Pod Insights The Clark Howard Podcast 03.02.26 Buy Now, Pay Later aka Pay-In-4 / Ask Your Pharmacist About this episode Today - Nearly every purchase we make offers the “opportunity” to pay over time. Why Clark seriously despises Pay-In-4. Also, Clark addresses the worsening doctor shortage and a related profession that can help fill the gap. The Pay-In-4 Trap: Segment 1 Ask Clark: Segment 2 Ask Your Pharmacist: Segment 3 Ask Clark: Segment 4 Mentioned on the show: Buy Now, Pay Later: A Helpful Tool or a Debt Trap? How Lemon Laws Safeguard Consumers from Defective Goods What Is a C. L. U. E Report and Its Impact on Your Insurance 5 Things To Know About Amazon Pharmacy Before You Sign Up Why Does Clark Howard Wear 2 Watches? [The Washington Post] Here’s a proven way to slow aging. Any volunteers? Clark.com resources: Episode transcripts Community. Clark.com / Ask Clark Clark.com daily money newsletter Consumer Action Center Free Helpline: 636-492-5275 Learn more about your ad choices: megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Transcript 0:00 Speaker 00 This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.
0:27 Speaker 01 Your sausage McMuffin with egg didn't change. Your receipt did. The sausage McMuffin with egg extra value meal includes a hash brown and a small coffee for just $5. Only at McDonald's for a limited time.
0:42 Speaker 02 Price and participation may vary. Promotion pricing may be lower than meal pricing.
0:44 Speaker 03 I'm so glad you're with us on the Clark Howard Show. Our mission is to serve you with advice and information that empowers you so that you make better financial decisions in your life. One decision you'll make is to subscribe to our free newsletters at Clark.com/newsletters. In today's episode, it seems like every purchase we make is giving us the opportunity to pay overtime. I want to tell you why I despise pay in for.
1:29 Speaker 03 Also, over time, I've talked repeatedly about the extreme shortage of primary care physicians in the United States. I've talked about NPs and PAs as filling the gap. I talked recently about doctors of osteopathic medicine are filling some of that primary care gap. But there's something else I've not talked about that I got a talking to by one of these professionals recently. And I thought, you know what? He's right. And I'm going to share that with you later in this podcast. So buy now, pay later, pay in four.
2:11 Speaker 03 This is something that became popular first in Australia. And like a plague that knows no boundaries, no ocean too big. Nothing was able to keep this hideous virus from infecting the United States. And now everywhere you turn online and then physically when you're in a store, pay in four, pay in four, pay in four, four easy payments. All designed to boost consumer spending. And it worked so well in Australia that banks in the United States could not wait to have it here.
2:56 Speaker 03 It is a trap, an ugly trap that harms people each and every day. Why am I so exercised about this? And I want you to think about it. You're going to buy an airline ticket. It says your credit card or pay in four, pay over time. You'll get notices now from your credit card saying, would you like to convert this purchase to pay in four? And then all kinds of discretionary items is where this is really focused.
3:35 Speaker 03 Because what will happen in consumer behavior is we'll be looking at something and we'll think, I don't know if I can really afford it. I mean, my credit cards, I don't want to charge anything else on them. I don't have the money to pay for it. And somehow, somehow the psychology of four easy payments.
4:01 Speaker 03 It's like this pixie dust that takes our reasoning power and temporarily disables it. Because what's happening out there is what already happened in Australia where this came from. So I remember when Pay and For was first coming and on this podcast, I said, there's something really bad coming here. Let me tell you how it's played elsewhere. And it's played out exactly like that. Am I a genius because I knew that? No. It was clear that we trick ourselves because we really want whatever it is. We want to do it.
4:44 Speaker 03 So we say, oh, it's gonna be fine. I'm just gonna make these four payments. But then what happens? Life happens. And the four payments don't get made. And then you can ruin your credit. And you can end up with all kinds of penalties and interest and all the rest. It's a bad brew. It's a bad recipe. So I'm just asking you, think about that temptation you're feeling when you're at the checkout box buying something online. Or you're at the cashier and you have the option right there to pay in four easy payments. There ain't anything easy about it.
5:29 Speaker 04 I've noticed also my credit cards, one of them especially when I look at my charges, you know, I check them regularly. Now I'm, I'm gonna have them all send me notices like, like the list, the Clarkies recommended. But anyway, there's options on the individual things I'm buying, pay over time, pay over time. It's like everywhere.
5:48 Speaker 03 It's pretty annoying, isn't it?
5:50 Speaker 04 Okay.
5:51 Speaker 03 Have you done it?
5:52 Speaker 04 No, I've never done it with that, with the credit card.
5:55 Speaker 03 I do, I just had this.
5:56 Speaker 04 No, I did, I did say on the podcast.
5:57 Speaker 03 Your eyes got really big when I said, have you done it?
6:00 Speaker 04 Oh, no. But I did, I admitted on the podcast that I did a Pay and For thing when I got my Peloton bike a while ago. And actually, when I, and I paid it off early, whatever, but it was 0% interest and I was like, why not? But then somebody wrote in that I stink because I don't take your advice.
6:17 Speaker 03 Why would you have to take my advice? You're a human being.
6:20 Speaker 04 I am. I'm not.
6:21 Speaker 03 And you, more than anybody, know how often I'm wrong.
6:25 Speaker 04 No way. No way. You're definitely right about this. All right. Big in North Carolina wrote in to you and said, hey, Clark, I know you're really into electric vehicles and I understand they're a big part of the future, but I've been wondering about something. With computers, manufacturers often stop supporting operating systems after four to seven years. What happens with electric vehicles, computers on wheels, as you call them, if someone plans to keep one for 10 to 20 years? How will software updates, operating systems, and long-term support be handled once the manufacturer decides to move on from that platform?
6:57 Speaker 03 This is such a great question. I don't have an answer to, and it's one I've wondered about. I've wondered aloud about it before here. You were right on the money. I have no idea. When you think about a laptop and there are all the issues with how long the computer was supported, the operating system, and then Apple came along and said, you know what? We're going to support your computer for, depending on the model, really long periods of time. And they made the Windows people and the Chromebook people look like they were not really watching out for the consumer. I don't know what's going to happen, but again, that's a laptop.
7:42 Speaker 03 You start talking about your wheels no longer working because the software is not supported. I don't have an answer for that yet.
7:51 Speaker 04 Okay. Dan in Georgia says, after driving different Tesla models for 11 years, I decided to give a competitor with equal or higher technology a try. So I thought, I leased a, should I just say what it is?
8:03 Speaker 03 Sure.
8:04 Speaker 04 A Lucid Gravity, their newest and most technologically advanced SUV, a month ago. What a disaster. Not only do they lack a ton of features I was accustomed to, but they also lack safety and reliability. Their system underperforms and occasionally stops working. It's brought me so much anxiety because I never know what won't work that day. Is there a way for me to get out of this lease? I'm truly on the verge of walking to their service center in my area, literally handing them back the keys, walking away and making it their problem to solve. Do you have any advice?
8:33 Speaker 03 So you've had a terrible time with Lucid. There are other people I know who love their Lucids, but what you have the right to do... Even in a lease in pretty much every state, you can employ the state lemon law. The more you delay, the more you sit on your rights and you lose them. If you're so new in this lease and you're like going crazy, you want to lemon law them right now. And there's a clear procedure where Lucid will be given an opportunity to fix the problems you're having with it. If they're unable to do so, they are both the manufacturer and the service center.
9:16 Speaker 03 So lemon laws did not anticipate that, but it means that your path to a potential buyback is much more expedited than it is when it involves a traditional automaker with traditional dealerships. So you're miserable, you want to find out your state lemon law procedure and send the first demand letter and get the process going and follow the lemon law process to the letter.
9:48 Speaker 04 Craig in Texas says, "I applied for a personal umbrella policy several months ago and Lexus Nexus was used by the company to review my background and credit. My wife and I have excellent credit that we monitor closely and have frozen with the three majors, but I wasn't familiar with this organization. I requested a copy of the report and a huge stack of paper was sent to me in the mail. There were addresses, phone numbers, and even people with the same last name in the report I didn't recognize. In many cases, entire records were just wrong. I called them and the process to correct the report was excruciating." "While entire records were incorrect, instead of dealing with them in whole, they had to process the entire report by individual line items. I was on the phone for nearly an hour trying to correct my report.
10:30 Speaker 04 When I received the updated version in the mail, there were still incorrect records and I'm ready to give up. I've since requested a freeze on that report, but how important is it for me to work to get all the records fixed? Given the three majors all seem to have the right info, I'm hoping your answer will be it's good enough. Thanks for all you do. You are my gym workout buddies." And I also had, it was weird, like a couple other people wrote in just the same week about Lexus Nexus reports and wondering what they need to do with them.
10:59 Speaker 03 Yeah, this is tough because so it's hard for me to get people to pay attention to their three main credit reports from Equifax, TransUnion, and Experian. But when you look at various collection bodies, I don't know that I'd call them credit bureaus, there are dozens and dozens and dozens of these. And you could drive yourself bonkers if you're reviewing each of those, you're freezing each of them. I mean, it's just one of those things that none of us are perfect in life. And I just want you to do the best you can with the most important things, which are the three major credit bureaus in terms of
11:44 Speaker 03 monitoring your credit and making sure you've set up credit freeze with all three bureaus. LexisNexis and so many databases work on a horseshoes basis. So you were finding a lot of wrong stuff likely on your LexisNexis because it also shows information for people of same or similar name to you. By the way, that same problem can happen with the three major credit bureaus. And this happens a lot with mortgage applications where they're doing what's known as a three in one, where they're taking data from all three of the major credit bureaus and blending them into one file. A lot of stray stuff for people
12:29 Speaker 03 of same or similar name will show up on that three in one also, and you'll have to answer questions when you're applying for a mortgage. So the LexisNexis inaccurate information that you found is part of a horseshoes process. It's close enough for them. It's not designed to be, I don't care what they say in the industry, it's not designed to be 100% accurate. So there are times that you could get rejected for something based on a credit report or a database file like LexisNexis.
13:07 Speaker 03 And it's not your information. And so I find when you move outside of the big three, it's a reactive instead of a proactive process like you did. And they're not used to dealing with the public. That's not their thing. And so you found the frustration involved in dealing with the information that was stray information. And it could have been very important. You could have been having a problem trying to get, you were trying to get, what was an umbrella policy? It could have been a problem getting the umbrella because of the blended information from other people. Likely it was on yours.
13:50 Speaker 03 So I wish I could tell you there was a way to just make these reports completely accurate. But the very nature of how all these organizations do business with the profiles they build on us is such that they will never be fully accurate. They'll be hopefully close, but they're not going to be fully accurate. Coming up ahead, something's ailing you. You can't get to a doctor because it's so hard to get an appointment. What do you do?
14:27 Speaker 00 This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.
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15:08 Speaker 02 Price and participation may vary. Promotion pricing may be lower than meal pricing.
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16:40 Speaker 03 So I talked about at the top of this podcast and YouTube show about how doctors, when they go, I didn't mention this at the top, but I was talking about the shortage of primary care doctors, how doctors go through all these years of schooling and every incentive is in their path that pushes them towards a specialization. Because primary care doctors and pediatricians are really penalized in the medical field in what they earn. So you have pretty much the same costs. In years and money to get through medical school, whether you go into a high paying specialization,
17:25 Speaker 03 or you go into relatively speaking, because we're talking about medicine here, you go into low paying, primary care, or being a Pete. And so what does the marketplace do? It allocates resources to where people are making more money, leading to this extreme shortage of primary care we have in the United States. And so so many Americans don't even have a primary care doctor anymore because of this. And even if you have one, they are so overworked that when something's ailing you, you may not be able to get an appointment.
18:08 Speaker 03 You may not even be able to get advice on the advice line. They'll have some practices call it the nurse line, advice line, whatever. You can't even reach anybody there. And you're sick. And a pharmacist said to me, why do I never mention how often pharmacists are the ones who end up having to give advice to people that is legal in some states and frowned upon in others? But pharmacists are the point of contact that so many people have more of a relationship with now than with a doctor. Now, obviously, we have to fix this market imbalance. And I've talked about that.
18:53 Speaker 03 And at the top, I talked about physician assistants, nurse practitioners, doctors of osteopathic medicine, who are filling in some of this gap going on with how medical schools are set up and the whole system is set up to steer students away from direct point of contact, primary care. The economics are all messed up. And so who knows you often is that pharmacist? And you know, the pharmacists are the best line of defense. When you do go to specialists and you could potentially have a drug
19:37 Speaker 03 interaction problem with something that one specialist has prescribed. And then another specialist prescribed something and the two together, they're not friendly with each other. And doctors are now so in their silos and they don't talk to each other. And the only one who's the good point of contact in this is the pharmacist who sees what you're on and says, oh, well, I'm not sure this is a good idea here. So I'm not saying that pharmacists should practice medicine without a license,
20:16 Speaker 03 but there's a lot of experience, knowledge and skill in that pharmacist that when the doctor is not available to you, they may be a viable help to you. I didn't say viable alternative.
20:32 Speaker 04 Okay.
20:34 Speaker 03 You ever ask pharmacists for advice?
20:36 Speaker 04 No.
20:36 Speaker 03 You've never done that?
20:37 Speaker 04 Only if it's.
20:38 Speaker 03 I sure have.
20:39 Speaker 04 I have about over the counter stuff, like which thing do you think I should get for this? That kind of thing. Okay. Bruce in Florida says, wanted to share that I had throat cancer five years ago and I'm in full remission.
20:52 Speaker 03 Well, I'm sorry you had it and congratulations for being in full remission.
20:56 Speaker 04 And I have to use a prescription toothpaste daily. I have insurance, but none of them cover this. The typical cost is about $42 per bottle.
21:06 Speaker 03 What? For toothpaste?
21:08 Speaker 04 Special prescription toothpaste.
21:10 Speaker 03 Wow.
21:11 Speaker 04 But Amazon Pharmacy filled it for $20, including free overnight shipping. I heard you talk about the Amazon telehealth and this reminded me of this great service from Amazon Pharmacy. As a side note, I had my cancer treatment through the VA Health System. I'm retired military.
21:26 Speaker 03 Thank you for your service.
21:28 Speaker 04 And they were amazing and very professional. I wanted to share a positive word about them as they seemed to get so much negative press for their healthcare delivery.
21:35 Speaker 03 Well, thank you. Everything you said was such a wonderful thing, other than the fact that you were diagnosed with cancer five years ago, but everything after that, so positive. And thank you for reiterating how the Amazon Pharmacy operation is something that Amazon Prime members should absolutely be paying attention to. It works very differently than others. They had bought an independent online pharmacy outfit, had a very clever way of packaging people's prescriptions, and the Amazon people thought, that's unique in the marketplace. We want a piece of that. And so they got a piece of it. They bought
22:19 Speaker 03 the whole thing. And the pricing is not Costco level pharmacy pricing, but the prices are generally very good.
22:29 Speaker 04 Melanie in North Carolina says, Clark, I'm interested in a smart ring for deeper sleep, fitness, and potentially cycle tracking. I know you wear an Aura ring, but the monthly subscription gives me pause, and I've seen so many other competitors now. Do you think Aura is still worth it, or any of these alternatives viable? Also, with Aura and smart rings in general, I've noticed the different colors and finishes vary a lot in price. Does it make more sense to buy the less expensive base color and add a cover later, or just pay for the pricier finish upfront? For context, I already wear a Fitbit Inspire 2. Thank you.
23:02 Speaker 03 Okay, thank you for your post. And Melanie, Aura obviously is not alone with the rings. Aura, though, seems to be ahead of others in terms of all the health and sleeping data that they provide. Garmin has been trying a lot with certain Garmin devices that are trying directly to
23:29 Speaker 03 In my opinion, to compete with Aura, that are traditional Garmin watches, but that are designed to track your sleep. And you have to see if you're comfortable wearing that, or it's cheaper. I'm not aware of Garmin having any subscriptions you have to pay for access to the health and sleep data. Also, if you look at some of the technology sites that test these things, there are lots of reviews and arguments about other fitness rings or health rings that do not charge a monthly subscription and comparing their sleep and health data to Aura.
24:11 Speaker 03 And I think if you don't want to pay the Aura monthly fee, looking at some of those reviews online would be helpful to you, seeing if there is an alternative ring. The advantage of a ring over a watch, apparently, is that people have a harder time keeping the watches on consistently. And the ring has so many touch points in your finger that the data may potentially be better. You hear how I'm hedging? Because I am so far from a scientist or a tech expert. I don't know what to say.
24:49 Speaker 04 I can't sleep with a watch on. That's my problem. So I need the Aura ring for sleep.
24:52 Speaker 03 I never sleep with a watch on. But the Aura, I mean, I've had an Aura now over five and a half years. And to say I have an addiction problem to Aura, I do.
25:04 Speaker 04 That's a healthy one. So.
25:06 Speaker 03 And I got a really bad night's sleep last night, according to Aura, and bad readiness score. And my wife, Laine, laughs that I don't trust my own gut feeling on what kind of night's sleep I got. I decide that whatever Aura says is how I actually slept.
25:25 Speaker 04 That's true. It can get me down sometimes if I have a bad sleep score. So two quick things. One is you can use HSA or flexible spending account money for an Aura ring. I assume. The other ones might qualify as well, but you could, so that way you could get it tax free. And then in terms of the finishes, I don't know of.
25:46 Speaker 03 Oh, I didn't answer that. I just buy the cheapest one.
25:49 Speaker 04 And in terms of the subscription, you were grandfathered in, but then didn't you have to get a new one and you have to pay the fee now?
25:56 Speaker 03 So I thought I was supposed to be, but that hadn't happened yet.
26:00 Speaker 04 Okay, but you are willing to. In your case, it's worth it to you.
26:04 Speaker 03 Yeah, I pride this thing from my.
26:08 Speaker 04 So what is it?
26:08 Speaker 03 Cold dead finger, right?
26:10 Speaker 04 Is it $6 a month? Is that what it is?
26:12 Speaker 03 Well, you know, I haven't had to pay it, so I don't know.
26:14 Speaker 04 I think it is. So that's.
26:16 Speaker 03 Seventy-two a year.
26:17 Speaker 04 Yeah.
26:18 Speaker 03 If it's six.
26:19 Speaker 04 Yeah. So you have to, I guess, decide if you think it's worth that.
26:24 Speaker 03 For me, it's invaluable because to see what's going on with my heart every day since I've had heart trouble is really, really important and valuable to me.
26:35 Speaker 04 Dan in California says, first of all, thank you for all the great advice throughout the years. My question's about accessing sensitive accounts when you're not at home. If I'm staying at a hotel, is there a way for me to safely access my brokerage account?
26:48 Speaker 03 Absolutely. Never on the hotel wifi. Don't do it. Now, a lot of people have said in the past, well, I use a VPN. Okay. My favorite is that you use your phone and you access the account over the app provided by the brokerage. And you're on the cellular of your phone rather than the wifi wherever you are. When you look at levels of risk doing different things, the safest I know is using the apps from the various brokerages and banks. And you also, in terms of burden for hacking or whatever,
27:33 Speaker 03 you're reducing the burden of proof on you when you're using their own app.
27:41 Speaker 03 At your brokerage.
27:42 Speaker 04 Also, I need to access certain things for the company, you know, paying invoices and things like that on my computer. And so I always make sure my phone plan has a hotspot and I use my Wi-Fi hotspot.
27:55 Speaker 03 I should have said that.
27:56 Speaker 04 On cellular too.
27:57 Speaker 03 Yeah, I apologize. I should have mentioned that as well. Thank you, Krista.
28:01 Speaker 04 Sure.
28:02 Speaker 03 Well, I appreciate, I mean, think about the variety of questions you threw at me today, including the one that I was like, I don't know about if you buy an electric vehicle, which is basically a computer on wheels. At some point, if they stop supporting it, do you have a junkyard vehicle at that point? Because you can't even drive it anymore. Yuck. Who knows? But I appreciate you bringing perspectives to me that I've not thought about. And in other cases, that I'm able to provide you with information that is useful and helpful
28:41 Speaker 03 to you. We all are in this together. And I am so thankful that we're able to work together to help each other. Just in everyday life, I brought this up about a month ago. I'm so thrilled that for the first time in years, Americans are volunteering more again, doing things to make their neighborhood, their community and their country better. And how about you? If you have gotten out of the habit of volunteering, is there something you've been invited to, to help on a Saturday or something that you just didn't make time
29:23 Speaker 03 for? Be part of making a difference and making things better around us. And it makes you feel great, too, when you go out and volunteer. So do things to help one another whenever you can. With that having been said, the help that we're all about is giving you ideas and information, knowledge, so you can save more, spend less, and avoid getting ripped off. And I'll see you on Wednesday.
29:59 Speaker 01 Your sausage McMuffin with egg didn't change. Your receipt did. The sausage McMuffin with egg extra value meal includes a hash brown and a small coffee for just $5. Only at McDonald's for a limited time.
30:12 Speaker 07 Price and participation may vary. Promotion pricing may be lower than meal pricing. When you're building a company, you learn that trust is what closes deals. You may have the best product, but buyers won't sign without proof that your product is secure, especially if it has AI. Vanta gets you compliant fast with SOC 2, ISO 27001 and more, and keeps you secure with continuous monitoring. Hyperbound, a YC-backed startup, used Vanta to unlock the Fortune 100 in under a year. Snowfire got audit-ready in a month and closed a multimillion-dollar deal. Trust matters. Get started at vanta.com.
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