Charli XCX

Singer-songwriter Charli XCX feels nervous about being Conan O’Brien’s friend. Charli sits down with Conan to discuss starting out in London’s underground rave scene, experiencing pop stardom secondhand before skyrocketing to fame, and highlighting moral complexity in her new mockumentary film The Moment. Later, a listener review prompts Conan, Sona, and Matt imagine what life would be like as siblings to one another. For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit TeamCoco.com. Got a question for Conan? Call our voicemail: (669) 587-2847.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Conan O'Brien?

  Coca-Cola Zero Sugar is so good, it's almost impossible not to finish it before the meal arrives. It's just too good to wait. That happens to me sometimes.

• 0:11Speaker 01

  Me too.

• 0:11Conan O'Brien?

  You can try rules like no sipping until the appetizer arrives, or you tell your friend, "Don't let me touch my glass." But every time you're staring at an empty glass. So if you've ever finished your Coke Zero before the first fry hits the table, you're among friends. It happens. Occupational hazard with Coke Zero.

• 0:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:30Conan O'Brien?

  Real Coca-Cola taste, zero sugar, too good to wait. Enjoy an ice cold Coca-Cola Zero Sugar today.

• 0:37Speaker 02

  At Amica, we believe trust is earned over a lifetime. That's why generations of customers trust Amica Life Insurance to protect the life they're building and who they build it with. Visit amica.com to get a customized quote today.

• 0:55Speaker 03

  Hi, my name is Charli XCX.

• 1:01Speaker 03

  And I feel nervous about being Conan O'Brien's friend.

• 1:28Conan O'Brien?

  Hey there, welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend. Joined as always by Sona Movsesian. You didn't change your last name when you got married.

• 1:35Speaker 01

  I didn't change it, no. It's a lot of paperwork.

• 1:38Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, and a lot of consonants.

• 1:41Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:43Conan O'Brien?

  What's Tax's last name? Is it Takas-

• 1:44Speaker 01

  Toroyan. No, it's not Takasian.

• 1:47Conan O'Brien?

  I always think it's his first name plus Azizian.

• 1:50Speaker 01

  I know, but that's not how Armenian names work. Movsesian has a lot of consonants in it. Yeah, it's a lot of letters that like really shouldn't be next to each other. Like the V and the S.

• 1:58Conan O'Brien?

  Oh, I know, it's an explosion at a Campbell's Soup factory.

• 2:00Speaker 01

  Okay, who has an apostrophe in his last name? How awful is that?

• 2:04Conan O'Brien?

  You know what, I'm here in my glass house, I'm firing stones. I thought I was safe and apparently I'm not. And Matt Gourley joining us as well. There's a, there's a fine name. Matt Gourley. None of your O apostrophe Brian or.

• 2:19Speaker 04

  Used to be Mac Gourley. Long, long ago.

• 2:22Conan O'Brien?

  What?

• 2:22Speaker 04

  Mac Gourley.

• 2:23Conan O'Brien?

  You were Mac Gourley?

• 2:25Speaker 04

  I'm told the last name.

• 2:26Conan O'Brien?

  Oh, you got rid of the Mac?

• 2:27Speaker 04

  Well, I didn't personally. I've just heard long ago that it was Mac Gourley.

• 2:31Conan O'Brien?

  Oh.

• 2:31Speaker 01

  Mac Gourley.

• 2:32Speaker 04

  You guys are looking at me like I did this.

• 2:34Conan O'Brien?

  So your name would be, wait, so your name would be Matt Mac Gourley?

• 2:37Speaker 04

  If I don't think.

• 2:38Conan O'Brien?

  Impossible to say.

• 2:38Speaker 04

  I would have think I would be named Matt.

• 2:40Conan O'Brien?

  Matt, Matt Gor.

• 2:41Speaker 04

  Matt.

• 2:41Conan O'Brien?

  No, you know what? They dropped it. I think they was Matt Gourley until you were born. And you were born Matt. So they knew that they had to lose the Mac.

• 2:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:50Conan O'Brien?

  He was born with a hi, my name is Matt on his chest.

• 2:54Speaker 04

  I was.

• 2:54Conan O'Brien?

  You know, it's interesting that we're talking about birth and related matters.

• 2:59Speaker 04

  Nice.

• 2:59Conan O'Brien?

  Because you are going to be taking a leave of absence for a while. And this is, this is big news. What's going on?

• 3:07Speaker 04

  Well, I'm having a baby.

• 3:08Speaker 01

  Yay.

• 3:10Speaker 04

  Not my wife. I am.

• 3:12Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, you're doing it all yourself.

• 3:13Speaker 04

  No.

• 3:14Conan O'Brien?

  So when, I won't say ask when specifically, but this is gonna happen soonish.

• 3:19Speaker 04

  Soon, yeah. I mean, God only knows. It may already have happened the way this seems to be going. Who knows? My man has just got this feeling that it's coming early. So.

• 3:28Speaker 01

  Oh, boy.

• 3:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, this is a girl. We're having another little girl. I'm.

• 3:32Conan O'Brien?

  That's amazing.

• 3:33Speaker 04

  Over the moon. I'm excited about this.

• 3:35Conan O'Brien?

  Well, you know, I think I'm the first one to make this analogy, but to me, it just feels like, you know, you're going from one on one defense to zone? Is, is that something I just thought of?

• 3:44Speaker 04

  Impplies that I understand sports in any way.

• 3:47Conan O'Brien?

  Also, it implies that I've never heard a thousand people say that.

• 3:50Speaker 04

  Yeah. Well, you've, you've had two kids. You obviously have two kids, but they came at once.

• 3:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:54Speaker 04

  So you kind of won the lottery and getting it over with.

• 3:56Speaker 01

  I did. I know a lot of people think twins is hard, but I think having a little kid and a baby and doing that all over again, that's harder.

• 4:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, cause Glenn is already anticipating it.

• 4:06Conan O'Brien?

  I mean, two at the same time. I can't even imagine that.

• 4:09Speaker 01

  I know.

• 4:09Conan O'Brien?

  And one punched the other out first? Is that what happened? There was a brawl inside the womb?

• 4:14Speaker 01

  Oh, probably. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 4:16Conan O'Brien?

  Mikey punched Charlie and he went flying out like the way cowboys would fly out of a barroom.

• 4:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of brawls still happening.

• 4:23Conan O'Brien?

  A little doors down there that went.

• 4:24Speaker 01

  Saloon doors?

• 4:25Conan O'Brien?

  Saloon doors. Yeah. And punch and then, and then.

• 4:28Speaker 01

  Oh, God.

• 4:31Speaker 04

  This is highly problematic.

• 4:33Conan O'Brien?

  Did you hear piano music? Bum bum bum and then punch. And he went flying out. Mikey punched Charlie. Charlie goes flying out. And then, wow, Mikey comes out himself to finish the job. And they just punched each other down the hallway of the hospital.

• 4:48Speaker 01

  That's how my birth happened.

• 4:50Conan O'Brien?

  Well. Sorry, just can't get that image of the saloon doors.

• 4:55Speaker 01

  Don't, because what I think is, you're talking about my vagina.

• 4:59Conan O'Brien?

  Uh, yeah, sure, yeah.

• 5:01Speaker 04

  Do you mean your saloon door?

• 5:02Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 5:05Speaker 01

  That's horrible.

• 5:07Speaker 04

  Is your vagina spring loaded?

• 5:08Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 5:10Conan O'Brien?

  Does it go?

• 5:13Conan O'Brien?

  Anyway, I just like the idea of saloon music coming out. Uh, listen.

• 5:17Speaker 01

  So I had a C-section.

• 5:18Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, okay.

• 5:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:20Speaker 04

  So your stomach is a saloon door?

• 5:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh god.

• 5:23Conan O'Brien?

  No, no, that's different, that's different. That's a cellar door, you know?

• 5:29Conan O'Brien?

  You lea- kid looks around, sees a tornado coming, "Not yet." Goes back in again.

• 5:35Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 5:36Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah. Get in here, Toto, hurry, hurry. Uh, so anyway.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 5:44Conan O'Brien?

  Vaginas are saloon doors. C-sections are, of course, Kansas.

• 5:52Conan O'Brien?

  Kansas cellar doors. Um, so, uh, well, this is, let's get back to the real story here.

• 5:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:59Conan O'Brien?

  Which is that you and Amanda are having a second child. This is very exciting.

• 6:02Speaker 04

  It's exciting, um, I'm old to be a dad, so it just.

• 6:06Conan O'Brien?

  No, you're not.

• 6:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, I am. I mean, this is just not how it's typically done, but that's how it's gonna happen. And that's just.

• 6:12Conan O'Brien?

  Well, you're not old to be a dad. Look at, I think, uh, look at Michael Douglas, I think, was, had children when he was.

• 6:18Speaker 01

  Robert De Niro, Al Pacino.

• 6:20Speaker 04

  Yes, they're having children at 80.

• 6:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:23Speaker 04

  Doesn't it seem wrong?

• 6:24Speaker 01

  You're young compared to them.

• 6:26Speaker 04

  Compared to them.

• 6:27Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 6:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:28Conan O'Brien?

  They'll have the same bedtime.

• 6:30Speaker 04

  I go to bed before my children already.

• 6:32Conan O'Brien?

  That just seems, picturing Al Pacino in the crib with the baby. I guess it's good night.

• 6:42Conan O'Brien?

  What are you gonna bring me some crackers?

• 6:45Conan O'Brien?

  You gonna get a swat axe?

• 6:50Conan O'Brien?

  The hell, it's only six. I can't believe we're in here.

• 6:53Speaker 04

  Give me my milk.

• 6:56Conan O'Brien?

  Have you noticed that mama? Has a big ass!

• 7:01Conan O'Brien?

  Well, anyway, it's a lot of people are doing it and they're much younger than you.

• 7:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, I know.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  No, older than you, you mean.

• 7:08Conan O'Brien?

  No, I'm saying, you're right. You know what? I just revealed.

• 7:11Speaker 04

  This is what I'm saying.

• 7:13Conan O'Brien?

  I just revealed that I'm too old to be a dad. I can't think properly.

• 7:17Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 7:17Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, that thing that Sona said, that's what I meant.

• 7:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 7:20Conan O'Brien?

  You're much younger than they are.

• 7:21Speaker 01

  This is LA, baby. Everyone's having babies.

• 7:23Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, yeah. You're like a studio head.

• 7:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:27Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 7:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're gonna be in a house full of girls. Including your cat.

• 7:31Speaker 04

  I know. I'm gonna be the only man.

• 7:34Conan O'Brien?

  You know what?

• 7:34Speaker 04

  And then even that's pushing it.

• 7:36Speaker 01

  I know.

• 7:38Conan O'Brien?

  If, yeah, if you need to boost the testosterone around there, I'll stop by.

• 7:43Speaker 04

  We don't need a deficit.

• 7:46Speaker 04

  Why did estrogen levels just spike?

• 7:49Speaker 01

  I'll come. I'll get there. I'll do it. I'll stop by.

• 7:52Conan O'Brien?

  You know what? Yes.

• 7:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:54Conan O'Brien?

  So, uh, well, it is very exciting and how long are you gonna be departing for?

• 7:58Speaker 04

  I'm gonna be gone for about three months, but I'm sure.

• 8:00Conan O'Brien?

  What? That's way too long.

• 8:01Speaker 04

  I know. This is, hey, man, it's modern times. Paternity leave.

• 8:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, baby.

• 8:05Conan O'Brien?

  Wow, you know who would not like this conversation at all? My wife. Cause I never got any maternity leave and she was like, what's going on? I'm gonna do another show, baby.

• 8:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:14Conan O'Brien?

  America demands it. Turns out they didn't.

• 8:18Speaker 04

  But don't worry, Amanda will be here in my place.

• 8:20Conan O'Brien?

  Very good.

• 8:21Speaker 01

  Oh, nice.

• 8:21Conan O'Brien?

  She'd be great, actually. She would.

• 8:23Speaker 04

  I will be popping in and out just because we've recorded ahead some and stuff like that. You know what I mean? Like, next episode, I think I'll be there for the interview and things like that, so it may seem odd.

• 8:32Conan O'Brien?

  Quick question, and I don't want this to sound crass or bullying or in any way intimidating. Do you get paid while you're gone?

• 8:39Speaker 04

  That's a question I have for you. Yeah, good question.

• 8:41Conan O'Brien?

  Adam, how does this stuff work?

• 8:43Speaker 04

  You don't have to answer that. I don't want you to be on the spot.

• 8:45Speaker 01

  We're gonna have this conversation.

• 8:46Speaker 04

  Well, I'm an independent contractor. I'm not salaried.

• 8:49Conan O'Brien?

  Perfect.

• 8:51Speaker 01

  But you also, you support paternity leave in a man

• 8:55Conan O'Brien?

  I, listen.

• 8:56Speaker 01

  With his new child.

• 8:57Conan O'Brien?

  Listen, I want to. I want to make sure that everyone's taken care of and I believe in everyone having good childcare. But of course, my hands are tied. I am but a figurehead on the SS Conan O'Brien.

• 9:15Speaker 01

  Is this gonna be me and you?

• 9:17Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 9:18Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 9:18Conan O'Brien?

  No, wait, I think David's gonna sit in.

• 9:20Speaker 04

  We'll get some David in here.

• 9:21Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, we'll get David to sit in. Of course, Blay will be yelling and pitching a mile a minute.

• 9:26Speaker 04

  Oh, yes. Yep.

• 9:29Conan O'Brien?

  Hey, guess what? With those kind of energy nuggets, we can't go wrong.

• 9:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, and I reserve the right, if there's some stellar guest, I'm coming in.

• 9:36Conan O'Brien?

  Oh, trust me. Yeah, hey, the whole cast of Blizzle Blurther, cast men of the Sith. I don't know.

• 9:44Speaker 01

  What? Men of the Sith?

• 9:46Speaker 04

  No, men of the Sith.

• 9:47Speaker 01

  Men of the Sith?

• 9:48Speaker 04

  That sounds like a Star Wars erotic calendar.

• 9:51Speaker 01

  I would watch that. That's when I watch Star Wars.

• 9:54Speaker 04

  Oh, men of the Sith.

• 9:56Conan O'Brien?

  Blizzle Blattle. And also, men of the Sith. I said it like there was vomit in my mouth. Men of the Sith.

• 10:04Speaker 04

  Men of the Sith. Oh.

• 10:05Conan O'Brien?

  Well, listen.

• 10:06Speaker 04

  The 2026 erotic men of the Sith calendar.

• 10:09Conan O'Brien?

  Oh, man, check out February. His dizzle-dazzle goes on forever.

• 10:13Speaker 01

  Oh, boy.

• 10:14Conan O'Brien?

  Uh, listen, we should get into it. And listen, sincere congratulations to you and Amanda.

• 10:20Speaker 04

  I joke, I'm thrilled. I'm not very excited.

• 10:22Conan O'Brien?

  You are thrilled. I know you are.

• 10:23Speaker 04

  I'm anticipating it very much, so I'm nervous, but I'm excited.

• 10:26Conan O'Brien?

  Okay, well, good, be a godfather. Here we go. Today's guest. That was awkward. Today's guest.

• 10:35Speaker 04

  Gosh, uh, oof.

• 10:36Conan O'Brien?

  It was good enough for Sona's kids, but that was just weird. Hey, you wanna, you wanna hear real awkwardness? Just press rewind. Just a little bit and you'll hear the sound of just nothing. Nothing. Hey, today's guest is a Grammy award-winning singer-songwriter who now stars as a fictionalized version of herself in a terrific new mockumentary film, which I've seen and I loved it the moment. We're very excited she's here today.

• 11:14Conan O'Brien?

  Charlie XCX, welcome.

• 11:20Conan O'Brien?

  I might be your polar opposite in every way.

• 11:24Speaker 03

  No, no, no.

• 11:24Conan O'Brien?

  Although I'm huge in the clubs. You should know that.

• 11:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:28Conan O'Brien?

  Huge in the clubs. I'm huge in the London club scene.

• 11:33Speaker 03

  I bet.

• 11:33Conan O'Brien?

  You just never saw me, but I was huge. But my daughter and I saw your movie two days ago and loved it, really loved it. And when the movie was over, my reaction was, well, I don't worry about her. Because you are so smart. It is such a smart movie.

• 11:52Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 11:52Conan O'Brien?

  And I think just the right thing for you to be doing at this moment. And we'll talk about that in a bit. We'll really get into it. But I just wanted to start by saying, A, my team gets to see a lot of cool people. They're pretty excited today, to the point where when your car pulled up, people ran up to the window.

• 12:11Speaker 03

  Oh, my God.

• 12:12Conan O'Brien?

  Everyone who works for me, and they're all young. They run up to the window and they were like, it's a white Explorer. It's a Ford. It's a Ford.

• 12:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:21Conan O'Brien?

  I'm like, get away from the window.

• 12:22Speaker 04

  I threw myself on the hood. I'm sorry.

• 12:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, we hit him off with the wipers. Yeah.

• 12:29Conan O'Brien?

  You turned on the wipers?

• 12:30Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 12:30Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, yeah. Good for you.

• 12:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:33Conan O'Brien?

  But you're a very inspiring person because I love the arc of your career. It hasn't all come quickly for you, but it's been amazing. And what I wanted to start with was just kind of your origin story, your superhero origin story, which is you kind of lived dual lives growing up.

• 12:53Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 12:53Conan O'Brien?

  Because your mom and your dad came from completely different worlds. Is that right?

• 12:57Speaker 03

  True. Yeah, yeah. My mom grew up in Uganda. Her and her family had been there for years. She's Indian. And she was removed from the country by Idi Amin in the 70s.

• 13:14Conan O'Brien?

  Right.

• 13:15Speaker 03

  And then she came to the UK then. And her and her family were kind of like, you know, rehoused. And I remember she told me it was like when they touched down in the UK, weirdly at the airport that's kind of like opposite where my parents still live now. She'd never experienced snow before. And this was like the first time she had ever been somewhere so cold. And they gave all of the kids these huge fur coats.

• 13:46Speaker 03

  So she's kind of like stepping off the plane.

• 13:49Speaker 04

  Wait, why are they handing her a pimp coat?

• 13:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know. So she's like, it was kind of a cool welcome, I guess.

• 13:55Speaker 05

  You mean like when you go to Hawaii, you get a lay?

• 13:57Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 13:57Speaker 05

  When you come to London, you get a.

• 13:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, you get a giant fur coat. Wow, welcome.

• 14:00Speaker 03

  So they were kind of like swagged out, I guess. And then my dad, he is adopted and his adopted family are Scottish. So, you know, we say Scottish. But he grew up kind of like near where they raised me. And yeah, they met in a club on New Year's Eve.

• 14:20Speaker 04

  No, so, and am I right? You were born in Cambridge?

• 14:24Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 14:24Speaker 04

  Which I was in Cambridge weeks ago.

• 14:27Speaker 03

  How is it that I haven't been back for a minute?

• 14:29Speaker 04

  It's Hogwarts. I was hanging around at the university and it was just, oh my God, Hogwarts exists.

• 14:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, totally.

• 14:35Speaker 04

  And, and this is it. But it was lovely. It's, it's almost like a theme park because it's exactly what you think the quintessential old British, you know, university should look like.

• 14:46Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 14:47Speaker 04

  But you then have this kind of, I wouldn't say schizophrenic, but dual world that you're living in. Where if you're hanging out in your dad's world, in whether it's Essex or Cambridge, you feel like an outsider, I'm imagining in some ways.

• 15:02Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 15:02Speaker 04

  And then if you're visiting with your mom's people, that's a whole different experience.

• 15:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, totally. I mean, it's, it's funny. It's like, I grew up, yeah, in Essex and I went to school in a town called Bishop's Stalford. And it was like a lot of white kids, you know, predominantly. And then on the weekends, I would go and kind of visit my mom's side of the family who lived like in Crawley.

• 15:32Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 15:32Speaker 03

  And that was a very much more like traditionally Indian setup, like big family gatherings, so much food. Bollywood playing in the background, speaking Gujarati, except I never really learnt much apart from jali jali, which means quick, quick. That's like all I know. That's really all you need to know. Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, like, sometimes like doing prayer and like sometimes going to mosque and things like that. And then, like, um, yeah, not really having any of that kind of experience uh when I was like going to school or um during the weeks, really. And and it was kind of hard to

• 16:16Speaker 03

  really feel that I fit into either world, I suppose, because most of my classmates sort of touch point for an Indian person was a poo on The Simpsons, you know? Right. So it was like that was what an Indian person was, you know? Yeah, yeah. Um, so, uh, it was very like, it was a bit jarring, but also it's it it was also, I must say, like, it was like, okay, you know, it was, it was like, my mom had to struggle a lot more with dealing with kind of um racism and uh things like that when she was not only growing up, but even when she was like living in our

• 17:00Speaker 03

  our town. Like, I remember one day she she came home because she'd kind of had like a milkshake thrown over her and been told to go home and things like that. And I've, you know, been very lucky that I haven't had to experience that, probably because I'm a lot more passing than she is. Mm hmm. Um, but yeah, it's it is interesting kind of being from both worlds and not particularly feeling like I belonged in either. And and it's and it's also funny because I think doing what I do now, I I definitely feel that sometimes when I Google myself, which I do, um, I sometimes see that people are sort of like mad that I don't really talk about this side of my life that much. Yeah.

• 17:41Speaker 03

  Um, but the reason I don't is because no one asks me. So now that you have kind of sat here and asked me, I'm more than willing and happy to talk about it. I just feel very awkward about using like my culture as a USP. Like, I find it to be kind of a little bit grotesque. Yeah. And it's not something that I feel like I really want to do because there are parts of me that feel just distant from both sides of my upbringing. But when someone asks me about it, I'm so happy to talk about.

• 18:13Speaker 04

  Well, I don't know what you think about this, but I've always had this notion or theory that it's good for an artist to be maybe slightly uncomfortable when they're younger. That may sound like, oh, that can't be true, but it is, I feel there's something to the idea that not feeling particularly cool when you're a kid or not being sure what your identity is, it's like the sand in the oyster that gives you the pearl, it may be something that you can access. Is that possible for you?

• 18:47Speaker 03

  Oh, my gosh, 100%. And I wouldn't say that that just comes from my heritage. It's like that, I think, for me, comes from feeling, I felt like I was a loser, you know, like, I so like, it was like coming, which, and I feel like so many artists have that experience of like, they're, they're just, they've just feel so isolated and alone and uncool and all, you know, all the, the things or whatever, I don't know. And I definitely felt that way and, and still do. And, you know, I think it's like, actually why I used the word nervous at, at the, at the top of this is because often when I meet people, I'm at a party

• 19:28Speaker 03

  and it's nighttime and there are so many additional things that can help me feel relaxed. You know what I mean?

• 19:38Speaker 04

  We're talking about hot chocolate.

• 19:41Speaker 03

  Yes, yeah. And I'm not drinking hot chocolate right now. You know what I mean? So it's like.

• 19:47Speaker 04

  Oh, then you should try hard drugs.

• 19:48Speaker 03

  Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

• 19:50Speaker 04

  What? She doesn't know what hard drugs are.

• 19:53Speaker 03

  I don't. Everyone thinks I do, but I just, I don't. But, um, yeah, so it's like in the cold light of day, sometimes I do, I do get a little bit nervous and I, and I kind of revert back to that, um, that younger girl who I think sometimes would feel really out of her comfort zone when meeting people and feeling like, you know, you have to sort of like establish that you're like a functioning human with a brain and things like that. And sometimes it's like, oh, so, yeah.

• 20:25Speaker 04

  But I'm telling you, there's, uh, and I think a lot of people listening can relate to this. It's a lot of people that would look at you and the stunning, astounding success you've had and the career you've had and say, oh.

• 20:37Conan O'Brien?

  She's just cool and she knows it and that's who she is and they don't understand the chemistry behind it. There needs to be moments, big moments where you're insecure, where you think, I don't have any ideas, sometimes imposter syndrome. Everybody, all the people I admire have that in moments.

• 20:57Speaker 03

  Of course.

• 20:57Conan O'Brien?

  And they can access it. I'm someone who can go up in front of a lot of people and take charge and be perfectly in control, but I can also in a second, after I'm done with my performance, access the me that's 16 years old, bad skin, doesn't know how to talk to girls, way too skinny, feels like a loser. That person is always lurking around and I can access that person whether I want to or not in a second. That's just part of the formula.

• 21:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, I agree. And I think it's the sort of, the kind of duality of both that makes a good artist. I can't imagine if you were just like so like chill and confident and happy with yourself all the time, you'd make terrible art.

• 21:42Conan O'Brien?

  I know.

• 21:43Speaker 03

  Probably.

• 21:44Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, exactly. No, that's why, you know, nothing would enrage me more than if a really good looking guy that I knew in high school, who was an incredible athlete, went on to become the seminal artist. I would be enraged.

• 21:58Speaker 03

  No, it's nightmare.

• 21:59Conan O'Brien?

  I would say, no, whatever success I have is my consolation prize for years of celibacy. You don't need to know about that, Charlie. That's my problem, not your problem.

• 22:17Conan O'Brien?

  You know, winning an award, that's a big achievement, right?

• 22:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:20Conan O'Brien?

  Every now and then in life, maybe something nice like that comes your way. Winning them consistently is almost impossible. It just doesn't happen, you know? Well, guess what? Winning five times in six years? You know what that sounds like to me? Sustained excellence.

• 22:34Speaker 01

  Nice.

• 22:34Conan O'Brien?

  Hyundai has done just that, earning the title of America's best SUV brand for 2026 from US News and World Report. You are a very happy Hyundai driver.

• 22:43Speaker 01

  I drive a Hyundai Palisade and I love my car. I love it. I love driving it around.

• 22:47Conan O'Brien?

  I've been tooling around in an Ioniq 5N, which I love.

• 22:51Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 22:52Conan O'Brien?

  Beautiful car. Well, listen, whether you need an SUV for everyday life, your next big adventure, or extra room for family and friends, Hyundai has an option for you. The Tucson Hybrid is loaded with technology and built for everyday life. The Santa Fe Hybrid's fully capable and ready for adventure. The Palisade, that's yours, right?

• 23:07Speaker 01

  Hello!

• 23:07Conan O'Brien?

  They're gonna rename that the Sona. The Palisade Hybrid, yeah, delivers premium capability and class-leading interior space. With available, I have this memorized, H-Track all-wheel drive, up to an EPA-estimated 619 miles of range on vehicles like the Palisade Hybrid and Hyundai's industry-leading warranty. It's easy to see why Hyundai continues to deliver the quality, innovation, technology, and value drivers expect from an award-winning brand. View US News Best Cars at cars.usnews.com and call 562-314-4603 for complete details.

• 23:42Conan O'Brien?

  Sona, you have to admit, the holidays, it's really about hanging with the people you love.

• 23:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:48Conan O'Brien?

  And getting to be yourself. Not going to some stuffy holiday party where you need to conform to what the man wants you to think about the holidays.

• 23:57Speaker 01

  Yeah!

• 23:58Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, it's about being yourself. Turn your holiday time into Miller time by enjoying a Miller Lite in a place where you're free to enjoy yourself on a walk with a cousin. With a cousin? Why are they getting all specific about it?

• 24:09Speaker 01

  Because it's family.

• 24:09Conan O'Brien?

  But what about a niece or a nephew?

• 24:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:12Conan O'Brien?

  Um, like a walk with an ex-wife. Uh, I don't know. I mean, they're just throwing, that's a weird, they just made a very specific choice.

• 24:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:20Conan O'Brien?

  Now's the time for those unexpected holiday side guests and enjoy a great tasting light beer. 'Tis Miller time, as Dickens wrote.

• 24:29Conan O'Brien?

  Miller Lite is brewed for taste, the taste you can depend on. The original light beer since 1975 and still iconic more than 50 years later. I like to be with my bros, my chums, my posse. Crack open a Miller Lite, take a swig, a sip, look around and see my friends. We've known each other forever and we're just hanging out.

• 24:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, you guys are just doing chest bumps and high fiving.

• 24:50Conan O'Brien?

  Miller Lite is great taste done right. Go to millerlite.com/conan to find delivery options near you, or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. Tis Miller time. Celebrate responsibly Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.

• 25:07Speaker 06

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• 25:42Speaker 04

  Okay, I'm going to tell you a way that your parents are different than mine. There's many ways, but this is the biggest one that stands out to me. The way that my parents are different from Charlie XCX's parents. Your parents took you to perform at illegal raves.

• 25:58Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 25:59Speaker 04

  Never happened with me.

• 26:01Speaker 03

  Right.

• 26:02Speaker 04

  And I heard that fact and I thought, this is really interesting, because you were young at the time, they were taking you to illegal raves. These are parents who really, they were out of their comfort zone, especially your mom. To go to a rave and to take you to this world is a level of support that, to me, feels phenomenal.

• 26:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, of course. I mean, obviously at the time, I was like, can you guys wait outside? You're like cramping my style. You know, I was like so ungrateful in a way. Because who wants to go to the rave with their parents? So it's so... Fucking embarrassing.

• 26:39Conan O'Brien?

  Especially when they jump on stage.

• 26:41Speaker 03

  You know, you know, it's like, you're like, oh, God, but but like, also, I will say they were they were very, very respectful of my space and and stuff. Um, when we went and yes, now with hindsight, I'm like, wow, that is so cool of them. Like, they didn't have to do that. Like, they they they kind of like drove me up there and would sort of like hang out in the back. And this is like late stuff. This is like, I would go on at four AM. You know what I mean? Like, and they were, they were, yeah, like so, so kind of cool of them to to do that. I will say, like, when I said to them that I really had this big plan to like move in with one of the rave promoters when I was sixteen in a warehouse in Hackney Wick.

• 27:22Speaker 03

  They drew the line there and they were like, that sounds like a bad idea. And I was like, does it? I think it sounds amazing. And they were like, yeah, yeah, no. So they they were, they were supportive.

• 27:34Conan O'Brien?

  You know, I like them even more now.

• 27:36Speaker 03

  I know. Yeah, no, no.

• 27:37Conan O'Brien?

  They did draw the line.

• 27:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're they're great. They and and I think it's cool. It's like my my dad was very much kind of like a self-made guy, you know? He like worked like super hard his whole life, like working class background, like really kind of like did his thing and did everything that he could to kind of have, you know, more for himself. And I think he was very much like with the whole rave stuff. He was kind of like, oh, like, if you're really passionate about this, then you should go and perform because maybe then you can do that for real. And I think most parents would kind of be like,

• 28:14Speaker 03

  you shouldn't do that. That feels unreliable and stressful. And why don't you pursue something else? But I think he was always a bit of a dreamer. Um, which sounds like a horrid sort of cheesy thing to say, but he really was. And and so I think for him, it was like, oh, if you're passionate about something, that's really cool. Like, let's try and like figure that out. And I feel very, very, very lucky for that. You know, it's it's very cool that.

• 28:39Conan O'Brien?

  Do you ever say to yourself, I could have been a really good tax attorney?

• 28:43Speaker 03

  All the time, all the time, yeah.

• 28:46Conan O'Brien?

  Because when I was watching your movie, I was like, I'm sorry, I said, she's amazing, but tax attorney.

• 28:51Speaker 03

  I know.

• 28:51Conan O'Brien?

  And we don't have a lot of them.

• 28:52Speaker 03

  I know, I know, I know. Yeah, my side hustle.

• 28:56Conan O'Brien?

  It would be so great if that was your side hustle. After a massive show, where are you going? Well, I've got to go over these.

• 29:05Speaker 03

  Catching the numbers. W2.

• 29:09Conan O'Brien?

  As a kid, you were listening to Spice Girls, No Doubt, Britney Spears, and then at some point, at a young age, you start thinking about writing yourself, and that is a leap. What is the early, early writing for you look like? Is it pen and paper and trying to write things out in a book? Or is it playing around with a musical instrument?

• 29:34Speaker 03

  It was a lot of keyboard, playing, playing the keyboard and kind of, I had like this Yamaha keyboard, and I was like making a lot of beats on there and then like record, like doing, like recording kind of separately all the different layers.

• 29:50Speaker 03

  So yeah, it was kind of like writing lyrics and then trying to figure out chords and very much like piano orientated. And I think it all began because I had this boyfriend who turned out to be gay. And honestly, all the signs were so there. He was like the coolest. And like not many, like, you know what I mean, not many like 15 year old boys are like that cool. And he was like so cool. He had great style, great taste. He made me a mixtape of stuff that I'd like never heard before. And I think it was like, that was kind of like the moment where I was like, oh, like, he kind of like opened my

• 30:31Speaker 03

  eyes to all of these different artists that I hadn't really been listening to that much before, like some kind of indie bands. And then like stuff like Gang of Four and like, I don't know, like a lot of stuff that I had not really, that it hadn't been on my radar. And at that point, I think I kind of had the hunger to try and write things myself a bit more.

• 30:51Conan O'Brien?

  Well, I mean, step number one is. Always you have to put stuff into the machine. You have to open up your head and a volume of not just a type of music, but every type of music. And they call it having big ears, but just the more stuff you're listening to at an early age. I swear to God, they're going to figure out that it happens almost on a neurological level. You can redirect, your synapses can grow.

• 31:15Speaker 03

  Right.

• 31:15Conan O'Brien?

  You can, you can teach yourself that it's a big musical world out there and it becomes part of you. But a lot of it's just osmosis. It's just listening, listening, listening. Something that really interests me about your career, which is there's so many ways that I, I can't relate to what you do. I admire it, but I, I can't relate to it. And one thing I can relate to is that I started as a writer and I would write for other people. I would write things for other voices and I listened and watched a lot of comedy, but then I would write for someone, a, a known performer. And I did that for years before I sort of solidified my thing. And I think, I know early on you're writing for a lot of other people.

• 31:59Conan O'Brien?

  And that was your, your way in. And in some ways it's helpful because you can observe. You had, you're clearly, you know, crazy intelligent. You could observe other people, how they're living, what it's like to be a huge star. And you can stand off of it for a little bit and participate, but not get the full blast right away. Does that sound right?

• 32:21Speaker 03

  Kind of, it's interesting. It's like, there is this misconception that I was writing for people first. I actually made a record first and it was really, really good. And it was like critically acclaimed, but it sold about honestly like 11 copies. It was like really, like no one bought it, basically. No one bought it, no one really heard of it, apart from like the five people who reviewed it, love them, you know? But like, and I, I, there was like a small fan base of people who were into it. It was called True Romance. And I was signed at that time to Atlantic Records. And I'm pretty sure they would have dropped me like there and then after that album. And at this point in time, this has got what like 20? Twelve, I could, I could be so wrong, twenty thirteen.

• 33:07Speaker 03

  But this was like a point in, in time where like record labels had so much more power over an artist and their career and whether they could even have a career. I mean, I think it's so different now, but back then it was like, especially being a woman making pop music, it was like, if you didn't have a label, like, forget about it. You know what I mean? But right, right at the kind of end of that album campaign, which was, it wasn't even a campaign, it just came out, whatever, like, I wrote this song called I Love It, which was sung by this Swedish band called Icona Pop.

• 33:42Conan O'Brien?

  Yep.

• 33:42Speaker 03

  And that became a big, a big song. And I think that started my career of writing for others.

• 33:48Conan O'Brien?

  Yes.

• 33:48Speaker 03

  And if I hadn't had that, then yeah, it probably would have been, you know, accountant or whatever for me. Tax.

• 33:59Conan O'Brien?

  Listen, Emily, point out, there's still time.

• 34:01Speaker 03

  I know, I know.

• 34:03Conan O'Brien?

  And I know a guy who could help you.

• 34:05Speaker 03

  Great, great.

• 34:05Conan O'Brien?

  And I know your team doesn't like what I'm taking you down.

• 34:08Speaker 03

  No, they love it. I mean, it's responsible.

• 34:10Conan O'Brien?

  If you would take three years off, this year me out, first law school, we'll do it later.

• 34:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, good, good.

• 34:17Conan O'Brien?

  The, well, that song too, I know you're singing on that song as well.

• 34:22Speaker 03

  I am, yes.

• 34:22Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 34:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 34:23Conan O'Brien?

  And so, I mean, that, that experience of you getting your music across and working with another artist or through another artist, you, you have that period of time, you have this long arc of making very successful music. I mean, my daughter, who I told you is a massive fan, has been listening to you for years, long before Brat.

• 34:49Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 34:50Conan O'Brien?

  And was a fan of yours. And then, so when the moment comes that Brat comes out, Brat Summer, the whole cultural phenomenon of that, you're probably maybe a little better prepared if you can be prepared.

• 35:04Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 35:04Conan O'Brien?

  For something like that.

• 35:05Speaker 03

  For sure. I mean, one hundred percent. It's funny, like, I guess as an artist, I had already sort of like dabbled in like commercial success. Through, um, yeah, the songs I had written for other people and been a feature on and, you know, that had like literally taken me around the world and been allowed me to perform on different stages and things like that. So I kind of had this like secondhand experience, as you were saying, of like pop star success, but it wasn't, I was sort of like the one like photo bombing the photo rather than like in the main center frame. But it was cool, you know, I was cool with that. But, um, yeah, and then I, I sort of, I, I had my own song, this song called Boom Clap, which was in this film called Fault in Our Stars.

• 35:48Speaker 03

  And that was my sort of big like, oh, now she's gonna do it. And I like, it didn't really happen. Like, I, I don't think I was ready then. Like, I didn't really, I didn't really like have my brain like fully dialed as like an artist brain in a way. Like, I wasn't connecting all the pieces of the puzzle together in the, in the way that I, I do now when I think about my work. And then after that, I kind of like went into this other world of, okay, now I'm gonna kind of really like make underground stuff and work with like my freaky friends and things like that. And so when Brat happened and, um, people were into that record, I was actually kind of at this point where, um, I was kind of like, I'm just gonna make this, this record for me and

• 36:32Speaker 03

  I don't really care if anybody else likes it. This is for me. This is for my fans. I felt like I was at a point in my, my career where I could really like sustain, like being able to do what I wanted. Even if the album wasn't like commercially successful, like I was like totally at peace with it. And I'd been so swinging on the pendulum back and forth between like what I wanted as a person, as an artist prior to that. But with this record, I was like down the line, like I am ready for it to flop. And I am gonna stand by it. I love it. Like, this is for me and my fans who like give a fuck about what I'm doing. Um, and then obviously like it didn't really happen like that. I like a lot more people than my hardcore fanbase were into the record.

• 37:16Speaker 03

  And I think because I had had this prior journey before of like, you know, being in the background of the photos and like kind of like having this sort of like almost type moments. I felt, yeah, like I'd kind of like seen so much and I'd also like experienced so much of what the industry is and how people come and go and how people treat you when you're on top versus when you're not. And I think not to be, not to sound jaded, it's not that I was jaded. I think I'm just quite realistic about fame and the industry and how serious or

• 37:56Speaker 03

  unseriously you need to take it. And yeah, I don't know. I, I feel, I feel like really thankful that I got to have the experience that I had prior to Brat because I think it, I think I would have been a nightmare if I hadn't. Like, I really, honestly, like really, like I think it would have been like quite a dangerous like concoction of things all coming together.

• 38:19Conan O'Brien?

  It makes you feel, feel sorry or have empathy for people. There are people that have that when they're nineteen, twenty, twenty-one and um, oftentimes that can lead to drug addiction, mental illness, because I don't think people are meant to experience that. And um, it's not something biologically we're meant to be able to handle. I'm just curious because there's a little bit of false modesty about Brat. It wasn't just successful. Um, very few times can you say that an album is a cultural phenomenon. This really was. It was artistically a smash, but it took on a whole life. The color and font of the album became a thing.

• 39:05Conan O'Brien?

  That's when you know you've done something interesting, you know? Um, when, you know, you're whatever, you're passing by a coffee shop and the color and the font is telling you buy a mochaccino and you're like, okay, this isn't, doesn't even have anything to do with Brat. They're trying to use Brat to sell a mochaccino. Yeah. This is weird. Was there a moment uh when you've had success before, you'd been playing before people for a long time? Was there a moment that crystallized for you where you thought, oh my God, this is weird? This is big.

• 39:38Conan O'Brien?

  Or was it all kind of fluid in a way? You're in a flow state?

• 39:40Speaker 03

  I kind of flow state and also I'm very bad at um doing the thing where you like look back and acknowledge success like I'm kind of like next thing let's go like I I don't know like I I can sit here and you know talk to you guys and say like actually yeah it was really cool like but in the moment I wasn't really thinking like that um and and I think I find the whole sort of like social experiment of the whole thing really fascinating and I think the way that people interact with pop culture has always been like a huge um inspiration to my

• 40:18Speaker 03

  work and so for me this was sort of like oh my god this was like the cherry on the cake of everything I had ever hoped for because it was so interesting to see how people fans haters brands presidential campaigns were interacting with you know what I was doing and and I I found it very very yeah fascinating the way that um yeah like trend cycles happen and and yeah it's like that's always been such interesting fuel for for me and for my work like I'm I'm fascinated with how people engage with stuff like that.

• 41:01Conan O'Brien?

  This is all served you really well because The Moment is your movie and

• 41:08Conan O'Brien?

  it is a mockumentary which I don't think quite describes it because it's a yes it's a pretend documentary it can be very funny at times but the thing and Sonya you saw it as well the thing that struck me as I watched it and I thought this is true this is very very true I'm speaking as someone who has nothing no connection to that world and that experience but you can tell when something is authentic and this is a very smart honest funny wry look at what you You went through and no, it is not factual, but it's true.

• 41:53Conan O'Brien?

  And I was really blown away by, I mean, just when you watch the movie, you get a really good sense of what it's like to be you. And I know it's your, it's a version of you, but it, it felt to me like a very honest, cool, innovative document and I loved it. I really did. And I don't know what your experience was, Sona.

• 42:18Speaker 01

  You know what? It reminded me of something you said, which is a lot of times people try to justify their paychecks. And it seemed like there was a lot of characters in here who were trying to justify their paychecks in a way. And it shows you, it shows you what it really is for people who are such a big part of the zeitgeist, who have so many voices that are just coming at them. And I don't, I mean, it was so, it was really funny. Alexander Skarsgård.

• 42:43Conan O'Brien?

  Oh, my God.

• 42:43Speaker 01

  Is so amazing in it. It was, he's so incredible in this movie. But everybody is so funny. It's also very real and it's, it's such a great glimpse into what it's like to go through what you went through.

• 42:56Conan O'Brien?

  We're big Rachel Sennett fans and she was sitting in that chair weeks ago and we were talking about her new show and I just adore her. I love that she's playing this version of herself, which isn't all that flattering and it's, it's really funny. The Kylie Jenner.

• 43:12Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 43:13Speaker 03

  Like, yes, she kills.

• 43:15Conan O'Brien?

  But also I love that she comes in and encounters you at a weak moment and gives you this advice, which is like comically, she's telling you, you gotta go for it. You gotta do this. But in a way you're thinking, no, don't listen to Kylie.

• 43:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, and she looks ethereal, like her lighting is insane.

• 43:33Speaker 03

  And I look insane.

• 43:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like, I love the song about the fruit.

• 43:39Conan O'Brien?

  You know, there, there were so many moments that are, and, and yeah, Alexander Skarsgård's coming in and he's this very awkward, weird energy. But to your point, Sona, it's a really good point. The thing I liked the most about the movie is something that happens all the time in any kind of entertainment endeavor, which is. You are you. You are a real person living in the world. You have these experiences. You were following your own North Star creatively, making your stuff. Then you hit this motherload of insane success. And you're right, credit card companies, you know, Frappuccino companies, you know, sneaker companies, banks, presidential candidates.

• 44:22Conan O'Brien?

  Everybody moves in and then you have a team. And as we talked about earlier, a lot of your work is flow state work. But now people are saying, now, hold on a second. It's not good for Arby's Restaurant if you, you know, say fuck in the song. Could you instead say, I enjoy Arby's? And you're saying, what?

• 44:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:42Conan O'Brien?

  Why would, why would Charlie XCX be saying, I like Arby's? It would really help. And that is depicted so well in this movie. And it is funny, but it's also, it's not just a funny movie. It also felt like very much a snapshot of where we are right now. And I think people are always trying to depict a lot of movies about famous people and people going through fame. I thought this was the truest depiction I've seen in memory

• 45:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:15Conan O'Brien?

  of what it's really like.

• 45:18Speaker 03

  Right, because, yeah, it's like, thank you for saying all of that, by the way. It's so kind of you and you really got the film, which is great. Great news, great news.

• 45:29Conan O'Brien?

  You thought I was an idiot. And the car ride on the way over in your white Ford. Who is this idiot?

• 45:38Speaker 03

  That's why I wrote, I said nervous. Yeah, nervous.

• 45:40Conan O'Brien?

  And then he showed you a picture of my hair and you went, what is that?

• 45:45Speaker 03

  No, I mean, you know, you never know. You're so locked into the edit and you're like, are we insane? It feels clear to us. And then you're like, you know, whatever. Anyways, um, no, I, you're smart. You're really so smart. So that's great.

• 46:01Conan O'Brien?

  You know what I always say? Charlie, when someone likes my work, I say, you're smart.

• 46:07Speaker 03

  I know, I know, yeah, yeah.

• 46:08Conan O'Brien?

  And when someone has any problem with it, I say, you're an idiot!

• 46:12Speaker 03

  That's how I'm gonna do press for this film.

• 46:14Conan O'Brien?

  Man, who here is an idiot? You can show yourself out.

• 46:18Speaker 03

  It's gonna be really good.

• 46:19Conan O'Brien?

  You know what's really nice too is you have proven yourself a million times over with your abilities in music and as a performer. You're very funny.

• 46:29Speaker 03

  Oh, thanks, gosh.

• 46:31Conan O'Brien?

  No, no, but you really are. You're very funny and the way you play things because a lot of people think being funny is about saying a line in a funny way. And yeah, okay, that's true. But there's so much of it which is almost harder to do, which is reactions. And you're, so much of the movie is watching your face, watching what's happening to you. And you are the avatar for the audience. So we're watching it thinking, Jesus, Skarsgard's a weird guy. And other people are listening to him saying, well, he's a big deal and he's got a neck scarf. And yes, yeah, but you're, you're taking it in and you could, your face is, is, you

• 47:15Conan O'Brien?

  play the comedic moments really well. It was very funny.

• 47:18Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 47:18Conan O'Brien?

  And then I, I, someone turned me on to your movie reviews that you do. And I was reading your movie reviews, which you do on, what is it?

• 47:28Speaker 03

  Letterboxd.

• 47:29Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, Letterboxd. Okay, I'm cool. Letterboxd. What is it now? He said, putting on his glasses, this Letterboxd, young lady?

• 47:39Conan O'Brien?

  Go to your room.

• 47:43Conan O'Brien?

  You're like a complete unknown. You said, there are a lot of songs in this.

• 47:49Conan O'Brien?

  Moneyball, this isn't for British people. I love this one. Cause as you know, I did a thing once parodying, we did a film parodying Mad Max Fury Road and I was, his name's The Doof Warrior. He's the guy that hangs off the front of the truck in Mad Max Fury Road.

• 48:06Speaker 04

  You don't need to tell me, friend.

• 48:07Conan O'Brien?

  Playing the, yeah, playing the guitar that shoots flame.

• 48:09Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 48:10Conan O'Brien?

  Your review for that fantastic movie, is the guitarist dead? Hope so.

• 48:18Conan O'Brien?

  And I was just like, oh, okay. You're also a comedy writer, which isn't fair, because I've worked it out my whole life, and then you step out of a rave and do it, and do it really well, but I would think your sense of humor would, it's so important to your, to everything, it's so important to music and to just staying sane.

• 48:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's, yeah, I think it's like I have to take everything with a pinch of salt, but then at the same time, I'm also like an emotional wreck, and it's kind of like balancing the two things. And I think it's like, I try and approach like everything I do with, with kind of acknowledgement of both sides of my personality, whether that be, you know, making music, or doing press, or, you know, even the film itself. And I think that's an important part about the film, you know, it's like, and to go back to your point about it being what you feel is an accurate depiction of fame or

• 49:20Speaker 03

  success, or whatever the phrasing was that you used, it's like, it's so ridiculous, really, isn't it? Like, the world that we live in or encounter, it's, it's, it's like amazing and exciting, but it's also like pointless and ridiculous, and then also so rewarding sometimes. And sometimes I am the complete total villain, you know, and I think, and I don't just mean like in the, in the film, I mean like actually like in my life, in my world, like I can be a fucking nightmare sometimes, you know what I mean?

• 49:57Conan O'Brien?

  Let's hear about that.

• 49:59Speaker 03

  But it's, you know, it's like, and I think for me, it was really important that like, I, I wasn't sort of taking, I wasn't like landing in this kind of like, you know, like morally like perfect place at the end of the film, because that has not been my experience with working in the music industry, or my, it hasn't been my experience with fame. It's like, it's complex. Like, you don't always land in this place where you're like, and now I've like tied up all the loose ends, I was a great person, everybody loves Me and that's the end of the book like no it's like you hurt people you burn people you you like

• 50:38Speaker 03

  are really rude to your sweet manager on text one day and they're having probably the worst day ever but they're professional so they don't like say anything back you know and and you cancel a show you like whatever it is I don't I don't know but it's like it it's all so heightened and crazy and I hope that we we showed that in the film and I I hope that whilst I acknowledge I can be like that sometimes I also hope that I try and be like a nice person

• 51:11Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah

• 51:11Speaker 03

  You know I I hope that I wouldn't be the real person to ask about that but you know

• 51:16Conan O'Brien?

  No we've talked to people and you're a monster

• 51:20Conan O'Brien?

  that's just the way it is and I'm talking about the people right outside so you can let them go but yeah they have to go I won't tolerate that on your behalf no what I love is that

• 51:33Conan O'Brien?

  you in your work you've made it kind of a mission to tell girls and you're very you have a massive influence with young women to say I'm scruffy I say dumb shit sometimes I fall down because what's modeled for them often is perfection is fairy tale is perfect lighting is things that they can't possibly compete with no one can compete with and you have gone out of your way to I think be true to the you that's in a rave at four o'clock in the morning and it's do you know what I mean it's sweaty

• 52:17Conan O'Brien?

  and it's chaotic and you improvise some stuff and this went well but I just knocked that light over and smashed it and someone's gonna have to pay for that but it's not me I mean I think you've been very good about which I admire and you're not doing it to be a good person you're doing it because that's the way you see the world

• 52:37Speaker 03

  Absolutely

• 52:38Conan O'Brien?

  You're not saying oh I'm gonna do this good person thing you're doing it Because that's how you see things and that's how you see yourself and you want these young women to see you that way. So they can see themselves that way.

• 52:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, totally. I mean, and and look, it's like, I I would hope that, as I said, I am a good person to those who who meet me in, you know, in real life. But I didn't make, I didn't decide I wanted to make art to be a role model.

• 53:07Conan O'Brien?

  That's not where it comes.

• 53:10Speaker 03

  I should not be put in that category at all. Like, I don't want that responsibility. I don't think it is an artist's responsibility to be a role model. Like, I think opinions on that have have kind of changed. It's like, the relationship between fan and artist gets sort of closer and closer and closer. But I don't really subscribe to that belief personally. Um, and yeah, I think it's like, if I can show people that fucking up sometimes is actually fine, because we're all human and we all probably do it, even if we claim to not on the internet where we're being like our best, most curated versions of ourselves. Like, I think that's that's good because I would have loved to have seen that when I was younger.

• 53:52Speaker 03

  You know, but um, I also am probably gonna like mess up at that some point, at some point too, you know, it's like, that's just how it goes.

• 54:01Conan O'Brien?

  You know, I don't want to give anything away, but the um, the end of your movie, I have to be careful here because I I don't want to give it away, but it's, the end of your movie is you having to make a choice, um, a big choice about how you're gonna present yourself on stage. And I'm not gonna say what happens, but people are pressuring you to put on these, the kind of outfits we're used to seeing when someone does a world tour or a massive, you know, arena show, something. Uh, and and you're putting on these dresses and things that really aren't you, but people are saying, no, you gotta wear this because this is the next step. And I was thinking, was there any point where you were looking at any of those dresses thinking, this is actually, I really like this?

• 54:43Conan O'Brien?

  I think maybe you were. Okay. Okay. There's a green one you wear that I must have.

• 54:49Speaker 03

  Oh, gosh.

• 54:50Conan O'Brien?

  Because I've got to kill her ass. Well, come on, Sona, you've seen it.

• 54:56Speaker 03

  I have it, I can't find it.

• 54:58Conan O'Brien?

  I showed you pictures. I can't find it. I have no ass, famously. My ass was lost in a terrible accident years ago.

• 55:06Speaker 03

  You know, I gotta say, um, no, there wasn't. But there was actually like the opposite experience where I'm not sure if I'm, is this something I can say or not? But, um, you know.

• 55:17Conan O'Brien?

  We can always take it out if you can't say it.

• 55:19Speaker 03

  We'll find out. Um, but there is this, this moment actually where I'm, I'm sort of on the way to making the decision at the end of the film, where I'm kind of trying to decide like which, what show am I doing? And I'm in a rehearsal for this more traditional kind of show. And, um, on the day that we shot it, I'm, I'm wearing this, this outfit that is not something like I've ever worn before. It is green.

• 55:50Conan O'Brien?

  Oh, I know the outfit very well.

• 55:52Speaker 03

  You know, like green hair, green eyeshadow. And I'm up on wires. Um, and when we were shooting it, you know, I was up on wires, up and down for like most part of two days. But before I went up, my, my creative director in real life came over to me and she was like, are you okay? And I was like, uh, yeah, I think so. And she was like, you, you know, you look really, really lame right now.

• 56:22Speaker 03

  And then, and then, and I was like, really? I was like, really? And she was like, yeah. And then I cried. And then she cried. And she was like, you've never looked so uncool. And I was like, oh my God. And then the director, the director came over and was like, you ready to shoot? I was like, I fucking hate you.

• 56:42Conan O'Brien?

  That's great.

• 56:43Speaker 03

  And, and he was like, but this is the point, you know?

• 56:46Conan O'Brien?

  You know what's really funny? And, and I honestly don't think we're giving anything away because if I heard this, I'd be like, I have to see this movie. Doesn't give anything away because we won't tell you what happens. But it's a moment in the movie where you're getting some pressure to do the more traditional thing. And we always see pop artists up on, you know, wires. It's just they're spend more time up in the air than on the ground. And but what really made me was the visual that people have to see, which is they hoist you up. And you're in the mid air and you've got your your outfit on and your boots. And you're holding the microphone and you're just singing, but not doing any. So they just took you're doing the exact same thing you would be doing. You know, you're not moving.

• 57:26Speaker 03

  No.

• 57:27Conan O'Brien?

  It's not Cirque du Soleil. It's if they took a tax lawyer and hoisted them in the air and told them, now do the do your work. And you're just there saying, well, if I and that really made me laugh. There's so much stuff like that in the film.

• 57:42Speaker 03

  You know what I will say from shooting that scene? I got to say, I have so much respect for artists who do go up on wires. Because it is like really hard. It's really hard to look good and poised and effortless. Like it's so hard. Like I really was like at points, it's all got cut from the film. I was like really trying to look good and I kind of look like Sugarplum Fairy. It's like really, really hard to look like serene and gorgeous. It's so impossible. So respect to Pink and whoever else is doing all the flips and stuff is very hardcore.

• 58:18Conan O'Brien?

  No, no, it's amazing that people can do it and sing and move.

• 58:23Speaker 03

  Impossible.

• 58:24Conan O'Brien?

  Um, we should do the podcast sometime when it's the three of us.

• 58:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:27Conan O'Brien?

  Up on wire and then you can be our guest and we'll hoist you up. Yeah. And then we'll tell you, you look lame. You can wear that green dress. You'll tell us to fuck off.

• 58:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 58:35Conan O'Brien?

  It'll be a nice show. Um, Charlie, I am delighted, absolutely delighted to meet you. Uh, and just, uh, it's so funny because the thing that keeps inspiring me is people that are much younger than me. Uh, who are oftentimes in an art form that has that I maybe I don't understand that they're doing something completely different. But I see the same things over and over again, which is really. Really hardworking, true to themselves, disciplined, honest and brave. And I think, and I look at all those qualities and time and time again in history, those people do really great things and I get inspired. And you know, so I'm this geezer who's like, that's cool. I'm really glad you're out there.

• 59:20Conan O'Brien?

  I'm really glad that you're doing your work and doing it so beautifully. Love the film and please come back sometime because it's been an absolute joy talking to you.

• 59:30Speaker 03

  Oh, thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I had a great time.

• 59:33Conan O'Brien?

  Oh, good.

• 59:33Speaker 03

  And thank you.

• 59:33Conan O'Brien?

  All right, and we'll talk about this tax thing.

• 59:35Speaker 03

  Yes, perfect.

• 59:36Conan O'Brien?

  I think you're wasting your time in music. No, come on. She's good with numbers. I know she is.

• 59:51Conan O'Brien?

  You know, winning an award, that's a big achievement, right?

• 59:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:54Conan O'Brien?

  Every now and then in life, maybe something nice like that comes your way. Winning them consistently is almost impossible. It just doesn't happen, you know? Well, guess what? Winning five times in six years? You know what that sounds like to me? Sustained excellence.

• 1:00:08Speaker 01

  Nice.

• 1:00:08Conan O'Brien?

  Hyundai has done just that, earning the title of America's best SUV brand for 2026 from U S News and World Report. You are a very happy Hyundai driver.

• 1:00:17Speaker 01

  I drive a Hyundai Palisade and I love my car. I love it. I love driving it around.

• 1:00:21Conan O'Brien?

  I've been tooling around in an Ioniq 5 N, which I love. Beautiful car. Well, listen, whether you need an SUV for everyday life, your next big adventure or extra room for family and friends, Hyundai has an option for you. The Tucson Hybrid is loaded with technology and built for everyday life. The Santa Fe Hybrid is fully capable and ready for adventure. The Palisade, that's yours, right?

• 1:00:41Speaker 01

  Hello.

• 1:00:41Conan O'Brien?

  They're going to rename that the Sona. The Palisade Hybrid, yeah, delivers premium capability and class leading interior space. With available, I have this memorized, H-Track all wheel drive, up to an EPA estimated 619 miles of range on vehicles like the Palisade Hybrid and Hyundai's industry leading warranty. It's easy to see why Hyundai continues to deliver the quality, innovation, technology and value drivers expect from an award winning brand. View U S News Best Cars at cars.usnews.com and call 562-314-4603 for complete details.

• 1:01:16Conan O'Brien?

  This fall, I want to try something different.

• 1:01:18Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:01:18Conan O'Brien?

  I like to change it up. I like to learn things. So I'm going to try and make apple cider.

• 1:01:22Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 1:01:22Conan O'Brien?

  Every morning.

• 1:01:23Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:01:24Conan O'Brien?

  This fall, just to see if I can do it.

• 1:01:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:26Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, fall's the perfect season to try something new, like joining T-Mobile.

• 1:01:30Speaker 01

  Oh, that's good.

• 1:01:31Conan O'Brien?

  See what I did?

• 1:01:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:32Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, there are 250 reasons to join T-Mobile right now. You want to hear what they are?

• 1:01:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:36Conan O'Brien?

  They're America's best network.

• 1:01:37Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:01:38Conan O'Brien?

  True story. Plus, T-Mobile has got off-grid satellite coverage. That comes in really handy. I like to just wander in the woods sometimes.

• 1:01:45Speaker 01

  Oh, that's weird.

• 1:01:45Conan O'Brien?

  When I'm thinking about, like, making apple cider.

• 1:01:47Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:01:48Conan O'Brien?

  And that's when it comes in handy. Here's another reason. High-speed data in over 215 countries and destinations. I travel a lot for the

• 1:01:55Speaker 01

  You travel a lot.

• 1:01:55Conan O'Brien?

  travel show that I do.

• 1:01:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:57Conan O'Brien?

  Stream this podcast while ignoring local landmarks. That's always fun to do. Like, oh, look, there's the Mona Lisa. Yeah, check it out. I'm in the Louvre. I should, but I'm listening to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend.

• 1:02:07Speaker 01

  That doesn't seem like a good idea.

• 1:02:08Conan O'Brien?

  It's a great idea.

• 1:02:09Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:02:10Conan O'Brien?

  You know, you can see art anytime. But how often can you listen to this podcast?

• 1:02:15Speaker 01

  Oh, my god.

• 1:02:16Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:16Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:02:17Conan O'Brien?

  No, all these reasons make T-Mobile a great choice.

• 1:02:20Speaker 01

  I agree.

• 1:02:20Conan O'Brien?

  T-Mobile is stacking up reasons to join. Go to T-Mobile.com and find yours best, based on analysis by Ookla of speed test intelligence data first half of 2026. Can't believe I read that. T-Satellite with capable devices in most outdoor areas in the US, where you can see the sky. High-speed international data with qualifying plan. Visit T-Mobile.com. Consult a physician. I just threw that in there.

• 1:02:44Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:02:48Conan O'Brien?

  When you hear Alka-Seltzer, you probably think heartburn, right? Yep. Well, did you know Alka-Seltzer has a line of cold and flu medications known as Alka-Seltzer Cold? Ooh. Did you know that, David? No, but I feel like we need it. Why didn't you know that, David? I know. You expect me to know everything. I knew this. Did you? Yeah, I've tried it. It's really good. And I like that fizzy, fizzy, fizzy when you drop the Alka-Seltzer Cold into the water. You do, yeah. Alka-Seltzer Cold. Fast dissolves tablets are designed to deliver cold and flu relief fast. Just drop the two tablets in water and hear those bubbles bursting into action, ready to work faster than pills. Bubbles faster than pills. Pills take time to dissolve, not bubbles. Next time a cold or flu strikes, quick! Alka-Seltzer Cold. Nothing works faster for cold and flu symptom relief.

• 1:03:33Conan O'Brien?

  Among oral products used as directed.

• 1:03:43Speaker 04

  Okay, it's time for Review the Reviewers. This is where I go to Apple Podcasts. I pull out one of the just flowing sea of five star reviews.

• 1:03:51Conan O'Brien?

  Beautiful, beautiful.

• 1:03:52Speaker 04

  And we review it and then we review the review.

• 1:03:55Conan O'Brien?

  And I'd like to review you right now. You said review.

• 1:03:58Speaker 04

  Well, I, the audience won't know what I'm talking about. I will have cut that out.

• 1:04:01Conan O'Brien?

  I don't think so. I think you're gonna keep it in.

• 1:04:02Speaker 04

  I'll cut that out, but I'm gonna keep this part in.

• 1:04:04Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, better comedy. I would keep it in. It's good.

• 1:04:08Speaker 04

  I'm gonna cut all this out.

• 1:04:09Conan O'Brien?

  Okay.

• 1:04:10Speaker 04

  All right, this is from Calabria 86.

• 1:04:13Conan O'Brien?

  Okay.

• 1:04:13Speaker 04

  Sibling rivalry, five stars. Love, love, love the podcast. Conan, you, Sona and Matt have an infectious sibling rivalry. What do you think day to day life would have been like if you three were actually siblings and grew up together in the same house?

• 1:04:27Conan O'Brien?

  Oh, wow. Well, I don't think we even have to suppose what this would be because we know. We know. Yeah. I mean, to pick any period of history, pick any situation, anywhere in the world, the three of us living in a house day to day as siblings would be exactly what you think it is.

• 1:04:44Speaker 04

  Even as kids, would it be any worse or better?

• 1:04:48Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, I think it would be.

• 1:04:49Speaker 04

  Let's adjust the ages. So you're like two years older than me and I'm two years older than Sona.

• 1:04:53Conan O'Brien?

  Okay.

• 1:04:54Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:04:54Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, so there's just a two year gap between each of us. Am I the oldest?

• 1:04:57Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:04:57Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, still the oldest. Okay, so, well, I, I mean, my brother, Justin, could speak to this very well. I would be 24 seven bits. I would recruit him in bits. So I'd, I'd be recruiting both of you into my bits and making you participate against your will and.

• 1:05:18Speaker 04

  This would be a tough life to be born into.

• 1:05:20Conan O'Brien?

  It would be, it would be tough. Are we ourselves? Yes. In this scenario? Yes. And I would pummel the two of you on a daily basis.

• 1:05:26Speaker 04

  What did I do to you?

• 1:05:27Conan O'Brien?

  I, just because it's like you're an easy target. Yes. And I, you know, you're just gonna be like, I'm, you know, painting my.

• 1:05:34Speaker 01

  Figurines or whatever you're doing.

• 1:05:35Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, he has his figurines. Yeah.

• 1:05:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:37Conan O'Brien?

  You know, famous architects of the early 20th centuries, you know, and he's doing his little paintings of the figurines. Yeah, he would.

• 1:05:47Speaker 01

  So, yeah, I just, I'm just, you know, I'm gonna like kick him and I'm gonna beat you up. Cause I think that happened to me a lot and it made me a much tougher person. Like, my brother was bigger.

• 1:05:55Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:56Speaker 01

  And he, you know, he beat me up a lot. And so I would.

• 1:05:58Conan O'Brien?

  Beat him up?

• 1:05:59Speaker 01

  I tried. I fought back. I think if I had weaker people around me, I would beat them up. So I think I would just pummel the two of you.

• 1:06:07Conan O'Brien?

  Danny was just stronger than you. And I think he was a real nerd. He carried a briefcase around as a kid.

• 1:06:12Speaker 04

  I did not, and I know that's you.

• 1:06:13Conan O'Brien?

  We just gotta get the word out on that.

• 1:06:14Speaker 04

  I literally know that's you.

• 1:06:15Conan O'Brien?

  No, no, no. I know this for a fact that she showed, I did not carry a briefcase.

• 1:06:19Speaker 04

  You told me you had a briefcase when you were in college.

• 1:06:21Speaker 01

  You did have a briefcase. You said you did.

• 1:06:23Speaker 04

  When you were dating. On this podcast.

• 1:06:25Conan O'Brien?

  I know, but I was probably bullshitting. I did not have a briefcase.

• 1:06:27Speaker 01

  Okay. Well, my brother really wanted to work in finance for a really long time. And he had a briefcase.

• 1:06:32Conan O'Brien?

  Her brother had, Danny had a briefcase.

• 1:06:34Speaker 04

  You have said, right? He said on this podcast that he had a briefcase.

• 1:06:37Speaker 01

  I can't remember.

• 1:06:37Conan O'Brien?

  I don't know that I did have a briefcase. No.

• 1:06:39Speaker 01

  Every podcast we record.

• 1:06:41Conan O'Brien?

  We have to, cause that's, I don't think that's true. I would, and I would be the first to admit I had a briefcase. No.

• 1:06:46Speaker 04

  No, it's that you want, is it that you really wanted a briefcase? You've talked about a briefcase.

• 1:06:51Conan O'Brien?

  What I said is that I liked, I really loved office supplies. I love the ideas of having like a stamp. I love the ideas of having one of those pressy things that makes like a little medallion on the paper.

• 1:07:02Speaker 04

  An embosser.

• 1:07:02Conan O'Brien?

  An embosser.

• 1:07:03Speaker 01

  That's cooler.

• 1:07:03Conan O'Brien?

  I liked, no, no, I'm saying, I, I know this is terrible, but I really wanted an intercom where I could go like, hello, Louise. You know, put those, get those memos out. Uh, I loved that. My, my dream. When I was a little kid was to be a mid-level Soviet bureaucrat. So, your brother had a briefcase.

• 1:07:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:24Conan O'Brien?

  You showed me a picture once when you were all little kids and he's standing there, I think he's wearing one of your dad's suits. It's too big and he's holding a, a briefcase.

• 1:07:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, he does. He used to hold a briefcase. But then he got older and then he became a. Jock and he was a football player and he was like huge. He'd have to work out all the time. And so, you know, he would like, we would fight over the remote or whatever and things like that. So I got really tough because of him.

• 1:07:47Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:47Speaker 01

  And I feel like with you two as my siblings, you know, I just beat you up all the time.

• 1:07:52Conan O'Brien?

  But let's keep in mind, in this scenario, I'm two years older than you. I'm your older brother. You still think-

• 1:07:56Speaker 01

  You're four years older than me and I would still beat you up.

• 1:07:59Conan O'Brien?

  You'd still beat me up.

• 1:07:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:08:00Conan O'Brien?

  That's, that's, you know what? That scans.

• 1:08:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think so.

• 1:08:03Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah. I think he would beat me up.

• 1:08:04Speaker 04

  So I'm taking abuse from both sides.

• 1:08:06Conan O'Brien?

  Yes.

• 1:08:06Speaker 01

  You are. You're, you're, oh, you're-

• 1:08:08Conan O'Brien?

  First of all, I don't, I think you die after a year. I'm being honest. I think-

• 1:08:12Speaker 04

  I think I opened my veins in a warm bathtub. I don't wanna be in, living this life at all.

• 1:08:18Conan O'Brien?

  You open your veins in a bathtub, but we find you, bind you, and then, um, just, and then beat you.

• 1:08:24Speaker 04

  Cause I'm incapacitated and you just-

• 1:08:26Conan O'Brien?

  That's too good a way for you to go. But no, people are looking for you and then you're, you're found in a bog. What's left of you. They find your glasses floating on top of the water.

• 1:08:34Speaker 01

  I knew you'd be dead.

• 1:08:35Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:35Speaker 01

  We'd kill you so fast.

• 1:08:36Conan O'Brien?

  No, no, you'd be gone.

• 1:08:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:38Conan O'Brien?

  And then, uh, Sona and I, I think you would quickly realize this guy's going on to things. He's gonna monetize these bits. And so, you wouldn't want me dead because you'd know you can sponge off me the rest of your life, as you do now.

• 1:08:50Speaker 01

  I wouldn't want either of you dead. You're my siblings, right?

• 1:08:52Speaker 04

  Yeah, you sure love us.

• 1:08:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, sure. I, but I'll, I wanna, I'll fight you. That's how people show affection.

• 1:08:58Conan O'Brien?

  You know what? Even if we don't kill Gourley, he dies of like the milk sickness.

• 1:09:01Speaker 01

  I know. He's very weak.

• 1:09:02Conan O'Brien?

  He dies of some-

• 1:09:03Speaker 01

  I'm sorry, you are.

• 1:09:04Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, you'd get the rheumatism, you know? Oh, and you'd have braces. You'd have braces on your chest and your legs.

• 1:09:10Speaker 04

  I did have braces on my legs.

• 1:09:12Conan O'Brien?

  I know, I shouldn't laugh, but you know those braces you had? Make them out of a cruder material and that's what you would have in this scenario.

• 1:09:19Speaker 04

  Wicker.

• 1:09:20Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:20Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:09:21Conan O'Brien?

  But, uh, and then I do say after you're gone, we do feel badly and we go visit your grave for a little while.

• 1:09:26Speaker 01

  Just a little bit.

• 1:09:27Conan O'Brien?

  But then we move on, cause I'm a big deal.

• 1:09:28Speaker 04

  I've faked my death just to get away from you guys.

• 1:09:32Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:09:32Speaker 04

  And I'm living happily, happily anywhere.

• 1:09:35Conan O'Brien?

  You know what?

• 1:09:36Speaker 04

  Anywhere but here.

• 1:09:36Conan O'Brien?

  It's-

• 1:09:37Speaker 04

  Right now in this time that I'm not even joking, we're out of this role-playing scenario.

• 1:09:41Conan O'Brien?

  It's like the- It's like Tom Sawyer, Huck Finn. You're up in a tree, you fake your death, you're up in a tree, listening to your own eulogy. But then you fall out of the tree and you're killed.

• 1:09:53Speaker 04

  I fall right into the grave.

• 1:09:54Conan O'Brien?

  We roll you right into the grave, we've already dug. Yeah, we're like, ah, that works.

• 1:09:58Speaker 04

  I think what happens is I'm a ghost, I've got, I'm a CIA thing, I had to fake my death, I got multiple passports. I'm doing my own thing. I think we all know that's what's happening.

• 1:10:06Conan O'Brien?

  I think you die, you become a ghost, but then you're sickly as a ghost. Which has never happened before. Other ghosts are like, that's not supposed to happen. And then you die as a ghost.

• 1:10:17Speaker 04

  And I find a second level of ghost.

• 1:10:18Conan O'Brien?

  And become a more translucent ghost. And then you're still sick. And you can't, because the pathogen keeps getting spread.

• 1:10:26Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 1:10:27Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah. And then you're just a ghost that's wheezing and coughing and blowing your nose, as you are now, all the time.

• 1:10:33Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 1:10:33Conan O'Brien?

  And other ghosts are bullying you.

• 1:10:35Speaker 01

  I think it would be fun, do you think our parents would like constantly, like at dinners and stuff, they'd just, would our parents leave us?

• 1:10:41Speaker 04

  For good, yes.

• 1:10:42Speaker 01

  Right, that's what I mean.

• 1:10:43Conan O'Brien?

  I think the parents would move out. But then they'd, again, they'd have that hint that, that Conan guy, seems like he's monetizing this bit thing. We better just keep in touch, just to get some of that sweet scratch.

• 1:10:55Speaker 01

  But when you were a kid, no one was like, he's gonna monetize this. They were like...

• 1:10:59Conan O'Brien?

  Luke knew. Luke knew.

• 1:11:01Speaker 01

  Did he? Oh, that's cool.

• 1:11:02Conan O'Brien?

  No, he didn't know. He had an abacus. And he was figuring out.

• 1:11:07Speaker 01

  I think that what you do now, while you can monetize it now, back when you're a kid, it's like concerning.

• 1:11:13Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:11:14Speaker 01

  Right?

• 1:11:14Speaker 04

  They're thinking, they're gonna monetize this, and they're thinking, we need to institutionalize.

• 1:11:18Speaker 01

  Yes, that's what I mean.

• 1:11:19Conan O'Brien?

  But some of our best artists have been institutionalized, you know?

• 1:11:23Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:11:23Conan O'Brien?

  I just made that up, I don't think that's true.

• 1:11:25Speaker 01

  I know, I don't know if that is either.

• 1:11:27Conan O'Brien?

  Okay, well, I think we answered that question. And that was, review the reviewers.

• 1:11:34Speaker 04

  Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend, with Conan O'Brien, Sona Obsessian, and Matt Gourley. Produced by me, Matt Gourley. Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Nick Liao. Theme song by The White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy.

• 1:11:55Speaker 04

  Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Britt Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. You can also get three free months of SiriusXM when you sign up at siriusxm.com/conan. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.

• 1:12:44Conan O'Brien?

  Technology can generate salary recommendations in seconds, but building an offer that lands skilled talent, that takes more than just an estimate you came up with.

• 1:12:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're right.

• 1:12:54Conan O'Brien?

  That's where Robert Half's new 2027 Salary Guide can help.

• 1:12:58Speaker 01

  That's good.

• 1:12:58Conan O'Brien?

  Did we use a salary guide with you, Sona?

• 1:13:01Speaker 01

  No, but maybe-

• 1:13:02Conan O'Brien?

  For several years, I just gave you groceries, remember?

• 1:13:04Speaker 01

  I know, yeah, I remember that. That was not good.

• 1:13:07Conan O'Brien?

  Well, anyway, now you've got Robert Half's new 2027 Salary Guide. As a staffing firm placing talent every day, Robert Half combines compensation data with the experience of local recruiters. So you can hire with the confidence that comes from experience. The new Robert Half Salary Guide is here. Visit roberthalf.com/salaryguide.

• 1:13:28Conan O'Brien?

  When you hear Alka-Seltzer, you'll probably think heartburn, right?

• 1:13:31Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 1:13:31Conan O'Brien?

  Well, did you know Alka-Seltzer has a line of cold and flu medications known as Alka-Seltzer Cold? Did you know that, David?

• 1:13:39Speaker 05

  No, but I feel like we need it.

• 1:13:40Conan O'Brien?

  Why didn't you know that, David?

• 1:13:41Speaker 05

  I know, you expect me to know everything.

• 1:13:43Conan O'Brien?

  I knew this because I-

• 1:13:44Speaker 05

  Did you?

• 1:13:44Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, I've tried it, it's really good. And I like that fizzy, fizzy, fizzy when you drop the Alka-Seltzer Cold into the water. Alka-Seltzer Cold Fast Dissolves tablets are designed to deliver cold and flu relief fast. Just drop the two tablets in water and hear those bubbles bursting into action, ready to work faster than pills. Bubbles faster than pills. Pills take time to dissolve, not bubbles. Next time a cold or flu strikes, quick! Alka-Seltzer Cold, nothing works faster for cold and flu symptom relief. Among oral products used as directed.