S3 Ep145: Rex Heuermann Admits He Is The Gilgo Beach Serial Killer

Rex Heuermann, a New York-based architect, pleaded guilty to seven murders spanning nearly two decades, admitting to strangling all eight victims and dumping their remains across Long Island. He faces multiple life sentences, with sentencing scheduled for June 17, 2026. Try our coffee! - www. CriminalCoffeeCo.comBecome a Patreon member -- > ｿ https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeeklyShop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> ｿ https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shopYoutube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcastWebsite: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.comInstagram: @CrimeWeeklyPodTwitter: @CrimeWeeklyPodFacebook: @CrimeWeeklyPodADS:1. https://www. WildGrain.com/CrimeWeekly30 - Use code CRIMEWEEKLY30 for $30 off your first box and FREE croissants for LIFE!

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:14Derrick Levasseur?

  Hey everyone, welcome back to Crime Weekly News. I'm Derek Levasseur.

• 0:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  And I'm Stephanie Harlow.

• 0:18Derrick Levasseur?

  And as you can see from the title, Rex Heuermann has pleaded guilty to killing seven women between 1993 and 2011. He also admitted to killing an eighth victim in a series of murders that came to be known as the Gilgo Beach Serial Killings. This is something that everyone has been covering for a long time now, and I think most people had already came to the conclusion that he was responsible for it. This was something that I did a special on ID with Nancy Grace, and it was something she was fascinated by, not because of the killings, the killings are obviously tragic, but it was the manner in which he was caught. And we're going to talk a lot about what this means going forward. Could there be more victims and all that? And Stephanie's going to weigh in on that.

• 1:00Derrick Levasseur?

  But I do think there's something here with Rex's case specifically that is a testament to not losing hope and not assuming that the original investigation was done right. Because as we've come to learn, it wasn't really some new breaking technology or science that helped solve this case. Yes, it was an assistance with DNA, that's ultimately what connected him, once he was identified. But it was more so just one detective going through the initial statements, going through the initial police reports, and finding something that had been missed, something that they've had all along. And it's good and bad, like it's a good story that they got him, but it does make me wonder if they had found this sooner,

• 1:45Derrick Levasseur?

  would we have all these victims? And that's the troubling part of all of this.

• 1:49Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, wasn't it his pizza crusts, if I remember properly?

• 1:54Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, well, that was after. So, and we can go through all of it, but basically what was happening is one of the victims was a former sex worker. And what she would do is she would get in contact with these Johns, and she would solicit them, get them to come over to a location, most of the time it was her house. So the John would show up, and then as soon as the John would give her the money. That's when her co-conspirators, usually men, would come out with guns or whatever and pretend to be her husband. And then all of a sudden, the John would, you know, pull up their pants, run out of the house, not get their money back. And most of the time, they were never heard from again. So with Rex Heuermann, same thing kinda happens, right?

• 2:38Derrick Levasseur?

  He goes into the house, he gives her the money, and the John, the co-conspirators come out, they chase him off. And then she goes missing, like a day or two later. And one of the witness statements that came out was that this guy who had showed up, who was a John, looked like an ogre, was huge, this big massive guy who showed up looking, quote, like an ogre.

• 3:01Stephanie Harlowe?

  That's pretty accurate, knowing Rex Heuermann.

• 3:03Derrick Levasseur?

  And you can see from the photo here, they're not wrong. He does, he looks like, like a human version of Shrek. But the real X factor in all of this wasn't only his, his appearance, because that's important. It was the description of his vehicle. He was driving a black Chevy Avalanche. And if you're not familiar with the Chevy Avalanche, they no longer make it. But essentially, it's a pickup truck, but it had like these weird pillars, angular pillars on the back of the truck.

• 3:31Stephanie Harlowe?

  I, I know exactly, it kinda like angled down from the, from the bed to the cab, right?

• 3:36Derrick Levasseur?

  Correct, from like the back window to the cab. And the reason for that is the Avalanche had this really cool feature where you could remove that glass, you could store it away. You could fold down the back of the truck essentially, and make the truck bed extend into the cab of the vehicle. I know most of this because I had a Chevy Avalanche, it was one of my favorite trucks. And so, there's not a lot of these trucks out there, they're expensive, they were expensive at the time, and they really do stand out. So, the combination of these witnesses saying, yeah, this guy had this very distinguishable truck, coupled with what he looked like, they were able to go back into the DMV registry, find all of the vehicles that fit this description, and then compare that to the owners of the vehicle.

• 4:20Derrick Levasseur?

  And see if there was any descriptions that matched with this whole robbery that took place. Because essentially, it was a crime, right? What they're doing, it's not necessarily a John's thing. They were robbing these Johns, right? So, you know, two wrongs don't make a right. But through that, they were able to identify the truck. Identify Rex Huriman and then to your point, once they had him, they had DNA in some of these cases. So what they did was they got a piece of pizza crust outside of his office. He was an architect. And that's how they were able to compare his DNA to DNA found at the crime scenes and that's where they made the link.

• 4:55Stephanie Harlowe?

  And it's funny because I think um the a woman who worked for Rex for a long time, she said that he had a habit of doing this. Not eating the crust of his pizza. And she said for years she'd tell him that why aren't you eating the crust? It's the best part. And he was like, I don't like the crust. And so he would never eat the crust. And it was that crust that they had pulled from his garbage that kind of was the smoking gun they needed. And it made me think, because I don't eat the crust of my pizza either. I don't find it to be the best part.

• 5:23Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, let me just say, not all crusts is created equal.

• 5:27Stephanie Harlowe?

  That is so true. Thank you.

• 5:28Derrick Levasseur?

  Some crust is like garlic bread.

• 5:31Stephanie Harlowe?

  Some crust is like buttery and soft.

• 5:33Derrick Levasseur?

  Do you like stuffed crust pizza?

• 5:35Stephanie Harlowe?

  I love stuffed crust pizza.

• 5:36Derrick Levasseur?

  Okay, so you do eat crust.

• 5:37Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, if there was stuffed crust pizza, then I wouldn't be getting caught for anything.

• 5:40Derrick Levasseur?

  That's a garlic cheese bread right there.

• 5:42Stephanie Harlowe?

  It's delicious.

• 5:43Derrick Levasseur?

  But yeah, but overall, science and technology now definitely helped the advancements they have. But all it really was, was a team of detectives, state detectives, I believe, NYPD, I want to say, or it might have been New York State Police, coming together and looking at this report that essentially existed right after the disappearance of this woman. And that's how they were able to say, hmm, maybe we should look into this guy. He might have an axe to grind, right? But this is something they had all along.

• 6:11Stephanie Harlowe?

  But it's like, was it even an axe to grind? Or was he just a serial killer?

• 6:16Derrick Levasseur?

  Oh, no, he he I think it was a combination where he was going to kill her regardless. If but once she burned him like that, oh, he was coming back.

• 6:23Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 6:23Derrick Levasseur?

  He was coming back.

• 6:24Stephanie Harlowe?

  This was this wasn't his first or last victim.

• 6:28Derrick Levasseur?

  No, there's so many stories and and and then we may find there's more. We may find down the road that there are many more victims that we're unaware of. There were some murders out of Atlantic City that looked like they could be similar with the MO in this one. Maybe now that he's admitted to this. Maybe he'll be cooperative, not because he wants to help the victims or their families, but due to his own ego, right? Wanting to build up that notoriety, if you will. Maybe that's why he'll tell us every other case he's potentially involved in.

• 6:59Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, I saw some people were saying, maybe he's copped to these eight murders because he wants people to stop looking into other murders he's committed. He doesn't want them to kind of keep unraveling and digging. So he's like, okay, let me, you know, give you what you want here and plead guilty to these and then even throw in an extra one that maybe, you know, wasn't even on my docket. And then you'll kind of think I'm being cooperative and I'm like telling you a name that you didn't previously know about or that you didn't previously have evidence against me for. And so you'll think that's all there is, so you'll stop looking. And according to the news reports, Rex Hume is apparently going to be cooperating with

• 7:41Stephanie Harlowe?

  the FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit to better understand criminal behavior. So that kind of sounds more like he's, you know, on a mind hunter kind of thing now where it's like, hey, let's talk about how criminals, you know, how they work and how they move and I'll, I'll give you those things, not necessarily like I will lead you to more of my victims. I think he wants people to stop looking. I think that Rex Hume's reputation was always very important to him. You know, this very successful businessman, this doting father, good husband. There were people who knew him who were like, wow, like we didn't know he was some sexual predator. If you'd, if you'd asked me, I wouldn't even told you that he had a penis because he seemed that like not focused on these things.

• 8:24Stephanie Harlowe?

  So I think his reputation is still very important to him where I don't think he wants us to know the extent of his crimes and how far they go.

• 8:33Derrick Levasseur?

  You might not be wrong. I want to talk about the victims and also the eighth victim that he wasn't originally charged with, but admitted to because she's been on the radar all along. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

• 8:46Stephanie Harlowe?

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• 11:17Derrick Levasseur?

  All right, so we're back. And before we continue, I just want to mention the victims here because ultimately that's what this is about. Melissa Bartholomew, Megan Waterman, Amber Costello. That's the original murders that Rex was charged with. He was later charged with the murders of Maureen Brainerd Barnes, Sandra Costilla, and Jessica Taylor, along with Valerie Mack. Now, those were the seven that he was originally charged with. Karen Vergata was also someone who has been linked to these women as well. She was found in the same area, kind of all, kind of the same MO. They weren't able to link it originally, but then now he's admitting to it. So they didn't have enough at that point to charge, although it was going to come down the pipeline anyways. But he basically beat him to the

• 12:00Derrick Levasseur?

  punch. He knew what was coming. And that was probably part of it where it's like, hey, we want you to admit to all eight. Even though we've only charged you with the first seven, for the sake of her family and people that cared about her, they need to know what happened. They need to know who was responsible. We need you to admit to that one as well.

• 12:15Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. And here's my question. They say his sentencing is scheduled for this coming June. With the news that apparently Rex Heuermann is going to be working with the FBI Behavioral Analysis Unit, does it sound like they are considering a potential death sentence?

• 12:33Derrick Levasseur?

  He admitted to these eight. He's going to be cooperating with the FBI. Like you said, I would imagine there's got to be something in it for him and maybe the death penalty is off the table?

• 12:42Stephanie Harlowe?

  It looks like because this happened in New York, it really never realistically was even on the table, right? Because New York doesn't have an active death penalty.

• 12:52Derrick Levasseur?

  That's true. That's true.

• 12:53Stephanie Harlowe?

  Since 2004. I guess like the way I kind of look at it is this should maybe go to a federal level where it's like you have a guy who has Committed multiple murders and who has now confessed to multiple murders, who is a serial killer, you know, it's not an isolated incident. This is like a monster. So I kind of feel like in personally for me, for those kinds of situations, there should be exemptions to any state not having a death penalty law because you shouldn't feel like as a serial killer, psychopath monster. Well, if I live in New York, it's, it's okay if I'm a serial killer because I won't get the death penalty. So what now all the serial killers just avoid

• 13:35Stephanie Harlowe?

  states with the death penalty, you know, and they don't, they don't like, you know, enact their serial killing crimes there. So while I understand why New York doesn't have a death penalty, and in some ways I agree with it on a case by case basis, for somebody like Rex Heuerman, should there be an exception to the rule? Is that even possible? Can it be something that we actively like lobby for at this point? Because

• 13:58Derrick Levasseur?

  It's gonna be tough because I, you know, I was just looking this up because I didn't have the answer to it. Since 1976, based on federal charges, they've, the federal government has only executed 16 people.

• 14:08Stephanie Harlowe?

  But I feel like the Long Island serial killer should be kind of maybe considered for that, you know?

• 14:14Derrick Levasseur?

  I think they tried not to step on state jurisdictions, especially

• 14:20Stephanie Harlowe?

  So it's what? They just want to keep him in prison so they can use him? Because the federal government clearly has no problem using his quote unquote expertise as if this guy's even going to be honest. You know, he could be giving them completely false information and leading the FBI's behavioral analysis of future crimes in a completely wrong direction.

• 14:37Derrick Levasseur?

  No, you're wrong. I mean, I think at this point, I don't know. I don't know how the families would feel about it because regardless of whether they kill him or not, if they did execute him, it's not going to be nearly equivalent to what those victims experienced because he tortured them. I mean, without going into all the specifics here, you guys can go look up the murder book. He had a whole, like, he was very organized, very intelligent guy. As I was saying earlier, he's an architect, but he had like a actual computer like database, like

• 15:05Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, they said he systematically and in detail planned each of these murders. Like, this is a psychopath.

• 15:11Derrick Levasseur?

  Yep. Where to keep them, how to store them certain ways and all these different things. And sometimes you can come back and say, oh, at least they went quick or this was painless.

• 15:21Derrick Levasseur?

  That was not the case here.

• 15:22Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, but I mean, so yeah, executing him, is it going to be an equivalent of what these families lost? No, but having him sit in prison and, you know, sitting down with John Douglas every other week and having his own season of Mindhunter, maybe isn't also the most terrible of punishments, you know? Because now he gets to sit there and talk about his crimes and like revel.

• 15:42Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, I mean, he shouldn't be allowed to talk about them publicly. It should be all behind closed doors with no notoriety.

• 15:48Stephanie Harlowe?

  It is, but still, you get to have company and you get to talk about the thing you want to talk about and love talking about the most.

• 15:55Derrick Levasseur?

  That's a fair thing. I mean, that's what he wants to sit there and brag about. He hasn't been able to brag about what he did for so long.

• 16:00Stephanie Harlowe?

  And so now it's like, okay, we're going to use him, which you don't even know if he's being honest.

• 16:06Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, let me just be devil's advocate, okay? I agree with everything you just said, actually, but on the other hand, there are other Rex Huramans out there. And as we have seen over the years, although we try, the FBI, local, state police, not the best, right? This guy went undetected for many years and killed multiple people because he went undetected.

• 16:27Stephanie Harlowe?

  Because of who his victims were, let's be honest.

• 16:28Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, that, that, that didn't help the case, right? Having victims who were not necessarily being looked for by their, their relatives and their friends because of maybe the line of work they were in.

• 16:37Stephanie Harlowe?

  And who maybe law enforcement didn't necessarily care about solving their disappearances because of what line of work they were in.

• 16:42Derrick Levasseur?

  Also very true. No pushback there. So if we, as a law enforcement entity, have someone who is clearly some of the worst that we've ever had, right? If we can learn from him and apply that to other cases, or, or cases that come up in the future, I guess the question would be, is it worth it?

• 17:01Stephanie Harlowe?

  I think that what this is doing, having this part of his deal being, hey, you've got to work with the FBI, okay? It's almost like acknowledging to him and speaking to the part of him that is most active, which is his ego. You are the best of the best, okay? We want you to confess so that the FBI can learn from you because you were so good at being a serial killer, is what it sounds like to me. And you know he loves that. You know he loves it. This, this is kind of the prestige where he's like, hey, all right, everyone found out I'm a serial killer, but at least I'm like one of the best. You know, and I think that that's giving him something that he shouldn't have. It's giving him validation that he shouldn't have.

• 17:45Stephanie Harlowe?

  I mean, even when he's pleading guilty, everyone in the courtroom said, there's not a scrap of, you know, sadness or like regret on this man's face. He does not care. So I think that when, when it's a person like that who's really reveling in what they've done and you're telling them like, yeah, you're so detailed, you're so good at this. We need your help. The FBI needs your help, sir. The government needs you. The only thing that, that someone like Rex Hume will respond to is fear. The only thing that's going to actually put him in a state where he's feeling a scrap of what he made his victims feel is fear. And telling him, hey, you know, uh, thanks for pleading guilty, blah, blah, blah. There's an exemption to this New York state law and, and you're actually going to be up

• 18:28Stephanie Harlowe?

  for the death penalty based on, you know, you being a monster psychopath. Sorry. That would be, I think, a form of punishment to him. Whereas him just sitting in prison and getting to talk to FBI people and, and go over all his crimes and talk about things and having people coming to him almost like for his expertise, like he's a consultant is just going to boost his ego. And I, I don't like it personally. And I, and like once, could we learn from him? Maybe, but is he even going to be honest?

• 18:58Derrick Levasseur?

  His practices, who he learned from, maybe, maybe over time you can get him to admit to other killings that he may have been involved in.

• 19:05Stephanie Harlowe?

  You said he's smart. He could just make shit up.

• 19:08Derrick Levasseur?

  I mean, he definitely could. He definitely could. There's no doubt. They have to have their bullshit meter up. And just from what I'm gathering here, and I'm reading this article right now, it looks like Hume is expected to be sentenced to three consecutive sentences of life imprisonment without the possibility of parole for killing Melissa Bartholomew, Megan Waterman and Amber Costello. Hume is also expected to be sentenced to consecutive sentences of 100 years to life imprisonment for the killing of Maureen Brainard Barnes, Jessica Taylor, Sandra Costilla and Valerie Mack. This is something where we haven't even added Karen Vergata in there as well. So he ain't getting out. He ain't getting out. And I, I think that is a question where I'm wondering what the general consensus is from you guys as you start to hear all of this.

• 19:54Derrick Levasseur?

  Where do we go? And there's no wrong way to do this. Is this something where? You take him out right away. He's admitted to it. He has no place being on this planet. You kill him and you never have to talk about him again. Or do we want, as much as it may cause your stomach to turn, give him a little bit of what he wants and in return, he gives us what law enforcement may need to help prevent this from happening in the future? Or to maybe track someone down who's currently committing crimes like this? I don't know the answer. Or is there a third option where it's like, yeah, man, life imprisonment, you're good. Just tell us everything and then once he does, you kill him anyways. Not the most ethical thing, but it's options.

• 20:35Stephanie Harlowe?

  Here's, here's my stance. We have developed as a society in law enforcement so far with forensics and DNA and electronic tracking, that there's really not going to be a huge instance of serial killers popping up anymore.

• 20:51Derrick Levasseur?

  God willing, yeah, I hope not.

• 20:52Stephanie Harlowe?

  I mean, it's just the age of the serial killer is over.

• 20:55Derrick Levasseur?

  Famous last words.

• 20:56Stephanie Harlowe?

  Undoubtedly, right? So, and, and now I will give you another little facet to think about. The FBI behavioral analysis people have talked to multiple serial killers. Okay, they've done this with multiple serial killers. Has it prevented anything?

• 21:12Derrick Levasseur?

  We don't know.

• 21:12Stephanie Harlowe?

  No.

• 21:13Derrick Levasseur?

  We don't know. We don't know that for sure. We don't know what knowledge and experience they've gained from speaking to these people and how they operate and how that's applicable to future cases. We don't know.

• 21:22Stephanie Harlowe?

  With serial killers, it's sort of about like identifying the kind of person who would do it. And it's, you can't just go out there and be like, well, Rex Huberman says that this kind of person could be a serial killer and this is like the MO. So let's just keep an eye on every single person who fits that profile. No, you still have to wait until somebody dies. And then you still have to wait till somebody else dies and then connect those two things to even figure out if that's what you're dealing with to begin with. And then by then you're going to have the forensics and the electronic paper trail and all that stuff that's going to, nobody can get around that now, right?

• 21:53Derrick Levasseur?

  Those definitely are bigger battles to entry for sure.

• 21:56Stephanie Harlowe?

  There's bigger things that I think we need to be worried about right now than keeping a serial killer alive so that we can learn from him. When, when really that's not even our, our main concern, I think, in law enforcement at this point. So that's just where I stand. I say electric chair, but.

• 22:14Derrick Levasseur?

  As I've said to you guys all the time, whether it's, whether it's here on a case we're covering, like we're talking about tragedy. And in some of these cases, many of them, we don't have answers. They're unsolved. So there's, there's two takeaways for me. Number one, this case perfectly exemplifies the fact that we have to separate hubris from intent. And when egos get involved with these cases and detectives feel like, hey, if I can't solve it, nobody can. That's how they get buried into the back evidence closet and they go unsolved just permanently. This case proves that allowing a second set of eyes and ears to look at the case from an objective perspective, even though

• 22:56Derrick Levasseur?

  you think everything has been done up to that point, there's a real opportunity to solve the case based on what you already have. That's number one. So when we have cases come forward where they've been stagnant for a while, law enforcement agencies, don't be afraid to allow independent parties, whether it's other police departments, federal authorities, or private investigators to come in and take a second look or a third look at what you have, you may be surprised at what they find. This is not the first time this has happened. It won't be the last. As far as how we go with Rex, well, from a judicial perspective, they're not going to kill him. So we have the option of letting him sit in prison and rot, which is a strong option,

• 23:36Derrick Levasseur?

  or trying to learn the methods and practices and processes that he used to avoid apprehension for so long. We may have the majority of it, but maybe there are some minimal things that we didn't think about or that we haven't discovered yet where he utilized those practices to avoid being detected by law enforcement. If we even get one kernel of information that can be utilized to, to catch the next guy, then I think it's worth it. Stephanie, you and I on a more surface level, because it's not the same level as, as an investigator, but we are kind of doing the same thing each and every week. We're covering these tragedies. There's not a ton that we can do. We can raise awareness for them. We can try to raise money through Criminal Coffee, but ultimately what we're doing is using this as a learning tool, learning about these tragedies,

• 24:21Derrick Levasseur?

  seeing what happened, not only from a civilian perspective. But just how law enforcement treated the case and trying to do better and applying it to future cases that we cover. The same thing could be said for these detectives where there's nothing they can do to change what happened. This guy is gonna live in prison for the rest of his life, unfortunately. So maybe without giving him any exposure, there's at least one or two things we can take from what he did and add it to our toolbox for the next case. I know that's a hard pill to swallow, but I think there's something there. And I honestly think in hindsight, if you were investigating this, as much as it would turn your stomach, if if I told you it could help prevent the next one or identify the next one, I think you would do it.

• 25:02Stephanie Harlowe?

  You'd have to prove that it could because

• 25:04Derrick Levasseur?

  There's no way to know.

• 25:04Stephanie Harlowe?

  I mean, of course, I want to know what Rex Heuermann has to say. That's my weird interest in true crime, and I'm interested in that. But does it benefit anybody? I don't know.

• 25:14Derrick Levasseur?

  We won't know.

• 25:14Stephanie Harlowe?

  We have tons and tons of serial killers. We've talked about over the course of doing Crime Weekly, tons and tons of serial killers. We know of talked to police, Tad Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer, all of these people have talked to the police, Ad Gein, they've all done it. We've all gone through it. So it's like, are they really any all that different, you know? Or is it coming from the same place, the same motivations? Why do we have to give Rex Heuermann what he wants, which is the ability to just talk about like his, his way of, you know, having his trophies still in in jail?

• 25:46Derrick Levasseur?

  But even think about these profilers, Stephanie, right? These profilers that are sitting down with them, where those are the people that when a serial killer case happens, right? Before we've apprehended the person, we ask them to develop a profile on who we should be looking for. Well, where does that profile come from? It comes from education. It comes from experience. It comes from sitting down with these monsters and learning what makes them tick. That makes them better profilers. So I agree with you in every sense of the word. Like if I hear even a whisper that Rex Heuermann is going to be giving like a jail cell phone call to a podcast or a news network, you're just as big of a scumbag for for giving him a platform, if that's even possible. I don't think it would be. But if it's behind closed

• 26:29Derrick Levasseur?

  doors with three, you know, four white walls with just a profiler and a couple investigators who are using this as a tool in the toolbox. I'll allow it, even though deep down, we know like you have, you've said, and you're right. He's getting some gratification out of the idea that he's being able to talk about what he did for the first time. I'm with you.

• 26:48Stephanie Harlowe?

  And that he's considered somebody who's worth talking to about it.

• 26:51Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, you're not wrong. I can't push back on it. You're not wrong. Let us know what you think, guys. This is a really fascinating conversation because there's no right answer. It's a trade off. It's a double edged sword. So what would you do? Separate yourself not only as a true crime consumer, but as a potential investigator. What would you do in this case? Do you lock him into a cell? Let him sit there and rot and look at the wall and talk to himself? Do you try to utilize what information he may have to help?

• 27:16Stephanie Harlowe?

  Think about it as if one of his victims was somebody close to you.

• 27:20Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, that's another perspective.

• 27:21Stephanie Harlowe?

  Think about it that way because I think we need to be thinking about it that way.

• 27:24Derrick Levasseur?

  If you're a victim's family member, do you want him talking to law enforcement? Wait in the comments, let us know if you're on YouTube way down below. By the way, the hype thing that you guys did on the last episode, we were just talking about it before we started recording. It's actually a big factor for the smaller channels and relatively speaking, we are a smaller channel compared to some of the channels out there. It actually allowed a lot more people to see our episodes. So if you're on YouTube, we appreciate you doing that. If you're on audio and you haven't already, please leave a comment. Please leave a review. We would greatly appreciate it. We will be back later this week with Tomahorford, part three. This is the third and final part, right?

• 27:57Stephanie Harlowe?

  Mm hmm. It is.

• 27:58Derrick Levasseur?

  It's been a fascinating series so far. Can't wait to get to the third part. Until then, everyone stays safe out there. We'll see you soon.

• 28:04Stephanie Harlowe?

  Bye.