Pod Insights The Clark Howard Podcast 04.22.26 Couples & Money / Cruise Ship Retirement About this episode Clark takes on the touchy subject of merging finances with a significant other. The transition from financial independence to shared responsibility requires planning and ongoing conversations. Clark warns that silence is the enemy of a healthy relationship. Also today, Clark revisits the popular dream of retiring on a cruise ship. While "living at sea" was once considered a brilliant financial hack, the post-COVID landscape has changed the math entirely. Clark breaks down the current reality. Couples & Finances: Segment 1 Ask Clark: Segment 2 Cruise Ship Residency: Segment 3 Ask Clark: Segment 4 Mentioned on the show: Clark Howard's 5 Money Tips for Couples Backdoor Roth IRA: How High Earners Can Still Contribute Roth vs. Traditional 401(k): What's the Difference? - Clark Howard My Teenage Daughter Just Got $2,000. Should I Open a Bank Account for Her? Living on a Cruise Ship in Retirement: A Brilliant Hack or a Costly Mistake? Elliott Report: Home Unclaimed Money: How To Find and Claim Missing Funds for Free Going™ | Flight Alerts, Mistake Fares & Cheap Tickets Clark.com resources: Episode transcripts Community. Clark.com / Ask Clark Clark.com daily money newsletter Consumer Action Center Free Helpline: 636-492-5275 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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1:05 Speaker 02 It's great to have you here on the Clark Howard Show. Now, our mission is to serve you with advice and information that empowers you so you make better financial decisions in your life. One decision you may make someday in your life is to get married or to merge your finances with another person. How do you do that? What are the right strategies for it? Because you didn't hear me say "strategy." There is no one automatic right answer here. But truth is, most people don't pay attention enough to this. And it can cause hurt feelings or break down trust in a relationship, a marriage, or a relationship.
1:49 Speaker 02 And later, a trend that was really in prior to COVID is reemerging. And that's people in retirement deciding to live on a cruise ship year-round.
2:05 Speaker 02 And there are things you gotta know about it. And a lot of the hype in videos you might see makes it seem like this is a no brainer. You're gonna live so cheap, you're not gonna believe it, living on a cruise ship. I want to tell you how it actually plays. So finances. First, it starts with having ongoing conversations with the one you love, your spouse or significant other. All too often, because people tend to get married at a later age than they used to. It could be a second marriage.
2:50 Speaker 02 They could be living with somebody at some point, not quite sure where it's going. Or they could be living with someone or getting married to someone after having lived a separate life for a good while on their own. And they're used to controlling their wallet, paying their expenses, controlling all their accounts. So if you go in the Wayback Machine, the way it used to be done turned out to be dangerous financially is that people would tend to defer, most often in a couple,
3:35 Speaker 02 to the male of the couple. And the spouse would not have any say so over what was going on with the money. And as happened with my mom when my dad died, my mom had nothing in her name and had a really difficult time later in life establishing credit. I mean, her credit was his credit. And it was a real eye opener for the four of us as kids, the difficulty our mom had navigating financially. Today, that is not really common, what happened with my mom.
4:18 Speaker 02 But what is common is people have gone to the other extreme. A lot of secrecy around money and couples and a failure to discuss. At the very least, on an ongoing basis, I want you as a couple, married or living some of their status together. I want you to have ongoing conversations about what your goals are in life. Cause a lot of times in silence, you assume that your spouse or significant other's goals in life are similar to yours.
5:00 Speaker 02 Their feelings about debt, their feelings about putting money aside for retirement, their dreams way down the road. And in silence, you think they think like you do. And then only later you find out about, oops, they got all this credit card debt. Or they've not been saving for retirement or what they want to do later in life. Completely different than what you want to do. And any relationship involves ongoing understanding, communication and compromise. So you haven't heard me talk about any of the practicalities about accounts yet, have you?
5:43 Speaker 02 Because it starts with building a bridge of communication. When do most people communicate about money? When they're mad at their partner or spouse. And they, something they find out goes off like dynamite. And they're just angry as, you know, a wasp nest. The point is not a conversation and never initiate a conversation about money when you're mad. Cause what does somebody do when you're attacking them? They get their back against the wall emotionally.
6:22 Speaker 02 Maybe if you're coming at them, they got their back against the wall, literally. Nothing is accomplished then, other than hurt feelings. So that's why it's an ongoing conversation when you're just talking. And at the most basic, if there's really great trust in a relationship, I want you to be honest with each other about what you got, what money you've saved, what debts you have, and what your plan is for retirement. And then getting down to the specifics. If you get married later in life, and you've been used to paying your own money, having your own money, all that,
7:04 Speaker 02 you want to maintain that in a relationship, because that's what you're probably both used to. But you also need to have a joint account. And that joint account, the idea of it, is the joint expenses that you have both agreed, which starts with where you live, the costs of where you live, and other things that, for you as a couple, you would designate as joint expenses, that you work out what each of you are going to fund into that joint account each month. And you do an automatic transfer, so you don't get in an awkward situation
7:47 Speaker 02 where you're flaky and you forget to put money in, and it's time to pay the rent or mortgage or whatever, and the other person's having to say, hey, you know, I gotta make a collection call on you. You didn't fund your part of the rent or mortgage. If that is, that's the minimum you do, is you set up the house account, agree how much you're going to fund each, which may, based on earnings disparities, may not be 50/50. It's whatever the two of you decide, which goes back to the very beginning of this, the whole idea of communication. Over and over again, over the last, gosh, almost 40 years, when I've talked with couples,
8:31 Speaker 02 what's clear is the failure to communicate with money can tear at the fabric of the love. That exists between two people.
8:43 Speaker 03 All right, we'll go to questions now. Alan in Florida says, Clark, back in the day, there were concerns about using TikTok. I heard that there was some shuffling with the ownership of it, and I now wonder if the security issues have been resolved. Thanks for all you do.
8:58 Speaker 02 Gosh, this is so timely. I was just reading an article where technology people were arguing if the Chinese control of TikTok really was over. The actions of Americans on TikTok in the United States are now on American servers with an American partner with the parent company of TikTok from China, so that the Chinese no longer have access to that on Chinese servers. The thing that was the debate in the, in the debate article
9:38 Speaker 02 I was reading was that who's writing the code? And it's still the Chinese are writing the code. And so the unknown is, are there any unwelcome things hidden in that code that could be harmful to our country or to the individuals on TikTok? It seems to have met the administration's requirements to create a layer of safety with TikTok. But that's all I can tell you is that's where we are. It's kind of a fuzzy resolution.
10:16 Speaker 03 Okay, this is from I Love Roth 2 in North Carolina. I've enjoyed your podcast and learned a great amount from it. Thank you. My question is about tax-deferred 401K/Roth 401K, which would be beneficial in the long run if I'm maxing out the IRSLO contributions each year and investing the tax savings from deferred taxes in a brokerage. So which would be best? I already do backdoor Roths for my spouse and for me. You've generally favored the Roth 401K in your podcasts, but would your advice be any different in this case?
10:53 Speaker 02 So, not necessarily unless you are an ultra-high-income earner. Now, you're earning enough as a couple that you can't do a traditional Roth IRA in addition to a traditional Roth 401K.
11:09 Speaker 02 Because of the income collar, which I don't get on contributing to Roth IRAs, where we punish people for success in owning their own business or in working for someone that you get above a certain income level, which you can find very easily for individuals and couples. And so you're doing the backdoor Roth, which for people who are not aware, there's this obscure creature called a nondeductible IRA that has no income limits on it. And people can do a nondeductible IRA, and if you jump through the right hoops, you can then virtually immediately convert it into Roth IRA money getting around,
11:51 Speaker 02 which is why it's called a backdoor on the income limits. To your question, the advantage of you doing a Roth 401k instead of traditional, and again, I don't know if you are earning a really good amount of money or a huge amount of money. What would I call huge money as a couple? If you're earning half a million a year or more, huge money, then you may well benefit from doing a mix of a traditional 401k and a Roth 401k. If your earnings are meaningfully below half a million, you would benefit by going fully into the Roth 401k,
12:36 Speaker 02 which means you have to contribute more. You won't have the money to put into the regular investment brokerage account. But the advantage is enormous down the road because that money will have grown tax-free and you'll spend it tax-free. And I would be remiss if I didn't throw in, as we've had several Clark stinks, that in retirement, if you have too much money in traditionals, you get hit with a massive penalty every month, a financial penalty on receiving Medicare in retirement. So there are so many advantages of the Roth versus traditional
13:18 Speaker 02 that although people don't do it overwhelmingly, I'd say probably 95% of wage earners. Would be better off going all in on Roth 401k instead of traditional 401k.
13:33 Speaker 03 Sandy in Michigan says, my 12 year old asked me about getting a Cash App teen account to learn more about finances. I think her favorite part is that she gets to design her own debit card. Priorities, right? Ha ha. What do you think about this program? I searched through your podcast and found one from 2023 discussing green light where you stated you believed fidelity was one of the best in this area. Is this still the case? Are credit unions still a better option?
14:02 Speaker 02 So for kids, what's what changed that you heard me talk about three years ago is fidelity developed the teen account. And the teen account is awesome because its emphasis is allowing access to funds like your 12 year old wants. But it's all about teaching, investing and getting kids investing and giving them more than normal control of what is a custodial account for the kids to be able to invest, creating a mindset early about the purpose of building wealth for the future, whatever reason they're building that wealth.
14:47 Speaker 02 And as soon as a teen has a job, building the habit at their first jobs at 14, 15, or 16, most often those are the years that a kid may start working, that they're putting money into a Roth IRA, getting 50 years approximately of growth on that money, creating, time creates so much wealth and building habits creates so much wealth. The Cash App program is basically a spending program and it's okay, but it's really about spending.
15:26 Speaker 02 They do have a little bit there about how you can have a savings account as a teen, but it's really about having a way to spend. And that's always been my problem with any bank program geared towards teens is it's all about making them spenders and borrowers, not investors, my bias. So then the last question you asked about credit unions.
15:55 Speaker 02 So if it's just about having an efficient way to spend, the credit union programs are generally going to be better than others because they're fee-free almost always. And that is if it's about how to put money aside for spending efficiently using a piece of trash fake Visa or fake MasterCard, also known as a debit card. Coming up ahead, what if, let's move to the other side of the age spectrum, you've hit retirement and retirement's proving more expensive than you thought. And we've talked
16:34 Speaker 02 several times recently, answering questions and topics about retiring or living in foreign countries because that can be so much cheaper. But now cruises, living on a cruise ship full-time year-round is now back in the conversation. Is it a deal? I'll give you my perspective.
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19:11 Speaker 02 Back in the teens, I got questions repeatedly from people because there was so much buzz about to save money. People were living on cruise ships year round. It was a deal back, you know, after the great recession ended through pretty much up to pre-COVID. And for those of you who are longtime listeners or viewers, you will likely remember that our son from a very young age, single digit, was absolutely, completely and totally obsessed with cruise ships from when he was six years old.
19:52 Speaker 02 We thought he was going to go to college to a marine university near London. He was all in on that when he was an early teen. Then he discovered airplanes. Now he's well on his way finishing to become a commercial airline pilot. But we met over and over again, people on these cruises who were living on the ships, literally all year long. And there were people that were living for a fraction of the cost of living on land for their housing, all their meals, and just booking one cruise after another after another.
20:34 Speaker 02 There was one lady I met who was literally living on the same ship in the same cabin. And it was her second year she was completing, living on that ship. And everybody in the crew knew her and adored her. And at that time, when I talked to her, it was costing her $40,000 a year to live on the ship and have all her meals, all the entertainment, all the stuff you can do for free on a ship. And it was a thing 10, 15 years ago to live on a ship. So how about now? Totally different math.
21:17 Speaker 02 The cruise lines survived their near death experience during COVID. As many of them had to lay on piles of debt that were just monstrously large. They pretty much were expected to go extinct. A lot of smaller cruise lines did, but most not only survived, they're in the best golden era that the cruise ship industry's ever been in. And the cruise lines are quoting much, much, much higher prices. So the math is in the same. This isn't a way anymore for you to be able to live on a ship year round as often as
21:58 Speaker 02 a couple and have it be less expensive than, forget going somewhere affordable overseas, living in the US on land. Because today.
22:12 Speaker 02 The bargain cruises, I mean, think about that example, the woman living for 40 grand a year. Today, you go inside cabin, no window, 120 square feet to that cabin. That's your accommodation, 120 square feet. You're looking more like 90 to 120,000 on a budget cruise line. If you're doing this thinking there's going to be a luxury event, and you go on a higher end cruise line, outside cabin, let's say with a small balcony, this is going to sound really negative to those of you who are thinking of doing this, you're
22:53 Speaker 02 looking more at a quarter million or more to do so. So if the whole idea is to reduce your expenses, that was a was, not an is. This is, this is something that has changed. It doesn't mean that a wealthy retiree who is happiest at sea, who has decent money, decent income, you've saved a lot, go live at sea for a while. And if you go back to last decade, you may remember me talking about my oldest brother, who he and his wife
23:34 Speaker 02 decided they were going to live on cruise ships. And that was where they were going to live. And they sold their, their home, sold almost all their possessions, reduced their life down to two storage units. And how long did their, we're going to live on cruise ships as our full-time living residence? How long did that last? Do you remember?
23:56 Speaker 03 I don't remember. Longer than it would have lasted for me. That's for sure.
24:02 Speaker 02 Five weeks. Five weeks. And then after those five weeks, do you know, here we are a decade later, they have never, as I recall, set foot on a cruise ship since.
24:17 Speaker 03 I just saw that documentary, Poop Cruise.
24:20 Speaker 02 Oh, Christie, you're going to take us from the fantasy for people who love cruises living on one, you're going to talk about that Carnival cruise? What year was that?
24:30 Speaker 03 I can't remember the exact year, but my goodness, if you want to just never want to go on a cruise again. Watch poop cruise. It was so disturbing what happened to these poor people, like just awful.
24:48 Speaker 02 Okay, so there were news helicopters flying over the Gulf.
24:52 Speaker 03 It's supposed to be a three day, I think, two or three day cruise.
24:56 Speaker 02 It was, it was worse than Gellgan's Island. People were having to, there was no, the cruise ship was basically non, almost non-functional at that point.
25:07 Speaker 03 All the, no electricity. Yeah.
25:09 Speaker 02 People were having to, it's called the poop cruise because people were having to poop in, in buckets. And then the poor cabin attendants would have to come.
25:19 Speaker 03 Well, they would give, they gave them a bunch of baggies to use for that. But then some people were disgusted because the toilets didn't work. They were supposed to pee in the showers. And then it was just, it was an awful, like, I forget how many days they ended up being marooned out at sea. And then they finally were getting towed and, you know, the ship listed and everything went everywhere. And it's just, you can't even imagine.
25:44 Speaker 02 I was still doing a TV show then for one of the cable networks and they were having me in news segments over and over again. And I would run out of things to say. I mean, how many times can you say, yeah, they're out at sea. They're having to poop. And, and you said bags. I, I was, what we were reporting at the time was they were pooping in buckets. And I mean, man, that, that was not a good advertisement for the cruise industry.
26:17 Speaker 03 Okay. Well, go to some, speaking of the cruise industry.
26:20 Speaker 02 Really ruined people's day.
26:22 Speaker 03 Well, Emmanuel in Florida has a question related to the cruise industry. I received a $1,000 Norwegian gift card from my job in August of 2019.
26:33 Speaker 02 Just before COVID.
26:35 Speaker 03 Yep. Due to COVID and health concerns, I was unable to use it at the time. The card states funds do not expire and are valid through August of 2026. When I recently tried to use it for a cruise in August, Norwegian could not locate the card as they know. No longer issue gift cards. An agent eventually found it and informed me that after 12 months of inactivity, a $3 monthly fee was applied. Even with those fees, there should still be a significant balance remaining. I was then told the funds were turned over to the state due to dormancy. However, I have searched for unclaimed property and cannot find it. Can you please advise on how I can recover these funds?
27:13 Speaker 02 So, quick math, there should be, even if there was a $3 a month inactivity fee, there should still be somewhere around 800 bucks on it. And the cruise lines are kind of a law unto themselves, truthfully. And so enforcing it is really important. Norwegian, gosh, I don't want to kick the cruise industry while it's down. Norwegian's parent company has had a terrible time lately. They're in the midst of a corporate fight over control of the board. The CEO was just fired. The company has been, has had a really, really bad operational time
27:57 Speaker 02 and management time over the last several years. So, things are kind of a mess there. And so, it's been hard for people who have a problem with NCL. It's not easy with the cruise industry at all, but with NCL, things have been really, really difficult. So, you were stuck trying to reach customer no service. If you've not done so yet, I want you to go to Elliott.org and see if they, if you can get some help from executive contacts that Elliott has for NCL, for Norwegian Cruise Line. And then I want to hear back from you if you're still beating your head against the wall.
28:42 Speaker 02 And I want to see if there's some other ideas I can come up with.
28:46 Speaker 03 I'm also wondering about unclaimed funds looking there.
28:49 Speaker 02 Yeah, so if you've looked, because you're assuming with their headquarters. Where the money would have sheeted to, is that how you say that word?
28:58 Speaker 03 I think so.
28:59 Speaker 02 If you go to missingmoney.com, which is a clearance clearinghouse site, look for yourself, you may find the Norwegian money somewhere. You may find other money of yours somewhere. But if the Norwegian money is not showing up somewhere, maybe they were supposed to turn it over to the state, never did. So that's why reaching out to the executive contacts that Elliot has would be a next strategy that I would employ.
29:29 Speaker 03 Also, I wonder, since it was like a gift from the company, maybe it was turned over in the company's name that bought the gift cards for the employees, too.
29:36 Speaker 02 That's a great question. Did the gift card have your name on it? Or in fact, is it in the name and was returned to the company that you hopefully still work for instead of worked for? Yeah, Krista.
29:52 Speaker 03 Thank you. Anonymous in Tennessee says, Clark, you've convinced us to go to Australia on vacation and possibly move there. We're thinking a three-week trip. When's the best time to visit and when to book flights?
30:04 Speaker 02 Okay, so the best time to visit is a funny question because you got the cost of getting there, the cost of staying there versus when the best months are to be there. So my bias, and you live not in a cold climate, living in Tennessee, but the weather in Australia in their summer, which is our winter, is so great. That also happens to be when things tend to be more expensive. So if you were trying to find when you could get the best weather
30:45 Speaker 02 and not the worst prices, I have a big bias for February because December, January are so expensive.
30:56 Speaker 02 To fly to Australia. So if you go in February, you're still in the midst of winter for us, summer for them, and things are less crowded. They're cheaper. I've been to Australia so many times, and for me, it'll never be enough. And if you really want to save money, some of the times our summer, their winter is when you have real opportunity. I mean, you go, May-June could be really good to be in Australia. August, which is the heart of their winter, would be really good in terms of prices.
31:36 Speaker 02 November would be really good because it's already, you know, it's, it's spring there, and the prices are still lower.
31:46 Speaker 03 Wouldn't you say subscribe to Going? Because if you're flexible on when you go and everything, that's probably a great resource for you.
31:54 Speaker 02 Yeah, we don't talk about, why don't we talk about Scott anymore? Because I hate the name change. Anyway.
32:01 Speaker 03 It was Scott's Cheap Flights, but for years now, Clark, it's been Going.
32:05 Speaker 02 Yeah, what is it about me that I get something stuck and I just like, why did they do that? Anyway, but Going, yes, will send you alerts. There's a free version, but if you want to get really good alerts, you sign up for the paid version of Going, and they'll alert you when there is a sale to Australia. Now, the fares out of Tennessee aren't going to be great. If you're looking for good deals to Australia, you're going to find it's a lot cheaper to buy one ticket normally to the West Coast, and then you buy your fare from the West Coast to wherever, whichever airport in Australia you get the best deal of late.
32:49 Speaker 02 Fares to Brisbane have been significantly lower than fares to Sydney, but that changes all the time.
32:55 Speaker 03 When you subscribe to Going, you can choose several cities that you want to receive fares out of.
33:00 Speaker 02 Alerts from, yeah.
33:02 Speaker 03 Mark in Oregon says, Clark, my wife and I travel with our cat. I noticed more hotels advertise as pet friendly. Unfortunately, the hotels are now charging between 25 and 50 dollars per night extra for the cat.
33:13 Speaker 02 At least.
33:15 Speaker 03 I can understand the concern for damage. However, a refundable pet deposit seems more fair. This just seems to be greedy to us. What are your thoughts?
33:23 Speaker 02 It's just part of the whole trend in the travel industry of having junk fees on top of everything else, where they charge you an amenities fee, a resort fee, a city fee, an urban fee, or whatever junk fee they invented in their minds to charge you. And the pet fees have become just as common as the good thing, that so many properties now allow pets. I mean, it used to be a hard thing. There used to be, pet lovers would set up rudimentary websites just to tell you where you could find the occasional place
34:05 Speaker 02 that would allow you to bring your dog or cat into the hotel. And now it's so easy to find properties that do, but you gotta pay the junk fee. And last time we stayed in rural Pennsylvania, I spent so much time trying to figure out, I finally had to do, this is so funny. I had to take a sheet of paper and do a grid about what the human rate was for the night, and then what the pet charge was for the night, to figure out what our overall best deal was.
34:44 Speaker 02 And it's a lot more work than it used to be when you're figuring out the price. But the good part, the places are much more welcoming to the pets. And I want to thank you so much for joining us on today's podcast. Coming up Friday, we're going to have our latest edition of Clark Stinks, where you get to hear how I didn't do a good job serving you. And I learned so much from Clark Stinks, and we all learn from each other here. And that's what this is about. Everything we do, whether you need one-on-one advice and you talk with our free service,
35:27 Speaker 02 we have the Team Clark Consumer Action Center, which you can see how to reach at clark.com/dac. Or you subscribe to our newsletters, or you go to our website, or you watch us on YouTube, or you listen to this podcast, or you see me where you live on TV, or hear me on radio, whatever it is, whether it's social media where you get content from us. Our goal is to reach you however you want to be reached, whenever you want to be reached, with information that empowers you, that you can act on, so that you are more powerful in your life, in your wallet.
36:12 Speaker 02 So you can save more, so you can spend less day to day, and you can absolutely avoid getting ripped off. And we'll see you on Friday.
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