Behind the scenes on The Social: When the media gets it right

In this special episode, Kristi Lee sits down with survivor and advocate Jessica Baker to chat about their appearance on CTV’s The Social earlier this week. Jessica was violently sexually assaulted by former Hedley frontman Jacob Hoggard in 2016. He was found guilty in relation to her charge in 2022, and not guilty in relation to two other victim-complainants. In June, he was granted day parole after serving less than two years of his five-year prison sentence. In November 2025, Jessica publicly revealed her identity in the CBC documentary Breaking Idol, but she has has turned down all media appearance invitations since then. In this special episode, she reflects on why she chose to break that streak on The Social, and how it actually went on the day. Kristi also explains how The Social’s thoughtful, trauma-informed approach helped both women feel prepared and supported, and reflects on another TV experience that caused her to avoid media appearances for six years. Thanks to Jessica Baker, Tiffany Hsiung, and everyone at The Social! More info: Watch our segment on The Social: Jacob Hoggard’s Accuser and Survivor Speaks Out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOqXpg32po8 [YouTube]Watch Kristi’s segment on The Social from Jan 2026 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MTYCkGBk6M [YouTube]Watch Breaking Idol, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJsvxLQWnxo directed by Tiffany Hsiung [YouTube - only available in Canada)Listen to our original podcast series The Trial of Hedley’s Jacob Hoggard https://www.canadiantruecrime.ca/episodes/122Visit Beyond The Verdict https://www.beyondtheverdict.ca/ advocacy groupLearn more about Kindness Circle https://www.kindnesscircle.ca/Trauma-informed journalism: Tips for telling important stories, better https://www.pickupcommunications.com/tips and The Trauma Beat: A Case for Re-Thinking the Business of Bad News https://ecwpress.com/products/the-trauma-beat by Tamara Cherry www.canadiantruecrime.ca https://www.canadiantruecrime.ca Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Hi there, I hope you're well. I wanted to tell you about something really cool that happened this past Monday. So this is just a little kind of update.

• 0:10Speaker 01

  Today on The Social. Inside the trial of former Hedley frontman Jacob Hoggard with Canadian true crime host Christie Lee and advocate and survivor Jessica Baker.

• 0:23Speaker 00

  The Social airs on CTV from about 2pm on weekdays. It's a very popular daytime talk show that's been described as Canada's version of The View. And just before Jessica left to return home to Ottawa, we sat down for a very quick debrief about how it all went.

• 0:43Speaker 00

  Hi Jess.

• 0:44Speaker 02

  Hello.

• 0:46Speaker 00

  We've been here for two nights. I just wanted to jump in the morning after to have a very quick debrief of our time at The Social because it's my second time now. And I have to say like how amazing it all was. And Jess, how did you find it?

• 1:02Speaker 02

  Every single person there was so, so kind and so empathetic. You could tell that they really like took care of the sensitive subject matter that we were talking about. I had the best experience. And normally I'm not a fan of being on TV or on camera or anything like that. But I would, I'd do it again for sure.

• 1:25Speaker 00

  It's important to understand that since the CBC documentary Breaking Idol, directed by Tiffany Shung, was released back in November of 2025, Jessica has been contacted by multiple media outlets asking for interviews and TV appearances. She turned them all down for a few reasons. One is that she didn't want to do them by herself. Jessica, after the documentary, I know that you were feeling like, you know, it was the first time being on TV, but also the time when your identity as the survivor or a survivor from the Jacob Hoggard case was first made known. And it was a very brave decision and understandably you kind of retreated a little bit after that.

• 2:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. I also like, I don't want people to think that I am trying to just like get on TV or I don't know, be famous or be known or something like that. So I just pick my opportunities very, I'm very picky.

• 2:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, I am as well. Like I, I'm quite a bit reclusive. So, so I want to give you a bit of a backstory about all of this because it all kind of feeds into the extremely positive experience we had on The Social. My first time on Canadian TV was in January of 2020. I was invited to be a panelist on a Saturday night pop culture TV show. And there was a segment on true crime. I'm not a natural speaker and I'm really best if I can be prepared. So beforehand, I tried to get some idea of the topics we might be discussing or the questions I might be asked. The producer was extremely vague, which I think was intentional.

• 3:09Speaker 00

  There's a school of thought in journalism that you get the most natural answers by catching people slightly off guard. The problem is that approach does not work well on everyone. For some, i.e. me, it can be a total disaster. So not only was I feeling deeply unprepared, but it was during the peak of my imposter syndrome era, where a couple of journalists had told me they were essentially salty about me occupying this space. And they felt that this style of podcast was the equivalent of stealing their work. So imagine how I felt as I arrived at the studio on the day of filming and was introduced to one of my fellow panelists,

• 3:50Speaker 00

  Kevin Donovan, the Toronto Star's lead investigative reporter, most well-known for the Barry and Honey Sherman case. I introduced myself to him as the resident hack and I physically cringe when I think about that. But in my mind, I was kind of trying to disarm him before he had a reason to judge me, that I wasn't claiming to be a journalist and I posed absolutely no threat to him or his work. Of course, this was all happening entirely inside my own head. Kevin Donovan didn't know who I was. Neither did our other panelist, who was a criminologist. These days, I know that those journalists who reached out to me do not represent all the journalists out there.

• 4:33Speaker 00

  And I also know that the work that I do is legitimate. There is an actual term for it, explanatory journalism, taking complex subjects, connecting the dots and adding context that can't always fit into a standard news article and then making it accessible to a different audience. But back then, I just didn't have the language for it and I was cloaked in my imposter syndrome. So the three of us took our places on the couch at the set. The host introduced the segment and then immediately directed the first question to me. I can't remember what he asked, but I do remember just staring at him like a deer in the headlights, unable to find a single word. It's a brain blank.

• 5:17Speaker 00

  It's an ADHD thing and it happens when there's information overload. And it's happened to me many times. That is why I wanted to know the questions that they were going to ask in advance. Anyway, after a couple of tense seconds, I had to apologize and ask if we could start again. I was lucky that the show wasn't live and I made it through the segment, although I was the opposite of confident and honestly, it showed. That particular TV show no longer airs and fortunately, all evidence of my episode has been scrubbed from the internet. But when I walked out of the TV studio that day, I made a decision. I would never put myself in that position again.

• 6:00Speaker 00

  So after that, I said no to almost every single media opportunity that came my way. Six years later, in January of this year, I somehow landed an opportunity to go on CTV's The Social and talk about my new Robert Pickden series. At first, I really wanted to say no, but I know how popular The Social is, especially with women. So I spoke with the producer Megan about how the process would work. And honestly, it couldn't have been more different from my previous experience. Megan follows true crime herself and she really did her research and understood the sensitivities involved. There was a pre-interview. I was then sent the questions in advance.

• 6:42Speaker 00

  And then about an hour before the live taping, we had a rehearsal to test all of the timing and make sure everything flowed. It is live TV after all. But I felt like I'd been given the best possible chance to succeed. And I'm very grateful that I did a half decent job. No brain blanks thankfully, that time. There will be another one, which I'll tell you about in a second. Everyone was incredibly kind and supportive, including the hosts Melissa Grelo and Jess Allen. So that was back in January. Cut to a few weeks ago and The Social reached out to me again. Back to my conversation with Jessica. When the producer reached back out to me, Megan, to say, hey, I saw your episode

• 7:26Speaker 00

  about the Jacob Hoggard parole hearing and all the buried information in that parole document. She said, would you like to come on the show again with Jessica? So I talked to Jessica and what did you think at first?

• 7:41Speaker 02

  No. But I love The Social. Like I love watching it and I know I don't like being on TV, but.

• 7:49Speaker 00

  Because I'd already been on The Social and I had something else to compare it to, I was able to tell Jessica that I felt prepared and supported. And I'm just a regular true crime podcast host. So I felt really confident that the team would give her the same care that they'd given me. Plus, she wouldn't be by herself. So we arranged for Jessica to catch the train to Toronto once again and I came in from the burbs to stay with her for the two nights.

• 8:18Speaker 02

  No, it was so much better than I thought it was going to be because they make, they make you so comfortable and they're so sweet. Like the ladies are incredible. And it was so nice that they actually sat with us at rehearsal. So it would be the same people we're having a conversation with. And we knew exactly where to sit.

• 8:36Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 8:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was less nerve wracking.

• 8:40Speaker 00

  Those are just some examples of how The Social was a different experience to what survivors and victims of crime often encounter with the mainstream media. And there's a term for how best to do it, trauma-informed journalism. It's about understanding how trauma affects a person before, during and after an interview and then adapting the process to create a safe, predictable and supportive environment for them. I'm getting this info from Tamara Cherry, journalist, trauma researcher and author of the book The Trauma Beat, A Case for Rethinking the Business of Bad News. I highly recommend it. These practices can be as simple as explaining the process in advance,

• 9:21Speaker 00

  sharing the topics or questions, consulting with the survivor before asking difficult questions, offering breaks and following up afterwards. Allowing a trusted support person to attend is a big one. Jessica has been denied this before. Some journalists are just so rigid in their practices. But The Social accommodated us both so that Jessica could focus on reacting to what happened and I could take care of the factual and procedural explanations. Trauma-informed practices also mean giving the survivor some choice over the setting and the language. At The Social, Jessica was offered the chance to do the segment away from the studio audience if that made her more comfortable.

• 10:04Speaker 00

  When I was first on the show back in January, I really found the audience to be a huge confidence booster. So I told Jessica that and we decided to go for it. And the producers responded to that by limiting the audience to a smaller number, inviting a group of amazing activists called the Kindness Circle to act as cheerleaders for Jessica, more on them in a second, and making sure that everyone was informed about the serious nature of the segment. We didn't even have to ask for all of this. Everyone from the producers to the hosts of the segment, that's Melissa Grelo and Cynthia Loist, to the talent and audience coordinators. They were all proactive in adapting their usual processes to make sure it was a safe space for Jessica.

• 10:50Speaker 00

  They clearly understood that if she's prepared and supported enough to be fully present in the moment, it'll make for a better, more meaningful conversation, which is ultimately better for the audience's experience as well. And according to the numbers, it was a very popular segment. There's a link in the show notes to watch it on The Social's YouTube channel. Here's a couple of clips.

• 11:12Speaker 03

  Christie has closely covered the case, including many interviews with Jessica. Thank you both for being here.

• 11:20Speaker 02

  I did not think that anyone would believe me because at the time, he was actually very popular. They asked me if I wanted to report it and I said no, originally.

• 11:31Speaker 04

  So you eventually did come forward and what led you to that decision?

• 11:35Speaker 02

  I saw there was an arrest for another complainant and she was only 16 years old when it happened to her. So I wanted to come forward so that I could corroborate her story because they're very similar.

• 11:49Speaker 03

  Christie, can you explain why there's a particular part of the sexual assault trial that is so challenging? And how rape shield laws are meant to shape the sort of questions that happen?

• 11:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, so I'm not a lawyer. I'm just a layperson, obviously. But sexual assault is a uniquely intimate crime because... Okay, so remember the brain blank thing? Well, I did have another one, but it wasn't so bad. I'd just done a bit of a lengthy explainer about how unique sexual assault trials are and why rape shield laws exist. And when I got to the example I was supposed to give, I completely blanked out. And then I looked at Jessica and she mouthed it. And so I was able to continue. ...accused right to a fair trial. So yeah, Jessica unfortunately bore the brunt of it. They like, what was the... The third... Oh, yeah.

• 12:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, so what they... Sorry. What they did was there was a 30-second, 15-minute phone call that Jacob Hoggard secretly recorded. Thank you to Jess for saving me.

• 12:55Speaker 04

  Jessica, you have said that testifying was even worse than the assault itself. Take us through that.

• 13:01Speaker 02

  It's like a second assault? Like, you're talking about the worst thing that's ever happened to you in front of a room full of people and they're judging everything that you're saying? That was the worst day of my entire life, being on the stand. I was telling Christie, I said on her podcast that everyone kept saying like, "Oh, we'll see you tomorrow." And I planned on killing myself that night.

• 13:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:26Speaker 00

  She just couldn't face another day.

• 13:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:29Speaker 00

  Because you're all alone, right?

• 13:41Speaker 00

  It was very emotional. And then at the end of the segment, the live audience gave Jessica a standing ovation. So we all stood up as well. And Jessica kind of started crying on the stage. And it was just this like incredible moment. And well, for me it was. How was it for you?

• 13:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, it's very like empowering. It's hard to describe. They were very kind and we were so lucky that the audience was full of the kindness crew.

• 14:10Speaker 00

  We keep calling them the kindness crew, but it's actually Kindness Circle. It's a Canadian community organization and movement focused on spreading empathy, self-compassion, and charitable giving. #KindnessCircle.

• 14:24Speaker 02

  It was just like a crazy coincidence.

• 14:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:26Speaker 02

  And they were so kind and they were like hyping me up and cheering me on. And I'm so used to doing things by myself. So it's nice to have like supporters physically there.

• 14:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, and then we had Tiffany Shung, the director of Breaking Idol, coming with her mother, Wendy Tan. She's actually filmed a documentary with her mother as well. And three of my closest friends came. And when we all exited the building afterwards, the kindness crew were there and they noticed Jessica. And then one of the leaders of the crew just said, told you how brave you were. Everyone stopped on the sidewalk and... I grabbed my phone and started recording.

• 15:06Speaker 05

  There are so many of us out here that are afraid and because of what you did here, tonight, I hope you...

• 15:19Speaker 05

  And this is the kindness group, only kindness to you. I'm so glad you guys are here today.

• 15:27Speaker 05

  Really positive. It's the best crew. I know. And girl, I'm that mad black woman. So if you ever need a bodyguard...

• 15:38Speaker 00

  How was that?

• 15:39Speaker 02

  So nice. It was very sweet. I used to, I was afraid to make my identity known for the longest time because I didn't know how people would react.

• 15:51Speaker 02

  And the amount of support is amazing. I never thought that people would come up to me on the street and say nice things to me. So I love those women. I hope I see them again.

• 16:02Speaker 00

  I know.

• 16:03Speaker 02

  They were the sweetest, kindest people.

• 16:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was incredible. Well, Jess, it's been an amazing two days. We're about to leave and you catch your train back east and I catch my train back west. And I think we'll be seeing each other again later on this year. But thank you again for coming. It's been incredible. I've had a great two days and we've caught up with some, you know, people from the film and stuff. Thank you.

• 16:29Speaker 02

  I've had so much fun. Yeah, this has been a really fun two days. And normally, whenever I talk about this, it's not fun.

• 16:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:36Speaker 02

  So it's been nice.

• 16:40Speaker 00

  So thank you to everyone at the social for making it such a memorable and positive experience. And thanks also to the Kindness Circle for showing up for Jessica. You'll find links to watch our segment on YouTube, the CBC documentary Breaking Idol, our advocacy group, beyondtheverdict.ca, and everything else I mentioned in this little episode in the show notes, or visit canadiantruecrime.ca. I hope you have a great rest of the summer. I'll see you soon with major case updates. Thanks again.