Pod Insights The Chad & Cheese Podcast Eightfold Gets Served About this episode This week on The Chad & Cheese Podcast, AI finally does what it does best: get companies sued.
Eightfold gets dragged into the legal spotlight over secret AI scores, mystery data enrichment, and a definition of “responsible AI” that seems to change depending on which slide deck you’re watching.
Meanwhile, Randstad says everything’s awesome while 40% of workers quietly grab a second job to keep the lights on. Cool cool cool. Totally normal economy.
Then it’s off to Davos, where billionaire AI CEOs confidently explain why white-collar jobs are disappearing, physical labor is the future, and—don’t worry—the government will totally figure it out. The pie will grow. Your slice? TBD.
Layer in Amazon and UPS layoffs, CEOs detachment from reality, and enough coded language to power a dystopian bingo card—and you’ve got an episode that asks the real question:
If AI is so smart… why is everything getting dumber?
🎙️ Equal parts HR reckoning, tech side-eye, and group therapy. You’re gonna want a drink for this one.
Transcript 0:00 Speaker 00 Meet Dave. Dave's resume says he's customer centric, a point of sale systems expert, and a people leader. Reality check, Dave's resume was written by AI and AI applied to thousands of jobs while Dave was on his couch binging episodes of Jackass all day.
0:20 Speaker 00 How can you insert trust back into your hiring process? One word, Tatio. Tatio cuts through the BS by using real world job simulations, testing candidates so you can actually see how they perform the job before you waste a single minute interviewing or onboarding a fake. Insert trust back into your hiring process with Tatio. Check out Tatio today at T A T I O dot I O. That's T A T I O dot I O. Forty percent of workers already grabbed a second job just to survive. Everything is awesome. JT, what the hell is going on out there?
1:00 Speaker 01 Well, I just want some of what the employers are smoking. Can you get me some of that? Someone? I'm up in the mountains.
1:11 Speaker 02 What the hell does that mean?
1:15 Speaker 03 Hide your kids, lock the doors. You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Soash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where hers. Complete with breaking news, brash opinion, and loads of snark. Buckle up, boys and girls. It's time for the Chad and Cheese Podcast.
1:40 Speaker 00 Ooh, kids, welcome to the Chad and Cheese Podcast. I'm Chad, unintended consequence of Soash.
1:47 Speaker 01 I'm JT. There are no friends on Powder Days, O'Donnell. And I'm Maureen, AKA Mo. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, Wiley Clough.
1:58 Speaker 00 And you might be, and you might be. And on this week's show, Eightfold Gets Served, Ron Stodd just isn't listening. Davos hot takes from Palantir and Anthropic. Plus, we have an HR dive double dumper. This is gonna be a good one, guys.
2:15 Speaker 04 It's commercial time.
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2:59 Speaker 00 high-performance recruitment marketing platform built to eliminate waste and drive more results. With Jovio's AI agents, your job ads reach the right candidates while your career site, conversational AI, and application process drive better candidates and conversions. What about those qualified candidates you've already bought and paid for and they're wasting away in your ATS? Well, Jovio also reengages them. Wanna learn more about Jovio? Cool. Just go to jovio.com. That's J-O-V-E-O dot com. It's showtime.
3:36 Speaker 00 All right. What you been up to? You got, you got powder, you got cabins, you're both in cabins.
3:41 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah. I'm in, I'm in my cabin that I haven't left. And Monday, that big storm that came through. Two feet of powder. I skied in two feet of powder in Sunday River, Maine. Single best skiing day of my life.
3:57 Speaker 05 Wow.
3:58 Speaker 00 You say two feet of powder?
4:00 Speaker 01 Two feet. It was insane. Above your knees. And because it was so many people couldn't get here, it wasn't crowded. It no lift lines. I mean, I was junk like by two o'clock junk had to stop because my legs were like shaking.
4:15 Speaker 00 Oh, lies. I can hear that's what Leven's saying right now because he does not want to believe you.
4:20 Speaker 01 It was so good. So good. And if you know, you know, if you're out there, anybody that was out there, you know, it was amazing. Come hang with me in Sunday River. The conditions are perfect.
4:29 Speaker 05 Oh, man. I'm more of an afra gal myself. That sounds cool, though.
4:34 Speaker 01 Well, we do that too, girl. There's no, there's no shortage of afra here at Shepherd's Ridge. Yeah, yeah.
4:41 Speaker 00 So, uh, Mo, apparently you don't have two feet of, uh, powder, although you are at your cabin. Yeah. Are you, are you locked away or what, what's going on?
4:51 Speaker 05 It's been great. I mean, I've never been more happy to be part of a temperate climate here. You know, we don't get snowed in for days on end. And let me tell you, when I have even a single solitary half inch of snow in this area, they shut everything down. Like there's no school, there are no ju- nothing. And it's just like, I go absolutely insane within several hours. So I'm, I'm happy to be where I am. Yeah. And, and, you know, isolated by the border with Canada. Everything's pretty, pretty chill here. I'm in.
5:18 Speaker 00 Your, your next door neighbor, Canada. My next door neighbor, Spain.
5:22 Speaker 05 Love them.
5:22 Speaker 00 Uh, it's been, it's been a little rainy, little windy, but uh, we're, we're saying no, saying no snow, no snow. So, uh, uh, I don't have the powder JT, although I do not have the snow either, which I'm, I'm, I'm fine with.
5:38 Speaker 01 You're fine with. No shoveling for you. It's all good. It's all good.
5:42 Speaker 00 I am done with the shoveling. I'm done with what I'm not done with though is that's right JT. This is, this is the season. This is the season. So talk to us about the season, the season that matters most.
5:56 Speaker 01 Yeah. So it's, I mean, Super Bowl season, baby.
5:59 Speaker 00 Yes, it is.
6:00 Speaker 01 All right. Like, everybody hates us. I get it. I'm gonna get the hate. I get that you hate the Pats, but I'm here. My shout out is to the Vrabel May relationship. I just love how this man coaches as a career coach. Watch the footage. The fact that he's the first player to go to a Super Bowl on the same team that he's now taking to the Super Bowl as a coach. His style is so endearing. It was nothing like that when it was the Brady Belichick era. Nothing, right? Like this, you can't wait to watch. And I'm wearing my Bs. And if you know, you know, if you history lesson, 2004 Red Sox, the year they broke the curse. These guys would call themselves on national television, the bunch of idiots. They would get on and
6:43 Speaker 01 talk about how they couldn't even believe that they were doing this and they would compliment each other and they were just loving on each other. Like, everybody was so happy. Same vibe right now. So no matter what happens, just to see this vibe and experience it. Like, I'm, all I'm doing right now on, on social media is just watching anything I can about it because they're so cute. So, you know.
7:05 Speaker 00 I gotta love it. I mean, I, one of the reasons why I didn't like the Pats in the first place is because Tom Brady, he's a Michigan grad. He's a Michigan grad. I'm Ohio State, although.
7:14 Speaker 01 Never forget.
7:15 Speaker 00 Well, that, well, nobody likes Belichick. He's just an asshole. But Vrabel, Ohio State Buckeye. Travion Henderson, they're, one of their new rookie running backs who's really torn it up this year. Ohio State Buckeye. So yeah, I love it. But I also love me some Seahawks because the number one, that's right, the number one wide receiver in the league is Jackson Smith in Jigba from the Ohio State University. So shout out, what you got?
7:48 Speaker 05 Oh yeah, it's gonna be the Seahawks, obviously. I mean, it can't not be. I am so excited. I am more of a baseball girl. Like, if I could have had, like, my pick between the two, I would have sent the M's to the World Series, but apparently that's gonna have to be in my next lifetime. But the Seahawks going here is going to hopefully be balm for my soul. I will never not remember the horror that I felt when they didn't give the ball to Marshawn on the one-yard line at the Super Bowl in 2014. It was ridiculous. It's still painful. So I'm hoping that the Seahawks will heal my trauma because, man, that, you were right, JT. People do hate the Pats. They do. I hate them less now because they don't have the Belichick and Brady thing.
8:30 Speaker 05 So at least there's that. But I'm really hoping that the Seahawks can come through and actually just heal us. And it was, it was so gutting. And the only reason I survived it in 2014, well, technically 2015, was because my son was born during the third quarter of that game. So the whole was like in mourning. And I was like, we have a baby boy. So, yeah, but let's go Seahawks. I'm really happy. Let's come through for Seattle. Because, man, that Mariners series just broke me.
8:59 Speaker 00 Oh, my God. Yes, yes. Well, again, I'm not a Mariners fan. I am a, again, I don't have
9:07 Speaker 05 Mistake.
9:08 Speaker 00 A, an NFL football team, right? And the reason being is, for all those who don't know out there, I grew up as a Browns fan. And the Browns left me. They, they left to go to Baltimore. We didn't have a team anymore. Broke my heart. And I swore off the Cleveland Browns, and therefore I didn't have another pro team. So I thought the best thing to do was just watch all the Ohio State Buckeyes that are all over the NFL and just enjoy all the games. So I'm that guy.
9:39 Speaker 05 That's so heartwarming. I'm here for it.
9:43 Speaker 01 That must be more Euro chat.
9:46 Speaker 00 It definitely is.
9:47 Speaker 01 More Euro chat.
9:48 Speaker 05 We're like, fight to the death, yeah.
9:50 Speaker 01 Oh, that's perfect.
9:51 Speaker 00 And there's, and for my shout out, there's, there's a little European twist to it. So I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to give my, my shout outs is to unintended consequences around US tourism. And I've got a, I've got a little snippet to play real quick. Here it is.
10:08 Speaker 06 What happens to US ski towns when Canadians stop coming? I'm here at Montana's Whitefish Mountain Resort, locally known as Big Mountain. It sits just south of the US Canada border.
10:21 Speaker 06 On the eve of the busy holiday season, US ski resorts are dreading a drop in Canadian tourists this winter.
10:28 Speaker 07 We are looking at the economic trends. We're looking at, um, you know, the environment that we're in and, um, encouraging folks to continue visiting.
10:38 Speaker 06 A hit to many mountain towns who rely on visitors traveling south across the border.
10:43 Speaker 03 Just checked our occupancy rates and we're 25% under 2024 rates. So it's considerable.
10:51 Speaker 06 In this Montana town, credit card spending by Canadians has plunged 39% so far this year compared to last year.
10:59 Speaker 03 It's disappointing and sad. I mean, we totally understand that for many people, um, they're choosing not to visit the United States right now.
11:07 Speaker 06 Many businesses here are trying to coax Canadians back, offering discounts on hotels and even cheap beer. At this Montana brewery, there's a special only for Canadians, two beers for the price of one.
11:21 Speaker 03 Certainly we're seeing less Canadian tourism and that's, that's very noticeable.
11:27 Speaker 00 That from CBC, uh, in, in 2025, the United States experienced a significant drop in foreign visitors, making it the only, I repeat, the only country among 184 nations to see a decline in international tourism. I mean, jobs, kids, in Canada alone, the US is projected to lose approximately 5.7, almost six buh buh buh billion dollars in tourism. But the chasm goes deeper. And this is what I, I get in my feed here in Europe. Denmark is down 34% year over year, March 2025 year over year. Germany, 28% down.
12:07 Speaker 00 Ireland down 27%, UK down 14 and France down 8%. A broad estimate from Forbes and CNBC placed the total potential loss at 29 to 30 billion dollars for 2025.
12:25 Speaker 01 Wow.
12:26 Speaker 00 So when we lose tourism, it's not about just about flights, rentals, hotels. It's also about breakfast, lunch, dinner. And what about all those restaurants and drinks at the bar, right? Stuff animals from Disneyland, the lack of tourism, an entire sector, right? So remember hospitality seems to be one of the areas of growth in the US. Or maybe it's just a mirage. So shout out to tourism and feeling like amateur hour is gone a whole lot longer than an hour. What the fuck's going on here, kids?
13:03 Speaker 01 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, don't you think that's a, I mean, that's the first thing to go, right? Discretionary spending on trips, you know? I have a friend that owns a, he owns a hotel on a, on the front of a beach. And he said, you know how I know we're in trouble this year? He said, parents used to come in, he'd come into my little convenience store and the kids could have whatever they wanted. He said, this year you heard every single dad go one thing, one thing or $5 max or whatever he goes, when you hear parents putting a limit on the vacation, he's like, someone's watching the dollars. And he's like, then it gets worse. And look at this, he's not wrong. He's not.
13:40 Speaker 00 Next step is no vacation.
13:42 Speaker 01 Exactly.
13:44 Speaker 05 But we only need one doll, remember that too.
13:47 Speaker 01 That's, that's true. Consumerism.
13:51 Speaker 00 You don't need 30, you don't need 30 dolls. I don't, I don't know who taught capitalism to this administration, but it was all about 30 dolls.
14:01 Speaker 01 Right.
14:05 Speaker 00 But at the Chad and Cheese Podcast, at the Chad and Cheese Podcast, one thing that we do, well, that's exactly right. We don't play the games of not allowing some stuff.
14:18 Speaker 02 Some free stuff from Chadcheese.com. Now, you might be wondering why I'm sitting here topless. And the answer is really simple. Because I've not grabbed my free t-shirt from Erin App at Chad. dot com yet.
14:31 Speaker 01 Let's get it now.
14:34 Speaker 02 Right, that's better. So I'm sporting a slightly vintage model here, but of course that are new and updated designs.
14:41 Speaker 00 Still sexy, still sexy.
14:42 Speaker 02 And those are super soft, breathable, and some might even say horrible.
14:48 Speaker 02 Now, what else can you get? Of course, you can get some craft beer. It's not just any regular rubbish beer. That's craft beer. Brought to you by the data geeks at Aspen Tech Labs. If you're not into beer too much, then.
15:03 Speaker 02 Two seconds.
15:03 Speaker 00 You're not a listener of Chad and Cheese podcast, that's for sure.
15:07 Speaker 02 Then of course you can always go for chicken cock, baby. Two bottles of chicken cock from the good old people at Van Hat. Now, you're not going to get any of this stuff unless you go to ChadCheese.com forward slash free and try and get yours today.
15:25 Speaker 00 That's right, free stuff. You you might not be able to go on vacation, but you can still get free stuff from Chad and Cheese. ChadCheese.com slash free. There you go.
15:36 Speaker 05 When are we gonna hit the booze?
15:37 Speaker 00 Then.
15:38 Speaker 02 Events. Where are we going, boys?
15:41 Speaker 00 Yeah, where are you guys going? Yeah, where are you guys going?
15:45 Speaker 01 I mean, this is just, this is me saying invite me somewhere. Hello, everyone. You want me to, I mean, you need me to come speak about LinkedIn's 360 Brew algorithm and how to say, I'm in like.
15:57 Speaker 00 This is thirsty version of JT.
16:01 Speaker 01 Warm, preferably some fun stuff going on. Like, like, I'm not going someplace rando, but if you live someplace fun, I'll trade time. I'm game.
16:10 Speaker 00 It's fair. It's fair. What about, are you as thirsty, Mo?
16:16 Speaker 05 I'm thirsty. I'm thirsty. I'm in the Pacific Northwest, which is like gloom and doom central. Like, there's a reason that people get friggin depressed here. So I'm actually heading out for my own mental sanity to the beautiful state of California in a couple of weeks. So that's gonna be solid to hang out with my family and yeah, get some rays hopefully. But yeah, like JT, I always like getting off island and getting into the world. So get me out of here, here, from time to time. From time to time, I need a little social human interaction, you know, away from this ice.
16:47 Speaker 00 We all do.
16:48 Speaker 05 Yeah, I'm in. And Vegas is coming up, you know, March is is gonna be here before we know it and I'll be at Transform, so there's that.
16:55 Speaker 00 There's that. Well, and don't forget, kids, that travel is sponsored by Shaker Recruitment Marketing. So if you're looking for a well diversified and experienced recruitment marketing ad agency that goes beyond branding, talent attraction, martech and insights, then take a short little trip over to shaker.com. Yeah, I know, feel bad for me. I'm headed for Mallorca on Sunday and gonna be there for a few days. Smart Recruiters has an event that's going on. We did the Madrid tapes last year and this year we're gonna do something a little different called the Mallorca tapes. So it should be, should be a blast and can't, can't
17:37 Speaker 00 wait to go. Have you guys, have you guys, either one of you been to Mallorca? This will be my first time.
17:41 Speaker 05 Nope.
17:42 Speaker 01 No.
17:42 Speaker 05 Bucket list, man.
17:43 Speaker 01 I want pictures.
17:44 Speaker 05 We gotta have a Chad and Cheese Summit. We gotta go to Portugal, Mallorca. We gotta make the rounds in Europe. I'm in.
17:49 Speaker 00 That's exactly right. Yeah. We can do that. We can go to Greece. We've got, we've got friends in Greece. We've got friends in Italy. We've got friends all over the place. So yeah, we could actually do that. Take two, three weeks. Okay.
17:59 Speaker 05 Yeah.
18:00 Speaker 00 I'm in.
18:00 Speaker 05 I got time.
18:01 Speaker 00 I'm in.
18:01 Speaker 05 I've got the time.
18:02 Speaker 00 Ah.
18:02 Speaker 05 It's happening.
18:03 Speaker 00 It's that time.
18:03 Speaker 05 It's happening.
18:04 Speaker 00 It's that, well, it's. Topics! Steven, you're loud. Jesus, you're loud. Okay, before we get to topics, we have layoffs and I've got a, and this is, this is very apropos.
18:22 Speaker 05 Layoffs? Where's that sound?
18:23 Speaker 00 Yes.
18:23 Speaker 05 Very.
18:24 Speaker 01 Layoffs?
18:24 Speaker 05 There we go.
18:25 Speaker 01 That was actually a really good impersonation. Maureen, that was a 10 out of 10.
18:30 Speaker 05 Maybe just let me do it next time. You don't need to find the button.
18:34 Speaker 00 I think you should just do it next time.
18:36 Speaker 05 Okay. You got it.
18:37 Speaker 00 So, so we do, we have layoffs. Amazon, this from BBC, US technology giant, Amazon has confirmed it will cut 16,000 jobs hours after it told staff about a round of global redundancies in an email apparently that was sent in error.
18:59 Speaker 00 And in a very connected story, UPS, this is from the New York Times, UPS says it is cutting up to three, or I'm sorry, 30,000 jobs. The delivery company said it was planning the cuts this year because it expected the, to deliver fewer packages from Amazon. There's the connection. A large but unprofitable customer. Obviously, Amazon's hiring AI isn't their, their only tech with errors, as we've seen over the years. And UPS made a smart move in getting away from big customer like Amazon. That really didn't make them big
19:41 Speaker 00 cash. But still, that's 46,000 jobs.
19:48 Speaker 05 Yeah.
19:49 Speaker 00 Forty-six thousand jobs. So, okay, quick question. Does somebody lose their job if information goes out well before it was planned to, like on PR?
20:02 Speaker 05 I mean, that's a huge mess up. Like, dude.
20:06 Speaker 01 Yeah. I mean, everyone, I mean, nobody's taken ownership. There's going to be some serious finger pointing in that moment, right?
20:12 Speaker 05 Oh, yeah.
20:13 Speaker 01 It's me. Wasn't me. It was, yeah. I mean, that was just-
20:15 Speaker 00 Somebody has to be responsible for sending out the communication to 16,000 people.
20:23 Speaker 01 Yeah. I also think that it's-
20:25 Speaker 05 Wow. Yeah.
20:26 Speaker 01 I think that you, there's something else going on there, right? You're a big enough organization for that to happen. Accident, very likely there was some nefarious behavior going on. I feel personally, I feel in the background of that. What I do think is interesting, the way you talked about the pay, if you go read the UPS press release on this, there's some very carefully worded comms, which is a shot of Carl's the bow at Amazon. Like, basically, hey, our layoffs are because of you. And so this is where the fact that that's starting to come out now, like, I mean, this is just the beginning, right? This is going to be old news in a month. And we're not going to see, we're going to be seeing literally five-figure layoffs for the next two quarters.
21:12 Speaker 01 And so for us to, you know, but I think we're going to start seeing companies saying, well, it's because of you. It's because of you because, you know, we've run out of the AI excuse. Like, everybody cleaned house because of AI in 2025. That's old news. What are you going to say this year? You know? So, uh, should get super interesting.
21:28 Speaker 00 Yeah.
21:28 Speaker 05 It definitely will. But even, even though they did mess up royally, like I've screwed up at work. Everybody screwed up at work. I've replied all with something that I'll tell you guys about later. It's hilarious. But like, this was a mess up. But please also remember that this is the same company that decided and planned to fire people en masse via text message at 3 a.m. It's not the kind of text that you want at 3 a.m. They did this. This was the plan. And so this is, I mean, it's not outside the pale that they would do something this, this callous and ridiculous. And yes, it was probably a mistake. And, you know, I like to think that no one did this on purpose. It's a curious thing to, to consider that possibly there was a nefarious aspect to
22:11 Speaker 05 it, as you suggested. But yeah, I mean, Amazon, maybe they're the final boss of screwing up layoffs. I don't know. It's, it's messed up.
22:18 Speaker 01 Can we just talk about, they were dropping, like, the news came out last Thursday, Friday. And what I said was, can you imagine being an Amazon worker and spending your whole weekend knowing? Like, like worrying all weekend? Is it me? Is it me? Is it me? Until Wednesday? Like, that just, that sucks. You know, like,
22:35 Speaker 05 Yeah, it's almost like they don't care about people or something. It's, it's almost as if
22:38 Speaker 00 Oh, yeah. It's almost like they make people piss in trash cans or something. Um, yeah, I, I remember, you know, talking to, to friends over at UPS, uh, and them saying that this was going to happen because this was a deal that they thought was big right out of the gate. And it was big, but it was from per transaction. It was very low, right? So it was like their, their cost per package, if you take a look at it, went down dramatically because of this big transaction with, with Amazon. So they, they really wanted to get away from this because there was a lot of busy work that didn't make them a lot of money. But then again, I mean,
23:22 Speaker 00 we're talking about 30,000 jobs. So.
23:26 Speaker 00 Ouch. Onto, onto some more industry news. Have you ladies heard about this company called Eightfold? Well, um, yeah. So do you believe, here's the question, either one of you. Do you believe that you've ever applied for a job and been rejected by a score that you never saw from a system that you didn't know even existed?
23:54 Speaker 05 Yes.
23:54 Speaker 00 Well, in short, in short, that's what this lawsuit is about with Eightfold. The claim is secret AI scoring, zero disclosure, zero recourse. And Eightfold says it's quote unquote responsible AI. Yeah, cool, cool story, bruh.
24:13 Speaker 00 But responsible, responsible doesn't mean legal. And if this sticks, HR tech just found out it's a credit bureau. Mo, did Eightfold make a massive boo boo?
24:27 Speaker 05 I mean, I just am wondering, is, is anything gonna be left for humans after the robots are through? Like, they are using AI to collect all this data on us. They're going to our LinkedIn, they're going to, you know, all our search history, all of that. And they're compiling these like dossiers on us. And it's like, can't you just let us do the online stalking ourselves? Like, everybody knows when they apply to a job, people are gonna go and look at your social profiles and see what they can figure out about you. But now this is all being done in this sort of systemic way. And I do think it's concerning. I mean, I will say on the flip side, there is always an element of bias, even if you have a human reviewing all of the data, right? Like, humans come to the table with their own bias.
25:10 Speaker 05 And so these programs have that built in, of course. So you usually don't find out why you didn't get a job. But it is weirder that it's been systematized in this way. And I think it does open the door for discrimination and bias to, to happen absolutely. There's another lawsuit against Workday right now for something called HireScore, which I believe is a very similar product. And so it's interesting to see this with like the Fair Credit Bureau. Fair Credit Reporting Act being invoked versus the other, which I don't believe had that as a part of it. But this is something that has happened in the past. There was a company called iTutor Group that was sued by the AEOC for systematically rejecting candidates who were over the age of 60, if they were men,
25:52 Speaker 05 and candidates who were over the age of 55, if they were women, because women aren't allowed to age, of course. So this is something that does happen, and I think that it's going to have very broad implications for how AI is leveraged in these tools and whether the companies that actually take on these different HR tech systems, whether they are going to be held liable for using these tools and not ensuring that they meet all of the various legal requirements. So, um, yeah, I mean, it's unsettling. It's just more of this sort of corporate surveillance stuff that is continuing to pop up. I mean, i- it sucks enough to be a private employee and have basically all of your data exposed to your employer,
26:33 Speaker 05 have them know so much about you, have them checking whether you're in your house via Microsoft Teams via, or outside your house, and you know, everything is just big brother now, dude. Everything is so big brother. But to do that to candidates, are you, like, that is just extra to me. Like, no thanks. At least let me get a paycheck before you fucking compile this stuff on me. So that's kind of where I come down on it.
26:59 Speaker 01 Yeah, so, okay, so I'm gonna take it from the job seeker perspective. For 20 years now, the first thing I say to a disgruntled job seeker is hiring is discrimination with a capital I S. Let's talk about this. If I have a bushel of apples and all the apples are great, some's a little smaller, some's a little larger, greener, whatever, but they're all perfectly viable edible apples. But I can only eat one today. I am discriminated against in that moment, right? And I'm picking little weird things to decide because I literally can't decide, you know? I can't, I can't eat them all, so I've got to have one. And so in that moment, I'm going to discriminate. That has been the issue with hiring our entire lives, right? We get five great candidates down to the nitpicky thing.
27:43 Speaker 01 But in a moment like this, where we have so many people looking for work, right? And there's so much to choose from, and now we introduce AI that can go through the thousand candidates that a human recruiter couldn't have gone through, and actually look at everyone as opposed to literally make, you know, 800 of them never got seen, you sit there and go, So what do I want in this moment? Do I, do I want the AI to do, to allow me to evaluate more candidates? But then how do I do that fairly? And that's the thing that I find this fascinating, honestly, like bring on the lawsuits because conflict brings resolution, like let's start to dig a little bit deeper on this and come up. It's not black and white, but we've got to come up with some way to leverage this correctly
28:26 Speaker 01 for the benefit of the job seekers, what I'm going for, because hiring is discrimination. So I, I can't wait to see how this unfolds. But yeah, it's crazy, crazy times.
28:36 Speaker 00 Yeah, I'm going to take an entirely different look at this because this is a very complex case and, and I want to break it down to something simple and as simple as trust, right? So in this case, you know, I'm tying trust to truth. Is Eightfold telling the truth? Uh, and here's part of Eightfold CEO Ashutosh Garg's statement in response to the class action lawsuit, which he posted on LinkedIn. This is specifically with respect to data sources. Quote, "We, Eightfold, use information applicants choose to submit and data authorized by our customers under contract.
29:18 Speaker 00 We do not scrape social media and the like to assess applicants first for a specific role." End quote. Now this seems completely countered to a framework that Eightfold was built on and something that they actually talked through in a presentation I found on YouTube. So let's go ahead and watch that real quick.
29:40 Speaker 06 So once we have that concept of the unified data platform for AI, you next have the need to enrich that unified data to provide actionable insights. And I talked a little bit about this earlier, but this is really the capability where when you have a candidate profile in your system, you're able to connect to public data sources with publicly available information, things like Google Search API or Microsoft Bing API, a lot of, uh, resources and websites. In the case of, for example, technical hiring, things around Crunchbase, GitHub, Stack Overflow, to really understand the projects and the capabilities that that person's been working on. Or in the case
30:22 Speaker 00 Of a candidate providing a public LinkedIn profile. That's something that can continually, you know, be updated and synced and remain perennial on your system. So that when you're ready to tap the candidate on the shoulder for the next gig, you've got the most up to date relevant information. Yeah. So if you weren't watching the video, if you weren't watching the video podcast, the first slide was entitled, quote, enrich unified data to provide actionable insights. End quote. Yes. Enrich unified data. That is candidate data. Enriching the data from different sources. Then there was a flow chart showing Google, Microsoft, Bing and Crunchbase on the left, Eightfold's candidate profile in the middle.
31:05 Speaker 00 And then on the right, you had GitHub, Stack Overflow and LinkedIn. Okay? All of those sources had arrows going into, guess where? Eightfold's candidate profile. This represents candidate data being enriched by those sources without, I repeat, without the candidate validating the sources and/or the data. Right? This is my data. John Smith. How do you know it's the right John Smith? How do you know that this isn't an old profile? Your, the enrichment of my data should be something that I should be included in. Right? So this was, don't get me wrong, from a 2021 presentation.
31:47 Speaker 00 But as you can tell by the segment, candidate enrichment was core and part of Eightfold's framework slash deliverable. And in my honest opinion, Ashu lied.
32:02 Speaker 02 Lies, lies, all lies.
32:05 Speaker 00 Which, which means I can't trust Eightfold personally. And one of the pillars of picking a new HR tech partner, especially if you're going to spend hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars on that platform, it is simply trust. And I cannot personally trust Eightfold. So question to you guys, was that, was that too simple? Did I break that down too simple?
32:29 Speaker 01 No, but you're bringing up the point, right? Like AI is unavoidable, right? Like we are going to be using AI in everything we do going forward. But we're in the Wild West, like you're pointing out and. Companies like this that want to run at it ahead, like try to grab market share, but not think through the larger ramifications, this is what's going to happen. Someone's gonna, someone like Chad's gonna find your YouTube as a CEO, where you're saying one thing and then you're on another saying another. Like this is what's gonna happen. And I'm here for it because it's the only way we're gonna get better at this.
32:59 Speaker 00 Again, I tried to break it down simply, but I've got some industry experts and people who, they're a little bit more complex. So here's, here's a quote, "Whether it's the FCRA in the US or the EU AI Act in Europe, the direction is the same. Hiring technology that shapes outcomes is treated as regulated decision infrastructure, not just HR software." End quote. That's Chris Long, founder of Elevate and the strategic H A, strategic HR advisor. Another one, quote, "AI in TA tech is becoming foundational. What the eightfold situation highlights is that the future of TA tech
33:44 Speaker 00 won't be defined by who has the best algorithm, but by who earns and sustains trust with candidates, clients and the market." There's that word again, trust. End quote. That's Quincy Valencia, VP of Talent Transformation at Corn Fairy. And one for Matt Charney. Matt Charney says, "The black box hiring tech didn't fail because it was evil. It failed because it was convenient." That makes you think, doesn't it?
34:14 Speaker 01 I love me some Matt Charney.
34:16 Speaker 00 Matt always makes you think.
34:18 Speaker 01 He does, he does. Agreed.
34:21 Speaker 00 So when it comes, when it comes down to, again, eightfold, when it comes down to any of these platforms, I actually reached out to Sean Burton, who was a CEO of HiringSolved back in the day. And they were enriching data at one time and they stopped because they saw this, this train coming down the tracks and it was going to hit them head on. And so they, so they pivoted. They actually were acquired by another company later. But when it came down to it. This is close to 10 years ago. We knew this. We knew that this was not the route to go. It sounded great, but when you take a look at the data and the data warehouses that most companies are buying this data from, it's shit data.
35:06 Speaker 01 Agreed.
35:07 Speaker 00 I've seen some of these, these data warehouses and some of the exports that they actually provide. It's usually shit data. So if you're working off garbage and you believe that you're going to enrich an individual's profile with garbage, what do you think you end up with?
35:25 Speaker 01 Right. Right. Hot trash. Well, and what about people who, what about people who want to change careers? What about people who don't want to do the thing they've done before? Like this, this stuff carries with you. What if they put garbage in someplace and now they can't get rid of it? Like, there's just, it, there's, it's too much. It just, I'm with you. I'm so glad. Take the high road, people. Be careful.
35:48 Speaker 00 Too much people. It's so much.
35:51 Speaker 01 Slow down.
35:54 Speaker 04 Hey, boys and girls. It's Joel Cheeseman here from the Chad and Cheese Podcast. Guys, I've seen pretty much every AI recruiting tool out there. I give my time and money to a very small few, and I'm here to tell you that I'm an investor in Alex AI because this tech actually delivers. Look, if you're still drowning in automated resume slop, ghosting candidates and wasting hours on first round screens, it's time to hire with Alex. Alex is the AI recruiter that's actually solid, which means it doesn't sound like a robot from a 1984 sci-fi flick.
36:28 Speaker 04 Alex interviews candidates on video or phone, asks smart follow-ups, takes killer notes and surfaces the best ones so your team can focus on hiring top talent instead of chasing ghosts. If you're scaling a team and tired of the same old pain, go check out Alex right now at alex.com. That's A-L-E-X.com and tell them Joel sent you. And right now, you can get a free copy of the book by Alex founder Aaron Wang titled The 10x Recruiter. Just go to alex.com/chese. That's A-L-E-X.com/cheese. That's right. A free book on the principles of AI and talent acquisition. And all you need to do is head to alex.com/chese right now. Guys, alex.com. Interview everyone. Hire the best.
37:16 Speaker 00 Oh my God. Okay. So next we have, oh, from Eightfold to Ronstadt. This is too much already.
37:24 Speaker 00 So Ronstadt has a survey. They have a survey.
37:29 Speaker 00 And it's called Ronstadt's 2026 Work Monitor Survey, which just dropped and spoiler alert, employers think everything's awesome. Workers do not. Workers, workers do not. 95, 95% of employers think growth is coming. Meanwhile, 40% of workers already grabbed a second job just to survive. Everything is awesome. Although 40%, 40% of workers, another job just to put meat on the table. JT, what the hell is going on out there?
38:07 Speaker 01 Well, I, I just want some of what the employers are smoking. Can you get me some of that? Yeah, I'm up in the mountains.
38:16 Speaker 00 Bring it.
38:17 Speaker 05 Smoking their stock packages, I guess.
38:19 Speaker 01 No, this kind of goes back to what we were talking about on one of the other episodes where this, this is going to be the year we see a lot of C-suite changes, right? We're going to clear house and what's going to come in are the hype team, right? Because we can't figure out what to do with our business model. So let's clear out and put somebody new in who's like, you know, rah rah, probably doesn't have a serious game plan, but it's like, right? So 95% growth ahead. We're honestly, that's what you're going to see, right? Or as we said, the CFO who's going to, you know, cut money and make us profitable no matter what. You've got two choices there because it's the wild west. Nobody knows what to do. And so they're waiting until they see clear plans. So that cracks me up. You see them dropping benefits everywhere. I mean,
39:02 Speaker 01 every possible benefit is getting cut as a way to save money. No wonder employees are miserable and taking second jobs. I mean, I see that every day. The rate of underemployment right now is catastrophic and no one's tracking it. You know, there's 4.4% unemployment.
39:19 Speaker 00 It's bullshit.
39:20 Speaker 01 Add in the underemployment rate. I guarantee you it's double digits, double digits. Everyone I know's got second gigs, side hustles, fractional work, this, that, you know.
39:31 Speaker 01 It's scary times. So yeah, I do want what they're smoking. Just send it my way.
39:37 Speaker 05 Money and power, I'd say. I think it's money and power they're smoking. And I want some too. So yeah, I mean, that 40% figure is staggering. I mean, that's like not what corporate employment is supposed to be, right? It's supposed to be the safe route, the safety net, the thing that props up coal communities. And we just can't count on it anymore with 40% of people already having these quote side hustles and whatnot. And realizing that they're going to have to create these portfolio careers. I'm also curious of the people who are of that 40%, how many of their employers know of their side gig? And how many of them have come down on them for said side gig? Because it's like the Hunger Games in corporate right now. Pay me more, motherfucker.
40:18 Speaker 05 Exactly. Like if you pay me and give me stability and like, you know, any sort of sense that I have longevity in this company. Like I won't need the freaking side hustle. Like that's really the answer. And I just, I feel so horribly for everybody who's involved in these corporations right now. Because there is just absolutely no security. And we've been harping on it for a long time. It's this like whole future of work thing is the gig economy. It is this sort of fractional consulting type work. And you see it right now in corporate, right? 40% of these people are already doing that and exhibiting what will be the future of work because of what corporate has done. So it's just, I don't know.
41:00 Speaker 05 It's not surprising that the, the C suite is out there saying everything's fantastic. While the everyday actual employee who's doing the work is saying not so much. I feel like that's kind of a mainstay of just how corporate is.
41:15 Speaker 05 But I mean, again, it's just, it's the fact that, for example, another thing in the study was, I think it was 81% of employees said that one of the most important things for them for retention was like having some sort of flexibility and work-life balance in their work. And that is how you keep people. So if you want to keep people and you're saying you're valuing their happiness, like you have to actually put something behind those words. Which again, leads me to believe that they're still just trying to clean house by making it so miserable that people want to leave. Because then they can say it was because of AI and then they can rehire everybody later at a fraction of the cost. So I don't know, it's a mess out there and I just, people shouldn't be gaslit like this. Like it just sucks.
42:00 Speaker 00 Well, I think Ron Stodd's CEO, Sander van der Schnudel, he talked about somebody who's divorced, divorced from fucking reality. I'll just, I'll leave it at that, number one. And we'll go ahead and we will, we will transition into two other CEOs who are also fairly divorced from reality. Have you guys watched many of the talks in Davos last week?
42:27 Speaker 05 I've seen snippets.
42:28 Speaker 00 Did you guys watch them?
42:29 Speaker 05 I watched these.
42:29 Speaker 00 Oh, yeah?
42:30 Speaker 05 It's, it's, yeah.
42:34 Speaker 00 It's, yeah, it's, it's, it's hard. I do have to say, I do have to say that Mark Carney, the Prime Minister of, of Canada, his was required viewing, no doubt, no doubt. But I wanted to highlight two that I thought were interesting, especially since they were given from two CEOs from, from AI companies that we all know, and they're all talking about jobs. So this first segment is Alex Karp from Palantir. Let's go ahead and take a listen to, yeah, let's listen to Palantir.
43:12 Speaker 02 Like, we're building batteries for a battery company. And the people who are doing it in America are doing roughly the same job that Japanese engineers are doing, and they went to high school. And now they're very valuable, if not irreplaceable, because we can make them into something different than what they were very rapidly. And those jobs are going to become more valuable. I mean, you know, I do not, not to divert into my usual political screeds, but it, there will be more than enough jobs for the citizens of your nation, especially those with vocational training. I do think these, these trends really do make it hard. Hard to imagine why we should have large scale immigration unless you have a very specialized skill. What the hell does that mean?
43:57 Speaker 05 This guy, this guy.
43:59 Speaker 00 Uh, yeah. So, I mean, for anyone who is wondering if Skynet comes into existence, Palantir is going to be the company who built it. Peter Thiel, Alex Karp, uh, evil personified. Anyway, moving on, moving on. Vocation versus education, I thought was, was interesting, which, you know, really, we've been talking about the death of, of white collar.
44:26 Speaker 05 Right.
44:26 Speaker 00 Um, that to me is big. Uh, also plenty of jobs for the people of your nation. That sounded really, really weird, especially when you couple that with no immigration needed, right? Unless they have specialized skills. And for me, right now, healthcare hospitality are like the two big growth areas. And we're not really sure about hospitality for too long because of tourism. But you've got healthcare, hospitality, truck drivers, agricultural workers, dock workers. Those are not jobs that white collar people are going to retrain to do.
45:09 Speaker 00 They're not gonna, they're not gonna be in the fields. They're not gonna be on the docks. They're not gonna be doing that kind of stuff. So to me, what did you guys think about this? This to me was, was really kind of Black Mirror-ish.
45:22 Speaker 05 Literally everything that guy says is Black Mirror-ish. Like, that guy starts speaking, my brain just like goes haywire. I just, so, so I have a lot of bias when it comes to actually absorbing any message that he puts out there into the world. But, I mean, this guy is off his rocker. I'm sorry. He just straight up is. And he's just emblematic of what is wrong with this world, in my opinion. So, um, I, I have a hard time taking anything he says seriously. The problem unfortunately with that is that he has outsized power and influence over the course of human history, which fucking sucks. So, um, yeah, unfortunately, his, his thoughts there, the coded language, it's, it's all, it's.
46:01 Speaker 05 It's very, well, shall I say MAGA coded? And it's a, it's a little disturbing to say the very least to me. I, yeah, things are changing. The vocational aspect is interesting that he said, but to your point, Chad, like there are not enough white collar workers who are going to shift into those other vocations. It's just not going to happen. So like, stop, stop this BS. It's just ridiculous.
46:26 Speaker 01 So, you know, my dark view on this is that they've already decided that people need a reset, right? So, you know, teaching people that every job is temporary and helping them understand that there's no such thing as a full-time job with benefits and security anymore is something that I think they've chosen to make a mission. So they're like, look, we have a bunch of people that need to think differently. So if we put enough pressure on them and we make them miserable enough, long enough, that very person that said they will never take that job will take it. And I'll give you an example, 1990.com bust. I'm a career coach. I have software engineers that were making 120K back then. Think about what that would be now, right? When I tell them, do you want this job at 80K? And they're like, absolutely not. I'm not taking anything less than my 120. And then
47:11 Speaker 01 two years later, they've drained their entire 401K. They have no money and they take the 60K.
47:16 Speaker 05 Yep.
47:17 Speaker 01 Job that's five levels lower. Lesson learned. I really believe that that collective is trying to make that moment happen right now. Look at everything that's going on.
47:26 Speaker 05 Totally agree.
47:27 Speaker 01 As they continue to tell it. So you push a group of people who say, I have a college degree. I deserve a full-time job with benefits. And 18 months, two years from now, they don't think that way. And let me further prove this. Kids coming out of college right now, there are no entry level jobs. Those kids from the get-go are now doing multiple gigs, multiple side hustles, learning to be businesses of one and having to fend for themselves. They'll eventually come back into the work, you know, when they have the workforce, but they will have a different mindset to never trust that there is a job like that ever again. So I believe this is a very highly coordinated play. And that you're going to continue to see that kind of conversation in order till you and you have these people cave. People are going to cave and that's what they're going for. And it's dark and it's miserable, but it's happening.
48:13 Speaker 05 You're absolutely right. It's the great, great market reset, the great job market, the great labor reset.
48:18 Speaker 00 Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's in again, as JT is talking about, it's literally the great expectations. We're, we're, what are we going to expect, right? What are we used to as the rest of the world watches and looks as we have, you know, we pay for, for healthcare that we get worse outcomes out of than most of the rest of the industrialized world, education, those types of things. It's, it is, it is a very weird, weird place to be. Imagine mixing PandaLogix AI with Broadbean's Global Job Network to redefine your hiring
49:00 Speaker 00 process and expand what's humanly possible. Well, that's called Veritone Hire, kids. Whether you're piloting a scrappy startup or a corporate juggernaut, they've got you covered. Need to blast job postings, craft a killer programmatic campaign, or I don't know, maybe hit those diversity targets? Veritone Hire does it all. Find, connect, and hire faster with AI-powered tools designed to bring people together, so you can get back to what's important: growing your damn business. It's AI that helps people find more great people. Ready to elevate your hiring game? Head over to veritone.com/hire and see what all the buzz is about. That's
49:45 Speaker 00 veritone.com/hire. Soash out. Boy, that escalated quickly. Oh, yeah. Whoa, okay. Literally, it's getting dark here. Okay, so, okay, so, um, let's jump into the second interview segment with Anthropic CEO Dario Amende as we, as we once again, once again, start taking a look at the wonderful CEOs that are out there who seem to be disconnected from, divorced from reality. Here we go. There are probably going to be more jobs in the physical world and less jobs in
50:30 Speaker 00 the knowledge work economy. Now, maybe eventually robotics, you know, makes progress, but I think that's on a, that's on a slower trajectory, so.
50:37 Speaker 07 So that's one. Are there jobs that have, you know, still kind of, you know, really value a human touch? Um, some of them do, some of them don't. We may find out how important, how important that is in the market and where it's most important. At the level of companies, what are the moats when software becomes cheap and then subsequently the rest of knowledge work becomes cheap? We don't know. We've never quite asked that question. We've thought about moats in a certain way. So there's, there's going to be a huge scramble at the level of, at the level of companies. So, you know, teaching people to adapt, teaching them what to expect, I think is the second step. And, and the third step is, I think, there's, there's gonna need to be some role for government in, in the displacement that's, that's this macro economically
51:21 Speaker 07 large. I just, I just don't see how, I don't see how it doesn't happen. The pie is gonna grow much larger, right? Like, the money is gonna be there. Like, you know, may, you know, the budget may balance without us doing anything because there's so much growth. Um, uh, the issue is distributing it to the right people. And so, and so I think, I think this is probably a time to worry less about disincentivizing growth and, and worry more about making, making sure that everyone gets, gets, gets a part of that growth.
51:49 Speaker 05 That is hilarious.
51:51 Speaker 00 These are CEOs from multi-billion dollar valuated companies, okay? Multi-billion dollar. Um, more jobs in the physical world, as we just talked about.
52:05 Speaker 05 Labor.
52:05 Speaker 00 Yes. Right. White collar jobs, get out of here. We don't need you. How important is human touch? Right? That was something that he brought up. Um, teaching people to adapt, that's coded language.
52:20 Speaker 05 Coded language.
52:20 Speaker 00 Teaching people how to adapt. What, what does that look like? What does that actually mean? And then, so, one of the things that always drives me fucking crazy when it comes to CEOs is they're always looking to, for, to governments to clean up their mess. So, the roles, what are the roles for displaced workers? Well, the government should deal with that. No, no, no, no, no. You should. Deal with that. As a matter of fact, you should have programs, training programs for these individuals who you displaced. To be able to create new roles, to be able to drive your organization. This isn't the government's job.
53:02 Speaker 00 Just those pieces and I've got more, more, more to talk about, but just those pieces. Where are you at JT?
53:08 Speaker 01 I mean, well, I was just waiting for him to drop universal basic income in there any second, right? Like where was he gonna like? Any minute now. I mean, that's what he was hinting to with a big grin on his face like. He's like this, like giddy over the whole idea. What bothers me is that we, we as humans need to be intrinsically motivated. We need to be able to get up every day and have a sense of purpose, a thing that we want to do. Sadly, that's been scrubbed out of us. And I've told you a million times, go read the book. Alfie Cohn was like predicting ahead of his time, right? But when you've created an entire world where we are extrinsically motivated, right? Where we're like, you know, give me this, I deserve this, I get this.
53:48 Speaker 01 This is what they're trying to undo. So when he talks about that coded language, right? He wants to shock everybody back into intrinsic. So they think they're doing the world a favor. They're in their mind, like, we're going to get everybody back to intrinsic motivation and doing it just because and right? Like it blows my mind, the thinking, the pie in the sky thinking there, but it helps him sleep at night. He's doing the world a favor by helping people understand this. Meanwhile, is that guy going to do any physical labor? I'm just really quick. Hell no. Like now, no, like the thinking job.
54:19 Speaker 00 Are his kids, are his kids going to do any physical labor? Is anybody he knows going to do any physical labor, right? That, that's the big question. Of course he's not. I mean, but what it's, it's that sphere of influence. Where everybody else turned into fucking peasants.
54:35 Speaker 01 Yep.
54:36 Speaker 00 I mean, that's really what they're looking at.
54:38 Speaker 01 100%. I mean, we're making the class system wider, right? Like it is scary to me. And we just said it. Underemployment is through the roof. At what point do people just quit? And say, forget it. I'm done. And I'm not going after anything anymore. Like, we're gonna see that. That's what happens next. People just stop trying, you know?
54:59 Speaker 00 Yeah, but the problem is that they're having, I mean, they can't stop trying because they need food, right? And they need a house.
55:06 Speaker 05 The government will save us.
55:07 Speaker 01 The government's gonna save this guy, like, right?
55:10 Speaker 05 They're so good with social security already. Social Security, healthcare, they're already taking care of that. Why not UBI? I mean, these guys aren't offering to open their pockets, right? It's like, I can't believe a freaking Silicon Valley libertarian-type dude is telling us that that we should just all get free money. Are you doing it, bro? Like, shut up, dude. I can't. I can't.
55:32 Speaker 00 Yeah. Well, the thing that gets me is, and then further on, the pie will grow much larger. Number one, the budget might balance without us doing anything, right? The issue is distributing the money to the right people.
55:50 Speaker 05 Trickle-down economics.
55:52 Speaker 00 If, yes, yes.
55:54 Speaker 05 It worked so well last time.
55:56 Speaker 00 Oh, my fucking god, if there ever needed to be. Come on, you can play.
56:04 Speaker 02 Time for a history lesson.
56:07 Speaker 00 Marine just, Mo just said it. This is, this is what they all promised us with trickle-down economics. The pie's gonna get bigger, which means your slice is gonna get bigger. It did, the pie did get bigger, but guess what? The slice did not get bigger. The budget might balance itself because we're going to have all this money. Is the budget balanced today? It sure the fuck isn't. And the issue in distributing the money to the right people, that's the, the bigger piece of the pie that you're, we're all supposed to be getting. That never fucking happened.
56:41 Speaker 05 Like, what is happening? I cannot.
56:44 Speaker 01 It's crazy.
56:45 Speaker 05 Ugh. These people tell you.
56:48 Speaker 00 Uh, and so... In closing out today's show, we had a bunch of crazy shit from a bunch of crazy CEOs. We had, we had Eightfold's, we had Ronstadt's, then we've got Anthropic, and we've got Palantir. To me, as all of these people are being looked up to by many in their industries, for us to be able to sit back and listen to them literally be divorced from reality, it's kind of fun, and it's kind of sad at the same time.
57:27 Speaker 05 Yeah. I mean, do they think we can't notice? Do they think we don't see what's happening here? Like, how stupid do they think we are? That, they're insulting my intelligence by asking me to believe this shit.
57:41 Speaker 01 I just think they're giddy on the ride of optimism. They're so excited about what they're doing. They're so excited about it that they've just mentally justified that there's nothing but upside there, right? And that's, that's the, you know, they say to-
57:53 Speaker 05 That's why you need diverse teams.
57:54 Speaker 01 -great things, you need to be delusional, right? Like, they're like, living up to the delusion, you know? The more delusional you are, the crazier things that can happen, right? I think that's just where they're at.
58:03 Speaker 05 They're flying too close to the sun.
58:05 Speaker 00 Divorced from reality. And, everybody, we like to thank you for sticking around for our therapy session. Thanks so much. Mo, JT, thanks again for joining us this week. Joel should be back next week. I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be in Mallorca, so, you know, you won't miss me. It'll, it'll all be good. But until then, thanks, guys, and it's another one in the can.
58:27 Speaker 01 We out.
58:28 Speaker 05 We out.
58:29 Speaker 02 Thank you for listening to, what's it called? A podcast. The chat. The cheese. Brilliant. They talk about recruiting. They talk about technology, but most of all, they talk about nothing. Just a lot of shout outs of people you don't even know, and yet, you're listening. It's incredible. And, not one word about cheese. Not one. Cheddar, blue, nacho, pepper jack, Swiss. So many cheeses, and not one word. So weird. Anywho, be sure to subscribe today on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. That way, you won't miss an episode.
59:14 Speaker 02 And, while you're at it-
59:16 Speaker 07 Visit www.chadcheese.com. Just don't expect to find any recipes for grilled cheese. It's so weird. We out.
Previous Shredded: Tesla, Deel, Eightfold AI, Fiverr, Yaballe, Bullhorn, JobLeap, & More Next Are Job Boards Solving the Hiring Problem? Page updated November 11, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated
