Pod Insights The Clark Howard Podcast 01.12.26 A Plan For Credit Card Debt / Online Grocery Prices About this episode So many of us struggle with credit card debt, which can be especially acute after the holidays. Clark shares some eye-opening stats, and a 3 step approach to getting debt under control. Also, does ordering groceries online save you money, or rip you off? Clark updates the dynamic pricing angle and online options. Credit Card Debt: Segment 1 Ask Clark: Segment 2 Online Grocery Shopping: Segment 3 Ask Clark: Segment 4 Mentioned on the show: Credit Card Debt Consolidation: 3 Paths To Consider, 2 To Avoid Clark Howard's Credit Card Debt Elimination Strategy How Do You Pay off Credit Card Debt? 6 Things To Know Before Contacting the National Foundation for Credit Counseling How the Capital One-Discover Merger Impacts This Big Clark Credit Card Rule Why You Need To Lock Your Brokerage Account Today Protect Your Brokerage Accounts From ACATS Transfer Fraud 5 Best Grocery Delivery Services Travel Insurance Checklist: 5 Types of Coverage To Consider What Should You Do if Your Insurance Claim Is Denied? Clark.com resources: Episode transcripts Community. Clark.com / Ask Clark Clark.com daily money newsletter Consumer Action Center Free Helpline: 636-492-5275 Learn more about your ad choices: megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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0:30 Speaker 01 As wish lists grow, you know where to go. Head to Ulta Beauty. We have gifts they'll love from brands like Tato One and Rare Beauty by Selena Gomez. Shop beauty faves to give or keep from Shark Beauty, Sol de Janeiro, and more. Not sure what they want? You can't go wrong with Baumann, Clinique, or Redken. And don't forget to put yourself on the list. Book a salon moment or add a little more sparkle to your season. Shop holiday in store or at Ulta.com. Ulta Beauty.
1:02 Speaker 02 It's my pleasure to welcome you to The Clark Howard Show. You know, our mission is to serve you with advice and information that empowers you to make better financial decisions in your life. And one decision many people are not thrilled about, or one circumstance that people are not thrilled about, is how much debt you have in your life right now. And there's some new stats I'm going to share with you. And this is all about not feeling overwhelmed, but developing a plan to get slowly out of that debt.
1:44 Speaker 02 And also, ordering your groceries online, is that a money saver or a money ripoff? We're going to talk about that. So, Americans did it. We did it over Christmas. We now, in January, have hit record levels of debt in the United States. Not a record to be thrilled about or proud of. It's interesting because over the last eight years, we've been through cycles where we had hit record levels of debt back in 2019.
2:24 Speaker 02 And then for the first phase of COVID, debt levels collapsed. Consumer debt collapsed in the United States, and people paid down debt at unprecedented levels because particularly during the lockdown phase back in 20, people didn't have places or ways to spend their money. And instead, they took money they had and put it towards debt. Well, then we've had a lot of things happen since then. We've had a terrible inflationary cycle for six years. A lot of people's incomes did not keep up with that, and people closed the gap in many cases with credit of various types.
3:09 Speaker 02 And then, over the last couple of years, we've had a really ugly new form of debt that has grown, unfortunately, in popularity in the United States. Pay in for. It's offered like everywhere you go. You know, you don't have to pay right now. Just four easy payments that then a third of people haven't been able to make and mess up their credit. How are you going to be able to get this under control? So debt comes from different flavors. There are people who end up in debt simply because they lost a job, they got sick, they don't have enough money for life's basics. And that may be somewhere, based on what I've
3:54 Speaker 02 read, somewhere around 20% of people that are dealing with debt that has grown, and you're just trying to service that debt, that there's maybe 20% of people with the debt that it is all about just trying to survive. For most people, though, it has been lifestyle creep. It's been things that you've just gotten in the habit of charging it or tapping to pay when you're out somewhere or thinking, should I get that? Should I not? Then you see the pay in for sign and you do it. And so, first assignment for you. First assignment. And this is the hardest bridge for people to cross, believe it or not.
4:38 Speaker 02 Harder than paying the debt back.
4:42 Speaker 02 Is facing the debt you have. You actually gotta sit there and write down all the debt you have. Not what payments you have to make in a month. No, the debt. How much do you owe for this? How much do you owe for that? How much do you owe for this other thing? And you make that list. And then on it, you put the balance you owe, who you owe it to, and what the interest rate is of each of those debts. Then we move to hard stuff. Because first you gotta face what you owe. And this is the hard lifestyle change. Because we're so accustomed to just, I mean,
5:24 Speaker 02 with tap to pay, you don't feel it. With plastic, you don't feel it. It feels infinite. And so, we don't think enough about the decisions we make. So, it starts with this really hard step, which is if you know you're running debt, having to pay interest on credit cards. Average interest rate now in the 30s apparently. Used to be about 25. Depends on the card mix you have. That's a lot of percent interest that you're having to pay. And all you're doing is servicing the debt. And the debt can keep growing. Are you ready? Are you ready to stop using credit?
6:09 Speaker 02 If all you can do is service the debt, and it's not so you can put food on the table. It's things you just buy, you just spend on. If you stop using the credit, that is the second key thing to you getting things under control. And then that brings to the third step, which is you already know what you owe to who. Because that was the first thing I had to do. You know what the interest rates are. And then what do you do? You pay the minimums on all the debt you have outstanding, except for the one with the highest interest rate. You throw as much at it as you possibly can.
6:51 Speaker 02 You can even look at doing something I've talked about before. I've talked about it actually for 30 years. Is the advantage, because credit card interest is calculated daily, to make payments more than once a month against your card. Some people now paying, if they get paid weekly, they're paying some towards the credit cards every week. Or if you're paid twice a month, you make two payments a month. Because every day earlier that you get money from the credit card company, that's interest that will never be charged on whatever you paid. And the math shows that even if you're a minimum balance payer, pay the minimum they
7:33 Speaker 02 require, that if you stop using your cards, pay that minimum, and then as your balance starts to drop and they lower the minimum, you don't lower what you paid. And if you pay it every two weeks, half that monthly minimum you start at every two weeks, you will get out of debt at one-fourth the time than if you play it their way at the bank, whose job it is to keep you on the hook to them with high interest forever. Do you want that? Do you want that? Nobody ever got rich paying Visa or MasterCard 25%.
8:16 Speaker 02 I want money in your pocket. I don't want it in the stockholders' pockets at the banks. I want you to have the money. So remember, I'm simplifying this, and there are lots of different ways to get it done. But remember the three steps. First, you gotta write down everybody you owe money to. How much you owe them and what the interest rate is. Second, you gotta stop using credit if you're running balances where you're paying interest every single month. And third, you come up with a plan to pay these debts. If you are overwhelmed, you can't see your way out of it.
9:00 Speaker 02 We have links at Clark.com for you to reach a legitimate credit counselor that can help you with budgeting and if necessary, help you with payment plans with people you owe money to. But this is not something you ignore. It's something you attack straight on.
9:20 Speaker 03 All right. Dan in Ohio wrote in to Clark with this. I've had a credit card for more than 10 years and 100% of the time I pay it in full within 48 hours of receiving the bill. But on the statement that just came out, there was an interest charge of $28.39. My previous balance of $248 showed as paid, so I called the credit card company and asked why the interest charge. They put me on a brief hold and came back and said that I was right and there should be no interest. So she took it all off and asked if I needed anything else and then hung up. No apologies, no why or how it happened. Please warn others.
9:57 Speaker 02 So Krista, in this case, I want you to name who the credit card company is.
10:02 Speaker 03 This was Discover.
10:03 Speaker 02 All right. So what happened with Discover is Discover was taken over by Capital One. Anytime there's a bank marriage, it turns out to have hiccups. And I don't know if this is going to be a pattern. We see with people who have Discover cards that the technology causes errors in the merging of the operations of Discover and Capital One. And I really, I saw, as you were reading, I saw that it was Discover. And I was thinking, you know, I should really point out. Exactly what Dan said, but with a special emphasis for you, if you have a Discover
10:43 Speaker 02 card, to look at your statements closely in case there is a hiccup, one that I've not heard, but I know patterns and bank mergers lead to hiccups. And so especially important to check those statements, just like you did, Dan.
11:00 Speaker 03 And then a lot of us have unusually high statements this month because of the holidays, and so it's easier to miss stuff for sure. Okay, Desi in Oregon says, "Thank you for all the fabulous guidance and advice. I've listened for years and have used your tips for a number of decisions, including making frugal decisions that helped me pay off my house several years ago and invest that money. I'm 63 years old. I unexpectedly lost my job two years ago."
11:25 Speaker 02 Well, I'm thrilled you paid off your house, and I'm really sorry you lost your job at 61.
11:30 Speaker 03 I invest with Vanguard and use their personal advisor service. I wasn't ready and didn't feel secure enough to retire, even though Vanguard says I'll be fine. So I created a side business where I work 20 hours a week and make plenty to live on.
11:43 Speaker 02 Good for you.
11:44 Speaker 03 Here's my question. I know.
11:46 Speaker 02 Door closed, window open.
11:47 Speaker 03 Exactly. Here's my question. I expect to receive a lump sum payment of $20,000 this year. The only debt I have is a HELOC of $47,000 at 6 1/4%. It's from my credit union, of course. I took it in December of 2022 at 15 years. My monthly payment's $467. I have the option of moving to a lower interest rate with no penalty if the rates come down. I have $3,000 in an emergency fund. I own my home and pay my credit cards in full every month. I really hate debt. What are your thoughts on what to do with the money? I've been advised to fund my emergency fund to $10,000 and pay the leftover $12,000 to the debt. I could also draw out an additional money from my IRA to pay off the HELOC completely,
12:31 Speaker 03 but probably not in one year, as that would move my tax bracket up. I think I will always work a bit, as I love my business."
12:38 Speaker 02 So in circumstances that we hear about, you're in a really good spot here. $3,000 in your emergency fund, that's not enough. At the same time, you said HELOC. I think it's a home equity loan.
12:54 Speaker 03 Yeah, because it's 15 years.
12:55 Speaker 02 Yeah, not a HELOC. HELOC's a floating interest rate. A home equity loan is a fixed rate. Six and a quarter for a home equity loan is actually a very attractive rate, but it's much more than you're going to earn on your money in the savings account. Whoever advised you to take of the money, the lump sum, to take it and basically split it, half to build up your emergency fund, where if you're shopping around, you'll earn about 3 point something percent on that. Half of what you're paying on the home equity loan. But then take the other half of it and pay it towards the balance. I actually like that 50/50 idea,
13:40 Speaker 02 even though you're losing some in interest every month between what you're earning on your savings and what you're having to pay on the home equity loan. I like that.
13:51 Speaker 03 Okay, and then John in Oregon says, Clark, you talked recently about the ACATS locks on brokerage accounts. Thanks for letting us know about that. One question, though, you didn't mention whether this is something we need to do for an employer-sponsored retirement plan like a 401K. And I know you did a video over the holiday about this because so many people wrote in that they couldn't get this done, especially with Schwab. And then they had difficulty with Fidelity and Vanguard, we heard from different people.
14:18 Speaker 02 Really? With Fidelity? Fidelity's simple.
14:20 Speaker 03 I know, but just somebody wrote in with that, so I thought I'd mention it. Maybe go over it again.
14:24 Speaker 02 ACATS is an automated system that came about because there was a scandal involving brokerage houses that when you were at a brokerage house, you decided, you know, I don't want to be there anymore. I want to move my money to this other investment house. And the brokerages were stalling on purpose. They were not cooperating with allowing your assets out to another firm. So the industry had a spotlight put on it and developed an automated system, ACATS, to move money from the brokerage you no longer want to be at to the new one.
15:05 Speaker 02 Well, as something that was a good thing, you now having more power to move your money where you want, an automated system has also become a potential risk to you because criminals impersonate you and try to steal your money through the ACATS platform. And that's why I talked about how Fidelity has a simple toggle on your Fidelity Investments account where you lock automatic transfers through ACATS. And Fidelity, if you've got that lock in place, they have to go through extra steps with you to make sure you are who you say you are and you really meant to move your money from one place to another.
15:48 Speaker 02 And since Fidelity, Vanguard and Schwab are so huge, I talked about how with Vanguard, it's a manual process. Schwab doesn't have one yet. And it's exposing you to risk you shouldn't be exposed to. Vanguard, you have to talk to them and say, hey, I want you to put this in place. And depending on who you get at customer no service, they know what you're talking about or they don't. And Schwab, get this together. You should have a procedure. In Vanguard and Schwab, you should both do a simple system where your customers can put this lock in place to prevent the theft of money you may have worked a long time
16:30 Speaker 02 or a lifetime to save and invest for your financial security, for your future, for your retirement. Which brings to the question you asked about 401Ks. So 401K providers, many also use the ACATS system.
16:46 Speaker 02 And other than Fidelity, I don't know others that have a simple lock you can put in place. This is something the industry always, industries are a little behind what the criminals are up to. And so the people coming in and stealing money through ACATS are something the industry's reacting to instead of upfront protecting people from that happening. And so again, I want to congratulate Fidelity and for many Fidelity 401k plans, apparently you can simply put in an ACATS lock. And this needs to be standard industry procedure and practice to protect your money.
17:30 Speaker 02 Coming up ahead, we're going to talk about groceries and is it a good thing or a bad thing to buy your groceries online? Is it a money saver or is it going to cost you? I want to tell you my perspective on it.
17:44 Speaker 00 Life is all about making decisions. Sometimes you make questionable ones, like buying a new TV that's too big for the wall because the electronics store employee was a little too good at their job. Then sometimes you make great ones, like protecting your home and auto with Progressive. You get customized coverage options so you can be sure you have the right coverage. Get your quote today at progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company affiliates and other insurers, not available in all states.
18:15 Speaker 01 As wish lists grow, you know where to go. Head to Ulta Beauty. We have gifts they'll love from brands like Tato One and Rare Beauty by Selena Gomez. Shop beauty faves to give or keep from Shark Beauty, Sol de Janeiro, and more. Not sure what they want? You can't go wrong with Baumann, Clinique, or Redken. And don't forget to put yourself on the list. Book a salon moment or add a little more sparkle to your season. Shop holiday in store or at Ulta.com. Ulta Beauty.
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19:15 Speaker 04 The holidays are coming, but the Lincoln Wish List Sales Event is already here. And with exceptional offers on select Lincoln vehicles, you might just cross the perfect gift off your own list. You know, the kind that doesn't need wrapping? Consider this a little reminder to be good to yourself this time of year. Visit your local Lincoln dealer or go to Lincoln.com to learn more.
19:43 Speaker 05 Your sausage McMuffin with egg didn't change. Your receipt did. The sausage McMuffin with egg extra value meal includes a hash brown and a small coffee for just $5. Only at McDonald's for a limited time.
19:55 Speaker 06 Price and participation may vary. Promotion pricing may be lower than meal pricing.
19:59 Speaker 02 A lot to talk about with buying groceries online. First things first, you may have heard all the stuff with Instacart. Maybe you haven't. Instacart has been going down the same rabbit hole as Delta Airlines has, experimenting with individualized pricing, charging some people more money than others or less than others, some people a lot more than others, based on what AI says that individual is willing to pay. Now, Delta has gone very mum on this after there was a lot of negative coverage of the fact that Delta was doing discriminatory individual pricing.
20:43 Speaker 02 And Instacart was doing it secretly. Instacart was charging different people different prices for the same grocery order.
20:55 Speaker 02 Same grocery items being ordered from the same supermarket. People who the Instacart AI thought were willing to pay more were paying 20% more for groceries than people that Instacart thought were price sensitive. After a wave of negative coverage, Instacart discontinued the dynamic AI-powered pricing. And Instacart said that it was all misinformation.
21:27 Speaker 02 Yeah, okay. Just know that this is going to be a challenge for us as more and more businesses try to ferret out who's price sensitive, who's not, and charge individualized pricing. That if the pattern that the AI tools a company's using, say, you're really somebody who's cheap, you're going to be offered cheaper prices. If you're somebody who they think doesn't care as much about what the price of something is, then they're going to charge you more money, period. It's something that's still unclear how this is all going to play out.
22:07 Speaker 02 I'm sure there will be states that pass laws banning individualized pricing, where each individual is charged a different thing. But it's going to take a while for this all to play out, which brings to the other thing. When you order groceries through Instacart or their competitors, you're paying usually a higher price than what items cost in the store. And so then, obviously, you're paying a convenience charge that, in theory, could actually not cost you as much extra as you might imagine because you don't impulse buy the same way when you're not in person.
22:49 Speaker 02 But any of these third parties like Instacart face a challenge from Walmart and Amazon. Amazon is now doing same-day deliveries in a huge number of metro markets in the United States. And this is different than Amazon's initial thing they were doing where the groceries were coming from whole paycheck. Now, these are regular groceries. They can be organics as well, but they're not priced like in a whole paycheck. They're priced to be competitive in the market. This is a response to the enormous success of Walmart Plus grocery delivery, which has been a huge
23:33 Speaker 02 success and moved market share to Walmart for groceries and other items in the store as Walmart now serves two different kinds of customers. People that come in person and people who just want convenience delivery of food and non-food items. If you order as a Walmart Plus member, you order as an Amazon Prime member, in either case, the groceries are not being marked up from what they would be in a physical location. And so you have the double advantage. You have the convenience. You're not paying more for the items and
24:15 Speaker 02 you don't do the impulse purchasing. So in that case, I think it's an absolute great win. Where might it not be? What's been the big complaint about Walmart Plus grocery delivery? The quality of the produce, the fruits, vegetables, produce that's delivered. You probably on your own going into a store are more particular with the produce you would get than a store picker is going to be who is going around. If you've been in a Walmart, you see the Walmart Plus shoppers, the Walmart employees, they're having to fill these orders as quick as they can and they're not able to sit there and look apple
24:59 Speaker 02 to apple to apple and look at this banana and that banana and figure out which one looks most like you want it. And Krista, you've been ordering from Amazon.
25:10 Speaker 02 The groceries. How have produce items been?
25:14 Speaker 03 They've been great. I mean, I'm, I had issues like a while ago when I used to order groceries, but I've had no problems recently. So, and I don't order a ton. It does save me money because I don't do the impulse buys that I do when I go to the grocery store. So I don't do it every time, but I order probably once every two weeks, I'll order like my staples, produce staples are included in that. So.
25:37 Speaker 02 So far, so good.
25:38 Speaker 03 Yeah.
25:39 Speaker 02 And you've never compared the prices. I'm putting words in your mouth. I don't think you've compared Walmart plus groceries to Amazon.
25:47 Speaker 03 No.
25:48 Speaker 02 Historically Walmart has been about 20% cheaper than traditional supermarkets. I've not seen any price surveying yet of the new Amazon grocery, same day grocery delivery, to know whether or not the prices are competitive with Walmart. Maybe that's something someone should do. But I think a lot of people who are industry analysts for the supermarket industry, look at Walmart plus shoppers as different than Amazon shoppers. And I'm not sure they are now that Walmart plus attracts a much higher income customer.
26:28 Speaker 03 Hmm. Yeah, we should do that. We should figure that. You're a Walmart plus member. You could like get an equal, like the same cart and see what the difference is.
26:37 Speaker 02 Okay.
26:37 Speaker 03 All right. Well, let's go to questions. Dan in New Jersey wrote in with this one. Just this month, strikes have occurred at Telluride Ski Resort in Colorado as well as the Mastiff in Quebec.
26:48 Speaker 02 I don't know about that.
26:50 Speaker 03 Forcing the resorts to close. Fortunately, I haven't booked a trip to these resorts, but I was wondering, is there travel insurance that would cover this risk?
26:58 Speaker 02 To my knowledge, and I've done a lot of reading, I don't know this resort in Quebec, but I've done a lot of reading on the strike going on at Telluride. And people have just been out the money. Actually, people have said their trip insurance did not cover the strike. And so I'm not aware of any travel insurance that covers work actions, work stoppages, like what's happened at Telluride. It's been hard for everybody in the town and in the area of Telluride.
27:34 Speaker 02 From this strike and it's gotten into a real tussle with the owner being an absentee owner who has not been willing to talk to the media about it or talk to the strikers.
27:50 Speaker 03 Elaine in Maryland says, hi Clark, I don't think I have a question because I already paid the fee, but here's what happened and I want your followers to know it's out there. I bought a decorative tray on Etsy for my son for his birthday. I paid for the tray and shipping and I received the tray a few days later. Yay. A couple of weeks later, December 27th, I got a bill from UPS. At first I thought it was junk mail, but they had all the details of my purchase. It was the tray. I didn't realize it was coming from Canada and I had already paid the shipping. Turns out it was a tariff fee, $16. I had already paid $15 for shipping, so basically getting the tray to my son cost me almost as much as the tray. Lesson learned, no more ordering from outside the US for now anyway.
28:34 Speaker 02 So this is the hard part with this is you don't know often where goods are coming from. And so you get that bonus gift you weren't looking for and that's the tariff bill from the carrier, you know, in this case UPS. It's a nightmare for UPS, FedEx, any other carrier to have to be in the business, being the bad guy, collecting the tariffs and you don't know when that's going to happen on an item or not. So source of origin, if you can figure it out, has become so important now because the tariffs against a number of countries are extremely high.
29:17 Speaker 03 And Danielle in Oklahoma wrote this one. Clark, I've been following your advice for years. I found you when I had no choice but to save money because I literally couldn't afford to live. Over the years, I've been incredibly blessed with making my way up the ladder and now having a very good paying career. Saving money is still a hobby of mine and no matter how much I have, I'll always look for the best deal. A good friend of mine has had a very rough few years and her sweet child is now on hospice. Additionally, other family members of hers have had some serious medical issues. Thanks to everything I've learned from you, I have more than enough of a nest egg. Several times, insurance has initially rejected a medication and I've told her,
30:00 Speaker 03 "Just put the $1,700 on my credit card. If insurance pays, pay me back. If not, I can't take it with me." Thank you for teaching me so much that I can help my friend. I'd like you to consider changing your sign-off to spend less, save more, have the ability to help others out, and never, ever let anyone rip you off.
30:21 Speaker 02 First of all, you are a generous soul. No doubt that you take your hard-earned money, that you have worked so hard to live on less than what you make, and save, and showing your generosity with big-time expenses for a friend is just incredible. I love the example of the kindness and charitable nature that you have. I want to say something about the insurance company rejections. And this is something we covered twice last year. And that is how often nobody ever appeals an insurance company rejection.
31:04 Speaker 02 And that overwhelmingly, when people appeal a rejection, they win. Not every time, but overwhelmingly. The insurance companies are playing the odds, though, knowing that most people never appeal. But your kindness is a warm, wonderful example to all of us.
31:24 Speaker 03 And also, congratulations on turning things around.
31:28 Speaker 02 Yeah, how about that?
31:30 Speaker 03 Over the years, it's inspiring.
31:32 Speaker 02 And you also overcame what's known as MPC, the marginal propensity to consume, which is as people's income rises in the United States, worse than, more stark than anywhere else on earth that I know of. Our spending rises directly in tandem with the rise in our income. You managed to fight that. And as your income went up, you accumulated savings, assets, and security, which is culturally something we're not wired to do in the United States. But you doing that made it possible for you to be the generous soul you have been
32:16 Speaker 02 for your friend and their child in hospice. Thank you for your inspiration. And thank you so much for joining us on today's podcast, which is all about you being empowered with knowledge, like looking at our newsletters at Clark.com and Clarkdeals.com that are free to subscribe to at Clark.com/newsletters or newsletter. Either one will get you where you sign up. Our newsletters are free. If you find them not useful, you can unsubscribe very easily. If you find them great, tell other people.
32:54 Speaker 02 It's all about what we do in so many different ways to serve you with advice and information that empowers you so you can save more, spend less, and avoid getting ripped off. And we'll see you on Wednesday.
33:14 Speaker 00 Life is all about making decisions. Sometimes you make questionable ones, like buying a new TV that's too big for the wall because the electronics store employee was a little too good at their job. Then sometimes you make great ones, like protecting your home and auto with Progressive. You get customized coverage options so you can be sure you have the right coverage. Get your quote today at progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company affiliates and other insurers, not available in all states.
33:43 Speaker 01 As wish lists grow, you know where to go. Head to Ulta Beauty. We have gifts they'll love from brands like Tato One and Rare Beauty by Selena Gomez. Shop beauty faves to give or keep from Shark Beauty, Sol de Janeiro, and more. Not sure what they want? You can't go wrong with Balmain, Clinique, or Redken. And don't forget to put yourself on the list. Book a salon moment or add a little more sparkle to your season. Shop holiday in store or at Ulta.com. Ulta Beauty.
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