Pod Insights The Clark Howard Podcast 10.02.25 SPECIAL EDITION: A tribute To Financial Mentor Jonathan Clements About this episode Today, we reprise Clark’s interview with beloved colleague Jonathan Clements from October 8, 2024. He had, and still has much to teach us all. An Honest Conversation About Death and Finance With Jonathan Clements Special Edition - Clark welcomes longtime friend and colleague, Jonathan Clements. A London born Cambridge University graduate, financial writer Jonathan Clements is the founder and editor of HumbleDollar.com and author of "From Here to Financial Happiness," "How to Think About Money" and seven other books. His vast experience and contributions include serving as financial education director and teacher in various capacities, and as the personal finance columnist for The Wall Street Journal. Mentioned on the show: Jonathan Clements, Longtime WSJ Columnist, Dies at 62 Saying Goodbye to the WSJ's Jonathan Clements Five Pearls of Wisdom From a Legend of Financial Writing HumbleDollar: Home / Humble Dollar - The C Word NY Times - A Money Guru Bet Big on a Very Long Life. Then He Got Cancer. Washington Post - Opinion Living was easy. Dying is harder. The WSJ’s Jonathan Clements Wants to Leave a Living Legacy Living Will and Durable Power of Attorney: Frequently Asked Questions Wills & Funerals Archives - Clark Howard Have a Kid in College? You Need These Legal Documents in Place Clark.com resources: Episode transcripts Community. Clark.com / Ask Clark Clark.com daily money newsletter Consumer Action Center Free Helpline: 636-492-5275 Learn more about your ad choices: megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Transcript 0:00 Speaker 00 I'm so glad to have an opportunity to present you a special edition of the Clark Howard Show. A year ago, a friend of mine was diagnosed with cancer. His name Jonathan Clements. And Jonathan was an unusual man, I'm saying was because he has just passed away from cancer. And through his year plus from his diagnosis that was certain terminal form of cancer, he stayed upbeat pretty much to the end and never stopped teaching. So Jonathan and I, almost a year ago to the day,
0:45 Speaker 00 did an interview about the journey of his life. And why his philosophies about investing only got stronger over time. And the lessons he had to teach you and me about money. And I thought, you know what? What Jonathan said a year ago is so important. He would love it that beyond the grave, his words are still there being shared with you and to inspire you. So right now, we're going to rerun as a special edition of our podcast and YouTube show.
1:27 Speaker 00 We're going to rerun that interview I did with Jonathan Clements a year ago. So without further ado, here is that interview. Today, I have a unique privilege to have as a guest on this special edition of the Clark Howard Show, the great, the one, the only Jonathan Clements, who is the premier personal finance writer, I mean, really ever in the United States. And Jonathan has had this special gift where he's been able to teach.
2:08 Speaker 00 As fellow Americans about everyday money and complicated investment decisions in plain, simple English, the complete opposite of how the financial sector works. But this is a special visit with Jonathan because Jonathan got an ugly, ugly bit of news earlier this year, diagnosed with terminal, essentially untreatable lung cancer that was genetic, not from being a lifelong smoker or anything like that, and has so many lessons that he wants to share with you about how you build financial security and how you
2:52 Speaker 00 deal with something we never like to talk about, and that's facing our ultimate demise. But we all are going to someday unfortunately pass away, and are we leaving a mess behind for the people we love, or are we leaving things clean? So with that preamble, it's so wonderful now to be joined by Jonathan Clements. And as a fellow American, you should explain first why you have this pseudo-English accent.
3:25 Speaker 01 So Clark, I was born in London, but my parents moved here when I was relatively young, but then I was dispatched back to boarding school in England where they beat the American accent out of me. That's what nine years at a British boarding school will do to you. I've been back in the United States since 1986, and slowly but surely, the American accent has crept back in such that when I do go to the UK these days, they actually think I'm American, and I'm more than happy to be thought of as Americans, seen as there's something about the Brits that, yeah, I'm not that crazy about at this point in my life. In terms of my career and my diagnosis, 30 years ago, in 1994, I became the Wall Street
4:09 Speaker 01 Journal's personal finance columnist, and I became famous or infamous or renowned for relentlessly advocating for indexing. I was known as the guy at the Wall Street Journal who just couldn't stop pounding the table for index funds. Here I am, three decades later, and suddenly, at the end of my career, I've become renowned for dying. It's a very strange twist, but that is where I am. I was diagnosed with stage four lung cancer back at the end of May. And I've been writing about my diagnosis and some of the implications, financial and otherwise, ever since. And to my surprise, this has really caught people's attention.
4:54 Speaker 01 I've had a surprising amount of media attention. The New York Times wrote me up, the Washington Post asked me to write an article for them and so on. And it really makes me scratch my head, like, everybody dies. And yet somehow, being open about the fact that you are facing your own mortality seems to caught people's attention and created a lot of, lot of interest and a lot of curiosity.
5:22 Speaker 00 I mean, extreme, because you talk about it like, yeah, I'm, I'm going to the market and I'm going to pick up some milk and some eggs. I mean, you talk about it with such a matter of fact nature, where most humans just can't really, even if they know somebody's dying or they themselves are dying, they just can't utter the words. They'll say things like, if something happens to you, or if something happens to me, I don't know what, what happens to me or happens to you means. It's just something that is, it's so difficult for us as people to discuss. And you talk about it like, yeah, so I'm dying, so this is what's happening.
6:05 Speaker 00 And I think that is what has created so much interest, because you face so openly what so many of us dread discussing and fear happening. And you're like, yeah, so I got unlucky. I got this bad set of genes and I'm not going to be with you anymore.
6:31 Speaker 01 So let me ask you a question, Clark, before I pick up on what you're saying, which is, why is it you think that people don't talk about it? Why is it that, you know, they would rather talk about something else? Is it denial about of death? Is it shame? What do you think it is?
6:46 Speaker 00 Fear, complete and total fear. I think that it is normal. I have always, I identify so much with what you're doing because I've always been pretty matter of fact about this. And it freaks my wife and my family out. And my wife says, oh, there you go again, talking about when you're dead. And so I have always just looked at it as something, you know, I prepare for it. My wife is 15 years younger than I am. And in her family, women in particular, live to 100 years older, older. I know she's going to have a long time without me.
7:27 Speaker 00 So I've always thought about making financial decisions based on making sure she's okay when I'm not, when I'm gone. And so, you know, when I first heard from a mutual friend of ours about your cancer diagnosis, and he was falling apart, to tell you the truth, he was just, just so upset. And I said, you know, this is going to happen to all of us. And he didn't appreciate that I was talking about it that way. But I think, I think it's really important because you were laying out in simple terms, you know, I should have done this, I should have done that, I did this well, all that, and just laying it out for other people and having them look at something they don't
8:12 Speaker 00 look at, that's what I think it is that, that has struck such a chord. Particularly, you talked about, you know, the Post and the Times, Times doing a profile on you, the Post wanting you right. Because to people who work in your space, you know, writing about personal finance, they're like, gosh, this is the best communication I've ever seen about taking care of yourself, your family, and their financial needs. So you asked me why? I think that's why.
8:44 Speaker 01 So coming to the, what you're saying about your wife, I've had the same issue with my wife Elaine, which is she doesn't like talking about all of this. And as I've come to appreciate, you know, if you're the one that's dying, in some sense, you have the better half of the bargain because you're not going to be the one who is left behind. And, you know, for my kids and for Elaine, you know, the notion that there is going to be a life beyond me and they are going to be alone and they're going to have to grapple with the world on their own is indeed scary. Whereas, you know, I only get one half of that bargain. I get the part up until I die. So as I say, in some sense, it is the better part of the bargain.
9:27 Speaker 01 Added to that is, you know, I don't want to spend whatever remaining months I have in despair. I don't want to spend it being angry at my diagnosis. You know, I want to make the best of every day that I have. And I'm not going to have great days if I sit around and consumed with denial or with anger or with shame or with any of these other emotions. I get up every morning and I say to myself, what is it that I want to do today that's going to make this a good day? And actually, you know, what I discovered was I want to keep doing what I've been doing up until now. I love the work that I do, you know, I love hanging out with my wife, with my kids.
10:11 Speaker 01 I love, you know, exercising, going out in nature and so on. I love that first cup of coffee in the morning. You know, I love sitting down with Elaine at night and having a glass of wine. These are things that I've done my entire life and which I love doing. And I plan to keep doing right up until the end because this, this is the source of happiness for me.
10:31 Speaker 00 So you had planned for a life, living to potentially 90 or 100, making sure you had your finances all around. And, and I am going to turn 70 next year and I've never taken a social security check. And I'm waiting to the last possible minute to get the largest benefit. And anytime I talk about that, people get quite a, quite a bit of feedback, people that are like, What are you doing? I mean, what happens if you die a day after you turn 70 and you never took that money? You lost potentially eight years of receiving that money. And here you are, you've saved all these years with expecting a trend line to take you, a path taking you to 90 or 100.
11:15 Speaker 00 And you're going to make it into maybe if you're, if you're lucky into your mid 60s, you're 61 right now?
11:24 Speaker 01 That's correct.
11:24 Speaker 00 Yeah. And so what do you say to people who say, you know, you, you did all this planning and, and you did all this and you denied yourself all these things, all these years. And now you're not going to be able to have the fruits of any of that.
11:40 Speaker 01 So, yeah, I was extremely frugal for most of my adult life. I mean, for 20 years, I lived in a house that was far less expensive and far smaller than I could afford. And that allowed me through those 20 years to save great gulps of money. You know, I have a seven figure portfolio that will not pay for my retirement. It will pay for the retirement of my kids and my wife. That I am not going to enjoy that money. But I would say to you, Clark, you know, money buys happiness, but not in the way that people think. You know, you're not going to buy happiness at the shopping mall. How does money buy you happiness? Well, the number one way it buys you happiness is it gives you a sense of financial security. If you want to buy happiness, don't spend it.
12:23 Speaker 01 If you have the money, you'll have that sense of security that makes us happy, that gives us that sense of comfort that things are going to be okay in the future. So do I regret not spending much more in the past? No, not at all, because I have this pool of money that makes me feel safe. On top of that, you know, I've long known that, you know, buying stuff for myself doesn't deliver nearly as much happiness as giving it to other people. So the fact that the money that I've saved will end up making my kids feel more financially secure, will ensure that Elaine has a comfortable retirement. That's going to give me much more happiness than having that money and rushing off to the shopping mall this afternoon.
13:08 Speaker 01 On top of that, when you think about what money can do for you, I think the two other things that I would emphasize is beyond giving you a sense of financial security. Uh, it can allow you to have special times with friends and family. One of the things that I did almost immediately after the diagnosis was to book a long weekend away with my kids and their families and with Elaine. We went away and we had four special days together at a, at an expensive resort. And yeah, it was expensive, not my normal frugality, but we all had a great time together. I think that's a great use of money. And the other thing that money can allow you to do is to spend your days doing what you love.
13:46 Speaker 01 And one of the reasons that I've been able to, you know, run the website that I do and write the books that I do and, you know, occasionally come on the Clark Howard Show is because I managed to save a lot of money early on and I bought myself the freedom to spend my days as I wish. And that is, that is a great thing to have. You know, next time you go to the store or you look online at one of those shopping sites, think to yourself, okay, I could spend this money now. Wouldn't it be great if I save the money in ten or twenty or thirty years down the road? I could choose to do anything I want during the day without reporting to a boss or anybody else. Isn't that so much better than the shoes you're about to buy?
14:27 Speaker 00 How can I argue with that? And I mean, I think you're inspirational to people, just hearing your attitude and everything you said about living on less than what you make. When we come back, I'd like to drill down to specifics. What are the things that you've discovered that, gosh, I thought, I mean, I, I've spent my career teaching personal finance. I thought I had it all together. And then when I got this diagnosis, I should have, I realized I should have done this, this, this, this and that. So let's talk about that straight ahead.
15:06 Speaker 00 So Jonathan Clements, I just can't thank you enough for continuing to serve people like you always have in a different way now, talking about all the things involved with end of life and, and your philosophies, the way you're thinking about things. Absolutely. No self pity. One of the things I really loved and one of the things you wrote is, I don't need somebody to call me and tell me about what terrible things I have coming for me, or how bad they feel for me. You know, you don't want a pity party at all. You, you
15:47 Speaker 00 want to use this time to continue to educate. And that is, that is really something. I mean, that is the ultimate in selflessness. So one of the things you alluded to in one of your articles on your website, humbledollar.com, is that you realized when you got into the details of what you have to do end of life, that you thought you had it all buttoned up, and you didn't.
16:16 Speaker 01 It's absolutely true. You know, the, the cobbler has no shoes. I got back from the hospital and I started thinking, okay, I've got to make sure everything's in good shape for Elaine and for my kids. And I discovered that, you know, if I had keeled over, it would have been much more difficult for them to sort out my financial affairs than I had thought. I'd be, did I have a complete list of all the insurance policies? Did I have a list of my financial accounts? You know, was that all readily available for them? And the answer is no. And in the months since my diagnosis,
16:55 Speaker 01 I've done countless things to try to make things simpler for my heirs. For instance, you know, I had four credit cards. I cancelled two of them because I know it's much easier for me to cancel those credit cards than for them to do it after my death. Similarly, I made Elaine the joint owner on my various checking accounts so that, you know, when I go, they can immediately pass to her without going through probate or dealing with, you know, a lot of paperwork nonsense. I had a solo Roth 401K, which had been funding for a number of years. I was like, I'm not going to fund this anymore. You know, I'm not, I'm not saving for the future anymore. So I rolled that into a Roth IRA so that that was one less account that, you know, my executor would have to deal with after my death.
17:40 Speaker 01 I also got a new will. Now, this is, this is really an admission, Clark. I didn't have a healthcare power of attorney or a durable power of attorney. I was like, ah, get that down the road. I've got it, got it in the, the month since my diagnosis.
17:53 Speaker 00 Let me interrupt you there for one second on the, what you just said with the durable power of attorney for healthcare, the directives, all that. Almost nobody ever does that, or they, they go out of date. And what, what do you think that is that you had not done one? And that this is what you do for a living? And almost nobody ever does those documents.
18:18 Speaker 01 Maybe it's, maybe it's denial. Maybe it's what you were talking about, fear of death, but, you know, I always thought, well, there's still time to do that. You know, I'm only sixty-one. I'm not going to die anytime soon. I don't have to worry about this stuff. You know, I've had a will for more than thirty years, but I, you know, I've had the right beneficiaries on my retirement accounts and so on, but I just hadn't bothered with those documents. Yeah, it was wrong. But I do have them now, and I would encourage people to do that. In fact, this is a, this is a tip that blew me away. You know, if you have kids who are eighteen or older, which is the, the age of majority in a lot of states.
18:57 Speaker 01 If, say, they go to college and they're in an accident and they end up in the hospital, you as the parent may not be able to get any information about them unless they have, you know, medical directives that say, yeah, release information to my mom and dad. So you may not think an eighteen-year-old needs a healthcare power of attorney, but perhaps your kids do if when they go off to college.
19:19 Speaker 00 And I'm sorry, I interrupted you right in the middle of your train of thought of things that you realized you should have done.
19:25 Speaker 01 So one of the things I did two days after I got my diagnosis and I got home from the hospital, I sat down with my two kids and with Elaine and I told them about what they could expect, you know, I drew up a little one pager listing, you know, how much money each of them would get, what form it was in and so on. And I imagined, because I'm a financial nerd, that this would be a very straightforward conversation. But if you're a financial nerd, you probably do not realize what other people don't understand. They don't understand what does it mean to go through probate or not go through probate? What's the difference between a traditional and Roth IRA? All this stuff that is like,
20:06 Speaker 01 you know, living and breathing to me, you know, is gobbledygook to most people. So when you have that big family discussion, expect there to be another big family discussion two days later and two days after that, because a lot of what you talk about will not sink in and there will be a whole lot of questions. Don't imagine that you can sort it all out with one final conversation. I've had countless conversations with my kids and with Elaine in the weeks since I got my diagnosis.
20:36 Speaker 00 So I hear a lot from people that, oh, well, I'm just gonna have my wife call our financial guy, or a phrase like that. And they leave no paper trail really behind. Why is that something that freaks me out and I assume freaks you out?
20:54 Speaker 01 So one of the problems with that approach, which may have been more effective 20 years ago, it doesn't work today because there is no paper trail. It used to be that after somebody died, they'd just watch the mail for a couple of months and they'd figure out what the person had. Now, nothing arrives in the mail. You know, it's all arriving in your email inbox. You may know what you have, but it won't be easy for your heirs to track down precisely what you were. And so, yeah, you know, all those utilities, all those financial accounts, all those credit cards, all those bank accounts, you need a list so that they know what there is, because otherwise, stuff is gonna fall by the wayside and you, next thing you know, you'll be scanning some list of lost property, you know, three
21:38 Speaker 01 decades from now and discover that that's where grandpa's, you know, million dollar Vanguard IRA is.
21:44 Speaker 00 You know, I have, I had a very close friend who also died of a terminal illness. And when he got his diagnosis, I went out to see him and he showed me that for years, he had a three-ring binder with these plastic sheets in it. And he would put with tabs, he had in it everything that his survivors would have to deal with and his widow would have to deal with. And that kind of thing is so rare. I mean, he's the only person I've ever known who organized things on an ongoing basis.
22:27 Speaker 00 And it goes back to what we started with, this idea that, you know, we're not going to live forever and you don't get to choose because you used to be a bike rider. You got hit on your bike once, right? You had a bad fall?
22:40 Speaker 01 More than once.
22:41 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, you could have been-
22:43 Speaker 01 I had multiple accidents, put me in the emergency room.
22:46 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, you could have been taken out by one of those. And what would have happened then? And so I've had this thing for a long time that people don't want to hear from me, which is have some kind of method and that your loved ones know about where you keep records going forward. So what he did with the analog way of doing it, sounds so antiquated. How would you guide people to make sure that your survivors had that information if like they were out, you know, on a bike or jogging or something and they just instantly died, however?
23:24 Speaker 01 So I have a little metal fireproof box and in it I have key documents, birth certificate, social security card. I have a list of all my accounts, not just financial accounts, but also utilities, the usernames and passwords, did it for the different insurance policies I have. It's not a huge stack of information. I have my will in there as well. It's all in this one box and my kids and Elaine all know where the box is. And that will- Be the key starting point that will give them the list of all the utilities, all the financial accounts, all the bank accounts, all the insurance policies. And that should allow them to start to close out my financial life.
24:08 Speaker 01 One of the other things I've done in the last couple of months is to have Elaine, you know, added to all of those accounts so that they're joint accounts now, so that, you know, she will have access. The other thing I've said to Elaine is, don't, don't cancel my cell phone plan. You keep it alive for a little bit because in many cases to get into these accounts, you need to factor authentication. And if she gets rid of my cell phone, she won't have access to these accounts.
24:37 Speaker 00 So anything else is you have started thinking about you, you don't have a time certain. How long you're going to be with us on earth? Are there other things that keep occurring to you that people should be thinking about? If they have aging relatives, whatever the circumstance that you're like, oh, I'm so prepared, but I didn't think of this, that, or the other.
25:02 Speaker 01 So there's also the negative aspect to this, which is anything that you don't throw out, your family is likely to think it is important. So for instance, you know, I had down in my basement, no longer, but I did have, you know, tax returns going all the way back to 1986. There is no reason to have your tax returns going back all the way to 1986. You know, seven years is just fine, but I could imagine, you know, my kids and Elaine going down there and say, well, you know, he knew what he was doing. He kept all this information going back to 1986. Maybe this is important. Similarly, if you keep your old copies of insurance policies, those declaration pages and so on, which I used to do, you know, they might think it's important. It's not.
25:45 Speaker 01 I would also say the same thing about any personal papers you have, you know, anything along those lines. If you keep it, they may think it's important. It may also have stuff about you that you really don't want your family to know. You know, if you want to make sure that, you know, you leave behind the memories that you want your kids to have, you know, go through those old love letters, you know, go through. You know, the stuff that's in those boxes in the basement. I don't know why I did this. I found this box down in the basement where I had Christmas cards from nineteen eighty six. Why did I keep Christmas cards from nineteen eighty six? It's absurd. So I've, you know, thrown out all of that. There's a lot of stuff like that, that, you know,
26:30 Speaker 01 even though I've moved four times in the last twelve years and I thought that I had shed tons of stuff over the past dozen years, I still found stuff that's like, huh, why did I keep that? Why is that there? Why didn't I throw that out years ago? And trust me, you know, if you think it's a struggle to go back through those old letters and read what, you know, your grandfather wrote to you in nineteen eighty seven, you know, or your mother wrote to you while you were at college, if you find it a struggle to, you know, take the time to read those, your kids aren't going to want to look at that. So just get rid of it. I, through those four moves, have thrown out, you know, a ton of stuff. And I will say this to listeners.
27:14 Speaker 01 There is nothing that I have thrown away over the past dozen years that I have any regrets about. I don't sit here today and say, oh, I wish I didn't throw out that knick knack I bought in Paris in eighteen ninety six. Nothing like that, you know? Everything I've thrown away, I've been happy it's gone and I have not wished it back.
27:36 Speaker 00 So I got a really tough thing I want to ask you. And that is, have you made your plans or decided what you want to have happen at the time of your death? How are you handling that?
27:53 Speaker 01 I've told Elaine that, and my kids, that I want to be cremated. And I know you're not a huge fan of Philadelphia Park, but I've told them that they can take my ashes and they can dump them in the Schuylkill River. And the only thing that I've asked is, outside our little row home, there is a, there's a tree with a, you know, a place where I typically plant, you know, daffodils in the, in the fall, and then, you know, I plant impatiens in the summer. And there's a bench that's, you know, opposite the tree. And I've said, if you want to get a stone and put my name on my dates on it, and you can just put it in the middle of that little tree plot. And if you or the kids want to sit on the bench and, you know, talk to me after I'm gone, that'll be the place to do it.
28:34 Speaker 00 I am just in awe of you and how you're handling all this. This is, this is really so important for people to hear. And I appreciate it so much. And you write continually about your journey through this phase of your life. And at the same time, you keep writing about important things with personal finance. Will you explain your nonprofit, Humble Dollar, and what's available to people there?
29:04 Speaker 01 So Humble Dollar is this website that I launched at year end 2016. It's been going for, you know, coming up on eight years. And it's essentially a, you know, a blogging website. I also have a forum where readers can post comments. What we're really trying to do is have a sort of discussion about personal finance that is holistic. It's not just about which stocks are going up or down, which was nobody knows anyway. It's about people's broader financial life. And it, one of the things that I really emphasize is, yeah, I'm not looking to have people screaming yell at each other, you know, on the site. I don't, looking for people to express their political views.
29:48 Speaker 01 In fact, I ban people from the site if they start going off about, you know, everybody on the right is a looney tune or everybody on the left is a looney tune. Really trying to have a intelligent, thoughtful, human discussion about money. Come on, can I just bounce back to what you were saying about, you know, how I'm approaching this period of my life? So, you know, my, you know, I hang on, you know, the next blood test, the next abdomen scan, the next brain MRI. And so far, the news has been good. You know, the indication is that I'm going to get more than the year I've been promised. And because I've seemed to be getting more than the year I was promised, you know, we make travel plans.
30:32 Speaker 01 So, you know, we just went to Ireland, we're going to go to Paris, we're going to go to London, and we're going to take a cruise early next year. We're planning to go back to Ireland. And with every trip, you know, of course, I get excited about the future, right? That's a so I I'm torn between acceptance of what's happening to me and the excitement to these trips and the future promise. And one undermines the other, and I'm really battling with that. I don't want to get too excited about the future because there isn't going to be much of one. I want to be in this position of acceptance. And I do think that there will be this day when I go
31:13 Speaker 01 and my blood work doesn't look quite right, or I go and I get a brain MRI and the lesions have started to spread on my brain again. And I can't tell you how I will I will cope with that. You know, I have some equanimity right now. But you know, that equanimity could get blown apart when I know that, you know, the end is going to be near. I I I've been trying to think through it, and I'm just not sure how I'm going to handle it.
31:38 Speaker 00 Well, Jonathan, I hope that you way out kick the coverage, that you make it year after year after year. And at the same time, you are obviously expressing both things at once, an optimism of outrunning the initial diagnosis, and at the same time, a realistic picture. And I I think that's none of us know exactly how much time we have. And I love the humanity that you just expressed. And I want to thank you because, as I said at the very beginning, when you and I started talking on this podcast, you've spent your career empowering people, which is so important to me,
32:22 Speaker 00 teaching, instead of saying, oh, this is way too complicated. You'd never be able to figure this out. So you need me. No, instead, you've said, no, here are the tools. You're fine. You can go do this for yourself. And that now in this phase, with a whole new perspective on life, you continue to educate and I appreciate you so much and I appreciate what you're offering people so much. And I want to mention again, humbledollar.com is your website. It is a wonderful website, a wonderful read for people who are starting to learn about finance or are deep into it.
33:06 Speaker 00 You serve both and I appreciate it very much. And it's great to see you again. And I hope you enjoy every one of those trips you're on. The most important thing, I hope you got a deal on them.
33:21 Speaker 01 Well, Clark, I really appreciate the kind words. They do, they do indeed mean a lot, especially coming from you. So thanks for having me on your show. It's, it's been, it's always fun to talk to you.
33:30 Speaker 00 Absolutely. You have a great day.
33:33 Speaker 01 You too.
33:34 Speaker 00 I hope that you were inspired by something you heard from Jonathan in this retrospective from that interview, not long after he had been diagnosed with his terminal cancer. And I'm going to the funeral in a few weeks. And it's amazing how many people in money and finance were connected to Jonathan as friends and we're all getting together in Philadelphia in November for a memorial service. And even though everybody's experiences with Jonathan were different, one thing's the same.
34:17 Speaker 00 Jonathan was always this funny, goofy, intense, happy-go-lucky guy from early in his life to pretty much his last breath. And I'm certainly going to miss him.
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