Pod Insights The Clark Howard Podcast 12.18.24 American Healthcare Needs A Full Rethink / New Employment Challenges About this episode The murder of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson has created a lot of argument and discussion about healthcare and health insurance. Clark addresses the problems and challenges we face with the U. S. healthcare system including lack of choice, hidden pricing, and consumers being squeezed on cost and denied care. Also - Clark discusses new statistics on how long it is taking many workers to find a new job, and how you should prepare. American Healthcare: Segment 1 Ask Clark: Segment 2 Employment Update: Segment 3 Ask Clark: Segment 4 Mentioned on the show: After a shocking shooting, Americans vent feelings about health insurance National Academy of Elder Law Attorneys Home NAELA Why It’s More Important Than Ever To Have an Emergency Fund How Much Money Do I Need in My Emergency Fund? How Much Do You Need To Save a Month To Get $10,000? 17 of the Best High-Yield Online Savings Accounts in December 2024 Is Robinhood Gold Worth It? How To Open a Roth IRA What Is a SIMPLE IRA and How Does It Work? What Is a SEP IRA and Who Is Eligible? Clark.com resources Episode transcripts Community. Clark.com Clark.com daily money newsletter Consumer Action Center Free Helpline: 636-492-5275 Learn more about your ad choices: megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Transcript 0:00 Speaker 00 UKG is the workforce operating platform with unified HR, payroll, and workforce management. Built to solve the unique challenges of frontline work. Powered by People First AI and decades of labor data, UKG turns workforce intelligence into real-time decisions around staffing, pay, compliance, and productivity, enabling every worker to confidently take action as work happens. Because when work works, everything works. Learn more at ukg.com/work. UKG, HR, Pay, and Workforce Management.
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1:05 Speaker 02 It's my pleasure to welcome you here to the Clark Howard Show, where our mission is to serve you with advice and information that empowers you to make better financial decisions in your life. I was shaken to my foundations by the brutal murder of the United Healthcare CEO. And it's created a lot of back and forth about what's going on with healthcare and health insurers in particular. I want to address that in today's episode. And later, there's a shift in the economy where employment still remains historically exceptionally low in the United States.
1:51 Speaker 02 But people who are being laid off from a job. Many of them, it's taking a lot longer to find a new job than it has in years. And there are implications in that that we gotta talk about. That's later. But right now, I was devastated by the cold-blooded murder of the CEO of one of the United Healthcare operating units in New York. I was so surprised by the people who expressed glee on a variety of social media sites about his cold-blooded assassination.
2:35 Speaker 02 Brian Thompson was a man who, in the healthcare world, was in the news and had been a controversial figure to the general public. No one had ever heard of him. His death just really, really upset me. Even at the same time, you've heard me rail on the insurance industry, and particularly the health insurance industry, on failing to act in good faith, using strategies to do just what were on those casings. Delay, delay, deny, deny, and on. This is clearly a problem with healthcare and health insurance in the United States.
3:18 Speaker 02 That the insurers do a number of rope-a-dope strategies, including, as many of us are aware, Evercore, that is set up, is paid for by the health insurers, to look for reasons to deny care for individuals. And understand the incentive of health insurers when somebody needs a complicated or expensive procedure or operation.
3:48 Speaker 02 Their economic incentive is to deny or delay approval, hoping that an individual will die, so they won't have to pay for whatever it is. It is my opinion that that's really what's going on. But the problems with the health insurers are one part of a puzzle of things that I've talked about with you in the past, that we have so much sand in the gears for healthcare in the United States, it's insane. We spend far more, as I've talked about in the past, than any other country, even as a share of our national income, almost a fifth of it. Our productive capacity is like one hand tied behind our backs, because we waste so
4:32 Speaker 02 much money on the healthcare part of the economy without good results. The biggest problem, though, is where do we get our health coverage from? Third parties. One of the fundamental flaws here is you and I, as patients, are not the customer. Almost all of us get our coverage from either a large employer, or we get it in some way from the government. Very few of us are making the decision what coverage we buy, what plan we have, we're getting it from someone else, and they are the customer.
5:16 Speaker 02 The broken link in all this is that we don't have a system that is fundamental to making a free market work, where you and I are the decision makers, where you and I decide, we want to buy this, it's going to cost us this much, and we're going to get these benefits. Someone else decides for us. And that creates so much of the dysfunction. Another issue that I've addressed separately, but is also part of this problem of the extreme frustration Americans have about just these weird bills that show up in the mail from
5:58 Speaker 02 medical providers and all that, is you and I buy services for medical care without knowing what they're gonna cost. What else? Name anything else you do in your life where you consume a service before you know what it's gonna cost. And I defy you to find anything else that that happens with. So we've got so many things that have led to the problems with you and me ultimately in the end being squeezed, either with care denied or with costs that are through the roof, that we don't even know about because we have no effective mechanism in the United
6:41 Speaker 02 States for you and me to comparison shop. This is a multifaceted problem that requires, if anything, a full rethink. Not celebrating the cold-blooded murder of an individual. Instead, let's do what we need to do as a country to improve the quality of the results of healthcare in the United States and the ability for you and me as consumers to be the customer. And I have a lot of ideas about how I'd fix providing health coverage to people in the United States. Not enough time here to go into all of that.
7:25 Speaker 02 But the problem is not one problem. There are multiple elements that have festered and gone unaddressed that we need to address in the United States to improve our longevity, which is so pitiful compared to so much of the rest of the world, our overall health, and also the cost that healthcare represents as a share of our nation's economy, because we don't compete just against ourselves. We compete economically against the whole world.
8:03 Speaker 03 Okay, we'll go to some questions now. Charles in Georgia wrote this. Last year, I purchased an electric SUV called the Fisker Ocean.
8:11 Speaker 02 Oh, no.
8:12 Speaker 03 Yeah, and financed it with Chase. My question is that now that the company has gone out of business, Chapter 13 and 7, which no longer provide any service or warranty.
8:22 Speaker 02 It's 11 and 7.
8:24 Speaker 03 Okay. What is the best way to get out from under my car loan? My loan balance is $44,000 and the car value is $13,000. This is the case for about 7,000 USA owners in America. And P.S., I have no gap insurance. P.S.S., Chase is being sued for something called the Holder Rule since they were working with Fisker, Inc.
8:47 Speaker 02 So, this is a novel legal concept. I've been reading about this for months. A law firm is trying to get the courts to relieve Fisker owners of liability on their vehicle loans because Chase was the, like, almost like in-house lender for people buying Fiskers. And I'm not a lawyer. It is a novel legal concept, and I would be surprised if that's going to be the silver bullet for those of you as owners, that Chase will end up having to absorb a lot of the value of the loans.
9:31 Speaker 02 The theory is that Chase, fully in business with Fisker, knew or should have known when they were making these loans to consumers, that Fisker was not going to make it. Who knows? But I would be very, very surprised if that works. So, what do you do as a Fisker owner? This is brutal because the ability to find spare parts, people who are able to repair the vehicles, is going to be tough. You have something that you're essentially stuck with because if you just allow a repo of this vehicle, the financial consequences for you...
10:15 Speaker 02 Are really bad ugly because you will end up being held liable for the value of it without being able to drive it, the value of that loan, without being able to drive your 80% depreciated vehicle. So what I have encouraged, because I've been asked by individuals out and about, what I've encouraged people to do is just keep driving it, and if you can afford it, keep paying for it, because this is one of those things that a bad thing happened to good people, you just have to, if you can, fight through it.
10:53 Speaker 03 Hopefully, people enjoy driving them. It's so terrible.
10:56 Speaker 02 I've never driven one of the Fiskers. The Fisker guy, it's an individual, it's a couple.
11:02 Speaker 03 I did put a deposit down on one, by the way.
11:04 Speaker 02 Did you?
11:04 Speaker 03 But I didn't pull the trigger, I was too nervous, yeah.
11:07 Speaker 02 Is a creative genius, but this is the second incarnation of Fisker, and both went insolvent, and so there are people that are brilliant minds, but it's hard to run an automotive business, and they couldn't make it work either time.
11:23 Speaker 03 All right, this is a tough one, too, Clark. Tara in Georgia says, "Help, Clark, my sweet 78-year-old mother has fallen in love with an online scammer and has already lost $60,000 of her money by sending/wiring it to him. It was all of her savings plus new credit card debt, because she willingly sent him money or huge gift card amounts when he requested them. The police said they cannot take any action. She has taken a line of credit against her home to pay off the credit card debt. My family has tried relentlessly to convince her that he's a scammer, but she doesn't believe us. We consulted a lawyer and got a joint trust to protect her home, the only thing she has left, but we're worried he could illegally take it from her because she's given him
12:07 Speaker 03 all of her personal information. We don't know how to help her any further, we're at our wits' end, it's really a nightmare."
12:14 Speaker 02 This is happening way too much. This is what's known as a pig butchering scam. The whole thing with the romance, looking for people that are older and lonely, it doesn't have to be older, but so often that's where it is.
12:31 Speaker 02 I'm really, really sorry Tara. Now, you went to a lawyer, but likely you didn't go to the right kind of lawyer to look at the overall picture for your mom. There is a rare kind of lawyer that specializes in what's known as elder law. There's even an association for elder law attorneys that you can see a list available.
12:56 Speaker 03 We'll put that in the show notes.
12:58 Speaker 02 Yeah, we'll put that link in the show notes for you. So Tara, you, if you have siblings, you need to get in for a consult immediately with an elder law attorney to see what steps you need to put in place to provide full, complete protection for your mom. A general practice attorney could be well-meaning and felt that this trust they designed was the best protection they could come up with. But an elder law attorney will deal wider with all the issues with your mom and will ask you, and if you have siblings, painful questions about your mom's current mental capacity and all that. So you need to do this quickly.
13:43 Speaker 02 Elder law attorneys are kind of in the high middle of cost per hour because it is a specialization, but the stakes of the game make it worth it. And I hope to hear back from you how things settle out for your mom. And I wish the best for you and for her.
14:01 Speaker 03 Yes, well, it's truly a nightmare. Well, we're going to lighten things up here with Chip in Massachusetts' question. He says, "I'm considering booking a family trip in May on Breeze Airways as the value for the price paid looks excellent. My concern is around the viability of some of these newer airlines, especially since my trip is more than five months away." When he wrote this to us. "Do you think it is reasonably safe to book with Breeze at this time?"
14:27 Speaker 02 This is a great question. So Breeze was started and is owned mostly, it's a privately-held airline, by David Neillman, who's the guy who founded JetBlue, a seoul in Brazil.
14:42 Speaker 02 Saved TAP Airlines in Portugal, was involved in starting WestJet in Canada, and now Breeze. Breeze is a whole new concept from others he's done in that it's a discount airline that uses brand-new, state-of-the-art aircraft, one of the most comfortable aircraft you can fly in the world, the A220. A lot of airline industry analysts are like, how are they ever going to make money selling bargain tickets, flying a state-of-the-art, expensive new aircraft? And so far, they have to do filings, even though it's privately held,
15:24 Speaker 02 with the USDOT. Breeze has lost a lot of money over its first three years. It is a very, from what I hear and what I read, a very well-run airline, but very much a contrast to the other airline that started at the same time. You talk about newer airlines, Availo, which is doing extremely well, also privately owned, and Availo and Breeze both use the same kind of business model, flying just most routes a couple of times, three times a week, and flying to a lot of leisure destinations that the full fare airlines
16:04 Speaker 02 don't fly on. Availo, by buying and using used airplanes, has made it to being profitable pretty quickly, and runs by looking at DOT stats, a very reliable operation. So, going back to your original question about buying a ticket on Breeze, so if you pay with a credit card, that normally gives you complete blanket protection for the first two months from when you purchase, but you're five months out. Historically, credit card companies have refunded money in the case of an airline failure, even if it is many months later. Now, David Neillman...
16:47 Speaker 02 Is very wealthy himself, estimated to be worth, depending on who you believe, somewhere close to half a billion dollars. This is a vanity project for him. You know, a new idea, new startup. And he's got a lot of wealthy friends that had put money into it. So anybody could go out of business, any company could. But as far as Breeze failing sometime in 25, or even failing for that matter, there's nothing that says that anything like that is going on. So if you pay with a credit card, you do that as a first precaution, I think you'll be okay.
17:31 Speaker 02 It would be surprising to me if they did fail. But the reality is, anything could happen. And it's a smart question you ask as to whether you should be concerned. You could wait till closer to your travel, take a chance on the fair, buy it within 60 days, and then you have no financial risk, not even a remote one, as long as you use that credit card. Coming up ahead, I want to talk about a shifting job market and what you need to know to protect yourself.
18:06 Speaker 00 UKG is the workforce operating platform with unified HR, payroll, and workforce management. Built to solve the unique challenges of frontline work. Powered by People First AI and decades of labor data, UKG turns workforce intelligence into real-time decisions around staffing, pay, compliance, and productivity, enabling every worker to confidently take action as work happens. Because when work works, everything works. Learn more at ukg.com/work. UKG, HR, Pay, and Workforce Management.
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20:05 Speaker 02 The US economy is a big, big, complicated thing. And the job market in the US has been the strongest in the world year after year after year. And coming out of the peak of COVID-20, far and away the world's best economy. Unemployment measures over the last few years have been unprecedented how low unemployment's been. Americans have not felt excited about any of that because inflation undermines confidence like nothing else. So think of the irony.
20:45 Speaker 02 Inflation is a fraction of what it was during the peak during the COVID shortages. And at the same time, employment is not as strong. The two have a correlation. But I need to tell you that the job market
21:06 Speaker 02 Still is very, very good if you look back through history. I mean, we have an unemployment rate in the United States, just a little over 4%. There are times in my lifetime that if you said, "Hey, you know what? I bet you in the future, we're gonna have an unemployment rate of 4%." People would ask, "What you been taking? You been drinking something you shouldn't drink?" I mean, people couldn't have imagined an unemployment rate that low. But people are finding that if their employer does go out of business, their employer gets into a little bit of difficulty and lays people off,
21:49 Speaker 02 or anything like that, that finding the next job is harder. And it's not just a thing that you feel, it's a fact. The Bureau of Labor Statistics, the federal agency that tracks all this, finds that it's taking, the average amount of time is about, gosh, almost six months, that people are unemployed after they lose a job. This is a big, big step up. You think about during the time period that employers were just wheezing, trying to find any worker they could, back a couple of years ago.
22:34 Speaker 02 And it was so weird, the employers were hiring people when they finished schooling, if it was in a path that they wanted. Were extending offers to people when they didn't have a job for them to do yet, and paying them to do nothing. "We're not there anymore." And so, it means to be prepared. That's the Boy Scout motto, right? So, what do I mean by that? You need to be really, really thinking about having that good rainy day account. Being prepared for a period of time of an oops in your life. Oops come in all different shapes and styles.
23:16 Speaker 02 But most of us, even if we have a lifestyle that we could do it... Don't build up that rainy day money. But when I see stats like this from the Bureau of Labor Statistics showing lengthy periods of unemployment becoming a new norm, after you lose a job, even with only 4 point whatever percent unemployment, it means that you've got to prepare for how you're going to pay your bills if that event happened to you. Again, most of us kind of have a sense where we work, how secure the job is. But if you're not sure, or you know that who knows what could happen, think about this.
24:00 Speaker 02 Be careful with buying things you don't have to have, but you just think they're fun to have. In other words, rein in your unnecessary spending to make sure you get to that point that you've got that reserve. And I know that you'll hear that you should have six months in living costs saved, not earnings, but the living costs saved. If you've got zero pennies saved, you're like, why would it even bother? Well, nothing happens in a day. It's all about changing your perceptions and your habits. So if you've got nothing, you should work towards a goal of having a month's living cost saved. When you get to that month, then you worry about the second month and on like that. But don't, don't try to do it all at once.
24:45 Speaker 02 Because if you do, you're going to get discouraged and you're just going to give up. But the day you resolve that you're going to start building up that cushion, that reserve, is the day that you start reducing the anxiety in your life and creating more security in that life.
25:00 Speaker 03 Okay, we're good to questions. This one's from Andrew in Iowa. "I'm a 22-year-old listener, and I recently switched jobs and want to transfer my existing 401k funds into an IRA where I can continue to make contributions. I'm also interested in finding a high-yield savings account, getting a high cash back credit card, and investing in the stock market. Robinhood Gold for only $50 a year offers all of that. However, a concern I've found with Robinhood is you can't list contingent slash second Beneficiaries for your accounts. My question is, is beneficiary information, if it's not supplied, or if my listed primary beneficiary, my wife, has unfortunately also passed, what happens then?
25:43 Speaker 03 Would having a will with more details make sure my loved ones receive the rights to the money in those Robinhood accounts?
25:49 Speaker 02 Okay, so first of all, Andrew, at 22, all of these questions you're asking, this is incredible.
25:55 Speaker 03 It is.
25:56 Speaker 02 Most 22-year-olds are not where you're at yet. They're certainly not married yet, too. That's a lot.
26:02 Speaker 03 I wonder if, I was wondering if he meant he's been listening for 22 years, but maybe he is 22 years old.
26:10 Speaker 02 Yeah, which, which way?
26:12 Speaker 03 You'll have to write us and tell us.
26:13 Speaker 02 Let's go with 22-year-old.
26:15 Speaker 03 Yeah, he's been saving since he was young.
26:18 Speaker 02 Well, because you said Robinhood also, that tends to tilt very on people having Robinhood accounts. Okay, so you are probably the 10th person who's asked me recently about Robinhood gold. If you like, if you've been using Robinhood, you feel comfortable with it, you like it, doing gold is a good deal. You get the great credit card offer, and it is, it is a good thing. The problem with Robinhood that I have is it encourages a lot of trading, has a lot of negative implications. If you get into this cycle of a lot of buy, sell, buy, sell, buy, sell,
27:00 Speaker 02 and a lot of individual stock activity, which is not my thing. Can be your thing, it's not my thing. So if you like Robinhood, doing Robinhood gold, great. The issue with who would inherit? So if you choose not to designate a beneficiary with a brokerage, then your will becomes the document. So as long as you keep your will up to date, that is, in your case, a better way to designate what happens with your assets. A lot of people aren't aware that the beneficiary designations you create with a brokerage, a bank, a credit union,
27:41 Speaker 02 are superior to what you might indicate in a will. So you really want to think in terms of, if you are concerned about secondary beneficiaries and Robinhood lacks the capability, name no one as a beneficiary. And then lay out in your will what you want. And also, if you are 22 years old, not a 22 year listener, if you're 22 years old that you're already thinking about and having a will, I am so impressed with that, too.
28:16 Speaker 03 Absolutely. Shauna in Alaska wrote this, "I'm leaving my current employer in five months and relocating to another state. In the meantime, I have the option to contribute to an employer-sponsored 401-
28:28 Speaker 02 Wait, wait, I'll stop you right now. Leaving Alaska after you spent the whole winter there? And that's right when it gets beautiful? Oh, man. You should have left Alaska before the winter came, right?
28:43 Speaker 03 All right. So Shauna has the option to contribute to an employer-sponsored 401k plan where they match up to 3%. Is it worth contributing for such a short period of time? Or would you recommend I open a Roth IRA with Fidelity, for example? I currently have a 401k from my prior employer with Vanguard just sitting there without monthly contributions since I no longer work for that company. Also, I may work as a healthcare traveler next summer, so I likely will not be contributing to a retirement plan then unless it's on my own accord. I'm getting older, mid-40s, so time is of the essence. Thank you."
29:18 Speaker 02 Shauna, okay. What you said is typical. So, right now, you've got a 401k where you are. You're leaving that. You've got an old Vanguard 401k where you used to work, and it's sitting there. And we end up with these various accounts, especially now because people change jobs a lot more often than people used to. So you end up with these accounts scattered. So how would I answer the question? You've got five months left. The 3% match that you have right now with this employer you're going to be with the next five months- If that 3% is immediate vesting,
29:57 Speaker 02 which means you don't have to stay blah, blah, blah, a number of years for that money to vest. Or in a current year, you don't have to wait till January 1 of the following year for that year's employer match to vest. If you've got immediate vesting, then I want you to stay in that employer 401k for the five months until you leave. And that way, you'll be picking up 3% bonus money on top of what you're contributing. On the other hand, if you check and you won't get that money vested, and so the 3% is a
30:36 Speaker 02 phantom match that you're not actually going to get, then now is as good as any other for you to go ahead and set up your IRA with, you mentioned Fidelity, great, new Fidelity, and set it up with them. And then the decision you've got to make is whether you should do the Roth IRA or traditional. In most cases, unless you're earning massive amounts of income, single individual, more than a quarter million a year, you want to be in the Roth version of the IRA. Also, in 401ks, most employers now offer a Roth version of the 401k.
31:18 Speaker 02 Unless you're making that huge amount of money as a single individual, you want to be in the Roth version of the 401k wherever you work. It is harder with you being a traveling healthcare worker to keep up the habit. So, set up automatic deposits into your own IRA, whether it turns out to be Roth or traditional, so that the money gets there every single month, because you've got to build up that money for your retirement.
31:52 Speaker 03 David in Pennsylvania says it's a 55 year old worker who has had access to a simple IRA as an employer sponsored retirement account since 2016. I'm upset as to why simple contribution limits are so much less than 401k limits. I heard you celebrate the lifting of the 401k contribution limits for certain older workers in 2025, but simple IRAs seem to be left out again. I contribute the max, including catch up to my simple, which I think comes to $19,000 this year.
32:22 Speaker 02 Congratulations to you for saving that kind of money. That's fantastic.
32:26 Speaker 03 Yes. These pending super catch ups for 401ks will increase the difference between simples and 401ks to more than $12,000. Thanks in part to you, I also contribute to other tax advantaged accounts, including individual Roth and HSA. Why is there no parity among the employer sponsored plans? I feel like I'm being denied an opportunity that many others have to save. What else can I do to catch up?
32:51 Speaker 02 What a great question. And you're doing all the things. By the way, the big, big gap that you were referring to, I think it's only for people 61, two and three years old. It's a very narrow slice of people in their early 60s. But you bring up something so important. We have a jumble of alphabet soup, alphanumeric soup with all these crazy retirement plans that you could have this 403B or 457B, or you could have 401k. You have, there's even a 401A, you could have a SEP, you could have a simple, you could
33:34 Speaker 02 have a solo 401k, blah, blah, blah. And at some point in Washington, because most of the men and women in the House and Senate are pretty bright people, this is one that's been sitting there festering for a long time, simplifying and rationalizing how we save for retirement in the United States. And by the way, one thing about simples, simple, there's nothing simple about a simple. It's crazy how complicated the rules are that you have managed to work your way through it and put all that money into it. You should be really, really proud of. Is there any logical reason why you are allowed to contribute different amounts to
34:19 Speaker 02 one versus the other? No, there is no rational reason for it. And that's why it would be great if the people in the people's house were doing the people's business and cleaned up the mess of how we do retirement savings in the United States. Just my humble opinion. But thank you so much for joining us on today's podcast. I hope that you learned something today that is useful, helpful to you in your life. And we are one week from Christmas. Things get a little harried out there at the shopping centers this last week.
35:02 Speaker 02 Stay calm, keep smiling, and don't get into a fight over a parking space.
35:09 Speaker 03 Yes, get the steps in.
35:11 Speaker 02 And remember, the ultimate goal of everything we do here is save more, spend less, and avoid getting ripped off. We'll see you tomorrow.
35:25 Speaker 00 UKG is the workforce operating platform with unified HR, payroll, and workforce management. Built to solve the unique challenges of frontline work. Powered by People First AI and decades of labor data, UKG turns workforce intelligence into real-time decisions around staffing, pay, compliance, and productivity, enabling every worker to confidently take action as work happens. Because when work works, everything works. Learn more at ukg.com/work. UKG, HR, Pay, and Workforce Management.
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