When AI Needs Humans with Sonja Breuer

In this episode of The Chad & Cheese Podcast, hosts Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman sit down with Sonja Breuer, Senior Vice President of HR at Hamra Enterprises a powerhouse franchise group operating over 200 locations across Wendy’s, Panera Bread, and Noodles & Company.💡 What You’ll Learn in This Episode: The “Easy Button” for Hiring: How custom AI bots (including a talking Frosty named Sam) drastically reduced candidate ghosting and eliminated scheduling headaches for restaurant managers. Slashing the Ad Budget: The secret behind leveraging evergreen ads and conversational tech to keep job board spending at a fraction of the budget. Daily Pay as a Game Changer: Why instant access to wages has become Hamra’s secret weapon for recruitment (and how it saved one employee's prom night!). Tech Meets Culture: Why Sonja—a self-proclaimed Gen X “human connection” person—believes automation doesn't replace empathy, but actually gives leaders the time to be more human. What’s Next for AI in HR: A sneak peek at how Hamra is using AI for company-wide internal communication and video-driven recruitment.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Dude, it turns out that Winston Smart Recruiter's first AI hiring sidekick is taking all the grunt work out of Recruiter's Day. Things like candidate screening, scheduling, all the admin garbage no one actually wants to touch. Winston can do it all.

• 0:17Speaker 01

  Man, you know I'm a fan of using new tech that takes the boring repetitive crap out of a Recruiter's Day and allows them to have more time to connect with hiring managers and candidates.

• 0:29Speaker 00

  Yep. Winston is doing the heavy lifting while recruiters kick back and do the actual hiring stuff. You know, like talking to people.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  I really dig that Smart Recruiters is evolving out of the legacy ATS model and embracing cleaner processes using AI. With most ATS providers, it's like, hey, 2003 called and it wants its 30-minute application process back.

• 0:53Speaker 00

  No doubt. It sounds like Rebecca and the team are using Winston to push Smart Recruiters into the future while the ATS vendors are basically on an AOL dial-up modem with a dashboard.

• 1:05Speaker 01

  With Smart Recruiters, Winston does the grind and the recruiters get the glory.

• 1:11Speaker 00

  For more information on superhuman hiring with Winston, visit smartrecruiters.com. That's smartrecruiters.com.

• 1:19Speaker 01

  Start using Winston today, or I guess you can stick with...

• 1:25Speaker 02

  Now we return you to our regular scheduled program in progress.

• 1:29Speaker 03

  Hi, your kids. Lock the doors. You're listening to HR's Most Dangerous Podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, brash opinion, and loads of snark. Buckle up, boys and girls. It's time for the Chad and Cheese Podcast.

• 1:52Speaker 00

  All right, let's do this. We are the Chad and Cheese Podcast. I'm your co-host, Joel Cheesman. Joined as always, Chad Sowash is in the house as we welcome Sonia Brewer, SVP of HR at Hamra.

• 2:03Speaker 01

  Hamra.

• 2:04Speaker 00

  Sonia, welcome to HR's Most Dangerous Podcast. It's Hamra time.

• 2:08Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 2:08Speaker 00

  It's Hamra time.

• 2:09Speaker 04

  It is.

• 2:10Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 2:10Speaker 04

  It is.

• 2:11Speaker 00

  And speaking of that, a lot of our listeners, viewers, won't know who Hamra is. Give us the deets on that as well as a little bit about you.

• 2:19Speaker 04

  Absolutely. So, Hamra is actually a family business owned and founded by Sam Hamra back in 1975. So, we're 50 years old. Feel older than 50. But we own Wendy's, Panera's, and Noodles & Company. And we're one of the oldest franchises actually for Wendy's and one of the oldest franchisees for Panera. So, we've been around the block.

• 2:42Speaker 00

  So, you're a conglomerate.

• 2:44Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 2:44Speaker 00

  That becomes a franchisee of all these businesses under one business.

• 2:48Speaker 04

  I say it's an umbrella.

• 2:49Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 2:49Speaker 04

  Hamra is the umbrella.

• 2:50Speaker 00

  And your footprint is what? Midwest, South, what?

• 2:56Speaker 01

  Everywhere.

• 2:56Speaker 00

  Everywhere.

• 2:57Speaker 04

  Yes. All I'll say is yes. So, we are Illinois, Massachusetts, into New Hampshire, but we go down Tennessee, Georgia, Alabama, New Orleans area. We actually just purchased seven Paneras in Houston that lost their franchise. And so, we're taking those over and we're going to open those up actually in June.

• 3:17Speaker 01

  How many stores?

• 3:18Speaker 04

  Right now, we have about 209.

• 3:21Speaker 01

  Wow. How many employees under?

• 3:23Speaker 04

  About 6,500.

• 3:26Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 3:26Speaker 04

  You know, it kind of fluctuates.

• 3:28Speaker 00

  Applications in a year.

• 3:28Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 3:29Speaker 04

  We get about 100,000 applications.

• 3:32Speaker 01

  Okay. Hello.

• 3:33Speaker 04

  Yeah. And, you know, hire about 7,000 every year off of Paradox. We've been with Paradox actually since 2021. And coming out of the pandemic, when no one could get applications. And the neat thing about Paradox is that what we saw is that our managers were too busy, you know, on the floor and they didn't have time to go back and call applicants. And nobody answers anyway because they don't know the phone number. They don't know the phone number. They're not answering. So, the applicant would call back after, you know, the manager was gone. So, it was this endless cycle. And from application to hire, we were

• 4:14Speaker 04

  about 13 days. And in our industry, you lost them.

• 4:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:19Speaker 04

  Because they can go down the street and get hired on the spot and start tomorrow. So, we saw that, you know, we weren't doing a good job. We were with a different ATS system at the time. And when we went on to Paradox, immediately saw a drastic change and got it down to four days. So, date of application to date of hire went to four days from 13 days. And I can honestly say that we are very well-staffed and we actually shut off ads.

• 4:50Speaker 01

  Stop it.

• 4:52Speaker 04

  I know. I know. It's, it's, people don't believe it.

• 4:55Speaker 01

  What changed? What changed? You didn't just switch one off and switch one on. What actually changed within the process methodology? Tell us.

• 5:03Speaker 04

  The easy button. So, it's the easy button from the applicant side because the easy button is they can go on Indeed and just click a button and apply. And our application in Paradox takes about three minutes to get through.

• 5:17Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 5:17Speaker 04

  And they like the bot. You know, we have little bots. We have a little Frosty. He's really cute. He's got a little hat.

• 5:23Speaker 00

  Sam.

• 5:23Speaker 04

  Yeah. His name is Sam. And we, we named him after our owner.

• 5:27Speaker 01

  Samra.

• 5:28Speaker 04

  Sam. Yeah. Yeah.

• 5:29Speaker 00

  I got to cross out that question.

• 5:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, exactly. How did we get Sam? So...

• 5:33Speaker 00

  Frosty hat.

• 5:34Speaker 04

  He's very cute. He's very cute.

• 5:36Speaker 01

  Everybody loves a Frosty.

• 5:37Speaker 04

  Well, and a talking Frosty. Why would you not like it? And then our Panera's, it's a little piece of bread with eyes because that's not scary, right? Talking about a piece of bread. And then our Noodles & Company is an elbow noodle with, with little eyes as well. So, everything has to have eyes, you know, to talk to you because that's what food should be. So, applicants, it's fast, it's easy. They can get through it in about four minutes. They can actually get an interview. They know, I'm interviewing tomorrow and this is where I'm going. And then we have lots of follow-up fun, you know, because we want to make sure that we've engaged that person.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:14Speaker 04

  So, we follow up with, hey, check out our benefits. Hey, do you know this about us? Hey, do you know this about us? Because they see us as Wendy's or as Panera or as Noodles & Company. So, we differentiate Hamra by saying, yeah, well, there may be a Wendy's down the street, but let me tell you about what Hamra has.

• 6:34Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 6:35Speaker 04

  And so, we talk about the HERO Fund. So, HERO is an acronym for Hamra Employees Reaching Out. It's a non-for-profit organization. It's actually a 501(c) that we created about 15 years ago that helps our own employees in times of need. And we have given out about $2.5 million to our own employees in times of need to get them off the streets, give them homes.

• 6:58Speaker 01

  That's awesome.

• 6:59Speaker 04

  You know, medical equipment, when they couldn't get medical equipment, you know, things that they need to survive. We've flown people to their home countries when their mom has been put into hospice because they couldn't afford to, you know, go home, be with mom. And we take people out of domestic abuse situations, put them up in housing, and get them counseling. And so, we actually can change people's lives.

• 7:25Speaker 00

  More money.

• 7:26Speaker 04

  More money.

• 7:27Speaker 00

  More money is what we're talking about. And you've saved a bunch when you pivoted to a more automated process.

• 7:33Speaker 04

  100%.

• 7:34Speaker 00

  And did I hear you say that you've stopped all advertising?

• 7:38Speaker 04

  Not all.

• 7:38Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 7:39Speaker 04

  Not all.

• 7:39Speaker 00

  So, talk about savings and we'll venture into this, what you've done in advertising.

• 7:44Speaker 04

  So, if you think about a restaurant, a restaurant obviously operates with, you know, eight people, 10 people, depending on volume, right?

• 7:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:53Speaker 04

  So, that manager going off of the floor to go make a call, to go review applications, to go see if, you know, these applications that were coming in. And believe me, it wasn't paper. We had already, you know, gone into the digital, you know, age, but they still had to look at every single application and call them.

• 8:12Speaker 01

  Right.

• 8:13Speaker 04

  They don't have to do that anymore. So, they are actually more valuable on the line where they're coaching, where they're making sure, you know, Wendy's, speed of service, Panera, you know, quality. I mean, it's, it's all there. So, we want our managers...

• 8:25Speaker 00

  Joel guy's back again. Everybody red alert.

• 8:28Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 8:29Speaker 01

  He's asking for a free Frosty again.

• 8:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, always.

• 8:32Speaker 00

  There's that pain in the ass again.

• 8:33Speaker 04

  Always, always. So, getting that manager where they should be, which is managing the business. And then in the background, they're getting all of these applicants that are fitting exactly what they need because we can say, we only want days. We need you from this time to this time.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  Right.

• 8:49Speaker 04

  And we need, you know, this. And so, we scale it and it actually goes to exactly the applicants we need to then schedule exactly what we need. So, it's less time filtering through all of the people that don't fit what you need.

• 9:04Speaker 01

  And the hiring manager doesn't have to do any scheduling whatsoever. They just, they let the system know when they're open and next thing you know, they have interviews on their calendar.

• 9:14Speaker 04

  Yes, for exactly what they need.

• 9:16Speaker 01

  So, for that, and then on the candidate side, because candidates generally, they're really good at ghosting or forgetting and that kind of stuff. Are you doing like follow-ups to be able to like nudge them and say, hey, don't forget? And maybe, I don't know, maybe you'll give them a free Frosty if they come in or a Red Bull?

• 9:32Speaker 04

  We actually do.

• 9:33Speaker 01

  See?

• 9:33Speaker 04

  Yeah. Yep. Because everybody likes food, especially, you know, cookies and Frosties.

• 9:37Speaker 00

  I keep telling Chad that.

• 9:38Speaker 04

  Yeah. He doesn't, yeah. Well, come on over. We can take care of you. So, yes, we actually do several follow-ups with our benefits because we are different. And then we say, hey, we can't wait to see you, you know, in 24 hours. We can't wait to see you in an hour. So, they're constantly getting those reminders. So, and telling them how great we are, why they want to come.

• 10:00Speaker 01

  How's that help though? Has that, I mean, has that helped?

• 10:03Speaker 04

  The ghosting is down tremendously.

• 10:05Speaker 01

  Yeah?

• 10:06Speaker 04

  Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I'll just say that, you know, we have some data, but I think the data isn't even as bad as what it used to be because our managers wouldn't put that they were ghosted, you know. So, it's up to our managers to get that data. But you can figure, you know, if you have five people, a couple of years ago, we were getting ghosted by four, four out of five people. And that's also a big time suck.

• 10:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 10:32Speaker 04

  From...

• 10:33Speaker 00

  Time is money, Chad.

• 10:34Speaker 01

  And money is time. Yes.

• 10:36Speaker 04

  I've heard that.

• 10:38Speaker 01

  I sure you have.

• 10:38Speaker 04

  And so, it gets them, you know, exactly what they want. And we do all these follow-ups and it's easy. And that's what people want. It's that instant gratification of, I have an interview tomorrow.

• 10:50Speaker 00

  You're saving time on both ends, the job seeker and the management side. Now, let's talk about the money you're saving on job posting.

• 10:57Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 10:58Speaker 00

  What's going on there?

• 10:59Speaker 04

  Well, so right out of the pandemic, we were spending, Indeed is not cheap. Indeed, it is very expensive.

• 11:07Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 11:08Speaker 04

  And.

• 11:09Speaker 00

  What you did there.

• 11:09Speaker 04

  You like that?

• 11:10Speaker 00

  I see what you did there.

• 11:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, indeed. Yes. And, you know, Indeed, for us, used to be quantity over quality.

• 11:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:20Speaker 04

  Now, what we're able to do because of Paradox, putting in all of the parameters of what I want. You know, if I need only night people, what's going to screen out all those day people? It's not going to give me the people that I don't need. It's only going to focus on those that I do need. So we have a budget of about $1,500 per restaurant location per year, you know, to actually advertise for just crew. Okay?

• 11:44Speaker 00

  1,500?

• 11:46Speaker 04

  $1,500 per location per year, times.

• 11:50Speaker 00

  That's, but that's not a lot of money for a location.

• 11:53Speaker 04

  Well, but also, you have to understand that Paradox has evergreen ads. So we have evergreen ads, which are free to us.

• 12:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:02Speaker 04

  Always up with Paradox. So we don't pay for those.

• 12:05Speaker 00

  On your website?

• 12:06Speaker 04

  Nope. It's actually always, if you go and search, you know, a Wendy's, Panera Noodles company, there's what's called an evergreen ad.

• 12:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:15Speaker 04

  We don't pay for that. So the $1,500 goes much further than what you think it does. Because we constantly have that as a Google search, or as a search for, for the evergreen ads. So $1,500 per location per year.

• 12:31Speaker 00

  So is this Google traffic on Google for Jobs, or is this Indeed traffic?

• 12:35Speaker 04

  Both. Both. Because it is posted actually in Indeed and Zip and some of the other ones that, that are pulling in people.

• 12:43Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 12:44Speaker 04

  So I can tell you, we're not even spending $1,500 a year per location. We're actually about, last year, about 30% of our total budget was used because we didn't need it.

• 12:58Speaker 00

  So, sorry, are these organically posted jobs on these sites that you're avoiding paying for them on a yearly basis?

• 13:08Speaker 04

  I guess, so are you talking about the evergreen ads?

• 13:12Speaker 00

  The ads on, like, yes, ads, cook. I assume cook, line cook is a job that's posted all the time.

• 13:20Speaker 04

  Right.

• 13:21Speaker 00

  But how, I don't want to get in the weeds on this too much.

• 13:24Speaker 01

  You already are.

• 13:25Speaker 04

  Yeah. I can see you're intrigued about this because it is.

• 13:28Speaker 00

  I'm sure a lot of people are just saying, I'd love to know how I can only spend $1,500 a year on Indeed.

• 13:33Speaker 04

  Per location.

• 13:35Speaker 00

  Okay, I have one location.

• 13:36Speaker 04

  Right.

• 13:37Speaker 00

  So tell me how to do that.

• 13:38Speaker 04

  Yeah. So Paradox, we have ads, actually through Paradox, and we open up our ads, our jobs. And so that job, I can actually toggle open, or I can toggle it closed. Okay? If it is open, that is what's called an evergreen ad. So that means that it is always searchable. It is always available, and I don't pay for that.

• 14:00Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 14:01Speaker 04

  Okay? I know you're in disbelief right now, right?

• 14:05Speaker 00

  I'm fine. We can move on from this. Uh, maybe it's a side conversation, but Chad, save us from this.

• 14:11Speaker 04

  Yeah. Go down the weeds.

• 14:13Speaker 00

  Ask a separate question.

• 14:14Speaker 04

  Right.

• 14:15Speaker 01

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• 14:36Speaker 01

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• 15:14Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 15:14Speaker 01

  Right? So you have a day shift, you know, night shift, what have you. But if you get a bunch of day shifters in, they're still going into your database, right? So you still have them for later. Are you remarketing to those individuals when you do have like a day shift open, or something? So you don't have to go back to Indeed or what have you?

• 15:33Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 15:33Speaker 01

  How, what are you using for that? Is there a CRM? Is there, what are you using for that?

• 15:38Speaker 04

  So through Paradox, we can actually do a search, and we can actually look for those candidates.

• 15:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:43Speaker 04

  Yeah. And so we can, we can put it out, you know, typically, we're always looking for night people, right? Late night Wendy's, you know, that's usually the revolving door.

• 15:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:52Speaker 04

  And so if we do have candidates that are applying for daytime positions, then, you know, we can actually look at the conversation, and if everything else looks good, they have, you know, 20 to 30 hours. Each company can actually specify exactly what questions they ask. So our questions may be different than someone else's question.

• 16:13Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 16:13Speaker 04

  Right? So we ask how many hours, what days are you available? You know, we ask a slew of questions. And if someone does say that, you know, they want to work for us and everything fits, we can actually do a re-invite, and we can do that all through Paradox.

• 16:27Speaker 01

  And if you have multiple locations, I would assume that you do in certain areas, and somebody applied for a Wendy's position, and you've got a Panera position open, I mean, you can, you can use that same candidate database.

• 16:41Speaker 04

  We could. It's typically for us, we find that it's a different candidate.

• 16:45Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 16:46Speaker 04

  Yeah. Uh, it's a different candidate applies to a Wendy's, to a Panera, to a Noodles.

• 16:49Speaker 01

  Really?

• 16:50Speaker 04

  It's quite interesting. Yeah. I, I had, I opened up a Wendy's, and three months later, I opened up a Noodles in the exact same town.

• 16:58Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 16:59Speaker 04

  100% different.

• 17:00Speaker 01

  So are the, the demographics different, or just the, the, what the people are looking for? What's, what's different? Really?

• 17:07Speaker 04

  Both. Yeah. Yeah. Both. You know, I think burger places, people think of, you know, flipping, flipping burgers.

• 17:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:15Speaker 04

  And I say, we're more, you know, educated than that now. We steer them on both sides. We have a clamshell. You don't have to flip your burger anymore.

• 17:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:23Speaker 04

  It's that simple.

• 17:24Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 17:24Speaker 04

  So I think that, you know, there's a certain person that maybe has worked in, you know, QSR, that wants to continue to work in QSR, as opposed to a Noodles and Company or a Panera, which is, it's just a different, you know, clientele. It's a different applicant. It's, it's amazing how different they are. It surprised me, actually.

• 17:46Speaker 01

  So since they're so different, do you, from a competitor standpoint, instead of looking at other, you know, fast food companies or what have you, are you looking at other hospitality companies that might actually fit those personas? Do you target those types of competitors? Who, who, who do you mainly target that's outside of your industry?

• 18:07Speaker 04

  Well, you know, it's our, it's our competitors, you know? So if it's a Wendy's, I'm going to go to other, you know, QSRs.

• 18:15Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 18:15Speaker 04

  And if it's a Panera, you know, I'm going to go to a Chipotle. I'm going to go to, you know, other, you know, competitors, and same with Noodles. So.

• 18:23Speaker 01

  So not really hospitality, as in going like to the, the local hotels or something of that nature?

• 18:29Speaker 04

  No.

• 18:29Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 18:29Speaker 04

  No. No. Um, food is just its own, own nature, I guess. Either you love food or you hate food.

• 18:37Speaker 01

  Joel loves food.

• 18:37Speaker 04

  There's no, well, to consume it or eat it, right? You know, to work there, I should say. So, um, so we really haven't had a lot of success with getting applicants or managers from other industries.

• 18:50Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 18:51Speaker 04

  Mm hmm. So it's kind of a, it's a little niche. Yeah.

• 18:54Speaker 00

  By the way, Chad, when we're looking at the decline of Western civilization, we don't flip burgers anymore.

• 18:59Speaker 04

  We do. We steer them on both sides.

• 19:01Speaker 00

  Coincidence? I don't know.

• 19:03Speaker 01

  We've talked about flipping.

• 19:04Speaker 00

  I don't know. I don't know.

• 19:07Speaker 00

  You offer daily pay, it looks like, to all of your employees. What kind of impact has that had on competing with other restaurants, being a more appealing? Like, what has that meant to the business?

• 19:20Speaker 04

  Huge. Huge. It, when we decided to go with daily pay, we looked at several different companies, and one of the things we liked is that we could actually load our hours, and our employees can, you know, work today, get paid tomorrow, is what we, we tell them. And initially, we thought it was going to be used as an emergency fund. Unfortunately, it's turned into an ATM. And so our employees use it often. And, you know, some part of me says, ooh, I don't, I don't like that. But I was talking to a crew member, and I said, Ginni, do you use daily pay? And he said, yeah, that's the reason why I'm here. And I said, so daily pay is the reason why you're here?

• 20:04Speaker 04

  And he said, yeah, because I needed money immediately. The place across the street was hiring, but my first check wasn't going to be for three months, three weeks. Here, you told me I could work today, get paid tomorrow.

• 20:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:16Speaker 04

  That's why I'm here. Okay. All right. Good to know. And I've had other people tell me that even if they don't use it, they like it as.

• 20:26Speaker 00

  Safety net.

• 20:26Speaker 04

  A safety net. I had a cute kid tell me, he said, oh yeah, I used it because my prom date ate more than I thought she was going to. And I went to the bathroom and did an instant, because you can do an instant.

• 20:38Speaker 01

  She chose lobster.

• 20:40Speaker 04

  She, yeah. Darn her. I thought she was going to do salad. So, um, so he actually went to the bathroom and did an instant, because he knew, he looked at how much it was going to be, and he knew he didn't have enough in his account. And I just, I was like, well, that's an emergency. Absolutely. You don't want your prom date.

• 20:56Speaker 00

  You don't, you don't lose face. That's what makes this job fun, is those stories.

• 21:00Speaker 04

  I love it.

• 21:01Speaker 00

  That saving some dude's ass on.

• 21:03Speaker 04

  Right.

• 21:05Speaker 00

  You mentioned jumping into the conversational AI piece in 2021.

• 21:10Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 21:10Speaker 00

  You said so relatively early, relatively early. A lot of companies are still debating, should we do this or shouldn't we? What, what would you tell that company that's on the fence? Or we don't know how to sell it to the executives. What do you tell those folks to get them off the fence?

• 21:27Speaker 04

  Well, if they're my competitors, I tell them, don't do it.

• 21:29Speaker 00

  Yeah. You tell them there's a newspaper at the office.

• 21:32Speaker 04

  Go, go, this doesn't work. But.

• 21:35Speaker 00

  QR codes on billboard.

• 21:36Speaker 04

  Exactly, exactly. Yeah, as you're driving by.

• 21:40Speaker 00

  So that your best friend and a not competitive industry.

• 21:42Speaker 04

  Okay. Then, all right, my best friend, I would tell them that it has increased our quality of applicants. Because again, you can put so many different filters into each ad that it really does hone in on exactly who would be the right person for that job. And once they come and talk to us, we know that they're going to love us. So we know that, you know, it's, I had, I'm a Gen Xer, you know, as we kind of talked about before, and this whole technology thing. And, and I'm a, I'm a human connection type of person.

• 22:24Speaker 04

  But I said this to someone and it kind of surprised me when I said it, but I still stand behind it. AI interview scheduling has made me more human with my conversations. Because we're not needing to talk to 50 people to find that one. I can have the system find that one and have a great conversation with that one and onboard that one person during the interview process. So that they love us, we love them, and that's going to be a great employee. As opposed to doing interview after interview after interview. You know how it is, you go after a while.

• 23:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:05Speaker 04

  And try to find that diamond in the rough. I'm finding it because the system already found it for me. And then I just, you know, hook them in, you know, with how great we are.

• 23:16Speaker 00

  Become more human through technology.

• 23:17Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 23:18Speaker 00

  Like, sum that up.

• 23:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, 100%.

• 23:20Speaker 01

  More time, more time to be empathetic and love thy neighbor.

• 23:24Speaker 04

  Yeah. Kumbaya.

• 23:26Speaker 01

  We, we've talked a lot about technology. What would you like to see? What, what is next for you? I'm sure you've already been thinking about it.

• 23:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 23:34Speaker 01

  What's next? Maybe chat onboarding? I mean, what is it?

• 23:39Speaker 04

  So we are, Paradox knows us quite well because we say yes to everything. I am, my team is all millennials and, you know, I'm the mom of the group.

• 23:54Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 23:55Speaker 04

  And they think they have to convince me on going to technology. But I'm actually the one saying, bring it, bring it. Need to, we need to move faster. We need to, to stay ahead of this. And so we have actually gone, we were one of the first ones to do conversational AI with Paradox.

• 24:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:13Speaker 04

  We did that a couple of years ago. It was great. You load in your handbook. So if someone says, I'm pregnant, do you still hire me? Sam's not going, I don't compute. Sam's saying, yeah, absolutely. We, you know, when we follow this and it's giving great responses.

• 24:27Speaker 01

  FAQ data.

• 24:28Speaker 04

  Yeah, great responses. Or what's your dress code? Sometimes you'll see that in the string and it actually will tell them what our dress code is. And so we've done that, we've done the analytics. We're actually just about to launch employee communications through Paradox.

• 24:43Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 24:44Speaker 04

  Because for our industry, my managers have emails, but that 16 year old kid that only works Friday nights doesn't.

• 24:52Speaker 01

  Nope.

• 24:52Speaker 04

  So how do I make sure that they know about the benefits? How do I make sure that they know about these great things? Cause I can't communicate with them.

• 25:00Speaker 00

  It's commercial time.

• 25:02Speaker 05

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• 25:46Speaker 05

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• 26:13Speaker 05

  It's showtime.

• 26:15Speaker 04

  And I can put a poster, beautiful poster on the wall and it's wallpaper.

• 26:22Speaker 01

  It's not reading that.

• 26:23Speaker 04

  They don't look at them.

• 26:24Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 26:25Speaker 04

  And so with the employee communicate, I will actually have the ability to text my entire team and to put information in front of them about the hero fund, about things that they can get from us. You know, we pay them to actually do their schoolwork for an hour each shift. We pay them to sit in the dining room. Do all the kids know about this? We also pay them $300 if they, a semester if they get all As. We pay them $200 if they get As and Bs. We pay them $100 if they get all Bs. You know, do they know about these things?

• 26:58Speaker 01

  Right.

• 26:58Speaker 04

  That's always my worry. We have so many great things, but if they don't know about them, then what's the use?

• 27:04Speaker 01

  Well, and it's digestible because you're sending it out in chunks.

• 27:08Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 27:09Speaker 01

  And if you look at one of those posters, it's just all noise.

• 27:13Speaker 04

  It's too much.

• 27:14Speaker 01

  It's all noise.

• 27:15Speaker 04

  Right, right. Exactly. And let's face it, I sound like my grandmother when I say it this way. The kids of today would rather look at their phone with a text than read my beautiful, big poster that I spent a lot of time making.

• 27:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, unless it's ACDC, I don't want a poster in my place.

• 27:32Speaker 04

  Right. Right.

• 27:34Speaker 00

  Farrah Fawcett, remember that poster that everyone?

• 27:36Speaker 04

  With the red bathing suit? My brother had one of those.

• 27:39Speaker 01

  Everybody, everybody had one of those.

• 27:41Speaker 04

  I had Duran Duran.

• 27:43Speaker 00

  You, you love self-expression. I read it on your website somewhere. And, and who loves self-expression more than the kids?

• 27:52Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 27:52Speaker 00

  You just mentioned in your comment there. How do you guys approach social media? Whether that's letting the employees post about stuff they're doing on the job? Or whether you're advertising specific messaging? Like, are you using social media to connect with them and how so?

• 28:08Speaker 04

  Yes, yes. So we have our own Facebook page for Hammer employees and it's fun. Actually, one of our Wendy's just posted yesterday. They dropped a bunch of butter packets and they went all over and, you know, and people were laughing about it. Cause it was funny, right?

• 28:29Speaker 00

  That's hysterical.

• 28:30Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 28:30Speaker 00

  Butter pack.

• 28:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, butter packets everywhere. And so, you know, I always respond and I said, not the right way to take inventory.

• 28:39Speaker 00

  Sorry, which restaurant has butter packs? You have Wendy's, Panera? Okay, Wendy's.

• 28:43Speaker 04

  Wendy's, yeah, yeah.

• 28:45Speaker 00

  Oh, the, uh.

• 28:46Speaker 04

  Breakfast.

• 28:47Speaker 00

  Okay, yeah.

• 28:48Speaker 04

  You want to go get some though?

• 28:49Speaker 00

  Continue.

• 28:50Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 28:51Speaker 00

  Continue, but you started butter packets.

• 28:53Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. Actually Panera has them too for bagels.

• 28:55Speaker 00

  Okay, that, okay.

• 28:57Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 28:57Speaker 00

  I was thinking Panera would.

• 28:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, they both do. So, so by this restaurant posting this, you know, that we all are human.

• 29:05Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 29:05Speaker 04

  And we want to feel like a family and we're in 11 different states. And so this really brings us together and we post different things and we always comment. And, you know, I commented, you know, not the right way to do it.

• 29:17Speaker 00

  This is a private.

• 29:18Speaker 04

  It is, it's a private group.

• 29:20Speaker 00

  What about public facing?

• 29:21Speaker 04

  Yeah, we, we have, we do have, we're on all social media. We have our marketing person that actually puts out, you know, content on everything. And we do have, you know, some people that will post things. We have to be careful because of proprietary, you know, things with Wendy's and Panera.

• 29:39Speaker 00

  So this is a marketing person. Are they putting job content as well as, hey, we got a new sandwich?

• 29:47Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 29:48Speaker 00

  How do they balance that?

• 29:49Speaker 04

  Yeah, not as much job content because in all honesty, we don't need it. I know that sounds really strange when I say that, but.

• 29:57Speaker 00

  Cocky too.

• 29:58Speaker 04

  I, I am kind of cocky.

• 29:59Speaker 00

  You've earned it.

• 30:00Speaker 04

  I am, yeah, I am.

• 30:01Speaker 01

  You're an Xer.

• 30:02Speaker 04

  Exactly, exactly. We drank out of the hose, we know what to do. So it's, it's mostly just about the things that we've done in our communities because we really do believe that we support our communities. We have this line, it's, we want everyone to live a life they love. You know, it sounds corny, but we truly do want them to live a life they love. And by doing that is really helping out their communities with, you know, if your Boy Scouts come and we're, we're going to give you 30% of all the proceeds for, you know, the day that you've picked, you know?

• 30:36Speaker 00

  30%?

• 30:37Speaker 04

  That's a.

• 30:37Speaker 00

  Very generous.

• 30:38Speaker 04

  That's very big.

• 30:40Speaker 00

  You're unique in that if I apply to a job, I go directly to the conversational AI.

• 30:47Speaker 04

  Correct.

• 30:48Speaker 00

  As opposed to the traditional, here's a job posting, click apply, go to the 45 minute process of giving us your application. Was that a conversation internally? Was that a challenge to make that move? Was it like, we're here for it, ATS, the whole thing? Let's go. Cause it's not a typical user or job seeker behavior to look at, apply and then, oh, let's chat.

• 31:12Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. Coming out of the pandemic, you know, 2020, 2021 were tough, especially in Wendy's because Wendy's increased sales because drive-throughs, right? And no one wanted to work, you know, because also the government was offering, you know, up to $600 per week, you know, to not work. So we weren't getting applicants. And so when we actually looked into Paradox and, you know, I started to really dig into it, I said, we're going to go full force. We're going to do this. And again, it took us from that 13 day down to that four days. And then we even said, we're going to go faster. And

• 31:55Speaker 04

  so we started to narrow down even some of our questions. And we really do feel that, you know, we're well-staffed today because of what we've done, because we've been innovative in what we've done.

• 32:09Speaker 00

  How is the business looking at automation? It came to me as you were saying that. I know Wendy's corporate or a bigger entity started doing AI ordering and you would drive up and order my local fast food place. There's a kiosk, I put in what I want, they bring it out. How do you guys look at automation and balancing that with employees? And what's sort of your, do you take a side on that? Is it a balance? Where do you guys fall?

• 32:36Speaker 04

  There's a balance. Some people go out to eat for the human interaction, right?

• 32:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:43Speaker 04

  Especially, you know, the older group, they want to talk to someone. They want to ask them about the ingredients. They want to have that interaction. That's why they're, that's why they didn't go through the drive-through, right? And so, but there's also this huge community of rapid pickup where, you know, they order it online, they come in and they pick up their bag and they leave.

• 33:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 33:03Speaker 04

  And so we are able to satisfy everyone, you know?

• 33:09Speaker 06

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• 33:39Speaker 04

  So we still have cashiers in all of our restaurants. We have kiosks, we have rapid pickup, we have drive-throughs. And the rapid pickup sector is actually growing and growing and growing because people are so busy. And so they can order online and they can come in and just pick it up and leave and, you know, and eat in their car or at their office or take it home. People aren't eating in restaurants.

• 34:07Speaker 00

  For the foreseeable future, there's a human cooking and preparing what's going into that bag.

• 34:12Speaker 04

  Yes, absolutely. There's been no talk of automation in our kitchens. Yeah. There's some things that have been streamlined tremendously.

• 34:21Speaker 00

  No flipping thing.

• 34:23Speaker 04

  Searing on both sides. It's a lot faster.

• 34:25Speaker 00

  I had no idea that was.

• 34:26Speaker 04

  It actually lifts up because it knows how long it will take that burger to cook. Yeah, even I could do it.

• 34:33Speaker 01

  Technology.

• 34:33Speaker 04

  Which means a lot. You don't want me to.

• 34:35Speaker 00

  That's not how we did it with the McDill tea days.

• 34:40Speaker 01

  Hot side, hot.

• 34:41Speaker 00

  So you're, so you're kiosk ordering, that option, that kind of automation, you're cool with? The cooking of the food, the talking to grandma, that's, that's a human being for the foreseeable future?

• 34:53Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 34:53Speaker 01

  Sounds like you've got like a hybrid approach.

• 34:56Speaker 04

  It is.

• 34:56Speaker 01

  That's going on in, in the stores.

• 34:58Speaker 00

  Customer focused.

• 34:59Speaker 01

  In this, in the store. Well, it's customer focused because you have your own option on what I do. You can go through the drive-through, you can order the fast pickup, you can use the kiosk if you want to, or you can talk to somebody at the register. Yeah, at the register. So how do you do that on the, on the recruiting side? How you do that on the talent side? Is there more than one option? Or is there literally just kind of like, here's the flow? Can I eject and talk to, you know, a human being? Or do I get the kiosk?

• 35:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. So we actually have a TA that actually watches Paradox. And we have Paradox set up where there's certain words, you know, that will, that will flag her. So, you know, bad words obviously are in there, you know, there's other words and things like that. But she gets alerted if someone gets kind of stuck in that system.

• 35:55Speaker 01

  Gotcha.

• 35:56Speaker 04

  And/or asked to speak to a human. And then she can insert herself, or I can do it too. And I can say, this is Sonya, a real human being, and, and join that chat.

• 36:07Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 36:07Speaker 04

  Just like Sam was talking to them.

• 36:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:09Speaker 04

  But now I'm saying, I'm a human and I'm talking to you. We actually had this happen because an older gentleman had applied. And one of the first questions we ask is, are you over the age of 16?

• 36:23Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 36:24Speaker 04

  And he put, no. And then he went through and then, then he got our standard, I'm sorry, but you know, we, your age, you know, isn't meeting our requirement. He said, I'm 67 years old. Am I too old for you? He didn't realize that he clicked no on the 16.

• 36:42Speaker 01

  Gotcha.

• 36:42Speaker 04

  So our TA said, Sonya, what do you want me to do with this? I jumped in and I said, hey, John, this is Sonya Brewer. You know, he didn't realize he was actually talking to a bot, which I think that's great.

• 36:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:56Speaker 04

  I think that's great.

• 36:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:58Speaker 04

  But he was confused. And so I jumped in and I just said, hey, John, you know, let's jump on a call. So I called him and super sweet guy. And I said, it's, you know, I said, if you're like me, it's kind of like lost in space, you know, danger will rob in danger, you know, because I knew he knew that show and I knew he would know that I was older.

• 37:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:21Speaker 04

  So I wouldn't.

• 37:22Speaker 01

  There was a connection there. There's a connection.

• 37:24Speaker 00

  Yes. Thank God you didn't say, yes, you're too old. That might've caused some problems.

• 37:29Speaker 04

  Yeah. And that's the good thing is that by loading our handbook into the system, it knows our policies and it knows all of that. So it's not going to answer incorrectly. So poor John just didn't understand he was talking to a bot and he didn't understand that he actually answered the first question.

• 37:48Speaker 00

  Did he get the job or not?

• 37:49Speaker 04

  Yes, we hired.

• 37:50Speaker 01

  It's a happy ending. A happy ending.

• 37:52Speaker 00

  Happy ending at Wendy's Panera or Noodle?

• 37:55Speaker 04

  That was a Panera.

• 37:56Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 37:57Speaker 04

  That was a Panera.

• 37:57Speaker 00

  So you've, you've mentioned that you're the guinea pig of technology.

• 38:01Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 38:01Speaker 00

  You'll try almost anything. What are you looking forward to in the next six to 12 months in tech of trying, of testing out?

• 38:10Speaker 04

  It's going to sound strange when I say this, bringing more human into the tech. So we talked about ghosting and our CEO is Mike Hammer. It's actually the founder's son. And he's quite dynamic. If you sit and listen to him talk, you just fall in love with him and the business. So as soon as someone applies, I want this video to pop up and Mike Hammer going, you need to come work for us. And have him actually talk to that person and really engage them and get them to fall in love with us because right now it's a link. And some people press the link and some people don't. But I want that

• 38:53Speaker 04

  video of him saying, you know, almost like Uncle Sam, you know, we want you to really get them engaged and get them excited about it. So it's technology with a human.

• 39:06Speaker 01

  And it sets a culture.

• 39:08Speaker 04

  It's all about culture.

• 39:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:10Speaker 04

  Yeah. It's that hammerfied, you know, culture.

• 39:13Speaker 01

  Hammerfied hammer time.

• 39:14Speaker 04

  That's right. We have lots of, lots of funny little things.

• 39:18Speaker 00

  Thanks for hanging out with us.

• 39:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, it was fun.

• 39:20Speaker 00

  Guys, that was Sonya Brewer, SVP of HR at Hammer Enterprises. This is the Chad and Cheese Podcast. I'm Joel Cheesman, he's Chad Sowash. This has been the AI Series. And we out.

• 39:33Speaker 01

  We out.

• 39:34Speaker 07

  Wow. Look at you. You made it through an entire episode of the Chad and Cheese Podcast. Or maybe you cheated and fast forwarded to the end. Either way, there's no doubt you wish you had that time back. Valuable time you could have used to buy a nutritious meal at Taco Bell. Enjoy a pour of your favorite whiskey. Or just watch big booty Latinas and bugfights on TikTok. No, you hung out with these two chuckleheads instead. Now go take a shower and wash off all the guilt. But save some soap because you'll be back.

• 40:13Speaker 07

  Like an awful train wreck, you can't look away. And like Chad's favorite Western, you can't quit them either. We out.