Sister Aimee's Kidnapping

In 1926, Aimee Semple McPherson vanished into the Pacific Ocean. It made national news; “Sister Aimee” was the founder of the Foursquare Church, with hundreds of thousands of members. After six weeks, Aimee returned, claiming she’d been kidnapped. But Los Angeles officials weren't so sure. Was it a miracle? Or a hoax? Keep up with Conspiracy Theories! Instagram: @⁠theconspiracypod⁠TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠⁠@conspiracy.pod⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

• 0:06Speaker 00

  In 1926, Sister Amy came back from the dead. At least, that's what it felt like to the members of the Four Square Church. They thought she drowned in the Pacific Ocean six weeks ago. There'd been an exhaustive search, even a memorial service. But here, Amy was, stepping off the train from Arizona. A jubilant throng of over 30,000 people greeted her in downtown LA. Firefighters hoisted her onto a chair and carried her through the crowd, while adoring citizens showered her with roses. The parade in her honor wound through the city. Over 100,000 people joined, including mounted officers,

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  firefighters, and thousands of church members, sporting the same white dress and blue cape Amy wore when she preached. When the parade reached Amy's temple, she found 5,000 people waiting on the street. She shouted joyously that she loved them and praised the Lord. Then she proceeded inside, where nearly 6,000 more faithful awaited her first sermon back. In it, she detailed how she'd been kidnapped, but by the grace of God, escaped. Some people called it a miracle, but others called it a publicity stunt.

• 1:33Speaker 00

  And still more, a cover story for a woman who could no longer practice what she preached. Welcome to Conspiracy Theories, a Spotify podcast. I'm Carter Roy. New episodes come out every Wednesday. We'd love to hear from you. So if you're listening on the Spotify app, swipe up and give us your thoughts, or check us out on Instagram at TheConspiracyPod. This episode contains discussions of kidnapping, drowning, and abortion. Consider this when deciding how and when you'll listen. Stay with us.

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• 3:55Speaker 00

  There's one part of this story everyone can agree on. Amy "Simple" McPherson was a prime target for kidnapping. She was rich, famous, and most importantly, people deeply cared about her.

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  In 1921, five years before her kidnapping, Amy officially founded the Four Square Church. In her sermons, Amy shared her unique take on the Bible, which she called "The Four Square Gospel." The basic concept was that Jesus has four sides: the Baptizer, the Healer, the Savior, and the future King. It was an offshoot of Pentecostalism, promoting baptism and healing through faith in Jesus Christ. Focused on this vision, Amy sermonized. She healed, she spoke in tongues, and she taught thousands of yearning believers to do the same.

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  Think of her as the Billy Graham or Joel Osteen of the 1920s. Amy literally opened the first megachurch in America, and it's still operating. As of 2025, the Four Square Church boasts over 8 million members worldwide. When Amy's megachurch was built in 1923, locals nicknamed it "The Million Dollar Temple", due to its construction cost, a value closer to $19 million today. Formerly, it's named "The Angelus Temple." If you've been to LA, it's the giant curved church building overlooking

• 5:32Speaker 00

  Echo Park Lake. The church seats roughly 5,000 people inside big stained glass windows and a 125-foot dome. Chairs face a proscenium stage, where Sister Amy would preach so-called "visual sermons" that were half evangelizing, half theater. She'd have sets built, use actors, design costumes, lights, and music, and retell Bible stories, complete with live camels. But the spectacle didn't stop there. Sister Amy also facilitated faith healings. At one ministry event in San Diego, Amy placed her hands on a woman who'd used a wheelchair

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  for most of her life. Invoking the name of Jesus Christ, she commanded the woman to walk. And the woman did. Over 30,000 people witnessed this supposed miracle.

• 6:26Speaker 00

  The wow factor of Amy's sermons grew her following. She held multiple services a day. The temple so full, the line often stretched down the block. In 1924, the year after she opened the temple, she installed a radio broadcast station and started a regular show. And she continued to travel and preach wherever she felt God called her. By 1925, Amy's message reached hundreds of thousands of people every week. The Four Square Church was a multimillion-dollar business, allowing Amy to drive a fancy car, shop at luxury stores, and keep an exotic pet spider monkey.

• 7:10Speaker 00

  All this to say, Amy and her family were ripe for kidnapping and extortion. Here's how she and her mother claimed that happened. On May 18, 1926, Amy invited her mother Minnie to come work from the beach with her. This was something Amy often did. Minnie declined, so Amy brought her secretary, Emma. Fun fact about Emma: She couldn't swim. When they got to Venice Beach, Emma didn't even put on a swimsuit. In Emma's defense, temps were high 60s, not what most people in LA would call swimming weather. Uh-uh, that's too cold. But apparently, Amy didn't mind the cold.

• 7:55Speaker 00

  Through the afternoon, she took writing breaks to go swimming. She enjoyed the ocean so much that around 3:30, she asked Emma to call the temple and inform them Amy would be late to the evening service. In 1926, making a phone call from Venice Beach required walking to a nearby drugstore, so Amy asked Emma to pick her up a snack, too. And here's where we diverge from what Emma corroborated to Amy's sole account. Emma walked off for her errand, and Amy swam out into deep water, enjoying the pull of the tides and the salt on her lips. But then, she heard people calling her name.

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  She didn't know them, but they clearly recognized her, probably church members, as she emerged from the water. A man and a woman rushed up to her. They cried that their baby was dying and begged her to come pray for the child's life. Amy felt weary, maybe even a little annoyed. Nevertheless, she knew her duty as a missionary. She ran after them to the parking lot. They pointed out a car with a motor running. Their baby was in the back. Amy peered into the backseat and then, someone shoved her down. A hand grabbed her head and forced a wet cloth over her mouth.

• 9:20Speaker 00

  As chemicals choked her, the world went dim. When Amy regained consciousness, she felt sick, perhaps from the drugs that knocked her out. Next to her, a woman held a basin. Amy leaned over and vomited. At first, she thought she'd been in an accident, but she didn't remember anything about it. She took in her surroundings: papered walls, an enameled bed, a bathroom with a tub and toilet. Nothing familiar. The woman beside her had olive skin and black hair and a bob, also unfamiliar.

• 10:03Speaker 00

  Amy managed to spit out a few words, asking the woman where she was and what had happened. Her companion didn't answer. Instead, she called to "Steve" in the other room. A man entered, presumably Steve. He was about forty, heavy-set with thick brows and a light complexion. Seeing them together brought it all flooding back. The beach, the couple, the nonexistent sick baby. She'd been kidnapped. Steve and the woman, who he called Rose, told Amy they planned to contact her mother and demand a $500,000 ransom, worth about nine million today.

• 10:49Speaker 00

  Amy insisted that ransom would never come. It'd be a misuse of church funds. Stephen Rose disagreed, but they added that if Amy was right, they'd get the money anyway by selling her to a slave trader in Mexico City. Amy resigned herself to a long wait. She spent the next few weeks in the cottage pacing and praying, while her captors kept her under constant watch. Soon Amy fell into despair, ruminating on how many people she was letting down. She desperately wanted to go home.

• 11:30Speaker 00

  She screamed for help, but no one answered. The only calming thought was that her mother Minnie could carry on the Four Square Church's mission. For years Amy's mother had served God right beside her. And a few weeks into her captivity, she got news confirming the church was still in excellent hands. The church refused to pay a ransom. Apparently, Minnie was convinced that Amy was dead. And according to Stephen Rose, nothing they could say or do would persuade her otherwise.

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  Stephen Rose tried to trick Amy into telling them things only she would know to convince Minnie she was still alive, but Amy refused. So Steve burned her hands with a cigar. Amy endured it, seeing this as her latest mission from God. A few days after the burns, Rose woke Amy in the middle of the night. Hurry and get dressed. The kidnappers blindfolded Amy, wrapped her in blankets, and forced her onto the floor of a car. Then they bound her wrists and ankles with cloth.

• 12:51Speaker 00

  And they hit the road. Amy had no idea how long they drove. By now, she'd been captive for several weeks and she'd lost her sense of time. Eventually, the car slowed to a stop and the kidnappers ordered Amy out. Keeping her blindfolded, they let her into a small wood walled space. Then, the kidnappers broke the news. Amy's mother couldn't send the ransom because she'd physically collapsed. Hearing this, Amy fell to the floor, shaking and sobbing. Her mother was ill. The church was in peril.

• 13:32Speaker 00

  And unless God intervened, Amy would be sold into slavery. When Amy pulled herself back together, she noticed it was hot, much hotter than the cottage. She muttered a complaint and heard Rose respond, "Now, dearie, if your mother behaves, you will be out of here perhaps by Friday." So her mother was still alive. The thought gave Amy hope and filled her with determination. The kidnappers couldn't get their hands on her church's money. She'd find a way out of this. A day or two later, Amy saw her chance.

• 14:15Speaker 00

  Steve left her alone with Rose much of the time, possibly because Amy was too weak to cause any trouble. On this particular day, Rose told Amy she had to go into town to take care of some business. Amy would be left alone, though still tied up. The moment Rose left, Amy's eyes searched the cabin. On the far side of the room, she spotted an empty five gallon tin can with a jagged edge. Amy rolled across the floor to the can. She wriggled her wrists against the rim, rocking back and forth. The fabric slowly tore and slipped off her wrists.

• 14:59Speaker 00

  Hands free, Amy praised God as she untied her ankles. Unsteadily, she rose to her feet and climbed out the room's window. Freedom!

• 15:11Speaker 00

  Except Amy had no idea where she was, or how long it would be before her captors returned. Putting her trust in God, she poured all her strength into her limbs and ran for her life across the desert. Dodging the cacti and dry brush, she stumbled 20 miles without scraping her legs or shoes. She wrapped her dress around her head and arms like a shawl, shielding herself from the sun to avoid burns. Darkness fell, and still Amy ran. At last, she saw a glow on the horizon: a town! Running on pure faith, she staggered up to the nearest house, yelling for help.

• 15:56Speaker 00

  A couple opened the door, gave her water, and called the police. Amy was saved. She learned it was June 23rd, 1926. She was in Mexico, in a small town called Aguaprieta, about 650 miles southeast of LA. The police took Amy to a hospital in Arizona, where she reunited with her mother and her two teenage children before her triumphant return to LA. When she recounted her ordeal to assembled churchgoers, she asked them to raise their hands if they believed her story.

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  Nearly every hand in the room shot up. Historian Matt Sutton notes that the crowd had plenty of reason to believe it. At the time, the FBI had been investigating kidnapping rings in Southern California, including one case where a wealthy victim from LA was brought down to Mexico. But while her followers believed her, the newspapers were selling a different story. It was all a hoax, a massive cover-up for what Amy was really doing.

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• 18:22Speaker 00

  From the moment Amy Semple-McPherson disappeared, questions flew. Did she really drown? Where was her body? Why was her church fundraising at a time like this? Rumors crisscrossed Los Angeles, splattering the pages of newspapers, particularly the Los Angeles Examiner. They published reports saying Amy was everywhere from Arizona to Argentina, and that she was making secret phone calls to her 13-year-old son. People suspected she'd hit her head and had amnesia, or she was secretly getting plastic surgery or having an abortion. Maybe she'd been kidnapped by a rival pastor.

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  One man even suggested she'd been eaten by a sea monster.

• 19:13Speaker 00

  Believe it or not, the articles kept the papers selling. Though some rumors were provably untrue. For example, the abortion theory. Amy couldn't have been pregnant. She'd had a hysterectomy when she was 23. Clearly, the news stories were sensationalized. Possibly just to sell papers. According to historian Matt Sutton, even the New York Times gave Amy's story intense coverage, pumping out more articles on her disappearance than the paper had on the entire Scopes monkey trial the year before. Speaking of the Scopes monkey trial, that brings us to a conspiracy theory.

• 19:55Speaker 00

  That the rumors Amy faked her kidnapping were started by one of her enemies to destroy her reputation and her church. While Amy was very popular among her base, her teachings ruffled some feathers. She'd publicly taken William Jennings Bryan's side in the Scopes monkey trial. Okay, let's do a quick history refresher. I need one. In 1925, high school teacher John Scopes was arrested and tried for teaching evolution in schools. It was against Tennessee law. The prosecution was led by William Jennings Bryan, a creationist politician.

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  Not only did Amy support Jennings Bryan, she fought against teaching evolution in California schools. She also wanted to put a Bible in every classroom, campaigning for less separation between church and state. Around the time Amy returned, journalist H.L. Mankin dug into the case and concluded that some local LA government officials feared Amy's beliefs and power. Regardless of where she'd actually been during those six weeks, the officials were attempting a smear campaign. And they weren't going to stop with newspapers. They were putting pressure on the district attorney.

• 21:22Speaker 00

  Though it wasn't just people who disagreed with her beliefs accusing her of hoaxing. As soon as Amy returned, her biggest rival, evangelist Fighting Bob Schuler, started calling for a full investigation into the kidnapping. Not to find the abductors, but to incriminate Amy herself. Fighting Bob was one of the premier fundamentalist voices in LA. For years, he'd told everyone who'd listened that the woman evangelist gained followers by lying, cheating, and seducing them. Faking her own kidnapping was just the latest stunt.

• 22:05Speaker 00

  This was a serious allegation. It meant Amy had wasted police resources and defrauded her followers, but it gets worse. Two people died while searching the ocean for Amy. One was the victim of a scuba diving accident, and the other was an ardent follower who wanted to die as Amy had. If Amy was faking her own kidnapping, she could be liable for manslaughter. That would end her preaching career. Exactly what her detractors and rivals wanted.

• 22:44Speaker 00

  But they'd have to face up against an entire church supporting Amy and some evidence beyond her word. While Amy was missing, her mother, Minnie, received a letter that allegedly contained a lock of Amy's hair, as proof her kidnappers had her. Minnie also got a ransom note in the mail, which lined up with Amy's story. And while Amy was missing, a local attorney reported that two unnamed men approached him to act as a go-between for a ransom payout. Unfortunately, the attorney was unable to provide a description of these mysterious men because he was blind.

• 23:29Speaker 00

  Convenient. With evidence building on both sides and the national media pointing a spotlight on Los Angeles, the authorities needed to solve the case. Either this woman had been kidnapped, or she'd committed fraud. Investigators wasted no time crashing Amy's family reunion in her Arizona hospital room on June 24th, the day after she reappeared. They introduced themselves as Captain Klein and Joseph Ryan. They were from the LAPD and the District Attorney's Office. Amy had already seen the newspaper's speculation, so she understood why they'd come.

• 24:11Speaker 00

  With her mother and children looking on, Amy detailed her kidnapping. Captain Klein and ADA Ryan interjected with questions. What did Steve and Rose look like? What anesthetic did they use to knock her out? How did she escape the shack? Amy responded as if she were telling them about a party. She aimed to charm the men by being pleasant, but her attitude may have piqued their suspicion. ADA Ryan pointed out that several of Amy's details aligned almost perfectly with the ransom letters Minnie had shown them while Amy was missing.

• 24:53Speaker 00

  For example, Amy said, "Two people pretending to have a sick baby lured her away from the beach." The notes from the alleged kidnappers said the same thing. It also said, "They'd drugged Amy and shoved her into a car." In Ryan's experience, criminals didn't often recount the details of their felonies in writing. It was also strange how closely their descriptions matched hers, sometimes down to the word, almost as if Amy had seen the ransom notes before they were mailed.

• 25:32Speaker 00

  But Amy insisted she knew nothing about the letters and was eager to help catch her kidnappers. When she was back in LA, Amy rode with Captain Klein and ADA Ryan to Venice Beach to show them step by step how she'd been abducted. Then Captain Klein and ADA Ryan accompanied Amy to Mexico to find the alleged cabin.

• 25:58Speaker 00

  No cabin was found. What she did find during these travels was crowds of journalists and admirers hoping to hear her story in person. Amy obliged, over and over. The thirst was insatiable. Amy's story continued selling papers. Though those papers still accused her of lying, with increasingly better evidence. An authority from the US Post Office told The New York Times that one of the ransom notes had been tampered with. Someone changed the mail date to a date after Amy's memorial service, which just happened

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  to bring in thousands of dollars in church donations. Basically, Amy's church was accused of defrauding her own followers. And it only added fuel to the fire when Captain Klein and ADA Ryan's investigation took a turn and convened a grand jury. For those of us who don't know, a grand jury is a group of people who decide if there's enough evidence to bring a criminal matter to trial. In Amy's case, the jury was composed of seventeen men and two women. Their stated goal was to investigate the kidnapping and determine whether her kidnappers should be indicted.

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  But Amy's mother, Minnie, believed the real goal was to investigate her and her daughter for possible fraud. She counseled Amy to avoid the grand jury, but Amy volunteered to testify. The grand jury began on July 8, 1926. Amy wore the white gown and blue cape she often preached in. Walking from her car into the grand jury, Amy heard hundreds of church members crying "Hallelujah." Their presence raised her spirits, and so did the seven followers dressed exactly like her. The guard, as she called them, formed a V-shaped phalanx behind her as Amy made her way into the building.

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  Power Player. Inside, throngs of people clamored in the halls, vying for a glimpse of the celebrity preacher. Amy passed among them like Jesus on Palm Sunday, her guard parading faithfully behind her. And when they reached the grand jury room, Amy dismissed her guard, commenting loudly that she was “a lamb being led to the slaughter.” She swore on the Bible to tell the truth, and the cross-examination flew in. And for example, a photo taken while Amy was in the Douglas Hospital showed her wearing a wristwatch. If you’re watching the video, that photo’s on screen.

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  The district attorney questioned where the timepiece came from. Had Amy been wearing it while she was swimming at Venice Beach? Or had the kidnappers given it to her? And why did it look identical to one given to her by her mother? Similarly, the DA asked about Amy’s clothing. She’d said she was “wearing a bathing suit” when abducted, yet when she turned up in agua prieta, she had on a nice, new-looking dress and corset. Then there was the nurse’s testimony. She examined Amy in the hospital right after her escape, and found no signs of sunburn

• 29:30Speaker 00

  and no signs of dehydration or starvation, despite Amy’s claim she walked 20 miles through Mexico with no food or water. If you’ve never been to the southwest or into the desert, you can’t walk 20 feet without getting scratched or torn. You certainly can’t spend an afternoon out there without getting sunburned and thirsty. So, there were definitely some questions. And in response to these questions, Amy mostly just shrugged. Then, after about two weeks of testimony, Amy took the stand to tell her story, start to finish. But she didn’t start with the day on the beach. She told her whole biography.

• 30:15Speaker 00

  The Cliff’s Notes: Amy was born poor, widowed young and directionless by age 19. But she heard God’s call, and together with her mother, spent years evangelizing and fundraising to establish her church, which now had several hundred thousand believers.

• 30:35Speaker 00

  Why would she choose to leave when her work was finally coming to fruition? No sane person would walk away from that. Therefore, her kidnapping story must be true. Yeah, she tried to win them over with a sob story. And then to top it off, for several days of the grand jury, Amy insisted that she be carried in and out of the room because she was too exhausted to walk. Though she made it through the desert just fine. And if it weren't theatrical enough, let's meet the surprise witness, a grocery delivery boy named Ralph Swanson. He testified that while Amy was missing, he saw her in a seaside cottage in Carmel by

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  the Sea, a ritzy California vacation town. He delivered her groceries. And according to other witnesses, Amy wasn't alone. She was with her former employee, Kenneth Ormiston, a married man. Now, Amy had made her name preaching conservative Christian values, including no sex outside of marriage. So if this was true, not only did she lie to her entire congregation, she sinned against the church she started. And this wasn't the first time Amy and Kenneth were linked.

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  The year before, Amy had hired Kenneth to run the radio station and record her sermons. They worked closely together and had a remarkably good rapport. Amy insisted that they were just colleagues, but to many, like Kenneth's wife, their friendship seemed dangerously inappropriate, especially when they accidentally broadcasted their private conversations over the church intercom. Rumors flew around the church and Kenneth found another job. Note to self, always see if the mic is on. After this shocking testimony, ADA Joe Ryan went up to Carmel by the Sea to investigate

• 32:45Speaker 00

  and found even more witnesses who'd seen Amy and Kenneth entering town in disguises, including sunglasses and a bucket hat.

• 32:57Speaker 00

  And they'd left behind damning evidence, a handwritten grocery list, which Ryan compared to a sample of Amy's writing. To him, it looked like a perfect match. Thrilled with the find, Ryan wired his boss, District Attorney Kies, and said he had proof Amy ran away with the sound engineer. Within 24 hours, papers across the country blazed with the news. The LA Examiner, owned by media mogul William Randolph Hearst, shouted the headline, "New sensation in Amy inquiry." Amy and Minnie were united in their response.

• 33:38Speaker 00

  Amy was not now, nor had she ever been, involved with Kenneth Ormiston. This could have been verified by Ormiston himself, but unfortunately for Amy, he was in the wind. Apparently, he'd been spotted all over the country, but no one could pin him down. But it didn't take long for another surprise witness to come forward. On July 31st, a woman in her 30s who greatly resembled Amy presented herself at the Angelus Temple. If you're watching the video, you'll see them side by side on screen. If you're not, they, yeah, they look alike. She said her name was Lorraine Wiseman Seeloff and declared that Kenneth's lover wasn't Amy.

• 34:23Speaker 00

  It was just someone who looked like her, Lorraine's twin sister. Lorraine told Amy's attorney and a slew of reporters who just happened to be present that she'd tried to present this evidence to the DA, but he had ignored her. So she had no choice but to come to the temple directly. She believed Amy had been kidnapped and wanted to help clear her name. To that end, she produced an affidavit from her sister confessing to the affair. Meanwhile, Amy and Minnie hired an attorney named R.A. McKinley to establish contact with Amy's kidnappers.

• 35:08Speaker 00

  The trouble was McKinley himself didn't believe these kidnappers existed.

• 35:14Speaker 00

  But he did believe he could make a quick buck, so he hired a local dock worker to pose for photos and sent them to Amy. Apparently, Amy identified the man as her abductor. According to psychologists David A. Alexander and Susan Klein, a common psychological effect of being a hostage is impaired memory. If Amy really was kidnapped, it's possible that she might have simply misremembered what her abductors looked like. Or, well, she was lying. Either way, McKinley was hired for a second task:

• 35:56Speaker 00

  find the elusive shack Amy had been held in. Unfortunately, before he could cross the border, McKinley died in a car accident. Then Lorraine, the woman with the convenient sister, was arrested for writing bad checks. Lorraine immediately contacted Amy and Minnie, asking for bail. The mother and daughter decided not to respond. Lorraine was furious. On September 12th, she retracted the story about her twin sister being Kenneth's lover. She told reporters that Amy and Minnie had bribed her to lie to the press.

• 36:37Speaker 00

  This meant Amy could have been the woman seen with Kenneth Ormiston in Carmel by the Sea after all. Lorraine was brought in to testify, swearing she'd been bribed, until her lawyer and Amy's lawyer got into a fistfight. As if this could be more of a circus. Okay. Up to now, the rumors about Amy had been little more than reputation-damaging gossip. She continued her ministry, including radio shows where she presented her version of each day's proceedings. But with Lorraine's confession, it looked like Amy and Minnie were criminals. On Thursday, September 16th, 1926,

• 37:22Speaker 00

  District Attorney Cais issued warrants for Amy's and Minnie's arrest, charging them with perjury and corruption of public morals. It seemed like Sister Amy was going to jail. But allegedly, she'd yet to play her ace.

• 37:42Speaker 00

  According to another conspiracy theory, Amy turned to blackmail.

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• 38:51Speaker 00

  Fall 1926 was the worst it had ever looked for Sister Amy. During a grand jury trial to investigate her alleged kidnapping, she and her mother were charged with multiple crimes, all allegedly to cover up that the kidnapping was a hoax. And if you thought the evidence couldn't get more embarrassing, it did. When Amy's alleged lover, Kenneth Ormiston, went on the run, he left behind a trunk of women's clothing, all in Amy's size. The DA's office confiscated it. They planned to go through the trunk in front of the grand jury.

• 39:32Speaker 00

  They'd get a good view of the contents, including the trunk's owner's love letters and their lingerie. Yeah, they'd literally reached the point of going through her underwear, or her alleged underwear. But in the DA's defense, the case wasn't settled. The grand jury was still out, and some of Amy's diehard followers still believed her. They sent death threats to the police captain and ADA, and two people who publicly accused Amy of lying suffered gunshot wounds from anonymous shooters. Then, after all this, Kenneth Ormiston finally

• 40:13Speaker 00

  showed his face in LA. He testified that he had stayed in the cottage at Carmel by the Sea, but not with Amy. He was cheating on his wife with a different woman, a nurse from Seattle that no one ever found. And it was her underwear in the confiscated trunk. So finally, Amy had some backup for her story. And then she got some even more serious backup. According to historian Matt Sutton, one of Amy's supporters rose well above the rest, Ralph Jordan. Based on old letters Sutton found in FBI files, Jordan brought Amy news

• 40:58Speaker 00

  of another conspiracy theory, one they could use for blackmail. You see, Ralph Jordan was a reporter from The Examiner, one of the very papers that had been, in Amy's eyes, defaming her. But Jordan had either decided Amy was telling the truth, or had his eye on a job with a four-square church. He certainly didn't like his boss's boss's boss, William Randolph Hearst.

• 41:28Speaker 00

  Hearst owned not only The Examiner, but dozens of other media outlets. He was extremely wealthy and influential with very powerful friends. Apparently, Jordan told Amy this conspiracy theory. About two years before, in 1924, Hearst threw a yacht party for Hollywood power players, including actor Charlie Chaplin and producer Thomas Ince. Hearst also invited his rumored mistress, actress Marion Davies. With each uncorked bottle of champagne, Hearst grew more aggravated.

• 42:09Speaker 00

  He was convinced Charlie Chaplin was flirting with Marion and crossing the line. In a drunken rage, Hearst pulled a gun and shot at Chaplin, but he missed, allegedly hitting movie producer Thomas Ince instead. Ince died a few days later, but get this, the doctors claimed Ince died of heart failure. So did the Hearst newspapers. The papers conveniently neglected to cover Ince's activities in his final days, including the yacht party. As far as the public knew, nothing went wrong on the yacht.

• 42:53Speaker 00

  But Jordan, and many people since, believe Hearst used his money and influence to cover up the accidental killing. According to Sutton, Amy took this rumor and ran with it. In December 1926, she sent a message to Hearst informing him that she knew about both the shooting and his affair. The rumor could destroy his empire. She was willing to protect Hearst's reputation if, and only if, he would help defend hers. Remember, she had a radio show with hundreds of thousands of listeners.

• 43:33Speaker 00

  It wouldn't be hard for Amy to defame Hearst even more than his papers had defamed her. Now, it's unclear if this was Amy trying to cover up her hoax, or trying to put an end to the rumors started in the examiner. But allegedly, she scared Hearst into pulling some strings to get her case dropped. But that's just a theory, and here's another theory about what Amy did to try to clear her name. Move from blackmail to bribing officials. The DA on her case, Asa Kais, was known to take bribes. Years later, he was found guilty in his own grand jury.

• 44:18Speaker 00

  Kais was also investigated for potential bribes in Amy's case, and there wasn't enough evidence. So, what have we got out here? We have kidnapping, sudden deaths, secret twins, bribe-happy DA, and possible blackmail surrounding a totally unrelated murder mystery. All in a grand jury that dragged on from July until after Christmas. If I were on this jury, I wouldn't know what to think. But in the end, I wouldn't have to. The jury never got to decide, because on December 29th,

• 44:57Speaker 00

  DA Kais announced that his star witness, Lorraine Wiseman Seelof, was actually unreliable. Attorneys had learned she had a history of pathological lying. As a result, he could no longer consider either version of her testimony. He had to reevaluate the case. It's not clear where this sudden info came from. Maybe it was Hearst pulling strings. Maybe Amy offering bribes.

• 45:31Speaker 00

  Maybe Lorraine really was a pathological liar. Both the stories she told were pretty extreme. But in the end, on January 10th, DA Kais officially dropped the charges against Amy and Minnie. And then at some point after, evidence mysteriously disappeared, including the alleged grocery lists in Amy's handwriting found in Carmel by the Sea and a ransom note. And the LA Times lost all their files on Amy in a sudden fire. Which all suggests that Amy might have faked her own kidnapping to further her career.

• 46:16Speaker 00

  Because afterward, she only got more famous. After celebrating with her followers in Los Angeles, Amy embarked on a months-long nationwide quote-unquote vindication tour. And of all people, she brought Ralph Jordan, the newspaper man who had given her the scoop on William Randolph Hearst. He was her new publicity manager. And that might be the best evidence we have for the blackmail theory. Now, not everyone was happy about the tour. Amy's mother urged her to stay home, focus on the church, and keep a lower profile.

• 47:01Speaker 00

  But Amy clearly didn't want a lower profile. She started preaching in stylish clothes instead of her long, white robes. She bobbed her hair and started wearing makeup, two things she'd preached against in the past. She toured nightclubs, sometimes staying out until 3:00 in the morning. That's a preacher I could get behind. Many liked this new side of the old-time evangelist, especially young, progressive women. Flappers idolized her. Hollywood came calling. Attracted by her fame and her evolving look, movie studios competed to sign her on a long-term contract. Amy signed on for at least one film.

• 47:47Speaker 00

  Though, as many movies do, it fell apart in pre-production. She also performed on Broadway and built a mansion overlooking Lake Elsinore. Its design was inspired by her travels to the Holy Land. All the while, her teachings spread, more four-square churches opened. Everything was coming up Amy, except her relationship with her mother. While Amy jetted off on her world tour, Minnie stayed in LA, running the business. By now, this included not only the temple, but also the radio station, the Bible school,

• 48:28Speaker 00

  the seminary, the charities, and the various church branches, which by now numbered in the hundreds. Minnie kept busy, all while placating disgruntled followers. No one had joined this church to see Minnie, or any of the other preachers who stepped in. They wanted Amy. By the time Amy came home, Minnie was steaming. And after Minnie publicly voted no confidence in Amy's leadership, Amy requested her resignation. She offered her mother a $200,000 settlement. So, Minnie hit the road. She became a traveling evangelist in her own right.

• 49:13Speaker 00

  And although she admitted that her daughter had been far too close to Kenneth Ormiston, she continued to say Amy had been held hostage until her dying day. Now, was the 200 grand hush money? Or is it possible Amy really was kidnapped? No one was ever charged with her kidnapping, but criminals get away all the time. Amy herself maintained her story, living out her life as a world-famous evangelist. And during the Great Depression, her church ran the largest soup kitchen in LA, and it continues to help people as of 2025.

• 49:57Speaker 00

  Her temple still operates in Los Angeles.

• 50:03Speaker 00

  That brings us to the one place we could look for answers, but we can't access them. To this day, the Foursquare Church refuses to share the only complete copy of Amy's grand jury documents in existence. The files that might clue us in on the truth. Thank you for listening to Conspiracy Theories. We're here with a new episode every Wednesday. Be sure to check us out on Instagram @TheConspiracyPod. If you're watching on Spotify, swipe up and give us your thoughts. For more information on Sister Amy, amongst the many sources we used, we found the book

• 50:48Speaker 00

  Amy Semple-McPherson and the Resurrection of Christian America by Matthew Avery Sutton and contemporary reporting by The New York Times, extremely helpful to our research. Until next time, remember, the truth isn't always the best story, and the official story isn't always the truth. This episode was written by Megan Dane and Maggie Admire, fact-checked by Sophie Kemp, and engineered, video edited, and sound designed by Alex Button. I'm your host, Carter Roy.

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