MYSTERIOUS DEATH OF: Heather Turner

In the early hours of May 4, 2017, responding deputies arrived at a home in Dallas, GA after receiving a report of a woman with a gunshot wound to the head. While it first appeared to be death by suicide, questions started to swirl when the right people looked in the right places. And slowly the truth behind this picture-perfect marriage came to light, showcasing a whole different story behind closed doors. Thanks to people like Mary Alldredge, and other friends and loved ones of Heather, we’ve been able to take a deep dive into the many questions surrounding the mysterious death of Heather Turner.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Ashley Flowers?

  Hi Crime Junkies, I'm your host, Ashley Flowers.

• 0:03Speaker 01

  And I'm Brett.

• 0:04Ashley Flowers?

  And today's story revolves around something that keeps me up at night. If two people are in a room and one of them dies, can you ever really know the full truth? As the saying goes, two can keep a secret if one of them is dead. And despite all the unknown, a dedicated group of people haven't stopped asking questions in this case. And so are we, all in hopes of understanding what happened to Heather Turner.

• 1:06Ashley Flowers?

  It's early Thursday morning on May 4th, 2017, when deputies from the Polton County Sheriff's Office pull up to a home in Dallas, Georgia. They're responding to a frantic 911 call that came in from 43-year-old Andy Turner, saying that his wife, Heather, shot herself in the bathroom. He's actually still on the phone with the dispatcher when responding deputies get there. The dispatcher had been trying to calm Andy down and talk him through how to do CPR, which he does in between crying and what sounds like throwing up. But really, it must have been like dry heaves, because responding deputies don't see vomit anywhere when they arrive. But they do see steam coming from the bathroom, where they find Andy on the floor, holding his 35-year-old wife, Heather Turner.

• 1:49Ashley Flowers?

  She's face up and completely naked, except for some towels draped over her body. And it looks like her hair might be wet, but it's hard to tell because of all the blood that is coming from a large wound beside her left ear. And the blood isn't just on her, it's everywhere, on the towels around her, near the base of a closet door in the bathroom. And it's a little bit hard to like get your bearings, so our team actually put together a layout of this bathroom that we're including in our video. Now, the first responders try to get Andy out of the room so that they can look at Heather. And by now, the couple's eight-year-old daughter is at the deputy's heels, asking if her mommy is gonna be okay.

• 2:26Speaker 01

  Was she sleeping when they got there?

• 2:27Ashley Flowers?

  No, she had woken up to a loud noise earlier, presumably the gunshot. She just saw her mom's legs in the bathroom, like, or on the bathroom floor before her dad got her to like get away. But she'd seen enough to be worried. And the terrible answer was no, her mom wasn't going to be okay. Heather was pronounced dead right there on the floor of the bathroom. In the reports from deputies, on the counter, there was a notebook folded open to a page with just five words written on it. It says, "I'm sorry, I love you." Now, there's a world where this story could have ended right here, because the decision of what to do next fell to the coroner. And she had two options: release Heather's body to the funeral home,

• 3:12Ashley Flowers?

  basically saying this is a suicide, no further investigation needed, or she could proceed with an autopsy. And even though this coroner was brand-new, only four months into the job, she says that she saw enough that made her know that the right thing to do was to take a closer look at this, to be absolutely sure about what this is. Because there were a couple of little things that she saw when she got to the scene that nagged at her. I mean, they might be easily explained away, once they do the investigation, but they have to do the investigation.

• 3:43Speaker 01

  Right, we say that like all the time.

• 3:45Ashley Flowers?

  Exactly.

• 3:46Speaker 01

  What were the things that she was kind of like, that were flagging for her?

• 3:49Ashley Flowers?

  Well, for one, even though it looks like most of the blood spatter is lower, almost like Heather was crouched down near the linen closet and toilet when the trigger was pulled, there is one area about midway up the wall near the toilet that looks darker, like, maybe it had been cleaned up in some way. She doesn't know for sure, but it just stands out to her. And Heather's wounds also stand out. Now, caveat, this coroner is not a medical doctor. But by the way, she's also not like an untrained Joe Schmo off the street. Like, and you don't have to go through extensive schooling to be a coroner.

• 4:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 4:22Ashley Flowers?

  We have talked about this before.

• 4:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:24Ashley Flowers?

  But she did. And she has been brought to the scene to take note of the state of the body, to investigate the death. So she saw the same thing that responding deputies did, which was a hole on the left side of Heather's head. And I had our team make a diagram of this as well. But she also makes note of a smaller wound on the right side, like higher up. She doesn't know what it is, but it's something to be looked at in the autopsy.

• 4:52Speaker 01

  I mean, could it be an exit wound?

• 4:53Ashley Flowers?

  She doesn't know, but she also reports that she doesn't see a bullet or any sign of a bullet in the room or the surrounding area. So you see why she's like, hey, you know what, like, let's get that autopsy.

• 5:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, was the gun still in the bathroom when they found Heather?

• 5:08Ashley Flowers?

  It was. The revolver, which was Heather's gun, was kind of like sticking out under a bloody towel beside the toilet, which was near where her head was positioned. But I think it's kind of hard to say much more about the position of anything, because Andy later tells deputies that at some point, he realized that he was sitting on the gun, so he moved it over to the side. So as they prep to remove Heather's body, the coroner talks with Andy about the hours leading up to Heather's death. Now, Andy says that last night, the family had dinner together, and after, he and Heather had husband-and-wife time, all night long.

• 5:45Speaker 01

  I'm kind of scared to ask, but what's husband-and-wife time?

• 5:48Ashley Flowers?

  This is not me. Well, husband-and-wife time is sex, and he calls it husband-and-wife time.

• 5:53Speaker 01

  And he said all night?

• 5:55Ashley Flowers?

  From after dinner till like 4:00 or 5:00 o'clock in the morning.

• 6:01Speaker 01

  Where is their daughter? Because she's like eight, that's eight of my daughter.

• 6:05Ashley Flowers?

  She, I don't know what time they had dinner. She must have gone to bed shortly after dinner. She slept on the couch that night? I don't know. Either way, eventually, after marathon husband-and-wife night, Andy fell asleep in the wee hours of the morning. Now, he wrote a book that we read for this case, about his experience. And in it, he specifically said that he fell asleep with his head laying on Heather's back. He says that he was lying in bed when Heather got up to get ready for work, and then he heard this loud pop. He jumps up, runs to the bathroom. This is the same time that his daughter did. And that's when he found Heather on the ground and told her daughter to like get out so she wouldn't see anything. Now, Andy tells the coroner and the deputies that there were no warning signs.

• 6:50Ashley Flowers?

  I mean, in his book, he says that they never even fought. In all their time together, Andy claims they maybe had like two disagreements. And in the ring light of social media posts, their relationship did look picture-perfect. They had these, what they called coffee time chats, that they would post on Facebook to talk about their relationship, and of course, God. Because why do I feel like these couple-to-camera videos are always talking about God and perfect relationships?

• 7:15Speaker 01

  Yet somehow, they're also always ending up on our show.

• 7:20Ashley Flowers?

  There is a theme here. And I always say, the more you have to like project this image of a perfect marriage or a life, the less I believe it. And they were projecting. And all the photos that Andy posted online were of red-bottomed shoes that he bought Heather, the vacations that they were taking. It looked like they were living a life of luxury. But the relationship had bumps from the very beginning. They each were married with kids before they met one another. In Andy's book, he says that he didn't meet Heather until they were both already going through their respective divorces. But our reporters talked to multiple people with ties to the couple who dispute that. The story around town is that Heather and Andy met at church when she was still with her first husband.

• 8:04Ashley Flowers?

  Andy was an associate pastor, and Heather and her husband were actually getting marriage counseling from Andy when the affair allegedly started in 2008.

• 8:14Speaker 01

  Okay, why am I getting Micah and J.P. Miller vibes here?

• 8:18Ashley Flowers?

  So we were reporting on this story the same time that the doc on Netflix came out about Micah Miller. And there were like some weird déjà vu moments for me. So like, just wait. So eventually, when their divorces were finalized, Heather and Andy moved in together, and after Heather got pregnant with their daughter, their only child together, and then they got married in 2010. Now, while he's saying that there were no warning signs that she was gonna take her own life, Andy is upfront with investigators at the scene that Heather had been going through a lot recently. She was going through a custody battle with her ex-husband. She had lost her grandfather, who she was super close with. And the real thing that sticks out like a sore thumb is he says that Heather was supposed to resign

• 9:02Ashley Flowers?

  or be fired from her job literally that day.

• 9:06Speaker 01

  For what?

• 9:07Ashley Flowers?

  Oh, I have the police files. And in it, he tells investigators at the scene, she quote, "was going to get fired for having an affair with a coworker and was going to be fired when she went to work that morning." Which clearly, he had known about, because he's telling them about this. But by the time Andy writes his book, he's claiming he had no idea. He just writes that he knew there was a guy that had been harassing her at work, and she was actually getting in trouble for personal emails she was writing to Andy. But what he wrote in the book is not accurate, because I'm looking at the files.

• 9:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:45Ashley Flowers?

  And investigators spoke with Heather's boss and coworkers. And their story about what led up to this is clear and consistent, from person to person. Heather worked as a clerk at the Paulding County courthouse. And her coworkers there confirmed that there was, in fact, an affair happening between Heather and another clerk there, that she, one that she worked with. And it might have just been emotional, maybe more, but they had gotten pulled into the judge's office the day before and they were basically told like, listen, you need to resign or you'll be fired. Choice was theirs to make the next day.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  Which is the day that she died.

• 10:21Ashley Flowers?

  Yes. But this is just the tip of the iceberg. Because what Andy left out of his story to deputies was everything that led up to this affair. And that's something Heather's coworkers lay out in horrible detail. One deputy clerk who worked with Heather said that they used to be close and Heather would confide in her about the way that Andy was with her behind closed doors. Heather allegedly said that he cheated on her before and had been physically violent. She told this coworker that a few years ago, Andy had even broken her ribs. Now, more recently, Heather told her that she stopped sleeping in the bed with Andy and she was sleeping in one of their other bedrooms in the house.

• 11:03Ashley Flowers?

  A different deputy clerk tells detectives about, three weeks ago, Andy brought his and Heather's daughter to the office so that they could all have lunch together. Now, according to this clerk, when she tried going into the break room, the door was locked, which was weird to her, so the clerk unlocked it and found Heather pressed against the wall and Andy right in her face. Now, Andy didn't write about anything like this incident in his book, so I can't tell you what his side of things are. I thought for a second that he was going to talk to us for this episode because our reporter got a text back from him on Monday, September 14. He said that he was traveling, said, you know, send your questions by email, I'll get back to you on Wednesday. We emailed him over, next day, crickets. She even checked back in two weeks later, just to like, make sure he got the email,

• 11:46Ashley Flowers?

  texted him on the same number that they were communicating with, and he didn't respond for a while. So I thought Andy was going to ghost us. But at the 11th hour, he came back to us and said that he did not want to participate in our coverage and that the sheriff's office has all of the facts. But his side of the story is in his book, so we're going to rely on that. And the only real work incident that he talks about in this, leading up to Heather's death, is one time where he says he made a call to the coworker that Heather was having an affair with, and he says that got blown out of proportion and is at the center of what he says people online are calling "cover-up conspiracies."

• 12:24Speaker 01

  What do you mean?

• 12:26Ashley Flowers?

  I'm not sure exactly. I mean, add it to the list of questions that I wanted to ask him, but like, a call and showing up are two very different incidents if both happened.

• 12:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:36Ashley Flowers?

  Now, there are no known reports regarding that break room incident, but people at the office were concerned, especially the judge. Apparently, most of the office knew what the fight was about, Heather's affair with her coworker. The judge tells detectives that she recently found out about the affair and basically told them, like, this is a major HR issue. They had this whole talk, right, the day before Heather died. But the judge also said that she had conversations with Heather just about Andy, because Heather did confide in her as well about some of the stuff that was allegedly going on at home. The judge even recommended to Heather that she get a temporary protective order against Andy.

• 13:18Ashley Flowers?

  But Heather just said that she planned on leaving Andy soon. She said the same thing to that first clerk that I mentioned. Two days before she died, she had said that she was going to leave Andy that very weekend.

• 13:32Speaker 01

  And I assume they talked to, like, the coworker too? Like, I know they talked to the judge and these two clerks, but like, the coworker she was having an affair with?

• 13:39Ashley Flowers?

  Yeah, so his name's Joel Haybear, he goes by Rob. And Heather had worked with him at the probate court since she started less than a year ago. Now, according to Rob, they became fast friends and pretty quickly Heather was telling him even more than the other clerks about the alleged abuse that she was experiencing at home. Our reporter, Taylor Day, spoke to Rob and he said, "It's not like she just like, came up to him and dumped. He had to really press her for that information, asking if Andy hit her or forced himself on her." And according to Rob, she told him yes to all of those things. Rob says that they started getting more intimate about five months before all of this, and a lot of it was through emails.

• 14:21Ashley Flowers?

  But somehow, the judge found out about these emails, which is why she called them in for that meeting. Now, we got the emails and messages with all of the documents that we FOIA'd, and some of the messages are flirty, but by April, things took a turn. Now, this was allegedly after Andy found out about her and Rob, but before that courthouse break room incident. And Heather writes to Rob and says this. Let's face it, if student loans are slowing down your financial goals, it might be time for a smarter strategy. That's where today's sponsor, SoFi, comes in. SoFi is helping you tackle student debt by refinancing your loans with flexible monthly

• 15:06Ashley Flowers?

  payments that fit your budget. We're talking about the potential to lower your interest rate, reduce your monthly payment, or even pay off your loan sooner, depending on the term you choose. You can also consolidate your student loans into one simple monthly payment, so you could save more each month and work towards achieving your long-term financial ambitions. SoFi offers competitive fixed and variable rates and no origination fees, prepayment fees, or late fees required. It takes just two minutes to check your rate with SoFi, and they have already helped over 500,000 members refinance more than $50 billion in student loans. Visit sofi.com/crimejunkie to see how much you can save. That's sofi.com/crimejunkie and start making smarter money moves with SoFi. SoFi's student loans are originated by SoFi Bank, N.A., member FDIC.

• 15:51Ashley Flowers?

  Additional terms and conditions apply. NMLS 696891. This email to Rob is dated April 5th, so like, a month before she died. Amber, I'm going to have you read this.

• 16:09Speaker 01

  He took my keys, called me a [bleep], told me he knew I was screwing an attorney, told, redacted, that I'm ripping our family apart, said I don't love anyone but myself. He said, "No one else will ever love me, that I will allow myself to be used because I have no self-worth and no one will ever see anything other than an opportunity when they look at me." We fought until 3:00 AM. I refused to go into the bedroom because he locked me in there yesterday at lunch. I fell asleep sitting at the kitchen table and woke up at 5:00 to go to work. My mother died 16 years ago today. This is a difficult day in general for me, and now I still have to deal with all of his craziness.

• 16:53Speaker 01

  He told me he would bury me before he signed divorce papers. I think that was a threat, but he said it was just an expression.

• 16:59Ashley Flowers?

  Is it?

• 17:00Speaker 01

  Then he just cries and cries and loves me so much. Then two minutes later, he hates me again. My brain is fried. I miss you so much it hurts, and now you're upset because of me and I hate that.

• 17:13Ashley Flowers?

  I mean, the stuff she's describing in this email, if true, is like, classic.

• 17:18Speaker 01

  I was going to say, like, textbook.

• 17:20Ashley Flowers?

  Textbook, the way he's talking about her trying to like, chip away at her self-confidence, even the like, keeping her up on, like, she's going to go to work.

• 17:27Speaker 01

  I was going to say, the sleep deprivation of it. Like, that's like, very classic manipulation tactic.

• 17:32Ashley Flowers?

  Now, Rob also tells detectives that one time Heather came to him and mentioned finding a strange search on the computer, something about suicide. And she said she asked Andy about it and he told her not to worry.

• 17:45Speaker 01

  I mean, that's definitely something that you worry about.

• 17:48Ashley Flowers?

  Yes, and I don't know this for sure, but I think it's possible that at the time when she saw this, she might have been more concerned for Andy than herself. Because another story that she allegedly told Rob was about a night when Andy was drunk, sitting on the couch with a gun, talking about making her rich. I don't really know what to make of it all, but in the case files, detectives do get a search warrant for Andy's phone and they find an internet search dated April 23rd. So this is like, a week and a half before Heather died. And it was for, quote, "Does suicide void life insurance in the USA?" Now, Rob said he knew how dangerous Heather's situation was.

• 18:30Ashley Flowers?

  He said the day that they got called into the judge's chamber, he was telling her to leave, to go stay with her father, Billy, somewhere with somebody around so she would be safe. He said they both knew that they couldn't stay at that job anyways, and his plan was that they were going to resign so that they could be together. So on their way out that day, Heather handed him a letter that she had written in response to one that he'd given her, and he shared a copy of this letter with us. It's mostly just about like, her feelings for him. But importantly, at the end, she writes, "I love you and I would love to see you over the weekend."

• 19:06Speaker 01

  So she wants to see him that weekend? I mean, she's telling coworkers that she's leaving her husband that weekend, going to get a divorce, and before that weekend, she dies?

• 19:16Ashley Flowers?

  Yes. Except, the divorce part seems a little bit up in the air because, turns out, technically, she might not have needed a divorce? Rob says that Heather and Andy's marriage wasn't even real. Heather told him that Andy forged the pastor's signature on the certificate and she turned it into the probate court. Now, Andy says in his book that they got married in their living room, got a friend to sign it later, and Heather was the one who was supposed to file the paperwork. But regardless, Heather was telling people that the wedding was never officiated, and apparently, they never exchanged vows or had any kind of ceremony. And both of those things, an officiant and a ceremony, are required to make marriages legal in Georgia.

• 20:00Speaker 01

  So they're not married under God or under the law?

• 20:04Ashley Flowers?

  I mean, I think the law saw them as married, but there might have been this forgery thing in the mix. And Rob's not the only one that Heather told this to. She told the judge this same thing, that their marriage was fake.

• 20:18Speaker 01

  But, but why? Like, I mean, it seems like at one point at least, she did want to be with him.

• 20:23Ashley Flowers?

  I have no idea what this is about, or what role each of them played in this forgery. I honestly, this is something I could spiral on, but everything I'm thinking or would say, like, is just baseless. So, let's just keep rolling. Our crime junkies can write in and tell us like, what they think about us.

• 20:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I want to know like, all the theories.

• 20:42Ashley Flowers?

  So, as more and more of this information is coming in, investigators are eager to get back in front of Andy, right? Except, they can't. Every time they try to get him in for an interview, he either refuses or defers to his lawyer, who declines for him. And in his book, Andy claims that he wasn't going to do a thing for the sheriff's office, because he already answered their questions and they kept harassing him.

• 21:06Speaker 01

  Wait, when did he answer their questions?

• 21:08Ashley Flowers?

  I think he's talking about like, at the scene. And he did talk to them there, but he didn't do any kind of like, official sit-down interview in the weeks and months after.

• 21:16Speaker 01

  Right, like, after they found out about all the abuse allegations and stuff.

• 21:20Ashley Flowers?

  Correct, which is probably why they kept asking for an interview.

• 21:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:25Ashley Flowers?

  Now, one of the times, I can see in the reports, that Andy's attorney replies to a request to me, saying something like, "Andy's not coming in for this interview, because he, like, the lawyer, he is not going to, quote, 'feed his client up to the police in a homicide investigation.'" And the detectives are like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa."

• 21:43Speaker 01

  Who said homicide?

• 21:44Ashley Flowers?

  "We thought this was a suicide." And the attorney goes, like, "Oh, I must have misspoken." And by the way, we reached out to him too, for comment, but he didn't get back to us either.

• 21:52Speaker 01

  I mean, to be clear, is it technically anything yet, or just a death investigation?

• 21:57Ashley Flowers?

  Yes, your spidey senses are correct, because they're still awaiting an autopsy result, which were about to just come in from the GBI, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation. In the autopsy report, the medical examiner says that the bullet entered the left side of Heather's head, and that the bullet was found lodged in a bone in her skull. That's why they didn't find a bullet at the scene. He said there were multiple skull fractures, which is to be expected in a case involving a gunshot wound to the head, but there wasn't any other trauma. Another thing the ME doesn't note, is any sign of stippling or muzzle burns. So, in the end, the ME says that, based on the trajectory of the bullet, and there being

• 22:39Ashley Flowers?

  no other visible wounds, they determine that the wound was self-inflicted. However, the GBI decides to rule Heather's death as undetermined, since the sheriff's office was still investigating. And I can see from the investigative files, that part of their investigation involved speaking to Andy's first wife, Mindy. Now, remember, Andy didn't want to talk to us, but he did include his feelings about Mindy in his book, which is called, "Who Turned Up the Silence." But Mindy has her own side of the story. And she didn't go on to write a book, she collected a binder of documentation that she turned over to the sheriff's office. And there is a copy of the binder's contents in the case files.

• 23:23Ashley Flowers?

  It's over 100 pages. She had been documenting everything, from the abuse that she allegedly endured at the hands of Andy, to the numerous affairs that he allegedly had while they were married. I mean, she even included copies of handwritten letters that Heather wrote to Andy at the beginning of their relationship, or their alleged affair in 2008. And emails that Andy and Heather sent to each other are full of really awful things that they wished would happen to Mindy, including some pretty disturbing statements, like, Andy writing that he would like to feed Mindy to alligators, because she wanted, God forbid, alimony and child support. And Heather responded, "Do it. F her. I personally like the alligators better."

• 24:08Ashley Flowers?

  Now, Rob told our reporters, that Heather told him Andy forged a lot of emails between them, and that she never said those things. But we don't have any proof of that.

• 24:19Speaker 01

  And I'm not, like, excusing what was said at all, if Heather, like, actually said it, but I always wonder in situations like this, like, what story, like, what version of the story the other woman gets?

• 24:29Ashley Flowers?

  Right, like, I'm sure, like, his version of events, even his own perspective, like, it's, even if it felt true to him, is gonna be very different. And that's not a thing specific to this case, or this divorce between him and Mindy.

• 24:42Speaker 01

  Right. I mean, I'm not trying to, like, keep bringing up the Micah Miller case, but we saw this with, like, all of JP Miller's exes. Whoever he got with, got like, a different version, a different story, than like, Micah's truth.

• 24:58Ashley Flowers?

  Yeah, I mean, his church, right, got a different story than Micah's truth. Yes, and while we're comparing cases, there's another element of this one, that you can hold side by side to the Miller case. To me, it seems like, just like JP Miller had this pastor father, who always took his son's side, so did Andy. Included in Mindy's binder, is an account that she gives of when Andy had allegedly put his hands on her and started strangling her. She was able to get away, and she called Andy's dad, Curtis, who was like, this traveling pastor at one point. She was calling him basically to try and diffuse the situation. But when he got there, and she made a comment about calling the sheriff's office, Curtis

• 25:42Ashley Flowers?

  allegedly told her that she shouldn't, because, quote, "The ministry is bigger than your problems."

• 25:48Speaker 01

  So, she shouldn't leave her abuser, because it would hurt the church?

• 25:52Ashley Flowers?

  Sound familiar? And on another occasion, after Mindy and Andy separated, and they were going through a messy custody battle, Curtis sent this handwritten letter to the person who gives the judge, like, their recommendation on the custody arrangement.

• 26:09Speaker 01

  Oh, like a guardian ad litem?

• 26:10Ashley Flowers?

  Right. So, that letter, it was also in the binder, and it is kind of hard to read, but it's on letterhead from Pastor Dr. Curtis Turner. And Britt, I'm gonna have you read this highlighted part, it's like, the fourth paragraph.

• 26:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, his handwriting is like, really tiny.

• 26:27Ashley Flowers?

  It's hard to read, yeah.

• 26:29Speaker 01

  "I am by no means a perfect man. By I and my family have had a good name in this county for many, many years. We are here, going nowhere, trying to live godly Christian lives before all. So for God's sake and our name's sake, someone help me understand why we can't work on, help, support, and try to build a good and strong family."

• 26:52Ashley Flowers?

  Even the way he, like, worded it, is interesting to me, like, "We are trying to live godly Christian lives before all," like, it's a show.

• 26:59Speaker 01

  Like, God's name, like, for God's sake and our name's sake?

• 27:02Ashley Flowers?

  Yeah.

• 27:03Speaker 01

  Like, very...

• 27:04Ashley Flowers?

  It's about how, like, or what people, yeah, perceive them to be. And listen, not for this case, like, in particular, but I just need to say it, because, like, I'm so tired of seeing this bull**** fly. You're not living a godly Christian life, if you are an abuser, or enabling an abuser. The end, full stop, no excuses, no, like, head of the household nonsense that justifies emotional, financial, psychological, or physical abuse. I know our lieutenant governor here in Indiana is out there preaching that God is a God of hate, but absolutely no, I like, I do not believe that. We grew up in church, like...

• 27:39Speaker 01

  Which, like, for everything that it was.

• 27:42Ashley Flowers?

  All the good, bad, and ugly, I was told, it's like, what I read in my Bible, is that God is a God of love. We are supposed to show love to one another, we are supposed to show compassion. Now, Andy does not address every allegation of abuse in his book. He just says that these claims of abuse were all made up by women who were against him. And he details an instance, where he claims his first wife lied about Andy hurting her, and called the sheriff's office on him. And we reached out to Mindy for comment, but we've not heard back as of this recording. However, when we reached out to Pastor Dr. Curtis for comment, he sent our reporter this text message, which I thought was interesting, and I also obviously printed out, because

• 28:25Ashley Flowers?

  I had to. He says, "Here it is, five exclamation points. She was not murdered, exclamation point, the end, exclamation point. That should end it. No more calls, thank you. Looking forward, Titus 2:14." Pray hand emojis. I don't know how read up you are, on your Bible, but I told you to bring a Bible today.

• 28:50Speaker 01

  I said, "You told me to bring a Bible today, so I assume I have to look up Titus 2:14."

• 28:54Ashley Flowers?

  Yup, you sure do.

• 28:57Speaker 01

  Okay, Titus 2:14 says, who gave, it's like, in the middle of a sentence, I feel like that's important. "Who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness, and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good."

• 29:13Ashley Flowers?

  I don't know if this is something he writes at the end of every message, and he just, like, feels it in his heart.

• 29:18Speaker 01

  It's like his verse, or whatever?

• 29:20Ashley Flowers?

  I found it a little strange, that it was like, a message about forgiveness?

• 29:25Speaker 01

  There's, I, I need to set this Bible...

• 29:27Ashley Flowers?

  You don't even know what's coming. So, listen, let me say this. Maybe everything can be true at once. If Heather did take her own life, what drove her to it, then? Also, if anyone was asking for forgiveness, for anything, like, I was taught, that God forgives, but you gotta mean it, and you gotta change, Andy, for sure, did not change, or at least not much, because while the investigation into his wife's death was still ongoing, like, before the GBI had even come back with an official, undetermined ruling,

• 30:06Ashley Flowers?

  he had started up the same old cycle, with a brand-new woman.

• 30:17Speaker 01

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• 31:19Ashley Flowers?

  About a week after Heather's death, 43-year-old Andy was introduced to 26-year-old Christie Chupp through a mutual friend. Christie told our reporter Taylor Day that she had just moved back to the area from Hawaii with her two young boys, and this friend said that Andy could help her get into acting because apparently he owns a film studio in Paulding County? Question mark.

• 31:44Speaker 01

  And he's an associate pastor?

• 31:46Ashley Flowers?

  He was. Now, he somehow supposedly is involved in the film industry, which I know what you're thinking. When I think film industry, I think Paulding County, Georgia.

• 31:55Speaker 01

  I mean, when I think podcasting, it's Indianapolis, Indiana.

• 31:58Ashley Flowers?

  That is fair. I just think it's weird because I can't pin down how Andy made money to afford to live or his lifestyle. In the investigative records, it's like nobody can actually say what Andy does for work. Nobody seems to know. Anyways, Christie says that when she and Andy finally meet up, he was honest with her and told her that his wife passed away and that he needed a nanny to help with his kids, especially on this upcoming cruise. And this is the same thing that Andy does say in his book, by the way. But Christie gave us a lot more detail on her perspective, which is interesting. She says that the way Andy talked about his wife made her think that his wife had passed away

• 32:39Ashley Flowers?

  years ago from like an illness or something. To her, he didn't sound like the grieving husband that you would expect him to be if he had lost his wife a little over a week ago at that point.

• 32:50Speaker 01

  In like a pretty abrupt way with no warning signs.

• 32:53Ashley Flowers?

  Right. And that is what he told deputies. No warning signs. Out of nowhere. He and his wife are happy, then she takes her life. Now, Christie didn't find out for a while how or when Heather died, so she took the job of nannying the kids and joined them on this cruise that happened in July.

• 33:10Speaker 01

  And the cruise, was this booked before or after Heather died?

• 33:13Ashley Flowers?

  It was booked before. Christie was actually taking Heather's place, and in more ways than one, because around the same time, she says that she got intimate with Andy. And I'm not even gonna get into it, but there is at least one other woman in this window of time, like this matter of weeks since Heather died, who claims in official records that she was also getting intimate with Andy. But back to Christie. They start up a full-on relationship, but pretty soon, she starts having issues with Andy. She tells us that he was allegedly both mentally and physically abusive to her. One of the worst nights she recalls is when she asked him about the age of one young woman he was supposedly spending time with. And Christie told our reporter, and it is documented in investigative

• 33:57Ashley Flowers?

  records, that Andy kept her up all night abusing her sexually and assaulting her. So, scared and desperate, she says she begged him to either let her go or kill her, but he didn't either. Christie says that when the sun came up the next morning, something changed, and he finally let her go and then just went on with life like normal.

• 34:20Speaker 01

  I mean, it's interesting that Heather's last night, he admits to being like up all night with her, too.

• 34:26Ashley Flowers?

  Right. Consensually, he says, which I will say, the autopsy didn't find any physical evidence of sexual assault. But still, Heather is telling people that they aren't even sleeping in the same room at that point, that she was about to leave him that very weekend.

• 34:41Speaker 01

  Well, and this is also like another Micah Miller parallel. She told people that JP would keep her up like all night.

• 34:48Ashley Flowers?

  Yeah. It was not lost on me that they're up all night, like right into the morning hours when Heather was supposed to get ready for work, and like a big day, too.

• 34:56Speaker 01

  A major day of work.

• 34:58Ashley Flowers?

  Anyways, Christie told us that that night she had was a breaking point and what prompted her to press charges and file for a protection order against Andy in August of 2018. The protection order is the first time any of these alleged incidents of abuse are documented with officials. But, Christie tells us, and this is in the reports, about a week before the court hearing, she found out that she was pregnant with Andy's baby. Right before the hearing, she miscarried, but this totally messed with her. And she said Andy had isolated her so much that he was the only person she felt like she could turn to for comfort. That is not unusual. So, she eventually went back to him. The

• 35:39Ashley Flowers?

  hearing for the restraining order is on September 5, and less than 10 days later, she and Andy are engaged, which I know might sound unbelievable to somebody who hasn't lived through abuse.

• 35:53Speaker 01

  But it's the reality of it.

• 35:54Ashley Flowers?

  Yeah, and I actually, I want to dive more into this a little bit later, and I'm gonna have something important at the end of Heather's story, because I think it's so important to understand. But I do wanna get through Heather's story first. So, Christie gets back with him, but surprise, surprise, things don't get better. Christie says that Andy even convinced her to go on the stand and say that the abuse, like all the stuff she put in that restraining order, didn't happen. And when we asked Andy for comment, he said Christie is an admitted perjurer, implying that she's lying. Christie says that their relationship is on and off until she was able to walk away for good in 2019. In that same year, she spoke with detectives. She said that Andy never really talked about

• 36:38Ashley Flowers?

  Heather's death with her, so she didn't have any insight into what happened that night. But she could speak to what kind of partner he was. She told them about Andy's alleged fetish for sexual assault scenarios. And she also says that one time, while they were having sex, he asked Christie to hold Heather's ashes so that he could be having sex with both of them. Now, she refused, and he's like, oh, don't ever repeat that. I was just kidding. Now, it took until November of 2019 for Christie to finally be done with Andy. And he had moved on by then, too, and was dating the woman who is now his current wife,

• 37:19Ashley Flowers?

  Kelly. But Andy didn't seem to be totally done with trying to wreak havoc on Christie's life, because Christie told us that out of the blue, she got a message from somebody saying basically, you're awful for what you did to Andy and his family, and that she is the one that should be dead and not Heather. And Christie is like, hold up, like, what are you talking about? Well, turns out, Andy allegedly had been telling at least one person that Christie was his and Heather's nanny, and that they planned this whole thing where Andy contacted Christie through an app and told her where Heather's gun was in the car,

• 38:00Ashley Flowers?

  and then she supposedly climbed through a window in the bathroom and shot Heather. Andy allegedly told this person that when he heard the noise, he assumed it was done, so he walked into the bathroom and saw Christie crawling out the window, noticed the bullet was laying on the floor, and like hands it to her through the window.

• 38:19Speaker 01

  I'm sorry, wait. Who's he saying this to? Because it, like, he's not just saying that she was killed. He's admitting to being involved, and this is not like ever part of any story?

• 38:31Ashley Flowers?

  I don't know what to make of this, because like, okay, take Andy out of the story, like, or being part of it. Like, Andy has never said anything, to your point, publicly about Heather's case, other than it was a suicide. Like, there's never even been so much as another theory floated by him.

• 38:47Speaker 01

  I mean, is this person making it up?

• 38:49Ashley Flowers?

  Well, Christie says she fully believes that he told this woman that story. But she is clear with us. She's like, I was not involved in this anyway. And she has never been considered a suspect by investigators. And this is something that maybe I wouldn't have even mentioned if it were just the Facebook message that she got, except there it was, like the same account in investigative records. Not from Christie, but it's from an informant who says that Andy was drinking a lot and intoxicated when he told her pretty much the exact same thing.

• 39:24Speaker 01

  I mean, and was Christie the informant?

• 39:27Ashley Flowers?

  No, somebody who said that they heard it directly from Andy. And the informant also tells detectives that Andy said a neighbor gave a statement saying they saw someone running from the back of the house into a vehicle to like speed off.

• 39:40Speaker 01

  Made a statement. Is it in the records?

• 39:43Ashley Flowers?

  No. So like, this is what I'm saying. I don't know what this is, and it doesn't really go anywhere. Like, we know there wasn't even a bullet to pass off, right? Like, that was in Heather's head. Maybe they meant shell casing, but revolvers don't eject those, and there was an empty one in Heather's gun. So, almost any way you slice it, that part of the story can't even be true or right. But there is this one little piece of the story that nags at me. So, according to the informant, Andy told her that when he was on the phone with 911, when he opened the window back up to pass her the bullet or the shell casing or whatever it could have been, when he does this, a little alarm went off.

• 40:27Speaker 01

  That's such a specific detail.

• 40:29Ashley Flowers?

  It is. And the weird part is, I do hear an alarm in the background of the 911 call, like a minute and a half in. Here, I want you to listen to it.

• 40:41Speaker 02

  Okay, Andy, listen to me. What is an intersecting road to Buck Trail? Uh, I'm a high, high, high school girl.

• 40:49Speaker 01

  So what was that alarm?

• 40:51Ashley Flowers?

  I don't know. It is driving me absolutely wild. I don't see any records from the alarm company in the case file, so I don't know if they ever pulled those or got to the bottom of why the alarm went off. Was it set all night? Like, I mean, now I have a million questions about the alarm.

• 41:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:06Ashley Flowers?

  I don't know. I don't think this story is true. I definitely don't think Christie was involved in anything. I just don't know why someone, Andy or otherwise, would make up that story.

• 41:20Speaker 01

  I mean, did they test the gun for DNA, like, just to be sure?

• 41:24Ashley Flowers?

  They did. And the only DNA profile that came back was on the trigger, and it belonged to Heather, which is one of the pieces of evidence that supports the theory of suicide. Gunshot residue testing, by the way, also were positive on Heather's hands.

• 41:40Speaker 01

  I mean, did they even check Andy's?

• 41:42Ashley Flowers?

  Well, they did. They swabbed him on the scene the day that they responded, and the results ended up being negative. But, and big but here, they asked Andy if he has washed his hands recently. And the investigative records say that he first says no, then he says EMTs did wash his hands for him, though.

• 42:05Speaker 01

  I'm sorry, what?

• 42:06Ashley Flowers?

  I don't know how that happened. Like, it's nuts to me. Investigative records also show that Andy changed out of his bloody shirt, and they didn't even collect it. So, even though detectives are gathering a ton of evidence to suggest that Heather was trying to escape an abusive situation, that she was just about to leave and was even going to be with someone new, They can't ignore some of this physical evidence.

• 42:34Speaker 01

  That they do collect.

• 42:36Ashley Flowers?

  Yeah, like the DNA on the trigger. So instead of closing the case, they just let it stay open. But without anyone really doing anything with it, which doesn't sit right with a lot of people who loved Heather. I mean, she actually didn't have a lot of family. Her mom died when she was 19 and she had a rocky relationship with her dad that she was working to mend. But she did have an aunt that she was close with and some really good friends who just could not look the other way when this case stalled out. I mean, they felt in their bones that Heather would never have left her daughter like that. I mean, I've seen so many pictures of Heather and her daughter together. I mean, there's this one in particular that I can like feel,

• 43:19Ashley Flowers?

  like it is so clear that she loved her. And I'm sure she loved her other kids, too. And listen, people can love their kids and struggle. People can love their kids and even take their own life. But there were too many elements of this case that bothered her family. And it's more than just Heather's circumstances with Andy. They were hearing things. They were seeing things that just weren't adding up. So they started a Justice for Heather Turner Facebook page that got some local traction. And with that came the public scrutiny of Andy. In the aftermath of Heather's death, Andy writes in his book that he and his family

• 44:01Ashley Flowers?

  were constantly dealing with harassment, both online and in person. They had to move schools, neighborhoods, uproot their life. But ever the optimist, he says that life turned around when he met his current wife, Kelly, who he had actually met in a grief counseling class.

• 44:17Speaker 01

  Does he meet all of his wives in counseling?

• 44:20Ashley Flowers?

  I don't think he was at least like the counselor this time. I'm assuming that he was there to get counseling as he dealt with Heather's death.

• 44:26Speaker 01

  So was she his counselor?

• 44:30Ashley Flowers?

  So no, according to his book, Kelly's husband had died.

• 44:35Speaker 01

  I know, I've said the name a million times. This is exactly like the Micah Miller story. Like, didn't JP's new wife also have a husband who died?

• 44:42Ashley Flowers?

  Either way, he seems happier. But I don't know if things ever really let up for Andy. If anything, they might get worse when Heather's case gets featured on a TV show and goes from local to national in 2022. That's when all the rumors and the speculation that had been swirling locally and in that Facebook group get laid bare alongside all of the evidence that Heather's friends and family were having trouble reconciling with, stuff that I haven't even told you about yet. And this TV show had a surprise source who, from the shadows, came forward to say that they saw something on Heather's body and just before her funeral

• 45:27Ashley Flowers?

  that has them very concerned that the truth is being covered up. But that is in part two. Our Crime Junkies can listen right now in the Crime Junkie Fan Club by going to crimejunkie.com, or you can come back next week for part two of Heather Turner's story. And you guys, October is Domestic Violence Awareness Month. We've spent a lot of this episode talking about domestic violence. And we are really passionate about supporting organizations that help people who are experiencing DV, especially here in Indiana, where, don't know if you know this, the federal government has slashed funding for domestic violence services. So this month, we are pledging $175,000 to nonprofits

• 46:12Ashley Flowers?

  that are doing the work, supporting survivors of intimate partner violence and prevention. And we wouldn't be able to do that without your support. So thank you, Crime Junkies. Stay safe. We love you.

• 46:26Speaker 01

  And if you're actively trying to leave an abusive situation and need immediate help, please reach out to the National Domestic Violence Hotline by texting START to 88788. A real person will be on the other end 24/7, offering crisis support. The second is women'slaw.org. They provide state-specific legal information about protection orders, custody, housing protections, and more.

• 46:50Ashley Flowers?

  Crime Junkie is an AudioChuck production.

• 46:54Ashley Flowers?

  I think Chuck would approve.

• 47:01Speaker 03

  When the nights grow longer, the shadows start to stir. And that can only mean one thing. Full Body Chills is back. This season, step inside original tales where every doorway leads somewhere darker, every stranger carries a secret, and nothing is ever quite what it seems. Each story takes you somewhere new, but be careful. You never know what might follow you home. So gather round, listen close, and stream Full Body Chills wherever you get your podcasts.