Pod Insights Call Her Daddy Podcast Riley Keough: Nepo babies, Addiction & Grief About this episode Join Alex in the studio for an interview with Riley Keough. Riley reflects on her unconventional childhood as Elvis’ granddaughter, discusses her famous friendships with Dakota Johnson and Zoë Kravitz, and reveals the time she secretly got arrested. She also opens up about her complicated mother daughter dynamic and experiences with commitment issues, addicts, and grief.
Transcript 11,710 words · 5 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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3:14 Alex Cooper? What is up Daddy gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy.
3:23 Alex Cooper? Riley Keo, welcome to Call Her Daddy.
3:24 Speaker 01 Thank you.
3:25 Alex Cooper? I am such a big fan. Thank you for being here.
3:28 Speaker 01 Thank you for having me.
3:29 Alex Cooper? Of course. I huge Daisy Jones and the Six girl.
3:33 Speaker 01 Oh, cool.
3:34 Alex Cooper? Like, binged the whole thing and sitting. Loved it.
3:37 Speaker 01 Thanks for watching.
3:38 Alex Cooper? My husband was like, you could take a break. I'm like, no, no, it's kind of one of those where you just gotta get, I gotta, yeah, I gotta get to the end. It was awesome. What was your favorite part of playing that role?
3:48 Speaker 01 I think getting to learn like to sing and play guitar was my favorite part because it was, I think that's one of my favorite things about acting in general is learning like a whole new skill set. And this one was like very in like,
4:03 Speaker 01 Normally you do a few rehearsals or do if you're, you know, training to do, I don't know, to be a dancer or whatever. I don't know. Like I, I've never done something so involved. Like I haven't had to fully learn to like sing and play guitar. Uh, so I, I found that really fun.
4:22 Alex Cooper? Wait, you were doing like full voice lessons?
4:24 Speaker 01 We were doing, yeah, like we had band practice every day and it was like a year long. Um, but we needed it. Like none of us, not, none of us, a few of us had never picked up an instrument and or sang.
4:40 Alex Cooper? Was there ever a point in your life that you would have considered a music career?
4:44 Speaker 01 Never.
4:45 Alex Cooper? No.
4:45 Speaker 01 Never. No, I still would never. I, I'm not a singer.
4:49 Alex Cooper? I feel like you have a good voice unless they auto tune it.
4:50 Speaker 01 It's fine. They didn't auto tune it, but I have a fine voice. I just got by, but I, I, uh, I'm a realist and I know I'm not a singer.
5:00 Alex Cooper? The fact that you're telling me they didn't edit your voice, you have a good voice.
5:04 Speaker 01 They didn't edit it, I think.
5:07 Alex Cooper? You call them, they're like, oh babe, that shit was auto tuned.
5:10 Speaker 01 I think they, I don't think they auto tuned it. I think the whole point was because it was meant to sound 1970s that you wouldn't do that.
5:17 Alex Cooper? Yeah, yeah. You sounded gorgeous. Okay.
5:19 Speaker 01 I, I, I felt proud that I was able to do it because there was like a conversation, uh, about potentially getting like vocal stunt doubles.
5:31 Alex Cooper? Oh my god.
5:32 Speaker 01 And so I felt really determined to make it work and I feel proud. We made it work, you know, I, I, I don't think I'm like the best singer in the world and I, you know, that's fine.
5:41 Alex Cooper? You made it work with flying colors.
5:42 Speaker 01 I made it work.
5:44 Alex Cooper? I love how you're like, oh, like I, no, no, no, I like never sang. From my research, you and Dakota Johnson were in a band together in New York City. Don't lie to my face.
5:54 Speaker 01 This is so funny. This comes up so often and like I think that we need to do something here because yes, we were in a band, but the band was me and her, sitting with her brother around a table in her apartment in New York with photo booth, like doing covers of songs. But here's the thing, neither of us were competent singers. So we would just kind of like all sing together.
6:17 Alex Cooper? Oh, so you were, you were all competing for like the lead role.
6:19 Speaker 01 We were all the lead vocals.
6:20 Alex Cooper? You're all the lead. Wait, what was the band called?
6:23 Speaker 01 Fokie Porn.
6:25 Alex Cooper? Fokie Porn?
6:25 Speaker 01 Perfect for Call Her Daddy.
6:26 Alex Cooper? Wait, I'm obsessed. I had a band at one point and I was like so committed.
6:31 Speaker 01 Did you really?
6:32 Alex Cooper? Yeah, but it was so bad.
6:33 Speaker 01 What did you do?
6:34 Alex Cooper? So, yeah, well, here's the thing, you know, I, I started as like the electric guitarist.
6:40 Speaker 01 Cool.
6:40 Alex Cooper? But that is like loosely saying that. The only song I could-
6:44 Speaker 01 A loose electric guitar?
6:45 Alex Cooper? Yeah.
6:46 Speaker 01 I relate. I'm a loose guitar player.
6:49 Alex Cooper? I like looked incredible holding it.
6:52 Speaker 01 Okay.
6:52 Alex Cooper? But the minute I would get going, it was, I was giving nothing.
6:56 Speaker 01 Right.
6:56 Alex Cooper? I knew how to play the like,
7:01 Alex Cooper? whatever that song is. I could do those like three little things. That was all I knew. Our band was called The Aliens.
7:08 Speaker 01 Okay.
7:08 Alex Cooper? It was a big deal. It was in my basement and then we changed it to Green Jelly.
7:13 Speaker 01 Cool. Were the other people in the band also loose musicians?
7:17 Alex Cooper? Everyone was loose.
7:18 Speaker 01 Okay.
7:19 Alex Cooper? Everyone was loose. We were kind of just there for the vibes.
7:23 Speaker 01 Yeah.
7:23 Alex Cooper? Our sign was on like printer paper with like a little marker.
7:27 Speaker 01 Right.
7:27 Alex Cooper? It was edgy. It was the thing. I actually paid my neighbors at one point, like 25 cents to come watch us perform.
7:34 Speaker 01 Wow.
7:35 Alex Cooper? They were upset that we wasted their time. So like I'm a big band girl.
7:40 Speaker 01 So Dakota and I didn't get like that far into it. We kind of like, it lasted maybe like three days.
7:46 Alex Cooper? Oh my God.
7:47 Speaker 01 And then it was over. The band broke up.
7:50 Alex Cooper? Good to know. Good to know. Wait, how do you guys know each other? Like, when did you become friends?
7:55 Speaker 01 Uh, we became friends because we both grew up in LA and just there was some kind of, I had a friend who was friends with her boyfriend and we met at like an In-N-Out parking lot. And then we went to all the same parties in, in LA at like sixteen, seventeen and I'd see her out and about. And then I became friends with her boyfriend. And then, so I went to go see his band play and she was always there and she was like the coolest girl.
8:22 Alex Cooper? The coolest.
8:23 Speaker 01 The coolest.
8:24 Alex Cooper? She still is.
8:25 Speaker 01 She is. And then we just, I don't know, became friends and.
8:28 Alex Cooper? Don't you love when like people are obsessed with like celebrity friendships? We're like, no, no, come on, tell us more. We're like, we're just friends.
8:35 Speaker 01 Hung out.
8:36 Alex Cooper? We're at In-N-Out, bitch.
8:37 Speaker 01 Sometimes we hang out and talk on the phone.
8:41 Alex Cooper? I think, cause it makes people feel like closer to you guys of like, you guys are obviously both like very cool, interesting people. And so I think to know that you guys are friends, people like, I'm like, come on, give me more tea.
8:51 Speaker 01 I can give you tea. I just don't really have any, but if there's, if there's anything you can think of, I will get, I'm a tea giver.
8:58 Alex Cooper? Okay, okay, good. You did show up today and be like, we don't have to cry.
9:02 Speaker 01 I, I, I just don't want you to feel pressure.
9:05 Alex Cooper? I don't want you to feel pressure at all. If you hate any of my questions, let me know. We can pivot.
9:12 Speaker 01 Deal.
9:12 Alex Cooper? Okay, good. Um, how do you think?
9:14 Speaker 01 Hey.
9:14 Alex Cooper? What?
9:17 Alex Cooper? I'm like, let's sit in silence. I do love that you were thirty minutes old, like early and you brought no one.
9:23 Speaker 01 Yeah.
9:24 Alex Cooper? Can I tell you, I've had people come to my studio with like a whole twenty people, ten people, five people, but the solo.
9:33 Speaker 01 Solo is a first. Um, here's my answer. I'm not like technically on like a press tour right now. So I'm not, I have, I, I have no problem going places all by myself, you know?
9:46 Alex Cooper? I love that for you.
9:47 Speaker 01 And I like, I actually enjoy it.
9:48 Alex Cooper? I am the same way. Whenever I go on a podcast, which is rare, I'm like, no one come with me. I'm gonna let it rip.
9:55 Speaker 01 Yeah.
9:55 Alex Cooper? Let God go with me.
9:56 Speaker 01 The cool thing about not having a publicist here, so I can say whatever I want.
10:00 Alex Cooper? For sure. Then she's gonna call you after and be like, what was it? You're like, I don't remember. We talked for almost an hour. Like, who knows?
10:06 Speaker 01 Exactly.
10:07 Alex Cooper? Just let it be. You know what I mean? It's fine. You're not gonna get canceled from this. Um, how would your friends describe you?
10:13 Speaker 01 Oh my gosh, that's such a hard question. I don't know. I have no idea. Like in what way? Like there's like a.
10:21 Alex Cooper? Like, how would they describe you? Like if Dakota was in the room right now, like what would she say about you? Oh, we should, we could call her also.
10:26 Speaker 01 Do you want to?
10:27 Alex Cooper? Let's call her.
10:27 Speaker 01 Hold on.
10:28 Alex Cooper? That will be fucking funny. Go get your phone.
10:31 Speaker 01 She didn't answer.
10:33 Alex Cooper? Okay, let's call another friend.
10:34 Speaker 01 Okay.
10:34 Alex Cooper? All you're asking is how would you describe me as a friend?
10:36 Speaker 01 How would you describe me?
10:37 Alex Cooper? I'm on a show. Give me a good answer.
10:39 Speaker 01 So do you want them to be famous or not?
10:41 Alex Cooper? I mean, famous is fun. Famous is more fun. They're like, I'll call John.
10:44 Speaker 01 It's so funny because people, every, I do this a lot of the, a lot, and where people will be like, how would your friends, or what friends could we speak to about you for this interview? And I give like my, all my closest friends and they're like, but what about like famous ones?
10:58 Alex Cooper? They're like, they're like, no, no, no, we don't care about Cassidy.
11:01 Speaker 01 No, no, no. We don't want, you know, yeah.
11:03 Alex Cooper? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
11:04 Speaker 01 So funny. Okay. Should I try Zoe Kravitz?
11:08 Alex Cooper? Yeah, let's give her a go.
11:09 Speaker 01 The Nepo baby phone?
11:10 Alex Cooper? I'm obsessed.
11:14 Speaker 02 Oh my God, hello.
11:15 Speaker 01 Hi, wait, you're on air.
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12:19 Alex Cooper? SoFi, get your money right. This is a paid advertisement by SoFi Technologies and is not intended to be financial advice. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by T-Mobile. Daddy gang, there are honestly so many reasons to just choose T-Mobile. They've got T-Mobile Tuesdays perks, tons of freebies, travel benefits like hotel and rental car savings. They make your phone Plan feel like it's actually giving you something back instead of just being another bill that you have to pay every single month. And if you're a student, T-Mobile has student perks plans designed specifically for you. I remember being in college and constantly literally just looking for ways to save money understandably. And so these are the kind
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13:46 Alex Cooper? You're like, I am busy, I'm hungry, I'm getting hangry, I'm getting angry. What can I eat? I need something hot and delicious and low maintenance. Well, introducing Stouffer's dinners are not only delicious, they're done in a flash. Serve up their classic lasagna, chicken pesto, or carbonara for two, whatever you're craving. Stouffer's is your hot, delicious, easy meal fantasy. When the clock strikes dinner, think Stouffer's. You can see all the delicious options at Stouffer's.com.
14:15 Speaker 02 Hello, I'm chewing, sorry.
14:18 Alex Cooper? So, what are you eating?
14:19 Speaker 01 What are you eating?
14:21 Speaker 02 I'm eating toast. I'm eating raisin toast.
14:25 Alex Cooper? So good.
14:26 Speaker 02 Lemon raisin toast with butter.
14:27 Speaker 01 Okay, so I'm on a podcast and they asked me to call a friend to describe how you would describe me.
14:32 Alex Cooper? As a friend?
14:33 Speaker 01 As a friend.
14:34 Speaker 02 As a friend? I would describe you as a ride or die. Like you are down for whatever. You will always you show up all the time. You're very consistent. Like maybe like me and you will like not talk or see each other for like six months and then it's like we just pick up where we left off.
14:53 Speaker 02 And I think you're really good at keeping secrets.
14:56 Speaker 01 Gonna tell those on this pod.
14:59 Speaker 02 You're like, actually, um, and you're incredibly loyal. And you're funny, funny as hell. And you're honest.
15:12 Speaker 01 Keep going.
15:13 Speaker 02 You always text me back.
15:15 Speaker 01 That's so cute.
15:17 Speaker 02 It's true.
15:17 Speaker 01 Think so.
15:19 Speaker 02 You're welcome.
15:20 Speaker 01 Alright, love you. Love you, bye.
15:22 Alex Cooper? Bye.
15:24 Speaker 02 One more, one more.
15:25 Speaker 01 Okay.
15:26 Speaker 02 You're you're just like, you're such a bitch. You're just like a bitch.
15:29 Speaker 01 You're a bitch? Really? You think? Really?
15:34 Speaker 02 You're the nicest person in the world.
15:35 Speaker 01 Okay.
15:37 Speaker 01 Okay, love you too.
15:41 Alex Cooper? I'm obsessed. Thank you for doing that. First of all, imagine if you're like, I'm just kidding, I'm not on a podcast. I'm just like feeling needy today. Keep going.
15:48 Speaker 01 Yeah, right.
15:48 Alex Cooper? Okay, those that feels pretty accurate.
15:51 Speaker 01 I don't know. I didn't really hear much. She said I was loyal.
15:54 Alex Cooper? She said you were loyal.
15:55 Speaker 01 I blacked out.
15:55 Alex Cooper? Really good at keeping secrets.
15:59 Alex Cooper? You're like, no, no, I am on air. Don't say anything crazy.
16:02 Speaker 01 I got nervous of what she was gonna say.
16:03 Alex Cooper? No, all of that was lovely.
16:05 Speaker 01 Okay.
16:05 Alex Cooper? And I when she said you were a bitch, I'm like, that is the completely opposite of what I'm getting. You're you are very like gentle soul.
16:12 Speaker 01 Thank you. Um, I think that I would say I would I am a loyal friend. I I do really care about my friends and, you know, I love hope. I I think.
16:25 Alex Cooper? Allegedly. Allegedly. Um, okay, let's talk about the book. It is so fascinating, like what you wrote about.
16:33 Speaker 01 Yeah.
16:33 Alex Cooper? Um, From Here to the Great Unknown. First of all, just to like tell the daddy gang, my audience, like, how did this book come to be?
16:41 Speaker 01 This book came to be because my mother was in the middle of writing her autobiography. And in December, she came to me and said,
16:56 Speaker 01 you know, I need help. Like, she couldn't, she, she didn't really, I think she just got to a point where she was feeling frustrated and, and she, she didn't like talking about herself. So writing an autobiography was difficult. And she asked if I would help her. And then she passed away a month later. So I just found myself, like, it was just this thing that I had to do. So I just completed her memoir, which was, you know, very intense.
17:24 Alex Cooper? How long did it take you?
17:26 Speaker 01 Oh, my gosh.
17:29 Speaker 01 Probably about a year. Yeah.
17:32 Alex Cooper? Wow.
17:33 Speaker 01 Start to finish.
17:34 Alex Cooper? How do you think, like, having that project to work on after your mom passed, like, helped you work through your feelings?
17:41 Speaker 01 Well, I think that when I started working on the book, it was only like three, four months after she'd passed away. So it was very, uh, like intense and I didn't really want to be doing it, to be honest. It felt like this thing I had to complete. And so I was a little bit resistant in the beginning and it's also like, it's, it's very out of my comfort zone to write
18:08 Speaker 01 a story or tell all the things, like my family's personal, all these vulnerable things about my family.
18:14 Alex Cooper? Right.
18:16 Speaker 01 It's not something that I would do otherwise, you know? So it was, there was a lot, I felt very, very resistant, but ultimately I was doing it for her and it's what she wanted. And I, I knew how much she wanted to finish her autobiography and share her story. So people could understand her more and also so she could relate to people. And she's been through so much. And I think that largely why she did this was to kind of share her experience in grief and addiction and these very human things. And so, yeah, so I would say that I. I did it, but I wasn't like really excited to do it.
18:54 Alex Cooper? No, I think like hearing you even say that is interesting when you said like, my natural reaction isn't to just like spill all family secrets. And I think just to clarify for anyone that is not like familiar with like your family lineage, like you are Elvis's granddaughter. Your mom was Elvis's only daughter. And so I get what you're saying is like, it's a very famous family that you come from. So to write basically like a big book being like, here's detail by detail what went down. Usually we don't get that from very famous families.
19:27 Speaker 01 Yes, and you know, particularly in my family, growing up and with my mom, she was extremely private. She hated talking to the press. She didn't want to be famous, like she was born into a situation she really didn't enjoy. And growing up in the, the world we grew up in was very private, very secretive, very like, everything was a security issue, like there was no talking to friends about things, like our family stuff was, you know, everything was very private. So it was a lot of, uh, I had to push through that sort of uncomfortable feeling of like,
20:09 Speaker 01 sharing all this information, but the other thing is, is like, as a person, I'm a very honest person. And I also couldn't imagine, so was she, like she was uncomfortably honest. So I think I, I couldn't have imagined a version of her book where she didn't, you know, share all these things.
20:26 Alex Cooper? Yeah, and like go all in.
20:27 Speaker 01 Yeah.
20:28 Alex Cooper? Your baby photo was sold for $300,000 on the cover of People Magazine. Like, that is insane in.
20:36 Speaker 01 What's insane is I, is like $300 then was like,
20:39 Alex Cooper? $300,000.
20:40 Speaker 01 $300,000, sorry.
20:43 Speaker 01 It was like a million, like I was close to a million dollars.
20:45 Alex Cooper? Like you're so wanted.
20:47 Speaker 01 Well, well, used to be.
20:51 Alex Cooper? Um, can you like, looking back at your childhood, obviously, growing up in this famous family, what is something that was definitely not normal that like you got pretty used to? Because you were just like, oh, I thought this was our reality.
21:04 Speaker 01 Like all of it. Yeah, you know, like if I, if I like, shared the day to day growing up, it would probably be like, you know, crazy to.
21:13 Alex Cooper? Give us a little, come on.
21:14 Speaker 01 Well, it was just a lot of like thing, like it was very like high security and like for going somewhere, it was like lots of people following us and very like intense and chaotic and like going through, you know, I don't know, like.
21:28 Alex Cooper? How are you so calm?
21:31 Speaker 01 I don't know. I'm not at all.
21:34 Alex Cooper? You're like internally, I'm burning.
21:37 Speaker 01 I'm burning down all day.
21:40 Alex Cooper? It's the external, you're keeping it all together, but internally?
21:43 Speaker 01 Yes.
21:43 Alex Cooper? Okay, good to know. How would you have described yourself as a kid?
21:47 Speaker 01 I was very quiet, um, really internal. I wasn't, uh, I, I, I got called shy a lot, but I actually wasn't shy. I just was very internal. Like I just didn't have a lot to say and, and just was, yeah, I was very quiet. I, I was like that actually, most of my life until I started to realize that people would perceive that as rude. So I really pushed myself to, to, you know, come out of my shell.
22:17 Alex Cooper? Like right now, I don't want to be talking, but I have a camera in front of me.
22:21 Speaker 01 Gotta be here.
22:22 Alex Cooper? Hi, everyone. Oh, that's so interesting. So if like you're in, if you're going through something in your life, whether it's like a fight with your partner or a friend, like, do you just go silent?
22:33 Speaker 01 No.
22:33 Alex Cooper? No.
22:34 Speaker 01 No, no, no. I'm very, I'm very emotional. I'm just not somebody like at a dinner party.
22:40 Alex Cooper? Got it.
22:40 Speaker 01 If a lot of people are talking, I prefer to listen. It's just that. It's not like I'm like internalized. I'm very, I'm very, uh, open with my emotions.
22:49 Alex Cooper? Got it, got it.
22:49 Speaker 01 I'm just not like a big chatter.
22:51 Alex Cooper? Love.
22:52 Speaker 01 Yeah.
22:52 Alex Cooper? Love. Welcome to an hour sitting down with me. Let's go, girl.
22:56 Speaker 01 I am now. I wasn't. I've grown, I've changed.
22:58 Alex Cooper? You're doing great.
22:59 Speaker 01 I don't know. I hope.
23:01 Alex Cooper? Where am I? Um, the book obviously switches between like your mom and her perspective and then yours.
23:07 Speaker 01 Yeah.
23:07 Alex Cooper? How do you think you guys were similar as teenagers?
23:11 Speaker 01 Wow. Um.
23:14 Speaker 01 I think I also had a moment of like reb- she had like her rebellious moment. I also had that like where I would sneak out and you know, hang out with people I shouldn't, wasn't allowed to and getting arrested and you know.
23:28 Alex Cooper? You got arrested?
23:29 Speaker 01 I did.
23:29 Alex Cooper? Is this mugshot bad? You're like, wait, this is why publicists are supposed to fix off.
23:34 Speaker 01 Where's my publicist?
23:35 Alex Cooper? Come in. No one's here to save you. Wait, that's kind of like.
23:39 Speaker 01 I, I was arrested once. Yeah.
23:42 Alex Cooper? Is it a good mugshot?
23:43 Speaker 01 I never saw it.
23:44 Alex Cooper? What?
23:45 Speaker 01 I know.
23:45 Alex Cooper? You need to make T-shirts.
23:46 Speaker 01 I know. I was a minor, so luckily I think it was like.
23:49 Alex Cooper? So it's like an underage?
23:50 Speaker 01 Yeah.
23:51 Alex Cooper? A lot of people that I know got those. Those were like, I was like so terrified to get one because I like needed to go play like soccer. And if you had one, you couldn't play. It was a whole thing.
24:01 Speaker 01 Right.
24:01 Alex Cooper? But like I was there.
24:03 Speaker 01 You got, you got a mugshot. You didn't get.
24:04 Alex Cooper? I didn't get a mugshot, but now in hindsight, I'm like, oh, would have been like a little edgy.
24:09 Speaker 01 So I had an edgy moment.
24:12 Alex Cooper? For just drinking?
24:13 Speaker 01 It was for.
24:14 Alex Cooper? Oh, God.
24:15 Speaker 01 I can't say this. I thought it was for breaking and entering.
24:18 Alex Cooper? Wait, what? Where?
24:20 Speaker 01 Um, so it was actually, so I went to a party at my friend's house.
24:29 Alex Cooper? Okay.
24:30 Speaker 01 But I didn't know that it wasn't my friend's house. It was a house for sale. Um, and so most people like the police came and most people like got away and then about 10 of us got arrested. My mom was pissed.
24:48 Alex Cooper? Did she try to like get it not in the papers?
24:51 Speaker 01 No, she was like, this is on you, girl.
24:56 Speaker 01 Yeah.
24:57 Alex Cooper? Oh, my God.
24:57 Speaker 01 Luckily it didn't get, it wasn't in the papers.
24:59 Alex Cooper? Was your mom someone that would punish you? Like, are you getting grounded?
25:02 Speaker 01 I was grounded. Oh, yeah. I was grounded for like three months and I was grounded on my like 16th or 15th birthday or something. Yeah.
25:10 Alex Cooper? That's tough.
25:11 Speaker 01 I was grounded and she was in Las Vegas and I had to call her and tell her to come back from Vegas and pick me up in prison. I've never told anyone this.
25:23 Alex Cooper? You're like, Mom, I'm in jail. She's like, I'm on the strip, bitch. What? No.
25:29 Speaker 01 So she, she's like, I can't get there. So she sent my aunt to come get me and uh, so you know, I had a moment. I had a mo- like a moment as a teenager and she also did.
25:41 Alex Cooper? Love.
25:41 Speaker 01 Yeah.
25:41 Alex Cooper? Love. Okay. Um, you write a lot about like the different relationships that your mom had romantically throughout your childhood. When you were five, your parents got divorced because your mom wanted to marry Michael Jackson. How was this explained to you as a kid, like that they were getting divorced?
26:00 Speaker 01 So my mom, I was like, we were in Florida and I was sitting on her lap and she said, I'm, me and your dad are getting a divorce. And I took, like, the way I received it was that he wasn't my dad anymore. Um, and it was like, it's so memorable to me because I just was destroyed. I didn't understand what a divorce was. So I just thought like, he's not my dad now. Um, but the great thing was shortly after, like, they were so close and they really cared about keeping them, you know, our family dynamic the same. So he was at our house and staying over. And so he was there a lot. So I think I kind of forgot about it, which was.
26:40 Alex Cooper? So you got to see like a very loving relationship between the two of them, even though they got divorced.
26:46 Speaker 01 Yeah, like a really unique, like it was a very unique experience, especially in the nineties, you know? To have both of your parents sort of like brother and sister really close, living together. He lived with us for a lot of my life when my mom had other partners and other. Uh husbands, um he would live in the guest house and so my, what was modeled to me was when you break up with someone, you stay friends with them. Um, and I, I really like apply that to most of my relationships because that was kind of all that I, that was what I saw with my parents. And um, it was really beautiful. I mean, they were, they were like best friends and I don't know if they should have been married.
27:31 Alex Cooper? We, when you break up with someone or they break up with you and you're staying friends with them, have any of your past relationships been like Riley? Like we broke up, why are, like, are you still trying to stay so amicable and are people ever confused by like how amicable you are?
27:48 Speaker 01 No, because I think that like it was never a forced thing. I think I just, I don't know how I did it. That there were, there was like one relationship that there was, you know, no friendship there. But for the most part, all the other ones, I don't even know. It wasn't, I wasn't like consciously thinking about it. We just ended up friends.
28:09 Alex Cooper? And it's just kind of like how you were raised to think that's how you go about it, which is probably in hindsight, like a, I don't know. Do we think it's a better way to go about it?
28:18 Speaker 01 Well, my feeling was always like, this is a person that I love, that I spent a lot of time with. Why wouldn't I have them in my life?
28:25 Alex Cooper? Yeah.
28:25 Speaker 01 If, you know, unless it was like some like crazy unhealthy situation.
28:30 Alex Cooper? Yes.
28:31 Speaker 01 Um, of course it's uncomfortable for a minute, but I think ultimately if it's someone that I really cared that much about.
28:38 Alex Cooper? Yeah.
28:38 Speaker 01 Then I'd want them in my life somehow.
28:41 Alex Cooper? We just skirted past the big name, Michael Jackson.
28:44 Speaker 01 Okay.
28:45 Alex Cooper? Let's go back for a second. So on top of like your family already being obviously so famous, how did your life get even crazier when Michael entered the picture? Cause he had his own slew of like paparazzi and people following him and a media empire essentially.
29:00 Speaker 01 Mm hmm. Our life wasn't crazier because that was already, that already existed, like the press and the crazy, the paparazzi and the, you know, all that. Um, but her life, I think when she saw Michael's life, there were things that he had that she didn't have. Like she didn't have a plane at the time, or you know, things like that. And so her, she want, she then was like, oh, I'm, I should have a plane and I should have a, you know, this and that. And so our life in that way kind of
29:31 Alex Cooper? Got bigger.
29:31 Speaker 01 Got bigger. Cause she, before that she was with my dad and my dad, their life was very simple. Not, not with the press and the craziness, but in terms of like at home, like she didn't have 10 million assistants and, you know, she didn't need all, all of that. And I think that changed.
29:47 Alex Cooper? How did your mom try to protect you and your brother from the paparazzi during all this?
29:51 Speaker 01 It's so funny, cause I get tagged in these photos all the time where we're wearing like a hat and glasses. And I'm like, what does that do? It's so weird.
30:00 Alex Cooper? Stunning.
30:01 Speaker 01 Like, like a hiding, I don't know, like, I guess they attempted to hide our faces, but it was like impossible.
30:07 Alex Cooper? What is the most like extravagant thing Michael did for you and your brother?
30:12 Speaker 01 There was a lot of like, um, closing down things for us. Um, well, it was kind of like the only way that our family could do things. Like, uh, if we wanted to go to a toy store or like something like that, like, or ride rides or, you know, so, so it wasn't, I don't know if it was necessarily done for us, or if just for like our family situation where we had to shut the, you know, the toy stores and stuff, but there was one memorable time in London where, um, we were in the toy store. So it was just my brother and I in the whole toy store. And we were just like going floor to floor to floor and like filling up
30:53 Speaker 01 our thing. And yeah, that was the first thing that comes to mind, but I don't know if it was for us or just like the way that our life was, you know?
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32:44 Alex Cooper? You can see all the delicious options at stouffers.com. It's so interesting, like, hearing that, because now I know, obviously, you have a daughter. Mm-hmm. Growing up with such lavish things around you, have you thought to yourself, like, that was so normal to you? And like, how are you going to parent differently than how your mom parented you? I think she was such a, she was an amazing parent, and she wanted us to have, I think, like her father did, these amazing experiences all the time. For me personally, I...
33:18 Speaker 01 Want, I think that the problem there could be for some that when you're used to so much, it's hard to find joy in simple things. And so I really want my children to be able to find joy in just, you know, playing in the backyard and doing normal kid stuff and not need like elephants and circus and you know, like all these things all the time. So that's probably what I would do differently, but um, I think her intention was really, you know, wanting to, to give everything she could to her kids.
33:56 Alex Cooper? Have you had a hard time like finding happiness in the simple things since you were around such wealth and big moments?
34:03 Speaker 01 I think that there was a time in my life where I was like, oh, we're not gonna, you know, let me think of a good example of this, like,
34:16 Speaker 01 like even going to dinner. Growing up was like fifty people. It was like a big deal. Everything was a big deal all the time. So there was more of like a loneliness that would, that I experienced in my twenties when our life was a bit different of, um, I was just used to having so many people around and everything being so intense that I felt a little bit lonely, um, when it was, when my life was smaller, I think.
34:42 Alex Cooper? I think that's like a relatable concept. I think like I always talk to my friends who when you get older and you're like, life is changing and, and families and Thanksgivings, like, even if you look at what we see in like Hallmark movies and everything, like the bigger seems happier, right? Like a big family at a table and everyone is there. And when you have a smaller unit, it feels like this isn't as fun. This isn't as, when really like it could be more intimate and you can have stronger connections and it's not, it doesn't mean it's not fun.
35:15 Speaker 01 Yeah.
35:15 Alex Cooper? But there's this feeling.
35:17 Speaker 01 It's that, it's that exact phenomenon, but like probably just a little different. But yes, it's like probably the same feeling you'd get if you, you know, came from a huge family and had big family gatherings all the time. And then it was just, you know, you or you moved somewhere and you're just like, what? This feels lonely.
35:34 Alex Cooper? Absolutely. Um. Obviously finishing, because I have to acknowledge it with the Michael stuff. Like, obviously, before your mom's relationship with him, there were allegations of abuse and that he assaulted children. Then your mom went on to marry him and you spent a good amount of time with him. Like, were there any adults in your life that were like, wait, I don't know if you should be spending time at Neverland. I don't know if we want you to be there. Like, was your dad nervous?
36:06 Speaker 01 I was never told anything. So even as, and it's actually not something I ever asked as an adult.
36:12 Alex Cooper? Why do you think?
36:13 Speaker 01 I don't know. I think it just like was what it was. Like, I didn't, I don't know. It just never came to mind, I guess. I would imagine that my dad was really heartbroken and reading the news and I'm sure that, I'm just imagining.
36:28 Alex Cooper? Of course.
36:29 Speaker 01 I would imagine he said all kinds of things to my mom, you know, that we didn't
36:34 Alex Cooper? No.
36:35 Speaker 01 know about, but nothing like the, the way my parents parented was very much like, we don't fight around the kids. We don't ever say anything around them. There was no, like, we didn't know anything. We didn't know about any allegations. We didn't know, we had no awareness of that.
36:53 Alex Cooper? As an adult, when you look back on that time of your life, like, how do you feel about it now?
36:59 Speaker 01 Um, I mean, the, the one thing I know is that they were in love and that their love for one another was genuine, you know, because I was there and I remember everything else. Like, I don't know, because I wasn't there for, you know?
37:17 Alex Cooper? When your mom would break up with these people and she would like find a different partner at some point in your life, like, how do you think that affected your own attachment style?
37:26 Speaker 01 That's really interesting. I definitely would be really upset. Like, when she would break up with people, Michael, her other partners, I would cry. I'd get mad at her. I really was upset. Like, I'd get mad at her. I'd be pissed, you know, not knowing what happened, but I was always just mad at my mom for the breakups. So it really affected me. My attachment style, the one thing I know is that like, Throughout, through all of her relationships, everyone would always go, she should have stayed with Danny, who's my dad. And so I always have this voice in the back of my head. That's like, she should have stayed with Danny. And I,
38:10 Speaker 01 I know that she was, you know, someone who, when things got boring or mundane or difficult, she was like, see ya, you know?
38:23 Alex Cooper? Right.
38:24 Speaker 01 And I think that there's this part of me that feels like,
38:32 Speaker 01 I don't know, staying with,
38:36 Speaker 01 if you find, if you're so lucky to find somebody who is like your kind of best friend in the way that that they were, to to try and like, you know,
38:45 Alex Cooper? Make it work.
38:45 Speaker 01 Make it work.
38:47 Alex Cooper? Yeah, that was what I thought was interesting in the book was like basically saying like when your mom was, um, when she was passing, like, wasn't he like the last person there basically for her?
38:56 Speaker 01 Yeah.
38:56 Alex Cooper? And through all of these different relationships, didn't she date like Nicolas Cage? At one of these big moments that were press moments, but really the through line was like, it seemed like your mom and dad like always kind of stayed by each other's side, which I can imagine for your own like romantic situation. I know you're married now, but like prior to your husband, were were you ever feeling that through line of like, ooh, this is getting boring, I'm gonna run or had you know what I mean?
39:26 Speaker 01 I definitely had that when I was younger.
39:28 Alex Cooper? Okay.
39:29 Speaker 01 When I was younger, I was very hard to pin down. I was not interested in, you know, sticking around.
39:37 Alex Cooper? Yeah.
39:37 Speaker 01 And I definitely like didn't have the best track record there. So that I think would tie to sort of my mom's way of like, You know, moving on once the
39:48 Alex Cooper? The thrill.
39:48 Speaker 01 The thrill is, you know, whatever that when I was a teenager, I was like a
39:54 Alex Cooper? That makes sense.
39:55 Speaker 01 Yeah.
39:55 Alex Cooper? I'm curious, like, was there any part of you that was ever nervous to get married?
40:00 Speaker 01 No, which is so stupid.
40:04 Speaker 01 I was, I mean, I was young. I was twenty five when I got married.
40:07 Alex Cooper? Oh, my God.
40:08 Speaker 01 I was a little girl.
40:10 Alex Cooper? You weren't nervous?
40:11 Speaker 01 I wasn't nervous. I was so excited. I didn't, I, I didn't know what marriage was. I hadn't been in a relationship longer than three years, you know? Like, I, I didn't think about it.
40:21 Alex Cooper? Yeah, I love that for you. I mean, that's like really interesting to hear because like I know why I love these type of conversations. It's like you never know what you're gonna get because some people could be in your situation being like, I was so petrified because I didn't want to do what my mom had done, or you know, you're gonna like play out what she was doing, but you're like, no, I like went right into it.
40:42 Speaker 01 Yeah, I didn't really think I was, yeah, it wasn't impulsive or anything. I just like knew that he was the person. I knew he was the person I was meant to have kids with. I just knew it. So I don't know. And neither of us were like, neither of us ever put any pressure on it either. It wasn't like, we still don't. We're not like, our marriage will never fail and we're gonna be together till we're eighty, you know, like we're both kind of like if we ever were unhappy, we would get divorced.
41:06 Alex Cooper? Right.
41:07 Speaker 01 You know?
41:07 Alex Cooper? You're realist.
41:08 Speaker 01 We're realists. We're like, whatever.
41:09 Alex Cooper? You talk about how your mom was very open with you and that sometimes could feel like a curse. What do you mean by that?
41:17 Speaker 01 There were just not a lot of boundaries. It was very like everyone knew everything about everybody.
41:22 Alex Cooper? Yeah.
41:23 Speaker 01 Um, and everyone was involved in everybody's. If I was breaking up with a boyfriend, like she was involved, you know, like it was like that kind of a thing. Um, she, everyone, you know, my brother, my dad, like we were very enmeshed, I think.
41:36 Alex Cooper? Wow.
41:37 Speaker 01 Yeah.
41:37 Alex Cooper? So would you ever find yourself, though, like roles reversed? I feel like sometimes people get to the point where they almost become the mother to their mother. Did you ever play therapist with your mom?
41:49 Speaker 01 Yes, I think that there was a certain point, probably in my mid twenties when I sort of became more of the caretaker in the relationship and I think it was around when she became addicted to opiates. Um, cause she was always sort of the like leader in our family and then she had, you know, fell into her addiction and at that point I sort of, yeah, our, our dynamic changed a lot.
42:19 Alex Cooper? Can we talk about that because so many friends and I have these conversations now, I have people that write in and it's like such a mind fuck when you become the adult in the dynamic with your parent because you're like, wait, no.
42:30 Speaker 01 It's inevitable.
42:31 Alex Cooper? It's so weird and hard and it's like, you have to have so, you either have to have so many conversations or you don't and it just is what it is and you're left feeling a little bit like an identity crisis because your parent who you could always go to and be like the child to, you're kind of now like, wait, why are you relying on me so heavily for things that like?
42:53 Speaker 01 I think the weirdest part about it in my experience is they don't notice they're doing it.
42:58 Alex Cooper? Yes.
42:58 Speaker 01 You know, and you're like, wait, no, how, who's seeing this?
43:04 Alex Cooper? It's such an unsaid thing.
43:06 Speaker 01 Yeah.
43:06 Alex Cooper? No, you're so right. Like they're not aware, but you're aware.
43:10 Speaker 01 Yeah.
43:10 Alex Cooper? And I'm like,
43:11 Speaker 01 And then it's like awkward because you can't say like, I don't want to be your parent.
43:16 Alex Cooper? Like grow up, like what is going on? And that's why I think it's such a mind fuck because then the people or the person that you're most likely going to in your past, go to, to complain about something like that is your mom.
43:29 Speaker 01 So you go to the other one.
43:30 Alex Cooper? Right.
43:31 Speaker 01 So you go to your dad.
43:33 Alex Cooper? And then he's losing it too. And you're like, oh shit. Girl going insane. It's really interesting watching my parents get older now. I'm like,
43:41 Speaker 01 Do you feel like you have that dynamic with your parents?
43:43 Alex Cooper? I started to in a moment and I have been doing a lot of therapy.
43:49 Speaker 01 Yeah.
43:49 Alex Cooper? And they have, like my mom and I have talked about like our therapy journeys because I'm like, we gotta try to not make this happen. Like we, even if we're equals as adults, but I think, and it's,
44:00 Speaker 01 What are the ways, if you're comfortable in sharing, that you find yourself in that situation? Like how?
44:06 Alex Cooper? I think like as basic as like calling me for help on everything where you're like,
44:15 Speaker 01 How did we get here?
44:17 Alex Cooper? How did we get here?
44:19 Speaker 01 Yeah.
44:19 Alex Cooper? How did we get through life where?
44:21 Speaker 01 I have to say like, that is something that I really am going to try my best. I don't know if it's just inevitable, but like as a parent, like I don't ever want my kids to feel like they have to take care of me.
44:32 Alex Cooper? Yeah.
44:32 Speaker 01 Or unless they literally do.
44:35 Alex Cooper? Yeah.
44:36 Speaker 01 But I mean, like emotionally, you know, I don't want, I don't want my children to feel like my happiness is their responsibility.
44:46 Alex Cooper? I feel the same way, but I also feel like so many people have that point of like, I'm gonna do it so differently than my parents. And it feels like every generation says that and then we keep fucking up.
44:57 Speaker 01 I think there's another, uh, you know, I think you just have to accept that you're gonna do stuff wrong.
45:02 Alex Cooper? Yeah.
45:02 Speaker 01 And you're gonna end up like your, your child is gonna end up talking to the therapist about you. It's just part of being a parent. So I, for me, I just, I try and not, you know.
45:12 Alex Cooper? Read into it.
45:13 Speaker 01 Read, or read anything. At all.
45:16 Alex Cooper? I don't read. I sit in silence.
45:17 Speaker 01 But I think there's so much pressure, you know, to improve on the future generation as, as you know, whatever. And, and so I think, I don't know, I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about.
45:26 Alex Cooper? No, it's such a, no, no, you're like, and pivot.
45:29 Speaker 01 And pivot.
45:30 Alex Cooper? I know exactly what you're talking about. Also, I love that you having a daughter, like, did your mom ever talk to you about the trauma and the grieving process of like losing her father and like how she dealt with that? Cause I feel like you write a lot in the book of like, seeing her in a moment, like crying and drinking and crying over Elvis's death, but then it's like, how?
45:56 Speaker 01 She never talked about her grief. She only would talk about him. So she never would, I don't think she processed her grief. Like, I think that because her grief was so public.
46:09 Speaker 01 She would hide a lot of her feelings because she, they felt personal, like something she could keep to herself. So I think because of that, she didn't really talk about the grief so much. And I think as she, in her late 40s, and like when she was 50, she started realizing that she hadn't really ever talked about it to anybody.
46:30 Alex Cooper? Yeah.
46:30 Speaker 01 Which I think is also common with older generations, you know, nobody was talking about
46:35 Alex Cooper? At all.
46:37 Speaker 01 All their things.
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49:01 Alex Cooper? Dinners are not only delicious, they're done in a flash. Serve up their classic lasagna, chicken pesto, or carbonara for two. Whatever you're craving, Stouffer's is your hot, delicious, easy meal fantasy. When the clock strikes dinner, think Stouffer's. You can see all the delicious options at stouffers.com. You obviously have experienced grief. I mean, you lost your brother and your mom in a span of a couple of years, two years. How have you thought about like, how to process grief in terms of one for yourself, but also for your daughter? Cause right, like you watched your mom not be able to handle it till she was about 40, 50 and start to feel it. Like, have you taken different steps?
49:45 Speaker 01 The only like step that I've actively taken is to like feel my feelings.
49:51 Alex Cooper? It's a good step. That's a good step, girl.
49:53 Speaker 01 Which is a lot harder than it sounds.
49:55 Alex Cooper? Yes.
49:55 Speaker 01 You know? And some of them are, have been extremely unbearable. And whether that's grief or anxiety, sadness, like, um, I think that feeling my feelings is, is, has been the only conscious thing that I've done and trying to be present in my feelings.
50:17 Alex Cooper? Could you give? Just because I know there's so many people that do deal with family members that have addiction. Like, how did your relationship with your mom change when she became addicted to painkillers?
50:29 Speaker 01 Well, I've had a lot of family members who have had addiction issues that I will and won't say on air because it's their personal, you know, story, but more than just my mother.
50:42 Speaker 01 And it's been a really interesting life because I've been surrounded in a way with people suffering from addiction, but there's never anything I can really do about it.
50:54 Speaker 01 And it's, I have, I found myself kind of going like, what is the lesson here? Like, to be around people harming themselves and, and nothing I do will change it. And so the only thing that I could do was surrender to what is, you know?
51:11 Alex Cooper? Yeah.
51:12 Speaker 01 And of course, I mean, with my mom, it was a, you know, years of me trying to drag her into, you know, rehab or get her help or like so much effort, you know? And thinking like, this is gonna be effective every time and, and not really being present in the fact that the person sitting across from me is not participating in my plan, you know? So I just was, I mean, that was, I, I tried really hard to, you know, keep all of these plates spinning. And then ultimately it resulted in like, you know, addiction sort of resulted in the loss of two of my family members.
51:57 Alex Cooper? Yeah.
51:58 Speaker 01 I was kind of forced to surrender. And I think that it's a really hard line because you, you can't do nothing.
52:09 Speaker 01 Because you feel like, you know, you have to, you, someone you love is suffering. You have to do everything you can to help alleviate the suffering. So I wouldn't necessarily like take back all of the effort that I put in. But it's just, just a weird lesson in like,
52:32 Speaker 01 I don't know. I don't know what. I actually don't know.
52:35 Alex Cooper? No, I think that's a good answer, though, because I feel like I feel like there's so many people that go through it and you feel like you're kind of like going in circles at some point. It's like the same thing with it's a way more extreme version of when someone doesn't want to go to therapy and you're trying to get them to go to therapy. It's like you can't make the person go to therapy. They don't with addiction. It's like this person you can try to help, but at some point you also in a weird way have to like give yourself some grace that like.
53:05 Speaker 01 Yeah, something my mom always would say is she'd say tough love doesn't work. And that was, I didn't give tough love. That was, that's not part of who I am, but to other people around her who would try and like force enforce things.
53:20 Alex Cooper? Yeah.
53:20 Speaker 01 Um, and I really agree with that. Like, I don't think that personally, like unless the unless the person is really causing harm
53:31 Speaker 01 or is is a threat to you and your safety or, you know,
53:34 Alex Cooper? Yeah.
53:35 Speaker 01 then that then it's very different in addiction. But I never withdrew love in in moments of, you know, difficulty and through addiction. And I, I really believe that, you know, I think there's a lot of like, when you watch those TV shows that are like about,
53:54 Speaker 01 you know, whatever addicts and stuff and they're dragging them out of, you know, these are human beings that are in pain.
53:59 Alex Cooper? Yeah.
54:00 Speaker 01 So I think that um, always operating from a place of empathy to me was always felt right.
54:07 Alex Cooper? I, one of the things that you wrote in your book that I felt like was so sad for you because it goes back to that, like isolating feeling was when you kind of talked about being seen as a narc by your family. You're like, I was, my brother is telling me to leave the club and I didn't know why. And I was like, oh, he's sending me home so he can start doing drugs in the club. And he didn't want you around. Like, how do you think that affected the way you acted around your family? Because I think the people that aren't doing the drugs, like I've had a situation like this where like, Someone trying to hide it from you and then you also just kind of feeling like not wanted and as much as you don't want to be a part of the drugs, you also feel like you're being
54:49 Alex Cooper? alienated because you're the only quote unquote sober one.
54:53 Speaker 01 Yeah, it was a really strange experience because I never was, we were never having the same experience. Like in my experience, I was always being very, I was being firm, but I was always very gentle. And to them, it was like, you're making me feel so bad. Like they took it, everything was really, uh, was received.
55:15 Alex Cooper? Yeah.
55:16 Speaker 01 Really intensely and it wasn't my experience. So I think there's so much like shame around addiction. That um, it's really hard to like, uh, have conver- you know, honest conversations.
55:33 Alex Cooper? Yeah.
55:33 Speaker 01 Um, but I, you know, like, I don't know. It wasn't like I'm in the room. Everybody's like leaving me out or something, you know? It was a, it was a slow burn too.
55:46 Alex Cooper? When you went through this like two year span of grief essentially, or like the beginning of, who did you lean on? Like who do you go to when you're, you need someone to support you?
55:56 Speaker 01 I really leaned on people who had had similar experiences because it felt so isolating. I had friends who had lost loved ones in various ways and I found that to be the most comforting because I just wanted them to tell me that I was going to be okay. You know, from someone who'd experienced it and say, like, you're gonna survive this. And because in the, in the moments, in the moment itself, particularly losing my brother, I, I didn't see a way that I could. So I, I wanted to just talk to people who had lost a sibling, had lost someone in a sort of more shocking sort of way, like the way I lost my brother, people who had experienced suicide.
56:39 Speaker 01 Um, I, I just wanted to hear just from them. But then I had amazing, an amazing group of friends around me and husband. Um, but it's, it's a really isolating experience.
56:51 Alex Cooper? It is. I appreciate you talking about it. And I think that's what was wonderful about you writing about your experience in the book is like, like you saying you wanted to go to certain people that had experienced it because. You, as much as you love certain friends, it's like if they don't under, if they've never gone through it, you're kind of like, okay, I don't need you to like, hold my hand right now. I literally need like, answers.
57:10 Speaker 01 Yeah, I would go on, I would go on like Reddit. I would literally go on forums and go like, and just because it was, it was such an isolating experience.
57:18 Alex Cooper? Right.
57:19 Speaker 01 And, and like, read people's experiences and like blogs and like I talked, DM'd with people on Instagram who DM'd me, who had also lost their siblings. Like, I would just, and talk to them and be like, did you feel this way? Did you feel this way? Cause it was so lonely.
57:33 Alex Cooper? Right.
57:33 Speaker 01 So I, anyone who had experienced it, I would literally.
57:37 Alex Cooper? Talk to.
57:37 Speaker 01 Talk to.
57:38 Alex Cooper? Oh man, you on Reddit?
57:39 Speaker 01 I know.
57:40 Alex Cooper? I love that for you. Are you also a Reddit sleuth though?
57:43 Speaker 01 No, no, no. I'm not like, I'm not, I don't, I just do a Google. I'm not like deep, I don't have an account.
57:50 Alex Cooper? You're like XXXRFMNNQQ.
57:55 Speaker 01 Nark25.
57:58 Alex Cooper? Imagine you're like the biggest Reddit sleuth and this all comes out one day. We find your account. No. Um, okay. I read that you're a certified death doula.
58:08 Speaker 01 Yeah.
58:08 Alex Cooper? Can you talk to me about what that entails and how you got into that?
58:12 Speaker 01 Uh, yeah, I got into it because a friend of mine was a death doula and um, because of what I was just saying, how I felt like when my brother died, there were no resources and I was literally going on Reddit.
58:21 Alex Cooper? Yeah.
58:22 Speaker 01 I found a community of people who worked in like the death world.
58:27 Alex Cooper? Oh.
58:27 Speaker 01 And I didn't know that that existed and um, she was a death doula and I just thought if I could make myself of use at all to people who were experiencing anything like this, I, I would. So I, yeah, I did my death doula training and got certified. It's basically, it's essentially like what a birth doula is.
58:45 Alex Cooper? Okay.
58:46 Speaker 01 For dying and you're um, taught how to be with the dying.
58:50 Alex Cooper? Wow.
58:50 Speaker 01 Person.
58:51 Alex Cooper? Do you find like that?
58:55 Alex Cooper? Kind of also continues to heal you while you work with other people? Or is it at all triggering if something is similar that they're going through that you've been through?
59:05 Speaker 01 It's, I wouldn't say triggering. I would say you're very empathetic, you know?
59:13 Speaker 01 It's hard to, you're, because you've experienced something, you, you're very much with them emotionally. Because it's, it's a shared loss, like an experience of grief.
59:26 Alex Cooper? Yeah.
59:26 Speaker 01 So, um, yeah, I think it's just, it's not that I'm triggered and thinking of my own situation, but I'm very much emotionally with the person.
59:41 Alex Cooper? Yeah. When you were in the press with like all of that shit about the estate and everything and legal and all of this, like, how does it feel when your family is so publicly like in the news like that? And that I feel like was the first time you were at the forefront.
59:55 Speaker 01 So that's, that's actually true. Like, uh, my family's been, uh, since I, my first memories is my family's in the news 24/7. Like growing up, every, where I would go, my family are on the front of every magazine, like as a child. Like that was very normal. But my mom received all of it, you know? When my mom died, that was the first time I received all of that.
1:00:23 Alex Cooper? Right.
1:00:24 Speaker 01 Energy, which was very intense. And I, it made me really empathize with her, you know? It, it's funny, when I, I've been doing press for years, like I've been acting for a long time. And typically, it's a pretty good experience. When I went out to do press for this book,
1:00:45 Speaker 01 I really, like, like the, the vibe I got from certain interviewers was aggressive. Like, tell me this thing. Tell me the answer to this. Why did this happen? Like a more like, like putting me on like in the hot seat kind of experience, which I've never like as an actor, I'm just having a nice time doing press, you know? And I was like, wow, because it's like related to my mom, I'm getting the energy my mom would get, you know?
1:01:12 Alex Cooper? And it's so interesting. And maybe it's because of the name and how media was different back in the day. And there were just like the core tenants of who was famous and there weren't that many famous people. It almost is like they're carrying on that sense of entitlement in media of like, we deserve to know this and we will go to the end of the earth to get the picture and the shot and the information. And you're literally like, wait.
1:01:35 Speaker 01 I'm like, wait, this does not happen anymore.
1:01:38 Alex Cooper? I'm like, no, no. Nope. You're like, next question. You're like, wait, you can't say that.
1:01:43 Speaker 01 Yeah, I'm like, do you want to fight?
1:01:46 Alex Cooper? That's crazy.
1:01:48 Speaker 01 Yeah, but then I realized like what she would have been dealing with.
1:01:52 Alex Cooper? Yeah, it's so interesting. Like you're, every generation it changes and it gets different. Like, and the way that you probably feel about your grandfather is so different than the way that your mother felt about her father and how your daughter will feel about her grandfather, like this empire that he was.
1:02:08 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:02:08 Alex Cooper? That's what's so interesting is reading this book and hearing you talk about it. For most of us, like, this has been a very long time since Elvis was at the center of the conversation.
1:02:19 Speaker 01 It's really wild. Like I don't quite understand either. It's like, there's still movies all the time. Like, and I'm like, this is, you know, it's, it's, it's amazing that somebody could, you know, impact people so much. Like, it's, it's really unique, you know? And I, you know, I really appreciate it because of course we love our family and. You know, want other people to as well, but I do, I do often go like, there's always like in my inbox, like this movie and that movie and Elvises. And I'm like, wow, it's really
1:02:52 Alex Cooper? Still popping.
1:02:52 Speaker 01 Still popping.
1:02:55 Alex Cooper? You're like, go, Grant.
1:02:59 Alex Cooper? Um, okay. In a way with this book now finally being out, do you feel a sense of relief? Like, not that it's being put to bed, but you got to tell this story. And now it's like, the next chapter of your life is beginning.
1:03:12 Speaker 01 I, I do feel relief because it felt like this thing that I knew was coming that was going to be this big thing. And I did sort of want it to be over.
1:03:21 Alex Cooper? Yeah.
1:03:21 Speaker 01 You know, um, I think this is like my last podcast, by the way.
1:03:27 Alex Cooper? You're like, I'm done.
1:03:28 Speaker 01 Going out with a bang.
1:03:29 Alex Cooper? I love it. I love it.
1:03:30 Speaker 01 Um, and I, yeah, I don't want to think about my trauma all day, every day, you know?
1:03:39 Alex Cooper? I feel like I didn't, we didn't get too crazy, right?
1:03:42 Speaker 01 No.
1:03:42 Alex Cooper? You wanted to laugh more.
1:03:43 Speaker 01 No, I didn't want to, I don't, to be honest, I had no expectations.
1:03:47 Alex Cooper? Did your friends think you were coming in to talk about sex?
1:03:50 Speaker 01 I literally, we can.
1:03:55 Speaker 01 I mean, I'm, I'm an open book.
1:03:57 Alex Cooper? Maybe you're gonna have to come back on and we're gonna do like a different Call Her Daddy episode.
1:04:01 Speaker 01 Great.
1:04:01 Alex Cooper? Where we get into the tea.
1:04:03 Speaker 01 We'll do a tea, we'll do a tea episode.
1:04:04 Alex Cooper? A tea session. I'm very, very appreciative. Thank you so much for taking the time.
1:04:09 Speaker 01 Thank you for having me.
1:04:10 Alex Cooper? I know this is like a lot, so thank you.
1:04:11 Speaker 01 No, I appreciate it.
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