KHC 145 - Tanner Hanes

Join us for one of the most requested guests and Cam’s oldest son - Tanner Hanes. Cam and Tanner talk about Tanner’s recent elk hunt where he harvested one of the biggest bulls of his lifetime on public land, difficulties of hunting the wilderness, and more! Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Timestamps: 00:00:00 Tanner’s Hunting Career: The Army, Work, & Experience from a Friend 00:06:11 Packing Meat out of the Wilderness: Solo vs Group Hunts 00:13:17 Garret Downing: Handling the Mules for the Hunt 00:15:51 Tanner’s 7x7 Public Land Bull: The Hunt 00:25:55 Difficult Shots No One Wants to Talk About 00:38:48 Journaling During Hunting & Overcoming Failure 00:44:18 Day 3: Feelings of Jealousy and Defeat 00:49:13 Days 5-7: Hunting Alone, Keep Moving, and Weather in the Mountains 00:54:25 The Last Day: The Bull of Tanner’s Lifetime 01:09:18 Hard Work and Luck 01:15:18 Hunting with Cam at 7 Years Old in the Mountains 01:16:47 Support with Hauling the Elk Meat Out & Tanner’s Wife’s Support 01:22:33 Cam’s Wilderness Bull: A Team to Carry Out the Meat 01:31:35 Documenting the Memories 01:37:41 Finding Your Purpose After the Army 01:40:48 Luck is Not Something You Hope for in Hunting, it is Something You Earn 01:42:11 What Prepared Tanner the Most for the Hunt 01:43:25 QA: F#$k, Marry, Kill: Chicken Alfredo, Biscuits & Gravy, & Chicken Pesto 01:44:37 Generational Legacies in Hunting 01:49:36 Outro Thank you to our sponsors: Hoyt:⁠ http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv⁠ use code CAM for 10% off Grizzly Coolers: https://www.grizzlycoolers.com/ use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off Montana Knife Company: https://www.montanaknifecompany.com/ Use code CAM for 10% off LMNT: Visit https://drinklmnt.com/cam for a free sample pack with any purchase MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off and Free Shipping Black Rifle Coffee: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% your first order

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:16Cameron Hanes?

  This is a Keep Hammering Collective with round of applause. The studio audience goes wild. Tanner Hanes, you are probably, I'm gonna, you are the number one requested guest. Did you know that?

• 0:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know why.

• 0:34Cameron Hanes?

  People want to hear that you've been like in the shadows. You're like the man of mystery. Scrubbed your social. People are like.

• 0:43Speaker 01

  Done it a few times.

• 0:44Cameron Hanes?

  Who is this guy? So this is one of James's questions that I hate when he does. Who is Tanner Hanes?

• 0:55Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, I'm not a big, not a big talker.

• 1:00Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:01Speaker 01

  Or a people person in general.

• 1:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, me neither.

• 1:04Speaker 01

  Have a pretty small, pretty small circle and I don't know, I just like to stay to myself. And I'm not confused about this. So if anybody wants to say anything about it, I'm here on this podcast because you are my dad.

• 1:21Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, you didn't, you weren't like.

• 1:22Speaker 01

  I'm not retarded. No shit, that's why I'm here.

• 1:26Cameron Hanes?

  You, uh, well, yeah, and you, you've never asked, hey, could I be on the podcast? It's like, it's like the complete opposite. I've tried to get you on here a thousand times. You're like, no, no, no. So then this morning I told Taryn, I said, guess what? Tanner's going on the podcast. You know what that means? She's the only one after this, but, uh, no.

• 1:51Speaker 01

  I don't think she's going to be on.

• 1:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's, uh.

• 1:54Speaker 01

  Well, we could tell him about the wager of why I'm here.

• 1:57Cameron Hanes?

  Now, what was it? Tell me.

• 2:00Speaker 01

  Well, you've tried to get me on a hundred times.

• 2:02Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:03Speaker 01

  I've always said no. And I said, if I killed a big bull.

• 2:08Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 2:09Speaker 01

  This year, I would do it. I didn't think it was actually gonna happen. So I didn't think I had to worry about it.

• 2:15Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, you kind of screwed yourself, didn't you?

• 2:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, so unfortunately.

• 2:21Cameron Hanes?

  Well, okay, so let's, let's catch everybody up to speed. That was the wager. That was the deal. You said, because you said you hadn't done anything. You have nothing to talk about, you know, kind of downplaying everything you've done. And then I was like, okay, whatever, blah, blah, blah. And then you said, but if I kill a big bull, okay, then, then we can, and it happened. So how, I mean, yeah, walk me through that. Just, uh, how did, how did that come to be? Because you've done a lot of hunting. You've been in the wilderness over your life. You've killed, you killed rifle rifle killed a bull in the Colorado wilderness a couple of years ago, right? So how did it? Tell me that, that journey about where you, you got, found yourself in the wilderness bow in hand this year.

• 3:07Speaker 01

  Well, I mean,

• 3:10Speaker 01

  yeah, I mean, I've been exposed to it for a long time. I've kind of grew up around it and was forced to go to it and all that stuff, but honestly, my hunting career has been like halted pretty much my entire twenties. So like, when you do the most growing in hunting, like I wasn't able to just because of my job. So I never had hunting seasons off. I didn't really care to hunt. Um, I was just kind of focused on what I was doing, but now I'm out of the army.

• 3:47Speaker 01

  So first year I was out, I filmed you. So that's a wrap on that hunting season. Couldn't do it. Then I got a new job last year and I didn't feel comfortable taking time off. I'm not a big time off guy at work. I don't know. But I mean, I'm becoming a more, more of a fan of it.

• 4:08Cameron Hanes?

  To hunt.

• 4:09Speaker 01

  To be honest.

• 4:10Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 4:11Speaker 01

  And then this year. So I pretty much this whole story is gonna revolve around. Well, our hunt, but my buddy Cord. I mean, it's, I literally couldn't have done any of this stuff if it wasn't for him. Known him my entire life, pretty much. I don't know how old we were, nine or 10, playing basketball. But Cord's one of those guys, he's just a, he's just a stud and he's good at everything and he's a good leader and he's good at planning stuff and he's been going to this wilderness, kind of because of you.

• 4:51Speaker 01

  And he's become good at it and he has animals, which is a whole nother thing and anyways, I see him every day at work, we work together and he kind of opened this door and invited me to go with them. So it's something that I've wanted to do. I've been reading, you know, I read your stuff, I watch your old videos, I read Silver Tip, I have the Fred Bear books. I mean, I love that stuff, I really do, but it's hard to,

• 5:22Speaker 01

  it's hard to like make it happen on your own sometimes. There's a lot of logistics and he really helped, really helped it.

• 5:31Cameron Hanes?

  Open that door.

• 5:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, like come together.

• 5:33Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's a, there's a barrier of entry to hunt the wild, to hunt any big country really, but wilderness specifically, which if people don't know, a designated wilderness, there's no wheels allowed, you can't take four wheelers, you can't take e-bikes, you can't, you can go on foot and then a horse, no motorized anything, no chainsaws. It's, they want to preserve it, they want it to be as wild as it can be. It's like where they get the name wilderness, so.

• 6:03Speaker 01

  And it's not something that you can't, it's not something you can ignore because if you kill a bull back there, like in the beginning of September, there is an absolute time limit.

• 6:15Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  On getting that meat out. So even if you are tough enough, you're like, I'm just gonna pack this bull out. You'll never preserve all the meat. So it's like, you can't ignore it. So when a good friend of mine is like, I have animals. I want you to come with us. It's something I want to do anyways. Cause for months I had been talking about just going by myself.

• 6:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  Just, just cause it's cool and it's like Paul Schaefer and it's like you and Roy and it's like, I want to do that. But then I started thinking about it more and I was like, I don't even know if I'm ready for that yet. So I kind of wanted to learn from Cord.

• 6:51Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 6:52Speaker 01

  Like I wanted to spend this year. He's been successful back there a couple of times. So.

• 6:56Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Killed some bulls.

• 6:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. So. I don't know. He helped me out, invited me and then I was, I was back there.

• 7:05Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. I want to, uh,

• 7:08Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, there is the weather thing, the meat thing that is, you know, you did say he's like, uh, you'll never be able to get it out. You could conceivably get a bull out by yourself. Early, you gotta get really lucky. You'd have to, it'd have to be cold nights. You'd have to kill in the right spot. It's just for people who don't know. It's just not a smart thing to do. It's not smart to go by yourself to kill a bull early in September. Because there's a chance you're going to lose all that meat. It's going to spoil and that's, that's why we hunt. This, you know, honoring and respecting the animal's life is means getting that meat out. So. You said you could never do it. You could, you could conceivably do it. Odds aren't looking great.

• 7:49Speaker 01

  I mean, I was more referring to our situation like this year. It was really hot.

• 7:57Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 7:57Speaker 01

  We were really far. And, and I, I could never have done it in our situation.

• 8:06Cameron Hanes?

  Now, not probably with, not with that weather. I mean, physically I think you could make the trip. So like, I'll just break it down for people. So on this bull, you know, I killed, we got 300 pounds of bone down meat. So if you say, if you're going to pack that out yourself, 75 pounds a load, four times. If you're 10 miles back, which I don't want to say how far back you were, but you guys were way back. So 10 miles back. So you kill that bull. You first load, you break it down, conceivably the, the meat's in a good spot. First load out 10 miles to the trailhead. Okay. 10 miles back, there's 20 miles. 10 miles back to trailhead to the second load. 10 miles back, there's 40 miles.

• 8:50Cameron Hanes?

  10, 10, 10, 10, 80 miles.

• 8:54Cameron Hanes?

  Forty of it with with seventy five pounds on your back. I don't know many people who can do that. That is just, and you don't have a month to do it. You got like two days or one day when it's ninety degrees. And that's that's providing you got the hide off. You got the you got it skinned. You got the you got the guts out. You got it, the meat off the bone. Sometimes it can turn bone sour if it's warm. So there's so much work that has to be perfect before you can pack it. Or hike eighty miles with in forty of it with heavy weight. That is. This is not good. So when you say that we'll cord open the door because they had animals. That's what's required.

• 9:38Cameron Hanes?

  That's, I mean, ethically, you you shouldn't be hunting by yourself without that. And I remember when you were going, I said, because you had mentioned like, oh, solo would be cool. And you know, you read all this stuff and it is, it's amazing.

• 9:53Cameron Hanes?

  But what I said is like, I would, you know, just

• 9:59Cameron Hanes?

  take this as like an opportunity just to kind of learn the the ropes of the wilderness. And it's like, you know, don't get ahead of yourself to like, I need to go solo. Because you can learn a lot like from people who've done it in cord. Just to kill multiple bulls in the wilderness, that you're already set yourself apart. Hardly anybody does that. So it's just a good opportunity and you've you've explained it well. But that you learn from people who had been back there for years. And that makes a huge difference just with what's required, what's needed, where to camp. How how it just works. But I was super pumped. And then, as you said, cord is, you know, so capable and you can always count on them. It's it's hard finding people to count on. You can count on those guys. Cord is brother and Garrett Downing.

• 10:46Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, I mean, I spend, you know, the terrain is, it's rigorous.

• 10:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 10:52Speaker 01

  And it's hard and it beats you down. I, I like to think like I train quite a bit, a lot more than most people. I'm in pretty good shape. I'm actually in better shape than I was in the army.

• 11:02Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 11:03Speaker 01

  And that was my job.

• 11:05Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 11:05Speaker 01

  But, uh, yeah, Cord's one of those guys who like, doesn't work out.

• 11:12Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 11:12Speaker 01

  But is still.

• 11:14Cameron Hanes?

  So now shredded.

• 11:15Speaker 01

  He was literally as, as good as me hiking around. And I was like, it's bullshit.

• 11:22Speaker 01

  But, um, yeah, so he opened that door for me to go and more than that, uh, I only took a week off, or I took 10 days off of work.

• 11:34Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 11:35Speaker 01

  A lot of those guys who have been at this job longer, they'll take the whole month off so they can, you know, they live, they live for it, just like a lot of guys do. But I'm still fairly new at my job, so I didn't want to be taking a whole month off. So I took 10 days and then, uh, Cord was committed to, uh, getting me a bowl.

• 11:58Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 11:58Speaker 01

  So he was essentially sacrificing his first week so he could go out with me and, uh, help me. Well, he wanted to get me an opportunity. Killing a bull is a very, it's.

• 12:11Cameron Hanes?

  It has to go right.

• 12:11Speaker 01

  It's a whole nother thing, but if he could get me an opportunity at killing a bull, that's what he wanted to do.

• 12:18Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 12:19Speaker 01

  So, I mean, I was thankful for that too, just cause it's so, it's just a different game. It's, it's a lot.

• 12:27Cameron Hanes?

  It's rare for somebody to, to put themselves in the backseat intentionally and say, hey, I'm going to help this guy. That's for young people who have big dreams themselves and like, everybody wants to get a bowl. It's pretty rare for a younger guy to say, hey, I'm going to help you get one. That's special. I mean, that's not, and I, I don't want to, I, I might not do that. I had my own, I wanted to kill a bull. So me and Roy were always competitive, like hitting each other out of the way to get a shot. So for Cord to be way more mature than we were, but to help you is, I mean, I think that just needs to be, you know, discussed is pretty, pretty awesome of him.

• 13:07Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, he's just, he's a leader and I know he makes leadership decisions and.

• 13:12Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  You know, I'm really appreciative for that.

• 13:15Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, definitely. And then, um, did you want to talk about who else was in camp at all?

• 13:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, Garrett Downing, um, he was kind of our, our mule. Well.

• 13:27Cameron Hanes?

  Whisperer?

• 13:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, he just has been around those animals so long and I, to be honest, I didn't even do hardly anything with the mules. Cause it's a whole thing and I, and I don't want to mess anything up. You know, when it came to taking them out of the trailer or one, a few times they had me take the lead ropes and kind of walk them around just a handful of times, but it's like, I don't even really trust myself. I just don't know anything.

• 13:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 13:55Speaker 01

  You know, if you're either raised in it or you're not, and, uh, I wasn't. So, I mean, it's a whole thing and he had so much knowledge and just packing, putting everything together in the side, in the saddlebags and all the knots and the cinches and

• 14:13Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 14:13Speaker 01

  Like it's, it really is a lot of knowledge and having someone like that in those situations is like, it's a must. I mean, you know how it is, the weather turns in minutes. Sun's shining and then it gets bad and then these mules can kind of get a little rowdy and things can go south really quick. So.

• 14:37Cameron Hanes?

  High stakes.

• 14:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, it's not as, it's not as simple as like, we have mules. We get to pack in as much as we want.

• 14:47Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 14:48Speaker 01

  We get to pack out as much as we want. It's like, you could give me six mules and I would have no idea what to do. I would just have six mules with me.

• 14:56Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, there'd be nothing getting packed in.

• 14:57Speaker 01

  Or I'd have six mules with me for a couple of minutes.

• 15:00Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 15:01Speaker 01

  Before they ran off.

• 15:02Cameron Hanes?

  And they were free.

• 15:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's like.

• 15:05Cameron Hanes?

  No, that's true. It's a lot.

• 15:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, I just, well, I'm really thankful to those guys. Brody was there as well. He helped us with, it's, I mean, it's a different story, but with Cord's Bull. All those guys are just like, I was really lucky to be with them because they're not normal.

• 15:24Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 15:25Speaker 01

  And it's just, it's weird that we're all from the same town, kinda. We all, all went to the same high school. And to have four guys from.

• 15:36Speaker 01

  Like that same high school, that small of a town.

• 15:38Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 15:39Speaker 01

  Be those guys being that tough is like, I feel like it's rare. I don't know.

• 15:43Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I don't know either.

• 15:45Speaker 01

  They're all, they're all studs.

• 15:47Cameron Hanes?

  Well, we can, we can kind of cut to the chase. At the end of the day, all four of you guys killed bulls.

• 15:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's pretty crazy.

• 15:57Cameron Hanes?

  It's nuts. All wilderness, public land, and all killed with, with archery equipment. It's four for four, a hundred percent, one camp. It's, it's amazing. And, and tell me what the bulls were.

• 16:10Speaker 01

  Uh, Brody killed a, like an older, I saw it yesterday, like a more mature five point. And you know, like he has good mass on me. You can, you can kind of tell those spindly five points and then like one that's heavy.

• 16:23Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 16:24Speaker 01

  And he killed a, like a heavier one.

• 16:25Cameron Hanes?

  Older one.

• 16:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, uh, Garrett killed a five by six.

• 16:28Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 16:29Speaker 01

  Cord killed a six by six. And then I got, I got lucky with mine.

• 16:36Cameron Hanes?

  Giant.

• 16:36Speaker 01

  I mean, it's probably going to be a lifetime.

• 16:39Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 16:40Speaker 01

  Achievement for me.

• 16:41Cameron Hanes?

  Well, we were, we were staying in touch because I was off hunting somewhere else, a couple other places. And then you were back there and every once in a while you'd get service. And, uh, you know, I knew you were coming towards the end of the hunt, but finally you, you know, sent me a text. I can did it, whatever. But, uh, then you said, and I was like, super, I figured it'd be like a spike or, I mean, a five point. I killed, if I saw a five point back there, it's like, it's on, you know, five point or bigger was usually my goal. But, uh, then, you know, I was happy. It's like, oh, you got a bull. Couldn't believe it. But then you sent the picture and I was just like,

• 17:20Cameron Hanes?

  holy shit. This is the biggest wilderness bull I've ever seen shit sticking out the sides. And I'm like, so it wasn't just you got a bull. It was like, I've never seen a bull that big back there. It's, it was unreal. Um, how'd that happen?

• 17:39Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, that's kind of. I mean, so much happens before then.

• 17:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 17:46Speaker 01

  Just it's.

• 17:49Speaker 01

  A day is like three days.

• 17:51Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, I think longer than that. It feels like a day is like a week to me, but.

• 17:54Speaker 01

  It's a long time.

• 17:55Cameron Hanes?

  Different.

• 17:57Speaker 01

  It really is different. I mean, days are so long when you have one thing on your mind.

• 18:01Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 18:02Speaker 01

  And all you do is walk.

• 18:04Cameron Hanes?

  But how, how, how nice is that? You have, you need food, water, shelter, kill. That's it.

• 18:13Speaker 01

  I mean, it really is so simple.

• 18:14Cameron Hanes?

  I love that.

• 18:16Speaker 01

  It is simple and.

• 18:19Speaker 01

  You know, I. Yeah, I haven't had the, the wilderness experience. But I, I've had other experiences that were, that were hard. And it almost.

• 18:34Speaker 01

  It almost made it better to where I didn't even have to worry about.

• 18:39Speaker 01

  Like necessarily the fitness part of it, or the surviving part of it. I was pretty much solely focused on hunting.

• 18:47Cameron Hanes?

  Cause you were. Those things weren't a concern because you've, you've been in hard situations before. So you weren't like overwhelmed.

• 18:56Speaker 01

  I mean, like the. Me and the guys that I was in the army with, I mean, we get, we got really comfortable being uncomfortable. And I mean, that's kind of all it is back there is just being slightly uncomfortable all the time.

• 19:12Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 19:12Speaker 01

  And. I'm pretty good at it now, and I don't really care about being like super. Uncomfortable, but it was nice not having to worry about that. So. And that kind of helped me focus on some things. I had cord with me for. A couple of the first days. So we packed in on. Packed in on Friday. I walked in. They took most of my gear so I could save my legs a little bit.

• 19:41Cameron Hanes?

  So opening day Saturday, packed in the day before.

• 19:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, on Friday. And then so I walked in, got there, we set up camp, which is more than just popping up a tent because there's those mules. So so we did all that. And then Cord had a plan. He wanted to get up on top of the ridge and he wanted to glass and see if he could see anything in there. So I was like, just trying to be a student and I was down for anything. Like I'd go anywhere. I didn't care. So then we loaded up our packs. My pack was

• 20:20Speaker 01

  I was, I was planning on being out there the entire time.

• 20:23Cameron Hanes?

  So you took how many meals?

• 20:24Speaker 01

  I had, well, I took less food than I should have, but I had 14 meals.

• 20:31Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 20:31Speaker 01

  And I had snacks and stuff like that. But I had all my sleep stuff. I had all my gear, tarps and everything. My pack wasn't that light.

• 20:38Cameron Hanes?

  Probably forty some fifty pounds?

• 20:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was, well, I had weighed it before we left and it was thirty five dry.

• 20:46Cameron Hanes?

  So no water?

• 20:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:47Cameron Hanes?

  So with water over forty?

• 20:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. And you would think like eating food makes your pack lighter, but those freeze dried meals are so light that it doesn't really do you a favor eating.

• 20:57Cameron Hanes?

  No, they're dehydrated. So the actual food isn't that heavy, but the packaging, you're still packing. It's not like you're throwing that in the bushes. But yeah, you're not, it's not getting too much lighter.

• 21:10Speaker 01

  So yeah, we got on the ridge at a

• 21:14Speaker 01

  right at dusk and then we were glassing. I didn't even glass them. Cord glassed them. He's just, he's better at me than the stuff. He glasses up some elk down there and there's a bull bugling in the bottom. So that was cool. And then it was like, we kind of had a starting point. And season was in the next morning. So it was pretty exciting. And then, uh, yeah, then woke up in the morning to glass again. And then there were some more bulls down there. I actually think we saw five bulls.

• 21:48Cameron Hanes?

  It's a good first day.

• 21:48Speaker 01

  They were like satellites.

• 21:52Speaker 01

  I don't, I don't think the rep was, obviously it was super early and it wasn't on, so they're all kind of hanging out together, but they were all walking in a line together and it was like five bulls.

• 22:00Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 22:01Speaker 01

  That was pretty cool. Uh, you can't just like get over there.

• 22:06Cameron Hanes?

  How far were they?

• 22:08Speaker 01

  On the other side.

• 22:09Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, the drainage, that's quite a process then.

• 22:12Speaker 01

  I mean, it's a, it's a complete ordeal, but you know, you still hunt everywhere else too, even though you see other things. Um, so yeah, we get up and then we walked around and we kind of walked all day up and down through other drainages and then didn't really hear anything and we were sitting down for a snack and um, there was like, there was a bull bugling in the bottom. And then so we went after him, kind of chased him, cord was calling, calling, calling. We were kind of moving forward towards them, kind of closing distance. And he was on the other side.

• 22:54Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 22:55Speaker 01

  So now we're one drainage over, but he's on the other side. So

• 23:04Speaker 01

  uh, it's taken us all day. I think it's like 5pm or something like that. And uh, cord, this is cord suggestion. He was like, I think we should go after him. And it was 5pm, uh, and I was like, okay, like, let's go. So we then had a plan. Thought he was on this flat over there. Then we worked our way around. This is still opening day. We did a lot of stuff in one day.

• 23:32Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 23:32Speaker 01

  And then we get up on the other side and uh, we're, you look at Onyx, which is a great tool, but sometimes you can, you think you know where stuff is and it messes you up once you get over there.

• 23:49Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 23:50Speaker 01

  Not that this messed us up, but I was just walking in front, cord had planned on calling and we were walking through an opening. Sun is like directly on my white face.

• 23:59Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 23:59Speaker 01

  So, and I wasn't even expecting to see anything, not at this point. And

• 24:06Speaker 01

  I'm walking and then I just I'm looking forward into this burnt timber and there is a bull bedded. Like half his face. I could see his rack. He's a five point and I just immediately dropped to the ground. Cord follows suit, drops to the ground. I like look back at him and kind of mouth.

• 24:26Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 24:27Speaker 01

  Uh, I didn't, the bull's close, like forty yards.

• 24:31Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 24:32Speaker 01

  And he's just staring half a tree like right to me.

• 24:36Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 24:37Speaker 01

  And so I kind of tell him the situation and he's like, I'm gonna drop back and cow call. So I was like, okay. Uh, I belly crawl over to the shade of this tree in front of me and I'm on my knees and I have a pack on. And I'm trying to get ranges and uh, so I knock an arrow, everything. I have a dial site. I'm trying to get ranges on this thing and it's kind of hard because I'm down low now in the grass. And then finally cord gets the bull to stand up. And then he walks to the, walks to his left, my right.

• 25:11Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 25:12Speaker 01

  And I range him forty-three. I dial my sight to forty-three. Then he keeps walking and then he faces me, but through this like burnt bouquet of branches.

• 25:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 25:24Speaker 01

  And I'm just kind of waiting and then he takes another step to the, his left and he's between two burnt trees. Uh, and, and he puts his ass towards me and he's looking back over his body at me.

• 25:38Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 25:39Speaker 01

  I'm not gonna take that shot, obviously, but I, in my head, I can get a good range on him at least. And uh, so I range him fifty yards, dial my sight and then the next part that happens is I am a

• 25:56Speaker 01

  I've watched you make difficult shots a lot. I mean, I filmed you for an entire season and there is I, I don't think people realize that there's shots that are um, Like outside of your wheelhouse, like as a new hunter. And this was like, kind of one of those situations.

• 26:17Speaker 01

  So I ranged him at 50 and in my head, I'm playing it like he's going to step, one more step to the left in between these trees and I'm gonna mew and shoot, kind of all in one at 50 yards on my knees with a pack on. And sure as shit, I mean, he does it. And I mew and shoot and I do all the stuff. Like it, it went really well.

• 26:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 26:45Speaker 01

  As far as all that stuff. I shot.

• 26:50Speaker 01

  And uh, yeah, I, I hit him and he ran off and I was watching him and all of my arrow was hanging out of his shoulder. And I knew that was not good. And uh, I was just trying to convince myself that, I mean, I wanted to kill a bull back there so bad that I was convincing myself that it was a good shot. And I even went back before we started trailing, I went to cord and I was like, it was a good shot. I told him, then I told him how much of the arrow. And I immediately could see his face change.

• 27:33Speaker 01

  And he like knew, but I wasn't ready to accept it. And then uh,

• 27:40Speaker 01

  yeah. Blood trailed, bull shouldered.

• 27:43Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 27:43Speaker 01

  And we blood trailed him, there's barely any blood, he went directly uphill. And uh, that was that. And yeah. I know guys don't like talk about that stuff a lot. I don't know if it's not tasteful or, or whatever, like hitting a, hitting a bull. But like, I mean, it happened and I. I don't know. I just feel like it happens more often than people think or want to talk about.

• 28:14Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it does. I mean, I'll be honest, and people who've read my stuff know this, but the first bull I shot at a giant seven by six, I hit in the shoulder blade. And what happens for people who don't know, generally, there's, there's exceptions to every rule, but generally, the arrow goes in about two or three inches through the muscle on the outside of the shoulder blade and stops. An arrow, most of the time on a big bull, cannot penetrate the shoulder blade. It's like, it's like a, it's like a suit of armor for them. It protects their chest and their lungs and that area, and they fight all the time.

• 28:51Cameron Hanes?

  Very aggressive animals, so they're, they're heavily muscled, heavily boned, and arrow just will not go through. So essentially, what happens, and what happened with you, was a couple inches of penetration, generally, the arrow goes in, hits the shoulder blade, and then will fall out. And for a bull who's used to fighting, living in the wilderness every day, the hardest, harshest environments anybody could live in for 365 days, generally, in the West here, and they are so tough. They fight, they get jabbed with antlers all the time, jabbed with sticks, chased by wolves. It's a hard life. A little wound from a, and here's the difference too with an arrow.

• 29:36Cameron Hanes?

  Animals recover from arrow wounds all the time because it's a clean cut, and so that cut can heal well. Whereas a bullet, it causes so much damage, tears up muscle, creates these holes in the muscle that get infected. So a wound with a rifle, much different than a wound with an arrow. Not to say that, I'm not saying one's better or worse, I'm just saying how it is. Animals recover from arrow wounds all the time. They have a harder time with the, with the rifle wound. That said, we still don't just shoot and then just like, ah, hit him in the shoulder blade, onto the next. It's, it's a hell of a, of a process to verify that's what happened. You had your first inclination on what happened.

• 30:19Cameron Hanes?

  You said Cord's face changed because he knew that happened and what, what that means. But you guys still went through, had the due diligence to verify that that bull was not fatally wounded. Is that right?

• 30:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I mean, we blood trailed.

• 30:38Speaker 01

  Honestly, the blood was so minimal, but we blood trailed. We were on hands and knees. I mean, blades of grass.

• 30:48Cameron Hanes?

  This is what you do as an archer. You have to verify this.

• 30:51Speaker 01

  And he was, and yeah, blood runs out and tracks and the blood was going directly up the hill, which is, I mean, it's not like a rolling hill. It's a mountain.

• 31:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 31:03Speaker 01

  And, uh, yeah. So then we went as far, we, we did that for as long as we possibly could. Found a flat spot to camp, camped, woke up in the morning, tried to pick it back up and did that for a few more hours. And, uh, I mean, the writing was, it was on the wall. We knew it was just trying to spend a couple of days doing it, uh, just to verify. Cause I mean, I would have been done. Like if I, if I gut shot a bull and didn't find him, like I, I would be done.

• 31:39Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Cause he's gonna die.

• 31:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:41Cameron Hanes?

  And we're not, we're not killing multiple bulls out there.

• 31:44Speaker 01

  No, like I, I felt absolutely terrible.

• 31:47Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. No, there's no.

• 31:48Speaker 01

  I felt terrible. I felt terrible about the shoulder.

• 31:51Cameron Hanes?

  There's no worse feeling. I know.

• 31:52Speaker 01

  But it does bring you some, uh, like peace that he's going to be, he's going to be fine. And, uh, I mean, the nuts and bolts of it is like, I'm a man in the mountains and you can try to paint it whatever way you want, but I'm trying to kill, I'm trying to kill him. Like it's, it's not as pretty as like some Instagram stuff or, I mean, it's like real, real stuff.

• 32:27Cameron Hanes?

  It's life and death.

• 32:28Speaker 01

  Like I'm, I'm, and sometime, and he doesn't want to die.

• 32:31Cameron Hanes?

  No.

• 32:32Speaker 01

  And I'm trying to kill him. He is a professional.

• 32:36Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 32:36Speaker 01

  At staying alive.

• 32:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 32:38Speaker 01

  So, I mean, it's like, I don't know. You just, guys never talk about it and they just like.

• 32:46Speaker 01

  I'm sure they do it way more often than they talk about. Stuff like that happens. This isn't a private ranch I paid for. Like I'm balls deep in the wilderness, trying to kill this giant thing and sometimes it doesn't work. So it's like, I don't know. I like the, I like stuff being as,

• 33:11Speaker 01

  like,

• 33:12Cameron Hanes?

  Transparent.

• 33:13Speaker 01

  Well, no, it's just like the, the roots of it, like, like, you know, like Indians and, you know, it's just like, that's what we're trying to do back here. It's the most, I had said it before. Well, I, I wrote this thing about this whole hunt, but in that, in the writing, I said that these mules, uh, once they're set free in this like, wilderness pasture, they kind of go back to their ancestral.

• 33:40Cameron Hanes?

  Again.

• 33:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, they, they do. Like you can't catch them and they're like, fuck you. Like this is awesome.

• 33:47Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. No rules back here.

• 33:49Speaker 01

  No, and honestly, we are doing the same. Like me, Garrett, Brody and Court were like, we have a bow in the mountains and we're doing what our ancestors did. So like, I, I like that part of it. Sometimes it's not that pretty and it doesn't mean that I don't care, but I'm just trying to accomplish something, you know?

• 34:13Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. I will say when, when Roy and I first went back there, that seemed like the elk were different than here. I always said, or I think we said, but we joked that they had that high octane fuel, like jet fuel back there and they were just faster, more in tune, more aware. And it's like, we had to be on, on our A game to get anything killed back there. And not, not to say it's easy here. It just, they seemed more wild back there and it just took like, okay. This is, yeah, th- this is the real deal. But those animals, yeah, you have to be at an elevated level and they're at an elevated level. Everybody's trying to live, survive,

• 34:57Cameron Hanes?

  kill each other in some cases. It's just the way it goes. And sometimes it's, it's, I mean, death, hunting, life back there isn't always pretty. There's a, there's high stakes and there's some gray area and shit happens.

• 35:14Cameron Hanes?

  With bow hunting? Yeah. I mean, anybody who bow hunts long enough is gonna learn all about that shoulder blade on a big bull. It's just, you're gonna learn about it. And people get, I know I've been, thought I had it figured out. I know a couple of years ago, I had a 90-pound bow, and I was gonna shoot the single bevel broadhead. It's a bone breaker. And so this bull came in like at 10 yards, and I'm like, I'm like, oh, I can just pound right through the shoulder, 90-pound bow. I can get through that shoulder on that bull. And I shot at 10 yards, and the arrow just, and just stopped. And no penetration. But thankfully, that bull

• 35:54Cameron Hanes?

  went out to 60, and I was able to shoot him again when he stopped. And I got him killed, but it wouldn't have been, that first arrow wouldn't have done it. And I learned my lesson there. So still, even though we talk about all this, and everybody knows, we still have to discuss it. Because even me, after all these years, a couple of years ago, I tried it again, and it didn't work. So it's just, guys, stay away from that shoulder. I know that wasn't intentional. You didn't try to hit that. But people, because these 3D targets are designed in such a way, you get so used to looking at that crease and trying to get that arrow in that crease, which you have, you have 18 inches behind that crease to

• 36:36Cameron Hanes?

  kill and still get lungs and liver. Stay away from the crease. Because an inch or two on the wrong side of the crease to the forward, to the forward end of the elk, you're just not gonna get penetration. And that's, that's what you learned on that one. I've learned it myself. As I said, on my first bull, I've learned it multiple times, unfortunately, over the course of, you know, 35 years of bow hunting. But tell me, what that felt like. You felt, I'm sure, I'm sure you felt, you couldn't have felt worse. You let cord down, sure. So tell me, what that feels like, to be, have so much invested in that,

• 37:18Cameron Hanes?

  and to fail, essentially. It's, it's life. But, explain it to me.

• 37:27Speaker 01

  Well, before I went on this trip, you had given me the suggestion of writing and keeping a journal with me. And so I did, I had pen and paper and I was kind of writing in it. And I would just do it at night or, you know, some days I'd miss a day and I'd catch up on it. And I'm sure I got on my phone what, what I wrote that night. But.

• 38:04Cameron Hanes?

  What I've learned too is why I mentioned that to you is there's no real or more raw moments than when you're in the wilderness by yourself. And I thought it's kind of therapeutic, but also it's important for, you know, we, a lot of people will like to criticize social media and sharing their experiences and this and that. But I like to celebrate sharing what the moments. And when you get home, it's a little diluted. You kind of fill in the blanks on some stuff. Maybe you're not as honest as you would have been laying in a sleeping bag at night. So I thought it was important for you to, let's get it when it happens.

• 38:49Cameron Hanes?

  Do that journal, do it at night and let's, just because it's so valuable to have those, those incredible memories etched that are, that are so truthful and so real that are etched in essentially your history forever. So tell me what you wrote that night.

• 39:07Speaker 01

  Um, yeah. So, I mean, this is just a picture of, a picture of my journal, but I have, I have a picture of it. I just, that night I wrote, "I cannot recall a time where I felt like more of a failure in my entire life. I felt like a husband and a father who let their wife and daughter down. A son that let their wilderness veteran father down. Uh, I could have cried in the middle of the wilderness, a bow in hand, and I blew it."

• 39:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that hurts.

• 39:43Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 39:44Cameron Hanes?

  That hurts and nobody wants to know what that feels like.

• 39:51Cameron Hanes?

  But when you do, it can be life changing and it's some people. They get to that point and in in in real life, you can. You can protect yourself from moments like that. You're gonna be disappointed, but that is like so much disappointment. And so what happens back there is it hurts so bad. Some people never go back. Some people like, I'm not facing that pain. I'm not facing that feeling of failure ever again. I'm not putting so much into this, thinking about this for years and months and training and failing. And having it hurt so bad. I'm not doing this. I'm gonna start rifle hunting, you know, I'm gonna start whatever hunting. I'm not doing this again.

• 40:34Cameron Hanes?

  Or they might not say that, but that's what happens. They just don't go back because it it hurts. So to overcome something like that, it's either you got two directions you can go. You can never go back or you can be like. Okay, this hurts. Now what? Now what am I gonna do? So what'd you do?

• 40:56Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, that. I had put so much like pressure on myself to succeed. I mean, I feel like that helps me out a lot is putting pressure on myself like that. Just cuz I, I don't know.

• 41:15Speaker 01

  I wanted to succeed so bad. And when you are that close inches from succeeding. It, that's what almost makes it like it would hurt less if I didn't see an elk.

• 41:27Cameron Hanes?

  Or just or to miss.

• 41:29Speaker 01

  If the arrow missed completely.

• 41:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 41:32Speaker 01

  But I was three inches from

• 41:36Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 41:37Speaker 01

  Achieving my goal and being able to text you and my wife and. And just and be completely satisfied, but I I blew it. And I didn't know if I was gonna get another opportunity. But with that said, even after that, I only had that 10 days or nine days. And I was telling Cord that I had, I was come, I was gonna find a way to come back that season. Like, I didn't know how I was gonna do it. But I told him and I told you, I think over text, once I got on the ridge. I was like, I'm, I'm gonna come back this, this season. Cause I didn't know if I was gonna get another opportunity, but I wasn't done. Like I, I didn't.

• 42:22Cameron Hanes?

  You were thrown in the towel.

• 42:23Speaker 01

  No, I didn't want to be done.

• 42:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 42:27Speaker 01

  I just wanted to keep going. But, uh, yeah. We, uh, spent that next day trying to do that. And then another day, Cord tried to help me for another day. And so this is day three of being out there and the bulls weren't talking. And then Cord was like, I feel like a jackass walking behind you with a tube. And the bulls aren't talking. He was like, so he suggested, uh, let's, do you want to separate? And then we'll have a better chance. Cause I was just walking in front of him and he was just walking behind me.

• 43:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 43:03Speaker 01

  And then I kind of got my opportunity and I blew it. So he has a tag in his pocket too, so I don't blame him.

• 43:10Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 43:11Speaker 01

  Like he wants to hunt too.

• 43:12Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Everybody's got dreams.

• 43:14Speaker 01

  So we separated. And, uh, that third day, I was so hot walking around.

• 43:24Speaker 01

  Uh, three days is a long freaking time. And I was getting kind of worn down.

• 43:28Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 43:29Speaker 01

  And I convinced myself that I was in a bad spot. I needed to go back to camp, uh, and go to a different place, reset at camp. Whatever. Basically, I was being like weak, weak minded. I kind of let it get to me. So I I drop all the way down, which I mean, people might think like, oh, you just drop down to the trail. Like you'll be you'll be back at camp in forty minutes. It's like, no, it's like a six hour thing.

• 44:00Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 44:01Speaker 01

  I'm like coming off of a mountain. So you're really committed to to throwing in the towel.

• 44:06Cameron Hanes?

  If you draw, if you're dropping to the bottom, like it's a big thing.

• 44:10Speaker 01

  You thought about it. You thought about it for a long time.

• 44:12Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 44:13Speaker 01

  And I even was dropping down. I drop about a thousand foot and then I would say, do I want to go down? I was like, I'm not going to come back up here if I go down. And then I was like, no, I'm gonna go down. And then I'd go a little bit further. I stopped at even at Ada Peaks. And I was like, do I want to go down? And then I was like, I've gone too far. Now I'm just gonna go down.

• 44:36Cameron Hanes?

  Is it like four thousand feet? I mean, is it drop?

• 44:39Speaker 01

  It's if you're at the top, it's a long ways.

• 44:42Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 44:42Speaker 01

  It's a freaking, it's probably like three thousand.

• 44:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 44:45Speaker 01

  But when you're walking with a pack on like it's it's not like it's a trail, but so I get all the way to the bottom and then I'm walking back. Was once you get to the bottom, it's like a while to get back anyways. And then I see Cord and

• 45:04Speaker 01

  he shot a bull and I went to go help him. So we go out and help him recover this bull. And I mean, like we talked about, it's a it's a lot of stuff. Once you kill a bull. So it's nice to have somebody and

• 45:19Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 45:20Speaker 01

  I wasn't just gonna walk by him and be like, well, he even said, he didn't even expect me to go. He was like, I don't know what you're doing if you're you're gonna go hunting. And I was like, no, I'm gonna go help you.

• 45:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 45:32Speaker 01

  So then we wait and got this bull and took care of it and hung the meat and everything and. That moment, like seeing Cord with his bull, killed a nice six point bull. It was like that, I needed it, like I needed to see.

• 45:51Cameron Hanes?

  Something positive.

• 45:52Speaker 01

  I needed to see what it was like for someone to hold antlers.

• 45:56Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 45:56Speaker 01

  And like accomplish it back there, cause I was like, I ended up telling him, it sounds shitty, but I was jealous.

• 46:04Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 46:05Speaker 01

  Like not jealous in the way like.

• 46:08Cameron Hanes?

  Just of that feeling.

• 46:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, not jealous in the way like I wanna take it from him.

• 46:12Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 46:12Speaker 01

  But I want that too.

• 46:14Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 46:15Speaker 01

  You know, so I saw him with it and I was like, I want that so bad. It was like, I feel bad, cause it was hard for me to enjoy the moment with him.

• 46:29Speaker 01

  Just because I wanted it so bad too.

• 46:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 46:31Speaker 01

  And I didn't know if I was gonna get it.

• 46:32Cameron Hanes?

  I know exactly what that's, everybody knows what that's like.

• 46:35Speaker 01

  But you know, he accomplished his goal too, so I.

• 46:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 46:38Speaker 01

  And I gotta feel good for him and so I helped him and I got the spark I needed again. And he gave me all his snacks, which is nice. And once he got the meat hung, I was like, I'm going back up. And he was like, okay, so he, they had to pack the meat out on mules. So that's a few day thing, but I was like, I'm going back up on the mountain. And that night, I've walked all the way back up. Which took me, I left at noon and I got back up there at seven. So it took me a really long time.

• 47:15Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 47:16Speaker 01

  Cause some of that lower stuff too is like cliff falls and it's like.

• 47:19Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 47:19Speaker 01

  You gotta pack on and you're, you're all fours, holding on to stuff. It is kinda dangerous, but got all the way back up there. And then I had the spark I needed again, so that was good. And then.

• 47:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, hunted for a few more days up there and I ended up calling in a bull just with cow calls. I don't, I guess, maybe it was random. Who knows? But it was actually a nice bull.

• 47:49Cameron Hanes?

  Really?

• 47:49Speaker 01

  And I was like, I, I have time. And there's still, there's still elk here.

• 47:56Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, like still a chance.

• 47:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. But, so I did that for like, a few more days. I'm on day five or six or seven.

• 48:09Cameron Hanes?

  Were you staying positive pretty much that whole time?

• 48:12Speaker 01

  Uh, it, it was like fleeting, but the mornings would be positive.

• 48:16Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 48:17Speaker 01

  Every morning I got up, I, I thought I had a chance. And then it gets ninety, ninety degrees, ninety-five degrees. You've been walking all day and, uh, you know, kind of goes away. Feeling kind of comes back. Once you eat some food or drink some water, you think you have a chance again. And then, I don't know, our minds are really weird.

• 48:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 48:38Speaker 01

  But that time that I was alone, I literally, I remember talking to you before I left and even on text messages, and you told me just keep moving.

• 48:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 48:52Speaker 01

  Keep moving. So I would be walking and I would just, in my head, just say, keep moving, keep moving. And I would just be walking. Cause I mean, I didn't, I lack experience, but I could, I felt like I could make up for it with hard work.

• 49:12Cameron Hanes?

  With work, yeah.

• 49:13Speaker 01

  It just by moving. And, uh, so that's what I did. And then it's different when you're with somebody. You're not, you kind of talk to them a lot and it's kind of nice and you can distract yourself. But when I was alone and I had nothing to do, I was so committed to anything happening. I would stop and eat lunch and I would knock an arrow while I was eating lunch, just because I didn't know what was going to happen, like.

• 49:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that, that's what stood out to me is you were hunting all the time. You were always engaged. And I, and I told you this too, that is hard. That takes, when you're like, Like engaged all day in the mountains is can be exhausting like mentally or

• 50:00Cameron Hanes?

  your nervous system is kind of taxed all the time. You're always like aware and people just don't know what that it's it can be fatiguing because it's like all day you're thinking, thinking, thinking, what can I do? What can I do? What can I do? And it's but that's that's what it takes because most people they just punch out. They're like, I'm, I'm gonna lay down for a lot tired to take a nap and who knows what's gonna happen or if they're prepared or not. So yeah, that's what I was super impressed that yes, you were always moving because what I always would say I would just cover cover ground. You don't know what's gonna happen if you keep moving. But also I was super impressed that you were just always in the game, you know, at least mentally.

• 50:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, specifically one time I set up my camp.

• 50:50Speaker 01

  Well, there were some clouds rolling in and Court had told me stories of like you told me stories too that like that weather can change so fast up there in the mountains that I was we had nice weather, so I didn't have to worry about it too much, but I did see some clouds. So I was like, had some daylight.

• 51:10Speaker 01

  Then I was kind of thinking about survival stuff. So I was like, I need to set up my camp real quick while I have light. So I set up a tarp. Because I only have a bivvy sack and I mean, bivvies extra light, but your your pack can't go in there. And then I didn't want a big wet pack. It had all my clothes in it and stuff. So I set this tarp up, still had some light and then I kind of called it for the night with about 10 minutes left of shooting light. And I sat down and I took my shoes off. My feet hurt so bad. I wore really shitty socks. So the bottoms of my toes like didn't have, I was trying to walk so quiet all the time that I was gripping the ground. And it like took the skin off the bottom of my toes. So my feet were really tender.

• 51:56Speaker 01

  So I took my socks and shoes off and I was just sitting there and I was like, I have freaking 10 minutes left and I was on this little flat. So then I just put my boots back on with no socks on and I just sat on a log, looking over this little flat for 10 minutes, just until it got dark and then I went back to what I was doing. But I was like, what if there was a freaking elk that walked by?

• 52:19Cameron Hanes?

  This could be it.

• 52:20Speaker 01

  I was like, that could have been it.

• 52:21Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 52:22Speaker 01

  So I don't know. I was just thinking about that stuff a lot. And then uh,

• 52:29Speaker 01

  I didn't kill bull doing that stuff, but uh, so I was down to, this is seven days, seven days of this.

• 52:43Speaker 01

  Probably half of it with Cord, half with myself and then I had one day left and uh, I was just trying to problem solve. And I was like, I, those, those guys are down there. I don't know. Maybe they've heard something or they could point me in the right direction. Like I have, I have resources and I haven't tapped into them.

• 53:08Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 53:08Speaker 01

  So I was like, I'm just gonna go back there. But this wasn't, this is a different feeling than I had before. This, this wasn't a quitting feeling.

• 53:15Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 53:16Speaker 01

  I was like, I'm gonna go back and see if uh, I can get some intel for this last day.

• 53:22Cameron Hanes?

  Still hopeful.

• 53:23Speaker 01

  I, I was, I mean, I was still hopeful. I wasn't throwing it in yet, but I get back and uh, they were down there. They just got back from packing the meat out. So they went out and then I think they stayed the night at the trailhead and they packed back in the morning. And they were just kinda hanging out. And Cord, Cord said that I came walking in with my shirt off and shorts on and he said, I look like a beat puppy.

• 53:53Speaker 01

  I, I mean, I honestly had, a week is a long time.

• 53:57Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 53:58Speaker 01

  And I was pretty run down. Like I had that pack on that entire time. I was tired. I had one peak left, one meal left. I had one pop tart left. And that was all I had. So I was like,

• 54:15Speaker 01

  yeah, and he was like, uh,

• 54:19Speaker 01

  Do you want to go out? I had already planned on going out, but he was like, do you want to go out tomorrow? One last ditch effort? He's like, I'll call for you. And I was like, yeah, I was like, let's, let's do it. And then so I stayed the night there for the first time at the main camp. I hadn't stayed there one time. Uh, I, oh, I saw Garrett Downing there and I said, uh, I haven't seen you in a week.

• 54:43Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 54:43Speaker 01

  Because I hadn't.

• 54:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 54:45Speaker 01

  I hadn't seen him in seven days. And then so, yeah, uh, we started in the morning. Cord kind of had a plan. So I was going, go, I was open to anything.

• 54:56Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 54:57Speaker 01

  You know?

• 54:57Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, yeah.

• 54:59Speaker 01

  So I just kind of, he let me lead and he wanted to get to the top of this drainage and, he'll tell you, I was, I kept side hilling, side hilling. And he, he stopped me and he said, I know you keep side hilling. He's like, but that side hill is not going to get you to the top any faster. He said, we need to go up.

• 55:23Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 55:23Speaker 01

  And I was like, I know. I was just fricking tired.

• 55:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 55:28Speaker 01

  So then we just went straight up. I don't, I don't know how far it was, maybe 1,500 feet, but, I mean, it was a lot at that point, at that juncture in my life, it was a lot.

• 55:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I bet.

• 55:39Speaker 01

  And then so we get all the way to the top and we make our way around. And then as soon as we get in there, uh, kind of where we can start doing stuff, Cord wants to rip a bugle and just like over the land, see if anything will answer.

• 55:55Cameron Hanes?

  Locate.

• 55:56Speaker 01

  It had been a little cooler at night too, which was nice. Like we were thinking, you know, maybe it could start them.

• 56:01Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 56:03Speaker 01

  And then, uh, a bull answers in the bottom. And, and we thought a bull answered about our elevation, but over to the left.

• 56:13Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 56:13Speaker 01

  And, uh, we just kind of sat there and we just listened. And, uh, this bull in the bottom was just going off,

• 56:23Speaker 01

  like unprovoked repeatedly, just bugling, bugling, bugling, bugling. This one to the left would, uh, I, he might've bugled back two times. But the one in the bottom, you could tell it's like,

• 56:37Cameron Hanes?

  He's fired up.

• 56:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, like.

• 56:40Speaker 01

  We didn't really know why, because Court had kind of provoked it with his bugle. But then it was like, this thing's going freaking insane down there. And then, so there was like a few key decisions that needed to be made. He was like, it's your hunt. What do you want to do? And I was like, I think we put all our eggs in one basket and we go after the one in the bottom. Knowing, once we drop down again, that's my week.

• 57:08Cameron Hanes?

  That's it. Like, you're not getting back to the top.

• 57:10Speaker 01

  I'm not going to go back up. He kind, Court knew that. I knew that.

• 57:15Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 57:15Speaker 01

  Like, I wasn't going to go back up. And, but I was okay with that. I was willing to be as aggressive as possible that last day. And so we go after the one on the bottom. And then another decision that had to be made was like, can we try to pull this? We determined that the bull was on the other side. And other side of the water, the creek. And it was like, do we want to try to get him fired up? Have him cross?

• 57:43Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 57:44Speaker 01

  And come towards us? Because we had good wind.

• 57:45Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 57:46Speaker 01

  Obviously, we're high, thermals were coming up. And, uh,

• 57:51Speaker 01

  yeah, I just, I didn't want to chance anything. I just kind of wanted to go. I just wanted to do, try to do everything and completely expend my tank and just like, no, let's cross and go up again and get above him and be on his side. Because I kind of thought I'd watched you a bunch and those bulls, like, they'll respond pretty much from anywhere, but they won't get as mad or come to you unless you're close.

• 58:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 58:26Speaker 01

  Because then they're like, well, I guess I got to do something about this now.

• 58:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, cross on the creek is going to be a tough, tough ask of a bull. But if you get right above them, now we're talking.

• 58:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, so we did that. And then we crossed over, it kind of took us a while and we got above him and we kind of were using Onyx. Cord's really good with Onyx and identifying where bedding areas are. So I, I mean, I was learning that from him too. But we're like, I think he's here. Kind of sounds like he's here.

• 58:56Cameron Hanes?

  Like a little bench or something?

• 58:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, you can just kind of tell with the contour lines, like it was a bigger opening, which is hard to tell back there because everything's so steep. You see a contour line that's like slightly

• 59:07Cameron Hanes?

  Spread out.

• 59:07Speaker 01

  Slightly larger.

• 59:08Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 59:09Speaker 01

  They can't sleep there.

• 59:10Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 59:11Speaker 01

  So we kind of did that and then we did a little setup and Cord called and called and called and called and uh, nothing happened.

• 59:20Cameron Hanes?

  Like how long?

• 59:22Speaker 01

  Uh, I mean, I mean, it was like, maybe 10, 10 minutes.

• 59:28Cameron Hanes?

  Bugles or cow calls?

• 59:30Speaker 01

  Uh, a whole schmorgus cord.

• 59:32Cameron Hanes?

  Everything.

• 59:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, he kind of did it all, but then uh, I look back at Cord, he's like 60 yards behind me and he was like, we need to move up.

• 59:41Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 59:42Speaker 01

  Like go after him and then we kind of moved up. We even sat down for a second. I kind of thought that was it.

• 59:47Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 59:48Speaker 01

  Bullet, we hadn't heard him.

• 59:50Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 59:50Speaker 01

  And

• 59:51Cameron Hanes?

  So he was going crazy and then he shot up when he got closer kind of?

• 59:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. And well, I mean, we just didn't hear him. Wasn't there, wasn't where he thought he was. And then

• 1:00:02Speaker 01

  kind of sat down for a second and then uh, we decided that, well, if we're going to go down, we might as well hunt through where we think he was or whatever. And Cord was kind of looking around the face and was like, looks like some burnt timber over there. And uh, he's looking on Onyx. He's like, I think that could be a good bedding area over there too. So we can work around and work our way down through that.

• 1:00:30Cameron Hanes?

  What time was this?

• 1:00:31Speaker 01

  Uh, probably 2:00 PM.

• 1:00:34Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:00:35Speaker 01

  And then so, so we do that, make our way around, bunch of windfall. It's kind of a pain in the ass to get through, but we finally get over there. And then we're just kind of standing there side like shoulder to shoulder and Cord lets one bugle go. We hadn't heard this bull in uh, probably over an hour.

• 1:00:54Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 1:00:54Speaker 01

  Or however much time it took us to get down and around.

• 1:00:57Cameron Hanes?

  Were you guys being quiet the whole time kind of?

• 1:00:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, we were walking quietly, talking quietly.

• 1:01:03Speaker 01

  Um, so he lets that bugle go and then that bull or yeah, the bull that we were going after just goes off and he's really close, just an absolute scream and uh.

• 1:01:19Cameron Hanes?

  Do you guys just scatter? Just like, holy shit, what'd you do?

• 1:01:22Speaker 01

  No, I was like, I was kind of on this little, we were kind of standing on this little point almost. And uh, to my li- or to my right was like almost an opening of trees and there was like a sapling in the middle. But there was like a lot of shooting lanes and uh, I suggested to, to Cord, I was like, uh, you should run up there and call and try to pull him across this opening. Cause I, I mean, I didn't want him to come right at me.

• 1:01:51Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:52Speaker 01

  So Cord friggin' sprints up there. He, he told me he didn't even get as far as he wanted because this, this bull was coming.

• 1:02:00Cameron Hanes?

  Oh.

• 1:02:01Speaker 01

  And I'm like, I mean, you've heard it a million times. It literally could have been a spike walking up and I was gonna shoot him like.

• 1:02:10Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I did not.

• 1:02:11Cameron Hanes?

  First wilderness bow kill. Yeah.

• 1:02:13Speaker 01

  No, I had no.

• 1:02:15Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, no trophy hunting.

• 1:02:17Speaker 01

  No, I was just trying to get experience, you know? So Cord runs up there at an angle from me and uh, I'm like looking down.

• 1:02:26Cameron Hanes?

  So he's trying to pull it like in a triangle to pull it by you broadside.

• 1:02:30Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:02:31Cameron Hanes?

  Right? Not, not lined up where he's pulling the bull right over the top of you, but doing like you should do, make a triangle, pull it by broadside so you get a good shot.

• 1:02:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and we're positioned well because we were uphill from them. So our thermals are still going up. We got good wind.

• 1:02:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:45Speaker 01

  And this, and I'm looking down the hill. Oh, Cord runs up there. I immediately dropped to my knees, literally right where I was standing.

• 1:02:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:52Speaker 01

  And uh, knock an arrow.

• 1:02:55Speaker 01

  And then, uh.

• 1:02:58Speaker 01

  I don't know. Oh, I ranged. I looked over to that opening and I ranged a tree at thirty and I ranged the sapling at eighteen. And I would, the way Cord went, I was like, if he walks between there, it'll be about twenty-five yards. So I was like, okay, twenty-five, set my dial to twenty-five and then I'm sitting there and I'm like waiting. And then I'm looking down the hill and I see a body and I'm like, oh, there's a frickin' bull. And then the trees are kind of covering it and then I see his rack and I was like,

• 1:03:31Speaker 01

  oh, my God.

• 1:03:32Cameron Hanes?

  It was giant.

• 1:03:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, cuz his right side was to me that had that flyer.

• 1:03:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:38Speaker 01

  You see like any extra.

• 1:03:40Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:03:41Speaker 01

  If there's any extra stuff.

• 1:03:42Cameron Hanes?

  Yes.

• 1:03:42Speaker 01

  On a bull, it's quite alarming.

• 1:03:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:47Speaker 01

  So he was coming up and he, I knew he was gonna be coming and the way he was going, he was angling away from me further than I wanted and it probably would have been kind of a long shot. And so multiple things are happening. In my head, I was saying to myself, pick a spot. I, I stopped looking at his antlers completely. I was only looking at his body and I was just saying, pick a spot, pick a spot, pick a spot. Sounds corny. You might not think I actually did that, but I was saying that cuz I just, coming off of my week, I did not want to blow it.

• 1:04:24Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:04:25Speaker 01

  So I was trying to convince myself of that. This bull's angling away, probably gonna be a difficult quartering away shot at maybe fifty yards. It could be a little further depending on how long it took him to get quartering away from me.

• 1:04:41Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:41Speaker 01

  And Cord is noticing all this from atop the hill and he's laying on his, he's like laying on his side completely down. And he rolls to his left, bugle tube on the ground and lets off just a tiny little bugle towards me. And the bull is going at an angle and just completely turns, perfect, going back towards me. And it was like, super clutch.

• 1:05:13Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:14Speaker 01

  This bull walks up, goes straight to that sapling and just starts destroying the sapling. Just like a, an act of dominance.

• 1:05:24Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:24Speaker 01

  Uh, cause I don't think he cared what made that bugle. He was just gonna be like.

• 1:05:28Cameron Hanes?

  Bull on the mountain.

• 1:05:29Speaker 01

  He was just gonna be like, you're gonna bugle, watch this shit.

• 1:05:32Cameron Hanes?

  I'm gonna put on a show.

• 1:05:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. So he just starts tearing up this sapling.

• 1:05:36Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:37Speaker 01

  Quartering away from me, this, I told you the sapling was 18 yards.

• 1:05:43Speaker 01

  I had a lot going through my head, so I never touched my dial again. So that was still at 25.

• 1:05:48Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:49Speaker 01

  And I shot and uh, it hit a, it hit high, but I could see, I mean, there was, it was gonna be a fatal shot.

• 1:05:58Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:59Speaker 01

  And uh, I was like full, I was fully wild at that point. Like I was, I told you, I was full Comanche.

• 1:06:11Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:11Speaker 01

  And nothing was gonna get away from me. So I seized every opportunity. I wanted to be as aggressive as possible. So I had an opportunity and I shot him again and he went a hundred yards and I watched him. I watched him expire and then uh, I mean, it, it all happened so fast. And I just like looked back up the hill at cord and we were just kind of looking at each other. And it was like, I, I, I, I'm pretty sure I had tears in my eyes then, like it was, it was unreal.

• 1:06:55Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:55Speaker 01

  Like it was truly unreal that that had just happened on that day with cord there. And uh, I mean, it's something that I, I literally, I'll never forget it.

• 1:07:05Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:06Speaker 01

  And I think will change. It feels like it'll change the trajectory of my life. Like

• 1:07:12Speaker 01

  it, it's hard to talk about, cause I can't even really describe it.

• 1:07:17Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:18Speaker 01

  But yeah, that was.

• 1:07:22Cameron Hanes?

  I can't, I think the only people who are, understand that feeling are people who have been in a situation like that, in the wilderness for that long, with the ups and downs of a, of a bow hunt. And then to kill a giant bull like that with one of your best friends.

• 1:07:42Cameron Hanes?

  Unless you've been there, it's gonna be really hard. But if you have been there, you know how powerful that is. You know how much that means. And so I can see you, I can see this, you explain this situation so well, I can see it in my, in my mind's eye. And it does, it, that, I told you that bull that you killed, the seven by seven giant, biggest bull I've ever seen in that wilderness, it reminds me of when I killed that big mule deer buck with all the guys, there's pictures of it over here with Wayne and Roy and Dwayne and Jeff. And it did change everything because then it was like, I wrote about that, I wrote the story.

• 1:08:23Cameron Hanes?

  This is like some premier animal, you know, third year bow hunting and didn't deserve it, but it happened. It's like, it did change the trajectory. That was like my signature kill right out of the gate. And that's what this reminds me of for you. So who knows where it leads? But right now, it's a big deal. And right then, it was a big deal. I can't imagine how you felt.

• 1:08:51Speaker 01

  No, and like the, I mean, you know me, so, and you know my personality, like, I'm not, I'm not here talking about it because I think I'm a good hunter or like I'm an elk guy now, like,

• 1:09:09Speaker 01

  it was amazing. I do think a lot of it was luck. A lot of it, Court is a way better elk hunter than me. Like he, and I couldn't have done it without him. I literally couldn't have done it. He did a lot of stuff. It's really nice having another guy there with you to bounce ideas off of. Because you're like, should we do this? And like, no, well, what about this? And so having him there was really nice. He's really good with a bugle tube. He saved my ass in that situation. Yeah. So, I mean, if he wasn't there, I would have no kill. Secondly, I, people might think it's weird, but I still, at nighttime, I, I watch a lot of YouTube.

• 1:09:53Speaker 01

  I like watching hunting videos, but I like watching the old ones with you and Roy and, you know, Pioneer Peak and, but anyways, last night, I watched the tribute, the Tenzing one, the moose hunt. That's like, one of my favorite ones. I think the video is done really well, but in that video, you, you were socked in and you couldn't glass and it just stuck out in my mind. You said, "I've killed a lot of animals and it's not because I'm a good hunter. It's because I'm stubborn and I will go out even if the conditions are bad."

• 1:10:35Speaker 01

  And I felt like I could, like, connect with that.

• 1:10:41Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 1:10:42Speaker 01

  Because I was just gonna be out there and, I mean, you get lucky if you're out there.

• 1:10:48Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, you never know.

• 1:10:49Speaker 01

  Which is, which is cool, just like, if you just don't stop, it could happen. You don't know, like, it could happen and it happened for me. Like, I got lucky and I see, the only thing that I didn't, that wasn't luck is like, I just kinda, I guess I kept my shit together a little bit and I was able to kill him.

• 1:11:10Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 1:11:11Speaker 01

  Which is cool, but that bull walking up, as big as he is, you can't convince me it isn't a little bit of luck, but I don't really give a shit, like, I'll take it.

• 1:11:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:23Speaker 01

  I'll take, it's not like I, it's not like it was easy.

• 1:11:27Cameron Hanes?

  No.

• 1:11:27Speaker 01

  Like, I did, I did work, the whole, if you put the whole week together, I did work really hard for that bull. That situation specifically, I think there was a little bit of luck. I think there was a lot of experience with cord.

• 1:11:42Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:42Speaker 01

  And I was able to kinda seize it and, yeah, I don't know. I'm just really, really grateful and happy for it and, yeah.

• 1:11:56Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 1:11:57Cameron Hanes?

  Seems kind of surreal. I mean, I know when you said that picture, like I said, it was, I was just like blown away. So it does seem, seem real, or I mean surreal, uh, but. Ah, yeah, I mean, there's times, so you, you say you got lucky, which I don't know, I don't know what luck means back there because there's times when I've shot at animals where I did everything right, everything perfect. And something just goes wrong. Was that bad luck? Or is that just? What happens? Does that just? Life in the wilderness. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it's good, you could call it good luck, you could call it bad luck.

• 1:12:43Cameron Hanes?

  But I've blown it where I did everything perfect in either a limb or a, who knows what? The wind swirls. Is that bad luck? That just happens. Shit happens. You're 20 yards from an animal, the wind swirls. Before you can pull back, they're gone. Bad luck or just bow hunting? So. I totally get what you're saying and I love how you deflect and I love how you, uh. It's important for us to give our hunting partners credit because it is, a hunt in the wilderness is a team. So I do, I understand what you're doing and I love it and I respect it.

• 1:13:24Cameron Hanes?

  And it's, it's great to give credit to others. Um, and yeah, good luck, bad luck. I don't know. You guys killed four bulls, you killed a giant, everybody, you know, did what they had to do and it's just incredible. And it's, uh. You know. You've had some history in that wilderness. I, I held you back there when, were you seven?

• 1:13:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, first, first time.

• 1:13:49Cameron Hanes?

  So it's, uh, it's amazing to think about those, I still remember. We're sitting on a log by the fire there, down kind of by a bunch of mosquitoes down in the bottom of that meadow. And, uh, you were kind of sunburnt, pretty miserable, pretty little. And I just remember that and now to think of. Now, and you know, how much you've changed and like the total bookends from that experience to where you are now. And it's like, it's just cool to think of.

• 1:14:22Speaker 01

  I cried for my mom.

• 1:14:24Cameron Hanes?

  What, on this trip?

• 1:14:26Speaker 01

  No, on that seven year old trip.

• 1:14:29Cameron Hanes?

  I'm just kidding. Yeah, I remember. I think you said that you were, when was, was that at night? Or is it following me?

• 1:14:36Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, it was following you. There was, there was elk right next to us and I was crying. Like, I don't think people realize a seven year old back there.

• 1:14:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:46Speaker 01

  God, that was brutal.

• 1:14:47Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:48Speaker 01

  I had a pack.

• 1:14:49Cameron Hanes?

  12 miles back.

• 1:14:50Speaker 01

  I actually had gear in my pack. It's not like I had a toy pack on. I was actually had survival stuff as a seven year old.

• 1:14:59Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:00Speaker 01

  But I don't know. It kind of all comes full circle. You learn experiences and.

• 1:15:07Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:10Speaker 01

  I, I just want to say another thing too, like, we're on the side of that mountain and having cord there to help take care of that bull was like so great. And then we took a load down and

• 1:15:28Speaker 01

  my pack was up, I had like a day pack on, so I couldn't even hardly haul meat. I just put a ham over my shoulder. But I was like, I gotta go back to camp and get my good pack. The one I had been using all week is the actual one with the pack frame. And we went back, told Garrett what had happened. He had already taken his creek bath and told him what happened and he immediately grabbed his pants and boots and pack and walked all the way back up there with us and he hauled the shoulder out and, and he didn't have to do that.

• 1:15:59Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:00Speaker 01

  And there was no if, ands, or buts. He was ready to go. He had, he had hunted all week too.

• 1:16:05Cameron Hanes?

  Uh huh.

• 1:16:05Speaker 01

  So he went and helped cord haul more meat than I did. So it's not even his bull. He had two heavy loads go out of there. And then, uh, we got it taken care of. I carried the head and hide, which was an ordeal.

• 1:16:21Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:21Speaker 01

  And then, uh, got it down there and hung. And then those guys packed it out the next day. I mean, we were leaving.

• 1:16:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:28Speaker 01

  So we packed everything out. But I mean, those guys had a rodeo too, getting that stuff out. I mean, it's a lot of meat.

• 1:16:35Cameron Hanes?

  Cause you walked, right?

• 1:16:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I walked, I walked out and uh, that's just another, another thing that I couldn't have done without those guys.

• 1:16:43Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:43Speaker 01

  They fricking.

• 1:16:44Cameron Hanes?

  Pack that bull out.

• 1:16:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, and absolute giant rainstorm on the way out and Garrett on the, at the trailhead when they finally got out of there. I beat him by like three hours because dealing with that meat was so.

• 1:16:57Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:58Speaker 01

  So hard, but they got out and Garrett was literally the exact same personality, absolutely soaking wet. The exact same personality like he was just at, I don't even know.

• 1:17:13Cameron Hanes?

  Pizza?

• 1:17:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, at pizza.

• 1:17:16Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that's, that's, that's a special group of people. I mean.

• 1:17:20Speaker 01

  I was telling Court, I was like, Garrett is tough as shit.

• 1:17:24Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:25Speaker 01

  It's like he, he loved it.

• 1:17:26Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:27Speaker 01

  He absolutely loved the wilderness and being on horseback or on muleback.

• 1:17:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:32Speaker 01

  I don't know, just really, really thankful for those guys and they helped me out a lot in all aspects.

• 1:17:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I've always said like in the wilderness back there, you're either gonna love it or you're gonna hate it. And those guys love it.

• 1:17:47Cameron Hanes?

  And if you hate it, that's very evident too, but it's very evident that they love it. They're hard workers, tough kids. Tough young men, I mean, not kids, I'm, I'm old, so I can say kids, but tough young men. And uh, yeah, they just love it and you can't simulate that. You can't pretend that you can't, if you don't love it. You can look at somebody and be like, they're never coming back, but Garrett, uh, Brody, Cord, they love it. They're back. Every year killing, I mean, now Cord's killed what, three bulls back there?

• 1:18:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:25Cameron Hanes?

  Pretty impressive.

• 1:18:26Speaker 01

  He was like, uh, we want to get all those bulls out there and all hold our racks and take pictures of this, this one year. And I was like, that'd be really cool.

• 1:18:34Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, that'd be sick dude. It's so amazing to go four for four with, with archery. I mean, success rates with, again, people who don't know, you don't know, but it's about six percent. Six percent of hunters kill a bull every year with, with a bow. And you guys went 100%. Crazy.

• 1:18:57Speaker 01

  That is one thing I told myself I was gonna mention this is uh.

• 1:19:02Speaker 01

  Some guys aren't as lucky to, I I'm not gonna say that I couldn't have done this without my wife cuz I I think I could, but having having an old lady that

• 1:19:14Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:15Speaker 01

  Uh, wants you to chase passions and is okay with you being gone and is supportive is is a lot. And it I do appreciate Candace for doing that. She uh. She wanted me to achieve my goal and was totally okay with me being gone for weeks. So, I mean, that was cool. I didn't have to worry about that. Like, I gotta get home, like.

• 1:19:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that does weigh on on guys back there, which as you attested, you got plenty weighing on you already. So if you have issues at home. Dude, it's gonna be impossible back there.

• 1:19:50Speaker 01

  And we have a little baby too. And so she was doing that stuff on her own. So, thank you.

• 1:19:57Cameron Hanes?

  She's a hard worker. I mean, she's like cooking sourdough shit, bringing stuff over here all the time.

• 1:20:02Speaker 01

  No, she's a grinder.

• 1:20:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, she works her ass off. But I I she supports, you know, your dreams and that's that's huge, you know? And uh, not everybody has that. So we do have to feel lucky.

• 1:20:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, very lucky.

• 1:20:17Cameron Hanes?

  You can't, you can't be successful. I mean, you could, again theoretically, just like I talked about, like, you could pack out a bull by yourself and eighty miles you could, but man, it makes a lot nicer when you you have support at home, when you have friends that can help, got pack animals at all. It's nothing's impossible, but man, makes it a lot nicer when it works out and you got support.

• 1:20:39Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:20:40Cameron Hanes?

  But uh, um, that is a hell of a first wilderness bow hunt. I'll tell you that. But how did that, tell me how that, so then we kind of bookended a little bit with my wilderness hunt that I just did and I'm going to do a recap on that. But one thing that I, that I'm very thankful of is you were able to go with me on this wilderness hunt and not just be there with me, which of course, as a father is very powerful to have my son there. But the, the guys

• 1:21:20Cameron Hanes?

  that came in that helped us, tell me how that type of, those type of people, they sound like kind of similar to Cord and Garrett and Brody, but what is that, how do you look at other guys like that? Like the guys who came in to help me pack out my bull on my wilderness hunt, Cal, Eric Vander, I always Vander Zandon, uh, let's see, Keith and Ryan. Yeah. Tell me about them.

• 1:21:53Speaker 01

  Oh, I mean, they're just tough dudes.

• 1:21:56Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Cal Halliday was, I didn't say his last name, but yeah, just great guys.

• 1:22:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. You can, I don't know, you killed that bull and literally could not be any lower of elevation.

• 1:22:10Cameron Hanes?

  It was a hole.

• 1:22:11Speaker 01

  And, uh, you know, it's a daunting task to get a bull like that out of there. He's friggin' huge. His body was huge. Yeah. And there's only four of us, but those guys came on the drop of a hat.

• 1:22:26Cameron Hanes?

  So we had, just to recap, we had me, you, herd bull, Gideon. That was our four.

• 1:22:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:36Cameron Hanes?

  Which theoretically, yes, we could have got the bull out, but Cal did tell me when I went in there for opening weekend, he's like, hey, he goes, if you kill a bull, he goes, I could have four guys there in five hours. He goes, well, we'd love to help you. So this was a few weeks ago, he said this, and I was like down at the bottom, we got that bull killed at the very, very bottom, thickest like mess ever, but the bull's dead and where he's dead is where he's dead. But, um, I said, hey, we had a packer that could conceivably come in or could call Cal. So Wayne said, what do you want to do? And I'm like, I'd rather have a bunch of cool guys come in here, badasses,

• 1:23:20Cameron Hanes?

  and as a team get this out of here. So let's, let's give Cal a call. So Wayne was trying to figure out his in reach, got a text out to Cal, and by this time it's nine or 10 at night, by the time we got this bull done. So nine or 10 at night, and you know, Wayne says, Cam, kill the bull. Can you guys come in? Gave him a, I think a pin drops when you send that text with the in reach. So they knew where we were. And Cal says, yeah, we'll be there at eight in the morning. And to get there at eight in the morning meant they had to get up, I think at 3:15, 3, 3:30, something like that. Cause they're, you know, enterprise, they're a ways away. And they said they'd be there at eight in the morning. This is miles into the wilderness.

• 1:24:05Cameron Hanes?

  And a long way from where they live. At before eight, you could hear voices. And we're just like, holy shit. How are these kids here? And they show up at 8:01. In the middle of nowhere. It's like, and just busted out of the brush. And it's like, and I think you mentioned this, but these are the guys who you want to see busting out of the brush. Cause you look at them and you're like, we got some fucking studs on the scene now. But pretty sick, wasn't it?

• 1:24:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, you just, you're like, oh, these guys can pack.

• 1:24:41Cameron Hanes?

  We're good to go.

• 1:24:42Speaker 01

  Can packs in me. They just got like the mountain build.

• 1:24:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:45Speaker 01

  You know, just pretty ripped dudes.

• 1:24:48Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Good, good attitudes.

• 1:24:51Speaker 01

  I mean, they came down the hill, hooping and hollering.

• 1:24:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. They're like, we got a, we have an eight o'clock meeting. I think.

• 1:24:58Speaker 01

  Appointment.

• 1:25:02Speaker 01

  Absolute game changer having those guys.

• 1:25:06Cameron Hanes?

  And, and what I said too is like, as good a mood as they were in, even getting up at three in the morning, whenever it was, all those miles to get in there, took them an hour and a half is like, in a straight downhill, like thousands of feet down. But the attitude they showed up with, we had to pack that bull miles and thousands of feet out of there and hung out all day, took care of this meat, broke down Wayne's camp. So if you went from the first time we saw him at 8 a.m. till the last time, which is close to 8 p.m. probably, their attitude never changed. But during that time, carrying hundreds of pounds of meat, thousands of feet up and miles out, attitude exactly the

• 1:25:49Cameron Hanes?

  same, just as positive, hooping, having just as much fun every fucking second of that process. That is rare.

• 1:25:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, you could tell they they live for it. Like it's

• 1:26:02Cameron Hanes?

  It's all they care about.

• 1:26:03Speaker 01

  The, I mean, the mountains and hunting and elk and big horns is their life.

• 1:26:09Cameron Hanes?

  It's it's it scores in this bull and glassing from this place and packing in this place and 200 days in Eric's like out in the out in the field, 200 days a year. It's like these guys.

• 1:26:22Speaker 01

  It's also nice having him because I'm the kind of guy who has a pack and deals with stuff being really shitty on the pack, like just uncomfortable.

• 1:26:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:31Speaker 01

  I'm like, oh, that's how the pack is. It's just an uncomfortable pack.

• 1:26:35Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:35Speaker 01

  But Eric was taking off male and female ends and changing them and made your pack actually pretty legit.

• 1:26:43Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:44Speaker 01

  And I was like, well, I've never even thought about that.

• 1:26:46Cameron Hanes?

  No, I've never changed buckles.

• 1:26:47Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:26:48Cameron Hanes?

  I'm just like you. I'm just like, whatever. I don't give a, I'll just make it work. But it sure is nice having it, you know, because the I had the hours, they were kind of leaning to the right, to the right. They kept and something was up with the pack, but he Eric was obsessed with like, oh, God, this is driving me crazy because the hours kept leaning to the right a little bit. But, uh,

• 1:27:10Speaker 01

  I mean, all that is just a testament to how much he has packed.

• 1:27:14Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:15Speaker 01

  Like, you don't just get good at that stuff.

• 1:27:17Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:27:18Speaker 01

  A couple of times, like the guy has packed a lot of meat.

• 1:27:21Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:22Speaker 01

  And that's who you want.

• 1:27:24Cameron Hanes?

  Well, and even we show up there and by this time I was fucking tired. I mean, breaking down that bull, I got up, got up in the morning and I took some more meat off. Um,

• 1:27:35Speaker 01

  You didn't want to be asleep when they showed up.

• 1:27:37Cameron Hanes?

  No, I wasn't going to be asleep at eight. So got up, but I had to get, there's some more meat I wanted to get off there because I just remembered there's a little bit of neck meat. There's a couple of ribs I hadn't taken out. And so I wanted to get that cleaned up. I wanted to clean up the skull, but I was like, pretty much, okay, I'm done. I, yes, I could do more. Um, Wayne boned out the, the hindquarters. Did we, we didn't bone out the front shoulder, shoulders, which I was just like, kind of tapped out. I'm like, we're just gonna get this out of here. I, I'm, I'm done with working on this thing. But those guys came in fresh and they're like, Cal's, you know, they said, hey, do you want Cal to, to take the bones out of the front shoulder? He's like really fast at it or whatever. And I'm

• 1:28:19Cameron Hanes?

  like, go ahead, you know? And then Keith, I think, said, hey, do you mind if I take this bottom jaw off the skull? And I'm like, why, his knife kept, you know, it's one of those fucking replaceable blades. So I ended up getting my, uh, elk scanner out to get that bottom, finish getting the bottom jaw off. But point is, is those guys were still down to like, hey, let's do this right, you know, even though I always kind of tapped out. They're like, we can make this easier. And that's just kind of what they do because to do as much as they do back there and take clients out and do all this, they're just so used to that. It's like, no, we're gonna, this is how we do it. This is the standard. And they have a standard. They're young men, badasses that have a very, very high

• 1:29:04Cameron Hanes?

  standard. And, uh, I just love to see it. It's, uh, it's, I remember Cal, back from the iFish days on, this is old forum, people would talk shit about me back, you know, they have forever, but he would always have my back 20 years ago. And, uh, then to see them like now be such capable, they're family men now, they got kids, they're just hardcore badasses. But to just know of them for so long and then to see them in action and see how capable and what, how tough they are. And then, and you too, and then, you know, with James and then we got the herd bull, we had

• 1:29:44Cameron Hanes?

  generations of people that love the mountains and are studs. And it just was incredible. I just loved it. Loved every minute of it.

• 1:29:59Speaker 01

  I mean, I've said it a hundred times that I'm not a podcaster or camera guy. I had thought about it a lot and I do think documentation is important. I mean, it's the reason why I want to do this stuff is because I read old stuff and I watch old videos. And I think it's important to hold on to these memories, whether spoken or written, or the photos captured, like I do want to do my part and I don't want to forget for myself. Like I want to keep this stuff alive.

• 1:30:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I did, for my hunt, I did write an article about it too. Uh, I don't know if it'll go anywhere, but it's just, just for myself and memories and it's just important.

• 1:30:53Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, we're sharing it.

• 1:30:54Speaker 01

  And this year, and this year alone, 2025, it was really special for me with that, with my bull and then you drawing winna ha and me being able to go and you killing that bull and me being there for it. It was like, I don't, I don't know if I'll ever top it, but I, I am okay talking about it.

• 1:31:16Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:16Speaker 01

  You know, it's, it was a, I mean, it was an insane year. It was really special.

• 1:31:23Cameron Hanes?

  Pretty crazy that, I mean, yeah, we were able to, you know, to kill two great bulls with archery equipment. I mean, it's got to feel really lucky. Um, to your point on the, uh, on the documenting it. Um, it's no difference. I, I kind of been struggling with the, God, I got shit in my throat. But, uh, we got, you know, we get criticized a little bit these days. Some people are just retarded and, um, don't want people to share, you know, their hunting experiences with the general public, but it's so important to do it, to celebrate what we do and to celebrate the moments that we've just described.

• 1:32:07Cameron Hanes?

  Because if we don't talk about it. Who know, who would ever learn, or you know, you, you said yourself, you've been learning from these videos and reading and all these things. And that's, that's what happens. So you, back in a million years ago, guys would, would draw on the cave, the hunt, right? Then when I came up, it was magazines and books, and then it got into YouTube, and then it got into different things on outdoor channel, or maybe outdoor channel, then YouTube. But the point is, we've always shared, men have always shared their adventures, right? That's just what we do. This is, oh, we're gonna cross the ocean and discover new lands. Oh, we're gonna go hunt here, but we're gonna, we're gonna talk about it, we're gonna share it. So that's all we're doing.

• 1:32:53Cameron Hanes?

  We have the phones now, we, we have, you know, incredible photographers like James out there capturing these moments. But we're still documenting it, we're still sharing it, we're still, yeah, we might have a little video because the phones are capable of it. So we got different content, but it's no different than thousands of years ago, sharing it. It's just a different media and, or a different way to share it, but it's still just as important. Because those stories around the campfire, that's what we're doing right now. Is this, is this a campfire? Is this a campfire? Yeah, essentially. And we're sharing what happened. It's no different than what we've always done, but we have to do it to keep this alive.

• 1:33:32Cameron Hanes?

  Otherwise, people quit talking about it, they forget. It's just like, hey, did, remember that one guy who used to hunt? You ever hear anything, whatever happened to, you know, does, do people still hunt? Don't know, never hear about it. Well, we're gonna talk about it. So, um, I love that. Yeah, I know you haven't been like the big, share everything, but I'm so thankful that you wanted to talk about or were willing, not, didn't want to, you weren't begging me, but you're willing to talk about it. And I love how you, you know, uh, gave credit to all the guys and they deserve it. But, uh, I just love that you talked about it and you could share.

• 1:34:13Cameron Hanes?

  I think people will really, um, appreciate you, your honesty and you, um,

• 1:34:20Cameron Hanes?

  I'm not gonna say vulnerable, I hate that word these days, but you're just like very real about how you felt. And when you felt like you failed, you're real about describing that. When you felt you succeeded, you're real about describing it. And mostly it's like to give other people credit. But point is, is like you're talking about it. And I'm very thankful for that. And people need to hear this. Because they want to hear, they've seen you guys grow up your whole life. They haven't heard from you like they have Truitt, you know, so I'm very, you know, Truitt has his own thing he's doing, he's kicking ass, but to share this with you, and to have you, you know, the fact is, and like you, you wouldn't

• 1:35:05Cameron Hanes?

  mention it, and, and nobody might not know, but you had probably 120 pounds coming out of that hole, and you never said it, never said one thing about it. People do that stuff, but they make sure everybody knows they got a lot of weight. You never, never mentioned it. So like, what I've, what I saw from you in the wilderness and in the mountains was somebody at home, somebody at home with hard work, never got rattled, never was out of sorts in any way, and that's what it takes. So you, you know, that, that bull is incredible, but what I saw mostly was somebody who loves the mountains. And yeah, we bow hunt, that's what we do. We kill things if we can, you know, to, to get the meat, and that's just

• 1:35:50Cameron Hanes?

  how it works. But before all that, you have to be okay, suffering, being out there, being uncomfortable, and you are. And that's, that's what I saw. That's what I loved about it.

• 1:36:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I'm sure, I'm sure a lot of guys that, that did stuff in the, in the army kind of struggle with it, but you get, that's kind of your personality for so long. Well, you don't need, you don't need a personality, because like you're

• 1:36:20Cameron Hanes?

  They give you one.

• 1:36:21Speaker 01

  Your job or your title is, like, which is fine, and it was fine at that point in my life, but you get out, and you don't have that title anymore, and you kind of look, you search for something to, to fill it. And it can, it can be hard, like it.

• 1:36:39Speaker 01

  I mean, I'm not gonna say like I haven't had my, my struggles because I have and uh.

• 1:36:45Cameron Hanes?

  What do you mean out of the army or in the army or what?

• 1:36:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, both.

• 1:36:49Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:49Speaker 01

  Both, but you're just always kind of looking for something to fill the place of that because that was honestly a really big time in my life. And it's some of the toughest guys I've ever met and uh, you know, it's kind of hard to move past something that big.

• 1:37:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:04Speaker 01

  You just kind of think about it constantly and uh, you know, guys don't call you that anymore or it's not, it's just not you anymore, which can be kind of a tough pill to swallow, but the, this wilderness hunting and the mountains

• 1:37:24Speaker 01

  feel similar.

• 1:37:26Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 1:37:26Speaker 01

  And it's kind of filled, I don't know, it's kind of filled that spot. And I just, I can't stop thinking about it.

• 1:37:35Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:36Speaker 01

  You know, it's.

• 1:37:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I get what you're saying. Like when in the army, it's all about, you know, the guy next to you. And then, you know, and they kind of, they kind of

• 1:37:50Cameron Hanes?

  uh, belabor that point like, hey, you gotta die for this guy. This guy would die for you. This is, you're, you're together, right? This is all part of how it works. And then you get out and you're by yourself. And so it's like having that, where's the connection with your brother or your, what some other badass, because now you're just like out on your own and it's really hard to find because it's like, it's really easy to respect badass men. But in regular life, they're not everywhere. In the wilderness, yeah, you found some more. And I think that's a, men just want to have guys they respect. They don't want to, they want to, they want to be around people

• 1:38:34Cameron Hanes?

  they have a connection with like that. So whether it was military or now it's wilderness mountain hunting, there's that connection with badasses. And it's just like, I think men need, some men need that. Some men need other shit. I don't know what they need, but

• 1:38:48Cameron Hanes?

  it's a big deal.

• 1:38:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:50Cameron Hanes?

  It's a big deal and I'm, you know, I don't know. I think people, yeah, they've wanted to hear your perspective on a lot of stuff for many years, but uh, yeah. I don't know. Well, I'm super, super appreciative for this discussion.

• 1:39:11Cameron Hanes?

  Gideon, do you have any questions over here?

• 1:39:15Speaker 02

  I do have some questions.

• 1:39:16Cameron Hanes?

  Uh oh.

• 1:39:17Speaker 02

  I want to share a quote from Dwight Schrute, who's a, obviously, an outdoor writer, and he kind of talked about luck, too. Luck is not something you hope for in hunting. It is something you earn through long days, quiet steps, and respect for the land and animal. You feel like that kind of wraps up how you feel about this luck that you talk about?

• 1:39:39Speaker 01

  I mean, that's written way more poetically, but yeah, I mean, I'm not, I don't discredit myself as far as hard work. Cause, cause I do know, I told you about it, like I, I know I worked hard.

• 1:39:54Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:39:55Speaker 01

  I think the animal that emerged from the timber, that could be luck, because he was big.

• 1:40:04Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:05Speaker 01

  But I mean, getting there to that point, I don't know. I don't know if, I don't know if you get kind of rewarded, if the mountains reward you.

• 1:40:15Cameron Hanes?

  Universe kind of rewards hard work sometimes. I mean, it's a, I always think that the more, the, well, and it's like a famous saying, but the harder you, harder you work, the luckier you get. And it's just, I think the universe does reward hard work and being positive.

• 1:40:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I was curious, like, what, what do you think prepared you the most for the wilderness? Do you think it was the army? Or do you think it was how you grew up? What, what, what prepared you? Cause most people don't have that type of success in the wilderness their first year, not even just on your killing, but like, you on my hunt and just being so at home in that type of suffering. So what, why are you so successful?

• 1:41:01Speaker 01

  Um, well, I mean, I kind of mentioned it to Wayne and I was like, all those guys that I worked with uh, in the army, I was like, would be totally fine out here.

• 1:41:12Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:41:13Speaker 01

  Which I mean, balls deep in the wilderness. With the bivvy sack and mountain houses. Like those, a- all those guys would be totally fine.

• 1:41:23Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:41:24Speaker 01

  I'm not saying they, they would kill bulls because that's like knowledge and skillset.

• 1:41:28Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:29Speaker 01

  But as far as living.

• 1:41:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, surviving.

• 1:41:31Speaker 01

  They'd be totally fine.

• 1:41:32Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:33Speaker 01

  Just because they're comfortable being uncomfortable.

• 1:41:35Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:41:36Speaker 01

  Like it, like I said, that's like a, if you're not worried about that, then you can think about other stuff.

• 1:41:43Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:43Speaker 01

  So, I mean, I think that helped me a lot.

• 1:41:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I would agree with that.

• 1:41:48Speaker 02

  Uh, speaking of mountain houses.

• 1:41:52Speaker 02

  Mary kill, chicken Alfredo, biscuits and gravy and chicken pesto.

• 1:41:59Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm, but it's peak, not mountain house, but yeah.

• 1:42:02Speaker 01

  Uh, well, I'm gonna kill pesto.

• 1:42:05Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that.

• 1:42:06Speaker 01

  Gonna kill pesto. Uh, I'm probably gonna make sweet to Alfredo. And I'll marry biscuits and gravy.

• 1:42:18Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that chicken Alfredo, I could eat that every day back there.

• 1:42:22Speaker 01

  Oh, we ate it cold.

• 1:42:25Cameron Hanes?

  We did, but we're so.

• 1:42:27Speaker 01

  I was so hungry.

• 1:42:28Cameron Hanes?

  So hungry. I mean, you don't even need to heat those things up. It was still good. It was still crunchy. We didn't even wait. Just put a little water in there and.

• 1:42:36Speaker 01

  No, it was like clumps of sand for chicken. I, I'd do it again.

• 1:42:41Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, it was good.

• 1:42:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:43Cameron Hanes?

  We split that one after I passed up that, that bowl when you were filming and, uh, um, yeah, it was great. Cold, crunchy. Yeah, whatever, a peak. Uh, but chicken Alfredo is definitely the one. You got anything else?

• 1:43:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, last question. Uh, so last night we were recording Chit Talkers Weekly that we're gonna have to redo. But you were talking about, um,

• 1:43:11Speaker 02

  I don't know, it seemed like you got a little emotional thinking about your son, who had success and found this calling. Tanner, you talked about it after the army, but found the success in a place you really cut your teeth. So as a family, from generation to generation, how does that make you feel? And more specifically, kind of about this legacy that you're leaving in your son, who has now found the same success in the same place?

• 1:43:42Cameron Hanes?

  Ah, God, I can't even put it into words. You know, it's what any father wants, is for their son to care about the same things they care about.

• 1:43:53Cameron Hanes?

  As far as the wilderness goes, specifically, after you hit that one in the shoulder blade, I was like,

• 1:44:03Cameron Hanes?

  I even said it here, I'm like, I just want,

• 1:44:08Cameron Hanes?

  there's so much pressure, not only to perform back there, to survive back there, to do everything, but then even, because I've written books about it, and even, you know, this is what I do. And I was just like, it was so hard, that failure. I just was like, please, I don't want it to end with that. I don't want that to be your trip, right? Because it's, I just know how mentally daunting it can be back there. And then when you get out, there's only,

• 1:44:42Cameron Hanes?

  there's two answers to the question. Did you kill? Yes or no? And no? It doesn't matter why. It doesn't matter what happened. It's just no. No, I didn't. And that hurts. And I just, I just did not want you to have to like, deal with, you know, busting your ass for that long, having an opportunity, not being able to cash in on it, and then that's it. And then to come back and be like,

• 1:45:15Cameron Hanes?

  I had a chance and I blew it and have to live with that. So I was so thankful that it turned out, it could have been, is like, we couldn't even dream, we couldn't dream that it was gonna turn out as well as it did with, with four bowls on the seven by seven and all that and, and couldn't even dream, that wouldn't even be a realistic dream, but I'm so thankful it worked out because just like I, I didn't deserve that buck up there, but I got it and it changed everything. So, right now, the game is like, all the cards on the table, who knows what's gonna happen? Because you, you know, you, you got that bull killed, you got on the ground, you overcame

• 1:45:57Cameron Hanes?

  the failure, you entered on success, we had another great wilderness hunt. So now, it's like, it's all gravy, it's all good. But it was, as a dad, being out of state, not being there, hearing like, the ups and downs, it was, it was hard. It was hard for me, because all I want, all any dad wants is for their kids to succeed. And it's not like you're a little kid, it's like, but nothing changes. I wanted you to succeed when you were fucking seven years old playing basketball, and I want you to succeed now. So to see that as a father, it just means everything. And then to have it be something, you know, this isn't like winning fucking Pinewood Derby

• 1:46:37Cameron Hanes?

  as a Cub Scout, this is a big deal. And to have it be so worthwhile, I mean, I've been proud of you for a lot of things you've done, but this is just the latest in it. It's, it's incredible. I wish, if I could wish anything, it would be that every father could feel the, the pride and the, this how, you know, how proud I am of, of you. I wish, I wish everybody could know what this feels like, because it's like, it's incredible.

• 1:47:09Cameron Hanes?

  Very happy, very happy for you and very happy mostly that that you found this passion because as you said, you had in the army, but then some people go through life, they never know, they never have that thing that like, I want to have a passion, I want to, I want to care about something so much, I want to care about something that you, like they'll say to me, like, you care about bow hunting so much, I want that, I want to know what that is. So to hear you talk about the mountains and in these experiences and like how much you care about it. And that's everything because some guys never find it. And it's a big deal. It's a big deal to have something bigger than yourself.

• 1:47:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:52Cameron Hanes?

  How did that sound?

• 1:47:53Speaker 02

  Good. That's it.

• 1:47:55Cameron Hanes?

  That's it?

• 1:47:56Speaker 02

  So those are the questions.

• 1:47:57Cameron Hanes?

  How long was our podcast?

• 1:47:58Speaker 02

  Hour fifty.

• 1:48:00Cameron Hanes?

  Oh shit. Pretty good. How do you think, what do you, how do you feel about it?

• 1:48:06Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 1:48:09Cameron Hanes?

  It's live. We did that live, didn't we?

• 1:48:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:48:11Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So it's up.

• 1:48:13Speaker 01

  Delete it.

• 1:48:15Cameron Hanes?

  No. All right. Well, I mean, man, I'm a, yeah, I want to talk about Winnebago more, but we're going to do that on the recap. That was such a fun trip also. I wasn't on your wilderness trip. But thank you for doing this. Great job and keep crammer and selective.

• 1:48:41Cameron Hanes?

  Thanks, guys. Let me know what you think of the podcast. Leave a whatever review, whatever they say.

• 1:48:46Speaker 02

  Like and subscribe.

• 1:48:47Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, like and subscribe.