The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Power of Attorney and Guardianship: A Guide For Families And Healthcare Personnel by Katie DeWerdt MS. CHES-r. LNHA

Power of Attorney and Guardianship: A Guide For Families And Healthcare Personnel by Katie DeWerdt MS. CHES-r. LNHA https://www.amazon.com/Power-Attorney-Guardianship-Healthcare-Personnel/dp/B0DMVJS8P3 Katiecookswithlove.com Navigating life’s challenges for loved ones can feel overwhelming, but Katie DeWerdt provides a guiding light. Drawing from her expertise in skilled nursing facilities, DeWerdt unravels the complexities of legal authority and compassionate caregiving. With clarity and empathy, she empowers families and caregivers to balance autonomy and advocacy, offering practical guidance to uphold dignity in times of uncertainty.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries and motivators. Get ready, get ready. Strap yourself in, keep your hands, arms and legs inside the vehicle at all times. Cause you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now here's your host, Chris Voss.

• 0:36Speaker 01

  Folks, it's Voss here from the Chris Voss Show dot com. Ladies and gentlemen, there on the scenes of that mixed official, welcome to 16 years and 2,800 episodes of the Chris Voss Show. Cause we're crazy about giving great education and information to our audience. Yeah, that's it. Anyway, guys, go to goodreads.com for Chris Voss, linkedin.com for Chris Voss. Chris Voss, one of the Tik Tok and all those crazy places on the internet and all that good stuff. Opinions expressed by guests on the podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the host or the Chris Voss Show. Some guests of the show may be advertising on the podcast, but it is not endorsement or review of any kind. So we're going to be bringing a most amazing lady today.

• 1:16Speaker 01

  We're going to be talking about her book called Power of Attorney and Guardianship, A Guide for Families and Healthcare Personnel out November 12th, 2024. Katie DeWerdt joins us on the show. We're going to be talking about her book, her insights and everything else as we get into it. But first Katie is a seasoned professional with a vast experience in health and caregiving. She holds an associate degree in arts, a bachelor in science, a master's in science and a certificate in website development. That seems anticlimactic there, Katie.

• 1:56Speaker 01

  I know how much work goes into a master's.

• 1:58Speaker 02

  That's true. That's true. There's always more to come.

• 2:02Speaker 01

  You do a lot and we're going to get into it and we're going to talk about several of your books that cover a gambit of topics, but as a certified health education specialist and licensing nursing home administrator, she's passionate about spreading love and thoughtfulness. Good for her. That's why we need more of that. She needs, she brings both her writing and her life as a mother and administrator. Welcome to the show, Katie. How are you?

• 2:26Speaker 02

  Thank you. I'm great. Thank you so much for having me.

• 2:29Speaker 01

  Thank you and thanks for coming. Give us your dot coms. Any place on the interwebs and the sky that people might want to find you.

• 2:37Speaker 02

  Yes. Katie cooks with love.com features all of my books, the one that we're going to be talking about today, Power of Attorney and Guardianship. I've got it right here. It's a great guide for people that need to delve into the healthcare world.

• 2:52Speaker 01

  So give us a 30,000 overview. What's inside the book? Power of Attorney and Guardianship?

• 2:58Speaker 02

  So it talks about what happens when a person cannot make decisions for themselves and in those, in those circumstances, there are so many topics that come up in the healthcare world. Healthcare personnel cannot make certain decisions for you, anything related to finances and certain decisions with healthcare need to be made by someone of sound mind. And so sometimes when people get into situations where they can't make their own decisions, if these things aren't set up in advance, it can be really tricky.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  I use these for all my girlfriends when they can't figure out what they want to eat for dinner. So I go, well, you're going to have to sign this form and I'll figure out that it's going to be, it's going to be, I'm trying to think of the lobster place, you know?

• 3:46Speaker 02

  Red lobster.

• 3:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's funny.

• 3:50Speaker 01

  Joke set up there.

• 3:52Speaker 02

  You're going to be power of attorney over the dinner decisions, right?

• 3:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's how it works around our house. Now, power of attorney and guardianship, how does this work? Set us a ground floor definition. Let's say I've never heard of this before.

• 4:08Speaker 02

  So in power of attorney, that is giving someone the right to make decisions for you. So of course you want to make sure that it's someone that's going to be making the correct decisions. Some of these things can be set up without any kind of money or lawyer. For example, healthcare power of attorney can be set up with a form that is signed by the person deciding who's going to be the power of attorney. And it can also be signed by a witness in the healthcare setting. But there are certain things that have to be done in a courtroom, like guardianship is through a court.

• 4:52Speaker 02

  And there is a determined guardian put in place for the person that cannot make decisions. And it's very important to know how to go through these processes. If you have aging parents, if you have children that are minors, these things are very important to know about.

• 5:12Speaker 01

  Now, the power of attorney and then guardianship, these are two different things, kind of, aren't they? They probably work together in some facet, but is, do I have that understanding correct?

• 5:24Speaker 02

  Yes, that is correct. Or of attorney is different documentation than guardianship. And in fact, there's something in the book that touches on surrogacy laws, which is very important for people to understand because what if there is no power of attorney? What if there is no guardianship set up? And somebody needs to be making decisions for you. Maybe there was a car accident and all of a sudden you're not able to make those decisions. So who's making those decisions? You don't have power of attorney, you don't have guardianship set up. There are surrogacy laws. And so you gotta make sure you like the person you're living with because the surrogate is going to be your spouse or your domestic partner.

• 6:08Speaker 02

  That's going to be the first, what person they go to.

• 6:11Speaker 01

  Wow. Is that also the person who might inherit the insurance policy if I, if they decide they don't wanna, they wanna kick the plug out on me because they have power of attorney?

• 6:21Speaker 02

  Hopefully you've got people that are really lobbying for your best interests in those situations.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  I don't know. I mean, a lot of these married people at COVID, they found out most of them didn't like each other. You know, and I, I've heard some stories too about just some of these marriages. I, I don't think I'd ever trust somebody in, in the case that they also hold beneficiary to my life insurance. You know what I mean?

• 6:45Speaker 02

  Right.

• 6:45Speaker 01

  Just being funny. Now guardianship, that's a little bit different, right? Where is that, is that where, is that where, I mean, obviously are you, are you guarding over your children, right? Until they hit 18, is that just a de facto thing or is it not?

• 6:59Speaker 02

  Yes. So guardianship comes into play. For example, recently had a resident that came into a nursing home where I was the administrator and he didn't know anything about his finances. He didn't know, he, he has a house. It's, it is on his face sheet that he has a house, doesn't know anything about his finances, doesn't know how to log into his bank, doesn't know those. So in those cases, a state appointed guardian is, is lobbied for so that someone can be making decisions for this person. And, you know, therefore you, you know, we go through the court system, through the guardianship process.

• 7:40Speaker 02

  As a nursing home administrator, I'm going to set up with a state appointed guardian, which is just someone that works for the state and makes decisions based on what that person needs. You know, what, what's going on if they have a house, do they want to use it for their care? And, and it's always so important that even if somebody is not decisional, they can still tell us some of what is important to them. You know, always making decisions based on what it is that they want.

• 8:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And, and, and looking out for folks, you know, I mean, we live in this environment right now. I, I, I think in sometime in the last month, we had a guest on who introduced me to the phrase, the sandwich generation, or the sandwich parents, or something, something like that. But basically, it is the, we know, we have people living older and longer than ever before in human history. I mean, back a hundred years ago, I was dead, most people were dead by the time they were my age. I think at forty-five or something was like the peak. And even when they created social security, you know, I think 10% of people hit sixty-five, you know, US governments, this is a great deal for us. Now they're like, oh crap, these people living, let's come out with things that killed them. Anyway,

• 8:58Speaker 01

  let's start a war. Anyway, it's twenty twenty-six folks, if you don't understand that joke. But so we have these, and I guess the sandwich parent or the sandwich generation now, the problem they have is they have children on one side of the sandwich that, you know, they have to take care of, and then they have parents on the other side of the sandwich they have to take care of. So they're literally taking care of two different people, probably changing diapers on both ends. I don't know. Yeah.

• 9:24Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 9:25Speaker 01

  Now, let me ask you this, is it, my, my sister has been in, had MS, and she had it very early, and it's the disabling one. And, you know, she spent the last ten or fifteen years in, in, what you call them, nursing homes or care centers? Is there a difference?

• 9:40Speaker 02

  You can call it a nursing home, skilled nursing facility. Those are one in the same.

• 9:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and it's been an interesting thing to see some of these centers and how they operate and, and stuff and different things. And she's moved between about four or five of them. And let's just say for a, for a, for an example of how a power of attorney should be used, let's just say that maybe a psychiatrist recently started coming in and having her sign papers to receive psychiatry care. And my mother has power of attorney. My sister is in full dementia and MS dementia from MS. So should that have happened in that case?

• 10:21Speaker 02

  Oh goodness, no, no. In the case that a person is incapacitated and cannot making, cannot be making decisions, there are a lot of cognitive tests that nursing homes are required to perform. And if those cognitive tests are in a certain format and they have a decisional person like your mom, who's the power of attorney, that is the person who should be signing those forms.

• 10:46Speaker 01

  Hmm. What would you do to reconcile that if that happened? You know, if it happened?

• 10:51Speaker 02

  I think, you know, you, you want to look at what does, does your mom also want what this person is advocating for? You know, there are.

• 11:01Speaker 01

  They did it right behind her back, assuming that it happened, let's put it that way.

• 11:07Speaker 02

  Yeah. If that's the case, I would definitely first go seek the administration of the facility so that you can let them know what your wishes are. And, you know, your mom as the power of attorney has the right to say, I don't want this for my child. I did not sign off on this paperwork. This needs to be reversed.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, she can't even, she can't make decisions. Well, my brother who hasn't seen her a few years went and visited her yesterday and, and he, she didn't remember him. And, you know, I mean, that's where we're at. But yeah, this is a, there's a very powerful thing. And I think is, you know, more and more of this sandwiched generation folks, they're dealing with dementia, Alzheimer's. It's very sad to watch someone disappear and they're still alive in front of you. You know, they're not dead, but they disappear and they don't, and they don't recognize you or, or, you know, sometimes you have to deal with their anger at their confusion and stuff like that.

• 12:06Speaker 02

  Yes. But you know, there are still so many ways to connect with somebody, even if they're nonverbal, even if they have dementia, even if they have those, all of those things that make them incapacitated. Have you ever seen people who respond to music that have dementia? You play a song they can connect with and all of a sudden they're singing the song and you're like, oh my goodness, this person couldn't even talk. And so there are still so many ways to connect with people. Once they go into the realm where they're not able to communicate the ways they used to.

• 12:42Speaker 01

  I think we had someone on a few weeks ago, we have everybody on at this point, pretty much, who talked about that. And I remember seeing the special on Tony Bennett, when he was in the throes of dementia. And they, they said, you know, we can still just put him on stage, hand him a mic. And suddenly, as soon as the piano starts playing, he turns on and he sings his music. And it's kind of like a muscle. But it also helps him, to my understanding, stuff like that, coloring books, music, whatever, you know, old things that can trigger who they used to be, or what they used to love, can help you that connector.

• 13:22Speaker 02

  Yes, absolutely. In fact, there are, there are ways to even tell, you know, someone who is incapacitated, and maybe they can't speak with you, but they can still make facial expressions, they can still tell you in certain ways what they want. And so in my book, Power of Attorney and Guardianship, I talk a lot about making sure that we're advocating for those people in the correct capacity. You know, are we really doing what's, what's right for those loved ones that are in those situations that can't make their decisions?

• 13:53Speaker 01

  What prompt did you write this book? What was the motivation behind it?

• 13:57Speaker 02

  Being in the nursing home industry for 19 years as an administrator, I saw that there were so many families that were struggling with what to do. What do I do with power of attorney? How do I get power of attorney? How do these things work? And so I wanted a guide for the families. And I found that also fellow colleagues have found the book to be helpful for them as well, for people who are in the healthcare field, but really need, you know, some guidance on what these things mean and how to go about them.

• 14:29Speaker 01

  This is, this is really important. I mean, I think during COVID, you know, me and my mom looked at each other and, and you know, she's, she and I are the last of the family, and then my sister, at least that we talk, let's put it that way. And we realized that we could become a capacity with COVID. You know, I mean, COVID was, when it first came out, it was pretty hefty. And I got it four years later. And it kicked my ass. It tried to kill me. So I'm glad I didn't get the original version of it. And, you know, I had four virus shots in me and it still tried to take me out. And, and so we did the thing where we went and got the legal documents signed and notarized where if we were to be incapacitated, couldn't make decisions for ourselves because

• 15:13Speaker 01

  we're like, you know, this COVID was really crazy how fast it was moving. And, and, you know, you couldn't even be in the hospital with your, your person. We had all those signs. So we got anticipation for that. And then, you know, it's good to have because if, like you say, if you're in a situation where you can't decide, I remember I recently went into surgery this year for this last year for two hernias and the hospital made a big stink about it. And I was like, what's the big deal? And they're like, well, you end up, I don't know, vegetative state, or you end up, you know, and then, you know, this is a non resuscitation thing, too. Do you get into that, the decision of whether or not they should pull the plug on you?

• 15:50Speaker 02

  Those things would be covered definitely in all of your, what you want for what happens. So in the power of attorney, you can define those things, you know, what is it that you want? Do you want supportive life? Do you want a machine to keep you alive? Or, you know, what is it that you want? You can put those things right into your power of attorney paperwork.

• 16:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. I just told him to hook up a podcast mic in the thing so I can keep doing the show, even though, I don't know, I'll probably tell better jokes if I'm incapacitated. I don't know. Yeah, they'd probably be better. Listening to you drool might be more interesting than what you do now, Chris. Anyway, that's why we have wonderful guests on. Anything more you want to talk to us about this book? And we'll move to your other two books if not?

• 16:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. Additionally, I think it's really important to think about what kinds of things would I want? You know, as you said, you went and got that paperwork signed and you have everything mapped out, but a lot of people don't have it mapped out. Do your loved ones know what you want when something goes down? You know, would they know what to do with your house? Would they know what to do with all of those things that are very important to us in our waking state should be important to us if something happens as well?

• 17:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, my mom has, you know, she has specific interests. She's obviously older than me. I hope that'd be weird if it wasn't, but I don't know. I guess you get adopted. I don't know. Anyway, why would you adopt an adult? Children only. Anyway, she's a joke. This is the best I got. That's the guy. It's early. But, you know, she, she wants to, she wants to stay in her home as long as she can. You know, no one wants to die in a hospital or a care center. I mean, they're, they're very necessary for, you know, the conditions that you're in where you can't take care of yourself. You need people to bathe you and, and, you know, make sure you're okay and have medical there for you at beck and call. But, you know, I mean, she wants to, you know, die in her home. She

• 17:53Speaker 01

  wants to enjoy in her home as long as she can. You know, I don't want to die in a hospital bed. I think if I was at that moment, I'd just be like, can you just wheel me out front so I can see the sun one last time?

• 18:06Speaker 02

  How about, no, that's super powerful. What you're saying is so true. You know, I've been in the nursing home setting for over 19 years. And when you see people, I, I try to connect with them. What is it that you want? You know, what is that you want? I, I do an I wish program at every facility that I oversee. And what that means is, for example, I had a hospice resident and he said, you know, I just want this certain dish. I just want this. One of our residents said, I just want some chitlins. And so one of our social workers made that for him. And it was, it was so beautiful. You know, I mean, what, what a way. One of the hospice residents said, I want to see my son perform

• 18:48Speaker 02

  in high school band. So we, we got him there with our caregivers. And, you know, there's something so powerful about what you're saying. You know, I would just, you said, I would just want to see the sunshine. And there's, everyone has those wishes. And so it's super important that we tune in with those things.

• 19:07Speaker 01

  And I want In-N-Out Burger delivered every day and fed to me.

• 19:12Speaker 02

  Get it all done. What is it that you want?

• 19:15Speaker 01

  I'm not sure that some of that would be healthy for me in that state of dementia. But you know, whatever we can do there. So we have that book there. And then you have two other books that we wanted to touch on. Which one do you want to talk about first?

• 19:31Speaker 02

  We'll talk about Katie Cook's For You With Love. That was actually created with all of my children's favorite recipes. So all their favorite things like they love the chicken noodle soup. And so over time, I've created these recipes for them. Their favorite things. And this is what the book is.

• 19:55Speaker 01

  Chicken bacon burgers on a pellet smoker. That sounds good.

• 20:01Speaker 02

  Oh, yes. Yeah, that does sound good.

• 20:05Speaker 01

  I have to take a break to go eat something really quick, folks.

• 20:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, sounds good. Yeah, it's my, one of my children has type one diabetes. And so it was very important that I was creating things with higher proteins. You know, some of the recipes have higher protein. His favorite is the meatloaf that that is in the cookbook as well. Yeah. So I found also, you know, being a working mom, you need some recipes that are quick and easy, you know? Some of these in the cookbook are a little more, take a little more time. But some of the recipes you can get home, whip it up, have it on the table, and you've got some nutrients right there.

• 20:53Speaker 01

  Now, it says Katie cooks for you with love. This seems like it's a, it's a little misleading because you're not coming over and cooking. You're just giving me a book.

• 21:03Speaker 02

  I am, I do have a few YouTube videos out there and I'd be happy to, to cook for people as well if that, if that should ever arise, but I, I do, it is a passion of mine to, to cook for the people that I love. And every Christmas, every Christmas, I have everybody over at my house. I, I cook for 12 hours and making everybody's favorites. I, I, I love to cook for people.

• 21:31Speaker 01

  Do you have any adoption options at your home, at least during Christmas time?

• 21:36Speaker 02

  Sir, come on over.

• 21:38Speaker 01

  I'm a single guy, man. Anytime anybody offers me like home cooked food, I'm like, I'm, I'll be, I'll be there in a minute. What do you, what do you want me to bring? I'll be there. There's nothing like home cooked food. Cause I, you know, I live out. I, I, I'm always eating out of debt. I pretty well find dining and stuff, but you know, I also eat some crap, but yeah, it's cooked meals is, is the best. I used to go, I used to go to my friend's house when they're, they're, they're, their wife or their parents would cook for Thanksgiving or something. And they're like, is Chris still in the kitchen? And you know, I'm just sitting there just eating everything and they're just like, is he okay? Yeah. He's single. He's a single guy. No one feeds him. So he just loves home

• 22:19Speaker 01

  cooked feels, home cooked meals. You know, my mom, my grandma's like that. She could, she, I don't know what it was, but she could cook with love. And you know,

• 22:28Speaker 02

  That's amazing.

• 22:29Speaker 01

  You go in and she'd be, and you'd be like, and she'd be like, what do you want? What do you, I'll make you anything you want. What do you want? And you, you'd tell her and you kind of knew what she always made. And she'd make it with love. And then she'd sit and talk to you and then she'd sit with you in the thing. And, and boy, it was so wonderful.

• 22:45Speaker 02

  And was she, was your grandma the one to have the parties like Christmas and all the celebrations?

• 22:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, we do the big Thanksgiving, Christmas, and we'd have this huge table and three families of the sons over. And yeah, we'd do the big spread there, that thing. Yeah. It was always wonderful. And home cooked food is just, I don't know, it's just made better than, you know, the crap you get at McDonald's.

• 23:10Speaker 02

  Yes, and we actually grow our own garden as well.

• 23:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:13Speaker 02

  Yes, some of the recipes have some garden inspired recipes to them.

• 23:19Speaker 01

  That's what we need, more gardens, folks. Eat at home. I buy most of my food from a local farm. And salads and fruits and vegetables and eggs and meat and all that sort of stuff. And boy, the quality is so much different than the crap you get at the store. And it's fresh.

• 23:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, definitely. And it can really inspire you to cook some different things. If you, if you grow something, you know, like a cotton candy pepper. Have you ever heard of that?

• 23:48Speaker 01

  No. What?

• 23:50Speaker 02

  There's all different kinds of peppers out there. And so some of the things we grow inspire me to make some different types of things.

• 23:58Speaker 01

  So it tastes like cotton candy, but it burns your mouth off? How does that work?

• 24:02Speaker 02

  No. No, it just, it kind of has stripes on it and it's not a hot pepper.

• 24:09Speaker 01

  Oh, okay. All right. So it's like a ghost pepper that tastes like cotton candy while your face melts?

• 24:14Speaker 02

  No.

• 24:14Speaker 01

  You're like, you're like, you're sweating profusely from that ghost pepper. And you're like, but it tastes like cotton candy. I don't know. So people can learn from that, you know, it's, and of course, type one diabetes, you know, you got to be mindful of, of, you know, the sugars and insulin response and all that sort of stuff. So eating healthy is really important for those folks too as well.

• 24:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. And you know, a lot of people don't realize type one diabetes is usually caused by your own immune system attacking the pancreas.

• 24:46Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 24:47Speaker 02

  Yes. You know, type two diabetes is when you abuse your pancreas over years. Type one diabetes is usually the immune system attacks the pancreas and then it's no longer functional.

• 25:00Speaker 01

  It's a wonder I'm tired too, because of all the abuse I gave my, I used to do fifteen Mountain Dews a day, huh? I still look back and go, what the hell was I doing? That was a, that, that was a dark part of my life or something, I don't know, something like that. But yeah, I mean, eating healthy, eating good foods, you know, learning to cook at home, you know, there's so many people that feed their kids these processed foods, you know, I shudder to think about all the, all the, what do they used to call those things? The fish fingers? You know, the

• 25:29Speaker 02

  Oh, fish sticks, yeah.

• 25:30Speaker 01

  Fish sticks, and I think we used to put our finger in their arm. But, you know, we were creative when we were kids, because we didn't have, we didn't have iPhones. We just had dirt clods and, and fish fingers. But I remember, you know, the frozen foods and all that crap, and now I just look at that stuff, and I just go, man, what kind of rock out we're eating? But, you know, we're, I don't know.

• 25:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I still throw some of that kind of stuff into the rotation, you know, depending on what's going on. If you, you got to look at the nutrients, you know, what are you getting out of it? If you look at the, if you look at the package and you're getting some kind of vitamins, minerals, tho- those kinds of things can still be had through some frozen things. But it is, it is so much better when you cook from scratch.

• 26:12Speaker 01

  And let's round out to your other book, Divorce Without a Lawyer, a Beginner's Guide. I hope it's a Beginner's Guide, because, you know, is there advanced level by your fourth or something?

• 26:22Speaker 02

  I just, the reason I created that book, all of my books, any book that I've written, I've written it to help people in certain ways. And so I was sitting next to someone on an airplane who was running a homeless shelter, and she was describing that there are people that are stuck in marriages and homeless shelters, and they have no way of getting out of this marriage. And so I was able to draw from some experience that there are economical ways to go through a divorce.

• 26:54Speaker 01

  I, I like that, because I've, I've had friends that have gone through divorce court, and the money they, they have spent, I'll give you an example. So I had a, a good friend, and he, they weren't married, they were living together, and they had some twins. And they decided they didn't like each other, which they should have figured out long before, because I figured out they didn't. But they had kids and you know, that's kind of the, they figured out what creates that stuff and evidently they should have stopped that. But they didn't and they had kids. So when they separated, you know, they had to figure out who got control of the kids and who who got paid and you know, all that stuff. And I remember my friend and, and, and this is, I don't want to say a lot of attorneys do this,

• 27:39Speaker 01

  but many attorneys, they're, they're just in it for the money and they bill for time. And they understand their, their requiem of the court. And you know, there's a lot of stalling you can do throughout these courts. And, and I, I would, I would watch my friend being led around by his attorney. And of course, her attorney was leading and you know, gassing her up to into this big fight. And they both each, at first the judge said, you know, here's the options we will probably have here of who gets what and what gets who and who gets this and who has to, you know, spend more time with the kids. And it was pretty obvious because he was a work at home entrepreneur, photography father, and she would, would fly to San Francisco all the time to do account work

• 28:24Speaker 01

  at a big accountant firm. So she was never around much, but somehow she suddenly wanted to be a stay at home mom and then he was supposed to pay for everything. And the judge is, eh, not the way you guys are set up. No, no, it's not happening. And so they decided they want to fight over it and you know, both attorneys are gassing them up. They each spent on credit cards $50,000 each, $100,000 to pay their attorneys to fight over stupid shit. And in the end, when they finally ran out of credit card room and you know, realized that, what the hell is going on here? And that they're being, you know, led around by the nose by the attorneys. They finally settled. And you know what they got in the settlement?

• 29:10Speaker 01

  They got the exact damn thing the attorney was gonna give them in the first place. And I said to him, I go, you have two kids and you just blew out a hundred grand out your ass. You could have put into a college fund. You're going to definitely need to raise those kids. And you just did it for the vanity project of throwing shit at each other. I mean, they were just in there, you know, this one time he didn't do the dishes right or something.

• 29:36Speaker 02

  Oh, yes, that's so sad. And unfortunately, I do think that a lot of lawyers lead you in that direction because they're going to make more money off of it. But there, there is a way to get a divorce for $350.

• 29:52Speaker 01

  $350, I'll get married now.

• 29:55Speaker 02

  The thing is, though, is you have to agree, though. If there's disagreement between the two parties, then it usually does end up being that you'll need a lawyer. Yeah, but you, there's a form and you can go through the court system and, you know, you can legally get divorced for about $350, but you have to both agree on everything.

• 30:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think the judge should be able to say, you, you two people are being stupid. And we're either going to take your kids if you're going to spend a hundred grand fighting over dumb shit. And I mean, I remember I went to court one day because he wanted me to testify. And I think I testified. And, and it didn't, it didn't matter at all. I mean, the judge is, you know, we don't judge, you know, all this bullshit you guys are putting up is just bullshit. I mean, it's not going to affect the outcome in any way, shape or form because they're not worried about whether or not Bob didn't put the dishes right back in, or maybe he, maybe he puts toilet paper on the wrong way, whichever way you think that is. Don't write me, folks. But yeah, so, I mean, it, there's certain, there's a certain mon, you know, I see people,

• 31:04Speaker 01

  I know people that spend millions in divorce. And, and I'm just like, this seems really antithetical to the interest of the children. Give them the money.

• 31:16Speaker 02

  Yes, I agree. And, and actually, at certain points in time, the court will appoint them their own lawyer. The children will have their own lawyer. Yes, because

• 31:29Speaker 01

  There was a lawyer in this situation.

• 31:30Speaker 02

  They, the court, they have to make sure that the children are being advocated for in the correct way. And, and that actually kind of goes back to the power of attorney and guardianship book, too. You know, who, who is going to have the guardianship over the children, right?

• 31:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. I just, I just put them up for adoption. That's what I did. There's a joke I always do about how the reason I've never been married is I've been saving up for my first divorce. And I've raised about 2 million and I'm just waiting for probably another million and then, and then, and then I'll get, and then I'll get married. That's kind of joke I was running. But geez, this, this thing here where I can read your book and figure out how to do it without a lawyer for 350 bucks, I just might get married three or four times.

• 32:15Speaker 02

  You gotta, just make sure that whoever it is, you get along really well with them. So you can make the decisions together.

• 32:23Speaker 01

  So I don't know, I'm trying to think of a joke there. I have one, but I'm not going to say it. Anyway, people that I get along with. So basically I should marry my dog or something. Cause it's about the only thing that unconditionally loves me and I get along with. Although, they'll probably divorce me and take me to dog treat court or something. I don't know. Anyway, any more we need should know about divorce without a lawyer?

• 32:47Speaker 02

  Just that there's also another option where you can, you can go with the same lawyer. But again, it's gotta be a situation where you're, you're pretty much making the same decisions together. Because ultimately, like you talked about your friend and his ex-wife, ultimately, they ended up making the same decision, right? And so if they had come together and said, hey, you know, let's just use one lawyer. That's another way that you can really cut the costs.

• 33:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, I just, I, I think most people know that attorneys are going to gas you up on billables. I don't know. I maybe have to be stupid not to know that. For some reason, they didn't. Cause I remember, I remember the attorney called me up and he's, we're going to, we want you to drive down from Vegas and to California and testify. And I'm like, is this really going to help my buddy? If I come down and testify, when we walk out of that courtroom, is he going to have his children? And he's, oh yeah, oh yeah. He gassed me up. And I said, if I come down there, buddy, and this doesn't happen, I'm gonna fucking tear you new asshole. And I end up doing that. His attorney and because it didn't happen. I went down and testified and they went and the judge was like,

• 33:59Speaker 01

  that's a cute story, man. Got anything else? And but no, it's now, now, do you cover one of the other worries? You can do divorce without a lawyer, which is usually involves a pillow over the face and while they're asleep.

• 34:13Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 34:15Speaker 01

  I'm just kidding.

• 34:16Speaker 02

  Nothing like that.

• 34:18Speaker 01

  Don't do that. Those are jokes.

• 34:19Speaker 02

  Always good terms. Always good terms.

• 34:23Speaker 01

  Good term. I mean, it was good for me. All right. Well, I like how you played in the divorce without a lawyer. And then you've got the power of attorney and guardianship thing right there. I see what you've done there. You've kind of connected the two books, eh?

• 34:36Speaker 01

  Maybe?

• 34:37Speaker 02

  Definitely. And and all of my books have, there's, there are a way to help people. So there will be more coming out. I'm working on a children's book right now. And I'm going to be working on a book regarding nursing home setting and all of the different things that we deal with there where we are required to do some of the same things that a hospital does with 300% less reimbursement.

• 35:03Speaker 01

  Whoa. I just got the bill a few months ago for my hospital. So it was $125,000 for hernia repair. And yeah.

• 35:14Speaker 02

  So expensive.

• 35:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I was like there for three hours or something. I don't know. And yeah, I was like, wow. Okay. And yeah, thank God I had insurance. And geez, wow. Now, have you ever thought about doing a tie in to your divorce without lawyer book? You could do a Katie cooks for you with hate. And it's all cookbook, how to poison your spouse so that you can get a divorce without a lawyer.

• 35:43Speaker 02

  No, only positive vibes from me. Only positive vibes. Nice.

• 35:50Speaker 01

  You've given me some ideas and some books to write.

• 35:55Speaker 02

  You know, I'm, you know, it might take off better than these have. I don't know. You might want to try it out, but.

• 36:02Speaker 01

  I'll check with the attorney to see if that's legal.

• 36:06Speaker 01

  Maybe do a joke book. I think people have done joke books about doing heinous acts and you know, just like, yeah, we're just, we're just kidding, folks. These are just satire. But do you have an anticipation for your other books you're working on of delivery dates when they'll be released?

• 36:22Speaker 02

  Yes, the children's book should be later this year, probably the end, maybe November, December 2026. So that's exciting. The, the one regarding nursing home, that will probably be several years still down the line.

• 36:40Speaker 01

  Okay. Got to have that nursing home stuff. Yeah. It's, is it going to be about advocating in nursing homes and care centers, advocating for your, your, your person and, and trying to make sure they do their jobs?

• 36:57Speaker 02

  Definitely. And, and also advocating for the employees. Do you know, most nursing home employees don't even have time to take a break? Like the nurses that work for me, they don't even have time to take a break. I barely take a break because there's so much to do. There's so much to make sure of. And like I said, you know, the, the hospitals are getting like 300% more reimbursement. So they have a greater budget to work with the amount of staff they can have per patient.

• 37:29Speaker 01

  One of the things we've seen over the last 15 years of my sister being care centers is they used to be all like locally owned by some, you know, guy or family or whatever. And, you know, if you had a problem with them, you could just, hey, hey, Bob, what's going on over there? And then they slowly got bought up by all these massive corporations. You know, they got the big box to routine. And these guys just leaned out services and leaned out employees and just anything to cut costs. And, you know, normally what we found over the last few years is they're horribly.

• 38:03Speaker 02

  Yes. And, you know, you've got to make sure you've got the right people in charge of what's going on as well. You know, I, I recently did an interview with someone who was doing a study on certain things regarding some of the topics that you've just touched on. But, you know, the leadership.

• 38:22Speaker 02

  Has to care. And if you don't have someone who cares that is leading a nursing home, then it, to me, those things that you're talking about are going to become so much worse and become such a problem for the people that are laying in bed in those nursing home settings.

• 38:42Speaker 01

  And we see a lot of temp workers and coming in and out of different facilities. And these temp workers, you know, they're not there for long term. And so a lot of them are just slumming it as they go by. I'm not saying all people are slumming it in the, in the healthcare field there, folks. I'm just saying, some of the situations of these, these big buyout companies, you know, and they've got to be paying way more than, I mean, I've just seen some really poor management of some companies. And, you know, people's lives are on the line, you know, people, you know, there's been times at different facilities where my sister sat in feces all day because no one changed her and no one kept track of it. Because I don't know, they were watching TikToks or something. I don't know what they're doing. But they're definitely understaffed. I see a lot of that nowadays,

• 39:27Speaker 01

  where they need more staffing, they need better, higher quality people. And, and it seems like a lot of the people just, it's kind of like just a temp job, just to do for fun until they can, I don't know, go work at a hospital or something sometimes. I don't know.

• 39:41Speaker 02

  I want to tell you that there are really, truly dedicated people that care in the industry. Me being one, I have dedicated 19 years of my life. And in that time, that means I'm all, I'm on call 24/7 during all of that time, answering calls about, you know, what's going on with, maybe there's a fire alarm that goes off, or answering calls about, you know, someone fell and, you know, what, did, did we do all the correct protocols and make sure that there is a safety measure in place? So it doesn't happen again. You know, there's, there's so much to it. But I, you know, I want to tell you that there are some really dedicated people out there. I know what you're saying, that there are some people who, you know, don't care.

• 40:25Speaker 02

  And that's when it becomes a problem. But as the leader of a facility, You've got to be in tune with that and you've got to know who's, who's on the right team, you know, to make sure that the loved one who's laying in that bed, that is the most important part of what we do in a nursing home is take care of that person laying there that can't make their decisions. And so you've got to just have the right people in place.

• 40:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, I need somebody for when I have insomnia. I'm just laying in bed at night and I can't make decisions about stuff and I'm just like, I don't know, should I do X or Y? And then you're up all night worrying about it, thinking about it. Dude, so I need guardianship.

• 41:07Speaker 02

  I think you're okay right now.

• 41:10Speaker 01

  I don't know about that, but let's not push it. Anyway, no, I have really bad ADHD for a while here now and it's come back. I started testosterone therapy a couple of years ago and boy, it came back. I had, I thought I'd beaten with old age and just being broken down and worn ground down and whatever. And then it's like, oh no, your testosterone's just low. And they fixed that. And then ADHD is, hey, we're back, man. You miss us? And I'm like, no. Uh, but here we are. So anything more we want to plug is, as we go out, do you need consulting, training, speaking, anything more that we want to plug?

• 41:48Speaker 02

  Yes, I do speaking engagements. I have presentations on all of the topics that I've talked about and I actually have a website as well, KDcookswithlove.com and you can see all of my books there. And there is a way to email me through the website as well. So if you, you know, have any desire to see more information on the power of attorney and guardianship, I have a one hour presentation on that. I'd love to come out and help folks guide through those different topics.

• 42:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. You ever thought about moving to Utah to oversee a facility?

• 42:26Speaker 02

  For your sister. Oh, is that where?

• 42:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:30Speaker 02

  You know what? I, I hope that you can find a, a place that has someone who really cares and, you know, puts their heart out there to make sure they are, that your sister's taken, well, taken care of.

• 42:43Speaker 01

  They're trying to do the best job they can there. So assuming, assuming I haven't made up all these stories to keep, you know, the, the scary thing is they can just evict these people. If you, if you, you know, you don't, you, you, you know, raise a little bit too much hell, or they don't like the, the person that they're taking care of for, they can just give them a 30 notes and kick them out. Is that, is that, is that true?

• 43:07Speaker 01

  No, it's true.

• 43:08Speaker 02

  Not really. No, there's, there's a whole process. Cause there's, it's something called, there's a process called involuntary discharge, but usually it's only for non-payment. You know, each state is a little bit different. So in the state of Illinois, there is something called involuntary discharge, but it's usually only if there's non-payment.

• 43:29Speaker 01

  Ah, ah, that's kind of interesting. We'll talk after the show. So it's been wonderful to have you on. Give people your final pitch out on the books and dot coms and where they can find you and the YouTube channel too.

• 43:42Speaker 02

  You can find me at Katie cooks with love.com. I would love to come and tell you more about these topics. If you're interested, check out my YouTube as well, Katie DeWerdt, and I look forward to seeing some great people benefit from this information.

• 43:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. Thank you very much, Katie, for coming to the show. We really appreciate it.

• 44:02Speaker 02

  Thank you so much for having me.

• 44:04Speaker 01

  Thank you. And thanks for tuning in. Order for a book wherever fine books are sold. It's called Power of Attorney and Guardianship, A Guide for Families and Healthcare Personnel, out November 12th, 2024. And you can find our other books there as well on the Amazonian website. I don't know what the hell. So thank you for tuning in everyone. We certainly appreciate it. The Amazonian website. I don't know what I'm doing up to there. I just hope Bezos can sue me now. Anyway, guys, go to goodreads.com, forchesschriswos, linkedin.com, forchesschriswos. It is a pretty wild site. So it's Amazonian and all those places in the net. Be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you next time.

• 44:45Speaker 00

  You've been listening to the most amazing intelligent podcast ever made to improve your brain and your life. Warning, consuming too much of the Chris Walsh Show podcast can lead to people thinking you're smarter, younger, and irresistible sexy. Consume in regularly moderated amounts. Consult a doctor for any resulting brain bleed.

• 45:07Speaker 01

  All right there, Katie, we're out.