Pod Insights The Clark Howard Podcast 03.31.25 Who Administers Your Retirement Account? / What Happened To Southwest Airlines? About this episode When it comes to retirement accounts, where they’re held is all important and can make a huge difference later in life. Clark explains why knowing your fees is a financial must - and what to look for. Also today, Clark faces the changes at his favorite airline. It’s time to talk about Southwest. Retirement Account Fees: Segment 1 Ask Clark: Segment 2 Heartbreaker Southwest: Segment 3 Ask Clark: Segment 4 Mentioned on the show: What Fee Level Does Clark Consider Acceptable For a Company 401(k)? 401k Fees: How Much is Too Much? Why You Need To Know Your Company 401(k) Fees Roth vs. Traditional 401(k): What's the Difference? What Is an Annuity, and Why Does Clark Think They Stink? The Only Two Exceptions to Clark Howard's Annuity Rule Budgeting - Clark.com Big Changes Are Coming To Southwest Airlines Customers Should You Cancel Your Southwest Airlines Credit Card? Clark Howard's 4 Travel Rules You Should Follow Right Now How To Save on Travel With Google Flights PAXCESS™ | PAXLOVID™ Clark.com resources Episode transcripts Community. Clark.com / Ask Clark Clark.com daily money newsletter Consumer Action Center Free Helpline: 636-492-5275 Learn more about your ad choices: megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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1:16 Speaker 02 I'm so glad you've joined us here on The Clark Howard Show. You know, our mission is to serve you with advice and information that empowers you so you make better financial decisions in your life. And when it comes to retirement accounts, where they're held is so important. It makes a huge difference in how much money you have later in life. And I'm going to talk about that. And then, well, Southwest Airlines and I are on the rocks. My longtime girlfriend really dissed me hard.
1:54 Speaker 02 I want to talk about how I'm handling my now rocky relationship with my sweetheart, Southwest.
2:04 Speaker 02 But that's later because right now we're going to talk 401ks because we hit a milestone recently that half of all people who work for private companies now have access to a 401k. I mean, I think about how this has changed in recent times where smaller employers didn't offer 401ks because they were cost prohibitive for smaller employers and now because of competition in the marketplace, it's become possible for very small businesses to offer reasonably affordable 401ks. And now we've hit this more than half point. Still means
2:44 Speaker 02 that half of people almost in the United States don't have access to an employer provided retirement plan left to their own devices. But I got to talk about this 401k thing because 401k plans are not all created equal. I mean, there are companies that just aren't aware and will have their 401k managed by a bank or they'll have it managed by an insurance company. Let me tell you, that's not going to work out because over time, the cost that you have to pay embedded in the investments or administrative fees in a 401k have such
3:28 Speaker 02 a giant impact on the hard earned money you divert into that plan, how much you're going to have down the road. Because you'll see this split that people that are in one of my low cost plans, those of you watching the YouTube show, seeing me use my hands as like a chart, that it diverges at first, the difference in how much money you have in a low cost plan versus a crummy insurance company plan or bank plan for a 401k that you don't really notice, it's not perceptible, how much less money you're going to end up with. But then you start getting some years on the plan and you may have to work many
4:10 Speaker 02 extra years versus someone else because of the huge costs they're going to have in a 401k that's administered by an insurance company or a bank. I mean, you want your 401k. Why is the market share moved to these really low-cost providers like Fidelity and Vanguard and a small number of others? Because they run ultra-efficient, low-cost 401k plans for both the investments and the administrative costs. And then, over time, it has huge impact on how much money you have later in life. So if you're in a plan that has high costs, what's high costs?
4:53 Speaker 02 Anything above half a percent all-in would be a high-cost plan. Anything above 1% would be an ultra-high-cost plan. Some of these insurance company plans that small employers have could have costs of 2%, 3%, or 4% on your 401k, greatly reducing what you're going to have in retirement. So if you're with a provider that's providing a low-cost plan, they have to disclose to you what the fees are. Actually, take the time to look at that. If the plan's a low-cost plan, you want to throw money in it. If it's a high-cost plan, you want to put in enough to pick up whatever employer match you're getting.
5:35 Speaker 02 And then, other than that, you want to be in your own Roth IRA. And while we're at it, overwhelmingly, we now have a choice at employers of a traditional 401k and a Roth 401k. You want the Roth unless you're earning giant money. What's giant money? For a single individual, a quarter million or more a year. For a married couple, 500,000 or more a year. That's the point at which going into a traditional can make a lot more sense. Otherwise, you want to be in the Roth 401k. You're putting in after-tax dollars that will never be taxed again.
6:18 Speaker 02 And it's great that more employers are offering one. But if I were your emperor, I would completely redesign how we do retirement in the United States, where people had a portable plan that was theirs forever. It was like a Roth IRA. But when you're working at a place, the employer can provide a match to it. That would be the smart way to do it. Instead of having a plan while I was at this employer, and now I'm at that employer, and then I'm at the other. And you could choose a low-cost plan instead of being in the crummy, high-cost plan your employer picked. Now, I don't think your employer is trying to rip you off because,
7:03 Speaker 02 remember, they got self-interest here. They just don't know any better. And they went into this high-cost plan. Now, you may wonder why some very large companies might choose a crummy bank for a 401K. Not that banks are crummy, but that for 401K plans are a crummy choice. Why would a large employer pick a bank when they knew it would be much better to have that large employer plan at a low-cost provider? Because they're trying to do other stuff with that bank. Maybe mergers and acquisitions, or they're trying to borrow money from the bank for operating costs at the business. So they make a bad choice for you by doing a high-cost 401K
7:47 Speaker 02 because they need to make those bankers happy.
7:50 Speaker 03 All right, we'll go to questions. Tom in California sent this one in. On your recent Clark stinks, there was an annuities rep who said, "My favorite product, if utilized properly, can turn $500,000 into roughly $100,000 every year for life, guaranteed if you put the money in and let it sit for 10 years. You can get almost 20% of whatever you put in back each year. As an example, if I put in $1 million and let it sit for 10 years, I can get back $100,000 per year for the rest of my life. That just seems too good to be true. Can you explain what type of product the caller was referencing and expand on it?
8:26 Speaker 02 Yeah, it's a very... Forms of deferred annuities, but the numbers that were quoted are just extrapolations. So, an insurance agent in most states is allowed to do what's known as a policy illustration. And the illustration that they're allowed to do, depending on what the state insurance department allows in that state, shows you what could possibly happen, but not what's guaranteed. The only thing you can look at is what the guarantee is, and when you look at the guarantee, you'll see that it's nothing like the policy illustration that makes it seem like, "This is the greatest thing ever."
9:08 Speaker 02 But it's, it'll say, probably in little type, "For illustration purposes only," and is not actually what they're contracting with you to do in that annuity.
9:20 Speaker 03 Tim in Virginia, wrote this, "Clark, should I make $20,000 in upgrades to my rental unit to add a full bath and new kitchen in order to pull another $500 or so in monthly rent? I have a single-family unit in a big city where there's a good market with solid rental history. The changes would make it a two-bath."
9:41 Speaker 02 So you'd get a payback. If you're right, you can cap the cost of doing those upgrades, really at 20,000, you're not going to have a lot of upgrades. That would be a good return on investment. You'd make back the cost in a little more than three years, and then you'd be getting that money, extra money, year after year. And, when you go to sell the rental unit at some point, it will be worth more than it would be otherwise. I think that, if the numbers really are as you think they are, that would be a great move on your part. The one thing that would make it a bad move, is if you have to leave it unoccupied with
10:23 Speaker 02 no rental income, for an extended period of time while the work is going on, then making, getting the return on investment would be a lot harder, take a lot longer.
10:34 Speaker 03 Jonathan in Florida says, "I'm the guy who had 33 bad debts and three car repos in a previous episode. I wanted to let people know that with a good budget, they can achieve good credit. I make $50,900 a year as a first responder."
10:50 Speaker 02 Thank you for your service to people.
10:52 Speaker 03 "My credit score is close to an 800. I put $75 a pay period in a Roth IRA. I pay $230 a month for health insurance, $1124 a month in rent, my truck is paid for, and I pay $65 a month in car insurance. I've been saving for a house, which I now have around $6,500 saved. I've followed several of your guidelines and continue to strive to do better. I may never be a millionaire, but I will survive and I live comfortably on your advice."
11:22 Speaker 02 Jonathan, I can't thank you enough for writing this follow-up, because when people heard your original story, they were probably like, "This is never going to work out." But it shows that determination and one step at a time changes things. And what happens when you go through a process like you did, having to clean things up, you learn to live on less than what you make, which is exactly what you've done, and you've got your finances rock solid, you're putting money aside so many different ways, and this is such a great
12:03 Speaker 02 additional bit of information for people who, right now, we've got a lot of people that are feeling overwhelmed with debts. And to hear from you that there is a happily ever after, and it takes a while, but you've gotten there, I think is really, really kind of you to have taken the time to write this follow-up. And continued success to you.
12:29 Speaker 03 Inspiring, for sure.
12:30 Speaker 02 Absolutely. Coming up ahead, you know, it really hurts when your girlfriend lets you down.
12:40 Speaker 03 You better explain that.
12:41 Speaker 02 Southwest Airlines. What did you do to me? That's how people feel. I mean, it's crazy what a connection people have had to Southwest. And we got a lot of questions from people about it. And before I get to your questions, I'm going to talk about how I'm feeling with my hurt heart from what used to be known as the Love Airlines.
13:06 Speaker 03 Hmm.
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15:07 Speaker 02 A lot of us have had the opportunity, the privilege, to work with organizations that get taken over by private equity. And we know how ugly that is. But it's very seldom that a high-profile public company gets polluted by the poison of private equity. That happened to Southwest Airlines. Southwest had been going through a midlife crisis and didn't seem to have any sense of urgency. And so, sometimes the cure is worse than the disease. These private equity clowns came in and have really messed up Southwest.
15:52 Speaker 02 So I'm on the rocks with my girlfriend, for sure. Southwest has been so much a part of our family's travel for a generation. It's just really stinking. The thing is, the changes that have been announced at Southwest make it a poor imitation of the three full fare airlines, American, United, and Delta. And Southwest has decided, hey, we fly more people in the US than those folks do, so we're gonna mimic them. We're gonna be a me-too. And we're gonna have all kinds of gotchas and junk fees.
16:32 Speaker 02 And hey, and by the way, we just devalued our Rapid Rewards frequent flyer program, the value of earning by 75%. Joke's on you. And, I mean, it's just terrible. They didn't do a single thing that was customer-friendly. Everything they've done from these private equity clowns is cruel to the customers. So, they're nothing now. I mean, when all these changes go into effect, Southwest has no place in the marketplace available to it. So what will happen is, they'll have to rethink some of what they've done.
17:14 Speaker 02 They needed to do some change, but this is gonna be a rough ride for passengers and for the airline coming forward. What do people do? You treat them like dirt, they go somewhere else. So we'll see what happens because a lot of this stuff is future misery for passengers, not current misery with what the change is going into effect. I'm trying to think, who announces, so we're going to treat you like dirt these 18 different ways and it's going to go into effect later. Who does something that stupid? But anyway, that's
17:56 Speaker 02 what happened. And so I, I'm a free agent now.
18:02 Speaker 03 You're gonna go on some of those airline apps? Try to find another one?
18:06 Speaker 02 Well, I, well, I mean, yeah.
18:07 Speaker 03 Yeah, we're gonna have this new- Cheapskate, looking for better airline.
18:13 Speaker 02 Lonely Hearts Club, you know, because Southwest ripped its heart out of itself. So it'll be the Lonely Hearts Club.
18:20 Speaker 03 Prefers free bags, no seat assignments.
18:23 Speaker 02 Well, I don't check a bag anyway, but it was such a symbol for them and it gave them a marketplace reason to exist when they didn't have as frequent a flights. They don't have fancy stuff. I mean, it's just like, you ever seen the lounge that Southwest has?
18:40 Speaker 03 No.
18:41 Speaker 02 There is a one. Yeah. I mean, you know, they're trying to run with the big boys, the full fare guys, American, United and Delta, and they're not bringing anything to the ball. So it's gonna be really interesting. So my expectation, capitalists don't want to destroy themselves. And I think that a lot of these changes may be softened or changed as we move forward, but it does mean that people that have been extreme Southwest loyalists don't necessarily need to dump Southwest, but you need to rethink, because loyalty should be a two-way street, right? Right now, it's a one-way street and what we got coming towards us is a freight train.
19:28 Speaker 02 How do you think I feel about it?
19:30 Speaker 03 You are very, she hurt you bad. That's all I can say.
19:33 Speaker 02 She did hurt me bad. I will.
19:35 Speaker 03 Okay, but you're hoping she's gonna come back.
19:38 Speaker 02 I'm hoping.
19:39 Speaker 03 There's always still hope.
19:40 Speaker 02 You know, you can't, you can't change other people and you can't change organizations. But they want to survive and so hopefully the stupid index will be reduced. But I mean, this is, this is private equity 101. Over and over again, you see this with private equity clowns. And you know, you can be really, really bright and go to the best business school and have the best finance degree and all that. But you don't understand real life and that's what's going on here.
20:10 Speaker 03 Maybe it's time for Clark Air.
20:13 Speaker 03 Big green planes. I'd love it.
20:16 Speaker 02 You know, I wouldn't last long because I'd say, you want us to charge people that much?
20:24 Speaker 03 All right, we'll go to questions and the first one is about Southwest. Ben in New York wrote this, "My husband holds the Southwest Rapid Rewards Plus credit card and I'm an authorized user. We got this card a few years ago to take advantage of the companion pass promotion they were offering at the time. We are up for renewal and prior to the Southwest announcement that they are ending the free bag policy, we were planning on upgrading to their priority card because the flight credit and points essentially covered the cost of the higher annual fee. Now with Southwest ending virtually all of the benefits that set them apart from the other airlines, we likely won't fly them as much. Our local airport, Albany, New York, has been adding new airlines.
21:04 Speaker 03 Avelo, Breeze, Allegiant, and has had American, United, Delta, and JetBlue forever. So there's some competition, but we've always preferred Southwest. It's safe to say that our loyalty to them is now over. With that, would you say it's worth upgrading or simply canceling the card at this point? I've read that cardholders can still get one free bag, I'm assuming per trip and not per year. But would this extend to me as an authorized user? My name is printed on the card, but it's my husband's Rapid Rewards number that is printed on it. I would hate for us to take the credit score hit for closing the card. If we should get rid of it, can and should we switch to another Chase card instead of closing it? I know you've had the Southwest card for a while, so I'm curious to hear your thoughts on all of this."
21:49 Speaker 02 So my wife has been my carpool dummy for 20 straight years is my free companion.
21:56 Speaker 03 She's not gonna like this segment at all.
21:58 Speaker 02 No, she knows I refer to her as carpool dummy. So she's, she's always free flying with me on Southwest. I mean, it's incredible, the companion pass. We don't know what's gonna happen with it. They haven't said yet. But I am renewing my Rapid Rewards card when it comes up for renewal. And I think people should one more time, because we, again, these are future really crummy things they're doing. And we don't know what will stick and what doesn't. Now with the card, if I buy a ticket on Southwest and there's like a bunch of people on the reservation with me, everybody gets one free checked bag.
22:39 Speaker 03 Up to eight people.
22:40 Speaker 02 Up to, is it up to eight?
22:42 Speaker 03 Mm-hmm.
22:42 Speaker 02 The thing is, though, anybody I buy a ticket for, I mean, if they want to check a bag, I mean, they don't get to go on the trip. No, no, they can, they can check a bag if they want, even though I don't believe in checking bags. They can do it.
22:58 Speaker 03 But as a cardholder, even though you're an authorized, you have your own card.
23:03 Speaker 02 You'd still get the free bag if you were buying your own ticket. So that's all good. And you know, time will tell if you end up diverting your business to other airlines or you find that Southwest is still a good choice for you. That's the way it works. It's market share moves one place to another. I mean, I think, I think that airlines go through cycles. And you think about how many airlines have been bust. One that I think about is United. They had the worst reputation in the business. You know, they had the thing where they beat up that doctor and dragged him off a plane, broke his teeth and all that. There was a perfect example, all the horror of United.
23:48 Speaker 02 And while we haven't been looking, they've turned the quality of that airline way around. So organizations go through ups and downs. And this is just a down for Southwest right now.
24:03 Speaker 03 Armand in Texas says, I'm traveling from Austin, Texas to Dublin, Ireland in mid-August of 2025 to see the best band of all time, Oasis. I plan to go for about 10 days. I've done my fair share of international travel, but it's been a while, so I wanted to get your recommendation. When's the best time to book the flight? Should I check from other airports besides Austin? And how's the train system in Ireland? I know it's great in Europe, but is it the same?
24:29 Speaker 02 The train system in Ireland is in your imagination. You don't get around Ireland on a train. I've been to Ireland over and over again. That's not how you're getting around. You're going to have to deal with the hysteria of driving on the other side of the road, which is really not that hard unless you get a stick shift, which I enjoy the challenge of driving a stick shift with the wrong hand and then having to go around the roundabouts the other way and all that.
25:03 Speaker 03 The worst part to me was the incredibly narrow roads that were like made for like little mule carts.
25:11 Speaker 02 You took the words right out of my mouth. When you get out of the area around Dublin or South Tuchel, Kenny, and you start going pretty much anywhere else in Ireland, the roads are more like, like donkey paths. I mean, and they're supposedly they're two-way roads.
25:30 Speaker 03 We almost, you were driving us one time. We had gone to Cliffs Amore, I think, right?
25:34 Speaker 02 I tried to drive us off the road into rocks. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, that car had an early version. It was a Nissan with an early version. It's so weird you're talking about this because Lain and I just talked about that two nights ago. That we were in that Nissan and it had a rudimentary version of self-driving and I'm just talking and looking around and the car just drives right off the road.
26:00 Speaker 03 Yeah.
26:02 Speaker 02 Yeah, well, anyway.
26:05 Speaker 03 We survived.
26:06 Speaker 02 Let's answer your question now.
26:08 Speaker 03 Yeah, sorry.
26:08 Speaker 02 Because, I mean, poor Armon took the time to write this. We haven't answered a thing about the ticket. All right, so you are, as we are, last day of March, we're pushing right when you're going to start seeing the sale fares for summer. April is a really good time for you to be looking at summer fares. And the fares are erratic, but international fares, you want to buy not way early, but a little early. Domestic tickets more like six, eight weeks out. International, longer than that.
26:47 Speaker 02 But Austin is not going to be your bargain airport to go to Ireland or really most anywhere in Europe. So what I want you to do is go on Google Flights, set up a fare alert for fares from Austin to Dublin. And I also want you to set up fare alerts from Boston and New York. Because you can fly from Austin so inexpensively domestic. And you may find a fare out of Boston or New York, Boston where there's such a large Irish community. They've got Aer Lingus there and in New York. You may find that the fares are so much cheaper that you will want to go out of one of those.
27:29 Speaker 02 I have a friend who called me recently who's going to Ireland in June.
27:36 Speaker 02 He was going from Tampa and the fare from Tampa was how many times the cost of going out of New York? Three times the cost of going out of New York. So he and his wife are going to fly up to New York. They're spending two nights there enjoying New York. Then they're going to fly from New York to Dublin and pay a third of the price. It's a big difference.
28:00 Speaker 03 For sure. Janice in Georgia says, I'm 67 and recently contracted COVID.
28:05 Speaker 02 I hope you're okay now.
28:06 Speaker 03 I went to an urgent care and was told because I'm over 65 that it was in my best interest to have Paxlovid. As I drove to the pharmacy, I was glad I had Medicare, assuming it would be a reasonable price. To my astonishment, the cost was, Clark, take a few deep breaths here, $1,700. When I asked if Medicare had a discount, I was told that it would be $700. Like 99% of the population drove away.
28:32 Speaker 02 Right.
28:33 Speaker 03 Then after looking online, a friend found this info. The US government patient assistance program operated by Pfizer will provide eligible Medicare beneficiaries with free Paxlovid until December 31st of this year. Also, it provides this to various other groups, including people without insurance. This is outrageous that the doctors and pharmacies do not know or have chosen not to acknowledge this information. I want my fellow listeners to be aware.
28:57 Speaker 02 So first of all, you're writing this, so hopefully you're great now. The Paxlovid thing has been so confusing because at one time it was free for anyone. And now it's, it depends on the insurance you have. And in your case, as you found out with Medicare, if you apply for the assistance program, you don't pay. I had, last two cruises we went on, I got COVID on each cruise. So each time I took Paxlovid, one time it cost me $30 through my insurance, the other time it cost me $100. But if it was street price, it would have been more than $1,000.
29:41 Speaker 02 In your case, the pharmacy told you $1,700. So when you're feeling ill, the last thing you can process in your mind is, well, how am I going to get this at a discount? Takes a family member who's well to be noodling around and find how you can get it at a lower price or, as you pointed out. With Medicare potentially for free. Now, whether this is going to be extended after this year, very hard to know if there's going to be an extension with the attempts to reduce budgets, you know, federal spending, odds are it will not be. But in the meantime, if you are interested in taking Paxlovid, if you get COVID, or you're
30:24 Speaker 02 just curious what it is, it is something that's kind of like taking, um, what's the one for the flu that you have to take early when you get the flu?
30:34 Speaker 03 There's Tamiflu, and there's a new one that's just a one day one now.
30:37 Speaker 02 So with the, with the flu, you can greatly reduce the symptoms and the length of having the flu potentially. That's what Paxlovid does. Each time when I came down with COVID, I had one bad day after I started taking Paxlovid. The day I started taking Paxlovid, the next day, each time I woke up feeling completely normal. That was my experience. And yours could be different. But I found Paxlovid in my case to be a miracle drug. And my wife's like, why would you go on a cruise again? Cause our son loves them. That's why we go on cruises.
31:19 Speaker 02 Have an absolutely great, great day the rest of today and look forward to serving you on Wednesday. If you watch the YouTube show, seeing you on Wednesday. Today, what you should be doing? Empowering yourself with knowledge so you can save more, spend less, and avoid getting ripped off. And I was asked to explain something about how we do this with our Team Clark Consumer Action Center. It's actually something that sounds like this kind of thing still exists, where you for free get to talk one-on-one on a phone call. That's right.
32:01 Speaker 02 To get free advice about the problem you have, a question you have, whatever. You want to see how to do that? Go to Clark.com slash CAC. Have a great one.
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