Pod Insights Call Her Daddy Podcast Jackson White: Toxicity and Tell Me Lies About this episode Join Alex in the studio for an interview with Jackson White. Jackson talks all about his experience on Tell Me Lies, what it was like playing the most toxic man alive, and his reaction to the series finale. He also opens up about his relationship with Grace, his complicated childhood, and his sobriety. Enjoy!
Transcript 11,358 words · 2 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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2:13 Alex Cooper? What is up, daddy gang? It is your founding Father Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy.
2:22 Alex Cooper? Jackson White, welcome to Call Her Daddy.
2:23 Speaker 01 Thank you.
2:25 Alex Cooper? How are you doing?
2:29 Speaker 01 As if we haven't like, like asked that question like nine times before we started this.
2:33 Alex Cooper? Yeah, yeah, we've been like hanging out for a second before we started recording, guys.
2:37 Speaker 01 Was I the most high maintenance?
2:39 Alex Cooper? You're not high maintenance. No, no, no, I'm just dealing with a lot right now emotionally because I just watched the finale last night.
2:46 Speaker 01 Oh, that kind of.
2:47 Alex Cooper? And so like, I'm, I'm just trying to process like you as you and all the girls came up and they're like, oh, he's like really charming and he's like really nice. And then like watching Steven last night.
2:58 Speaker 01 I know.
2:59 Alex Cooper? And so it's like a little bit of a mindfuck to be sitting here with Steven DeMarco being like, should I be scared? Like, what's the vibe? Do people come up to you on the street and call you Steven or Jackson?
3:08 Speaker 01 They all the time. It's mostly Steven.
3:10 Alex Cooper? How do you feel about it?
3:11 Speaker 01 I'm excited for it to be not to get to the phase where it's your name. It's a great honor to be a, a, a great character, but I'm super stoked for my own name to be said. But now I'm still, yeah.
3:27 Alex Cooper? Jackson, represent.
3:29 Speaker 01 It's one day, but it's cool. I'm Steven now. I'm Steven.
3:32 Alex Cooper? Um, when I think about Steven, I feel like he's kind of the antithesis of the America sweetheart, you know? Can you kind of just try to explain to us what it was like playing a literal sociopath? Like, how did you get into that character?
3:51 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, it started.
3:55 Speaker 01 It started as it always, just very simply. You just try and be truthful and enjoy the character and learn him. And then he turned into this like absolute garbage fire of a guy. But at the beginning, it was really fun. It was like, it was like, why does he do what he does? And he was a complicated guy and a complicated relationship and it was really fun. And then the writers just turned him into a, he's, you know, he's the. Worst.
4:23 Alex Cooper? He's like one, one step behind like a serial killer.
4:28 Speaker 01 That's what I've heard.
4:29 Alex Cooper? Like he's right there.
4:30 Speaker 01 He's baby serial killer.
4:32 Alex Cooper? Yeah, he is. Um, I feel like it's funny to watch online. A lot of people have talked about how there are these like mannerisms. And the posture and the way he walks and the hands in the pockets. Like, is that something that you also do in your normal life? Or did you create that for this character?
4:52 Speaker 01 So he, uh, it's both. Like there's these.
4:56 Alex Cooper? Do you have good posture?
4:57 Speaker 01 Are you scared of me?
4:58 Alex Cooper? I'm not scared of you. I'm just, it's a rewiring of the brain.
5:02 Speaker 01 Yeah.
5:02 Alex Cooper? Cause I just binged it.
5:03 Speaker 01 Yeah.
5:04 Alex Cooper? So I've been watching you.
5:06 Speaker 01 By the way, I, I do have bad posture, but it's not like, I have, I'm, I'm a drummer.
5:12 Alex Cooper? Okay.
5:12 Speaker 01 And my whole life I was like this. And then so my back.
5:17 Alex Cooper? Got like the hunchback.
5:18 Speaker 01 Yeah, but I'm working on you. You go, you, you work on it. I didn't go to like theater. School and learn the, the breath in the back. I didn't do that, but I'm working on it. So.
5:29 Alex Cooper? What about the eye contact thing? Did you work on that for Steven? You kind of like don't blink?
5:35 Speaker 01 Oh, that's, yeah. There's, there's, there's isms in there that, that, that are fun.
5:41 Alex Cooper? How do you prep for that? Do you like look at yourself in the mirror and do that?
5:45 Speaker 01 Uh, no, that'd be crazy.
5:48 Alex Cooper? Or would it be like amazing?
5:50 Speaker 01 That'd be nuts. I don't know. He's, he's, he has a lot of, um.
5:56 Speaker 01 Things half are mine, half are invented. I don't know. It's kind of a combo of both.
6:03 Speaker 01 But he's very physical. Like he's definitely a different physical. He's a different walk. He has a different thing. He's very like calculating and still, and he moves kind of like that.
6:15 Alex Cooper? Yes.
6:16 Speaker 01 Except when he's like angry and then he'll walk diff. There's like a lot of stuff that I tried to like play with.
6:21 Alex Cooper? We love him.
6:21 Speaker 01 He's a shark. He's a, do we? I don't think so.
6:23 Alex Cooper? No, I'm just trying to.
6:24 Speaker 01 You're just trying to like make me feel better. It don't, it don't play Kate.
6:28 Alex Cooper? I'm just thinking like it's a lot.
6:31 Speaker 01 He, he's a, he's a, yeah, it's hard to like that guy.
6:34 Alex Cooper? I read that you, and I don't know if you still do this, but you used to watch every episode of Tell Me Lies, like four times. You could go from like hating to then loving your performance. Did you do that for the season?
6:47 Speaker 01 Nope.
6:48 Alex Cooper? Why?
6:49 Speaker 01 Because it's got, it's gone too far.
6:51 Alex Cooper? Okay.
6:52 Speaker 01 I can't, I, I don't want to do that anymore. It hurts. It's very fun to, to study the tape. I like to learn from that. But then it becomes masochistic and you're like, it just gets, it's not healthy.
7:05 Alex Cooper? Did you watch season three?
7:09 Speaker 01 Briefly.
7:09 Alex Cooper? Briefly?
7:10 Speaker 01 Yeah.
7:10 Alex Cooper? I don't know what that means. What is briefly?
7:12 Speaker 01 Like I'll do, it's like I, I watched it once.
7:14 Alex Cooper? Okay.
7:15 Speaker 01 With a, with a far lens, with like a detached lens.
7:19 Alex Cooper? You weren't like directing yourself?
7:20 Speaker 01 No.
7:21 Alex Cooper? Like, why did you do that? What did you do?
7:22 Speaker 01 But it, no, but it creates a, it's very emotional to watch a lot of yourself. It kind of sucks. Do you watch your own?
7:31 Alex Cooper? Yeah, but I've been now doing this for a while. Like in the beginning days, it was harder.
7:34 Speaker 01 Yeah.
7:35 Alex Cooper? But it's not fun.
7:37 Speaker 01 I think that happened with Steven where I detached him unintentionally as it went on.
7:43 Alex Cooper? Yep.
7:43 Speaker 01 I think I tried to bring myself into him, but then as he became worse and worse, I was like, yeah, he's a character. I'll make him be a character and then I could.
7:54 Alex Cooper? Then you can play with it more and detach. Um, I'm thinking about it, it being Wednesday. Everyone just found out that this was the series finale, not the season finale. And none of us had any idea that this was the end of Tell Me Lies. How are you feeling and how did you find out?
8:16 Speaker 01 Really recently, a few, few days ago, actually.
8:19 Alex Cooper? And who told you?
8:20 Speaker 01 So Grace actually told me and we were both in the airport. We were both in the airport in separate parts of the airport. We're in different.
8:28 Alex Cooper? Terminals.
8:29 Speaker 01 Different terminals.
8:30 Alex Cooper? So far away.
8:31 Speaker 01 Two terminals away. It's a new love story. And, um, and.
8:38 Speaker 01 I felt really, really sad initially, even though I knew creatively that's what was supposed to happen. That's what the intention always was, was, you know, it's, and it's a very perfect. We'll get into that.
8:54 Alex Cooper? We're gonna get into it if it was a perfect ending. I do think it was.
8:57 Speaker 01 I think it's hilarious, but it, but it was very sad. I was sad and I, and cause it's like you're, you made a family, the cast was like a family. And then you, you also like lost a job. You didn't, but it also feels like a little bit like that. And it's been four years putting yourself into something.
9:23 Speaker 01 So it was like mixed bag.
9:24 Alex Cooper? So did you guys have like a conversation with your castmates? Like, are you guys gonna have like a going away party?
9:30 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean, I wish, I hope, cause we're so close and everyone I think is emotional about it, even though.
9:38 Speaker 01 I don't know, you, you just can't plan for these things.
9:40 Alex Cooper? Okay, let's talk about the finale.
9:41 Speaker 01 Okay.
9:42 Alex Cooper? I sat down, I had snacks, I was locked in.
9:46 Speaker 01 Yeah.
9:47 Alex Cooper? I was like, how are they gonna wrap this thing up?
9:49 Speaker 01 Yeah.
9:50 Alex Cooper? In this, there's so many questions, like what's gonna happen with Pippa and Bree and Wrigley and you? And why are you marrying Lydia? And what that, like, there's so many questions. And then she did manage to wrap the entire thing up in the finale. How did you feel about it when you were filming it and then when you got to watch it?
10:10 Speaker 01 I laughed hysterically when I read it.
10:14 Speaker 01 That we all did, cause it was like, oh, he, he wins? That's so funny. That's so cosmically funny. I am sorry. I think it's a big tragic comedy at the end.
10:26 Alex Cooper? It's so fucking crazy.
10:28 Speaker 01 Yeah, I hope everyone laughs.
10:30 Alex Cooper? No, no, no, you don't understand. Did you, do you like look online when people are talking about the series at all? Because everyone said.
10:38 Speaker 01 Not anymore.
10:38 Alex Cooper? Okay, the only way that you, it would get, be a justifiable ending, everyone was like, Steven needs to die.
10:46 Speaker 01 Right.
10:46 Alex Cooper? He needs to die. And then you like kind of won.
10:51 Speaker 01 That's so good. That's so funny. Not, not even like strictly, oh, my character like that's fucking hilarious.
10:57 Alex Cooper? It's crazy.
10:58 Speaker 01 Like you have the guy who's the, the object of the, of the torment or the, or the, the whatever, the aggressor. And then it's like very, it's not realistic because it's television, but it's a new thing. I've never seen that done before.
11:16 Alex Cooper? Well, it's also really realistic of like, this sometimes is how it fucking goes.
11:20 Speaker 01 Yeah, like probably not to that extent.
11:22 Alex Cooper? No, hopefully not.
11:24 Speaker 01 Hopefully not, but that's kind of how it goes. Like a lot of, a lot of, a lot of bad people win.
11:32 Alex Cooper? How did you feel filming the wedding scene? That whole blow up and then you taking the mic at 3am and being like, one more fucking thing, ladies and gentlemen.
11:42 Speaker 01 It was cool. Well, it was 3am. It was like 4am. We were doing that all night and I had the flu. I had like a hundred and three, I had a fever. I was like sweating and sore throat. And they like juiced me up and I went out there and, and just blacked out. I just, that was crazy. It's crazy that that happened on that day.
12:04 Alex Cooper? Who do you think made out the best in the show by the end?
12:11 Speaker 01 Do you want to say it together? One, two, three, Steven, like.
12:16 Alex Cooper? Motherfucker.
12:17 Speaker 01 I know.
12:18 Alex Cooper? Cause I was like, okay, technically Diana, you're like Diana, like she got away. But on the Richter scale of like, who did the worst shit that then got out the best? Like, yeah, he got rejected now from Yale and they like got rid of him. But you got to do another one on Lucy at the very end. That was a mind fuck the gas station moment. I was like, literally go fuck yourself.
12:38 Speaker 01 I know. I know. It's twisted.
12:42 Alex Cooper? And then you're the one holding the mic, like, like literally like bang, bang, bang, bang, bang to every single person.
12:47 Speaker 01 He just ices everyone in the room, smoked them. I had fun.
12:51 Alex Cooper? I don't know how I feel about it.
12:53 Speaker 01 Do you, are you like, yeah, like what, what is the response to something like that?
12:58 Alex Cooper? I think that it weirdly, as I've had time to process it now, I'm finding that.
13:06 Alex Cooper? At first, I couldn't decide if I wanted it to end where you and Lucy just like left in the car together.
13:12 Speaker 01 You thought that, did you think that that's where it was gonna end?
13:14 Alex Cooper? I thought it was gonna end there because I was like, oh, and he's gonna fuck her over again. But then Megan made the decision, no, let me have you watch one more time him fuck her over again.
13:24 Speaker 01 That's the perfect ending to this show.
13:27 Alex Cooper? Because why am I so fucked up that I low-key wanted you guys to end up together?
13:32 Speaker 01 Right, right. That's the whole thing.
13:35 Alex Cooper? You're disgusting. You murdered someone.
13:37 Speaker 01 I know, and that's the whole, that's the whole joke.
13:40 Alex Cooper? Yeah.
13:40 Speaker 01 And then, and then it's a perfect ending, like, this will never end.
13:44 Alex Cooper? Okay, can you indulge me for a second?
13:46 Speaker 01 Yeah.
13:47 Alex Cooper? So I think, to your credit, you brought to life a character that
13:56 Alex Cooper? millions of people are frustrated by, they hate, they've found some moments where they've like loved you or liked you, and then they go back to hating you and being disgusted. And now the character, we're done with. But I thought today, we could really finish it off strong. And you can get into character one last time.
14:18 Speaker 01 Get into character?
14:19 Alex Cooper? Hmm.
14:20 Speaker 01 Oh shit.
14:21 Alex Cooper? Get your posture ready.
14:22 Speaker 01 Darn it. Yeah, right. Just my shitty posture. All right.
14:26 Alex Cooper? Get, you're gonna get into character as Steven.
14:29 Speaker 01 Hmm.
14:29 Alex Cooper? And you are go, I'm gonna give you scenarios from my audience, and I want you to give advice as if you are Steven speaking. So Steven, welcome to Call Her Daddy. Okay. Oh God, look at him getting into character.
14:46 Speaker 01 Okay, um, so I'm gonna come back and I'm gonna answer your questions. Now I'm Steven. Okay, all right. I'm, I'm Steven, I'll answer everyone. Hey, how you doing?
14:54 Alex Cooper? Hi.
14:56 Alex Cooper? Can you adjust the microphone to be closer to you?
14:59 Speaker 01 I think it's fine where it is.
15:02 Speaker 01 Sure, that will make you more comfortable.
15:03 Alex Cooper? That'll make me really comfortable. Thanks. This is my show.
15:06 Speaker 01 Sure.
15:07 Alex Cooper? Okay. Steven.
15:11 Alex Cooper? Someone wrote in and said,
15:14 Alex Cooper? "I went through my boyfriend's phone last night and saw he has an active dating profile. Should I tell him I know? What do I do, Steven?"
15:23 Speaker 01 No, hold that in. Hold that in for a long time. Use it when you have to.
15:30 Speaker 01 You weaponize it. Wait until you're in a situation where he is in front of his parents and reveal it. And put it on a flash drive.
15:44 Speaker 01 Wait until you're making love and at the moment of climax,
15:50 Speaker 01 reveal
15:52 Speaker 01 that you know about his dating profile.
15:54 Alex Cooper? Okay, Steven.
15:55 Speaker 01 Sorry.
15:56 Alex Cooper? So fucking, this is great. Oh, this is great. Okay, next one.
15:59 Speaker 01 Okay.
16:00 Alex Cooper? This is kind of really relatable to Steven.
16:01 Speaker 01 Okay.
16:02 Alex Cooper? "My boyfriend and I keep getting into massive arguments, but he never takes accountability for his actions. How can we move forward if he will never own up to the things that he's done?"
16:13 Speaker 01 Find the people who are in him. He holds to.
16:18 Speaker 01 Learn his secrets.
16:19 Alex Cooper? It's constantly like hostage.
16:21 Speaker 01 Hold information. Put it on your computer. And then use it at a horrible time. I think that's, that's what he does.
16:31 Alex Cooper? Why do you think that he gave Lucy back the tape?
16:36 Speaker 01 Maybe he was exhausted. He was like, I don't want to do, I'm bored.
16:39 Alex Cooper? Bitch, I'm going to Yale.
16:40 Speaker 01 Yeah, he's bored.
16:41 Alex Cooper? Yeah. That's probably what it was. He was bored.
16:44 Speaker 01 Yeah, he's bored.
16:44 Alex Cooper? He was like, you look pathetic.
16:45 Speaker 01 Yeah.
16:46 Alex Cooper? I tortured you enough.
16:47 Speaker 01 Yeah, he's done.
16:48 Alex Cooper? Now I need to find another thing to torture you over.
16:50 Speaker 01 He was over.
16:50 Alex Cooper? Okay, we're moving on.
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17:56 Alex Cooper? that she will not be leaving my side. She's like, "I got you, I'm the babysitter, okay." And now that it is October, I'm picturing cooler weather, cozy sweaters, oh my God, maybe a little cottage where we can escape for a little weekend. That's what I love about booking a home on Airbnb. Whether you're traveling with family, friends, or your partner, everyone has space to relax while still being together. Even if you're traveling for a concert or a game, you have one place where everyone can get together and convene after. Before the holiday season gets busy, treat yourself to one more fall getaway and check out Airbnb while you're planning it. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by My Mochi.
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20:52 Speaker 01 Okay, let's talk about Grace.
20:53 Alex Cooper? Let's talk about my girl.
20:54 Speaker 01 That, that's easy for me. I can, that's, I can relax.
20:57 Alex Cooper? Well, when Grace came on here, she talked to me about how she kinda has this thing for like kinda crazy pajamas.
21:07 Alex Cooper? And after she then sent me the video of her in the said crazy pajamas.
21:14 Speaker 01 Which video, which vid you get?
21:16 Alex Cooper? You took the video and it's her, she kinda looks like she's in, it's like a.
21:22 Speaker 01 Is the one with the black feathers?
21:23 Alex Cooper? Oh, no, not that one. I didn't get that one. It was, we didn't get that one. It was more of like a jester striped situation.
21:30 Speaker 01 Striped situation.
21:31 Alex Cooper? And I was wondering, have you, like, did you wear anything lucky last night to bed to prepare for this?
21:39 Speaker 01 Did I wear anything lucky last night to bed?
21:41 Alex Cooper? To prepare for this interview?
21:43 Speaker 01 More people would ask me that. I didn't wear anything lucky.
21:49 Speaker 01 I wore my normal bed wear.
21:52 Alex Cooper? Okay, what do you wear?
21:54 Speaker 01 Underwear and like, I like a, a tank top when I sleep.
21:59 Alex Cooper? Okay.
21:59 Speaker 01 Just a little, like, not the full t-shirt thing and not, or I'll rip it off and go just underwear, just underwear.
22:07 Alex Cooper? And I just want to clarify, like, I hope, I wasn't asking you, I wouldn't have asked you, unless your girlfriend told me. Cause I'm picturing Grace wearing her full jester outfit and then you in normal.
22:17 Speaker 01 Yeah, she's in a, well, she wears the cap with the, with the bell, like Scrooge.
22:23 Alex Cooper? Yup.
22:24 Speaker 01 She looks like Scrooge.
22:25 Alex Cooper? With the elf feet.
22:26 Speaker 01 Yup, with the feet and she's grumpy and she's sitting there with it over her breasts and then I'm in nothing and, and that's how we sleep. It works.
22:36 Alex Cooper? I love that.
22:37 Speaker 01 It's great.
22:38 Alex Cooper? Okay, so that you wore like a normal outfit to bed last night. I love that.
22:40 Speaker 01 Yeah.
22:41 Alex Cooper? These are the hard hitting facts that we need to know on Call Her Daddy. Um, when I got to interview her a few months ago.
22:46 Speaker 01 Yeah.
22:46 Alex Cooper? Loved her. She's lovely. Um, she told me about how you guys met and how you fell in love, but she said that you were giving off very, very serious actor energy on the initial video call where you guys met. How do you remember that going?
23:04 Speaker 01 Well, when you're nervous, you go into.
23:08 Speaker 01 A mode. Course. So when you're on like a big, she had the job, I didn't have the job. So I was in like a mode. I was in like a, hello, nice to meet you. And we do a mode. It wasn't serious, but it was like.
23:20 Alex Cooper? Trying to get the job.
23:21 Speaker 01 Yeah. And then I remember what happened. She always trips up on this. She had the job. I didn't have the job. This is a very interesting conversation on power. And she said, do you need anything from me? Which is a very like actory question. Not to throw back on her, but that's very like, do you need anything from me performance wise? And then I think I said, no, you're doing great. No, you're doing great. Which if you don't know me, I can sound very condescending sometimes. But I do, I mean it genuinely. I can sound very like, like, good job.
24:00 Alex Cooper? Right. And you're like horrible job. You're like, no, really good job.
24:03 Speaker 01 You know what I mean? When someone's like, hey, you're doing great.
24:05 Alex Cooper? Right.
24:06 Speaker 01 And so I think I probably sounded like a dick, but I really meant it. She was like, can I do anything? I'm like, no, you're great.
24:11 Alex Cooper? Okay. So then you left that and did you feel any vibes?
24:15 Speaker 01 Romantic vibes? Um, no, we were pretty, we were, we were walled up. We were walled up. Um, she was, yeah, she, from the very initial time, we were both like in relationships. We were like, it was not like that. I think it was, it wasn't until everyone was open and we might do this job together. That's when we started, you know.
24:39 Alex Cooper? What do you remember about the first time you started to have like, oh my God, wait, could I have romantic feelings for this person?
24:46 Speaker 01 When she texted me.
24:47 Alex Cooper? What did she text you?
24:49 Speaker 01 Like, hey, like, what's up? I was, I was in, I was in Canada for some reason and she said, uh, it was like, you know, hey, come to New York. She didn't say like, come to New York, but she was like, what are you doing? I'm doing this for the holiday. She was like, oh, I was like, I might come to New York. And she was like, Something like cool and sexy where she was like, you should like you fucking should like with a fuck. You should fucking do it. Something like that.
25:15 Alex Cooper? And you guys were already filming Tell Me Lies.
25:17 Speaker 01 No, no, no, no, I hadn't. I still hadn't had the job. It took me eight months to get this job. I had to convince so many people to let me do this job. It was very funny.
25:27 Alex Cooper? Um, cause you're so good at the role.
25:29 Speaker 01 Well, thanks. No, no, I, I, um, they just had to comb the earth, I guess, to find this. It's a very complicated guy and there was like a lot of dudes who did it, you know, whatever.
25:41 Alex Cooper? Yeah.
25:41 Speaker 01 Whatever.
25:42 Alex Cooper? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
25:42 Speaker 01 And then she had the job. I didn't have the job.
25:47 Speaker 01 And then I went to New York. And we kind of like talked about all the reasons why we shouldn't. Do it cause I don't have the job yet and then.
25:55 Alex Cooper? Yep. Okay. Wait, I remember though. You said that you were dying to make the first move. But didn't have the courage to go through with it. What was going on? What do you remember feeling in that moment?
26:10 Speaker 01 Just like ripping out of your chest kind of thing, you know, that thing.
26:16 Alex Cooper? And when she finally went in for the kiss.
26:19 Speaker 01 Maybe that's a power thing. Like I didn't want to, sorry to interrupt.
26:23 Alex Cooper? No, this is good.
26:24 Speaker 01 I didn't want to make a move because I didn't have the.
26:29 Speaker 01 That's not really it. But I can totally be a people pleaser. I can totally think I'm overstepping.
26:40 Speaker 01 Maybe I wanted to.
26:45 Speaker 01 Not step on anyone's toes.
26:49 Alex Cooper? What do you mean?
26:50 Speaker 01 Hmm.
26:52 Speaker 01 Well, like.
26:54 Speaker 01 Like what if I didn't have the role? And then I kissed her. And then she was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Now you're definitely not getting the role.
27:02 Alex Cooper? Right, right.
27:04 Speaker 01 Like what if I overstepped?
27:06 Alex Cooper? So she kind of had to make the first move and she did.
27:08 Speaker 01 Like, and that's not, these thoughts aren't going through my head, but I'm definitely.
27:12 Alex Cooper? Wait, we're reflecting.
27:13 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
27:13 Alex Cooper? Mm hmm. That's interesting.
27:15 Speaker 01 You're probably like some subconsciously, I probably like.
27:18 Alex Cooper? Tread lightly.
27:19 Speaker 01 Yeah. You like her, but don't.
27:22 Alex Cooper? Right, because it was a work dynamic also.
27:25 Speaker 01 Yeah.
27:25 Alex Cooper? And that's how it first started. So it's like you kind of got a.
27:27 Speaker 01 She was my boss.
27:29 Alex Cooper? She was your boss?
27:30 Speaker 01 She was my daddy.
27:31 Alex Cooper? Is she still your daddy?
27:32 Speaker 01 She was my, she's my daddy. Grace is my daddy.
27:37 Alex Cooper? I love that for Grace so much, honestly. You're like, I can't believe I said that.
27:41 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's gonna, I know where that, that's gonna be on your thing.
27:44 Alex Cooper? Just that.
27:45 Speaker 01 It's gonna be.
27:46 Alex Cooper? That's the whole promo.
27:47 Speaker 01 Yeah.
27:47 Alex Cooper? Grace is my daddy.
27:48 Speaker 01 I know.
27:49 Alex Cooper? It's perfect.
27:50 Speaker 01 I know what you want.
27:51 Alex Cooper? Yeah, just keep giving it. You're doing great. Okay, is it true that you let Grace give you multiple tattoos early on in the relationship?
27:57 Speaker 01 Yes.
27:58 Alex Cooper? How, like, what tattoos and how many?
28:02 Speaker 01 Um, one, two, three, four.
28:07 Alex Cooper? Now, walk me through that thought process of like, allowing someone really early on in dating to like, fully tattoo your bod. Were you nervous? Like, what if it ends?
28:19 Speaker 01 Have you ever done that?
28:19 Alex Cooper? Nope.
28:20 Speaker 01 Okay, I just.
28:21 Alex Cooper? You're like, you've done it, right? I'm like, nope.
28:23 Speaker 01 Yeah, you let someone fucking put a needle in your arm?
28:25 Alex Cooper? Nope.
28:25 Speaker 01 No, okay. Um, I don't think, you don't think about the, you don't think about that. I don't think about a lot of that. I'm very impulsive. But that was also hilarious. I like, I liked it. Um, I liked, I, I liked that. Yeah, I don't know. You're, you're on the adrenaline of the courtship phase, plus, like, pain. And I was down. That was cool.
28:47 Alex Cooper? How do you think that your guys' relationship has evolved over the course of the show?
28:54 Speaker 01 It's just gotten more adult. I don't know. It's more like,
29:00 Speaker 01 you don't think the, the ceiling's gonna cave in. You know what I mean? You're not like,
29:06 Speaker 01 I don't know. You start with a lot of fear in any relationship, and then
29:13 Speaker 01 you kind of get comfortable.
29:18 Speaker 01 And I think we've just grown up.
29:23 Alex Cooper? Would you say you start with a lot of fear in the beginning of relationships?
29:27 Speaker 01 Or maybe I do.
29:28 Alex Cooper? I was gonna say, what do you mean by that?
29:30 Speaker 01 I think normal people don't as much. I'm in a lot of fear.
29:36 Alex Cooper? Why?
29:37 Speaker 01 Because I just grew up in fear. I grew up in a lot of inconsistency. So I didn't know what was going on a lot of the time. And so I.
29:47 Speaker 01 Come at situations uh from a fearful place sometimes. I'm getting better, it gets better and better over the last ten years, but I absolutely go into things on the defense, thinking that it's not going to work out. That's how I approach most things.
30:09 Alex Cooper? That kind of relates to you said recently in an interview that it's higher stakes to stay together for me than to break up.
30:18 Speaker 01 It's definitely more work and higher stakes to be with somebody.
30:21 Alex Cooper? Yeah.
30:23 Speaker 01 It's it's way less pressure to to not more painful, but you have to like you have to want to be with somebody very, very hard, right?
30:34 Alex Cooper? Yes, like do you would you say if when you look back at your past, were you more comfortable and relaxed being single because you're on your own and you're just dependent on yourself or do you like being kind of dependent in a relationship?
30:50 Speaker 01 I think dependence is the wrong word. I think it's important to not be fully dependent. You can be dependent for certain things like I like to be dependent for
31:00 Speaker 01 things that she does better that I don't do like she's better at so many things and it's nice to have a partner in that to do things that you don't do, but the the the dependent part gets tricky when you're like stop seeing friends or what you know what I mean? That's when you have to start and that's a that's an that's a discipline. That's an effort I find or maybe that's just where I come from, but it's a discipline for me to round out my life like it's a pie and you have to everything has to be a piece. And I have to consciously go to those other pieces so that you don't put too much pressure on a relationship.
31:40 Alex Cooper? Let's go back because you just mentioned like you going into a relationship. You're like it starts in fear and then it gets comfortable, which I don't think is like a completely abnormal statement like I don't think that's.
31:53 Alex Cooper? Not what people feel. I think maybe fear is like a pretty strong word to use. I think maybe some people are more like, oh, it's a little like, you don't know what's gonna happen and it's like exciting, but it's a little like up in the air and you're kind of like excited to see what's to come. And then eventually you get comfortable. You're like, it's fucking terrifying.
32:08 Speaker 01 Yeah.
32:09 Alex Cooper? Which obviously relates to your childhood, growing up. Your parents got divorced when you were really young.
32:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
32:16 Alex Cooper? Your dad remarried three times, four times?
32:20 Speaker 01 Three, I think three.
32:23 Alex Cooper? How do you think watching your parents' different relationships ultimately impacted your perception of love and commitment?
32:35 Speaker 01 Child of divorce conversation. Like, are you?
32:39 Alex Cooper? I'm not, but I have interviewed a lot of people that are. And I also kind of feel like everyone's got their shit.
32:46 Speaker 01 It's all fucked up.
32:47 Alex Cooper? It's all, it's all fucking weird. It's so weird.
32:49 Speaker 01 It's all weird. And now it's on us to, to say, okay, cool. I, I unpacked it. I figured it out. Goodbye. It's not me.
32:56 Alex Cooper? Yes.
32:56 Speaker 01 That's, that's the new, that is the thing.
32:59 Alex Cooper? Yes.
32:59 Speaker 01 Cause we, therapy now, it's all, it's like,
33:04 Speaker 01 it's, it's too much.
33:06 Alex Cooper? Yeah.
33:06 Speaker 01 Yes, like figure yourself out and then let it go.
33:10 Alex Cooper? Before you figured yourself out,
33:12 Speaker 01 Yeah.
33:12 Alex Cooper? Did you have any patterns that you now can look back and be like, oh, that's just because of like what I was raised seeing that I thought was normal?
33:19 Speaker 01 Yeah, well, you, yeah. You, you, I think everyone is like inherently a little narcissistic when you're coming up. That's just what it is. You're like, when you're a teenager, you're like, oh my God. And then you go to college. That's what these characters all are. They're, they're just self-involved. And, and, and you,
33:39 Speaker 01 you just, you start not making yourself the victim because you, you learn that, that there are consequences or that no one's coming to the rescue. And that you can't just make it about yourself and you can't weaponize your, your past and use that in your relationships with your friends. Cause people won't stay anymore. They won't, they won't stick. They don't want to hang out with you if you're, if you're, if you're doing that.
34:04 Alex Cooper? But it is so fucked up because it takes you. As we all have done, like repeatedly doing something, whether it's a pattern, whether it's like jealousy or abandonment wounds or um being pulled back and kind of being like not emotionally available, whatever it is that you bring and then slowly you get the note enough from partners that you've been with. That you're like, okay, I actually have to look at myself.
34:32 Speaker 01 Totally.
34:32 Alex Cooper? And I need to address this.
34:34 Speaker 01 Or you don't take the note and you're out here still just ripping.
34:38 Alex Cooper? What do you think one of your notes has been?
34:41 Speaker 01 It's a great question. I'm, I'm, I mean, I'm, um.
34:46 Speaker 01 Yeah, I gotta ban him and I don't know. I guess like I'm, I'm afraid of, I'm afraid it's fear. It's all fear. So I'm like afraid of, I've been afraid of men a lot of the time that like I've been afraid of um. Like male relationships I've had to work on because um I just had a, I had a more complicated relationship with men than I did with women. I was, I was kind of raised with my mom and my sister. So um, so I've had to work on, on that. Um, in relationships, um, I, I can, it's what I was explaining you're supposed to do is like divide your time. I, I can totally not do that and put too much pressure on a relationship. That's the big note.
35:27 Alex Cooper? Yeah. I mean, I think that's really relatable too, especially if you have that instability growing up. And then you get to a point where you're like, oh my God, I found love. I found my person. Like I found this person that loves me and I love them. And then of course you don't want that to end because you're seeing real love and you have it right there and it's accessible. You're like, I don't want to lose this. And then sometimes you hang on to something because you're like, even though subconsciously you know it's not maybe perfect. You're like, but it's also someone that like loves you.
35:55 Speaker 01 Yes.
35:55 Alex Cooper? And so you're like, should I just stay because it's something stable? Or should I go because I know it's not right? And a lot of times with abandonment wounds, you're like, I'm just gonna stay. Or you leave first so that they don't abandon you.
36:07 Speaker 01 You get the jump on it. That's, that's definitely real too.
36:11 Alex Cooper? How did you feel growing up about your stepmoms? Cause that's a lot.
36:15 Speaker 01 Funny. The stepmom conversation is so funny. I didn't know him that well. I mean, my dad, my dad lived in um, in Franklin in Tennessee.
36:24 Alex Cooper? Okay.
36:24 Speaker 01 And my mom lived here and I would spend the summers and whatnot with him or, or weeks at a time, whatever breaks. I'd go out there because I loved it out there and I would hang out with these new. These new mamas and they were cool, you know, shout out to Deborah. You know, I didn't, I didn't know him that well, but I was like,
36:51 Alex Cooper? Deborah.
36:52 Speaker 01 What's up Debbie? Um, but I didn't, I don't know. I, I kinda like, I kinda, um, I was a kid. I think you have a, um, you have a gut reaction to somebody who's replacing your parent. Like I think I gave her a hard time. I was like a child, but I think I like, you know, Deborah grabbed my arm too hard. But I think she was probably a, a, a wonderful person.
37:18 Alex Cooper? Yeah.
37:19 Speaker 01 And yet I was like very adverse to, to change and, and same with my, my stepdad, my mom remarried. And like, we've always had a, a, uh, two rams locking horns just because it goes against your biology. But, um, but it's, they're also filling a very difficult role. I could not imagine marrying somebody with kids and just being like, these are from a complicated fucked up place, but I'm going to take care of them. That's weird. So.
37:49 Alex Cooper? Right. It's like, when you get older, you then can have empathy for both dynamics. Cause you're like, now you're getting closer to the point where you can picture potentially being in more of like a fatherly role. Where when you were younger as a kid, you're like, oh my God, this person's going to replace my dad or replace my mom. And now you're like, whoa, that was a lot to walk into. Doesn't mean they were perfect.
38:10 Speaker 01 I just had this conversation with my, with my stepdad where I was like, I, I, it just crystallized recently of like, oh dude, that must be so hard.
38:20 Speaker 01 Uh, I, that's, I couldn't imagine.
38:23 Alex Cooper? You had mentioned kind of like craving the stability of a family unit, your entire life. When things feel shaky.
38:33 Speaker 01 Yeah.
38:34 Alex Cooper? Where do you find, or where did you find that safety?
38:39 Speaker 01 In the, in the wrong places and then in the right places. Like you, you, you copy your parents. Like my dad was a, my dad was a very
38:53 Speaker 01 complicated, amazing.
38:57 Speaker 01 Person, he was like, he was a, an incredible drummer. And music was my whole.
39:05 Speaker 01 Uh, life and my mom is an incredible singer and we grew up. Playing so much music and, and I learned all about music and I, I've been playing drums since I was a baby and, um. And it's what I love to do. And I, and I took all those. Things from him. I also took his like work ethic, like he, he was a, he was a tour manager, he was a drummer, he, he ran shit. He's, he was a very disciplined guy and I, I, I have so much of that and I apply that to whatever I, I can. But then the, the flip side of that was, you know, he was on these. Big. Tours. And, you know, he'd get off these tours. And the lights would be off and it'd be quiet for months on end and. He came from an extremely.
39:51 Speaker 01 Um. Hostile. Um. Upbringing. And he didn't have any tools to cope with it, not like we do in our. Time. And, um. And so, yeah, there's a lot, a lot of drinking and. And all that's under that umbrella and. And, um. And I, you know, I drank a lot with him and, um. You know, just a lot of drinking and smoking with dad. And so I, I, I totally like. Grew up. With an interesting. With a skewed perspective on all that and, um, and. And if I wasn't careful, I would let that run my, my life, especially when you start doing that when you're young.
40:31 Alex Cooper? And when you have your parent. Being there with you when you're kind of doing that and it's almost like a bonding thing.
40:38 Speaker 01 Yeah. Oh, yeah.
40:40 Alex Cooper? Cause you're, you're young and he's back off the road and you're like, oh my God, let's sit and let's drink and let's talk.
40:46 Speaker 01 That was it.
40:46 Alex Cooper? And that's kind of.
40:47 Speaker 01 But you're like a 12 year old kid.
40:48 Alex Cooper? Right.
40:49 Speaker 01 So that's, that's where it gets tricky.
40:51 Alex Cooper? And did you ever feel like, cause it seems like you weren't always with him. It was like you would like visit and then you would leave like.
40:57 Speaker 01 Yeah.
40:57 Alex Cooper? Did you? Feel like you really? Got? To know him enough or do you like wish that you could have spent more time with him?
41:07 Speaker 01 Yeah. Totally. I wish I spent more time with him. This is, this is what it is though. Um, we didn't talk for a long, long periods of time just because whatever life, but, um.
41:20 Speaker 01 But but I got to I got to be with him for for the important times um.
41:28 Speaker 01 But you have like an idea of your parent. Maybe it's like girls and their mothers or boys and their fathers, but you you they're like superheroes. And then you get to the age where you're like, oh. If that's Superman, we're we're fucked. You know what I mean? It's like, oh, no. And that happened. That's which happened. In the midst of all that chaos and and um and. And it took me, you know, made us strip apart and then and then we came together when we were both adults.
41:57 Alex Cooper? Yeah. Um, I know your dad passed away a little bit ago. I'm so sorry.
42:03 Speaker 01 No, yeah, thanks.
42:03 Alex Cooper? Um, how do you think your perspective also has kind of changed? On like your parents dynamic and what they were able to. Provide for you together, even though they were separated as time has evolved. Like, do you hold resentment? Do you understand how they what they did?
42:23 Speaker 01 Yeah, I do. Not anymore. I had I had resentment for a long time and. Going back to that, like we that's what you weaponize. You you weaponize resentment. You're like, oh, this person fucked me up, so I'm gonna fuck you up. Hurt people hurt people.
42:40 Speaker 01 But not anymore. It's all love. Yeah, it's all. It's all good now. I took I took a lot. I take a lot from my mom and a lot from my dad.
42:48 Alex Cooper? Let's talk about your mom because. Obviously, you got to work with her on Tell Me Lies, which I remember I was a fan of her from Sons of Anarchy. I fucking love that show.
43:00 Speaker 01 Great show.
43:01 Alex Cooper? Um, how old were you when that was being made?
43:03 Speaker 01 Like fifth grade, sixth grade. I was young, yeah.
43:06 Alex Cooper? And your stepdad and your mom were both.
43:08 Speaker 01 Yeah.
43:08 Alex Cooper? Working on that show. Interesting.
43:11 Speaker 01 So maybe I saw that happen, you know, yeah, parents working together was a thing, you know?
43:15 Alex Cooper? Interesting.
43:16 Speaker 01 You know?
43:17 Alex Cooper? Did you ever watch the show?
43:18 Speaker 01 I've seen parts of it, yeah.
43:20 Alex Cooper? Okay. Was that a? Good or bad time in your life?
43:24 Speaker 01 It was great. That's an interesting question. No, it was great. I mean, it was cool. Like, that's. That was the big family discussion for many years was that show.
43:34 Alex Cooper? Yeah.
43:34 Speaker 01 It's like if Grace and I had a kid.
43:36 Alex Cooper? Right.
43:37 Speaker 01 They would be a, they would know, tell me lies intimately, even if they hadn't seen it. You know, I know everything about that show.
43:43 Alex Cooper? When she decided to come on, because you had the role first.
43:47 Speaker 01 Yeah.
43:48 Alex Cooper? What was your reaction to like, did you want it to kind of be your own thing and not have your mom be involved at all? Was there like a?
43:54 Speaker 01 Totally. There's a little kid thing where you're like, no, it's mine.
43:57 Alex Cooper? Right.
43:57 Speaker 01 But then I thought, oh yeah, it's fine. No, it's great. I thought it was really full circle. And I thought she was, I thought Megan was kidding when she said.
44:05 Speaker 01 They want to ask her. I thought, I was like, oh, that'd be hilarious. And then they did and.
44:09 Alex Cooper? And then it worked out.
44:10 Speaker 01 It worked out.
44:11 Alex Cooper? Okay. Your mom plays your mom.
44:13 Speaker 01 Yeah.
44:14 Alex Cooper? Your girlfriend plays your girlfriend on the show. How, and I'm sure you've been asked this before, but like, I need to ask you it myself. Like, how did you navigate not letting those two worlds of your reality to then the show get blurred together?
44:28 Speaker 01 You, you, you, you want to not let it blend, but I think it does. Just because.
44:35 Speaker 01 I'm. Like, I didn't sign on to this. I don't do this job because I'm. All there, like all together, you know, like I, I.
44:47 Alex Cooper? I like that.
44:47 Speaker 01 You, you, you come, you do make believe for your job. You're probably a little fucked up. Probably. And so you take on a little bit of everything. And, um.
45:03 Speaker 01 And it was hard. It was hard to, hard to not let the lines blur.
45:07 Alex Cooper? Yeah.
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47:13 Alex Cooper? I do want to go back to something that you were talking about earlier in regard to your relationship to your father growing up. You mentioned how alcohol was and became a big part of your life with him and your relationship. Do you mind talking a little bit more about how that influenced and impacted you?
47:40 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think.
47:48 Speaker 01 I think we all have
47:52 Speaker 01 coping mechanisms for how difficult all of this is. And
48:02 Speaker 01 it's different for every person. Mine, mine was thankfully more clear cut. Like I, like, I know a lot of the things that hold me, but there's so many things that hold me back all the time. But, um, it's so vast, the things that can fucking like, hold you back, right? Like, it's, it can be substance, it can be like, people, behaviors, food.
48:34 Speaker 01 Lot, whatever.
48:35 Alex Cooper? Everyone's got their thing.
48:36 Speaker 01 Everyone's got a thing. And
48:42 Speaker 01 I think focusing on what that is and discovering what that is, is
48:51 Speaker 01 what, what makes you progress, like as a person in your career and your relationships, like that, that's what makes you grow.
48:59 Alex Cooper? Um, for you, when you look back, like, you talk about fear. And I can imagine, I think when we have fear or we have anxieties, we can try to do things to avoid that. Like, how did you find yourself leaning into unhealthy coping mechanisms to like, avoid your pain or your fear?
49:20 Speaker 01 Well, fear, yeah, fear's the, fear's like the core fear and then, and then, and then anger is like a symptom and like, you know, drinking can be a symptom and, uh, behavior is a symptom. So like it's, but it starts with that, like, I'm not enough. I won't be enough. People are better than me. I'll be left. I'll be alone.
49:46 Speaker 01 I'm not good enough to be here or to be with this person. That's, those thoughts are like.
49:54 Speaker 01 Those, those, those thoughts start everything. And then
50:00 Speaker 01 everything else is like a, I don't know, then you just start reacting.
50:04 Alex Cooper? How do you think you got to a place where numbing those feelings?
50:10 Alex Cooper? You eventually were like, wait, that's actually more unhealthy? Like by me doing-
50:17 Speaker 01 I just got tired. I get, I get tired of running on that. It's like you, you, you don't. It's exhausting to, to, to
50:30 Speaker 01 be unconscious. You don't even know it's exhausting. Um, and thankfully I had like, I had, I had a parent who got, like my mom got her shit together. She did. She got her shit together a long time ago. And I got to see that you can get your shit together. So I had a, I had a really great example in my mom. And I want a lot of things. Like I just want a lot of things in this life. I want a lot of family things, a lot of career things.
51:05 Speaker 01 And if something's stopping you from getting those, I don't, you don't even mean it's that simple. If there's, if you're being stopped from getting those things and you're seeing signs that you're not getting those things. If you're missing your audition, if you're like, if you're, if you're shitty on the phone, if you're reacting poorly.
51:23 Speaker 01 It's just like, you just gotta focus on it. You gotta have that self-knowledge though. And, and sorry, and, and like you have to consequences are what start
51:36 Speaker 01 pushing that into action. And if you don't have consequences, it's sometimes you can go on and on and on.
51:41 Alex Cooper? That's what I was gonna ask you, like, when you were going through maybe one of the darker times in your life-
51:46 Speaker 01 Yeah.
51:46 Alex Cooper? And struggling and going through all these feelings of like, am I good enough? Am I not? And then leaning into unhealthy patterns because that would kind of numb the pain.
51:58 Speaker 01 Yeah.
51:59 Alex Cooper? What were examples where you kind of had to face reality, whether it was people confronting you? Maybe you lost relationships?
52:07 Speaker 01 Um, yeah, you, you, it's both. It's, it's, um,
52:14 Speaker 01 you're subconsciously ruining everything. You just break shit.
52:21 Speaker 01 Um, right?
52:22 Alex Cooper? Yeah.
52:23 Speaker 01 Yeah.
52:24 Alex Cooper? Well, and it's hard too, because like depending on where you're at in your life, like
52:31 Alex Cooper? I feel like for social reasons, like it's so fucking confusing.
52:40 Alex Cooper? If even if you're talking about like drinking, like it's so confusing because it's such a social thing.
52:46 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah.
52:47 Alex Cooper? And so it's like the fear of like, am I not going to be fun anymore if I stop? Am I not going to be this anymore? And it's like, there's so much that we tell ourselves. If we want to try to get better, you almost go to the negatives first before like, we know this is going to actually make your life a lot healthier and happier. Um, but it's so ingrained in culture that it's really hard to be like, can I stop this? Should I?
53:11 Speaker 01 Going on a date, like if you've drank on every date and then you go on a date and you're not drinking, like you feel like a alien and you feel like, oh my God, all my stuff is coming out and I'm not prepared for this. And, um, and, and this is also side note, these things don't go away when you take a behavior out of your life. The hole, the God sized hole is fucking there no matter what. For most people, I mean, for all people, for all people, there's a, there's a, there's a thing that we're trying to fill with people and places and things and money.
53:54 Alex Cooper? Good point.
53:54 Speaker 01 We just are, it doesn't go anywhere. You just have to take out the thing that makes it destructive.
54:01 Alex Cooper? Which is really fucking hard.
54:02 Speaker 01 Which is fucking hard. And it's just substituting vices, right? It's not like there's one good one and one bad one. It's just what's working for you. If, if you're taking it out in your relationship, you, you're going to hurt somebody. If you're taking it out with substances, you're going to hurt yourself.
54:19 Alex Cooper? For you, once you were able to be like, okay, I am going to try to move forward in life and like, give myself a healthier lifestyle, let's say. Um, what were some of the positives and negatives that you saw? Once you got that clarity of like, I need to shift my life. I need to change my, my actions to my own body and to myself.
54:45 Speaker 01 Everything, everything changed.
54:51 Speaker 01 Like, I wanna say that there were external things that changed dramatically, but there weren't. But there were, well, there were. I mean, you, you get, you're, if you're clear, you can, you're just better prepared for life and you can succeed and blah, blah, blah. But also you just, it's here. You just feel less like you're in trouble all the time or you're gonna, you just, you have, you have that ease. And that's what we all want is that ease. I just wanna feel okay.
55:24 Alex Cooper? Yeah.
55:25 Speaker 01 Yeah. You wanna see your shit come out. Stop drinking.
55:28 Alex Cooper? Yeah.
55:28 Speaker 01 You'll get to the real shit. Stop drinking, you'll feel great. And then, and then that deep in the core shit comes out and it's like, oh yeah, that was there. I was just covering it up with, with whatever.
55:41 Alex Cooper? How are you doing with the fears and the anxieties and all of that?
55:46 Speaker 01 I'm doing good. It's been a good, um,
55:50 Speaker 01 a long educational road, uh, uh, and, and I feel, I feel great. Um,
55:59 Speaker 01 my life has changed and I have a lot of, uh, a lot, a lot of love in my life and, and I, I care about people. That's the big thing. I genuinely give a shit about like how some, someone else is doing.
56:18 Speaker 01 Which I didn't have when I was like younger and running on fucking Doritos and fear like I, I, you know, and that's the,
56:30 Speaker 01 that's the best thing to come out of it is like, cause all I want, all I want is to be like, um, like a worker among workers, like just fucking, just, I want the life to be like calm and serene.
56:43 Alex Cooper? And I think sometimes when people talk about a darkness in their life, the beauty of it is it also brings such a, a light because it's like, it really forces you to go through a lot of fucking shit. But then you've been through a lot of fucking shit.
57:00 Speaker 01 I had to, because if I, if I didn't, then my shit would run the, I would, I wouldn't be working. I wouldn't be around people. I had to. That's, that's what I'm learning. You can actually just. Face the fear.
57:13 Alex Cooper? It's amazing.
57:35 Alex Cooper? Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Southern New Hampshire University. Daddy gang, let's get real, okay? We like to make our own rules. Southern New Hampshire University gets it. They let you learn what you want with over 200 career-focused programs, where you want with 100% online courses, and how you want with no set class times. Basically, you get to call the shots from day one. Visit s n h u dot edu slash call her daddy to learn more. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Ross. Fall is about finding pieces you love, making them your own and creating looks and spaces just right for the season. Whether you're updating a small apartment or a spacious home, drawn to timeless neutrals or bold seasonal touches,
58:20 Alex Cooper? Ross makes it easy to imagine what's next and bring your fall vision to life. Ross makes fashion accessible to all with up to 20 to 60% off other retailers' prices on the brands you love. Find your nearest Ross at rossstores.com. Okay, before we go, I want to end with like a couple of rapid fire.
58:40 Speaker 01 Okay.
58:41 Alex Cooper? What's the time you absolutely bombed in audition?
58:44 Speaker 01 All of them, so many of them. I've got like 150 of them.
58:48 Alex Cooper? Okay. Other than you, which Tell Me Lies character is the most insufferable?
58:54 Speaker 01 Uh, Evan?
58:56 Alex Cooper? That, that sounds like something Steven would say.
58:59 Speaker 01 Well, I love.
59:01 Alex Cooper? No, no.
59:01 Speaker 01 All like, but I just mean like factually based on the plot.
59:05 Alex Cooper? Um, and also him with Bree's mom and getting the mom drunk before seeing Bree.
59:10 Speaker 01 Right.
59:10 Alex Cooper? Evan.
59:11 Speaker 01 I think he fucked shit up again. I think he, I think he's actually.
59:14 Alex Cooper? Evan, like.
59:15 Speaker 01 Bad news.
59:15 Alex Cooper? Yeah, he is bad news.
59:16 Speaker 01 Oh, wait, insufferable. The teacher, Oliver.
59:19 Alex Cooper? Disgusting.
59:21 Speaker 01 Bad boy.
59:21 Alex Cooper? Um, what is the pettiest thing you've ever done after a breakup?
59:24 Speaker 01 I disintegrated my Instagram.
59:27 Alex Cooper? What is that even? You just integrated.
59:29 Speaker 01 Like, I didn't just like delete, but it was like, delete, delete forever, destroy. And I was like, yes, delete forever. Type in password, gone forever.
59:39 Alex Cooper? To yours, not hers.
59:40 Speaker 01 To mine.
59:41 Alex Cooper? And you just disappeared.
59:43 Speaker 01 I just ghosted, because I was like, I didn't want to deal with seeing anything. I didn't want to deal with. Do I just, so I.
59:51 Speaker 01 Did you ask destructive?
59:52 Alex Cooper? What's the pettiest thing?
59:53 Speaker 01 Oh, petty? Oh, that's not really petty. That was more just like.
59:56 Alex Cooper? Insane.
59:57 Speaker 01 But I had some good momentum going too. And this was, this was a long time ago. And I just poof, had to start over.
1:00:02 Alex Cooper? Um, okay. What is the best gift you've ever gotten for grace?
1:00:07 Speaker 01 Oh, I got her a.
1:00:10 Speaker 01 I got her a, I got her a little Cartier last year.
1:00:14 Alex Cooper? Oh, ring bracelet necklace?
1:00:17 Speaker 01 Got a little Cartier ring.
1:00:19 Alex Cooper? Cute.
1:00:20 Speaker 01 But I got, I didn't know it was the wedding ring.
1:00:22 Alex Cooper? You got her the wedding ring one?
1:00:23 Speaker 01 I didn't know.
1:00:24 Alex Cooper? She's like, you're proposing.
1:00:25 Speaker 01 I, yeah, it was so funny. I, I was like, I didn't know that this was.
1:00:29 Alex Cooper? Oh, like the wedding?
1:00:31 Speaker 01 I didn't know.
1:00:33 Alex Cooper? Oh, Jackson. Did she know?
1:00:35 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:00:36 Alex Cooper? And she's like.
1:00:37 Speaker 01 No, it's a sick ring though. You don't have to wear it as a wedding, wedding ring. We just like have it on other, other fingers.
1:00:43 Alex Cooper? Okay, that's cute.
1:00:45 Speaker 01 Cute.
1:00:45 Alex Cooper? Um, what do you think your two top love languages are?
1:00:49 Speaker 01 The ones that I need are the ones that I give.
1:00:51 Alex Cooper? Both, give me both. I love that you know that as a man also. Good job.
1:00:55 Speaker 01 Well.
1:00:58 Speaker 01 I give acts of service.
1:00:59 Alex Cooper? Okay.
1:01:01 Speaker 01 Huge time, big time. That's like how I show love. I'll do this for you. I'll do this for you.
1:01:08 Speaker 01 And then I want to receive words affirmation, affirmation. I want you to tell me.
1:01:14 Alex Cooper? How great I am.
1:01:15 Speaker 01 How great I am. Let me tell you, tell me you like me still.
1:01:20 Alex Cooper? Do you remember the first big purchase you splurged on with your tell me lies paycheck?
1:01:26 Speaker 01 I bought it. I bought it. I bought a car.
1:01:28 Alex Cooper? Oh.
1:01:28 Speaker 01 I didn't buy a, yeah, I bought a, I bought it. I needed a new car and I bought a new car.
1:01:33 Alex Cooper? What kind of car?
1:01:34 Speaker 01 I bought a Dodge Durango.
1:01:35 Alex Cooper? That makes a lot of sense.
1:01:36 Speaker 01 With the, with the Hemi. Very loud car.
1:01:40 Alex Cooper? You're obnoxious.
1:01:42 Speaker 01 I'm obnoxious.
1:01:43 Alex Cooper? Wait, so you're the one driving that I'm like, oh my god.
1:01:45 Speaker 01 No, but I'm not the guy who's like.
1:01:47 Alex Cooper? But can you explain why to the sound? Like, what do, what do we need that for?
1:01:52 Speaker 01 Power.
1:01:53 Alex Cooper? Power.
1:01:54 Speaker 01 No, no, I just love it.
1:01:54 Alex Cooper? Men are so stupid.
1:01:56 Speaker 01 My dad was, my, my dad was such a car guy.
1:01:59 Alex Cooper? Okay.
1:02:00 Speaker 01 And I, I remember I showed him that I went to all these dealerships with my dad. And we picked that one.
1:02:06 Alex Cooper? Cute.
1:02:07 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:02:07 Alex Cooper? Okay, okay.
1:02:08 Speaker 01 It's a great loud car. Still have it. I'm surprised you didn't hear it pull into your.
1:02:12 Alex Cooper? I'm happy I didn't because I would have roasted you at the very top of the show.
1:02:15 Speaker 01 I know.
1:02:16 Alex Cooper? Um, yes, we're finally sadly done with Tell Me Lies, but where are we going to see you next?
1:02:23 Speaker 01 Where are we gonna see you next?
1:02:24 Alex Cooper? Do you have projects that you're working on? Do you have things that you're gonna be doing?
1:02:30 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:02:30 Alex Cooper? I know you can't tell me, but like, you're gonna be acting, obviously.
1:02:34 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:02:34 Alex Cooper? Okay.
1:02:35 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:02:36 Alex Cooper? Have you filmed other things?
1:02:38 Speaker 01 I did film something else.
1:02:39 Alex Cooper? Okay.
1:02:41 Speaker 01 I filmed something after the last season.
1:02:42 Alex Cooper? And was that character so different than Steven?
1:02:46 Speaker 01 Opposite.
1:02:47 Alex Cooper? How did you feel about that?
1:02:50 Speaker 01 It was awesome.
1:02:51 Alex Cooper? Electric.
1:02:51 Speaker 01 It was electric. It was everything.
1:02:53 Alex Cooper? Levity.
1:02:54 Speaker 01 Yeah, it was super fun.
1:02:55 Alex Cooper? Okay.
1:02:56 Speaker 01 It was like very like, like natural.
1:03:01 Speaker 01 Like bring yourself to it, like, like.
1:03:06 Speaker 01 True, true. It was very like truthful and natural type of acting, which was very cool. So it's like you could do that everywhere, but Tell Me Lies was very like a lot of precision and, and we're telling this story. And it was like a, it was a very different, like artistic, very like different thing.
1:03:23 Alex Cooper? Amazing.
1:03:23 Speaker 01 And it was great. It was, you know.
1:03:25 Alex Cooper? I think that's needed. I saw Grace on a red carpet being like, I think I need to play some like lighter roles. Like from like Lucy and Amanda Knox. I was like, girl, you deserve to like get in the car.
1:03:34 Speaker 01 Jail. She needs to, she needs to go do some.
1:03:37 Alex Cooper? She needs reprieve.
1:03:38 Speaker 01 Yes, she does. And she's the funniest fucking person ever.
1:03:42 Alex Cooper? She's amazing.
1:03:43 Speaker 01 She's so funny.
1:03:44 Alex Cooper? I am so happy I got to know you because again, like I didn't know what to expect.
1:03:49 Speaker 01 I know.
1:03:50 Alex Cooper? We've seen such a large character be built and I agree. I can imagine you're like, loved that. Love what I did with that, but I'm excited for people to get to know Jackson.
1:03:59 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:04:00 Alex Cooper? Which I feel like we really did today.
1:04:02 Speaker 01 I think we got some good little slices.
1:04:05 Alex Cooper? I think if anything, there's something, um, very calming to have watched this traumatizing show. And then have you kind of like close us out. Everyone's going to have watched it. They're going to wake up in the morning on Wednesday and they're going to be like, oh my God, I'm about to tune in this little piece of shit. Oh my God, he rode off into the sunset. And then we're going to hear from you and you're going to be like, hey guys, I'm Jackson, like.
1:04:29 Speaker 01 Life was hard and, and I, yeah, like.
1:04:31 Alex Cooper? And I'm here and I'm just hoping to, you know, have a good career.
1:04:35 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, that's, that's what I hope.
1:04:38 Alex Cooper? That's what I hope. I hope that too. And I can feel they're going to take that.
1:04:42 Speaker 01 Yeah, good.
1:04:43 Alex Cooper? Jackson, thank you so much for coming on Call Her Daddy.
1:04:47 Speaker 01 Thank you for having me.
1:04:47 Alex Cooper? This was really lovely.
1:04:48 Speaker 01 I had a really good time.
1:04:50 Alex Cooper? Me too.
1:04:51 Speaker 01 Thank you.
1:05:06 Alex Cooper? Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Ross. Fall is about finding pieces you love, making them your own and creating looks and spaces just right for the season. Whether you're updating a small apartment or a spacious home, drawn to timeless neutrals or bold seasonal touches. Ross makes it easy to imagine what's next and bring your fall vision to life. Ross. Makes fashion accessible to all with up to 20 to 60% off other retailers' prices on the brands you love. Find your nearest Ross at rawstores.com. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Klaviyo. So Klaviyo says it's your brand's best friend. Both claim, but here's the thing. Klaviyo knows your brand, your tone, your customers,
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1:06:32 Alex Cooper? gives you a gift that is actually meaningful, you appreciate it so much more. And that's what I do love about Pandora. They have so many pieces that you can really just make your own, from festive charms to personalized engravings and jewelry that can represent the people and the moments that mean the most to you. So whether you're shopping for your partner or your mom, your best friend, you can find something that really is specific to them. Maybe it's a charm that makes you think of the trip that you guys took together once, or maybe it's an engraving for your anniversary, or just a piece that feels like them the second you see it. Pandora makes it so easy to give a gift that feels thoughtful and personal,
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