Indeed's Pricing Black Box

This week, the gang dives into the corporate chaos defining the start of 2026. The crew pulls no punches on the Workday leadership shakeup, questioning the optics of massive layoffs paired with multimillion-dollar executive payouts as a co-founder returns to the helm for the fourth time. While the market panic over AI monetization sends SaaS stocks tumbling, the hosts dissect whether we’re seeing a true tech revolution or just a "knee-jerk" reaction to the high costs of artificial intelligence. The conversation shifts to the "digital battlefield" of job searching, where Indeed’s new ChatGPT integration is met with heavy skepticism—framed less as a game-changer and more as a "lazy" attempt to capture upstream traffic. Beyond the apps, a legal storm is brewing as Eightfold AI and Workday face high-stakes lawsuits over "black-box" screening tools, with plaintiffs arguing these algorithms should be regulated like credit scores. From France's aggressive move to ditch US tech like Zoom and Teams in favor of digital sovereignty to a sobering look at how wealth disparity and narrative manipulation keep the masses distracted, this episode is a raw, unfiltered deep dive into the crumbling status quo of HR and global tech. Chapters 00:00 - Super Bowl Celebrations and Personal Reflections 03:00 - Cultural Impact of Halftime Shows 06:02 - Market Reactions and Speculation in Tech 09:03 - Advertising Trends and Consumer Perception 12:01 - Protests and Social Responsibility 15:02 - Workday's Leadership Changes and Market Challenges 30:40 - Employee Power and Corporate Accountability 33:02 - The State of Major Tech Companies 33:56 - Indeed's AI Integration and Job Market Dynamics 37:53 - The Future of Job Search with AI 42:54 - Legal Challenges in AI Hiring Practices 54:57 - Global Shifts in Tech and Workforce Dynamics

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Meet Dave. Dave's resume says he's customer centric, a point of sale systems expert, and a people leader. Reality check, Dave's resume was written by AI and AI applied to thousands of jobs while Dave was on his couch binging episodes of Jackass all day.

• 0:20Speaker 00

  How can you insert trust back into your hiring process? One word, Tatio. Tatio cuts through the BS by using real world job simulations, testing candidates so you can actually see how they perform the job before you waste a single minute interviewing or onboarding a fake. Insert trust back into your hiring process with Tatio. Check out Tatio today at T A T I O dot I O. That's T A T I O dot I O. We own keyword monster.

• 0:52Speaker 01

  And we're all like, everybody went crazy.

• 0:56Speaker 00

  We're all like, we're number one. I got work to do. Why are you telling me this stupid shit?

• 1:03Speaker 01

  Then the next question was, how many searches are done like that in AOL?

• 1:07Speaker 00

  How much money did you spend that you could have given to us?

• 1:10Speaker 01

  But I bet you went to every customer and prospect and told them that and they're like, oh, awesome. We're buckled by a job posting?

• 1:17Speaker 00

  Dude, at that point, I was still trying to teach them what the internet was. So, if they weren't on AOL, it didn't matter. Yeah.

• 1:24Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, we're so old, Chad.

• 1:31Speaker 02

  There might be a wee problem, boys.

• 1:57Speaker 01

  Oh yeah. Stop, collaborate and listen, boys and girls. This is the Chad and Cheese Podcast. I'm your co-host, Joel Gordy Howe Cheeseman.

• 2:11Speaker 00

  This is Chad, Kwele Mau, so was.

• 2:14Speaker 03

  Whoa. And this is Maureen, AKA Mo, the Seahawks saved 2026, Wiley Clough.

• 2:21Speaker 01

  And on this episode of HR's most dangerous podcast, workday says goodbye, recruit says konnichiwa, and France says fuck you. Let's do this.

• 2:35Speaker 01

  It's commercial time.

• 2:37Speaker 00

  Okay, face it. Recruitment marketing is broken. 70% of paid recruitment media goes wasted. 93% of candidates bounce off your job ads before they even apply for the job. And this is not a talent problem. No, it's not a data problem. It's a targeting and experience problem. The beauty of this is companies aren't trying to fix it. They're transforming it.

• 3:01Speaker 01

  Hell yeah.

• 3:02Speaker 00

  With up to 80% more high-quality applicants, 40% reduction in spend and 50% less recruiter time spent, they're realizing what's possible with recruitment marketing that actually works. So how'd they do it? Well, they chose Jovio, an AI-led, high-performance recruitment marketing platform built to eliminate waste and drive more results. With Jovio's AI agents, your job ads reach the right candidates while your career site, conversational AI and application process drive better candidates and conversions. What about those qualified candidates you've already bought and paid for and they're wasting away in your ATS? Well, Jovio also re-engages

• 3:45Speaker 00

  them. Want to learn more about Jovio? Cool. Just go to jovio.com. That's J-O-V-E-O.com.

• 3:53Speaker 01

  It's showtime. That's about the only French I know. And it was taught to me by my brother-in-law in French, French Canadian. Yeah. So, uh, what's up, everybody?

• 4:07Speaker 00

  Well, Mo is on cloud nine.

• 4:10Speaker 01

  Victory hangover.

• 4:11Speaker 00

  I think she's calling a win in 2026 a little early, but okay.

• 4:17Speaker 03

  You know, hey, we didn't need to be that.

• 4:19Speaker 01

  You're not wearing like the Sam Darnold jersey.

• 4:22Speaker 03

  We know what's so sad is I don't have any of my gear here at my cabin. So I didn't even get to watch the Seahawks Super Bowl rep in my company, I mean, rep in my crew, which sucked.

• 4:33Speaker 00

  But you got to watch it.

• 4:35Speaker 03

  I got to watch it. Yes. And it was amazing. In fact, I made a really huge mistake, though. I have to tell you, my siblings went down to California and actually saw it in person. And I was like, you know, it just sounds like a lot of traveling and I mean, I'm up 5K. So at least there's that. But yeah, and you get kind of like better views from the TV. But anyway, it was, it was so awesome and it did so much to heal my broken heart after the Mariners season, just to see this happen. And so good for the city of Seattle. And there's going to be a massive parade today. 750,000 people are expected.

• 5:09Speaker 00

  And yet you're here. And yet you're here.

• 5:11Speaker 03

  I'm here. I'm here because you guys, I take my commitments seriously. I take my commitments to the Chad and Cheese show very seriously. So yeah, but I'm, I'm very happy. And yes, it's a huge win for 2026.

• 5:23Speaker 00

  Setting the bar right there, right there.

• 5:26Speaker 03

  My condolences to JT.

• 5:27Speaker 01

  Perform at the halftime show, by the way.

• 5:30Speaker 00

  Dude, I was, I, it didn't start till 11:30 here. We were, we had, my buddy's apartment was full. We had hot wings. We had beer.

• 5:39Speaker 03

  You did it up.

• 5:40Speaker 00

  Oh yeah. We, we, I didn't go to bed till after three, but it was, it was.

• 5:46Speaker 00

  I love a good, I love a good, I love a good defense. And there were two good defenses out there. It was a great defense out there. It's good. And then obviously, you know, Patriots had a really good defense. And then I did, I love me some Bad Bunny. I do love me some Bad Bunny. It, Latin music always brings back great memories for me. Um, I, I lived in Panama for a little while, uh, visiting Puerto Rico, uh, spending time in Miami. I mean, great people, great food, great music. Uh, I, I, I had a blast. I loved it.

• 6:19Speaker 03

  I loved it too.

• 6:19Speaker 01

  You're not agreeing with the pushback from the, the other side on this one, I assume, Chad?

• 6:25Speaker 00

  I, I don't, I don't understand the pushback. Back. I mean, it's, it's, it's weird to me.

• 6:29Speaker 03

  So absurd.

• 6:31Speaker 01

  Hot Latinas will save the world as far as I'm concerned. I don't, I don't know how anyone can watch just the sexiness of that halftime show and not think like, this is awesome. This is amazing.

• 6:45Speaker 00

  Yeah. I, again, I don't understand it. You know, I was lucky enough, my, literally the first Puerto Rican I ever met, uh, growing up in Mansfield, Ohio and North Central Ohio, did not, was not exposed to Latin music, Latin food, Latin people. No, go figure. Why? Cause they all look like me, white people. Um, I went to A I T, which was right after basic training and one of my roommates was Peyton Pedro Bentencourt from Puerto Rico. And dude was amazing. Spent 14 weeks with him. Uh, he could barely speak English. By the time he was done, uh, I spoke a little bit of Spanish. He spoke a lot more English because there are a lot more English speakers

• 7:27Speaker 00

  around him. But, uh, we had a, we had a, we had a great time, had a great time. And then obviously, like I said, spending time down in Panama, um, the culture, the food. I mean, I just loved it. So, I mean, that kind of music in that halftime show. And if you've, have you ever been to Puerto Rico?

• 7:43Speaker 03

  I have.

• 7:44Speaker 00

  Oh, it's beautiful. I mean, it's cool. And just as long as, you know, there's no hurricanes or shit like that. It's old San Juan is fucking amazing. I mean, it was, it was really cool. It was really cool. So I just think those, a lot of those people who are pushing back, um, number one, they don't understand that, you know, more culture is good. Number one. And number two, the NFL is a fucking private company. What are they trying to do? They're trying to expand base and you're looking at 600 million Spanish speakers.

• 8:14Speaker 01

  Demographics is destiny, right?

• 8:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:17Speaker 01

  Demographics is destiny. And that's where the world's going.

• 8:19Speaker 03

  It's too easy.

• 8:21Speaker 01

  I, if this whole Epstein shit hasn't, has taught me anything, it's that, you know, there's a, there's a line in Wall Street where Gordon Gekko says, look, you're either on the inside or the outside. And I'm convinced there's a lot of rich fuckers on the inside that want everyone on the Outside to hate each other, to fight each other, to argue each other.

• 8:40Speaker 03

  It's a distraction.

• 8:40Speaker 01

  Just be, just be, just look over here. Don't look at the shit that we're doing. So I'm just kind of over fight everybody, political division. Like it's all, it's all jazz hands to the rich to stay rich and do apparently really bad shit to people.

• 8:57Speaker 03

  Really bad shit.

• 8:59Speaker 01

  That's what Epstein has taught me. It's just, it's gross, obviously, but there's, there's clearly a bucket of people that we, we don't relate to. That are either making the rules, doing all the shit and we're not part of that. They want us to keep fighting. If you, if you had two yachts and one guy was, you know, black and one was white, I bet there's no racism. It's two rich people. Like that's the difference between like them and us.

• 9:25Speaker 01

  And thank you for coming to my TED talk, everybody. Appreciate it. Appreciate it. How about the commercials? Did you like, guys like any commercials?

• 9:32Speaker 03

  It was too loud at the party where I was, was to hear a single commercial, but I did see the one before. Yeah, I saw some, yeah, it was, it was raucous party, but yeah, I need to actually go, that's on my to do list is to go and actually re-watch those commercials. Because I just missed out on all of them. The one that I did see was some like crypto one that had the lyrics to everybody from Backstreet. And I was like, holding myself back from singing, which was kind of funny, but like other than that, I was like, this is the most worthless. What are they trying to get from the, like, I didn't understand it. Maybe it just went over my head.

• 10:04Speaker 01

  Like a karaoke.

• 10:05Speaker 03

  But every millennial was like, oh.

• 10:06Speaker 01

  I'm aged out of the karaoke. It was not for me. I was like, the music's too low. I don't get it. And my wife's like, no, it's supposed to be, uh, so people can sing. It's karaoke. I'm like, I didn't get it.

• 10:18Speaker 03

  I didn't get it either. But I was, I was actually moved to do just that. I was moved to sing and I did keep it together because it was a little, it was, you know, was loud, but it wasn't that loud, right?

• 10:30Speaker 01

  Chad, did you like the Duncan Goodwill Hunting inspired ad?

• 10:34Speaker 00

  Man, there's a lot of AI happening these days. Jesus. It was okay. I mean, it was just okay. My favorite was the Claude ad. Mo's, I think, probably favorite ads. The favorite one that I had, though, was the one where the guy is talking about trying to reconnect with his mom, I think it was, and the, you know, the chat GPT is coming back to him and saying, well, you can try X, Y, and Z. And if that doesn't work, well, we've got this 50 plus dating site where you can find, you know, older women. And that's Claude, no ads, or whatever it was. But that was fucking funny.

• 11:13Speaker 03

  So funny.

• 11:14Speaker 01

  I did like, no one liked the tight end ad, and I kind of liked it.

• 11:17Speaker 03

  I didn't see it.

• 11:18Speaker 00

  Just like looking at the butts.

• 11:19Speaker 01

  Cancer screening.

• 11:21Speaker 01

  I thought it was clever.

• 11:23Speaker 03

  That.

• 11:23Speaker 01

  No one's talking about the rippling ad, by the way, like.

• 11:26Speaker 03

  There was a rippling ad, I didn't even see it. Wow.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:30Speaker 03

  The one that got me was the Ring ad. Did you guys see the Ring ad where they're like, help find lost dogs? And I'm like, this is not at all about pulling the wool over all of our eyes.

• 11:41Speaker 00

  And it's about surveillance, right? Exactly. Like, don't tell me that you're doing that.

• 11:45Speaker 03

  Exactly. I was like, I don't, we're not, come on, we see through that.

• 11:50Speaker 01

  You guys, man, like every pair of Meta is recording everybody and every Ring camera is recording everybody. Let's save some dogs, man. That's okay.

• 11:58Speaker 00

  Oh, God. Yeah.

• 12:01Speaker 03

  So performative.

• 12:02Speaker 00

  That's how they get you. It's a slippery fucking slope. You ask Will Smith and Gene Hackman. Well, Gene Hackman's gone.

• 12:09Speaker 01

  Did the Lay's commercial with the daughter and the farmer guy, the father, get you, get you Chad or no?

• 12:15Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. Where she's planting potatoes. Yeah, it's just like, yeah, I love it, especially at the end, you know, and he pulls down his visor and there's the picture that she, it's just, that's, that's good stuff.

• 12:28Speaker 01

  You know, every young woman just wants to stick over the potato farm from their dad. You know, that's whatever.

• 12:33Speaker 03

  That is my aspiration.

• 12:34Speaker 01

  Happening all over the place.

• 12:35Speaker 03

  Actually, increasingly so. That does sound lovely. Yeah.

• 12:40Speaker 01

  Does it?

• 12:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:42Speaker 01

  Laced potatoes?

• 12:43Speaker 03

  Sure. Why not?

• 12:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, all these farms are factory farms like don't let the Red Barn and the like the Labrador fool you.

• 12:51Speaker 03

  Fair enough.

• 12:52Speaker 00

  Don't let him fool you. Okay, shout outs, Jesus.

• 12:55Speaker 01

  Can we do some, are we sure we're done with the Super Bowl? I mean, these are.

• 12:58Speaker 00

  Well, no, Mo's got a shout out.

• 12:59Speaker 03

  I mean, I'm not done with the Super Bowl. That's my shout out. The Seahawks. Come on, it's just gotta be the Seahawks. I mean, it was so awesome to see them come through and the thing that I laughed so hard at was that the kicker wasn't even the MVP and he had more points, the kicker alone, more points than the Patriots. I saw this amazing meme. Exactly. It was like Seahawks kicker, 17, Patriots, 13. And it was, I mean, incredible. So hilarious. But yeah, he's the unsung hero for sure. But yeah, I thought it was a really, actually, you know, I'm gonna go ahead and be honest on this. So I didn't think it was the most exciting football game I've ever seen, but I frankly don't care because we won. And that's all that matters. But yeah, it was.

• 13:44Speaker 00

  It matters.

• 13:45Speaker 03

  It's awesome. I'm so happy. Seattle, something to smile about. I mean, 2026, we, we gotta take what we can get. So I'm pumped.

• 13:53Speaker 01

  So Chad, you were, you were at our, our draft party, uh, not so long ago, uh, the draft that Sam Darnold was in. And I think you probably recall me having Sam at the top of my list. And it's so for me, it's a little bit of redemption that, that back six, eight years ago, whenever it was, that he would have been my first pick, that he, he's the only one of that class, Baker and Josh Allen, that has a Super Bowl appearance and a Super Bowl win. So.

• 14:21Speaker 00

  And Lamar.

• 14:21Speaker 01

  A little bit of, bit of shout out to, uh, has never been to a Super Bowl.

• 14:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:25Speaker 01

  Lamar hasn't. So he's the first one. So yeah, Sam Darnold, little shout out for me. I'll, I'll get in there.

• 14:31Speaker 00

  Sam Darnold.

• 14:33Speaker 03

  Did a great job. Doesn't let the noise get to him. Just performs, just goes out and grinds. Good dude. I love that he got cut from four teams and then just went out.

• 14:42Speaker 01

  It's bad to be a Vikings fan. It's bad to be a Vikings fan having let him go. J.J. McCarthy, everybody. That's where it's, that's where it's going.

• 14:49Speaker 00

  We talked about that earlier in the year. It was like.

• 14:54Speaker 00

  He was on fire. He was on fire. It made no sense. It made no sense. Anyway, anyway, anyway. So on to my shout out. So, so, so questions first. Joel, have you ever protested something? I mean, you know, maybe smaller servings at your local Chipotle or something?

• 15:08Speaker 01

  My earliest memory of boycotting and protest was when my mom put broccoli on my plate. And I think I, I protested for a week because of that. So that's my earliest memory of protesting. So I have a long history, Chad, of fighting the power, if you will.

• 15:24Speaker 00

  That's amazing. What about you, Mo? You're there in Seattle. I mean, you're known for the protests up in Pacific Northwest.

• 15:31Speaker 01

  Let's protest.

• 15:34Speaker 03

  I have not really been a part of it, if I'm honest. And I say that with a little bit of shame. So I'm looking forward to getting on board with some of these ideas.

• 15:43Speaker 00

  Well, I'm gonna tell you right now, some people, some people march, some people tweet, but my shout out goes to Scott Galloway. You might know him as Prof G. Love him. Let's, let's listen to what he has to say.

• 15:58Speaker 04

  Today, the Trump administration is escalating ICE enforcement. That's disappointing. Even worse news, it's with the help of corporations to provide the data, infrastructure, and logistics to make it all possible. That's why Resist and Unsubscribe is in a protest. It's an economic strike, a temporary coordinated pullback from consumer discretionary spending focused on where economic and political power is most concentrated, specifically tech and AI. That means pausing or canceling subscriptions from companies including Amazon, Apple, Google, Microsoft, Netflix, OpenAI, and more. We've built a website that makes it easy to maximize

• 16:41Speaker 04

  your impact. Go to resistandunsubscribe.com. Again, that's resistandunsubscribe.com and take action. The most radical action in a capitalist society is nonparticipation. If you agree with us, don't like and subscribe. Resist and unsubscribe.

• 17:00Speaker 04

  Thanks for your time.

• 17:01Speaker 00

  Boom. Yeah. So because of that, it is in Joey, we always say, vote with your feet, vote with your wallet, right? This is exactly what that is. You don't, you don't have to unsubscribe, but you can pause your subscriptions, right? Pause it for a few months, allow Amazon and Netflix and Claude and ChatGPT to feel a little bit of that pain. But shout out to resist and unsubscribe dot com. We don't have, we don't have to get out there in the streets. We can if we want to, but we don't have to resist and unsubscribe.

• 17:37Speaker 03

  I mean, look what happened with Disney. Remember back when Kimmel was suspended? Everybody pulled away from Disney. And actually, I was in the mid, I was about to protest. I was actually about to have the conversation with my husband, like, hey, dude, we gotta cancel Disney Plus because like our kids can survive, like however long it takes to get this guy back on the air and support a free speech. That fucking works. It worked. So we have more power and we can't forget that. We have to work together on this stuff. So I love, I love that shout out.

• 18:04Speaker 01

  Fair enough. It would behoove me as well to mention that we have an election coming up in about eight months or so. And real change is driven by voting, kids. I recommend everyone, go search whatever AI of your choice, find out where the most competitive congressional seats are coming up and give money to those candidates. If you want to make some real significant change, go campaign for those, volunteer for those campaigns. That's where some real change is definitely going to happen. I encourage you to do that. In addition to cancelling your Amazon Prime or whatever subscription.

• 18:43Speaker 00

  Which, which we have done, by the way.

• 18:45Speaker 01

  Very nice.

• 18:45Speaker 03

  We'll survive it.

• 18:46Speaker 01

  All right.

• 18:46Speaker 00

  Nice.

• 18:47Speaker 01

  All right, Chad, well, I'm gonna give a little bit of advice to the kids out there. Now, if you're a listener, you're a listener, you know, times are tough. Times are tough. And we, we, we talk about the hustle. We talk about thinking outside the box, going the extra mile. And I saw a news story this week that really, really puts it into perspective, the kind of out of the box thinking some employees and past employees and people looking for work are doing out there. I just, I was so impressed by this. Please, please take a look.

• 19:15Speaker 00

  Didn't happen here, but it is definitely getting.

• 19:17Speaker 05

  Attention. Police in Kinston say a former Little Caesar's employee is facing multiple charges after allegedly breaking back into the restaurant, not once, but twice. Kinston is about four hours east of Charlotte. Investigators say former employee Jonathan Hackett went into the store, made pizzas, sold them to customers, and kept the money.

• 19:38Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 19:39Speaker 05

  Officers didn't say whether he encountered other employees doing this during this time, but police say he did return later and tried to enter again while employees were inside, leading to a fight. Hackett was later taken to the hospital to be treated before being taken to the Lenora County Jail. He is now facing multiple felony charges.

• 19:56Speaker 01

  Oh, boy.

• 19:57Speaker 03

  It's bold.

• 20:01Speaker 01

  Look, this guy should be CEO of Caesar's, as far as I'm concerned. This guy is, he goes extra mile, he thinks creatively, like, make this guy CMO, something. But I just shout out, shout out to this out of the box, I won't call him a job seeker, but enterprising young man.

• 20:17Speaker 00

  Hustler.

• 20:18Speaker 01

  That found a way to hustle himself to some extra cash. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. He should get a free t-shirt from Chad and Cheese.

• 20:27Speaker 00

  He should. He should.

• 20:27Speaker 01

  He's got to know about that. Let's, let's check in with our friend Stephen McGrath on how to, how to do that.

• 20:34Speaker 00

  Oh, I love that guy.

• 20:35Speaker 02

  Hi, everybody. It's me, Stephen McGrath. And I'm here to tell you all about how you can grab some free stuff from ChadCheese.com. Now, you might be wondering why I'm sitting here topless. And the answer is really simple.

• 20:48Speaker 00

  What?

• 20:48Speaker 02

  Because I've not grabbed my free t-shirt from Erinapp at ChadCheese.com yet. Let me fix that.

• 20:54Speaker 00

  I think he needs more than one, apparently.

• 20:56Speaker 02

  Right. That's better. So, I'm sporting a slightly vintage model here, but of course there are new and updated designs every year. And those are super soft, breathable, and some might even say huggable.

• 21:09Speaker 00

  Of course.

• 21:10Speaker 02

  Now, what else can you get? Of course, you can get some craft beer. It's not just any regular rubbish beer. That's craft beer brought to you by the data geeks at Aspen Tech Labs. If you're not into beer too much, then, two seconds, just go and get that.

• 21:29Speaker 02

  Then you can always go for checking cock, baby.

• 21:32Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 21:32Speaker 02

  That's right. Not one, but two bottles of checking cock from the lovely people at Proven Base. Now, you're not going to get any of this stuff unless you go to Chadcheese.com forward slash free and get yours today.

• 21:47Speaker 00

  Oh, I love checking cock. I do.

• 21:50Speaker 01

  Shout out to our new whiskey bourbon sponsor, Proven Base. We appreciate it.

• 21:54Speaker 00

  He wasn't sure if it was proven base or proven base. That was funny. I like that. At Scots, you know?

• 22:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, they invented the language. No one there seems to speak it. It's crazy. It's crazy.

• 22:10Speaker 01

  All right. This has been a turbulent week for Workday, Chad. And their CEO sat down and Anil Bhushri, co-founder and current executive chair, returned as CEO, his fourth time in the role. Fourth time is the term, saying it was a pivotal moment for the company. They also disclosed plans to cut about 2% of the workforce or roughly 400 folks, following the 8% haircut from about a year ago. Oh, yeah. And the stock is down over 25% year to date. Chad, give us your hot takes on the no good rotten week at Workday.

• 22:45Speaker 00

  Man, talk about a relief pitcher. Man, that guy's, he's there. So the big question is, why did this happen? It's simple, yet not so simple. I'm going to start with the simple part. Workday's stock has been punished over the last year, falling about 44% due to investor anxiety over the software sector's ability to monetize AI. To me, this is a SaaS knee jerk reaction. Here are the numbers and what I like to call reality. Fiscal year 2025, last year, total revenue reached 8.45 bu-bu-billion USD, driven by 16.9, oh, by 17%, let's call it, increase in subscription revenue the year before.

• 23:34Speaker 00

  The year before, 2024, total revenue was 7.25 billion, right? And it was a 16.78 increase from 2023. Over the last two years, Workday revenues have been over 32% of an increase. 32%. The stock market today is not reality. It's speculation at best, and investors wet their pants because SaaS is dead and AI rules. That ain't reality today. Refer to the aforementioned sales numbers I just went over, okay? How much profit does OpenAI, Perplexity, and Gemini have right now? Where's the cricket soundbite? Yeah, they have fucking none, right?

• 24:19Speaker 00

  Here's the not so simple part. This whole thing feels like the way that the US knee jerked into EVs, electronic vehicles, right? Electric vehicles, without having charging infrastructure in place, instead of just selling the hell out of hybrid vehicles. Are hybrids great for the environment? No, but it's better than gasoline. Plus, you can't force a buyer to change its habits in the blink of an eye. So SaaS companies like Workday, Salesforce, and ServiceNow, and many others, will be the hybrids that everybody keeps buying until the infrastructure and concepts are actually proven with full AI companies, right? And by that time, Workday, Salesforce, all those companies, they're going to become these full AI companies.

• 25:04Speaker 00

  But last but not least, the optics are even worse as Workday just cut about 400 people, talking about layoffs, while giving Eshinbok, their last CEO, a $3.5 million golden parachute severance package. That's just the icing on the cake to his total comp in 2025, which was $26 million USD. Okay? So you're cutting loose 400 people. Now, I'm sure they got severance packages. Don't get me wrong, right? But come on, man, the guy earns 26 million a year and then gets a $3.5 million kicker? It's just bad optics all around.

• 25:43Speaker 00

  So it's really hard on Workday because the market is treating them like shit, but it's all speculation, and Eshinbok gets kicked to the curb because you got all these fucking bedwetters that are out there.

• 26:03Speaker 01

  It's this is totally market driven. I can't believe what's happening to Salesforce, ServiceNow, Workday, Microsoft. I mean, the fear, uncertainty and doubt on these companies is past emotional and algorithm. I mean, this is like COVID, holy hell, is this the end of world of the times kind of dropping these stocks. I mean, you can, you can, we can debate about whether it's real or not. If AI is gonna, you know, if Claude is gonna do all this shit for a company, I think we can all probably end up somewhere like, no, that isn't gonna be the future. Maybe it's somewhere in the middle, but it's definitely not the end of Salesforce. I don't think anyone thinks that. But the market has said, we're out. Like, we're the

• 26:48Speaker 01

  hell, we're out of this. And the only narrative that I can find that makes sense for these companies is they need to prove that they can integrate AI to restart growth for the future, like long-term future. All these companies that reported are doing great. They're doing great, but the market's saying like, we don't believe in the future. The future is screwed for you guys. And if you, I think if you don't have a CEO who's, let's call them colorful, a Benioff, the CEO at ServiceNow looks like every, every cocaine dealer in every 80s, you know, action movie. Elon, of course, is Elon. Like, if you can't tell a story that people

• 27:29Speaker 01

  will listen to and sort of be intrigued by, land on the Mars, robots, like whatever, if you can't get some diversion and attention, and clearly Workday was not doing that with, with co-CEOs, who's the CEO? I don't, he's not, he's not in the public eye. They brought this guy in, the stock went down. So clearly, the market has said, okay, we're not convinced you guys can integrate AI. We're not convinced that this new four-time CEO is the guy that's gonna take you into that future, and they're getting hammered for it in the marketplace. The layoffs, I think, are just sort of a

• 28:03Speaker 01

  You know, par for the course. Yeah, we have to lay off some people. Let's pick a number. One or two. Let's go to fuck it.

• 28:10Speaker 00

  They're playing to the market.

• 28:12Speaker 01

  What's that?

• 28:13Speaker 00

  They're playing to the market. I mean, because when everybody.

• 28:15Speaker 01

  The market's saying we don't believe it or we don't care. So what's next? Like layoffs more people?

• 28:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's crazy.

• 28:21Speaker 01

  Probably. The companies I've heard mention of companies that are SaaS that sort of get AI in a way that we like is like a Databricks. Zoom is doing pretty well still. So the companies are going to have to really hard to to improve the narrative and where they're going in the future. I think we all agree like that the Paradox acquisition, the the companies that they brought in for AI will help them get to where they need to go. But the market doesn't seem to be buying that either. This just seems like it's just rotten all around until these companies can prove to the market that we know AI and we're going to integrate it and grow it away. A rate that we we hope that we will.

• 28:59Speaker 03

  None of this is good news for workers either. And I think it's also interesting when you're looking at these layoffs to see actually who was impacted at the organization. And in this case, it sounds like it was a lot of customer support. We already know that Workday doesn't give a damn about user experience because you have to re-put your fucking whole resume back into the system after you upload your resume. But they're also signaling that they don't necessarily care about customer experience the way that they should in that situation. In my estimation, it's like, have you guys had experiences with only like automated customer support? Because I have, and it is so freaking miserable. And I I hate that we're moving in this direction as a society to having these agentic experiences, these touchless experiences.

• 29:43Speaker 03

  It's completely inhuman experiences. And it just, to me, it signals that, of course, again, and we always knew this, right? Shareholder value creation is the only thing they care about. They don't care about employees. They don't care about optics. They're paying their executives insane pay packages. Like, this is this is how it's going. But when it comes to the humans impacted, I think that signals a little bit more what they care about as well. And I will say one thing that I was I was heartened by was the layoff did not make mention of AI as the reason behind what happened at Workday. Because so many of them are awash AI washing their layoffs and just saying it to signal to investors that they're, you know, on the up and up with AI, which is total bullshit. But yeah, it's it's super concerning. I think we're going to see a lot more layoffs.

• 30:28Speaker 03

  I think people are going to be in a world of hurt. Like you said, it feels like a complete catastrophic meltdown about to happen. And I just hope that people are going into it with eyes wide open and reading the room because it's it's rough.

• 30:41Speaker 01

  Well, I love the perspective of employees because who's going to go to work for any of these companies?

• 30:45Speaker 03

  Right.

• 30:46Speaker 01

  I mean, the stock options aren't exactly a lure to get you there. Who's going to stay at these companies if their options are worth shit? Like this, this could become a, you know, a vicious cycle of we can't recruit anybody and everyone's leaving and like, how are they gonna, you know, sort of adhere to the marketplace demands of get better at AI when we can't keep people and we can't recruit?

• 31:05Speaker 03

  Right. Right. And I feel like employees are getting increasingly vocal. I know the other day, Marc Benioff allegedly said Wired did broke a story on this, actually that Marc Benioff was at an international gathering of people from Salesforce and he stood up, welcomed the international team and then made a joke, hey, ICE is watching you guys. And it's like, oh my God, what on, are you kidding me? And so there is a huge contingent of Salesforce employees who are up in arms about this and they're all over Mark to, you know, make an apology and to, you know, withdraw from any sort of engagement with ICE. And it's, I guess, I say this because of the resistant unsubscribe being stuck in my head. Like, people do actually have power. If all of those people at Salesforce

• 31:48Speaker 03

  walked out the door in protest, they'd be fucked. Like, I mean, I just, I feel like we need to remember that we have that. And it's something that they can't take away from us. So yeah, it might be a little short term pain. And yeah, it's risky. But I'm sorry, you're probably on a layoff list anyway, at this point. So no one's safe.

• 32:09Speaker 01

  By the way, Amazon, Amazon's in the shitter too. I mean, right in your backyard, Mo. I mean, these are two huge companies, stable companies that are falling off a cliff.

• 32:19Speaker 03

  It's scary.

• 32:20Speaker 00

  And back to Workday, it's, what the fuck? It's just, it's not real. The revenues are there, the subscriptions are there, they're, they're, it's like Elon talking about back in 2015 that they're gonna have fucking robo taxis on, on the streets next year, right? It was all fucking bullshit. So it's like you have to have an Elixir salesman as a CEO, who's, who's literally just spinning the bullshit, right? That's all they do is just spin the bullshit as opposed to what reality is. And that drives me crazy because to be quite frank, Workday didn't do anything wrong here. They are making fucking money.

• 32:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:59Speaker 00

  They're buying AI companies, but wait a minute, they're not flipping into AI monetization fast enough. Fuck you.

• 33:09Speaker 01

  I mean, Palantir CEO, Slideshow Bob, you know, that's another like large, larger than life character.

• 33:15Speaker 00

  Yeah. Has anyone noticed this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Dude, that guy.

• 33:20Speaker 03

  Slideshow Bob, definitely.

• 33:23Speaker 01

  Hey, boys and girls, it's Joel Cheeseman here from the Chad and Cheese Podcast. Guys, I've seen pretty much every AI recruiting tool out there. I give my time and money to a very small few, and I'm here to tell you that I'm an investor in Alex AI because this tech actually delivers. Look, if you're still drowning in automated resume slop, ghosting candidates and wasting hours on first round screens, it's time to hire with Alex. Alex is the AI recruiter that's actually solid, which means it doesn't sound like a robot from a 1984 sci-fi flick.

• 33:56Speaker 01

  Alex interviews candidates on video or phone, asks smart follow-ups, takes killer notes and surfaces the best ones so your team can focus on hiring top talent instead of chasing ghosts. If you're scaling a team and tired of the same old pain, go check out Alex right now at alex.com. That's A-L-E-X.com and tell them Joel sent you. And right now, you can Get a free copy of the book by Alex founder Aaron Wang titled The 10x Recruiter. Just go to alex.com/cheese. That's A L E X dot com forward slash C H E E S E. That's right. A free book on the principles of AI and talent acquisition. And all you need to do is head to alex.com/cheese right now.

• 34:40Speaker 01

  Guys, alex.com. Interview everyone. Hire the best. All right, guys, if you like what you've heard, please give us a like, a follow, share us with your closest 100 friends. Recruit Holdings earnings revealed their HR tech segment, including Indeed and Glassdoor, saw an 8.9% revenue increase in their earnings report this week, driven by strong performance in America and Europe. A little bit more on Indeed, they launched an app with ChatGPT this week, allowing users to access job recommendations directly from the AI interface. This integration marks a shift in Indeed's partnership with OpenAI, moving from backend collaboration to a user facing product.

• 35:23Speaker 01

  Chad, your thoughts on the news out of Tokyo and Austin this week?

• 35:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, Indeed's doing exactly what they plan to do. When jobs go down, prices go up, right? Because you can't go off of, you can't go off the transaction. You can't go off the transaction. So it's, uh, it's, it's interesting. And this is what you might as well call black box pricing. And this is what it looks like. The big message is that if you're an enterprise hiring company and you're using Indeed in this market when there are tons of candidates available and you're not engaging candidates that you've already bought and paid for in your CRM and/or ATS, just fucking fire yourself. What are you, what are you good for, for God's sakes? It's like in CMO who paid millions for leads and never gave them to the salespeople.

• 36:13Speaker 00

  I mean, you're fucking fired. So we've been talking about this for, for a while with their, with their new engineering of sorts, their financial engineering of sorts. It's working. I mean, and good for them, but enterprise employee, enterprise companies need to understand they're getting fucked over.

• 36:33Speaker 01

  And 80% of them don't care, apparently.

• 36:36Speaker 00

  They don't.

• 36:36Speaker 01

  20% would.

• 36:37Speaker 00

  They don't.

• 36:38Speaker 01

  Indeed knew that 80%, you'll just keep taking it as we give it to you, no matter what.

• 36:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. The OpenAI stuff, I mean, it feels so lazy. It feels much like when Google anointed Indeed with all the top search engine results, starting back in the late aughts.

• 36:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:58Speaker 00

  There was better content out there. There was more pure content out there. There were trusted sources that were out there, but they just went straight to Indeed because it was easy. It was one site, right? They could have easily just went directly to the corporate sites where the jobs were actually at, but they didn't do that. So this feels lazy. It feels easy. But I thought, okay, let me go to ChatGPT. Let me play around a little bit. I didn't go to the app, but I went into inside of ChatGPT and I did a search in Indiana for a sales position. And it, I received suggestions from Indeed, ZipRecruiter and BuiltIn. I thought it was interesting that I got built in. So I responded back and I said, why aren't you serving jobs up from actual hiring companies?

• 37:41Speaker 00

  Indeed and ZipRecruiter force people to share their information. And then ChatGPT said this back to me, which really surprised me. You're right to push on that. Job boards like Indeed and ZipRecruiter are lead gen machines. They monetize candidate data. If you want jobs from actual hiring companies, the move is to go straight to the employer career pages and bypass the aggregators and bypass the aggregators. So and then it says, here are real companies hiring, here are real companies hiring sales roles in Indiana right now, applied directly on their sites. No job board gatekeeping.

• 38:19Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 38:21Speaker 00

  And then they had links to the actual career sites. And I thought, well, wow, you know, what's, that's interesting. That interaction tells me a lot. ChatGPT knows that their jobs from specific companies. It knows the links from the career sites.

• 38:38Speaker 00

  Then I was, I was on LinkedIn because I was kind of playing around to see what, what people were saying about it. And Ben Groves did a really good post on this. He's the founder over at Apply Call. And then I saw a comment from our friend, Sam Fitzroy, founder and CEO of Dall-E. He's also a Chat and Cheese sponsor. Sam writes, Quote, well, you have OpenAI taken the Indeed CRO Maggie Hulsey about AI innovation in job search. Yes, the chief revenue officer of Indeed, leading the charge here on innovation. Definitely not revenue. I think Sam's being a little sarcastic there. Anyways, back to the

• 39:18Speaker 00

  comment. It's not surprising that their ideas lack imagination, which is the key ingredient needed to harness the power and opportunity of AI. What a waste for job seekers, end quote. And Sam's right on all counts. This isn't just lazy. It's unimaginative. But what is it? It's a way for Indeed, but also for OpenAI and other powerful models to train off these data sets and interactions. So I don't know if this is a smart move for Indeed or not.

• 39:48Speaker 00

  Was it the chat?

• 39:51Speaker 01

  Chad, I was hoping, I was hoping that you would, would give us, give us a history lesson. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna try to use it as you would. You were, you were at OCC.

• 40:02Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 40:02Speaker 01

  When the company announced that they were a sponsor of AOL. And correct me if I'm wrong, but when you search a job on AOL, OCC would come up. Or maybe it was Monster. Sorry, Monster.

• 40:15Speaker 00

  Keyword monster.

• 40:16Speaker 01

  Keyword monster. And then the jobs would come up. This is what I thought of when Indeed said, we're going to be integrated with ChatGPT. Because I still think ChatGPT is the new Netscape. I think it's, it's not, it's not long for this world. So we may have a good laugh someday, saying that what a stupid thing Indeed did to partner with ChatGPT. I appreciate, I appreciate your job search. I did similarly. They actually served me up Simply Hired, which I thought was pretty interesting. I did, I did the same on Gemini and Grok. I know you guys hate me for that, but that's okay. I like my porn, my Nazi porn bars, just like every good American.

• 40:53Speaker 03

  You and your AI glasses from Meta.

• 40:55Speaker 01

  So Grok was, and Gemini was pretty good. It gave me career events that were scheduled in my area. It was pretty, it was good. And you got to think, it's going to be super easy for Gemini to plug in Google for job stuff. And just be like, do this way better than ChatGPT and Indeed do. So will people search for jobs this way? Sure. I still think.

• 41:22Speaker 01

  If people can automate the job search thing, they're gonna do it. They're gonna have agents, whether it's apply, you know, AI apply or lazy apply. I just, I don't know how, what kind of growth we're gonna see in actual human beings searching for jobs. It's like, release the agents, let me, let it do it 24/7 and let it apply for me. So, in that world, this indeed collaboration doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot. The agents are gonna find those jobs anyway. And what, what I'm seeing from AI companies or agent, agents companies do this, they go directly to the job site. They don't do the whole job board LinkedIn thing. They find the real company and the, the ATS, which is a bad future.

• 42:04Speaker 03

  It's a risk for them.

• 42:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, they should. That's a bad future for the, uh, for the job sites. So, yeah.

• 42:09Speaker 03

  Bye bye revenue.

• 42:10Speaker 01

  I just thought it was kind of funny. It reminded me of your, your commentary about Monster and AOL and how cool that was back in the day. This may have a, this may have a similar narrative in 10 years.

• 42:20Speaker 00

  We had a whole meeting for that one thing. And I remember we all came into one room. And this is right when we did the transition from OCC and Monster Board to monster.com. And, uh, everybody's like, then there was one slide and it had AOL and it had the search bar and it had Monster in it. And it was like, we own keyword Monster. And we're all like.

• 42:43Speaker 01

  And everybody went crazy.

• 42:46Speaker 00

  We're all like.

• 42:47Speaker 01

  We're number one.

• 42:49Speaker 00

  I got work to do. Why are you telling me this stupid shit?

• 42:53Speaker 01

  And then the next question was, how many searches are done like that in AOL?

• 42:56Speaker 00

  Yeah. How much money did you spend that you could have given to us?

• 43:01Speaker 01

  But I bet you went to every customer and prospect and told them that. And they're like, oh, awesome. We're, we'll buy a job posting?

• 43:07Speaker 00

  Dude, at that point, I was still trying to teach them what the internet was. So, you know, if they weren't on AOL, it didn't matter. Yeah.

• 43:14Speaker 01

  Oh my God, we're so old, Chad.

• 43:21Speaker 01

  Let's hear from someone younger about this whole integration with ChatGPT. Selling this.

• 43:26Speaker 03

  I mean, I am definitely not buying this, but I have to say, my, my favorite thing. That Anthropic has ever done was shade chat GPT shade open AI so hard. Did you guys see that commercial? It dropped before the Super Bowl. It was epic. They basically were like, we, they had this whole scene play out. And then they were like, at the end of the scene, this woman in the scene started doing an ad. And then they basically came in and were like, hey, we're not going to do this to you. And the funniest part was they didn't even have to name open AI. It was obviously very implied. And if anyone was familiar with any of these AI tools, you knew exactly what was happening. This is awesome moment. And Sam Altman went and like blew up on the internet and had all these tweets and he sounded like such an idiot. It was unreal.

• 44:10Speaker 03

  It's like, do these people have zero PR training or media training? Like, he didn't even have to address it. It just, it blew my mind. But yeah, I mean, I, I'm not bullish on that tool whatsoever in any way, shape or form, for all the reasons that you've described. I mean, it's just, and I also, I'm not bullish on open AI being one of the winners out of all of this.

• 44:32Speaker 01

  It sounds like we're saying there's a chance.

• 44:36Speaker 03

  One in a million, right?

• 44:40Speaker 01

  All right, next up, guys, we have, we all know about the eightfold lawsuit, but that may just be the tip of the iceberg. According to our friends at classaction.org, attorneys are investigating potential class action lawsuits against companies using AI for job screening and interviews, including some of the names that we know and love, HireVue, Workday, Greenhouse Lever and Ashby, to name a few. They believe these companies may be violating the Fair Credit Reporting Act, or FICRA, as the kids call it, by providing consumer reports about job applicants without proper procedures. Looks like the sharks smell blood to me, Chad. What are your, what are your thoughts?

• 45:19Speaker 00

  So we taped an episode earlier this week that's going to come out next week that focuses on class action suits and we're not gonna, I'm gonna tease you about it, but you get, this is.

• 45:32Speaker 00

  It's with an organization that literally leads class action lawsuits and they said, this is the tip of the iceberg. So get ready, kids. I've been talking to Julie a lot about this and really the lack of regulation leads to litigation. So when there's no rules, there's no guardrails, and that's exactly what this administration is calling for, people are going to want answers, which means they're going to get them in court. And this ain't corporation against corporation, it's the little guys. So they'll be banding together to create class action suits. Now, on the vendor side, this comes straight from an article Julie wrote entitled Eightfold's Lawsuit. She writes, quote, "There are too

• 46:15Speaker 00

  many vendors influencing decision-making in hiring without transparency, without the opportunity for correction, and with the expectation that they are beyond being held accountable." End quote. So there are three things here for all of you to think about and to also plan for. Number one, candidates need to have transparency and control of their data. That's the big issue in this lawsuit. Black box is a problem unless you can prove realtime analytics and more importantly, realtime audits. Yes, realtime audits, we've got the data, or at least pre-audit signals that shows whether you're going off course or not, you can do this. And then obviously, vendors are going to be held accountable.

• 47:00Speaker 00

  So as you feel and think that everything's okay, don't do that. Always think that you're under the microscope. And again, what this all means, lack of regulation leads to litigation, which, I mean, leads to my favorite four top song, Get Ready.

• 47:21Speaker 01

  Oh, is that the song, Get Ready?

• 47:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:23Speaker 03

  It was like, I'm waiting, man.

• 47:25Speaker 01

  Another old man reference there.

• 47:27Speaker 00

  Love me some Motown, man. Love me some Motown.

• 47:31Speaker 01

  I think there's a gag reflex when we talk about lawsuits and legal shit and people think, well, it doesn't impact me, or oh, that's just LinkedIn suing somebody else.

• 47:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:44Speaker 01

  I mean, this- This has the chance of being huge.

• 47:52Speaker 01

  Think, so I won't ruin the interview, but think about your credit report. It tells your, you know, your job, late on payments, you know, every, everyone knows credit karma or probably seen a credit report. What they are arguing is that all these AI tools that are ranking candidates in an A, like with AI, they're doing in a way that is blind, black box to the consumer. So the case is basically saying you're using someone's data without their knowledge and maybe putting shit in there that isn't true or stuff that is irrelevant or whatever. And the consumer has no way to see what is in that quote unquote consumer report. In this case, candidate report, I guess.

• 48:35Speaker 01

  So who in our space isn't doing some sort of AI?

• 48:40Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 48:40Speaker 01

  Matching, grading, something.

• 48:43Speaker 03

  That's what I was gonna ask.

• 48:44Speaker 01

  Right? So, so, so now you have a situation where not only is every, just about every company in our space doing this, but everyone who's a customer of these businesses is using this stuff. How many applicants do you think these companies have had over the last five years?

• 49:02Speaker 03

  I mean, workday alone was hundreds of millions.

• 49:05Speaker 00

  Well, workday billions.

• 49:07Speaker 03

  Hundreds of millions for workdays, Case, yeah.

• 49:10Speaker 01

  If, if they, if they market this thing well enough and there's millions of people in a class action lawsuit against all these companies that we, you know, know and talk about on the show, it could be a really, really big deal. I mean.

• 49:23Speaker 03

  Everyone could get like 35 cents each.

• 49:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, there might be like a credit karma thing where like, I'm gonna see what every AI company, and do you have to standardize it because all the reports have to say the same, same thing?

• 49:35Speaker 03

  Right.

• 49:35Speaker 01

  Does every company have to publish what their algorithm is and what they're looking at? If that's the case, then it's like, everyone has to, you know, let, I know you love this one, Gamo. Open the kimono, right? And show everybody what they're doing.

• 49:48Speaker 03

  I trained you better, man.

• 49:49Speaker 01

  I know.

• 49:49Speaker 03

  Don't learn.

• 49:50Speaker 01

  I didn't plan on that, Mo, but it happened.

• 49:52Speaker 03

  That's why I'm here, Joel.

• 49:53Speaker 01

  It happened, Mo, it happened. So, so. So it's like, whose algorithm is shit, whose is actually kind of good. And then so it's like the, you know, the water on the beach goes out. We see who has a bathing suit on. I'll use that one as well. No. Like, this could be a huge meteorite.

• 50:07Speaker 03

  Didn't know that one.

• 50:08Speaker 01

  Crash into our industry. So.

• 50:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:11Speaker 01

  You should don't. If you're listening, don't put, don't shelve this as just, oh, another lawsuit that doesn't impact me. Like, this could be very, very interesting as it plays out. I don't think this is just a pay a few million bucks and make it go away. I think this could be a really, really big consumer play in America and have ripple effects all over the globe.

• 50:31Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 50:32Speaker 03

  I mean, I'm here for it. I don't want someone putting a dossier together about me without my knowledge. I mean, like you said, with credit reports, you can go and check it out. You see what's on there. You can go and contest things. You can take action. And this blind sort of situation is just, it's deeply unfair to applicants in a job market that's already hot trash. So like, we need some protections and we need regulations. And this will, I believe, very firmly that if we don't do this, we're going to continue to see this type of huge class action. I wanted to kind of ask you guys.

• 51:03Speaker 03

  I mean, at this point, like you sort of hinted at, Joel, I mean, do any companies in the space not use AI? Like, will it include, will this class action be against all companies with any sort of hiring?

• 51:15Speaker 00

  I don't think it's just AI. Yeah, I don't think it's just AI. I mean, you can go out and scrape data without AI. Um, and then in rich profiles, people have been doing that for years. Uh, the thing is now, I think AI literally is, is scaring the shit out of people. And they're like, oh shit, are they, are they AIing us? And, and then they're, then.

• 51:39Speaker 03

  Such a good point.

• 51:40Speaker 00

  Wait a minute, there are processes that they have in place that if they do use AI per se, um, this could be incredibly impactful. And we're talking about actually impacting somebody's life because there could be invalid data in their quote unquote dossier or their profile.

• 51:55Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 51:56Speaker 01

  It is not a stretch to say, if I apply for a mortgage or a credit card and I don't get it, that the company is required to tell me why.

• 52:04Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 52:05Speaker 01

  If I don't get a job because of whatever this algorithm or screening thing is telling, telling you, then that's something wrong. Like, I should be able to see, is there something wrong in it? Can I, can I, you know, can I refute something?

• 52:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 52:19Speaker 01

  None of that happens today. And let's, it makes sense that people should be able to do that. Like, some of the most impactful lawsuits are like, people go, oh, yeah, they should be able to see what this algorithm is telling the employer about them if they're not getting a job.

• 52:31Speaker 03

  That totally makes sense. When it, when it's systematized like this, I think it just heightens the concern for everybody. I mean, of course, since forever, we haven't been able to find out why we weren't picked for a job in most cases, right? We get ghosted, or they give us some bullshit excuse for why we didn't get it. But in this case, when you have all these systems that are just baking in the bias and pulling things from who knows what, I mean, you just literally don't know. So, yeah, I mean, it's, I'm glad, I'm glad that they're taking action.

• 52:59Speaker 01

  This is all falling on their heads potentially as they're dealing with probably the same software valuation problems that Workday and Salesforce and everybody else is doing. I mean, if you think those companies are down 30, 40%, what do you think eightfold's value is to their investors?

• 53:13Speaker 03

  Brutalized. Yeah. It's rough times. Like you said, it's kind of apocalyptic right now.

• 53:19Speaker 01

  Rough times. I'm gonna tie up my kimono.

• 53:21Speaker 00

  Zombies.

• 53:21Speaker 03

  Oh, God. Oh, God.

• 53:24Speaker 00

  Please do. Please do.

• 53:28Speaker 00

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• 54:12Speaker 00

  hiring game? Head over to veritone.com/hire and see what all the buzz is about. That's veritone.com/hire. So Ash out.

• 54:25Speaker 01

  That escalated quickly. Vive la France. Did I say that right?

• 54:29Speaker 03

  Hell, yeah.

• 54:30Speaker 00

  I think so.

• 54:30Speaker 03

  Hell, yeah.

• 54:31Speaker 01

  France announced that its 2.5 million civil servants will phase out US video conferencing tools like Zoom, Microsoft Teams, Cisco Webex, and go to meeting by 2027, switching to the domestic alternative, Bizio. The move aims to boost digital sovereignty, security and confidentiality of government communications. They also raided the X offices while the UK also investigates. Grok, Chad, you know a little bit about dumping the US. What are your thoughts?

• 55:04Speaker 00

  Oh, that hit home. We asked for this, dude. When you fuck with your customers, they stop buying your shit, right? And where does your GDP go when countries stop buying from you, right?

• 55:20Speaker 00

  Capitalism in the US is broken. We've been talking about that for a while now. It needs to be fixed. It desperately needs to be fixed. But this, this is about as far away from capitalism as you can go. When you start pissing off your customers, Zoom, Team, defense contracts, losing billions, not buying, you know, F-35s or whatever, you know, military instruments that we actually send their way, tourism, not buying flights, not buying hotels, local tourists, you know, areas. I mean, all the money that's being lost, bourbon, hell, fricking Jim Beam shut down their main facility. Plus.

• 56:00Speaker 01

  Everyone's resisting and unsubscribing.

• 56:02Speaker 00

  It's fucking crazy. Yeah.

• 56:05Speaker 03

  I don't resist and unsubscribe from alcohol.

• 56:07Speaker 00

  Plus, as you're talking about, France and Spain are going after social media platforms. That's billions of dollars. Now, we have built the strongest country in the world off the cash flow of these other nations because they buy our shit. We're not talking about, we don't sell cheap Timu shit, right? We sell the really expensive shit. We sell fucking F-35s and, you know, fucking.

• 56:39Speaker 00

  Big companies, right? And we do the big shit. So when countries say, we're not going to buy from you anymore, we're doing this to ourselves. And that fucking pisses me off. That's not capitalism.

• 56:51Speaker 03

  It hurts American workers too. I mean, that's gonna have a down a lot.

• 56:56Speaker 03

  It'll be very painful, very painful time.

• 57:00Speaker 01

  Bastards. I mean,

• 57:04Speaker 01

  I think this all sounds good and makes great headlines.

• 57:07Speaker 03

  Sure does.

• 57:08Speaker 01

  I quote Warren Buffett, who says, countries that do well, what they do well, should keep doing the things they do well and let other countries do what they do well, keep doing that. Like, we're not gonna make scotch in America. We're not gonna like, we're not gonna make high fashion.

• 57:22Speaker 00

  We're not allowed.

• 57:23Speaker 01

  Toledo. I mean, look, I don't know this visio company. Maybe they're great.

• 57:30Speaker 03

  Maybe it's not half bad, you don't know.

• 57:31Speaker 01

  I know, I know historically, like, the Yugo wasn't a great car. I know Nokia doesn't make phones anymore. So if it works, great. I just, I think it's, it's just very wishful thinking that we can just throw out all the American tech, which I would argue is top tier in the world for like a homemade Joey Bag of Donuts, you know, Teams meeting copycat.

• 57:55Speaker 03

  I don't know. Try it.

• 57:56Speaker 01

  Maybe it'll work. I think it's, I think it's a stretch.

• 58:00Speaker 01

  I didn't own a Le Carre in the eighties because it was a piece of shit.

• 58:03Speaker 00

  If you remember Kia was a piece of shit, right? When it first came out from South Korea, you take a look at Kia now, they put out some really nice fucking cars. So we're seeing the globe catching up to us. You take a look at China. They say, we say that they stole our, our IP. No, we actually gave it to them because we wanted millions and millions of people to buy our shit over there, right? So to say that we have the best shit in the world. That's the gap has closed, if not being it's been closing. So I'm not sure. I think they're just gonna go to China for some of that shit.

• 58:40Speaker 01

  All right. A lot of this shit sounds good.

• 58:42Speaker 00

  It sucks.

• 58:43Speaker 01

  The whole like, the whole second tier countries are gonna unite together. That all sounds good. It's fascinating. It's hard to do.

• 58:49Speaker 03

  But not only are they doing all this stuff, guys, did you know they're also like actively trying to recruit laid off and burnt out corporate American workers?

• 58:57Speaker 00

  Oh, they are. Yeah.

• 58:58Speaker 03

  Yes, it is amazing. I did a video on how Denmark has this program. It went completely viral. Denmark is literally asking people to come over because they are burnt out. They're like, they created this whole program called the, wait, the Friend Recruiter Program. There we go. I was on the tip of the tongue. Friend Recruiter Program. And they had even a playlist that was like from burnout to balance. And they were shading corporate America and our work culture and pulling people over. Now, of course, there are only so many positions that they actually will actively recruit people and give foreign visas because they want, you know, of course, those to be specialized positions that they can't recruit from within a foreign, but they're shading us. So they're dumping our stuff. They're trying to pilfer our workers and pull them over.

• 59:42Speaker 03

  There's this corporate drain, brain drain coming from corporate America. And I think the shade is very much deserved and I kind of love to see it. I gotta admit it. And not only that, but what's happening with the Grok situation? I mean, we're embedding it in our freaking Department of War. And they're actually investigating and raiding offices and holding their feet to the fucking fire for what they have done, the harmful images that they have made possible. They're complicit in everything, if not proactively making it possible. Right? And it's just, it's refreshing to see a country give a damn and actually do the right thing. So let's hope that that creates a wildfire effect and that we see more accountability.

• 1:00:26Speaker 03

  Because I'm done reading about these horrific things and seeing absolutely positively nothing happen. So go Europe.

• 1:00:36Speaker 01

  Guys, you know what never fails in quality?

• 1:00:40Speaker 00

  Your dad jokes.

• 1:00:41Speaker 01

  My dad jokes. It's my dad jokes. Accepted all over the world, by the way. Accepted all over the world. Guys, Valentine's Day is coming up. Uh, let's feel some love, shall we?

• 1:00:53Speaker 03

  Favorite holiday.

• 1:00:54Speaker 01

  What is Cupid's favorite band? What is Cupid's favorite band?

• 1:01:02Speaker 01

  Kiss.

• 1:01:03Speaker 00

  Oh, okay.

• 1:01:05Speaker 03

  That was like, that was cute. I approve that one. It's Mo approved.

• 1:01:11Speaker 01

  Resist and unsubscribe, everybody. We out.

• 1:01:15Speaker 05

  Thank you for listening to, what's it called? A podcast. The Chad. The cheese. Brilliant. They talk about recruiting. They talk about technology. But most of all, they talk about nothing. Just a lot of shout outs of people you don't even know. And yet, you're listening. It's incredible. And, not one word about cheese. Not one. Cheddar. Blue. Nacho. Pepper jack. Swiss. So many cheeses. And not one word. So weird. Anywho, be sure to subscribe today on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. That way, you won't miss an episode.

• 1:01:59Speaker 05

  And, while you're at it, visit www.chadcheese.com. Just don't expect to find any recipes for grilled cheese. It's so weird. We out.