S3 Ep251: Dee Dee Blanchard: Justice Served? (Part 7)

A small, quiet town in Missouri. A devoted mother caring for her chronically ill daughter. A story of love, sacrifice, and survival. Or so it seemed. But behind closed doors, beneath the layers of sympathy and kindness, there was a dark secret waiting to be uncovered. For nearly two decades Dee Dee Blanchard told the world that her daughter, Gypsy Rose, was dying. Leukemia, muscular dystrophy, seizures, vision and hearing issues, the list of illnesses and medical concerns was endless. Gypsy, a seemingly happy little girl with a huge smile, was bound to a wheelchair, fed through a tube, and showered with the attention and support of everyone around her, but no one really knew the horrifying truth. It seemed that Gypsy was perfectly healthy. She could walk. She didn't need a wheelchair to get around, and it appeared that she was being kept a prisoner in her own body, in her own home, by her own mother. The story goes that years of abuse, manipulation, and lies built up until they all came crashing down in the most unthinkable way: Murder. On the night of June 14, 2015, Dee Dee Blanchard was found stabbed to death in her home, and the prime suspect? Dee-Dee's innocent, smiling, happy, and allegedly disabled daughter, along with the man that Gypsy had been having a very adult relationship with. But nothing about this case is as it appears to be. This is the story of Gypsy Rose and Dee Dee Blanchard. Try our coffee!! - www. CriminalCoffeeCo.comBecome a Patreon member -- > ｿ https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeeklyShop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> ｿ https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shopYoutube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcastWebsite: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.comInstagram: @CrimeWeeklyPodTwitter: @CrimeWeeklyPodFacebook: @CrimeWeeklyPodADS:1. DraftKings Casino - New players, play just $5 to score 50 INSTANTLY in Casino Credits! Download the app and sign up with code CRIMEWEEKLY. Then get a taste of Sauce Boss Barbecue, exclusively on DraftKings Casino! 2. ShipStation.com/CrimeWeekly - Use code CRIMEWEEKLY and get a 60 Day Free Trial!3. TryFum.com - Use code CRIMEWEEKLY and get a FREE gift with your Journey Pack!4. SimpliSafe.com/CrimeWeekly - Get 60% off ANY new system with a Select Professional Monitoring Plan!

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:12Stephanie Harlowe?

  Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Crime Weekly. I'm Stephanie Harlow.

• 0:16Derrick Levasseur?

  And I'm Derrick Levasseur.

• 0:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  So today, we are diving into the seventh and final installment of the D.D. and Gypsy Rose Blanchard series. Today, we're going to cover very little of, well, it's basically going to cover where we left off from their arrests, and then brings us up to where we are today.

• 0:35Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah.

• 0:35Stephanie Harlowe?

  And

• 0:36Derrick Levasseur?

  Finally.

• 0:37Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yes, and we'll, and we'll obviously give our final thoughts as well. But yeah, easy breezy, and you know, a lot of, a lot of the more modern Gypsy Rose kind of situation. So we're gonna, we're gonna dive into that. Is there anything you want to say before we do?

• 0:55Derrick Levasseur?

  Couple of things. Glad this series is over. I'm at the point now where I get into my Derek fatigue. You know, I do this on the series too, where I'm like, okay, I'm checked out. But you gotta finish strong, and we're gonna do that tonight. And I said it on Crime Weekly News, I just want to say here very quickly, thank you to everyone who came out to the Crime Con cruise. Obviously, Stephanie couldn't be there, but the well wishes and kind words that were passed along from you to her were greatly appreciated. And shout out to Candace, someone who was going through a personal battle, was told by doctors she shouldn't come on the cruise, and yet she fought through it, got the approval, came out there, had a really great conversation with her, and a lot of great conversations with many of you. It was an amazing experience.

• 1:40Derrick Levasseur?

  It was my first one, one I won't forget. So thank you for that. And for anyone who couldn't make it, maybe we'll see you at Crime Con in Denver. And who knows, maybe we'll be back on a cruise next year. Now that I've gone out there, Stephanie, and kind of put the feelers out there and tested the waters, no pun intended, maybe you'll join the next one.

• 1:57Stephanie Harlowe?

  Oh, definitely. I definitely, I mean, I'm still scared.

• 2:02Derrick Levasseur?

  I mean, listen, I gotta tell you, these cruise ships are massive, but it actually felt very small. I don't know. Would you get sick of me after seven days trapped on a boat with me, though?

• 2:11Stephanie Harlowe?

  No, definitely not. But I would get sick probably

• 2:13Derrick Levasseur?

  I'd be hiding from you.

• 2:14Stephanie Harlowe?

  The motion of the water.

• 2:16Derrick Levasseur?

  It wasn't bad. It wasn't bad. I will say, uh, there was some choppy water with the tropical storm that we went through, but other than that, it wasn't terrible. And I think just overall, the what was being covered there in, you know, shout out to Cheryl McCollum, Paul Holes, Nate Eden, Chris Hansen, uh, Matt Murphy, and everyone at the Crime Con team. Just an incredible experience. It's really smart people who've done a lot in their careers and getting to hear from them and getting their feedback on stuff. I covered a case, Robin Pope, which we covered on Crime Weekly. I did a Crown, a Cry, a CrowdSolve with it and Paul Holes actually was in the audience and at one point came up on the stage and he was, he was just, he was interested in this specific photo that I showed. He was like literally dissecting it and we were going back

• 3:00Derrick Levasseur?

  and forth, like debating some things and it wasn't even planned. And people were saying that was the best part of that whole presentation to hear us kind of just think tank, what this, what this photo could be. It was a T-shirt wrapped around her hand. You know, was it binding? Was it during a struggle? And we were just kind of riffing right there. So, cool experience. We're looking forward to doing it again and Crime Con wants to do a more, a bigger, uh, more involved CrowdSolve at maybe the actual Crime Con event. So, stay tuned for that.

• 3:27Stephanie Harlowe?

  Oh yeah, that would be awesome. I love doing the CrowdSolve stuff. I've just never been able to participate because we're always on, uh, podcast row.

• 3:33Derrick Levasseur?

  Yes. No, it's something that they want to do. It was, it was very well received and maybe we will do it in the future. It's a lot. It's a lot. You gotta get permission from the departments and stuff like that. So, thank you to everyone who came. Uh, never get tired of meeting you guys and it's great to sit down, have conversations, have a couple of drinks, talk about where you are in life, what you like about the show, what you don't. One thing that someone came up to me and talked to me about, it was kind of funny, was during another presentation where they're like, "We need closed captions." And I'm like, "I'm trying, but it's like, they have it for YouTube, but it kind of sucks. You have to get a third-party person to do it." And they're like, "Listen, I'm always listening to your show while I'm at work or watching it, so I can't have the volume on." And I'm like, "So, you're watching two-hour videos at work? I don't want to know where you work." Everyone started laughing. It was great.

• 4:18Stephanie Harlowe?

  I put subtitles on for everything because of, of ADHD. So, I completely get that because I watch and my eyes are on the screen, but I find if I don't- See the words, my brain starts to travel and then I realize, oh, I haven't, yeah, I haven't been paying attention this whole time. So then I gotta rewind it, but with the captions on it like locks me in.

• 4:37Derrick Levasseur?

  I think we have them on for ours too, but I don't know.

• 4:39Stephanie Harlowe?

  The YouTube ones are a little janky and I will say when I put them on for my channel, I have to go into the transcript.

• 4:45Derrick Levasseur?

  And edit it.

• 4:46Stephanie Harlowe?

  I don't, I can't edit the whole thing. It would take forever, but I'll go through and see if there's any like names or words that are like egregiously misspelled. And then I'll fix those, but yeah.

• 4:56Derrick Levasseur?

  That's the thing. That's the feedback, right? Like we get some of it in the comments, but it's nice to hear from people in person and have a conversation about life. The election was going on while we were on the boat. Just a really interesting week overall, but glad to have done it. We'll be there again at some point. A lot of people talking about Gypsy Rose too.

• 5:16Stephanie Harlowe?

  What do they say?

• 5:17Derrick Levasseur?

  I gotta tell you, it's mixed. I got some, I got some blowback for sure. I definitely got some blow. I had some, uh, all cordial by the way, but I got, I've gotten some, some healthy debates.

• 5:26Stephanie Harlowe?

  In person, people know how to behave.

• 5:27Derrick Levasseur?

  They're awesome. Yeah, they were great. They were fine. We were respectfully disagreeing over our dinner. But it was fun. It was fun. I enjoy it. It was fun. Uh, people are allowed to have different opinions.

• 5:38Stephanie Harlowe?

  Of course, that's, it wouldn't be fun if they didn't.

• 5:40Derrick Levasseur?

  Exactly. So we were, we were good, but yeah, people were, uh, invested in this series. So for everyone on the cruise.

• 5:47Stephanie Harlowe?

  I too am invested.

• 5:48Derrick Levasseur?

  Here's part seven, coming your way.

• 5:51Stephanie Harlowe?

  All right. So after their police interview, both Gypsy and Nick were charged with murder and held at the Waukesha County Jail while they awaited extradition. Now the news reports coming out at that time were not talking about child abuse. They were not talking about Monchhausen by proxy. And neither were the police investigating the crime. Green County Sheriff Jim Arnott announced that they had uncovered what appeared to be a long financial fraud scheme. And the media reported details that Gypsy Rose and her mother Dee Dee had been living a secret life. According to Fox six, quote, at a news conference Tuesday, Green County Sheriff Jim Arnott said, this murder investigation has uncovered a long history of mystery and public deception citing multiple birthday dates for Gypsy on a probable cause.

• 6:36Stephanie Harlowe?

  ...statement used as the basis for charges in this murder case. Sheriff Arnott has even gone so far as to caution the public to be careful about donating to gofundme.com accounts set up to help the family. He said, quote, "We really don't know the background of this family," end quote. The Kansas City Star reported that Gypsy and Dee Dee had apparently perpetrated a longstanding deception of illness to garner money and sympathy. The Kansas City Star also reported that a prosecutor told the court that Gypsy wanted Nicholas Gotajohn to kill her mother so they could be together. Court documents added that Nick at one point had asked Gypsy if she was sure that she wanted him to kill her mother, and she said, "Yes." A woman named Anna Condrin, who had lived next door to Gypsy and Dee Dee for seven years,

• 7:20Stephanie Harlowe?

  said she was surprised because the pair had seemed like the nicest people in the world, especially Dee Dee. Content said, quote, "It was hard not to be friendly with Dee Dee. She was the nicest person in the world, always a positive attitude, very encouraging. Seemed like a loving and caring mom," end quote. Something else interesting that I read in the Springfield Newsletter was an interview with Larry Peterson, the executive director of Habitat for Humanity in Springfield. Now Peterson said he stood by Habitat's selection process, and he said it appears as though the Blanchards had met that criteria. He went on to say that it was too early to speculate on whether or not Habitat for Humanity had been duped by Gypsy and Dee Dee. So in June of 2015, Gypsy Rose pleaded not guilty to murder during her first appearance

• 8:05Stephanie Harlowe?

  in Green County. Her public defender, attorney Michael Stanfield, asked the judge if Gypsy's case could be separated from Nicholas Gotajohn's. But prosecutor Dan Patterson said he wanted the two cases tied together and tried together. So Michael Stanfield announced that he would not be using a plea of not guilty by reason of mental disease or deficit, but this did not mean he wouldn't use Gypsy's alleged Monchhausen by proxy condition in her defense. And that brings us to a June 2015 article in the Springfield Newsletter, quote, A relative told the news leader about years of strange behavior, especially related to Gypsy Blanchard's true physical state. So droves of captivated readers stepped forward like amateur sleuths with this diagnosis, Montchausen by proxy.

• 8:50Stephanie Harlowe?

  It was posted everywhere by people reading stories and making judgments about what was happening. Dr. Anne Ross, the assistant head of the psychology department at Missouri State University, has studied the syndrome, which actually has a new name, fictitious disorder, end quote. So this article goes on to say that Dr. Ross talked about how rare this disorder is, how difficult it is to diagnose. And when asked if the case of Gypsy Rose met the criteria, she said it was difficult to make that diagnosis. Quote, "For one, the victim, usually a child, isn't aware of the deception. It's unclear to this point how much Gypsy Blanchard knew about her condition, but she certainly knew she could walk."

• 9:30Stephanie Harlowe?

  Also, Ross said, "There's a similar but different disorder in which people fake issues, medical issues for financial gain. That's called malingering." And she said, quote, "I don't have the details of this case, but certainly it appears they were benefiting financially," Ross said, end quote.

• 9:48Derrick Levasseur?

  Makes me feel good to know we covered a lot of this. Seems we were on the right track.

• 9:51Stephanie Harlowe?

  It's interesting because the first news articles, all the, what the media was talking about at first wasn't like, oh, Gypsy was a victim. It was, this was a scheme perpetrated by both Gypsy and Dee Dee. And then even Dr. Anne Ross is like, well, fictitious disorder is so, so, so difficult to diagnose, so I can't diagnose this. But it does appear that they were benefiting financially, which would be closer to the malingering.

• 10:15Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah.

• 10:15Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yes. And, and like I said, the first people that start talking about, could it be Montchausen, aren't like really medical professionals. It's just these amateur sleuths, the general public, looking at these true crime cases and making determinations and making theories about what they believe happened.

• 10:31Derrick Levasseur?

  Yep. Yeah, no, it's a. It is subjective and obviously now in hindsight Gypsy's playing this up and saying this is what happened and a lot of people are taking her at her word and there is some video to support it. I I I've voiced my opinions on it. I don't want to be redundant. I do believe that Gypsy was abused. To what extreme? I don't know. I'm not going to sit here and say that I I'm a a an expert on what was going on in Gypsy Rose's life. We weren't there. I don't know. But there is some video evidence that suggests that as a parent myself, there was opportunities to step in and say this is wrong and we shouldn't be doing this. And I'm the adult in this situation and I'm here to tell you as your parent, this is not acceptable. And she didn't do that. So there was something going

• 11:16Derrick Levasseur?

  on there. To what extreme? I don't know. I do question some of the things that Gypsy said after the murders because it would be very easy to take a true story and embellish it for the sake of defense. And it's not, that's not specific to Gypsy Rose. That's a lot of offenders that we come across. There's always an explanation as to why they did it. Not even just for murder.

• 11:38Stephanie Harlowe?

  Of course, of course. An explanation to them, right?

• 11:40Derrick Levasseur?

  Their justification for why they did it.

• 11:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  Their motive, yeah.

• 11:44Derrick Levasseur?

  You know, this is something that I think pulls on the heartstrings of a lot of people, understandably so, because people who are listening and watching this case and watching our show, they have experienced true cases of child abuse, or maybe even abuse in adulthood, maybe domestic violence. And so when they hear about a victim and people doubting her her accounts of what happened, I'm sure it's it's tough for them to hear that because they may have been in a similar situation where they've reported something and weren't believed. So I can understand.

• 12:12Stephanie Harlowe?

  See, for me, I feel like it would be the opposite. Like, people who had experienced child abuse on par with what Gypsy is describing, and then knowing that they grew into adults and did not murder their parent, you know, and to look at Gypsy and be like, you know, we all went through it. We, I went through it too. But at the end of the day, murder is illegal. So it doesn't matter whether you want to call it the motive or the justification, murder is illegal. And I knew enough to know that that was the case. And I didn't do that. You didn't have to do that either. And you're making all of us look bad, kind of thing.

• 12:45Derrick Levasseur?

  Definitely two schools of thought on it. I could tell you that. And it goes back to the crime crews, right? Because I'm on there and these arguments are the ones that we're having. These are the debates we're having. And as much as I push one direction, They pushed just as hard the other. So that's why this case is so polarizing. I think the reason we're covering it is because a lot of people, even to this day, are still talking about it. And they're talking about it for the reasons you just mentioned, coupled with other things as well. It's not because Gypsy was famous or anything beforehand. It's because of also how heinous the murder was itself. I didn't realize that in her last moments that Dee Dee was calling out for, in my opinion, the same person who was responsible for her murder. I mean, that's horrific.

• 13:29Derrick Levasseur?

  So I didn't know those details and now knowing them and as we've covered the case, it just, I can understand why people are so enamored by this entire investigation.

• 13:38Stephanie Harlowe?

  When you were talking about, you know, the abuse that Gypsy claimed after the murder.

• 13:45Derrick Levasseur?

  Correct, yeah.

• 13:46Stephanie Harlowe?

  I don't believe that happened.

• 13:47Derrick Levasseur?

  I know you don't.

• 13:48Stephanie Harlowe?

  I don't believe that happened.

• 13:49Derrick Levasseur?

  Nobody here does, nobody watching or listening.

• 13:50Stephanie Harlowe?

  I don't believe that she was tied to a table. I don't believe she was chained to her bed. I don't believe she was punched and hit and all of these things because you're sitting in the police station. You and your boyfriend have been caught. You know very well what you just did. And you know, you're smart enough to know that the police might figure it out. Cause they're talking to Nick Odejan and we all know he's not the epitome of, you know, resilience, okay? So they're gonna, they're gonna grind him down. He's going to tell them that you were the one who planned this. It's the perfect time now before he does that to be like, listen, not sit there and bullshit everybody. I loved my mother. She was my best friend. She was ever, yeah, she was horrible to me.

• 14:36Stephanie Harlowe?

  She beat me. She chained me to a table. She chained me to the bed. This is when you say it, not after you've been caught, arrested, and they know everything. Because then it just seems like you're adding on details to make it look worse than it was. Now that you're taking a self-defense stance, when when you were first interviewed by the police, you're like, my mother's amazing. Even telling Nick Odejan, my mother's amazing. She was the best mother ever. She never told Nick Odejan that she was hit, beat, abused, any of this. So you're telling me that you told Nick Odejan everything else? That you were forced to be in a wheelchair, that you were forced to have a feeding tube? But you failed to mention that your mother was beating the crap out of you and chaining you to the table? You never told him that? I don't believe that happened. I don't.

• 15:18Derrick Levasseur?

  And I don't think you're the only person that feels that way.

• 15:20Stephanie Harlowe?

  What do you feel?

• 15:21Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, I don't agree with you, but that's.

• 15:23Stephanie Harlowe?

  You don't. You think she was beat and chained to the table and she didn't tell the police about it and instead told the police, knowing her mother's dead and there's nothing that your mother can do to you anymore. So you can't say you're scared to come forward and tell the truth. She said to the police and said, my mother's my best friend. I love her. I would never hurt her.

• 15:40Derrick Levasseur?

  There's multiple questions in there. If you're asking me if that would have been the time to disclose that information, completely agree with you. Completely agree with you. And I'll even to stay on your side for a second. I don't know if it's more compelling to me that she didn't say it to the detectives. I actually think it's more compelling that none of this was mentioned in those text messages that we went over extensively last week. To me, that's the moment where when you're talking about the motive for killing her, you would reemphasize to the person who's going to be stabbing your mother. This is why you're doing it. And she did emphasize why he was doing it. It was for quote unquote, them to be together.

• 16:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  This is life with me on the line.

• 16:19Derrick Levasseur?

  That's it. There was no mention of you're saving me. So to me, that is the most compelling argument.

• 16:26Stephanie Harlowe?

  There was no mention of, hey, um, you know, if she finds you in the house, run. But also understand that I'll probably be locked and chained to my bed again for another two weeks.

• 16:36Derrick Levasseur?

  No mention of that. And to me, that is the strongest argument.

• 16:39Stephanie Harlowe?

  Cause she never told him this stuff. He said that she's never told him that her mother abused her physically chained her to the bed, et cetera.

• 16:45Derrick Levasseur?

  So to wrap this up, I believe there was some level of child abuse. To what level? I don't know. And I don't think we'll ever know. There's always that three sides to every story. Well, here, that's not the case. There's two because it's Gypsy and the truth. And we don't have Dee Dee's side. But this is what I will say, and this is me agreeing with you. Regardless of what child abuse occurred, there is no evidence that Gypsy was in fear of Dee Dee or more of these incidences happening. She never mentioned it as the reason behind any of this. So to that argument that you're making, it would be suggested that maybe the child abuse wasn't that extreme. As she has proclaimed, because if it was, I would think she would have mentioned that

• 17:30Derrick Levasseur?

  somewhere in these DMs and text messages that were not meant to be seen by us. So the fact that it wasn't mentioned, I do think leans more toward you when you're talking about a spectrum of violence, if it's one to 10, maybe it's more closer to the three, four range than what she's conveying. Because if it weren't, if that wasn't the case, I think there would have been some mention of that throughout the communications between her and Nicholas Goda John. How's that sound?

• 17:56Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yes, I do. I just want to be very, like, I don't say she wasn't abused.

• 18:01Derrick Levasseur?

  I'm not saying.

• 18:02Stephanie Harlowe?

  Obviously, this is not a normal childhood.

• 18:05Derrick Levasseur?

  Right, no.

• 18:06Stephanie Harlowe?

  And she would have no control and no say in how she was raised from the time she was a baby.

• 18:11Derrick Levasseur?

  Right.

• 18:11Stephanie Harlowe?

  But do I think she was punched, hit, chained to the table? No, I don't, because none of that ever was told to a single living soul until after she was on the line for murder. And whatever you say after you are caught and charged with murder, that was never said to anybody before? And I'm not just saying publicly said, I mean, nobody. None of her friends, Nick Goda John, nobody come out and be like, oh yeah, this is, yeah, this definitely happened because she said it did. I don't trust it. That's all I'm saying, because now you're defending yourself.

• 18:43Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, that's, that's the thing. And I, I had made this argument multiple times where I think anybody with a functioning brain would approach her statements now with some level of skepticism because of the environment they're being set in. She's actively defending herself from a murder, a charge.

• 18:58Stephanie Harlowe?

  And that's all I want from you guys out there. You can admit that she had a really troubled, toxic, and damaging childhood. A hundred percent, there's evidence of that. But you also have to look at her statements made after the murder with skepticism because she is a known liar. And I don't say that in an insulting way. She's a self.

• 19:20Derrick Levasseur?

  Of course not.

• 19:20Stephanie Harlowe?

  She's a self-proclaimed known liar. She's said it. I didn't know if I should go into the parole board and just lie and tell them what they wanted to hear, you know? So she said it years later. So that's all I'm saying. Let's take a quick break.

• 19:32Derrick Levasseur?

  We're going to take a break so you guys can comment down below how much you hate us. Thank you. Go for it. We'll be right back.

• 19:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay, so as I had mentioned previously, the Greene County Prosecutor, Dan Patterson, he wanted to try Gypsy and Nick together, right? Her attorney was like, huh, can we separate these? Which we know that people like to do that. And, um, and the prosecutor, Dan Patterson, was like, no, I want them tried together. Now, in your experience, Derek, what does it usually mean when the DA or the prosecutor wants these defendants who have maybe elaborated a plot together, tried, tried together in the same trial?

• 20:16Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, I mean, I, I personally have never had this happen to me before. It's always been separate. But my takeaway, as you asked me that question, would be he feels they're both equally culpable. He doesn't want one getting a better sweetheart deal than the other. He wants whatever one did, it's the other. If one might have held the knife, but the other one plotted it, it's a conspiracy charge. Therefore, even if Gypsy wasn't holding the knife, she doesn't want her getting a better deal than Nicholas Goodejohn. The prosecutor wants the jury to look at them as equal partners. It doesn't matter who was the one who actively participated in the murder itself. These two go hand in hand, and without each other, the murder doesn't happen. He doesn't want them being separated. That's my, that's my hunch.

• 20:54Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yes, and I agree. I would, I would definitely agree that that's why a prosecutor would want that. And this is a decision he's making after he has the interrogations, after they've been arrested, after he's seen the messages, after he's seen all of the details and evidence in this case. But then suddenly, in July of 2016, Dan Patterson made a deal with Gypsy. If she pleaded guilty to second degree murder, she would be offered a sentence of 10 years in prison, which is the minimum sentence for second degree murder in the state of Missouri. Now, in no goddamn way, shape, or form could you look at what she did, the premeditation that was involved in this, and ever, ever, ever...

• 21:35Stephanie Harlowe?

  Say that was second degree murder, ever.

• 21:37Derrick Levasseur?

  This is where you and I agree. I just think, I just said it two seconds before. I don't think she would ever have physically murdered Dee Dee herself. But I also don't think Nicholas Goode John would have ever murdered Dee Dee Blanchard if it wasn't for what Gypsy had said and manipulated him into doing it. So, one doesn't wash the hand without the other.

• 21:57Stephanie Harlowe?

  And if you do, you agree or disagree that if Nick Goode John hadn't said yes, Gypsy would have found somebody who did say yes.

• 22:02Derrick Levasseur?

  Potentially, yeah. Potentially, yeah. She would have kept going. So, yeah, I agree with you on this. This is where Nicholas Goode John's still in prison. Gypsy is not. I don't see how that happened. And we're gonna give our findings at the end. I don't want to get into that now, then there's nothing to talk about as we wrap it up. But, yeah, I just don't understand. As I sit here right now, you're telling me, after going through the six parts that we have, and knowing the two parties involved, that one is a free person and the other one's still in prison, I would say, what, what are you talking about? So I don't get it. I don't get it. I know there are mitigating circumstances, and that's what people are gonna push back, back on. But we'll get there at the end and we can have that conversation.

• 22:39Stephanie Harlowe?

  So Patterson, the prosecutor, he later told the Springfield News Leader that he believed he could have secured a first degree murder conviction for Gypsy, and she would have spent the rest of her life in prison. But he ended up feeling that that was unfair because of what Gypsy had suffered through at the hands of her mother. He said, quote, "When you look at this case, it's a murder, and it's a first degree murder. But it's also one of the most extraordinary and unusual cases we've seen," end quote. Mike Stanfield, who was Gypsy's defense lawyer, he told reporters that he would have gone to trial using the abuse as a defense. But when asked if he believed he could convince a jury that Gypsy's actions were justified, he was like,

• 23:24Stephanie Harlowe?

  I mean, I think that her taking the deal was the best move.

• 23:28Stephanie Harlowe?

  Meaning he didn't really think that he could convince a jury that her actions were justified.

• 23:33Derrick Levasseur?

  And I agree.

• 23:34Stephanie Harlowe?

  And I agree too.

• 23:34Derrick Levasseur?

  I think those DMs would have crushed her.

• 23:36Stephanie Harlowe?

  And not only that, but all of this extreme abuse that she was referring to, which I keep bringing up, the hitting and the slapping and the punching and tying her to the table and chaining her to the bed. There's no evidence of that. So you can't even introduce that into a trial when you have nothing to back it up with.

• 23:51Derrick Levasseur?

  Menendez Brothers, would you agree that they were more abused than Gypsy?

• 23:54Stephanie Harlowe?

  Oh, that's a slippery slope. I can't even believe you asked me that. I don't know. I don't know, because I don't think, I don't think any of us know the extent of how much they were abused or how much she was abused.

• 24:03Derrick Levasseur?

  But I say this because at least their version of what happened is horrific, right?

• 24:08Stephanie Harlowe?

  And their version of what happened is backed up with photographs.

• 24:10Derrick Levasseur?

  And what happened to them?

• 24:12Stephanie Harlowe?

  I mean, they had, there was, yeah, exactly.

• 24:14Derrick Levasseur?

  Where are they right now?

• 24:15Stephanie Harlowe?

  Life in prison. And there was aunts and uncles who were like, yeah, we saw Jose beat the shit out of these kids with our own eyes.

• 24:21Derrick Levasseur?

  That's what I'm saying. They literally said, hey, you can't do that. And Jose was like, well, then get out. So my point being, it's not about who was abused more. Their versions of what happened to them at the hands of their father, just even when you were going through that, was horrible to listen to. And to hear how emotional they were when describing what had happened to them. Both guilty, first degree murder. Right? That's what the jury said in California.

• 24:45Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, and this is Springfield, Missouri, yeah.

• 24:47Derrick Levasseur?

  I agree with Mike, where if this had gone to trial, it would have been an uphill battle, and when they got offered this deal, they probably couldn't sign it fast enough.

• 24:58Stephanie Harlowe?

  Oh, yeah.

• 24:58Derrick Levasseur?

  Sign that, Gypsy. Sign it right now before they change their mind.

• 25:01Stephanie Harlowe?

  Why did they get offered the deal, though? That is the question I keep coming back to.

• 25:04Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, they said it. He just told you why.

• 25:05Stephanie Harlowe?

  He did. He said, based on what she'd been through. But once again, her own defense attorney doesn't think, based on what she went through, that the jury would even believe that or believe it was, it made her actions justifiable. And that's why he's like, I think her taking the deal was the best move for her.

• 25:18Derrick Levasseur?

  I think, I think at the time, he was just maybe concerned that

• 25:23Derrick Levasseur?

  he didn't want them both to walk. And so he figured, hey, I get one for 10 and one for life. That's better than two for nothing.

• 25:30Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, that's really, that's monstrous, honestly. Like, you just, okay, you sacrifice Nick Gode, and like, I'm not sitting here, I'm not Team Nick Godejohn, by the way. I'm not like, he should be walking free. I don't think that. He's not a safe person if he allowed some little girl with a high pitched voice to freaking convince him to do the unspeakable. So you're not a safe person either. But one is not so smart and one is devious. And the one who's not so smart ends up spending his entire life in prison while the devious one gets out to deviate some more.

• 26:01Derrick Levasseur?

  Lot of people in the comments agree with that sentiment too, that listening to Gypsy during that interrogation, she seemed pretty sharp.

• 26:07Stephanie Harlowe?

  She is.

• 26:09Derrick Levasseur?

  She seemed pretty sharp. I don't think I anticipated that.

• 26:12Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 26:12Derrick Levasseur?

  I wasn't expecting that. And then I started hearing her speak and correcting the detective when he tried to slide a certain type of phrasing in there. She's like, no, it's not what I said.

• 26:19Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, he's like, why did Nick do it? I didn't say he did.

• 26:21Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 26:22Stephanie Harlowe?

  I didn't say he did, bitch.

• 26:22Derrick Levasseur?

  No, she was on the ball.

• 26:23Stephanie Harlowe?

  She's like, yeah, she's like, you gotta wake up earlier in the day to get Gypsy Rose Blanchard.

• 26:27Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, she was on the ball. You with your accents, Jesus, how many do you have?

• 26:32Stephanie Harlowe?

  Which one? No, that's not an accent, it's a voice.

• 26:34Derrick Levasseur?

  That was like a southern, I don't know.

• 26:36Stephanie Harlowe?

  I didn't say he did, officer. No, I don't know.

• 26:40Derrick Levasseur?

  No, you had more of like a, like a Southern Belle.

• 26:42Stephanie Harlowe?

  I don't know, it just went right. Oh, like a, like a Vivian Lee in Gone with the Wind?

• 26:46Derrick Levasseur?

  Sure.

• 26:47Stephanie Harlowe?

  You know, Scarlett O'Hara? No? Nothing? You got nothing?

• 26:49Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, nothing.

• 26:50Stephanie Harlowe?

  If you haven't seen Gone with the Wind yet, I don't know what to do with you.

• 26:52Derrick Levasseur?

  Haven't.

• 26:52Stephanie Harlowe?

  All right.

• 26:53Derrick Levasseur?

  Okay.

• 26:54Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay, so on the subject of fraud, which we know the Greene County Sheriff believed both Gypsy and Dee Dee were involved in, the prosecutor, Dan Pedersen, said he felt Dee Dee was primarily responsible for it, which is like a, yeah, no dog kind of moment, but. All right, so the Nicholas Gotchon trial began on November 13th, 2018. We don't need to talk a lot about this because we know what happened, but here are the highlights. One of the prosecutors, Nathan Chapman, dove into the opening statements telling the jury that Nicholas loved Gypsy so much, he was more than willing to remove the one thing that she told him stood between them, which was her mother. In their opening statement, defense attorney Andrew Mead described Nick's rough start in life, the fact that he was born with the umbilical cord wrapped around his neck, being diagnosed

• 27:36Stephanie Harlowe?

  with autism in elementary school, a lack of emotional support at home from his parents, being chronically online as a teen, which meant that the majority of his peers were also online-only friends.

• 27:47Stephanie Harlowe?

  And because of Nick's autism diagnosis, he saw the world differently. And due to his low IQ and cognitive disabilities, Nick would be unable to form the necessary mental state to commit first degree murder. Then Gypsy Rose herself testified, telling the judge and jury that the plan to kill her mother was hers, but she only did it because she thought it was her only way out of a life of captivity and abuse. She claimed that her entire life, Dee Dee had hit her, punched her, kept her prisoner, and starved her. Gypsy then followed this up by saying that she had put forward a second plan in which her mother would not have had to have died, but Nicholas rejected this plan. What was this plan, you might ask?

• 28:28Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, Gypsy said that it was either her mother died, or Gypsy would be impregnated by Nicholas Goten. Allegedly, Nick did want Gypsy to get pregnant, but his mother wouldn't let him, so it had to be the murder plan. I don't really believe this either, because it's not like you need your mother's permission to impregnate somebody. So if Nick wanted to get Gypsy pregnant, and he knew that this would mean he didn't have to kill Dee Dee, then why wouldn't you just have gotten together? And instead of killing Dee Dee, spent these three days

• 28:59Derrick Levasseur?

  Oops.

• 29:00Stephanie Harlowe?

  You know, fucking like rabbits, and then you get pregnant. Okay, so like, it's not like your mom's gonna be, you know, watching you and following you to Springfield and being like, hey, you can't do this. You could have just done it, and that would mean that you didn't have to murder somebody.

• 29:13Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, I mean, unless there's something that we don't have access to, whether it's the other forms of communication that they were using, or something like that, to document that this was an alternative, it doesn't seem to have a lot of weight to me. Because what we do have is this plot for murder that was very detailed and descriptive as far as what they were gonna do, how they were gonna do it, and when they were gonna do it. So if there's this other version that they're putting forward, there's no evidence of it, at least from what we've seen during the series. And if there is, let us know. But I would think that if there was, we would have documentation of it, and more than likely it would have been mentioned in one of these DMs, in one of these conversations.

• 29:53Stephanie Harlowe?

  Remember, there was a time where Gypsy was like, oh, she missed her period, stuff like that, and she was talking about she might be pregnant. Nicholas wasn't like, oh, great, we don't have to kill your mom now, you're pregnant, you know?

• 30:03Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, I mean, listen, it might have been talked about in passing. But I can also see it being a version where there was an if Gypsy's the one steering the ship, and I believe that she was, right? It could have been a feeler thing, right? She's it's part of this kind of grooming, this manipulation. You start off easy. Hey, how much can I get this person to do? It may be as simple as trying to get him to the bathroom to have sex. Like little things like this to try to see how compliant and and how receptive he will be to her, her wishes, her demands. And so you start with that and then maybe you go to, you know, I could just get pregnant. Maybe that'll get her to like you. And yeah, yeah, I'm down for that, too. And then it goes to this extreme.

• 30:48Derrick Levasseur?

  So there may have been a brief conversation about it, but I don't think it was a true

• 30:55Derrick Levasseur?

  actual intention where they were like, you know what? Let's go that route. And then, oh, you know what? People are stopping us from doing it. So we can't, let's just, let's just jump over to murder because that'll be more socially acceptable than getting pregnant, quote unquote, accidentally. So it doesn't hold a lot of weight to me. I think we'd have more evidence of it. And I think the defense would have been laying that case out even before it went to trial, if that were true. Now, and that said, it doesn't mean that it didn't happen. Like I said, it's very likely they did have a conversation about getting pregnant. And based on what we've seen in the text messages, I'm sure they talked about that. They were.

• 31:29Stephanie Harlowe?

  They always did. They they talked about having kids. We know, remember Nick's mom said when she was talking to the police that Gypsy was posting about it on Facebook.

• 31:37Derrick Levasseur?

  Right.

• 31:37Stephanie Harlowe?

  You know, so I don't think.

• 31:39Derrick Levasseur?

  There is truth to it, but not as far as it being a plan.

• 31:41Stephanie Harlowe?

  There's truth to she wanted to get pregnant and have kids. She always, every time she's with a dude, she's like, we're gonna have kids soon, like every single time.

• 31:49Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah.

• 31:49Stephanie Harlowe?

  So I think that is just something. I think that a lot of people who have tumultuous and toxic childhoods who don't have the best. Or most secure relationship with their caregivers. They often do want to become parents because it is this promise of unconditional love, which you never felt you received in childhood.

• 32:11Derrick Levasseur?

  That's sad, sad.

• 32:12Stephanie Harlowe?

  It is very sad, dude, it's very sad. But it's not a reason to want to have a baby with just the first person that, you know, winks at you.

• 32:20Derrick Levasseur?

  But I think you're right. That's more likely the reason than, oh, let's have a baby because that way we can be together and we don't have to kill Dee Dee. Doesn't seem like that was heavily discussed.

• 32:29Stephanie Harlowe?

  Uh-uh.

• 32:30Derrick Levasseur?

  Maybe mentioned in passing, but not talked about like the premeditated murder was discussed throughout those text messages.

• 32:37Stephanie Harlowe?

  Now, if she had said, I wanted to have children with Nick, but I wanted my mother to be dead because I didn't want my mother to hurt my children the way that she had hurt me, that I could buy. That I could buy. But to say, oh, it was either we got pregnant or Dee Dee died, that I don't, it doesn't make any sense. There's no correlation because you can always just get pregnant anyways. Like, just do it. If that's like what it is to you and it means your mother doesn't have to die, then that's what it is. Like, it's just, yeah, I could have bought her saying Dee Dee would have been toxic to my own children, so therefore I could not move on, have a husband and have children while my mother still lived because she would have insisted on being a part of my life. She would have insisted on being a part of their lives and I didn't want her to repeat these same toxic cycles with them.

• 33:22Stephanie Harlowe?

  I would have bought that, but otherwise, no.

• 33:25Derrick Levasseur?

  No evidence of it. And if she could have gone that route and it went to trial, she might have. Let's, uh, let's take a second break. We'll be right back.

• 33:38Stephanie Harlowe?

  All right, so, once again, when asked whose idea it was to kill Dee Dee, Gypsy said, quote, at Nicholas Godejohn's trial, she said, quote, "I talked him into it," end quote. And when asked why she didn't do it herself, Gypsy said, quote, "I don't like blood. I don't like the sight of blood. I don't believe I could do it on my own," end quote. That, that, that's me, that means something to me. It literally means like, yeah, I wanted her dead, but I just didn't think I could do it myself. It wasn't something I could ever, with my own hands, do.

• 34:08Derrick Levasseur?

  And that I believe. That I definitely believe. And I, I think she did have true feelings for Nicholas, but I think she also saw him as a tool.

• 34:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  I don't think she had true feelings for Nicholas.

• 34:18Derrick Levasseur?

  As a weapon, ooh, none whatsoever.

• 34:20Stephanie Harlowe?

  None, zero.

• 34:21Derrick Levasseur?

  So you think after this happened, if she got away with it, she would have dumped him?

• 34:24Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yes.

• 34:26Derrick Levasseur?

  Interesting. You think this was a means to an end from start to finish?

• 34:30Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yes.

• 34:31Derrick Levasseur?

  No true feelings?

• 34:32Stephanie Harlowe?

  The way that she took the murder weapon, the knife, and put it in a box and sent it to Nick's house and then they were gonna get rid of it, that's exactly what she would have done to Nicholas Gotodan because he was a tool, an instrument, a weapon, just like the knife, just like a gun. And she wanted to get rid of him as soon as possible because he connected her to this horrible thing. Yes.

• 34:52Derrick Levasseur?

  Okay. Do you guys agree with Stephanie? Let us know.

• 34:56Stephanie Harlowe?

  I think she wanted to live a life without DeeDee interfering. And it wouldn't matter whether it was with Nick or any other man who would be her prince charming. Like, she would have held on to Nick as long as he served her purposes, as long as he did what she wanted. But the second she met somebody else who was, you know, more sharp or more, you know, pro Gypsy or, you know, you know what I mean? Hadn't had all these negative experiences with that like tainted the bond between them. She would have been, she would have moved on. This isn't somebody she would have been with forever. You know what I mean? Like, this wasn't somebody, it was just in that moment.

• 35:31Derrick Levasseur?

  So from the beginning, she saw him as, this is the person?

• 35:34Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, I think she knew he was the person that she could convince to do it. Yeah. I don't know. I don't think, and it's not that she didn't think she had true feelings for him. I just don't think she has really true feelings for anybody. Like, she was never taught what, what a real healthy bond and an attachment looks like. She was taught how to use and manipulate people. So that's what she does. I don't think it's even a cognizant or conscious decision. It's just how she operates.

• 36:08Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I think, I think it's tough to ever really know because only Gypsy does, right? Like, she knows, she's the only one who truly knows what her intentions were in the beginning and how she felt. If I, I'm not saying I disagree with you, but if the only other angle you could have is where they're together and it starts off where they're just curious about each other, maybe there's some feelings there and once she realizes who Nicholas is and what he's willing to do for her, the relationship evolved into something that was romantic in nature to, uh, as you mentioned, a weapon, a tool, uh, and something that she had been wanting to do for a while. And so she decided that, hey, I know what he's motivated by. He wants to be with me. He wants to have sex.

• 36:53Derrick Levasseur?

  I can use those things to get him to do what I want. And maybe there was a transition where it went from her wanting to be with him to her wanting to use him.

• 37:03Stephanie Harlowe?

  I agree, and I think that she convinced herself that she had feelings for him and that she loved him because she has to convince herself that she's a good person in this situation. But I think once she was sitting in that police station and it was very clear to her, like it's me or him. She wasn't like, okay, solidarity. She wasn't like, okay.

• 37:20Derrick Levasseur?

  She always knew that was the backup plan.

• 37:22Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, she immediately was like, it's me. It's me.

• 37:25Derrick Levasseur?

  Oh, I agree with that a hundred percent.

• 37:26Stephanie Harlowe?

  It's always me first. Yeah.

• 37:27Derrick Levasseur?

  She played this out in her head and she said, hey, if, if by chance, we get caught, I'm throwing him under the bus.

• 37:34Stephanie Harlowe?

  I'm throwing him under the bus. So man, he's, he's, Jack is not hanging on to that board anymore. Okay?

• 37:38Derrick Levasseur?

  No, he's, he can, he can be collateral damage in this. I'm okay with that.

• 37:42Stephanie Harlowe?

  I'm okay with that. Yeah.

• 37:43Derrick Levasseur?

  He can be the scapegoat. He's my plan. He is my plan B.

• 37:47Stephanie Harlowe?

  Exactly. I completely agree. But like I said, I think she convinces herself that she has these strong, these strong feelings for people. So that she doesn't feel as bad about using them.

• 37:56Derrick Levasseur?

  I would also argue that a major reason why she defended him so profusely, at least in the first part of that interrogation, I wouldn't even say profusely. She broke after a couple hours, but the fact that she defended him initially was because she knew what he knew and that it could hurt her. I don't think she was doing it for him. She was doing it for more, you know, a self-serving purpose.

• 38:16Stephanie Harlowe?

  I think she also knew that it would look terrible.

• 38:18Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. Cause she had been saying something else the whole time.

• 38:21Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. Like what's going on? She's like, he did it. I didn't do anything. Like, you know? Like it would look, it would look kind of like she's just going with whatever story is convenient. So that's why she held on. And she was consistent for a while. Now Nicholas Godean, as we know, was found guilty of first degree murder and he was sentenced to life in prison without the chance of parole. And Gypsy went off to spend a few years in prison before being allowed to move on with her life. An interesting detail that Gypsy gave us in one of the many documentaries she participated in while she was in prison was that she had developed an addiction to painkillers. She said she would often steal her mother's pain pills and this had created a dependency that on the night that her mother was murdered, Gypsy had been abusing pain medication and

• 39:03Stephanie Harlowe?

  her addiction had actually been so intense that it remained with her in prison and it got her in some trouble with a few of the other women in prison who would provide her pills that she was unable to pay for and she had to eventually call her stepmother Christie and get help and like have money sent there because she had basically ordered up all these pain pills and then the prison drug dealers came calling and she didn't have the money to pay them. So I think it's a little bit interesting that she was abusing pain medication at the time that this murder was perpetrated, but...

• 39:37Derrick Levasseur?

  Probably didn't help her decision-making skills, that's for sure.

• 39:40Stephanie Harlowe?

  Did not, did not. After the 2017 HBO documentary, Mommy Dead and Dearest aired, a man named Ken Unker wrote Gypsy a letter of support in prison and then he and Gypsy became pen pals from that moment forward. But it was more than friendship for Ken, who also visited Gypsy in prison and took the opportunity to express his true feelings. Gypsy said, quote, "He came and it was kind of a funny story, but within the first 30 minutes, he leaned over and gave me the most wonderful kiss of my whole life. The kiss he gave me was quite passionate. I looked at him and was like, I didn't even know you liked me like that. And he said, yeah, I have for a while. And I'm like, I have for a while too." End quote.

• 40:23Derrick Levasseur?

  See what you do there? See what you do there?

• 40:25Stephanie Harlowe?

  What did I do?

• 40:26Derrick Levasseur?

  You're manipulating us.

• 40:27Stephanie Harlowe?

  What did I do?

• 40:28Derrick Levasseur?

  The voices you use.

• 40:29Stephanie Harlowe?

  I didn't even realize.

• 40:30Derrick Levasseur?

  You could just read it, but no, you have to add in this like devious like...

• 40:36Derrick Levasseur?

  I don't know what you're doing there. You know what you're doing.

• 40:38Stephanie Harlowe?

  What, just sounding like a little girl?

• 40:40Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah.

• 40:41Stephanie Harlowe?

  Or Mickey Mouse.

• 40:42Derrick Levasseur?

  Oh my God, I haven't figured it out yet.

• 40:45Stephanie Harlowe?

  In October of 2018, while Gypsy was still behind bars, Ken asked her to be his wife, and she said yes. In the summer of 2019, Gypsy, who had suddenly become a celebrity influencer due to all the media buzz about her, let the world know that she and Ken were going to get married, and then they were going to wait a few years to have children, but they were definitely going to have children. Gypsy has said that Ken was her first love. He was understanding and supportive with her from day one. He was easy to talk to. But then, not long after talking about how many kids they were going to have, the engagement between Gypsy and Ken was called off. According, I know, right? Shocker. According to the internet, this happened for a multitude of reasons. The long-distance nature of it was difficult, especially when the prison that Gypsy was serving time at began limiting her phone

• 41:29Stephanie Harlowe?

  time. Also, Gypsy was young. When she and Ken became close, she still had a lot to learn about herself and about relationships. Additionally, Gypsy had become well-known in the public eye and the media, and public attention was not something that Ken wanted. So after splitting from Ken, Gypsy began chatting with Ryan Anderson, another man she met through the prison pen pal program.

• 41:53Speaker 02

  My name is Ryan Anderson, and Gypsy Rose Blanchard is my fiancee. I first learned about Gypsy watching her story. Her story, you know, just hit me, and I thought, gosh, she's cute. You know, like, one of those things where I was like, Gypsy's very cute. Tiger King was very popular at the time. And so my friend said, oh, I really want to write Tiger King. And I said, okay, well, I'll make a deal with you. I said, you write Tiger King, I'll write Gypsy Rose Blanchard. And that's what happened.

• 42:21Speaker 03

  The thing that stuck out the most about Ryan's letter is not only how genuine it came across, but also how like, how funny he is. His sense of humor was great, and I just vibed with that very well.

• 42:36Speaker 02

  She's talked to a lot of people, you know, but she chose a Louisiana boy for a reason, I guess. And, but, I made her laugh, and that was the most important thing. Ryan and I, our relationship is just, it's

• 42:48Speaker 03

  goofy. It's a little bit of everything. I think he complements me really well. He has more of a softer side. He calms. Almost like a storm that's inside my soul.

• 43:01Speaker 02

  When I heard Gypsy's story, I felt sad for her. I felt like I couldn't judge her for that. I understood why she did it. You know, Gypsy felt like this was the only way out. I know Gypsy's the one because I feel it. You can feel that connection with somebody that you had.

• 43:21Speaker 02

  I do believe I am the prince charming that Gypsy's been waiting for her whole life. I really do believe that.

• 43:29Speaker 02

  When Gypsy gets out, I plan on supporting her and doing what a husband's supposed to do was to his wife. I'm a sixth grade social studies teacher. So like, you know, I'm a teacher. I do okay. Part of me thinks that sometimes Gypsy might need saving. But at the same time, I need saving too. She saved me as much as I saved her. She deserves the best. Especially with everything that's happened.

• 43:52Derrick Levasseur?

  So Stephanie, we can see each other, obviously. So we're watching the video. I'm watching it with you guys for the first time. And she's just, she's like your face while you're watching it. And it's like.

• 44:08Stephanie Harlowe?

  You're cracking me up. I can't take it. I just look back from the clip and I see you and you're like.

• 44:15Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. I don't really know.

• 44:18Stephanie Harlowe?

  You've got this little smile on your face.

• 44:20Derrick Levasseur?

  I don't really know. I mean, listen. Ryan was his name. Ryan Anderson. I don't know, man. I don't know what to say without getting myself canceled. It's just one of those things where. I don't get it. I don't get it why you would choose to write to someone in prison, the whole thing. Especially if you don't know them, you know, it seems a little odd to me to.

• 44:40Stephanie Harlowe?

  Because his friend was gonna write to Tiger King.

• 44:42Derrick Levasseur?

  That's what.

• 44:42Stephanie Harlowe?

  And so he was gonna write to Gypsy.

• 44:44Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, it's, to me, it's a little odd. I think we can do better. I think we can do better and I wouldn't be personally writing to anybody who's in prison for murder. But, you know, to each their own and I will say this. I guess I will say this, if they're happy with each other, regardless of what I think about Gypsy, you know, I'm. Good, good for them, I guess. Good for them. I don't, I know you're going through the timeline. I don't know if this is still the person she's with now. Because I know there's been some, you know, development, so we won't go there. But as far as this particular clip. She was getting a lot of emails and one thing I will say about the photos if you're watching on YouTube, it is tough to see those. I can separate the two because it doesn't appear

• 45:28Derrick Levasseur?

  that she was actually sick. Some people believe she was, but to see her in those positions in the hospital, in her bed with the oxygen tank, the shaved head, no kid should have to go through that. No kid. At the time when those photos were taken, she was innocent. And so-

• 45:45Stephanie Harlowe?

  But arguably, she may have also been, she may have also been sick.

• 45:49Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, that's, that's what I'm gonna say. Here we go. That's the other side to it.

• 45:52Stephanie Harlowe?

  Why the hell, why the hell can't these doctors come out and confirm or deny one way or the other? They have not done that. They haven't come out and been like, she 100% wasn't sick, are bad. And they haven't come out and been like, she was sick and she needed this medical treatment. I feel like because either way, either, either way they go, they're gonna get backlash from somebody, right?

• 46:11Derrick Levasseur?

  That's, that's the problem. And what we just described right there is I think what a lot of people who watch the series, they're gonna go through because you're either gonna watch those photos and have some type of sympathy for Gypsy, or you're gonna watch those photos and say, okay, well, that's a girl who was sick and needed medical attention. Point blank. So where you fall on it, that's up to you. Let's take another break. We'll be right back.

• 46:41Stephanie Harlowe?

  Alright, so yes, now Gypsy and Ryan are together. They are in love, even though she was just in love with Ken and they were engaged, but now she's in love with Ryan. And because of the COVID-19 pandemic, Gypsy and Ryan couldn't meet in person until July of 2021, but Ryan stuck with her through all of this. She told People Magazine, quote, "We met in 2020 when the pandemic was really, really strong and I had a lot of emotional ups and downs because of COVID. Unfortunately, it put the prison in a position to where it restricted our freedom even more. So Ryan has seen me through some really good times, some really hard times." I would say that he is probably the most compassionate soul I've ever met and the most patient, God knows. He's so patient with me because I could be a little bit of a-

• 47:26Stephanie Harlowe?

  A lot to handle. I could be a handful, an emotional handful. We've been able to build this emotional bond that within two seconds of talking on the phone, he knows my emotions and he'll be like, are you okay? Do you want to talk about it? So I'm thankful that I have a man that is open enough with his own emotions. So I could let my emotions flow, end quote. She turns relationships, every relationship, even after she's been in prison for what she did. She turns every relationship to this fantasy thing where it's like larger than life, soul connections, universe, you know, twin flame. And just within a few seconds of being on the phone with me, he can tell my emotional state. Yeah, through your voice, dude.

• 48:08Stephanie Harlowe?

  Like, yes, you probably answer the phone like, hello, sometimes? And he's like, what's wrong? Or if you don't, you're like, hello? He's like, oh, you're fine. It's not like you have some intrinsic, universal connection. That's not what a true loving relationship is. A true loving relationship isn't like sparks flying and, oh, we're soulmates and he can just tell my emotional state within a minute of being on the phone with me. No, it's like hard work and making the decision to choose each other every single day. And it's not flowery and it's not love notes and fireworks. It's a lot more boring and basic than that. And that's why you'll see that it seems she can't really sustain a relationship.

• 48:52Stephanie Harlowe?

  So the happy couple obtained a marriage license on June 27th, 2022. And a month later, they got married in a prison ceremony with no guests. And once again, Gypsy wasted no time talking about how she and Ryan were going to have children together. But once Gypsy was out of prison, her relationship with Ryan became the center point of a Lifetime docu-series called Life After Lockup. And this is very much a reality show.

• 49:21Stephanie Harlowe?

  Like a kind of, I don't know. It's very much structured, like a very, and you know, we've seen a few clips, like a very dramatic, sensational sort of reality show that focuses on Gypsy's relationship with Ryan. And it kind of showed us all how a long-distance phone relationship can't really be an indicator of compatibility. It can't be an indicator for what a relationship will be like once that physical distance is closed and once the mundane everyday sets in. Because as it turns out, it seemed like Gypsy didn't really like Ryan at all. And her heart still remained with an ex-boyfriend, who was her real and true prince charming, not Nicholas Godejohn, but Ken Onker.

• 50:06Stephanie Harlowe?

  So when Gypsy was released, she shot up to basically social media stardom, with all of her social accounts reaching millions of followers, and Gypsy posting things several times a day.

• 50:17Speaker 03

  God, it's so freaking bright out here.

• 50:24Speaker 03

  I think I may jump in the water in a little bit.

• 50:32Speaker 03

  Thank y'all for the roses.

• 50:36Speaker 03

  Aw, thank you, Thea? Is that Thea? Thank you, Brittany.

• 50:42Derrick Levasseur?

  How the times have changed. Gypsy had a glow up, too.

• 50:47Stephanie Harlowe?

  If you say so.

• 50:47Derrick Levasseur?

  She had a glow up there, come on. Good for her. You get it, girl. You do your thing.

• 50:53Stephanie Harlowe?

  Um, yeah.

• 50:54Derrick Levasseur?

  I'm just pissing you off now.

• 50:56Stephanie Harlowe?

  She's also pregnant in this clip.

• 50:57Derrick Levasseur?

  She's glowing.

• 50:58Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yes, she's glowing. I think this was, this was right around the time she put her baby registry online and everybody bought her all her baby stuff.

• 51:07Derrick Levasseur?

  Let her live.

• 51:08Stephanie Harlowe?

  And then when she saw, and then when she saw that everybody had purchased her everything on her registry on top of e-begging, she added more things. E-begging, yes. That's what she's doing. Thank you for the roses. Thank you for the roses.

• 51:22Derrick Levasseur?

  Wait, is e-begging a thing?

• 51:23Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yes, she's e-begging, dude. People are just giving her money. No, it's an actual thing.

• 51:28Derrick Levasseur?

  I've never heard that, that's hilarious.

• 51:30Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, you gotta spend more time on TikTok, because lots of e-begging. up over there.

• 51:34Derrick Levasseur?

  E begging.

• 51:35Stephanie Harlowe?

  Gypsy Rose is just one of them.

• 51:36Derrick Levasseur?

  Notes.

• 51:37Stephanie Harlowe?

  Really? You've never heard this?

• 51:39Derrick Levasseur?

  No, never heard that.

• 51:40Stephanie Harlowe?

  Oh, yeah, she's e-begging.

• 51:43Derrick Levasseur?

  E begging. That's a good one. All right.

• 51:45Stephanie Harlowe?

  So she's on here. She's just sitting by the pool in a bikini like, oh, it's hot out here. Hmm. Thank you for the roses. Like, it's so weird. You just got released from prison after murdering your mother. Like, it's so weird. It's weird.

• 52:00Derrick Levasseur?

  It is. It is. It is tough to when you say it like that to think.

• 52:03Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 52:04Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah.

• 52:04Stephanie Harlowe?

  And then she's putting her baby registry. It gets bought out and she's like, oh, everybody bought me everything that I want on my registry. Let me add more stuff. So they can buy me more stuff. It's just, it's gross. It's gross. So now the Lifetime series showed Gypsy and Ryan becoming progressively disenchanted with each other. And I don't mean to say that because it seemed like Ryan, Ryan would have been, and I'm not saying whether he's a good person or a bad person. I don't know him, right? I don't know what the relationship was like behind closed doors, but from what we saw outwardly, he probably would, you know, been pretty much ride or die for her till the end. Um, there was this weird fixation. She was a public figure. You know, his friends writing Tiger King, he's writing Gypsy, she writes back, he's stunned.

• 52:48Stephanie Harlowe?

  He's a social studies teacher, which is kind of weird. And, and now he's gonna, he's gonna, he's married to Gypsy Rose.

• 52:53Derrick Levasseur?

  Wait, why is it, why is it weird that he's a social studies teacher?

• 52:56Stephanie Harlowe?

  I don't know. Like, I feel like if I had a-

• 52:58Derrick Levasseur?

  I feel like there's gonna be some social studies teachers in the comments feeling attacked right now. You better take that back.

• 53:03Stephanie Harlowe?

  No, I like social studies teachers.

• 53:05Derrick Levasseur?

  The way you framed it, it sounded like, oh, he's a social studies teacher, which is weird.

• 53:08Stephanie Harlowe?

  I'm saying if he was one of my children's social studies teachers, and then I found out that he's writing some murderer in prison and then bringing her home to marry him, I'd be like, I don't really know if I can trust the judgment of this person. And I don't really know if I want him teaching my children. Right? That's where I'm at. I think being a social studies teacher is awesome. In fact, I would love to marry a social studies teacher.

• 53:31Derrick Levasseur?

  There we go.

• 53:32Stephanie Harlowe?

  But I don't want my social studies teacher or the social studies teacher of my child.

• 53:36Derrick Levasseur?

  Engaging with-

• 53:38Stephanie Harlowe?

  Pen paling with Gypsy Rose Blanchard, a convicted murderer.

• 53:44Stephanie Harlowe?

  And then bringing her back home to the town where me and my children live to be his wife.

• 53:49Derrick Levasseur?

  I think that his, his- That you're right in your assessment where his his way of thinking is questionable. His rationale behind doing certain things, his judgment, yeah.

• 54:00Stephanie Harlowe?

  Judgment's off, in my opinion. Alright, so suddenly Gypsy like kinda doesn't wanna be with Ryan anymore. Even though it's just been a few months that she's been out of prison, right? Once again, having a long-distance phone conversation when you're in prison and there's just women around you and you don't have a lot of options, that's fine, but when she gets out, what's happening? Well, there's all these sorts of people in her DMs, other men, you know, talking about her. Like you said, she had a glow up, quote-unquote, whatever the hell that means. Um, which she, she doesn't look the same as the Gypsy Rose we see in the pictures with the Coke bottle glasses and the shaved head. She looks like a completely different person now. So there's other men in her DMs and now she's suddenly like, ah, you know, I, did I choose this Ryan guy just cuz I didn't have a lot of options?

• 54:44Stephanie Harlowe?

  But not only that, she's talking to some people from her past.

• 54:49Speaker 03

  Are you happy?

• 54:50Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 54:54Speaker 04

  I don't know why you think I'm not. And all of a sudden now you're not.

• 55:01Speaker 03

  Maybe I'm not.

• 55:02Speaker 04

  Uh, okay.

• 55:09Speaker 04

  Tell me why.

• 55:11Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 55:15Speaker 04

  Look, I'm right here. Talk to me.

• 55:20Speaker 03

  There's just some kind of, I feel like we're different people.

• 55:24Speaker 04

  We are different people, but like not, we're not heading toward different things. Like maybe it's okay to be different, but we...

• 55:35Speaker 03

  I know.

• 55:39Speaker 04

  Well, don't call again.

• 55:42Speaker 04

  You're probably already talking to him anyway.

• 55:45Speaker 04

  You're not? Okay, then why all of a sudden are you not happy?

• 55:49Derrick Levasseur?

  Trouble in paradise.

• 55:50Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, well, when he says, "Go talk to Ken."

• 55:53Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah.

• 55:54Stephanie Harlowe?

  And she's like, "I'm not." Yes, she was. Yes, she was. Okay.

• 55:57Derrick Levasseur?

  The way she even says, she's like, "I'm not."

• 55:59Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, and he's like, "Okay, okay, you're not. Like, it's fine. Can we just be together and be happy then?"

• 56:04Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah.

• 56:05Stephanie Harlowe?

  Like, believes that she's not. You know, he knows that she's talking to him. She knows that she's talking to him. Um, and she was certainly thinking about Ken, but this conversation in the car kind of gets worse, because this is basically Gypsy breaking things off with Ryan.

• 56:21Speaker 04

  When did this happen all of a sudden? When did you feel this unhappiness? Tonight?

• 56:29Speaker 04

  Let's do marriage counseling then.

• 56:33Speaker 04

  Let's go to Ken. Let's at least try. Instead of just throwing the towel. Let's at least try.

• 56:40Speaker 03

  I mean, I'm in therapy. You're in therapy.

• 56:42Speaker 04

  I know, but I'm saying together.

• 56:45Speaker 04

  I'm saying together. We go in and we talk about this together. I don't want you to make a rash decision.

• 56:51Speaker 03

  I'm not gonna make a rash decision.

• 56:53Speaker 04

  You make rash decisions all the time.

• 56:57Speaker 04

  All the time. We were fine.

• 57:03Speaker 03

  There's times that we are fine. The majority, I guess, is fine.

• 57:08Speaker 04

  The majority. Like, right now, you're having a bad day, so therefore, you're not happy with this marriage. Not every day is gonna be hunky-dory, baby. Marriage is hard. Nobody said it was easy.

• 57:22Speaker 04

  There's gonna be days where you're like, "Ah, I just want a break," or, "Ah, I just wanna do this. Ah, I just need to get away." But you have to work at it.

• 57:32Speaker 03

  You have to want to work at it.

• 57:34Speaker 04

  Okay, right? And are you not wanting to fight for this anymore?

• 57:41Speaker 04

  No?

• 57:49Speaker 04

  Okay?

• 57:52Speaker 03

  I mean, don't think it hurt. It doesn't hurt.

• 57:54Derrick Levasseur?

  I just feel like somebody else can give you the love that you deserve. Oh, that's the worst. Someone else can give you the love you deserve. That's always the, you know, it's not you, it's me. Yeah, that's the worst. It's the worst line. In that moment, Ryan's heart was broken. So they're not together.

• 58:19Stephanie Harlowe?

  They're not together, but they were married, right? They were married. And then they're not anymore. But the point is, he's like, I thought things were fine. And she's like, yeah, I guess things for the most part are fine. And she says it like that. And the way she's saying it, it means like, yes, it's not exciting. It's not like,

• 58:38Derrick Levasseur?

  you know. Oh, no, she's over it.

• 58:40Stephanie Harlowe?

  She's over it because it's not the beginning.

• 58:42Derrick Levasseur?

  If I'm done.

• 58:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  It's not the beginning honeymoon period. You know, it's not like a constant drama thing. You're not telling him about all the shenanigans at prison. You're not talking about getting out, getting released. Before, there was always something happening. And now you're just a married woman with your husband, going through normal married people stuff, which is usually just mundane, day to day things, right? And she's over it. There's no dopamine coming to her anymore. And she hasn't created enough of a bond with him where those other bonding hormones like vasopressin and oxytocin have kicked in to replace the dopamine that you lose after the first, you know, honeymoon period of the relationship. This is very common. And so she's done. She's done with Ryan. Gypsy and Ryan announced their separation only three months after her release from prison.

• 59:28Stephanie Harlowe?

  She wrote on Facebook that she was moving in with her parents. Not long after this announcement, like very shortly after this announcement, Gypsy was spotted hanging out with her ex fiance, Ken Arker. She also claimed that Ryan was controlling and wanted to keep her away from her friends and family so that he could have her to himself. Ryan said that Gypsy wanted out of her marriage and wanted to go back to Ken and that this came out of the blue. He told the Daily Mail in April, quote, "I had no idea she still had such strong feelings for him. I haven't spoken to her, so I don't know what's going on. I'm at a loss. I'm really not doing well at all." End quote. So also, keep in mind, both Gypsy

• 1:00:08Stephanie Harlowe?

  And Ryan took to social media. So their show is still coming out after their breakup. So they break up, they separated, they're going through divorce. The show, Life After Lockup, which is like chronicling their marriage, is still coming out like as they're going through this breakup. And they're both kind of on social media, giving their own versions of what happened. Well, Gypsy's basically on social media, streaming with Ken, with Ken all the time, saying that she can't wait to change her name to his last name while she's still married. And Ryan goes on social media and he's got some things to say about her. But before we, before we go into that, let's take our last break.

• 1:00:55Stephanie Harlowe?

  We're back. So I'm going to play the clip. It's a compilation from a YouTube channel called Conspiracy. They do great work, but they put together a compilation video and I grabbed some really quick. And this is basically what Ryan thinks about Gypsy and you'll hear him sometimes and it'll seem like he's answering questions. It's because he's live and people are asking him questions. Sometimes you'll see, since Derek doesn't know about e-begging, let me give a quick rundown. Sometimes you'll see that Ryan has a cowboy hat on or he'll have some weird filter on. It's because people are paying to be able to put that filter on him as he is live.

• 1:01:29Derrick Levasseur?

  Tell you what, e-begging, it's such an insult. Jesus, it's so bad.

• 1:01:33Stephanie Harlowe?

  It's pretty bad.

• 1:01:33Derrick Levasseur?

  I feel like a lot of people e-beg.

• 1:01:35Stephanie Harlowe?

  A lot.

• 1:01:36Derrick Levasseur?

  Like even the ones that aren't doing like the Tik Tok, Tik Tok battles.

• 1:01:40Stephanie Harlowe?

  Do you remember those like that robot thing a couple of months ago where the girls would like be like robots and they'd be like, "Thank you for the roses. Thank you. Thank you. Yee-haw." So like people, do you remember these? Do you know what I'm talking about?

• 1:01:53Derrick Levasseur?

  I hope they clip you. I hope they clip you. Play this clip. Play this clip. I'm never, I'm scarred for life.

• 1:01:58Speaker 02

  Uh, Gypsy turns on that voice when she's wanting something bad. That voice does come on. She lays it on thick, which I always thought was so cute. Like, you know, when she wanted something, she would throw that voice on. And her voice stayed the same. I mean, there's nothing that was different, but it's like when she wanted something more, she would, she'd hit that voice and knew that it got me. You know, she, she knew what she was doing. Guys, I know y'all don't, I know y'all like it's baby talk or anything, but she didn't like baby talk. With it, it just, it would just, I don't know, like, she knew I love her voice. She knew I loved her voice. So, as y'all can call me weird for that, I, I thought it was unique.

• 1:02:39Speaker 02

  Like, I, I like, like, I will tell you all this, for a person to grab my heart, they have to be really unique, really different. And that's one thing about Gypsy that I always loved. I always felt like she was one of a kind. Like, you gotta imagine, her story and us, it was one of a kind. So, guys, I, I'm not gonna bash Gypsy. I still have love for Gypsy, always will. Uh, somebody did say something to me that, uh, you know, the only two people that can affect your marriage are the two people in it. I do agree to that, some, some extent. Uh, but me knowing Gypsy like I know Gypsy,

• 1:03:20Speaker 02

  you know, they, they played on her. They played on her emotions. Gypsy, Gypsy's, uh, can be influenced so much, some, somewhat. You know, Gypsy's trying to figure life out, so she, am I mad at Gypsy?

• 1:03:36Speaker 02

  Hmm. Guys, I've gone through every stage of the grief process. Uh, you know, I still have a lot of love and respect for Gypsy. I'm not gonna talk bad about Gypsy. Like, that video I did the other day, I was mad. I'm not gonna lie, I was really mad. Uh, so, uh, yeah, I saw, somebody sent me a picture of, uh, not somebody sent me a picture, I saw a clip of the pregnancy test that Gypsy put on her Instagram, but then deleted her Instagram and then said it was hacked. So, you never know with Gypsy, honestly. You never know. So, uh, if she is pregnant, I wish her the best, you know, like, I have massive love for that girl.

• 1:04:21Speaker 02

  And I still care about her. It is what it is, like, but I'm trying to move on with my life. She lies a lot. Nobody knows that more than me. I'm just joking, babe. Just joking. Gypsy, if you're watching, I'm just joking. Uh, could it be my baby? Well, I mean, like, if she is pregnant, it could have been, but if she is, guys, I don't even know, is great. If she's not, good for her. Uh, you know, like, I don't know. I think she's got the wrong dude if she is pregnant. I will say that. You know, I just being honest. Uh, I'm not a big fan of his, but whatever.

• 1:05:02Speaker 02

  Like, I sent her a text last night. Like, anytime I talk, like, here's a, here's facts, guys. Anytime that I talk about Gypsy, okay? Like, in LA, I talked about her a bunch. Um, anytime I have to talk about her. And so I did my first live last night, and I got a lot of questions about her. Anytime I have to talk about her a bunch, I start to miss her. So, last night, I decided to text her. And, of course, uh, I texted through Google Voice because, you know, right now, I mean, while she's with Ken all the time, she doesn't, she blocks me. But it's funny, when she wants to talk, she just unblocks me and calls me. But anyway.

• 1:05:44Speaker 02

  So, I, I sent a message to Google Voice saying stuff like, "I miss you." Or, actually, I said, the actual thing I said was, uh, "Do you miss me? Do you think about me?" Uh, something like, "I just wanted to let you know that I do miss you, Snuggles." And that's what I said. She said on the live that I said, uh, "I love you," but I didn't say that. But, but, uh, that isn't the only ex she's ever kept in touch with, by the way, just for the record. Yeah, just, just so y'all know, that's not the only ex. Ken was not the only ex, but that's beside the point. Cowboy Hat, thank you. I will not be one she keeps in touch with. I guarantee you, she did not want me with Gypsy at all.

• 1:06:25Speaker 02

  I had every right to be angry, guys, and it wasn't that I was mad that she was talking to her family. That wasn't what the issue was. It was that she was on friggin' camera and was telling the world.

• 1:06:39Speaker 02

  And I told her that. I said, "It has nothing to do with your family. Talk to your family by all means. Don't do it on camera." Like, that was my whole issue. It had nothing to do with her keeping her from her family. I never kept Gypsy from her family. If I was preventing that, I wouldn't have done it. But I drove her to meet her sister me.

• 1:07:03Speaker 02

  Seen a later episode, one thing I did that I still drives me crazy to this day, but I did it because her family asked. It was a low blow to me, but I did it because that's what they asked. I didn't trust her, that's why, well, guys, do y'all realize that she was cheating on me? I mean, I didn't say quit texting Ken. You know, like, guys, y'all, y'all were not in our relationship. So I love when I get comments of like, you were controlling as hell for saying this one comment. Guys, y'all, y'all don't know Gypsy like I know Gypsy. Gypsy's sweet and great, but y'all don't know her. Like, I mean, Gypsy's great, though.

• 1:07:50Speaker 02

  But y'all don't know what it's like to be with her.

• 1:07:54Speaker 02

  Uh, so, I mean, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna talk bad about Gypsy, I'm just not. Ken's there for money, I don't know. But I don't trust him, but I mean, why would I? He's not with me. I mean, he's not with me. So, you know, he, he's with my wife, my ex, soon to be ex. So, of course, I don't like him, you know?

• 1:08:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, y'all see that during the fight where she pulled out her phone? Yeah, guys, we were having a discussion and she pulled out her phone and that threw me for a loop. That, I was in the middle of it, like, why are you filming me? Like, I couldn't believe that she filmed me in the middle of that. And now, looking back, I get why she did it because like, she already had it in her mind, like, her, her mind had already switched to leave. Like, it was already like, oh, Ken's single, like, from that quote.

• 1:08:54Speaker 02

  You know, so of course, I was made out to be the bad guy from that moment. I saw one person say that I was controlling for asking who was she texting in that episode. Guys, we were, uh, we were driving and, uh, her face was buried in her phone. And, you know, I was trying to talk to her, so that's why I said, who you texting? Guys, they can edit to make it sound so, so crazy. I mean, if that's controlling, I don't, I didn't grab her phone. I didn't like grab her phone and say, who you texting like a creepo would, you know, that didn't.

• 1:09:31Derrick Levasseur?

  Do that. Uh, but you know, just a minute ago, Ken starts texting on her phone for her. So call me creepy, but anyway. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna weigh in too much on that. I was pretty self-explanatory. I did find it interesting that Ryan went back and forth between social studies, school teacher and Malibu's most wanted.

• 1:09:53Stephanie Harlowe?

  Did you just, did you just pull a BRAD joke?

• 1:09:56Derrick Levasseur?

  He, he, I mean, Ryan has his own things that he's going through and, and you know, he's, he's blocked and he's reaching out and some of it is understandable. He's losing his wife to another man. I get it, but there's a reason why he pursued Gypsy in the first place. And I think that's pretty evident as you watch this clip. He, at the, at the core, he may be a good guy, but.

• 1:10:15Stephanie Harlowe?

  He fetishized her. He fetishized her a little bit.

• 1:10:17Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. He has some own things, his own things he's dealing with. And then it's hard to take any of these guys serious because this is a really,

• 1:10:25Derrick Levasseur?

  this is a serious subject. This is a, a, a married couple, you know, who got together under unique circumstances and their, uh, their whole relationship, how it started was documented and now they're on this app, using it to tell their story, but at the same time pandering to their audience for money.

• 1:10:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  And, and having weird filters put on their face.

• 1:10:46Derrick Levasseur?

  And the filters are there because they're getting paid, you know, so. It's tough to take it all serious, but, but it, it just kind of encompasses this, this story in general and why we're talking about it and we're not the only ones, but I'm not going to sit here and break down those TikToks because I think, I think we're, I'd like to think we're better than that.

• 1:11:05Stephanie Harlowe?

  So I will break them down only to the extent.

• 1:11:10Stephanie Harlowe?

  Because so.

• 1:11:10Derrick Levasseur?

  He's like, I'm not better than that. I'll break it down.

• 1:11:13Stephanie Harlowe?

  I'm not better than that. Cause it's like, from a sociological, from a sociological perspective. This is actually like a small slice of what is actually happening in society where it's like.

• 1:11:28Stephanie Harlowe?

  Every, what Gypsy did, when she got out of prison, she should have faded into, into obscurity and anonymity. She should have said, "I did my time. I'm out now. My whole life's ahead of me. I have a chance to be different." And instead, she became a social media influencer and put all of her business out there. And then, um, seems to be, not even, like, it doesn't even seem like she doesn't like the negative attention. It almost seems like she likes it, like she enjoys it, because she continues to basically make everything that she's doing. Like, why'd you sign up for a reality show that's gonna follow you around after you get released? When, in the, in the days when you're-

• 1:12:08Derrick Levasseur?

  I gotta be careful what I say about reality shows and stuff, because I'm gonna bury myself, so-

• 1:12:12Stephanie Harlowe?

  Would you have ever done that? Would you have ever been like, "Yeah, after Big Brother, yes, follow me around. I haven't seen my wife in X amount of, you know, months. I haven't seen my kids in X amount of times. Yeah, follow me to my house with a camera, so that these intimate first moments that I'm back with my family can be documented."

• 1:12:27Derrick Levasseur?

  My first moments coming out was documented. I'm, I'm just, I'm not trying to be a hypocrite.

• 1:12:30Stephanie Harlowe?

  But wasn't it weird, dude? Like-

• 1:12:32Derrick Levasseur?

  It is weird, but I will, and it wasn't the case for me, unfortunately, but I can't imagine the money that was being thrown at them. And you're starting off your life from ground zero. She doesn't have a big savings account, you know, with everything going on. So, some production company says, "We're gonna pay you a hundred thousand dollars."

• 1:12:49Stephanie Harlowe?

  So, basically, she did exactly what her mother had done for her whole life, which is grift. Go on social media, e-bagging. Go on social media to get your registry for your child purchased. Use a frickin' reality show to get paid, and destroy the first, you know, months of your, what should have been an intimate time with your husband. Instead of going out there and saying, "I'm sure I can make an honest living," right? "I, I spent my whole life not making an honest living. My mom spent her whole life not making an honest living. I can turn this around. I can break this cycle of toxicity, this generational abuse." She went and she did the same thing that she's always done. Even after saying, oh, she's gone through all this therapy and mental health help and

• 1:13:33Stephanie Harlowe?

  career training and stuff in prison and learning life skills. And she's like, oh, when I get out, I'm gonna be fine. I'm gonna be able to take care of myself. You're not taking care of yourself. You're not. You're still grifting. You're still begging. You're still using the kindness of others to fund your life.

• 1:13:49Derrick Levasseur?

  I will tell you, that's a lot of what people do today. Not just Gypsy. I mean, social media is a bitch when it comes to that stuff.

• 1:13:55Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, but for somebody to be like, oh, I'm so glad that now I have the opportunity to like, live a normal life and take care of myself and be independent and show my mother.

• 1:14:02Derrick Levasseur?

  I think it was financially motivated, all the reason why she's exposing herself. And she probably liked the attention, for sure. I agree.

• 1:14:07Stephanie Harlowe?

  So I'm gonna comment on it specifically to the point of like, this girl, Gypsy, had no business being in any relationship. What she needed to do was stay off the internet, go to more therapy, look inward, fix the things about her that had been broken, whether it was her mother who broke them, or Nicholas Gotigan, or any of the other people that she's encountered in her life. Doesn't matter who broke them. It's your job now as an adult to fix them. But instead, she just dives into relationships, thinking that this is going to be the cure. This is going to be the answer. Somebody's going to take care of me. And so she had no business being in a relationship with Ken. She had no business being in a relationship with Ryan. And, and I feel bad for her about that, because I know that it's all she knows.

• 1:14:51Stephanie Harlowe?

  But according to her, she's had extensive therapy and she should be at a place where she understands that you don't, you, you can't count on somebody else for happiness. Because the second you start counting on somebody else for happiness and you're not able to provide that for yourself, you're, you're handing your life, your mental state to someone else and expecting them to be responsible for it when you need to be responsible for it. And this is why you see her, as soon as she's sick of, of Ryan, she just boom, ping pong, ping pongs right back to Ken. And, I don't know. It's, it's not, it's not super healthy, where she should. And she's even said, you know, she's... She's back with Ken, right? Um, but she's not gonna live with him.

• 1:15:35Stephanie Harlowe?

  She's gonna stay living with her parents, her stepmother, Kristy, and her father, Rod. And um, she's gonna live with them while, while she has this relationship with Ken. So that's great. In my opinion, that's a good start. That's a good way of saying, maybe I'm not ready to have this like mature, grown up, responsible relationship where we're living together and we're splitting bills and we have to make these decisions together. Maybe I should take things a little bit more slow. However, as it turns out, Gypsy is pregnant. And she claims that Ken is the father of her child, which is where we're at today. Gypsy and Ryan split in mid-March. Gypsy then made her relationship with Ken official online just weeks later. And within months, she had announced that she was pregnant. So obviously, the public had questions about who the father of her child was, considering

• 1:16:20Stephanie Harlowe?

  that Gypsy had gone live several times and admitted to having feelings for Ken and for to speaking with him often while she and Ryan were still married and living together. So recently, Gypsy has shared the results of a non-invasive paternity test, showing that Ken has 99.9% probability of being the father of this child. And she wrote, quote, "There's been a lot of chatter about the paternity of our baby. And while we've known for sure since the beginning, I feel that it's finally time to put all these theories to rest. Here are the results showing Ken is the father. Ken is going to be an incredible dad, and we are so excited to welcome our baby girl into the world." End quote. Why do you feel like you owe anybody any answers at this point? Why are you living chronically online?

• 1:17:03Stephanie Harlowe?

  Why are you, why do you think that anybody out there who's like, oh, who's the father of the, this should not affect your personal life. This should not affect your relationship with your child. This should not affect your relationship with the father of this child. And it doesn't really matter what anybody else out there thinks unless she plans on continuing to make her living as this social media influencer.

• 1:17:23Derrick Levasseur?

  I think that was the plan. I think that was the plan. I mean, she's making millions at that point. I guarantee it.

• 1:17:30Stephanie Harlowe?

  But do you think she's healthy and like emotionally enough to be doing that?

• 1:17:34Derrick Levasseur?

  No, but I think that speaks to her decision-making process and fairness to her. And even I think you would agree with this. Like whether she was abused or not, in your opinion, she grew up in a fucked up.

• 1:17:44Stephanie Harlowe?

  For sure.

• 1:17:44Derrick Levasseur?

  And so when you, when you don't have that foundation that a lot of us are blessed to have. As you get older and you become an adult, you're not able to discern what's right from wrong. You, you didn't have that role model in your life. That was doing that for you when you were a kid and you guys were making money off false claims. So I feel like she just, it's kind of a. A vicious circle where it's like, you know, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. She's finding ways to make money. In different ways than her mother did, but at the same time.

• 1:18:13Stephanie Harlowe?

  The same ways.

• 1:18:14Derrick Levasseur?

  Also the, at the same ways, exactly. So I, I just feel, I'm not saying she's. We shouldn't hold her accountable. I'm just saying there is some truth to the, to the notion that this is all she knows. This is all she knows and it does make me feel a little sad for her and that, from that perspective.

• 1:18:32Stephanie Harlowe?

  But you also spent like the better part of a decade in prison. So is it all you know?

• 1:18:37Derrick Levasseur?

  I mean, her role models in prison teaching her the right thing to do.

• 1:18:40Stephanie Harlowe?

  I don't know. Well, yeah, she's supposed to have like life skills. She went to classes for like life skills, teach her how to be independent. She got her a degree.

• 1:18:47Derrick Levasseur?

  But she's still who she is. I mean, there's a lot of, there's a lot of psychological turmoil there.

• 1:18:51Stephanie Harlowe?

  Exactly, but, but if.

• 1:18:52Derrick Levasseur?

  You can unpack all that.

• 1:18:53Stephanie Harlowe?

  If almost a decade of, of therapy and life skills and education. Didn't bring her to a place where she realizes like, hey, maybe I shouldn't get married to somebody I only talk to on the phone while I'm still in prison. If that doesn't bring you to a place where you realize that, like what will? What will? Nothing. Um, so that's where we're at right now. Um. Gypsy's gonna be a mom and uh, probably use her child on social media for, for more attention and. I don't know. I don't know.

• 1:19:24Derrick Levasseur?

  Wrapping this one up.

• 1:19:25Stephanie Harlowe?

  Let's give our final thoughts. You wanna go first or you want me to go first?

• 1:19:28Derrick Levasseur?

  Um, you're on a roll. You wanna go first? Don't matter to me. Whatever you wanna do.

• 1:19:32Stephanie Harlowe?

  I mean, I don't have a lot to say. When it comes down to it, if you look at, once again, I wanna, I sort of started this series with the comparison of Gypsy. To the Menendez brothers and I wanna end it that way. If you look at what happened with Eric. And Lyle and you look at what their parents did to them, there's not an ounce of anything in me that would say that their parents. Had their best interests at heart. They were just bad people. They came from money. They had money. They had power. They had influence. They had everything. Now, when you look at DeeDee Blanchard, she did not have money. She did not have power. She did not have influence. And in order to make her life and her daughter's life better, she lied and she came up with a scheme. But

• 1:20:14Stephanie Harlowe?

  I believe that DeeDee did that to benefit both herself and Gypsy. Like, it's gonna be a little, there's gonna be a little bit of sacrifice. We're gonna shave your head. We're gonna have to do this. We're gonna have to put on a whole show. But at the end of the day, you're gonna get to do things that I would never have been able to give you on my own. We're gonna be able to have experiences. We're gonna be able to have a house. We're gonna be able to have things that I never would have been able to give you as a single mother of low socioeconomic status. And I do think that that was the goal there. Was it healthy? No. Was it toxic? Yes. But at the end of the day, when you look at Jose Menendez, was he doing what he did for Eric and Lyle so he could give them a life that he didn't have? No. He had already provided them a life that he didn't have. And he was

• 1:20:56Stephanie Harlowe?

  trying to make them, every single day, feel bad about that and earn it in whatever weird, toxic way he thought they should. Whereas, I believe DeeDee was more like, hey, I can't do these things for you. I can't bring you to Disney World. I can't let you meet the whole cast of Harry Potter. But if we play this game, and if you play this role, you'll be able to do all of those things and more. And like I said, I don't believe that there was any, like, physical abuse. Like, she was being punched, hit. Nobody ever saw Gypsy with black eyes, bleeding, bruises on her. I think it was something that DeeDee did to benefit them both and to make both of their lives better. But when you come from a toxic place already, you don't realize that you're damaging your child more than

• 1:21:39Stephanie Harlowe?

  you would have maybe if you guys had had to struggle. But maybe that's also damaging to a child. If your mother is a single mother and has to work all the time and isn't there for you, like, how would, how would Gypsy's life have been better? I don't know. But this wasn't it. But I do not think there was an intention of DeeDee, like, I'm gonna make this girl's life miserable. I'm gonna make sure she never has a happy day in her life. And I think that Eric and Lyle's parents kind of wanted their kids to be miserable and kind of wanted to punish them and wanted to torture them. So I think there's the vast difference there.

• 1:22:10Derrick Levasseur?

  Okay, and then final question for you would be, here we are now. What do you think about where Gypsy is and where Nicholas is? What's your final take on that?

• 1:22:18Stephanie Harlowe?

  I think, you know, I think they both should have been in prison for life, period. I don't think that either one of them should have gotten out after 10 years or before 10 years, in Gypsy's case. I think they both should have been tried and found guilty for first degree murder, because that's what it was, and they were both equally responsible. Without one or the other, it never would have happened.

• 1:22:40Derrick Levasseur?

  Okay. So, I have all these notes that we've been taking over this seven-part series, and I'm not going to sit here and summarize all that. So I'm going to try to keep it short, to go from the beginning to where we are now, how I feel about it. I feel like this case, the reason why it's so polarizing is because a lot of people combined two different crimes into one story. And they do kind of go hand in hand. But I think for the sake of what I want to do, I had to separate them. I had to compartmentalize the two questions, which was, is Gypsy responsible for DeeDee's murder? And was she abused? And without beating a dead horse here, I do feel there was some level of abuse. What that level is, I don't know. To what extent, we may never know.

• 1:23:25Derrick Levasseur?

  DeeDee, like I said earlier, is no longer here. But I will say, and I said it in this episode, it does appear that Gypsy wasn't in immediate fear of some type of abuse while still living with DeeDee, based on what we do have, the evidence. We do have the ability to go back and look at specifically the conversations between her and Nicholas Gotachan. Premeditated murder. You know, what we're looking at here, was she part of it? Was she not part of it? I've made my opinions on that very clear. She was not only part of it, I would say that she was the driving force behind it. She was the orchestrator of that murder. That's just my opinion. As far as motive, motive to me... It could be a combination of things, but to go back to the DMs and what we do have,

• 1:24:10Derrick Levasseur?

  there's been no indication that her motive was defensive in nature, where she felt like this was the only way to avoid being hurt or killed by her abuser. To me, you have a combination of things where it could be some resentment because of what she went through. It also could be financial in nature. There was a little bit of money available, not a lot, but there was some money. And I personally do feel like she wanted to move on with Nicholas Gotodjohn. I think she wanted out of the relationship and I think she did feel like as long as DeeDee was alive, DeeDee was never gonna let her have a relationship with Nicholas or any other man for that matter. We have to remember at the time when this occurred, DeeDee was in bed, sick, and Gypsy had the ability to leave.

• 1:24:53Stephanie Harlowe?

  Sleeping, sleeping.

• 1:24:54Derrick Levasseur?

  But sleeping, Gypsy was 23 years old, had the ability to leave, but she didn't. And she, because she was in a mental state where she still valued the opinion of her mother and was still living under her roof, I think a big part of Gypsy felt like, as long as my mother's here, she's never gonna let me be with someone else. DeeDee wants to keep me to herself. But I do not feel that this was some form of self-defense and I don't think that there's been any indication that this needed to be done in order to save Gypsy's life. That's not only my opinion. She never expressed that to the person she was the closest with at the time, which was Nicholas Gotodjohn. Then we get into the area that is extremely important

• 1:25:38Derrick Levasseur?

  for this case and is ultimately very subjective. And that's the phrase.

• 1:25:42Stephanie Harlowe?

  Oh, can I cut in really quick with a comment?

• 1:25:44Derrick Levasseur?

  Of course. You usually have something based on what I say. So, go for it.

• 1:25:49Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, well, there's a comment. There was a few comments I screenshotted from last week's episode. And the Sunny Leo said, "Guys, Gypsy was nowhere near in love with Nick. She literally bought him a round trip bus ticket in advance, didn't buy her own until last minute. You have to understand who Gypsy was in love with. It was Dan. He was married though, so she couldn't run away with him. You cannot convince me she didn't intend to go with him and realized last minute, Dan wasn't gonna take her anywhere. She was literally texting Dan in the closet when the police came to arrest her and Nick. She told Nick not to wear gloves to frame him. She never loved him. It was always Dan." And then somebody responded, "Not to mention, she mailed the knife to Nick's house after telling him they would throw it in the river."

• 1:26:32Stephanie Harlowe?

  And yeah, I kind of, I kind of feel the same way. And then this other person said, I think that's why she posted on Facebook so they would come get Nick and she could just go back to her house. She didn't want to take the money to Nick's house because then he would want to start planning their life with it. She left it there, posted to get him arrested, thinking she could just prance back home and live happily ever after. So that's very valid, right? When you asked, does Gypsy love Nick? And, you know, we're talking about, she wanted DeeDee out of the way so she could be with Nick. I think if she wanted DeeDee out of the way so she could be with somebody.

• 1:27:03Derrick Levasseur?

  Oh, that's what I'm saying.

• 1:27:04Stephanie Harlowe?

  Wasn't necessarily Nick, right?

• 1:27:06Derrick Levasseur?

  I agree with that, yeah. And that's what I said. I think that she took away from this that whether it was Nicholas, Gota, John, Dan, John, Ryan, Sean, whoever it was, as long as DeeDee was alive, there probably was some truth to this, maybe DeeDee didn't want to be alone and she wanted to keep Gypsy under her thumb and keep her in the house. That could be true. That could be true where she was holding on to her as tight as she could because that's

• 1:27:29Stephanie Harlowe?

  Trying to keep her young, trying to keep her little.

• 1:27:30Derrick Levasseur?

  Yep, that's all, that's all she had. So, the next thing that I'm going to talk about is something that was big in this trial and it's big in this case, and that's mitigating circumstances and how we view them. Because depending on where you sit, you could view these mitigating circumstances differently. For the sake of this, it's applicable to the sentencing, right? My opinion, based on what we do know, that's fact-based, there's not enough evidence of abuse here to suggest that the crime that was committed would be justified based on those mitigating circumstances of abuse. It just doesn't reach that level. There's not enough evidence, direct evidence, to suggest that what Gypsy has conveyed to us is in fact the truth wholly.

• 1:28:14Derrick Levasseur?

  I already told you guys that I believe she was abused to a certain extent. What that extent is, I don't know and I don't think anybody does. So, a lot of you have pushed back, and this is not only in the comments from things that I've said, but even some of the people that I met on the crime crews. And the phrase that I keep hearing when I say that she is guilty of murder is, no, she's guilty of killing her abuser. Here's what I would pose to everybody who feels that way. You may be right, but we can't condone behavior or create a society where victims, whether they're victims or not, maybe they just think they're victims, or they could actually

• 1:28:56Derrick Levasseur?

  be victims. Regardless, we can't have them serving as judge, jury, and executioner. We do not want to set that precedent where victims, actual victims, are out there killing their abusers without any type of trial taking place for that abuser. Dee Dee was never arrested. She was never even charged with a crime. I'm not saying she's not guilty of it. I've already told you what I feel about that. But the reality, as far as the judicial system is concerned, is she was never charged with anything. And yet she is dead because of that, according to Gypsy. So I don't want to go down that path. I do not want to set that precedent where we're

• 1:29:37Derrick Levasseur?

  justifying murder, premeditated murder, because the victim took out their justice on their abuser. You may, you may feel like that's personally the right move, but that's not the world I want to live in. So to kind of round this out, I agree with, with Stephanie in the sense that they should both still be in prison. I think Nick is a danger to society. I think Gypsy is as well. And if Gypsy were to get out, then Nicholas should have got out as well. They're both equally culpable in this murder, in my opinion. Do I think they should be in there with life without parole? That's where I do think mitigating circumstances could have played a role.

• 1:30:18Stephanie Harlowe?

  For them both, yeah.

• 1:30:19Derrick Levasseur?

  I could have seen 20 years.

• 1:30:21Stephanie Harlowe?

  20, 25, I was thinking.

• 1:30:22Derrick Levasseur?

  20 to 25, and then revisiting it and seeing where they are, but eight years, and you're back out with those DMs that are out there.

• 1:30:30Stephanie Harlowe?

  Nicholas Gojhan, life in prison, no chance of parole.

• 1:30:32Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, the other, the other person involved who.

• 1:30:35Stephanie Harlowe?

  The compare contrast is just ludicrous.

• 1:30:37Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, I don't, I don't get that.

• 1:30:38Stephanie Harlowe?

  You have to ask, like, why was one treated so differently than the other?

• 1:30:43Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, it's because of their interpretation. Of those mitigating circumstances.

• 1:30:48Stephanie Harlowe?

  I think that's what they say, but I don't think that's the full story. I think there's something deeper. I think there's something political. I think there's something image related. And I wish I knew what it was, and I think one day it's gonna come out. If I'm being honest.

• 1:30:59Derrick Levasseur?

  I will see.

• 1:31:00Stephanie Harlowe?

  Something else is at play here. It's not just mitigating circumstances. You still would have seen. He literally said, I could have gotten her for first degree murder. She would have spent her life in prison. So you think you can't give her a better deal? For, for justice than eight years? You could have offered her 20.

• 1:31:15Derrick Levasseur?

  10 years and only served eight, yep.

• 1:31:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, you could have offered her 20 and she still would have been getting off easy.

• 1:31:20Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. So here's where we are. And this is the facts. Gypsy Rose will never be charged again. It is set in stone. She has served her time. And unless she commits a different crime. She is going to live the rest of her life as a free woman. So. Here's what I hope. I think Nicholas still needs to stay where he is. At least they got half of it right. However. What I hope for Gypsy at this point is she got. She got lucky. She got a second chance at life that. In our opinions. Maybe she shouldn't have gotten this soon. But she does have a baby on the way. And I talked about. Her relationship with Dee Dee and how it affected her. In her romantic life and all I can hope at this point.

• 1:32:03Derrick Levasseur?

  Is that that vicious cycle that has been passed down from Dee Dee's parents? To Dee Dee. To Gypsy.

• 1:32:10Stephanie Harlowe?

  Hopefully not to Gypsy's daughter.

• 1:32:12Derrick Levasseur?

  With everything that's taken place. And all this criticism and, and, and ability to look back on what has transpired. I hope Gypsy takes all of it. And breaks that cycle as you just said, and, and does better by. Her son or daughter. I don't know what, what, what the gender is.

• 1:32:28Stephanie Harlowe?

  Daughter, yeah.

• 1:32:29Derrick Levasseur?

  Even more so.

• 1:32:29Stephanie Harlowe?

  Even more so.

• 1:32:31Derrick Levasseur?

  I really hope that.

• 1:32:32Stephanie Harlowe?

  Do you think you hope, you hope, you hope, we all hope.

• 1:32:34Derrick Levasseur?

  I hope.

• 1:32:35Stephanie Harlowe?

  Do you think? Do you think? That it's, that she's gonna, that she's gonna miraculously? Break the cycle?

• 1:32:42Derrick Levasseur?

  We're gonna find out, but I'm, I'm hoping for the sake of the child, yes. But I think, I do think there's a level of accountability that no one in her life. From previous generations has had. She is gonna be under a microscope.

• 1:32:53Stephanie Harlowe?

  There's a level of accountability she's never taken. She's never shown remorse. She's out there on, on TikTok shamelessly. e-begging and laughing and you know throwing one man out for the other very publicly. And there's never like you should have not shown your face for a while.

• 1:33:12Derrick Levasseur?

  I I don't disagree.

• 1:33:13Stephanie Harlowe?

  There should have been some shame. There should have been some remorse. There should have been some accountability and some self-awareness. After what you did, after you were convicted and and put in prison for the crime of killing your mother. That you didn't need to jump on social media the second you got out and start thanks for the roses. Thanks for the roses. It's disgusting. I'm disgusted. I'm disgusted. But that's all.

• 1:33:36Derrick Levasseur?

  Let's I was trying to end on a positive note. I'm gonna try again. Can you can I do that?

• 1:33:40Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay.

• 1:33:41Derrick Levasseur?

  Let's hope the best for her daughter.

• 1:33:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  I do.

• 1:33:43Derrick Levasseur?

  Let's hope that there's some silver lining out of all this where this beautiful little girl who did not ask for any of this. Um, has a mother who supports and loves her and treats her right. Because of maybe the things that she's been through in this opportunity to have the chance to be a parent when maybe. That shouldn't have been the case if the justice system went a different way. So.

• 1:34:05Stephanie Harlowe?

  And there's a possibility of that. I've seen children change people.

• 1:34:08Derrick Levasseur?

  There we go. That's there we go. Stephanie, positive. I like that. Any anything else other than e-begging?

• 1:34:15Stephanie Harlowe?

  It's literally like it was painful for me to say that. So.

• 1:34:17Derrick Levasseur?

  Okay, little I'm gonna do something that I didn't say with Stephanie, but we're gonna give you the heads up. Next week, we're starting a new series. It's been highly requested. We put out a little poll online about it and it's about. Three, four of you that that want it. That's usually the number somewhere around.

• 1:34:33Stephanie Harlowe?

  It was like 77%.

• 1:34:34Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, it's not everyone, but we're gonna be covering the Karen Reed series. Uh, we're gonna be talking about it. And the only other thing that I'll mention because it literally happened. While we were recording today, so there's no way we could do it for Crime Weekly News, which is, uh, Richard Allen has been found guilty of murdering. Uh, Libby and Abby. And so we covered that already on Crime Weekly. There has been a lot more that's come out. We'll have to talk about. That and how we're gonna cover it. It may be just a long Crime Weekly News because again, we did a series on it. We had. Kelsey on to talk about the case. So I don't know if we would do a whole nother series, but I think we could do a longer Crime Weekly News and discuss. Uh, what kind of happened during the trial, some of the complications.

• 1:35:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  Found guilty.

• 1:35:18Derrick Levasseur?

  And then, yes, and why he was found guilty.

• 1:35:20Stephanie Harlowe?

  And the reason I want to cover Karen Reed. Is because of Derek, basically. Because this case heavily, heavily slants towards police corruption. And listen, when I first like started looking into it, I was like, this defense team is crazy. There's no way that there's this level of police corruption. And as I've gotten deeper and Derek can attest, I was at the, I was at my office all weekend, when I usually don't work on weekends like that, and he called me, he's like, what are you doing? I'm like, working, I can't get away from this Karen Reed thing, like, I'm obsessed with it. I've already like, taken all the notes, I've got a timeline, I was talking fast, he was like, oh man,

• 1:35:50Derrick Levasseur?

  I was like, did you take Adderall today?

• 1:35:52Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yes.

• 1:35:53Derrick Levasseur?

  Yes.

• 1:35:53Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yes, but that's also the dopamine that I get when I'm so fixated on a case and, and I'm so interested in it. And I really want to get, especially because this is, this is Canton, okay? So it's very close to Derek.

• 1:36:07Derrick Levasseur?

  Yep, right next door.

• 1:36:08Stephanie Harlowe?

  Right next door. There is a huge amount of alleged police corruption, and I want to get his take on it. Like, he's going to obviously sway towards defending the police, as he does, because that's what he does. And I want to see, faced with the information that there is, what does he think about it? And what does he have to say about it?

• 1:36:31Derrick Levasseur?

  Looking forward to it. New series coming next week. We appreciate you guys being here. Like, comment, subscribe. Uh, we will see you next week with a new Crime Weekly news. Until then, everyone stay safe out there.

• 1:36:40Stephanie Harlowe?

  Until then, don't be Panini pressed. Bye, guys.

• 1:36:43Derrick Levasseur?

  Panini pressed? What's that?

• 1:36:44Stephanie Harlowe?

  The gypsy, the gypsy social media people understand.

• 1:36:47Derrick Levasseur?

  Oh, Jesus.

• 1:36:48Stephanie Harlowe?

  Shannon, can you play the Panini pressed Gypsy Rose video to take us out?

• 1:36:51Derrick Levasseur?

  All right. Stay safe out there. We're going out. Here's the Panini pressed video that I have not seen. This is the first on Crime Weekly. Have a good night.

• 1:37:00Stephanie Harlowe?

  Bye.

• 1:37:01Speaker 05

  Oh, honey, I am so not threatened by you. My man wouldn't touch you with a 10-foot pole. You're just mad because I have a Chad. And last time I checked, you don't have a man. So, looks like you're the one that's Panini pressed. Call a spade a spade, honey. Keep making content.