Hilary Duff: Life & Love After Lizzie

Join Alex in the studio for an interview with Hilary Duff. Hilary discusses on and off relationships, trying to do it all as a mom, and how to maintain intimacy in long-term relationships. She also sets the record straight on some of the most iconic 2000’s moments and reflects on her Disney Channel days. Enjoy!

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Alex Cooper?

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• 1:23Alex Cooper?

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• 2:04Alex Cooper?

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• 2:15Alex Cooper?

  What is up, daddy gang? It is your founding Father Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy.

• 2:24Alex Cooper?

  Hilary Duff, welcome to Call Her Daddy.

• 2:25Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 2:27Alex Cooper?

  You've been busy.

• 2:28Speaker 01

  I know.

• 2:28Alex Cooper?

  Girl.

• 2:29Speaker 01

  I know.

• 2:30Alex Cooper?

  You have been busy.

• 2:31Speaker 01

  I know.

• 2:32Alex Cooper?

  You're on tour. You have an album coming out for the first time in 10 years.

• 2:36Speaker 01

  I feel like my friends are really sick of me actually on their feed. They're like, we don't ever see you. And now we do our like Instagram is just full of you.

• 2:44Alex Cooper?

  New York, the internet is Hilary Duff right now. Every single time I open Instagram, TikTok, anything, I'm like, okay, Hillary.

• 2:51Speaker 01

  You're like, I get it. She's back. I get it.

• 2:54Alex Cooper?

  How are you feeling about it, though?

• 2:58Speaker 01

  Honestly, I'm enjoying it a lot and I couldn't have asked for like a better welcome, you know? Like, everything has feel like felt so like celebratory and like kind and like, like, energized. Like, I just, I that's just like the word that I keep coming back to where I'm like, wow, I really didn't realize it was such an appetite. And like, I'm, you never know how it's gonna go. Like, I really took a huge break and the,

• 3:32Speaker 01

  the like first steps have been like a dream. So, but it's super hard and like the back half that's not shiny is like a lot of moving parts and a lot of scheduling and a lot of work and a lot of like, you know, I have four kids and a family that I really like being with, so.

• 3:51Alex Cooper?

  That's what I'm so excited to talk to you about today because I think there's probably so many women who are like, we know we can't technically do it all, but it really looks like you're literally doing it all. Also, I thought it was funny. I was researching this morning and everyone's kind of calling this like the Hilary Duff Renaissance. Like every, they're like, she's back. In what ways for you has this kind of felt like a rebirth or like a reintroduction of you?

• 4:17Speaker 01

  It's this like combination of like forever, my husband and I were just like, this is gonna be a sick victory lap. And we kind of kept calling it that. And.

• 4:32Speaker 01

  It's really cool to be at this stage of my life and just have ownership over myself and like what I feel about things and my opinion and what I will and won't do and like not knowing and having to ask and like just this whole like I'm just so much better and like clearer and like to get to have the the opportunity to go back and like celebrate things that you know, I didn't feel like were mine anymore. Is like, I'm just really looking forward to it.

• 5:11Alex Cooper?

  Can you explain a little bit more about what you mean by like you didn't feel like they were yours anymore?

• 5:18Speaker 01

  That it's it's kind of seems heavier than it is, but even like thinking about what my my setlist is going to look like and what songs I'm going to be comfortable putting on, you know, actually doing with my body on stage and or like singing lyrics of songs that are 20 years old and being like, what is, how do I how do I show up and like just make this me? And I think before rehearsals, it felt like those weren't quite mine yet, and I didn't know how to make them that way. And then I was like, just started tearing it up. And I was like, got it. I'm here to eat and like,

• 5:58Speaker 01

  it's easy and I feel far enough removed from it that I'm not like embarrassed or

• 6:07Speaker 01

  uncomfortable like it, they're mine and they're mine to keep. And like even the with love dance like that was like a like the internet lore around the with love dance.

• 6:18Alex Cooper?

  So good.

• 6:18Speaker 01

  So good, but like for me horrifying, like absolutely horrifying. But like now I'm like, this is I get to be a part of it and it's way more fun.

• 6:28Alex Cooper?

  Which I think is life. Like I've interviewed so many people that were child stars and it feels like a pretty prominent theme in a lot of your lives is like having enough distance from that really, really loud time in your life that everyone remembers you from.

• 6:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, or just that everyone can dig up.

• 6:46Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 6:47Speaker 01

  Like, well, I would, I would love for like, it's just, it's a hard, you gotta be tough. You know, because that is to grow up and have everybody to like recall all of your all of your like chapters is a wild experience.

• 7:04Alex Cooper?

  And have footage and pictures and commentary. Tabloids, like everything you could imagine that like everyone when they were in their awkward middle school phase that were like, thank God, like I didn't post that picture. You're like, well, it was posted of me. I didn't have an option.

• 7:18Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 7:19Alex Cooper?

  And I feel like what's so underrated is like you have had decades of sustaining a career, which is very few people are able to maintain that.

• 7:30Speaker 01

  I feel like that's really nice. And there's been a lot of highs and lows in my career.

• 7:34Alex Cooper?

  Okay. Well, we're going to go through all them, but I did want to just, I was going to quote you because I'm like, I get it. Like you've done moments where you're kind of like more in the spotlight versus not, but you told Vogue last year that you operate from a place of, does anyone still care about me? I wanted you to talk a little bit more about what you meant by that.

• 7:53Speaker 01

  I think there being a child actor and doing something that made such a big mark on people's like literal soul, um, created a lot of confusion and like a pretty big battle scar on me where I'm like, do people feel that like playing a role on TV that never grows up? Like she's just there forever. Right? And so getting into my like late teenhood into like my early twenties and even like early thirties where I feel like the battle of like frustration that like, do people love me or do they love that character? But

• 8:38Speaker 01

  yet everywhere I go, people, you know, say, you raised me or like whatever. And like, now I'm like confident enough and like fine enough. And I think I.

• 8:51Speaker 01

  Love my new work enough to where I can like celebrate the old. Um, you just feel like, wow, will I ever do anything that will like resonate with someone the same? And then you carry that as like a, you're not good enough, or it wasn't. You know, but meanwhile, like I've had an amazing career, like younger was career highlight.

• 9:13Alex Cooper?

  Love that show.

• 9:14Speaker 01

  Love that show. So fun.

• 9:16Alex Cooper?

  So good.

• 9:17Speaker 01

  People didn't really find it until it was like done. But like, that was a huge part of my, something that I said yes to that was really scary because I had to like be in New York and be away from my child and like, but like a huge growth period for me of like, oh, I'm doing something good and like, stop measuring. Like I don't have to continue to measure all of my projects and the success that they've had.

• 9:41Alex Cooper?

  It's interesting you say that because I feel like some musicians I've talked to, if they had a number one hit ever come out, then they're like, shit. Because you come out of the gate so strong, which a lot of people are envious of, but you're like, but now that's kind of the barometer of like where I have to hit. And having a Lizzie McGuire moment, you're like, changed your life, changed so many other people's lives. But now it's like, I hear what you're saying. You're like, can I ever live up to that?

• 10:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:06Alex Cooper?

  Which is why I think this era is so exciting for your fans.

• 10:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:19Alex Cooper?

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• 10:59Alex Cooper?

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• 11:42Alex Cooper?

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• 13:54Alex Cooper?

  That's Shopify.com/daddy. Basically today, I'm like, we need to give a little nostalgia.

• 14:00Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 14:01Alex Cooper?

  Um, and then though I do really today want to get to know you more as the woman Hillary Duff, because I agree you've talked so much about your younger years.

• 14:11Speaker 01

  I love to visit her now. I'm, I'm good with it.

• 14:13Alex Cooper?

  Okay, let's go back to people who may not be familiar. You initially get the role of Lizzie McGuire. Can you just like kind of lightly tell the story of how that audition went and how you even got the role?

• 14:24Speaker 01

  Yes, so I actually had been replaced off of a TV show that was an ABC show.

• 14:31Speaker 01

  And they replaced me with twins so they could like work longer hours. And I was like, yeah, I was probably 10 years old and I'm like, I got fired, like, can you imagine?

• 14:44Alex Cooper?

  Cause they're not two of you.

• 14:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:47Alex Cooper?

  That is.

• 14:48Speaker 01

  By the way, when you're a child actor, you're like, you need two of me? Okay, how do I make that work? Like, you're like a dog, like, just wanna please, you know? So that was really devastating and I was like, I wanna go home. I don't wanna be in LA anymore. I went back to Texas, started going to real school. And my mom called me and she was like, they wanna see you for Lizzie McGuire. And I, I had auditioned for a bunch of Disney Channel shows before. So they were like familiar with me and called me a lot. I never booked any of them.

• 15:15Speaker 01

  And I was like, no, whatever. And somehow I got out to California. They, like, I changed my mind. I, I got to see my friends for the weekend, like my Oakwood apartment LA friends. And I was not prepared. It was a pretty big monologue, the, the audition.

• 15:31Speaker 01

  And I.

• 15:34Speaker 01

  Used to be pretty prepared and take auditions seriously. And I was like zero percent prepared and Robin Lippens, the casting director was like, you didn't even look at this. And I was like,

• 15:49Speaker 01

  correct.

• 15:50Alex Cooper?

  You're like, sorry.

• 15:51Speaker 01

  She's like, can you come back tomorrow and know this? And I was like, oh, challenge accepted. Let's go. And I worked on it, came back ripped in there.

• 16:03Alex Cooper?

  As you should.

• 16:04Speaker 01

  She was like, what are your special talents? I was like, oh, I prefer to walk on my hands more than my feet. Like, I think I was just wacky and they were, and like, I think I came in with like mismatched clothing because that was very me. And then I got it.

• 16:18Alex Cooper?

  Wait, and how old were you when this was happening?

• 16:19Speaker 01

  I think I must have been like 11, turning 12, or had just turned 12. And then we shot the pilot and then didn't shoot for a while. So I remember like not getting my hopes up. I remember my mom being like, don't get your hopes up. Remember like what can happen? Like, it's exciting. We're gonna be excited, but like.

• 16:37Alex Cooper?

  Not getting fired at like 10 years old from a job at first, like that'll scar you. You're like.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  Or being the star of the TV show. The TV show is literally called Lizzie McGuire. And you're like, hope it gets picked up. And if it doesn't, like.

• 16:48Alex Cooper?

  I'm a failure.

• 16:48Speaker 01

  Probably I sucked. Yeah.

• 16:50Alex Cooper?

  Oh, yeah, like no pressure as an 11 year old, basically 12. How do you think playing Lizzie as it continued, like started to kind of shape and inform your personality?

• 17:02Speaker 01

  I think that she was kind of like the everybody's girl. And I also feel like I've always been that. So,

• 17:14Speaker 01

  and also like a little, I have this very weird mixture of like, I'm always been confident in who I am. And I think that she had that, but she was also like, kind of dorky and had all these, she didn't really fit under one category. And, you know, that's why I think she was so like lovable and, and endearing. And I feel like I've also still kind of carry that, but I just can like dress chic sometimes.

• 17:44Alex Cooper?

  You're like, my fashion has gotten better. Thank you very much. Lovely. You, Lizzie, but I moved on. Okay, you can say over there, I actually look chic as fuck. You do. Um, obviously, I'm thinking about you even just being like, oh, my God, like, growing up in Texas and all of this. Like, then the show becomes a massive success. And you quickly become one of the most famous young women in the world at the time. Like, do you have any core memories of realizing, like, oh, my God, I'm now, like, famous? Like, people know me.

• 18:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was at the Fashion Square Mall, like, about to hang out with my friends, which we did all the time. And there were Beverly Center, too. There was, like, posters of Lizzie McGuire on the, like, circulating things. And I get, like, mobbed by kids. And, like, somebody that works at the mall, like, sticks me in, basically, like, like, a cleaning closet or, like, some, some, like, closet where they keep supplies or, like, and just, like, pulls me into the back and they're like, you need to call your mom. Or call someone to come and pick you up.

• 18:48Alex Cooper?

  Hey, Mom, um, we forgot that, like, I'm basically famous now.

• 18:51Speaker 01

  I'm in the broom closet of the mall. Like, can you come get me?

• 18:53Alex Cooper?

  I'm trying to act like a normal girl and it's not working out for shit.

• 18:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:57Alex Cooper?

  Wow.

• 18:58Speaker 01

  I know.

• 18:58Alex Cooper?

  And then after that, did you realize, like, maybe I can't go those types of places?

• 19:03Speaker 01

  The other thing that was happening was, like, it wasn't that cool to be a Disney kid yet. Like, now you're a Disney kid and you have, like, this massive career. That wasn't really, it's not like you have, like, mad respect because you had a Disney Channel show and you were, like, starting to be a singer. Like, that was pre-everything.

• 19:20Alex Cooper?

  Um, talk to me about your life at home. You become this big star. Like, how did it impact your normal life at home?

• 19:28Speaker 01

  Honestly, it didn't until later. Like, some things changed later, but like, but my mom was pretty strict.

• 19:40Speaker 01

  She she had this like weird combination of like she trusted us. But she was like, you don't get special treatment because you're on a TV show. You know, like we had been, we had been out here kicking around for like four years pre. Me getting Lucy McGuire. Um, so like. She would, I remember she would like take myself later when I was like 18, I remember she tried to take my cellphone away and I like sass her so bad and I was like, I pay the bill. She was like, absolutely not. She's like, sit down. You're like, okay. Yeah.

• 20:12Alex Cooper?

  I feel like there's kind of like this known reputation you have as one of the few child stars who. Escaped the major pitfalls of Hollywood. Do you feel that way? Like, do you feel like you got out pretty unscathed?

• 20:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that. There's no.

• 20:34Speaker 01

  I think that people look at me and think like, oh, she's had it easy, maybe. And I definitely have not had it easy. Um, but I.

• 20:46Speaker 01

  Feel okay. Like, I really just feel okay. I'm like, I did not. Like, go crazy, I guess. Um.

• 20:57Speaker 01

  And I think that a lot of that could have to do with my upbringing and feeling, you know, like I was protected when I was a child. Um. But this industry is like really fucking hard. And it's not until you're like, you take some space away from it that you can zoom in and be like, oh, that was a weird thing that happened. Oh, that was.

• 21:19Speaker 01

  How did I get through that? That, you know, there's, there's that. And I, I think it's taken getting to this age to be like. Give myself like actually take some credit for how I navigated it.

• 21:30Alex Cooper?

  What do you think for you internally? Like, not all the noise, not all the people around you. What internally did you have to tap into to kind of get through that period in your life?

• 21:42Speaker 01

  So it's tricky. And again, it's been something that I've been able to like dive more into through like therapy and.

• 21:50Speaker 01

  Really being like, well, why did I do that? Or how come I feel this way? And if I whatever like the thing that was also cool about it is being a teenager. And you're like, I don't give a fuck. I just want to hang out with my friends. Um, you know, like I had a desire to just be like normal and be doing normal kid things or teenager things and adult things. So, um, it was this weird, those things were like existing at the same time. And I think it was like a reprieve from

• 22:26Speaker 01

  not being able to like fully grow up or take the reins was like just escaping with the normal part of my life that I could go to.

• 22:33Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, that makes sense. You kind of have to like find your outlet.

• 22:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I like, you know, cared about my boyfriend and just like, all that other stuff was

• 22:46Speaker 01

  annoying to me.

• 22:47Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. And then eventually you would deal with it.

• 22:50Speaker 01

  I did.

• 22:51Alex Cooper?

  Um, okay, let's go through, we're about to move on from this younger phase of your life, but I do need to know a couple of things.

• 22:58Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 22:58Alex Cooper?

  Are you ready? Okay, you're like, I don't know. What are you about to ask me? Okay. Did you intentionally crash the Freaky Friday premiere?

• 23:09Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 23:12Alex Cooper?

  The lore around this, Hillary?

• 23:16Speaker 01

  Um, I think absolutely yes. Yeah, I was a teenager.

• 23:21Alex Cooper?

  Wait, were you surprised when Lindsay Lohan showed up to the Cheaper By the Dozen premiere?

• 23:26Speaker 01

  No.

• 23:28Speaker 01

  No. I mean, that was like my childhood feud, like, like Nemesis.

• 23:33Alex Cooper?

  So crazy.

• 23:34Speaker 01

  I know.

• 23:35Alex Cooper?

  So you

• 23:36Speaker 01

  I mean, I can't wait. I'm sure my publicist will be like, what the fuck are you doing?

• 23:41Speaker 01

  But now it's so many years later, like, who cares? It does not matter. Also, like, Lindsay came up to me at a club once and was like, are we good? And I was like, we're good. She was like, let's take a shot. I was like, okay.

• 23:52Alex Cooper?

  It was amazing.

• 23:53Speaker 01

  But also, like, Chad Michael Murray invited me. Why would he? I don't want to start any more stuff, but like, he was like, you should come with me. And I was like, mhm, probably I should.

• 24:06Alex Cooper?

  Honestly.

• 24:07Speaker 01

  I mean, what was I, like, six? No, I think I was younger than that.

• 24:10Alex Cooper?

  The millennial girls are screaming at their TVs right now. Next, is it true that you had military training for your role in Cadet Kelly?

• 24:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 24:19Alex Cooper?

  They really took it that serious?

• 24:21Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 24:22Alex Cooper?

  I just need you to know that I literally bought a box.

• 24:24Speaker 01

  I think I could still do, like, a rifle thing. You got a rifle around here?

• 24:27Alex Cooper?

  Oh, no.

• 24:29Alex Cooper?

  You remember.

• 24:30Speaker 01

  I think I would remember some of the, like, tap, tap, how you, like, handle it and, like, flip it around. And it was basically like baton, kind of, but with, well, there was baton ribbon in that, right? Oh, yeah.

• 24:41Alex Cooper?

  Oh, I remember.

• 24:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, we were at a dance studio in Toronto, I remember. And, like, Christy Carlson Romano and I would, like, walk from this hotel that they've put all the, like, actor kids up in, in Toronto, and go to this, like, dance studio down the street. And it was really intense.

• 24:58Alex Cooper?

  That movie was so good.

• 24:59Speaker 01

  We were doing our own stunts, girl.

• 25:01Alex Cooper?

  It was so good. I remember I, like, bought cargo pants and, like, was trying to be like that vibe. And I was like, what am I trying to do? Like, I was in Pennsylvania, like, literally trying to be you. And I was like, I need to stop. Um, okay, next. This is one of my favorites. You had an on-screen romance with Penn Badgley in Gossip Girl. I will never forget where I was when I found out Miss Hilary Duff was going to be in season three of Gossip Girl. I was shook.

• 25:27Speaker 01

  Was it season three?

• 25:27Alex Cooper?

  Season three. I know, I looked up because I forgot there was, like, 90 episodes per season. How were you approached for the role? And like, why did you want to do it?

• 25:36Speaker 01

  I was approached by the creators of the show and they were just like, we would love to have you on Gossip Girl. And I was like, I love Gossip Girl. And yes. And by the way, I grew up with Penn Badgley.

• 25:49Alex Cooper?

  You did?

• 25:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I grew up with this like apartment complex called Oakwood Apartments and he was a Lakeside kid. But sometimes we would like all hang out. It'd be like if you went to Campbell Hall, but someone goes to Oakwood and you like all.

• 26:01Alex Cooper?

  And was this like little actor vibes or just like normal kids and you just happen to know him?

• 26:05Speaker 01

  Some kids were normal. Most of them were actors.

• 26:07Alex Cooper?

  Okay. So you were like, you knew him immediately when you stepped on set?

• 26:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, but honestly, that was a tough. I think they were kind of all sick of each other by the time I got there. It wasn't like, oh my God, we're hanging. It's fun. I was like, oh, I'm showing up to a job and.

• 26:23Alex Cooper?

  Right. You're like, tension is pretty high right now.

• 26:26Speaker 01

  It felt pretty high. Yeah.

• 26:27Alex Cooper?

  We need to talk about the threesome that shocked the world because when I tell you that threesome, I was like, to those who don't remember, it was Dan, Vanessa and you.

• 26:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:39Alex Cooper?

  And the world was so pissed. Do you remember the world got really pissed?

• 26:42Speaker 01

  No.

• 26:43Alex Cooper?

  Because they were trying to force the Dan and Vanessa romantic vibe. And we were like, stop trying to make it happen. It never should happen.

• 26:49Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 26:50Alex Cooper?

  And then I think you were in the threesome, like hanging out in the corner and Dan wasn't like, he was going for Vanessa more.

• 26:56Speaker 01

  I need to rewatch this scene.

• 26:57Alex Cooper?

  I was gonna say, do you know, can you tell I've watched this like a million times?

• 27:00Speaker 01

  Amazing. I was getting like the, the shaft in the corner.

• 27:03Alex Cooper?

  Because it was like Dan and Vanessa like finding their romance. And you were like, Dan, like, why am I even here?

• 27:08Speaker 01

  You're like, I'm the famous one. Wasn't I like a famous actress?

• 27:11Alex Cooper?

  You were a famous girl in it.

• 27:13Speaker 01

  But I have to tell you something funny that happened. And sometimes this happens when I'm in Europe. And like Lizzie McGuire happened later after my music in like Europe.

• 27:23Alex Cooper?

  Oh.

• 27:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. And so I wasn't like totally known for Lizzie McGuire there right away.

• 27:28Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 27:28Speaker 01

  It was more like my music stuff. And then some people, I think Lizzie McGuire got huge there eventually, whatever. I was in Paris not too long ago on a girl's trip with two of my best friends and my bag didn't make it. And the girl at the airport was like. Are you from Gossip Girl? And I'm like, yeah. And I get obsessed when things like that happen. So sometimes like weird Gossip Girl fanatics.

• 27:56Alex Cooper?

  Wait, that's so good.

• 27:58Speaker 01

  Isn't that funny?

• 27:58Alex Cooper?

  You must be so happy in that moment. You're like, yes, I am from Gossip Girl. I don't remember what my name was. I don't remember what my lines were, what my scenes were, but I was there.

• 28:07Speaker 01

  I don't remember what my name was.

• 28:08Alex Cooper?

  Oh, that's so fun. Dude, that fandom is so crazy.

• 28:11Speaker 01

  I know. I was like, so can you get me my bag quickly?

• 28:13Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, cuz I was like in Gossip Girl. They're like, is that Lizzie McGuire? You're like, no.

• 28:18Speaker 01

  No.

• 28:18Alex Cooper?

  Gossip Girl. Honestly, so good. Um, okay. I heard that the actor who played Ethan Kraft invited you to his high school formal in real life. Did you go?

• 28:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:30Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 28:30Speaker 01

  I went to a lot of high school formals.

• 28:33Alex Cooper?

  And at that point, you're famous.

• 28:35Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 28:35Alex Cooper?

  How did that work?

• 28:37Speaker 01

  The school was really excited that I was there and I was just like, yeah, I'm excited to be here. I didn't go to high school or middle school.

• 28:45Alex Cooper?

  You're like, I'm taking it in.

• 28:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm like, look at all these people grinding on the dance floor. Me too. Let's go.

• 28:50Alex Cooper?

  Did people leave you alone?

• 28:53Speaker 01

  Like, I think enough.

• 28:54Alex Cooper?

  And also you going with the Ethan Kraft character is kind of a mindfuck because people were probably like-

• 28:58Speaker 01

  We went as like a group.

• 29:00Alex Cooper?

  Okay, so it wasn't like-

• 29:01Speaker 01

  No.

• 29:02Alex Cooper?

  Okay. And did you guys ever have a thing behind the scenes? Okay, no.

• 29:05Speaker 01

  No.

• 29:05Alex Cooper?

  Ethan wasn't your vibe?

• 29:06Speaker 01

  But he did have a parrot that scared me at his house. Like,

• 29:09Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 29:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I showed up to the house and like, I didn't know that I was like standing behind a giant birdcage and the parrot like literally punked me and was like, boo. And I was like, oh my God. And like, the parrot like knew how to like scare.

• 29:21Alex Cooper?

  Ethan. Good old Ethan. I only, I'm like Ethan, Ethan and Kate. Okay. Um, were you and Aaron Carter already dating before his cameo on Lizzie McGuire? Or did that like bud on that set?

• 29:34Speaker 01

  We weren't dating.

• 29:38Speaker 01

  Also, this is where like all this stuff started. There was no social media to be like, who was dating who, right?

• 29:44Alex Cooper?

  Oh, God. Yeah, yeah, no, no.

• 29:45Speaker 01

  So you just take people's word for it and then like people get mad at you.

• 29:48Alex Cooper?

  Wait, why?

• 29:50Speaker 01

  I mean, if you're like Lindsay Lohan or me and he's like probably dating both of us, like, you know what I mean?

• 29:55Alex Cooper?

  Oh, I see, I see. Like, you couldn't just put up an Instagram story.

• 29:59Speaker 01

  No.

• 30:00Alex Cooper?

  Well, we're clarifying now.

• 30:01Speaker 01

  Also, texting was like pushing three buttons.

• 30:03Alex Cooper?

  T nine.

• 30:04Speaker 01

  To get the, like, yeah.

• 30:06Alex Cooper?

  Oh, my God, you and Cinderella story, like, hey, what's up today?

• 30:09Speaker 01

  So I just filmed like a social, like, one of the...

• 30:13Alex Cooper?

  Like a TikTok?

• 30:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, of that, doing something for something else. And I'm, we're sitting there trying to get the LOL to come up. And I'm like swiping at the screen. And then someone was like, you need to stop doing that. It's what? This like old phone cellphone?

• 30:27Alex Cooper?

  To get LOL, you have to be like, one, two, three, one, two, three, four. But it's so crazy.

• 30:31Speaker 01

  I called my son downstairs who's 13 and I was like, I just want you to watch what this used to be like for us.

• 30:37Alex Cooper?

  He's like, I don't care.

• 30:38Speaker 01

  He's actually so sweet and he, if he doesn't care, he acts like he does.

• 30:43Alex Cooper?

  You're like, look what mommy had to do. That means like, we were dedicated. If you had a text that you wanted to send on T nine.

• 30:48Speaker 01

  I know.

• 30:49Alex Cooper?

  If you sent a paragraph, you were in love with someone.

• 30:52Speaker 01

  No, I know. It was like, that was a lot of effort.

• 30:54Alex Cooper?

  That was a lot.

• 30:54Speaker 01

  And what about when you would make a typo and like have to go?

• 30:57Alex Cooper?

  And then you have to go back and the whole thing. No, no, no, no. It was dedication through and through.

• 31:01Speaker 01

  Okay, so sorry, back to Aaron Carter. I had met him at his birthday party. I got invited to his birthday party. I'm telling you, the Olsen twins were there.

• 31:11Speaker 01

  Who else would have been there? I thought it was gonna be like this huge list I could get you excited by.

• 31:14Alex Cooper?

  You're like...

• 31:16Speaker 01

  But it was the Olsen twins.

• 31:17Alex Cooper?

  Okay, yeah, so that's all that matters. We're like happy.

• 31:19Speaker 01

  Um, maybe Amanda Bynes was there.

• 31:22Alex Cooper?

  Oh.

• 31:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it was like...

• 31:24Alex Cooper?

  The OGs. Oh, my God.

• 31:26Speaker 01

  At his birthday. So I met him there. There was like some cute sparks. And then I think I pitched the idea of having him come on the show. And then, right, we started dating pretty soon after that.

• 31:38Alex Cooper?

  I need everyone to go re-watch, because I just did it this morning while I was putting my makeup on. The I want candy moment, where you and Miranda are in the corner.

• 31:48Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 31:48Alex Cooper?

  And you keep doing this thing where you're like putting your hand in your hair.

• 31:51Speaker 01

  Why?

• 31:52Alex Cooper?

  You know, it's so good, because you can tell you like, kind of like him. And he's like, I want candy.

• 31:57Speaker 01

  In a full silver jumpsuit?

• 31:58Alex Cooper?

  Full silver jumpsuit. Your hair is like, and then your hair is all curled up.

• 32:01Speaker 01

  Crimped.

• 32:02Alex Cooper?

  Crimped. And you keep going like this when he comes over to you.

• 32:06Alex Cooper?

  Hillary, it's actually, it's like an actual landmark on the internet. Like, I need everyone to go watch it because it's so cinematic also. It like holds up. It was amazing. Okay, good to know. Okay, last, last one. Lizzie McGuire movie. It's important that you know, like, to this day, peak cinema, peak cinema. Like, also back to you getting fired for not being a twin. Hi, hello, you got your revenge because you ended up playing two characters.

• 32:35Speaker 01

  Yes, my four-year-old is very like, how, but how? How did you do that? I'm like.

• 32:40Alex Cooper?

  You're like, don't worry. Okay, wait, so have they seen the movie?

• 32:44Speaker 01

  Yes, my four-year-old just watched it on a plane. I know, and when it was over, she just goes, I, she was sitting next to my assistant, and she was like, again.

• 32:54Alex Cooper?

  No. All of us, she's literally all of us, again. Do your other kids like the movie?

• 33:01Speaker 01

  Um, Banks is like a Lindsay Lohan stan.

• 33:07Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 33:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. No, honestly, Banks is like my number one, like cheerleader to the max. So like, she obviously like doesn't know any of that stuff. I know, so it's.

• 33:18Alex Cooper?

  It's actually amazing.

• 33:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:19Alex Cooper?

  Um, what is their favorite project of yours?

• 33:22Speaker 01

  I've not asked that. I don't know.

• 33:24Alex Cooper?

  You don't know?

• 33:25Speaker 01

  No.

• 33:25Alex Cooper?

  Have you showed them everything?

• 33:27Speaker 01

  No, I'm not like, let's go down, sit, everybody sit down.

• 33:31Alex Cooper?

  I forget, I forget that it's like not cool of a mom to be like, now let's watch my next project. But for me, I'm like, they haven't seen Cheaper by the Dozen?

• 33:38Speaker 01

  I think Luca probably has seen Cheaper by the Dozen. I think he was probably more interested in that because it was like boys and frogs and like football and, you know, things like that. But, um, they've seen some of it. Um, my same assistant put on like bunked the other day.

• 33:57Speaker 01

  I know. And I was like, you should probably be putting on Lizzy McGuire.

• 34:00Alex Cooper?

  She's like, what are you doing? You're like, you're a traitor. What is this? Turn on Cinderella Story now. Oh, wow. Okay. Well, we need to know when they actually.

• 34:08Speaker 01

  My four year old has seen parts of Cinderella Story and she's basically like, can we just get to the end with the dress? And she doesn't understand the mask and how he didn't recognize me with that mask on. I know.

• 34:18Alex Cooper?

  He's like, that's you, mommy. And you're like.

• 34:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. She's like, but how would he not know? And I was like, no, I know. That's the age old question, babe.

• 34:24Alex Cooper?

  That's the best part. That's the best part of the whole thing. Um, okay. Thank you for going down memory lane with me. That was very fun. You gave us all we needed to know.

• 34:41Alex Cooper?

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• 35:23Alex Cooper?

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• 36:04Alex Cooper?

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• 36:27Alex Cooper?

  I mean, you started working so young. You were like 11 years old and you lived so much life at such a young age. How did that impact what you were looking for and what you were ready for in your twenties?

• 36:41Speaker 01

  Oh, gosh, I was.

• 36:44Speaker 01

  I was always like a relationship girl. So I was in like long-term relationships my whole life, really. Dating was not easy for me. And so around that time, I met Mike. I met my first husband and we had so much fun. And that just felt like

• 37:09Speaker 01

  a really solid, like,

• 37:13Speaker 01

  place to land, you know?

• 37:15Alex Cooper?

  Because you were 22 when you first got married.

• 37:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I was like 19 when we met and we got married really young. And then I had Luca so young. And I think I was like, very, I always knew I was gonna be a young mom. I always wanted to be a mom. I always wanted a lot of kids. So that was really,

• 37:37Speaker 01

  it was major. I mean, that was a crazy time, like to be 20, like pregnant at 23, 24.

• 37:44Alex Cooper?

  How did you know you were ready for that with your career?

• 37:48Speaker 01

  I didn't care about my career at that point. Mike was playing hockey. I was like going to live with him for like months at a time wherever he would play. And we were just like having fun and I didn't really care that much about my career.

• 38:03Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. Having been so young and lived so much life, like, what did it mean to you when you had a child? Like, what, like, when you had Luca, like, did it change everything for you?

• 38:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. Big time.

• 38:19Speaker 01

  I was so excited to have him to focus on. Um. My life had been like so about me and like I didn't want all of that. I wanted, I think, just something that felt like tangibly mine to hold on to and to focus on. And um, yeah, it was really fun. It was also really confusing. I had not a single friend who had a baby or was pregnant because obviously I was so young. My friends were like, are you a serious teen mom? What are you doing?

• 38:50Alex Cooper?

  Wait, can you talk about that? Cause I think that's like very relatable where a lot of my audience is either the girl that is having the baby that none of their friends are at that stage or the reverse where all their friends are having kids and they're not like, how did that impact your friendships?

• 39:07Speaker 01

  Well, my friends were all going out and stuff and I was like, I'm not doing that anymore. Yeah. Um, and that was kind of hard, but I didn't really care about that as much. It was just,

• 39:21Speaker 01

  um, I think all the physical changes were a big deal for me. Um,

• 39:30Speaker 01

  I think I gained like 50 pounds. I was pregnant with him and I'm five two. So that was like a wild,

• 39:38Speaker 01

  just like, oh my God, what has happened to me? Um, but I'm trying to think, one of my best friends, we've been friends for 20 years now. I remember she walked into my door late and I was like, I think you expect everyone to get it. When you have a baby and no one gets it. And you're like this major, like all of a sudden I'm on a schedule and like, if you don't know what it's like to be on a schedule because you don't have like a family yet.

• 40:10Speaker 01

  Twenty minutes late. I'm like, this isn't like us a year ago. This is me now where like my be like I like nursing a baby is not just like, oh, you're like, my milk's coming in and I've got to get like, get this out. You know what I mean? And then the baby goes on for a nap. And if that doesn't happen, I get not a single minute to my day. You know what I mean? So like, looking forward to seeing your friend and then them being late. You're like, it's over. We can't hang. And and then also the nerves of like now, I would be like, come, it's all good.

• 40:43Alex Cooper?

  But you're it's your first kid.

• 40:44Speaker 01

  Your first kid.

• 40:45Alex Cooper?

  You didn't know what you were doing.

• 40:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're just nervous. So my friend, sorry, the the part of the story was that my friend, like, watched me like nurse my baby. My boobs were like huge and you're, you know, it's all like clunky and new and whatever. And she texts me and she was like, I don't even, it's crazy to not recognize you. And I was like,

• 41:06Alex Cooper?

  Oh, my God.

• 41:07Speaker 01

  I know. And later I was like, you hurt my feelings so much by saying that. But I know you didn't mean it. Like, it must look insane, right? Like, I'm like nursing a baby and

• 41:17Speaker 01

  we've like grown up together and now this like crazy thing happened.

• 41:19Alex Cooper?

  It feels like you're like a new person to her. And really, all you probably needed that moment is to feel like

• 41:25Speaker 01

  We could just like eat a salad and have a hang.

• 41:27Alex Cooper?

  Yes. And like not feel like you're this outsider because everyone in your life is still.

• 41:31Speaker 01

  I want to hear who you just hooked up with. And I wanted like things to be normal, but nothing's normal.

• 41:36Alex Cooper?

  Can you also share a little bit more about like how your body image was affected by pregnancy? Because I think that's like, I have never had a kid and I do, I would love to have kids at one point, but I think for women, it's so hard because it's like you're expected to be everything for everyone. And you go through this like extreme change in your life. And women, then it's like the bounce back thing. And what do you look like? Like, how did you manage all of that?

• 42:05Speaker 01

  I don't know because I dealt with a lot of.

• 42:10Speaker 01

  I I remember being. I think in Mexico with my mom or something um like four months after I had Luca and we had like a private home there that we were staying at and a paparazzi got a picture. And they were like Hillary debuts post baby bod and I was like babe, I'm not debuting anything. You're taking a picture of me at a private house when I think I'm with my family and my baby. And like it's horrendous. So. That's like so messed up and I feel like it's getting better. And as I've. Had subsequent kids like you're just like, oh, I recognize this. I know what it is.

• 42:54Speaker 01

  It's hard to get through this phase, but it's all like.

• 43:01Speaker 01

  It's all fleeting. You know what I mean? And so.

• 43:06Speaker 01

  The more times I've done it, the less like weight it has with like dealing with your body changing and you kind of.

• 43:16Speaker 01

  I don't, you know, normal people don't have to like have the noise, but you're sensitive. It's really hard. You'd look different, you know, forever. And you're like feeding a child and you're supposed to know exactly what to do and you don't know exactly what to do. And things don't always work out.

• 43:34Speaker 01

  The way, you know, we're.

• 43:37Speaker 01

  The pressure to feel like a natural mother like is is a lot, you know?

• 43:43Alex Cooper?

  You had mentioned, I think that you um like nursing for you in the beginning was difficult. And again, like as women, if you if it doesn't go exactly as they tell you on the internet and according to plan, like sometimes there can be like shame around that. Like, how did that impact your self esteem?

• 44:01Speaker 01

  I still could cry thinking about like. Just not being able to be. You want to be everything for your kid because you grow them and you birth them and they're yours and you watch, you know, reels of like people just nursing their baby in public and it being so natural and like it just wasn't like that for me and I every time you like we would like weigh this was with towns mostly but like she wasn't gaining weight and I'm trying to like nurse her literally round the clock and that's my fourth kid like just supplement what are you doing like you know and you're just like I was so stubborn

• 44:41Speaker 01

  about it I just wanted I wanted it to work out and it didn't and like then you're two weeks out of like not nursing and you're like yes this is the best freedom ever but in that moment you're like how will I ever cope with this how will I why can't I be good at this um and you know I Luca I nursed him the most it was easier then and like down the line I just each child got less and less and less and now I'm like who cares but in in the moment it's like you're so consumed and I think by design right like we're designed to take care of our child by feeding them from your body but like guys have to do one thing one time that's what my husband says he's like I did one thing one time and like

• 45:25Speaker 01

  you have to do all of these things

• 45:27Alex Cooper?

  And then it's all on you

• 45:28Speaker 01

  Yeah

• 45:28Alex Cooper?

  Which is a lot and I even have friends I know that will be watching that are going through that phase right now that it's like it is helpful to hear from someone so many people look up to and grew up with that they're at a similar stage right now where it's like hearing other women talk about it I think is like half the battle because it is so isolating and to just hear you even say like it actually got better as I just kept going because even if it didn't actually get better I got better at handling

• 45:53Speaker 01

  Yeah

• 45:54Alex Cooper?

  How hard it was um which is life right speaking of hard things so you're in a different place than your friends you're a young mom there's scrutiny online your body you're figuring all this out And then you go through a divorce.

• 46:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:11Alex Cooper?

  And your child is.

• 46:13Speaker 01

  Not even two.

• 46:14Alex Cooper?

  Not even two. Um, without, obviously, I know you have a co-parenting dynamic and I don't want to speak at all negatively about him. Um, how did you know that it was time to walk away and that the marriage was over?

• 46:31Speaker 01

  Oh, gosh. It just got to a point where it wasn't gonna, it wasn't gonna be like we, we just. I think he was good with it because I was like, here's this, this, this, like, you know, and he was like, great, like we're. This was before conscious uncoupling was a thing.

• 46:51Speaker 01

  And my parents went through such a bad divorce that I was like.

• 46:56Speaker 01

  Calling it made it really painful. But like, we're not together anymore. So obviously it was bad enough. That it just wasn't, it wasn't working. Um, and. That was a really tough call because we had not even two year old kid. Um, and I.

• 47:18Speaker 01

  Remember. Doing everything in my power to like, have it be peaceful and have us hanging out and spending time together. And every time we would, you know, trade. It wouldn't just be like a drop off pickup situation. We would like go to the park and hang or go have a meal. Um, it was really important to me to. To do it in a way that Luca could.

• 47:44Speaker 01

  Feel like comfy. Um, I can't remember the exact time I was like, gonna call this, you know, but, um, it happened pretty fast. It was just.

• 47:56Speaker 01

  It was an, an like. You know, it was not, it wasn't working anymore.

• 48:00Alex Cooper?

  Mm hmm.

• 48:00Speaker 01

  But I remember the one thing that was really hard about it was like processing that it was happening. And it was going to happen and going through all of those emotions and it was a really. It's a really scary time to just not want to fuck up your kid. You know what I mean? You put like all of your stuff aside and I had to like deal with all of that later. To just make sure that like he was okay. And then, you know, you file for divorce and TMZ literally has like an office. At the LA courthouse. So they see every single paper that goes through. So like within. Fifty minutes they're like reporting. And then you have to like process it along the world alongside with the world, you know?

• 48:45Alex Cooper?

  I did not realize that about TMZ. That's actually insane.

• 48:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:48Alex Cooper?

  But like, when do you think and how did you do it in terms of like, almost like mourning? What you thought your life was gonna look like, I think is very relatable. And then you kind of don't have control over it. You had to make a decision for you and your family and your kid. Like, when do you think you were able to actually mourn that loss essentially?

• 49:07Speaker 01

  I haven't ever thought about that.

• 49:13Speaker 01

  I think probably when I started like dating again.

• 49:21Speaker 01

  And like my divorce was finalized and we were, you know,

• 49:30Speaker 01

  co-parenting and stuff like I, I think it was just something. I, I, I had a lot of therapy, like I, that was a very helpful tool to help like confront the feelings that would come up, you know? I was twenty six, twenty seven. No, I was twenty seven, twenty eight. And that's like such a crazy time, you know, like that's a very fun time of your life. And I started to like allow myself to have fun through something really painful. And I feel like that's actually a very heavy theme in my life, like this record, there's a lot of like heavy themes disguised as like joy because it's pop music.

• 50:14Speaker 01

  And I feel like that is a huge part of like how I operate. Like this big thing can be happening over here and it's really hard and it's a struggle and I'm gonna sort it out. And sometimes I might push it down and deal with it later, or like I'm gonna be tackling it right now. But like, I genuinely am like such a happy person that I seem to be able to like get through things.

• 50:36Alex Cooper?

  That's how you clearly survive those hard moments, right? You're like, I'm gonna choose to see the positive in life.

• 50:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:42Alex Cooper?

  To keep it moving.

• 50:44Speaker 01

  Also, I think I knew from my parents divorce that like I was going to show my kid that you gotta like fight for your happiness. And I knew that it was gonna be better to do it when he was younger than it was going to be when he was like five and aware or eight and aware. And then kids put like a whole different. Element of like guilt on themselves for like their marriage not working out. I was like, if Luca cannot remember this and have two lives that exist, that he can be happy in and feel like secure in, I think we're winning.

• 51:19Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. What do you think overall? Cause I, I know you're saying you're a positive person, which I think is like a great lesson for people. But for you, if someone is going through a divorce right now, like, can you describe your lowest moment and then how you got out of it through that to anyone who's maybe at that low point right now?

• 51:38Speaker 01

  One, you have to have a therapist. You have to be talking. You have to be processing the feelings.

• 51:47Speaker 01

  And you have to stand up for yourself. I think that was just the thing. I was like, I have to just stand up for myself. I have to. And the, the same thing could have been going on for him. You know what I mean? Like, so I'm not just like, oh, I up and left. Like, it was a collaborative thing that needed to happen. But you, you gotta fight for yourself and it doesn't matter that you have kids. Your kids,

• 52:16Speaker 01

  your kids are gonna be okay. You know what I mean? You just have to show them that like you also ma- I think that that was the big thing for me is like when you have kids, you kind of become so all consumed by them and they get your everything. And

• 52:36Speaker 01

  it was important for me to not

• 52:39Speaker 01

  let that be a factor because a two-year-old can't decide that and know what's, you know what I mean? So.

• 52:47Alex Cooper?

  It's really good advice. It's like you matter too. And actually by showing.

• 52:51Speaker 01

  But once you become a mom, your guilt becomes so thick that like you don't actually, the, there's like this part of your brain where you're like, yeah, I'm still in here and I'm still me. And then there's like this huge shadow over it was like, but everything for the family and everything for your kid and you know, and, and that's a good, it's, I think, again, it's by design, but it's a constant conversation to like.

• 53:14Speaker 01

  Choose yourself and choose something, you know, that you enjoy outside of

• 53:21Speaker 01

  family, life and kids.

• 53:23Alex Cooper?

  Because eventually what you're also showing them is like you're leading by example. Cause then they will choose themselves, hopefully if they're ever in that situation, because they're gonna have watched you do it.

• 53:31Speaker 01

  I think that's absolutely right. Like I had to go drink a martini last night instead of stay home with my family.

• 53:37Alex Cooper?

  It's just a little thing.

• 53:38Speaker 01

  A lot and I try to still give them everything, but like I had to have that dirty martini last night.

• 53:43Alex Cooper?

  Mom needed it. They're not gonna blame you, Hillary. I love it. Um, okay. So you eventually start dating. You get out of this marriage, you start dating and then you eventually meet your now husband. Should we call him Matthew? Matt? What should we call him? Matthew. Matt.

• 53:58Speaker 01

  I call him Matthew when I'm like talking about him. I don't know why. It feels so sophisticated.

• 54:02Alex Cooper?

  Matthew. My husband's name is Matthew too.

• 54:04Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 54:04Alex Cooper?

  Um, okay. How did you guys meet?

• 54:07Speaker 01

  We got set up from my A and R person. Uh, I was at RCA for a nanosecond. And my RCA, my A and R person there set us up on like a work date.

• 54:18Alex Cooper?

  Okay. And was it an immediate connection or was it like a slow burn?

• 54:24Speaker 01

  It was pretty immediate, but like we kept it response, like we weren't like outwardly flirting, but I was like, wait, this person's so fun to talk to. And our meeting was like two hours long. I know. And then I was like, oh my God, I've got it. Like, I've got a child at home. I have to go. Um, but we were just talking like music and, um, you know, taste and like, I was a quarter of the way through, like making a record and it was just, he was definitely cute. I was, he, and then I found out like a month ago that he sent an email that he found and sent it to me.

• 55:07Speaker 01

  And he wrote his manager and it was like two hours with Hillary. I think I'm in love.

• 55:14Alex Cooper?

  You're like laughing, but you're also like, I literally felt the same way, but I didn't put that in writing. Wait, that's amazing.

• 55:20Speaker 01

  I know.

• 55:20Alex Cooper?

  So you both felt it immediately, kind of?

• 55:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I think we were like flirty, but not like, you know, when there's just like a ping pong, like vibe that's happening, but you're not like, like, is this person just like this fun to talk to? Or like, are there feelings?

• 55:36Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 55:36Speaker 01

  It was like that. And um, I was going to Sweden for like a half a month or something to work on some music and he, we were like chatting during that time and then I came home and were, was like recording two songs that he had written. And there was a lot of, he was very sweet. I was like sick for one of them and he had brought me like all these like honeys and teas and cough drops. I know. And then-

• 56:07Alex Cooper?

  And you guys hadn't hooked up at this point yet?

• 56:08Speaker 01

  No. Nope. We hadn't hooked up yet. And then he asked me to be his Valentine. I know, but I already had plans with Luca and I was like, sorry, I can't because I have a date already. And then I just like took a picture of Luca and sent it to him and he was like, okay, I accept. Great. So I think we had like a date, maybe a few days after or a week after or something and it was great, but he was so nice to me. And I remember being like, like after a few times we had hung out, I was like, he's just so nice. That's not really a thing.

• 56:43Alex Cooper?

  So you thought it was like almost a red flag that he was too nice?

• 56:47Speaker 01

  I think I was just like not ready to accept all of that yet. I was like coming out of that, like a long relationship, a divorce. Like I, I was just like chaotic.

• 56:58Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 56:59Speaker 01

  I think I needed some chaos first.

• 57:01Alex Cooper?

  Yes. Meeting a nice guy that's actually going to treat you well. You're like, wait, can you pause for two seconds?

• 57:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:06Alex Cooper?

  Let me get my shit together and I'll come back.

• 57:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally.

• 57:09Alex Cooper?

  Okay, wait. So who made the first move move?

• 57:11Speaker 01

  Him.

• 57:12Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 57:13Speaker 01

  Then I broke up with him.

• 57:15Alex Cooper?

  Okay, hold on.

• 57:16Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 57:16Alex Cooper?

  I feel like there's so much, you guys have said like very on and off again. You broke up with him, then didn't he break up with you? Like, can you kind of just take me through what the hell happened?

• 57:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, um, okay. So I don't know how long we dated, maybe like three months or something. Really, honestly, we had a bunch of fun during that time. Um, and then I was like, gotta go. You need to go like handle, he had some personal stuff he needed to work on. I was like, I have a child, like, I don't know what excuse I use, some bullshit excuse, but I was like, uh, sorry.

• 57:49Alex Cooper?

  Hi, you're literally perfect. I gotta go.

• 57:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:52Alex Cooper?

  Hillary.

• 57:55Speaker 01

  So that was like maybe six months separation.

• 58:02Speaker 01

  And then what, how did we?

• 58:09Speaker 01

  Okay, he's also obsessed with. Do you know the band Dawes?

• 58:14Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 58:15Speaker 01

  Okay, Dawes is this amazing band. He, they're like his heroes and now they're like his best friends because and Ta- Taylor is married to Mandy Moore. And I've known Mandy Moore my whole life, but like, we were never running in the same like friend circles, but I would like see her at like T R L or like, I know. So

• 58:35Alex Cooper?

  Throwback.

• 58:36Speaker 01

  Know each other, but like, aren't really friends. And so we hadn't spoken in a long time and he texts me out of the blue and he's like, Taylor and Mandy married. And I was, but we didn't know them yet. We weren't friends with them yet. He's just like creepy updating me on their life because he's so obsessed with Dawes. And I like, I'll, I will never forget, I was pulling out of like a grocery store parking lot and I almost wrecked my car. I was like, wait, am I actually getting this?

• 59:01Alex Cooper?

  Text right now?

• 59:02Speaker 01

  Text right now? And then it was like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

• 59:05Alex Cooper?

  We're back.

• 59:06Speaker 01

  We're back, baby.

• 59:07Alex Cooper?

  Oh.

• 59:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then, um, we were together for like three months. Things were like very surface and I didn't like that. I was like, I need. I think maybe because I broke up with him, he was like, is she

• 59:24Alex Cooper?

  Gonna do it again?

• 59:25Speaker 01

  Enough? Like, I don't know.

• 59:28Speaker 01

  And I think coming from like also

• 59:33Speaker 01

  a broken household, I was like, let me push this guy and try to poke all the holes in it that I can to see if he's gonna like stick around. Do you know what I mean?

• 59:40Alex Cooper?

  Relatable, yes.

• 59:41Speaker 01

  And, um, so we go to New York.

• 59:47Speaker 01

  And I'm, I'm like on a work trip and I.

• 59:54Speaker 01

  It was like a wine event where I had to like basically drink wine all day and like host like a dinner party, like not a dinner party, but like a garden rooftop party.

• 1:00:02Alex Cooper?

  Oh, my God, what a great.

• 1:00:03Speaker 01

  So fun, except for like, you know, those press days where you're like, basically don't eat.

• 1:00:08Alex Cooper?

  Yes, and then you're drinking.

• 1:00:09Speaker 01

  And you're just talking to people and you're like, working, but.

• 1:00:12Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 1:00:13Speaker 01

  You're like, by the end, I was like, I am.

• 1:00:15Alex Cooper?

  You're seeing stars.

• 1:00:16Speaker 01

  Two sheets to the wind.

• 1:00:17Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 1:00:17Speaker 01

  Yes. And then we go to dinner and it was like an omakase and I had like had more wine, whatever. I pick up some fight. We get into it. I don't even know exactly what I said, but he left the next morning. I know. Yes.

• 1:00:31Alex Cooper?

  She's up and laugh.

• 1:00:31Speaker 01

  Uh huh. No, I mean, we like had a discussion and he was like.

• 1:00:34Alex Cooper?

  Bye.

• 1:00:34Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. He like, he kind of like hit me with his bag on the way out the door and left the door open. We were in the Greenwich, we were at the Greenwich Hotel. And the doors don't like automatically close there.

• 1:00:44Alex Cooper?

  So it's like an awkward like.

• 1:00:46Speaker 01

  And I was like, did you just leave the door open? He's like, at the elevator, literally, I know.

• 1:00:53Alex Cooper?

  The drama.

• 1:00:53Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:00:54Alex Cooper?

  I'm leaving. You left me once, I'm leaving you. It's my turn.

• 1:00:57Speaker 01

  I think that it leveled the playing field in a really good way. But then he wouldn't speak to me because he's a crazy Gemini. And I was like, I just want a moment to like, say, I'm a Libra. I need balance. That was like a crazy night. When I really, that's not really like who I am. So I was just like, I want to genuinely like, say, sorry. You don't have to like, this is not me like pleading to get back with you. I need to like, just make it right and like genuinely like apologize, whatever. Wouldn't speak to me. Then that made me mad and I was like, literally, it's been a week, a week. And then I text him and I was like, your guitars will be at the guard gate. Pick them up at this time.

• 1:01:36Speaker 01

  He must have gotten them. We didn't really like talk, whatever. And then he words with friends me like a few months later.

• 1:01:43Alex Cooper?

  You're lying to me right now.

• 1:01:45Speaker 01

  And I was like, wait, again, almost wrecked my car. I was so excited.

• 1:01:49Alex Cooper?

  Wait, words with friends is also, why did I also have that with an X where we would like, kind of communicate that way? And you're like, what are we doing? Just pick up the fucking phone and call each other.

• 1:01:59Speaker 01

  I know, but it's kind of fun.

• 1:02:00Alex Cooper?

  It is.

• 1:02:01Speaker 01

  And he's so good with words that I was like, I mean, obviously I always get beat.

• 1:02:06Alex Cooper?

  Right. But you're like, okay, here we go.

• 1:02:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. And that was right before my 30th birthday. So he was like at my 30th birthday was, which was so nice. And it was like this really lovely moment where I like looked around my party and I was like. Everyone that is here like means so much to me and has been like such an important part of my story and my like growing, you know, and it's not like a seventieth birthday, but thirty is a big deal, you know, so it was nice. He was, he was there for that. And then literally, we were, we were going away. Where's the place with all the red canyons? Like in Utah or something?

• 1:02:44Alex Cooper?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:45Speaker 01

  Amon.

• 1:02:46Alex Cooper?

  Viamond. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:47Speaker 01

  So we were there and I remember on the way back, we're on the airplane. I was like, when do you want to have kids? And he was like, probably like thirty five. And then I was pregnant like two months later. And I was like, gotcha.

• 1:02:58Alex Cooper?

  Oh, wow. Okay, wait, I feel like one of the themes in your album is abandonment wounds. And to have this be on and off again, and then to finally realize like this is your person and he realized you are my person. Like, how did you work through those wounds? Because it's hard. And I feel like a lot of women listening will be like, wait.

• 1:03:20Speaker 01

  Honestly, I think what worked was me just trusting him. And that's just time. Really, a lot of time, obviously, three pregnancies is a lot on a relationship. And especially one, or like, I feel like I come with a lot of like baggage. And I think just that he's willing to like, really be there and shelter my emotions and my story. And he just kept showing up over and over. And I was like, cool, that, once I could get through that,

• 1:04:00Speaker 01

  like now we get to really have like the fun. You know what I mean? Like, because I just fully trust him. And that was so hard to get to that place.

• 1:04:12Speaker 01

  And there was no secret recipe, but just time and trusting my gut that like I made it a good decision and that it's real and that like a person actually just cares about me. Like it's really hard to accept that for some reason.

• 1:04:26Alex Cooper?

  But how beautiful that you then he proved it.

• 1:04:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. Over and over again, like he's just, he's so, he rides really hard.

• 1:04:35Alex Cooper?

  And it's really cute. Um, you were pretty candid about saying like, you didn't know if you wanted to get married again after everything you had been through. Like, how did you change your mind?

• 1:04:46Speaker 01

  Well, I always knew I wanted more kids. Um, and I knew he'd be an amazing dad. Once I finally introduced him to Luca, he, I think it was around Halloween and he like showed up as like head to toe ninja turtle. I know. And I was like, oh my God.

• 1:05:04Alex Cooper?

  That's really cute.

• 1:05:05Speaker 01

  That's so cute.

• 1:05:06Alex Cooper?

  He's leaning in.

• 1:05:07Speaker 01

  He leaned in and he was just really, really patient, knowing that I was like not ready to introduce him for a long time. When we became parents to Banks, that was a big, I was like, oh, we're good at this. This feels right. And then I always knew he wanted to get married and he's like kind of a traditional guy like that. And I don't remember when the time was, but I always would be like, we can get married at 60. Well, we can be like old and all of our kids can be there. And he would be like, okay, you know, he wasn't like ever asking me, but we would talk about it sometimes. And then randomly

• 1:05:47Speaker 01

  we were in New York shooting Younger and uh, I sent him a picture of a ring that I really liked. And I was like, maybe I could see this on like my young cute hand and not my like old 60 year old hand. And then he proposed like two months later. So sweet.

• 1:06:18Alex Cooper?

  Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Southern New Hampshire University. Daddy gang, let's get real, okay? We like to make our own rules. Southern New Hampshire University gets it. They let you learn what you want with over 200 career-focused programs, where you want with 100% online courses, and how you want with no set class times. Basically, you get to call the shots from day one. Visit SNHU.edu/callherdaddy to learn more. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Pandora Jewelry. Make their holiday unforgettable with a gift that says it all from Pandora Jewelry. I feel like the best gifts are always the ones that feel really personal, right? Like, anyone can buy you something nice,

• 1:07:03Alex Cooper?

  but when someone gives you a gift that is actually meaningful, you appreciate it so much more. And that's what I do love about Pandora. They have so many pieces that you can really just make your own, from festive charms to personalized engravings and jewelry that can represent the people and the moments that mean the most to you. So whether you're shopping for your partner or your mom, your best friend, you can find something that really is specific to them. Maybe it's a charm that makes you think of the trip that you guys took together once, or maybe it's an engraving for your anniversary, or just a piece that feels like them the second you see it. Pandora makes it so easy to give a gift that feels thoughtful and personal

• 1:07:46Alex Cooper?

  and makes every holiday moment even more meaningful and special. Because at the end of the day, the best gifts aren't just about the piece itself, but it's the intention and the story behind them. Say more this holiday season with Pandora. Shop now at Pandora.net or visit your closest Pandora store. Not only are you guys husband and wife, but you're also collaborators and business partners. I want to ask about your new song Roommates, which, you know, it talks about losing the spark and intimacy in a relationship. What was it like working on this together?

• 1:08:20Speaker 01

  One, he doesn't shy away from like, heavy topics that are...

• 1:08:26Speaker 01

  Uncomfortable when it comes to songwriting. Of course, we're like a normal couple. So like there's, I love that like opening line of the song is like, I can barely mention it without causing some ego trauma. And it's like, he's a man and they all are. And like, even if the tables were turned, like, it's hard to be in a relationship with someone and like call out something that's not working. If like, for the most part, it's good, but you're like, we're, I feel really stuck right now. Like, I'm not feeling the way that I want this to feel, or whatever. So it's like, it's hard because it feels like an attack. So like, it's just hard to have communication that is healthy, helps you get what you need or want without

• 1:09:10Speaker 01

  like bruising the other person. Especially in a family where like, you're working overtime to make everyone's needs met and just make the household float, you know? And I don't want to always like relay it to a family because everybody gets in that. You know what I mean? Like, anybody in a long-term relationship, or even something that's like six months where it was like really sparky in the beginning, starts to like, life starts to feel normal. And you're like, wait, I missed that thing. Um.

• 1:09:42Alex Cooper?

  Right. It's like, it almost has somehow become like, people get like shy or embarrassed to admit like, guys, everyone feels it when you're in a long-term relationship. Or again, like, the honeymoon stage is over. Every, I would say, long-term relationship goes through a moment where there's a shift in intimacy, right? And to actually maintain a healthy long-term relationship, you have to first acknowledge that's gonna happen.

• 1:10:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:07Alex Cooper?

  And not just like, leave when it's not working. But then you also have to talk about it, which is the awkward part, you're kind of saying, because like, it is so uncomfortable to be like, can we talk about our sex life? And like, one person is wanting it more, or one person's wanting it less, or one person's initiating more. And like, that's the most vulnerable, I think, one of the most vulnerable things that you can talk about with a partner.

• 1:10:30Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:10:31Alex Cooper?

  But once you open the door to that conversation, it is life-changing.

• 1:10:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:36Alex Cooper?

  And it doesn't, I don't mean it's like easy every time, but like, do you have advice, going through this writing process, going through it together and talking this through for anyone who is like, how do you navigate those conversations and not have it lead to a fight or someone's feelings getting hurt?

• 1:10:57Speaker 01

  It's just like being a healthy communicator and being able to like, I think one of the things I struggled with

• 1:11:06Speaker 01

  and where like roommates kind of came from was like, it wasn't even necessarily like his problem. I was having a hard time asking for what I needed or being like,

• 1:11:17Speaker 01

  being in a place where I was like, felt like I couldn't like share or like was like ashamed of the like needs that I had, you know? Um, I think it's just being able to like be open and not and not like blame someone like communicating without blame is like a really, it's like an art form.

• 1:11:44Alex Cooper?

  Quite literally.

• 1:11:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:45Alex Cooper?

  That's a great point. Yeah, that's it's almost like sometimes it has nothing to do with your partner. It's actually like all on you of like, this is something I've been thinking about.

• 1:11:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:54Alex Cooper?

  And now I need to make sure that when I'm saying this, it's coming out in a way that's not, I wish you would, or it's actually like I need and I I want. And that, starting from that place, is such a healthier place to communicate it. So they're not immediately shut down and feeling backed into a corner like they're doing something wrong, which is beautiful.

• 1:12:14Speaker 01

  Also, I think that women have like such intuition and such a,

• 1:12:22Speaker 01

  oh, what's the word I'm looking for? Like, like, just you're just in tune. You just know. And I remember calling his mom and being like, why doesn't he know? I know.

• 1:12:33Alex Cooper?

  Every woman in the world, like, why don't you know? And they're like, I don't know, but if you tell me, I'll fix it.

• 1:12:38Speaker 01

  Right. And it's so simple, but you're like, I don't want to have to tell you.

• 1:12:41Alex Cooper?

  How don't you just know exactly what I'm feeling?

• 1:12:43Speaker 01

  Making more work for me to have to tell you.

• 1:12:47Alex Cooper?

  And they're like,

• 1:12:47Speaker 01

  she literally like, I forget what some of the post-its would say, but she'd be like, babe, put a post-it up and just remember you gotta, you gotta tell him, you gotta ask for what you need. You have to, whatever. I know. And then it made things so much better when I was like, stop, when I didn't expect him to just know.

• 1:13:03Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. It's like, we want them to be able to read our minds, but like, they can't. And so, once you just start communicating, it's so much easier.

• 1:13:08Speaker 01

  But then you're already coming from a place of being annoyed that you're like, I've been suffering.

• 1:13:12Alex Cooper?

  It's like, I didn't even know that.

• 1:13:14Speaker 01

  And you didn't notice?

• 1:13:15Alex Cooper?

  They're like, no.

• 1:13:16Speaker 01

  No. Yeah.

• 1:13:17Alex Cooper?

  Talk. Say something.

• 1:13:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:19Alex Cooper?

  Um, the lyrics also in the song reference porn and masturbating. And it was pretty crazy to see the way some of the internet responded.

• 1:13:29Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:13:30Alex Cooper?

  People were like, some people were absolutely shocked and outraged that you were speaking about these things. How did it make you feel to see that some people really were still expecting you to present in this squeaky, clean child star image that they watched you as a young girl have?

• 1:13:53Speaker 01

  Well, I think that probably my initial reaction was like, oh, they just haven't like evolved yet, you know? Because, and I don't care at all. One of the craziest comments that I saw was like, and do you do that in front of your children? And I was like, no. What? Are you okay? No, but guess what? Like, the song is meant to be polarizing. It's not meant to like, be raunchy or like get attention because of what I'm saying. Like, it's, it's a plea. And like, I think that's relatable to women. And so, you know,

• 1:14:37Speaker 01

  I have never given head in the back of a dive bar. Sadly, there's always time.

• 1:14:41Alex Cooper?

  But it's gonna happen.

• 1:14:42Speaker 01

  But you get to take like, like liber- lyrical like liberties when you're writing a song and you're creating art. And it was, it was important for me that the song felt like very polarizing because that's, that's how it feels in a moment of a, of a lull in a relationship where you're just like, I need.

• 1:15:01Speaker 01

  I need to sort this out. I need to get through this. I can't keep feeling this way. Um, and yeah, so yeah, it was really wild to see some of the, I think for the most part it was good, but then of course, like all the comments that stand out to you are the negative ones.

• 1:15:17Alex Cooper?

  It also funny because I feel like from the internet, what I saw was at first it was all positive. And then as people like really started to dissect the lyrics and had like more time to sit on it. They're like, did she say masturbate? Did she say porn? And everyone's like, Hilary Duff said the word porn and everyone's like, it's almost like just like the bandwagon. It's like so fun for them and easy to just like get on it and you'd be like, yeah, that's kind of crazy. I, what I also took from it.

• 1:15:41Speaker 01

  Or like, do your kids sing that? And I'm like, I'm not making music for my kids. I'm not making music for seven year olds. I'm making music for myself, making music for people like myself. So, you know, I was singing crazy lyrics when I was young too, that I had no idea what they meant. And if I was like,

• 1:16:01Speaker 01

  I'm not making a children's record.

• 1:16:03Alex Cooper?

  Again, I think there's an image people have of you being a child star that they, that's like on them. It's not on you. Um, I also thought it was ironic that, you know, they're so shocked that you're singing about sex as an adult, but then when you rewind as a teenager, you had reporters asking you, have you lost your virginity and are you sleeping around? So it's like, it's, it's never, women can never win. It wasn't appropriate when you were underage that people were asking you these things. And now that you have autonomy and you're an adult, people are now so fixated on like, how dare you talk about sex? And it's like,

• 1:16:37Speaker 01

  What do you want from me?

• 1:16:38Alex Cooper?

  She's four kids. Do you guys think that she doesn't have sex?

• 1:16:41Speaker 01

  It was immaculate conception.

• 1:16:42Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 1:16:42Speaker 01

  Every time.

• 1:16:43Alex Cooper?

  How though do, I'm curious, people having always something to say about you and your sexuality and whether it was your virginity or you're hooking up. And then now like, how has that impacted your sexuality?

• 1:16:56Speaker 01

  I don't think it like impacted my relationship with sex. But I think it's just been another one of those things that comes along with my career that I didn't really ask for, and I've had to learn how to just accept. Um, but it was really hard as a young girl because I was like, coined the good girl.

• 1:17:20Speaker 01

  And everybody was like, she's the good girl. She's the good girl. And like, just having to label someone and then do everything they could to try to poke holes in that label. Or try to figure out any

• 1:17:36Speaker 01

  thing they could that was like somewhat negative or bad, you know, it was like the create, they were just trying to create stories. And it was hard to be like, one, okay, I've been labeled the good girl like, but I'm also just normal, doing all the normal things that teenagers are doing. Um, and trying to just kind of exist without

• 1:18:05Speaker 01

  accepting those things to be true about myself, maybe, um, or

• 1:18:13Speaker 01

  having any sort of like privacy, I think was just like really hard. And yeah, I remember that time that person like asked me if I was a virgin and I was like, I, I, I think also as a child actor, you're conditioned to like, want to give people what they want. You know, so like answering something like that felt like really wild.

• 1:18:33Alex Cooper?

  Wait, did you answer?

• 1:18:34Speaker 01

  I don't remember. I don't remember. I just remember it being said and it was like a stir of like publicists and like a crazy, you know, just like so inappropriate.

• 1:18:44Alex Cooper?

  Beyond.

• 1:18:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:46Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:46Speaker 01

  That stuff I don't think flies anymore.

• 1:18:48Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 1:18:49Speaker 01

  Um, but yeah, I was definitely in, in the middle of that like crazy press time where people would ask you whatever.

• 1:18:55Alex Cooper?

  And that's why I'm so happy that you're taking your own liberty of like, I am going to talk about things in my life. And it's okay if everyone doesn't want to accept it, but don't just not accept it because of an image you have of me as a young girl, because that's actually just weird.

• 1:19:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:13Alex Cooper?

  You have a song also called, We Don't Talk, and you kind of basically say, don't know when it happened, not even sure what it was about, which is weirdly, really relatable. I think it kind of seems like you're talking about, and correct me if I'm wrong, like when a relationship falls apart. And when you have time away from it, you look back, you're like, wait, why did we lose touch? Or how did that exactly go down? Um, how do you approach those type of dynamics in your own life? Like, are you the person that will reach out? Or do you kind of retreat? And not try to mend something if it's broken?

• 1:19:46Speaker 01

  I will reach out.

• 1:19:47Alex Cooper?

  You do.

• 1:19:49Alex Cooper?

  Have you had to do that a lot in your life?

• 1:19:50Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:19:52Alex Cooper?

  Has it always felt like, oh, you made the right decision? Or have you been kind of bitten in the ass ever?

• 1:19:59Speaker 01

  I think I get bitten in the ass sometimes when it doesn't unfold the way that I would like I was hoping. But I think that, um,

• 1:20:13Speaker 01

  I think one thing that I appreciate about myself is that I will always try. And I like always try to keep a heart open and like a heart forward and try.

• 1:20:25Speaker 01

  And that like as a 38 year old who's like navigating the industry since I was nine years old, makes me feel like healthy, you know, like it's easy to get jaded and, and and really rough around the edges and I don't feel like I am.

• 1:20:39Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. Obviously, you are a very public person, so people are constantly trying to dissect your lyrics. Um, but a lot of people have been thinking that this could be about a family member of yours. How do you feel when you see those things online?

• 1:20:57Speaker 01

  Um, I think there was no way for me to make a record after 10 years and not

• 1:21:07Speaker 01

  dig into what those 10 years have looked like. You know, and like the, the

• 1:21:14Speaker 01

  big things that have happened and that affect me and that make me who I am. And, um, and unfortunately, a lot of that has been like not great stuff. And that's life. Um, it sucks that I'm not an adult coming up, coming out with an album that people don't know my story and all the players in it. You know, people have known everybody in my life since I was on Lizzie McGuire, you know, they know my mom, my sister, my dad, like we have a small family. People are interested in that for some reason. Um, and it's really.

• 1:21:56Speaker 01

  Sad, you know, the, the kind of like where, where we are right now. Um.

• 1:22:02Speaker 01

  And scary to share it because of like the internet. But important for me, like, I'm just saying how it feels for me. And that was something on the record I really tried to accomplish is like not placing blame anywhere. Takes a lot of people for, uh, it takes everybody involved, you know, to, to, for things to kind of be where they are. Um, but I was just trying to talk about how it feels like for me and, and reach people because it's real. And a lot of people share the, a similar story and, um.

• 1:22:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, it's never easy to see people speculating on your life for clicks. Um.

• 1:22:51Speaker 01

  But it's easier to tune the noise out with like having the household that I have and the, that like soft landing and that all the love and, you know, I've created that family. I'm so proud of like

• 1:23:06Speaker 01

  that makes

• 1:23:09Speaker 01

  all of the things that I've been through, like, okay.

• 1:23:12Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. When you put out songs like that, like, were you, do you, has it felt cathartic and kind of like chapter close? Or are you hoping it could maybe like spark some type of like reconciliation or conversation?

• 1:23:25Speaker 01

  My purpose was for making my record was for myself. And

• 1:23:34Speaker 01

  I think that

• 1:23:37Speaker 01

  like you always hope for something to be healthy again. You know, and something to be good again. Um. But I don't know if like, I don't know if my, me being honest and vulnerable will.

• 1:23:54Speaker 01

  You know, be met with openness or anger or what it could, you know, there's many different options there. And I think I had to just let go of an expectation and do what I wanted for me. And um, and that's that, you know, it's a, it's a painful thing to talk about. Yeah.

• 1:24:17Alex Cooper?

  It kind of reminds me almost of like you earlier in the interview said, God, I, I do love doing this so much, but I do love my life and the privacy. And it's almost like,

• 1:24:29Speaker 01

  Well, I don't know if you've noticed, but like even since I started like,

• 1:24:35Speaker 01

  being more like forward facing with my music, like the internet is like a buzz with like everything they can possibly dig up. So it's

• 1:24:43Alex Cooper?

  It's a lot.

• 1:24:44Speaker 01

  Very strange.

• 1:24:46Alex Cooper?

  I have a list of things that I'm like, shit, like you've been a hot topic of conversation, Miss Duff. Like you have been, I'm like, okay, so we go through the family thing now, one of literally the noisiest things on the internet. That's what I have to ask, just because it's been so freaking noisy. It's been everywhere is an article was written about a toxic mom group and it literally took the internet by storm and every single person was talking about it. And then through speculation and then people connecting the dots, like it kind of

• 1:25:14Speaker 01

  I don't really think people had to connect very many dots.

• 1:25:16Alex Cooper?

  It took like a day, not even.

• 1:25:18Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:25:19Alex Cooper?

  Um, how did you feel when it came out and when you read it?

• 1:25:23Speaker 01

  Um,

• 1:25:27Speaker 01

  I felt really sad. I honestly felt really sad. I was like,

• 1:25:33Speaker 01

  pretty,

• 1:25:37Speaker 01

  pretty taken aback and felt just like sad, like.

• 1:25:44Speaker 01

  I love, I have, I have so many groups of friends. I'm so lucky. Motherhood has brought on like, I have my like core group of friends who have been my ride or dies for 20 years. 10 to 20 years. And I have like tons of different groups of mom friends because I have four kids. You know, so um, I think I just was like, whoa, it sucks to read something that's like not true. And it sucks on behalf of like six women in all of their lives.

• 1:26:13Alex Cooper?

  Then the pot got stirred a little bit more. Our boy Matthew.

• 1:26:17Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:26:17Alex Cooper?

  Posted an Instagram story, kind of then addressing back to it. Did you know he was gonna post this?

• 1:26:24Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:26:25Alex Cooper?

  How did you feel when you opened your phone and hubby had chimed in?

• 1:26:31Speaker 01

  Honestly,

• 1:26:36Speaker 01

  everything he does makes me laugh. So I was like, oh my God, oh my God. But I also don't censor him and I don't tell him what he can and can't post.

• 1:26:52Speaker 01

  He is so like fierce for me. And like, I love him for that.

• 1:27:01Alex Cooper?

  Um, is there anything on that that you want to clarify? Cause obviously all the rumors and everything and like you have been in the center of it. Like, is there anything else you want to just like clarify on that topic?

• 1:27:10Speaker 01

  Nope.

• 1:27:11Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 1:27:13Speaker 01

  I think it came at like the craziest time where I was like my, like the timing felt not great. And I felt used.

• 1:27:23Alex Cooper?

  Like, would this have happened had you not had your big resurgence and everything going on with you? Okay, moving on. Um, okay, like we've talked about 10 years since you released an album. So I'm curious, if you were to picture your dream life 10 years from now, what would it look like?

• 1:27:43Speaker 01

  Whoa. Cool.

• 1:27:49Speaker 01

  Okay, anytime I look into the future, I like to think about Thanksgiving. And like what the table looks like.

• 1:27:55Alex Cooper?

  Are you hosting?

• 1:27:56Speaker 01

  Always.

• 1:27:56Alex Cooper?

  Okay, 10 years, it's November, you're hosting.

• 1:28:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:00Alex Cooper?

  What does it look like?

• 1:28:01Speaker 01

  Like, like, my kids have their like boyfriend or girlfriend there. Or like bestie or what like it's just full, the table's full, the like the seats are full. We're gonna play like some dumb game later, we're drinking wine, like it's just, you know, everyone's there. And so,

• 1:28:26Speaker 01

  I would like to have toured the world, maybe twice.

• 1:28:32Speaker 01

  Um, probably made another record.

• 1:28:36Speaker 01

  Um, and like figured out a way to juggle, like having this and also having home life still be, like I can't, it's so fun to watch my kids grow up, like it's just the best thing ever. I love having babies and it's really hard to think about not having a baby in the house anymore. But like, as they grow, they just get so cool. So I think I just hope to continue having

• 1:29:08Speaker 01

  the relationship that I have with my kids and the home life that I have. Um, but like, I think I'll work, I'll work forever. Everyone's always like, what about the Lizzie McGuire reboot? And I'm like, like, it's not interesting to me at like 40. It was interesting to me at like 30, but like, maybe it's interesting at like 55 or 60. You know, like, I don't know, maybe I'm doing that.

• 1:29:35Alex Cooper?

  Listen, none of us are gonna be mad at you. We're like, we're ready whenever you're ready. We're like, we'll be, we'll be seated.

• 1:29:41Speaker 01

  Also, I would love to have more time to just like do the things I want with Matt. Like, we get very little time.

• 1:29:49Alex Cooper?

  Prioritize your relationship.

• 1:29:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. We talk about that a lot.

• 1:29:53Alex Cooper?

  Well, if I see you in 10 years, I'm gonna be like, did you do these things?

• 1:29:55Speaker 01

  What are you guys doing?

• 1:29:56Alex Cooper?

  I interview you like the day after Thanksgiving. 10 years from now, we'll put on the books. Um, how, if you have any, could you share some advice on, I know you can't do it all, but we are sitting here and like, you've had such a successful career. You are continuing to have such a successful career and you have four kids. And I think there's probably a lot of women that are looking at you being like, it does kind of seem like you have it all and you're doing it all. And like, do you have any advice to women who maybe want to get back into work, but are afraid how you manage that with the kids and all of it?

• 1:30:29Speaker 01

  One, I think that was like a huge why for making this record, was to inspire, I know people aren't pop stars. Not, not everybody gets to be a pop star. And I'm like eternally grateful that for some reason, this was my position in life. But I do hope that it inspires moms to get outside of their household a little bit and like find the thing that they love if they've lost it.

• 1:30:58Speaker 01

  I think it's so important to not be there for your kids every waking moment. I think it's so important for them to have like wins and losses out in the world alone, that you're not like privy for, for everything. And that like breaks my heart to say, because I like love to be there for all of their things. But like, I think it's healthy. And I've learned that with having four kids, because you obviously can't be everywhere all at once. Um, and you just have to be like, okay, I was there for that thing that day. I'm choosing this thing this day and I'm good, you know, it's like you've got to make those choices. Um, but I feel like my kids are stronger because of it. And, um,

• 1:31:38Speaker 01

  I never want them to feel guilty for growing up and like leaving me behind. I don't, I wanna be okay with like.

• 1:31:46Alex Cooper?

  That is like made me like sad and happy at the same time. That almost made me cry. That's really.

• 1:31:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:53Alex Cooper?

  Wow.

• 1:31:53Speaker 01

  I think that if you like, don't find yourself and stay true to like your, some of your needs, you know, then like they'll eventually leave and you want them to leave and be okay, you know?

• 1:32:07Alex Cooper?

  Like, I don't have kids yet, but that's like a big fear of mine, right? I think so many women are probably watching right now because it's like, you don't want to lose yourself.

• 1:32:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:15Alex Cooper?

  But then the guilt of like leaving them and it's like,

• 1:32:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:18Alex Cooper?

  It's so ever-present for women, whether they're in the middle of it or they're expecting to go through it. So to hear you be like, guys, I'm actually living it and like, gotta let them go.

• 1:32:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, you do.

• 1:32:29Alex Cooper?

  And don't let yourself.

• 1:32:29Speaker 01

  And then the other thing that I like wanna set straight a little bit is like I,

• 1:32:37Speaker 01

  it, you can't have it all. You just can't. You can try and you can have a lot of the things that you want, but you're gonna miss stuff, you know, and you're gonna have to make choices and I feel

• 1:32:53Speaker 01

  so incredibly grateful for everybody behind the scenes of my life right now, helping me achieve this. It is like,

• 1:33:02Speaker 01

  I have nannies and an assistant and like hair and makeup people keeping me looking, you know, not like how I look when I wake up in the morning. And my husband and a label and a huge machine behind me that's like making this. Meghan Trainor texted me the other day and she's like, babe, you, this rollout has been flawless. Are you okay? And I'm like. And I have so much help, but it's like still so much, you know, it's just like a crazy. You don't see what goes on behind the scenes because it all looks so shiny and it's like has to, I guess. But like, it's really hard and everyone's taken sacrifices for it, you know, including my kids.

• 1:33:46Alex Cooper?

  No, I appreciate you saying that because I think you're right. It's like.

• 1:33:50Alex Cooper?

  Your life does look like a dream right now and it's like you're shiny and sparkly and gorgeous and all of it. And it's like, no, to the women out there, like, yes, I'm living my dream, but it comes at a cost and it's hard.

• 1:34:04Speaker 01

  Comes at a huge cost. Being in the industry comes with a huge cost. And it's so hard to complain when your life looks shiny and you have money, you know?

• 1:34:13Alex Cooper?

  Completely, but I also appreciate you just letting us into because it's like. Again, I think we compare ourselves to women we see online because I'm like, okay, so she's got four kids and she's able to do this. And then you're like, guys, no, no, no, no, like only because I have a crew and a team and assistants and this. And it's like breaking that barrier and that wall, I think also helps women who maybe are doing it as a single mom alone. Who can't afford the assistant. It's like, you've got the hardest job and we bow down to you. Seriously.

• 1:34:42Speaker 01

  Down to them.

• 1:34:43Alex Cooper?

  Okay, last question. Your fans have stuck by your side for decades. What do you hope you're able to connect with them over in this new era that you're presenting to the world?

• 1:34:57Speaker 01

  One, I just want to say I'm eternally grateful for them. I would not have a music career without them. I was not like accepted by the music industry by any stretch of the imagination. They were rabid for me and my music and like I was. Of course, Lizzie McGuire being that launching pad and them like loving me from that. I'm so grateful. Of course I had my feelings of having to like. Accept that part of my life, but I'm so like, I love her now too, and I. Connect and I get it, you know, but like when I got into music, the fans like I was.

• 1:35:38Speaker 01

  You know, doing like arenas and and stuff like that was and I didn't really have a ton of radio play and I didn't have like it just wasn't a thing yet that like actors could just become musicians like I'm just so appreciative that like my music connected with people and like had legs for 20 years and then I get to

• 1:36:02Speaker 01

  be at a point now in my life where I'm I can like see

• 1:36:10Speaker 01

  what it meant to them and to me and um and then just getting to like not be shy about like not I'm not reintroducing myself at all. I think I just needed like a second to like live some life and like they lived a whole bunch of life and now we get to like connect as adults and talk about what the hell that's like.

• 1:36:34Alex Cooper?

  Thank you so much for opening up today. I know we went on like a winding journey.

• 1:36:39Speaker 01

  Really? We were in the canyon, babe.

• 1:36:40Alex Cooper?

  We were. We went everywhere and more. And I think um again, like having had you take a break for a while, coming back like it's so fun to hear about your adult life. I know we did nostalgia, but like I really appreciate you sharing more about what's been going on recently because it is so informative to this album and I'm so excited for everyone to hear it and to embrace it with open arms and not look at you as this child star, but this woman who has this beautiful family and a career. And that is beyond relatable to my audience for sure. So thank you for opening up and letting us have a little glimpse into your life and everything that's inspired this amazing album.

• 1:37:19Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:37:20Alex Cooper?

  Hello, Daff. Thank you for coming, Color Daddy.

• 1:37:37Alex Cooper?

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