Pod Insights The Clark Howard Podcast 04.27.26 Why Millionaires Feel Broke / How To Spot 'Ghost Job' Scams About this episode Many Americans reaching millionaire status still feel like they are standing on shaky financial ground. Clark explains the psychological and cultural traps that can keep high earners feeling insecure - and how the "bear preparing for winter" strategy can build financial confidence. Also, with all the job scams and ghost job listings out there now, how do you know an opportunity is real? Whether seeking career change or a part-time gig, con artists are using fake listings to harvest your identity and your money. Clark reveals the red flags to watch for, including the essential "verify before you apply" workflow. Financial Confidence: Segment 1 Ask Clark: Segment 2 Job Scams: Segment 3 Ask Clark: Segment 4 Mentioned on the show: High-Income But Low Confidence? This 5-Point Plan From a Financial Planner Can Fix That Credit Cards That Can Beat 2% Cash Back on Everyday Purchases Earn a $200 Cash Bonus With This Credit Card - Clark Howard Where Should I Set Up My Health Savings Account (HSA)? Clark.com - CREDIT CARDS How to avoid a side hustle scam Why You Should Keep Old Credit Card Accounts Open - Clark Howard How and When To Cancel a Credit Card - Clark Howard Clark.com resources: Episode transcripts Community. Clark.com / Ask Clark Clark.com daily money newsletter Consumer Action Center Free Helpline: 636-492-5275 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Transcript 0:00 Speaker 00 At Edward Jones, we believe rich is about taking care of what gives your life meaning. That's why your financial advisor personalizes your plan to help you preserve your progress and create something that lasts. Let's find your rich. Edward Jones. Member SIPC.
0:15 Speaker 01 UKG is the workforce operating platform with unified HR, payroll, and workforce management, built to solve the unique challenges of frontline work. Powered by People First AI and decades of labor data, UKG turns workforce intelligence into real-time decisions around staffing, pay, compliance, and productivity, enabling every worker to confidently take action as work happens. Because when work works, everything works. Learn more at ukg.com/work. UKG, HR, Pay, and Workforce Management.
0:50 Speaker 02 I'm so glad you're with us on the Clark Howard Show, where our mission is to serve you with advice and information that empowers you so you make better financial decisions in your life. In today's episode, you may save and save, but you never feel like you have enough. What does it take for you to feel good about your finances? Later, so many scamsters out there taking advantage of people right now who are searching for jobs. There's something I want you to know about how easy it is today to get scammed by fake job listings. Talk about kicking people while they're down looking for a new
1:34 Speaker 02 job when they need one. So, opposite extreme here. In the United States, we have the largest number of people that are in the mass affluent category we've ever had. Incomes used to not be as widely skewed in the US as they are now. And we're in a position now where roughly 30% of Americans are doing, when you look at the income side, doing really, really well. And this is going to sound tone deaf to people that are struggling just to pay
2:11 Speaker 02 basic bills every day. But I want to address people who are earning what is a really good amount of money from a paycheck, or owning their own business, or however it is they earn their money. At the same time, for people who are, if I'm talking to you, you're one of the people who's making what seems like it would be a great amount of money and you feel insecure, you feel like, I'm not getting anywhere. What is that about? There's a thing about our culture that has only been magnified by the impact and influence
2:54 Speaker 02 of social media that Americans feel like even when they're making a lot more money, that they're actually, this is going to sound weird to somebody who really is struggling, but they feel like they're struggling financially. And part of it is illusion and part of it's real. So I want to drill down to you as an individual, wherever you are on the income scale, once you've reached the point that you're making enough to deal with life's basics, from that point forward, I want to talk about something that although it's not unique to American culture, it's more amplified here, that we tend to have a tendency here
3:37 Speaker 02 that as we make more, we feel like we have to show it in certain ways. What we drive, where we live, where we vacation, all that. You see it in when people that are from more affluent households are looking at where they're going to go or where they have already gone on spring break. And if you're in this category, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Well, mom and dad, they're going to blah, blah, blah. And we're going to that? I mean, there's these expectations that get built up as kids are around, kids who
4:21 Speaker 02 have more, there's a certain affluenza that takes hold. And there's also this thing where parents, even if they don't have kids, adults who are making more money, they feel like, If they're really going to fit in, in their income group, that they gotta add on this and this and this and this and this, and could be private club, could be having the fancy luxury vehicle instead of a regular vehicle, could be moving to a fancier house, a bigger house maybe than you're ever going to need. All these things happen that make us feel
5:02 Speaker 02 like we're losing control. And that control is lost two way. One, rising expectations. And two, the rising levels of debt. These two things are kind of in parallel, where as our income goes up, you know what should be going up faster? How much money we're putting aside? Because if we've already taken care of life's everyday expenses, the temptation's just too great to amp up life. But if instead, if what you amp up first is paying yourself
5:41 Speaker 02 first, and you don't have the temptation to have to buy a new fancy vehicle that maybe you can't afford to write a check for. Let me tell you something. If you're making big money, and you're buying a vehicle, it should be a vehicle that you can hand over a check, pay cash for. It shouldn't involve a loan or a lease. I'm not trying to guilt you here. I'm trying to deal with the insecurity factor. Where you take control more of your life, what's happening in your life. If you're in a position where you're in really nice earnings
6:22 Speaker 02 years, I want you to act like a bear preparing for winter and hibernation, in that I want you to store up extra money to deal away with financial insecurity, to build security in your life. Not that money is like something you should worship, but the absence of money is something that creates a lot of problems in life. And if you're making a lot of money, and you're still having to borrow to do this or that or the other thing. You got to rethink what you're doing to create that safe space financially in your life. End of lecture. Was that too guilt ridden?
7:06 Speaker 03 I don't think so. I think it's right. I love your phrase that you like to say, people sometimes want to be all flash and they have no cash, all flash, no cash. You don't want to be that way.
7:15 Speaker 02 And it happens a lot in families. There are a lot of people, the average American would be shocked that people that are living in the fancy neighborhood, driving the fancy vehicle and all that, are having to pay bills just like they do because they've adopted such a high octane lifestyle.
7:34 Speaker 03 Yeah. And it can be very stressful. Okay. Mary Ann in Pennsylvania says, my Experian credit score is eight thirty-nine. My oldest credit card is a Citibank with no yearly fee. I have an American Aviator slash Barclay credit card with no yearly fee as well. Citibank has told me the Barclay American Aviator account has been acquired by them. I believe this will make me have two Citibank credit cards, which I will be able to link in their system. The new card will have a yearly fee. I don't see a benefit to having two cards from the same bank. If I cancel either card, will it lower my credit score? I earned points with my American Aviator. I can't find a lot of information on the conversion, other than that the yearly fee will now apply.
8:18 Speaker 02 Okay. So, gosh, I've been asked about this a lot. Not, not here on the podcast, the YouTube show.
8:24 Speaker 03 No, not yet.
8:25 Speaker 02 But I guess I run into so many travelers in airports that they ask me about this. So this is how it works. The Barclays program is, as the portfolio is bought by Citi, there were two Barclays cards that had no annual fee. There's only one Citibank conversion that has no annual fee. So if you go to the, I don't know how much you like to fly American, but if you want to earn points on American and be able to fly for free, and American, by the way, has a much more favorable redemption system than the other two full fare airlines,
9:06 Speaker 02 Delta and United, you just contact Citi, tell them you want to have the other new conversion card that's available to people going from Barclays, that you don't get an annual fee. Now, If I remember right, the one that they would have moved you to from the free Barclays that has the fee is a $50 fee. And again, if you fly American a couple of times a year or more, that card may be not the right one to have if you did choose to have a fee. I would go up or down. I would go to the roughly $100 card that has more benefits,
9:47 Speaker 02 or I'd go to the free card, maintain the credit you have available. You've got this great credit score. You don't want to reduce your available credit. And what I don't know from what you said is how many other financial institution credit cards you have. If Barclays and Citi was all you had with one each, I would want you to get another card. It can be no annual fee. We've got a great list of cash back cards from another issuer. So you have lines of credit with more than one financial institution other than just Citi.
10:21 Speaker 03 And that list is at Clark.com. Margaret in Georgia says, I recently had a job change and I have questions about my HSA. Last year, thanks to your advice, I started thinking about my HSA for its triple tax benefit and left my contributions in it. Currently, I can still contribute to make the max contribution for 2025, but my accountant advised me I will not get the payroll benefit. I'm likely to get another high deductible qualifying insurance, Cobra or the marketplace, to continue HSA contributions, again, without the payroll benefits. Is it still the best move to max my HSA contribution even without this benefit? Currently, it's with a, they name the bank, but can I move that money and make new contributions to Fidelity?
11:06 Speaker 02 Yeah, you, you want to do this without delay, the...
11:09 Speaker 03 And that question, she, her question did come in before tax day, so I'm not sure if that was her deadline for making those HSA contributions for last year. So sorry about that.
11:19 Speaker 02 But, but with what you said, that you want to continue an HSA, you're, you're in a likely a marketplace, HSA eligible plan now.
11:30 Speaker 02 The employer provided plan you're in is one of the ones that has a lot of fees that are passed on to you. They don't have good, low-cost investment options. Move all that money that you have from the legacy employer HSA, move it all to Fidelity. Fidelity will help you with the procedure to move your HSA there. And contributing to the HSA long-term, if you can afford to, is so to your advantage, even though you're not going to get the triple tax benefit, you're still going to get a wonderful double tax benefit in the HSA. And remember to keep your medical receipts all through the years, because if later in
12:15 Speaker 02 life you want to go back and do look back and do a tax-free withdrawal from the HSA, doesn't have to be withdrawn in the same year as the expense. You just have to have proof of the unreimbursed expenses you've had through the years.
12:30 Speaker 03 Ron in California says, "I'm writing regarding the notification that Chase intends to reduce the limit on my Visa card to align with my current usage. While my monthly charges, primarily utilities, average around $200, I'm concerned that a significant reduction in my total available credit will negatively impact my debt-to-credit utilization ratio, and consequently, my long-term FICO score of 800+. Given my many years of excellent credit history with Chase, I would like to request that my current limit remain unchanged. Are there any alternatives to increasing my monthly spend that would allow me to maintain my current credit line?"
13:09 Speaker 02 Right. So, we addressed this six weeks, eight weeks ago. So, a lot of the big card issuers, you know, they're very small, they're a very small number of banks that dominate credit card issuance in the United States. They have overwhelming market share. Citi, Chase, Capital One, to name the three. I think they are the three dominant players now in credit cards. But that doesn't mean there's nobody else. But the problem is, delinquencies on credit cards and outstanding Charge volume is way up and a lot of the issuers are really freaking out.
13:49 Speaker 02 They're worried people are going to take the very large amount of available credit that they have. They may lose their job. They start paying their bills by just charging up on the credit card. And then the credit card company is exposed. So it's not just Chase. We keep hearing from people who do light use of a credit card that they're getting these notices that their credit limit is going to be reduced. If you want to remain with a card with Chase, you have to play the game their way. And so they, to their credit, different based on what you've said from other issuers. They're telling you that if you don't increase the usage of it, they're going to cut your limit way down.
14:34 Speaker 02 If you can, and you want to stay with Chase, you start charging more on that card and just pay it off and you'll preserve your limit. Otherwise, while you still have this card, go ahead and get a card from someone else. If you're a member of a credit union, I'd like for you to go grab a credit union card or another issuer other than one of the big three. And then you can close this account. The closure of the account, it'll be okay because look where your score is. As long as you've replaced it, what I call hopscotching, you've gone ahead and gotten a new card and then you close this one, you will preserve your credit integrity and your credit scoring.
15:19 Speaker 02 And this is one that we're going to hear more and more of as inflation looks like it's the genie's out. We're going to have more inflation again for a number of reasons. And the economy is slowing at the same time. And there's a hint of possibility that the economists at these banks are really worried about that I've mentioned a few times over the last year, which is that we're headed towards stagflation. And stagflation is an ugly economic condition with both a sluggish economy and inflation growing.
16:02 Speaker 02 And I don't mean to depress you, but that is. Actually, a decent possibility now that is magnified by deficit spending going on in the country and what we're spending right now on the military is leading to a greater chance of stagflation. Coming up ahead, to stick with this theme, job market's tough right now and there are people out there making it tougher for you. I'm going to tell you what I want you to watch out for and how to deal with it.
16:41 Speaker 00 At Edward Jones, we believe rich is more than caring about the latest and greatest. It's also taking care of what gives your life meaning. That's why your dedicated financial advisor meets you where you are with personalized financial strategies that help protect what matters so you can preserve your progress while creating a path forward. The key to being rich is knowing what counts. Let's find your rich together. Edward Jones. Member SIPC.
17:11 Speaker 01 UKG is the workforce operating platform with unified HR, payroll, and workforce management. Built to solve the unique challenges of frontline work. Powered by People First AI and decades of labor data, UKG turns workforce intelligence into real-time decisions around staffing, pay, compliance, and productivity, enabling every worker to confidently take action as work happens. Because when work works, everything works. Learn more at ukg.com/work. UKG, HR, Pay, and Workforce Management. Welcome to the 50th Hunger Games.
17:44 Speaker 04 Witness the beginning of the revolution.
17:46 Speaker 05 Hey Mitch, you've been trying to take down these games from the start.
17:49 Speaker 04 Filmed for IMAX.
17:51 Speaker 05 Make them remember you.
17:52 Speaker 04 The Hunger Games: Sunrise on the Reaping, November 20th, rated PG-13.
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18:53 Speaker 02 So you lose your job or you're at a job you don't love. And you're looking for a new one on various multi-employer websites. Maybe you see something on LinkedIn, something like that. You see a job posted as available. So there's a gray area and an ugly area that is unfortunately way too common right now. You'll see a job that is a fake listing. And it actually does turn out to be from a legitimate employer. Why would an employer post a job that doesn't exist? What a great question.
19:35 Speaker 02 There are any of a number of potential explanations. And there's a lot of upset about employers doing this. And then there are the absolutely fake employment listings that are being done by con artists that are trying to either steal your money, or steal your identity, or some combination of it, or to get you voluntarily to pay money because it's part of some kind of supposed background check, or employment application fee, or whatever fish story they tell you.
20:15 Speaker 02 Now, there's a simple thing that you should be doing with any employer listing that's listed anywhere, social media, I don't care where it is. I want you to not trust and go verify that that job really exists. How do you do that? Simple. You go to an employer's own website. And most employers on there will show what jobs they're hiring for at their own website.
20:49 Speaker 02 And if that job is posted, who knows where and not on that employer's website, odds are there actually is no job and it could be the beginning of a con, or it could be, I don't know what employers, you know, what reason they want people's information on file, who knows, but you look there. Second, if you are active on LinkedIn and you have people on there who you know of, who work for a particular employer that's got a job listing, contact them and say, hey, what do you know about this job?
21:30 Speaker 02 That's going to be a bit of truth serum. It also may give you a leg up for that job. But when you are looking at a potential job listing and you've met with no one, if you've done anything, maybe you've done some kind of texting with someone who's supposedly with the employer, and then they want to, well, let's proceed with the application, and they're trying to get your social security number, all kinds of personal information, and you have not actually been able to fully verify you're actually dealing with a real person at that employer who's actually a real decision maker on hiring,
22:14 Speaker 02 and you've been unable to verify that job is real, you don't fill out that online application because you don't know who you're really giving that information to that could be used against you. I can't believe I have to say stuff like this, but we live in an era that you'll hear in so many different things, how I have to also add or straight on address the element that's trying to separate you from your money or clone your identity. And so you've got to be on your guard because the fake job listings, that's just a pretext to be able to get your money.
22:58 Speaker 02 Or do other harm to you? I hate it when somebody already is like, I'm just trying to get a job here.
23:06 Speaker 03 Okay, we're gonna go to questions now. William in Georgia says, how do you feel about this website? I don't want to say it on the show. Is this too risky since it's not FDIC insured?
23:20 Speaker 02 Oh, it's so past not FDIC insured. And I guess.
23:26 Speaker 03 Do you want me to name it?
23:26 Speaker 02 No, I'm thinking through because I don't want people to think this is the only organization doing the MO that I'm talking, that I'm going to talk about. So there are a number of supposed opportunities right now where you are promised you can earn double digits on your money. And you're lending into situations, your money is being used for generally, the generic term is promissory notes. Somebody owes money, they can't pay it. This particular outfit is geared towards people who've defaulted on student loans is their main thing. So these are people who are already in default.
24:07 Speaker 02 But your promise that if you become part of lending that defaulted person money, you're going to lend it to them at a really high rate, you're going to get this huge amount of interest and talk about risk? Oh, my goodness. And this is just one of probably hundreds of such pitches going on for different organizations where you can earn far higher than the three, three point something percent you can earn in savings or CDs right now. You can earn three, four, five times that. But are you ever going to see that money?
24:48 Speaker 02 Because you're doing ultra-high-risk lending with no guarantee you're ever going to see the money you lent back.
24:58 Speaker 03 Perry in California says, I have maybe 18 credit cards, most accumulated by getting card signup bonuses. I use maybe three cards regularly and pay all charges off every month. I imagine many of these cards will be closed due to not being used. Is it better for me to close them instead? FYI, I have a credit score of 830 and would not close the oldest card or the card with the largest limit. Waiting for your expert advice.
25:24 Speaker 02 Just, just leave them be. Eventually, some of the issuers will say, yeah, we're closing this one.
25:32 Speaker 03 What if they have annual fees? Does that make a difference? They didn't say.
25:35 Speaker 02 Well, yeah, I mean, if you got annual fees and you've got a score that's near a perfect score,
25:43 Speaker 02 and you want to close some that have annual fees that you're not using, fine if you're getting no benefit from them.
25:51 Speaker 02 Do you know that it's now common with people playing the game, Perry, is that they have as many as 30 cards now?
25:59 Speaker 03 Wow, I could never keep track.
26:02 Speaker 02 Yeah, but the, the companies are counting on you not doing the gaming because now a lot of the issuers have restrictions, like Chase was the first one as the biggest issuer, biggest financial institution. You know, Chase is now bigger than the next three banks combined.
26:21 Speaker 03 Wow.
26:22 Speaker 02 Anyway, so they have specific rules, how many times you can apply for cards with Chase in a so many month period to try to deal with people that are taking advantage of all these rewards. And more and more issuers are mimicking Chase with doing so as well. But it has worked for you, your score's phenomenal, and the only outside risk you face is that you have a card you're not using. Somehow a criminal gets a hold of the number of, and they start charging. But as you know, as long as you notice that those charges are there and you dispute them within 60 days, you're not responsible for those.
27:05 Speaker 02 So I don't see any reason for you to do anything different, Perry, because you're benefiting from all the rewards. The banks are, they think they're clever as could be, offering all these things, hooking people, but you've been able to make it work completely to your advantage. And you've got a score that almost nobody has for your credit score.
27:29 Speaker 03 Ben in Wisconsin says, Clark, I have a question about funding flight school. My son is a junior in high school. He should have his private license by the end of this year. We're trying to decide if he should attend a flight school that offers degrees or private flight school separate from pursuing a degree elsewhere. The big issue is funding. Attending a four-year university with flight school would require us to get a loan for $100,000 to $150,000. Is it worth the risk since there is a high earning potential? Or is it better to pay as he goes, but possibly limit job opportunities? If you're willing to share, I'd be interested in the path your son is taking. Thanks for the ongoing great advice.
28:10 Speaker 02 Well, Ben, here's my son's path. It's not a straight line. Grant started flying when he was 13, got his private pilot's license virtually the day he was eligible, which was when he turned 17. And he has a lot of hours. He started at a four-year university and their flight school. And then he decided that there's going to come a time, Ben, for your son and mine, where he came to me and said, Dad, they're not going to need me in the cockpit way before I would hit retirement age with the changes in automation.
28:52 Speaker 02 Eventually, planes are going to be fully autonomous, automated. If they need anybody for a while till people get comfortable, there will be one person. And he said, I want to change my degree major in college. He's finishing his sophomore year. He's getting a degree in finance and he's now flying at an outside flight school. Now, outside flight school is expensive.
29:19 Speaker 02 But the biggest problem you're going to have at most universities that offer a degree program, a bachelor's degree in professional flight, is that the students are graduating without a lot of hours. The advantage my son has is also a disadvantage. He's flying a lot of hours, but he's very close by, probably late this summer, he'll be able to start flying for money. And he'll be earning the remaining hours he needs towards being a professional pilot, flying for one of the airlines. He'll be able to do that, getting paid to do so, instead of paying for those hours. It's always a difficult mix.
30:04 Speaker 02 Every young person going to flight school has this dilemma that your son is facing. There is no one right answer. Whether he would be better served going to an outside flight school or going to a university-based. Now, I'm going to throw in some additional information that you're probably already on top of. But knowing the advantage of going to a flight school that qualifies for 1,000-hour certification versus a flight school, that could be a university or a private flight school, that requires 1,500 hours for your son to fly for an airline.
30:47 Speaker 02 And so if your son has a well-thought-out path to get those hours as a flight instructor or doing other jobs where you get the hours on somebody else's cost, instead of his cost, having to get the 500 extra hours once you get a paying job is not that tough to then be able to fly for one of the airlines. You don't need that 1,500 to fly charter. So that's a lot of information for people who are not into this conversation, Ben. But I wanted to tell you that your son, you also could talk to 100 pilots,
31:31 Speaker 02 and you get 100 different pieces of advice. So you just take the compilation of advice you get, and you or your son, or you and your son, figure out what is going to be his best path. To ending up a professional pilot in the cockpit. It's great. He's found a passion that he loves, just like I've seen with my son. And for my son, he now goes to school 12 months a year. Because when he's not at university getting requirements completed for his finance degree, he's flying. And for him, the hours he's flying, it's not school.
32:13 Speaker 02 It's a joy for him every time he gets in a plane. And I hope that we had information today that brought value into your life, brought joy into your life today, that you learned something that you can take and use in your life. Because everything we do here is for you. Your empowerment with knowledge so you can save more, spend less, and avoid getting ripped off. We'll see you on Wednesday.
32:50 Speaker 00 At Edward Jones, we believe rich is more than caring about the latest and greatest. It's also taking care of what gives your life meaning. That's why your dedicated financial advisor meets you where you are with personalized financial strategies that help protect what matters so you can preserve your progress while creating a path forward. The key to being rich is knowing what counts. Let's find your rich together. Edward Jones. Member SIPC.
33:19 Speaker 01 UKG is the workforce operating platform with unified HR, payroll, and workforce management built to solve the unique challenges of frontline work. Powered by People First AI and decades of labor data, UKG turns workforce intelligence into real-time decisions around staffing, pay, compliance, and productivity, enabling every worker to confidently take action as work happens. Because when work works, everything works. Learn more at ukg.com/work. UKG, HR, Pay, and Workforce Management.
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