Who's running the country? (Part 2)

Meet your president's Cabinet! Who was appointed, by what margin, and a look at the backgrounds of the people filling these critical roles. In other words, who is running our country? Let's find out. This is the second part of a two-part episode. CLICK HERE: Visit our website to see all of our episodes, donate to the podcast, sign up for our newsletter, get free educational materials, and more! To see Civics 101 in book form, check out A User's Guide to Democracy: How America Works by Hannah McCarthy and Nick Capodice, featuring illustrations by Tom Toro. Check out our other weekly NHPR podcast, Outside/In - we think you'll love it! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:07Hannah McCarthy?

  You're listening to Civics 101. I'm Hannah McCarthy.

• 0:09Nick Capodice?

  I'm Nick Capodice.

• 0:11Hannah McCarthy?

  And this listener is part two of Who's Running the Government. I'm gonna be talking about nine of the so far 18 confirmed presidential appointee leaders in our nation's executive branch, but if you want to know who the other nine are and a little bit more about what this process is all about, I recommend you go back and listen to part one, because we are just gonna hit the ground running on this one.

• 0:32Nick Capodice?

  If nothing else, listen to part one to hear Hannah reveal not one, but two significant pieces of personal history trivia about me, to which I did not give my approval vote. Hannah?

• 0:43Hannah McCarthy?

  It was worth it, though. The people need to know, Nick.

• 0:46Nick Capodice?

  And now they do.

• 0:54Nick Capodice?

  All right. So in addition to those little gems, Hannah, in part number one, you told me that the vote margins, as in the number of yays and nays a nominee got when the Senate confirmed them, those margins were gonna get a little slimmer.

• 1:08Hannah McCarthy?

  That's right. We are going through the list from most yays to the fewest. The second batch of President Donald Trump's appointees got more pushback, more questions about their experience, their politics, their personal conduct, and we are kicking it off with our new Environmental Protection Agency Administrator, the head of that independent executive agency, not department, Lee Zeldin. He got 50, 60 yays and 42 nays.

• 1:35Speaker 02

  Our mission is simple but essential: to protect human health and the environment. We must do everything in our power to harness the greatness of American innovation with the greatness of American conservation and environmental stewardship.

• 1:51Speaker 02

  We must ensure we are protecting the environment while also protecting our economy.

• 1:56Nick Capodice?

  Lee Zeldin. Hannah, I do not know that name at all.

• 2:00Hannah McCarthy?

  All right, so Zeldin was in the New York State Senate and then in the US House of Reps, and he served there until 2023. He was also a major Trump defender when it came to the impeachments. Zeldin is also an officer of the US Army Reserve. And one big thing with Zeldin when it came to his confirmation hearing was experience or lack thereof. So the EPA, the Environmental Protection Agency, it is supposed to make sure that we have clean air and water, that we protect the environment, protect human health, re-environmental concerns, and clean up toxic sites. Zeldin doesn't have much experience in environmental regulation.

• 2:40Nick Capodice?

  But given what I know about Trump's environmental policy plans, Zeldin is going to be in charge of rolling a lot of regulation back. Am I right?

• 2:48Hannah McCarthy?

  Yeah, the biggest of those is a very new rule that limits greenhouse gas emissions from tailpipes. Trump wants that one gone. Now, that one's tricky because auto manufacturers have already invested tons of money in things like electric vehicle development, so we're going to see how that goes. Zeldin is also apparently consulting with Trump about a really major principle that kind of like underlies a lot of our climate policy here in the United States. We don't know a lot about that yet, but we probably will soon.

• 3:21Hannah McCarthy?

  All right, Scott Turner. Fifty-five yeas, forty-four nays. Turner is our new Housing and Urban Development Secretary.

• 3:28Speaker 03

  HUD's mission is to create strong and sustainable communities and support quality, affordable housing, serving the most vulnerable of our nation. Yet, as we sit here, we have a housing crisis in our country. We have the American people and families that are struggling every day. We have a homelessness crisis in our country.

• 3:47Nick Capodice?

  Also, Hannah, I am ashamed to say here, I was unaware of Scott Turner until very recently.

• 3:53Hannah McCarthy?

  Well, he's not super well-known in the world of federal politics, or he wasn't until now. Turner is a former pro football player. He was a Texas state rep. He was a motivational speaker as well, and he spent two years as the executive director of the White House Opportunity and Revitalization Council under Trump during his first term.

• 4:11Nick Capodice?

  Well, that sounds like it could be adjacent to his new job.

• 4:14Hannah McCarthy?

  Yeah, at the time Turner was overseeing a program that found ways to build affordable housing and improve economic development in impoverished areas in the US. And his new job is very broadly to make housing affordable in America. HUD does this through programs, rules, and policies.

• 4:30Nick Capodice?

  So we're talking stuff like housing assistance, public housing, mortgage relief, that sort of stuff?

• 4:36Hannah McCarthy?

  That sort of stuff, yep. Shelters, transitional housing, all of the things that people live in but often find a hard time finding, securing, and affording. I read through some statements from various housing assistance organizations, you know, what their opinion of Turner is. Right now, it looks like their plan is to be vigilant and see how this works out because they don't have a lot of information yet about how it will work out.

• 5:01Hannah McCarthy?

  And let's move on to Small Business Administration Administrator Kelly Loeffler, who got the job with 52 yeas and 46 nays.

• 5:10Speaker 04

  From managing inflation and capital to hiring a skilled workforce and weathering uncertainty, job creators in the last four years have faced rising demands to comply with new rules often drafted with unknown cost and consequence. This regulatory complexity crushes growth, picks winners and losers, and denies opportunity to those who dare to dream of a better future.

• 5:34Nick Capodice?

  I feel like I'm batting a thousand in this episode, Hannah, but I honestly don't know what that administration does.

• 5:41Hannah McCarthy?

  The SBA is not a department, it's an agency. Its whole thing is, as the name suggests, small business. The administrator oversees administering loans to people starting and growing small businesses, advising and supporting entrepreneurs and protecting their interests. Loeffler is a former co-owner of the WNBA Team Atlanta Dream. She has worked for a few financial services companies and served a brief period, just two years, as a senator representing Georgia. She promises that she will help, quote, "restore the small business economy."

• 6:18Hannah McCarthy?

  All right, up next, we got former Wall Street executive Howard Lutnick with just 51 yays and 45 nays. He is the new Commerce Secretary.

• 6:30Speaker 05

  I saw the strength of the American spirit during President Trump's campaign, and it fueled my desire to serve our nation. We need healthy businesses, small, medium, and large, to hire our great American workers to drive our economy. I will dedicate myself to making our government more responsive, working to ensure Americans have the greatest opportunity for success.

• 6:50Nick Capodice?

  All right, now, Lutnick, I have heard of. He has been a financial advisor to Donald Trump for a little bit, right?

• 6:57Hannah McCarthy?

  Yeah, for the last year. He also led Trump's transition team. So the Department of Commerce is an interesting one, because it's not the Treasury, right? It's about money, but not in the same way. It analyzes the economy, tries to make sure the US is competitive, it promotes trade. The Department also oversees the Census and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

• 7:20Nick Capodice?

  Wait, NOAA? Like, the weather people?

• 7:24Hannah McCarthy?

  Yeah, yeah, they monitor weather, they monitor storms, which might not seem relevant, but what they also do is support fisheries and marine commerce. So you gotta know what the weather is if you're gonna do that.

• 7:34Nick Capodice?

  And I guess with the Census, you gotta know how many people there are to really understand how the economy is going.

• 7:41Hannah McCarthy?

  I would imagine it certainly helps. I don't know a lot about these things.

• 7:45Nick Capodice?

  All right, I know we already talked about the Treasury and tariffs when it comes to the Treasury Secretary, but I have to assume that the Commerce Secretary, they have something to do with that as well?

• 7:55Hannah McCarthy?

  You assume correctly, my friend. Lutnick will be overseeing tariffs, determining tariff rates, and working to control certain exports. Like, there's a plan to restrict tech exports to China. Now, Lutnick is a very wealthy investor with a huge portfolio, so there is some concern that he's gonna run into some conflicts of interest as someone who oversees American economic interests.

• 8:22Nick Capodice?

  As in, will his interests affect how he conducts America's business?

• 8:28Hannah McCarthy?

  That's the question. And frankly, it is a question that would be hard to answer definitively, even if the answer is yes.

• 8:40Hannah McCarthy?

  Next up, Nick, we have Pam Bondi. 54 yeas, 46 nays.

• 8:45Speaker 06

  My overriding objective will be to return the Department of Justice to its core mission of keeping Americans safe and vigorously prosecuting criminals. And that includes getting back to basics: gangs, drugs, terrorists, cartels, our border, and our foreign adversaries.

• 9:09Hannah McCarthy?

  And I think you know Pam Bondi's marching orders.

• 9:12Nick Capodice?

  I certainly do, Hannah. Attorney General, we're talking about the law.

• 9:16Hannah McCarthy?

  We are talking law. So first and foremost, if you have not yet listened to our producer Christina Phillips' episode on all the president's lawyers, I implore you, do so now. She covers the twists and turns of legal representation and the executive branch, and says everything that I don't have time to say here, and says it better than I could. And Nick, what is the Attorney General?

• 9:38Nick Capodice?

  The Attorney General, or the AG, is the head of the Justice Department. They are the chief law enforcement officer of the US. They give advice to the president and the other executive department heads, but they represent the United States, ostensibly. And, on the rarest of occasions, they might appear before the Supreme Court.

• 9:58Hannah McCarthy?

  That about covers it. So Bondi was Florida's first-ever woman Attorney General, and was planning to run again, actually, until Trump picked her for his second choice nominee for USAG.

• 10:11Nick Capodice?

  Yeah, this is after his first-choice, Matt Gaetz, withdrew amidst a major scandal.

• 10:16Hannah McCarthy?

  That is correct. So Bondi has told the Justice Department that their "shameful era" is going to come to an end. She has condemned what she calls "insubordination" in the Justice Department, and calls for "zealous advocacy" of the Trump administration's policies. A lot of people have expressed concerns that her loyalties are more to Trump than they are to the US.

• 10:44Hannah McCarthy?

  All right, moving on, Russell T. Vogt, new director of the Office of Management and Budget. He got the job with 53 yays, 47 nays.

• 10:55Speaker 07

  We have to use taxpayer dollars wisely because inflation, driven by irresponsible federal spending, taxes Americans twice.

• 11:04Nick Capodice?

  All right, the OMB. Hannah, Hannah, this is the one I was waiting for because it seems like all of a sudden, everybody cares about the OMB.

• 11:14Hannah McCarthy?

  It sure does, doesn't it? Nick, what is the OMB?

• 11:18Nick Capodice?

  The OMB is within the White House itself. So we've been talking about some departments and some independent agencies, and this is its own thing. So basically, this office helps the president do what the president wants to do. It develops the budget for doing what the president wants to do. It figures out what happens when the money runs out. It handles contracting and IT for the federal government. It sends around drafts of executive orders to figure out what the other agencies think about them. The OMB is the thing that makes it all happen.

• 11:53Hannah McCarthy?

  And Russell T. Vogt has been there before. Vogt ran it during Trump's first administration. Before that, he worked as a lobbyist for the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank, and for a couple of Republican caucuses. And then after Trump's first term, Vogt founded the Center for Renewing America, and he was an important architect of Project 2025.

• 12:15Nick Capodice?

  Project 2025, by the way, being shorthand for a bunch of policy recommendations for dismantling what they call the quote-unquote "deep state", making the executive more powerful, and slashing government spending, among other things.

• 12:30Hannah McCarthy?

  Yeah, the quote from Vogt's proposed budget in this whole project is dismantling the woke and weaponized bureaucracy. Vogt has expressed that he does not believe the congressional power of the purse is constitutional. He has a strong vision of dismantling the government, you know, the government as it is right now. Senate Democrats did just about everything they could think of to delay his confirmation, but he did get through.

• 13:00Hannah McCarthy?

  All right, Nick, three more for you. And these last three appointees share something in common. They are the only three who did not score unanimous Republican consent.

• 13:13Nick Capodice?

  Wow. All right, let's hear it.

• 13:15Hannah McCarthy?

  Oh, you'll hear it. But we gotta take a quick break.

• 13:17Nick Capodice?

  Okay, fine. But before that break, listeners, Hannah and I have a whole, comprehensive breakdown of the executive branch departments and what they do in our book, A User's Guide to Democracy: How America Works.

• 13:30Hannah McCarthy?

  I, in fact, reread parts of our book to remind myself of what these departments do while I was writing this, which felt like past Hannah giving present Hannah a little lesson, you know, it was nice.

• 13:40Nick Capodice?

  You can find that book wherever books are sold.

• 13:49Nick Capodice?

  There is nothing quite like having stuff in your closet that you love and you know you can count on for any occasion, except maybe giving someone else that feeling. And this holiday season, Quince is where I'm finding those pieces. Quince makes elevated, everyday essentials using premium materials like Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, and it is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories that cut out the middleman, so you get luxury-quality pieces without the luxury price tag. As this lovely fall is winding to a close and we slouch into winter, I wish more than anything someone had gifted me a yak wool hoodie.

• 14:34Nick Capodice?

  I'm dead serious. It's good enough for the yak. I mean, it works really well for the yak, right? It would work for me. And it looks hot. So give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers, or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. That available in Canada and the UK as well. And last thing, when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Civics 101. It's the best way to support the show. All right.

• 15:09Nick Capodice?

  Have any of you out there ever Googled your own name? Like, actually done it? You'll find your address, your phone number, maybe even that police report from the time you went to see Rain Man in the movie theater, but you were underage? Maybe that one's just me. But here's the thing. There are companies called data brokers, whose entire business model is collecting your personal information and selling it to advertisers, to strangers, sometimes to people running scams. And once your data's out there, it just keeps circulating. That is where Incogni comes in. Incogni contacts data brokers on your behalf and sends them removal requests over and over, so your info doesn't just pop right back up. You set it up once, and they keep working in the background.

• 15:54Nick Capodice?

  You can even track the progress on a dashboard. And for our listeners, we have an exclusive 60% off an annual Incogni plan. Just go to incogni.com/civics, or use the code civics at checkout. There's a link in the episode description. Remember, they can't harm you if they can't find you.

• 16:15Hannah McCarthy?

  We're back. This is part two of Who Is Running the Government? We're looking at all of President Donald Trump's confirmed executive branch leader appointees. Now, I have three more appointees to cover, all of whom failed to get unanimous Republican Senator approval. The first two are tied. Each got 52 yays, 48 nays. First, Tulsi Gabbard, Director of National Security.

• 16:38Speaker 08

  And my day one priorities will be to assess the global threat environment, identify where gaps in our intelligence exist, integrate intelligence elements, increase information sharing, and ensure that unbiased, apolitical, objective collection and analysis to support the President and policymakers' decision-making occur.

• 16:59Nick Capodice?

  Wait, hang on. Did Tulsi Gabbard get a no from a Republican?

• 17:03Hannah McCarthy?

  She did. Mitch McConnell, the Senator from Kentucky. So, the National Security Agency, the NSA, is a part of the US intelligence community. Think of it as cybersecurity for the United States. It also gathers intelligence from other countries' communication systems, weapon systems, et cetera. It codes our stuff and decodes other nations' stuff. Then it gives that information to our government and military. It also protects our weapons and security systems.

• 17:33Nick Capodice?

  Right now, I know that Tulsi Gabbard is a Republican now, but she used to be a Democrat, did she not?

• 17:39Hannah McCarthy?

  She did. This is Gabbard's story. Gabbard was Hawaii's youngest state rep from 2002 to 2004. She became the first American Samoan Congresswoman. She served from 2013 to 2021, and during this whole period, she's a Democrat. She was even the vice chair of the Democratic National Committee until she resigned to endorse Bernie Sanders in 2016 for his presidential campaign. Then she joined the Republican Party in 2024. Gabbard is a lieutenant colonel in the US Army Reserve. She has served in the Hawaiian National Guard and the Army Military Police. She has made statements considered sympathetic to Vladimir Putin and to Syria's Assad regime. And all of this adds up to mean that Gabbard has critics on both sides of the aisle.

• 18:24Hannah McCarthy?

  She's also considered to be inexperienced in the realm of national security.

• 18:28Nick Capodice?

  And she got the confirmation.

• 18:30Hannah McCarthy?

  She got the confirmation, so add that to the long list. She has since emphasized the need for America's allies to work with the United States to share intelligence in the interest of, quote, "peace, security, and prosperity." So do you want to hear who tied with her?

• 18:45Nick Capodice?

  Oh, I know who it is, Hannah.

• 18:46Hannah McCarthy?

  You do?

• 18:48Nick Capodice?

  I do. That would be Robert F. Kennedy Jr. for Secretary of Health and Human Services.

• 18:54Speaker 09

  Our country will sink beneath a sea of desperation and debt if we don't change the course and ask why our health care costs so high in the first place.

• 19:05Nick Capodice?

  Okay, so Kennedy is Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy's son and President John F. Kennedy's nephew. He is an environmental lawyer and has done a lot of work in clean water advocacy and human rights. He's also propagated the widely debunked myth that vaccines cause autism and spread misinformation about the COVID-19 vaccine during the height of the pandemic. He ran for president as an independent in 2024, dropped out of the race eventually, and endorsed Donald Trump.

• 19:36Hannah McCarthy?

  Right. So that vaccine thing, Nick, was a major sticking point during his confirmation hearing. When questioned about his views, Kennedy said they were taken out of context, that he is not anti-vaccine. In fact, he said he supports vaccines and just wants, quote unquote, "good science." He got the job without Mitch McConnell's vote, and that job is to protect American health. This secretary is charged with preparing for and responding to public health emergencies, administering Medicaid, Medicare, and the Affordable Care Act, overseeing medical research and administering funding for it, and repping the U.S. in global health issues.

• 20:18Hannah McCarthy?

  We got one last one, Nick, at least for now.

• 20:21Nick Capodice?

  It is so many people, and yet it's not that many people. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, not a lot of people at the top.

• 20:28Hannah McCarthy?

  Yeah, and this last of the so far confirmed appointees did not have a lot of support at the top either. 51 ayes and 15 nays, the smallest margin for any confirmed Defense Secretary in history.

• 20:43Nick Capodice?

  So the total of votes here, Hannah, is 101, which makes me assume that Vice President Vance broke the tie.

• 20:50Hannah McCarthy?

  That's correct.

• 20:51Nick Capodice?

  And we're talking about Pete Hegseth.

• 20:54Speaker 10

  As I've said to many of you in private meetings, when President Trump chose me for this position, the primary charge he gave me was to bring the warrior culture back to the Department of Defense.

• 21:04Nick Capodice?

  The thing that always blew my mind about the Department of Defense, the DOD, is the sheer size of it. It is so big, Hannah.

• 21:14Hannah McCarthy?

  It's the largest government agency. We are talking Army, Navy, Air Force, Joint Chiefs of Staff, a bunch of other agencies within that department, by the way, including the NSA.

• 21:28Nick Capodice?

  Wait, the NSA is part of the DOD?

• 21:30Hannah McCarthy?

  It sure is. Over 3 million people work within the DOD. The 2025 budget request was nearly $850 billion.

• 21:41Hannah McCarthy?

  Now, the president is the commander in chief. How and when to employ and deploy the military, that is up to Trump. But the Secretary of Defense is responsible for defense policy, for spending that nearly trillion dollars, and taking care of people and equipment in our many hundreds of national and international military bases and our thousands of military installations. The secretary advises the president and helps them develop and implement defense strategy. It is the oldest department with the biggest budget, the most property, and the most people. So, Nick, can you tell these people who Pete Hegseth is?

• 22:23Nick Capodice?

  Hegseth is a former Army National Major. He served three tours. He then joined Fox News and became a co-host of Fox and Friends. Hegseth is a big Trump supporter. His confirmation hearing got a lot of coverage because it was so contentious. Hegseth has been accused of sexual assault. His former colleagues at Fox have expressed concerns about excessive alcohol consumption. He doesn't have a lot of experience managing people, which is considered a problem when you have to manage millions of people. And he has made statements opposed to women serving in the military.

• 23:00Hannah McCarthy?

  That's the long and short of it. Hegseth, by the way, has denied the personal conduct allegations. And during his hearing, he said that women would have access to ground combat roles under his leadership. He got three Republican days. Susan Collins of Maine, Mitch McConnell again, and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska.

• 23:23Hannah McCarthy?

  And that, Nick, is all she wrote. If she is the Senate confirming Trump's nominees, and also me.

• 23:31Nick Capodice?

  But you've said these are the confirmations so far. Who is left?

• 23:36Hannah McCarthy?

  Yeah, we are waiting on votes for the Secretary of Education, potentially Lynda McMahon, former CEO of World Wrestling Entertainment, aka WWE.

• 23:45Hannah McCarthy?

  The Labor Secretary, potentially Lori Chavez-Dreemer, a former city council member and House Rep. from Oregon. We are still missing the US Trade Representative, potentially Jameson Greer, who's a lawyer. He was also a trade official in Trump's first term. And we are missing the UN Ambassador, potentially Elise Stefanic, a House Rep. from New York.

• 24:05Nick Capodice?

  Wow, OK. And then that'll be that.

• 24:08Hannah McCarthy?

  Well, we won't know till we know, but all of these other nominees are less contentious than some of those who have been confirmed already, if that tells us anything.

• 24:17Nick Capodice?

  I think it maybe tells us something.

• 24:19Hannah McCarthy?

  All right, so per usual, stay tuned. Civics 101 is going to be here. Basics and not-so-basics of government, right where you need them. And also sometimes trivia about Nick, who has lived a very interesting life. His band once made a commercial for a light bulb company.

• 24:36Nick Capodice?

  We did. Oh, how we did. Well, I'm going to see your trivia and raise you, McCarthy.

• 24:43Hannah McCarthy?

  All right, I guess that's only fair, but just like leave middle school Hannah out of this. She's seen enough.

• 24:48Nick Capodice?

  You mean the middle school Hannah who painted herself entirely in green and performed "For Good" from Wicked in a variety show?

• 25:00Hannah McCarthy?

  That does it for this episode. It was produced by me, Hannah McCarthy, with Nick Caprije and Rebecca Lavoy. Our executive producer, thank you again, Rebecca Lavoy. Christina Phillips is our senior producer. Music in this episode comes from Epidemic Sound. You can find everything else we have ever made, including lots and lots of info on many of our executive branch departments and agencies, at civics101podcast.org. Civics 101 is a production of NHPR, New Hampshire Public Radio.

• 25:52Speaker 11

  Did you know that if your spouse goes missing and you don't tell anyone, that's not necessarily a crime? That surprising fact is at the heart of the brand new season of Bear Brook, the critically acclaimed true crime podcast from New Hampshire Public Radio. I'm your host, Jason Moon. In this season, Bear Brook investigates another New Hampshire mystery. A Christmas tree farmer with dementia vanishes. His wife never reports him missing. Can he still be found? Don't miss it. Follow Bear Brook wherever you get your podcasts.