KHC 197 - Jax Siddall

Jax Siddall - highly competitive American distance runner and educator. Jax recently smashed the Eugene Marathon men's course record, running 2:15:02 and securing an Olympic Trials Qualifying time in his very first attempt at the 26.2-mile distance. Jax and Cam cover what it took in training and preparation for Jax to qualify for the Olympic Trials, fueling strategies, running shoe differences, and more! Follow Jax: https://www.instagram.com/jaxpsiddall Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Timestamps: 00:00:00 – Qualifying for the Olympic Trials and Moving to Eugene, OR 00:05:45 – Training for Beating the Record 00:13:08 – Eugene Marathon: The Mindset in Achieving a Time of 02:10: 00:18:52 – The Golden Standard in Running: 26.2 Miles 00:23:34 – A Love for Running at a Young Age 00:30:53 – Training, Raising Hemoglobin, Sponsors, & a Career in Teaching 00:33:52 – Teaching Social Studies, the Netherlands, & Different Cultural Differences 00:43:04 – People that Jax Looks up to 00:50:01 – Running Documentaries on YouTube 00:53:16 – Surges During Marathon Races & Pulling the Group 00:57:10 – Fueling Strategy: Gels, Carbs, and Sodium for Races 01:01:44 – Training with Carbon Plated Running Shoes 01:08:12 – What’s Next: Broken Arrow 23k 01:12:16 – Treadmill Training for Speed and Elevation 01:16:22 – Keeping the Belief: Initial Failure in Competing to Qualify for the Olympic Trials 01:19:43 – Strategic Race Selection: Finding Stronger Competition 01:21:26 – Future Plans in Running & the Olympics 01:23:47 – Final Thoughts Thank you to our sponsors: Sig Sauer: ⁠https://www.sigsauer.com/⁠ use code CAM10 for 10% off optics LMNT: Visit https://drinklmnt.com/cam for a free sample pack with any purchase Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv use code CAM for 10% off Ketone IQ: https://www.ketone.com/Cam use code CAM for 30% off your first subscription Montana Knife Company: https://www.montanaknifecompany.com/ Use code CAM for 10% off Grizzly Coolers: https://www.grizzlycoolers.com/ use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:15Cameron Hanes?

  This is the Keep Hammering, Keep Crammering Collective, otherwise known as Keep Hammering Collective. I'm with Jack Sedell. Dude, it's an honor to have you here. Thank you.

• 0:26Speaker 01

  It's an honor to be here, man.

• 0:28Cameron Hanes?

  This is, uh, so why I wanted you here is you won the Eugene Marathon. It was your first marathon, right?

• 0:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:37Cameron Hanes?

  Course record, qualified for the Olympic, USA Olympic Trials. How amazing is that?

• 0:45Speaker 01

  It's unreal still.

• 0:46Cameron Hanes?

  Did you think that that was gonna happen?

• 0:48Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah. I mean, honestly, at the beginning, I, I was already shooting for 210 and, you know, I was on that pace for a hot minute and things kind of fell apart. But yeah, nonetheless, like the goal was the OTQ and I'm just happy to have that by my name now.

• 1:05Cameron Hanes?

  Dude, I'm, I'm so happy for you. It was such an iconic performance in, you know, we call this a track capital of the world.

• 1:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14Cameron Hanes?

  Eugene, Oregon, what better place to do it? And like, what brought you to Eugene? You kind of mentioned it earlier, but tell me why Eugene?

• 1:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, um, I was planning on running a marathon a little bit earlier, um, Austin Marathon, actually.

• 1:29Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:30Speaker 01

  Um, I got sick that week before and literally couldn't get out of my bed and-

• 1:35Cameron Hanes?

  Let's move that a little closer to you.

• 1:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:36Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. There you go. Yeah. Good. Cool.

• 1:39Speaker 01

  And I, yeah, I just got to the point where it was like, I had to be finding the next race. Like, I knew that it was something that I really wanted to do. And like the marathon in general, I spent so much time grinding it out alone by myself.

• 1:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:55Speaker 01

  That it was kind of like, I, I couldn't just stop there. So then I, you know, was looking around and I found Eugene. And honestly, Eugene, the way they had everything laid out, it was basically like one of the major races. Like it was- Set up so well that I knew it was gonna be a place where it's gonna set me up for success. They had bottles, they had like the whole works. It was just like, you know, maybe not enough in the prize money for a lot of people to come down. But no, like, everybody was out and about and like, the whole Eugene atmosphere just made it all the more special. Like, these people know track, they know running. And yeah, like, the marathon, it gets people who are just like, average day joes.

• 2:40Speaker 01

  And like, especially with Eugene, that's not your typical average day Joe. Like, they are, they're just so caring and they're so into it. And so like, yeah, going into that final straight of Eugene Hayward Field, it was just like, it was magical.

• 2:59Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, people here appreciate an amazing performance. You know, I mean, because they know what it is. To your point, we know track, we know running. We've seen all the legends come through here. Like, for me, I've born and raised here. And so, it's no surprise that when they see somebody coming in and they know the course record time, everybody knows what's going on and then you coming in with, with this performance, it's celebrated. And it's, I mean, I'm just so excited that, that you got to, I wasn't around you when you crossed it or broke the tape, but I saw it, saw it and it's amazing.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:35Cameron Hanes?

  That's pretty cool. I'm just like, just wanted to celebrate you and that accomplishment, really.

• 3:40Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 3:41Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's, uh, it's special and I think one of the things that, that caused me, or I mean, inspired me to really want you here is,

• 3:55Cameron Hanes?

  like, read that, read that first line right there on that article.

• 4:00Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Don't have USA on my jersey. Marathon winner fights against American runners. USA DA tip.

• 4:10Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, so it was calling me the winner. And I'm like, I was telling James, we hadn't even talked to you, but I'm like, Why are they saying I'm the, I finished 70th, right? And it's just like, what are we doing? The guy who won deserves this credit. And so I'm like, he set the course record, OTQ. It's like, why, why is this like, why are you not getting the credit I felt you deserved? So that's when I reached out to you.

• 4:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:36Cameron Hanes?

  And I'm like, I was just talking to, about tonight, talking about you. And then you said, yeah, let's, let's do it. So it's a, that's, that's why you're here. And then, as I explained to you on the run, I get so much like, um, I don't know what, just energy or just, I just love being around elites and just like trying to absorb what I can. And so just being able to run with you and talk with you and share Mount Piskin. We did, I think about eight miles, you said?

• 5:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, 8.4 or something.

• 5:06Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, just to share that with like, you know, a true elite runner is, I mean, it just enhances my life so much. I just, I'm so appreciative.

• 5:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, the not run was, I mean, for me, it was cool too, just seeing Eugene from a different view and, you know, seeing what you see every day, that was special to me as well.

• 5:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, do you like that route we did and everything?

• 5:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was super cool and a little bit technical too. So I was a little bit appreciative of that.

• 5:35Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, and we, we got some decent pace going in there at some point, so.

• 5:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, dude, you were rocking like 545 a little bit there.

• 5:42Cameron Hanes?

  I had to, I had to work, I had to work. But, uh, yeah, so, um, I'm interested, Mike, you said you were on pay, or your goal was 210. So tell me, what, what training led you to believe that you were capable of that? Like, how, how did you know? Just all the, all the time and miles and weeks or what? Element was created by former research biochemist Rob Wolf and has enough sodium, potassium and magnesium to move the needle and get you feeling and performing your best. Plus it has zero sugar, artificial colors or other dodgy ingredients to derail your low carb lifestyle. That's why Element is my go-to electrolyte drink and trusted by many of the world's leading health experts and athletes, including.

• 6:28Cameron Hanes?

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• 7:12Cameron Hanes?

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• 7:56Cameron Hanes?

  perfect shot, I still want to deliver a lethal arrow and a 90 pound bow gives me more room for error. Unfortunately, they don't offer discounts on bows, but if you want to grab some Hoyt merch or selected accessories, you can use my code CAM for 20% off. If you're serious about archery and you want something you can rely on, shoot a Hoyt. Go find one at your local dealer, just like the bow rack here down the street from me, and try it for yourself. Get serious, get Hoyt, and keep hammering.

• 8:30Speaker 01

  So there is like a couple of weeks in there where I did a hundred mile weeks and I was feeling pretty confident in myself and then, um, like I said, I kind of fell apart and so I had to recollect and the week before, actually, I did, it was kind of like an 18 mile tempo run, um, with one up and one down and, um, warm up and one cooldown. And that 18 miles, I was crushing it at like around 530 to 545 pace at 7,000 feet or so. So like, it was kind of like my last affirmation of like, this is something that's possible. And yeah, that last mile, I was hitting like 445

• 9:10Speaker 01

  or something like that. So, and then I was like, well, if I felt that good at 4, like 45, 449 about,

• 9:16Cameron Hanes?

  At 7,000 feet?

• 9:17Speaker 01

  At 7,000 feet, it's not unrealistic.

• 9:19Cameron Hanes?

  And that was after 18 miles?

• 9:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was like that last 18th mile.

• 9:25Cameron Hanes?

  That's, and you felt good. So yeah, I could see where you'd have the confidence.

• 9:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:29Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, man.

• 9:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that said, there's a lot of workout, like there was one workout where I was on the brink of crying and my wife was kind of sitting there next to me and she's like, you just got to suck it up. You gotta, you gotta get through this.

• 9:43Cameron Hanes?

  What was the workout? What went wrong?

• 9:45Speaker 01

  Okay, so it was, uh, right after getting sick, like my lungs were just not working whatsoever. And, um, so I was on the treadmill and it was, um, two by five miles and the goal pace was to finish in 25 minutes for both of those.

• 10:01Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 10:01Speaker 01

  And like, I got through like mile three of that first, um, rep and I literally just sat there for a second and I had to take a break and I was like, I literally can't breathe. This is going terribly. Like, it just kind of getting in my own head about it. And then, um, that's when my wife was just standing there and being supportive and like at first she was kind of like, you got this, like you can do it. And then after that, she's like, you're just gonna. You gotta do it. And lo and behold, that last rep was one of my best reps of running I've ever had.

• 10:32Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, so you were able to hold a five minute pace?

• 10:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's something around there. I think she like backed it off a little bit, but like still nonetheless, like I had to finish it. So.

• 10:43Cameron Hanes?

  Good effort. Yeah. Well, so what was to run the 215? What is that 510?

• 10:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's about like 508. Like, I think that was my average.

• 10:54Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, and but you were faster than that for the for the first however many, how many miles?

• 11:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it was the first 16. And then, yeah, I threw up all my nutrition and kind of had to cut my losses in a few ways. And it was kind of one of these things of like, uh, it was like a yo yo. You're going like fast. And then like, because I threw up, like I had this like pulling sensation in my left hamstring and I was just kind of stuck in this yo yo where it was like, okay, I'm running fast and now I'm walking. And like, but that's the marathon for you, man. It's like, you're not gonna have, I don't believe there's such thing as like a perfect day. You just gotta like grind it out and see how it works out.

• 11:37Cameron Hanes?

  Well, I mean, I'm just has me thinking like, what is your perfect day? If, I mean, you say it's not possible, but if that was not a perfect day, and it was the 215, but you're, you know, shooting for 210 on your first one, what are you capable of?

• 11:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I, I really want to find out.

• 11:59Cameron Hanes?

  What's your ceiling? Do you, I mean, like, if you had like a perfect race, a perfect goal, what do you think your body could run if you if you had to guess?

• 12:06Speaker 01

  Absolute maximum, I would put myself around 204.

• 12:11Cameron Hanes?

  Ooh, 204. Okay.

• 12:13Speaker 01

  But like, that's, you know, doing everything right. And like me not getting in my own way.

• 12:19Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah. No, I know there's a lot, but. That's, you know, that's amazing to, to, to think or to believe that your body's capable of that and you're capable of that as an athlete. That means a lot because, because there's people that have, might have that ability, but would never give themselves the permission to believe it. Do you know what I'm saying?

• 12:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:41Cameron Hanes?

  So the fact that you can say it, that is powerful.

• 12:45Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 12:45Cameron Hanes?

  I mean,

• 12:47Speaker 01

  It's a little bit delusional, but.

• 12:48Cameron Hanes?

  No, but hey, that's, that's life sometimes.

• 12:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:50Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, if I would have told people my goals when I was young, they would say, whatever's worse than delusional, that'd be me. So sometimes that's what it takes.

• 13:00Speaker 01

  Oh, without a doubt. Yeah.

• 13:02Cameron Hanes?

  Um, yeah, that, okay. So I, I wanted to go back. Um, you had, you're thinking 210 potential, but you had your mom and dad come out. Did I hear that?

• 13:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:13Cameron Hanes?

  Earlier?

• 13:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:14Cameron Hanes?

  So you had to think that there's, there's opportunity for something special to happen.

• 13:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:20Cameron Hanes?

  Right? Cause otherwise they wouldn't have come.

• 13:22Speaker 01

  Oh, for sure.

• 13:23Cameron Hanes?

  So what was that? What was your mindset going in?

• 13:26Speaker 01

  Mindset going in was, yeah, I mean, I even put in the, um, so like they make you pick a time on when you're like estimated to finish. And I put 210. And so like the whole time, my whole mentality was like, I don't care if there's nobody with me. I'm just going to go and do my own thing. And, um, yeah, it was kind of nerve wracking because even the day before we're having like the meeting and they're telling us all the logistics of the bottles and just a bunch of stuff that I don't know about. And so like, I'm sitting there shaking in my boots. I'm scared as heck, but, um, yeah, lo and behold, I'm just happy that like, um, I, I have a tendency to

• 14:06Speaker 01

  get nervous in the moment, but then like, once it comes time, like I settle down and it's just, at that point, I'm just doing my own thing and I'm out there running. And that's the beauty of it. It's just you and yourself.

• 14:18Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, no, that's for sure. Well, how many, how many other elites in the marathon were there?

• 14:24Speaker 01

  Um, well, I think there was like, uh, there was a good amount. I, I couldn't say I, I wasn't really with them that long.

• 14:32Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 14:32Speaker 01

  But, um, yeah, I would say there was a good like thirty years.

• 14:36Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 14:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:36Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, wow.

• 14:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Um, yeah, I know there was a good group of women going for the OTQ also.

• 14:43Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 14:43Cameron Hanes?

  Some pretty good, good women in there. I didn't know what, who the men were, or if, or if there was some, you know, I didn't know who they were.

• 14:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:52Cameron Hanes?

  Or how many there were, but I've never been involved in that end of it. I'm back with the scrubs in the back. But I still love it. I mean, I just want to say this too. It's like you kind of mentioned it, but the Eugene Marathon is such a, it's like an anchor to this community. It's such a special race. And, you know, I, I just hate that there's been kind of a negative thing that I guess I'm responsible for with this race because I love, I love it. I, I didn't run it last year. I was hurt, but I still went over there and Truitt was running and Tanner, my oldest son, was running. And I still went over there and was part of the community just because it, it's so special.

• 15:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:32Cameron Hanes?

  And, um, yeah, I just, I just want to, I just want to tell people, and you kind of mentioned it too, that this marathon is like a major, but it's not a major, but it's run like a major. You know what I mean? Like the, the race director is just this, uh, iconic coach. Uh, he's been around forever. Everybody respects him and the race is just put on at the highest level. And I just, it just means so much that this is my hometown.

• 15:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:59Cameron Hanes?

  Love it.

• 15:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. I honestly like, I couldn't say that I could find many marathons like it in probably the entire world, but.

• 16:07Cameron Hanes?

  So, and it's crazy that I can just sleep in my bed and dr- drive over there in the morning.

• 16:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:13Cameron Hanes?

  That's why I've done it about, I don't even know how many times, many times. Um. So what were you thinking? Did you preview the course at all?

• 16:21Speaker 01

  Uh, so I went on YouTube and I basically just, they have like this really fast forwarded version of like the course. And so like, you don't really know where the turn or anything like that. So it wasn't too informational, but then also I looked at like the elevation map, which is pretty flat. So there wasn't much going on there. And yeah, so like, I didn't really think too much about it. I know my parents and I, the day before, we kind of just went around town and saw the parts that we could see.

• 16:50Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 16:51Speaker 01

  But, um, yeah, aside from that, there wasn't much prep going on.

• 16:55Cameron Hanes?

  All I was cognizant of was, uh, not going out too, for me, I'll just tell you how what I think, you tell me what you think. But I was, didn't want to go out too fast because that first like, you are kind of climbing before you go and do the turnaround and come back.

• 17:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:10Cameron Hanes?

  It is kind of up. And I was thinking, if I go out, because you're feeling, for me, fresh would be like running a 550 up that. And then I'd probably blow up. So I was like, really trying to be like 605 at that, doing that climb up to about mile five. And then 545 coming back down. But I was trying to be like, let's be conservative to start. So I had something at the end. You know what I mean? That's, that was my, but you probably didn't even notice that, did you? Or did you notice that little grind?

• 17:39Speaker 01

  I, I noticed it a little bit. I kind of ran stupid.

• 17:44Cameron Hanes?

  What were you, what were you running there? Like, under fives?

• 17:47Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. I was running like 448s for a good like portion of it. And, um, yeah, like, I was just kind of like feeling the course out and feeling the competition out a little bit. And even my coach afterwards was like, yeah, we need to work on your pacing plan because you did not run that. Like, we literally, she told me to go out in 505s and just kind of feel it out and see if I could progress. And I-

• 18:11Cameron Hanes?

  You're like, no, I know better than you.

• 18:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. Right? Like, what, what's a race plan for anyways?

• 18:17Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. It's just an idea.

• 18:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's all theoretical.

• 18:20Cameron Hanes?

  Right, right.

• 18:21Speaker 01

  But, um, and that's kind of the way I treat a lot of things. And I kind of treated it like- In my opinion, um, so like there's this group that I occasionally run with, which is Army W cap. And every Sunday they just hammer their long runs like they'll run five 20 pace for like 18, 20 miles at 7,000 feet. So like, I just kind of treated it like that. Like, how long can I hold on to that pace before I just break? And yeah, treating it like that was probably the best move.

• 18:49Cameron Hanes?

  16 miles.

• 18:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, 16 miles.

• 18:52Cameron Hanes?

  But you know what? What I'm thinking is like, so you, you held say under fives for 16.

• 18:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:00Cameron Hanes?

  Right? So you know, you got 16 of the 26, you got, you're in shape for that, right? So how did we develop that last 10? Cause what you need to do is get to where you can hold sub five for 26. So now you know, okay, here's, I'm, I'm to here. Now I just need to develop and maybe it's just the nutrition and the puking didn't help anything. But at least you got, you know, you got 16 in you at world class pace. So now you just, that next 10, what do we, what do we do?

• 19:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:31Cameron Hanes?

  And then you're, then you're like with the best in the world.

• 19:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, hopefully.

• 19:36Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, wh- what do they run? What is a 204?

• 19:40Speaker 01

  I, I couldn't tell you. It's pretty quick. I think you're hovering around that 445 or so. Yeah.

• 19:46Cameron Hanes?

  I know, uh, we talked about Ben Blankenship earlier. He's got the, there's a, uh, 10K on the 4th of July. It's called the Butte to Butte. So it starts on at Spencer's Butte or like the basis Spencer's and goes all the way downtown. But it's a, he has a course record and you run 444s. And I remember like, how could anybody run 444 for six miles, you know? And that, and that's what they do the marathon at.

• 20:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:12Cameron Hanes?

  And that's what you were doing. It's just like nuts. It's so fast, dude. It's sprinting.

• 20:17Speaker 01

  That's what I love about the marathon though. It's kind of like that last distance where like it's, you, you're kind of making it out to be a sprint in a way, like you're trying to go as fast as you can for as long as you can. I think 50K you can kind of argue for it, but like that 26.2, it's just that golden standard of like, everybody comes out and like, I mean, you see it with the best of the best, like these guys, especially in American distance running right now, they're all pushing each other to see like how fast can we truly go?

• 20:45Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 20:46Speaker 01

  And like, what kind of splits can we hit? Like now, running on the roads and having a little bit of experience, like, it's amazing because like you go out in that first mile or first two miles and it's like, you're bound to hit four thirties. Like you just, you, you gotta suck it up.

• 21:00Cameron Hanes?

  So fast.

• 21:01Speaker 01

  But then they, they come back.

• 21:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 21:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:04Cameron Hanes?

  But still, it's a, like, what's your fastest mile?

• 21:07Speaker 01

  Uh, four oh three.

• 21:09Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 21:09Speaker 01

  Never got a real good shot at it. Like I had a few, but like, my last year in college, I kind of was taking the 10K training a little bit more seriously. So like I ran four oh three, um, three times in one weekend, in the span of two days, actually.

• 21:25Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, really?

• 21:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:26Cameron Hanes?

  Jeez.

• 21:27Speaker 01

  So that, it's not a true PB at that point.

• 21:31Cameron Hanes?

  No, but yeah, it makes you wonder, I mean, every, all runners do this, well, what if I really focused on that? Could I, could I get that? Well, I've never thought sub four, but for you, I'd be thinking, man, if I had a dedicated whatever block, I could get that sub four.

• 21:46Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 21:47Cameron Hanes?

  I know you could. But, oh man, it's just so exciting to, to think about, because you're still so young, but you, you understand, like you've been in the scene for, you know, you know how, like a challenge I've always had is I never was in the running scene. So I don't even know the strategy, but you know it, but then also like you're, seems like you're peaking now, or maybe found, finally found your event.

• 22:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:13Cameron Hanes?

  Cause maybe those other, those other events weren't yours, or where, where you can, you know, excel, and now you found it and you're young and you know, know what it takes. And so here we go.

• 22:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Now it's off to the races. Like it, it's so fun because um, now it's like, I think it's just a matter of like, you know, breaking that two 10 and who can I beat from here? It's just like, what kind of heads can I get? And um, yeah, it's going to be gnarly to see where we go from here.

• 22:43Cameron Hanes?

  What's uh, so I know Connor, he ran two oh four.

• 22:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:47Cameron Hanes?

  What did Clayton run? Do you know? What's his best?

• 22:49Speaker 01

  Off the top of my head, I have no clue. I think he was right around like that two oh, I want to say two oh seven, two oh eight.

• 22:56Cameron Hanes?

  And, and then it seems like the, so it seems like those two have been like one and two for a while.

• 23:03Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 23:04Cameron Hanes?

  Then the third was that army guy, right?

• 23:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:07Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 23:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:08Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And so could you sneak in the third spot?

• 23:13Speaker 01

  Well, there's a lot of work that has to happen between now and then, but luckily,

• 23:18Cameron Hanes?

  theoretically.

• 23:18Speaker 01

  time's on my side. I got that.

• 23:20Cameron Hanes?

  I know.

• 23:21Speaker 01

  OTQ quick, so.

• 23:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So now you can just fine tune.

• 23:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 23:26Cameron Hanes?

  Man, oh, that's gonna be, I'm just so pumped for you. What, what a, what a journey.

• 23:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:33Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, so tell me about like, you said you grew up where?

• 23:38Speaker 01

  Uh, in Lebanon, Ohio.

• 23:40Cameron Hanes?

  Lebanon, Ohio.

• 23:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, right outside of Cincinnati.

• 23:43Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 23:44Speaker 01

  Um, but I went to Eastern Kentucky University.

• 23:47Cameron Hanes?

  Well, so were you always good at running?

• 23:50Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, from a young age, I think I had like this, um, talent for it, but I don't think I actually, um, put much time or thought into it. And, um, especially in high school, I think a lot of people envy me for, um, I, at one point I was the first kid to play soccer and run cross country at the same time for our schools, like dual sport. And so like, I would just practice soccer all week and then show out for cross country and end up like placing at these meets.

• 24:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 24:22Speaker 01

  Um, from there, the journey kind of like junior year, I was like, all right, like I kind of want to settle in on this and I want to go all in. I want to see what I'm capable of. And I think from there, um, it just kept on getting better and better. But then I was playing a game of catch up every single time because, um, it was a matter of, I was at a point where I was good, but not good enough to be considered for like national rankings or anything like that. And it kind of, um, just felt like I was always in this cycle. And, um, yeah, it was kind of tragic in a lot of ways, even going into my last year of, uh, track.

• 25:04Speaker 01

  I was like three, four spots off from making it to regionals, which I know if I got into regionals, that race is set up for me in a way where it comes down to that last. 400 meters and everybody's kicking.

• 25:16Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 25:16Speaker 01

  And I was like, oh, man, if I could just get into that race, I'm going to nationals.

• 25:19Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 25:20Speaker 01

  I was just a smidge off, so. But I think that's the what got me here, to be honest.

• 25:25Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 25:25Speaker 01

  It just lit a fire in me and here we are.

• 25:28Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I mean, because once you're in that, if you're in the like 15, 5,000, 10,000, that's tough.

• 25:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:35Cameron Hanes?

  And you can be in there for a long time, fighting for those, the spots on the world team or, or whatever.

• 25:43Cameron Hanes?

  But yeah, the marathon, it seems like the guys, once they, you know, once their speed goes a little bit in the shorter distance, then they go like, like, who am I thinking of? Grant Fisher.

• 25:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:56Cameron Hanes?

  You know, and maybe that's not the ideal way to do it. Maybe just focusing, coming out of college, right into the marathon.

• 26:02Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 26:03Cameron Hanes?

  You know?

• 26:03Speaker 01

  I mean, that's what I did.

• 26:04Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 26:04Speaker 01

  It worked out great.

• 26:05Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 26:06Speaker 01

  It's, I truly think that's my race at this point. Like, that's what I have to focus on and build around.

• 26:12Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that's exciting. And do you think that like doing the both, the soccer and the cross country and the running?

• 26:20Cameron Hanes?

  So you didn't get recruited maybe to the, to the premier programs? Because

• 26:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:25Cameron Hanes?

  Nobody really knew how good you were because you're kind of dabbling in both.

• 26:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I ran one 415 mile when I was a kid and I was like, you know, at that time, that was pretty decent, but it wasn't like, you know, you're winning anything. Like I was, I think 13th in my state. So it was like, you know, you're kind of just getting overshadowed that whole time. And luckily Eastern Kentucky had a second thought and believed in me and they let me walk on and yeah, even in college, like I was getting my butt kicked every single day and just being a walk on for that team. It was really special going for, going from that walk on position to being full ride and just being like a part of a program and feeling like you mean something.

• 27:09Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 27:09Speaker 01

  Oh, man, that was like the sweetest feeling, so.

• 27:12Cameron Hanes?

  I bet.

• 27:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:13Cameron Hanes?

  That's a big deal. I mean, I use ketone IQ when I need to stay sharp for the long haul. Long runs, lifting before I shoot my bow. Even when I'm podcasting, anytime I want steady focus without crashing. What I like about it is how it feels. It helps me stay locked in during long efforts and mentally demanding sessions. Not jittery, not wired, just clear and steady. Ketones are your brain's preferred fuel source. So instead of that spiked caffeine feeling, the focus feels calm and controlled. It lets me push without leaning on caffeine or sugar. I'm not chasing another cup of coffee or something sweet just to get through a workout or a long day.

• 27:58Cameron Hanes?

  I can train, work, and think without that roller coaster of energy. Physically, I feel ready to go. Mentally, I'm locked in. That combination matters when you're putting in long hours and real work. Visit ketone.com backslash cam for 30% off your subscription order. Plus receive a free gift with your second shipment. Or find Ketone IQ at Target stores nationwide in the hydration and protein aisle and get your first shot free. When you're deep in the backcountry and everything depends on your gear, your knife can't be the weak link. That's why I teamed up with Montana Knife Company to build the Keep Hammering Pack Out. What matters to me in all things is performance.

• 28:42Cameron Hanes?

  The Pack Out is built to do one thing really well, break down animals efficiently. The blade shape gives you control when skinning, the steel holds an edge, and it's light enough that you don't think twice about carrying it all day. When you're tired, cold, and working on an animal miles from the truck, simple and reliable are everything. Montana Knife Company is American made, and that matters to me. I know Josh Smith personally, and he doesn't cut corners. He cares about quality, doing things the right way, and about building products here in the USA that actually perform in the field. That's why I trust this knife. If you want to check it out, head to montanaknifecompany.com.

• 29:22Cameron Hanes?

  And right now, podcast listeners, get 10% off any knife with code CAM10. C I M 10. To keep hammering pack out, built for the back country, built to work. Cause a walk on is like, yeah, you're getting a shot. Cause I remember I walked on to play football and like you're sort of on the team, sort of just like, you still gotta earn it.

• 29:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So to earn a full ride is probably felt amazing.

• 29:49Speaker 01

  Oh, man. And that was like, I remember like, it was just kind of a weight lifted off my shoulders. It felt like I could actually just focus on academics and running.

• 29:59Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 30:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:01Cameron Hanes?

  When did that happen? What year?

• 30:02Speaker 01

  Uh, I believe it was right around like my junior year.

• 30:05Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 30:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:06Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 30:06Speaker 01

  That was like right out, basically right after I ran like a 14, 12, 5K. They were like, yeah, all right. We, we gotta give you a shot now.

• 30:14Cameron Hanes?

  That's a good time. Yeah. It's a good time. It's a, yeah. Hey, that's life, you know?

• 30:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:22Cameron Hanes?

  It doesn't always go to, to how we want or, or how we plan, but roll with the punches and here you are.

• 30:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:29Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 30:29Speaker 01

  You know, like that's the, it's, I would not have it any other way to be completely honest. Like I think I've learned a lot about myself and I've learned a lot about how to treat situations and not to take anything for granted. Like you really do have to work for everything. And yeah, it's just exciting to be in the position where I am, where I can say I'm a success story.

• 30:52Cameron Hanes?

  No, definitely. And now you're, so you live in Colorado, you train at elevation. Tell me what's your training like now? I mean, you mentioned a couple of hundred mile weeks, but

• 31:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:02Cameron Hanes?

  What's your goal usually each week?

• 31:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. So we actually backed it off. So I kind of get away with a little bit less mileage. I do about 80 to 90. And luckily altitude kind of plays an effect with that, that it's raising your hemoglobin. So like your red blood cells are producing more oxygen. And the nice part about that is you can kind of go slower and do less while still getting the benefits of like, if you were down at sea level, say like in Florida, you're doing like a hundred and 20 miles, like an 80 mile week's going to serve you probably just about the same amount. So, um, yeah, like doing that, it, it's kind of like. Backing off and um it it's hard because like I'm working a full time job as a teacher as well.

• 31:48Speaker 01

  So um like there's days where like I'll spend like there's uh there was a typical Wednesday where I would spend like twenty miles after work and it's just like I stay up till like nine P M just running and then it's like to bed and then back out the door.

• 32:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 32:04Speaker 01

  So.

• 32:05Cameron Hanes?

  That's tough.

• 32:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's tough, but like that's what it takes to be good.

• 32:09Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, no, it does. It's a, yeah, it's like such a grind. And then if you can get a sponsorship, I mean, could you imagine? You know, to be sponsored and like all you have to focus on is your health and running.

• 32:22Speaker 01

  Oh, it'd be beautiful.

• 32:23Cameron Hanes?

  And the people that make that is such a huge advantage because instead of burning the candle at both ends, it's like it's kind of what I had to deal with, you know, till I retired. It's just like you're never at your best. You're always just like doing the best you can, but you know, it's not perfect.

• 32:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:41Cameron Hanes?

  And so earning that sponsor for you to earn a sponsorship to be able to go all in like with the recovery and the massage and the diet and the training. It's like that's where that two oh four becomes, you know, definitely a thing.

• 32:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:56Cameron Hanes?

  And uh but yeah, it's like getting to that. Of course, everybody wants that. Who doesn't want to be a full time sponsored athlete?

• 33:02Speaker 01

  Right.

• 33:02Cameron Hanes?

  So how do we, how do we make that happen? Like, like, what's your plan for making that happen?

• 33:09Speaker 01

  Oh, so yeah, right now, uh I've been kind of a bit of a crossroads with how to make things happen. It's um so my school year just ended and I'm kind of deciding between different paths to take. Like also my wife lives over in the Netherlands, so um I'm trying to figure out a way to move over there and try and make things work or um just stay where I'm at and maybe not work a full time job as a teacher and maybe just sub on the side or, you know, give myself a little bit more leeway so that way on those days that I do need to recover, I'm not just, you know, standing up, walking around, like having to teach kids.

• 33:48Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah, you're off your feet.

• 33:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

• 33:52Cameron Hanes?

  What, what do you teach?

• 33:53Speaker 01

  Uh, sixth grade, English and social studies.

• 33:56Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, okay.

• 33:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:57Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Well, do you like it? I mean, other than it screws up your training?

• 34:00Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, I love it. I'm, it's in a weird way. I want to trade it for anything like that's like, you know, it, that's the all, it's like my alter ego when I go run because like being a teacher, like to me, that always comes first and being like a professional has always meant something to me. So just being able to, you know, help that next generation out and especially with English and social studies, it's a little bit more conversational. It's not so straightforward as math.

• 34:28Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 34:28Speaker 01

  So like, it's just fun to hang out with the kids and talk about how we can manipulate the language or like who was important at this time and why it's important. So, yeah, it's just, it's a blast.

• 34:40Cameron Hanes?

  I, I love social studies. It was just like always interesting learning how I think it's like, even when I go and hunt now, I always want to learn about different cultures, uh, like the things that different people have to go through in different places, parts of the world.

• 34:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:55Cameron Hanes?

  And, uh, like going to Tanzania, when I hunted there, I was there for three weeks and just like, they speak Swahili and they can track animals. And it's just like, it's a, a, obviously a whole different existence, but it's so fascinating to me. To me, that's social studies.

• 35:10Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 35:11Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 35:11Speaker 01

  Without a doubt.

• 35:12Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 35:12Speaker 01

  That, that's, and that's what I tried teaching my kids. Like, we even had tables where it's set, like I had them labeled as different countries because like I really did want them to learn that like social studies isn't just limited to the United States. Like it's a worldwide study that you're able to learn about people. Like to me, being around so many cultures throughout my lifetime, it's kind of like, it, it's a disservice that we don't know more. Like I have like this, um, like I just have this craving where I just want to know more and more about different cultures and try to get to know about them. So that way, I think it teaches you a little bit about like people and also yourself a little bit. And it's, um, yeah. So like I was always kind of growing up just like a geography nerd. Like I was always

• 35:56Speaker 01

  looking at maps and just like figuring out where things are. And I remember even in college, like we had this one. Class where they it was a geography class and they made us memorize where these countries were. And so like I had to, um, I was always like the first one done and I finished in like two seconds because I already knew where they were.

• 36:14Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 36:15Speaker 01

  Played like this weird memorized game that lets me remember like all of Africa or something like that. And it was just, the professor was always amazed by like how fast I got done, but it was fun.

• 36:26Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. What, where was your favorite place?

• 36:28Speaker 01

  Um, my favorite place right now has to be the, I mean, obviously I'm biased because my wife's from there. But the Netherlands is just such a cool place because it's so, it's so different from how we treat things. Like there's bikes everywhere, public transport is just like, it's so easy to get to. And then on, on top of that, like they do speak English, but there is like a traditional sense of like, you know, their language is, does come first. And so like, being able to kind of dive into that language and figure that out has just been like a blast. But then at the same time, um, like I've had roommates from Morocco and Tunisia and they're always teaching me about their customs and especially like Arabic culture.

• 37:10Speaker 01

  It's so different from like how I was raised. So like, it was always fun to learn about like how they see things and.

• 37:17Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And I don't think, I don't think we were taught, I don't want to say the truth, but it seems like we don't have a real clear understanding of the culture.

• 37:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:29Cameron Hanes?

  I think what we were fed isn't necessarily accurate.

• 37:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's, you know, everybody, they, it's just what you are raised with. And I think again, it goes back to being a social studies teacher. It's like, who's telling you that information and where are you getting the information from? So I think that's where I come in and I'm, it's like, yeah, like, so I have all these different perspectives that I can share and stories that I can share with these kids that hopefully like, you know, by some wayside, like they learn something from it. So.

• 38:00Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's a, you know, I took my kids to Africa because, you know, so many people think that the whole world's like this here, you know, and it's not. And so. Um, I wanted them to experience another culture. So I took them there and I remember it true. It was, God, I think he was either 11 or 14, but pretty small. And, um, so he, we did the hunt. He got a couple of animals and, and I, you know, I, he got the animals that I was thinking he, he should hunt. And so then we were done and I said, okay, I said, you're gonna, I'm gonna go out hunting. You're gonna stay with, in the skinning shack all day with the guys. Would, these are, you know, the, the Africans there. They speak Swahili. They don't speak English at

• 38:44Cameron Hanes?

  all and they're, they're skinning these animals. And I said, I want you to help them all day in the skinning shack. And I didn't know how that would go or what he'd learned, but I just knew that this what you need to do.

• 38:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:55Cameron Hanes?

  And so all day he was in there and I don't even know what really happened, but I just wanted to take advantage of just seeing different people and how they live and how they operate and what they have to focus on, what their job is, you know, and then their challenge, you kind of learn about their challenges too. When you, when you're immersed in their job, you see the struggles they have and, and it just, it opens your eyes to stuff that we wouldn't know otherwise. And yeah, I just, it's so important. And then I've been lucky enough to travel, but mo, a lot of people aren't, you know? And so I understand why people might have a more closed minded approach to different places of the world because they don't know any different.

• 39:36Speaker 01

  And how would you?

• 39:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And how would you? So, yeah, I used to, Mr. Joel, he was my social studies teacher in high school. He's also the baseball coach and he was pretty intense, but that was always my, my favorite class, social studies, just because of just people and, and how they live. It's fascinating.

• 39:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. And that, that's what you were saying before. I have a friend who was Kenyan and he came over here and he was like, dude, you don't even know, like, you don't know how poor you are until you get here and then you see everything. And it's like, it completely readjusts everything that you have believed or saw. So.

• 40:13Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I just, I think it's amazing how.

• 40:18Cameron Hanes?

  We're so lucky. I mean, and why are we lucky? Cause we were born in the United States.

• 40:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:23Cameron Hanes?

  I didn't do anything. I didn't deserve that. I didn't earn that. I'm just here.

• 40:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:28Cameron Hanes?

  If I was born in Africa, for some, some of those people, they could be the smartest in the world, the most athletic, the most gifted, and no one will ever know.

• 40:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:40Cameron Hanes?

  You know, because there's no way to make it out. There's no way to, to show you. I mean, we can dream here. We can have a dream. I want to be this. In some places, what was dreaming? Dreaming is like, that's a waste of time. Cause it's never gonna happen.

• 40:57Speaker 01

  Other things to get done. There's shots to be done. Yeah.

• 41:00Cameron Hanes?

  We've got to eat. We've got to, you know, find shelter. And it's just like, we are so fortunate to have this ability to dream.

• 41:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:08Cameron Hanes?

  And just say, if you just work hard, you can do it. You can do anything. And that's true here. That's not true everywhere. And so just, just recognizing that fact and appreciating that is powerful. And it's like, and it, I think it's like, it's mandatory, it's necessary.

• 41:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:26Cameron Hanes?

  We need to understand that, that we can be sympathetic for different, or, or just like be more cognizant of challenges in other places that we're just lucky enough to be here.

• 41:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, it's a blessing to even say that I have ambitions to run 204, you know? Like, some people are depending on a, a 20 whatever to feed a family and like, that's going back to Kenya. They can provide for their families. And that's the way of life, you know? Like, when it gets to the nitty gritty, like, that's running for them is like, it's their opportunity to make things work. Whereas like for us, it's like, you know, you just get to see how much you get to suffer and you, you know, if you don't get it, then you get to try again. So.

• 42:10Cameron Hanes?

  I know.

• 42:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:11Cameron Hanes?

  We're pretty lucky, but I think that knowledge that you're sharing and then the stories that we have, and then like even talking about it here, I'm not saying it's changing the world, but hopefully it's like, resonates with somebody, one person.

• 42:25Speaker 01

  Hopefully.

• 42:25Cameron Hanes?

  And just be like, oh yeah, never. Thought about that, you know, so, cause I know, and I'm not trying to seem like I'm worldly and know all this stuff. I didn't know shit for most of my life, right? So I'm slowly learning, but I can appreciate that, you know, we're very fortunate to be here. And this bit, I mean, what is this, a Thursday? We're sitting here talking about running.

• 42:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, man, it's awesome.

• 42:52Cameron Hanes?

  We had a great breakfast, you shot a bow, we went, we had a good mountain run. It's like, we are the lucky ones for sure.

• 42:59Speaker 01

  Without a doubt.

• 43:00Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Um, so I was so curious, like, who were your, like, did you have soccer heroes that you wanted to be like? Or running heroes when you're young?

• 43:10Speaker 01

  It was, it was a hodgepodge of people, honestly, like coming from Ohio, like, obviously LeBron James is up there for you, like.

• 43:17Cameron Hanes?

  Not, not above Michael.

• 43:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:19Cameron Hanes?

  Come on now.

• 43:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, it can't be, but.

• 43:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I hear you.

• 43:23Speaker 01

  But, um, then you have, like, I mean, like, we were talking about it at the bow shop, like, Des Linden, ever since she won Boston, like, she kind of was my hero. I was like, oh, man, like, that, that's something maybe that I want to do someday. And that was like the first time that I actually gave thought to like the marathon at all. And that's all the way, I think, back in like 2017, 2018. And, um, but yeah, like, so her and then like you, Matthew Centralitz, obviously, like him winning that iconic race at the Olympics was just like, it was one of those things where it's like, oh, that guy's a baller. Like, I want to be like that guy. And then, um, yeah, Ronaldo, obviously Ronaldo is kind of just, most of the Nike people, honestly.

• 44:07Speaker 01

  Like, those guys are, um, always someone that I would always look up to. But yeah, Ronaldo and then Neymar, like, oh, man, as a kid, like, I would bleach my hair like Neymar. And try to have the same exact haircut. Yeah. But probably my biggest hero, but.

• 44:23Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 44:24Speaker 01

  All the rest are all the same.

• 44:26Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I, that's, let's see, I think it was 2016 in Rio when Central won that gold. Yeah, that was.

• 44:33Speaker 01

  Legendary.

• 44:34Cameron Hanes?

  I've watched that like probably 10 times.

• 44:36Speaker 01

  I think I tried to emulate his race way too much because like the people always uh even after Eugene, people were like, oh, man, he's falling off. And um my friend texted me afterwards and he's like, yeah, I was just waiting for that legendary kick. Like I know you always have that kick at the end.

• 44:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 44:53Speaker 01

  And luckily, that that's exactly what happened. But um yeah, I think I tried to emulate that a little too much throughout my running career.

• 45:01Cameron Hanes?

  Hold on for that kick and then blow by everybody.

• 45:03Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 45:05Cameron Hanes?

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• 45:45Cameron Hanes?

  code KEEPHAMMERING. And that's all one word. And I'm not going to spell it. Keep hammering. Again, keep hammering, one word for 20% off. Don't roll with weak gear. Go Grizzly. One of the hardest parts of hunting is glassing big country to find animals you know are there. That's why I run Sig Sauer Zulu imaging stabilizing binoculars when I'm covering a lot of ground and need to see everything. These binos are a complete game changer. After long climbs, when your heart rate's up and your hands aren't steady, shaky glass makes it hard to stay locked in. With image stabilization, everything settles down. You can slow the

• 46:29Cameron Hanes?

  process, really pick apart the country, and catch movement you'd normally miss. I've found more animals and saved a ton of time because of these binos. I actually just talked about how impressive this technology is on the most recent episode of the Joe Rogan Experience. Once you use stabilized glass It's hard to go back. It gives you a real advantage when you're hunting big, open terrain. And here's the rare part. Optics companies almost never offer discounts, but SIG is giving listeners of this podcast 10% off. Just use code CAM at checkout. So if you're serious about glassing and want the same edge I've had the past couple of seasons, head to sigsauer.com, grab a pair of

• 47:11Cameron Hanes?

  Zulu binos and use code CAM for 10% off. Sig Sauer Zulu Binoculars. See more, miss less, keep hammering. Yeah. Do you know, uh, have you ever heard of Nick Simmons?

• 47:23Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 47:24Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So remember his kick?

• 47:26Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 47:26Cameron Hanes?

  So he could be last in the 800. I think 800, two laps and somehow come on that back stretch and just blow by everybody and then come to the home stretch and hold them off.

• 47:38Speaker 01

  Well, I think that's why they called him the bull, right?

• 47:39Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 47:40Speaker 01

  He's just like this strong dude that's just like blowing past guys.

• 47:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And we were talking about this because I tried to run my fastest mile with him over on that sodas track we were talking about today.

• 47:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:53Cameron Hanes?

  And, uh, what, like I was hurt, like I always was, so I didn't do that good. But anyway, we're talking about how I remember having this conversation with him. He's like the exact opposite of Pre because Pre would say the best pace is a suicide pace and today is a good day to die. So he wanted to go out because he didn't have that kick.

• 48:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:13Cameron Hanes?

  So he had to break them early.

• 48:15Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 48:15Cameron Hanes?

  You know, wear them down and then they just fall off trying to keep up. Whereas Nick just wants to go, you know, hang tight and then blow by. So I just love the strategy of running.

• 48:26Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. There's plenty of ways. In, uh, in Appalachia, there's a good quote that I heard, which is there's many ways to skin a cat. And yeah, that's like it for running. That's right on because like you'll see like especially the Kenyans will go out and they'll just blow up that first like it's like a 5K, that first two miles, you know, they're just trying to break everybody. And then like that last mile, you see them kind of just going backwards.

• 48:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 48:53Speaker 01

  And then, um, vice versa, like there's guys that like literally. They just hold on for that last eight hundred, four hundred. And yeah, they're like, you won't see them even in the picture. I mean, look at Cole Hocker, like that guy. Like it lasts four hundred meters. You don't know where he is. And then last one hundred, you certainly do. So.

• 49:10Cameron Hanes?

  Crazy.

• 49:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:12Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, when he ran, we were talking about that fifty or fifty one second four hundred to to win. I can't remember what race it was, but it's flying, dude.

• 49:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:21Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's flying. Was that who we're talking about with the fifty? Or?

• 49:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was him. Yeah.

• 49:26Cameron Hanes?

  Um, but also, why are they skinning cats in Appalachia?

• 49:30Speaker 01

  I don't know. I couldn't tell you. There's a lot of stuff going on in Appalachia that I can't figure out.

• 49:36Cameron Hanes?

  I'm just kidding. It is a saying I've heard too, but I never thought about, why are we skinning cats? Why is there different ways to do this? Can we just leave the cats alone?

• 49:45Speaker 01

  How are people figuring this out?

• 49:47Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Um, so yeah, the, the running heroes, Centro. Uh, yeah, I mean, I, I'm like the biggest fan of track, which is, you know, whatever, since I've never run it, but sometimes at night I just watch like YouTube videos of running.

• 50:05Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 50:05Cameron Hanes?

  Do you ever do that?

• 50:06Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. There's like, so we, it was almost like an initiation for our team in college. Like we had like, there's this one race and it's with Edward Cheserick. And it's the Penn Relays, uh, four by mile. And so like, everybody, like, have you seen it before?

• 50:22Cameron Hanes?

  No.

• 50:22Speaker 01

  So you have to watch it. So like he is, everybody is focused on Edward Cheserick and nobody wants to go out.

• 50:30Cameron Hanes?

  Did he run at Oregon?

• 50:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, okay, yeah.

• 50:32Speaker 01

  He's like infamous at work. But like, yeah, so like, they're literally walking on the track because Edward won't take it. And so like, the announcers are going crazy. They're

• 50:45Cameron Hanes?

  They're going so slow.

• 50:46Speaker 01

  They're freaking out. They're like, why are they walking on the track? And then like, it comes down to that last four hundred meters and you see Edward just boom, he's gone. And then there's this one Villanova guy, I think, and he's just like, keeps up in that last two hundred meters. They duke it out and he actually ended up losing. But like, it was the most wild race to watch. So we, we would always show that to like the freshmen and we're like, don't ever do that.

• 51:14Cameron Hanes?

  How, why is it that, you know, the Olympics are like that a lot time too? Because what is, do people? Uh, like they don't wanna, I don't know. I, why do they, why are they, was it so tactical?

• 51:26Speaker 01

  Um, I think it's just the mentality of nobody wants to be the guy to give up the pace. And like, they don't wanna waste more energy than they ever have to.

• 51:36Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 51:36Speaker 01

  Cause at the end of the day, it does come down to that kick. So the more energy you have for the kick, then the more likely you're gonna do better. Uh, so, um, personally though, I don't like to do that. So like in championship races, I was always the guy who would take it out. I was kind of like not so nice. And, and that was like those three, four oh threes, right? Like it was just me consistently running the same pace. I was like, I don't care what you guys are gonna do. I'm gonna try and PB every single time.

• 52:04Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I love it. Yeah, it's a, it, well, I mean, talking about that conserving energy. Did you ever, have you seen Without Limits, that movie, the pre-movie?

• 52:15Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 52:17Cameron Hanes?

  Well, you know, you know how he, like in the Olympic, when he actually, not the actor, but the real pre, ran in the Olympics, he took the lead twice in the 5000, which they're saying that that seldom happens. Like normally you get one shot at the lead.

• 52:31Speaker 01

  And then you're back.

• 52:32Cameron Hanes?

  And then you're done, right? You gave all you got and then you blow up. Well, he actually had it twice and then blew up. But he kept him honest, that's for sure.

• 52:41Speaker 01

  But like that, that's something that like, I think is, you know, it's honorable to go out and actually just do your thing and not have to, um, you're not worried about anybody else's race other than your own, you know?

• 52:55Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 52:55Speaker 01

  Um, I think it actually messes up a lot of other people's races if you don't play into their hands. So.

• 53:00Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 53:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it's a whole different strategy. And yeah, to be that guy who comes back twice and says, no, you guys actually have to like, you have to kick butt to get around me.

• 53:12Cameron Hanes?

  You're gonna keep it honest.

• 53:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:13Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. It's, is there like? Again, I've never run track, but is there like surges and stuff during sometimes?

• 53:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, sometimes. Sometimes people like to make surges and they like to, there's definitely like especially, it's more prevalent on the road, I would say. Like there's times where like the group will just kind of like shift forward and that's when the people in the back of that group are kind of like, oh no, the wheels are kind of falling off. And they're starting to feel it a little bit more. And that's when you start seeing guys just kind of trickle off the back. And so that's why that first, those two miles I was talking about are so prevalent because it's already, everybody's kind of measuring up and they're trying to make sure that like, nobody is in that race that doesn't deserve to be there.

• 53:58Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 53:59Speaker 01

  So like they'll come back and they'll run a weird split on that next mile or so, but like it's, it's that yo-yo of like, we're not letting anybody, it's,

• 54:10Cameron Hanes?

  Any, it's a fraud check, basically.

• 54:12Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 54:12Cameron Hanes?

  It's like, do you belong here or not? We're going to figure this out right now.

• 54:15Speaker 01

  Exactly. You can't fake it until you make it.

• 54:17Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah. No, we're not, we're not helping because if you went more conservative, then people who don't deserve to be there could hang on.

• 54:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:24Cameron Hanes?

  Right?

• 54:24Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 54:25Cameron Hanes?

  So yeah, you figure that out right out of the gate and like, okay, here's what we're dealing with today.

• 54:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:29Cameron Hanes?

  Right? Yeah. And then also you told me and Eugene that you were with the half marathoners.

• 54:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:37Cameron Hanes?

  That, like I said, they're at home and you're still running. So they're trying to make you like, like pull that group, right? At one time or is your turn?

• 54:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. So it was a weird situation because I was kind of, so they had like this little thing going on where they're making an arrow. And I kind of felt like Kipchoge a little bit because I was just hanging on in the back.

• 54:55Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 54:56Speaker 01

  And then there was at one point, the half marathon guy who won it. He was like doing a motion to me with his arm to say like, kind of like in cycling, how you flick the elbow.

• 55:07Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 55:08Speaker 01

  They're like, he was like, dude, you gotta lead. Like, what are you doing? And he was kind of like getting frustrated a little bit. And I was trying to explain to him. I was like, dude, I am the marathon, like I'm in the marathon. I'm not in the half marathon, the marathon. Meanwhile, running, like I'm trying to explain that.

• 55:23Cameron Hanes?

  And you're with the half marathoners.

• 55:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:26Cameron Hanes?

  Fast.

• 55:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. And he's like, oh, okay. You can, you can hang on a little bit. I was like, ah, thank you, man.

• 55:31Cameron Hanes?

  What, what did he win it in? Do you know?

• 55:33Speaker 01

  I think it was like a sixty five or so.

• 55:35Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, it's pretty good.

• 55:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's pretty good.

• 55:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah, that's good. But yeah, that was your, that was your two ten pace right there.

• 55:42Speaker 01

  It was my two, it was perfect. Like I got the, it felt like I had pacers for a little bit there.

• 55:47Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Oh, that's, man, dude, that is so fast. But we did have a perfect day, basically that day.

• 55:56Cameron Hanes?

  Did it get warm later?

• 55:57Speaker 01

  It got a little, yeah, it definitely got warm.

• 55:59Cameron Hanes?

  Later towards the end?

• 56:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, because I remember like on the podium, I was wearing like a long sleeve shirt and I was burning up.

• 56:05Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, yeah. You were done quite a bit before me, even though I won, according to some articles.

• 56:14Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So what's next?

• 56:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:16Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, wait, I was gonna say also, Austin, I don't think would have been as fast. It's pretty hilly.

• 56:21Speaker 01

  Oh, that's for sure.

• 56:22Cameron Hanes?

  So I'm glad you ran Eugene instead of Austin.

• 56:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:25Cameron Hanes?

  I don't know if you'd, maybe, maybe on a good day, but it would have been tougher, probably.

• 56:29Speaker 01

  It one hundred percent would have been tougher.

• 56:31Cameron Hanes?

  And it was, I think it was windy that day there because Truor ran it. He didn't do good.

• 56:35Speaker 01

  It was, yeah, and they weren't even like I, though, two weeks before I was asking, hey, like, what are we doing for bottles? Like, how does this work? And they're like, oh, well, we just kind of outsourced to, I think it's BPN or whoever sponsors their supplements. And they were kind of just like, yeah, we don't really do that. I was like, oh, that's not good because like I, I'm with my own company that like they help me out with nutrition. So like, I need to have that stuff with me. So yeah, having Eugene right there and just saying, yeah, you can bring whatever. Just as long as you run fast. I was like, okay.

• 57:10Cameron Hanes?

  What, can, can you say what's in your bottles? I mean,

• 57:13Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 57:13Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. What, what do you, what's your plan?

• 57:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I use precision and I use the sodium mix for carbs. So like I, what I did was I took one gel before and then I took just basically it's two scoops, which is about sixty grams of carbs for one bottle. And then I would tape another gel to. So by the time I'm about like five miles in, I'll take, well, that thirty plus another thirty plus sixty. I mean, yeah, you can do the math from there, one hundred and twenty carbs for an hour.

• 57:49Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 57:49Speaker 01

  And yeah, so, and I think that's where I went wrong.

• 57:52Cameron Hanes?

  What, too much, you think?

• 57:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think I just took way too much and my body was not ready for that.

• 57:57Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 57:59Speaker 01

  I thought that day would be the day to try it, which wasn't a good idea.

• 58:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that's usually, yeah, it's usually how it works is like, hey, this would be a good time to experiment.

• 58:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:10Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I'm just always curious about fueling strategies, you know, because that's, it's such a new, I don't know, development or, or we're learning so much about how powerful that, but I think David Roach kinda, he really shined the spotlight on this about how many carbs per hour. And now Precision did an amazing job with Rachel at Coca Dona. They were, I mean, it was amazing. I watched a whole, like an eight minute video on their strategy for fueling her, you know, because they have scientists and all sorts of shit following her. And it's like, God, this is incredible, but it makes such a big difference on performance.

• 58:50Cameron Hanes?

  You know, when I first started running marathons, like I ran Eugene at South Eugene High, I like might get a half a banana and then that's it for the marathon. So that's what it used to be like. And then maybe you'd have a goo, which they were terrible, hard to get down. It's like trying to get caulking down your throat.

• 59:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:11Cameron Hanes?

  Window caulking and now, but this stuff now, like the Morton's gel or Precision, I haven't tried too much Precision, but that stuff goes down so easy.

• 59:20Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. And what I love about Precision is that there's a little bit of taste to it. Like, obviously I'm biased, but there's like Morton is kind of bland a little bit.

• 59:29Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 59:30Speaker 01

  Whereas like Precision, it's like, it's not even like a goo, it's more like a liquid. So it doesn't feel like you're actually having to like choke anything down.

• 59:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 59:39Speaker 01

  Which is nice.

• 59:40Cameron Hanes?

  So do you get like half and half from your, your fluid and then half from the gel?

• 59:46Speaker 01

  Uh, so I would take half of a bottle and then I would take like that gel along with it.

• 59:53Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 59:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, gotcha. So, and how often are you doing that?

• 59:57Speaker 01

  Uh, so in the race I was doing it, like it was at mile five point one and then like I think half marathon or so and then like, so it was about two times every hour.

• 1:00:08Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:00:09Speaker 01

  And there was like five stops. So I think the last one was like at 20 or something.

• 1:00:12Cameron Hanes?

  Gotcha. Okay. Yeah.

• 1:00:14Speaker 01

  Well, I'm not, I'm, I was a math major, but yeah, for whatever reason I'm blanking on the math. So.

• 1:00:21Cameron Hanes?

  It's all good. Yeah. But you, you have a schedule and you have a plan. And then I guess, so was your stomach not ready for that plan? Or have, because I, I think what you'd wanna do is do that exact same thing in training, right? Just get your stomach ready.

• 1:00:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And you just hadn't done that yet, or?

• 1:00:39Speaker 01

  So I did it. I did GI training. I just, I thought like I was ready for that next bump and, cause like my stomach was starting to feel great during workouts. And I was like, yeah, this is not a problem at all. Like I should be able to push the limit a little bit.

• 1:00:53Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:53Speaker 01

  And then I, I didn't realize how long the marathon was and I haven't done training nearly to that extent. So, yeah.

• 1:01:01Cameron Hanes?

  There are, it's about 26 miles.

• 1:01:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, just about.

• 1:01:06Speaker 01

  Well, and it's, it's the pace too, you know, like it, it's so different. Like in training, you're trying to push thresholds. So you're like, you're trying to chill out a little bit. And your stomach's a little bit different.

• 1:01:16Cameron Hanes?

  18 miles is different than 26.

• 1:01:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:19Cameron Hanes?

  You know, so if you do that 18 mile long run at marathon pace, that's great. We still have eight more miles.

• 1:01:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:26Cameron Hanes?

  You know, what's your body doing there? So, yeah, I understand. It's like with your first marathon, you probably, that's why I say it's like your ceiling, who knows what it is? Because you're still sort of figuring it out and still ran, you know, on pace for two 10 for a while.

• 1:01:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:41Cameron Hanes?

  Crazy.

• 1:01:44Cameron Hanes?

  What about your shoes? Like carbon plated shoes or what?

• 1:01:47Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. This, the Nike Alpha Flies.

• 1:01:50Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:01:50Speaker 01

  I get to play around a little bit. I also work at a specialty running shop. So, um, yeah, they kind of let me try out things and I always give them feedback. And yeah, so I always like to train in the A6 Metta Speed Edge. And when it comes to race day, I like to have just that fresh pair just because mentally there's like

• 1:02:11Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:12Speaker 01

  Something behind a fresh pair of shoes that, you know.

• 1:02:14Cameron Hanes?

  A little more pop?

• 1:02:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, a little bit more pop. And so, yeah, that Alpha Fly man, it just, it was amazing. Compared to all the carbon plated shoes I've tried out there, it's just like on par with just like, it just carried me through those last 10 miles. Honestly, like, I don't know how I would have done. I was thinking about it during the race, actually. I was like, how in the past did people just run in flats? Like, this is

• 1:02:37Cameron Hanes?

  I don't know.

• 1:02:38Speaker 01

  I don't get it.

• 1:02:38Cameron Hanes?

  It's got, it's the biggest advantage is like that having the carbon plates. I don't know. I did this like shoe test, like with Zach Bitter and his friend Dustin there in Austin. And I just tried different shoes on the, and we're measuring, um, God, I don't know, just effort.

• 1:02:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:59Cameron Hanes?

  And, um, like how much to, like in a trail shoe compared to these different carbon plated shoes? And it makes, like from a regular shoe to a carbon plated, I think it was like minutes different in the marathon. It was like, I think the widest range was like seven minutes.

• 1:03:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, which, and if you're speaking top end, that's, that's huge.

• 1:03:20Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, even, even 30 seconds can be huge.

• 1:03:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:24Cameron Hanes?

  But it's, uh, I've been running, I think they're, are they Puma? Yeah, those Puma, have you tried those?

• 1:03:31Speaker 01

  I haven't yet. The Nitros?

• 1:03:33Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:34Cameron Hanes?

  Those things feels the same way. It's like you just feel light and fast and springy kinda. It's, uh, yeah, I mean, I tried to, I tried to train like today, I always run in just regular shoes and then try to race in like the carbon stuff.

• 1:03:50Speaker 01

  Which is, yeah, that, that's probably what you should do.

• 1:03:53Cameron Hanes?

  Cause I think Truitt, he got hurt training too much in the car. It was like springing him forward and his quads got strained.

• 1:04:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:01Cameron Hanes?

  And his just body wasn't used to it.

• 1:04:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. So at the shop, that's, that's actually a big problem that we try to address is like people will come in wanting like Alpha Fly or something. It's like, you, you kind of have to scale them back. And it's like, all right, well, what are you using these shoes for? And they're like, well, I'm using these to just kind of walk the dog around. And it's like, well, that's going to put your foot in a really bad position and it's a really narrow toe box. So you probably want to have something like a Saucony ride or something like that. Or like an Ultra. Ultra is huge because it's just that zero drop. So, yeah.

• 1:04:34Cameron Hanes?

  Does that like stretch out calves and Achilles though?

• 1:04:37Speaker 01

  It does. Yeah. So for running, it's kind of an interesting scenario. Like you kind of have to build up that tolerance to it, but it's supposed to be really good for your joints.

• 1:04:47Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:04:47Speaker 01

  Um, that's a whole thought process between the wide toe box too. It's just like, everything is on that planter. So like that arch of your foot. And so, um, if you can spread that out, that's going to relieve like a lot of pain later on, like that you feel after running.

• 1:05:03Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, I see. Okay. I hadn't heard that explained before. That's interesting.

• 1:05:07Speaker 01

  At least that's what I've been taught. I'm not a foot doctor or anything like that.

• 1:05:12Cameron Hanes?

  What, what about the stack height? Like, yeah, cause what is the limit 40 millimeter, but don't they have like super high ones now?

• 1:05:20Speaker 01

  Oh yeah. Like I wear the Vamero Premium and that's, I think it's way above it, but like, um, I, yeah, that stack height, it's a weird scenario because they're banning over 40 mil, 40, yeah, 40 millimeters. And it's like, it, it doesn't to me make a difference. Like I wouldn't want to wear that on my foot during a race anyways. You know, like that's, uh, it's too much shoe.

• 1:05:43Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:44Speaker 01

  I think really where the shoe world is now is like, they have like all these thick soles. I think it's trying to innovate something that is thinner sole, but has the same exact, um, like benefits as a thick shoulder shoe.

• 1:05:59Cameron Hanes?

  Same property. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, I was just thinking about, I, I ran in these once. And these are good. Uh, I don't know what the stack height is, but this is pretty narrow.

• 1:06:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:11Cameron Hanes?

  So I noticed towards the end of the run, you know, your feet swell a little bit.

• 1:06:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:16Cameron Hanes?

  This was a little tight for me. And yeah.

• 1:06:20Speaker 01

  You should probably get fitted, man. Maybe it's like, so at the shop, we always say like, uh, we do point five above of like what your foot actually measures at. And so that's like, um, it kind of prevents that from like the swelling that you feel in your foot. It's going to prevent any kind of pain that you feel.

• 1:06:39Cameron Hanes?

  Gotcha. Okay.

• 1:06:40Speaker 01

  It, it might be the shoe, but it might also just be the size.

• 1:06:43Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, maybe. I mean, cause yeah, I, I wear 10 and everything. Maybe in these I need 10 and a half. I don't know. But they're light and springy.

• 1:06:50Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, that's for sure. No, those things are, those are the Yevos SLs, right?

• 1:06:55Cameron Hanes?

  I think, I don't know, are they?

• 1:06:57Speaker 01

  I don't know, I believe so. Or the, oh, those are the Audios Pros, aren't they?

• 1:07:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah. We don't carry Adidas, so this is like my first time seeing those in person.

• 1:07:09Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, they're, and they're cool. I mean, my dad used to work at, my dad was a track guy and he worked at a running store. It was called, God, Oregon Athletic back in the day. And I was always, I've been addicted to shoes forever. So I got every shoe in the world just from being a kid.

• 1:07:26Speaker 01

  And that's the fun thing about running too, is you get to burn through them. So you get to try on different shoes.

• 1:07:30Cameron Hanes?

  And cool running shoes, dude.

• 1:07:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:32Cameron Hanes?

  It's like, that is just fun just to put on fresh shoes.

• 1:07:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:36Cameron Hanes?

  And just kick around in.

• 1:07:38Speaker 01

  And that, that's the thing too, is like our shop, like we, it's an older store. And so like, there's, we had this certain amount of like shelves because back in the day, it was like, you just had running shoes. And now you're adding on and you're having super trainers, you're having like the super shoes and like, we literally don't have enough space in the back. So it's become an interesting scenario. But to that point, it's like, it's fun to just try all these different things that are coming out. And it's coming out so fast now. Like by the time one shoe comes out and they make the next one.

• 1:08:10Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's competitive out there.

• 1:08:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:12Cameron Hanes?

  Um, so I think I interrupted you, but what is, what's the next, uh, what's your, what's coming up?

• 1:08:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:08:18Cameron Hanes?

  What's the goal?

• 1:08:19Speaker 01

  So coming up is actually the Broken Arrow 23K. It's the Mountain Sky Race.

• 1:08:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:25Speaker 01

  Out in Palisades Tahoe. Oh, man. I'm super excited just because it's like, uh, it's something different. I've never really, I ran one trail race in my entire life. And it was kind of like this local rinky dink race. So I'm excited to see how I stack up to the big dogs.

• 1:08:40Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, that'd be fun. Is there some, so do you know who's running?

• 1:08:44Speaker 01

  Uh, so off the top of my head, I know a few guys.

• 1:08:47Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:47Speaker 01

  Uh, there's like one guy from Provo, uh, Christian Allen, I believe his name is.

• 1:08:53Cameron Hanes?

  Slim the Runner?

• 1:08:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:55Cameron Hanes?

  The big hair?

• 1:08:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, big hair. That, so I'm pretty sure he's showing up. I mean,

• 1:08:59Cameron Hanes?

  He's good.

• 1:09:00Speaker 01

  He's ACG too, so it would make sense. But, um, yeah, there's a, uh, my friend Ben Townsend, he's just like a dog in the sky running world. And, um, he's, yeah, he'll be there. So my whole idea that I have going out there is like, I kind of just want to beat them, just to say it, but like, it's, you know, it's a goal. It doesn't mean it's.

• 1:09:21Cameron Hanes?

  We won't tell them.

• 1:09:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:23Cameron Hanes?

  We won't tell them. He'll be caught off guard when you blow by him.

• 1:09:28Speaker 01

  We'll see.

• 1:09:29Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Oh, that sounds fun. And then what about after that?

• 1:09:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, after that, it's all up in the air. It's just a matter of where the wind blows me and what race wants to take me on. And the running world is beyond political. So I'm just gonna see where I can work myself into.

• 1:09:51Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, no, I understand that. But you feel like, so are you gonna be pretty strategic on the next marathon you pick? And then like, so you know, you say it's political and you don't know where it's gonna go yet, but like, do you plan on having like a a full, proper block before you go into the next one and really put on a show?

• 1:10:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:12Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:10:12Speaker 01

  That's without a doubt.

• 1:10:14Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:14Speaker 01

  At this point, like, seeing what I did just previously, I think I owe it to myself to just like have a true block and do all the small things right. And then in the fall, hopefully pick out like a just a race with a bunch of guys in there that can

• 1:10:30Cameron Hanes?

  Like Chicago?

• 1:10:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:31Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, it'd be a fast one.

• 1:10:32Speaker 01

  I've had a lot of people reach out and tell me that I should run that, so.

• 1:10:36Cameron Hanes?

  Cause I mean, that would have people you could, I don't, I don't know how fast you'll be there, but there's some very fast people there.

• 1:10:44Speaker 01

  Oh, without a doubt.

• 1:10:44Cameron Hanes?

  So you'd have plenty of people to run with and it's flat and the weather's good.

• 1:10:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:49Cameron Hanes?

  So if you had time, like, how, how long is a proper block in your mind?

• 1:10:54Speaker 01

  In my mind, I'd probably say like about 16 weeks or so. Just so I have like that proper bill. I really wanna build up mileage and hopefully hit over 100 miles and like I owe it to myself to at least do 110, cause that's seems to be the magical number that people start feeling their best. So yeah, just building up a tolerance to that 110 and hopefully carrying that on throughout and then being able to actually have a proper taper might do me justice as well.

• 1:11:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, 16 weeks. That, I mean, I don't know anything about it, but that seems like a long time to like definitely hit everything you need with the Miles than the speed work like how much of that one ten would be on the track, do you think?

• 1:11:40Speaker 01

  Oh, I I do a lot of stuff on the treadmill. So

• 1:11:43Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:11:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, it'd probably be an unhealthy amount of treadmill running, but um I I seldom go on to the track at this point. Just because like I I think I kind of got burnt out on it in college. And so now I just like, especially living out in Colorado, man, there's so many places you can go. And uh there's like this trail, it's called the Santa Fe. You just hop on that and you can do some crusher workouts. So yeah, it keeps the mind floating around and you don't have to stay on just like going in circles like a hamster.

• 1:12:15Cameron Hanes?

  I did it. Um, is the treadmill just for that leg turnover? Cause you can really ratchet it up and get that speed?

• 1:12:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, um, it's so Jacob Ingrubritsin kind of indoctrinated this. It was like uh this idea that everything is controlled. And so like I'll do workouts, like I just did a workout, it was yesterday. And I did one in the morning and one in the afternoon. And it's just literally on the treadmill and it's so that way I don't go too fast because I do have it. As we've talked about, I have a pacing problem. So um I try not to get competitive with myself and I force myself just into that pace and find my rhythm. And then um in the afternoon, it's the same exact thing. And it's also so I don't overdo it. So that like next two days of recovery, I'm not like just absolutely shattered.

• 1:13:06Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:08Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, there's strategy to it, huh? Does your, does your coach help you with this?

• 1:13:12Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, we're always just like bouncing around ideas and it it's really cool because she took me on after coaching me in college. So we're just always like, especially with um trail running in the mix now, like we're just kind of like clueless. But it's kind of fun because we're both learning from it and figuring out what works and what doesn't. Like last week I was just, I told her, I was like, I can't do a workout. I just need to get as much vert into my running as possible. Um, vertical, vertical elevation gain. So like um, like one day I I did do a workout, but it was It's more about the elevation gain than anything. It was like three thousand, uh, three thousand feet and six miles or something like that.

• 1:13:52Cameron Hanes?

  That's a good one.

• 1:13:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:53Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And were you pushing that hard?

• 1:13:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, we were, we were pushing a good pace. It was, we were trying to do a threshold effort. So it was like ten by three minutes on and then like sixty seconds off and.

• 1:14:05Cameron Hanes?

  Are you looking at heart rate or what do you, what are you gauging effort by?

• 1:14:08Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, that's a good question. It's basically just like, um, how we feel. So not going over to a point where we feel like we can't do another rep, but like actually the opposite where when you finish ten, you feel like you could have done another ten or so.

• 1:14:23Cameron Hanes?

  I see. Okay.

• 1:14:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:25Cameron Hanes?

  I don't know anything about it, but I want to learn.

• 1:14:29Speaker 01

  It's always fun to learn.

• 1:14:30Cameron Hanes?

  Want to get better. Yeah. Well, no. So you wanted all that climbing for the, getting ready for this, um, sky race, right?

• 1:14:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, four thousand feet, man.

• 1:14:39Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I, uh, I've run with, do you know who Anna Gibson is?

• 1:14:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've heard of the name.

• 1:14:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, she, I think she does those. And then she did the, I think it was, what is that? Bob sled she did? Oh, no, no. Cross country skiing.

• 1:14:54Speaker 01

  Oh, man. Oh, that's brutal.

• 1:14:55Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:56Cameron Hanes?

  She did the cross, or what's it called? Nordic, yeah.

• 1:15:00Speaker 01

  Nordic.

• 1:15:00Cameron Hanes?

  And so she had never, well, I think she's skied because she grew up in Wyoming, but just kind of like last minute jumped in and made the Olympics.

• 1:15:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, yeah, that's right.

• 1:15:09Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:15:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's how I know her name. Yeah.

• 1:15:12Cameron Hanes?

  What I, what I loved about her is like, so when the Olympic trials were here, she qualified in the fifteen hundred. But she did the sky race the weekend before and got, I think she got second. And then came in, everybody's saying, well, no, you're going to screw up your trials, this, that. She's like, I don't care. It's what I want to do. So she ran that, got second, came around the trials, think she made the semis, but it's just what she wants to do. She wants to do it all.

• 1:15:40Speaker 01

  But that's the beauty of it.

• 1:15:41Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:41Speaker 01

  It's about having fun. It's not about, like, if you're listening to what other people tell you to do.

• 1:15:47Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:15:47Speaker 01

  You're not doing it for yourself.

• 1:15:49Cameron Hanes?

  No. And so that was the ultimate sign of like, no, I just want to run and do it all. And then. We went to this Brooks party over here and then I said, hey, you want to go run in the morning? So then we went and ran, did two summits on Piska. And I was like, I figured out, yeah, she is really good at running mountains. I was like dying. But, uh, that's pretty much the case with everybody I run with these days. But yeah, so she's super cool, but I just love that she was just going to send in the mounds and run the trials and whatever. I just love that attitude.

• 1:16:20Speaker 01

  That's the way to do it.

• 1:16:23Cameron Hanes?

  James? Do you have any thoughts?

• 1:16:26Speaker 02

  Peanut gallery?

• 1:16:27Cameron Hanes?

  Peanut gallery questions?

• 1:16:31Speaker 02

  Is this thing on?

• 1:16:32Cameron Hanes?

  No, probably not.

• 1:16:35Cameron Hanes?

  We don't, we never have that on because we actually don't care what you have to say.

• 1:16:39Speaker 02

  How about now? Can you hear me?

• 1:16:40Cameron Hanes?

  No. Yes.

• 1:16:45Speaker 02

  Earlier you talked about, um, you know, being close to qualifying for regionals and the nationals and never quite making it. What do you think kept you going? Or what was your, your mindset to keep the belief that you could do it and one day you would qualify?

• 1:17:04Speaker 01

  I think it was just, uh, I think it was two things. It was disappointment. So that feeling of just not living up to my own expectations. And then exactly that, having my own expectations of what I'm capable of. And I just always have this desire to just get the truest amount out of me. So like, I think, you know, not getting to where I wanted to be was just a sign of like, dude, like this is just not okay. Like I need to show, I, I don't even need to show it to myself. Like I know what I'm capable of. I need to show other people what I'm capable of and I, I don't care what opportunity it takes. Like I'll get there. I know I have to do it. It's just a matter of, um, yeah, I just got to keep on trying.

• 1:17:50Cameron Hanes?

  Was there, was there people telling you, you couldn't do it?

• 1:17:53Speaker 01

  Ah, yeah, there is quite a few. I think a lot of people, uh, I, I, I think from my school, there was a lot of people who did believe in me and I think they felt a lot of the same disappointments that I had, but um, yeah.

• 1:18:07Cameron Hanes?

  They saw your potential probably and knew what you had.

• 1:18:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, but then also there's a competitive side of things where like, you know, people kinda, there's envy and jealousy and people kinda say, oh, well, like if I can't do that, then you can't do that type of thing. And so, um, it, it definitely fueled the fire a little bit.

• 1:18:26Cameron Hanes?

  I think that, I mean, Truett, he's not close to you, but he has the same goal to qualify. And there's a lot of even pros just telling him he doesn't have what it takes. And you know, it's like,

• 1:18:38Cameron Hanes?

  yeah, I mean, it does put a chip on your shoulder.

• 1:18:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:40Cameron Hanes?

  And you just want to prove people wrong because like, I guess life isn't where not everybody's, not everybody's your mom and dad. They're not going to tell you, you can do whatever you want, champ.

• 1:18:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:51Cameron Hanes?

  So that's life. But yeah, when you work so hard at something, you got somebody telling you, you're wasting your time.

• 1:18:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:58Cameron Hanes?

  That's not that fun.

• 1:18:59Speaker 01

  I mean, I even had a coach tell me that was like, I wasn't good at the longer stuff. And so I didn't get picked for a regional cross-country race. And I, that was kinda like what lit the fire initially and just kinda kept on driving it. Cause I was like, whoa, you're not going to tell me no. Like this is like, I am one of the best guys in the team and I'm going to prove it to you.

• 1:19:20Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:20Speaker 01

  And from there, yeah, it all worked out.

• 1:19:23Cameron Hanes?

  I know. Sometimes, sometimes that's what some doubt, maybe sometimes that's what it takes to push us. You know, I mean, sometimes, sometimes it's love and support. Sometimes maybe something else.

• 1:19:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I'm thankful for that opportunity to, you know, she did straighten me out. So.

• 1:19:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:41Cameron Hanes?

  Wow. I love it. What else you got?

• 1:19:44Speaker 02

  Um, now that you've qualified for the Olympic trials, um, does that change your mentality at all? Like, are you gonna be more selective about where you show up to races? Or, yeah, how's that affected that?

• 1:19:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm gonna be more selective in the fact that I'm picking races where there's actually good competition. Not that Eugene didn't have competition, there were some guys who just didn't have the days that they were supposed to. But, um, I think, you know, to be into that next bracket, you know, running, at least trying to attempt that sub two ten, I just have to be in the race that will let me do that. So definitely getting into like maybe even something like Berlin, Amsterdam, or even a major, so.

• 1:20:26Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:28Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I can't wait to see it. Dude, I'm, I'm a fan. What else you got?

• 1:20:35Speaker 02

  Just as far as like desire to be a sponsored athlete and be somebody who does get paid to just run and that's it. What does that kind of map look like for you to, to achieve that?

• 1:20:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, uh, so I, I understand that I have to run faster. That's part of it. You, if I'm not, you know, something that people are gonna see, then I totally get it. But I think the fact that my mouth is, or I'm, my name is in other people's mouths right now, is kinda the beginning of what you're gonna see a lot later on is, you know, yeah, Eugene was good, but I think after we run a few more races, you're gonna start seeing that like I'm not gonna just stop here.

• 1:21:18Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm, yeah, you seem hungry.

• 1:21:20Speaker 01

  I am.

• 1:21:21Cameron Hanes?

  Hungry, healthy, and yeah, that's, and you got talent.

• 1:21:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, thank you.

• 1:21:27Speaker 02

  All right, last one. Obviously, you talked about Broken Arrow and trail running. Any future plans for any longer trail runs?

• 1:21:35Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, that's a good quote. Yeah. So maybe not right now, like doing marathon and everything. I think I just need to really focus on that. And, you know, every once in a while, it's okay to do like a trail race and see what I may have. But, um, yeah, definitely once I'm like thirty-five and above, like I'm open to try whatever. And I think, yeah, I mean, Leadville's right there. It's not too far away, so it'd be a shame not to try it at all.

• 1:22:04Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah. I'm, I'm curious, um, What if you have like, I don't know, if you envision yourself, do you see yourself running in the Olympics?

• 1:22:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:18Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:19Speaker 01

  To be honest.

• 1:22:19Cameron Hanes?

  And what is that? What do you see when you like envision? Do you see a race? Do you see you wearing the jersey, running with the other best in the world? What do you see?

• 1:22:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just see me in the pack of the guys that I just feel like I always belonged with. And I, it, it's always been this thing of like, I see people racing on Instagram. I see people racing on YouTube. Like, there's all these videos going out with how people are, like, these teams, these sponsored athletes. And then it's weird because then like I end up in scenarios like I'm running at USA 10K champs or USA half champs. And I'm actually racing these guys and beating them. And it's like, oh, man, like now in my head, like I have this vision of, you know, running at that next level.

• 1:23:09Speaker 01

  And yeah, again, maybe I'm just delirious, but hopefully it works out for the best.

• 1:23:17Cameron Hanes?

  Hey, it all, it all starts with that delusional self-belief.

• 1:23:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:21Cameron Hanes?

  You know, because nobody else is going to tell you, hey, I got this big dream and here's I think what you, what I think you can do. It's you.

• 1:23:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:28Cameron Hanes?

  It's if it's in you, then you figure out, okay, do I have what it takes? And it seems like you have what it takes. So then it's just a matter of let's do it.

• 1:23:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I have no shame in believing in myself, you know, if it doesn't work out, then that it's, you know, it wasn't meant to be, but I'm going to give everything I can to make it happen. So.

• 1:23:47Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Well, I mean, I'm saying your name, Jack Sedell. I'm like so pumped you're here. And here's what I'll say. My highlight today was you saying, you're a good runner or something like that when we were coming back. So it's like, I got what I needed out of today. So thank you. I appreciate you.

• 1:24:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, thank you.

• 1:24:08Cameron Hanes?

  And you got a new bow, so we'll send that to you. And then, uh, yeah, just, just an awesome day. I, I'm so appreciative. Thank you for coming out here to my home. Thank you for sharing the day with me. It means a lot. And man, I believe in you. I want, you know, you know, all the success you dream of. I want to see you have that too. So thank you very much.

• 1:24:30Speaker 01

  Thank you. I'm grateful.

• 1:24:31Cameron Hanes?

  All right. Keep hammering, guys.

• 1:24:32Speaker 01

  Keep hammering.

• 1:24:34Speaker 03

  Every step I take, I move my truth. Every time they tell me stop, I use. Every comment hate that makes my feel, Gather up my energy and boom. I hear them talking, saying the way that I move is so reckless. That is a part of my mind I've been blessed with. Giving my blood so I am relentless.