Why Teachers Are Having a Tough Time

This is the first episode in a series we are doing with iCivics, who invited us to their National Forum for Civic Learning Week. Today we share the many conversations we had with civics and social studies teachers from across the country, and we explore the results from a nationwide survey on what they're going through right now. And, finally, what could be done to help them? To learn more about iCivics and their myriad resources for teachers and students, visit them at https://ed.icivics.org. To read about the survey conducted by iCivics, click here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This podcast is supported by Anthropic, the public benefit corporation behind Claude. Everyone's got a hard question about AI. Anthropic was built to surface those questions and share what it finds along the way, because there's hope in hard questions. Ask yours at claude.ai/spotify and keep thinking. That's claude.ai/spotify.

• 0:27Speaker 01

  Visible puts the ultimate wireless hack in the palm of your hand. With unlimited 5G wireless data and hotspot, designed to keep you connected, powered by Verizon's 5G network. And, no contract holding you back. Plans start at $25 a month, or get the premium Visible Plus Pro Plan and save $10 on your first month when you use promo code HACK. Make the switch at visible.com. Terms apply. See visible.com for details.

• 0:58Speaker 02

  Afternoon glare totally ruined my watch party for the big game. That's when my buddy recommended blinds.com.

• 1:04Hannah McCarthy?

  With custom window treatments made to fit your style, space, and budget, customers who shop at blinds.com experienced overwhelming satisfaction. Side effects may include a fuller, deeper night's sleep and the sudden urge to host the watch party again. Blinds.com isn't a medication, but it can improve how you feel about your home. Shop Black Friday all month long at blinds.com. Don't miss huge deals dropping every week.

• 1:30Speaker 04

  It's that time of year, millions of students across the country will soon head back to school. But in Texas, the topics that students will learn in their social studies classes are under hot debate.

• 1:41Speaker 01

  Republicans claim in a new report that some teachers are abusing their role in trying to indoctrinate kids.

• 1:46Nick Capodice?

  In fact, Lieutenant Governor Mark Robinson recently formed a task force to look into that. But Democrats say it's really about fear mongering.

• 1:53Speaker 06

  Parents have a God-given right and role in the raising of their children. When they send their kids to the public schools, they expect the schools to deliver a quality education to their children in order to prepare them for success in the future. Unfortunately, government schools have abused this trust and have been indoctrinating children with far-left lies and poisoning their minds with woke gender ideology.

• 2:17Speaker 04

  Hello, everyone. Nick here. Today is the first part in a three-part series we are

• 2:24Nick Capodice?

  Doing in collaboration with iCivics. For those of you who don't know iCivics, they're a nonpartisan organization dedicated to advancing civic learning, but they are so much more. For the last few years, they have invited Hannah and me to their National Forum for Civic Learning Week. The most recent one, this March in Philadelphia, was tremendous. We met a ton of teachers. We are civics. Oh, my gosh, I used your podcasts in my class with my undergrad. Jill Lepore spoke.

• 2:55Hannah McCarthy?

  Thanks, all of you, for being here and for the work you do that is just of magnificent importance. I want to begin by telling you a story about apple pie.

• 3:05Nick Capodice?

  And we have made episodes about these forums before, sort of a "the kids are all right" state of civics education in the US. But you know, things are not all right. Yes, some things are, but it would be inaccurate for me to not admit that some folks, maybe most folks, when it comes to civics, politics, discourse, et cetera, some folks are having a tough time. And that's what this series is about. Why are we having such a tough time? So today in part one, we wanted to share with you all what civics and social studies teachers are going through right now, 2026, and I hope some of the ways we could improve

• 3:50Nick Capodice?

  their lives and their work. Stick around. You're listening to Civics 101. I'm Nick Capodice.

• 3:59Hannah McCarthy?

  I'm Hannah McCarthy.

• 4:01Nick Capodice?

  And today, we are talking about what Hannah and I learned at the Civic Learning Week National Forum, specifically what civics and social studies teachers are going through right now, 2026. Where do you want to start on this one?

• 4:13Hannah McCarthy?

  Let's not bury the lead. I think we should start with opening remarks.

• 4:17Nick Capodice?

  Sure.

• 4:19Hannah McCarthy?

  So Nick and I are sitting in this massive hotel ballroom in Philadelphia. We are the only radio people in the room and we are surrounded by hundreds of teachers, heads of civic organizations, and students. And Louise Dubay gets on the stage. She is the CEO of iCivics.

• 4:38Speaker 07

  Welcome, welcome to Philadelphia, the heart of all things civics.

• 4:43Hannah McCarthy?

  And after welcoming everyone, Louise starts to talk about a survey.

• 4:48Speaker 07

  About a couple of months ago, we sent you a survey to ask you what it's like to teach civics right now in this country. And about 2,200 of you answered the call.

• 5:00Nick Capodice?

  Yeah, so this survey is the reason I wanted to make this episode.

• 5:04Speaker 07

  About 35% of you reported changing or removing lessons because of the climate in their school or community. Almost 60% worried about experiencing backlash. 53% said even teaching basic civic concepts are difficult.

• 5:26Nick Capodice?

  And the most difficult, to me at least, result from this survey was the answer to this question. Have you considered leaving the profession, leaving teaching, due to the divisive environment?

• 5:38Hannah McCarthy?

  And how many said yes to that?

• 5:41Nick Capodice?

  21%. So we met up with Louise afterwards and we asked her what these results meant to her.

• 5:50Speaker 07

  What was interesting about the response is that it validates a lot of other research to the effect that it is a very hard time to be a civics educator in this country. And I think that's a consequence of the polarization in our communities. And not only polarization, even in a community that's predominantly has one point of view or the other, there is a vocal either majority or minority that has found the schools to be a place where these discussions are to be had or not had. The educators have told us that about 60% of them are afraid of backlash.

• 6:32Speaker 07

  What's interesting about that is that it is actually worse in states where they have passed legislation prohibiting or shaping the kind of instruction that can happen. In those states, it should be, in fact, clearer, but the teachers are actually feeling worse.

• 6:50Hannah McCarthy?

  So states where these so-called divisive concepts laws are on the books, laws designed to regulate exactly what teachers can and cannot teach in their classrooms, teachers in those states fear backlash even more.

• 7:05Nick Capodice?

  They do.

• 7:06Speaker 07

  It sets up an environment where I think teachers are feeling like they are not quite clear, where is that line? What can I say? What can't I say? And who among parents will interpret these laws differently? Right? The other thing that was truly raised my eyebrows had to do with the lack of support from the community or parents. So today, in our conversation with the state chiefs, they said how important it is to have parent support for history and civics education. That's a critical component of our being able to do this work. In our survey, we found that that is, in fact, not the case, so that educators are quite worried whether parents support them.

• 7:51Hannah McCarthy?

  So how much of the fear of backlash is tied to parent support versus lack of support from the school administration?

• 7:58Nick Capodice?

  Yeah, the respondents overwhelmingly said they feel prepared to teach civics, they feel supported by their administration, but less than half said they are supported by parents. And 39% of that half say that that support is neutral.

• 8:14Hannah McCarthy?

  As in, even of those who feel quote-unquote "supported," 39% of them don't feel strong, warm support, right?

• 8:25Nick Capodice?

  Right.

• 8:26Hannah McCarthy?

  So I want to go back to that pretty staggering number, 21% of civics and social studies teachers saying they have considered leaving the profession. Did Louise have any sense of what might be causing that?

• 8:39Speaker 07

  Well, I don't know that I can shed much more light, except that this is a trend, right? Ever since COVID, I think you've seen a mass exodus of longtime educators. But then after that, the divisions that COVID really exacerbated in the communities, some of them have gone away and have, you know, some of the civic fabric has come together in some communities. But I think ultimately, when teachers tell us that even teaching basic civics is considered controversial, it's not surprising that people say, okay, you know what? Done this for this many years. I've had enough. And there are, and I feel terrible about that, right? Because educators should be safe in teaching about our country, always.

• 9:25Hannah McCarthy?

  So what can we do? How can, you know, we, the people, help the people who are teaching our kids?

• 9:32Nick Capodice?

  I have a few thoughts to share about this, and a lot of them come from teachers themselves that we talked to in Philly, which we're going to get back to right after a quick break.

• 9:45Nick Capodice?

  Haven't you out there ever Googled your own name, like actually done it? You'll find your address, your phone number, maybe even that police report from the time you went to see Rain Man in the movie theater, but you were underage? Maybe that one's just me. But here's the thing. There are companies called data brokers, whose entire business model is collecting your personal information and selling it to advertisers, to strangers, sometimes to people running scams. And once your data's out there, it just keeps circulating. That is where Incogni comes in. Incogni contacts data brokers on your behalf and sends them removal requests over and over, so your info doesn't just pop right back up. You set it

• 10:27Nick Capodice?

  up once, and they keep working in the background. You can even track the progress on a dashboard. And for our listeners, we have an exclusive 60% off an annual Incogni plan. Just go to incogni.com/civics or use the code CIVICS at checkout. There's a link in the episode description. Remember, they can't harm you if they can't find you.

• 10:52Nick Capodice?

  Holiday season is coming and I don't think I have to tell you this might be a tough one because things are expensive in the fall of 2026. Everyone I know is looking for ways to make a little extra money prowling around the side hustle subreddits. But I will say, if you're looking to sell something to launch a store fast before the holiday rush, Shopify is the one stop shop platform for making a professional looking store without touching a line of code. You can sell anything and you can sell it anywhere that people shop online. You can have it done in minutes and you can launch before Black Friday, that time of year when more people are already shopping and ready to buy. So if you're ready to launch

• 11:37Nick Capodice?

  your business before Black Friday, go to Shopify.com/civics to start your free trial. That's Shopify.com/civics. Just go to Shopify.com/civics today to hear your first.

• 11:56Hannah McCarthy?

  The older I get, the more I am looking for truly lovable closet staples that I know I will reach for just as often next year as I do right now. I want a closet that doesn't need constant updates or replacements, just high quality clothes that last, especially the kind with tags that say 100%. As in 100% Mongolian cashmere, 100% mulberry silk, 100% organic cotton, just like the Quince Fisherman Cropped Cardi and I am wearing right this very second. This sweater has kept its shape, color, and softness for years now. I reach for it every single fall, every time I want a warm and elevated look. Quince gives

• 12:37Hannah McCarthy?

  you the quality you expect from a luxury brand without the luxury price tag. Find the fall pieces you will reach for most at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks you where you heard about them, let them know it was Civics 101. It's a great way to support the show.

• 13:08Speaker 01

  Visible puts the ultimate wireless hack in the palm of your hand. With unlimited 5G wireless data and hotspot designed to keep you connected. Powered by Verizon's 5G network. And no contract holding you back. Plans start at $25 a month. Or get the premium Visible Plus Pro Plan and save $10 on your first month when you use promo code HACK. Make the switch at visible.com. Terms apply. See visible.com for details.

• 13:36Nick Capodice?

  We're back. You're listening to Civics 101 from NHPR, and we're talking about teachers with teachers.

• 13:44Hannah McCarthy?

  Nick and I walked around with a microphone for a few hours, asking anyone who was willing to share what it's like in civics classrooms in 2026. What they wish everyone knew and what would help them in this moment.

• 13:58Nick Capodice?

  And we wanted to share their thoughts with you. So here we go.

• 14:02Speaker 04

  And you can use my information, my name, my voice. Yeah, if it sounds better putting me in auto-tune, please do so. Like, if you need a little John me up, that's fine.

• 14:12Hannah McCarthy?

  Have you had to change anything about the way that you approach teaching in the past five or 10 years?

• 14:18Speaker 04

  Yes. So I've had to, I've definitely have had to change the way that I approach teaching. I mean, yes, just alone in terms of strategies, but I would also say content-wise, too. I'm absolutely switching things up. I have to be really thoughtful about the word choices that I use because some language has become politicized when 10, 15 years ago wasn't considered political to use certain phrases. Now it has, so I have to be really thoughtful about that. And I walk through topics pretty carefully. I feel like sometimes I'm in a minefield.

• 14:48Nick Capodice?

  I think I've had to change a few things. I've had to consider more what the community, what people will think, or what they might think, or how they could perceive what I'm doing in my classroom. So I've had, I've had to think more about it. I don't necessarily think that's 100% a bad thing, though, because it made me think more.

• 15:10Speaker 06

  About it, maybe come up with more unique ways to approach things rather than just throw at a topic and debate it, but maybe have them take some time to research what different people think about it and not just pit them against each other, maybe come up with some solutions in the middle sometimes. Yes, I have one time been called down to the principal's office because of an incident where a parent was not happy with something I was doing, but it was more of a misunderstanding that went home and my principal was very supportive of me. I can tell you what happened.

• 15:50Speaker 06

  So it was right after the election of 2016 and Donald Trump was elected and right after that we were studying the Electoral College. And this was a point where Kanye West, before he said a lot of the things that he has said since then, was saying I was going to run for president and right then he was just a musical artist and whatever. So I said, okay, if Kanye, what states would Kanye have to win to flip in order to win the presidency? Well, that got home as that I was already talking about getting Donald Trump out of

• 16:29Speaker 06

  office and wanting Kanye to be president and that he was just elected and I'm already talking about him leaving, whereas I just picked, I heard some kids talking about Kanye West. So I said, well, what states would he have to flip in order to win? So that's where it's a communication thing and I was brought in and we had a discussion and the principal let the mom talk and let her have her say and it was a good result. It was a good result. But yeah, so I have been on the hot seat before.

• 17:05Speaker 06

  In all fairness, I don't know that I get immediate external pressure from any one person. Definitely not my school administration, they're really wonderful to work with and have been nothing but supportive in truth. But one of the things that I have noticed is I think I'm just being extra precautious for fear of pushback if nothing else, right? It feels like educators are seeing in the media stories of people at school board meetings and social media blowing up over teacher A or teacher B.

• 17:40Speaker 06

  You know, teaching some lesson or taking something out of context. And so I'm putting maybe those handcuffs on myself in a way without having the immediate pushback yet because I'm afraid of the pushback in all fairness. My school district, even though I'm in a blue area in a red state, I really have autonomy to kind of say and do what I want, but I think it's a, I'll be honest, I think it's a personal thing. I think I've just become so conscious because of the current climate to make sure that I'm not stepping on somebody's toes. Cause even when I look at

• 18:19Speaker 06

  the teacher I was, I hate to say this, pre-COVID and post-COVID, they're a little different. I am more comfortable, but I'm also a little bit more reserved in how I deliver the content. I think a part of it was I was just bold and young and didn't care it in. And now it's just like, oh, okay. You gotta kind of pay attention because this is, this is our reality.

• 18:48Speaker 06

  It's kind of like asking to be, uh, teach nine 11. So we don't start school until right around Labor Day, a little bit after Labor Day. So it's like, boy, let's, let's start, welcome back students. We're going to talk about this traumatic event that happened when I was a senior in high school. Like they need context to understand that. So I'll end up teaching it later on in the year. So it's tough when, you know, we haven't gotten to that in our curriculum and the kids want to talk about these current events that are happening around the world. And it's, they don't have the background just yet. So they need the basement before we, you know, put the roof on, as my dad would say. But it's a lot. And then, listen, that might be on a Tuesday, on a Wednesday, something else could change and they have total, like, they're so curious. I get, I love.

• 19:31Speaker 04

  That about them, but it's like, oof, that curiosity is is not derailing the curriculum, but it's forcing me to take more time to talk about it. For example, with the recent crisis in Iran, kids are, you know, not only am I trying to teach them where Iran is, but it's also like, okay, well, they need a little primer on the history, how he got to this point, and then we can start taking questions about executive powers and congressional authority. So it's a lot to unpack, and that's on top of the curriculum that we're already, you know, doing and teaching. So it's a lot. It's, I would say it's exhausting. It's good work, but it is exhausting.

• 20:07Hannah McCarthy?

  So that's really our question is have you had to change anything over the past however many years?

• 20:13Speaker 06

  Yeah, that's interesting. Um, you know, in a lot of ways, no, I will say that, which is, which is fascinating. But, you know, it's, you know, emotionally speaking, like, we have children that come from very diverse backgrounds, and they have families that came here for various reasons, and they came here in various ways. So that has certainly affected us, um, you know, with the administration and policies on immigration and ICE, and we, we lost, we've seemed to have lost families and children. They would have been enrolling in our school. This year, we lost a lot of kids. They didn't come back.

• 20:50Speaker 06

  But the way that I teach, you know, I try to be as unbiased as I can at certain times. And then I can also feel like I can use emotion in the classroom and be genuine and just say, hey, this is my bias. So it certainly made it harder, the political climate, but it really hasn't changed as much as I would think.

• 21:13Speaker 07

  We all go through education preparation programs. Some may do alternative routes. Um, of those of us that love our job and love what we do, number one, we're not going to jeopardize our livelihood. I have too many student loans to jeopardize my career. Like, there's just nothing else that I can do or want to do but teach students. Um, number two, I'm just the type of educator, and I think most of us are going to

• 21:38Hannah McCarthy?

  Treat these children how we want somebody to treat our kids. And so, we wouldn't want anybody indoctrinating our kids, and we're not going to do that to someone else's.

• 21:48Hannah McCarthy?

  What would you want parents to know about what it's like in your classroom?

• 21:53Nick Capodice?

  I think they should know that I make every effort, every day, to give kids all sides of an issue, if we're talking about it. I go out of my way to make sure they understand what people's perspectives are, because I think that's what's interesting. I like them to understand both sides. I am not going to try to indoctrinate them.

• 22:20Nick Capodice?

  I've tried indoctrinate them to remember to bring their iPads and pencils, and that hasn't happened.

• 22:27Nick Capodice?

  Every day, I think about that. I think about making sure they see both sides of the issue. And when we're doing discussions and debates, and that's what I see most teachers doing. And I must say, for the most part, parents are very, very supportive of what I'm doing. When they come to back to school night, I tell them about what we're doing, and they're like, "Oh, I wish I, you know, could have done that when I was in school." So, for the most part, parents are very, very supportive, but it only takes one.

• 23:00Hannah McCarthy?

  What's one thing that you wish that parents knew about what it's like in your space classroom? That I wish they would come by and say hello more. I've never had a bad interaction with a parent my entire teaching life, ever. Only positive ones. And, you know, they're busy, they got a lot of stuff going on. But, it's in our community, parents care very deeply, but there's just not a lot of involvement because of challenges that they face. So, I don't know, I just invite them to come in and hang out and watch. And I could ask them about their experience, because I'm sure they have a lot more to say about things like racism than me.

• 23:37Hannah McCarthy?

  Well, like, in all fairness, guys, so, and I don't post it on my bio or anything.

• 23:41Speaker 01

  But like I was disappointed by the governor of the state board of ed. And the only teacher there. And right off the bat, we're having a great conversation about, you know, graduation and what it's diplomas and how many credits students need. And I'm walking in going, wait a minute. What about how many classes a teacher can teach? And what about making sure the teachers have the professional learning to be able to teach the courses and in small schools that might be really challenging to recruit those teachers? And in rural areas, how are we going to get a teacher over there to teach X? Like, that's very fundamental into what the work is. And so how do you? How do we keep teachers in the classroom when you have all of these other layers on top that make it really challenging to do your job?

• 24:26Speaker 01

  Unfortunately, the current model that we're using for education is not one that, in terms of the amount of days we have and the calendar and how this is all built, doesn't meet the need of the current teacher and the current students. So it isn't as much of a pay raise, although that's always lovely for folks. And more vacation days, right? All of these types of things and better healthcare, please, yes. But I think the system needs some major shifts and it hasn't caught up to the kid and the teacher that exists in 2026. Oh, and by the way, you know, political climate that is questioning public education. And sorry. Can you fix that?

• 25:12Nick Capodice?

  Last thing before we go. After asking all these teachers about what they're going through and what they need, I asked Louise, what is really driving this difficulty?

• 25:24Speaker 07

  There is a sense, not a sense, but a fact that public trust in institution in general, and mostly towards your neighbor, has deteriorated significantly.

• 25:37Speaker 07

  However, we've gotten here, clearly, we have a lack of trust. Having said that, I think K-12 is one of the last standing major scaled institutions to have at least respect at the local level. So you can ask folks about whether they believe in public schooling, or whether they think schools are any good, and they will answer fairly negative answers, not so much. However, you ask them about their local school, "Oh, I love my local school. I love this. I love Mrs. so-and-so and so-and-so." It is important to note that and not to give up on K-12 education.

• 26:20Hannah McCarthy?

  Did Louise say anything about the future of civics education? What needs to be done to make it better?

• 26:26Nick Capodice?

  Well, of course, she said to listen to the teachers' needs, to ask them what would help them right now. That's why they do these surveys. But also, that civic learning has to be pluralistic. It has to have diverse perspectives.

• 26:41Speaker 07

  So we strongly believe that a democracy cannot be fixed by having one set of folks beat up on the other and win. Right? So it depends what your operating model is, but for us, that's not our operating model. Our operating model is what is in research from More in Common and many other research organizations, where there is actually a lot of common agreement about how to solve our common problems. And the problem comes when you think that the other guy is just pure bad. Right? And what we want to do is to ensure that students are not told what to think. We need to have a classroom in which there is a range of ideas, a range of primary sources,

• 27:26Speaker 07

  and students are given the skills to determine what truth is and to find what they believe, ultimately. It's not our job to tell them what they should believe. It's our job to present a pluralism in action, which is, means a diverse set of viewpoints on particular issues, and teach them the skills of how they might make something out of that, like for themselves, for their lives.

• 27:56Nick Capodice?

  And also civic learning has to engage in reflective patriotism.

• 28:02Hannah McCarthy?

  You know, I heard that expression used a few times at this forum. What is meant by reflective patriotism?

• 28:11Speaker 07

  I think it's a real problem when patriotism is identified with one party or another. Right? And right now, that is the way it is. Right? So it's coded red and it's a problem because I think that all of us, if we're going to teach about civics, we're going to teach about the American self governance system. And that's a process that involves citizens getting involved in how we run our country and how we solve our common problems. And that is a patriotic act. And I think we want to be very clear about that.

• 28:49Speaker 07

  And I think what we want to do is to have a reflective patriotism, which is one in which we take a balanced view of our countries. We look at what we've done well and we look at what the places where we need to learn and grow. And that is why we have a more perfect union. That is what the founders had in mind. They never had in mind that we would just declare victory and say, we're all great. They had in mind that we will continue to improve and do better. And in order to do that, we need to talk to each other. We need to learn from each other and we need to solve our problems. I think part of the distrust that people are feeling about this country is that we don't actually solve the problems. Right? There are problems on the table.

• 29:34Speaker 07

  Very little legislative action. All branches are not acting equally. Never, having said that, there's a lot of activity at the state level. So that is where local and state levels is where we are much more optimistic that there will be a rebuild of trust so we can solve our problems.

• 30:03Nick Capodice?

  Just a few things to work on, all of us. This episode is made by me, Nick Capodice, with you, Hannah McCarthy, in collaboration with the fine folks at iCivics. Our staff includes producers Marina Henke and Dana Cataldo, as well as our executive producer, Rebecca Lavoy. Music in this episode from Blue Dot Sessions, Epidemic Sound, and the always pluralistic Chris Zabriski. Civics 101 is a production of NHPR, New Hampshire Public Radio.

• 30:36Speaker 01

  Looking for a horror podcast that isn't murder to get through? Then check out another effing horror podcast. Our show, where paranormal and true crime stories collide with unfiltered commentary. I'm Monique Sanchez. And I'm Amy Trainor. Each week, Monique and I share one paranormal story. And one true crime case. From unexplained phenomena to true tales of murder and mayhem, we find the stories you haven't heard before and research them obsessively to bring them to life. Follow or watch another effing horror podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We just moved into our new house, and I didn't realize just how close we were to the neighbors. That's when my friend told me about blinds.com.

• 31:21Speaker 02

  Blinds.com isn't a medication, but it can improve how you feel about your home. Customers who shop at blinds.com experience excellent customer service, from consultation to installation. Side effects include increased privacy and better sleep. Talk to your partner today and see if blinds.com is right for you. Shop Black Friday all month long at blinds.com. Don't miss huge deals dropping every week. When it comes to my policy, Farmers gives it to me straight, so there's no surprises. It's your coverage. You should never be confused. You hear that? An insurance provider with a conscience. We're a choir, but yes, we have that, too. Straightforward coverage you can literally understand. That's what you get when. You have Farmers.

• 32:06Speaker 02

  Learn more at farmers.com. Underwritten by Farmers Truck or Fire Insurance Exchanges or Affiliates. Products not available in every state.