We’re gettin’ Belayed!

Conan talks to Phil in Vermont about organizing adventure-based team building activities for kids. Plus, Phil runs the Chums through a group emotional exercise. Wanna get a chance to talk to Conan? Submit here: teamcoco.com/apply

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:20Speaker 01

  Oh, hey, man.

• 0:22Speaker 00

  Grab new friends, grab old friends, grab life by the claw. White Claw. Please drink responsibly. White Claw Celta Works, Chicago, Illinois.

• 0:30Speaker 01

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• 1:03Speaker 02

  Conan O'Brien needs a fan. Want to talk to Conan? Visit TeamCoco.com/callConan. Okay, let's get started.

• 1:12Speaker 03

  Hey, Phil, welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Fan.

• 1:16Conan O'Brien?

  Phil, how are you?

• 1:17Speaker 03

  Hey, Conan, Sona, Matt.

• 1:19Conan O'Brien?

  How's it going?

• 1:20Speaker 03

  There's no particular order to the way I said your name, in terms of hierarchy.

• 1:23Conan O'Brien?

  It's fine. It's fine, and it's nice to talk to you. Phil, Phil, tell us a little bit about yourselves. I like to, you know, get the parameters of a man before we continue speaking. What, where are you right now?

• 1:39Speaker 03

  So I live in Vermont, and...

• 1:42Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, you've got that Vermont accent.

• 1:44Speaker 03

  I was almost gonna say it, and you said it for me.

• 1:49Conan O'Brien?

  I know.

• 1:50Speaker 03

  Traditional Vermont accent.

• 1:51Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, where are you from originally?

• 1:52Speaker 03

  I'm originally from a town called Ipswich in England, on the east coast.

• 1:57Conan O'Brien?

  Okay, very nice.

• 1:58Speaker 03

  I felt I should experience New England, and so that's where I live now.

• 2:02Conan O'Brien?

  It's so funny, I grew up in New England and really believed, when I was a boy, that England had stolen the names of our towns. I really believe that.

• 2:12Speaker 05

  Is that what they tell you?

• 2:13Conan O'Brien?

  No, I just was, I found out that, you know, because I grew up in Boston and there's Cambridge and just on and on and on. And I just thought, you know, Sturbridge. And then I started to hear about these places in England and thought, well, why can't they, why can't they get their own names?

• 2:30Conan O'Brien?

  So.

• 2:31Speaker 03

  I remember I went to, I went to Ipswich, Mass. So you may be familiar, but they have an Ipswich, Mass brewery. And I went in and I said, I'm from Ipswich. And they said, well, no shit, we're in Ipswich. And I said, no, no, the original. And I expected to be carried on shoulders, but that did not happen.

• 2:50Conan O'Brien?

  No, there's not a lot of, ever since we got rid of your king, we don't go carrying people around on our shoulders. It's, but, well, I'm, so you live in Vermont. How did you choose Vermont? What made you say, okay, you have the entire United States to play with. What made you choose Vermont?

• 3:10Speaker 03

  I would say the beauty. If you've been.

• 3:13Conan O'Brien?

  Gorgeous.

• 3:13Speaker 03

  It's a beautiful state. And it also happens to be Howells, the location at which I work. So it was through work that I ended up in Vermont. It wasn't necessarily a choice, but I am very glad for the choice.

• 3:25Conan O'Brien?

  Very good.

• 3:26Speaker 03

  It's a beautiful state to raise a kid.

• 3:27Conan O'Brien?

  I, I like New Hampshire. I like Vermont. I've spent a lot of time in both. And I'm curious what you do. What you, you mentioned a job. What is your job?

• 3:38Speaker 03

  Yeah. So I work for an organization called High Five Adventure Learning Center. And I use adventure-based activities for team and leadership development from fifth grade kids all the way up to the Boston Bruins. So a spectrum.

• 3:54Conan O'Brien?

  It's very interesting to me that it's the same principles. If you're talking to someone in the fifth grade, or if you're talking to a professional athlete, it's the same principles, I guess. Leadership, how to work together, how to have fun.

• 4:07Speaker 03

  And I'm, yeah. And I would say I'm unique in that I get to take people on a ropes course in Vermont. So, you know, we bring. Participants up to forty, fifty feet in the air and kind of have stretch moments for them. So really have kind of really extreme experiences really that allows them to kind of develop more as a team. And it doesn't matter if you're a fifth grader or you're a professional athlete, the heights is the great normalizer or the great equalizer.

• 4:37Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, now, okay, let's get into the safety of it because you send a fifth grader up a pole, how many feet in the air?

• 4:45Speaker 03

  Let's say forty, forty, fifty, it can be anywhere within that range.

• 4:48Conan O'Brien?

  Is the child tethered or is there a good chance the child could fall to his or her doom?

• 4:58Speaker 03

  I would assume that if we did it untethered, we wouldn't be allowed. So no.

• 5:03Conan O'Brien?

  What a weird way to go at that.

• 5:05Speaker 03

  That seems very legalistic.

• 5:06Conan O'Brien?

  That's, yeah, I would assume that were one to have an untethered child, that if found out, one would be discovered and one could be in trouble. I think you have untethered children and I think kids are falling like apples. Apples in October, I think they're tumbling and you're just catching them.

• 5:27Speaker 03

  We start to get calls from parents immediately after this. No, they're on a rope, we belay them and I would say the, I've seen you climb, I believe there was a Conan Musco episode where you climbed. Your incredible physique mastered the climb.

• 5:43Conan O'Brien?

  Hey, I like you, by the way, you're fantastic and clearly you don't have a very good, you don't have a very good television screen.

• 5:51Conan O'Brien?

  But, but I, yes, I did climb, I did a rock, a rock wall.

• 5:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:56Conan O'Brien?

  In Thailand, I believe.

• 5:58Speaker 03

  Yeah. The differing factor I would say for our programs is we actually teach our participants to do the belay. So that is that demonstration of team and leadership development is actually giving them a skill and allowing them to be responsible for their team members.

• 6:14Conan O'Brien?

  Oh.

• 6:15Speaker 03

  And so that is something that I really, I think that the three of you, bring Eduardo, bring Blay. But teach Sona how to belay and then have Sona in charge of Conan.

• 6:28Conan O'Brien?

  No, no, guess what, guess what, Phil, I've experienced Sona in charge of Conan.

• 6:36Conan O'Brien?

  I think I did about 10 years of Sona in charge of Conan. And I was killed multiple times. Shit went half-assed all over the place. So you're saying that I would be hanging 50 feet in the air? And the only thing between me and death would be a rope? And Sona's holding on to it?

• 6:55Speaker 06

  Yes, yes.

• 6:56Conan O'Brien?

  And then Sona sees a glass of white wine in the corner?

• 6:58Speaker 06

  Oh.

• 6:59Conan O'Brien?

  Let's go with the rope?

• 7:00Speaker 06

  Wine!

• 7:00Conan O'Brien?

  And I go, "Ah!" And you go, "Shrip, shrip, shrip, shrip, shrip, shrip, shrip." Shrip, shrip, shrip.

• 7:05Speaker 06

  Yeah, I like that idea. I think we should do this team building thing. I think that would really bring us closer together.

• 7:11Conan O'Brien?

  Um, so is it all climbing?

• 7:13Speaker 03

  It's critical for all teams.

• 7:14Conan O'Brien?

  Is it all climbing? What other things would we do?

• 7:17Speaker 03

  So, um, I would say we range it from, uh, ground initiatives. They may be problem-solving activities on the ground. There is connection activities to get you more connected as a team. And then we focus on the development of your trust and your responsibility and your decision-making. And then you bring you to that point of belaying each other. Really, that's that, that ultimate point. We'll get you there, right?

• 7:37Conan O'Brien?

  But Phil, Phil, let me ask you a question.

• 7:39Speaker 03

  I have a hundred percent faith in my abilities.

• 7:41Conan O'Brien?

  Phil, uh, I have a lot of faith in you, Phil. Um, is it possible that it's our dysfunction? That makes this podcast popular? That it's our inability to get along, our childishness, our peevishness, our, our, just overall, uh, I don't know? Just refusal to act like

• 8:04Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 8:04Conan O'Brien?

  good people?

• 8:05Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 8:06Conan O'Brien?

  That might be the glue here?

• 8:08Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:09Speaker 05

  That's right. It's that, we don't have a balance. We have a, like, equal amount of repulsion for each other.

• 8:15Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 8:15Speaker 05

  We're pulling on each other with equal amounts, so we stay tethered.

• 8:18Conan O'Brien?

  Yes, yes. Is that possible?

• 8:21Speaker 03

  It's highly possible. And actually, I, you know, I've listened to all of the episodes. And I, from my professional lens, um, I would say you're a really high-functioning team. Despite the repulsion. Uh, I think that repulsion could be there. And your team could still be successful. I like the head nods that they

• 8:38Conan O'Brien?

  No, no, I am, I am agreeing with you that there is some, um, in architecture, sometimes an archwork Because various forces are acting upon each other in an aggressive way. But that's what holds it all together. I've often heard, often, I've heard aviation experts describe a helicopter as a machine that wants to pull itself apart. But it's engineered in such a way that it doesn't, and that's actually what gives it its integrity. That's the analogy, that's good. I think we're a helicopter that desperately wants to fly apart. Rotors zipping in every direction. Adam Sachs walking into the room, his head being lopped off. Carnage, massacre, flames, but it, something keeps it all together.

• 9:22Conan O'Brien?

  And because of that, we're able to fly around through the air and give the local traffic report.

• 9:29Speaker 03

  So everywhere around you is destroyed, but this group stays intact. Wow, beautiful.

• 9:37Conan O'Brien?

  I, where did you first become interested in all of this, Phil? You're a young boy, you're living in eastern. Young boy. Well, I'm saying he's a young boy, he's in eastern coast, I'm imagining of England, the salty air. Sausage for breakfast.

• 9:56Speaker 03

  Please.

• 9:57Conan O'Brien?

  You know, also some beans, the ever-present beans. And some, some tea. With milk. Milk, yeah, syrup, yeah. And then something.

• 10:08Speaker 03

  Please, you're, you're getting me very heightened.

• 10:11Conan O'Brien?

  Right. I thought we were talking about Vermont. And then, and then suddenly, you, you get into team building. Was there, was there another plan along the way, or was this always the plan, do you think?

• 10:21Speaker 03

  So I was, my, my education is in teaching, and so I was gonna become a teacher. And I came over to the States to do a summer camp program. It's a rite of passage, it seems like, for a European to enter America and work a summer camp program. So I felt like I had to do it.

• 10:41Speaker 03

  And at the camp, they had a ropes course, they had team development, and they did year-round programming. And I kinda just fell in. They said, you've got a teaching degree, we'd love for you to stick around, and they sponsored my visa and.

• 10:54Conan O'Brien?

  Oh, very cool.

• 10:54Speaker 03

  Eighteen years later, I'm still here, so I've yet to find my way home.

• 10:59Conan O'Brien?

  Well, I think you're thriving. It's reminding me, I went to summer camp in Freedom, New Hampshire. Yeah. And there was a camp there called Cragged Mountain Farm. And we had, I had a, one of my counselors was from Britain. So, and I remembered climbing the Presidential Mountain Range. And there was this gentleman with a British accent who would tell us to move our asses. Get up that hill. Yeah. Um, and we killed him. Oh. And we ate him.

• 11:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:29Conan O'Brien?

  It was delicious.

• 11:30Speaker 03

  Appropriate.

• 11:30Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah. We, we were running low on food. We only had six more weeks of food left. Hmm. For a two-day hike. So it was necessary that he, that he die and be eaten. Um, Phil, I really respect people that teach for a living and I, it's, it's absolutely wonderful. And do you find ever that a kid, um, or even an adult gets up to the top of the pole and they just won't budge? And they just won't move and you, you're coaxing them and coaxing them, but they don't move. What do you do at that point? Push them. BB gun.

• 12:00Speaker 03

  So I think it really, I love the sound, they said push them.

• 12:04Conan O'Brien?

  Push them and BB gun. I said just a shot. This is what I'm working with. Are you up there with them? Or is someone up there with them?

• 12:10Speaker 03

  But, but I would, but I would say the, uh, the question to push them does come up often. And, uh, it's the number one thing we say not to do.

• 12:17Conan O'Brien?

  Oh.

• 12:18Speaker 03

  So, um, sorry, sorry, no. The, uh, but I love your instincts.

• 12:22Conan O'Brien?

  Can I give you my suggestion? Electrify, electrify the pole. They, they suddenly, they suddenly spread out like a flattened squirrel and they fall through space. Uh, I love it. An electrified pole, that's the answer. Do they die? Cause it, no. It's not my concern. No. What I'm saying is that a BB gun, you have to hit them, uh, for 50 feet.

• 12:46Speaker 07

  That's a whole nother activity for some other children, for some team building, you know? So you're kind of combining.

• 12:51Speaker 03

  Another group.

• 12:51Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 12:52Speaker 03

  Off to the side, yeah. So to answer the question, I, um, there's two parts to it. I like that you laughed at that.

• 12:59Conan O'Brien?

  Um, well, we.

• 13:00Speaker 03

  There's two parts to it, what?

• 13:02Conan O'Brien?

  We're clearly not trying to learn anything. Yeah. Well, I will, I do, I will answer your question and give you the knowledge you need. To the three idiots.

• 13:09Speaker 03

  I'm a little.

• 13:10Conan O'Brien?

  To BB gun pushing and electrifying the pole.

• 13:13Speaker 07

  I'm wondering if I'll find myself in a situation where I have to push a kid down a pole. I don't know, but I'm, I'm eager to hear how to do it.

• 13:20Speaker 03

  This is the next career path for you, man. Um.

• 13:30Conan O'Brien?

  When it comes to insurance, Farmers doesn't like surprises. That's why there's Farmers coverage on a page. What is it you ask? Did you ask? I don't think you did, but let's pretend you did.

• 13:41Speaker 06

  What is that?

• 13:42Conan O'Brien?

  It's your coverage on a page, pretty straightforward. That's good, because sometimes it gets confusing, you know? What am I covered for, what am I not? Here, it's all on a page. Does your insurance do that? Get a quote to get started at Farmers.com. Don't be confused, don't wonder. Farmers makes it pretty clear. Underwritten by Farmers, Truck or Fire Insurance Exchanges or affiliate. Products not available in every state.

• 14:08Conan O'Brien?

  Your name represents everything you've built, okay? Everything, like, I feel that way about my name. It stands for all of the work, good and not so good in my life. But guess what? Your children's names represent their whole futures. Your children haven't even started building their futures, but their identities are already valuable. Your child's clean credit history can make them a target for identity thieves. Never thought of it that way, but it's true. Identity thieves can open loans and credit cards using your child's social security number, racking up debt and ruining their credit, and you may not notice until they try and get their first credit card. So it could be a long time.

• 14:43Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 14:44Conan O'Brien?

  Well, guess what? With LifeLock, you can add family members to your plan, giving you the power to block identity threats targeting your children. Now, Sonya, your kids are pretty young still. Five. But within a couple of years, you know, they're gonna be buying heavy machinery online.

• 14:58Speaker 06

  What?

• 14:59Conan O'Brien?

  They're gonna be, become tractor fanatics. They're gonna be buying tractors online. So if you have expenses or money stolen due to identity theft, you're backed by the million-dollar protection package with up to $3 million coverage in some plans. So join now, save up to 30% off your first year. Go to lifelock.com/conan. That's lifelock.com/conan to save 30%. Terms apply.

• 15:22Conan O'Brien?

  Who do you shop for first on the holidays, Sona? Was it, do you shop for the kids or do you shop for Tac?

• 15:26Speaker 06

  My kids.

• 15:27Conan O'Brien?

  Okay, you gotta get them your stuff.

• 15:28Speaker 06

  Or my dogs.

• 15:29Conan O'Brien?

  And then your husband is last. Well, guess what? It's that time of year. You feel that, you smell that cinnamon cider in the air? Do you smell that?

• 15:39Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 15:39Conan O'Brien?

  And you see pumpkins around, people buying turkeys. A little early to buy a turkey. Doesn't matter. Holidays? I would say it's just around the corner, but that's a cliche. It's very nearby in the cupboard. Well, guess what? Amazon delivers joy with low prices on the gifts you want even this early in the season. So get ahead of the season. Shop early gifts, top picks, holiday decor, and advent calendars at low prices. Get ahead, start on holiday gifting with Amazon's low prices. Shop now at amazon.com/holiday.

• 16:15Conan O'Brien?

  The holidays are supposed to be about making memories, not managing the mess that comes with them. Between winter weather, road trips, shopping, and family gatherings, your vehicle can take a beating. Mine sure does.

• 16:26Speaker 06

  Same.

• 16:26Conan O'Brien?

  Especially when I'm back in the Northeast, driving around. I mean, I grew up with that.

• 16:30Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 16:31Conan O'Brien?

  Cars would rip the salt on the road, people throwing rocks at me.

• 16:34Speaker 06

  Whaaat?

• 16:36Conan O'Brien?

  That's not a weather thing. That's more of a me being, making people angry problem. WeatherTech helps protect your vehicle from snow, slush, salt, and seasonal messes. They also make the best gifts for automobile protection, from floor liners and cargo liner to side window deflectors, even gift cards. Great for today and to prevent future messes. Everything is built to last, easy to clean, and designed for harsh winter conditions, okay? I grew up with this.

• 17:02Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 17:02Conan O'Brien?

  And the salt would eat away the car. We actually did have a Chevy. My dad had a Chevy Impala, and the floor rusted out and you could see the road going by.

• 17:09Speaker 06

  Oh, what?

• 17:11Conan O'Brien?

  Boy, we were praying for WeatherTech and we didn't even know it. That was before it existed.

• 17:15Speaker 06

  That's cool.

• 17:16Conan O'Brien?

  So get a gift today at weathertech.com.

• 17:25Speaker 03

  So either we have adequately prepared the students so that we're not having people up who shouldn't be up there. We don't force them up.

• 17:33Conan O'Brien?

  Oh, so there's a lot of training before they go up the pole?

• 17:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, I would say there's loads of sequencing, planning. It's part of the risk management thing. And then, but the other component is that I teach, as well as teaching the team building stuff, I also teach rescue training for those kind of scenarios. So we can have participants go up to height, or staff members, sorry, go up to height, and then help pick a participant off the course. So there's like a spectrum or a range of rescue scenarios that we can do. And I teach those too.

• 18:05Conan O'Brien?

  Wow.

• 18:05Speaker 03

  So from a, like a risk management lens, I would say you're in safe hands because not only can we deal with the mental side of how to help people, but we can also deal with the physical component of getting someone down if necessary. We wouldn't want to push someone, though.

• 18:22Conan O'Brien?

  No, no, no. That'd be terrible. I think electrifying much better. I think berating is good, too. You little pussy. Sona brings up a good, Sona brings up a good point. Are you, it could be valuable to shame, shame someone who doesn't.

• 18:39Speaker 03

  Sure, yeah, yeah.

• 18:40Conan O'Brien?

  And, and, and, you know, I know your first reaction is an educator, is that, oh, you can't, you can't shame a fifth grader, but I was shamed many times as a fifth grader. And I think it molded me into the person I am today. Case in point. Well, hold it. Excuse me. Okay. Driving home in three Maseratis, all tied together.

• 18:59Conan O'Brien?

  Not easy to do. But what I'm saying, Phil, is that if a child fails and has to be brought down, is there any ceremony where the child is maybe drummed out, little epaulettes are torn from his shoulders? Pelted. You know, or, or in some way made to suffer for his cowardice?

• 19:21Speaker 03

  I would say that regardless of anything I do to try to reduce that from happening, that will probably happen in some way.

• 19:28Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, kids will be kids.

• 19:29Speaker 03

  I would say, I would say the worst people that would, if there's a school group, sometimes the worst people are the teachers. And if it's a family group, the worst people are the parents. They're the ones who are screaming the obscenity sometimes. But, but for the most part, I think that we are very calm and relaxed about the way that we talk with our students and we attempt not to shame people if they were to fail or come down.

• 19:55Speaker 07

  Can you pretend like you're our teacher? Cause I understand you have a little game for us to play.

• 20:01Conan O'Brien?

  And maybe work with us, okay? We've just shown up in Ipswich, Vermont. Our car broke down and overheated. It was a 1977 Hyundai, which didn't even exist. We weren't even planning on going? No. And, no, we were driving through, we're on our way to a yard sale. Because they have a ton of those in New Hampshire and Vermont. You've probably noticed that on the weekends, everyone just puts literally toilet seats on their yard and says it's a yard sale. I beg to differ, Vermont. But anyway, and please, no angry letters, I won't read them. So, we come wandering in and we need your team building. What would you have us do?

• 20:42Speaker 03

  So first I would say you're in the wrong place because there's no Ipswich, Vermont. So, but after you've...

• 20:49Conan O'Brien?

  Son of a bitch!

• 20:50Speaker 03

  He just shamed you!

• 20:52Conan O'Brien?

  He just shamed, you just shamed me! And Phil, and all the other kids are laughing!

• 20:56Speaker 03

  It does come from the teacher.

• 20:58Conan O'Brien?

  Ah, loser!

• 21:01Conan O'Brien?

  You little pussy! Oh no!

• 21:03Speaker 03

  You're a geography imbecile!

• 21:05Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, I'm gonna shove you out the pool! I'm from New England, I can't... Wait a minute, all this shame... Stop firing BBs at me. All this shame is molding me into an amazing comedian! Thank you, Phil!

• 21:21Speaker 03

  Task done.

• 21:22Conan O'Brien?

  Task done.

• 21:23Speaker 03

  You arrive and then I say, get back into your car, please. We don't, my service isn't no longer needed.

• 21:28Conan O'Brien?

  Yes, very good.

• 21:30Speaker 03

  No, but if you make it to the right location. And I think the first thing we would start with is because adventure, I think sometimes gets misinterpreted as the climbing parts.

• 21:40Conan O'Brien?

  Yep.

• 21:41Speaker 03

  But adventure is any form of risk and it could be physical, it could be emotional, it could be social risk. The first thing I'm going to start with is actually talking about our emotions, which can be a risk for some people. I know, and I can see the excitement in your faces.

• 21:58Speaker 03

  And the pointing of other people. So what we're going to do is I am going to share with you on the screen, a number grid. So you've got one through 57.

• 22:10Speaker 03

  So what I'm going to ask, I'll ask one of you at a time. We can start with Conan. I'm going to ask you to pick two numbers. That's a level of risk because you don't know what's behind them. But there are emotions and feelings words under these numbers.

• 22:23Conan O'Brien?

  Okay.

• 22:24Speaker 03

  What I would like you to do, once you see the words, is describe an experience or name an experience that you have had where you have experienced both of those feelings at the same time. Because we as humans are not only experiencing one thing at a time when it comes to emotions.

• 22:40Conan O'Brien?

  Okay.

• 22:40Speaker 03

  And so, but the situation I wanted to be that you've experienced as a trio. So an experience you've had that you've experienced these two emotions.

• 22:49Conan O'Brien?

  The three of us have had. Okay. And wow, this is, I got to thread a lot of needles here. It's got to be, it's going to be two emotions I've felt at the same time with, with these two. Okay. So I'm going to go with.

• 23:00Speaker 03

  Chill chums. Yeah.

• 23:01Conan O'Brien?

  I'm going to go with 17. And I'm going to go with 44.

• 23:06Speaker 03

  Okay. So 17 is angry.

• 23:08Speaker 06

  Oh my god.

• 23:09Conan O'Brien?

  Piece of cake.

• 23:11Speaker 03

  All right. Hang on. No scenarios. Yeah. And you've also experienced.

• 23:18Speaker 03

  Embarrassment.

• 23:19Conan O'Brien?

  Oh.

• 23:19Speaker 03

  One of you both angry and embarrassed alongside your chill chums.

• 23:25Conan O'Brien?

  Today? Oh, well, I mean, yeah, excluding just now and the interview we did before this. Listen, I talked to some, you know, I worked hard to become, you know, a fairly well-known celebrity. And then these two are coasting on my coattails. I'm often sitting here with some of the biggest names in the business, or if you're a bumblebee, the buzzness. And out of control, he's out of control. And I know. I'm angry about that buzzness. And I'm here with these two. I mean, you were my assistant and somehow you were elevated to the top of the showbiz pile. Yeah. Matt Gourley is in a zither band.

• 24:03Conan O'Brien?

  He plays some of the coolest, you know, spots in Pasadena. And he haunts the Rose Bowl swap meet. And I've put both of them in rooms with Harrison Ford. You know, some of the biggest stars in the world, all of the Kardashians have been here at the same time. And, you know, I, do I sometimes get angry about that? And feel embarrassed that they lack the skills that I've spent years in the minds of comedy working? Yes, I do. I feel both of those things.

• 24:33Conan O'Brien?

  But I'm going to specifically name a time. I think it was one of our, just pick one, but I think I was angry and embarrassed when, when you guys, both of you, became intoxicated. Oh. In one of our Chill Chums shows. One of. Well, it's happened several times. And I. Every time. And I, you know, I pride myself on being a professional. And of course I imbibed little, but was still in plenty of, I, I know my, my levels, my tolerance very well. And so I still was in control. And I was ashamed. I'm going to add ashamed to embarrassed and angry. Wow. I was angry, embarrassed, ashamed. And I felt superior to both of you.

• 25:19Conan O'Brien?

  I'm adding that one too. I'm also adding. Um, yeah, okay. So I just, I guess I won that contest.

• 25:27Speaker 03

  Yeah. Okay, I appreciate that. And I feel like I really set.

• 25:31Conan O'Brien?

  Wasn't that the idea to win?

• 25:32Speaker 06

  You don't win.

• 25:33Conan O'Brien?

  Didn't I win?

• 25:34Speaker 06

  No, it's team building.

• 25:35Speaker 03

  We're on the same team.

• 25:37Speaker 06

  You are really, you're tearing our team even further apart.

• 25:40Conan O'Brien?

  But Phil, wouldn't you say, whatever they say, it's not gonna be as good as that. So don't I win and I'm the winner? Do I get, is there a prize?

• 25:49Speaker 03

  Oof, um, I, I think that your experience.

• 25:53Conan O'Brien?

  Are you questioning?

• 25:54Speaker 06

  He works with children.

• 25:55Conan O'Brien?

  Are you questioning your whole professional ability?

• 25:58Speaker 03

  You just made that man say, poof.

• 26:02Conan O'Brien?

  Phil is gonna get out of the team building business.

• 26:05Speaker 03

  I have trained, I have worked with professional hockey athletes who have told me to F off. And I, even in this, oof, that made me oof. But I would say I really set you up there with those, almost those two words. I'm gonna, I'm gonna pass it over if I'm mad.

• 26:20Conan O'Brien?

  Yes.

• 26:20Speaker 03

  To Sona.

• 26:21Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 26:21Speaker 03

  So now pick two words. Let's see if we can think of a situation you've maybe had and let you.

• 26:25Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 26:26Conan O'Brien?

  Go ahead, go for it.

• 26:27Speaker 06

  How about 10?

• 26:28Speaker 03

  Two, two, two numbers.

• 26:29Speaker 06

  10 and 40.

• 26:31Speaker 03

  Okay, these are, I can tell they're good. It's serene.

• 26:34Speaker 06

  Oh.

• 26:35Conan O'Brien?

  Well, I know when she felt serene. Yeah. Matches your gummy.

• 26:40Speaker 03

  And then, and then number 40 is frustrated.

• 26:44Speaker 06

  Oh.

• 26:45Speaker 03

  That's an interesting pair.

• 26:46Conan O'Brien?

  Interesting combo, serene and frustrated.

• 26:48Speaker 06

  I know, that is kind of.

• 26:49Speaker 03

  Both.

• 26:50Speaker 06

  Um, you know, Chills Chums when I was drunk?

• 26:56Speaker 06

  I was happy I was drunk and I was also frustrated I wasn't also a little high.

• 27:01Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 27:02Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 27:04Conan O'Brien?

  That's a really good answer.

• 27:05Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 27:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, that is.

• 27:07Conan O'Brien?

  I think, I think also, I think. I picture Sona being serene and frustrated when she's got a bag and it's got four gummies in it and she's had three and so she's serene, but she can't get it that fourth one because it's jammed down into the bottom of the bag.

• 27:21Speaker 06

  I'm like Winnie the Pooh with the honey pot.

• 27:22Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, and you're, and your hands aren't working that well. So you're both serene and frustrated because that, that last gummy evades your grip.

• 27:30Speaker 06

  Yeah, okay. All right. I like this game.

• 27:33Speaker 03

  Wow, I know, I like what you're doing. And I'm also sensing that they're they're both tied to the Chill Chums experience.

• 27:40Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 27:40Conan O'Brien?

  Yes.

• 27:41Speaker 03

  Beautifully so, yeah. Alcohol involved in both, I will highlight that also. Lastly, I'll come to you, Matt, for the last one.

• 27:49Speaker 07

  Okay, I'll do four and how about fifty-seven?

• 27:55Conan O'Brien?

  See how we all do extremes?

• 27:57Speaker 03

  Four is surprised.

• 27:58Speaker 06

  Ah.

• 28:00Speaker 03

  Okay, fifty-seven is chill.

• 28:03Conan O'Brien?

  Oh.

• 28:03Speaker 03

  What an end.

• 28:04Conan O'Brien?

  Surprised and chill.

• 28:05Speaker 07

  Okay, well, I feel like I've got to carry on with this tradition with chill. The Chill Chums, I felt very chill because we were having alcohol in a lot of it, so it kind of mellows you out.

• 28:16Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 28:17Conan O'Brien?

  And you make an amazing drink. I want to compliment this gentleman. One of the best mixologists, I'm not even kidding, your drinks are superb.

• 28:25Speaker 07

  That's nice. Thank you. Still, I gotta say, I was surprised when you said that you weren't drunk on the Chill Chums thing. Because I remember you slurring some words and at one point talking to us, but looking inside the drink while you're talking to us like it was a microphone.

• 28:40Conan O'Brien?

  I

• 28:43Conan O'Brien?

  had suffered a terrible cerebral event. Unrelated to alcohol that night, and for you to mock me for it. It's a total coincidence that I had, yeah, an eruption of blood into the brain.

• 28:59Conan O'Brien?

  Well, it looks like we're just a bunch of terrible drinkers.

• 29:04Speaker 07

  Wait, do you do anything with that?

• 29:06Speaker 03

  Oh, absolutely. And I think what's nice is that what we've able to do in this, in the small moment, is reflect on stuff that's happened in the past, talk about it as a group, share some of these experiences together that have tied us together. And that allows us to progress into doing stuff that's a little bit more risky as a group. So all of those things are really positive.

• 29:24Conan O'Brien?

  You're saying we should drink more next time?

• 29:26Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 29:27Speaker 03

  Sure. Or come to Vermont and I'll get you belaying each other. There you go. That's that next level.

• 29:32Speaker 06

  That's nice. I want to belay.

• 29:33Speaker 03

  I believe it, so.

• 29:34Speaker 06

  I want to belay you guys.

• 29:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:35Conan O'Brien?

  What?

• 29:36Speaker 06

  Yeah, I want to belay. I want to be in charge of your life.

• 29:40Conan O'Brien?

  Okay.

• 29:41Speaker 07

  Let's get belayed.

• 29:42Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, yeah. Tonight we're getting belayed.

• 29:45Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 29:46Conan O'Brien?

  Cut to me hanging on a rope. Hey, tonight I'm getting belayed.

• 29:54Conan O'Brien?

  Me hanging on a rope, you firing away with your 22. Well, I think we learned a lot here.

• 29:59Speaker 03

  I can already tell. I can already tell the name of this episode, so that's great.

• 30:04Conan O'Brien?

  We're getting belated, yeah, we're getting belated, okay. Phil, you're doing all the work for us.

• 30:10Conan O'Brien?

  Well, Phil, lovely, absolutely lovely talking to you. You are, again, I say this without irony, or it's just no joke, when people teach for a living, I think that's a beautiful thing, and you seem like you'd be great at it. You've already demonstrated

• 30:27Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 30:27Conan O'Brien?

  that you're affable, and you're funny, and you're smart, and so thank you so much for the work that you do, and I bet you are helping a lot of people of all ages. And I, you never know, I might make my way up to blank Vermont very soon.

• 30:44Conan O'Brien?

  What's that? It's not Ipswich. Sorry for being so fascinated by your British roots.

• 30:53Conan O'Brien?

  But maybe we will, maybe we will make it up there someday, and I'd like to shake your hand, you're a fine fellow. And you look a little bit like a

• 31:00Speaker 03

  You're always welcome.

• 31:00Conan O'Brien?

  You look a little bit like a younger Billy Bragg, just gonna say that. I love Billy Bragg. He's great, yeah.

• 31:06Speaker 03

  Wow, so the difference is a 5th grader once said to me, "Hey Phil, do you know who you look like?" And it doesn't often go well, and I was a little concerned, and I said, "No, who do I look like?" Sonar and Matt might get the reference, but they told me I looked like Lama Lama Red Pajama.

• 31:21Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah. I was gonna say Josh Homie.

• 31:25Speaker 03

  I was thinking Gronk.

• 31:26Speaker 06

  Oh, no, I was thinking Josh Homie, uh, Homie? From, uh...

• 31:30Speaker 03

  Queens of the Stone Age.

• 31:31Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 31:32Conan O'Brien?

  But you know what, you sound like Clive Owen.

• 31:34Speaker 03

  These are so much nicer.

• 31:35Conan O'Brien?

  Don't you think he sounds like Clive Owen? He does sound like Clive Owen.

• 31:37Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 31:39Speaker 03

  This is so much better, you are better than 5th graders.

• 31:41Speaker 06

  Yay!

• 31:42Conan O'Brien?

  That's the nicest thing anyone's said to me in a while.

• 31:46Conan O'Brien?

  Phil, thank you so much, lovely to talk to you, continued success, and I hope we cross paths in the future.

• 31:53Speaker 03

  Thank you so much, friends.

• 31:54Conan O'Brien?

  Take care, bye-bye.

• 32:14Speaker 05

  Supervising producer Aaron Blaird, associate talent producer Jennifer Samples, associate producers Sean Dougherty and Lisa Byrme, engineering by Eduardo Perez. Get three free months of SiriusXM when you sign up at siriusxm.com/conan. Please rate, review, and subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Fan wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.

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