Pod Insights Call Her Daddy Podcast Jane Fonda: The GOAT (FBF) About this episode Hope you enjoy this throwback episode! Originally aired on January 31, 2023.
Jane Fonda joins Call Her Daddy to offer her invaluable advice and wisdom. Jane talks about the importance of female friendship and reflects on the difficult times in her life that friendship helped her overcome. She speaks candidly about the pressure of being cast as the “girl next door" and the objectification that led to a 20 year battle with bulimia. Jane was married and divorced three times and now recognizes a pattern within those relationships. She worked hard to please her husbands and always prioritized their needs above her own. Jane admits she didn’t figure life out until she reached her 60’s, when her understanding of love, relationships and feminism began to shift. Jane Fonda stars in 80 For Brady which is in theaters February 3rd! You can get your tickets here: https://www.80forbrady.com/ This episode includes discussion of eating disorders. Please keep this in mind when deciding if, how and when you’ll listen. For resources on these topics, visit spotify.com/resources.
Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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2:13 Alex Cooper? What is up Daddy Gang? It is your founding father Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy.
2:22 Alex Cooper? Jane Fonda, welcome to Call Her Daddy.
2:24 Speaker 01 Thank you very much. I'm happy to be here.
2:26 Alex Cooper? I'm so happy that you're here. Daddy Gang, Jane is a two-time Academy Award-winning actress, and her meaningful work in activism has spanned decades. Jane, I am completely honored to be sitting across from you today.
2:42 Speaker 01 Thank you very much.
2:43 Alex Cooper? Truly, truly. I need you to know that Grace and Frankie has been my comfort show for the past few years. I'm obsessed. It's charming. It's hilarious. And you are good friends with your co-star, Lily Tomlin. You guys have been friends for almost 40-some years.
3:03 Speaker 01 Yes.
3:04 Alex Cooper? Can you give some advice on how to maintain friendships, even if someone is going through, let's say, a situation that's very different from their friend and they're not completely on the same page? Like, how are we maintaining friendships?
3:18 Speaker 01 That's a good question, especially as you get older and your life gets busy and everything. If you want to maintain a friendship, you have to be intentional. You really have to work at it. You know, for example, last night I had dinner with a young Canadian film director, TV director. She directed a couple of Grace and Frankie episodes. And when she finished her last episode on Grace and Frankie, we said, "Let's maintain our friendship. Let's work at it. Let's be intentional."
3:50 Alex Cooper? Yeah, I agree with that. I do think there's something about, it's hard sometimes if one person's putting in more work than the other. And maybe, I think sometimes we get confused if that means it's for a lack of trying on the other person's side. But I don't know if you've had this experience, but sometimes it really just means that person's going through something. And sometimes it has to be uneven. Sometimes one person's going to put in a little bit more work. Sometimes the other friend's going to put in more work.
4:16 Speaker 01 Right. Yeah. Well, that's the case with my friendship with Sally Field. Sally... You wouldn't know this in real life, but she tends to be a bit reclusive. She's not one to really want to go out a lot. So, you know, especially when I lived in Atlanta, I would have to really coax her out to come to dinner with me or get together or whatever.
4:45 Speaker 01 But see, I understand her. I know that's how she is. I don't take it personally. But I go after her.
4:54 Alex Cooper? I love it.
4:54 Speaker 01 Yeah.
4:55 Alex Cooper? I think that's a great lesson too of like, there's different personalities in friendships. And if you can be the one that's going at your friend more and you know their personality, you're not taking it to heart of like, they don't want to hang out with me. Hopefully they let you know if they don't want to hang out with you. But sometimes you just have to go with personality and lean in. So you're the one that's going after your friends. I love that.
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6:15 Alex Cooper? And when you give me that plus a good chocolate, I'm going to have that in my freezer. Every single night, I'm going to pop one in. I am obsessed. I love it so much. Taste the joy with every bite of My Mochi Ice Cream. Look for the green and brown box of My Mochi Dubai Chocolate Ice Cream. Cream in the freezer aisle of your local grocery store. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Southern New Hampshire University. Daddy gang, let's get real, okay? We like to make our own rules. Southern New Hampshire University gets it. They let you learn what you want with over 200 career-focused programs, where you want with 100% online courses, and how you want with no set class times. Basically, you get to call the shots from day one.
6:58 Alex Cooper? Visit SNHU.edu/callherdaddy to learn more. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Shopify. Daddy gang, you know I'm a little skeptical of the internet at times, aren't we all? But one thing I absolutely love is how much easier it has made starting a business. No matter what stage you're at, Shopify is the best place to start and grow a business. With Shopify, you get to own your storefront while still being discovered everywhere, from Google to YouTube to the shop app. They also let you sell across TikTok, Instagram, Pinterest, even directly inside AI chats. So your customers can shop wherever they already are,
7:42 Alex Cooper? and your products can appear directly alongside content. So as someone is scrolling, they just become part of their feed. Shopify truly makes it so much easier for customers to discover and buy products wherever they're browsing. And this has been such a game changer for Unwell. I love being able to sell merch directly on all the Call Her Daddy channels. So everything is in one place for the daddy gang. So, ready to add entrepreneur to your list of accomplishments? Head to spotify.com/daddy. That's spotify.com/daddy. What was the hardest challenge that you personally faced that a friendship helped you through?
8:25 Speaker 01 You know, I'm hesitating because most of the hardships that I've gone through in my life happened earlier in my life. And earlier in my life, I never reached out for help. I considered it a big weakness. I wanted to be like a guy, you know, I just, I don't, I don't need anybody, kind of thing. But I remember I had my first hip replacement surgery. I was living in Atlanta and it didn't go well and I was in real pain and kind of hazy from anesthetics and stuff like that. And I felt somebody at my feet. It felt really good. And I looked down in my darkened bedroom and it was Eve Ensler, the playwright, vagina
9:08 Speaker 01 monologues, who's my friend and who had flown down from New York to massage my feet and make me feel better. I said, "Why are you here?" And she said, "Because I love you." You know, we have to do that for our friends. But she's, you know, she's really extraordinary, a very generous, giving person. And I was just beginning to learn to, to accept help and comfort.
9:34 Alex Cooper? I appreciate you sharing that. I think that's very relatable. Sometimes, I think especially being women, there's been a narrative that we're emotional and we can't handle it. So sometimes you try to combat that with coming off as strong, when really the way that we survive is through human connection. And so I'm wondering if there was ever a turning point that you remember being like, "I'm not ashamed now to ask for help," or did that just come through life experience?
10:02 Speaker 01 It was a gradual process. I'm 85 now and I would say that it began to happen in my 40s. You see, earlier in my life, and I'm talking 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, the mark of maturity was independence. I don't need anybody. I'm, I've grown up now. There was no recognition of interdependence. And of course, that was especially true for men. So if you were a, a woman who identified with men, "I don't want to be like a woman. I want to be strong. I want to be a winner, you know, like my dad."
10:47 Speaker 01 That that became my motto to I'm gonna grow up and be an independent and I don't need anybody kind of a person. And that was part of the culture, but that began to change. So so my change also corresponded to a broader societal change, which I'm afraid is kind of going back to the way it used to be rugged individualism, you know, I'm only gonna think about me and my family. And this is a time, if ever there was one, where we have to understand, we have to work together and that we are interdependent.
11:23 Alex Cooper? Yeah, I agree with you. I think it's interesting. I feel like we kind of saw that with the recent overturn of Roe v. Wade and then everything that happened with the elections. I felt as though we were all, we've all recently been made to feel like we have no choice. This is how it is. But if we all gather together as a collective, go vote and then look what can happen. So it is kind of like a mind game that the systems play with us. But if we unite, there's nothing stronger.
11:53 Speaker 01 That's right.
11:54 Alex Cooper? You know, you, I mentioned you have two Academy Awards, but in reading your bios, it's so fascinating because the word activist often precedes the word actor. And I'm curious, when and why did you begin speaking out about causes that you believe in?
12:13 Speaker 01 I was not an activist at all until I met soldiers who'd been fighting in Vietnam, who opened my eyes to what the Vietnam War really was. And I was just, I was, I was horrified. I couldn't believe it. I really grew up believing, boy, if our flag is flying, if our troops are fighting, we're on the side of the angels. And so when I heard from soldiers, what was really happening?
12:47 Speaker 01 I just felt so betrayed and everything in my life changed. I worked with active duty soldiers and sailors and Marines.
12:57 Alex Cooper? Which is so admirable because I, no matter, obviously you're well-known, right? And you were a famous actress at the time, but in order to speak on something that everyone loves to put women in boxes, like, no, you're the pretty actress today over there. Like, how did you find it within yourself to speak out on something that could be considered controversial?
13:19 Speaker 01 I didn't even think about that. I, I just, what I heard, and they gave me a book to read that just absolutely transformed me and it, you know, it was my heart that was opened up. And everything I believed was shattered and so I had to look for new realities. I wasn't even thinking about it's controversial, it could affect my career. I don't, all I knew was, this is really wrong. And there are a lot of people in, in my country that are standing up and trying to do something about it. I want to be with them. I don't want anymore to be a hedonistic, uninvolved, and I was not happy.
14:03 Speaker 01 You know, I was, it was like, why am I here? People need to understand why they're on earth. Why are, why am I alive? What am I supposed to do with this wonderful fragile life I have? And, and so it was a great turning for me. I went from not very happy, meaningless, aimless woman to somebody who knew why I was on earth and what I was gonna do.
14:30 Alex Cooper? I really, I mean, I have such respect for you and I, obviously not that what I was trying to do is comparable, but I have started this show and I was talking about sex and relationships and I was kind of telling you before, like, it was really an attempt to have a conversation that historically men have been able to have. There's no repercussions when they talk about sex and relationships. If anything, it's glamorized, but when a woman has the same exact... Conversation, there's name calling and there's judgment. And so when Roe v. Wade was overturned, I ended up doing a docu-series for my podcast where I flew to Charlotte, North Carolina. And I met with these women that were running a preferred women's health center and was
15:16 Alex Cooper? helping women get abortions and watching firsthand all the women coming from the South because the abortion desert, that was like the first location they could go to. I was really nervous to put out the episode, honestly, because I had never gotten my toes in the political water, which to me, I was like, this isn't, I mean, it is political, but it's also just human rights. And I was really nervous, but I feel like people like you have allowed someone like me to feel like, you know what, I have to take a chance with my career that may backfire. But then what am I doing this for? I have so many young women listening. And I just felt like you're such a great example. I just, I have chills just being in the same room with you because you have carved such
16:00 Alex Cooper? a path for someone like me to be able to sit here and to take a chance like that.
16:05 Speaker 01 You know, thank you very much.
16:07 Alex Cooper? Of course.
16:09 Speaker 01 The thing that was unusual, or is unusual about my activism, is that I didn't just give money, I was on the ground, whether it was with outside military bases, with soldiers, on reservations with tribes, indigenous tribes.
16:29 Speaker 01 I was there on the ground. My celebrity would sometimes, it would create a distance between me and the people that I was working with. For example, the first time I was ever arrested, I was marching with tribes up in the Seattle region of Washington State who were claiming Fort Lawton as a cultural center, an indigenous cultural center. And we climbed over a wall and went on to the fort and we were all arrested. They were beaten. I wasn't.
17:05 Speaker 01 There was a young woman who had her young child in her arms and she said, well, you have a young daughter. Where's your daughter? My daughter was at home with a governess.
17:17 Speaker 01 It made me more and more uncomfortable, my celebrity and my privilege, separating me from the people I wanted to work with. And I had a friend in Detroit. He was a founder of an organization called Revolutionary Black Lawyers. His name was Ken Cockrell. And I said, Ken, I think I'm going to quit being an actor and become a full-time organizer. And he said, Fonda, don't you dare. He said, the movement has many organizers. We don't have movie stars. The movement needs you. Not only should you not quit, take your career seriously. Be more intentional about what you do. Make
17:57 Speaker 01 your movies reflect your values. Stick with that. So I did. I began to, you know, I made coming, produced Coming Home and Nine to Five and a number of films.
18:10 Alex Cooper? It's interesting to hear you grappling with the dichotomy of Jane Fonda, the movie star, and Jane Fonda, the person that wants to be on the ground helping people. And I think that what you just said is actually relatable in a different way for people of like, use whatever privilege you have and maximize on that rather than trying to pretend it's not there or wanting it to not be there. Use it because you're right, people are going to listen to you. It's really admirable how you were able to pivot your mindset of like,
18:42 Speaker 01 Well, I got good advice.
18:44 Alex Cooper? You're like, it wasn't my idea. I was gonna ask, like, before your work in activism, what was a belief you held that you eventually learned went against feminism?
19:01 Speaker 01 Oh, to do whatever will please the man that I'm with.
19:08 Speaker 01 Even if it's to spite my own well-being.
19:17 Speaker 01 I would fall in love. What's wrong with that sentence? Fall?
19:23 Speaker 01 No, to have a good relationship, an authentic relationship, both people have to be standing on their feet and meet as
19:32 Speaker 01 full human beings.
19:35 Speaker 01 But it, you know, it took me into my 60s to know that.
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23:15 Alex Cooper? You were often cast as the girl next door. I'm interested to know, like, did you feel like the girl next door? Like, how did that role affect how you viewed yourself?
23:27 Speaker 01 I was miserable. I didn't enjoy it. I kept wanting to quit.
23:32 Speaker 01 I never felt like the girl next door, but I know that I kind of looked like the girl next door. But also, I was suffering with an eating disorder. And, you know, I mention that because you mentioned that you have young women are your audience. So, you know, this continues to be a problem with young women. I was, I was bulimic, anorexic, and so...
23:54 Speaker 01 You know, to suddenly, I'm becoming a starlet.
23:58 Speaker 01 And there's so much emphasis on how you look. And it was a trigger, constant, constant trigger for me.
24:06 Alex Cooper? Yeah, there's already such an objectification on women everywhere about their looks, but for your job to be specifically predicated on your looks, it's a recipe for disaster, especially for your mental health, which back then, mental health wasn't even a word that people used, right? Um, you grew up in Los Angeles and your father was a famous actor. How did your father and your relationship with him affect who you are now?
24:35 Speaker 01 Well, I've overcome the effects that it had on me. I've worked most of my life to overcome the judgmental, the, the objectification and, and judgmentalism and the unconsciously making me feel that I'm not lovable. You know, if I'm not really thin, things like that. It was a generational problem for a lot of men my father's age. The objectification of women and, um, took me a long time to get over that.
25:06 Alex Cooper? Yeah, I would say so, having it from your father, that must have been difficult to feel objectified when really all you want is love and support.
25:13 Speaker 01 Right.
25:13 Alex Cooper? Do you think that your relationship with your father influenced your then romantic relationships?
25:21 Speaker 01 Oh, sure.
25:27 Speaker 01 I was determined that I was going to marry somebody that was the opposite of my father. I married three times. On the surface, they all looked the opposite of my father. But where it mattered, the ability to, to become intimate, really. And what does that mean, intimate? It means this is who I really am authentically. Warts and all, I'm going to be authentic with you.
25:55 Speaker 01 And I think that I chose men who weren't
26:00 Speaker 01 that way and weren't going to demand that of me. And I think that's because of my father, you know, and my relationship with him.
26:09 Alex Cooper? Yeah. Do you see? If you look back, do you see like patterns in your romantic relationships?
26:18 Speaker 01 I mean, I stayed in them all longer than I should have.
26:22 Alex Cooper? Relatable.
26:23 Speaker 01 Uh huh.
26:23 Alex Cooper? That's very.
26:24 Speaker 01 You know, didn't have the guts to.
26:28 Speaker 01 Uh, yeah, also not really talking things out. Enough, you know? If you have issues on the, on, on the level of relationships, they're going to keep playing themselves out.
26:41 Alex Cooper? Yeah. Isn't that so interesting? I feel like I, I mean, I, I know I have more to go, but like the relationships I've had in my past, I feel like because I wasn't fully formed as an individual and knew what I really wanted, I was looking for it in men.
26:57 Speaker 01 Mm hmm.
26:57 Alex Cooper? And the pattern kept arising that the relationships were pretty toxic. That I eventually worked on myself and then I'm now in one that's not unhealthy. But it took me like taking responsibility for myself to be like, I gotta wake up at some point or it's just gonna keep happening. Like, we don't need to say the definition of insanity, Jane, but like, you know what I mean? Like you, you all of a sudden you gotta wake up one day and be like, huh? If this keeps happening, I have to.
27:27 Speaker 01 Look at yourself. How old are you?
27:29 Alex Cooper? I'm 28.
27:30 Speaker 01 Holy mother. God, you're a genius.
27:35 Alex Cooper? What?
27:36 Speaker 01 28. I wasn't even thinking about these things. Oh my Lord. You're, you're so much more evolved than me.
27:44 Alex Cooper? I, I wish.
27:45 Speaker 01 I didn't start to get it till I was in my 60s. And even then, I mean, talk about stumbling and falling on your face.
27:53 Alex Cooper? But I, but don't you feel like, which I'm grateful for is it's because of the generation after generation, we all learn and we pick off of what we want to take.
28:02 Speaker 01 If you're smart, if you're resilient. You're that that you know, you are then a resilient person. Um, you, you can, you can pick up on what's going on and you can, you can metabolize that. And not everybody can do that.
28:16 Alex Cooper? But even like you, like it, don't you feel like it would be impossible for you to be where I'm at right now? Because you had, your father had different values, like all, like my parents had, parents that had such a different generation and view. And so it's like the trickle down effect of it gets a little better each time where your generation pushed against your parents' generation. And now I'm pushing against my parents' generation. So we're all kind of helping each other. It's taking a little bit longer than we want, but like it's, it's happening. It's happening.
28:44 Speaker 01 Well, you're like a supercharged.
28:46 Alex Cooper? Oh, my God.
28:48 Speaker 01 You're gonna, and you're gonna be president.
28:50 Alex Cooper? I'm gonna start crying because coming from you.
28:53 Speaker 01 Twenty eight, I mean, you look, it's not that you look older, but you're so evolved for twenty fucking eight.
28:59 Alex Cooper? Thank you.
29:00 Speaker 01 Oh, my God.
29:00 Alex Cooper? Um, I did, listen, I think a lot of my listeners, yeah, I said are in their twenties. What advice would you give them in trying to figure out what they believe in? And what causes they care about?
29:14 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
29:15 Alex Cooper? It's hard.
29:16 Speaker 01 Well, yeah, one thing that I, I, I always want to say to young people, it is so hard to be young. Don't let anybody fool you. It is, it gets easier when you get older, believe it or not. I mean, assuming a modicum of good health, but it's really young. It's really hard to be young. It's, it's like, who, what am I supposed to do? Who am I supposed to know? What am I supposed to become? What am I supposed to be interested in? All these huge questions that will determine the whole rest of your life. As you get older, it's like, I know what I need. I know what I can let go of. I've been there before, didn't kill me. I'm gonna survive that, you know, it's, you know, you, you don't make mountains out of molehills.
30:01 Speaker 01 And it's just, it's just easier. Um, so.
30:08 Speaker 01 Well, I mean, it seems to me that young people should care about, is there going to be a future that is going to be livable? Or are we going to go to, you know, from one climate extreme that is life-threatening, even to people who are wealthy and privileged, although it's going to hit the unprivileged and not white people worse. It's your future that's at stake. There is a climate crisis, and the window to do something about it is closing. We don't have, we have, don't have a lot of time. But there's ample reason to remain hopeful. The scientists, who all agree
30:52 Speaker 01 that there's a crisis and that it's caused by fossil fuels, and that people have to act, they're unanimous. And they're telling us time is running out, but you still have time to reverse this and do something about it. So, the first, I would advise young people just to find out about the climate crisis. And then, I'm sure that you want to do something about it. And that means not individually, you know, you, I mean, it's good to do individual things, because it makes you feel good and it makes you feel like that you're not a hypocrite. But it's, we have to change systems. We have to change who we elect to government. We have people in the government that are Democrats,
31:37 Speaker 01 as well as Republicans, who take money from the fossil fuel industry and vote against bills that can save your lives in the future. So we have to get rid of those people. And they're not all guys, but they're mostly guys. And they're mostly white. Yeah, so we have to pay attention to who we vote for. We have to vote. But become familiar with the climate crisis. And join with others in some organization to do something about it, in your town, in your city, in your school, in your university.
32:12 Speaker 01 There's all different levels that you can work on. And I think that it feels good. And the young people that I've met doing this kind of work are so wonderful. You'll make new friends.
32:26 Alex Cooper? I appreciate you sharing so much about, you know, you being like, oh, in my 60s, I figured it out. Like, when people look at Jane Fonda, it's like, this is who I want to be. Like, I aspire to have such intellect and grace and drive.
32:41 Speaker 01 Well, man, I have worked at it for 50 years.
32:46 Alex Cooper? And I think that's why I really respect you being open about that. Because I'm interested to know, like, young women in their 20s right now that are listening, what is the biggest lesson you learned in your 20s? And how did you learn it?
32:59 Speaker 01 Oh, in my 20s, I was starting to be a movie actor. I suffered from bulimia, very, very bad. I led a secret life. I was very, very unhappy. I assumed I wouldn't live past 30. I'm 85.
33:20 Speaker 01 I don't understand. Well, I do. I worked hard. I didn't go out. I didn't hardly date. I hardly, because I was unhappy. And I had this eating disorder. And then I was also making movies that I didn't very much like. And then the Vietnam War got me and changed my life.
33:43 Alex Cooper? When you say you were living a secret life, are you talking about the eating disorder?
33:49 Speaker 01 Yes.
33:51 Alex Cooper? Do you mind just sharing a little bit of insight of anything you have? For I know so many women write in to me that struggle with an eating disorder and how you personally overcame that?
34:03 Speaker 01 Well, first of all, you've got to understand, it seems so innocent in the beginning, so innocuous. Why can't I have this ice cream and cake? And then I'll just throw it up. What you don't realize is it becomes a terrible addiction
34:22 Speaker 01 that takes over your life. And it harms the way you look. You end up looking tired. It becomes impossible to have an authentic relationship when you're doing this secretly.
34:40 Speaker 01 Your day becomes organized around getting food and then eating it, which requires that you're by yourself and that no one knows what you're doing. It's a very lonely thing and you're addicted. I mean, you can't, if you put any food in you, you want to get rid of it. And it happens when your life is inauthentic. When what you should be doing and who you should be or who you really are, those things are being betrayed, you know, in maybe a false relationship or where you're faking it.
35:21 Speaker 01 You know, you know that it's wrong, but you keep going, that kind of thing. Inauthenticity can cause it. Also, being told that you're fat and it can start with that. But then it takes over your life. And so as I got older, you know, you can, you can think you can get away with it when you're young because your body is so young. As you get older, the toll that it takes on you, it becomes worse and worse. It takes days and then at least a week to get over one single binge. And it's not just the fatigue.
36:05 Speaker 01 It's you become angry, you become hostile. All the trouble that I got in was because of that anger and that hostility. And then it got to a point in my 40s when I just thought, if I keep on like this, I'm going to die. I certainly will not, I was living a very full life. I had children, I had a husband. I'd had two husbands by then. I was doing political work, I was doing all these things. And my life was important, but I was becoming less and less able to continue it. So I went cold turkey. I didn't realize that there were groups that you could join. I didn't know anything about that yet. And nobody talked about it. I didn't even know there was a word for it.
36:50 Speaker 01 And so I just went cold turkey and it was really hard. But the fact is that the more distance you can put between you and the last binge, then the better it is. It becomes easier and easier. Now, they say you can never get cured. That's not true. But I did need Prozac. That was the drug that helped me. Because a lot of the cause of it was anxiety-driven. And Prozac helped me deal with anxiety. And then gradually, I just stopped doing it.
37:28 Alex Cooper? Thank you for sharing that. Because I'm interested to know, like, the effects that social media, every generation has, right? Like, the way that women were objectified. In the 90s, it's the glossy magazines and the tabloids. Now, social media, it's like, we're exacerbating it again, almost. Like, when you see what's the impact for young women with what's happening on social media, how does that make you feel?
37:51 Speaker 01 I'm scared for them. It's much, much worse. There was no social media when I was younger. I think it makes it much worse, and it's really hard. And I don't know what the cure is. It's bigger than I can...
38:06 Alex Cooper? If someone's gonna fix it, it could be Jane Fonda, though. I'm curious, what advice can you give to women around distancing themselves from the pressures to look, feel, and act a certain way? Because we have a vagina.
38:35 Speaker 01 I think the old consciousness-raising group is good. We can't do it by ourselves as individuals. I think getting together with other young people, you know, whoever is listening, whatever age you are, you may not be young, but with other females.
39:00 Speaker 01 To talk about it. And when you recognize the shared challenge that you're all facing, it helps to say, "Well, fuck this. I'm not going to do this anymore."
39:13 Speaker 01 And then you start to become a feminist.
39:18 Speaker 01 But, yeah, I think talking about it is good. Knowing that you're not alone and that you can work up courage by dealing with it together as a group. I'm going to teach you a little history. In the 1970s, a huge change happened to psychology, to psychologists and therapists. The thinking in psychology was that, what Freud said was, incest against women is maybe one in a million. It's a fantasy that women have for various reasons. But it's one in a million, Freud, one in a million.
40:03 Speaker 01 And that was the thinking coming into the 70s. So these feminist therapists began to meet regularly in various places in New England.
40:15 Speaker 01 And they began to talk about the experiences that they were having with their clients. And one would say, you know, I... She was incested. And another would say, "I have a client that was incested." And they started to discover that this was not one in a million. This was like epidemic. What is going on here? They began to reach out to other therapists around the country who began to meet. And they all found out. They discovered that this is extremely common. And...
40:57 Speaker 01 The kind of therapy that they developed was very different than Freud, where you lie on your back and look at the ceiling while the Freudian therapist sits behind you. These women created relational therapy. And it's like, it's the difference between men's friendship and women's friendship. Men sit side by side, women sit facing each other and relate emotionally. So therapists would be able to look into their clients' eyes, would cry with them, would show empathy and emotion with them, and the women began to heal. They discovered that it's, what happens when you're abused, especially incested,
41:40 Speaker 01 is your ability to trust and relate is ruptured. And recreating trust and the ability to relate through relational therapy could help heal these women. And so, again, the reason I told that story was because it's such a great, when you get together in groups, you learn new things and it changes everything.
42:21 Alex Cooper? Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Ross. Fall is about finding pieces you love, making them your own, and creating looks and spaces just right for the season. Whether you're updating a small apartment or a spacious home, drawn to timeless neutrals, or bold seasonal touches, Ross makes it easy to imagine what's next and bring your fall vision to life. Ross makes fashion accessible to all with up to 20 to 60% off other retailers' prices on the brands you love. Find your nearest Ross at rossstores.com. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Pandora Jewelry. Make their holiday unforgettable with a gift that says it all from Pandora Jewelry.
43:04 Alex Cooper? I feel like the best gifts are always the ones that feel really personal, right? Like, anyone can buy you something nice, but when someone gives you a gift that is actually meaningful, you appreciate it so much more. And that's what I do love about Pandora. They have so many pieces that you can really just make your own, from festive charms to personalized engravings and jewelry that can represent the people and the moments that mean the most to you. So whether you're shopping for your partner, or your mom, your best friend, you can find something that really is specific to them. Maybe it's a charm that makes you think of the trip that you guys took together once, or maybe it's an engraving for your anniversary, or just a piece that feels like them the
43:49 Alex Cooper? second you see it. Pandora makes it so easy to give a gift that feels thoughtful and personal, and makes every holiday moment even more meaningful and special. Because at the end of the day, the best gifts aren't just about the piece itself, but it's the intention and the story behind them. Say more this holiday season with Pandora. Shop now at pandora.net or visit your closest Pandora store.
44:12 Alex Cooper? You're in a new movie, 80 for Brady. The movie is centered around a friend group of four women.
44:19 Speaker 01 Yeah.
44:20 Alex Cooper? What similarities did the women in the movie have to your real life friend group?
44:27 Speaker 01 Well, two of them are my real life friend group, Sally and Lily. I mean Sally and I identify with each other quite a lot. And we talk a lot. We get down and we talk about these kinds of things. And I've always identified with her. You know, we're quite, in many ways, very close. Lily is a completely different person from me, and I'm fascinated by her, absolutely fascinated. We'll be sitting side by side and someone will come up and say something serious, and Lily will find a way to respond that is a laugh. I, I mean, she's just, I'm, I can't do that. I'm just in awe of it.
45:08 Alex Cooper? Is it fun to work with your friend?
45:10 Speaker 01 Uh, yeah, very much.
45:11 Alex Cooper? Right. That's why I keep doing it.
45:12 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
45:13 Alex Cooper? I mean, you guys are...
45:14 Speaker 01 We've made two movies since we stopped Grace and Frankie.
45:17 Alex Cooper? It's like, you guys can't get away from each other, but let me be clear, we don't want you guys to get away from each other because you're magnetic on screen. It's amazing.
45:25 Speaker 01 Thank you.
45:26 Alex Cooper? What is the most rewarding benefit of having a strong group of girlfriends?
45:34 Speaker 01 Your health. You know, there was a study done by Harvard Medical School that said that not having women friends is as bad for your health as smoking.
45:44 Speaker 01 And,
45:48 Speaker 01 you know, men sit side by side looking outward at cars, at women, oh wow, look at that one, sports.
45:59 Speaker 01 Women look into each other's eyes
46:03 Speaker 01 and they ask for help. They show their vulnerability.
46:09 Speaker 01 That's so important. That's important for health. It's, I think it's one reason why women on average live five years, seven years longer than men do. Also, when women laugh, I don't know about you, but when I'm with my women friends and we laugh, I mean, you gotta cross your legs. Yeah. It's, it's, it comes from the belly. I don't laugh like that with men and, and I know that there are men that I could, but I, I've,
46:35 Alex Cooper? Yeah.
46:36 Speaker 01 they haven't come my way.
46:38 Alex Cooper? There's a lot of women that always write into me asking, you know, like, I'm in a new relationship, I have a boyfriend, and I feel like I'm distancing myself from my girlfriends. And I love you comparing it to, it's as bad as smoking if you don't have your girlfriends around you because it is a different dynamic.
46:53 Speaker 01 It's a real problem to, to, but it's one that I've been guilty of.
46:57 Alex Cooper? Yeah.
46:58 Speaker 01 When you fall in love and everything is so intense that you, you don't have time for your girlfriends anymore. But what that does, especially if, if it's a relationship that's ongoing, is it accustoms the guy, if you're heterosexual, the guy, to you not taking time to be with girlfriends. And like if this relationship lasts and you end up getting married or staying together, you're gonna want your girlfriends, but you can't, and then to go, and then you have to re-educate your partner to accept the presence of girlfriends.
47:38 Alex Cooper? Yep.
47:39 Speaker 01 So, you know, make it, make it a part of your life, even in the beginning.
47:43 Alex Cooper? Your character ends up trying to ghost her love interest. And I'm curious to know, Jane, in real life, have you ever been ghosted? Or are you usually the one doing the ghosting, not answering someone, being like, I'm gonna ignore them and disappear from their life?
48:05 Speaker 01 Well, I've mostly been married three times, or had steady boyfriends in between. Up until a certain later point in my life, I, you know, I thought that if I wasn't with an alpha male, that I, nobody would be interested in me.
48:25 Speaker 01 So I married, I didn't ghost.
48:30 Alex Cooper? That's so iconic. I married, I didn't ghost.
48:35 Speaker 01 And I don't know if anybody's ghosted me, I'm sure they have, but I can't, I don't know if they have.
48:41 Alex Cooper? I feel like no one has ever ghosted you. And now, hopefully, if a guy wasn't treating you right, you're gonna ghost them, you're not gonna marry them, right, Jane?
48:52 Speaker 01 Honey, there's not gonna be if a guy. I, you know, I live in a new house, well, I've been there for seven years, and when I moved in, like a lot of California houses, there was a man's bathroom and a woman's bathroom. I said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. There will never be a man living in this house, ever. So they took both bathrooms for me.
49:12 Alex Cooper? Damn right.
49:13 Speaker 01 No, I've, the three's enough. My father was married five times, I don't wanna go that way.
49:18 Alex Cooper? Right. You're gonna keep it at three.
49:20 Speaker 01 Yeah.
49:20 Alex Cooper? One last question, what was it like meeting Tom Brady? I'm assuming you met him?
49:24 Speaker 01 My knees got, started to give way. I'm not kidding, he came into my trailer, holy shit, and my knees started to buckle. I was standing next to the sink, so I held on. But, no, and that's when he signed this jersey that I'm wearing and gave it to me. He gave it to everybody, but anyway.
49:44 Speaker 01 No, it's, you know, it's twofold. He's a goat. He's the greatest of all time. When somebody is that good at what they do, he's like magic. You, you have to bow down, but then on top of it, he's so gorgeous, you know? And so I was just overwhelmed and he was so sweet, very generous, very nice.
50:08 Alex Cooper? You know, I view you as the goat, Jane. Okay. So I truly cannot thank you enough for sitting down with me. I know you're a very busy woman.
50:17 Speaker 01 Well, you are a fantastic interviewer. I mean, I've been at this for 60 years. You're one of the best interviewers I've ever had. You're really wonderful.
50:26 Alex Cooper? I'm gonna faint. Um, I have to go. Jade, no, thank you so much. I'm gonna start crying.
50:31 Speaker 01 You're also beautiful. I mean, I don't know, does this go, is this, is this podcast visual or audio?
50:36 Alex Cooper? Visual.
50:37 Speaker 01 So people know what you look like.
50:39 Alex Cooper? And people know what you look like.
50:40 Speaker 01 I just want your audience to, you know, cause sometimes they're, you know, they're only video, audio.
50:45 Alex Cooper? Right. So you want to give a disclaimer.
50:46 Speaker 01 And so you want to say to the, I want you to know, audience, she's gorgeous.
50:52 Alex Cooper? Jane, it was an absolute honor, pleasure. You are incredible and I, I can't thank you enough for coming on. Thank you.
50:59 Speaker 01 Thanks for having me.
51:15 Alex Cooper? Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Ross. Fall is about finding pieces you love, making them your own and creating looks and spaces just right for the season. Whether you're updating a small apartment or a spacious home, drawn to timeless neutrals or bold seasonal touches. Ross makes it easy to imagine what's next and bring your fall vision to life. Ross makes fashion accessible to all with up to 20 to 60% off other retailers' prices on the brands you love. Find your nearest Ross at rossstores.com. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Pandora Jewelry. Make their holiday unforgettable with a gift that says it all from Pandora Jewelry.
51:58 Alex Cooper? I feel like the best gifts are always the ones that feel really personal, right? Like, anyone can buy you something nice, but when someone gives you a gift that is actually meaningful, you appreciate it so much more. And that's what I do love about Pandora. They have so many pieces that you can really just make your own, from festive charms to personalized engravings and jewelry that can represent the people and the moments that mean the most to you. So whether you're shopping for your partner, or your mom, your best friend, you can find something that really is specific to them. Maybe it's a charm that makes you think of the trip that you guys took together once, or maybe it's an engraving for your anniversary, or just a piece that feels like them the second you see it.
52:43 Alex Cooper? Pandora makes it so easy to give a gift that feels thoughtful and personal, and makes every holiday moment even more meaningful and special. Because at the end of the day, the best gifts aren't just about the piece itself, but it's the intention and the story behind them. Say more this holiday season with Pandora. Shop now at pandora.net or visit your closest Pandora store.
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