Pod Insights Crime Weekly S3 Ep312: Crime Weekly News: Karen Read Will Be Found NOT GUILTY About this episode Karen Read, accused of killing her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O’Keefe, is now on trial for a second time. With jurors now deliberating after hearing months of testimony, the case hinges on conflicting narratives: prosecutors claim Read struck O’Keefe with her car, leaving him to die, while the defense argues she’s being framed and a law enforcement cover-up is at play. We're coming to CrimeCon Denver! Use our code CRIMEWEEKLY for 10% off your tickets! https://www.crimecon.com/CC25Try our coffee!! - www. CriminalCoffeeCo.comBecome a Patreon member -- > ｿ https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeeklyShop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> ｿ https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shopYoutube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcastWebsite: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.comInstagram: @CrimeWeeklyPodTwitter: @CrimeWeeklyPodFacebook: @CrimeWeeklyPod
Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:13 Derrick Levasseur? Hey everyone, welcome back to Crime Weekly News. I'm Derrick Levasseur.
0:16 Stephanie Harlowe? And I'm Stephanie Harlow.
0:18 Derrick Levasseur? And as we're recording this, just so there's context, it is Tuesday afternoon, 4:19 PM. And as you can tell from the title of this video, we're talking about Karen Reed. And yes, I came up with the title of this episode. I believe that Karen Reed will be found not guilty, but it's not as clear cut as that and we're going to talk about it. So first off, for anyone who doesn't know, we were also just recording our Darlie Routier Part 5 episode. And I was following Twitter and the news to see if there were any updates. And there was a lot of movement today with the jury. We're going to break that down. And we're going to give our opinions as to why we think, and we're not legal experts, why we think that she will ultimately be found not guilty of the two more extreme charges.
1:01 Derrick Levasseur? There's some other charges that she may be found guilty of based on the questioning that was asked. We're going to talk about all of it. Anything you want to say, Stephanie, before we dive into it? Again, we're just, we just finished Darlie Routier. We have not researched this. We're going off what's been put out there on X and all that stuff. And this is going to be a different Crime Weekly News. There's no script. We're just kind of going to be talking about it, but I think based on the questions, I feel very confident in saying she's going to be, she's going to be acquitted.
1:27 Stephanie Harlowe? I think that's the only appropriate outcome. And somebody actually texted me last night because they know that I've covered this and talked about it. And it appears a lot of people are just jumping on to this now and haven't been there through the whole thing. The first trial, the second trial.
1:41 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah.
1:42 Stephanie Harlowe? But they asked me, you know, what, what do you think about Karen Reed? And I was like, well, that's a loaded question. What do I think about Karen Reed? I said, well, Personally, for me, I think she did hit him.
1:54 Derrick Levasseur? Yup.
1:54 Stephanie Harlowe? Accidentally, because she was drunk.
1:56 Derrick Levasseur? Yup. And people, by the way, before you continue, will have a problem with that.
2:01 Stephanie Harlowe? And that's fine. I said, I don't, I don't believe that she intentionally hit him and intended to kill him, as the prosecution, for some reason, has gone so hard on proving. And I said, and there is, you know, ideas that there's some conspiracy happening with the people inside that house, with the McCabe's, the Albert's, and that because of their close ties with law enforcement, that the police sort of, you know, framed Karen Reed. And they were like, well, what do you think? You know, is that possible? And I said, you would be more likely to convince me that there was a conspiracy happening on the part of the Albert's and the McCabe's than you would be to convince me that Karen Reed intentionally killed John O'Keefe. That's where I kind of am. So I would be more willing to believe,
2:45 Stephanie Harlowe? based on how the state of Massachusetts and how Canton has handled this investigation, you'd be more able to convince me that they covered it up, that they were trying to frame her, that there was a conspiracy, than you would to convince me that she just intended to kill him and got in her car that night and was like, I'm gonna kill my boyfriend and get away with it. I do not believe that in any world that exists, which is why I don't understand why the prosecution has seemed to believe this so wholeheartedly and hang their hat on it, even though they have no evidence of it. So having her be acquitted is the only correct scenario, in my opinion.
3:24 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah, I agree with you. We've talked about it. We covered Karen Reed a lot. And I do apologize if you catch me looking at my phone. I'm still looking for updates as we're going. But I, but I too believe that she hit him. And I know people will have a problem with that. I've said it publicly multiple times now. But I also said during the, the coverage of the Karen Reed case, that I, I believe the correct outcome here would be an acquittal because. There was a lot of things done in this case that weren't done appropriately and we could sit here and rehash every reason why, you know, as far as law enforcement having tunnel vision, them playing favor to friends of theirs or colleagues of theirs, or just incompetence and not doing, and just negligence, not doing their job to the fullest ability.
4:03 Stephanie Harlowe? The way that Proctor was talking about her.
4:06 Derrick Levasseur? Correct.
4:06 Stephanie Harlowe? So obviously in a group chat, unprofessional, thought she was guilty right from the get without, without doing an investigation, just doesn't look good for them at all.
4:13 Derrick Levasseur? And this is kind of like the movie Inception right here, because I feel like I'm within an episode, but in the Darlie Routier case that we were just talking about, I brought up the fact that law enforcement has multiple obligations during an investigation. It's to build their case, it's to follow the evidence, but it's also to explore any potential exculpatory evidence, regardless of how unlikely they may believe it's true or not. And that's, they're supposed to go that way. They didn't. They felt from the get-go, she did it, and they basically focused on any evidence that would support that. If they had taken the time to get a search warrant for the house, to look into some different things, to have John O'Keefe's body x-rayed, different things they could have done, they, they may have
4:56 Derrick Levasseur? helped their case or helped prosecution because they would have been able to say, interesting theory, we looked into those things, here's why that's not true. But because they didn't, it raises reasonable doubt and the burden of proof is on the prosecution. And I think there's a lot of holes in this case. So what do I think's going to happen? I personally believe that she's going to be found not guilty on charges one and two, the manslaughter murder, and then she potentially will be found guilty of the OUI, although that's even up for debate. I want to read two different X's here, two X tweets here that I think really summarize this whole Karen Reed case. So from the Prosecutors Podcast, Brett from the Prosecutors, his last tweet was 27 minutes ago. Here's what he wrote.
5:41 Derrick Levasseur? A few hours ago, I was convinced we were getting either a straight acquittal or at best a DUI conviction. But I have a hard time believing the jury is going home to come back and just debate the DUI some more. So my new theory is we have a not guilty on M2 and leaving the scene. So I'm assuming that's manslaughter too, right? And the guilty jurors think that Karen hit John, but they think she was blitzed out of her mind and don't see intent. At least some jurors think that the CW either didn't prove intoxication or didn't prove she hit him. Maybe they come back tomorrow and hang on the DUI, but there's still a chance manslaughter is on the table. We will see.
6:26 Derrick Levasseur? And now I want to read another tweet here from the defense diaries, which is Bob Mata. He's a defense attorney and he wrote something that I thought was interesting. I hope the defense motions the court to move the lesser included standalone OUI to count three. Are we about to see the most expensive prosecution for an OUI conviction in history? So he believes Karen Reed is innocent. Now, I don't know what he personally believes as far as what's happened, but as far as the courts are concerned, he believes that she's innocent and should be acquitted. Brett believes she should be found guilty. So there's two different perspectives from people in that field who are both attorneys, both having a different perspective on this throughout the whole trial.
7:08 Derrick Levasseur? And therefore there are their summaries on where it stands right now. Do you want to go through the questions, Stephanie? Because that can kind of give us an overview of where we are right now and why I think based on their questions, she's going to be found not guilty on the more severe charges.
7:24 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah, so jurors in this second murder trial, they asked for questions related to evidence and charges before they ended deliberations for the day, which is today, Tuesday. A few hours after court proceedings resumed, so they had, they'd gone out for a break and then they came back today for a second full day of deliberations. And a few hours after that, the jury sent three questions to Judge Beverly. The first question asked about the timeframe for the lesser operating under the influence, the OUI charge. The second asked whether Reed's interviews are evidence and how they can be considered. The third question was kind of centering on whether convicting on a lesser charge would
8:06 Stephanie Harlowe? be a conviction on the overriding count, which does indicate some confusion with the verdict. So after making some slight changes to the verdict slip for clarity, Canone brought the jury into the courtroom, walked them through the form to clear up any confusion that they may have had. So at this point, the defense team and prosecution returned to the court after 1:30 PM to discuss a fourth question. So this is now a fourth. They already asked three, now they're asking a fourth. So the fourth question asked was, the jury wanted to know whether they would be considered a hung jury if they found Reed not guilty on two charges but couldn't agree on a third. And if you remember, that's kind of what happened in the first trial. That's, we didn't find out until afterwards, but that is what happened during the first trial.
8:49 Stephanie Harlowe? And Beverly Canone, the judge, her response to this was to say that the question was theoretical and she couldn't answer it. And obviously, the defense objected because that's absolutely ludicrous. Because at the end of the day, I would believe that it's her decision, as it was in the first trial, to consider them a hung jury instead of saying, well, you know, we can't agree on this charge, but we agree on these charges, so this is what we'll charge her with. I think it's up to the judge ultimately.
9:16 Derrick Levasseur? They should have a clear answer here.
9:18 Stephanie Harlowe? Yes, they should. She should be able to answer that. And I feel like the fact that she's not answering it is because she wants to, once again, be the ultimate arbiter of what happens to Karen Reed, depending on what the jury says, which, this is not how the justice system works. It's the jury that should ultimately be the decider, it's a jury of Karen Reed's peers, not Judge Canone being like, well, you know, they couldn't agree on this charge. So instead of throwing this charge out, because once again, a second jury can't agree. I'm going to just say, oh, mistrial hung jury and let's do this all over again.
9:52 Derrick Levasseur? To go back to the questions, just to elaborate a little bit more on the first three questions. Kanone, when she came back, you just answered what she said about the third one, which doesn't make a lot of sense.
10:00 Stephanie Harlowe? The fourth one, yeah.
10:01 Derrick Levasseur? She'd have more details, but she basically said to the first question, you guys have quote, all the evidence and you are quote, the fact finders in response to that question. She responded to the second question and told the jury that the videos of Reed's interviews are evidence and should be given as much weight as they deem appropriate. And then after, then that's when she made some slight changes to the verdict slip and listen, I'm in, I'm in agreeance with you here. If they find her not guilty on the first two charges, there should be some separation between that third charge because on a personal note, and I don't know if this is how the system works and this is no disrespect to John O'Keefe or his family. We can't spend any more time on this one. I tell, I talked about last week about making difficult decisions in law enforcement and
10:47 Derrick Levasseur? in life, and this is one of those difficult decisions. The government shouldn't be allowed to keep putting someone on trial until they get a verdict, whether it's in their favor or not. It should be at most two times. And if two different juries can't come to an agreement, that's it. But what I would like to see happen here, or what I think is going to happen. And I do, I would like it because I think it's good for our society. It's good for everybody. We've, we've consumed too much Karen Reed content at this point. But I, I would like to see if it's going to come back as an acquittal on charges one and two. If she's found guilty on charge three, or even if it's a hung jury, that should be separate and it should either be something that's handled at a much lower scale
11:32 Derrick Levasseur? outside the, you know, all of this and we should all move on with our lives because whether you think Karen's guilty or not. I look at the videos and the photos and everything go on at these courts and how it's affected this community and rightfully so because this is bigger than just Karen Reed and I've said that from day one. It's about our trust in the people that have the ability to take away our freedom. I'm not only talking about cops, I'm talking about judges, talk about everybody, the whole system. And I think for a lot of people, even if they think that Karen Reed did it, the fact that there's been so much reasonable doubt in this case and it's gone on for so long and they see all the things that were happening behind closed doors within the agencies investigating this case, that's why they're connected to
12:17 Derrick Levasseur? it. They're not necessarily a Karen Reed supporter. They're more a supporter of what Karen Reed represents and what this case represents. Now, there are a lot of people who just love Karen Reed and are out there taking selfies with her and all this stuff and hey, man, whatever floats your boat, you do your thing. But I would love to see this case come to a conclusion and if the jury decides that she's not guilty on charges one and two, let that be known and let's all move on with our lives. That's where I stand on this one.
12:47 Stephanie Harlowe? So do I, but I think the fact that the judge won't give them a straight answer is going to interfere with their deliberations.
12:54 Derrick Levasseur? I agree.
12:55 Stephanie Harlowe? So now they're going to feel like they have to make a decision on those first two charges that they can't agree on, or it'll be a hung jury and a mistrial and then the state will have to pay again to bring this woman back to court because that's what that's what Ambev did the first time. So the fact of the matter is, these jury, these jury members, I believe, will be influenced by that. They'll be like, well, we kind of have to agree on these now because she couldn't give us a straight answer. This is messed up. And I don't know if you can hold judges in contempt, but she should be held in contempt. She should be removed from this. She should never be allowed to have anything to do with Karen Reed again because this is ludicrous. This is what happened the first time with Beverly Canone. They could not agree on these two charges. They did agree on the third charge.
13:40 Stephanie Harlowe? So that's what she's found guilty of. Hello? That is what she's found guilty of. You went through a second trial. The jury's in the exact same position. What do you think new is going to happen that will... Third trial will suddenly clear up. This is ludicrous. It's ludicrous. And honestly, if I was Karen Reed, I would sue these people so hard at the end of this. Because this is years of her life, money, energy, her reputation on the line. As basically like the, the state painting her as this cold blooded murderer. This is, but she had to sell her house. Like, this is bad.
14:17 Derrick Levasseur? I want to talk about that. I want to talk about that because we were debating it off camera and we didn't agree. And we'll, we'll do it here as well because I have, I've, I agree with you on some of what you're saying. I think we are, are what's happening behind closed doors and what can be done may be different. But we'll get there in a second. So, yes, agree with everything you said. I'm really hoping that these 12 individuals can put their differences aside. And if they've come to a, a conclusion on the first two charges where they all are in agreeance. And I know some people don't like me using the word agreeance. It is a word. I'll use agreement as well if you'd like, but agreeance is a word. I, I had to put the definition out there for some people. But if they come to a conclusion on the two, the bigger charges, go over the OUI, take as much time as you need.
15:00 Derrick Levasseur? But if there's one or two people, I really hope that they realize the significance of coming back with a hung jury on this one charge. How it's not going to only impact Karen, everybody involved, the city, the community, the entire country. There's a lot more at stake here than just an OUI charge. And I really hope that these couple individuals who may be holding out, may have a difference of opinion. Can get down to the root of what matters here and understand that, listen, whether you find her guilty, I'm just going to be honest. You find her guilty, guilty on the OUI or not, they're still celebrating. That doesn't mean shit to them at this point. It's, it's a nothing burger. Whatever the majority is, guilty, not guilty, maybe you concede a little bit.
15:42 Derrick Levasseur? Maybe you compromise because at the end of the day, it ain't going to affect her at all. Now, I want to talk about what you said because it's an interesting conversation. You talked about her suing the city or the state after this because of everything that's transpired.
15:55 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah, the police department.
15:56 Derrick Levasseur? They're not going to be able to sue the police department more than likely. I did look it up a little bit. So in most instances, when you are charged with a crime and you have to go to trial, there's not much you can do about legal fees unless you can prove misconduct. So in this case, it could be applicable. That might be the case where she can do it. But there was something I was looking up, and it's the Vanity Fair article, and you can, everyone can pull it up as well, where basically, Jackson and Yanetti are saying that, yes, she did sell her house, she's pulling from her IRAs, but from what this article is stating, that's more for just living expenses right now. The over $5 million in legal fees that she's accrued is under deferred legal fees right now. And so my interpretation of it, although it's not
16:40 Derrick Levasseur? no definition next to what he said there, I believe it was, I believe it was Jackson. I don't believe she's paid a dime. That's my personal opinion. Maybe a couple fees, a retainer upfront when this started, but once it took on a life of its own, I think Yanetti, Jackson, the entire legal team realize that at the end of all this, regardless of the outcome, they are not only going to potentially be able to sue the city, the police department, whoever they go off of, which will be much more than $5 million, but there's also going to be exclusivity rights for, for movies, television shows, books. I mean, I wouldn't say as big, but it's in the realm of the OJ Simpson case. And so they are going to do speaking appearances. They're going to do so many different things where they know the business side of this,
17:26 Derrick Levasseur? they are going to make way more than $5 million. And just the lawsuit alone, if they win, that could be for hundreds of millions of dollars. So.
17:34 Stephanie Harlowe? So it doesn't really matter to me. When this happened, Karen Reed was successful, wealthy, owned her dream home, had a great life. And now can she work when this is happening? No. Has her career suffered extensive damage? She had to leave her job. She had to sell her dream house that she worked her ass off for.
17:52 Derrick Levasseur? Yep. I think I saw like eight, what was it? 800 grand?
17:54 Stephanie Harlowe? 800 grand. She had to do all of that. And not only that, but her reputation. So yes, did she gain? Some following and some fans from this, that doesn't mean anything when the life you've worked so hard to build, when probably all you wanted was privacy, a loving partner, and a happy life, when that all has been blown up because these idiots at the Massachusetts State Police, the state of Massachusetts and Canton, couldn't get their heads out of their ass, and when they went too hard and realized, and then they had to feel like they had to continue going with this, this should have been over after the first trial. They felt like they had to continue going with this, for what? Even if she was drunk and accidentally hit him, this is out of control, what has happened.
18:36 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah, it's crazy at this point. And we agree on that, where I am just over this case. I wanted justice for John. It doesn't look like we're gonna get that, one way or the other. It's not gonna happen. We're never gonna know.
18:49 Stephanie Harlowe? Cause nobody knows what happens. After two trials, the jury's still in the same place. That means really, the evidence and the information is the same, and the, both sides are trying to figure out a way to present it differently, which will maybe get a different reaction from the jury, but it's not happening. Which means, none of us will ever know.
19:05 Derrick Levasseur? It's not happening. Karen Reed-
19:07 Stephanie Harlowe? Karen Reed don't even know, let's be honest.
19:08 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah, exactly. Karen Reed, if she's found not guilty, which I believe she will be found not guilty, if she did it, she's walking. If she's acquitted on that, she can never be tried again. And there's no indication that there's any investigation into the McAlberts or any of that, so that's not gonna happen either. So whether you're in the camp that Karen did it, or you're in the camp that John was killed inside that house, he's not gonna get justice. We all agree, he was killed. That's the one thing we can all agree on. Who did it? They're more than likely never gonna be, they're never gonna spend a day behind prison answering for that. And that's just the sad reality of it. But I agree with mostly everything you said there. I think at the end of the day, her life has been changed forever. I would argue that from a financial perspective, it's probably gonna
19:52 Derrick Levasseur? be better now. All this trauma, and all the, everything she had to experience, not knowing if you were gonna go to prison for the rest of your life. It takes a lot out of you. It takes a lot out of you. When I was on, I had to go through the grand jury hearing for my shooting, which is a standard thing. Every officer has to go through it. I was throwing up every single day. I didn't sleep for weeks because I knew there was a jury of my peers that based on their interpretation of the evidence could indict me. And that would change my life. So I don't know exactly what she went through, but I have a little bit of a of an idea and I'm just ready for us to move on and for everybody from the judicial system, from law enforcement, from just our society in general.
20:36 Derrick Levasseur? We're ready for the story to end and move on to the next thing that's going to come up because there definitely will be something else.
20:43 Stephanie Harlowe? So Karen Reed was financially fine to begin with. Okay, she was doing really well and I guarantee you that she would trade any money that's coming or any publicity or any like notoriety for a quiet life in her, you know, dream house with the man that she loved.
20:58 Derrick Levasseur? Question for you. If that's the case, do you think she sues, gets all her money? Does whatever, like let's say hypothetically she sues, wins beaucoup bucks, right? Millions and millions of dollars set for life financially. Do you think Karen Reed goes off and lives her life with all her money and tries to just live as normal of a life as possible? Or do you think we see her for the next 20 years on every documentary, TV show, movie, book deal, speaking tour?
21:25 Stephanie Harlowe? Well, I mean, at this point, you're, she's going to view herself as a victim of the system. And now this is going to be like, just like, you know, any parent who lost their child, you know, to a crime, probably didn't, would prefer to have their child back and not be a voice for this kind of thing and not be on, you know, out there raising awareness for it. But they're doing it now because it's like something happened that impacted my life and changed it. And now I have to help others. Now I have to be a voice out there, keeping awareness for this kind of thing because it could happen to any of us.
21:55 Derrick Levasseur? So let me play the other side to that and you've said it. There's, you believe that she hit him. Do you think, I'll ask this one question and we'll go on from there. Do you think there's a possibility that she also thinks she hit him? Or do you think she, and I'm asking you to get inside of her head. But do you think unequivocally, she believes she did not hit him?
22:13 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah, I do. I believe that she believes she did not hit him. Yes.
22:16 Derrick Levasseur? She, you, you don't think there's any point to her, even though she said, I hit him the next day?
22:20 Stephanie Harlowe? I, well, first of all, that hasn't been proven that she said that.
22:23 Derrick Levasseur? She said she said it in a documentary. They played it. That's what they're talking about the video.
22:26 Stephanie Harlowe? Could I have hit him? Could I have hit him? She's wondering because yeah, now she's going back. She's been like, when I left that fricking house, I was kinda toasted.
22:33 Derrick Levasseur? Right. So she's saying that there's a possibility she hit him.
22:36 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah, but I don't think she remembers whether or not she did.
22:39 Derrick Levasseur? Because, but the reason I make this point, because I don't want to get caught in the weeds. If she, if there's any part of her that believes she could have hit him completely by accident. I don't think there's any world she did this intentionally. I never have. No chance. At worst, she was drunk and she accidentally hit him while peeling off. For all we know, she had put the car in reverse instead of drive accidentally, right? It was, she wasn't even intending to go in reverse. I've always believed that. I've never believed she said, oh, this mother effer and tried to kill him. No shot. But my point for saying all this is if there's a world where she believes she did hit him. Wouldn't it make more sense not to go out there and, and, and say all of this when there's a part of you that knows it may not even be true?
23:21 Derrick Levasseur? Prosecution may have gotten it right. They just, the law enforcement, Massapele Police, Canton Police, just did a horrible job with the investigation.
23:28 Stephanie Harlowe? Well, no, I don't think the prosecution got it right because they really tried to make it look like she did it intentionally. And she knew that she did it, that she was mad at him. She was mad at him, right? That's why they made such a big deal.
23:38 Derrick Levasseur? I never agree with that.
23:39 Stephanie Harlowe? That's why they, exactly. That's why they made such a big deal of showing their texts and how mad she was. See how mad she was and look, listen to her yelling at him after she got home. That's how mad she was. If I hit him and I knew I hit him, I'm not going home, calling his voicemail and being like, you am a f-er, f you this, f you that. Absolutely not.
23:55 Derrick Levasseur? Completely agree.
23:56 Stephanie Harlowe? That's why I will never believe that she knew. Was she upset? Yes. Did she hate him and want him dead? No. She loved him. That's why she was fighting so hard for him.
24:04 Derrick Levasseur? I agree with all that. I agree with that. I don't think she sends that text message if she knew. She hit him, or I'm not the text message, the voicemail, the voicemail. Hundred percent agree with you. Don't disagree at all. I don't think that she would have gone.
24:15 Stephanie Harlowe? Like I'm gonna yell at someone I know is dead? Come on.
24:17 Derrick Levasseur? Well, I mean, listen, I could, we've seen it where somebody will set up an alibi where they'll like send a text message like, hey, are you coming home soon? There's something simple, but the way she went in on him.
24:27 Stephanie Harlowe? Or she would have called him. Yeah, she would have been like, honey, I'm sorry. We argued. I left. Like, I hope you come home tonight. We can talk about it and make up. That's what her voicemail would have been. Not like MFU, I hate you, blah, blah, blah.
24:37 Derrick Levasseur? No, I agree. It made it, it's not a, it's not a flattering voicemail.
24:40 Stephanie Harlowe? No, but it's, but have any one of us not been there in a heated relationship dynamic when we've consumed alcohol? Of course.
24:48 Derrick Levasseur? Agreed.
24:49 Stephanie Harlowe? It's intense. It's intense. Passions are high, man.
24:51 Derrick Levasseur? And if she thought for any, in any way, shape or form that law enforcement could be listening to this voicemail, you're right. She would have, the optics would have been there and she would have been a lot more toned down. So I agree with you. Yeah, I think overall, prosecution, law enforcement did not do a great job with this one. And, and we have said it from day one and we've said it during the series. Do we think she hit him? More than likely. Yeah, I, I think she did. If you're asking me, I think she hit him. It doesn't change the, the fact that as we go to trial and we look at everything, what you believe and what you can prove is two different things. And if they do come back with an, with an acquittal, I think it's the right decision. I'll have no rebuttals for it. I think it's the right call based on the facts and circumstances of this case.
25:35 Derrick Levasseur? And I hope for everybody, that's what happens. And I say that out of as much respect as I can for John O'Keefe's family.
25:41 Stephanie Harlowe? Of course.
25:42 Derrick Levasseur? I do not see a situation where Karen Reed is going to be found guilty based on those questions that you just, you just laid out today. Let's really talk about that fourth one. If we agree on two charges, but not the lesser offense, I believe was the thing. Would that, would that have resulted in a hung jury? So my interpretation of that as not a lawyer is, hey, we don't think she killed him. We don't think that the prosecution met that burden of proof. The OUI, based on the fact that she was at the bar, based on that she's admitted she's, she was driving the car.
26:09 Stephanie Harlowe? Level, yeah, of course.
26:10 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah, we, we believe she could have been drunk while driving, but what if we have one person in this group? That says, no, I don't think she should be found guilty on that because they didn't. Do an SFST. They didn't take her blood. They didn't do all these things. So how could they know that she was above the legal limit at the time when she was driving? It's it's speculated that she was, but we don't have any proof of it. So maybe there's that one person saying that.
26:31 Stephanie Harlowe? They said, would they be considered a hung jury if they find her not guilty on two charges? Yes, but can't agree on a third. That is, I believe, what happened in the the first trial.
26:41 Derrick Levasseur? Agreed. And they and there's been rumors that they found her not guilty on the first two charges. So if that's the case here, what are we doing? Just get it over with.
26:51 Stephanie Harlowe? So it's not even that they can't agree on all of them. It's that they have completely agreed on two of the charges, which I would say.
26:59 Derrick Levasseur? Well, probably the two more serious charges.
27:00 Stephanie Harlowe? The two more serious charges, but they can't agree on a third because yes, there's going to be people on the jury that's like, after what this woman's been through, she shouldn't even see a day of of time in jail. Like, we shouldn't give them the satisfaction to even get this out of us. And then there's going to be people who are being.
27:14 Derrick Levasseur? Stephanie, if they come back tomorrow and say she's guilty of OUI, do you think she's going to care?
27:18 Stephanie Harlowe? No, but I think there's people on the jury that are like, we don't even want to give the prosecution this much. Like, you know what I mean? So there's probably, that's probably where it's coming from, why they can't agree on that third, because I feel like, like you said, it's pretty obvious. She was drinking and driving. It's pretty standard. So the fact that you couldn't agree on that would mean that it's like, hey, yeah, we just, she's been through enough. Two frickin' trials.
27:40 Derrick Levasseur? Everybody's been through enough. I'm not just talking about her. The O'Keefes, the community of Canton, the entire country, the the the resources and everything that's been devoted. Let's say that everybody, 11 jurors agree that she's guilty of OUI. One doesn't. You gotta come around, buddy. Whoever that is.
27:55 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah, get on board, man.
27:57 Derrick Levasseur? Conversely, if 11 of them believe she's not guilty and one thinks she's guilty, the argument you just made has to be made. Listen, the judge just told us, if we don't agree on this charge, even though we agree on the more significant charges.
28:09 Stephanie Harlowe? Hypothetical que- it's not a hypothetical question.
28:12 Derrick Levasseur? Theoretical.
28:12 Stephanie Harlowe? Aunt Bev, it happened already in the first trial. There's nothing hypothetical about this. I can't stand her.
28:19 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah, I think you're in agree with a lot. A lot of people agree with you.
28:22 Stephanie Harlowe? I can't stand her. She should lose. She should not be a judge. She is awful.
28:26 Derrick Levasseur? She's not the only judge that shouldn't be a judge. There's a lot of them out there.
28:29 Stephanie Harlowe? For sure.
28:29 Derrick Levasseur? But yeah, that they have to come together and they cannot let this last charge. If it is the OUI, we're all speculating on this. If it's the OUI, they gotta let it go. One way or the other, if the majority, if it's one or two people, you gotta realize the impact that this can have. And honestly, the sentencing that would come from this one way or the other, it's not gonna make a difference.
28:52 Stephanie Harlowe? But isn't Beverly Canone the judge? Isn't she the one that decides on sentencing ultimately?
28:58 Derrick Levasseur? I, I, see, I thought so.
28:59 Stephanie Harlowe? The jury might be afraid of even going like, oh yeah, she's guilty of this charge because then Judge Bev could be like, well, based on, you know, my feelings, you get 10 years in prison for this.
29:08 Derrick Levasseur? If I'm giving my honest opinion, if you find her not guilty on the manslaughter and the murder, it's pretty simple. If, if, if most people are in agreeance on the OUI or not, just go with it because it has no impact. And I would even say, at this point, find her not guilty on the OUI too. It, what does it matter at this point? Let it be done. Let it be done. Acquitted on all charges, not guilty on all charges on the verdict slip. We'll throw the verdict slipped up here, right here. You can see it. It's all over the internet. There's a few verdict slips. It's not just one because they're four different offenses, but yeah, I believe as we wrap this up and Stephanie believes as well, Karen Reed will be found not guilty. Now, there is that caveat where if that third charge, if they get a hung jury on it, Canone could say, we gotta do it all over again,
29:51 Derrick Levasseur? which would be an absolute travesty for everybody involved. And I'm praying that doesn't happen.
29:56 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah, I, I think Massachusetts would riot.
29:58 Derrick Levasseur? Yeah.
29:59 Stephanie Harlowe? And they'd be headed to, they'd be headed to Aunt Bev's house. Okay?
30:02 Derrick Levasseur? It can't happen. It can't happen. It can't happen. Everyone has gone through enough. The, the resources that have been spent, the, the money that's been spent, the taxpayer's money. This is done because at worst you're looking at a woman who was driving drunk and accidentally hit her boyfriend while leaving the scene. That's the worst case scenario in my opinion and in your opinion. That's the worst thing we have here now. Does it change anything? John O'Keefe deserved better, of course. But sometimes you just gotta be pragmatic about it. You gotta separate emotion from logic.
30:32 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah, this is.
30:33 Derrick Levasseur? Any final words from you?
30:34 Stephanie Harlowe? No, I think, I think that's it. I hope Aunt Bev makes the right decision.
30:38 Derrick Levasseur? I really do too. I hope the jury spends the night sleeping on it and whatever the majority is, go with it.
30:45 Stephanie Harlowe? Tensions are high. You already have a lot of people that think there's some conspiracy and Aunt Bev continuing on in this way is only going to increase that and this will never.
30:53 Derrick Levasseur? Well, that's why I'm saying the jury can take it out of her hands.
30:55 Stephanie Harlowe? Yeah, yeah.
30:56 Derrick Levasseur? It's pretty simple. Not guilty. Guess what? She's got no.
30:59 Stephanie Harlowe? Not guilty across the board, yeah.
31:00 Derrick Levasseur? Not guilty across the board and it's over. That's what I'm saying, right? Like if it's 50 50 on the OUI and you really want to make sure that this woman doesn't have to go through this again because you all believe she's not guilty of murder or manslaughter. Well, then you know what? Pragmatically, you gotta do the right thing here because if you leave it as a hung jury, now you put it back in the lap of Bev. So how do you remove her? You come back not guilty, right? Done. Case closed. So we want to hear your thoughts. Let us know what you think. We know we're gonna get a lot of comments on this one. What do you think of everything right now after hearing and seeing what you saw today? What do you think the jury will come back and say tomorrow? It's gonna be a big day. I'm pretty certain that we're gonna have a verdict one way or the other tomorrow.
31:45 Derrick Levasseur? And I'm really hoping it's not a hung jury. So we will be back next week with our sixth and final part of the Darlie Routier case. We'll be back with another crime weekly news. If we have a verdict tomorrow, we might even do a live or an update after that where you get an extra episode this week. But until then, everyone stay safe out there and we will see you very soon.
32:07 Stephanie Harlowe? Bye, guys.
Previous S3 Ep311: Darlie Routier: The Lies That Led to a Capital Murder Charge (Part 4) Next S3 Ep313: Karen Read: NOT GUILTY Page updated November 3, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated