S3 Ep330: Amy Bradley: The FBI’s Most Disturbing Lead Yet (Part 3)

In the early morning hours of March 24, 1998, 23-year-old Amy Lynn Bradley vanished from the balcony of her family’s cabin aboard a Royal Caribbean cruise ship. Just a few hours earlier, she had been at a party, joking with her brother, dancing with the ship’s band, and planning out the next day’s adventure in Curaçao. By sunrise, Amy was gone. Her sandals were still on the balcony. Her cigarettes were missing. Her key card and license were gone too, but everything else had been left behind. What began as a family vacation quickly turned into a nightmare, and the moments leading up to Amy’s disappearance would raise questions that remain unanswered to this day. We're coming to CrimeCon Denver! Use our code CRIMEWEEKLY for 10% off your tickets!https://www.crimecon.com/CC25Try our coffee!! - www. CriminalCoffeeCo.comBecome a Patreon member -- > ｿ https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeeklyShop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> ｿ https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shopYoutube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcastWebsite: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.comInstagram: @CrimeWeeklyPodTwitter: @CrimeWeeklyPodFacebook: @CrimeWeeklyPodADS:1. https://www. RocketMoney.com/CrimeWeekly - Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and MORE today!2. https://www. SimpliSafe.com/CrimeWeekly - Get 50% off a new system with a Professional Monitoring Plan!3. https://www. SKIMS.com - After placing your order, let them know we sent you! 4. https://www. FactorMeals.com/CrimeWeekly50Off - Use code CRIMEWEEKLY50OFF for 50% off and FREE shipping on your first box! 5. https://www. ZipRecruiter.com/CrimeWeekly - Try ZipRecruiter for FREE!

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:12Stephanie Harlowe?

  Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Crime Weekly. I'm Stephanie Harlow.

• 0:15Derrick Levasseur?

  And I'm Derrick Levasseur.

• 0:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  Today, we're diving into part three of the Amy Bradley case, and it's really heating up.

• 0:22Derrick Levasseur?

  Heating up in the actual case, but also you guys are just, this Amy Bradley series just on the internet, it happened on Detective Perspective, too. Like, for as much as the information that's out there, there's a lot of people asking a lot of questions, because everybody's still searching for it, because this part two blew up even as far as our algorithm is concerned. So, that's the reason why you cover it, right? There's a need for it. People are not satisfied with the Netflix series. They want more information.

• 0:51Stephanie Harlowe?

  They really weren't. If that's something I've seen from the comments,

• 0:54Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah.

• 0:55Stephanie Harlowe?

  they really weren't satisfied.

• 0:56Derrick Levasseur?

  And even the people who thought they were, now or not, and I know some people have, and we expected this, some people have pushed back as far as Brad Bradley, and, you know, he's out there doing a lot of interviews, and he's trying to get information out there, and some people are with him, some people are a little wary of him. He has not reached out to us.

• 1:16Stephanie Harlowe?

  I'm a little wary. I'm a little wary of him.

• 1:17Derrick Levasseur?

  I think it's natural to be wary of everyone. We just covered that Crime Weekly news earlier this week, where the Cousins were, you know, and you have to question everything. That's part of it. You never can just take it for granted. We don't know these people personally. And so, we're gonna get a certain narrative that's conveyed to us publicly. It doesn't necessarily mean it's true. We have nothing to suggest that Brad, or his father, or Amy's mother is involved in anything nefarious here. But, it's important to try to find areas where we can back up what they're saying from impartial people, right? And unfortunately, with this case, there's not a lot of that. Any witnesses we do have, it's 6 o'clock in the morning, they've been drinking all night,

• 1:58Derrick Levasseur?

  and so, it's a little cloudy, but we're trying our best. We're putting everything out there. I think the big takeaway from part two, based on the comments on YouTube, Was the whole balcony door being open?

• 2:09Stephanie Harlowe?

  I did, I saw that, yeah. A lot of people, a lot of people were like, I always, when I'm on a cruise ship, sleep with my balcony door open. And I'm like, listen, I, once again, never been on a cruise ship.

• 2:18Derrick Levasseur?

  You saw, see, this is-

• 2:20Stephanie Harlowe?

  I saw a lot of comments, yeah.

• 2:22Derrick Levasseur?

  I saw a lot of people saying the opposite, saying you wouldn't leave that door open if you wanted, if you, unless you wanted to wake people up.

• 2:27Stephanie Harlowe?

  I saw a ton of people saying, I like it, you get a nice breeze, like the ocean sounds. And I was like, listen, I can't test this theory out, because I'm not gonna, not gonna go on a cruise ship, but-

• 2:36Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, you are if I'm going in the Conjuring House, but that's a different story for a different day. But, one thing maybe they would still agree with this on is, if you had the balcony door open, it would be very difficult to open your cabin door, because of the kind of the vacuum it creates where this pressure on the backside of that door. I didn't see anybody disagreeing with the notion that if you were sneaking out of the room, or you were just leaving the room without any, you know, malicious intentions or trying to, you know, be undetected, you would shut that balcony door as a courtesy to the people still sleeping in the room.

• 3:06Stephanie Harlowe?

  I suppose if you were sleeping in your room with the balcony door open, by the time you left to go onto the cruise ship, you would most likely close your balcony door before leaving. So maybe there's just not a lot of people who have opened the door while the balcony door is open at the same time to kind of notice that wind tunnel thing, right? Because-

• 3:25Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, I would definitely recommend, from the detective side of it, don't leave your balcony door open, because someone could enter your cabin while you're sleeping, just from the next door, the next balcony over. Uh, also, just to combat anybody saying, oh, it could have been a normal occurrence, don't forget, it was Amy's father who actually said, when he woke up, Amy was out on the balcony, and the door was closed. So at any point, you would have that balcony door open, it would be while you're out on the balcony. Not once you leave it.

• 3:52Stephanie Harlowe?

  I would agree.

• 3:53Derrick Levasseur?

  So that's, that's a big thing you have to consider here, is that the balcony door, according to the people who last saw her, was closed behind her. So the fact that it was now open, I think most people would deduce that if she was out on the balcony and decided to come back inside and go somewhere, she would have shut the balcony door, she would have opened it to come off the balcony, shut it behind her, and then left the cabin. And yet that balcony door was open.

• 4:16Stephanie Harlowe?

  I also saw a lot of comments about, oh, how Amy's dad, Ron, how his boss did way more for that family and to help find Amy until they kind of arranged things for them than Royal Caribbean ever did. And I agree, I was thinking, yeah, I was thinking, getting the private plane, getting them a hotel room, staying with them. Yeah. And I thought I said something along those lines, because that's exactly what I was thinking when we were filming last week. Because I was like, man, Royal Caribbean could have gotten them a hotel room. Royal Caribbean could have arranged for the travel.

• 4:45Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, they didn't, they didn't handle it right. They didn't handle it right. That, two things can be true, right? There may not be anything, or there may be something with Royal Caribbean or their crew members, but they, either way, they didn't handle this whole situation appropriately.

• 4:56Stephanie Harlowe?

  They definitely put their bottom line above a missing person, for sure, yeah.

• 4:59Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, I agree. And also the optics of it, right? The optics of it. So, one final thing I want to mention, a lot of comments as well about Amy's sexuality and whether it's important or not important. I can only speak for myself why I was interested in it. Obviously, Stephanie wrote the script and did the research, but for me, the reason it's interesting is because one of the theories is that she went to meet up with Yellow or someone else. If she's gay, she's probably not going to meet up with Yellow to hook up. That's just my assumption.

• 5:28Stephanie Harlowe?

  Unless they were just meeting as friends or to hang out more. But why would you want to hang out more at that time? I don't know.

• 5:34Derrick Levasseur?

  And I also wouldn't understand, like, she's a grown woman, right? She's 23 years old. She can do whatever she wants. Brad left her alone at the bar. So she could have stayed out and then came back to the room later. There would be no need to come to the room, make it seem like she's going to be in for the night, and then sneak out later. If she's just hanging out, having a couple drinks or-

• 5:53Stephanie Harlowe?

  Unless, unless Yellow was like, she was like, I'm going back to my room with my brother. Because maybe at that point, when Brad saw them, he was like, alright, let's go. And she's like, I'm going back to the room with my brother. And Yellow was like, well, you know, if you can't sleep later, this is where I'll be. Could have been something like that.

• 6:04Derrick Levasseur?

  Maybe. I just, it almost goes back to the Crime Weekly News, right? Like, what's more likely? What's more likely, I don't see her coming back to the room and then sneaking out back later and not shutting the balcony, but I just wanted to say the reason that we even talked about Amy's sexuality, it's for the, it's from the perspective of, why would she have left her room? She had her own cigarettes.

• 6:24Stephanie Harlowe?

  That's not the only reason we talked about it.

• 6:26Derrick Levasseur?

  No, I mean, for me, it's, it's the most important, I'm just talking about me. It's one of the most important things because I don't really care about her sexuality. What, the only reason it becomes important here is I'm trying to think about why she would have left the room and I kind of go down a list. The first reason would be she's not feeling well. I don't think that would be the reason because she had the balcony, she was out on the balcony. Uh, she wanted to go smoke a cigarette, wouldn't need to do that either. She can smoke it on the balcony. She had cigarettes on her, supposedly those are missing now, but she wouldn't need to go get cigarettes. From what I've read and what I've seen, she wasn't heavy into drugs, so I don't think she'd be sneaking out to use drugs at six in the morning. So the only other reason I could see her leaving the room would be to meet up with someone. So either it was yellow or someone else that she met while Brad was gone.

• 7:09Stephanie Harlowe?

  Or has nothing to do with meeting up with someone and she couldn't sleep and she was still hyped up because she had alcohol in her system.

• 7:15Derrick Levasseur?

  And just decided to walk around?

• 7:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, let me go get some coffee, let me sober up, let me go watch the sunrise from the top deck or something, you know? Could have nothing to do with meeting anybody. She was just restless, like I get restless on vacation.

• 7:27Derrick Levasseur?

  But she was sleeping.

• 7:29Stephanie Harlowe?

  She wasn't, well.

• 7:30Derrick Levasseur?

  They said she was sleeping on the balcony.

• 7:31Stephanie Harlowe?

  I mean.

• 7:32Derrick Levasseur?

  I mean, I'm go, I have no reason not to believe Ron, so she was sleeping, so she wasn't.

• 7:35Stephanie Harlowe?

  He could have woken up, saw her laying out there with her eyes closed. She could have just been laying out there with her eyes closed.

• 7:40Derrick Levasseur?

  Because she wasn't feeling well?

• 7:41Stephanie Harlowe?

  Taking it in, or just like rest, you know, like.

• 7:43Derrick Levasseur?

  I'd rather, I'd want to get some more detail on what Ron saw that day from, directly from him.

• 7:47Stephanie Harlowe?

  How long did he stare at her for? Ten minutes? No, it was probably a brief like look up, oh, she's laying there, she's still, her eyes are closed. Or maybe her face was even turned toward the ocean and he wouldn't even known whether her eyes were closed or open. He assumed she was sleeping because of the time. But I, you know, she very well, I get antsy. I don't like being in the hotel room when I'm on vacation. So I am not an early riser typically, or naturally, when I'm on vacation, I'm up. I want to go out and sit by the ocean, watch the sunrise. I want to take pictures. I want to be there, experience it. I paid money to be there. I'm not in my normal, I'm more like dopamine activated. I'm more mentally active because my normal um surroundings are not there. It's like a new thing and I'm excited and I want to get out and get going.

• 8:26Derrick Levasseur?

  I love how you have jazz hands as you're explaining your.

• 8:28Stephanie Harlowe?

  Get out and get going, you know.

• 8:29Derrick Levasseur?

  I'm like, okay.

• 8:30Stephanie Harlowe?

  I'm very restless. So even if I'm sitting on the balcony, I'm like, let me chill here for a minute, have a cigarette and then I'll go to bed. I'm gonna be like, I can't freaking go to bed. Like, what else? Let me go see what else is out there. I would be somebody who would go and want to watch the sunrise or get some coffee and just sit there and enjoy the peace and people watch. You're sitting on your balcony, it's just water. That's boring. Maybe she wanted to see them pull up to carousel, you know, I don't know. But it could be, it could be meeting, could be meeting no one, could just be her choice to walk out.

• 8:54Derrick Levasseur?

  Here's my thing though, if she was going to get a coffee, we would have documentation of that. We'd have a purchase receipt on her card.

• 9:00Stephanie Harlowe?

  She made it there, yeah. Aren't they all inclusive? Doesn't.

• 9:03Derrick Levasseur?

  No, you have to still swipe your card. And like, it's Starbucks on the cruises now, like for Royal Caribbean, there's a Starbucks there and you have to get a coffee. Or you could go to the um, the breakfast area, but you still have to scan into that area. So, a- again, we could do all the hypotheticals.

• 9:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  I'd be interested to know what kind of coffee breakfast places they had that were open at that time.

• 9:22Derrick Levasseur?

  It wouldn't be a lot.

• 9:23Stephanie Harlowe?

  She could have gone out and been like, oh, nothing's open yet. I'll go on the top deck, watch the sunrise and wait for the coffee place to open and then I'll go back to the cabin while everyone else is waking up.

• 9:31Derrick Levasseur?

  It's not impossible, not very probable as far as I'm concerned.

• 9:35Stephanie Harlowe?

  And, and one more point before we move on, we are also talking about her sexuality because of the way her family reacted to it.

• 9:42Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah.

• 9:42Stephanie Harlowe?

  And how they weren't really, you know, huge fans of it. So I think that's also important in context.

• 9:48Derrick Levasseur?

  But why is that, why is that important to you? Can you elaborate on that? Because for me, I'm not seeing it be, are you talking about a possible motive?

• 9:53Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, there could be a possible motive. Yes, there could be, right?

• 9:57Derrick Levasseur?

  But why wait till a cruise ship? If we're gonna, let's explore that. We're not trying to be offensive to anybody.

• 10:01Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay, can I, can I actually explore it?

• 10:03Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, let's do it.

• 10:04Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay, I'm allowed to explore it.

• 10:05Derrick Levasseur?

  I mean, listen, I think we could do it in a respectful way, but I think, I think, I think Amy's family wants to know what happened to Amy. And people have to explore all options. And that includes the last people with them. I don't think that's like a far stretch.

• 10:16Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay, so theoretically, hypothetically, hypothetically and theoretically and allegedly, Amy and Brad leave the club that night.

• 10:25Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, they're walking back. They've had some drinks, you know, you know, what having some drinks does to you. It's like a weird aggressive truth serum. And Brad's like, hey, I saw you talking to that guy. Like, I thought you were a lesbian. And she's like, yeah, I was just talking to him. Like, he's a cool guy, whatever. And he's like, I don't think you're a lesbian. And like, I think like, this is just something stupid, you know, like, you gotta really think about this. And then they start arguing. Maybe somebody gets shoved, maybe something gets physical. She goes overboard and he's like, oh shit. Allegedly, theoretically, supposedly, right? And now, now there's, uh, you know, some, and, and of course, maybe he's got her card then, like, who knows? But, anything could have happened. Like, they were walking, she set her purse down or whatever, they're arguing.

• 11:10Stephanie Harlowe?

  It's late, they've had drinks. Yeah, from that perspective, I think it's important to know that really this family was a little bit, not estranged, but there was tensions there based on, on Amy's sexuality and her being honest with her family. And she didn't feel great about the way they reacted to it. And there was kind of a little bit of, I guess, like denial on, on the behalf of the Bradleys as to whether or not this was actually true, or whether it was a phase, or whatever. But I think they were kind of hoping, like, it was a phase and it would just go away. And you, you know, somebody who is truly understanding of their own sexuality and having their family members like, oh, it's a phase, you don't really mean this, blah, blah. It can get kind of aggressive. It can get kind of.

• 11:52Derrick Levasseur?

  I mean, from what we hear, he wrote a three-page, the father wrote a three-page letter about his, his disapproval of this.

• 11:57Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, and you got Brad now even coming out and being like, oh, she wasn't a lesbian, she was bisexual.

• 12:02Derrick Levasseur?

  Which, which may be true, which may be.

• 12:03Stephanie Harlowe?

  Maybe true, but it's like, okay, if they're still talking about it, why shouldn't we?

• 12:08Derrick Levasseur?

  No, I think, I think, I have no issue as your partner in all of this, bringing that up. I think we would be doing a disservice if we didn't mention it. I think you would agree with, as of right now, there's nothing tangible that suggests that to be the case.

• 12:22Stephanie Harlowe?

  There's nothing tangible to suggest anything.

• 12:23Derrick Levasseur?

  I completely agree with you. I completely agree. You took the words out of my mouth. So, I'm with you on that. I, I, I don't think that's the most likely scenario, but I do think it's a possibility. There's nothing to rule it out. I would even go a step further and say, what if they're down at the bar? And she comes back to the room after and he's like, oh, I thought, you know, I thought you were gay or whatever and all this. And there's an argument in the room.

• 12:47Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. Oh, I see you talking to this guy. Like, yeah.

• 12:50Derrick Levasseur?

  There's a million scenarios. There was a couple of people in the comments who said, oh, she definitely left the room alone because her cigarettes were out of the room and no, her cigarettes could have been in her pocket and she went overboard. Right? This could be, at the end of the day, a tragic accident where there's no one responsible for her death other than just an unfortunate set of circumstances. So I have no issue with you bringing it up.

• 13:12Stephanie Harlowe?

  And listen, I'm not gonna say, I'm not gonna say that if this happened between Brad and Amy, that it was intentional. I don't believe that at all, but we know what happens when we drink.

• 13:21Derrick Levasseur?

  Not intentional, not premeditated.

• 13:23Stephanie Harlowe?

  No, no, no, no.

• 13:24Derrick Levasseur?

  At worst case, an accident potentially.

• 13:27Stephanie Harlowe?

  These tensions that were sort of under the surface coming up after, you know, you've been in close quarters with each other for a few days. Uh, maybe there's some like comments being made, then the whole thing and you got alcohol in you and all of a sudden you're kind of like pushing and shoving and yelling at each other and someone slips.

• 13:45Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, we have to take it a step further then because we can't just go halfway in this marathon. Right? If we're gonna explore it, we also have to talk about the fact then that if that happened, right? Either scenario, something happens outside the room on their way back.

• 13:56Stephanie Harlowe?

  That Ron says he saw her outside.

• 13:58Derrick Levasseur?

  Ron says he saw her. So if you're, if we're gonna say that, then we also have to acknowledge the fact that by saying that, either Ron is just completely wrong, which I don't think he is, or Ron is covering for Brad.

• 14:11Stephanie Harlowe?

  Or he could be mistaken or.

• 14:13Derrick Levasseur?

  How though? He gave that statement like, I saw her a couple hours ago, literally that morning.

• 14:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yes, it would probably be that Ron was covering for Brad or or Brad said, oh, I saw her sleeping out there and kind of maybe planted that in. I don't know.

• 14:25Derrick Levasseur?

  This wasn't a month later that he recalled seeing her at 5:30. That morning, he was like, yeah, I saw her on the balcony. The door was open. She was sleeping on the balcony. So I think he's, so it's either he's, that's what actually happened or he's, he's covering something up. And so those are the two scenarios, I will say, after saying all that, and maybe you agree with me, maybe you don't. I think that Ron did see her on the balcony. I think she was out there sleeping. I think Brad was in bed sleeping. We're in part three now. I think you guys know where I'm going with this, especially if you watch Detective Perspective. I think this was a tragic accident and we're gonna get more into it, why I think that.

• 14:58Stephanie Harlowe?

  I don't really know if he saw her sleeping out there, man. I really don't. It's such a weird, rando thing. Like I woke up, saw her sleeping, fell back asleep, just, you could have dreamed that. Like, it sounds like you woke up, opened your eyes, saw something with all this vivid detail, fell back asleep. It's just, it's hard for me to really believe that you could have, I mean, it could have been her shirt laying out there, or a towel.

• 15:19Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, he said he saw her legs. Like, he saw her legs out there.

• 15:21Stephanie Harlowe?

  Allegedly, I don't know, man. Did he? Did he?

• 15:24Derrick Levasseur?

  I have no reason not to believe him.

• 15:26Stephanie Harlowe?

  Did he think he did after? Cause he's trying to figure out, like, when did I last see her? Oh, I think I saw, I don't know. I don't know. But, we should dive into the actual...

• 15:33Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, we spent 20 minutes just on that, but...

• 15:35Stephanie Harlowe?

  Should we take a quick, let's take a quick break before we dive in, so I can have a little, like...

• 15:39Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, probably a good idea. Let's, let's reset the deck.

• 15:42Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, we can reset the deck. We'll be right back.

• 15:49Derrick Levasseur?

  Alright, we're back. Did you see what I did there, by the way? I don't think you picked up on the wittiness. Reset the deck.

• 15:54Stephanie Harlowe?

  Reset the deck, yeah, I got it.

• 15:55Derrick Levasseur?

  Okay, cool. Just making sure. Cause you didn't acknowledge it, and I was a little disappointed by that.

• 15:58Stephanie Harlowe?

  I giggled. I giggled. I was like, alright, alright. You're so clever.

• 16:02Derrick Levasseur?

  I would have liked, yeah, I would, I needed that. I needed that affirmation.

• 16:05Stephanie Harlowe?

  You're so funny.

• 16:06Derrick Levasseur?

  Thank you, thank you. Okay. No, I'm glad we did do that, though. It wasn't planned.

• 16:10Stephanie Harlowe?

  I've been wanting to get off my chest for the last two parts, okay?

• 16:13Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. Well, some people will be like, how dare you, they're victims, and more than likely they are.

• 16:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  I know, I know. It's just possible. We can't ignore possibilities because of the relations. Well, it's like, when crimes happen, it's, it's a lot of the time, not just some random stranger, a lot of the time, someone who knows you and is close to you. And there's like, passion, like anger and betrayal behind it. So, it would be stupid of us, and honestly, blind of us, to not even acknowledge that possibility.

• 16:41Derrick Levasseur?

  And listen, I don't mean anything disrespectful when I say what I'm about to say. I'm just talking about myself. Brad's gonna hear this and be pissed off by me saying it, but I'm gonna say it anyways, cause it's how I truly feel. When I initially heard this story and I heard that Brad went back to the room and, and his sister was left down there with these random people that she doesn't know, and that she had told Brad that he had came on to her, Yellow had came on to her. Me personally, and I've been on cruises with my sister, I just went on with one. I think you know me well enough to know if it were you, then you're not even my sister. I'm not leaving you down there alone. It ain't happening. We're going back to the room together. So either I'm sitting down there in the corner pissed.

• 17:20Stephanie Harlowe?

  You act like my personal security guard when we're out. You're like, yeah.

• 17:23Derrick Levasseur?

  I'm not doing it. And I'm not, and maybe I'm, I don't think that that's an anomaly. I think most people are like that, but we're on a cruise. Lot of people, it's three in the morning, drunk dudes everywhere.

• 17:32Stephanie Harlowe?

  There's water around you.

• 17:34Derrick Levasseur?

  I'm not, I'm not leaving you downstairs, even if you're cool with it. I'm gonna be the annoying brother sitting in the corner.

• 17:39Stephanie Harlowe?

  I wouldn't let you leave me anywhere on a cruise ship.

• 17:41Derrick Levasseur?

  Right. And so even if you're like, I'm good. I'm like, eh, are you though?

• 17:44Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, you've done that before. Absolutely.

• 17:46Derrick Levasseur?

  A hundred percent. So I say this directly to Brad, Brad, I mean, no offense. And maybe if you and I had the chance to sit down and talk, you may tell me that you acknowledge that and you have guilt over that. I'm sure you do. But those are things that we think about in hindsight that we have to talk about. And it doesn't suggest that you did anything wrong. We want, as much as you want to find out what happened, Amy, there's a lot of people with a lot of theories out there. I believe in my heart, after seeing a few interviews with you and interviews with your parents, you guys want nothing more than, than to know the truth. If that's an accident, great. That's the, that's an accident. But right now with the unknown, it leaves even more anguish than, than knowing what happened. And I think we all deserve to, to look at every corner of this case.

• 18:31Derrick Levasseur?

  And I know if something happened to someone that I care about, although it would bother me if detectives came to me and questioned me, as long as they didn't make it the, the main storyline, I would have no issue with it because I know it's something they have to do to, to cross things off the list. So that's, that's all we're doing. We're not gonna spend an entire episode on it. But I think we, we would be doing a disservice to this case if we didn't at least acknowledge it.

• 18:53Stephanie Harlowe?

  I'm interested to hear what you guys think about that possibility.

• 18:57Derrick Levasseur?

  For sure, for sure.

• 18:58Stephanie Harlowe?

  All right. So let's kind of recap what we talked about in part two. In the early morning hours of March 24th, 1998, Ron Bradley awoke to find his 23-year-old daughter, Amy Lynn Bradley, missing from the family's cabin on the Rhapsody of the Seas cruise ship. The balcony door was open, her sandals were still outside, but her cigarettes, key card, and ID were gone. Now, from the moment her family began searching the ship, it was clear something was wrong. Yet, the crew refused to delay the disembarkment into Curacao, or make more than a brief, low-volume announcement. The search that eventually followed was inconsistent at best. The captain told the Bradleys, the ship had been fully searched, but later they learned passenger cabins hadn't been checked at all. The family got off in Curacao

• 19:41Stephanie Harlowe?

  to search there, but by the next morning, they were convinced Amy might still be onboard the ship. So they intercepted the ship the following day, and FBI agents were allowed onboard. Agents looked through the Bradley cabin, they searched the ship, interviewed passengers and crew, and they began investigating reports that Amy and the musician, Alistair Yellow Douglas, had been seen going up the glass elevator between 5:30 and 6:00 a.m. on the morning she vanished.

• 20:07Derrick Levasseur?

  Real quick, before you continue, I just want to address something, because a lot of people were talking about it, and it's something on my notes, things that were missing. We have key card, ID, and cigarettes. So what we know with 100% certainty is that someone brought the key card into the room, her key card, right? And either Amy left with the key card and went somewhere else, or that key card went overboard. I won't even elaborate on how it went overboard, but it didn't leave that room, it went over the balcony. Whether that was with Amy or thrown over the balcony, those are your only two options. Over the balcony, out into the ocean, or Amy walked out of that room.

• 20:45Stephanie Harlowe?

  Or someone took it from her, and it just never has turned up again.

• 20:49Derrick Levasseur?

  No, but hear me out. Her key card was used to enter that cabin at 3:45. So-

• 20:53Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, but then allegedly, she left again.

• 20:55Derrick Levasseur?

  So, the key card goes into the room. So, once the key card's in the room, either she walks out with it, or someone who's in that room takes the key card and throws it into the ocean, because it was never found again. So that's my point, is that her cigarettes, key card, and ID were not in that room. So either she took it with her, or someone threw it overboard, or she went over with it.

• 21:19Stephanie Harlowe?

  Or, because there's other theories here, like the whole trafficking angle, she was kidnapped, abducted, and her belongings were taken from her, and then who knows what happened?

• 21:27Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, you're missing my point, though. That would go under the whole, her leaving the room voluntarily. Like, she left the room before being trafficked, if that's what happened. So that's what I'm saying. The two scenarios is back out the cabin door, or over the balcony.

• 21:38Stephanie Harlowe?

  Or over the balcony, yeah.

• 21:39Derrick Levasseur?

  That's it.

• 21:41Stephanie Harlowe?

  All right. So meanwhile, multiple searches on land and at sea turned up no sign of Amy Bradley or her belongings. By the 27th, the Bradleys were certain that she wasn't on the ship and she had not gone overboard or off the ship willingly. They had to return home to Virginia without her, but they were determined to keep searching. So as soon as the Bradleys were back in Virginia, Amy's parents, Ivan and Ron, turned their home into a command center, adding extra phone lines and internet connections so they could expand the search beyond the United States. At that point, all they knew for sure was that Amy had vanished sometime between 5:30 and 6:00 a.m. on the 24th, and that two witnesses had seen her with Yellow around that time. And those are the two girls who allegedly claimed they

• 22:26Stephanie Harlowe?

  saw Amy going up in the glass elevator with Yellow. Now, the Bradleys needed more leads, so they offered a $100,000 reward for information that would bring Amy home. They spoke to media outlets and local legislators, hoping to keep her story in the public eye. They sent mass emails to thousands of addresses in the Caribbean and South America, and contacted police, FBI offices, and cruise ship officials throughout the region. They also did some digging online, and at one point came across a post on a bulletin board published two weeks before their cruise. Now, this post warned female passengers on the Rhapsody to stay away from Yellow. So Yellow's the musician guy, Rhapsody of the Seas, same ship that

• 23:07Stephanie Harlowe?

  the Bradleys were on. As the weeks passed with no sign of Amy, the Bradleys raised the reward to $220,000. They also launched two websites dedicated to her case and set up a hotline with English and Spanish-speaking operators. By mid-April, there still weren't any solid leads. So Ron, Brad, Brad's uncle, and Amy's quote-unquote boyfriend, the guy she was allegedly dating.

• 23:34Stephanie Harlowe?

  They flew back to Curacao to search and hold a press conference. Iva, Amy's mother, she stayed home to man the phones and she also couldn't bring herself to go back and possibly have to leave a second time without Amy, which I can 100% understand.

• 23:49Derrick Levasseur?

  And listen, I also wish, oh man, there's so many people, I wish we could get this boyfriend and her ex-girlfriend on a joint episode because here's the reality. One of them's lying, or Amy was lying to both of them. That's the only scenarios, right? Because there's so much chatter about this online. Was she gay? Was she bi? Was she straight? The girlfriend says, without a doubt, she was gay.

• 24:15Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, the girlfriend also said, yeah, we both had boyfriends. It's like

• 24:17Derrick Levasseur?

  Kind of like a front. And now the boyfriend, if this is boyfriend, to be fair to him, he may have been under the impression that she was his girlfriend because again, to your point, it could have been a shield where things were just being put out there for optics to help hide who she truly had feelings for. But I would love to get these people in a room and really just break this down and get to the bottom of it once and for all.

• 24:39Stephanie Harlowe?

  I find the whole boyfriend thing very sketchy. Very, like, I'd like to know this boyfriend's connection to Amy's family. Was he a family friend? Was he a friend of Brad's? How did she meet him? Because how and how close were they? Because it kind of seemed like she was telling him, I want to slow things down. Like, I don't really want to go too fast with you. But he's still flying to Curacao with her family when she goes missing to like, sit and help them with a press conference? Like, they weren't engaged. They weren't going steady. They hadn't even, it sounds like, really gotten that deep because she was holding back. So that's weird to me. Like, was it a media thing? Like Brad or the Bradleys were like, hey dude, like, sit next to us.

• 25:21Stephanie Harlowe?

  That way, in case any, you know, talk about Amy's sexuality comes out later, we can just be like, her boyfriend was with us. She definitely was straight. What's the relationship there?

• 25:32Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, I'd want to go down that rabbit hole for sure.

• 25:35Stephanie Harlowe?

  At the press conference in Curacao, Ron and Brad spoke to reporters, making sure the public knew that Amy was still missing and sharing their frustrations over how Royal Caribbean had handled her disappearance. The media pressed for details, as they do, including whether Amy had been drinking the night she vanished. Ron said, yes, of course, everyone on the ship had been. It's a cruise ship. It's like mainly what there is to do. And according to the family's tab, Amy had seven light beers between 6:00 PM and 6:00 AM, which didn't seem excessive in his mind, in my mind either. That's not, especially because they had dinner that night, too. So she probably had a few things to drink at dinner, but...

• 26:14Derrick Levasseur?

  She's not the biggest person in the world, but yeah, I mean, six beers over that period of time, 12 hours.

• 26:19Stephanie Harlowe?

  Have you ever known anybody to get that drunk on light beer?

• 26:22Derrick Levasseur?

  I mean, I'm not a big beer drinker, so I'm the wrong person.

• 26:25Stephanie Harlowe?

  Same, I know. I don't like it, especially light beer. All right, so before the end of the press conference, Brad, this is Amy's brother, he pleaded directly for Amy's release, saying, quote, "If someone has her, please let her go. Leave her somewhere in the middle of the night, blindfolded. We won't ask any questions. You can remain anonymous, whatever. We just need her back." End quote. So afterward, Ron and Brad staged talk with reporters and hand out flyers, and that's when a man approached, holding one of Amy's flyers in his hand. He introduced himself as Deshi, a taxi driver, and asked Ron if he was Amy's father. When Ron said yes, Deshi pulled him aside and said, "Your daughter did not fall from the ship. Your daughter did not jump from the ship.

• 27:10Stephanie Harlowe?

  Your daughter was not thrown from the ship." And allegedly, he knew this because he had seen Amy on the island. Deshi went on to explain that on the morning of March 24th, he was sitting in his taxi outside the cruise port in Curacao. And this is a plausible story, right? Because the taxi drivers on Curacao are going to be very familiar with the schedule for when these cruise ships come in. This is how they make their living. This is a huge time, right? People are going to want to maybe take a taxi somewhere else on the island so they can, you know, enhance their, their short time there. So him and a bunch of other taxis are probably waiting. And he said as passengers were disembarking, he saw Amy. According to Deshie, she frantically knocked on his window and asked where to find a phone.

• 27:54Stephanie Harlowe?

  He pointed her in the right direction, but instead of going that way, he claims she turned and walked off in the opposite direction. Deshie told Ron that Amy was still on the island and he hoped that they would find her. He said, quote, "You need to go to a place called Coral Cliffs. You need to go to a place called Kadushy Cliffs. When you go to these places, you want to look around. Don't talk to anybody, just look, observe," end quote. Now, Deshie's statement marked a pivotal moment in the Bradley's search for Amy as it was the first time anyone claimed to have seen her after 6:00 a.m. Also, it's kind of the first time where I think the Bradleys are going to be like, oh, hey, like, they, there could have been something that made Amy get off the ship against her will. Something could have happened.

• 28:39Stephanie Harlowe?

  She could be in the hands of, of someone else. You know, I think this was kind of when the trafficking feelings started happening. So on top of that, Deshie's statement reinforced what the Bradleys had believed all along, that Amy was still alive. What do you think about this taxi driver thing?

• 28:55Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, so I didn't get the chance to interview him, so I'm gonna tread, I'm gonna tread lightly, but it's a little contradicting to me because if Amy had the ability to go up to this taxi driver and knock on the window and appeared to be alone, Deshie didn't state that she was with someone else, then that would mean that Amy got off the boat voluntarily, unless we're going to go down the hole of she was captured, she got away briefly, ran up to the window and then said, where's a phone? But to me, everyone in the comments, come at me if I'm wrong. If you were held against your will and you get off the boat and somehow you break away for a second. Me, I'm screaming at the top of my lungs. I'm staying around people. I'm not going to be asking where the nearest phone is.

• 29:40Derrick Levasseur?

  I'm going to be yelling in the middle of that area while everyone's getting off the boat to go to their excursion, saying, "Help, help, help. I just got away. Someone grabbed me." I'm going to be, everyone's going to know who I am in seconds. And yet, Deshie is saying that she came up to the taxi card, said, "Hey, where's your nearest phone?" Then goes in the opposite direction. And just looking at what you said here, he doesn't just say what he saw, which I always like with a witness, where they just say, "Listen, I don't know what it means. I was sitting here, but your daughter came up to me, knocked on the window. I told her where the phone is. She went the opposite direction. That's all I saw." But instead, he starts elaborating on where, places to explore and what he should do while he's there and don't talk to anyone, just observe.

• 30:20Derrick Levasseur?

  How would you know that, Deshie? If you're just an impartial witness who saw what you saw and you're just relaying what you saw to the family, how do you know about all these extracurricular things and locations where she could be? It sounds to me, just on the surface, like you want to be part of the story, or you know more than you're letting on. But if you know more than you're letting on, why are you ingraining yourself in the story where you can be implicated in something? So I have a lot of questions here. And that skepticism is not coming from a place of wanting to prove what I believe true. I read the statement before, and it bothered me then. So to hear it again right now, the way even you're describing it, it still sounds the same way I read it the first time. So I have some concerns about it. And even the narrative that if I believe everything he said,

• 31:03Derrick Levasseur?

  to think that's what Amy's behavior would be, if she got off the boat and was being held against her will, that would be her reaction? Hey, let me find a phone when there's hundreds of people standing within arm's reach of her? Also, there's no indication that she was unhappy with the current circumstances. She had at least one girlfriend and at least one boyfriend at home.

• 31:21Stephanie Harlowe?

  She was excited to get, she has everything back home, right? She's got an apartment. She's got a new pet, like.

• 31:27Derrick Levasseur?

  She's not trying to get away from anyone. So what is it, guys? What are we going with?

• 31:31Stephanie Harlowe?

  You know what else there's no confirmation of? That this Deshie dude even exists.

• 31:35Derrick Levasseur?

  Oh, so this statement, so Deshie was never interviewed by police officers? I didn't know that.

• 31:39Stephanie Harlowe?

  Not anywhere that I can find.

• 31:41Derrick Levasseur?

  So the only account of Deshie is from the father?

• 31:44Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yes.

• 31:44Derrick Levasseur?

  Okay, that's interesting. I did not know that. That also hurts. Now, because not even that Ron's lying, but did he, did he get the information correctly? Right? Like, what's his, his account of what Deshie told him? Is that exactly what Deshie said? And why hasn't Deshie come forward since?

• 31:59Stephanie Harlowe?

  It's giving me very much like. JonBenet Ramsey ransom letter, foreign faction, you know, kind of weird, like, "You should look at these cliffs and these bluffs and, you know, just don't talk to anybody while you're there." Like, very cloak and dagger, kind of like Liam Neeson Taken movie kind of stuff, like, very, "Somebody fabricated this." Was it, was it Deshie? Is Deshie even his real name? Was it potentially, allegedly, Ron Bradley? Because he wants to make people, not that I think that this would be, once again, to cover anything up, but hey, we believe Amy's here on this island, so we're gonna tell people that some dude approached us and told us Amy was on this island.

• 32:42Derrick Levasseur?

  To make sure the search enhances over here.

• 32:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  And that's why the story seems kind of like, you know, fictional?

• 32:47Derrick Levasseur?

  Let me ask you something. If you're Amy's mom, and someone approaches you, or Deshie approaches you, gives you all this information, what's the one thing you're doing before Deshie leaves?

• 32:56Stephanie Harlowe?

  I'm gonna, I don't know, get his information, his license, his, I'm gonna at least take the picture and be on his taxi.

• 33:02Derrick Levasseur?

  I'm gonna tell you right now, he ain't leaving my site until I'm holding him, I'm getting Brad or someone else to go get a police officer, that dude is my new best friend, because guess what? "Oh, you're a taxi driver? You gotta go? Here's a thousand dollars. You're driving me around for the day. You're not going anywhere."

• 33:20Stephanie Harlowe?

  You bring, you bring me to these places.

• 33:22Derrick Levasseur?

  You're not going anywhere until a law enforcement officer or an FBI agent sits down with you and talks to you.

• 33:28Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, they didn't say, "Hey, you gotta talk to the FBI, you gotta talk to the police." Like, they just kind of were like, "Thanks for the info. Bye, Deshie."

• 33:35Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, and by the way, if someone says, "Oh, he didn't want to talk to law enforcement," he wouldn't be approaching you publicly if that was the case. He would have made a phone call or whatever. If this person exists and they were exactly the way they were described, they're coming forward to help, well, then help. But to just take Deshie at face value for now, the story itself, it bothers me. It, you know, if we're going the traffic route.

• 33:55Stephanie Harlowe?

  It sounds weird.

• 33:56Derrick Levasseur?

  He would, she would have been incapacitated in a storage bin, in a car, whatever it might be, she would not be walking around the square or this common area where taxi cars are waiting to pick up passengers. Able to go up to a car and say, hey, where's the nearest phone? He's already found a person. There's your source of help right there. Help me, I'm being held captured right now. I just gotta wait for a second. Please, please help, help. Simple, right? Screaming at the top of your lungs.

• 34:19Stephanie Harlowe?

  Or even if you thought someone was following you, you would say that, right? I think someone's following me, like.

• 34:24Derrick Levasseur?

  And the people that are following you are gonna immediately turn around and run.

• 34:27Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, can I get in your car and call my mom or something?

• 34:30Derrick Levasseur?

  Right, right. You got people right there in front of you. There's, there's people from the cruise. There's passengers. There's, there's usually a common area when you get off the boat where just like everyone's there. It is usually like little shops and souvenir stands.

• 34:41Stephanie Harlowe?

  And no one else saw her getting off the boat either?

• 34:44Derrick Levasseur?

  It's sketchy.

• 34:45Stephanie Harlowe?

  It's questionable at best.

• 34:47Derrick Levasseur?

  But, I'm not ruling it out. I have no reason not to, but.

• 34:50Stephanie Harlowe?

  We're not ruling it out, but we're putting it in that kind of middle of the road box.

• 34:53Derrick Levasseur?

  I would need more concrete proof.

• 34:55Stephanie Harlowe?

  Could have happened, could not have happened, yeah.

• 34:58Derrick Levasseur?

  I would need Deshie to come forward.

• 34:59Stephanie Harlowe?

  And Deshie could just be some weird opportunist, right? We've seen them. It's just somebody who really has no motive. It's not like they even get anything from it. They just wanna, I don't know, insert themselves and be weird and feel like they're a part of something. It's weird.

• 35:13Derrick Levasseur?

  What did I say a couple of weeks ago? I had a case that I was covering where they knew the victim was dead, but didn't tell law, they didn't tell the public. And the mother knew the secret. After she found her daughter, they found her jawbone. She received a dozen tips from witnesses who wanted to help, saying, I just saw your daughter at the corner store. And, and now the mom at this point is taking these calls, knowing that her daughter's dead. So yes, it happens all the time.

• 35:40Stephanie Harlowe?

  And there's people that just confess to being serial killers who aren't the serial, like it's just, I don't know, I can't, the psychology of it, I'd have to look more into it.

• 35:48Derrick Levasseur?

  And listen, we're, we're going down a lot of different corridors here. It also could be as simple as a misidentification. Everything Deshie said could be true, but the woman he saw looked similar to Amy, but was not her.

• 35:59Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, I agree.

• 36:00Derrick Levasseur?

  That's also as simple as it could be.

• 36:02Stephanie Harlowe?

  All right, we're gonna take a quick break and then we're gonna talk about what the Bradleys did after hearing Deshie's random account.

• 36:13Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay, we're back. So after meeting with Deshie, the Bradleys went to Curacao's Harbor Police Chief John Mentar, and they told him what they'd learned. Now, they wanted to search the island for Amy, but Mentar warned it wasn't safe without law enforcement. He later explained to Netflix that outside the tourist areas, locals could be violent. He said the island had a lot of drug trafficking, as well as sex work and sex trafficking. And he believed it was possible Amy had been lured off the ship and trafficked. So to help keep the Bradley family safe, Mentar joined as they searched the areas that Deshie suggested. All of the places turned out to be isolated upscale beach areas with almost no guests, only staff. Which, by the way, wouldn't John Mentar have known that when they were telling him,

• 36:57Stephanie Harlowe?

  like, "Oh, we want to go to Coral Cliffs and the Kadushy Cliffs"? Wouldn't the Harbor Police Chief John Mentar, if he knows about all these violent areas, kind of know, like, "Hey, these are like upscale beach areas with almost no guests, only staff"?

• 37:10Derrick Levasseur?

  You would think so.

• 37:11Stephanie Harlowe?

  Wouldn't that have ring a bell for him?

• 37:12Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, you would think so.

• 37:13Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, Brad said, "These areas felt eerie and unsettling, but there was no sign of Amy." So they kept searching, checking everywhere they could think of. One night, while they were sitting at a busy intersection, Brad heard someone call his name in a voice he instantly recognized as Amy's. The street was chaotic with cars, pedestrians, and noise all around, but Brad was certain it was her. The group tried to follow the only car that could have been the source of the voice, leading to a fast, twisting pursuit through the streets. This is getting more like, hard to believe as we go through. How, how did you know which car could have been the only source of the voice? You said there's cars everywhere. It's chaotic. Cars, pedestrians, noise all around.

• 37:58Stephanie Harlowe?

  But now you're like, "But definitely, her voice definitely came from that car. We're going to pursue, and now we're going to have a wild chase, a wild car chase through the streets, the busy crowded streets of Curacao." This is getting more and more like taken every time we get further in it. Like, where is this coming from?

• 38:16Derrick Levasseur?

  Remember I gave a disclaimer at the beginning where I was like, "Some of the things that we're going to talk about are not in my episode"? This is one of those things where I just, I couldn't substantiate it and... I've been trying to give a little bit of leeway with everything when I was covering it to put the witness statements out there and all that stuff, but overall for me, it's exactly the way you're describing it. Like they're on this island and coincidentally this woman who's been trafficked, you just happen to be in an area where she's driving by and she yells out Brad.

• 38:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  And then you know exactly which car is coming from.

• 38:45Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, and I'll listen, if it's true, and we always have to, you know, acknowledge it could be, man, what a story, what a story and what a, a series of, of just missed opportunities and bad luck.

• 38:58Stephanie Harlowe?

  Should be a movie.

• 38:59Derrick Levasseur?

  It will be at some point, probably.

• 39:01Stephanie Harlowe?

  It already was. It's called Taken and Taken Two. Anyways.

• 39:04Derrick Levasseur?

  That's true.

• 39:04Stephanie Harlowe?

  Brad says when they finally caught up to the car, Amy wasn't inside. And he later said, quote, "So either we followed the wrong car or I heard what I wanted to hear. I don't know." End quote. And it's like, why if, if there was, if Amy wasn't in the car and, and this car has nothing to do with you, why are you like chasing it through the streets and why is it like running away from you?

• 39:25Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. And to be honest, I believe this occurred, but I also acknowledge that I think he probably heard what he wanted to hear. I think this actually, the situation actually took place. I just don't think it was Amy who was yelling his name.

• 39:36Stephanie Harlowe?

  Or it wasn't as like dramatic as it's being described. Like maybe they just saw a car and started following it. And it wasn't like that car didn't even know they were following it. And then it got parked somewhere to like stop and get a pack of cigarettes or something. And they were like, where's Amy? And the car was like, what? We've been following you for 20 minutes. I had no idea.

• 39:57Derrick Levasseur?

  It's dashy in the front seat. Hey guys.

• 39:59Stephanie Harlowe?

  It's dashy. So I do also want to note that the Netflix series ended up portraying this scene as happening on a quiet, isolated road, but Brad says, no, that's not true. They had been at a red light in a busy part of town, surrounded by traffic, people and businesses, which once again, how are you identifying which car her voice is coming from then? I don't know.

• 40:19Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, it's. I believe it happened. I think he's right in the fact that he probably just heard what he wanted to hear. If he's looking for his sister, he's hoping for anything and your mind can play tricks on you.

• 40:29Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, I could totally see that happening. So after nearly a week of searching the island, Amy still hadn't been found. Feeling like they'd exhausted their options, the family headed home empty handed again. During a layover in Miami, Ron and Brad learned that Chief Mentar had called Iva to say a body had been found on the island. A woman with brown hair they believed could be Amy, but it was going to take 24 hours to confirm. And Mentar would call back once he knew. When the call finally came, the family learned it wasn't her. Which at that point, I don't know what's worse, like thinking it could be her and thinking, okay, finally we'll have some movement. We'll be able to find out what happened to her and then finding out it's not her and knowing you're in the same place you were

• 41:10Stephanie Harlowe?

  before you got this call. I, you know, I, we've talked about this before. I'd rather know than not know. I'd rather have some, even if it's horrible news that she's gone, than to know that she's out there missing and anything could be happening to her.

• 41:27Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, the unknown is the worst. And that's why covering the unsolved cases, some people don't even want to hear them. Because just for the listener or viewer, they don't like leaving the episode with that lack of resolution. So yeah. If it's tough on you, the listener or viewer, imagine what it's like for the families.

• 41:44Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, I agree. And I mean, I think that sometimes listeners don't like it because there's a lack of closure. But that lack of closure, that cold case, that open case is important to talk about more than than a wrapped up case.

• 41:56Derrick Levasseur?

  Agreed.

• 41:57Stephanie Harlowe?

  This person's still out there or their murder's not solved or they're still missing. And the more eyes, the more ears, the more awareness, the better we have at moving this case towards a closed one.

• 42:07Derrick Levasseur?

  Couldn't couldn't agree more. That's why we do it. That's why you have to do it. And it's tough. It's not easy. And I think we're so conditioned, you were joking about Taken multiple times, but in those movies, there's always, there's always a happy ending.

• 42:18Stephanie Harlowe?

  Always a resolution. Yeah.

• 42:20Derrick Levasseur?

  There's a resolution. And so we're conditioned for that. And when you don't get that story arc like you do in these fictional movies, you can be left unsatisfied.

• 42:29Stephanie Harlowe?

  Your brain, yeah, your brain is like, wait.

• 42:31Derrick Levasseur?

  Yep. That's how it's supposed to happen.

• 42:33Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 42:34Derrick Levasseur?

  I need to know what happened and that not knowing for even us, just just consuming this, we have that feeling. So. Knowing that your loved one's out there somewhere, and you don't know if this was just an accident or something much more nefarious, that's something that you have to think about every single second of every day.

• 42:51Stephanie Harlowe?

  I can't take it. The stories of mothers with missing children, the children have been missing 20, 25 years, there's still no answers. That is, I think, the worst possible personal hell someone could live through. Just absolutely, it is my greatest fear. So, yeah, I can't do it. So the search continued with the Bradleys telling the FBI about Dashie's account. So now we know, at least according to the Bradleys, that they have told the harbor police, John Mentar, and also the FBI about what this Dashie guy said. So agents tried to corroborate his story, but they were unable to. Hoping to find more people who might have seen Amy on the island or somewhere else, the FBI partnered with America's Most Wanted to get the word out.

• 43:34Stephanie Harlowe?

  And at first, the broadcast didn't bring any strong leads, and over the next several months, there were very few developments. The Bradleys gave interview after interview, hoping to keep her story alive in the public's mind. When they weren't speaking to the media, they were conducting their own investigation. Their home remained the center of the search, and anytime the phone rang or an email came in, they rushed to answer, day or night, never knowing if it might be the break they were waiting for. By November, Amy had been missing for eight months. The FBI gave an update saying they hadn't been able to determine what happened to her. They said, quote, "We pursued every angle, from whether there was foul play, a suicide, or an accident, and we have basically not gotten anywhere," end quote. In December, America's Most Wanted re-aired their segment on Amy,

• 44:19Stephanie Harlowe?

  and this time, a Canadian scuba diver named David Carmichael was watching. When David Carmichael saw Amy's photo, along with details about her tattoos and piercings, he immediately recognized her as a woman he had seen four months earlier in August, on Playa Puerto Mari in Curacao.

• 44:39Stephanie Harlowe?

  David later testified about the sighting at a grand jury hearing, saying, quote, "We had just returned from a late afternoon dive in a dive location called Port of Maria. It's a dive location that's set up for divers and for people to go out and sort of swim, and they have a small cafe there. We were in the process of taking off our dive gear when I noticed three people walking up the beach. There were two guys and a girl, a white guy, a black guy, and the girl was trailing them. As they passed us, I turned around to my buddy, who was maybe 15 or 20 feet away from me, and I yelled to them and asked him if he had a piece of my dive gear. And just as I did that, they had passed me. This girl spun around, came right back towards me. She had her sunglasses up on her head. She stared right at me,

• 45:23Stephanie Harlowe?

  and just as she was about to say something, the black fellow came into my field of vision and motioned her away. He didn't touch her, he motioned her away. She turned around, put her head down, and followed them over to a small cafe area where they sat and ordered drinks. They were actually by the bar. She was facing outwards towards us, so every once in a while, she would sort of look over towards me and then look back down at the ground. At that point in time, my buddy and I went and got a beverage and sat down, end quote. David Carmichael said that they were far enough away from the woman and her group that they couldn't hear what they were talking about. David and his friend ended up leaving first, and he never saw the woman again." Now, I find this sort of account to be more possible because he testified about this in front of a grand jury.

• 46:08Stephanie Harlowe?

  So it's not like Deshie, who we don't even know exists. We know David Carmichael's a real person. If he's in front of a grand jury, it's very likely that law enforcement and, and, you know, the prosecution, the DA, whatever, verified that he was actually where he said he was in Kirasau at the time he said he was there.

• 46:25Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah.

• 46:26Stephanie Harlowe?

  Verified that there is this place for diving, there is this small bar, et cetera, et cetera. So these are all things that, that you can track and make sure that he's telling the truth about that. Now, it could have been Amy, could have been a completely different girl who looked like Amy.

• 46:41Derrick Levasseur?

  My issue has always been the scenario, just like with Deshie and now with David. Maybe my opinion or my perspective on what human trafficking would look like, even though I've had human trafficking cases, is skewed. My opinion, based on, we did a, a case a very long time ago, it was a massage parlor, and they were bringing women over from Asia.

• 47:03Stephanie Harlowe?

  Oh, you told me about this, yeah.

• 47:05Derrick Levasseur?

  This was many years ago, and so they sent me in as an undercover. I went in there to pose as a John getting a massage. It was illegal massages, or if you know what I mean, you know what I mean. And the, the women that were being held against their will were not walking around freely. They were held in the basement. They weren't allowed to leave. And when they left at the end of the day, they were all put into a van, brought to an apartment where they were not allowed to leave or walk around public areas. The only time they ever interacted with the public was for that short window where they were in the room with a John and they were under constant observation. So there wasn't really anyone at that moment that could save them. So to think that if Amy had been captured and was being held against her will,

• 47:48Derrick Levasseur?

  that she would be allowed to go out in public with an opportunity for her to get away, for her to get someone's attention, or for her to notify an authority figure in one of those instances. It seems highly unlikely to me, but I, I want to hear your opinion on it. And I definitely want to hear what people listening or viewing this think because maybe I'm wrong, but it just seems like if she was being held against her will and those individuals knew how many people were out looking for her, her, their families all over the news. This is not the person that they would let out in public because she could be seen by someone who saw one of the flyers.

• 48:23Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, I mean, this would have been several months after she went missing.

• 48:26Derrick Levasseur?

  That's what I'm saying. So they know how publicized it is.

• 48:29Stephanie Harlowe?

  Is it possible? Maybe they were meeting a John there. Maybe they were meeting somebody that they were selling her to. So that's why she was out in public and nobody had seen her before or after that in Curacao.

• 48:39Derrick Levasseur?

  Again, maybe I'm so conditioned by movies, but if I know that the world is out looking for the, and that her family is out there with a hundred thousand dollar reward on the line. I'm not letting her walk through this public area because all it takes is one person to go, hey, Amy, I know you. Are you okay? And the jig's up. It's over.

• 48:58Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, but I mean, at this point, listen, I don't think traffickers are super like.

• 49:02Derrick Levasseur?

  Smart?

• 49:02Stephanie Harlowe?

  Oh, yeah, or even, you know, I think they're kind of brazen in general. I think that's kind of part of the way that they're able to do what they do. And they're thinking, yeah, okay, someone sees her. And even if she's like, yeah, it's me, Amy. By the time they get a hold of her family, by the time they get a hold of law enforcement, we'll be long gone. Who cares if they see her? And what? And what they see her? And then even if they know what we look like and they happen to find us, they question us, say, were you with this girl? Nope, I have no idea what you're talking about.

• 49:29Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah.

• 49:30Stephanie Harlowe?

  So, you know, they're not, they're not super worried, I guess.

• 49:33Derrick Levasseur?

  I guess it could all be different. And I don't know these traffickers, if they exist like personally, and their, their MO could be different. But I remember the interview with one of the victims. And there was a Walgreens or CVS like 10 feet away from this house that they were being held in for these massages. And one of the women had described the fact that like she needed products, certain products, women products. And they wouldn't even allow her to go there to get them. They would say, hey, we'll go get them for you, but it would take them like a week to get them.

• 50:02Stephanie Harlowe?

  You're also talking about Rhode Island, the United States.

• 50:05Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah.

• 50:06Stephanie Harlowe?

  So like, yeah.

• 50:07Derrick Levasseur?

  Might be a little bit more loose.

• 50:08Stephanie Harlowe?

  Now this person's gonna go, yeah, this person's gonna go to CVS for feminine products and tell the person behind the counter, call the police right now. I'm being trafficked.

• 50:15Derrick Levasseur?

  Right.

• 50:15Stephanie Harlowe?

  Whereas in Curacao on some random like dive location. If somebody can even, even has the, you know, forethought to call the police and say they think they saw Amy Bradley. By the time the police get there, no one's there anymore.

• 50:28Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. No, you're not, you're not wrong. Listen, I'll acknowledge this because I, I'm not trying to skew any of you. If you're in the camp that she was trafficked or, or captured or taken against her will, whatever you want. The fact that you have two accounts now of people who had seen her, and this isn't going to be the only ones. The more you have, the more, the more ground I give you. Because it's like, okay, well, one person could have been wrong. Two people could have been wrong. You also had the people on the cruise ship that said they saw her in the morning. Are they all just mistaken?

• 50:58Stephanie Harlowe?

  Or the sightings on Curacao because it was so highly publicized because the flyer with her face on it was everywhere.

• 51:03Derrick Levasseur?

  Because there was a hundred thousand dollar reward and it's there's people out there who don't have money?

• 51:08Stephanie Harlowe?

  Two hundred and twenty thousand dollars by that point, yeah. Yeah, and also, hey, we're seeing her face everywhere, right? So now we're gonna see her face everywhere, even on girls that aren't her.

• 51:18Derrick Levasseur?

  Right, but I will, I acknowledge that, you know, you're gonna go to the end of this episode and say, "Oh, come on, Derek, all these people saw her, but you don't believe any of them?" That's not what I'm saying. I'm just acknowledging that there's evidence to me that's more suggestive of her never leaving the boat, but I do concede the fact that these, you know, multiple accounts of people seeing her is, is interesting.

• 51:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, speaking of the reward, so at the time, David, who's the diver guy, he hadn't heard about Amy's disappearance when he saw her at that cafe. But the encounter stuck with him because of the aggressive way the man had intervened on the beach, which the way he described it didn't really sound aggressive. He literally said he didn't touch her, he just motioned for her. You know, that could be just like a possessive boyfriend, like, "Why you about to talk to some other guy?" Kind of thing. It didn't sound that aggressive. But then David said when he saw the America's Most Wanted segment that December, he was certain the woman on the beach had been Amy. David believed it so strongly that he flew to Virginia to meet the Bradleys in person, despite not wanting the reward.

• 52:23Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, it's compelling. I read that and I was compelling.

• 52:26Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, he said he sat with the Bradleys and he described Amy in detail. Her green eyes and her Tasmanian devil tattoo, which is like, yeah, all those details were on her missing persons poster. It's not like, yeah, you didn't, you could have gotten those from the poster. He even identified a very specific watch she'd been wearing. Now, this was a detail that had never been shared publicly. Okay, so the segment re-aired in December. And he said this was about four months prior. And remember, Amy had short hair when she boarded Rhapsody of the Seas. So had her hair grown or were her captors making her keep it short? The way that she had looked when she went missing and the way she looked on her missing persons posters? I'd be curious about that because I'm pretty sure they'd be like, "Yeah, we're gonna let your hair grow. We're not gonna let you..."

• 53:10Stephanie Harlowe?

  Keep it in the same style you had it when you went missing.

• 53:14Derrick Levasseur?

  No, I, I agree. At that point, her hair would have grown slightly.

• 53:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  Mm hmm.

• 53:17Derrick Levasseur?

  I don't think they would want her to look similar to her posters.

• 53:20Stephanie Harlowe?

  More than slightly. It's been months.

• 53:22Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. Make her wear sunglasses or something to try to disguise her a little bit more. If you're gonna bring her out in public. Again, my biggest issue is I don't see them bringing her out in public like that. I just don't.

• 53:32Stephanie Harlowe?

  What about, what do you make about the he, him describing a specific watch she'd been wearing, which was a detail that had never been shared publicly?

• 53:38Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, no, I, that's, that's, this is what you're gonna hang your hat on. I don't have an answer for it. I don't. The, the only answer would be that he saw something that, you know, was, was accurate and that it was Amy.

• 53:49Stephanie Harlowe?

  I'm not gonna hang my hat on it, honestly, because that could have been planted in his head. I don't know. Like, he could have gotten that from anywhere. They could have, he could have sat down and met with the Bradleys and they were showing him pictures of Amy. They could have been showing him pictures of Amy that they took on the cruise ship altogether. I mean,

• 54:04Derrick Levasseur?

  They could have asked him, did you see her wearing this type of watch? But i- if you're in that camp, this is compelling information. I, I acknowledge it. I'm not trying to discredit it. I wasn't there for the initial interaction and interview with the Bradleys and David. But like you said, we, because it wasn't done by a professional, which would do things a lot differently. You don't know what was said and how it was portrayed or how it was presented to David, which could have influenced some of his answers.

• 54:29Stephanie Harlowe?

  And about the watch, according to the family's website, Amy's quote unquote boyfriend managed a restaurant and one of his suppliers had given him the Dosaki's watch. Dosaki's is a brand of, yeah. It's like, isn't that the Dosaki's man? Like, he's the most interesting man in the world. Yeah. So Amy had, had brought this watch on the cruise and she was wearing it when she disappeared. The Bradleys also said David's description of the black man on the beach matched yellow. So, once again, man, do we know that she brought the watch on the cruise? Do we know she was wearing it when she disappeared?

• 55:05Stephanie Harlowe?

  It's a Dosaki's watch. Like, what's it even look like? I would really, this whole watch thing, all of these things are suddenly, you know, we'd never heard about this watch before. When they're describing Amy and her being missing, was the watch a factor then? Or did it just kind of like get woven into the narrative afterwards?

• 55:24Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, I mean, listen, first off, if we were able to prove that this information was 100% accurate, meaning what David saw is without a doubt the truth, then I think we would all agree that Amy was trafficked and being held against her will. The problem is the source. And I'm not questioning David, I'm questioning all witnesses. We talk about it all the time. We don't know what he initially reported. Was there any confirmation bias on the part of the Bradleys? There's so many variables here. So, yes, on one hand, very compelling stuff. On the other hand, if this information was obtained in a way that may not be as accurate,

• 56:05Derrick Levasseur?

  then that's where the problem lies. But this is the thing that I struggled with on my series as far as, do I acknowledge this and put it at face value and say, yep, it's true? I'm gonna roll with it. Because if I did, then I would have come to a different conclusion. I ultimately decided that although I think David's heart is in the right place, it may have been a case of mistaken identity.

• 56:28Stephanie Harlowe?

  I've kind of looked online, just trying to see about this watch. And a lot of people said, listen, she was described as wearing a different watch when she went missing, but now they're saying she was wearing this Dosaki's watch.

• 56:40Derrick Levasseur?

  See, these are all the little things. And I also, by the way, if Yellow was involved, if he was like the conduit to get this woman off the boat to his partners on the island, the last thing he's gonna do when he knows he's being looked at is go hang out with her on the beach in Carousel where they could be seen together. That would be really freaking dumb.

• 57:01Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. And is he from Carousel? Does he live on Carousel? Why is he spending time on it? Why isn't he working?

• 57:07Derrick Levasseur?

  Even if he does, he's not gonna be anywhere near her.

• 57:09Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, he would kind of just sort of be the go-between guy, right? The guy in the cruise ship who delivers the girls to the people who are then going to... Yeah, why is he still with her?

• 57:18Derrick Levasseur?

  He's not gonna go hang out with her and allow someone to say, hey, not only did I see Amy, but I saw her with one of your suspects. Because he knows at that point, if there's a... Imagine someone takes a photo or something. Now detectives bring that to him. He's done. No way he would do that if he was involved.

• 57:37Stephanie Harlowe?

  I agree. It's weird. The whole thing is weird and it keeps getting weirder.

• 57:43Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, that's why we're covering it, right?

• 57:44Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah. All right. So let's take a quick break. We'll be right back.

• 57:52Stephanie Harlowe?

  We're back. So, okay, the information that the Bradleys got from David Carmichael, they passed that on to the FBI, who now had two separate witnesses placing Amy in Curacao. They now had to consider multiple questions. Was it really Amy being seen? And if so, how had she gotten off the ship and onto the island with no one else seeing her? Had she walked off willingly or been smuggled off? So the FBI looked into David's account, just as they had with the cab drivers. But in the end, they weren't able to corroborate either sighting. So months later, the Bradleys received a tip from a woman named Judith, who lived in Curacao. She claimed Amy was being held on the island inside a barbed wire compound, guarded by heavily armed Colombians.

• 58:37Stephanie Harlowe?

  Judith described Amy's tattoos in detail and said she was often seen with a man who had long blonde hair and a full sleeve of tattoos on one arm. The FBI and Curacao officials looked into Judith's claim, but once again, found no evidence of a crime. And without any evidence, they couldn't just storm the property looking for Amy. The Bradleys felt powerless about this tip until they received an email from a man named Frank Jones. So Frank Jones introduced himself as a former US Army Special Forces officer with a team of ex-army Rangers and ex-Navy SEALs who conducted special operations in the civilian world. He told Amy's mother, Iva, that they could rescue Amy from the compound. He said he would put Amy on his own back and swim her out of there if he had to.

• 59:21Stephanie Harlowe?

  And obviously, it's Liam Neeson. It's exactly what the Bradleys wanted to hear. It's exactly what they needed. Some guy who has the skill set and the knowledge to break into this armed Colombian compound, barbed wire compound, and rescue Amy from all of these bad guys. Shoot his way out of there, whatever he's got to do. So according to the family's website, Jones suggested they hire him in a private investigator role. He'd gather intelligence from the guarded compound and report back. He seemed legitimate. So they agreed. Jones was initially paid $24,000 to send operatives to Curacao. He claimed a two man team had located Amy and her captors,

• 1:00:06Stephanie Harlowe?

  but after following them to another location, they came under fire from about 10 armed men and lost track of her. Jones said that she'd been moved after that and he needed $86,000 to keep searching. So here's what I think happened. I think this lady who called and said, oh, this Judith lady, she called and said, oh, Amy's being held in this barbed wire compound by armed Colombians. Her and this dude Jones are working in concert with each other. She plants the seed and he comes in as the perfect answer to their problems and just starts milking money from them.

• 1:00:47Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, they're scammers. No doubt about it. And then this is the problem. This is the problem with offering these big rewards, right? Because now all these opportunists know you have money. And I know a lot of you who are good people are saying, why would anybody do that? Trust me, there are many people that would that see a family that's desperate and will do anything to find their loved one. And that's why you also, to a lesser degree, have to question these witness statements because it could be someone who wants to believe they saw her because they're looking for a lottery ticket. You know, so they're out there hoping, hey, listen, if this is right, if I'm right, I could be rich. $100,000 back then, if you're living on an island like Curacao.

• 1:01:32Stephanie Harlowe?

  Especially, yeah.

• 1:01:32Derrick Levasseur?

  It's a lot of money. It's a lot of money. So, yeah, this guy, but these people are straight up scammers.

• 1:01:38Stephanie Harlowe?

  I think they must be, yeah.

• 1:01:39Derrick Levasseur?

  Oh, no doubt.

• 1:01:39Stephanie Harlowe?

  It reminds me of Annie, you know, when Rooster and then his little blonde girlfriend pretended to be Annie's parents so they could, yeah, it's just the same thing, like there's con artists out there and they work in teams and in groups to run the ultimate con. And that's what was happening there. And when-

• 1:01:55Derrick Levasseur?

  That's exactly what's happening here. I can't speak to the witnesses before that, but definitely these guys.

• 1:02:00Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, and they already, he got 24,000 and then what does he ask for next? 86,000?

• 1:02:05Derrick Levasseur?

  Exactly 100 grand.

• 1:02:07Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:07Derrick Levasseur?

  Coincidentally, just exactly what, you know, 100 grand, which was the initial reward and obviously it went up from there.

• 1:02:13Stephanie Harlowe?

  At this point, the Bradleys asked for proof that Amy was still on the island. Jones then sent a photograph of a woman on a beach with a man who had long blonde hair and tattoos. The woman's wide brimmed hat obscured her face, but her tattoos, a Tasmanian devil on her shoulder and another on her ankle, appeared to match Amy's. This woman really appeared to be Amy. Iva later recalled, quote, "When I got the pictures, I knew Amy was okay and it was just a matter of time," end quote. I feel so bad because they could have faked those tattoos so easily, oh, so easily. I mean, obviously, you took $24,000 from them initially so you could send operatives out there to monitor the compound. And those operatives are obviously going to be taking pictures.

• 1:02:55Stephanie Harlowe?

  You, that's the only picture you got to confirm that Amy was there? You said you confirmed she was there, right? But then you got into some wild shootout and they moved her because they knew you were there for her, apparently, not any of the other women they have there at this huge armed, wire-rimmed compound. It's ridiculous. And now they're moving Amy and you need more. You don't have any other pictures from when you're, all the time your operatives spent there, taking pictures and gathering intel? Just ridiculous. So the Bradleys had to be 100% sure that the photo was of Amy before they sent more money, especially that much more. So they had the photo examined and in the end, they were told it appeared to be authentic. That doesn't mean that the tattoos are authentic, but convinced that Jones was being truthful,

• 1:03:40Stephanie Harlowe?

  they sent him another $100,000, which came from the Amy Bradley Fund at a nonprofit that managed restricted funds for search and recovery costs. After that payment, Jones told the Bradleys that he and the team were ready to carry out their mission and rescue Amy. He directed the Bradleys to travel to Florida and wait for his call. Ron's boss had a jet on standby to fly them to Curacao the moment the mission was complete. Shout out to Ron's boss again.

• 1:04:06Derrick Levasseur?

  Yep.

• 1:04:06Stephanie Harlowe?

  He's a real one. Yep. The Bradley stayed in Florida for a week, but you know what?

• 1:04:10Derrick Levasseur?

  No, what?

• 1:04:11Stephanie Harlowe?

  A call from Jones. Yeah, a call from Jones never came.

• 1:04:13Derrick Levasseur?

  Oh, he didn't call?

• 1:04:15Stephanie Harlowe?

  He ghosted. He ghosted. Yeah, disgusting, absolutely disgusting. Meanwhile, in Curacao, one of Jones's team members, Timothy Buckholz, a former Army Special Forces sniper, began to question the operation. He'd been assigned to watch the compound where Amy was supposedly held, but he only saw what looked like a normal family living there. Then, while at a bar, Buckholz overheard Jones on the phone telling the Bradleys that his men were actively watching the house, and Buckholz realized it was a scam and contacted the family directly. Obviously, the Bradleys were devastated of the amount of money that they gave this guy, that they could have used for true and genuine search and rescue. So, a federal investigation into Jones began, and agents learned that he had never served

• 1:04:59Stephanie Harlowe?

  in the Special Forces, surprise, surprise, only in the Army Reserves as a chemical corps captain and staff officer. His employees confirmed that everything Jones had told the family was a lie. Even Judith's story was false. She'd been paid about $8,000 to claim she'd see Amy in the compound. So, he gets $100,000, she gets $8,000.

• 1:05:18Derrick Levasseur?

  Yep. She probably got a little piece of the $100,000, too, maybe, who knows?

• 1:05:22Stephanie Harlowe?

  I doubt it. Her part was already done.

• 1:05:25Derrick Levasseur?

  One phone call, $8,000?

• 1:05:27Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, disgusting. So, investigators further learned that when the Bradleys asked for photographic proof, Jones had to fake it. So, he convinced a woman to get temporary tattoos matching Amy's, and then posed her on a beach near Pensacola, Florida, not even Curacao, and photographed her from behind while a male acquaintance stood nearby in a blonde wig, posing as the supposed kidnapper.

• 1:05:50Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, so that's the lengths people will go to. So, it's not when you're like, "Oh, my God, I can't believe it." Yeah, people out there will do this. It happens.

• 1:05:57Stephanie Harlowe?

  After the investigation concluded, Jones was charged with defrauding the Bradleys and the nonprofit. He ultimately pleaded guilty to mail fraud and was sentenced to five years in prison. The experience obviously left the Bradleys emotionally wrecked. When asked why they had trusted Jones and given him so much money, Ron said they had no choice. He asked, quote, "I mean, what else do you do? If it was your child, what would you do? So, I guess we took a chance, and I guess we lost," end quote. Yeah, of course, they're desperate. That's why these people target them. Not only are they desperate, but you've advertised to the world, and that no fault of the Bradleys, they want their daughter back, but you've advertised to the world you have enough money to offer a very large reward. Usually, rewards don't start off at $100,000.

• 1:06:40Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, and I do want to point out, and it's not 100% guaranteed, but...

• 1:06:46Derrick Levasseur?

  I do think this is an indication that the Bradleys didn't have anything to do with what happened to Amy. I know we we entertained that idea, but they would be able to quickly discern that this guy's not

• 1:06:59Stephanie Harlowe?

  Not Ron and Iva, yeah.

• 1:07:00Derrick Levasseur?

  Not Ron and Iva, definitely, because this would be really going above and beyond to sell this story. You don't need to give this guy random money. You could have given him a couple of grand and said, oh, you know what? We don't believe you. There's something not adding up here. But they were really into it. They believed that that was Amy, and that's why they got the money together and gave him a ton of cash to bring their daughter home. And they were they were misled and they were taken advantage of. But even though we entertained it in the beginning, that's why I said Ron saying that he saw Amy on that balcony, either he's completely wrong, or he's telling the truth, and that's what he saw. And so that's where I'm at on this. But yes, all this money, all the resources, all the time, all the effort that's being put into this. That's why I think most people

• 1:07:44Derrick Levasseur?

  have already come to the conclusion that the Bradleys are not involved with this. Now, I know Brad's a little bit more different. I know you might you're still entertaining that. I don't think he's involved either. I really, really don't. I think they're telling the truth. And I think they maybe believe that Amy's still on the island somewhere, but that may be coming from a place where they want to believe it. And that's why they were taken advantage of here.

• 1:08:05Stephanie Harlowe?

  And I mean, seeing her sleeping on the balcony could also come from a place of wanting to believe it. So what I'm saying is, you said you believe that Ron saw her sleeping on the balcony.

• 1:08:14Derrick Levasseur?

  I do.

• 1:08:14Stephanie Harlowe?

  But Ron, Ron also said that the door to the balcony was open when he got up, right?

• 1:08:20Derrick Levasseur?

  Yes, which would indicate what?

• 1:08:22Stephanie Harlowe?

  Which would indicate that she left the balcony and left the room.

• 1:08:25Derrick Levasseur?

  I would argue that it it's she was out on the balcony after coming back inside and then going back out there. And she went out there for a brief moment and never came back in.

• 1:08:34Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay. So you believe the door was open when Ron woke up?

• 1:08:38Derrick Levasseur?

  I believe the door was open when Ron woke up, which he said. When they woke up, the door was open, and she was gone.

• 1:08:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay.

• 1:08:44Derrick Levasseur?

  So I believe that she was in the room, didn't feel great or whatever, for whatever reason, ran back out onto the balcony, and the door was left open behind her.

• 1:08:51Stephanie Harlowe?

  All right, we're going to take our last break because we're kind of delving into a different path here. And we'll be right back.

• 1:09:02Stephanie Harlowe?

  Okay, so we're back and sightings continue to come in about Amy Bradley. And in 2001, a retired naval officer named Bill Hefner contacted Amy's family and said he'd been in Curacao in January of 1999. While there, he visited the Stolaris Hotel, which had a bar on the first floor and hotel rooms on the upper floor. The hotel and its bar were off limits to sailors because of its reputation for illegal prostitution. Bill went anyway, and while there, he struck up a conversation with two black men who were with two women he assumed were sex workers. Eventually, the men and one of the women left, leaving Bill alone with the other woman. He said they kept talking, and she told him her name was Amy Bradley, though he thought

• 1:09:45Stephanie Harlowe?

  she said Brettly with a T and not a D. She said she'd been on a cruise with her family before ending up on the island. She said, "Me and my brother were partying, and I went ashore to go get drugs, and now I'm stuck here with these guys." She told him she couldn't leave because they had her papers. Bill told her to go to a US ship in the port, and they would help her, but she said that wasn't possible. Before she could say anymore, the second woman returned, and Amy then went quiet, clearly trying not to draw attention to their conversation. Bill left the hotel, not realizing Amy was a missing woman, and returned to his ship. He was concerned about Amy, but he was also unwilling to report what he'd seen. He was only two years away from retirement and didn't want to risk trouble by admitting he'd been at the hotel.

• 1:10:29Stephanie Harlowe?

  You were just told by this woman that she was on a cruise with her family. She left the cruise, and now she's stuck with these guys, and she doesn't want to be, but they took her papers. Like, she's basically telling you, "I've been abducted, and I'm being hold hostage against my will." And you're like, "You know what? I'm not going to report this. I'm two years away from retirement. Like, we'll just let this, we'll let this fly." He could have said he saw her outside the hotel and talked to her then, like, at least something to get some help to this girl who clearly needs help, but he doesn't say anything to anyone? That's weird, right?

• 1:11:02Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, it's a scumbag move not to say anything. I do remember addressing this and saying...

• 1:11:08Derrick Levasseur?

  For him to come out and admit this, everyone's gonna have the same visceral reaction that we're having where it was just really looks bad on his part. And so to me, that gives a little bit more credibility to the story because there's really nothing to gain in this. It just makes him look horrible. First off, he's in there soliciting for prostitution. He has a woman

• 1:11:26Stephanie Harlowe?

  who tells him that she's being held. That's not necessarily what he was doing.

• 1:11:28Derrick Levasseur?

  Allegedly.

• 1:11:29Stephanie Harlowe?

  He just wanted to go to the bar.

• 1:11:31Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, he just wanted to go to the bar, sure. And you know, this woman tells him that she's being held against her will, all these things. And he goes, well, you know what? I don't really care. I'm getting back on the boat. So all in all.

• 1:11:39Stephanie Harlowe?

  You're on your own, kid.

• 1:11:40Derrick Levasseur?

  He just looks really, really bad. So why?

• 1:11:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  I mean, he could have just grabbed her and been like, we're leaving.

• 1:11:45Derrick Levasseur?

  A hundred, a hundred percent, which is why I don't necessarily discount his story. I don't want to get ahead. But there's something that could explain this where he is telling the truth for the most part. And I promise you guys, it's coming. I just don't want to jump ahead in the story. But there is a world here where he's telling the truth and it's still not Amy. But let's say for the sake of this conversation, it was Amy. I'm always going to go back to it's a lot of risk. Amy at this point is plutonium for the traffickers.

• 1:12:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, you think they want to get her out of Curacao at the very least, bring her to another island. Yeah.

• 1:12:21Derrick Levasseur?

  I don't want to be crass or just kill her. And that way the heat's off of them. But are they going to risk leaving her alone with these Johns where they could say, yep, I want to buy her for an hour?

• 1:12:30Stephanie Harlowe?

  Who's a you, what, a Navy, a sailor? So he works for the United States government from which she belongs to the United States? And they're gonna be like, have fun, you two.

• 1:12:39Derrick Levasseur?

  I just don't see it happening. Like if they're trafficking her, they're bringing her somewhere else to a higher, you know, authority that's not going to have her out in public. They're not just gonna have her out there sitting at a bar like an escort when every time she encounters someone, she could.

• 1:12:54Stephanie Harlowe?

  Not when she's an abducted American woman.

• 1:12:55Derrick Levasseur?

  No, she could relate to them, hey, I'm being held against my will. And even though, oh, they have my papers. You don't need your papers to get help. You could go somewhere, get help, and that's not an option. So some of the story, in every case that we have, it just doesn't make sense. If you're being held against your will, you can get away.

• 1:13:10Stephanie Harlowe?

  Are we being led to believe, because they keep saying Amy had her identification? I kept thinking of that as her driver's license. She also disappeared with her passport?

• 1:13:18Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, she got off the boat with her passport, apparently, which is another problem with this story because. Her family has come out and said that she wasn't really into drugs. So let's say for this conversation, she was. Well, she was getting, they were planning on getting off the boat anyways. So why wouldn't you get off the boat with your family, then sneak away for a couple of minutes? Go grab what you need and then be meet up with them. You're going to get off the boat without telling them, cause all this concern, raise all these suspicions just because you need drugs? She's not some addict. So to me, that that story doesn't line up, which is why I do believe that this woman may have said, I'm Amy Bradley, I was taken from a cruise ship, all this bullshit. But then the story as far as like, oh, I got off the boat to get drugs? That's this person making up those stories and filling in the blanks.

• 1:14:02Stephanie Harlowe?

  Do you think the woman?

• 1:14:03Derrick Levasseur?

  Was not Amy Bradley. And I'm going to explain more why. And there's a reason why she would. There's a reason why she would.

• 1:14:11Stephanie Harlowe?

  All right, so two years later, in 2001, Bill saw Amy's photo on People Magazine and immediately believed the woman in the hotel had been her. Now that he was retired, he was more willing to talk. He contacted the FBI, recounted what he knew and passed a polygraph. But when shown a photo of yellow, he said he wasn't sure if he'd been one of the men there. The only thing he was certain of was that he'd seen Amy. The FBI later traveled to Curacao to follow up on Bill's statements, but by then the hotel had burned down, taking any leads with it. So the search continued. And in 2003, witnesses reported seeing a woman in San Francisco who matched Amy's description. On April 18th, the woman was spotted at Pier 33, which is near Fisherman's Wharf.

• 1:14:54Stephanie Harlowe?

  The sighting happened close to the ticket area for Alcatraz, where a street musician was performing. According to the witnesses, the woman was with two men they described as her handlers. At one point, one of them gave her foreign coins to drop into the musician's case. But then the men realized witnesses were looking at the woman, so they grabbed her and ran. As they dragged her away, the woman looked over her shoulder and pleaded silently with the witnesses. She stumbled and fell at one point, but the men kept pulling her along. So the witnesses contacted the FBI and provided detailed descriptions. The FBI believed the sighting was valid enough that they sent a forensic artist from Quantico to create sketches of the two men.

• 1:15:35Stephanie Harlowe?

  When the sketches were done, the witnesses said that they were so good, they were like photographs. The sketches were released, but unfortunately, it doesn't appear that the men were ever identified. So the Bradleys continued to collect tips and pass along leads. Then in 2005, they received their most disturbing lead yet. An email containing explicit photos of a Caribbean sex worker known as Jas. J A S. The images were found by someone working with an organization that searches sexual websites for potential sex trafficking victims. They had been posted on an escort site called Affordable Adult Vacations, which featured multiple women using nicknames and posing suggestively, some without clothing.

• 1:16:16Stephanie Harlowe?

  According to the site, the woman worked for an escort resort on Margarita Island in Venezuela. It was marketed as an all-inclusive resort with 24/7 access to escorts. Vacation packages included the customer's choice of escort or multiple escorts, who would stay with them at all times, even on excursions. Guests could select their escort in advance by browsing the photographs online. Now, when the Bradley saw the photos of Jas, they thought she could be Amy, though she looked very different from when they had last seen her. The woman had long teased hair and heavy makeup. Iva said, quote, "When I first looked at the picture, it wasn't the Amy I know. The picture looks like a harsh and tormented Amy," end quote. The tipster sent several images, some of which have been released publicly.

• 1:17:01Stephanie Harlowe?

  Brad said that, in his opinion, many of the photos bore a striking resemblance to his sister Amy, while others did not. He noted that, in many of the pictures, the woman's body was positioned in a way that hid Amy's known tattoos. In a few where tattoos should have been visible, they weren't, suggesting they may have been covered with makeup or digitally altered and removed. The Bradleys gave the images to the FBI, who conducted a forensic facial analysis. Agents measured features that don't change with age, like a widow's peak, ear shape, or arm proportions, and matched them to known photographs of Amy. Now, in the Netflix documentary, they show the comparison points, and admittedly, these similarities are striking. The FBI ended up concluding that the photos were likely of Amy Bradley.

• 1:17:46Stephanie Harlowe?

  The FBI's next priority was to find out where the photos had been taken. So they examined everything in the background from the bed frame to the mattress pattern and contacted every adult vacation or escort agency they could find in the Caribbean and surrounding regions. They even tried to arrange meetings with Jazz through undercover investigators. Every lead went nowhere. Agencies claimed they had never heard of her, even when shown the images. Brad said it's unclear if they were telling the truth or simply covering for someone. So with nowhere else to turn, the FBI and the Bradleys decided they needed to release the photos publicly in hopes of generating more leads. And so they decided to do this while appearing on the Dr. Phil Show. But that and everything that followed will have to wait until the next episode. But I know Derek wants to talk about these photos.

• 1:18:31Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. So, so first off, that's the thing I was referring to earlier where I believe more than likely, the woman seen at the bar, or the hotel, I should say, was Jazz. I think this woman has a striking resemblance to Amy. I will push back a little bit. I haven't found anything. And if I'm wrong, I'll, I'll be sure to admit it in the comments for the next episode. I haven't seen anything conclusively that says the FBI said, yep, it's definitely Amy in those photos. They acknowledged that, from my understanding, it could be Amy. It could be, not that it wasn't. And I'm going to show you, I just sent the photos to Stephanie and we're going to put them up on the episode as well. And I will caution all of you, just a little bit of a warning, we're going to blur some of these photos out.

• 1:19:14Derrick Levasseur?

  But the first photo you're going to see right here is actually from a tweet from Brad Bradley. It was recent, where he put up the exact photo of Amy's tattoo. You can see, it's not a brown Tasmanian devil, it's dizzy devil. And it's, he's purple and he's spinning a basketball on his finger. So you can see it here. So everyone's been reporting it's a Tasmanian devil. Here it is, right here for you to all look at it. If you're on YouTube, if you're listening on audio, jump over real quick. You can check it out. You can mark the timestamp. There's the actual tattoo. And the next photo that I'm going to show you is the photo of the close up of this woman who they used to make the comparison. And there are a lot of similarities to Amy Bradley. I've seen the comparisons on Reddit. I get it.

• 1:19:56Derrick Levasseur?

  However, if you remember a couple of episodes, I told you that Netflix and everybody else can skew it by not showing you everything. They're not lying, but they're just leaving certain details out. Well, these next couple of photos I'm going to show you, like I said, this is the same woman. I actually found the website that this was posted on, which by the way, I don't think they would have Amy posted on the website, but that's a different story for a different day. That'd be pretty brazen to do that. But here's the other photos from this exact photo shoot of this same exact woman who's reported to be Amy. And in the first photo you're seeing here, there's a photo of her back left shoulder. And what do we not see?

• 1:20:34Stephanie Harlowe?

  A tattoo.

• 1:20:35Derrick Levasseur?

  There's no tattoo. The only argument I could make is that these photos are inverted. And this is actually her right shoulder, not her left. I have no indication that that's the case, but there's no tattoo here. And this is the same woman. You can tell it's the same background, same hairstyle. There's a couple more photos. Her hair is kind of covering that shoulder a little bit in those other photos. And then there's one photo that's more of a frontal, but it's a little further away. But overall, when you look at these other photos, you can see how the narrative can be skewed. But to me, if you take these photos with the way they look, that is 100% not Amy Bradley. Unless she had, like you said, they were digitally altered or she had the tattoos removed, which I don't believe either are true. So I believe that this woman we're seeing is this woman Jass.

• 1:21:19Derrick Levasseur?

  And I think that Jass, which there are some reports on Reddit, take that with a grain of salt, that say Jass was actually on record somewhere, just talking to people saying, yeah, I was doing this to kind of get more money, to raise my price because people were into it like, oh, the American woman that had been held captive, like they all wanted to sleep with me. So she was kind of playing up this character in order to have more people want to purchase her time. And there's a world, and I think it's a real strong possibility that she was telling this story to this gentleman, I shouldn't even call him a gentleman, because she was hoping that would turn him on and he would be more likely to buy her time, to want to spend time alone with her.

• 1:21:56Stephanie Harlowe?

  And you said there's reports of her telling people this?

• 1:21:59Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, that she would use that to, again, it was only on Reddit. I have nothing substantiated.

• 1:22:03Stephanie Harlowe?

  So did she, do you think she like put the fake tattoo on there for some of these pictures?

• 1:22:07Derrick Levasseur?

  I don't. This is the photos right here. I don't think she ever had this photo. I know some people say they saw a tattoo. I don't know. I don't know if they saw it or not, but these are the photos from that same photo shoot that everyone's passing around in the Netflix doc and online. And they're making the comparison to Amy.

• 1:22:23Stephanie Harlowe?

  So you're saying that, yeah, and none of, none of these pictures that are like zoomed out. That show her face actually show a tattoo and there's only this one that looks like a completely different lighting.

• 1:22:34Derrick Levasseur?

  Yes, that's a photo that Brad posted. I think it's something where he like, he got it from a video or something and he posted it for everyone to see. That is not just some random drawing that was made to look similar to her tattoo. That is her tattoo.

• 1:22:45Stephanie Harlowe?

  Where did he get this picture from?

• 1:22:47Derrick Levasseur?

  It looks like to me it's from a video capture, not a, not an actual photo. I think it's probably a video where the camera was spanning. And he happened to get it real quick. It looks like she has earrings in and the necklace on.

• 1:22:56Stephanie Harlowe?

  Where is this alleged video playing?

• 1:22:59Derrick Levasseur?

  I don't know.

• 1:23:00Stephanie Harlowe?

  Cause then wouldn't you say that that would be Amy then?

• 1:23:03Derrick Levasseur?

  That is Amy.

• 1:23:04Stephanie Harlowe?

  That is Amy.

• 1:23:05Derrick Levasseur?

  That is Amy in that vid. My interpretation that the one that Brad posted you're talking about is.

• 1:23:09Stephanie Harlowe?

  Oh, it's a, it's a dizzy devil. He said it's not.

• 1:23:11Derrick Levasseur?

  Yes.

• 1:23:11Stephanie Harlowe?

  A brown Tasmanian devil. It's a dizzy devil. He is.

• 1:23:14Derrick Levasseur?

  Yes.

• 1:23:14Stephanie Harlowe?

  Purple and spinning a basketball on his finger.

• 1:23:18Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah. So that's, that's the tweet. That's what I read earlier. So yes, to make sure it's clear for people, cause I might've misunderstood your question.

• 1:23:24Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:25Derrick Levasseur?

  The first photo that I showed you guys is of Amy Bradley. The second photo we're looking at, we can do them again right here, is the photo that everyone's making the comparison to.

• 1:23:33Stephanie Harlowe?

  This is Jazz. Yeah.

• 1:23:35Derrick Levasseur?

  But then you see the same photo shoot, but just with a different angle. One, Jazz doesn't look as much like Amy anymore. And there's no tattoo on that left shoulder. To me, that rules her out. I think this person does exist. I think she. Happens to look very similar to Amy in certain light with certain makeup, and I think she knew that and she played that up. That's my opinion.

• 1:23:57Stephanie Harlowe?

  I mean, it's not the craziest thing I've ever heard.

• 1:23:59Derrick Levasseur?

  Right.

• 1:24:00Stephanie Harlowe?

  It's more likely than it being Amy and just the tattoo being removed.

• 1:24:04Derrick Levasseur?

  And, and let's just, let's just step back for a second here. There's $200,000 reward out there for this American woman that everybody and their brother's looking for. The traffickers are gonna put her on a website? Come on. Hey, here she is. But yeah, don't come get her.

• 1:24:21Stephanie Harlowe?

  They were also unable to determine the authenticity of the images or trace the IP address of the website.

• 1:24:26Derrick Levasseur?

  Right.

• 1:24:27Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:28Derrick Levasseur?

  So to me, again, because I know some people like to go back to the FBI confirmed in this photo it was her. Hey, listen, I haven't seen that anywhere, but let me ask you this. What's their explanation for the tattoo not being on her shoulder?

• 1:24:39Stephanie Harlowe?

  The FBI said it could likely, it could likely be Amy Bradley. Meaning like the facial features matched, but since they couldn't actually determine the authenticity of the pictures or even trace the IP address of the website where they were allegedly found and they questioned all these people and different agencies and nobody had seen her or heard of her. Yeah, I don't know.

• 1:25:03Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, I say all this to say, be careful what you consume. Because if these other photos didn't exist, and what I found here wasn't like deep detective work, it was right online. But big show like Netflix didn't include these other images. Why?

• 1:25:20Stephanie Harlowe?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:25:21Derrick Levasseur?

  I think we all know why.

• 1:25:22Stephanie Harlowe?

  They, yeah, because they show that she doesn't have the tattoo.

• 1:25:24Derrick Levasseur?

  I mean, yeah. So you have to be careful because if these photos didn't exist, everyone would be telling me in the comments, Derek, you're an idiot. That photo is of her. She's older, but that's definitely her. I guarantee you some of those same people are now going, oh yeah, it's not her. You're right. It's not her. And I don't take pride in saying that. I gotta be careful how I say this. I mean, I wish it was her because that would say she's still alive. But I also am glad it's not her because to think that she was being held against her will and being forced to do these types of things is terrible.

• 1:25:54Stephanie Harlowe?

  They never found Jazz, right?

• 1:25:56Derrick Levasseur?

  That's the other issue here. I looked and I looked and I looked and I can't find this woman anywhere. Like you would think someone would have found her, but I do believe there's a scenario where some of these Amy Bradley sightings are actually Jazz with her handlers because she is a sex worker. And all the stories, all the accounts we're hearing could have some validity to them with the fact, the little caveat that it's not actually Amy, it's just someone who looks like her. And I think in passing, seeing her very quickly.

• 1:26:27Derrick Levasseur?

  You could make that mistake as well. Oh yeah, that's Amy.

• 1:26:29Stephanie Harlowe?

  A lot of people resemble each other, so that's not crazy. And if you're, what you're saying is true, and this person was like, let me capitalize on this, the first thing she would have thought of is, I kinda look like this girl.

• 1:26:39Derrick Levasseur?

  Yep. I saw it on Reddit. You can go look yourself. It's all over there. Some people were saying that Jas had said to some people, there were some reports, although I haven't any official documents, where she was out there basically playing this up. We see it all the time, by the way. Young girls, or you know, kidnapped women and children where they pretend to be them, because there's sickos out there that will pay more because of it.

• 1:26:58Stephanie Harlowe?

  And you know what the most prolific case of this is, is Anastasia Romanoff. How many women over history have come out claiming to be her because they never found Anastasia's body, right? So, but now they recently did. I mean, not recently, but a few years ago. So that obviously put a stop to all those focuses. But for, for many, many years, women randomly were coming forward like, that's me, I'm Anastasia. That's me, I'm Anastasia Romanoff. And they made a whole like movie, a cartoon movie about people pretending to be her. It was so widespread. So, yeah, I, I unfortunately, but I just don't know why, if she was doing it to like up her business, why she would now be so hard to find, I guess.

• 1:27:38Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, she could, she could have some problems, I guess, right?

• 1:27:41Stephanie Harlowe?

  Or maybe she was like, oh shit, I didn't expect like the FBI to get involved. Let me um, sort of go under the radar now. Yeah.

• 1:27:49Derrick Levasseur?

  And one other thing I want to point out, because I really want to make sure we cover these photos extensively, because I think they're really important, because a lot of people out there truly believe that these photos are of Amy Bradley. This whole website's dedicated to it. And the one other thing that I want to point out here, as you go through these photos, is let's say you are in the camp that believes this photo is inverted, and this is actually her right side of her body, okay? I'm gonna pull up a photo here first that shows the tattoos that she had. We talked about the dizzy devil. She also had a tattoo above her right ankle, right? So you can see this photo here, this is just a drawing of it, but I don't even know, it's like a little cross with a line.

• 1:28:30Derrick Levasseur?

  So, we have a tattoo on her left shoulder, and then we have a tattoo on her right ankle, okay? So go back to those photos. Let's say you're in the camp, you're like, Derek, nope, they're inverted. That's her right shoulder. Well, you know what that means? That's also her right ankle. And what do you not see there?

• 1:28:46Stephanie Harlowe?

  No tattoos.

• 1:28:47Derrick Levasseur?

  So there you go.

• 1:28:47Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:48Derrick Levasseur?

  I'm gonna go out on a limb and it's a rare thing. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say I'm 100% sure that these photos are not of Amy Bradley. And that's why I wanted to wait till we got to that point in the story, but there's no doubting the fact that this woman looks very similar to Amy. Not disputing that, which gives more credence to the witness testimony that we have had.

• 1:29:07Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, definitely does.

• 1:29:08Derrick Levasseur?

  A woman that looked like Amy Bradley, but it wasn't Amy.

• 1:29:12Stephanie Harlowe?

  No, I think you're, I think you're right, unfortunately.

• 1:29:15Derrick Levasseur?

  So that's where I'm at on it. And I mean, that it's, this is not the only thing that I'm basing my opinion off of. Occam's razor is a lot of this as well, where there's things about what the last known whereabouts, everything that Brad and Ron have conveyed to us can all be true, and it's very possible that she just fell overboard. Couple that with the, the discrediting of these sightings, that's really the only conclusion you're left with. We know Yellow wasn't off the boat. He was in his room at 6:00 AM. The director went down there. He wasn't with her, taking her somewhere.

• 1:29:44Stephanie Harlowe?

  No.

• 1:29:45Derrick Levasseur?

  He was sleeping in his room, so it had to be a counterpart. It had to be someone else. And yet we have the taxi driver saying she was alone at the port saying, hey, I need to know where a payphone is. So she wasn't being held in a, a bin or a cage or a car or a van. She was walking around.

• 1:30:01Stephanie Harlowe?

  And then with these other people saying that allegedly she's seen with Yellow afterwards in Kirasau, where it's like, what, would he go back to the island? Does he live on the island? Wasn't he working on the cruise ship? Why would he be on the island? So yeah, there's a lot of issues. Yeah.

• 1:30:14Derrick Levasseur?

  We haven't talked about this, but I, I think you feel comfortable with it. You know, we're not going to reach out to Brad. Uh, if he, he's gonna probably hear about this and, and see this series. It's getting a lot of attention. If he does, I want to offer the invite to come on here and let's talk about it. We want what you want. Uh, we're not pointing the fingers at anyone. Uh, if he wants to come on here and, and talk about Amy's case and maybe push back on some of the things that I said. He knows this case better than me and we're not going to run from that. We want, we want to get to the truth. We want to find Amy or at least figure out what happened to her. Uh, and there is a world we won't if she did go overboard.

• 1:30:51Derrick Levasseur?

  The invite is out there. I know that people who are close to this case who know Brad, he's very available online. He's out there. He's talking on Twitter. He's on all these different podcasts. We're open to it. If he wants to do an episode where we'll sit down and talk about it, we can do that. It's not something we normally do. We did it with Darlie because we were really hard on her. We wanted to give someone an opportunity to discredit what we were saying. This is a little different. The word's out there, the Netflix is out there, our series is out there. If Brad wants to come on and talk about it, we're all for it. I think you're okay with that, right?

• 1:31:23Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, of course, of course.

• 1:31:25Derrick Levasseur?

  So that's where we're at. That's where I'm at. I know we're gonna have one more part of this to go. I just want the truth. I'm not trying to, you know, poo poo on anybody's theories, but you gotta call it how you see it, and this is how I see it. And I wanted you to come in and look at it, but I won't even ask you as we end this episode how you're feeling. I want to wait till the whole thing's out there, let you finish your research, and then let you come to your own conclusion because to me, it's pointing in one direction and it's not the one that most, I guess some people believe in, but I got nothing else.

• 1:31:54Stephanie Harlowe?

  All right, so let's wrap it up and we'll be back next week and then we'll give our final thoughts after we put down all the evidence and all the facts that we know, at least.

• 1:32:02Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:03Stephanie Harlowe?

  And, uh, yeah.

• 1:32:04Derrick Levasseur?

  We'll go from there.

• 1:32:05Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, we'll go from there. Let us know what you think about this episode, because we had a lot of weird, we had a lot of unexpected discussions here.

• 1:32:11Derrick Levasseur?

  I'm curious. In the comments, let us know how many of you had seen the photo that I put up of Amy, you know, the facial photo, and thought it was her. How many of you didn't know about the other photos and have now changed your mind?

• 1:32:24Stephanie Harlowe?

  Derek wants to know how many of you did he change your minds?

• 1:32:28Derrick Levasseur?

  Basically. Yeah. And, and but it's not even about changing minds. It's about proving a point that these documentaries and these series may have an intention of just presenting another theory, but if there's information that disputes or discredits that theory, they'll conveniently leave it out to enhance the story that they are telling. It's not technically lying. It's not being completely transparent. And that's the way they get around it. That's the ethical conundrum that they're just like, oh, we didn't have enough time to show all the other photos, even though those other photos would discredit the initial photo you showed. So that's my problem. And that's why we're here, because even a lot of people have said, I watched a Netflix series, but this-

• 1:33:10Derrick Levasseur?

  This is a lot better. This is, this is better than that because it's showing all sides. We're not trying to do that and I think Netflix does a lot of good things as well.

• 1:33:18Stephanie Harlowe?

  Their documentaries are always skewed. I'm sorry.

• 1:33:20Derrick Levasseur?

  They're skewed.

• 1:33:21Stephanie Harlowe?

  Every, it's not just Netflix. Every documentary.

• 1:33:23Derrick Levasseur?

  What did I say? And I was in part two or part one? If it was a simple series where they wanted to make a, a documentary saying Amy fell overboard accidentally. No one would buy it. Nobody would watch it. This is a much more salacious story.

• 1:33:37Stephanie Harlowe?

  I mean, they would watch it. They would watch it if Netflix ended with that. Like, oh, despite everything we've shown you.

• 1:33:44Derrick Levasseur?

  They'll, they'll hook you in.

• 1:33:45Stephanie Harlowe?

  But they don't want to do that. They, they still don't want to do that.

• 1:33:48Derrick Levasseur?

  Right. And there's a lot of good people out there who want to find her and are going down this human trafficking trail. And maybe I'm wrong. And you know what? Keep pursuing what you're pursuing. I would love for someone to find her and be like, this is where she was. Derek, you're an idiot. I would have no issue with that, but let us know what you think. Way in down in the comments below. Like, comment, subscribe. If you're on audio, please leave a review, leave your comments. We've been getting a lot more. I think next week we'll announce the Crime Con kind of giveaway because it's getting to that point now.

• 1:34:18Stephanie Harlowe?

  I know.

• 1:34:18Derrick Levasseur?

  So actually, let's just do it right now. If you want to leave your comments, we'll start to pick someone because it is getting close. We're looking at August 11th right now as we're recording this. So with this week, it'll give you some time to plan if you're in that area or you have to book flights. Two Crime Con tickets for free on Stephanie and I. Way in down in the comments section. Make sure you're leaving a review on audio, Spotify or Apple Podcasts. You can leave a, a comment on Spotify. It's not necessarily a review. Tell us your story. There's also people who've gotten creative and have started making, I don't know if you've seen them like Instagram stories. Where they're posting their review, but then also promoting our, our show.

• 1:34:58Stephanie Harlowe?

  Oh, that's awesome.

• 1:34:58Derrick Levasseur?

  Pretty good. It's pretty good. I'm not going to lie. So get creative. We're going to pick one person for two tickets. We look forward to seeing you guys. It's going to be great. Until then, we'll see you next week. Everyone be safe out there. Have a good night.

• 1:35:10Stephanie Harlowe?

  Bye.