Pod Insights The Clark Howard Podcast 05.21.25 The Airline Recession / Student Loan Repayment About this episode Travel demand has slowed and airlines are cutting service. Today Clark discusses the airline recession taking place, and the hazard & opportunity this presents for travelers. Also, Clark addresses some of the confusion surrounding student loan repayment. What you need to know if you or a family member has student loan debt. Air Travel Guidance: Segment 1 Ask Clark: Segment 2 Student Loans: Segment 3 Ask Clark: Segment 4 Mentioned on the show: 3 Reasons You Should Never Book a Nonrefundable Hotel Room Using Cellular Data Internationally: Buying a Local SIM Card The Best International Phone Plans The Best Phone Plan For You - Compare Phone Plans Clark,com Cell Phone Plans Why Clark Thinks These Are the Best 2 Travel Rewards Cards Right Now Scott’s Cheap Flights - Going.com NYTimes: Tips for Navigating the ‘Chaotic System’ of Student Loan Repayments National Association of Student Financial Aid Administrators How Many Credit Cards Should I Have? Why You Should Keep Old Credit Card Accounts Open My 7 Rules for Using Credit Cards Clark HowardClark.com resources: Episode transcripts Community. Clark.com Clark.com daily money newsletter Consumer Action Center Free Helpline: 636-492-5275 Learn more about your ad choices: megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Transcript 0:05 Speaker 00 It's great to have you here on the Clark Howard Show. You know, our mission is to serve you with advice and information that empowers you to make better financial decisions in your life. Today's episode, I'm going to talk to you about the recession that the airlines are in and other parts of the travel industry, starting to show hints of going into recession, and what that means for you. There's also a lot of confusion about the restart of collection efforts, interest accruing, payments required on student loans of all types.
0:45 Speaker 00 And I want to tell you what you need to know if you or a family member have student loan debt, what you've got to be doing right now. Okay, a lot of talk in the travel industry that they're already in a recession. Funny thing, one exception to that potential or possible recession they're in, cruise lines. Cruise lines are more surprised than anybody that their bookings have remained intensely strong. But if you flip from cruises, which ironically enough, they're completely discretionary, and their bookings are, at least for now, rock solid.
1:30 Speaker 00 The airlines, from the deep discounters all the way to the full fares, they're all singing the blues. And there are different reasons for different sectors. Corporations, because of the uncertainty of the economy right now, one of the first things they cut is what is considered to be discretionary business travel. So the full fare airlines, American, United, and Delta, are seeing a decline in bookings from their corporate customers. The discounters, the deep discounters, and leisure-oriented airlines are seeing a decline
2:14 Speaker 00 in bookings from their passengers, which are completely discretionary travelers.
2:21 Speaker 00 And so, all through the industry, there are airlines being brought to their knees. JetBlue, which is, if you could call it a premium leisure airline, they're really hurting for certain right now, because they tend to try to get a higher price from leisure travelers who are saying, "No go right now, I'm not doing that." So, the airlines are all either announcing or planning cuts in service. They're going to park planes in the desert if they have to. Some of the deep discounters are actually not going to fly at all certain days of the
3:06 Speaker 00 week. The soft travel days in the airline industry are Tuesday, Wednesday, and Saturday. You'll see a lot of flight cuts on those days. Got something to say about that. With the airlines cutting their schedules as we move through 25, there's an opportunity and there's a hazard. Let me deal with the hazard first. If you've booked a flight more than a month out, which most people buying a leisure ticket are booking more than a month out, if you've done that, you need to check continually that your flight is still going as scheduled.
3:48 Speaker 00 I'm already receiving schedule change notices for flights later this year. But a lot of people book through third-party sites, Expedia, Priceline, whatever for air, I'm trying to think of different third-party sites. Could be a credit card booking site, whatever. Not booking direct from an airline. Gets lost in translation a lot of times when you book through a third-party site, and nobody ever tells you that there's a schedule change. You're going to have to be proactive. The good news with a schedule change is, let's say you picked a flight because it was the cheapest. You know, at that time of day, it's not really the time of day you wanted to go.
4:32 Speaker 00 Well, if you have a schedule change on the flight for free, you can move to the flight you really wanted that was more money to book because the airline canceled your flight. If they discontinued nonstop service in the market you were flying, that's a whole different game because then you're between a rock and a hard place. You either accept a rebook that has you changing planes with the inconvenience of that, or they have to give you a refund, not a credit, they have to give you a refund. And then you have to start over booking a flight that you're happy with that's a nonstop.
5:14 Speaker 00 What I recommend is if you find a flight on somebody else you're really happy with, book it in that 24-hour period you have to cancel that new booking. No penalty, no cost, you're just out of that reservation. But you have that bird in the hand if you want it. If you have, the only reason you would do that is if you call the airline involved and you want your rebooking or you want your money back and they come up with an accommodation you're happy with, then you've got that 24 hours for the replacement booking that you did on spec to cancel it, no harm, no foul. That's a lot to say. Now, where's the opportunity?
5:59 Speaker 00 I said, that's the hazard. The opportunity? It takes a while for airlines to cut back their schedules and park the planes. So the airfare sales going on right now, domestic and international, have been really, really good of late. That's because airlines are flying around with excess seats. And so you can take advantage of that in this window before the planes are parked. I've noticed especially a lot of deals, we always have deals starting in early to mid-August, the back half of summer.
6:41 Speaker 00 There are more this year because again, it's before the airlines have successfully parked their planes and cut back the schedules, but they've got those seats to sell. Oh, and, and.
6:53 Speaker 01 And.
6:54 Speaker 00 I always say, "Reshop" every phase of your trip before you go. Especially helpful right now with airfare you bought a while back. To reshop it, either for a credit with the airline because the fares are cheaper, or if you can hold that credit because there's a much cheaper fare on another airline and you'll fly somewhere else on who you bought the original ticket on within a year of when you bought it, then you got that credit for future travel and a much cheaper flight for when you're going more currently. Hope that all made sense.
7:28 Speaker 01 Spencer in Illinois wrote in with this travel question. "I understand you recommend booking refundable options for hotels, flights, rental cars, etc. However, I always find the non-refundable options for these are cheaper, sometimes significantly. How do you decide when to book refundable versus non-refundable? Is it a dollar amount or a percentage you base this on? Or is it refundable for you no matter what? And is it different with hotels, flights, or car rentals? Sometimes it's hard to knowingly pass up savings on these."
8:00 Speaker 00 Great question. And so Spencer, here's the deal. Airfare, I do buy non-refundable tickets for the reason and the explanation I just gave. I travel so much each year that a credit, if I end up not taking that flight on that particular airline, a credit will certainly be used by me easily. It won't even be six months later. It'll be used. So, credits from me with airlines are fully portable. I'll get them used. If you travel very infrequently, then that becomes more of a problem.
8:38 Speaker 00 Hotels and cars, if you're booking significantly in advance, do not, do not, do not book a non-refundable hotel or a prepaid car rental. The car rental companies used to...
8:55 Speaker 00 Generally, if you prepaid a car rental, it was not non-refundable, you got a full refund as long as you canceled like three days in advance, or seven days in advance, or whatever the rule was. Now, the car rentals are getting much tougher, and they're charging from moderate to very high penalties on a prepaid car rental if your plans later change. Because the rates of cars and hotels, more often than not, drop closer to travel. That's where you especially want to book refundable. And then, when you're closing in days from when you're going,
9:37 Speaker 00 if you can then get a much cheaper deal on a non-refundable hotel or a prepaid car rental, go for it at that point, because the odds, the trip's not going to happen when you get within a few days, is very, very low. But further out, you don't want to be locked in, period.
9:58 Speaker 01 Yvonne in Florida says, "I will be going to Rome, Italy, to get on a 14-night cruise from Rome to Lisbon, Portugal. I like to stay connected and would like some advice on using a SIM card for international travel. Last year, I was on a cruise and purchased a Verizon Travel Pass for a month."
10:15 Speaker 00 Oh!
10:16 Speaker 01 Because I was going to be away for over 21 days. I had to pay over $500 when I got home. No idea what happened. I was told it was only going to cost $100. If you don't watch the YouTube show, you might want to tune in for this one. Clark is having a moment.
10:36 Speaker 00 You're killing me here. You're killing me.
10:38 Speaker 01 Okay.
10:39 Speaker 00 And it's your money, Yvonne, and you're killing me.
10:42 Speaker 01 I would like an alternative plan rather than using my current cellphone carrier.
10:47 Speaker 00 Okay, so Verizon is really expensive, just for regular service. And historically Verizon has been brutally expensive when you travel outside the United States. So if you're gone for a couple of days, but you're gone for weeks, as you found out, it's unreal. It can be more than the entire cost of your ticket to Europe, just for the extra fees Verizon charges you. Now Verizon does have a new ultra-premium regular plan that if you travel routinely outside the United States, offers better deals for use of your Verizon phone outside the United States.
11:30 Speaker 00 But if you are a routine traveler outside the United States, you need to do what so many of us on Team Clark have done, and that's switch to Google Fi, because then you use your phone outside the United States for data and texting, just like you're inside the United States at no additional cost. And right here in our podcasting YouTube showroom, who are you on Krista?
11:59 Speaker 01 Google Fi.
12:00 Speaker 00 Who is Sally on? Google Fi. I mean,
12:03 Speaker 01 What about Grace?
12:04 Speaker 00 Grace is not on Google Fi. She's on T-Mobile.
12:07 Speaker 01 T-Mobile, okay.
12:08 Speaker 00 She wants to overpay. But anyway,
12:10 Speaker 01 She still gets that free?
12:12 Speaker 00 She gets five gigs of data to use outside the United States on a trip. Okay, so,
12:20 Speaker 01 We just shamed her into considering switching.
12:22 Speaker 00 No, no, no, that's okay. She never travels outside the United States. Only like 60 days a year. Anyway, sorry Grace. So Grace, do you want rebuttal time? Are you okay?
12:34 Speaker 01 I am considering Google Fi. I have six people in my plan and only those are family members, so it's kind of tough. And I have a watch, so anyways, it's confusing, it's complicated. I'm on it Clark, I'm on it.
12:50 Speaker 00 You think about it, because I mean, you are outside the United States 60 days a year.
12:55 Speaker 01 You know, we have a cell phone plan tool on Clark.com where literally you can put in how many lines you need and it'll spit out the best deal.
13:02 Speaker 00 All right, so let's go back to Yvonne. Sorry, Yvonne, I'm sorry. We got caught up in the weeds here. So Yvonne, all right, with Verizon, with AT&T, and if you're on a long trip with T-Mobile, what you want to do if you want to stay with those companies is your phone can usually handle two SIMs. You buy a SIM when you get to whatever country you're going to, a SIM card, but now they're eSIMs, electronic usually. They cost almost nothing. Your 30-day trip would have probably cost you 15 euro or 20 euro for all the data you would have needed on your trip, instead of being ripped
13:41 Speaker 00 off by Verizon for 500 bucks, over 500 bucks. So just know, buying a local SIM is the smart way to go if you're going to stay for a long trip on one of our overpriced carriers.
13:58 Speaker 01 Tina says, "I'm planning on going on a Mediterranean cruise in the fall. My question is, should I get the Sapphire Travel Card? Or are there other travel cards that are better? I probably will be spending about $4,000 on the trip with the flights and everything pertaining to it. I have a high credit score, but I'm not sure if I should pay the annual fee associated with it, or if there's something better. Also, any good flight deals to Rome or close-by airports?"
14:23 Speaker 00 Okay, so let's deal with the first thing first. The Chase Sapphire Preferred is a great compromise card for people who travel not all the time, but want a travel-oriented card. It's not going to have free lounges and a lot of other perks that you get with the much more expensive Chase Sapphire Reserve. The Chase Sapphire Reserve is, as I recall, 550 bucks versus the Preferred at 95. The signup bonus, leading into your trip, spending
15:02 Speaker 00 that money for the trip on it, you will get the signup bonus that will be worth a lot to you in free travel or other stuff. So I think that is a good idea to get at least the Preferred before you would start planning and paying for features of the trip. Now, fares to Italy. Fares have been crazy cheap for fall over the last several weeks.
15:33 Speaker 00 Out of New York. You say, oh, I don't live in New York. So what? Because the fares have been so cheap out of New York, European fares in the 300s and 400s round trip for fall have been coming at us day after day after day to a variety of places across Europe. You can fly from most anywhere in the Midwest or the eastern half of the country to New York at very cheap round trip fares. You add that to the cost of a ticket from New York to Europe, you're not going to pay a lot of money. And because
16:14 Speaker 00 I want you to be safe that you don't miss your flight to Europe, you go maybe spend a day in New York. You pick up a bonus city and save money at the same time. At least that's what I would do. And if you want a constant bulletin of the cheapest fares that are popping up now principally outside the United States, but also some within the United States, I love going.com, G-O-I-N-G.com, used to be known as Scotch Cheap Flights. And no, I won't ever stop referring to going by its former name, which was so much better,
16:54 Speaker 00 Scotch Cheap Flights. Coming up ahead, we're going to talk student loans. That is not a laughing matter.
17:05 Speaker 00 It's been a weird five years for people with federal student loans. First, we had the trauma of COVID. Back then, Congress passed legislation back in 20 that gave people a payment holiday from student loans and a holiday from interest accruing on student loans. And that was extended, extended, extended, extended.
17:30 Speaker 00 And ended, but then efforts to collect from the over 5 million or 6 million people who are in default on their student loans, those efforts only just started the beginning of May. And so now it gets really ugly from here for the millions and millions and millions of people, both students who took out student loans and parents who took out parent plus loans. It's an ugly scenario. First of all, social security benefits can be seized in part every month against an unpaid loan balance that's in delinquency or default.
18:13 Speaker 00 And so the social security check bam, shrinks right before your eyes. They can seize your tax return, your refund, if you have one due from having filed your 24 return, student loan people can just grab it. You're not going to see it, at least in theory. And then wage garnishment. If you have a student loan in default, the feds can come into your employer with a garnishment notice and just start taking money from every check. They can't take your whole check, but they'll take a portion of the check. This is getting real
18:53 Speaker 00 and it's serious. And so what you're going to see is that sometime probably in late June or July, if the government's on time with what they expect, you'll receive a notice of garnishment, whatever they're going to grab. So you got a little window here to contact the default resolution group at the Department of Education. I know all the talk about killing off Department of Education, all that. Department of Education still exists, at least for now. We've taken act of Congress to get rid of it. And in the federal student aid office at the Department of Education, there's the default resolution group.
19:40 Speaker 00 The feds are going to send out these letters in a few weeks about how they're going to come down on you. Don't wait for those letters because then the default resolution group is going to be overwhelmed. You want to contact them now before the wave of letters go out. As to what they can take of your social security check or disability payment, it's 15% of each check. And so it depends on what type of thing it is, how much they can grab. They can take your entire tax refund, not just a part of it. So there's teeth here, real teeth coming after you. So the whole thing
20:24 Speaker 00 is to rehabilitate with the Department of Education, get out of default status and get into a payment cycle with them where you're taken out of student loan jail. And know that there's still repayment plans available for long term. If somebody's just coming out of school and the student loan payments you face under the standard payment formula are not reasonable for you, there are remaining under congressional statute, there are payment plans available that keep you current with your student loans, but keep the payments where you can afford
21:09 Speaker 00 them. And anything that Congress did, like any kind of loan forgiveness plan Congress did in the past, as long as it remains in effect, you can go into that. Public service loan forgiveness, still here. Some of the various plans are still here. Any that were done though by presidential executive order, those are not in effect anymore. So you may have to move from a payment plan you were on to a new one. This is something I want you to spend real time on. I don't want you to just let the noise of life and the busyness of life.
21:53 Speaker 00 Put these loans on ignore. You want to make sure you're handling them the most effective and efficient way you can, whether you've just started out paying student loans, whether you're paying as agreed, or whether you're in default, any of the three categories. This is a time you pay attention.
22:12 Speaker 01 Right. Sarah in Massachusetts says, "With kids in high school, I often see feeds and ads on my Instagram account for organizations claiming to increase families' SAI amount for strategic college financial planning. I'm pretty sure there's a cost associated with signing on with these organizations, but I'm curious if you have any experience or thoughts with them. More specifically, are they legitimate? Have they proven to help families and are their strategies for families legal?"
22:41 Speaker 00 Okay, so this new SAI, which is, I forgot what that, Student Aid Index?
22:49 Speaker 01 Mm-hmm.
22:50 Speaker 00 And it's this wide index with scores that go, I think, like to 10,000 or something, 99.99 or something like that. It's a new process as part of the newly revised FAFSA that now actually I think works after the time that it face-planted, when it was revised. So a lot of parents are just completely confused, particularly if they have multiple children. Because it used to be if you had multiple children in college, you got extra help on financial aid. Now they treat you the same whether you have one child in college or four in college. You don't get any credit for the fact you're already paying for these other
23:35 Speaker 00 kids. So that's led to an explosion in people's interest in getting an expert to help them. A lot of the organizations heavily promoting themselves online are just, they're not professionals. Let me see how I can say that. And there is a trade association for the student loan industry, NASFAA.org.
24:05 Speaker 00 N A S F A A dot org. What is NAS?
24:10 Speaker 01 I'll have to look it up.
24:12 Speaker 00 Anyway, it is a training body and, for lack of a better term, an accreditation body. And it is a private organization.
24:23 Speaker 01 National Association of Student Financial Aid Administration.
24:29 Speaker 00 Administrators.
24:30 Speaker 01 N A S F A A dot org.
24:33 Speaker 00 Dot org. So that would be a good place to go. Also, as people have said through the years, college student financial aid offices often know who are the legit people out there. Somebody will say, hey, you know, this person's really good. They used to work at our financial aid office. Now they do counseling for people looking for the most financial aid. So this is an area where, Sarah, the cost of college is mind numbing, crazy, expensive. So you need, if you do need an expert, you need to make sure you're getting a real one. And this is more art than science, but take your time and don't just respond to some online solicitation.
25:19 Speaker 01 Neil in North Carolina has this question. Do you want me to name this company?
25:23 Speaker 00 No.
25:23 Speaker 01 My question's regarding a big brokerage investment firm. I have been using my local small town office advisor for about 10 years, and he also manages my mom's account, also my grandparents before that, before they passed away. He knows my family well and always seems to have my best interests in mind. I'm 49 years old, and my wife and I have about 1.6 million that I think is pretty well diversified.
25:47 Speaker 00 Congratulations to you.
25:49 Speaker 01 Joint account Roth IRAs and traditional IRAs. I often think I must be paying more than I should in fees and commissions, or there's some other bad news about this big company that I'm missing, as not only is it not one of Clark's favorite three children, but I never hear him mention this company, good or bad, and I can't find any articles or opinions on your website. The silence is making me very nervous that I have my money in the wrong place and I'm being taken to the cleaners. Tell me I'm not being foolish with my money, or do I need to move to one of Clark's three children to still be a Clarkie? You're always a Clarkie.
26:24 Speaker 00 Neil, okay. The firm you're with, they're not bad guys. But they certainly wouldn't be one of my favorite children because if you enter into a fiduciary arrangement with them, their fees start at more than four times what Vanguard's fees are for you entering into fiduciary financial advice. Although with the amount of money you have, you would be paying even less, as an example, with Vanguard with a fiduciary financial representative. With the amount of money you have, you would be assigned a, I think you'd be assigned a dedicated financial planner working for you. So they're
27:08 Speaker 00 not bad guys. They are not necessarily the best guys. They're kind of in the middle of the herd of financial houses. The big problem is your returns over time will be lower because the expenses of having them handle your money are so much higher. At the same time that I've said that, your family through generations has been very, very happy with this firm, and I guess with this person you're with, and I don't want to spoil that relationship. Is it where I would go if I was starting from scratch? Not a chance. Would
27:50 Speaker 00 I dump somebody who you've had a very good working relationship with, and obviously you have been a good saver, living on less than what you make, investing well diversified, building up $1.6 million in your 40s? That's very impressive. So you may not want to upset the apple cart, just being aware you're paying more than you need to by a long shot.
28:17 Speaker 01 Keith in Georgia says, how many are too many credit cards? I've got four cards from the same bank to get fuel rewards each year. The rewards are only good for 12 months. Then I put a lock on the card and lock it away. Regarding credit score impact, should I cancel the old cards, wait for the bank to cancel them, or just use them once a year? I've got four other cards from different banks and only use this card for the fuel rewards for 12 months.
28:41 Speaker 00 All right, Keith, I love this. You are, you are saving every penny you can on gasoline. I mean, it begs the thought, shouldn't you be buying electric where you pay so much less for the equivalent of fueling your vehicle than you do with a gas engine car? But that's just my bias, having driven electric cars now 14 consecutive years. But yeah, you don't close any of those accounts. Keep playing the game of balancing like you are, so you earn the maximum fuel awards, and there's no danger with you having eight credit cards. Having a bunch of credit cards
29:23 Speaker 00 only becomes an issue traditionally if you're applying for a mortgage at some point. A lot of mortgage underwriters get freaked out when they see so many credit cards in the available credit mix for a potential mortgage borrower, and then you might have to take the harsh medicine of closing some accounts because the mortgage underwriter told you you had to. But otherwise, leave the cards open. Really, in terms of your credit score and credit mix, the more the merrier. And the good news on gasoline, because of the economy slowing, cost of filling up vehicles is going down. And the latest predictions
30:08 Speaker 00 I've seen on prices are really favorable as we move to the back half of summer, end of the fall, barring some catastrophic event in the world, that we could see the price of a barrel of oil drop another 15 to 20 bucks, which will be a significant decline in what you have to pay for a gallon of gas. So on that happy note, having to pay less at the pump, we're done with today's podcast, and I hope you found something today to be very useful to you. But I can guarantee you useful information if you sign up for our free daily newsletters.
30:51 Speaker 00 Let me repeat, they're free, but they're really packed with useful information, content that you can act on to improve your financial picture in your own life. All you gotta do is go to Clark.com/newsletter or newsletters. Either one of them brings you to sign up. And unlike other people, when you sign up for our newsletters, we make it easy. If you later say, "Gosh, I don't know why Clark was talking about those newsletters. I don't like them." We make it just as easy for you to unsubscribe as we make it for you to subscribe. So try that for some additional empowerment.
31:32 Speaker 00 Because no, no matter what we do, our websites, whatever, it's all about you being empowered with knowledge that gives you the ability to save more, spend less, and avoid getting ripped off. And join us Friday for Clark Stinks.
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