Pod Insights The Clark Howard Podcast 01.15.25 A Plan For Credit Card Debt / Direct & Free Tax Filing About this episode Many Americans are stressed about spending decisions made over the holidays as the credit card bills roll in. Today, a Clark smart assignment for dealing with debt. Also rolling in soon are tax documents. Clark has advice on tax preparation, free filing, and more. Credit Card Debt: Segment 1 Ask Clark: Segment 2 This Tax Season: Segment 3 Ask Clark: Segment 4 Mentioned on the show: Clark Howard's 2024 Credit Card Debt Elimination Strategy Why You Might Be Paying Your Credit Card Bills All Wrong What Is FedNow? IRS Direct File Expands to Millions More Taxpayers 8 Free Federal and State Tax Filing Services for 2025 IRS Tax-Refund Checks Keep Getting Stolen in the Mail - WSJ Tax Software vs a Tax Professional: Which Should You Choose? Clark.com - When Should You Get an Accountant To Do Your Taxes? Why Did My Credit Score Drop? 4 Ways To Get Your Free Credit Score What Is a Good Credit Score? BBB-File a Complaint Clark.com resources Episode transcripts Community. Clark.com / Ask Clark Clark.com daily money newsletter Consumer Action Center Free Helpline: 636-492-5275 Learn more about your ad choices: megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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1:21 Speaker 02 It's my pleasure to welcome you here to the Clark Howard Show. You know, our mission is to serve you with advice and information that empowers you so you make better financial decisions in your life. So, many Americans are, well, maybe you're feeling upset about some of the spending decisions you made over the Christmas shopping season. Credit card bills have been coming staring you in the face in your email inbox or physical mail. And you're like, what am I gonna do? We're gonna talk about that. Also, something else is rolling in, and that's your tax documents. I got some info for you about this year
2:06 Speaker 02 is the easiest year ever, ever, for you to file your taxes for free. I'm gonna fill you in on all that. Okay, so I talked back in November about how a survey showed that nearly half of people is they were in the midst of Black Friday month, November, the generally the best month for Christmas bargains, that nearly half of people admitted they still owed credit card balances, this was in November, still owed credit card balances from the Christmas before. So here we are now in January, you got these bills coming in, and the question is, do
2:51 Speaker 02 you want to be part of the nearly half of people who are still going to be paying for Christmas from last month when we hit Christmas season in November of 25? And of course, the answer is no, you don't want to be doing it. And then you're looking at these bills you're opening up, and you're like, wow, wow, I just got to think about something else. But instead, I want you to face facts. I don't know how many credit cards you used for your Christmas shopping, but I actually want you, if you get e-statements and you have a printer, I want you to print out those bills.
3:34 Speaker 02 If you got paper statements, you got them. If you don't have a printer, I want you to take, this is so analog, I want you to take pen and paper and write down what you owe on each card and what the interest rate is on it. You've got bills that are hanging over you from last month. If you will do what I'm asking you to do, what you're starting to do is you're drawing your map. You know, if you've got a financial thing... And you don't have a map. You're never going to get there. You're just going to be able to turn away. But if you will write down all those balances. And the bills may not be just from Christmas.
4:19 Speaker 02 They could be from who knows what. But I want you to have a plan. I've got a simple one. There are other simple ones. But in the case of Christmas. If you look at what you owe from Christmas 24. And you see those bills. I want you to come up with a plan to pay them off over the next 10 months. Before you hit the shopping cycle for Christmas 25. 10 month cycle. Now, I may be depending on how much debt you have on those cards. What I'm asking you may be not realistic. But this is the map I want you to be thinking of. I want you to have a measurable period of time.
5:03 Speaker 02 The next 300 days. And in those 300 days. I want you to pay on those cards in the following way. Remember I said, I want you to write down what the interest rate is on each of the cards? And in Clark School, which is different maybe than some other things you'll hear. I want you to pay the minimums. If you're running balances on multiple cards. I want you to pay the minimums on cards with the lower interest rates. And throw every dollar you can at the card with the highest interest rate. I want you to get that one out. Regardless of what the balance is, I want you to get that one paid off.
5:45 Speaker 02 And then you move to the next highest interest rate when you got that one paid off. And you pay the minimums towards everything else, but throw every dollar you can at the one with the next highest rate and work them down one by one. But then this is where the real issue comes. When you add up what those balances are. Even forgetting the interest, divide that amount by 10. What are you going to have to pay per month? Not charging another dollar to any of those cards. And ignoring the interest for a minute. What would you have to pay just to tackle that principal over the next 10 months? Is that realistic? What do you change in how you spend money right now?
6:30 Speaker 02 So you can take my 10 payment challenge or 10 month challenge?
6:36 Speaker 02 Now, I prefer not 10 monthly payments. If you're a longtime listener or viewer, you know that interest is calculated on credit cards daily. So paying against cards on a regular schedule more frequently, at least every two weeks, you're sending in the payment to the card that has the highest interest rate. Every day you get money to them sooner is a day there's never another cent of interest on the amount that you pay off in that two-week cycle. Depending on how heavy your debt burden is, what causes all the rest, the 10-month challenge
7:21 Speaker 02 may not be realistic. So if that amount is too large, the point still is you come up with a cycle that will work for you. What is that monthly amount you can afford to throw at these that you stay methodical and stay on task that you're able to wipe out your credit card bills? Nobody ever got rich paying Visa or MasterCard 25% interest. Not a chance. I used to say 18, but now the average rate seems to be in the mid-20s. So I want you to face it. I want you to write it down, and I want you to resolve you're going to make those payments and tackle that debt.
8:04 Speaker 02 And if you have another suggestion, I'd love to hear it from you. Krista?
8:10 Speaker 03 Okay, we're going to start out with this question from Bruce in South Carolina. "My wife and four other friends from South Carolina and Atlanta made the trek to New Orleans to attend the Sugar Bowl. We had to abandon the city for safety after the terrorist attack and didn't have the opportunity to attend the game. We're out $2,000 for tickets and are curious if you have any suggestions or leverage for getting replacement compensation. I'm trying to investigate if there is a terrorism clause on my credit card that can get the charges reversed, but when they canceled the game and the FBI told us to stay off the street and that there were potentially other terrorists involved, we left town as quickly as we could." Understandable. "I know for a fact there are a lot of other Georgia fans like us that had to leave town
8:55 Speaker 03 in an abundance of caution."
8:57 Speaker 02 So first of all, that was such an ugly, tragic terrorist attack that you were in New Orleans for. Second, Ticketmaster, who I trash all the time, did offer, after the terrorist attack, and the game was rescheduled, the Sugar Bowl was rescheduled to the next night, I guess it was.
9:20 Speaker 03 Next afternoon, yep.
9:21 Speaker 02 Yeah, they were gonna play it for the next afternoon, offered a window that with the postponement, you could request a full refund. That postponement refund ended when the kickoff happened that following day. And I know all you were doing was trying to get out of town and be safe. Last thing you were thinking about was looking to see what the refund policy was. To my knowledge, there is no procedure of any kind that I'm aware of that at this point will get you back your $2,000.
9:59 Speaker 02 And it's just one of those horrific events where everybody is hurt financially, emotionally, and I feel so bad for the people that were killed, their families, and the people that were injured in the terrorist attack. As far as your money, I'm afraid it's gone. So many people left when you did, that tickets to the game were selling, I think, leading up to kickoff for like $10, $15, $20, $25, that people had spent so much money on because so many people were like, "I'm out of here."
10:39 Speaker 03 Sure. Okay. Several people wrote in to us about this. Fidelity holding deposits for an extraordinary amount of time. This one, Corey in New York, sent us an excerpt, and I'm just gonna read part of it from a chat with a rep at Fidelity. And the rep said, "Thank you for your patience. I see you have some funds that haven't been fully collected in your individual account." This is for an HSA, in Corey's case. "Those funds are not yet available for withdrawal, but they are available for purchases within Fidelity. The deposit..." From December 30th will be fully available for trades and withdrawals on 1/23.
11:12 Speaker 02 Okay, think about that. How long a period of time Fidelity is holding the money?
11:18 Speaker 03 Yep. You can view when the cash will be available on your balances page. Due to recent industry-wide issues, our timeline for cash clearing has increased for checks and EFE contribution, EFT contributions. Initiated by Fidelity. Typically, this is not the case and we appreciate your patience. For faster cash clearing, we recommend using either a wire or an EFT initiated at your bank. A wire will clear the same day and an EFT initiated at a bank will clear within one to three business days.
11:48 Speaker 02 Okay, so this first came on my radar, I think in October. Did I address it on the podcast?
11:55 Speaker 03 No, not that I remember.
11:57 Speaker 02 Because I know that I've addressed it, it may have been on television. So here's what's going on. Somehow Criminal Ring of Rings has figured out a procedure to deposit money into Fidelity, normal clearing, then take that money out. And then only later, the person whose bank account the money was stolen from realizes, hey, where's all my money? And then Fidelity gets left holding the bag. Because the EFT that was set up inside the person's Fidelity account was to an account of someone else, other than the person whose account it actually was.
12:42 Speaker 02 And then they steal the money. So let's think of it, this is very complicated, so I'm going to try to give simplest explanation I can. Let's say you establish an account under false ID.
12:54 Speaker 03 Okay.
12:56 Speaker 02 And you put a little bit of money in there. And then you go into somebody else's account. You steal money from it through an EFT that you arranged through Fidelity.
13:09 Speaker 02 That money goes into Fidelity, you wait for it to clear, and then you do a withdrawal of not your own money, but somebody else's money. So Fidelity has a weak link in their system, because I've not heard of any other big financial houses being affected this way. And this has been going on month after month after month. They're trying to batten the hatches and prevent the fraudsters from being able to steal money that Fidelity ends up having to make good to the real customer of whatever bank that EFT came out of.
13:51 Speaker 02 So the crook is the person who, under false ID or whatever, opens an account at Fidelity, and then bides their time and then steals money from someone else that then Fidelity has to make good. So what Fidelity is doing is they're allowing a really long time, basically it's three full banking weeks, for these accounts to be looked at as good, because they figure most people in three weeks are going to notice, three full weeks, that somebody stole money out of their account, not at Fidelity.
14:23 Speaker 03 It just seems like there needs to be a better way.
14:25 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah.
14:25 Speaker 03 It's crazy.
14:26 Speaker 02 Well, I mean, that's the problem in the United States. And, gosh, do I have to get into Fed now?
14:31 Speaker 03 No, no, no.
14:33 Speaker 02 There's a specific, all I'm going to say is there's a specific reason in the United States that we have these kind of frauds taking place that don't happen in any other developed country, and it's the fault of the giant banks in the United States.
14:47 Speaker 03 And you have done segments on that, so you could search.
14:49 Speaker 02 Yeah, so enough about that.
14:50 Speaker 03 Okay, you could search on Clark.com. Mike in Florida says, "My wife and I are 50 and 52, respectively. I currently have approximately $1 million in savings through the Florida retirement system."
15:00 Speaker 02 Fantastic.
15:01 Speaker 03 "As a retired law enforcement officer."
15:03 Speaker 02 Thank you for your service.
15:04 Speaker 03 Thank you. "I can withdraw funds without penalties. In my current new career, I save roughly 10% of my salary, split between a Roth IRA and an employer-sponsored 401K. My wife saves about 10% of her salary with Vanguard and is actively contributing to Our own retirement account. We're facing a housing dilemma. Our current home has about $350,000 in equity at a 3.5% mortgage, but we need a larger house. We have an adult daughter with disabilities and an adult son who is not yet financially independent. But the real problem is our aging parents who will need to live with us very soon. Thus, the need for more space in bedrooms. Here are the options we're considering. One, sell our current house, use the equity as a down payment for a larger home and finance the rest.
15:47 Speaker 03 That would bring us to our monthly limit in expenses, though. Two, withdraw $350,000 from my FRS account, the Florida Retirement Savings Account, take the tax hit and rent out our current house for additional income while purchasing the new home. Or three, sell our current house, use the $350,000 in equity as a down payment, also withdraw $350,000 from the retirement account and be mortgage-free. Which door do you choose, Clark Howard?
16:12 Speaker 02 This is really complicated. I'm trying to think if there's something. These are a lot of different, difficult options because the advantage of not selling your current home is your balance on the mortgage is pretty low. The remaining balance is only paying a 3.5% mortgage. Is that 3.5%?
16:35 Speaker 03 Correct.
16:36 Speaker 02 And today, mortgage rates are 7%. So, being able to keep that, if you're willing to be a landlord, and it's a manageable thing for you to be a landlord, is very appealing. That's why so many people are doing whatever they can to hold on to a home with a very low mortgage because that's not going to be repeated, that very low mortgage cycle. Then that brings up the problem that you're allowed to pull out the 350, that you are continuing to build up retirement money with what you're contributing at your new career, but you're then going to have to pay tax at your current tax rate on $350,000.
17:19 Speaker 02 And you can't borrow against the FRS because you're no longer working there.
17:26 Speaker 02 So you could do the third option, give up the potential income you would get from having that home with the very, very low mortgage balance versus the value and the very low interest rate. If you ask me, I vote for two or for three. I like the idea of you at this point in your life, being mortgage debt free and your 50s, you're able to have a house that works for your expanded family, including parents and adult children. And then you don't have to worry about sweating the payment. The first option does not work because it puts you under too much financial stress.
18:11 Speaker 02 But then you are going to have to pay taxes on the withdrawal of that money. No penalty, but you're going to have to pay taxes and you're going to have to prepare for that as well, how you're going to come up with the money for the taxes. So this does not have a perfect answer, but in my book, being a landlord and buying the other property, or just giving up that three and a half percent and moving on with the also the 350 withdrawn from the retirement account, those are the options that I prefer. But remember the taxes. And speaking of taxes, we're right at the point that the earliest filers are going to start filing.
18:53 Speaker 02 I want you to know some stuff about this tax season. It's very important for your wallet.
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21:15 Speaker 02 It's tax season kicking off now, and for people that are expecting a refund, you're excited it's tax season. For people like me who perma-oh-money...
21:29 Speaker 02 Well, this isn't such an exciting time. But for early filers, there's a few things I want you to be aware of. That having to pay for tax prep, if you have a pretty simple tax return, is absolutely not necessary this tax season. A year ago, I talked about a new IRS program that was in a pilot phase called Direct File. And with Direct File, you're able to write at IRS.gov. You set up an account. The IRS already has your W2s and 1099s and all that.
22:09 Speaker 02 And it's an ultra quick process to prepare and file your tax return for free. And a bunch of states participate in it as well. The important thing for you to know is that the four biggest states, which I guess are California, Texas, Florida, and New York, are all participants in Direct File. And there are a bunch of other states, accounting for about half the states in the country, that are part of Direct File. So you set up the account, you do your return, which is amazingly quick and easy. And then you submit.
22:50 Speaker 02 We were the last country in the developed world to offer something like what we call Direct File here. And it's something that a lot of Americans are afraid of because you don't trust the government. But the process is so transparent, I would tell you that I would not worry about that. Here's what I would worry about. Do not have the IRS send you a check for your refund. The number of these checks that are being swiped in the mail is so large. And then the time to get your refund reissued can be as long as more than a year.
23:32 Speaker 02 So you want to set up direct deposit of that refund. Absolutely do direct deposit. It's really easy to set up. It means the money will not be intercepted on its way from you doing the Direct File into your account. Now, if you don't like the idea of Direct File, the Free File program is still alive and well. Free file allows about 90 something percent of taxpayers to use free software from major tax preparation firms. And so if you go to IRS.gov, you'll see the direct file link, you'll see the free file
24:13 Speaker 02 link, and then you choose which software you want to use. Now, who's not eligible? People who make a lot of money. So the top 10% of income earners in the country approximately are not eligible. But who shouldn't be using this stuff anyway? Anybody who owns his or her own business? People who make quite a bit of money anyway should be looking at hiring a tax professional, either a CPA who does tax, or an enrolled agent. It would be a bad decision if you've got complicated finances for you to do your return yourself electronically.
24:57 Speaker 02 That's when I really like for you to have professional tax help. Again, you own your own business? You're an entrepreneurial type? You're usually used to fending for yourself, doing things yourself. The complications of the tax code and the benefits available to you as a business owner make it a better idea for you to have that professional help. And if you've got a complicated family, you've got a lot of money coming in, whatever, again, you want that professional help, not a simple software package, my advice. And please, take to heart what I said about no check coming in the mail for you from the
25:42 Speaker 02 IRS. The criminals are too good at breaking into those boxes and stealing the mail. So, we were in New York between Christmas and New Year's, and I'm walking down a street in Manhattan, and there's one of those boxes that's not the one you put mail in, but the one that the postal carriers put mail in to be picked up later, busted wide open. Sitting there with the door open... All the mail out of it, gone. We don't have a secure system to deal with the criminal element that stealing the mail at various processes of its collection, sorting, and
26:26 Speaker 02 being sent out for delivery. And that's why sending any kind of money through the mail is not safe anymore.
26:35 Speaker 03 Okay. Beth in Oregon says, "I did a lame blunder. I had logged into a credit card account to transfer to a 0% interest rate for 12 months. I accidentally clicked 'request an increase.' I don't need an increase, and I still don't know how I did it. Anyway, I received in the mail a letter stating I was denied the increase, blah, blah, blah, and it didn't mean anything because, again, I accidentally clicked on the request. Until today, I got an email from Credit Karma that says there was a change in my score. I opened it expecting good news because of the transfer of some credit card balances to another card, but to my horror, my credit had dropped 29 points. I am devastated. I worked very hard for an excellent credit score, and just like that, poof, all because of the credit
27:20 Speaker 03 increase. By the way, the card has $15,000 available. My question is, is there anything I can do to get it taken off, and what are my options?"
27:28 Speaker 02 Okay, so Beth, don't worry too much. The application for credit has a temporary effect on how you're doing. And if your credit score, you've worked hard, you've got a decent credit score, and you're not applying for any new credit over the next couple of months, you'll see that score heal again. Also, it was a Credit Karma score?
27:51 Speaker 03 Yes.
27:52 Speaker 02 Credit Karma scores are approximations of your credit, and it's not the same as a real FICO score. In fact, some people refer to those as FAICO scores that you see from Credit Karma. Many of the credit cards you have, just don't click on an application for anything, have a thing there where you can see your actual FICO score for free. Your FICO score may not have been impacted by as large an amount as 29 points. So I would not worry too much. I think you're going to be okay fairly quickly from that errant credit application.
28:31 Speaker 03 Mike in Nebraska says, "My wife received a Christmas gift purchased at a local Walmart. She returned the gift to the store with a receipt and asked the customer service person to not return the money to the original purchaser's credit card, but rather return the balance as either cash or a gift card."
28:46 Speaker 02 Oh, boy, I know where this is going.
28:48 Speaker 03 Yeah, so just kind of summarizing here, the cashier accidentally put it back on the original form of payment. Two managers came to a customer service and both the customer service person told them what had happened. They both said that there was nothing they could do.
29:01 Speaker 02 So now, the person who was generous enough to give your wife the gift knows she didn't like it and they have the money back. Wow.
29:12 Speaker 03 Mm-hmm. And they're wondering if there's anything they could do. And he says, "I feel like if I took $25 of product and left the store, Walmart could prosecute me for stealing, but they took her gift and returned the money to someone else. I feel like that's stealing as well. What can I do to resolve this matter? Hopefully, this can help other listeners."
29:30 Speaker 02 Okay, so there's, with Walmart's bureaucracy, there's no way through normal channels that they're going to make this right. And the individual who spent the money originally has it back, so their gift to your wife ended up being no cost. Your wife's out of the money and the gift. So what I would do is do a complaint about Walmart with the Better Business Bureau. It'll then go to Walmart headquarters where people deal with Better Business Bureau complaints. Your complaint is so simple, you didn't say, didn't say how much.
30:11 Speaker 03 $25.
30:12 Speaker 02 No, I thought 25 was that just the example. Was it a $25 gift?
30:17 Speaker 03 That's what it seems like they're saying.
30:18 Speaker 02 Okay.
30:19 Speaker 03 It was 25.
30:19 Speaker 02 I mean Walmart, when you file the complaint and let's say it is $25, Walmart will give your wife some kind of gift card or something like that, which is what she wanted in the first place. They'll just absorb it. But through regular channels, they're not going to do anything. And it's just a fact that they are a very busy organization. They deal with so many unusual situations and they're incapable of dealing with unusual circumstances. Remember the thing when I ordered a bike from Walmart.com? I got the bike and then they never charged me for it. And I kept trying to get Walmart to charge me for the bike.
31:01 Speaker 02 And they had no procedure after their mistake to charge me for the bike. And do you remember what I did with that?
31:08 Speaker 03 Did you donate it?
31:09 Speaker 02 I donated the money.
31:10 Speaker 03 Mm hmm.
31:11 Speaker 02 Because I just didn't feel right having money I wasn't supposed to have. Let me hear back. If you file the Better Business Bureau complaint, keep the story short with the BBB. It'll be read also by the Walmart people who deal with the BBB complaints. I expect you'll get a satisfactory resolution.
31:31 Speaker 03 Chad in Utah says, "We've enjoyed shopping at Aldi and saving 40% on groceries, per your great advice. However, we recently moved from Florida to Utah, where sadly there are no Aldis. What am I to do now to keep up our grocery bill in check? People say an alternative here is WinCo. Do you know about them? And do you have any knowledge or guesses as to when Aldi might expand to Utah? Thanks, Clark, for all you do. You've saved us a lot of money."
31:57 Speaker 02 So somebody with Aldi hates the mountain states. Because Aldi is not in most of the mountain states. And there's nothing I've seen about when they're going to start coming into the mountain states. So WinCo Foods that your new neighbors have been telling you about is a fantastic store. It is employee owned, I think in total. And the stores are really, really different than an Aldi. They're big stores, even bigger than the typical supermarket. The prices are very good in a WinCo.
32:39 Speaker 02 I would say they are completely different than Aldi, but I'd say that when you're looking to save money, you won't save as much as you will at Aldi, but you'll save a lot more than you would at a traditional supermarket in Utah. So I think you can follow your neighbor's advice, go try Wencow Foods, and I bet you'll be really, really happy. And someday Aldi will stop dissing the mountain states and will come in and open stores. They're opening, what, 800 new stores in 25 or some number like that. I want to thank you so much for joining us today on the podcast. I hope that you've heard something, learned something
33:24 Speaker 02 that's useful to you in your life. If you watch the YouTube show, I hope you enjoy it. However it is you gather information from us, whether it's our newsletters, our websites, Clark.com, Clarkdeals.com, you got great advice from our Team Clark Consumer Action Center, which of course is free to get. Whatever it is, it's all about your empowerment with knowledge so that you save more, spend less, and avoid getting ripped off. Have a great rest of your day.
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