Mackenzie Shirilla | New Netflix Doc ‘The Crash’ Reignites Debate

On July 31, 2022, Dominic Russo and Davion Flanagan were killed in Strongsville, Ohio, when Mackenzie Shirilla intentionally drove her car into a brick wall at over 100 mph. Both men were pronounced dead at the scene. Judge Nancy Margaret Russo found Shirilla guilty of 12 felony counts and sentenced her to two concurrent life sentences with the possibility of parole after 15 years.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:14Derrick Levasseur?

  Hey everyone, welcome back to Crime Weekly News. I'm Derek Levasseur.

• 0:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  And I'm Stephanie Harlow.

• 0:19Derrick Levasseur?

  And we're going to be talking about a case today that is all over the internet. Give you a quick summary here. On a summer morning in July of 2022, in the quiet suburb of Strongsville, Ohio, a black Toyota Camry made a slow deliberate turn down an industrial road and then accelerated. In less than half a mile, it hit 100 miles per hour. Seconds later, it slammed into the brick wall of a warehouse with such force that two young men inside were killed instantly. The driver, a 17-year-old, walked away with her life, and eventually, a murder conviction. Her name was Mackenzie Shirilla, and the boys in the car were her boyfriend, Dominic Russo, and his best friend, Davion Flanagan. And the question that prosecutors, investigators, and now Netflix have spent the last four

• 1:03Derrick Levasseur?

  years trying to answer is a simple one, but with a chilling answer. Was this a tragic accident, or was it murder? And before we start talking about it, shout out to my brother Matt, who is, who is watching our last, our Brandy Hall series. Like I said, he's a firefighter. I told him he was mentioned in it, so you know, he had to go watch it. And he agrees with everything we said, by the way. What Randall did that day, and as far as the, the communications and turning on his portable radio, absolutely. He's like, "Yeah dude, I have no investment. That guy was not in the building." But that's a side note.

• 1:35Stephanie Harlowe?

  That's a side note.

• 1:36Derrick Levasseur?

  And then, and then he switched it up and said, "Hey man, have you watched this documentary on Netflix yet?" And I'm like, "Oh, I'm not really into the, you know, true crime documentaries." And he's like, "You have to watch this. You have to watch it. It just came out. It's great." So I'm like, "Okay." I'll watch it. I'll let you know what I think. I watched it. It was really well done. The story itself is crazy. So then I, when Stephanie got home from her vacation, I'm like, hey, you have to watch this Netflix doc and we have to talk about it this week because everybody is going to be talking about it. And here we are.

• 2:08Stephanie Harlowe?

  And I did. I watched it.

• 2:09Derrick Levasseur?

  You did. And you were about to start talking about it on the phone. And I was like, wait, let's wait till we're recording.

• 2:14Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. Well, that's what I, because it's in my head and I'm like, I gotta talk this out. So basically, the documentary released May 15th, 2026, it's directed by Gareth Johnson, and it revisits this July 2022 incident in Strongsville, Ohio, where 17-year-old Mackenzie Shirilla drove her car at over 100 miles per hour into a brick building. It killed her boyfriend, Dominic Russo, and his friend, Davion Flanagan. So Mackenzie actually survived.

• 2:42Derrick Levasseur?

  Surprisingly, yeah.

• 2:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, which we're gonna talk about that. But she was convicted of murder in a 2023 bench trial. She actually chose the bench trial. And then she was sentenced to life with parole eligibility after 15 years.

• 2:57Derrick Levasseur?

  That's right.

• 2:57Stephanie Harlowe?

  So here's the backstory. All three of them, Dom and Mackenzie and Davion, they were at a party. So some people say it's a graduation party. Mackenzie refers to it as a sleepover.

• 3:12Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, that's what her friend Rosie did as well.

• 3:14Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, that's what they would do. They would kind of do these parties or get togethers, chill, hangouts, whatever. And they'd get together. And then it was around, I guess, 5:30 in the morning that Dom, Mackenzie, and Davion got into Mackenzie's car to, I guess, head back home. So Mackenzie was driving. Dom was in the passenger seat. Davion was in the back. And Mackenzie turned from Pearl Road onto Progress Drive. And this was a pretty normal sort of driving. It was controlled. It was deliberate.

• 3:50Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, she used her blinker.

• 3:51Stephanie Harlowe?

  Mm hmm. Yep. And then she somehow or the car accelerated to 100 miles per hour, which is crazy. And

• 4:01Derrick Levasseur?

  This isn't the longest road ever. It was, she pedal to the floor.

• 4:04Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, pedal to the metal. So. Now, we have this car accident and I watched the documentary and it opens up basically with body cam footage from the cops, having to let the parents of these kids know that their their children, their two sons are dead and that broke me. So right away, I'm like freaking Derek, man. Like I didn't, I just got home from vacation. I'm in an okay mindset and now you got me real messed up because uh, the one mother was like, you're lying, right? Like this is like, she couldn't

• 4:35Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, that was Mackenzie's mom. That was at the hospital. That was Mackenzie's mom and dad and basically they were saying, they were at the hospital because Mackenzie was there.

• 4:45Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yes.

• 4:46Derrick Levasseur?

  And they were asking who else, was she alone in the car? Were there other people? And they were very close with Dom. So obviously that's why they had that reaction.

• 4:52Stephanie Harlowe?

  And they, yeah, they, you know, you could just, you couldn't, I don't know. It was really, it was upsetting to see. So Mackenzie's in the hospital and she's the only one that survived. I read through the report and everything, the police report and when they got to the car as at the initial crime scene or accident scene, the police and the paramedics, they were like, this is one of the worst things we've ever seen ever. Davian was in the backseat, but from the force of the car, it looks like he kind of had flown upwards. So he was laying on top of Dom, who was sitting in the front seat and the passenger seat was reclined all the way back. So Dom was in the passenger seat.

• 5:32Stephanie Harlowe?

  And I think Davian was still alive when they, when they extracted them from the car and then they called in ambulances, but by the time the helicopter came, Davian had passed away. And Mackenzie gets brought to the hospital and then the police question her and she says she doesn't remember anything that happened.

• 5:53Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, she asked for a lawyer too, pretty quickly as well.

• 5:55Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, the parents, they were like, you know.

• 5:57Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, maybe we should have a lawyer.

• 5:58Stephanie Harlowe?

  And then, but then they gave her phone over to the police right away.

• 6:02Derrick Levasseur?

  Right. Well, it's, you know, not great. No, this, this incident uh, is very similar to an incident that I experienced as a police officer. Three students, high school students actually attended the same high school that I attended, speeding at night and came around a turn too fast at a telephone pole. And when we got there, driver, they were all crushed in the car. Two people in the car died. Driver survived. Uh, they hit on the passenger side of the pole and the back passenger was alive when we got there. And They didn't even know how bad it was, but before same exact thing within seconds, he was gone and it shook up the the community, especially our high school.

• 6:45Derrick Levasseur?

  So these are, this is the unfortunate thing as a patrolman that you could run into potentially. And you can see the reaction from the patrolman when he got there. He thinks he's responding to an accident and then he gets there and realizes what he just walked into.

• 6:58Stephanie Harlowe?

  He said, he said the car looked like it was almost cut in half.

• 7:00Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, yeah, it's split in two. Yeah. And there's a lot we could, we're going to talk about it all. There's a lot even from that body cam footage that you can dissect and then other body cam footage where you can start to put together a picture of what transpired, even though we also have a lot of footage from the entire, the entire night, including the accident itself, which I think is why this, this documentary is so compelling because you don't have to, you don't have to think about what it was or what happened.

• 7:27Stephanie Harlowe?

  You don't have to envision it in your head.

• 7:29Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. It's bad.

• 7:31Stephanie Harlowe?

  And I mean, initially, when something like this happens, right? You've got Mackenzie was 17 and Dom was 20 and I think that Davian was 19. So you've got some young kids and they just came from a, you know, a hangout or graduation party and you're thinking, well, alcohol, drugs, like something had to have been involved at play here. But pretty shortly after Mackenzie gets to the hospital and then the responding police officer goes to the hospital and he's told, okay, her blood alcohol level that she, she was not.

• 8:01Derrick Levasseur?

  Zero.

• 8:02Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. No alcohol's involved here. But then they found in, in her, in the car and on Mackenzie's person, they found marijuana and they found mushrooms. Yeah. Magic mushrooms, right? Silly stuff. And so then, then we're thinking, well, maybe drugs are involved.

• 8:16Derrick Levasseur?

  Right.

• 8:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  But then that comes back negative as well.

• 8:19Derrick Levasseur?

  She had THC in her system, but she was a habitual smoker. She smoked every single day. So that wouldn't have, that wouldn't have messed up her driving.

• 8:26Stephanie Harlowe?

  So they said she smoked every day and also drove while.

• 8:31Derrick Levasseur?

  They played a freaking montage in the Netflix doc of just her just smoking out of a bong.

• 8:35Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, they sure did. Yeah. Which is crazy to me to be that young that her parents were like. I we we understand she we know she's smoked. It's also weird. Okay, because

• 8:45Derrick Levasseur?

  Oh, God, here we go. The parents.

• 8:47Stephanie Harlowe?

  I know. Derek was like, I hate the parent. I'm not gonna tell you anything. I hate the parents. And I'm like, I am going in with an open mind. And and at first I was like, oh, they're not that bad. And then I was like, oh,

• 8:56Derrick Levasseur?

  No, they're just.

• 8:57Stephanie Harlowe?

  These are Casey Anthony's parents.

• 8:58Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, I mean, there was some.

• 9:00Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 9:00Derrick Levasseur?

  There was. They're enablers for sure. And then there's like this contradictory element to to to basically Mackenzie, where she's so concerned about her health and eating right and all these things. But and you know, you can, you can say what you want about weed, you know, some people believe in it, some people don't, whatever. But what we do know, because it was said in the doc, is that she was smoking so much that she had like black or blood coming up. And so she was actually on a a break from smoking because of it. So it's like, you're eating all this healthy food, but you're doing something that's making you sick, whatever.

• 9:29Stephanie Harlowe?

  It just kind of felt like they let her do whatever she wanted. So she's seventeen years old. They let her move in with her boyfriend.

• 9:36Derrick Levasseur?

  They said things like, oh, well, he had money.

• 9:38Stephanie Harlowe?

  He had money. Because we knew, you know, she likes money. She likes things. She likes designer things. Like, we knew that that boy had money. Yeah, mm mm. Don't like it.

• 9:48Derrick Levasseur?

  I I was like, these guys are morons. And then you'd go to the school. Did you do it? Oh, I know where my daughter's lying.

• 9:54Stephanie Harlowe?

  Oh, yeah, yeah. That's it. I was just about to say, they talk about like, she's getting in trouble for bullying. There's all these people like, she bullied me and my friends for no reason. And then they're like, yeah, we had to go to the school. And I said, Mackenzie, did you do it? And she was like, no, Daddy. Of course not. And he was like, and I know my daughter. She would never. I mean, and then her mother's like, she was a good kid. No problems, except for her mouth. It's like, well, yeah. So they're clearly enablers. Like I said, these are Casey Anthony's parents, the same kind of situation. And I get not wanting to be, you know, these authoritarian parents. But there is a point where you're like, all right, like, do am I trying to put a good person out into the world? Or am I trying to put a monster into the world? Now, here's the thing. She says she doesn't remember what happens. Okay?

• 10:39Derrick Levasseur?

  Right. She remembers turning on to the street.

• 10:41Stephanie Harlowe?

  She remembers turning on the street, and then it faded to black.

• 10:44Derrick Levasseur?

  That's it.

• 10:44Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay? So they start getting suspicious, though, because they had her phone now. And they're kind of like looking at stuff on the phone and they're kind of getting an idea of who she is and what she's all about. And then there comes, it comes to light that, hey, her and Dom, her boyfriend, were having some issues. And just that same month, she had been driving him in a car and a family friend had to go pick him up because they were fighting in the car and the family friend could hear Dom on the phone because he was in the car with Mackenzie still. And Mackenzie was like, I'm gonna crash his car.

• 11:16Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, hench.

• 11:16Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay. So, so the family friend, this was just a few weeks before this happened. So, but then you talk to people who were at the party, they were talked to and they said, yeah, Mackenzie and Dom weren't fighting, there was no issue.

• 11:27Derrick Levasseur?

  Rosie's another one. It was Rosie, basically.

• 11:30Stephanie Harlowe?

  Rosie, Rosie didn't want to talk to the police, man.

• 11:32Derrick Levasseur?

  Rosie's never talked to the prosecutor, doesn't want, you know, nothing to hide, but not willing to speak to anybody.

• 11:36Stephanie Harlowe?

  Except for Netflix.

• 11:38Derrick Levasseur?

  Okay, except for Netflix, yeah. Which the prosecutor was great on that, too. He's like, oh, she spoke to you. Can't wait to hear what she has to say. That's amazing.

• 11:45Stephanie Harlowe?

  He's like, we've been trying to talk to Rosie forever.

• 11:47Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah.

• 11:48Stephanie Harlowe?

  So here's the thing that really kind of ties everything in, right? Because you could look at it and you could say, all right, well, she was a kid, you know, she talks on her phone. They're fighting, they're young, whatever. That's not going to be this, this thing that's gonna kind of put, put the nail in her coffin. But then you've got the event data recorder.

• 12:09Derrick Levasseur?

  Basically, the black box of the car.

• 12:10Stephanie Harlowe?

  The black box of the car. And this captures the final five seconds before the impact. And this is the prosecution's centerpiece during the trial. So the accelerator was pressed at 100% capacity, like Derek said, pedal to the metal. And it was held there for an extended period of time.

• 12:29Derrick Levasseur?

  Yep, the entire time.

• 12:30Stephanie Harlowe?

  The brakes were never tapped, not once.

• 12:33Derrick Levasseur?

  Not once, yep.

• 12:34Stephanie Harlowe?

  Steering wheel turned slightly left, then right, before being straightened out for the final stretch into the building. And so investigators interpreted this back and forth steering as possible evidence that Dom and Davian tried to grab the wheel and force a hard right turn more than once to avoid the crash. As in, like, possibly Mackenzie was Stepping on the accelerator like I'm gonna crash this car and the two other passengers in the car were trying to prevent this from happening and surveillance footage from the surrounding businesses because this is an industrial area it backed that up so the car made a controlled deliberate turn and then accelerated for nearly half a mile before impact so now we have this data right but still okay and I want to talk about this data with

• 13:19Stephanie Harlowe?

  you Derek because I know you've you've looked at it and you've kind of analyzed it but still I'm not a hundred percent sold on what happened here and I'm going to tell you why but before we get into that let's take a break

• 13:35Stephanie Harlowe?

  you know what's funny sometimes the things that affect your day the most are the things you stop noticing you know the things you see and feel every single day

• 13:42Derrick Levasseur?

  like what

• 13:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  you know like bad bedding you get used to scratchy sheets flat pillows waking up too hot and you don't really realize how uncomfortable everything is until you finally replace it or you sleep in like a hotel and you're like wow this is way better than what I got going on at home and that's what happened when I switched to Bowlin Branch

• 14:02Derrick Levasseur?

  fair fair no I agree I felt an immediate difference when I had Bowlin Branch on my bed

• 14:08Stephanie Harlowe?

  I don't know what you have but I have the signature sheets they just feel different they're made from high quality organic materials so they have that really elevated hotel bed feeling

• 14:18Derrick Levasseur?

  yeah and can I just say the waffle blanket super underrated

• 14:21Stephanie Harlowe?

  I love the waffle blanket because it adds that cozy layered texture with a feeling like super heavy like you have a big comforter on you and everything somehow gets softer after every wash instead of wearing out so the sheets the waffle blanket usually when you keep washing things they kind of get like you know rougher or they start to wear down but not Bowlin Branch every time I wash it it gets better

• 14:45Derrick Levasseur?

  and don't underestimate that that's a rarity

• 14:47Stephanie Harlowe?

  exactly and most bedding feels great for about a month and then starts you know kind of falling apart it's got holes in it but this actually feels like an upgrade you're gonna notice every single night so honestly it made my whole bedroom feel more relaxing I get better sleep I feel like fancier it's one of those small changes that ends up improving your entire Routine.

• 15:06Derrick Levasseur?

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• 15:32Stephanie Harlowe?

  All right. So we're back. So Mackenzie, once again, she has no memory of this. And when we have her trial is only four days, I believe. So her mother testified that she had been diagnosed with POTS. So this is a nervous system disorder. It can cause sudden dizziness, blackouts. She had been diagnosed with POTS in 2017. And her mother was like, well, maybe this caused a medical emergency and she lost consciousness. But the judge of the bench trial didn't really buy it. And a lot of people have said, like, listen, if you're losing consciousness, how are you pushing your foot down on the gas, right?

• 16:13Derrick Levasseur?

  Contradictory. The two don't go hand in hand.

• 16:15Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 16:16Derrick Levasseur?

  You're either passing out and you're not in control of the vehicle, or you are. Make up your mind.

• 16:20Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, because this isn't, once again, this isn't even like, oh, I passed out and my foot, maybe I slumped forward and my foot slightly pushed down. It's like, no, all the way down. And at trial, Mackenzie's lawyer did raise this issue of the 2017 POTS diagnosis. This is something to do with like, your autonomic nervous system, blood pressure. It can, I looked into it, and I've heard about it before. It can cause sudden lightheadedness or brief blackouts. But here's the problem. Mackenzie did not testify. Her mother testified about it, but Mackenzie didn't testify. And the defense never put in actual expert medical testimony, like, forward during

• 17:00Stephanie Harlowe?

  that trial, showing that she had blacked out at the time of the crash. So here's another thing, though, because more stuff has happened after the trial. So I want to talk about this potential, this potential that she had, you know, a medical emergency, before we kind of get into it. So there is real medical evidence now pointing towards a possible blackout, or maybe even a seizure. But it is contested and it came after McKenzie's conviction. And so it's never been weighed against the prosecution's case in court. In April, the defense filed a supplemental post conviction relief petition built around this doctor, Dr. Kamal.

• 17:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  And Dr. Kamal had said that he looked at the medical evidence. And he's a neurologist at University Hospital in Cleveland. And his conclusion was that the evidence was consistent with loss of consciousness at the time of impact. And he pointed to three specific findings. Elevated lactate levels, abnormally low blood oxygen. I think if I remember correctly, her blood oxygen level was 82 and a normal blood oxygen level is 95. And then complete amnesia following the incident, which for me, that's not a specific finding because she could just say she has complete amnesia after the incident.

• 18:21Derrick Levasseur?

  That would be, that'd be the smart thing to do.

• 18:23Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, but Dr. Kamali is saying she's got elevated lactate levels and abnormally low blood oxygen. And then this to him says that these are classic markers of a seizure or a similar autonomic event. And the defense says, you know, this is actually the kind of expert evidence that McKenzie's original attorney should have presented, but they didn't. And so I could see an area where it's like you got a bad lawyer and they didn't prepare for trial and they should have put more evidence, like from experts and medical experts forward. And that may have changed the tide.

• 19:01Derrick Levasseur?

  Maybe.

• 19:01Stephanie Harlowe?

  But.

• 19:02Derrick Levasseur?

  I doubt it.

• 19:03Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, I mean, this was dismissed. So this post conviction relief petition was built around.

• 19:08Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, it was an appeal.

• 19:09Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, around the doctor's findings and the judge, Nancy Russo, rejected it, but not because it was not without merit. It's because the filing was submitted one day past the statutory deadline. So the court ruled it time barred as a matter of law, meaning like it couldn't go through.

• 19:29Derrick Levasseur?

  So there's, there's so much to unpack here. And I mean, we could talk about this. It was, it's borderline a crime weekly episode. So I'm gonna try to be concise. I may miss some things, but here's the problem with that whole theory. First, let's go back to the EDR. One other thing you you didn't mention was the fact that the shifter went from drive to neutral, back to drive. In addition to this left, right, left movement, and you can also see from the body cam footage that at the last moment, the vehicle veered to the right, even before the intersection, it went over the grass, then went on the road, and then went into the building. So there was movement at that last moment to try to do something, whatever it was, a fight over the wheel, whatever you have, there was something going on there. And I did a TikTok, I did

• 20:13Derrick Levasseur?

  an Instagram, even if we're looking at the EDR, in my Instagram and TikTok, I had said that I believed, and the prosecutor laid this out, that the movements of that steering wheel could indicate a struggle over the wheel. I'm gonna amend that a little bit, and I'm gonna tell you why. And this was something that I kinda came to this morning. If you look at Progress Drive, it's not that long of a road, and we kinda,

• 20:37Stephanie Harlowe?

  No, it's not, yeah.

• 20:38Derrick Levasseur?

  We're doing surface level here, but this camera footage of this whole thing, guys, if you haven't seen it, there's cameras all along this road up to the point where they hit the building.

• 20:45Stephanie Harlowe?

  Because it's surrounded by businesses, yeah.

• 20:47Derrick Levasseur?

  And so it's like an industrial area. And so this road's not that long, and what you'll notice is that Progress Drive, as they take a, as they take a right off of Pearl onto Progress, the road is mostly straight until about the last, maybe 300 feet before this intersection. And what you will notice, if we have, if you're watching on YouTube right now, is the Progress Drive, when it comes to this Almeida Drive, the intersection there, at the last moment, if you're traveling down this road, it kind of has a bend to it. And if you're driving the vehicle, you would have to go left, and then turn the real wheel right to straighten it back out, and then right a little bit more based on the angle they went. So when we think about five seconds at the rate of speed they were going,

• 21:32Derrick Levasseur?

  I think that five seconds is actually showing you that last little bend before going directly into the building. And what does that tell us? It contradicts the idea that there was someone behind the wheel who wasn't conscious. They consciously made that turn to go around that bend, so they would make it to the wall. Otherwise, they would have went up on the grass right at that bend, and they didn't. So I've amended my theory on what I think happened slightly to, I definitely think Davian and Dom were awake in the car. If you look at that footage when they're making the turn, there appears to be a light illuminating from the vehicle. It looks to me like it's the passenger side, which would suggest a phone that maybe Dom was on his phone.

• 22:14Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, Davian, all his friends said that he was talking to him on Snapchat, like, pretty much, yeah.

• 22:19Derrick Levasseur?

  And he could have had his phone out too, but what you're seeing in the camera footage, and obviously infrared's a little weird, but it looks to me like it's coming from the passenger seat. And so I think they're up. And by the way, they didn't have their their seatbelts on, I don't believe. However, Mackenzie did, which I guess she didn't normally wear her seatbelt. That's it. We're going to talk about that as well. But I think they're driving down that road. And as soon as she makes that turn, she steps on the gas and for the first like 15 seconds, they're rationalizing with her. What are you doing? Stop, slow down, don't be stupid. This isn't that serious. And it's not until the last second when they realize she's not going to stop. And I do think that's when someone grabs the steering wheel, snaps it to the right, and it hits the the building at that angle. But I think

• 23:01Derrick Levasseur?

  that first left, right, is actually Mackenzie adjusting the wheel, adjusting the vehicle to go around that bend on Progress Drive, which to me is even more damning to the idea that this was a medical emergency. Couple that with the fact that she had her foot to the floor, 100% acceleration the entire time is highly suggestive that she was doing that intentionally. If she had passed out, you would expect her to go limp. Even if she had a seizure, it would be intermittent. There'd be moments where it might be 95% pressure, 84% pressure, back to 100. It's consistent, the entire five seconds, 100% foot to the floor. And I think there's a lot there that says this was deliberate. The

• 23:46Derrick Levasseur?

  motive is a little gray. That's why it's so fascinating, because it doesn't make a lot of sense. And what I said in my my TikTok was, and this is speculative, and I want your opinion on this, Stephanie, and you guys weigh in in the comments as well, because everybody's different. I'm a night owl. Stephanie knows that. I sleep in. For me, they got to Rosie's house late, or the friend's house late. I don't know if it was Rosie's house, but Rosie was there.

• 24:09Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, they got there. It wasn't Rosie's house, but it was like 11:30.

• 24:12Derrick Levasseur?

  11:30 and originally they had asked her to bring shrooms and maybe some weed.

• 24:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  But then they said it, then they said by the time they thought about taking them, it was too late.

• 24:21Derrick Levasseur?

  Yes. So they came there. That's why they still had the shrooms in the car, right? Cause they didn't, they didn't eat them. And so to me, they get there late. They don't do the shrooms. They smoke a little weed. They watch TV, whatever they do. I find it odd that at five o'clock in the morning, they abruptly decide to leave and Davian says, I'm gonna go with him. I'm gonna go shower. I find that odd. You just got to bed a couple hours prior. You don't have anywhere to be in the morning. Why are you guys rushing to get out of there? It's completely just a guess on my part, but I do wonder if something happened or something was discovered or a conversation was had where there was an argument. And they were like, F it, we're getting out of here. Now, maybe that's why Rosie doesn't want to speak.

• 25:02Stephanie Harlowe?

  But if there was an argument, you know, it doesn't seem like that was kind of building up. Everybody said they were fine. So like, when did the argument start? Who, who started it? Who was it between?

• 25:14Derrick Levasseur?

  Right. But it could have been right at five in the morning where they're like, we're getting out of here.

• 25:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  The one friend whose, whose house it was, he said he went to bed and then he woke up around like three or four and Mackenzie was sleeping. And Davian was watching something on TV with another person. And then Dom wasn't, he didn't see Dom anywhere. And then he went back to bed and when he woke up later that morning, everybody was gone. So where was Dom at that point? When Davian's watching TV and Mackenzie's sleeping.

• 25:41Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. What happened? What did, did Mackenzie wake up and see something?

• 25:44Stephanie Harlowe?

  Did Dom sneak off with someone? Maybe because there was some allegations that he had cheated on Mackenzie.

• 25:51Derrick Levasseur?

  In the past.

• 25:52Stephanie Harlowe?

  In the past, when they first started. Yeah. And, and then Dom's mother had testified and said, hey, that Mackenzie was getting very like jealous and possessive of Dom in the weeks leading up to this, this car crash. So.

• 26:07Derrick Levasseur?

  Oh, look at some of the videos. She just was very manipulative. Took advantage of the situation of different person behind closed doors when she didn't know she was being recorded.

• 26:16Stephanie Harlowe?

  Very like materialistic, yeah.

• 26:18Derrick Levasseur?

  But to me, when we're trying to pinpoint when things went south, I do point to that five o'clock window. Also, unfortunately, we don't know what was being said in the car because everyone other than Mackenzie is dead. One other thing I wanted to point out that was, you know, the time constraints, you know, in these documentaries, but it was, it was, it was something that was brought up during court and that's the fact that this progress drive, it is on the way home and, and normally it can be a shortcut if there's traffic.

• 26:46Stephanie Harlowe?

  The cops said that some people use it as a shortcut and they usually don't go the speed limit, yeah.

• 26:51Derrick Levasseur?

  But here's the problem, right? The speed limit, I think was 25, 35, but here's the issue with this. If there's no traffic, it's not a shortcut. It actually would take longer to get to where they're going. So why take that road then that night? And I bring that up because.

• 27:05Stephanie Harlowe?

  Maybe if you want to avoid main roads and the police, you know, if you've had been smoking weed, I don't know.

• 27:11Derrick Levasseur?

  That's possible, or another, this is what the prosecutor said. They said that she had visited that street in the days prior to this incident. And to them, that could be an indication of premeditation. But at minimum, what I have said is there's a familiarity with that road. She would have known the T intersection was coming up. So you couldn't even go towards like reckless driving where she was just driving fast, not paying attention, didn't realize.

• 27:37Stephanie Harlowe?

  If you could prove premeditation, yeah.

• 27:39Derrick Levasseur?

  But I'm saying if there's no premeditation, I'm just saying she would know the road. Let's take a.

• 27:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, let's take a break and then I want to talk about this because I have issues with it, you know.

• 27:46Derrick Levasseur?

  I know you do.

• 27:47Stephanie Harlowe?

  She was convicted, she is in prison, she, she talked to Netflix from prison.

• 27:52Derrick Levasseur?

  Yes.

• 27:52Stephanie Harlowe?

  We thought we might get some, you know, monumental, no, she's like, I don't remember. She's like, I don't remember, let's take a break, we'll come back.

• 28:00Derrick Levasseur?

  There's, there's so much more to talk about.

• 28:05Stephanie Harlowe?

  I feel like every woman is constantly searching for the perfect bra, like the one that's comfortable, actually supportive, disappears under clothes, no bulges, no pinches, and somehow doesn't make you want to rip it off halfway through the day.

• 28:17Derrick Levasseur?

  I don't know from experience, but it seems like an impossible combination.

• 28:20Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, it is usually, but it honestly did feel impossible until I started wearing Skims. I love Skims. I talk about Skims all the time. And I love their underwear and I love their dresses. Like summer's coming up, so their long body fitting dresses are going to be my go to because they're comfortable. But the bra, I just went on vacation to a tropical location and I usually don't bring any bras because I'm like in a bathing suit the whole time. My Skims Ultimate Bra was the only bra I bought because, you know, just in case I wanted to wear one, I knew it was going to be comfortable. I knew it was going to be light. Their Ultimate Bra in the new everyday cotton fabric is amazing. I'm obsessed. It has that same signature lift and shape that everyone already loves

• 29:02Stephanie Harlowe?

  from the Ultimate Bra, but now it's softer and more breathable because of the cotton, which made it great for a really hot, sticky, humid environment.

• 29:10Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, and I know doing our merch designs all the time, you are definitely a cotton-only person.

• 29:16Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, I mean, I have sensitive skin and I get really like hot and itchy. I only wear cotton underwear, but finding a really good bra in cotton, it used to be a very, very hard task. Usually they either look bad, feel bulky, or don't support anything, but this one actually works under everything, especially t-shirts, which is important, and it's genuinely become the bra I reach for every day.

• 29:38Derrick Levasseur?

  Which does say a lot because you are picky. And so if you're saying, hey, this is the one I'm going with, that's Stephanie verified right there.

• 29:46Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, I'm all about comfort. Okay, so if you can get comfort and it looks good at the same time, this is one of those products where once you find it, you stop wanting to wear anything else. So I love Skims. Everything that Skims has, every time they come out with a new drop and I get an email, I'm like, do I need anything more? Yes, I do. Let me go check it out. So you can shop the everyday cotton and all of my favorite bras and underwear at skims.com. So after you place your order, be sure to let them know that we sent you. Select Podcast in the survey and then be sure to select our show Crime Weekly in the drop-down menu that follows. Once again, that is skims.com and then select Podcast in the survey and be sure to tell them Crime Weekly sent you.

• 30:30Stephanie Harlowe?

  We're back. So while I am with you every step of the way as far as the data goes, and it appears that this was intentional and that she hit on the gas. My, and you said the motive is kind of like, yeah, blurry. I agree. The motive is blurry. It's like, okay, you've been fighting. You've had, but you've been together four years. You live together. It probably is not the first rough patch you've had. And here's the thing, a hundred miles per hour into a brick wall. There was zero ability for Mackenzie to intentionally do that. And no for a fact that she would survive.

• 31:11Derrick Levasseur?

  Oh, no, I think she, I think she intentionally tried to kill herself.

• 31:13Stephanie Harlowe?

  You think she wanted to kill herself too?

• 31:16Derrick Levasseur?

  I do.

• 31:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  Really?

• 31:18Derrick Levasseur?

  I do. I think it was like, if I can't have you, nobody can. We'll die together. Romeo and Juliet type thing. Not exactly, but yeah, I think you can't, you can't, you can't think you're going to hit a wall at that speed and think you're going to survive.

• 31:28Stephanie Harlowe?

  And she's going to kill the friend too, like Davian?

• 31:32Derrick Levasseur?

  That, that is odd to me. And that is something else that the, his parents had talked about. Like if that was her plan, or even if it was just in that moment, why not let him out? Why, why not? Why would you take him with you?

• 31:42Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. And so here's my thing, like when, when she first got out of the car, when they extracted her and the, the paramedic was taking her vitals and he said she was confused. I guess the first thing she said was, how is Davian? That's the first thing she said. So it sounded like she was checking on him. So maybe her intention was, and that's why she had her seatbelt on, hoping to maybe survive it and just kill Dom. But she was worried about Davian. I don't know. Like, see to me, that's, she had, I'm not saying like, I know this girl and she had a lot to live for. She's 17, right? And, and she does technically have a lot to live for. So.

• 32:26Stephanie Harlowe?

  What could this possibly have been a thing where and and I listen, I've been in a car with someone like this before. It's abusive, it's manipulating, it's controlling. They use reckless driving to scare you.

• 32:39Derrick Levasseur?

  And it works because they're in complete control of your life at that point.

• 32:42Stephanie Harlowe?

  Control, exactly. Could it have been a thing where like a few weeks prior where she was like, I'm going to wreck this car just to kind of show her boyfriend Dom like I'm mad, you're bringing me to this place again, not intending to actually hit a wall like and I know you said that they the prosecution has evidence that she that she was possibly there before, which suggests premeditation. I just can't wrap my head around like, oh, I'm so mad at my boyfriend, I'm going to kill everyone in this car, including myself. That's very hard.

• 33:14Derrick Levasseur?

  In that case, you would expect that in that last moment, that there would be some attempt to not hit the wall, AKA hit the brake. No, all they did was, I think the veer of the steering wheel. Let's talk about reconstruction too, right? Because it goes into the what I'm gonna say here, the the slight veering off the road, that's not attempt, that's not her attempting to miss the wall. That's Davian or Dom grabbing the wheel. Because what we know from the way they were found, and you hit on this earlier, and I think this is fascinating, you have Dom in the front seat, you have Davian on top of him in the front seat. And then what's also interesting is that you have Mackenzie in the driver's side, but she's under the dashboard.

• 33:58Stephanie Harlowe?

  In in Dom's lap, basically, like under the passenger side dashboard.

• 34:02Derrick Levasseur?

  Oh, is it the passenger side? I thought she was still on the driver's side, but either way, that even makes it more compelling because if you know what you're about to do and your natural reaction is to brace for it as you're pushing your foot on the gas, you're going to duck down. And which way are you going to duck?

• 34:18Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay, so I'm gonna read, I'm gonna read from the police report. The responding officer ran to the driver's side, saw the legs and lower torso of what appeared to be the female driver. The upper half of the driver's body was on the passenger side underneath the passenger dashboard, which was caved in on top of her.

• 34:34Derrick Levasseur?

  So hear me out. Now we're getting somewhere. A second before you hit that wall, you know you're about to, you keep your foot on the gas.

• 34:41Stephanie Harlowe?

  And you and you get down.

• 34:42Derrick Levasseur?

  Lean over, and when you lean over, that's why the shifter goes into neutral for a second and then back to drive. It's your body crossing over the shifter. And then you hit the wall, but at no point do you hit the brake. And so she's bracing for it. Dom and Devian are fighting with her to try to get the steering wheel. That's why it veers to the right.

• 35:01Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, the passenger front seat was also lowered, reclined all the way back. So was Dom sleeping? What like?

• 35:06Derrick Levasseur?

  He might've been sitting like that. A lot of the times, even me back in the day, I'd have my seat all the way reclined back. But it seems to me like Devian being where he was, maybe he lunged forward to try to grab the steering wheel.

• 35:16Stephanie Harlowe?

  Cause he was found in the front passenger seat, right?

• 35:19Derrick Levasseur?

  Basically on top of Dom. And you guys got to remember this, like she's, you know, what? I don't even know, a hundred pounds soaking wet. She's tiny and you got a running back for the high school. Dom's a good sized kid, but yet they can't do much to her because she's got her foot on the gas.

• 35:33Stephanie Harlowe?

  She's in control. Yeah.

• 35:35Derrick Levasseur?

  She's got your life in her hands. And so there's not much you can do. You can't punch her in the face. It's going to cause you guys to crash. So at that moment, you're still hoping you can get out of it. Okay. And I think for me, when I look at it and I, and I said this, you know, it's not a hundred percent certainty what, what happened here. But I think with the totality of what we have, it leans in the, in the direction of this was deliberate. And that's why I think she got 15 years for Dom and 15 years for Devian. But what was important is that the judge made it concurrent, not consecutive. And that's important because it goes from a minimum sentence of 15 to 30 if she had went consecutive.

• 36:15Derrick Levasseur?

  And I think she's looking at it where she sees a young girl without any remorse. Her bonehead parents sitting behind her, trying to make excuses for her.

• 36:25Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, blindly believing everything she says.

• 36:27Derrick Levasseur?

  And knowing that this girl, if it wasn't for her, if she doesn't believe this was a medical issue, whether it was reckless driving, an argument, deliberate, whatever it was, she is the reason that those two boys are dead. And there's no way she could let her walk away from this without any consequences. So at minimum, she's got 15 years to think about what she did and hopefully mature. But I will say, based on the interview, she's not there yet.

• 36:53Stephanie Harlowe?

  So what do you think about the prosecution basically saying that they think she did it for attention? They kind of tried to make it, or at least the documentary kind of made it. seem like definitely showed no remorse, right? And I think that's where a lot of the hatred towards Mackenzie comes in.

• 37:08Derrick Levasseur?

  I mean, she was doing selfies like of dead people or like Halloween, three months after this happened.

• 37:13Stephanie Harlowe?

  And and trying to get like partnerships online. Like I'm excited. It reminded me of, uh, it reminded me a lot of Michelle Carter. I'm not sure if you are familiar with that. Uh, it's actually a New England case with Conrad Roy. The text messages, he was in the truck. She's like, kill yourself. And then she tried to use his death to be like my boyfriend and I'm devastating to get attention and.

• 37:35Derrick Levasseur?

  No doubt that is Mackenzie for sure. And that's why she's so unlikable.

• 37:39Stephanie Harlowe?

  Does that mean that she intentionally did it? Or is she capitalizing?

• 37:43Derrick Levasseur?

  I don't think if, I don't think you hit that wall thinking you're gonna survive.

• 37:47Stephanie Harlowe?

  It's really difficult for me and and this could just be me and and where I'm at to look at this girl and be like, she knowingly drove into a brick wall at a hundred miles per hour, not knowing that you're gonna walk out of there alive, right? Because, you know, the doc, the documentary kind of made it seem like she knew she was gonna walk out alive and she wanted to get the attention and this, this and that. She wanted to be a star. She wanted to be a model. She wanted to be a social media influencer. You'd have to know you were going to survive. How would you know that? How would you know that?

• 38:18Derrick Levasseur?

  There's no way you could.

• 38:19Stephanie Harlowe?

  Or that you wouldn't be like disabled, you know, good luck with your modeling career now when you're disfigured or the car caught on fire. You know, you don't know what's going to happen. Do they have information from her phone where she's like looking up? Oh, how can I survive a car crash? If they had that kind of stuff, which I would, you know, I, I watched the trial and I kind of went through each day. That doesn't look like they have that kind of stuff. It's so hard for me to look at this, this girl and say, this is what she intended. To either A, kill all three of them, or B, kill the two boys in the car with her and survive.

• 38:58Derrick Levasseur?

  To kind of summarize this, what do you think happened then? Because if it's not that, then you're leaning towards a medical episode and there's no evidence to support it.

• 39:05Stephanie Harlowe?

  I'm not leaning towards a medical episode.

• 39:08Derrick Levasseur?

  So what is it? You saw that camera footage. You see that car driving down that road. You see her, her slipper stuck to the floor pedal.

• 39:16Stephanie Harlowe?

  I'm I'm wondering if she was just trying to scare them and once again be manipulative, have like their lives in in her hands, feel powerful.

• 39:25Derrick Levasseur?

  She just misread the how much road she had left?

• 39:27Stephanie Harlowe?

  And she misread how, yeah, like maybe she, maybe it was dark, maybe she didn't see, maybe she wasn't familiar with the area, like, I don't know.

• 39:35Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, that they pushed back on that because she had driven that road before. I would say there is a possibility that she was trying to scare Dom because they were arguing.

• 39:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  Like she had done before, yeah.

• 39:44Derrick Levasseur?

  And she didn't anticipate how quickly that ending was coming to at the end of the road.

• 39:49Stephanie Harlowe?

  I mean, even if she's used to driving high, right, it's still dulls and slows down your reaction time, exactly. So, I mean, yeah, you you get high and smoke and drive all the time, but you don't get high and smoke and drive 100 miles per hour towards a brick wall all the time.

• 40:04Derrick Levasseur?

  No, no.

• 40:04Stephanie Harlowe?

  So that could have been something that she misread.

• 40:07Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, whatever the case, her actions, her conscious actions led to the death of these two young men. And when you look at that video, there's no other way to interpret this vehicle traveling at that rate of speed, but staying perfectly in the line on her side of the road and making those minor inputs to the steering wheel to stay on the road even at that bend, that to me is what really did her in. It's clear cut that she was conscious and in control of her vehicle.

• 40:34Stephanie Harlowe?

  It's very, it's fair, it's very messed up. Like you just, I don't like it. I don't like it.

• 40:39Derrick Levasseur?

  I got a question for you. It was posed to me online. I'm going to pose it to you and I'm posing it to everybody listening or watching right now. They made the decision to go with a bench trial over a jury trial. Knowing what you know now, do you think that was the right decision?

• 40:53Stephanie Harlowe?

  No, because I think there would have been somebody like me on the jury. Like there was somebody on Casey Anthony's jury, you know, who looks at this young girl and is like, I need to make sure 100% beyond a reasonable doubt that you sped, I mean, even it's it's still reckless endangerment one way or the other, right? But murder, you know, like I need to know beyond a reasonable doubt that this girl intended to kill these two people in the car with her.

• 41:20Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, and you you are right. Manslaughter would have been different than murder.

• 41:23Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, that's the same thing with with Casey Anthony, right? Didn't they, they they kind of overshot their coverage with what they were trying to charge her with and they didn't really have, they only really had the circumstantial evidence and that's why the jury had a hard time looking at Casey Anthony, how young she was and with the the evidence that they had and saying, yeah, let's throw this girl in in prison for the rest of her life for murder. So yeah, she definitely would have fared better with a jury trial, I think.

• 41:48Derrick Levasseur?

  I go back and forth on it. I think that her lawyers knew how unlikable she was and how unlikable her parents were. And a jury is more likely to go off a motion and you may have someone who sides with you, but you could also have a jury go, this kid just doesn't get it. And and find her guilty as well. I mean, we will never truly know.

• 42:09Stephanie Harlowe?

  The judge is still going to be the one that decides the sentencing though, right?

• 42:13Derrick Levasseur?

  It's side decides the sentencing, but I think they were hoping that the judge who's gonna in more than likely be more pragmatic and objective than a jury. I I would think that they thought, hey, if we just can present enough reasonable doubt, we're gonna get this whole thing thrown out. That was the hope.

• 42:30Stephanie Harlowe?

  There was no way that that was gonna get thrown out.

• 42:32Derrick Levasseur?

  The judge was not having it. She was not having it. And you know, the judge did say that she could spend the rest of her life in prison. I don't think she will. I think you'll get a lenient parole board.

• 42:42Stephanie Harlowe?

  Michelle Carter didn't.

• 42:44Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, although I will say parole in Ohio apparently is very difficult. But because of the gray area, the same reason we're covering it, the same reason Netflix did. There's some, there's some questions there. And I do think that'll be presented in 15 years to say, hey, I did not kill these people intentionally. I'm in here for a crime I did not commit. I done 15 years. I've learned my lesson. I'm 30 something years old now.

• 43:08Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, then she she'll have to come forward at some point and be like, yeah, I was trying to say, like, say, stop pretending you don't remember.

• 43:13Derrick Levasseur?

  I I mean, I think that's the safest bet for her.

• 43:15Stephanie Harlowe?

  Take some accountability here.

• 43:16Derrick Levasseur?

  I don't remember. She won't do it. She won't do it. She's gonna, she's gonna go to her grave saying she doesn't remember. I did see some things online that says that she may have said she saw orange lights right before hitting the wall. I don't know. She's definitely a liar. There's no doubt about it.

• 43:32Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay, Derek.

• 43:33Derrick Levasseur?

  I think when you look at her, there's something about her eyes to me. Sitting across from her and that and at that table in that prison, like, you just look at her and you could tell she's lying through her teeth. That's my opinion.

• 43:44Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay.

• 43:45Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah.

• 43:45Stephanie Harlowe?

  Usually I'm the one that's going this hard.

• 43:47Derrick Levasseur?

  I mean, listen, the Netflix did her dirty by leaving in there where she's got like this emotional kind of, you know, presentation to her. And then she looks over at the lawyer like, hey, anything else I gotta say real quick? It's almost like an actor.

• 43:59Stephanie Harlowe?

  Dude, Netflix does everyone dirty. And that's why it's so hard for me to like, take it. Cause I know what they do. I know what they do.

• 44:05Derrick Levasseur?

  That is fair. That is fair. They, they had a narrative that they wanted to put across.

• 44:09Stephanie Harlowe?

  They sure did.

• 44:10Derrick Levasseur?

  But I, from people online and people from that community, apparently there was even more.

• 44:15Stephanie Harlowe?

  Oh, I believe it.

• 44:16Derrick Levasseur?

  Even the incident that you referred to earlier, and this episode's getting long, but she, there was, at the end of the episode, Mackenzie's parents were like, oh, we have text messages saying that it was actually Dom putting her in danger. No, Dom opened the door because she was driving and was refusing to stop.

• 44:30Stephanie Harlowe?

  Oh, in the, the earlier July incident?

• 44:32Derrick Levasseur?

  Yes. And then, and then she tried to turn it back on him.

• 44:36Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, the friend said he saw a scuffle inside the car and that Mackenzie was like raising her hands at Dom.

• 44:41Derrick Levasseur?

  And he heard her say, I'll crash this car.

• 44:42Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what he says. That's what he says.

• 44:45Derrick Levasseur?

  That's what he says. And I mean, yeah, he could be, he could be.

• 44:48Stephanie Harlowe?

  He is Dom's mother's friend. So, okay. So, but that's what he says he heard. And so, yeah, it's just hard. Very young girl. I, I know teenage girls. To me, they're all kind of psychopaths. You know what I mean?

• 45:02Derrick Levasseur?

  Not all of them are driving into walls at a hundred miles per hour.

• 45:05Stephanie Harlowe?

  Their, their brains haven't developed. They're very selfish. And I don't mean just teenage girls, teenagers in general. Like their brains haven't developed. They're geared towards being selfish. So I don't like to say that girl's a psychopath. With Michelle Carter, I had no problem saying it because there were so many text messages. And to see her telling him to get back in the car when he said he was scared and wanted to get out, like honestly, Michelle Carter, who's already out of prison, by the way, she can, uh, she can F right off. But it's, it's, it's hard.

• 45:34Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, I'm glad you kind of took the other side on this one. I think you're gonna be in the minority.

• 45:37Stephanie Harlowe?

  I know, I know I am. And I'm probably gonna get destroyed and somebody's gonna be like, Miss Stephanie.

• 45:41Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, you're not saying she's not guilty of a crime.

• 45:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  I'm just saying it's hard.

• 45:44Derrick Levasseur?

  You're, you're saying that you didn't see intent proven here, which is a valid argument.

• 45:50Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 45:50Derrick Levasseur?

  It's a valid argument. I think they just built up a case and, and painted a picture and, and showed that there's no other way around it.

• 45:58Stephanie Harlowe?

  Unless you're absolutely an insane person who has no self-preservation. You're like, I'm gonna kill us all.

• 46:05Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah.

• 46:05Stephanie Harlowe?

  That's crazy.

• 46:06Derrick Levasseur?

  Thirty seconds, man. It could have been a crime, you know, just a heat of the moment thing. But I also think it's possible she just was scaring them and, and, uh...

• 46:15Stephanie Harlowe?

  I hope that's what it was.

• 46:17Derrick Levasseur?

  I mean, for me, just so it's very clear, I think she deliberately hit the wall. I would expect if hypothetically, I know we keep going back and forth here. If she was driving at a high rate of speed to scare them, and then unfortunately misread how much real estate she had left in the road, what would you expect to see when she realized that?

• 46:36Stephanie Harlowe?

  A jolt of the steering wheel right at the last, yeah.

• 46:39Derrick Levasseur?

  How about pressing the brake, Stephanie? What's your natural reaction when you're about to hit something? You hit the brake. Her foot was down to the floor on that gas pedal as it hit the wall. There was no attempt to stop.

• 46:51Stephanie Harlowe?

  I mean, it's hard sometimes. I think when you look at like what people do and you could never imagine doing that yourself, it's hard to, uh, wrap your head around it. So, I don't know. I'm gonna look more into it. Actually, I'm gonna look more into it. I've been reading more into it. That's what I was doing today before we sat down. So, I definitely want to look more into it and figure that out.

• 47:09Derrick Levasseur?

  We want to hear your thoughts on this one, guys. It's a polarizing case, hence the reason that Netflix covered it, and it's gonna get a lot of attention now. We, we wanted to cover it because we got Crime Con coming up in a week or so, and we know it's not, by the time we would be able to cover it, it'd be too long for, uh, a crime weekly. So, we covered it here. Let us know your thoughts on it. We'll be back later this week with part two of Carrie Farver. And so, we're gonna keep diving into it, because this is a tangled web.

• 47:38Stephanie Harlowe?

  What a tangled web we weave.

• 47:39Derrick Levasseur?

  Yep. Everyone stay safe. We'll see you later this week.

• 47:41Stephanie Harlowe?

  Bye, guys.