Marc Maron Returns

Comedian and podcaster Marc Maron feels happy about being Conan O’Brien’s friend. Marc returns to sit down with Conan once more to discuss leading the podcast boom, late-night appearances in the early days, the pressure of texting with funny people, and the pleasures of growing older. For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit TeamCoco.com. Got a question for Conan? Call our voicemail: (669) 587-2847.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Conan O'Brien?

  Who do you shop for first on the holidays, Sona? Was it, do you shop for the kids or do you shop for Tac?

• 0:06Speaker 01

  My kids.

• 0:07Conan O'Brien?

  Okay.

• 0:07Speaker 01

  Or Oki.

• 0:08Conan O'Brien?

  You gotta get them their stuff.

• 0:08Speaker 01

  Or my dog.

• 0:09Conan O'Brien?

  And then your husband is last. Well, guess what? It's that time of year. You feel that, you smell that cinnamon cider in the air? Do you smell that?

• 0:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:19Conan O'Brien?

  And you see pumpkins around, people buying turkeys. A little early to buy a turkey. Doesn't matter. Holidays? I would say it's just around the corner, but that's a cliche. It's very nearby in the cupboard. Well, guess what? Amazon delivers joy with low prices on the gifts you want even this early in the season. So get ahead of the season. Shop early gifts, top picks, holiday decor, and advent calendars at low prices. Get ahead, start on holiday gifting with Amazon's low prices. Shop now at amazon.com/holiday.

• 0:52Speaker 02

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• 1:18Speaker 03

  Call 800-333-4KIA for details. Drive safely, see retailer for warranty details.

• 1:26Conan O'Brien?

  Hi, I'm Marc Maron and I feel

• 1:31Conan O'Brien?

  happy about being Conan O'Brien's friend. Jesus, said like a true hostage. Said like a true hostage with a gun at his back.

• 2:03Conan O'Brien?

  Hey there and welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend. This is a little bit of a special episode. Let me give you some context. I was in New York City recently. I was at Sirius XM and I was doing some stuff over there and helping out, just going over the books, mostly. Yeah, I do a lot of accounting there.

• 2:24Speaker 04

  That's

• 2:25Conan O'Brien?

  It's a bad use of Conan O'Brien because I don't, I really don't know accounting very well at all.

• 2:30Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:31Conan O'Brien?

  The company is hemorrhaging, hemorrhaging money. Very risky. I've cost them a fortune. But I was over at the building and I heard, hey, this gentleman is here, Marc Maron. He's, I just saw him in the lobby and I had just read that Marc Maron was signing off from his podcast, the one that really started it all. And I said, I want to talk to Marc because we have a lot of history together. And so someone just walked down the hallway and said, hey, Mark. And he very graciously said, yes. And the next thing I know, I'm sitting in a studio with Marc Maron and we had a really nice hang. So this is my chat with Marc Maron that happened, it was kind of a, it was a happening, if you want to call it that.

• 3:16Conan O'Brien?

  It just was spur of the moment.

• 3:17Speaker 04

  That's podcasting, man.

• 3:19Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, that's podcasting, man. That's right. Barebacking it, you know?

• 3:22Speaker 04

  That's podcasting, yeah.

• 3:23Conan O'Brien?

  Wait, no? Ross, you were so close.

• 3:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:26Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, raw dogging it, that's right. Just two podcasters raw dogging it. The might, what's the matter? No, no, you've got it, keep going. You've got it. No, no, don't, don't look at that. Adam is making, Adam is making these He's got it, right. Are you okay?

• 3:38Speaker 05

  I'm just disgusted, that's all, but yeah, fine.

• 3:42Conan O'Brien?

  I felt like he was gonna throw up.

• 3:44Speaker 04

  Yeah. Don't listen to him, don't listen to him. Keep going.

• 3:46Conan O'Brien?

  Anyway, two podcasters having a good time. Of course, the Marc Maron, you know, the granddaddy of them all and me, the little upstart, but it was fun. So my guest today is a comedian who's aired a defining podcast, WTF, with Marc Maron, is coming to an end after 16 years this fall. I'm excited to chat with him today. I wonder what he's gonna do now? Maybe he's got a Angela Lansbury, you know, talk down show where they go over old episodes of Murder She Wrote.

• 4:15Speaker 04

  Murder She Wrote?

• 4:15Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 4:16Speaker 04

  That sounds pretty good to me, actually.

• 4:17Conan O'Brien?

  I think, can you imagine Mark doing that?

• 4:19Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 4:21Conan O'Brien?

  What the fuck?

• 4:27Conan O'Brien?

  Marc Maron, welcome.

• 4:32Conan O'Brien?

  I gotta talk to you about something.

• 4:33Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 4:34Conan O'Brien?

  This isn't happening.

• 4:34Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 4:35Conan O'Brien?

  Because I'm here at Sirius XM in New York and look down the hall and I see, uh, there's Marc Maron and I bully you into talking to me because I have some things to say to you.

• 4:44Speaker 06

  Well, I, I appreciate that. I did feel bullied, but we have a long history.

• 4:49Conan O'Brien?

  We do.

• 4:49Speaker 06

  And I thought, well, you know, this is not different than it's ever been.

• 4:52Conan O'Brien?

  No.

• 4:53Speaker 06

  So I'll do whatever Conan needs me to do.

• 4:55Conan O'Brien?

  Yes, you'll do as you are told.

• 4:57Speaker 06

  Yes, I will.

• 4:58Conan O'Brien?

  Couple of things. First of all, the other day, it pops up on every screen I have that Marc Maron is saying goodbye to his podcast. And I thought, Jesus, he invented this. So I need to talk to him about it because...

• 5:13Speaker 06

  I'm an empty nester now. All you guys have gone on to do great things and you don't need me anymore.

• 5:18Conan O'Brien?

  Uh, well, you invented this. You were doing a podcast when no one knew what a podcast was. And you were the, you invented it. And I remembered when Barack Obama, a sitting US president, went to your house to do your podcast. And I thought, you've broken through some barrier. And we had a history before that.

• 5:37Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 5:38Conan O'Brien?

  Which is, when I was first doing the Late Night Show at dark times, 90, I mean, I was loving doing it, but we were gonna get canceled any minute. And you, you know, a lot of people, the word was out, don't do that show, it won't be on long.

• 5:53Speaker 06

  Were they? Not comics. We were already.

• 5:55Conan O'Brien?

  Well, there were plenty of people, including NBC, that were willing to, uh, write my death certificate. And you would consistently come on and you would panel. You would just sit with me.

• 6:06Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 6:07Conan O'Brien?

  And it was always the same pattern. You would come out and I don't think people, you know, it's not that people knew who you were then.

• 6:14Speaker 06

  No, they didn't.

• 6:15Conan O'Brien?

  They didn't. Okay.

• 6:15Speaker 06

  Most of them still don't.

• 6:17Conan O'Brien?

  And guess what? They don't know, they didn't know who I was. They were coming to see Late Night with Conan O'Brien and they weren't sure who this kid was. But I would say, my next guest, I'd say, Marc Maron. And you would come out. And so the crowd doesn't know who you are. You'd sit down and it was fascinating to me. You would dig a hole. Marc Maron would dig a hole, crowd not, like, not, they started out new. You would dig a hole where they're like, I don't like this. I don't know what he's, who is this man?

• 6:40Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 6:40Conan O'Brien?

  What is he talking about? And you would comment on how you had dug a hole.

• 6:44Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 6:44Conan O'Brien?

  Which is a rule that, you know, the great artists, I think, break the rules. The classic rule is never tell people this isn't working.

• 6:50Speaker 06

  I know Freddie Roman once said to me, never admit you're bombing.

• 6:53Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah. And so you were out there talking about on, on my panel. Ah, this isn't working. I shouldn't have come. I don't know why I'm here. And, and, and telling the audience that, and then I'd hear laughter, more laughter, more laughter, and you would kill. So you always did this thing where you would dig yourself into a hole and then come out of it and shoot out of it like this geyser. It was a roller coaster ride.

• 7:16Speaker 06

  That was the architecture of my life.

• 7:18Conan O'Brien?

  Yes.

• 7:20Speaker 06

  I would say for the first 30 years, I dug a pretty good hole.

• 7:24Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 7:25Speaker 06

  And then just by cosmic timing and coincidental talent, you know, it worked out. But I was talking about this to somebody recently about doing the appearances on your show.

• 7:35Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 7:36Speaker 06

  In that, you know, that was the, I was talking to Richter, because I did his podcast last week.

• 7:40Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 7:41Speaker 06

  And I said, that was the pattern that you and I established, but what people don't know is that I was really trying in that first minute. I didn't, I didn't go out there saying every time that like, oh, good, I'm going to do that thing I do. Where I alienate the audience completely right when I get out there to try to get them back. I went out there wanting that first joke to work every time.

• 8:02Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 8:03Speaker 06

  It just did not.

• 8:04Conan O'Brien?

  It did not.

• 8:04Speaker 06

  And then it became a thing.

• 8:05Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 8:06Speaker 06

  I think I generally come in hot and, you know, and I, and I, I always knew that they didn't really know me. And I always wanted to just, the reason I always wanted to do panel with you is because when I watched Letterman coming up as a kid. I always liked, I liked Richard Lewis and I liked Jay Leno. The guys that did panel to me, that was more interesting.

• 8:23Conan O'Brien?

  Yes.

• 8:24Speaker 06

  So very quickly I tried to, you know, get into that relationship with you. And then it happened, you know, I think because we had a good rapport, but also because. I was very easy to book on a short notice.

• 8:36Conan O'Brien?

  Oh, we would, you know, we would get you when Al Roker dropped out.

• 8:41Speaker 06

  That's right.

• 8:41Conan O'Brien?

  And Paula would call me and be like, look, what are you doing tomorrow? No, she would say, what are you doing in an hour? And, and you would come by and, and it worked. And this is what happened. People started watching the show. Our show started to gradually find itself and you had been there all along. And then what we said to all comics is, you know, short of it being a Jerry Seinfeld or some, you know, iconic comic, you have to come out and you have to, you do your set.

• 9:09Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 9:10Conan O'Brien?

  And then maybe you get, you come over for some quick panel.

• 9:13Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 9:13Conan O'Brien?

  You didn't do that from the beginning. You only came out really and sat with me. And so comics started to say, I don't want to do a set. I just want to come out and sit there with Conan. And we'd say, yeah, no, you have to do a set. And it'd say, but what about Marc Maron? And I would say, that's different. That's Marc Maron. He and I have a thing.

• 9:33Speaker 06

  We're trying to help Mark.

• 9:34Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 9:37Speaker 06

  You're doing fine.

• 9:38Conan O'Brien?

  It was a program and we got, we got federal funding, uh, which is no longer available. But, um, then you go off, you do the podcast, you kind of, I mean, you're the, you're the George Washington figure.

• 9:51Speaker 06

  But what was funny about that though, was like, when I started doing this podcast, my podcast, a lot of the guys I'd known for years, no one knew what a podcast was. So the general idea was I'm like, I'm going to do this podcast. And I think most people were like, well, that's, that's sad. I guess he's just going to set up a mic in his garage, but at least he's doing something. You know, like the opinion of it was it was not, it didn't exist on the media landscape. People would come out to my house and a lot of them would be like, I don't even know what neighborhood this is.

• 10:19Conan O'Brien?

  Right.

• 10:20Speaker 06

  You know, and, and people would come, like, I remember Cranston came out early on and he's like, where am I? And I'm like, well, it's, it's going to be fine. And John Hamm was on, he's like, oh, Hamm did it? Okay. Like nobody, we were there and the business sort of built up around us. And now it's like, uh, it's, it's like cancer.

• 10:38Conan O'Brien?

  Rapidly spreading and destroying the organism around it. I think you're right. The cancer analogy is a good one. And I think I'm a fast growing cancer.

• 10:47Speaker 06

  Which is good. You know, content is good. You know, malignant content, better.

• 10:51Conan O'Brien?

  All of us owe you a debt of gratitude because I have found, especially in this stage of my career, I loved all the other stuff I did and because of you, this forum exists where I can do something that I find incredibly satisfying.

• 11:04Speaker 06

  Totally.

• 11:04Conan O'Brien?

  Because I can have these conversations with people that are very different from the world that we were working together in, in the early 90s.

• 11:15Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 11:15Conan O'Brien?

  Was, was up in Mark Maron.

• 11:19Conan O'Brien?

  And I know that I've got five minutes.

• 11:22Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 11:23Conan O'Brien?

  And we've got five minutes for you to, for the whole arc to happen.

• 11:26Speaker 06

  And I spent an hour and a half on the phone with Frank Smiley.

• 11:29Conan O'Brien?

  Frank Smiley, shout out to Frank.

• 11:31Speaker 06

  Saying, yeah, yeah, what else you got?

• 11:32Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 11:33Speaker 06

  Yeah, what else? That's good.

• 11:34Conan O'Brien?

  Frank Smiley, a single producer who, uh, who still works with me and he's, I'm gonna say this, one of the all time greats.

• 11:43Speaker 06

  The greatest.

• 11:44Conan O'Brien?

  He is knows, he knows comedy back and forth and he is, he was such a part of the DNA of the early late night show.

• 11:52Speaker 06

  What was crazy about it was like, the way it worked was, you know, he do, he pre-produced a segment, like, you know, what am I gonna talk about? So I get on the phone with him and I'd just be pacing around my apartment in New York, sweating, you know, telling him ideas, telling him bits that were kinda working. A lot of times I'd go on with a funny enough thing that became a bigger thing lately, but I would spend an hour and a half and all, I would just rant and just deliver and then you just hear Frank go, uh, yeah, what else you got?

• 12:19Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 12:20Speaker 06

  And then like, you know, after spending an hour and a half, he goes, all right, I'll put something together. So I didn't even know, by the time I got to the show, he'd hand me like, this is what I got. And he transcribed the conversation. I'm like, this is too much? You know, and it was all very exciting.

• 12:32Conan O'Brien?

  Well, he, um, Frank, early on and to this day, has no problem saying, what are you doing? To me. And, uh, no, no, that's not right. You know, and, um, he gets worked up, but he's right. Right, often, and I'm gonna say most, 98% of the time, he's right, and when he's wrong, it's spectacular.

• 12:53Speaker 06

  We used his dad on a bit, when I did that talk show on the street bit.

• 12:56Conan O'Brien?

  Yes, yeah.

• 12:57Speaker 06

  His dad, like, it was so sad because, like, Frank was just setting his dad up. It was me on the street, I said, "I wanna be a talk show host," so we set it up on the street, and we're just interviewing people coming by, and Frank had brought his dad in. And, you know, his dad didn't know what he was doing, so his dad goes, "What do you want me to do?" And Frank says, "Tell that story that you tell, just so I could look bored."

• 13:16Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 13:17Speaker 06

  So his dad's just doing this story that he's been telling for years, and I'm just sitting there like this, and his dad didn't know what was going on, it was a complete setup, it was pretty funny.

• 13:24Conan O'Brien?

  I think, uh, to this day, huge stars, I'll run into them, and they did the show over the years, and the first thing they say to me is, "Get that Frank Smiley, is he still with you?" Because he made an impression. Sometimes, I mean, they all give him credit for making, uh, him look funny, um, him or her make look funny, but they will invariably say, "That fucking guy drove me crazy." And he is a guy who, to this day, if, like, if Seinfeld had been on the show,

• 13:52Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 13:53Conan O'Brien?

  was gonna be on the show, he would've said, "What else he got?" You know, like, "That's Jerry Seinfeld, that's gonna kill." "Ah, you can do better."

• 14:06Conan O'Brien?

  Owning a car or home comes with responsibilities. Sure, it's fun, but sometimes it makes you wonder why you ever longed for adulthood in the first place. I do that all the time, I'm like, "Oh, these bills, these bills, what am I gonna do?"

• 14:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:18Conan O'Brien?

  You know, when you own a house, you gotta fix it yourself, a sauna.

• 14:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:21Conan O'Brien?

  You, you see this to be true, right?

• 14:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, your garage door breaks, and you're like, "Well, I have to fix it."

• 14:26Conan O'Brien?

  Probably at first, you said, "Hey, I'll get the super to fix it, it's your house, dude."

• 14:29Speaker 01

  It's mine, dude!

• 14:31Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah. Liberty Mutual customizes your car and home insurance to save you money. In fact, they work overtime to tailor your insurance policy around what you actually need. The only thing they can't do is get that Liberty, Liberty, Liberty, Liberty jingle out of your head.

• 14:43Speaker 01

  Liberty, Liberty, Liberty.

• 14:45Conan O'Brien?

  It's in my head all the time.

• 14:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, me too.

• 14:47Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah. Start your quote at libertymutual.com.

• 14:53Conan O'Brien?

  This fall, I want to try something different.

• 14:55Speaker 07

  What?

• 14:56Conan O'Brien?

  I like to change it up. I like to learn things. So I'm going to try and make apple cider.

• 14:59Speaker 07

  Ooh.

• 15:00Conan O'Brien?

  Every morning.

• 15:01Speaker 07

  Okay.

• 15:01Conan O'Brien?

  This fall, just to see if I can do it.

• 15:03Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 15:03Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, fall's the perfect season to try something new, like joining T-Mobile.

• 15:07Speaker 07

  Oh, that's good.

• 15:08Conan O'Brien?

  See what I did?

• 15:09Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 15:09Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, there are 250 reasons to join T-Mobile right now. You want to hear what they are?

• 15:13Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 15:13Conan O'Brien?

  They're America's best network.

• 15:15Speaker 07

  Okay.

• 15:15Conan O'Brien?

  True story. Plus, T-Mobile has got off-grid satellite coverage. That comes in really handy. I like to just wander in the woods sometimes.

• 15:22Speaker 07

  Oh, that's weird.

• 15:23Conan O'Brien?

  When I'm thinking about, like, making apple cider.

• 15:25Speaker 07

  Oh.

• 15:25Conan O'Brien?

  And that's when it comes in handy. Here's another reason. High-speed data in over 215 countries and destinations. I travel a lot for the

• 15:32Speaker 07

  You travel a lot.

• 15:33Conan O'Brien?

  travel show that I do.

• 15:33Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 15:34Conan O'Brien?

  Stream this podcast while ignoring local landmarks. That's always fun to do. Like, oh, look, there's the Mona Lisa. Yeah, check it out. I'm in the Louvre. I should. But I'm listening to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend.

• 15:44Speaker 07

  That doesn't seem like a good idea.

• 15:46Conan O'Brien?

  It's a great idea.

• 15:47Speaker 07

  Okay.

• 15:47Conan O'Brien?

  You know, you can see art anytime. But how often can you listen to this podcast?

• 15:52Speaker 07

  Oh, my god.

• 15:53Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah. Now, all these reasons make T-Mobile a great choice.

• 15:57Speaker 07

  I agree.

• 15:57Conan O'Brien?

  T-Mobile is stacking up reasons to join. Go to tmobile.com and find yours best, based on analysis by UCLA of Speed Test Intelligence data first half of 2026. Can't believe I read that. T-satellite with capable devices in most outdoor areas in the US, where you can see the sky. High-speed international data with qualifying plan. Visit tmobile.com. Consult a physician. I just threw that in there.

• 16:22Speaker 07

  Oh.

• 16:25Conan O'Brien?

  Coca-Cola Zero Sugar is so good, it's almost impossible not to finish it before the meal arrives. It's just too good to wait. That happens to me sometimes.

• 16:34Speaker 07

  Me, too.

• 16:34Conan O'Brien?

  You can try rules like no sipping until the appetizer arrives, or you tell your friend, "Don't let me touch my glass." But every time, you're staring at an empty glass. So if you've ever finished your Coke Zero before the first fry hits the table, you're among friends.

• 16:48Speaker 07

  Hmm.

• 16:48Conan O'Brien?

  It happens.

• 16:49Speaker 07

  Mm-hmm.

• 16:50Conan O'Brien?

  Occupational hazard with Coke Zero.

• 16:52Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 16:52Conan O'Brien?

  Real Coca-Cola taste, zero sugar, too good to wait. Enjoy an ice cold Coca-Cola Zero Sugar today.

• 17:00Speaker 08

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• 17:35Speaker 06

  I remember one time I was on your show, and I was the second guest after Trump, and...

• 17:40Conan O'Brien?

  Who I, by the way, early on knew was a great comic.

• 17:44Speaker 06

  Yeah, totally great. Good comedic choice. But the funny thing was, is I remember it because I was in the hallway, I was at 30 Rock in my dressing room, and Frank came in and goes, "You want to meet Trump?" And I'm like, "Nah, I'm good."

• 17:56Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 17:58Speaker 06

  And then I took a shot at him when he went out, because it was an appearance where, for some reason, he was playing with a condom.

• 18:03Conan O'Brien?

  No, no. What happened was, he was sitting next to me, and we were talking, and I just said, uh... This is like he's promoting The Apprentice, I think.

• 18:11Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 18:11Conan O'Brien?

  And it's an NBC show, so here comes Trump. And I remembered saying to him, "So you're a billionaire? How much money do you carry on you at any one time?" And he went, "I don't know, I don't know, I don't know." "Come on, how much money do you have on your pocket right now?" And then I reached over into his blazer pocket

• 18:25Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 18:26Conan O'Brien?

  and felt something, and he put his hand over my hand really quickly, like, "Don't pull that out."

• 18:29Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 18:30Conan O'Brien?

  We had like a quick tug of war, and I pulled it out, and it was a condom. And he said, "Save sex, everybody." And it was a real moment. And then we go to commercial, I go, "Okay, Donald Trump, everybody. A reality show host, and he'll never go on to anything else after that." And, um...

• 18:48Speaker 06

  You're always very prescient.

• 18:50Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, very prescient, yeah. And he, he was mad. He was like, "I'm not fucking coming on this show again, goddamn it." I don't, you know, and he told my producer, "You don't reach into a guy's pocket," and stuff like that. But then, you know, literally, I don't know, it was a cut to three months later. Ladies and gentlemen, Donald Trump!

• 19:05Speaker 06

  Well, I remember I came out and I said, why is Donald Trump carrying his own condoms? Don't prostitutes usually have them with them? And then I said, I'll probably end up dead in the East River.

• 19:14Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, yeah, still could, actually.

• 19:17Speaker 06

  Yeah, just I'm saying that now, I brought it back up and he'll be like, oh, yeah. I remember that.

• 19:21Conan O'Brien?

  Why are we rekindling this now of all, you know, we're just gonna be.

• 19:24Speaker 06

  Because we want a little heat.

• 19:26Conan O'Brien?

  We'll be shot by snipers. But, yeah, I love our intertwined arc together, going back to 93, all through the years. And then, you know, it's now, one of the wonderful things about just lasting or sticking around long enough is that I've had the experience of, oh, at the last minute, Marc Maron will fit in, and then I'm watching you in an amazing movie doing scenes with Robert De Niro. And I'm like, this is the wonderful thing about life, if you take the time to appreciate the wonderful little curly cues that happen, and you see people that persevere and stay true to themselves, and I know that you had years of, I don't think this is working, I

• 20:11Conan O'Brien?

  don't think anybody's buying you this, certainly I had moments like that.

• 20:14Speaker 06

  50 appearances on your show, I think, was the arc of those years.

• 20:18Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, but it was.

• 20:19Speaker 06

  You guys were keeping me afloat. I mean, it was kind of crazy, I just could not, and I know what you're saying, and I think that there is a bit of goodwill for me, like, because I imagine there, people aren't always thinking about me, but I imagine there was a period there when my name would come up and they'd be like, yeah, I hope it works out.

• 20:38Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah. Well, I think the nice thing is, I have a lot of appreciation now. It's nice to see, and I guess I'll say this in a shorter way, getting older is treated negatively by a lot of people, they don't want to get older, they hate, and I think, not only am I chilling out just a little bit, but when you can see the whole picture, or two thirds, I hope, of the picture, it's really great, because you can appreciate, you know, we just had Bob Odenkirk on, and I was with Bob in the trenches in 1988.

• 21:11Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 21:12Conan O'Brien?

  And we were very lowest, lowest, you know, rung. On the totem pole at Saturday Night Live and now, you know, he's beating people up in action movies and I'm like,

• 21:21Speaker 06

  That's crazy.

• 21:21Conan O'Brien?

  And I think this is the same thing, which is it's really, I so enjoy watching people that I connected with, who I like, having these, I mean, you've did it yourself, you willed it to happen. We all know some luck's involved. I've benefited from crazy amounts of luck, but to just to watch all that happen for you and is a beautiful thing.

• 21:45Speaker 06

  Well, thank you.

• 21:45Conan O'Brien?

  And that's why I said, like, I grabbed Mark against his will. I know he's got a lot going on today, but make him talk to me so I can just tell him how much I appreciate you invented this form. You did such a lovely thing for all of us. It's a mitzvah, as the Irish say. I thank you for it and I thank you for being out there with me in the early days of late night.

• 22:05Speaker 06

  Well.

• 22:06Conan O'Brien?

  When it was rough sledding.

• 22:07Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 22:08Conan O'Brien?

  And I knew this is going to be a roller coaster ride, but Marc Maron's going to make it happen. And you always did.

• 22:14Speaker 06

  Thank you so much. It means a lot to hear that. And, you know, certainly you were definitely part of my, a big part of my life for a lot of years. You know, doing that show, you know, three or four times a year.

• 22:25Conan O'Brien?

  Three or four times a week.

• 22:26Speaker 06

  Yeah. But it made a big difference.

• 22:28Conan O'Brien?

  Once again, Marc Maron. Wait, he was on earlier in the show.

• 22:33Speaker 06

  No, but it was like, I didn't have a lot going on then.

• 22:35Conan O'Brien?

  I know, and now I just talked to him in the hallway and I said, can I talk to you for just a second? He went, yeah, yeah. There's a documentary about me. There's also a Broadway show about my life. And then I have to go get an international peace prize. And I'm like, okay, I will not stop you.

• 22:48Speaker 06

  Yeah. Yeah, they canceled my Mark Twain thing, so.

• 22:53Speaker 06

  I want to, I want to.

• 22:54Conan O'Brien?

  It's going to a ventriloquist next year.

• 22:55Speaker 06

  I wanted to share this with you, with Bob Odenkirk.

• 22:58Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 22:59Speaker 06

  Because he had a heart attack in Albuquerque, which is where I grew up. And I texted him, you know, afterwards, and we actually had lunch when he was out there, when he was shooting Better Call Saul. And because he went to the hospital where my dad used to work, but I was texting with him and he said, so, he was so funny. I said, glad you're okay. It's scary. It's Maron. And this is after he had the heart attack. And he texted back, super scary, Mark. I basically died for a little while and I have to say, I saw nothing. Yeah, but this crew with the, but this great crew with some amazing people kept me going. And then the hospital did a great job with some challenging surgery. I hope you're doing great. I'm feeling good. Take care. And then I said, glad my hometown hospital was there for you. Welcome back from the nothing. And then he says again, this is why he's so fucking funny.

• 23:45Speaker 06

  He goes, big time, excellent docs and nurses at Presbyterian on the ball. I'm doing great. By the way, I saw exactly no light when I was.

• 23:54Conan O'Brien?

  Let me repeat.

• 23:55Speaker 06

  No light when I was dead. It's the whole heaven thing is a hoax. Follow the money.

• 24:06Conan O'Brien?

  Follow the money. That's fantastic.

• 24:09Speaker 06

  It's the best.

• 24:10Conan O'Brien?

  Well, that's a great, I mean, people need to hear this. We need to get this word out there.

• 24:14Speaker 06

  So funny. Funny guys are the best. Funny people are the best. Especially if you text them, oh my God. You ever get in a group text with other funny people and you're like, I'm not going to be able to keep up with this shit?

• 24:26Conan O'Brien?

  Oh.

• 24:27Speaker 06

  Are you trying to like, what can I say that's funny? And there's already three texts have gone by and you're like, damn it, missed my window.

• 24:33Conan O'Brien?

  Oh, it's, and it starts to feel pressure.

• 24:34Speaker 06

  A total pressure.

• 24:35Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 24:36Speaker 06

  I'm on a, like occasionally I'm in one with like Mulaney and Kroll.

• 24:40Conan O'Brien?

  Yep, yep.

• 24:40Speaker 06

  Dan Levy and Jeselnik and Chelsea Peretti. I'm like, I, I just want to be out of this. It's too much pressure.

• 24:47Conan O'Brien?

  I'm in one that has all these people in it and I watch all these fireworks go by and, and they'll also their references.

• 24:54Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 24:55Conan O'Brien?

  They'll be talking about some really incredibly obscure commercial that Telly Savalas was in in 1978 for a mochaccino drink.

• 25:04Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 25:05Conan O'Brien?

  And they're all doing, they all know exactly all the references and I feel, my feeling is that it's when a blade is turning very slowly. I can get my, I can put my hand on the blade and kind of get into the motion of it. But if it's spinning.

• 25:19Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 25:19Conan O'Brien?

  On puree.

• 25:20Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 25:20Conan O'Brien?

  And I put my hand in, I'm going to get chopped to pieces and that's what it looks like. And I just, I just watch.

• 25:25Speaker 06

  Your, your text gets no ha ha's, you know, no explanation points.

• 25:29Conan O'Brien?

  You know what I've learned? You can put your own haha on your text.

• 25:32Speaker 06

  You do that all the time.

• 25:34Conan O'Brien?

  What do I do? Tell them.

• 25:34Speaker 06

  He always laughs to his own texts.

• 25:36Conan O'Brien?

  No, and I do it on purpose to be a dick.

• 25:38Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 25:39Conan O'Brien?

  But I'll write something with Tisona or to you and then I'll write after, and then I'll put on my thing, ha ha. And you guys are like, you can't fucking do that.

• 25:47Speaker 06

  No.

• 25:47Conan O'Brien?

  And then I'll get, I'll say, yes, I can, and then put a ha ha on that. What's stopping you? Why not?

• 25:53Speaker 06

  We're, we lived through it all.

• 25:56Speaker 06

  The, the other.

• 25:59Conan O'Brien?

  Laughing your own texts, people. Ha ha yourself.

• 26:01Speaker 06

  You only go around once. Follow the money.

• 26:03Conan O'Brien?

  There is no light. There's no light.

• 26:06Speaker 06

  But the thing you're saying about aging is, is, is true. And I think what's a great thing for you is that to, to be able to loosen up and to be able to just have these conversations on your own terms and, and be engaged and, and enjoy people in that way is, is a great thing about life. And I think so many of us were in such a wheel of not just success, but like being funny, doing a great thing, doing a great show, that you don't have any time for this. And then as you get older, all of a sudden, you know, you give less of a fuck.

• 26:35Conan O'Brien?

  Yes.

• 26:36Speaker 06

  And, and, and it's not even on purpose. You just are able to look back at your life and not with regret, but, but really realizing just how crazy you made yourself for so long.

• 26:48Conan O'Brien?

  I think about this a lot. My twenties, my thirties, my forties and into my fifties. I would say it started, but it started to peter out and I was, and then,

• 27:00Conan O'Brien?

  I just started to think, but, but during those years I was so intense, so hard on myself, constantly, constantly, uh, working real hard, tunnel vision. And then, um, you know, I, I credit my wife for helping me a lot and I credit just going through life and meeting really good people. But I, but I, I thought that I had just found wisdom. And I was telling this to my, uh, to, to my mother-in-law, Pam, who's a very smart woman. And, um, and I was talking to her and I said, you know, as I get older, I really think I found this wisdom.

• 27:41Conan O'Brien?

  And she said, uh, your testosterone levels dropped. Uh, that's what happened. And I went, oh.

• 27:47Speaker 06

  Really? I thought it was humility.

• 27:49Conan O'Brien?

  I thought it was humility and that I had, I, I thought that I had found like the, the true face of like spirituality and I got into the flow. And she said, no, no, no, testosterone levels plummet in men. Uh, and so you're, now you have very little testosterone left. Um, your penis is just, just a little nub now. And, um, and so you're just.

• 28:07Speaker 06

  Enjoy your downtime.

• 28:08Conan O'Brien?

  Enjoy.

• 28:11Conan O'Brien?

  Enjoy your life as an asexual being.

• 28:13Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 28:14Conan O'Brien?

  And, uh, and, and whatever it is, I, uh, I don't think I would have appreciated this format twenties, thirties, forties. And I think I'm so lucky that it exists now because I have, I like to have these conversations. I couldn't have them if you hadn't invented this thing. It would not have happened. So I'm very appreciative.

• 28:35Speaker 06

  Thank you.

• 28:35Conan O'Brien?

  But, um, for years, I realized the trick in late night is to try and figure, and it took me a long time to figure out, how do I appear relaxed and casual in a completely insane environment?

• 28:48Speaker 06

  Well, that's, that's.

• 28:49Conan O'Brien?

  This isn't, this is a sane environment. You and I are sitting with each other, we're talking, uh, there's gonna be a weird desk with a microphone. What am I?

• 28:58Speaker 06

  And also like 80% of your energy goes into pretending you're not terrified.

• 29:02Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah. And.

• 29:03Speaker 06

  Eventually you, you're not afraid anymore and you're like, well, that's, that's done.

• 29:08Conan O'Brien?

  Also, who ends a conversation and says, hey, Mark, it was great catching up with you. That was a terrific four and a half minutes. We'll take a break. You know, uh, Cab Calloway, when we get back.

• 29:21Conan O'Brien?

  And I lean over and you say, how was that? And I went, I think you really killed it. And, um, people say, what do you guys talk about in the break? Really not much, uh, but that's an insane, who walks out and addresses a crowd and talks about the day's news?

• 29:33Speaker 06

  It's crazy.

• 29:34Conan O'Brien?

  It's such a kooky thing to do. And the only way to be good at it is to metabolize it as something normal and then start acting like this is all normal.

• 29:44Speaker 06

  It's a job. And one time when I, the first time I did stand up on Letterman and I sat, I didn't even get any desk time, but I did walk over there and then he goes to break and he leans in and goes, you can make that stuff work on the road?

• 29:57Speaker 06

  I do have to go, I gotta go to Tribeca.

• 29:59Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, you gotta go. And you know what? You've always had to go to Tribeca. Marc Maron, thank you.

• 30:04Speaker 06

  Thank you.

• 30:05Conan O'Brien?

  This was lovely and, uh, whatever you do, I'm, I'm in your corner, you know?

• 30:09Speaker 06

  I appreciate that. Well, I will say this, I do have a, uh, I'm on this show Stick.

• 30:14Conan O'Brien?

  Yep.

• 30:14Speaker 06

  With Owen and, uh, I got.

• 30:16Conan O'Brien?

  Owen Wilson.

• 30:16Speaker 06

  Yeah, I got an HBO special coming out later in the summer on HBO that I can't, you know, tell the title of yet. I know what it is, but, but look for that. And yeah, that's what's going on.

• 30:28Conan O'Brien?

  All right, and I can never have you back, you understand that?

• 30:30Speaker 06

  I knew that. I'm surprised this happened.

• 30:33Conan O'Brien?

  This isn't gonna air. And when I say air-

• 30:35Speaker 06

  But I appreciate all the nice thing you said.

• 30:36Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, I meant all of it, and I'll see you again, we'll do this again. And congratulations.

• 30:41Speaker 06

  Thanks, buddy. You too.

• 30:45Speaker 04

  Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend with Conan O'Brien, Sonam of Sessian, and Matt Gourley. Produced by me, Matt Gorley. Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Nick Leo. Theme song by The White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy.

• 31:05Speaker 04

  Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Britt Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. You can also get three free months of SiriusXM when you sign up at siriusxm.com/conan. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.

• 31:54Speaker 09

  Hey, it's me, Teddy Swims. You hear that? That's life. So go grab it. Grab your old friends, grab new friends, grab a White Claw. Grab flavor for everyone in your group. Grab music, laughter, and moments you'll never forget. You'll never regret it.

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  Hey Teddy! Oh, hey, man!

• 32:15Speaker 09

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