Oh Walt Whitman!

Conan talks to Brooke in New York City about working as an intimacy coordinator, closure practices, and the most common inaccuracies while filming a sex scene. Wanna get a chance to talk to Conan? Submit here: teamcoco.com/apply

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:21Speaker 02

  Conan O'Brien Needs a Fan. Want to talk to Conan? Visit teamcoco.com/callconan. Okay, let's get started.

• 1:31Conan O'Brien?

  Hey, Brooke, welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Fan.

• 1:33Speaker 04

  Hey, how's it going?

• 1:34Conan O'Brien?

  Hey, Brooke, how are you?

• 1:35Speaker 04

  I'm great, how are you?

• 1:36Conan O'Brien?

  I'm doing all right. Where, I don't see where you are in the world. Where are you?

• 1:42Speaker 04

  I'm in New York, currently in Queens.

• 1:44Conan O'Brien?

  You're in Queens? Oh, terrific. And all I know about you, it says here, and this is fascinating to me, is that you are an intimacy coordinator. Is that correct?

• 1:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's correct. It's the best job in the world.

• 1:58Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 1:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, it is.

• 2:00Conan O'Brien?

  Well, I'm, okay, Sona, why don't you tell us?

• 2:04Speaker 05

  So excited.

• 2:05Conan O'Brien?

  Clearly, Sona's the one that has thoughts about this. Um, this is, I mean, this job is endlessly fascinating to me. And I would think it's become more and more necessary as sex scenes, if you think about, you know, back in the day, it was a, it was a kiss and then the camera would drift over to an open window and some billowing curtains and then pan back over and people were smoking cigarettes and the covers are pulled up to their chins. So obviously, as sex scenes become more graphic and realistic, you need people there to make sure that everything's copacetic. Is that correct?

• 2:43Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think the position came out of the Me Too movement where all of a sudden the awareness of some of the abuses in Hollywood became very apparent. And as a result, producers started being willing to pay for someone to be there, both for guaranteeing that actors can consent to what's being asked of them

• 3:10Speaker 04

  in a private setting with someone who's not in charge of hiring or firing them.

• 3:13Conan O'Brien?

  Oh, right, right.

• 3:15Speaker 04

  And then also, exactly what you're saying, the artistic side of it, which is the fun part, is making the scenes more believable, authentic, compelling, absurd, whatever the need of that project is.

• 3:29Conan O'Brien?

  Okay, I mean, I'm curious, first of all, how did you become, how does one become an intimacy coordinator?

• 3:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, well nowadays, there's schools you can go to, but I started back in 2016. I was an actor for a bunch of years and I tended to get cast in roles that involved intimacy or trauma. And I realized that I'd taken years and years of study, I have my MFA in performance, and all of my teachers taught me how to get to the place of grief or fear or terror, but not how to get back from it.

• 4:05Conan O'Brien?

  Got it.

• 4:05Speaker 04

  And I had a summer that I was doing three shows in a row, three theater shows,

• 4:11Speaker 04

  where I like cried for four months, basically, in every show. And I was like, I need a way to come back to who I am that's healthy. So I started creating a warm down for actors and theaters started bringing me in to teach it. And then, I'm queer, I came out late in life. And when I came out, I realized right away, I wanted to tell queer stories because I hadn't come out Earlier, because I hadn't seen representation of bisexuality.

• 4:40Conan O'Brien?

  Right.

• 4:40Speaker 04

  So I wanted to tell those stories, but I realized I had a straight lens.

• 4:43Conan O'Brien?

  Yep.

• 4:44Speaker 04

  And so I took a year and every day for a year, I read something or listened to a podcast or watched a show or took a class all on queer sex and storytelling BDSM and kink. And then theaters started bringing me in to stage that bondage scene. And then one day a theater said, hey, will you be our intimacy director again? And I was like, dear Google, what is an intimacy director? And, and right about that time, it was being named and people were paying for it. And I realized that this thing that I was doing that involved boundaries and consent, choreography and closure, which is the warm down section, there was now a field.

• 5:26Speaker 04

  And so I kind of had that, um, you know, when people say that luck is when preparation meets.

• 5:32Speaker 02

  Opportunity.

• 5:34Speaker 04

  Opportunity.

• 5:34Conan O'Brien?

  Yep.

• 5:35Speaker 04

  Yeah. That, I mean, that was my journey and it was awesome. And then when the pandemic hit, I switched to film and TV, film first. And then I got to do my first TV scene on June 1st, the first day of Pride on Harlem. And it was a queer scene and that was pretty awesome and I was hooked.

• 5:54Conan O'Brien?

  Oh, well, good. I mean, first of all, congratulations on, I'm very happy when people find, it takes a long time, sometimes, you know, it can take all different amounts of time, but it can take a very long time to find sort of your calling, you know, what you, what you feel like you were put here to do. And it found, it sounds like you, it didn't happen overnight, but you found it and that's got to be incredibly rewarding. I have to say, one thing is that I could see a lot of charlatans getting into the business and saying, yeah, I'm an intimacy coordinator, but they're not. Are there ways that you can say, I'm licensed? Is there a license you can get? Is there any way that they can patrol it so that it creeps like me, don't become intimacy coordinators? That's what I'm saying.

• 6:38Speaker 02

  You're like, do it, guys.

• 6:39Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah. Hey, you guys, why don't you do it? And I'll watch. Uh, Conan, why are we doing this at a campground?

• 6:48Conan O'Brien?

  Quiet! This is my method, you know?

• 6:51Speaker 02

  This isn't even in the scene.

• 6:52Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah. Why are you taping this with an old super, super eight camera?

• 6:59Conan O'Brien?

  So yeah, that's what I'm saying is, you know, we need to stop people like me from becoming intimacy coordinator. How are you doing that?

• 7:08Speaker 04

  I'm really glad you brought it up because I am here specifically to stop you from.

• 7:14Conan O'Brien?

  Oh, okay. All right. Well, just try.

• 7:20Speaker 04

  There isn't any licensing. There are schools that offer certification or accreditation or a diploma, but really the marker, in my opinion, is SAG-AFTRA came out with guidelines for intimacy coordinators, which is a number of things you should be trained in.

• 7:36Conan O'Brien?

  Yep.

• 7:36Speaker 04

  It adds up to a minimum, I think, of 75 hours. And then, in order to be on the SAG-AFTRA registry, you have to have worked on a SAG set for at least 60 days. So if a producer's really looking for someone who's super qualified, then that's one way to tell. But I also think asking someone about their process is really useful because not every IC is great for every project.

• 8:02Conan O'Brien?

  Right.

• 8:03Speaker 04

  And I'm a big believer that you need the right IC for your project.

• 8:07Conan O'Brien?

  What is, I mean, I want to get into some of this because there's so much I don't understand, but there are, are there devices or kinds of garments that people wear? Because you can't really have people, you know, touching each other, certain parts, right? So what's, what is the barrier to that? What is, because I've always heard that there are these things and you hear about it and you're like, I don't know what they're talking about.

• 8:37Speaker 04

  Yeah. You're exactly right. It's called a barrier.

• 8:41Conan O'Brien?

  Okay.

• 8:41Speaker 04

  And if it's a SAG-AFTRA film, there can be no actual sex acts. So a barrier can look a number of ways. It could look like this.

• 8:51Conan O'Brien?

  Oh, yes.

• 8:51Speaker 04

  This is.

• 8:52Conan O'Brien?

  That is the least sexy thing of everything. So then I went, oh, yes. And you're basically holding up.

• 8:59Conan O'Brien?

  What looks like a giant eye patch? And so I was like, oh, yeah.

• 9:04Speaker 02

  I'm glad there's, I'm glad she has props with her.

• 9:07Conan O'Brien?

  Visuals? Okay, oh, okay, so what is that? That's a barrier?

• 9:11Speaker 04

  So, you're correct that sometimes filming these scenes is the least sexy thing you'll ever do. This is a modesty garment with a barrier. It's made by Kover in New York. And basically, this is for someone with external genitalia. Some might call that a penis. And basically, you would put all, everything in here. And then you would pull it tight. And then it's taped to the top of, like, right below your belly button. And inside is a barrier. And a barrier is meant to reduce sensation and prevent the transmission of fluids.

• 9:48Conan O'Brien?

  Okay, now, a couple of things here. First of all, that thing seems huge. What do you do with all the extra room? Is that for, is that for cash and credit cards, too?

• 10:00Speaker 04

  Absolutely.

• 10:01Conan O'Brien?

  Cell phone? I'm just looking at that thinking, thinking like, there's a lot of extra room.

• 10:07Conan O'Brien?

  You know, I don't know what kind of freaks you're working with.

• 10:11Conan O'Brien?

  But, um, I'm keeping a book in there. But Brooke, um, uh, okay, fluids.

• 10:22Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 10:22Conan O'Brien?

  We have to talk about this. Is this something, and I'm, I'm asking if you're listening right now and there are children in the car, um, you know, what are you doing? But do people get themselves in a state while they're acting where there could be various secretions?

• 10:39Speaker 04

  Honestly, not very often, if at all.

• 10:42Conan O'Brien?

  Okay.

• 10:43Speaker 04

  Um, if someone were to get aroused, for example, there are lots of things you can do to let that go.

• 10:51Conan O'Brien?

  Just think about baseball. That's what I do. Just think about 1975 Red Sox and it all goes away. Oh, wait, no, it comes back with a vengeance.

• 11:01Conan O'Brien?

  Start thinking about Dwight Evans. That's a good looking man over there in right field. Anyway, um, uh, so it doesn't happen that often. What is, oh my God, what is the thing that's depicted uh, in most sex scenes that you see that's the most inaccurate? Do you know what I mean? Something where you're like, they always do this in scenes and it's not how it really works.

• 11:28Speaker 04

  Well, two things, actually, I would say. One, um, a like very fast orgasm where it's like we started touching and now we're all orgasming together at the same time.

• 11:37Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 11:38Speaker 04

  Um, but the other I would say is we often don't see the moment of like insertion.

• 11:45Conan O'Brien?

  Mm hmm.

• 11:46Speaker 04

  Where, you know, like all of a sudden they're just having sex.

• 11:50Conan O'Brien?

  Yep.

• 11:51Speaker 04

  But in real life, it takes some effort for the penis to find a vagina, for example. And.

• 11:58Conan O'Brien?

  You mean the actual moment of coordinating this part goes into this part and it takes a second, right?

• 12:06Speaker 04

  Yeah. And I think because we're not actually doing it, people forget that there needs to be that moment of reaction of like, oh, something new has happened. Whether it's a breath or a slight shift or something.

• 12:17Conan O'Brien?

  Yes. Well, first of all, thank you for getting the word out there that sometimes there can be some fumbling.

• 12:23Speaker 04

  Uh huh.

• 12:24Conan O'Brien?

  Uh, some, some confusion about what goes where.

• 12:29Speaker 04

  Which hole?

• 12:30Conan O'Brien?

  It's, well, no, hold on a second.

• 12:34Conan O'Brien?

  Maybe one knows the hole, but it's dark. You're getting yelled at. Do you know what I mean?

• 12:41Speaker 04

  You're getting yelled at?

• 12:43Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah. What are you doing?

• 12:44Speaker 04

  Some people like that.

• 12:45Conan O'Brien?

  How can, so many years and you didn't get better? That kind of thing. Oftentimes you're trying to eat a sandwich with one hand. You know, because you didn't get a chance to eat after the podcast.

• 12:59Conan O'Brien?

  I'm speaking very generally.

• 13:01Speaker 04

  Absolutely.

• 13:02Conan O'Brien?

  You know, you've got, you're looking, you're trying to watch, uh, television at the same time.

• 13:07Speaker 04

  Yourself on television.

• 13:08Conan O'Brien?

  Well, old clips of yourself, not current clips, but old clips of the TBS show and before that the NBC show.

• 13:16Speaker 04

  Oh, okay.

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• 13:26Conan O'Brien?

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• 13:41Speaker 02

  Nice.

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• 14:46Speaker 06

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• 16:07Speaker 04

  So much of intimacy is about reaction. So if we don't have those moments of reaction, we lose it. And so much of us get our education from media, our sexual education. And so when we show these things that are impossible, and of course, we can traumatize things, but we're doing a disservice to folks.

• 16:30Speaker 07

  Well, people now watch these things and they think, "Oh, you know, it's easy to do it standing up in the kitchen." Do you know what I mean? And it's, I'm telling you, it's not. It's not easy. Especially if the fridge is open, it's cold. You know what I mean? And then you try to incorporate cake batter that's nearby. Well, because you see it, and you think, "This'll be a good idea," and then you get yelled at again.

• 16:56Speaker 02

  I need to throw up. It's so gross. Cake batter? Come on. I can't. I gotta go.

• 17:05Speaker 07

  Where are you going? You've got nowhere to go.

• 17:10Speaker 07

  What do you use? Do you use drawings, charts? What do you do to try and instruct people when you're explaining how the sex scene should work?

• 17:17Speaker 04

  Tons of things. Sometimes I just use my words. Like, sometimes I do use images. Sometimes I use action figures.

• 17:24Speaker 07

  You use action figures?

• 17:28Speaker 04

  We've got a little position.

• 17:29Speaker 07

  Wait a minute, what's happening there? I need to try and figure out what's happening.

• 17:32Speaker 04

  So this gentleman on the bottom is laying down, enjoying himself.

• 17:36Conan O'Brien?

  Couldn't tell what the sex was of that person, because it's like a Lego.

• 17:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, and this other gentleman is up, one knee on the ground, one foot up, and he's pleasuring this guy, and if we wanted to turn it into a threesome.

• 17:46Conan O'Brien?

  Right.

• 17:47Speaker 04

  We could just add her.

• 17:49Conan O'Brien?

  Okay, she's underneath and...

• 17:50Speaker 04

  And she's gonna grab onto his leg, and she's fisting.

• 17:53Conan O'Brien?

  Wait, oh, she's fisting?

• 17:54Speaker 02

  Oh, good, oh, good.

• 17:56Conan O'Brien?

  She's pushing her... Okay, so, all right, that is two males and one, right? Describe what's happening here.

• 18:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, two, in this case, it's two men and one woman.

• 18:09Conan O'Brien?

  You've gotta check out the video, by the way, and it's on YouTube. You've gotta see it. It's incredible.

• 18:15Speaker 04

  But yeah, this would be a kind of particularly difficult scene to just talk through.

• 18:22Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, I mean, try to explain that.

• 18:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, so I have actor A's on the ground.

• 18:29Conan O'Brien?

  That's an Escher drawing, you don't know, the stairs are turning into more stairs, or turning into more... I mean, it's a very confusing... That's a Dalí painting, there's a melting clock in the corner. So, yeah, okay, I see what's happening. That's not a situation that probably comes along every day, you know?

• 18:44Speaker 04

  No, not that one specifically.

• 18:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, probably not.

• 18:47Conan O'Brien?

  And what movie was that for?

• 18:48Speaker 04

  I got creative just for you.

• 18:49Conan O'Brien?

  Is that Toy Story 5? What is that?

• 18:51Speaker 02

  Oh, no!

• 18:52Speaker 05

  You just got fired from it?

• 18:54Speaker 02

  You just got fired!

• 18:55Conan O'Brien?

  They're now editing me out of Toy Story 5.

• 18:57Speaker 02

  I know.

• 18:58Conan O'Brien?

  As we speak. Don't worry, it's a $100 million fix at the last second. Pixar has the money. So you have those figurines ready to go. I mean, it's not like you have to improvise with a G.I. Joe, and a Thor, and an Iron Man, right?

• 19:14Speaker 04

  No, I have a whole kit of stuff I bring to set.

• 19:17Conan O'Brien?

  I bet you do.

• 19:18Speaker 04

  Whether it be the barriers you saw, these guys. I use this for a barrier sometimes.

• 19:22Conan O'Brien?

  And what is that? That looks like a turkey.

• 19:24Speaker 04

  This is just a Squishmello, but sometimes if someone's having a rough day, it's a little bit hilarious if I just put this between the two people, because you can't have a bad day when you've got a Squishmello near you. So.

• 19:38Conan O'Brien?

  I think I'm aware that I'm not an actor every time, a true actor, every time I see a sex scene. And I think, I don't know how these people do this, you know, because there's 75 people around them. Uh, and I, I just can't imagine how they do it. Orgasming, you know, pretending to orgasm. Um, it's just, in, you know, and then there's a sound guy, you know, two inches away from you, uh, who just had a liverwurst, uh, sandwich and, you know what I mean?

• 20:13Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 20:13Conan O'Brien?

  Or a chow tobacco and it's insane.

• 20:17Speaker 04

  Absolutely. I mean, this is why we don't get aroused very often because there's all these people around. But you could do it if you wanted to, Conan, because it's actually so technical. Like I worked with an actor recently on an orgasm and we choreographed it. We like voiceographied it with what the breasts were going to be, what the vocal sounds were going to be. So that she didn't have to make any of it up. It was ready to go. Anyone can do it if they want to do it.

• 20:46Conan O'Brien?

  Okay, but here's my question. Do people ever, because sometimes they're drawing from personal experience. So when an actor is pretending to orgasm, they're really telling you often what they sound like. Or the sounds they make, which is very personal, right? Isn't that kind of strange? Has anyone ever revealed their sounds to you and you're like, oh, boy? You know what I mean?

• 21:12Speaker 04

  Well.

• 21:13Conan O'Brien?

  Someone comes in.

• 21:13Speaker 04

  That's why this position, go ahead.

• 21:15Conan O'Brien?

  Well, I'm just saying.

• 21:18Conan O'Brien?

  I'm gonna take this a little further.

• 21:20Speaker 04

  Oh, no.

• 21:20Conan O'Brien?

  Let's say you were working with me and I was in a movie where it's required that I have sex, okay? And there's a scene and you say, okay, Conan, and I'll say, well, let me just freestyle the first one.

• 21:32Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 21:32Conan O'Brien?

  And we've got the little squishy between me and the, in my, you know, the actress.

• 21:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 21:37Conan O'Brien?

  Uh, and squishy, squishy, squishy. And I'm there and I'm going, I just, you hear me freestyle, I'm going.

• 21:49Conan O'Brien?

  Walt Whitman, you know?

• 21:53Conan O'Brien?

  And you realize that, oh, Jesus Christ, those are the sounds Conan makes. And then when he reaches his climax, he shouts the name of one of our great poets, Walt Whitman.

• 22:07Conan O'Brien?

  I mean, I've just revealed to you, and I think I just did right now, to everybody listening, what my jam is. That's my jam.

• 22:16Speaker 04

  I think that's one of the reasons that it's so important to have an intimacy coordinator, because actors should not have to bring their personal experience to set.

• 22:25Conan O'Brien?

  Brooke is good at her job?

• 22:26Speaker 04

  I know.

• 22:27Conan O'Brien?

  So you're saying you would prevent me, you would prevent me from using my true noises and my certain peccadilloes in a scene?

• 22:36Speaker 04

  I would give you the opportunity to do something that the character would do, rather than what you're suggesting.

• 22:44Conan O'Brien?

  But what if the character's name is Cronin Orion?

• 22:48Conan O'Brien?

  And he's a tall Irish guy from Boston?

• 22:50Speaker 04

  You know what? You go for it.

• 22:52Conan O'Brien?

  Okay.

• 22:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:54Conan O'Brien?

  Um, I just, I think it's endlessly fascinating. And I bet you they're always coming up with new technology. They're gonna keep coming up with new things. Like, here's a spray that the guy can put on his penis that encases it in a inert goo, um, that will, you know, keep his penis from becoming aroused. You know, they'll come up with all kinds of crazy new stuff, you know? I know they will.

• 23:17Speaker 02

  I don't think they have to.

• 23:19Conan O'Brien?

  I want this spray. Come on, science. Hey NASA, let's get on it.

• 23:26Speaker 04

  That's what we need is NASA in the intimacy coordinator room. I think we could make a partnership here.

• 23:33Conan O'Brien?

  I'm just saying, um, I, I do think all foolishness aside, which is a lot of foolishness aside, but, um, it's really good that you're there doing this. Uh, and, and it's stunning to me that it took so long for people to realize that, you know, we need someone on set to make sure that the actor is taken care of and has an, uh, an advocate, you know, in the moment. And when you said, I mean, things that should be so obvious, but you can't be talking to the director or the producer who can be, who can have you fired. You need to be talking to you, Brooke. You're there telling them,

• 24:17Conan O'Brien?

  "I'm on your side and let's make this work for you." So that's, I mean, that's huge. That's a great service you're providing.

• 24:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, and I find that actors, if they're given all the information, they're ready to go for it. Most often, there's not an issue, but often in the past, actors weren't given the information in advance and things weren't choreographed. So it was just like, go for it. And then you are bringing your personal experience because that's what you know.

• 24:44Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 24:45Speaker 04

  Uh, whereas now we can say, oh, you've got a boundary about blank. Great. Let's talk through the story. Let's bring the director three other options that will work with your boundaries. And that works with the story and see how we can all make this work in a way that works for everyone. So that on the day, the actor isn't worried about the intimacy. They're able to really dig in to the acting and give it their all.

• 25:12Conan O'Brien?

  Do you, have you ever seen a couple kind of start to form a relationship when they're, you know, there's, they clearly have feelings for each other. Or you see like, oh, this isn't just acting. Have you ever seen that?

• 25:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, honestly, it happens quite frequently because our bodies respond to physical touch, to eye contact, to breath. So our bodies can tell us we're actually attracted to someone, even when we're not. And that's part of why closure practices are helpful to differentiate between when I am the character and when I am myself.

• 25:50Conan O'Brien?

  Yep.

• 25:52Speaker 04

  And if it's theater we're talking about, and two actors start to become involved, it's really important that the choreography doesn't grow with the actor's relationship, because that then isn't telling the character's story anymore. So a stage manager, for example, is in charge of keeping that choreography really precise so that it doesn't change. Because that's just not professional.

• 26:14Conan O'Brien?

  I could just see that happening all the time, though. People, and it does. People are in a movie together. They fall in love.

• 26:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 26:19Conan O'Brien?

  Or, you know, they start a relationship because they have been kissing each other and rolling around.

• 26:26Speaker 02

  Rubbing each other.

• 26:28Conan O'Brien?

  What'd you say?

• 26:28Speaker 02

  They're rubbing, they're rubbing each other.

• 26:31Conan O'Brien?

  They're wearing their, their barriers.

• 26:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, but you know.

• 26:33Conan O'Brien?

  And they, and the barriers have all that extra room. So they have Tic Tacs in there, an alarm clock.

• 26:40Speaker 02

  An alarm clock.

• 26:41Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, the one they got from their great grandfather. Just saying, that barrier had a lot of extra room.

• 26:48Speaker 04

  They can be sized, just so that you know.

• 26:50Conan O'Brien?

  A 64 ounce bottle of Dr. Pepper. What's that?

• 26:53Speaker 04

  Size them.

• 26:54Conan O'Brien?

  Oh, good God. Thank you.

• 26:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 26:56Conan O'Brien?

  You know, I just don't like to waste material. Uh, Brooke, fascinating what you do. It really is. It really is fascinating. And I'm happy for you that you, uh, that you realize this talent and you're helping people. And it's a very, it's, it's great. It's really great.

• 27:13Speaker 04

  Thanks.

• 27:13Conan O'Brien?

  You will never see me on a set having an intimate scene. That's, I will, I will always be the weirdo in the other room in any sex scene who peers in occasionally. Uh, that'll be my role. So you can teach me how to peer. Uh, Brooke, thank you so much for everything and take care and I'll see you on set.

• 27:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Anytime people talk about Icy Work, it gets more normalized. So I really appreciate you.

• 27:42Conan O'Brien?

  Normalized? What about me going, "Uh, uh, uh, Walt Whitman!" Normalized. Brooke, you called the wrong place. Thanks, Brooke. Bye.

• 27:54Speaker 04

  See you.

• 27:56Speaker 07

  Conan O'Brien Needs a Fan with Conan O'Brien, Sonam of Sessian, and Matt Gourley. Produced by me, Matt Gourley. Executive produced by Adam Sacks, Jeff Ross, and Nick Leo. Incidental music by Jimmy Vavino. Take it away, Jimmy.

• 28:13Speaker 07

  Supervising producer, Aaron Blair. Associate talent producer, Jennifer Samples. Associate producers, Sean Dougherty and Lisa Byrme. Engineering by Eduardo Perez. Get three free months of SiriusXM when you sign up at siriusxm.com/conan. Please rate, review, and subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Fan wherever fine podcasts are down.