Pod Insights The Clark Howard Podcast 06.30.26 Ask An Advisor With Wes Moss About this episode Is the bucket investing strategy the best way to plan for retirement? In this episode, Wes Moss breaks down the powerful visual behind bucket investing and explains why organizing your money into cash, income, growth, and alternative income buckets can simplify retirement planning. He also shares the biggest drawbacks investors should understand before adopting the strategy. Also, Wes tackles a growing trend: professionals looking for more flexibility, purpose, and balance through a second career. He outlines the key questions to ask before making a career switch and explains why financial advising is emerging as one of the most in-demand professions in America.
Plus, Christa shares your #AskWes questions and Wes gives his take. All this and more on the June 30, 2026, Ask an Advisor episode of the Clark Howard podcast. Submit your questions: WesMoss.com/ask
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1:06 Speaker 03 Welcome to Ask an Advisor, where we here on Team Clark go deeper on all things investing. I'm Krista Debiase. I'm here with Wes Moss.
1:15 Speaker 04 Wes Moss, everyone.
1:16 Speaker 03 Our key only fiduciary advisor here. And we have lots of your questions to get to. If you have a question for Wes, you can go to wesmoss.com/ask. And today, what's your talking buckets?
1:30 Speaker 04 Somebody on the Clark team actually asked this question of me, which was, I hear so much about buckets. Is there a downside to thinking about investments with a bucket approach?
1:42 Speaker 03 Okay. And then also, what we hear from a lot of people who are nearing retirement, they've heard you talking about core pursuits. What if you want to change careers? What if you want a part-time job? For example, you want to become a financial advisor because you're so interested in this show or Clark's show. We've heard from a lot of people like that.
2:00 Speaker 04 Yeah.
2:00 Speaker 03 And so you're going to talk about that.
2:02 Speaker 04 What are the three steps to becoming either a career change and/or a career change into being a financial advisor?
2:10 Speaker 03 I love it. Okay.
2:12 Speaker 04 Okay. So let's talk buckets. All right, let's talk buckets. So first of all, you probably know what I'm talking about, at least tangentially, which is, hey, I've heard about the bucket approach. Is it a good methodology to use? And what are the downsides? And what are the upsides? I think the two downsides are this. One, there's a lot of different versions of it. And I have a version, I've read other versions. There's a couple of books that are just about the bucket approach to investing. And I think that's the first issue. So I'm going to go over how I see the buckets and how I utilize them to try to get some clarity for our listeners and our viewers. That's one. Two, the other downside is that there's some complexity around them,
2:55 Speaker 04 even though they're meant to simplify everything. And buckets as a grand strategy, really, really helpful. But if you get too locked into making sure every bucket is the exact percentage that you need in each investment, it can be a little bit overwhelming. So I want to start with how I see them. And if you think about all the different complexities within retirement planning, tax planning, investment planning, accumulation phase, distribution phase, and then you've got to invest around that with your risk tolerance and your time horizon. That's like 10 things right there. So clearly, there's got to be some way to think about investing that makes it visually palatable and understanding.
3:40 Speaker 04 And I think that's what is the strong suit of when I'm drawing out buckets. That is why I do that. And so think of it this way, and I know you're listening, but if you just think about all the different complexities in the retirement planning world and the investment world, think of it as just four very simple buckets. And it could be a pail that you'd use at the ocean on the beach. Or I like to sketch these out. I've gotten better at it over the years. It used to be very rudimentary. Now I have some buckets that I pre draw that I can copy and paste. And thinking about how I can segment my investments very simply into four categories. And the first one, we already all know, which is just cash or money market.
4:24 Speaker 04 And that's the bucket that is there for total safety and that your income flows into eventually when it's time to retire. So that's the easy one. The other three of the investment buckets, one I call income, one I call growth, and one is alternative income. And those three are kind of the pistons of the engine that we're hoping grow the assets through only two ways. Krista, we've talked about the formula for total return, which we're all after total return. It's only two things. It's growth or appreciation. And then it's income, which is the faucet dripping into your account. That can be dividends. It can be interest. It can be distribution. So think of the primary inflation fighting bucket is the growth bucket.
5:08 Speaker 04 And that would be your percentage that you will have in stocks over at any given time. That is bucket engine piston, if you want to call it, that is the inflation fighter. And that can be growth stocks that don't pay dividends, or it can be dividend paying stocks. But you're getting appreciation, hopefully over time, and potentially some very real income if you're looking at dividends. Let's go next to the bond bucket or the income bucket. That's where you have investments that are meant to pay you interest and give you your money back over the course of time. And there's stability there, but there's a little bit of risk in that income bucket. Put those two together and you have one for appreciation, one for stability, but also to stay ahead of inflation.
5:53 Speaker 04 That's fixed income or bond investing. And then that third investment bucket I call alternative income. That could be energy pipeline companies, real estate, areas that don't neatly fit into the stock or bond category. Those also can appreciate. Those also can pay out cash flow or distribution. So put those three together and you've taken this crazy, complex, almost infinite world of choices into three simple categories. And I think that's the strength of the bucket system. And the two phases are very simple. One accumulation. So age 20, I think some of our listeners are starting to save at age 20, all the way to 60 or 65, when you stop working. These buckets are all connected, but I think that during that phase, I think of them as closed.
6:38 Speaker 04 So the money's not flowing into that first cash bucket. When you get into retirement. Retirement or distribution, the gates open and all those dividends and interest and distributions that cash flow can start flowing into the cash bucket, which is your checking account. And to me, that visual, I think, is super powerful. There's phase one of accumulation, phase two of distribution, and putting that together visually is really helping you determine. And you've got to determine how much you want in each bucket percentages, which goes back to your risk tolerance and timeline, but our time horizon. But if you think about the complexity of the world we live in, simplifying this down into just four very distinct investment categories
7:22 Speaker 04 in just good old fashioned buckets, I think it really, really helps to simplify a very complex world.
7:28 Speaker 03 Okay, let's go to some questions. Mark in Florida sent this one in. I'm currently 45 and am planning on retiring at 50. I know my retirement number, but have some lack of clarity on how much would be appropriate to withdraw during a good year versus a bad year versus the 4% rule. I keep hearing Wes mention sequence of return risk and that you should follow guardrails for withdrawal strategy from your portfolio. For example, you would spend more from your portfolio in a good year and less in a bad year. How do you determine what's considered a good year? Do you look back at the last 12 months of returns and look for a target percentage increase? For example, 6%? Do you look at several year average for your specific portfolio and determine if the portfolio
8:13 Speaker 03 is doing quote unquote, better than average? For example, it was down 10% this year, but it has averaged 12% over two years, so it's still up. Thanks for any further clarity you can bring.
8:24 Speaker 04 Mark, there's one very simple way to look at this. I think this is the most straightforward. If you are ahead of schedule, then you can always take out more. And this is why you got to start with planning. So if you've planned and you're saying, when I'm 62 and I'm going to stop working and I have, I plan to have a million dollars or a million and a half or 2 million, then if you're ahead of schedule, then you could always be taking more than you had planned for. If in five years, you're projected to have a portfolio that's, let's say, $2 million, but it's 2.2 million or 2.3 million because things have gone better than your planning assumptions, which often happens if you use conservative assumptions, then if you think
9:09 Speaker 04 about it, if you're ahead of your own plan, then to some extent, a lot of that is that excess capital you could take more of that would maybe go beyond the 4% rule. So that's the easy way to look at it. And that's why I love planning and giving conservative rates of return, because if you're ahead of schedule, it's always, it's easier to take a little bit more. If you're behind schedules, when you have to be careful not to go beyond that 4% rule. That's the simple answer. Another way to look at it is if markets have averaged 10, 11, 12% per year on average, if you look over history, if you have a 15 or 20% year, then that is clearly well above the average. And that's when you can start thinking, oh, maybe I can take a little bit extra this year.
9:55 Speaker 03 Okay, Brent in Nevada. Brent says, I've been contributing to my 401k at work, but it doesn't seem to be growing very fast. My company doesn't offer a match. Most of my retirement funds are tied up in an employer funded plan I don't have access to, and it's invested very conservatively with about a 6.5% return. My personal 401k Roth contributions through my employer plan have a personalized rate of return of about 9%, but I think that includes my contributions. So the rate of return is probably lower. I'm wondering if I should stop contributing to my 401k and invest in a Roth IRA outside of my employer plan to try and realize better returns. I always hear that using a broker or advisor
10:37 Speaker 03 yields higher returns. I've also considered using Robinhood to get the 3% match. I contribute about $1,500 a month, and I'm wondering if my 401k is the best option for investing, considering I'm in my late 50s and a little behind where I'd like to be for retirement. I'd love your thoughts. 401k or venture into a Roth IRA to get the best returns.
10:58 Speaker 04 Brent, the answer's both. The answer is both yes and yes. Very rarely would I ever see your own contributions get counted in your rate of return. If you're looking at your 401k or a brokerage account, or any sort of software that tracks that to give you a rate of return, it almost, it could, you can ask it to count your contributions or withdrawals, but rate of return is about how the money that's invested has done. So it shouldn't be counting what you're putting in. That's a kind of a false rate of return because it's you putting money in. So that's number one. Number two, you really should be doing both. Do not give up on the 401k. It's not the 401k's
11:40 Speaker 04 fault that the investments aren't doing well because almost every 401k I've ever seen in the history of the world has plenty of good options. It may be, and you had mentioned that your company funded plan is really conservatively invested. It may be that your 401k is too heavily weighted to super conservative assets. Maybe it's bond heavy. Maybe it's a target date fund that's already shifted much into safety assets.
12:09 Speaker 03 But 9% doesn't sound terrible to me if it doesn't include his contributions for the 401k.
12:15 Speaker 04 Yeah, but if you look, depending on when you're looking at this market.
12:17 Speaker 03 Right, the last few years.
12:18 Speaker 04 Yeah, the, the, over the past year, yes, the S and P 500 is up way above that. So it probably just means you haven't been participating in stocks at a high percentage. And it may be very much about your own mix. So just take a look at the mix and I would be saying yes to both. Do not stop the 401k. No, no, no. And yes, yes, yes, to starting and also doing the Roth.
12:44 Speaker 03 Okay. Jack in Missouri says, hi Wes, I have a target date fund that has an expense ratio. The TDF holds other index funds with their own expense ratios. Am I getting charged by both the TDF and the index funds? I have VFORX for reference.
13:01 Speaker 04 Jack, I thought about this. I've thought your same question over the years. And once every so often, I'll look this one up just because it kind of makes sense. If you open up a target date fund and it's got seven different mutual funds in it, and each one has an expense ratio. And then you look and see that the target date fund expense ratio is X. I've thought the same thing, man. I've thought, is that the expense ratio? But it's also 0.2 and 0.1 and 0.5 and 0.72. I've been there and I've looked this up. So I'm very secure in this answer, very sure of this. The mutual fund is going to publish the all-in expense.
13:44 Speaker 04 There's not another double dipping that's happening. If your target date fund is 0.12%, it's counting all of the underlying costs and all of those other components within. It's not going to be more than what is published as the parent fund, if you will, ETF or, and this goes for ETFs too. It's not just mutual funds. You're seeing the all-in costs.
14:08 Speaker 03 All right, we're going to take a quick break. And then when we come back, you're going to talk about potential second careers, side hustles, maybe even becoming a financial advisor.
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16:18 Speaker 04 Welcome back to Ask an Advisor, Wes Moss, along with Krista Debiassis. And you brought this topic up, which I think is a really good idea, on just second careers.
16:28 Speaker 03 Yeah.
16:29 Speaker 04 We get a lot of questions about that.
16:30 Speaker 03 We do, we do. And we hear stories from people too, or part-time work, or maybe one of their core pursuits is, I mean, volunteering is a little different, but you know, they don't want to completely get out of the workforce, or they want to try a new career they've always wanted to try.
16:45 Speaker 04 There are two ways to think about this. One is just career switching. And one is second act career, when you maybe you're further along in your planning, you've already saved a fair amount of money. And you can afford to maybe take a step down on income to have better quality of life. And Krista, I do see this all the time. And we, we run ragged in America. We work so hard and companies continue to ratchet up the expectation. I think a lot of people have noticed this. Wall Street Journal wrote about this a couple of months ago. Artificial intelligence as an example, what has it done? It's created more work for everyone and more expectation.
17:28 Speaker 04 So if you were contributing or producing five things a week, now your boss might be saying, you need 15 things a week because you can do everything faster and better, which is an interesting phenomenon. We have more pressure than we ever have. And that leads to people saying, look, I'm really burned out on my primary career. So I want to switch. So the first question to ask is, are you financially ready to downshift? Because it's very difficult to go from that 24/7 type job that so many of us have, making a hundred thousand or 200 or $300,000 a year, to doing something with a lot more flexibility than you actually like and still get the same amount of compensation. So it's usually for folks that are a little later in the planning
18:13 Speaker 04 phase and you can afford, you've already saved a fair amount, you can afford to take a little bit of an income step back. So the first question in all these career switches is just why? Why do I want to do that? And very often the answer is, I need to do this for my life and I need to do it for my family. And there's no better answer than that. There are no better reason than that. So I'm a big supporter of being able to do this. Number two, what are your transferable skills? Very often people can take what they were so good at and made a whole lot of money and taking those same skills and doing it in another industry or another career, and they are transferable, maybe for not, not the same amount of money,
18:54 Speaker 04 but at least some that continues to support your plan. And then three-
18:59 Speaker 03 I just mentioned one of those. It makes me think about it, becoming a teacher. Some people want to teach, you know, what they did in their career, but then they have maybe summers off and-
19:09 Speaker 04 Which leads me to the point of demand. I always think about, if you're going to do anything in the world we live in, sell a product or go into a career, think about the demand for that career long-term. So that's what sparked this. Yeah, there's a huge shortage of teachers and there will be for probably, who knows, forever. There's a huge shortage of people in the medical profession. There's a huge shortage in a lot of different industries. There's ironically a big shortage of software folks. You want to be in a career where there is a shortage, or there's a lots of demand for what you're going to be doing, which goes to another group, Krista.
19:52 Speaker 04 And if you're listening to financial podcasts like The Clark Howard Show and many other great podcasts, you're probably interested in money. So we get a lot of questions about people becoming financial advisors. And even though we answer questions here very often about do it yourself investors, here's the reality of the demand picture for financial advice in America. We have 11,000 people a day turning 65 this year. Those people, 51% of those people or more are using financial advisors. So more than half of the nation, and as assets go up, the percentage of those families with higher and higher net worth,
20:35 Speaker 04 the percentage of folks using financial or getting financial advice, seeking it, finding it, goes up and up and up. There is a huge shortage of financial advisors. I've read articles that we're 300,000 financial advisors short in the United States because it is a very popular career in the 90s. And the average financial advisor is getting ready to retire as well. So you've got a lot of people retiring from the industry, less people coming into the industry and more people getting wealthy and more people turning 65 than ever. So the demographics set up that there's a huge shift. There's three quick things to do. And if you've ever thought, and I'm going to try to talk Krista into
21:19 Speaker 04 becoming a financial advisor one day. First of all, you have to have the educational background, not necessarily financial education or accounting or finance or even business. But you do need to have a bachelor's degree. And yes, it's better to have it in economics or finance or something. But I know lots of great financial advisors who were history majors, biology majors, music majors, all across the board. But you do need a bachelor's degree. That's one. And the CFP. That is something that after college, you can go ahead and study for on your own and take the Certified Financial Planner Certification, which takes maybe a year, could take two or three years. Those are the first two steps.
22:02 Speaker 04 Is the education side. The second step would be you've got, almost have to get a job at some sort of financial firm to get the real world education of doing the trade, if you will. Lot of solo financial practitioners out there that didn't necessarily work for the big firms, which I don't know how that happened. Well, for every solo financial advisor out there, 95% of them worked somewhere first, before they went out on the roads. You've got to get the experience at a larger firm, which will help you also get your licenses. So this is the education, real world advice to get a license. And then three is working
22:46 Speaker 04 with a firm to build up a client base and start it. You're either maybe supporting a team that has plenty of clients that need lots of work to do. And there's a lot of those financial advice jobs out there, or you're building up your own practice and finding your own families to help. So those would be the three things. Takes a couple of years to get that done, but it's a great long-term career. Just looking at the demographics of the undersupply and great demand when it comes to financial advice.
23:16 Speaker 03 All right. Well, Amy in Indiana has a related question. She says, hello, how do I end my relationship with my financial advisor? Two years ago, I realized that I'm paying approximately $800 a month in management fees. So I took 15K, opened a Vanguard account, and with the help of Clark and West, started teaching myself how to manage my own investments. Through regular contributions and diversified investing, I've managed to grow that 15K to 174K. I have read just about every article on Clark.com has on investing. I listen to every one of Clark and West's podcasts religiously, and I feel like I'm comfortable managing all my investments on my own without the assistance of an advisor. I'm just not sure what the process is to transfer my various accounts from a financial advisor to my Vanguard
24:01 Speaker 03 account, though. Every time I look at these accounts, I feel overwhelmed. Please help. I appreciate Clark and West so much, and I'm so thankful to have found them. So how does she break up with her financial planner?
24:14 Speaker 04 Amy, it's, it's a very straightforward process. It sounds like you've got a bunch of different accounts, so that can be overwhelming. Let's say you have five, you may have 10 different accounts. What you need to do at the firm you're going to be using moving forward, you mentioned Vanguard, is open an account in the same name or the same titling as where they are today. That's the main thing you need to do. Then the firm, once you instruct them, you'll do paperwork for this. The firm, in this case, it's Vanguard, will, you'll sign the paperwork to move the assets and they will instruct the firm of where they are currently held. Vanguard will do it for you. Vanguard will break up with the advisor for you.
24:57 Speaker 03 Wow, so you don't even have to send them a text.
24:59 Speaker 04 Not really, not really. And as long as the account titles are the same brokerage account to brokerage account, IRA to IRA, inherited IRA to inherited IRA, Roth to Roth, in your name, let's say, as long as those match up, you can move the assets as they are. It's called in kind and the funds, ETFs, individual companies should go over into your new accounts as they are so that you're not having tax consequences.
25:28 Speaker 03 So the advisor just comes into work one day and all this stuff's gone?
25:31 Speaker 04 And Amy's gone. And Amy's just gone.
25:34 Speaker 03 Our money's gone. Good luck with that, Amy. Okay, Emma in Georgia says, for Wes, I hear a lot of having more invested accelerates the compounding effect, but I wonder whether that needs to be in one index fund versus having a little bit spread out across different funds. For example, does a portfolio with $100,000 in VT compound more quickly than one split between multiple funds? Like 50K in VXUS and 50 in VTI? Or does it not work that way?
26:04 Speaker 04 Yeah, there is a little bit of this. The way our brains look at an account, we hear about compounding. It's you want a big number that starts to compound on itself. So you get this visual of this snowball. The reality is mathematically, whether you chop the snow, let's say there's 100,000 flakes. Whether it's in one big snowball or 10 different accounts, the math is exactly the same. If you have four accounts with all the same investment and they're all doing the same, it will grow in aggregate the exact same amount mathematically as if it were one account or 10 accounts. The additional question you're asking is,
26:45 Speaker 04 Different investments. One's a total market index. I think one was a total, maybe an international index. That just depends on how that particular investment does. So there's no, no way to say that this ETF or this fund will do a little bit better or worse than another fund. But from a compounding perspective, it's all your accounts in aggregate that compound the same as if they were in one.
27:12 Speaker 03 Okay. Roger in Connecticut says, hi Wes, I have a question relating to target date funds. Tell me if I'm wrong. To me, target date funds are perfectly fine for the accumulation phase, but once you retire, I don't think these funds are good at all. The way I see it is that when you need to pull money, selling target date funds shares, you are selling both stocks and bonds. If stocks are in the toilet, you're selling them at a loss. It seems to me that stocks and bonds should be isolated so you can sell based on market conditions at the time. I had a CFP pushing this to me and I flatly refused, but perhaps I'm wrong. Thanks. I love the show. Don't tell Clark, but I prefer the content on Wes days.
27:51 Speaker 04 Roger, I like you for so many reasons. I love that you use the word toilet. If stocks are in the toilet, that's a great way to think about it. I agree. Yeah. I mean, if you are pulling money from your accounts, you're in this new phase, distribution, you gotta pull money out. Why wouldn't you want to be able to choose where you're pulling it from? And if you have one fund, it's the target date fund, which is a good, Clark and I've talked about this, they're good. They're not great, right? They're pretty good. All one size fits all type investments. They're pretty good and better than what people used to do. A lot of people used to do before target date funds were invented. So they're good. But when you're in distribution, why would you want to be selling everything
28:36 Speaker 04 when you need cash every month if stocks are in?
28:41 Speaker 03 The toilet.
28:42 Speaker 04 That's why you have dry powder, to sell that piece of the equation, to wait for stocks to come out of?
28:49 Speaker 03 The toilet.
28:49 Speaker 04 Exactly.
28:50 Speaker 03 Tempted to call it something else.
28:52 Speaker 04 You're right on so many fronts, my friend.
28:54 Speaker 03 Right. Okay. Well, that's it for us. Actually, that was the last question for today's podcast. Thank you for being with us. Next week, we're actually going to give Wes the week off, the week after the 4th of July.
29:04 Speaker 04 Thank you, Krista.
29:05 Speaker 03 And, and we will be back in two weeks with another episode. Enjoy the rest of your day.
29:15 Speaker 01 Your sausage McMuffin with egg didn't change. Your receipt did. The sausage McMuffin with egg extra value meal includes a hash brown and a small coffee for just $5. Only at McDonald's for a limited time.
29:28 Speaker 02 Price and participation may vary. Promotion pricing may be lower than meal pricing.
29:31 Speaker 05 They're running a cover two defense. But you're running to get game day deals on Uber Eats. Keep everyone at tonight's watch party fed with deals from your go-to restaurants. Or stock up with deals on your favorite snacks and groceries. Whatever the occasion, get game day deals on Uber Eats all season long. It's not football without food. Uber Eats. Order now. Terms apply. Product availability varies by region. See app for details.
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