S3 Ep145: Step-Brother Charged in Anna Kepner Case

Anna Kepner was an 18-year-old from Florida found dead aboard a Carnival cruise ship in November 2025. Her death was ruled a homicide, and her 16-year-old stepbrother has now been charged in connection with her death. Authorities have not publicly released full details of the charges or evidence, and the case remains under seal as legal proceedings continue. Try our coffee!! - www. CriminalCoffeeCo.comBecome a Patreon member -- > ｿ https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeeklyShop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> ｿ https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shopYoutube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcastWebsite: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.comInstagram: @CrimeWeeklyPodTwitter: @CrimeWeeklyPodFacebook: @CrimeWeeklyPod

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:14Derrick Levasseur?

  Hey everyone, welcome back to Crime Weekly News. I'm Derrick Levasseur.

• 0:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  And I'm Stephanie Harlow.

• 0:19Derrick Levasseur?

  And as we do on Crime Weekly News, we'll cover a story in the headlines and then if there's an update in that story, we like to give you an update because now we're tracking it as much as you guys are and we do have an update in the Anna Kepner case. If you 're not familiar with it, Anna was 18 years old. She died on the Carnival Horizon cruise ship on November 7th while she was on vacation with her family. She was found asphyxiated. There were some details about it that we learned regarding the family and we now have some updates and I don't think they're going to be a surprise for many of you.

• 0:52Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, so it's once again because the person, her stepbrother, Anna's stepbrother, was, we all kind of thought, because he was sharing a room with her and because there had been past incidences between the two of them, that he was the one who may have been responsible or involved in some way, but nothing's really come out. This young man is a minor, 16 years old, so even his name hasn't been released. But we do have some updates where it appears that this 16-year-old boy is being charged with Anna's murder. And according to newly filed court documents, Chantel Hudson's ex-husband, Thomas Hudson,

• 1:33Stephanie Harlowe?

  he has said that the family of Anna Kepner has been making some posts on social media that he has a problem with. Now, if you remember again, Chantel Hudson was the new wife of Anna Kepner's father. And so the young man, the 16-year-old, who is believed to now be involved with Anna's death, that would be her son. So I guess that according to Thomas Hudson... He says social media from the Kepner family has indicated that they want the nails in the coffin of the suspect, the 16-year-old boy, and that both the Kepner family and the respondent, so in this case, the respondent would be Chantel, want this 16-year-old boy

• 2:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  to be quote-unquote buried. Thomas Hudson has also alleged that the kids may have been allowed to drink while on the cruise. He alleged a lack of supervision of the children, as well as inappropriate living arrangements between the kids on the cruise. Derek and I talked about this.

• 2:32Derrick Levasseur?

  Yep, yes, we did.

• 2:33Stephanie Harlowe?

  The Kepner family has denied these accusations. They said the kids were not allowed to drink, they were supervised. Now, as far as the inappropriate living arrangements, the Kepner family has also denied that, but Derek and I both kind of said that we agree that that probably wasn't the best way to situate these cabins.

• 2:51Derrick Levasseur?

  No doubt.

• 2:52Stephanie Harlowe?

  And to have Anna in the room with, I believe it was a half-brother and also a stepbrother, not so much the half-brother, but yeah.

• 2:59Derrick Levasseur?

  Two boys.

• 3:00Stephanie Harlowe?

  The non-blood-related stepbrother, who she hadn't even known for that long.

• 3:03Derrick Levasseur?

  Yep, yep.

• 3:04Stephanie Harlowe?

  Now, in the latest documents, we also see that Thomas Hudson is seeking sole custody of his nine-year-old daughter, so Chantel Hudson's other daughter. And although the case has been sealed, a few weeks ago, we saw Anna Kepner's stepbrother and family members walking into a federal courthouse in southern Florida. Details on why they were in court haven't been publicly revealed because he's a 16-year-old boy.

• 3:30Derrick Levasseur?

  Right.

• 3:31Stephanie Harlowe?

  But it does seem...

• 3:32Derrick Levasseur?

  They're not charging him as an adult. That's important to mention here. That's why they can't reveal it, because if he was being charged as an adult, even though he's a juvenile, they would be able to release his name.

• 3:39Stephanie Harlowe?

  It appears that there could be two charges being investigated at this point, one that has been redacted in the court documents, and the other listed as homicide slash murder. So it does appear, and who knows what the other charge could be, right? Once again, they're being very, very careful with this because of the ages of the people involved.

• 3:58Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, I was wondering how this was going to be charged, whether it was going to be on the burden of the state or the, or federal prosecutors were going to take it over, and now we have our answers.

• 4:07Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, but I wonder what that other charge is, that they're not... Revealing, do you think it's a sexual assault thing possibly?

• 4:14Derrick Levasseur?

  It could be, it could be, but it also could be something as simple as there were measures taken to try and hide her body. It could be just something as minor as putting her under the bed and putting some pillows or blankets in front of it, just trying to alter the crime scene to avoid apprehension, to avoid detection. Maybe there was some tampering done to make it seem like someone else could have entered the room. There's a lot of specifics we don't have, but to kind of address what you just talked about as far as the parental supervision at the time on the cruise, yes, it's something important that we have to learn about and talk about as a preventative measure for everybody else who's listening and watching this case and following along, we can all learn from it. But at the end of the day, if those decisions were made, yes, we can, we can condemn them if they,

• 4:58Derrick Levasseur?

  if they weren't appropriate. But, but if this person, if this 16 year old boy killed Anna, that doesn't change for me. Right? I mean, they're in the cabin together and we could argue that that wasn't the best choice. But for him to go to this extreme, whether it was accidental or intentional, that's on him. He is a child, I get it, but he's 16 years old and he clearly knows right from wrong.

• 5:24Stephanie Harlowe?

  He's legally a child, but mentally, would you consider a 16 year old?

• 5:28Derrick Levasseur?

  Competent enough to know that strangling someone could lead to death? I think, I think most people would know that by that point.

• 5:35Stephanie Harlowe?

  One of those things where did you know that that was wrong to do kind of questions?

• 5:38Derrick Levasseur?

  Right. Right. And there may be something else there. There may be some underlying issues that we learn about and there may be a defense measure there. We don't know. But from what we have been told, it sounds honestly, pretty clear cut. There was another witness there who said that when he was there, they were both in the room, he left, nobody else entered.

• 6:00Stephanie Harlowe?

  That was alleged. That was, that was Anna Kepner's ex-boyfriend who said that the 14 year old. Brother had told him that, but

• 6:07Derrick Levasseur?

  That is fair.

• 6:08Stephanie Harlowe?

  He really has no reason to lie about that. So it's very possible that it's true.

• 6:13Derrick Levasseur?

  Let's just say for the sake of this conversation, it's true, right? On top of that, we've talked about Amy Bradley before. Cruise ships are a lot better now. There's probably more cameras in those hallways. And so they were, they were probably able to determine whether or not someone could have entered or exited that room. And through reasonable deduction, you can come to a conclusion as to who could be responsible for Anna's death. And I think that's where we're at right now. So I'm actually intrigued just from an outsider to see what the defense is here. You know, Thomas is talking about it. What is going to be the argument here? What could have transpired inside that room where your son is not responsible for this death? That's going to be a tough one.

• 6:57Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, it looks like the father is very supportive of the son, that he has helped him gain, you know, some sort of legal counsel and is going to stand by his side. And I don't know if the argument from the father's side of this is going to be, he didn't do it so much as it's possible that he was put in a position by the adults

• 7:16Derrick Levasseur?

  Delusional.

• 7:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  in the room. Well, I mean legally, I think

• 7:19Derrick Levasseur?

  I get you.

• 7:19Stephanie Harlowe?

  He's probably being told legally, he can make that argument. So he's going to try to, yeah.

• 7:23Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, me and you, I was talking as friends and we're talking with you guys. I get it. You're going to go with, oh, you know, he was put in a bad situation. Not buying it, bud. Sorry. I, I respect the fact that you're going to defend your child. But at some point, you gotta just, you support them in a way where they did something wrong and now they're going to have to pay for their actions. But to come out and say, oh, well, my son was given an alcoholic drink and they were left in a room alone. And so he lost his temper and did something. Tell that to Anna's family. Tell that to Anna's father and mother.

• 7:56Stephanie Harlowe?

  I agree. I think as if it's your 16 year old son and you're like, hey, I just want to make sure you're properly legally represented and you have the best chance that you can in a court situation. That's one thing to support, but to

• 8:09Derrick Levasseur?

  No doubt.

• 8:10Stephanie Harlowe?

  to try and kind of shift the blame and enable. In this way, it's not good for for anybody if that's what's happening.

• 8:17Derrick Levasseur?

  I am trying to read between the lines here and we really want you guys to weigh in down in the comment section. What do you think? Because you can tell a lot by what people say and what they don't say. And when they start making claims like, oh, I heard there might have been alcohol being given to the children. To me, I take that as a possible defense of, okay, these children were being fed alcohol. They were then sent to a room by themselves. And something went down in that room because my son was inebriated because of what they gave him. And so he wasn't in a clear, you know, mental state and and made made a wrong decision. It was an accident. I don't know how you're going to justify that. But that, I mean, that's

• 8:58Derrick Levasseur?

  not like going out on a limb here as a detective. I mean, that sounds like the direction he's going. My son was put in a position where there were circumstances that caused him to act out in a way that he otherwise wouldn't. I don't think that clears him of murder. But I think that's the argument here. I don't know how he's going to beat it on that. What are you going to charge the parents with the murder? The ones who gave him the alcohol? Good luck with that.

• 9:22Stephanie Harlowe?

  The kid's a minor, so I think you're going to try to do everything you can to minimize his direct involvement. And once again, I understand as a parent, you're like, well, I don't want his whole life to be ruined. He's only 16. But at the same time, as Derek and I said, a 16 year old does have the capacity to understand the difference between right and wrong. And are there going to be mental health issues brought up? I'm sure as of now, from what I heard, this kid was on ADHD medication, maybe had some emotional issues in the past, but nothing standing out that I can see that would completely take away his responsibility for being responsible for somebody's death.

• 10:00Derrick Levasseur?

  You know, and I'm trying to, I always try to see both sides. And then I play out a scenario of you have parents who have parties for their children and they they serve alcohol to minors. And then that minor leaves and gets in a car accident. Those parents can be charged. But that's a different circumstance. Those, those kids didn't go and commit a murder. So just to play out a different scenario, if the, if you have people show up to your house and they're 17 years old, right? And they have a couple of drinks while, you know, at your house and then they go out to a, you know, a club or a bar and they get in a fight and kill someone. Are the parents going to be responsible because they were inebriated at the time of the fight? I don't think so. I think it's different circumstances.

• 10:44Stephanie Harlowe?

  I, I, the whole, if it's at their home, they would be responsible in some way. Like I know.

• 10:48Derrick Levasseur?

  I'm saying if, if, if that child left the home and goes out to an establishment.

• 10:52Stephanie Harlowe?

  I think there is some, yeah, I think there is some responsibility.

• 10:56Derrick Levasseur?

  But does it alleviate or exonerate the person who did it?

• 10:59Stephanie Harlowe?

  I think it's based on the property. Like if you served alcohol to minors in your home and then they go out and get in a car accident or something like that, then yes, there is some responsibility to the adults who served the minors.

• 11:12Derrick Levasseur?

  I agree.

• 11:12Stephanie Harlowe?

  But this is a cruise ship.

• 11:14Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, that's what I'm saying.

• 11:15Stephanie Harlowe?

  Unless they are handing them alcohol and, and there's videos of them knowingly feeding these kids alcohol. Just the, you know, oh, hey, I think that they were letting them drink kind of thing isn't, isn't going to be enough. In my opinion, to, to, to completely implicate Anna's father and his wife in, in, in what happened here. Now, once again, Derek and I both said, we agreed that the decision to put them all three in the same room was not wise.

• 11:43Derrick Levasseur?

  Even if they're not drinking.

• 11:44Stephanie Harlowe?

  Even if they're not, yeah, of course. Just in general, we wouldn't think that it was a a smart decision to make, especially because there's nobody there. You know, you'd have to go to a different cabin to get an adult. It's not like there's an adult in the next room kind of thing. You're in a locked room. So if something happens, then the parents can't get right in. The parents have to go and get somebody from the cruise ship and it's just too, there's too much distance there. And also allegedly according to Anna's ex-boyfriend, she had expressed her discomfort with this 16-year-old boy before to her parents and they ignored her. If those things are proven and that's the case, I think there is some responsibility to be taken here.

• 12:21Derrick Levasseur?

  I agree.

• 12:21Stephanie Harlowe?

  But I don't think in the way that, that the 16-year-old's father is trying to kind of completely wipe the slate clean for his son.

• 12:28Derrick Levasseur?

  And to take the analogy that we just said, and I, and I gave the bar example, but let me give another example. You as a parent serve a minor alcohol at your house. That minor goes out and hits and kills another person that's driving a different vehicle.

• 12:45Derrick Levasseur?

  There is some culpability and potential criminal charges coming the way of the parent. However, the minor who's driving intoxicated is also going to be charged. They don't get cleared of any wrongdoing because of how they ended up in that situation. So my point being, if there was alcohol given to the 16-year-old boy, and he went into that room and at minimum killed Anna, there's no world in which a judge says, "You know what? You were given alcohol, so you're clear. You were on goo. You know, you're all set. You're protected. You don't have to be held responsible for what you did because you were inebriated." He made a choice to drink as well, and then he carried out another action.

• 13:30Derrick Levasseur?

  So there could be something that comes the way of the parents, but it's not going to exonerate the 16-year-old boy. If he murdered Anna, he's going to be charged with murder.

• 13:39Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, yeah, I agree. They would... Did you say you saw somewhere that they were charging him not as a minor? That they would be charging him as an adult?

• 13:45Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, so my understanding with the federal charges, if your charge is an adult, they can release your name. So the fact that they're not releasing his name indicates to me that he's still being charged as a minor, which is fine. I don't know the circumstances of this case yet. I don't know. We will never know. Only Anna and this boy will know what happened in that room. Now, the forensics of it, the pathology report, all of that is going to give us some indication whether this was an accidental death or it was intentional. I believe it's already been ruled that it was intentional.

• 14:14Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yes, it's been ruled that it was intentional.

• 14:16Derrick Levasseur?

  So there was some form of asphyxiation, whether it was by a pillow or by manual strangulation with the hands. That's not an accident. That was a deliberate act, and the person who carried out that act needs to go to prison, 16 or not.

• 14:30Stephanie Harlowe?

  It's very strange because I remember when we first talked about this case and the interviews that were coming out from the family, specifically the grandparents, were very kind of vague and like, "Oh, you know, she had a good 18 years." You know, we're so happy for what time we had for her and it sounded like it was an accident what had happened and they weren't coming right out and saying that they were angry or upset. They didn't seem angry or upset and they in fact continued to say, no, you know, Anna and this boy were so close, like they were just like a real brother and sister and it almost seemed like there was some defense happening there. Now, we do know that Anna's 16-year-old stepbrother appeared in a federal court in Miami. This happened on February 6th.

• 15:15Stephanie Harlowe?

  And then after Anna's father and his wife, so Chris Kepner and Chantel, his wife, they released a statement confirming that the stepbrother had been granted release and they were angry about this. And they said, quote, "At this time, it is deeply painful and disturbing to our family that the person responsible is able to walk freely. This reality adds to our grief and outrage. It is devastating to know that while we live every day with the loss of our child, the individual responsible has not yet been fully held accountable," end quote. Now, I find this to be a little weird because, once again, this statement following what happened with the 16-year-old going to court and then being, you know, granted a release and Chris and Chantel standing there and saying this, now

• 16:00Stephanie Harlowe?

  it sounds like Chantel's not talking about her own child. She's not talking about her own son because Chantel is not Anna's mother. Chantel hasn't even really known Anna all that long and we're talking about her son, her 16-year-old son, who stands to have a murder conviction on his record and, of course, his whole life to, you know, be completely different and changed, whatever happens. And now the statement that they released in a joint way is, "It's devastating to know that while we live every day with the loss of our child, the individual responsible has not yet been fully held accountable." So I wonder what this is, is this fueling the 16-year-old's father to be more supportive

• 16:44Stephanie Harlowe?

  of the son now that it seems Chantel has completely almost like, I guess, disowned him, like this individual responsible for the death of my child, almost as if she is, you know, not taking ownership for him anymore because of what he's done? I'm not sure, but the whole...

• 17:03Stephanie Harlowe?

  It's a weird dynamic and I wouldn't, I wouldn't know how to act in either of these situations. With the grandparents coming out afterwards and kind of seeming to be defending the stepbrother and, and not really acknowledging the impact of what had happened to Anna and how that it didn't need to happen, it wasn't necessary, it was avoidable. And then Chantel and Chris coming out and being mad that the 16 year old's getting released and then it's a very weird dynamic and this is why the blended family is hard because when you are Chantel, whose side do you take? Who, what, what part do you play in this? I almost would have, I guess, as Chantel probably told Christopher Kepner, my husband,

• 17:46Stephanie Harlowe?

  I, I'm fine with you making that statement, but I, I don't want to make a statement on either side right now because

• 17:52Derrick Levasseur?

  Right.

• 17:53Stephanie Harlowe?

  I'm in a really bad position here. Like this is my son I raised for 16 years, I gave birth to him, I love him, but I also don't agree with what he did, so I don't want to come out on, on either side right now. I think I should just probably stay quiet. I mean, what are you doing in this situation?

• 18:07Derrick Levasseur?

  Honestly, I don't even know. As, as a parent, as a parent, I'm, I'm, and maybe this is just kind of me being like heartless, but I don't really care about the parents right now. I want justice for, for Anna. I don't give a shit about the dilemmas that the parents are having to deal with. For me, I want to know what happened in that room and I know a lot of people have speculated based on the fact that it was a boy and a girl in that room, that it might've been sexual in nature. I do wonder if there's going to be an argument that this could have been a, a dispute that got physical. And I, and I do pose the question, if it were two boys in the room and there was a boy that was asphyxiated that, that was found under the bed, what would the conversation be there? Cause I can tell you as, you know, someone who has a, a brother who's close in age, we had some pretty, uh, pretty, uh,

• 18:50Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, you probably had some fights.

• 18:51Derrick Levasseur?

  Violent, pretty violent fights where there was fists being thrown and, and you know, somebody could have been hurt really bad and by unintentionally. So I'm looking forward to finding out hopefully more about this, although we mean never.

• 19:03Stephanie Harlowe?

  It seems that they're keeping it very, very undercover, so I don't think we're going to get the answers that we need.

• 19:11Derrick Levasseur?

  And, and the reason I bring up this, this scenario is because of the fact that they released him and I know that the family's upset about it, but There's two things you're looking at there. Is this person a danger to society? And are they a flight risk? And clearly, the court has deemed that this 16-year-old boy is neither. And I do wonder if that's because of the allegations against him. If federal prosecutors are trying to say, listen, he wanted to have sex with Anna, she turned him down. So then he sexually assaulted her and murdered her. That's a different story. Now, if they're making a case that they were fighting over something, the TV remote, the window being open, whatever it was, and they started, you know, getting into a physical altercation and something bad happened to her during that fight.

• 19:57Derrick Levasseur?

  That's a different ballgame, and that could be what the judge is looking at here. So you're right. We may never know about it, and depending on those circumstances will alter my opinion as how long I think this kid should be behind bars. But there is a lot of speculation and conjecture right now, and I know it's simple to go to boy and girl in the room, clearly sexual in nature. We don't know that, as you had started the episode by saying it's all speculative.

• 20:21Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, I don't think that's why we thought that. It's because of the things that have come out.

• 20:25Derrick Levasseur?

  It's a part of it. It's a part of it, for sure.

• 20:27Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, yeah, but also it's because of the things that have come out that the ex-boyfriend said, you know, he was creepy, he was on FaceTime with Anna one night, and the kid came in, like, put himself on her in the bed, and she had to tell him to stop, so things like that.

• 20:37Derrick Levasseur?

  You know as well as I do, just like the boy saying was there. It's all subjective. You know, it's all just one witness's account.

• 20:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  It's all, yeah, it's all just, it could be completely made up. You don't really understand the reason why somebody would do that. And even the ex-boyfriend's father said similar things. So we have an adult in the room now who comes in and says, yes, both, you know, my son and Anna told me that she was uncomfortable with this kid and that she had tried to tell the parents. So now we have an adult coming in, so it makes it a little bit more solid.

• 21:05Derrick Levasseur?

  There's some videos of him as well, like you see the back of him, he's in a hoodie where he's going into court. He's a tall kid, he's not tiny.

• 21:11Stephanie Harlowe?

  No, he's not a, yeah, no.

• 21:13Derrick Levasseur?

  He's probably gotta be five, five ten. I don't know. He's, he's tall. I don't know compared to the person he was standing next to, but he wasn't a small kid.

• 21:20Stephanie Harlowe?

  Do you think, because I feel like if the, the murder, the, the death of Anna had been intentional and covered up the way that it seems to have been.

• 21:28Derrick Levasseur?

  Yes.

• 21:28Stephanie Harlowe?

  Would, would it be, why would they be charging him as a minor? I guess is my question. Do you think it has something to do with it being on a cruise ship and being in like international waters and their jurisdiction? Or what is, what would be the reasons?

• 21:41Derrick Levasseur?

  There might be some mandates for it in the federal system that dictate whether or not they're charged as an adult. It may also be the circumstances surrounding the incident. Again, we're speculating on the motive behind the killing. It could be as simple as they were arguing in the room over a curling iron. I don't know. I'm just making stuff up. My point being, they know more than we do. At the end of the day, where I stand on it, whether it was a altercation over uh the TV show that they were gonna watch. Or something more severe, I think this person needs to be in a facility for an extended period of time. How long will be dictated by the elements of the crime and what they're able to prove?

• 22:22Derrick Levasseur?

  I don't see a world where I would be open to having this young man, if you wanna call him that, depending on again what he did. Uh be let out without any, without serving any time. I don't think that's a justice to Anna. And I, and if, if his father is fighting for that, I can respect the fact that he's defending his son. But I can also acknowledge that he's blinded by his love for his son. And if, and if it was Anna who was his child, he'd, he'd feel very differently.

• 22:48Stephanie Harlowe?

  So do you think that the fact that um this sixteen year old was let out, which upset um Anna's father? Do you think that has everything to do with his age?

• 22:58Derrick Levasseur?

  I don't think it has to do with his age. It's what I just said. I think there's circumstances that we're unaware of. Where the, maybe even the case on behalf of the prosecutors is that this was a fight that got bad, that got violent. And so the judge is saying, okay, he's in parental custody. He's not a danger to society. This was, he was under the, you know, influence of alcohol. He had fought with his sister before. This got out of hand. I don't think he's gonna be out there hurting other people and he's not a flight risk. He, you know, they, he probably doesn't, I don't know if he has a passport or not. Maybe they took that. He's living with his parents. They're taking responsibility for him. We have, you know, people watching him. He's not going anywhere. He's not guilty of a crime yet.

• 23:36Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, I mean, if he's charged and it stays in juvenile court, there's really, I have to be honest, probably not going to be any jail time done because we know that the focus of juvenile court is rehabilitation.

• 23:47Derrick Levasseur?

  Rehabilitation?

• 23:48Stephanie Harlowe?

  Rehabilitation, yeah.

• 23:49Derrick Levasseur?

  I want to hear your guys' thoughts. We'll wrap it up there, but give your opinions down in the comment section below. If you're on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, you can leave a review. We can actually comment on your reviews and your statements on Spotify. We've done that very frequently in the last couple of months now that we've learned how to use it. But I would say for me, regardless of whether it was a fight gone wrong or an intentional act, based on what we do know, it looks like the killing itself was intentional to the point where there was an opportunity to let go and they didn't. So for that reason, this person needs to be behind bars for an extended period of time while they're being reformed. There has to be some consequences for your actions.

• 24:33Derrick Levasseur?

  However, I'm just one person. What do you guys think? And Stephanie, what do you think?

• 24:38Stephanie Harlowe?

  I'm trying to understand. So I know it's Florida, right? So I know in Florida that a 16-year-old can commit a homicide or a murder. And Florida looks at the age of 16 as being old enough to develop intent and to understand the difference between right and wrong. So usually if a murder is ruled as, hey, this is intentional. This was something that the person who did it knew that if they kept holding on, that this person would die. I don't understand why he's being charged as a minor.

• 25:11Derrick Levasseur?

  That's fair.

• 25:11Stephanie Harlowe?

  That's, I can't get past that, I guess.

• 25:14Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, let me hold your feet to the fire, getting past that for a second, even though that's a valid argument. If you were to learn through evidence that this was a fight between two teenagers that got out of hand and he lost his temper, maybe because he was under the influence of alcohol.

• 25:32Derrick Levasseur?

  If you're the judge in this case, are you saying, well, because of the circumstances, we're going to have you seek medical attention, we're going to have you treated outpatient, you're not going to serve any time, or regardless of the circumstances, do you think because it's a homicide, this person needs to spend at least some time behind bars for what they did?

• 25:52Stephanie Harlowe?

  If I'm a judge in this case, and I, you know, you're talking about a fight, a fight, what are, what are we saying, like that Anna was, in this theoretical situation, that Anna was being physically involved, like in a fight with this 16-year-old kid?

• 26:08Derrick Levasseur?

  Potentially. I'm just playing hypotheticals here, because that sounds like what the dad's saying.

• 26:12Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, but even so, if it was two adult people, we still wouldn't, yeah, if it was two adult people fighting, and the woman was defending herself, or even, you know, she slapped the guy, we still wouldn't look at, you know, the guy who grabbed her neck and choked her to death as like possibly not responsible, or not as responsible, because she was fighting him, right?

• 26:33Derrick Levasseur?

  I agree, that's the point I'm making. If you believe that, and it goes back to what you were saying, actually, as far as 16-year-old, does he know right from wrong? And if he does, should be charged as an adult.

• 26:43Stephanie Harlowe?

  So there could be issues here, I guess, because we do know he went and he did get some evaluation done at a mental health facility, so maybe based on what that evaluation said, this is why this is happening, I'm not sure. It could also be that the attorney, the state attorney, hasn't filed a direct prosecution yet. I know that, that they, they can sometimes, especially with a sensitive case like this, maybe they haven't direct, well, I think it's called direct prosecution or direct file, but maybe the direct file hasn't happened yet, and so it's, it's-

• 27:21Derrick Levasseur?

  I don't see him charged with state side.

• 27:23Stephanie Harlowe?

  You don't?

• 27:23Derrick Levasseur?

  I don't see it, nah.

• 27:24Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, I mean, it's hard to, because it happened on a cruise ship.

• 27:27Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, there's a collaborative effort between federal prosecutors and state prosecutors, and the US attorney and the state attorney will, they collaborate, they'll talk about what they want to do, and what's the best approach, and where they're going to have the best chance of success as far as a successful prosecution. So I think you'll see this stay in federal court, there may be some assistance from the state attorney, AG, but I think it'll be in the hands of the US attorney, but, I mean, we'll have to wait and see how it plays out.

• 27:50Stephanie Harlowe?

  So I just looked something up, and from what I can tell, in federal court- It doesn't matter if the act was intentional, even if it was murder, anyone under the age of 18 at the time of the offense is legally a juvenile.

• 28:03Derrick Levasseur?

  There you go.

• 28:03Stephanie Harlowe?

  And then that defendant's going to be prosecuted as a juvenile.

• 28:08Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, so that's the mandate.

• 28:09Stephanie Harlowe?

  So that's just kind of across the board.

• 28:10Derrick Levasseur?

  Kind of like minimum sentencing, like there's a mandate that they have to follow, there's prerequisites set up and that's what it falls under. So I guess it's going to come down to the circumstances of the case. He's going to be charged as a juvenile. That doesn't mean he can't end up in a juvenile prison somewhere for an extended period of time, or at least until he's 18. It's all going to depend on the facts and circumstances, which unfortunately, we may never know. And I do think that those matter in this case because if we're talking more sexual in nature where there was a refusal, I wouldn't care if he spent the rest of his life behind bars. Now, if they're convincing in their argument that there was a verbal dispute that led to a physical altercation, and it was a mutual thing, and there was some type of horrific accident, maybe.

• 28:54Derrick Levasseur?

  I just don't know how you paint a picture of unintentional accident, but there's clear signs of manual asphyxiation, some form of asphyxiation.

• 29:02Stephanie Harlowe?

  I don't think they're even trying to do that. It just looks like...

• 29:05Derrick Levasseur?

  It sounds like the father's going that angle.

• 29:06Stephanie Harlowe?

  The father's, I think he's probably trying, but what it looks like is, they could, the US attorney could file a motion to transfer this kid to an adult status. But they might just keep it in juvenile because even with an intentional killing, the federal prosecutors might believe that, you know, this kid can benefit from rehabilitation. He lacks a prior violent history. They are considering mental health factors and assess evidentiary risks. So what does that mean, assess evidentiary risks? Like, as in, based on the evidence of this case, we don't think he's going to be a risk to the general public. That this was kind of, I guess, a one-time thing.

• 29:50Stephanie Harlowe?

  Where does that put Anna when it comes to justice, though? That's really concerning, yeah.

• 29:54Derrick Levasseur?

  That's my point. What do we always talk about when we have a simple metric as far as any case, when we talk about sentencing? For you and I, we have like a very pragmatic approach to it. If the victim no longer has their life...

• 30:07Derrick Levasseur?

  Then the offender shouldn't either. I know that's kind of a simplistic way of looking at it and there's nuance to that and it's not always the case. I'm just talking from a general perspective. I just don't see a world in my brain where there is a victim who lost all of their hopes and dreams and everything, their aspirations. They're, they're not going to get to realize any of that. And yet the person responsible for taking that from them gets to go on and live their life with, with minimal penalties. To me, that is not justice.

• 30:35Stephanie Harlowe?

  Especially because he's not being named, right? So he could technically go back out there, um, go, go out and move to a different state. And the people that he knows, the people he works for, the person that he gets in a relationship with would have no idea that he was the kid on the cruise ship.

• 30:50Derrick Levasseur?

  And imagine he does something like this again.

• 30:52Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, yeah, it would.

• 30:53Derrick Levasseur?

  And you know who's not gonna be held responsible?

• 30:55Stephanie Harlowe?

  Exactly. How many times has that happened? Right?

• 30:57Derrick Levasseur?

  That's my problem. So you can do things to try to prevent it from happening. I think rehabilitation is a real thing, especially with juveniles. You have to, we have to take that approach. However, I do think rehabilitation can involve being away from society for an, for a period of time. So that you have the opportunity to really focus on what you need to focus on while we're also protecting those around you. For many reoccurrences.

• 31:22Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, this is a hard one.

• 31:23Derrick Levasseur?

  I think there's a happy medium in there. This is a hard one, which is why we want to hear your thoughts on it. Let us know down in the comments below. What do you think about this person being charged as a juvenile? What do you think about the fact that they could be convicted of a crime and still let out without serving any time?

• 31:40Stephanie Harlowe?

  And it would probably be wiped, right? Like that wouldn't show up. I don't know how that works all the time, but I know.

• 31:44Derrick Levasseur?

  They turn an adult, they could just completely be buried where it, their record would be sealed. And then finally, depending on what the circumstances are, which we, we may never know. Does your opinion change whether it was a altercation that got out of hand and someone was in a moment of just rage and they did something they regret? Or, you know, on the other hand, this was something sexual in nature. I think we all can agree on that one, but does that? Skew your judgment as far as what you think the penalty should be. Let us know down in the comments below. If you're watching on YouTube, if you're listening on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any other platform, leave a comment, leave a review. We're constantly looking to get your feedback. We would greatly appreciate it.

• 32:26Derrick Levasseur?

  That's going to do it for us, guys. We'll be back later this week with Elizabeth Smart, Part Five. It's our fifth and final part. So make sure you catch up on the series before the finale, and we do have an important announcement at the end of the week. So tune in for that as well. Until then, everyone stay safe out there and we will see you soon.

• 32:44Stephanie Harlowe?

  Bye, guys.