think because she knows how bad it makes her look.

• 1:23:34Stephanie Harlowe?

  But it would also almost be like, he didn't have to come up with that whole story about Harold and this and that to give to her. He would have just said, I'm going out on a date. I'll be back in a few days. We, you know about this. You know, I do this. You've given me permission to do this. But according to Ginger, there was this whole alibi put in place where he had to go and work on cars. Or did he tell her exactly what he was doing? And that whole Harold thing was just a story that he told to the police to try and, you know, get away with something that he knew he was kind of between a rock and a hard place. Is that the story he gave Ginger? Because that's what she claims. Oh, I thought he was going to work on some cars for the weekend. But also why, if you had this open relationship where it was just about honesty, would he have to hide that from you?

• 1:24:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  If that's what he was doing and you clearly knew he was public about going on dates with other women? Okay, so. And then we have Ginger's baby daddy, Jefferson Evans, who also happens to be from the same area of Ohio as Ginger, Dwayne and Rick Snyder. So Jefferson is 35 years old, younger than Ginger. Uh, so we have maybe a repeat of a kind of dynamic here. Dwayne goes with Ginger, who's younger than him. Ginger's now with Jefferson Evans, who's younger than her. And apparently Jefferson Evans is the father of Ginger's son. Now, I have no evidence of this, but I've talked to people local and word on the street. I've talked to people local.

• 1:25:00Stephanie Harlowe?

  I have gone, I've gone undercover and gone deep. I've talked to people local in the Marion County area. Word on the street is that Dwayne was unable to have children. So he gave Ginger permission to become impregnated by another man. And then that man lived with them. Now that's a fact, right? Jefferson had the same address as Dwayne and Ginger. So he lived with them. The whole, was Dwayne not able to have kids? And, or at least at that point, he was unable to have kids. Maybe he had a vasectomy or something, because we know he had kids before, because he had to pay child support, which he didn't do. Was he unable at that point to have kids? So he was like, I know you want to be a mom. Go find some young buck to get you pregnant. And then he can live with us, like one big happy family. Okay? That's word on the street.

• 1:25:45Stephanie Harlowe?

  Now, Jefferson and Dwayne have some things in common. They both like villains. They both like anime. They both evidently like Ginger and they both seem to have some fixation on death and ancient symbology. Uh, so Dwayne Hall was a self-reported sadist when he met Sonia Exelby. Someone, a sadist is someone who gets pleasure, satisfaction or gratification from causing another person pain, humiliation, fear or suffering. Once again, somebody who has no prob, your screen name was alpha sadist. You have no problem causing pain to other people and you actually get pleasure out of it. And you've admitted that. And now we're supposed to think that you beat this woman violently, had sex with her and murdered her because you're a good person. Both of these things cannot be true at once, Dwayne.

• 1:26:29Stephanie Harlowe?

  So on his Facebook, Dwayne Hall appears to have been fascinated with Anubis, the ancient Egyptian god of death and the afterlife. Uh, Anubis is shown as having the body of a man and the head of a jackal. He watched over cemeteries and protected the dead from scavengers. And he led the souls through the underworld and weighed their hearts against a feather of truth during judgment. Now, Dwayne's interest in Anubis is not casual. It's not just like one or two things here. He was obsessed. Uh, it's one of the strongest reoccurring themes on his social media. He's wearing an Anubis shirt. He's putting pictures of Anubis next to his own picture. He's sharing multiple Anubis graphics to the point where it seems Anubis was a part of the way Dwayne identified himself.

• 1:27:11Stephanie Harlowe?

  So when we examine Dwayne Hall's eventual relationship with Sonia Exelby, in which death, suicide, sadism and killing became central. The fact that he had already spent years, and I mean years, publicly associating himself with a deity intimately connected with death and transition into the afterlife. Is, I believe unquestionably relevant context. Once again, Anubis, not the god of death, helped souls transition into the underworld. Like, did Dwayne Hall see himself as doing something that was like part of his powers that he had from being in this Anubis mindset? Because this, once again, is not proven.

• 1:27:53Stephanie Harlowe?

  And I think it's going to come out during court, but a lot of media outlets have said, it seemed Dwayne was kind of like in some sort of group where Anubis would be their, their god that they worshiped, right? And, and in the same kind of context, like Anubis has gifted these people who follow him, the ability to have certain powers above other humans.

• 1:28:15Derrick Levasseur?

  You really cover, you don't leave any stone unturned, huh?

• 1:28:18Stephanie Harlowe?

  I went back.

• 1:28:19Derrick Levasseur?

  You went, you went deep.

• 1:28:20Stephanie Harlowe?

  I went deep and I went deeper, which we will talk about after this break.

• 1:28:33Stephanie Harlowe?

  So Dwayne Hall also presented himself online as an eclectic pagan and witch with a very strong fixation on individual power, darkness, dominance, masculinity and self-reliance. So I had to look this up because I'm not familiar, but an eclectic witch is apparently someone who doesn't follow one rigid religious system. Instead, they kind of pick beliefs, symbols and practices from different traditions, paganism, Wicca, Egyptian religion, tarot, lunar spirituality, folk magic, occultism, et cetera. And he, uh, had, had indications that he followed all of these things. So he's referred to himself as a pagan and a witch. And it seems he probably leaned towards comedic paganism.

• 1:29:15Stephanie Harlowe?

  So someone who practiced a modern religion that revives and rebuilds the spiritual beliefs and worldviews of ancient Egypt. The eclectic part mixed in other modern pagan or spiritual practices. He portrays the ideal man as being protective and loving, while simultaneously identifying strongly with sadism, dominance, darkness and villain imagery. This all isn't automatically contradictory, but together, I think what Dwayne is putting out there produces a message of, I am dangerous, but I decide who is worth my protection. From what I could tell from my research, this is a very common masculine fantasy archetype. The man is frightening to everybody else, but safe for one chosen woman.

• 1:30:00Stephanie Harlowe?

  And someone operating from that identity can see himself as a protector and dominant authority at the same time. Looking at the way Dwayne Hall described his relationship with Sonia as mentoring, that is important because he placed him himself above her, right? I know more. I guide you. I decide what you do and what you're capable of. So he is in a almost parental, kind of like superior position to Sonia. So what we have in Dwayne Hall is an eclectic pagan witch identity with strong comedic Anubis influence, combined with dark fantasy, BDSM dominance and sadism,

• 1:30:40Stephanie Harlowe?

  anti-conventional religious individualism, hyper masculine protector warrior imagery, and a persistent fascination with death, darkness, sacrifice and personal power. An enigma wrapped in an enigma, packed with contradictions. And apparently, according to some reporting, like I said, Dwayne Hall was very heavily into these kinds of things. And based on the, the knife, right? That he sent his friend with the inscription and it's silver. And he said, for the love of shadows, make, make sure you protect this for the love of shadows. It sounds like this may have been a shared interest.

• 1:31:17Derrick Levasseur?

  It makes sense.

• 1:31:18Stephanie Harlowe?

  Rich Snyder.

• 1:31:20Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. Rick shared a similar belief, potentially.

• 1:31:23Stephanie Harlowe?

  And also, I think Jefferson Evans may have.

• 1:31:26Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:27Stephanie Harlowe?

  Because there is so much here. So we have Jefferson Evans living with Dwayne and Ginger in Florida. But Jefferson Evans is also from the place where Dwayne and Ginger are both from, in Ohio. So it seems like they came to Florida together or separately, but the same thing was drawing them there. And that goes for Rick Snyder as well. Jefferson Evans, Ginger's son's father, had an email address. I found this. It was guarddog69JE. JE for Jefferson Evans. What does that remind you of? Isn't that kind of similar to the words that Dwayne and Rick used with each other? Don't leave without your guard badger?

• 1:32:07Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:07Stephanie Harlowe?

  And Jefferson Evans has an email that's guard dog, right? So is this a thing? Additionally, all of these people, Ginger, Dwayne, Rick Snyder, and Jefferson Evans, have had addresses in the same area of Ohio and then also Florida. Jefferson shared two addresses with Dwayne. Yes, the place in Ocala, Florida where they lived when all this happened. But also, they had the same address in Ohio. Dwayne and Rick Snyder are also both placed at an apartment in Canton, Ohio at the same time. So I guess I could say the assumption would be that they had lived together in Ohio at some point. Or maybe they just both had that address listed as their, their physical and legal address.

• 1:32:52Stephanie Harlowe?

  But yeah, they probably lived together at some time in an apartment in Ohio. And then also, Rick Snyder has addresses in Florida. He was living in Live Oak, Florida in 2006. He activated a landline in Live Oak in 2010. He was in Orlando in 2011, and he was first seen at an address in Winter Garden, Florida in August of 2011. And the last time he was seen at that address was February of 2026. So just a few months after everything with Sonia went down. So it kind of looks like maybe these people all kind of came from Ohio and then moved or migrated to Florida at some point. And yes, Rick Snyder would go back to Ohio and then back to Florida.

• 1:33:38Stephanie Harlowe?

  But what about Florida is drawing these people here? And how are they all ending up there together? And they all seem to be interested in similar things. Because there is some evidence to illustrate that maybe Sonia Exelby was not Dwayne Hall's first victim. And he may not have been working alone.

• 1:33:55Derrick Levasseur?

  No taxes, Florida. No, I don't know. I don't know what it is.

• 1:33:59Stephanie Harlowe?

  Florida, yeah.

• 1:34:00Derrick Levasseur?

  I don't know what it is about Florida, but there are some. I mean, it could be, the two might not be connected where these beliefs are not somehow correlated to the geographical location of Florida. It just might be that they like that area. Because listen, other than what their interests and fantasies are in their beliefs, their preference of where they want to live is where they want to live. Ohio is a lot different than Florida. And maybe, maybe Ginger and, and Dwayne just like the warmer weather. I don't know. Ohio's pretty cold.

• 1:34:27Stephanie Harlowe?

  Ginger, Dwayne, Jefferson, and Rick, Ohio is pretty cold. But there's also something I think Ohio has that Florida does not.

• 1:34:34Derrick Levasseur?

  What would that be?

• 1:34:36Stephanie Harlowe?

  Ohio's a lot more like populated, right? There's less just like random.

• 1:34:40Derrick Levasseur?

  Less desolate areas.

• 1:34:41Stephanie Harlowe?

  Open areas, yes. Whereas Florida, you have. A lot of swampland, a lot of, you know, alligator alley, which Dwayne Hall seemed to know so much about. The kind of very isolated areas where you can do things and there might not be anybody watching what you're doing.

• 1:34:56Derrick Levasseur?

  Cause. I don't know. Ohio, you could definitely get lost out there too, though.

• 1:34:59Stephanie Harlowe?

  There's Florida man memes for a reason, right?

• 1:35:02Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, I guess.

• 1:35:02Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay? A lot of weird stuff happens in Florida, and I love Florida. You guys know, okay? I'm not talking bad about Florida in any way, shape, or form. I go there every year. I love it. But we always hear about weird stuff happening in Florida. And there's less strict gun laws, right? Less strict laws about weapons and more personal freedom laws. We can admit that.

• 1:35:25Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, I mean, that's what I'm saying. It could be, the two might not be correlated. They could be, right? But it could also just be they dislike the, the environment of Florida better.

• 1:35:33Stephanie Harlowe?

  Which would maybe allow somebody to.

• 1:35:35Derrick Levasseur?

  It would. It'd be, it'd be an added bonus to living there.

• 1:35:38Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, like, oh, if I get pulled over with a gun when I'm on my way to do something, it's not going to be as big a deal as if that happens in Ohio, right? And we have Rick Snyder telling Dwayne, oh, you know that you don't get caught as much when we're doing dirty together, which makes it seem like a more recent thing. Whereas Dwayne and Ginger had been in Florida for quite some time by the time these messages are happening. So is Rick Snyder traveling to Florida? And him and Dwayne, when they're reuniting as friends in Florida, are up to things that they shouldn't be getting up to? That's the question that I have, all right? So there is evidence to illustrate that maybe Sonia was not Dwayne Hall's first victim. Maybe he wasn't working alone.

• 1:36:19Stephanie Harlowe?

  We have the claims that Sonia made to her sisters about a group of men working together in the United States to lure women to them and then violently murder them. We have Dwayne's close and trusting relationship with his friend, Rick Snyder, who he sent the murder weapon to and who he exchanged about, you know, messages about not doing dirty by himself. Cause when they do bad things together, they're less likely to get caught. I think it's also clear that Dwayne Hall never intended for Sonia's body to be found.

• 1:36:46Derrick Levasseur?

  Absolutely.

• 1:36:47Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, you're burying it, you're doing things to try to hide it. So it wasn't as if you were like, well, this just happened. And if someone finds out, like, I have the evidence that this is what she wanted. You didn't want her body to be found. So were there other people, other victims, whose bodies have not been found? Or they were found.

• 1:37:04Derrick Levasseur?

  Very easy to believe.

• 1:37:05Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:06Derrick Levasseur?

  That, I mean, cause if we, if she doesn't make that credit card purchase with his tow company, maybe we're, and I said it last episode, maybe we're not here talking about Dwayne.

• 1:37:15Stephanie Harlowe?

  Mm-hmm. And we know he needed money. He was also very public about that, right? There is a group of people local to the Marion County area, like I said, who have been looking into these same connections and similar cases of women going missing in the area. They were looking into this before the Dwayne Hall thing happened. So there are all, already kind of seems to be things going on where Marion County law enforcement is maybe finding women who went missing, and then they show up dead, and then the police are kind of writing it off as an overdose or not investigating and looking more into it. Because maybe these women had, you know, issues with substances or mental health issues. So the police are kind of like, hey, we know this person had a mental health issue, like,

• 1:37:58Stephanie Harlowe?

  and now they, they show up, you know, from an overdose or they show up dead, but we found them where their bodies have decomposed to a point where we don't really know how they died. But because we know they were already struggling with this issue or these issues, we're just going to kind of write it off as this is an accident or something they did to themselves, and we're not investigating thoroughly. And these people have investigated more thoroughly, and they're finding certain connections about similar women who have gone missing in those areas or kind of like outskirts of this area. Reddick being one of them. And then they've either not been found or they have been found, but there was no thorough investigation. And I don't want to publicly talk about these cases yet.

• 1:38:40Stephanie Harlowe?

  I want to look deeper into them, but there definitely does seem to be something worth a deeper look. And with Dwayne going to trial, I'm honestly interested to see if the prosecution has also investigated this possibility. Like, if the prosecution, and I have to believe that they have, because even you, as former law enforcement, you're looking at this and you're like, yeah, this is not a stretch to think. This wasn't the first time Dwayne did something like this.

• 1:39:02Derrick Levasseur?

  No, I think at this point, now that you have identified Dwayne, you have to reverse engineer his whereabouts, his, his, his travel throughout the, the years leading up to this incident, going as far back as you can, not only for unsolved murders in Florida, but also unsolved murders in Ohio and anywhere else that he may have resided.

• 1:39:21Stephanie Harlowe?

  I did that, I did that in Ohio. I looked up all his addresses because I even found his childhood home address where he lived with his parents, or at least his mother and a sibling for a while. And I kind of looked in the area and I was like, going through newspapers.com, even just finding, were there any sort of weird things that were happening? I couldn't find anything in Ohio, but Florida's a different story.

• 1:39:44Derrick Levasseur?

  I mean, and there may be cases that the person hasn't been found yet. They might just be considered missing. So I think the best way to do that is to reverse engineer from, from Dwayne. What I mean by that is you have to look at his interactions. So phone records, internet usage. You have to look and see who he had communicated with. We, whether it was on this most recent phone number, older phone numbers, all his accounts that he's had on Facebook and motherlist.com and any other websites to look at the communications between him and other people, whether that's men or women. And, and go through those conversations to see if there were any discussions with other people where there was a plan to meet up. And then after those plans were made, there's no more communication with those people.

• 1:40:29Derrick Levasseur?

  Because what you can do, identify those people and then check their current status. Are they missing? Were they found dead? Use Dwayne as your source. Because going out there and just trying to look at missing persons cases or murder, unsolved murders, and seeing if there's an MO that connects it to Dwayne, it's one option. But there's going to be a lot more cases than you can, than you can investigate. So I would start with Dwayne, cause he's the end result. He would be the suspect and then go backwards from there.

• 1:40:57Stephanie Harlowe?

  I also want to ask you a question because we know that the police went into Dwayne's house and they took, obviously, they're going to look through his electronics. And Ginger said on that podcast, like, they took a few computers. And I think that that's what they're doing. They're trying to retrace his web history. You know, are there more women like Sonia who he's been talking to, who he planned to do this with?

• 1:41:16Derrick Levasseur?

  Hmm.

• 1:41:16Stephanie Harlowe?

  But Ginger also said, oh, yeah, they took some clothes too. I think they accidentally took a pair of my pants. Would the police going in with a warrant accidentally take a pair of Ginger's pants? Or are they going to take exactly what they are there to take? Does it sound like something that would happen like, oh, we just accidentally took a pair of Ginger's pants?

• 1:41:36Derrick Levasseur?

  I don't want to sound like I'm covering all bases, but is it possible that a police officer took a pair of pants that he thought could belong to Dwayne, of course? Right? Mistakes happen all the time. I would think if they wanted DNA from her, they would have taken it directly. They would got a search warrant for her. And to, to assume that her DNA would be on the pants is an assumption that may not work out. So I don't know. Again, you're just asking me this now. I might feel different in five minutes after we're done recording. I don't know what the, what the purpose of taking the pants would be.

• 1:42:06Stephanie Harlowe?

  Cause remember, we have that video of Dwayne. That we believe is taken after Sonia is killed or, you know, in some process after they check out of the Airbnb.

• 1:42:18Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:18Stephanie Harlowe?

  And there's somebody in his car in the passenger seat that he's talking to, and he's in his hometown at that point. So could it be that they're pursuing a possible theory that maybe he picked up Ginger and so they want to see if her DNA is anywhere on Sonia's body or at the crime scene or at the Airbnb?

• 1:42:36Derrick Levasseur?

  Kind of like a Rex Herman.

• 1:42:37Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:38Derrick Levasseur?

  Cause I believe his wife's DNA was found on, on some of the victims.

• 1:42:41Stephanie Harlowe?

  Right.

• 1:42:42Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, I mean, it's possible. I just, there's better sources to get DNA from. I would take her toothbrush, you know, something like that. If you're gonna quote unquote accidentally take something, but then.

• 1:42:51Stephanie Harlowe?

  Or maybe it was a pair of pants that she was wearing that day and they want to test to see if Sonia's DNA is on those pants.

• 1:42:56Derrick Levasseur?

  That would be more reasonable, but there would be something in that search warrant that would dictate we're taking an item of clothing from Ginger. And so Ginger would have access to that search warrant as well. That's something they have to leave with her.

• 1:43:11Stephanie Harlowe?

  She would, right?

• 1:43:13Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:13Stephanie Harlowe?

  But now she's almost trying to set the narrative before trial. Like I think they accidentally took a pair of my pants so that when it comes out and it shows that on the warrant, it says they're there for a pair of Ginger's pants. She's like, yeah, I said that, like, I said they took a pair of my pants.

• 1:43:26Derrick Levasseur?

  It could be, it could be for that. I would, I would, if I were working it, I would take multiple items just in case. I would be taking everything, but maybe there is something about these pants that we don't know yet that maybe will be disclosed during discovery or during the trial where the Ginger's pants are somehow connected. Maybe there was a point where during their investigation, maybe Dwayne had taken a couple items of Ginger's clothing for Sonia in case she needed them while at the Airbnb. She was wearing a dress. Maybe he figured out, you know, I'm gonna bring some pants and a shirt in case she needs it to sleep. I don't know.

• 1:44:02Stephanie Harlowe?

  Sonia, Sonia brought some articles of clothing.

• 1:44:04Derrick Levasseur?

  But she was in that dress for almost the whole time.

• 1:44:06Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, I know.

• 1:44:07Derrick Levasseur?

  So overall, just a terrible case because it sounds like a woman who was really struggling and she was looking in the wrong places for help. And unfortunately, there was someone there who took advantage of her. They had their own fantasies and they were looking for people who were really down on their luck and maybe struggling mentally and someone that they could manipulate and take advantage of and convince them to fly overseas and meet up with them, knowing that once they landed in Florida, he had them. He had them and there was no going back. Here's my thoughts on what I think happened. And this is just, you know, speculative at best. Based on the limited information we do have,

• 1:44:51Derrick Levasseur?

  yes, Sonia was on motherlist.com. Yes, Dwayne was there looking, praying for on someone who he could take advantage of. Yes, she agreed to come over to the United States. Yes, she probably was strongly considering ending her own life and was looking for someone else to do it. And when she got there, just like she said in that text message that was unsent, by her being tortured at first and having time to contemplate her life and where she was currently, she was having second thoughts. And there's a real strong possibility at some point, she had disclosed these reservations to Dwayne.

• 1:45:27Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, cause she said the only way, he told me the only way out of it is I gotta shoot him.

• 1:45:31Derrick Levasseur?

  Right, and so here's where I'm at. And I didn't say it in episode one, I wanted to save it for now, but I wanna go back to primary versus secondary crime scene. Because as I sit here with you now, Stephanie, I'm still struggling to understand why you would get this Airbnb, why you would essentially torture this woman inside the Airbnb. You're gonna leave forensic evidence everywhere. And yet you would go to a secondary crime scene to actually murder her, to stab her, right? It is possible. I wanna put that out there right now that maybe for some reason, beyond my scope of understanding right now, he just wanted to limit the amount of forensic evidence inside the apartment, inside the Airbnb. So they had both agreed that this was going to happen in the woods, right where she was gonna be buried.

• 1:46:16Derrick Levasseur?

  So he wouldn't be forced to transport her dead body to another location, which could increase the likelihood of him getting caught. On the other hand, is there a world where she discloses to him that she no longer wants to go through with this? And he says, you know what? I get it, understand, no problem. We're gonna make a couple of quick stops and then I'm gonna drop you off somewhere.

• 1:46:39Stephanie Harlowe?

  I'm gonna drop you off at the airport.

• 1:46:40Derrick Levasseur?

  We'll get you, we'll get you on your way. And so she agrees to go with him and they end up at that Lowe's and that's her in the car. And she's thinking she's gonna be brought back to the airport or another hotel or somewhere where she can get back home eventually. But Dwayne has other plans. And because she's not familiar with the area, she doesn't know if she's going north or south. She doesn't know if she's heading towards the airport or further in towards Florida. She has no clue. And so by the time she realizes that they're not going to the destination he had promised, they're in the middle of woods somewhere. And.

• 1:47:13Stephanie Harlowe?

  That is a really, a really good point.

• 1:47:15Derrick Levasseur?

  There's nothing for her to do at that point. So he could have brought her there and said, I told you, there was no way out of this. And that was the end of it for her.

• 1:47:23Stephanie Harlowe?

  We don't know if that's where she was killed in the woods.

• 1:47:27Derrick Levasseur?

  But I would imagine there would be forensic evidence that would indicate that, blood in the soil. It has to be that location, Stephanie, or somewhere close to it.

• 1:47:34Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, but you would think that that would be indicated somewhere in the, in the police report because they're showing all the evidence against Dwayne that they have to, to arrest him. And he said, they don't know where I killed her.

• 1:47:49Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. I mean, and it's possible to avoid this, but if he had stabbed her somewhere else, you would imagine there would be a lot of bleeding, a lot of leaking. And unless he really wrapped her well, you would expect to find some remnants of that, some evidence of that inside the vehicle. And from what we know so far, we don't have that yet. Maybe that will be related at court where they examined his vehicle forensically and they found, they found evidence of blood everywhere in the back of the truck, which would then confirm that she was killed somewhere else. Absent of that evidence, my assumption would be that she was killed in close proximity to this area. He could have promised her, listen, we're gonna go there. We're gonna, I want you to see this area. It's really pretty, you know, then we can get you on your way.

• 1:48:31Derrick Levasseur?

  And so she could have been lured there with, under a false, a false impression.

• 1:48:35Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, I suppose that is, that is possible. And I think that we'll have more answers to that when Dwayne goes on trial, which is expected to happen in November. Jury selection is probably going to begin around November 16th, 2026. And then we will update you.

• 1:48:53Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:54Stephanie Harlowe?

  As we find more things out, because I will be paying attention very closely to this case.

• 1:48:58Derrick Levasseur?

  I really wanna understand the primary, secondary location. You, but you rent this Airbnb. It sounds like that's gonna be the place where everything's gonna go down. And it sounds like that's the start of where everything's went down. And then yet there's this, there's this course correction. And I have to wonder if it's because Sonia decided to back out of it, had a change of heart. She disclosed that information to him and then he made changes as well. So we're thinking about Sonia's family, everyone involved.

• 1:49:23Stephanie Harlowe?

  She had a mom, guys.

• 1:49:24Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:49:26Stephanie Harlowe?

  Ginger, I got a big problem with Ginger, one way or the other.

• 1:49:29Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, Ginger's at minimum a horrible person. I think we can say that, that's our opinion. And, and I do think there is a possibility that she became this person because of the environment she was in. It doesn't excuse her behavior. But I do think Dwayne is a manipulative person. He's a good speaker. We said that during the interrogation. But the, the interrogators knew all the facts and were able to end up have, you know, having him cry in the interrogation room. But someone like Ginger, who, who got in with him very young, may not be as intelligent as other people. She is someone who's gonna be super impressionable. And if kept in a controlled environment, she can be convinced to believe that this behavior is normal.

• 1:50:11Stephanie Harlowe?

  She, she sure can, but at some point when he's arrested for it and you hear the details.

• 1:50:17Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  For you to not be able to say, I didn't know this was happening, but I can admit and acknowledge that it is absolutely atrocious and not say that in a sarcastic way. That's not asking a lot. That's not asking a lot. You don't defend him and keep saying about how he's a good person and how he did this out of love because he really cared about Sonia. I don't wanna hear that. Nobody wants to hear that. And that's why you're giving shit about your GoFundMe. Not because anybody thinks you're responsible, but because you were defending and protecting and making excuses for somebody that there's no excuses to be made for. So yeah, that's where we're at. We'll keep you guys updated as we know more. And we start a whole new series next week.

• 1:50:58Derrick Levasseur?

  We do, we do. As always, guys, we appreciate the love, the support. This was a really fascinating series. It, it does shed a different light on crimes that are out there where it's not just the victim of opportunity. Sometimes these monsters are lurking in these online forums and they're looking for someone who's in a bad place mentally and is, and is put into a place where they can be coerced into doing something that isn't necessarily what they should be doing. And when they're getting advice from the wrong people, it's easy to go further down that bad path, so.

• 1:51:29Stephanie Harlowe?

  As we know, the internet opened up a whole new way for predators to find vulnerable people.

• 1:51:34Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, I do hope that with, with Dwayne being captured after this trial, we, we get new information from the FDLE or someone, maybe a federal agency saying, hey, listen, we're now looking into him for other crimes. We didn't wanna disclose that before this trial, but now that that's behind us, we're not done yet. We wanna try to give answers to as many families as possible. And we think Dwayne might be involved in some of those cases as well. And if there is something like that, we'll give you an update on it. It'll probably be a crime weekly news. But we'll, we'll see how the trial plays out. When there's an update there, we'll definitely give you an update on that one. Until next week, please, everyone stay safe out there and we'll see you soon.

• 1:52:14Stephanie Harlowe?

  We'll see you soon. Bye.