02.04.26 Love & Money / Which Documents Should You Keep

Valentine’s Day approaches. What can spoil the romance in any relationship? Fighting over money. Clark emphasizes the importance of ongoing "low-voltage" conversations around financial goals. Also - What paperwork should you hang onto and for how long? Clark’s guide provides a clear strategy for organizing your financial life and protecting your assets. Couples & Money: Segment 1 Ask Clark: Segment 2 Record Keeping: Segment 3 Ask Clark: Segment 4 Mentioned on the show: 14 Ways to Save on Valentine's Day Clark Howard's 5 Money Tips for Couples What Is Umbrella Insurance and Do You Need It? 7 Most Common Financial Regrets Which Documents Should You Keep and for How Long? Amortization Calculator and Schedule - Clark Howard How Can I Fight an Unfair Rental Car Charge? Why Clark Howard Refuses To Rent a Car From Hertz BBB-File a Complaint Chase Sapphire Reserve® vs. Chase Sapphire Preferred® Card: Which Travel Card Is Best For You? 5 Things to Know About the Costco Car Rental Program Car Rental Insurance: Everything You Need To Know Credit Card Car Rental Insurance: What You Need To Know Clark.com resources: Episode transcripts Community. Clark.com / Ask Clark Clark.com daily money newsletter Consumer Action Center Free Helpline: 636-492-5275 Learn more about your ad choices: megaphone.fm/adchoice Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:04Speaker 02

  I'm so glad you're with us here on the Clark Howard Show. You know, our mission is to serve you with advice and information that empowers you to make better financial decisions in your life. In today's show, we're coming up on Valentine's Day. And I was early on this when Valentine's Day stuff went out on the shelves at Dollar Tree. The first week of January, I already got all the stuff for Lane for Valentine's Day. So it cost me $4.75 or something for the stuff that I got her for Valentine's Day. Kristy, you're looking at me like you could kill me. I know. I'm just like, what?

• 1:49Speaker 02

  What did you get her? Too much? I'm not going to say because what if somebody tells her, then there's no surprise. Okay. Okay. So here's the funniest thing about me. I'm sorry, I'm diverting from what we're gonna talk about.

• 2:01Speaker 03

  Okay, you can say it and just tell people not to tell her and they won't.

• 2:04Speaker 02

  No, no, okay, gotta hear this. So, when I see something that's a deal, whatever it is that I know she'd like for her birthday, or whatever, anniversary. So I'll see a deal, I buy something, and then I hide it. But what's terrible, I'm so flaky.

• 2:23Speaker 03

  Oh gosh, you forget?

• 2:24Speaker 02

  No, I don't forget that I bought stuff, I don't remember where I put it.

• 2:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:30Speaker 02

  Oh, pitiful.

• 2:32Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 2:33Speaker 02

  I will. So, I have stored in my memory exactly where I had the four items I got her from Dollar Tree.

• 2:41Speaker 03

  Oh, you got them all from the Dollar Tree, wow.

• 2:44Speaker 02

  It's been too much. Anyway, so, we got Valentine's Day coming up, and you think about the romantic things that would be cool to do, but there's something not romantic that undermines relationships and marriages more than any other thing. I'm gonna talk about that right ahead. And also, I had a podcast question two weeks ago, three weeks ago. Somebody wanting to know how long to hold on to documents, what documents to hold on to. And I promised at that time that I would get around to doing that, and so we're gonna do that, the second part of this podcast. All right.

• 3:28Speaker 02

  So what is it that we do that completely undermines a marriage, a relationship? It's how we handle money as a couple. And you know, the things that go on where people will get into these ugly arguments about money and can undermine a marriage or a relationship. You know what else does it? Lying about money. Hiding money. Not talking about things is so important.

• 4:07Speaker 02

  Because you don't want to wait till you've built up resentment, anger, arguments. It starts with conversations and not when there's a crisis. I think about over the years, how many relationships disintegrate because of issues about money in that relationship? I did these series of specials on cable television, working with couples, doing interventions with couples who were crumbling as a couple because of spending problems or debt.

• 4:43Speaker 02

  And what was so clear in talking to these couples was they were silent from each other about what their goals were. What was going on in their head? They weren't having low voltage, not when they were angry, conversations about where they were trying to go in their life and where they hoped they went together in their lives financially. So here's what I ask you. You know, do the romantic things for Valentine's Day.

• 5:17Speaker 02

  Be romantic all year long, but don't undermine that love that brought you together by having money mess it up. You're not necessarily always going to agree on how money should be handled, but you've got to compromise and you've got to discuss. And it's not a conversation. It's an ongoing conversation that you have about money. So that you don't forget what brought you together in the first place? What created that bond of love between you? By having money, throw that away. So start today or sometime soon.

• 6:03Speaker 02

  Say, "Hey."

• 6:05Speaker 02

  What do you think? And pose things as questions, not as statements to the one you love. And try to get into a cycle where you talk regularly on a schedule. Cause if you try to do it spontaneously, it's never going to come around. Right? You schedule it like anything else, like you would schedule an appointment at a doctor or something. You schedule a time, low voltage to talk about goals, how you're doing. You gotta have a roadmap. You don't know what you're trying to accomplish. How are you going to get there? And then remember compromise.

• 6:49Speaker 02

  Compromise is key. Not one person rolling over for what the other wants. Compromising to get to goals that you can both be comfortable with. And you can get back to just enjoying each other instead of resenting stuff about money.

• 7:09Speaker 03

  Okay. You ready for some questions?

• 7:11Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 7:11Speaker 03

  This is from Josephine in Texas. My husband and I are going to get umbrella insurance. When we do, what can we cut back on or eliminate from our car insurance coverage? And what do we need to keep on our car insurance coverage?

• 7:23Speaker 02

  Josephine, don't hate me. I'm just the messenger here. When you add an umbrella to your auto insurance policy or for the various types of insurance you have, if you're a homeowner and all that, the insurer that sells you the umbrella will require a level of underlying liability coverage on your auto policy. And if you own a home, on your homeowner's policy. So believe it or not, you may have to beef up coverages on auto or homeowners. All you have to ask is what is the required level of liability insurance on auto? And if you already have a lot.

• 8:08Speaker 02

  You may be able to do what you said. You may be able to reduce the liability coverage in the auto insurance policy because you have the overlay of the umbrella. It'll just depend on the rules of the insurer you buy the umbrella from.

• 8:23Speaker 03

  Barbara in New York says, "You want to help a relative pay down or pay off a student loan? Especially those loans with high interest rates compounded daily that the IRS only allows $2,500 in deductible interest. I took out a low-interest 10-year home equity loan, back then at 3% interest. My son-in-law was paying 8 1/4% compounded daily, which amounted to over $4,500 in yearly interest payments. So they were never getting ahead of it. I paid off the balance and charged 4% interest, which he paid back automatically and a lot sooner than he would have. Never missed a payment. If you can afford it, you could also take assets from your portfolio to do something similar. I'd rather help them while I'm alive."

• 9:05Speaker 02

  All right. First of all, Barbara, you win the mother-in-law club.

• 9:08Speaker 03

  Oh, my gosh, yeah.

• 9:09Speaker 02

  Right here. Absolutely. Because there's always a dicey situation when you take on a financial responsibility for a loved one, a relative, or if you just pay something for them and they promise they're going to pay you back. Man, have we heard a lot of stories where people did that and the person the money was lent to or taken care of by didn't honor their part of it. You did something wonderful out of love. It didn't hurt you at all, and it was an enormous help to your son-in-law. And I love, I can tell what kind of wonderful generous heart you have.

• 9:53Speaker 03

  Yep. You definitely have to be able to trust that person. I mean, it's a tale of caution as well. Like, it's great, and this is a wonderful story, but...

• 10:00Speaker 02

  You hear both of us saying the same stuff.

• 10:03Speaker 03

  I mean, yeah.

• 10:03Speaker 02

  Because we are a bit traumatized about lending money to family because what we hear about is not a story with a happy ending like yours. It worked out great.

• 10:14Speaker 03

  Especially when it comes to, like, cosigning, too.

• 10:17Speaker 02

  Oh, cosigning.

• 10:18Speaker 03

  Cosigning on a car loan with a boyfriend or girlfriend. Yeah.

• 10:23Speaker 02

  Okay, when should you ever cosign on a vehicle loan for a boyfriend or girlfriend? The answer to that is never, never, never, not ever.

• 10:36Speaker 03

  Okay, Len in Georgia says, "When people trade points in for a hotel stay, how does the hotel get paid?"

• 10:42Speaker 02

  Okay, this is fascinating, and it's not exactly uniform across the industry, but it's a general vibe about how it works. Have you ever noticed, like, if you're looking, if you abuse yourself and you collect points in the Marriott Bonvoy program, and you see that your points are worth like a fraction of a penny, it seems, and you notice that the rates are completely variable on points? And then they'll have like saver awards on Bonvoy, and it works similarly on Hilton. Hyatt is every frequent traveler's friend for a hotel program

• 11:25Speaker 02

  because their redemptions for stays are so wonderfully good in terms of points that you have to use for a stay. But normally in the hotel business, you see those variable point totals. So if a hotel is light on occupancy during a time you want to stay, under their contract with the, with the company, you know, the big hotel brands, as a general rule, they are paid a minimal amount of money when the hotel is at lower occupancies. Enough to cover the cleaning of the room and a little fee for that room being put into service.

• 12:08Speaker 02

  On the other hand, if occupancies go above certain thresholds, that's why you see the point totals required to pay for a night go up so much because then the hotel brand is paying the hotel the amount of money that they would have earned from somebody essentially who was paying dollars for that room. So at one end during, let's say you're in an area of very low time for that hotel or that area occupancy is very low, you're having to redeem very few points because the hotel is getting a really bad pay reimbursement for it.

• 12:50Speaker 02

  Again, when a hotel is really busy, you got to use a lot more points because the hotel is getting money substituting from the hotel brand what they would have gotten from you walking up and putting down your credit card to pay for that night. Coming up ahead, let's talk about stuff you got. Paperwork, contracts. What do you keep? What do you ditch? And for how long do you keep it? And here's another thing. How should you keep those records?

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• 15:55Speaker 02

  So there are people who are unbelievably detailed about keeping records and end up with those transfer cases, box after box after box, over the years, storing records that long ago, they just don't need. And then there are other people who can't find anything because they don't keep anything or they don't file it. So what I try to do when I answer the question that was posed to me a few weeks ago that I'm now answering, is I try to hit a middle course where it's not too much burden for

• 16:36Speaker 02

  you to keep stuff, and you don't end up with too much stuff you're keeping, but you keep things that are important. I want to start with cars. I never even used to talk about keeping records for cars. But today, it's become more important because the average age of vehicles is much older. And you could have warranty issues, you could have a variety of things that mean that keeping detailed records become more important, especially with the problems we've heard with some automakers, that if you can't produce records of having done maintenance and the cycles recommended, they try to claim your warranty on the vehicle is no longer valid.

• 17:20Speaker 02

  And you could be hit with a big cost of a repair for something. So keeping records on a vehicle is all about your ownership cycle. You don't own one anymore, you're fine. But when you own it, you want to absolutely keep records. Let's say you do some of the maintenance on your vehicle yourself. There are a lot of people that like doing that. And you go to the auto parts store to buy stuff. You need to file that away. So if they say, well, you missed an oil change at so and so point, or you didn't do this or that. So we're not covering you under warranty. You want to keep those records.

• 18:01Speaker 02

  If you are someone who traditionally by rote, you go to have your maintenance done at the franchise dealer for that brand, then they will have the digital records of what's been done and that things have been done when they're supposed to be. You want to keep solid records of payments, if you have a loan, that you've made your payments. Those can be done a number of different ways electronically, whatever. The problem here is loans are sold. And vehicle loans are not sold nearly as often as mortgages. But you want to keep good records. So if your loan's sold, you know what the balance was supposed to be and know when the transfer

• 18:46Speaker 02

  of servicing for that auto loan, they could suddenly make phantoms of some of your payments that happened through the transaction cycle of servicing going from one lender to another. So you want to keep those good records. And when you've paid off your loan, you want to have something you print out. I know that's weird, a lot of people don't have printers. Or that you do a PDF that you store that shows that you have completed your payments on that vehicle.

• 19:17Speaker 02

  Insurance policies of any kind, you keep them as long as those policies are active. Really simple. When you, let's say you move from one auto insurer to another. You can dump the records from the old auto insurer. You move from one homeowner's insurer to another. You can dump the old records, but the current ones you want to have. You need to know what your coverages are, all those things. Your mortgage, this is one where they're sold a lot. Gosh, I remember we had somebody pose a question to us who said that their mortgage loan servicing had been sold five times, five times.

• 19:58Speaker 02

  And let me tell you, when those mortgages move around, they lose track of the balance. Not always, but it happens more than you might imagine. And if you have not kept good records of your payments you've made and what the balance should be, and you just print out your own simple AM schedule, amortization schedule, they're available free, you know, simply by doing a search for amortization schedule, put in your interest rate, term of the loan, when it started, and you'll see right there. If you're ever making extra payments on a mortgage by paying additional principal,

• 20:37Speaker 02

  always keep your own up-to-date amortization schedule of what that balance should be so that you're not trusting a lender that's not trying to cheat you. I want to make it clear, I say a lot of trash talk about the banks, but this is not one where they're actively trying to cheat you. It is an issue of competence with the banks that they get the balances wrong when loans move around on car loans and home loans. When you've paid off a mortgage, you want to keep the records that you paid off that mortgage. That one, gosh, I keep those forever. I don't know why, but I do.

• 21:18Speaker 02

  You at least want to keep it for as long as you have owned that home until you've closed on the sale of it. And that everything's right at the closing table, then you could probably throw away those records. Any things you do that adjustments known as the basis of your home, you need to keep as long as you own your home. Basis is what you're taxed on. If your home appreciates a great deal over the years, you don't just take what you paid for the home and what you sold it for. There are certain improvements you do to a home, and especially things you do as you're getting it ready to sell, that reduce the amount that you're exposed to that you would owe for tax.

• 22:03Speaker 02

  And tax returns, keep your return and all documentation with it for six years. Either digitally, since most returns are now filed digitally, or if you still have paper, you keep paper of those returns and the documentation for six years. The reason is, if the IRS alleges that you underpaid, they can come back and say, well, where's your proof you had this, that, this thing or that thing? You've got to be able to prove it. And keeping your supporting documents is key.

• 22:40Speaker 02

  The actual return I file, I keep a digital or older ones. I have the paper going back way further than I need to. I mean, back several decades, because the IRS, if they ever allege you failed to file.

• 22:58Speaker 02

  And you can't prove you did? Bad news. You know what else you need to keep solidly? Your student loan payment records. From when you get a student loan till it's done being paid for. It drives me nuts. People who are being hassled by a debt collector saying that they owe for a loan that you know you long since paid off. You keep those student loan records for pretty much your whole life. And I've got more categories that are in a chart. You can see what you keep, what you don't, how long you keep at Clark.com.

• 23:39Speaker 02

  On our list of which documents should you keep? And for how long?

• 23:47Speaker 03

  All right, we'll go to questions. Paolo in Florida sent this one in. I booked a rental car through Priceline and was shocked to see an undisclosed added roadside assistance junk fee at $8.99 a day. It definitely was not on the Priceline quote, nor at the time of pickup. The manager refused to waive it, only stating that it's in the fine print added to all contracts, adding that they're independently owned and there is no headquarters to contact and resolve this.

• 24:15Speaker 02

  Okay, first of all, the last part is a bit of hooey. Now, this is one of the third tier brands owned by one of the big three. Pretty much all car brands are owned, except for sixth, which is its own family owned operation from Europe. Are owned by the biggest of all, which is Enterprise, which owns National and Alamo. Avis, which owns Budget. Hertz, which owns Hertz Dollar, Thrifty, somebody else as well. And you start getting to some of the third tier brands of these companies.

• 24:56Speaker 02

  And they are usually franchised, not company owned. Some of them are a bit Wild West in how they behave. To tell you that there's nobody you can complain to. Yes, there is, and you complain to the parent company of this car rental agency, which happens to be one that's owned by Hertz. Hertz has not had a great reputation of late. We've talked about that for years. I will not rent from Hertz or any of its brands. I'm not calling for a boycott. I'm just saying there's too many problems with the customer service equation. But you should complain to Hertz about the problem you had with one of their junior brands

• 25:41Speaker 02

  and see if they will do anything for you. There are no other organizations you can complain to, except the Better Business Bureau may pay off in this case. And you would file that at BBB.org. It's not against the individual franchisee. It's against the brand of the vehicle rental service that you're complaining to. But the junk fee thing is a terrible problem. I told a story two years ago about going to a funeral on the podcast. You may or may not have heard this or remember this story.

• 26:21Speaker 02

  But I rented, funerals are last minute things, had a hard time finding an affordable rental car, and I broke my rule and rented with one of the third level brands. And there was a junk fee on it for gasoline, even though I'd already filled the vehicle and they had marked, you know, that I'd paid full. They charged me $24.99 extra for a fuel convenience fee. Hmm. Whatever that was. Isn't that convenient? Yeah. And it took me a while to get that money back, but I kept pushing levers till I got the money back. And just know, it is a problem of long note in the car rental industry that some of the

• 27:06Speaker 02

  franchise owners don't play right or fair with how they treat you. And you always want to state your case before you leave that rental car area. When they give you your check-in statement, you want to go right there and see if you can get it resolved in person. Don't act abusive. Don't be aggressive. The person you're talking to, that frontline worker, it's not their fault that the owner of that franchise is dishonest and unethical. So you want to just be polite, state your case, and most often in travel, the best, most effective way to solve a problem is at the time it's happened.

• 27:49Speaker 03

  Yes, but Paulo said that it was not on the quote or the, at the time of pickup pick for work.

• 27:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, I hear that. And I'd be curious to see a contract that hides that in those long, long mice type terms of service.

• 28:04Speaker 03

  All right. Ann in Illinois says, my Chase Sapphire Preferred card has trip delay reimbursement and trip cancellation interruption insurance is one of its benefits. Do I still need to purchase separate travel insurance if I am purchasing a tour? Or would the card benefit cover a flight or tour cancellation? I gave you, there's the name of the

• 28:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, I see that.

• 28:23Speaker 03

  Four operator.

• 28:23Speaker 02

  Right. So in terms of using credit card trip cancellation, trip interruption insurance, you need to read the dollar limits. I don't know the dollar limit on the preferred, on the reserve. I think it's $10,000 per trip. A lot of tours can outrun the dollar cap on a trip cancellation, trip interruption policy. You also need to think through, Ann, with you sign into the Chase portal, you look at the rules for the trip cancellation,

• 29:02Speaker 02

  trip interruption insurance, read what the limitations are to see if it's sufficient for the life circumstances you're concerned about that you might have to draw on.

• 29:14Speaker 03

  So the insurance is the same whether you have preferred or reserve?

• 29:18Speaker 02

  So it's the 10,000 cap. I said, that's, that's amazing on a card with an annual fee.

• 29:26Speaker 03

  It's a reimburse up to $10,000 per covered traveler and 20,000 per trip.

• 29:30Speaker 02

  That's so crazy generous of Chase. And you can read, Krista pulled it up, the terms and limitations are written. I'm looking at this.

• 29:44Speaker 02

  Don't they know this is an insurance product? I mean, it seems understandable in human English.

• 29:50Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:51Speaker 02

  Wow, that's such a shock. But anyway, we've talked about before, for people who don't travel like maniacs, but you want to have a lot of the travel benefits, the Chase Sapphire Preferred, which is annual fee of 95 or 99, whatever, is the best deal in the marketplace on a companion card for travel for someone who doesn't want to pay all those huge annual fees for the big reward cards kind of thing. Sapphire Preferred is the best, I'd say, for a modest traveler.

• 30:30Speaker 03

  Mike in Florida says, "When I rent cars through Costco Travel, they offer insurance through a company. It is usually around $5 a day, which is always much cheaper than what the agent at the rental car company will offer. Do you know anything about this insurer? I always get the insurance after hearing the horror stories on your podcast."

• 30:48Speaker 02

  So, this is obviously a good deal because you buy the coverages from the car rental agency and it'll usually be $30 to $50 a day. And it costs them, I saw an analysis that for the insurers, the car rental companies, the cost is actually less than a dollar a day for them, what they charge you, the huge markups. And so, if you're, if you don't want to take chances, you don't want to use one of the credit cards like we were just talking about for car rental coverage. The Costco product is very affordable, $5 a day. We had a question recently, or a statement from somebody recently,

• 31:33Speaker 02

  about the American Express coverage for people with certain American Express cards where you pay $20 flat rate for the course of a rental of a car. And these coverages work generally as primary coverage. And I've never had a complaint or a question before, right now.

• 31:55Speaker 02

  About the auto coverage available through Costco Travel. And Mike, what I want you to do is I want you to make sure that the coverage is primary coverage and not secondary. The distinction that's so significant, you always want the coverage to feel comfortable to be primary because it means you don't have to involve your own auto insurer in a coordinated claim because it's really messy with your own insurer, the insurance product you have or from a credit card, and then the car rental agency. And everybody's pointing fingers at each other and you're the one in the squeeze play.

• 32:37Speaker 02

  Remember, primary car rental coverage is what counts. And thank you so much for joining us today. I hope you enjoyed today's show, learned something that's helpful to you in your life today.

• 32:54Speaker 03

  I just learned something. It's not primary generally, unless you're outside the US, it's secondary coverage.

• 33:00Speaker 02

  So, reserve is primary?

• 33:02Speaker 03

  No, this is, this is the Costco.

• 33:04Speaker 02

  Oh, the Costco secondary?

• 33:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:06Speaker 02

  So that answers the question. That was quick, Krista.

• 33:10Speaker 03

  I'm not quick enough.

• 33:11Speaker 02

  No, you talked about customer service. I was saying, hey, you need to go check to see if it's primary or secondary. If it's secondary, not worth the money. It's not good enough. Five dollars a day for secondary is not a Costco kind of price, in my opinion. So, that would not be enough for you to feel comfortable and satisfied with. So, thank you for turning that. How did you do that so quickly?

• 33:40Speaker 03

  I type pretty fast.

• 33:42Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 33:44Speaker 02

  English major genius.

• 33:46Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 33:47Speaker 02

  That's what it is, right?

• 33:48Speaker 03

  Definitely.

• 33:51Speaker 02

  All right. Well, again, thank you so much for being with us. And I love that we gave that kind of service right away. And know that we serve you so many different ways every day. And I enjoy so much having the opportunity to share with you and learn with you. And Friday is when I get to learn again because we'll have our next Clark stinks where we get to find out when I was thick in the head, just plain dumb, whatever, we learn from each other all together. None of us in life have all the answers and anybody who thinks they have all the answers, let me tell you something, they don't. But I'll

• 34:36Speaker 02

  tell you what we're devoted to is you and you being empowered with knowledge so you can save more, spend less and avoid being ripped off. Or someone said in a post, why don't you say anymore? Never, never, never, not ever get ripped off. See, there you have it. I did it.

• 35:02Speaker 05

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• 35:40Speaker 04

  With custom window treatments made to fit your style, space and budget, customers who shop at blinds.com experienced overwhelming satisfaction. Side effects may include a fuller, deeper night's sleep and the sudden urge to host the watch party again. Blinds.com isn't a medication, but it can improve how you feel about your home. Shop Black Friday all month long at blinds.com. Don't miss huge deals dropping every week.