Did a Psych Experiment Turn Ted Kaczynski into the Unabomber?

On April 3, 1996, Theodore “Ted” Kaczynski – better known as the Unabomber – was arrested, ending a 17-year-long bombing spree that left 3 dead and 23 injured. He promised to end his campaign of terror only after outlets published his 35,000-word manifesto; in his view, technology is an uncontrollable and dangerous system that could only be stopped by revolutionary means. But where did his ideology come from? Some suggest he was pushed to the brink during a three-year human psych experiment he took part in while a young student at Harvard University, overseen by a popular, prominent – and sometimes controversial – father of personality testing, Henry A. Murray. Help us reach 10k followers on Instagram! @⁠theconspiracypod⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

• 0:06Speaker 00

  It's March 1960. A 17-year-old Harvard student is ushered into a room where he's hooked up to electrodes that will measure his heart rate. A blinding light obscures his view of a one-way mirror. On the other side, a team of researchers watches him, studies him, films him with a camera. They refer to the boy only by a code name: Lawful. Despite the eerie surroundings, Lawful might feel like he's in control. He's been prepped for this moment. He's been told what to expect, and he's done his homework. He thinks he's simply going to have a healthy debate with one of his peers.

• 0:49Speaker 00

  They'll be going head-to-head about their personal philosophies, something Lawful enjoys doing anyway. Then, when today's experiment is over, he'll walk away with a few bucks in his hand. That's why he's doing this paid research project. It's easy money. Only, he's about to find out that he's been lied to. In reality, the researchers are throwing him into a lion's den unprepared. He's not talking to another young peer. He's talking to a plant, an accomplice, a highly skilled professional, whose job is to rip this teenager to shreds and tear down his sense of self.

• 1:30Speaker 00

  Also, the researchers can watch how Lawful responds to stress. They want to see what happens when he's forced to defend his deepest beliefs. We don't know exactly what happens to Lawful that day. His files detailing the unpleasant experience are sealed indefinitely. They may never see the light of day, unless Harvard changes its mind, which might never happen. In hindsight, the experiment from 1960 was unethical. The students weren't informed of what they were getting into, and it doesn't look great that the whole thing was run by Henry Murray, the father of personality testing, a former

• 2:15Speaker 00

  employee of the OSS, and a fanatic on the subject of brainwashing. But even more shocking than who was running the study is the identity of one of its participants: Lawful. That's the code name handpicked by Dr. Murray for a boy named Ted Kaczynski. A few years later, he'll be better known as the Unabomber. Welcome to Conspiracy Theories Spotify Podcast. I'm Carter Roy. New episodes come out every Wednesday. We would love to hear from you.

• 2:57Speaker 00

  So if you're listening on the Spotify app, swipe up and give us your thoughts, or check us out on Instagram at the conspiracy pod. This episode includes discussions of violence and death. Consider this when deciding how and when you'll listen. Stay with us. This episode is brought to you by 7Up. Ever notice lemon is everywhere? Lemon recipes, lemon album names, lemon yellow fashion, and when it comes to lemon lime sodas? Why is lemon always first? There's a reason. A shadowy organization called The Lemonati has been keeping Big Lemon on top of the soda world for decades.

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• 5:11Speaker 00

  In the summer of 1995, Theodore "Ted" Kaczynski is still at large. He's still free to roam his remote property in Lincoln, Montana, free to spend his days building bombs in his 140-square-foot cabin. If he wants to, he can write at length in his journal, where he chronicles everything from past jobs to dinner menus to the deadly experiments he sends to his victims in the mail. For just a few more months, Ted remains the only person who knows that he is the Unabomber, a domestic terrorist who has eluded law enforcement for 17 years, who is responsible for 16 bombs,

• 5:53Speaker 00

  one major bomb threat, 23 injuries, and three deaths. Not to mention the trauma he's inflicted on witnesses, investigators, his victims' loved ones, as well as most of the nation who has no idea where the serial bomber may strike next. Ted has no intention of coming forward, but he does think it's time to make something perfectly clear. He wants everybody to know why he did what he did, as if that will justify the fear and the bloodshed. That June, he sends his manifesto to both The New York Times and The Washington Post.

• 6:33Speaker 00

  In an anonymous letter, he lays out his demand: "If they don't publish all 35,000 words within 90 days, he will kill again." Behind closed doors, the papers debate over what to do. Should they publish the manifesto and capitulate to a terrorist? What if, by doing so, they unwittingly inspire copycats? On the other hand, this could be the FBI's best shot at catching him, which would be a huge deal. Since 1979, the task force has been tracking the Unabomber case, a reference to his university and airline bomb targets.

• 7:14Speaker 00

  Over time, his devices grew more sophisticated, and he always covers his tracks, sometimes by planting red herrings to distract the FBI. In the eyes of the Bureau, any help cracking the case would be a good thing. After all, this guy has sent homemade bombs through the mail to college campuses: Northwestern, Vanderbilt, UC Berkeley, University of Utah, University of Michigan, places packed with students working toward a brighter future. Of all places, he targeted computer science schools, engineering departments. At times, his MO felt completely random.

• 7:56Speaker 00

  He seemed to have it out for the airlines as well, but it was hard to say exactly who he was going after or why. Back in 1979, he sent a mail bomb destined for the cargo hold of a commercial plane. It was rigged to detonate only after reaching a certain altitude. He had designed a mass casualty event. While that day, tragedy was narrowly avoided, the bomb was kind of a dud, and the plane was able to land safely. But investigators counted themselves lucky. In some cases, he'd sent explosives right to the homes of his victims.

• 8:36Speaker 00

  In 1980, United Airlines Chief Percy Woods received a package containing what appeared to be a book, only there were no pages inside. The Unabomber had hollowed it out and hidden a bomb which went off, leaving Woods badly injured. But again, investigators couldn't find a connection between Woods and any persons of interest, or between Woods and previous victims. Sometimes, the Unabomber left devices in parking lots for practically anybody to happen upon. In 1987, a Salt Lake City computer store manager named Gary Wright picked up what looked like an ordinary piece of wood, just a piece of wood on the asphalt.

• 9:20Speaker 00

  A split second later, it detonated in his hand, sending more than 200 projectiles into his body. Thankfully, Gary survived, but other victims did not. In 1985, at another computer store, owner Hugh Scrutton was stepping out the back door. Seconds later, a blast went off that sent him flying 10 feet through the air. He later died of his injuries. In 1994, another fatality. Advertising executive Thomas Moser was sorting through the mail in his New Jersey kitchen. One of the Unabomber's explosives had just been delivered.

• 9:59Speaker 00

  Just as Thomas's wife left the room, the bomb exploded, killing Thomas instantly. A few months later, the newly sworn-in president of the California Forestry Association becomes the third death attributed to the Unabomber. So, for the FBI, The New York Times, and The Washington Post, the answer seems clear. They agree to publish the manifesto. It's not an easy decision to make, but they think, maybe it will save one life, perhaps even more. If the right person reads this manifesto and they recognize the writing, that could help take down the Unabomber once and for all.

• 10:42Speaker 00

  In September 1995, The Washington Post releases a special section dedicated to "The Manifesto." The New York Times helps with the funding. The world still doesn't know it was written by Ted Kaczynski, but now, well, they know what he's thinking: the reason, he says, he's been terrorizing the country for nearly two decades: "Industrial Society and Its Future." The manifesto begins with the line, "The industrial revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race." Ted rails against what he refers to as "the industrial technological system."

• 11:24Speaker 00

  He blames it for all of society's ills: psychological suffering, social disruption. He says humans have been reduced to, quote, "cogs in the social machine." In short, he does not believe that the system can be fixed, it can only be broken. And that, he claims, can only happen through a revolution. It goes on, and on and on. Thirty-five thousand words, by the way, is a long manifesto. The great Gatsby comes in at around forty-seven thousand words. Now, the papers aren't expecting everybody to read the whole thing. In fact, they probably hope nobody does.

• 12:06Speaker 00

  They don't want to incite further violence, they're just holding up their end of the bargain. But one woman does look through it. Her name is Linda. She's never met Ted Kaczynski, although she's heard plenty about him. Because Linda is married to David Kaczynski, Ted's little brother. Linda vaguely knows about Ted's ideology. She knows he's highly educated and uses five-dollar words, kinda like the writer of "The Manifesto." But she also knows her husband David grew up idolizing Ted. One day, she gets up the courage to ask David, "Do you think it's possible your brother could be the Unabomber?"

• 12:51Speaker 00

  Now, David doesn't want to believe what Linda's suggesting to him, but the more he thinks about it, the harder it is to shrug off the thought. Whoever wrote this manifesto uses unique phrases like "cool-headed logicians." David has heard his brother say those exact words before. The Unabomber clearly has a strong vocabulary, just like Ted. He is, after all, a Harvard man. But even Ivy Leaguers mix up their figures of speech every now and then. David knows Ted often says, "Eat their cake and have it too," confusing the famous phrase, "Have their cake and eat it too." And so does the Unabomber.

• 13:35Speaker 00

  The parallels keep piling up until David can no longer ignore them. And that's how the case begins to close in around Ted Kaczynski. The following year, on April 3rd, 1996, federal agents corner him in his cabin. Ted is taken into custody. His belongings are bagged as evidence, including materials for building bombs, one completed bomb waiting and ready to be mailed. They find what appears to be an early draft of the manifesto ding, and journal entries written in code describing his crimes. Once the code is broken, it reads like a confession, tying Ted to nearly every crime he's been accused of.

• 14:20Speaker 00

  The break in the case is front-page news, and now the world knows the Unabomber's real identity. But that only raises more questions. Was he an antisocial hermit who lost his grip on reality? A product of the turbulent 1960s? Or was he a brilliant but troubled mind? Ted had once been a dedicated and promising student. He seemingly came from a stable home. He went to Harvard on a scholarship at 16. He got his PhD in mathematics and taught at UC Berkeley. On paper, he'd been a valuable member of society, right up until the point he decided

• 15:04Speaker 00

  to turn his back on the world. How do we make sense of his violence? Well, according to his brother David, there is no singular answer. It took a perfect storm, in his words, "to create the Unabomber." But one conspiracy theory suggests there is a turning point, a specific time and place in the life of Ted Kaczynski that sent him down the path of becoming a terrorist, a serial killer, the Unabomber. It happened in 1960 at a place called The Annex on the campus of Harvard University,

• 15:45Speaker 00

  where a teenage Ted walked into a room one day and, allegedly, walked out, changed, forever.

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• 16:56Speaker 00

  When Ted Kaczynski, the Unabomber, is apprehended from his cabin in 1996, the US breathes a collective sigh of relief. His 17-year nationwide terror campaign against people and places that often seem random is finally over. As information comes out about Ted's history, an author and philosophy professor takes notice. His name is Alston Chase. Now, the way he tells it, Alston has been working on an academic book that he just can't seem to get off the ground. For years, he's wanted to write about how the 1960s shaped life on college campuses, only he's never found an angle that intrigued him, until Ted Kaczynski comes along, and

• 17:41Speaker 00

  Alston is drawn to his story. Not because he's a serial killer, he never set out to write a true crime book. No, what piques his interest is that he and Ted share a lot in common. They'd both gone to Harvard. Alston graduated a mere five years before Ted did, they just barely missed being on campus at the same time. They'd taken the same courses, had the same professors, completed the same assignments. Even after graduation, their lives continued on the same trajectory. They both obtained their doctorates, they both got jobs as assistant professors. Alston even lived in a cabin in Montana, just like Ted.

• 18:26Speaker 00

  And also just like Ted, Alston did it because he wanted to leave civilization behind for a while. Well, after that, their lives diverged pretty sharply, of course. And the more Alston reflects on these bizarre coincidences, the more he wonders, could his book idea, the one about the 1960s and college campuses, apply to Ted's story? I mean, there have already been think pieces suggesting Ted's radical thinking could have been provoked while he was at UC Berkeley, which was famously the home base for West Coast activists. Could that be where Ted transformed into the Unabomber?

• 19:08Speaker 00

  Alston thinks the theory has legs, so he reaches out to the best source he can think of. He writes Ted Kaczynski a letter. In 1998, Ted is sitting behind bars, where he'll stay for the rest of his life. Earlier that year, he pleaded guilty to 13 charges. With all that time on his hands, the Unabomber is an eager pen pal, which is maybe not so surprising, given what we know about his journal and his manifesto. From his cell, Ted writes Alston page after page. Sometimes, he sends letters faster than Alston can reply. Since they both went to Harvard, naturally, they talk about their time there.

• 19:51Speaker 00

  And pretty soon, Alston comes to a realization: his premise is entirely wrong. The Unabomber wasn't created during his time at Berkeley. Alston had been off an entire decade and looking at the wrong coast. The Unabomber says Alston could have been born while Ted Kaczynski was attending Harvard.

• 20:18Speaker 00

  It's 1958 when Ted sets out for Cambridge, Massachusetts. He moves halfway across the country on his own from the suburbs of Chicago. It's a big change for any kid, but Ted was only 16 years old as an incoming freshman. In middle school, he'd skipped a grade after testing at a genius IQ level. Then he completed high school a year early, so he graduated two years ahead. None of that had helped Ted fit in with his peers. In fact, he would later call this time in his life "a disaster." When he gets to Harvard, Ted is housed in a special dormitory. It's actually a converted three-story Victorian home.

• 21:00Speaker 00

  At this time, it's where Harvard places all of their youngest and brightest students. So Ted's surrounded by other kids like him, kids who skipped grades and went to college early, which might think is a good thing. All of the kids get their own rooms, meaning no roommates. Would have been a good thing for my roommates. Sorry, Julio and Greg. Luckily, still friends. Getting your own room is great for privacy, and Ted seems content. He relishes being able to throw himself at his work. Alston writes that in his early days at Harvard, Ted's not quite the antisocial loner the media makes him out to be years later. He goes out for sports and makes a few buddies.

• 21:43Speaker 00

  But overall, the setup at his dormitory keeps him sequestered most of the time. Ted is a kid who likes to study nonstop, and now he's surrounded by other kids who study nonstop. And that fact stands out to Alston when he's doing his research. Alston also happens to have insight on what Ted must have been learning in his GE classes, specifically when it comes to his reading assignments, because Alston took those classes too. And if they were reading all the same authors, then Ted would have probably been studying Dostoevsky, Camus, and Karl Marx, to name a few, authors who, as Alston puts it, "wrote

• 22:23Speaker 00

  about society losing its values, sometimes at the hands of science," perhaps sowing the seeds of Ted's ideology. Alston vividly recalls learning about Norbert Wiener, the father of cybernetics. His ideas laid some of the groundwork for AI. But he also warned about how we would someday use it. He cautioned that if we aren't careful, we will render ourselves obsolete. Wiener famously said, "The machine's danger to society is not from the machine itself, but from what man makes of it." A quick side note: Alston is assuming here that Ted Kaczynski had the same coursework

• 23:07Speaker 00

  he did five years earlier. We don't know for sure what he read, but it does seem possible that Ted was coming across ideas at this early age that would later shape the Unabomber's ideology. On the other hand, how many thousands of Harvard freshmen followed the same syllabus and did not become a dangerous serial bomber? Well, there is one other specific part of Ted's college days that interests Alston Chase, something that does set Ted's time apart from most of his peers. Going into sophomore year, Ted is mostly enjoying his college experience.

• 23:50Speaker 00

  Then, in the fall of 1959, he gets an invitation. It reads, "Would you be willing to contribute to the solution of certain psychological problems by serving as a subject in a series of experiments or taking a number of tests?" It's an opportunity to take part in a paid research project, one that's supposedly assessing personality development among gifted college men. The study is open to students enrolled in a psychology course that Ted happens to be taking. It's to be run on campus through the school's Department of Social Relations. And they're only asking for about two hours of his time per week, mostly in the form

• 24:35Speaker 00

  of tests. Sounds like an easy way to make money, right? Ted signs up, and so do about 70 other students, and they're all vying for just 22 spots. But for whatever reason, Ted is chosen. At the time, it probably feels like winning the lottery. Later, though, during the Unabomber trial, he tells one of his attorneys that he was pressured into taking part in the study against his better judgment, because in 1959, there is a lot the researchers haven't told their subjects yet, like the fact that this study is meant to last three years, or that the students will be secretly divided into groups,

• 25:18Speaker 00

  one for average students, another for popular, well-adjusted students, and one for extremely antisocial students. We don't know for sure which group Ted belonged to, although I have my suspicions. Oh, and there's one more important detail Ted hasn't been told yet about the experiment: the name of the man who's behind it, who designed the whole concept, whose team of psychologists will report to him: Dr. Henry A. Murray. Dr. Murray has a stellar reputation at this time. Like both Ted and Alston, he attended Harvard, class of 1915.

• 26:02Speaker 00

  He returned to Cambridge years later to run the university's psychological clinic. During the 1930s, he published a book, "Explorations in Personality," which is considered by some to be a classic. And he's also the co-author of the Thematic Aperception Test, better known as the TAT. Developed at Harvard alongside his colleague/lover, Christiana Morgan, the TAT is a personality assessment. You're probably familiar with the Rorschach inkblot test, where a doctor holds up an ambiguous picture and says, "What do you see?" Well, the TAT is kind of like that, except in Murray's test, the pictures aren't of

• 26:47Speaker 00

  amorphous inkblots. They show people in the middle of doing something. What that something is, well, that's up to the subject to interpret. They're encouraged to make up a story about what's going on in the photo, what the person in the image is thinking and feeling. And that story, Murray says, reveals the personality within. After the TAT was a hit, Murray was hired by the government during World War II. He came on as a captain for the OSS, the Office of Strategic Services, the predecessor to the CIA. It was wartime. The country needed agents and spies.

• 27:32Speaker 00

  So Murray was tapped to set up psychological assessments for incoming recruits. How does this candidate stand up to pressure? How will that trainee react if they're caught by the enemy? What will they say under interrogation? Murray's tests are meant to find out. Sometimes, he'd put trainees through simulated interrogations. He'd bring them down to a stark basement with a cold metal chair, a harsh light beaming in their faces, and he'd test how they withstood intense questioning. And the whole time, he's examining the recruits, he's also working the other side.

• 28:12Speaker 00

  Murray's involved in devising the interrogation techniques, so before any one of these experiments took place, he had coached the interrogator to put the OSS hopefuls through the wringer. For all of his contributions, Murray was awarded the Legion of Merit. And when the war ended, he resumed his post at Harvard, where he had a whole crop of students to invite to take part in his studies, like Ted Kaczynski. Murray himself personally comes up with Ted's code name in the experiment: lawful. We don't know why. It could either suggest he used to be a rule follower, or maybe the name was meant to be ironic.

• 28:57Speaker 00

  Most of the time, the Harvard study doesn't ask much of Ted. They meet up about once a week. They have written assignments. They take personality tests. It's just this one specific experiment, carried out in March 1960, that makes some people wonder: was the Unabomber born at Harvard? Here's the experiment Murray comes up with. All 22 subjects are told to write a personal essay. He wants to know their philosophy of life, or, as he puts it, "the major guiding principles in accord with which you live or hope to live." Once they complete that task, students are told they'll take part in a little debate.

• 29:40Speaker 00

  They are told they'll have a discussion with another student about their respective philosophies. In reality, Murray brings in a talented young lawyer, straight from Harvard Law School. He's coached this lawyer to attack the subjects on their foundational beliefs. And the whole idea is to get them as upset as possible. By Murray's own admission, he wants this interrogation to be, quote, "vehement, sweeping, and personally abusive." He wants to see how people hold up under stress, which makes sense for OSS recruits, but for young college students?

• 30:26Speaker 00

  There is a lot we don't know about Ted's performance or his participation in the three-year study. Because, once he's unmasked as the Unabomber, reporters figure out that he's the subject code-named "Lawful." In response, Harvard University seals all of these files indefinitely, citing, um, privacy concerns. Alston Chase is able to read the recollections of other subjects, the ones whose real names haven't been connected to their code names. When they're interviewed about the experiment afterward, they describe terrible discomfort, anger, and feeling trapped.

• 31:11Speaker 00

  Forty years later, in 2000, Alston Chase writes an article for The Atlantic. Based on his research, he thinks Ted's disdain for technology and his desire for revolution and revenge were solidified at Harvard. And he suspects the Murray experiments only made matters worse. It could have intensified a distrust in authority that was already simmering. It might have made him more stubborn in his beliefs. According to his brother David, Ted once explained that he stayed in the study because he wanted to prove that he could not be broken down. His family has even alleged that the study could have aggravated his existing

• 31:55Speaker 00

  mental illness. Not everyone agrees, of course. Twenty-one other students came out of the same experiment, upset, maybe even traumatized, but, well, they didn't become serial killers. Was Henry Murray a monster who wanted to push young men beyond what they could handle? Most would say, no, definitely not. Would his study be considered unethical by today's standards? Almost certainly, yes. Did Henry Murray continue his work with the CIA long after World War II? And did he have a personal interest in brainwashing and using drugs to enhance interrogation techniques?

• 32:39Speaker 00

  Well, according to some people, maybe he did.

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• 33:47Speaker 00

  The type of experiments Henry Murray carried out on Harvard students back in the 1950s and 60s wouldn't happen today. Even Murray's biographer will admit they'd be considered unethical by modern standards, and kind of by the standards of the time, too. The Nuremberg Code was already well in effect. None of the students knew they were in for what Murray called "stressful disputation," or that he'd planned to subject them to an ambush that was, as he put it, "vehement, sweeping, and personally abusive." He was ignoring the rule of informed consent. And presumably, he was trying to catch his subjects off guard.

• 34:29Speaker 00

  He was studying human responses to stress, but interrogations are stressful enough as is. Why the element of surprise? The lie. Well, some think it's possible that Murray's work with the OSS and then the CIA never really ended. In 1958, he toured the Soviet Union on the CIA's dime. He reportedly traveled with a fellow psychologist, who was definitely consulting for the agency. During that time, hundreds of college professors and their research projects were getting bankrolled by the CIA. And lastly, we know that the CIA based some of their enhanced interrogation

• 35:12Speaker 00

  or torture techniques on Murray's early work. Some have suggested Murray could have, in some way, been involved in Project MKUltra, the government's clandestine research into brainwashing techniques. This conspiracy theory likely stems from Murray's past work with the OSS. According to Timothy Leary, Murray oversaw early tests of drug-induced interrogations, primarily using sodium amytol, aka "truth serum." However, no direct proof of his involvement with MKUltra has ever come to light. As for Murray's three-year-long studies at Harvard,

• 35:54Speaker 00

  the consensus is that he wasn't trying to be malicious. The question isn't, did Murray intentionally create the Unabomber? That doesn't seem to line up with any of his goals. But Alston Chase isn't the only person, or even the first person, to suspect that this experiment had an adverse effect on Ted Kaczynski. His defense team uncovers the Murray study when they're gearing up for the Unabomber trial. At one point, the lawyers consider entering an insanity defense. Realistically, it would be hard to prove in court. There's extensive evidence that Ted knew what he was doing was wrong.

• 36:35Speaker 00

  Moreover, Ted's insistent that he is sane and he doesn't want to plead insanity. By court order, Ted is examined by a forensic psychiatrist, Sally Johnson. She concludes that he's competent to stand trial and even to defend himself, which doesn't end up happening. But she also gives a provisional diagnosis: paranoid schizophrenia. And so Ted's lawyers end up working the Murray angle. They hope it will be a mitigating factor. If they can't go for the insanity defense, they can try to present as much evidence as possible in the hopes of swaying a jury away from the death penalty.

• 37:20Speaker 00

  When Sally Johnson looks into Ted's past, she reveals that during Ted's college years, he fantasized about revolutionary violence. And it was during this time in his life, she believes, that he started to plan his exit from normal society. If you ask Ted's friends from Harvard, because he did have friends, they noticed a change in him as an undergrad. He became more withdrawn by the time he left Cambridge, which coincided with his exit from the study. Later, Ted writes to Alston Chase about the Murray experiment.

• 38:01Speaker 00

  He doesn't say much, only that when his defense team tried to elicit more information and files from Harvard, the school wasn't very cooperative. According to Alston, Ted felt that they were acting like they had something to hide. But here's the kicker. Ted Kaczynski also writes a letter in response to the 2017 TV series Manhunt Unabomber. It's a fictionalized version of events that plays up the theory that Dr. Murray tortured a young Ted, perhaps as part of Project MKUltra, and created the Unabomber. And Ted says, "The show got it all wrong. There was no torture, yes.

• 38:46Speaker 00

  That one interrogation in 1960 was unpleasant." But he doesn't seem to believe the study had any lasting effect on him. So, well, maybe Harvard isn't the reason we end up with the Unabomber. Perhaps that just happens to be where Ted Kaczynski is when the ideas start to solidify. Maybe it could have happened anywhere. Maybe he's telling the truth, the study was simply unpleasant, and the Unabomber's origins could have come from many different places. Sally Johnson, the forensic psychiatrist, suggested that Ted held on to intense anger toward his family, as well as anybody who'd ever wronged him, and toward society as a whole.

• 39:31Speaker 00

  Eventually, Ted names some of his inspirations for writing his manifesto, such as French philosopher Jacques Ellul. He even says that when he initially read Ellul, it was the first time he came across such an anti-technology author, which seems to debunk some of Alston Chase's research into Ted's old Harvard syllabus. Which leaves us with another possibility, that this is a case of looking for catharsis where there is none to be had. For some, the Unabomber's ideas are too uncomfortable. He's questioning the basis of our society and challenging our ability to be happy inside this system.

• 40:14Speaker 00

  For others, the Unabomber's ideas hit too close to home. Now, his manifesto presents a lot of dangerous and dark ideas, yes, and his actions are indefensible, 100%. But some readers also agree with portions of his ideology, like this thought: "If we're not careful, technology will destroy nature and overpower humanity." If that philosophy resonates with you at all, the entire Unabomber story becomes exponentially more unsettling. I agree with those ideas, but not the harm and killing. It's natural, then, to want an explanation for what pushed him that far,

• 40:56Speaker 00

  to want a specific place, time, and experiment to blame. So, where was the Unabomber born? If there is an answer out there, it could remain under lock and key at Harvard University. Even after Ted Kaczynski's death in 2023, the files on "Lawful" remain sealed. Perhaps forever. Thank you for listening to Conspiracy Theories. We're here with a new episode every Wednesday. Be sure to check us out on Instagram at the conspiracy pod.

• 41:39Speaker 00

  If you're watching on Spotify, swipe up and give us your thoughts. Our sources for today's episode include Harvard and the Unabomber, The Education of an American Terrorist by Alston Chase, and the Netflix docu-series Unabomber, in his own words. Until next time, remember, the truth isn't always the best story. And the official story isn't always the truth. This episode was written and researched by Mickey Taylor, edited by Justin Sales, fact-checked by Sophie Kemp, and engineered, video-edited, and sound-designed by Alex Button.

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