Nara Smith: Stop Calling Me a Tradwife

Join Alex in the studio for an interview with Nara Smith. Nara shares how she built her career from scratch, addresses the "tradwife" label, and sets the record straight on what people still get wrong about her. She also opens up about her relationship with Lucky, navigating what to share online about her family, her experience with postpartum anxiety, and getting through one of the hardest chapters of her life. Enjoy!

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• 2:06Speaker 02

  What is up daddy gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy.

• 2:15Speaker 00

  Nora Smith, welcome to Call Her Daddy.

• 2:18Speaker 02

  I'm so excited.

• 2:19Speaker 00

  I am so excited to talk with you today. You are one of the most talked about people on the internet, whether you are making potentially Skittles from scratch.

• 2:32Speaker 02

  We're getting there.

• 2:32Speaker 00

  We're getting there. You're in full couture in the kitchen. You really are at the center of so many conversations when it comes to womanhood, motherhood, family. And so I just, I can't wait to get into all of it with you today.

• 2:46Speaker 02

  Let's do it.

• 2:46Speaker 00

  Nora, recently you shared

• 2:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:49Speaker 00

  online that your daughter, Whimsy, was diagnosed with cancer.

• 2:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:53Speaker 00

  And first, I just want to say, like, I am so sorry for what you and your daughter and your family are going through. I truly cannot imagine. So just like, all the condolences sent your way. Something that I really was struck by is that when you shared it online, you kind of talked about how you were hoping that sharing would allow other families to maybe feel less alone and be able to feel like there are other people going through what you're going through. And I thought that was really beautiful. And I hope that maybe our conversation today can give a little bit of that to anyone watching too.

• 3:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, I hope that too. I think there's something so beautiful and grounding and supportive about having a community. And you feel like when something bad happens in your life, that it's usually a very isolating experience to where you feel like no one else would get it, or no one really understands, or all these different things. But the more time I spend in the hospital and kind of seeking that community myself, the more I realized that there's actually a lot more parents going through the exact same thing, maybe in different ways, but essentially the same thing as me. And I think also by sharing it, it opened up that whole world to me to where my DMs were flooded with parents going through the same thing and being really consolidated almost by what I posted. So.

• 4:08Speaker 00

  I can't even imagine. And I think that's going to be a huge topic today is like, so much of your life is online, obviously, and we'll get to that because you didn't, you chose to share it at a very specific time, obviously. But let's go back to the beginning, okay? Because I was thinking about it this morning and I'm like,

• 4:25Speaker 02

  What were you thinking about?

• 4:26Speaker 00

  I was like, I feel like everyone remembers the first Nara Smith video they saw.

• 4:33Speaker 02

  What was your one that you watched?

• 4:35Speaker 00

  Mine was like, you were in your old kitchen.

• 4:36Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, the Dallas one.

• 4:37Speaker 00

  You did the classic, like, my husband said he was hungry for, and I literally just looked and I was like, oh my God. But I feel like everyone has that core memory of like, I know, I remember when she first popped on the scene for me. But to anyone who maybe lives under a rock that is watching this,

• 4:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:52Speaker 00

  can you explain what people can expect in one of your videos?

• 4:58Speaker 02

  I think it's all, it's, it was born out of this very, it was very coincidental. Like we, okay, so let me go back. I had my second son, my first son, my second baby, and I was feeling really crappy and I didn't know what was going on. So I got diagnosed with an autoimmune disease and my eczema started flaring up really bad, to the point where I genuinely felt crippled by it, because I couldn't really go out. I couldn't use my hands. I couldn't brush my hair. It was this, the bob also came from that because I was like, I can't do my curls anymore because of all these health issues. So then I also,

• 5:39Speaker 02

  not being from America, I didn't quite know what it meant eating processed food here because a lot of ingredients in our food are not good for us. So then I kind of did so much research to the point where I was like, okay, well, I guess I'll just have to make everything from scratch because that feels the safest to me. So I started doing that and then got on TikTok and started sharing that. And that's when the whole situation kind of happened. And then during COVID, I couldn't really wear any of my fun outfits anywhere. So I decided to wear them in the kitchen. My daughters loved it. And it was just this thing that kind of happened. And then the voice, I think there's like components to my content. It's the cooking from scratch, and then there's the fashion, and then there's

• 6:22Speaker 02

  the voice. And all of these pieces were born individually. Like the voice came from me having put my baby down. And I was like, I've just spent so much time putting you down. There's no way I'm going to jeopardize waking you up.

• 6:36Speaker 00

  But we got, mom's gotta work.

• 6:37Speaker 02

  But I, I gotta get this video up. I take no days off. So we just gotta make it happen. So I spoke really softly and quietly and I didn't wake my kid up. And then I posted it. And then that's how the voice kind of came about. So everything was born out of this like really innocent place.

• 6:54Speaker 00

  It's really crazy to know, because I feel like everyone knows that voice. And even people have recreated it, obviously. Like now people do their Nara Smith voice. And it's wild to be like, you were just like quickly, like, ooh, I gotta get this up and I'm just gonna whisper. But then after that, you're like, okay, people clearly like it. Now I'm gonna give it to them.

• 7:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:15Speaker 00

  Because sometimes you don't always do the voice, right?

• 7:17Speaker 02

  When I do, so when I do my voiceovers, usually I do the voice. And then when I do talking directly to camera, it's usually my normal voice.

• 7:25Speaker 00

  Normal voice, okay.

• 7:25Speaker 02

  And then people always say, you're yelling at us. I'm like, I'm so sorry. Like, I'm just talking normal, but you're used to whispering.

• 7:32Speaker 00

  Okay, what post do you remember first going viral?

• 7:36Speaker 02

  It was this one post where we had a bunch of peaches at home and my kids actually wanted bread and jam, right? Every, like, my kids love bread and jam. So I was like, okay, great. Let me just make bread for the first time on camera. Why not? So I did. And that was the first video that kind of popped off because I was like, my kid stumbled into my room asking me for bread and jam. And they actually did. Did it take hours to make? Yeah. Did they still enjoy it and ask for it? Yes. So that was the first video. And then after that, I didn't really tap into it for a while. I kind of just sprinkled it in because I didn't quite realize that people would want that. And then I kind of just continued doing it.

• 8:16Speaker 00

  So it started a little bit as like a, this just so happened. And you're like, kind of obviously recognizing, okay, people like a little bit of this, a little bit of this. But like, you now have gone on to create and curate such specific branded world. When do you think this clear vision kind of came to fruition for you where you were like, this is a business for me and I actually can execute this on a level that's not just like a fun happen, chance thing?

• 8:45Speaker 02

  I think it kind of took a minute. I was, everything kind of went insanely viral when I was pregnant with my third baby, Whimsy. And I didn't really see it as a business. I was like, oh, great. I'm earning, like, I'm earning money all of a sudden. I can do this, but I never thought about it as anything bigger. But then obviously, the more I did it and the more deals came in and the more conversations I kind of had with my agents at the time, the more I kind of realized, oh, I could actually do this as a job and have the flexibility of being at home with my kids and kind of figuring that part out. And then obviously now, it's evolved into this full-scale business that I'm still executing myself, which is crazy. Like I film, I pick the outfits, I pick the recipe,

• 9:28Speaker 02

  I film it myself on a tripod, I edit it myself. And then when the kids go to sleep, I do the voiceover, get it up the next day. So it's basically a one-man show, woman show. And yeah, it's been, it's been really eye-opening to now be able to basically do whatever I feel like. It's really fun.

• 9:49Speaker 00

  Obviously, because again, it's starting as this like fun side thing. Do you remember the moment where you sat down with your husband and you were like, I think I really want to lean in and like, fully put time and effort into this in a business capacity, not just like a, oh, I actually have some time on Sunday, let's do this. Like, do you remember when you had that type of conversation together?

• 10:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, we had that conversation in my first kitchen that you probably remember. But I think it was more so him. He was like, you know, you can just do this. And I'm like, yeah, I guess. And he's like, no, like you actually can. And that's, I think, those conversations kind of happened. But I think they kind of happened naturally because I'm a very ambitious and driven and hardworking woman, to where there was no option but to film and get the video up. So it wasn't even a conversation where I was asking for permission or asking for anything really. I was just like, well, gotta watch the kids, hon, because I gotta film. And that happened more and more. And he's like, well, can you maybe come up with a better schedule? Because this seems a little hectic. I'm like, yeah, okay.

• 10:55Speaker 02

  But I think it just kind of organically happened, but there was no other option in my mind. Because if I do something, I do it. So.

• 11:01Speaker 00

  I love that so much. I love that you're like, lucky, sorry, but like, get on board.

• 11:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:15Speaker 00

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• 14:06Speaker 00

  You can check it all out at ae.com or just go to the store. Can we talk about making something from scratch is one thing? Miss Nora Smith.

• 14:19Speaker 02

  What are you gonna tell me?

• 14:21Speaker 00

  But then you look at things that you've made from scratch, okay? And we've got, we've got cough drops. We've got cereal. We've got chewing gum.

• 14:33Speaker 02

  I love a good homemade gum.

• 14:35Speaker 00

  No, no, the chewing gum, I was like, I can't believe this woman. No, I, I was like, there's, there's no way. And I think that's how some people feel. They're like, is she actually being serious? Is this real? Does she actually make it homemade? Like, I guess my question is like, how intentional are you about selecting recipes? That you know people will have the reaction I just had, where you're like, no way.

• 15:03Speaker 02

  I think it really depends. It sometimes gets born out of me seeing something at the grocery store and being like, can I make this at home? Sometimes it's Lucky telling me, oh, I really want you to make me talkies. Like, do you think he can do that? Cause he's obsessed, like obsessed with talkies. So I'm like, I'll make it for you. Or I think about these random things and challenge myself. So it kind of is, and sometimes I'm like, I think this would be really fun. So it really is this like, it's a mix of different things.

• 15:35Speaker 00

  Okay, that's fair. Yeah, um, your fashion choices have evolved.

• 15:39Speaker 02

  They have.

• 15:39Speaker 00

  I feel like when I was looking back at your earlier videos, it was like a cute.

• 15:44Speaker 02

  It was very cute.

• 15:44Speaker 00

  Like dress.

• 15:46Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 15:46Speaker 00

  Sometimes a little apron on, more realistic, I guess you could say. Now, obviously, we're hitting full couture in the kitchen, baby. The gloves, the one with the gloves.

• 15:58Speaker 02

  The scap gloves, the ones with the nails. I was terrified of ruining them. I'm like, I'm so sorry, Daniel. Just making some rice pudding.

• 16:05Speaker 00

  It is crazy, though, to see that evolution. Can you talk to me, though, about those beginning days of, yes, I know you said, like, I wasn't getting to wear any of my cute outfits out of COVID. You know, you're in your kitchen, but like, did you also have any understanding of the way that you were presenting? And what you wanted to present as, as a woman in these videos that you were making?

• 16:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think.

• 16:31Speaker 02

  That one's a tricky question because at the time when everything kind of started for me, I was pregnant. So I'm the type of person, I will never buy maternity clothes. I refuse, I'm not going to do that. But that was just me. I didn't want to do that ever. So, and I was a very like jeans and like t-shirt type girl. Obviously, I loved my fashion, but I was also a street style girl when I lived in Europe before. So I told Lucky when we dated, I was like, I'm never going to wear a dress, like, good luck. And then when I was pregnant with my third, I was like, well, can't really wear my pants. I guess dresses. And then those were the dresses that I would naturally gravitate towards, like the very cute. I felt very feminine during that pregnancy. So that's kind of what I naturally gravitated towards.

• 17:15Speaker 02

  And that kind of expressed itself in the cute collars and the very feminine looking dresses that I guess.

• 17:23Speaker 02

  People connected with different things, but that wasn't like intentional. It was more so, I was pregnant, I needed to wear a dress and I felt very like whimsical and feminine during that. So that's kind of what my fashion choices reflected. And I didn't fit a lot of like couture dresses, because out of bump.

• 17:40Speaker 00

  You're out of bump. That, that's where, and I'm sure you can kinda.

• 17:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, let's get into it.

• 17:44Speaker 00

  I can feel, you can probably feel where I'm going with this girl. Cause I'm like, there was an image that started to be created.

• 17:51Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 17:51Speaker 00

  And while people loved your content, I think a larger conversation really started to bud from Nara Smith. And who she was and what she was standing for and what she was representing for women. What do you remember just about the early commentary around you and your brand and your videos?

• 18:13Speaker 02

  I, at that point, I was very much online. So I would read the comments, I'd be like, well, this is weird because I don't feel like that. And my reality is so different to what people are assuming based off of the one and a half minute videos they see. So I was very confused where that conversation came from. But then the more I like read about it, I'm like, you know what? Yeah, but I'm also correcting the narrative, but you're not listening. So.

• 18:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, so let's call it what it is. So people started to compare you to trad wife.

• 18:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:41Speaker 00

  And people were like.

• 18:42Speaker 02

  They kind of used me as the poster child for the trad wife movement, which was very bizarre to me.

• 18:47Speaker 00

  Why was that bizarre to you?

• 18:49Speaker 02

  It was bizarre to me for a multitude of reasons, but let's, you know what? Let's Google what the definition of a trad wife is.

• 18:56Speaker 00

  Well, that's perfect. I was actually gonna ask you, what do you consider a trad wife?

• 19:00Speaker 02

  Well, I had to look up the term because.

• 19:02Speaker 00

  Read it to me.

• 19:03Speaker 02

  Because I wasn't familiar with that, right? I didn't quite know what it means. But the fast answer is a trad wife is a woman who embraces or promotes a traditional model of marriage and family life. Where she typically prioritizes being a homemaker and a primary caregiver for kids. Takes primary responsibility for cooking, cleaning and managing the household. Supports her husband's role as the primary breadwinner. Often values traditional gender roles within marriage. So with that definition and those points, I'm none of that. And we can go through it point by point. I don't prioritize being a homemaker. I'm a working mom, like, I am out in LA, I travel a lot.

• 19:44Speaker 02

  I, sure, do I love cooking because it's my passion and because I kind of have to do it, given my autoimmune? Absolutely. But that's a passion of mine, it's a hobby, it's not something that I need to be doing. For what?

• 19:57Speaker 00

  Right?

• 19:57Speaker 02

  Right.

• 19:58Speaker 00

  Keep going. I like this.

• 19:59Speaker 02

  You know?

• 19:59Speaker 00

  This is good.

• 20:00Speaker 02

  Primary caregiver for my kids? No. My husband and I split it fifty fifty. Like when he works, I watch them. When I work, he watches them. And now, given everything that's been going on, we also have help. My mom's out. We have someone that helps us with the kids because it's just not doable for me to do it all. So that doesn't really work, right? Takes primary responsibility for cooking, cleaning, and managing the household. Yeah, I like to cook. Okay, sue me. I like to cook. My husband burns everything, apart from a good steak, so he'll do that. But I like cooking, so I'm doing it. Household and cleaning? He does the dishes. I don't touch the dishes. There's no way you're gonna see me washing and scrubbing the dishes. Also, he cleans our house because he grew up. He grew.

• 20:45Speaker 00

  That's lucky, okay?

• 20:46Speaker 02

  His mom was like very, very specific with cleaning to where they had like Saturday crew and like, he has sisters, so like someone was in charge of the baseboard, someone was in charge of the toilet, someone was in charge of this. So he's like very like specific with how things need to be cleaned, so he does it.

• 21:01Speaker 00

  Perfect.

• 21:02Speaker 02

  So that doesn't make any sense. Supports the husband's role as the primary breadwinner? No, we both work. Like that, that doesn't make any sense. Like I provide for our family.

• 21:13Speaker 00

  So really, I think what's happening is they're taking the image of a woman in a kitchen

• 21:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:18Speaker 00

  in a gorgeous

• 21:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:20Speaker 00

  dress, and they are assuming that this is your life. And we are going back in time, and this is like a very traditional.

• 21:30Speaker 02

  I think there's also a bigger conversation to be had because everything that I've been reading online, I find it very concerning almost that we need to put women in very specific, very narrow boxes in order to make sense of them. I don't think, so why can't we do it all? Why can't we be a working mom that enjoys cooking, that enjoys being at home and taking care of our kids? But also is on the next plane out to LA to take business meetings with big executives? Like, why, why, why is, why can't that coexist? And I think that's something that's very concerning to me that a woman can't exist under any terms but the little boxes we put them in.

• 22:12Speaker 00

  And, you know, media literacy is another issue, but it's like, I do think that you are creating a brand, right? And so you're seeing consistently that something is working.

• 22:22Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 22:22Speaker 00

  And I guess when I think about that, though, some people could argue, okay, well, the way that you're presenting, we're only really seeing for a while, one version of you, which is a lot of the videos you started with is saying like, my husband is craving this, so I'm gonna make him this. And so it leaves a lot of room for assumptions, right? Well, she looks like she's wearing the dress, she looks this way, she's making this for her husband. And so some people could argue, well, for a while, we didn't see the business side of you. We didn't know any of this, so we were assuming that you're just like stuck in the kitchen making these things. But obviously now, as you've opened up more, like we're getting to know a little bit more about you.

• 23:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:02Speaker 00

  So did you at all see why people could think that way in the beginning?

• 23:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, one hundred percent.

• 23:07Speaker 00

  How did you deal with that, though?

• 23:10Speaker 02

  Crying to my husband, I'd be like, what is happening? Did they not know that I worked as a model? I've been working since I've been fourteen, like all these things. But I think, I, I am very fair and compassionate. Like I understand where that can come from. But then, the more that narrative started swelling, I was like, well, let me say something. So I remember posting this video of this like morning routine and my voiceover was me being a working mom and traveling and kind of debunking all of that. But then a lot of the comments were still that narrative. And I realized that a lot of the people that are very, very stuck in this narrative do not want to be corrected.

• 23:49Speaker 00

  They, they don't want to hear that.

• 23:51Speaker 02

  No, there was this one situation with someone on my team where we were trying to work with this person and the person was like, I don't care what you say, what you do, what you show me, what Forbes articles you, you show me of her business, like she is a trad wife to me and I don't want to work with her. So that kind of opened my eyes as well to the, like, to the opposite end of, I think I could sit here all day and try to de, try to debunk this narrative when some people, not everyone, but some people just don't want to be corrected.

• 24:19Speaker 00

  No, they don't. And I also think there is a frustration around,

• 24:25Speaker 00

  people want something to just be at face value what it is.

• 24:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:29Speaker 00

  And, and some people are really lazy and don't have any interest in getting underneath something. And you can even go all the way back to the beginning days for Call Her Daddy for me. Like, the girl that only talks about sex, like, well, of course, there's more to me. And I of course saw like there was something in the market that there was no one talking about it in the way that it would like. There's so much more, but I think when you, it's easier to kind of like pigeonhole a woman and kind of keep her in that lane. I also think it's very threatening, to be honest, to think of you as more than just like a very gorgeous woman who is making these like concoctions that are so extravagant. You're also a businesswoman and you're fully aware of what you're doing and you're editing it, you're putting it together, like, then you're the whole package. And we don't like that as a woman.

• 25:10Speaker 02

  No.

• 25:10Speaker 00

  Because then you're a threat.

• 25:12Speaker 02

  Right.

• 25:12Speaker 00

  And so that's so interesting that that woman was like, I don't want to hear it.

• 25:16Speaker 02

  It was actually a guy.

• 25:18Speaker 00

  Oh, well.

• 25:18Speaker 02

  But the women aren't different. Like, I've stumbled across a fair amount of women that like are exactly like that. So I think it's not very gender specific. I think there's just a bigger issue as a society that we have.

• 25:31Speaker 00

  Can you talk to me about, in a, in a cute way, obviously, like I referenced, there's a lot of videos that you were like, my husband is craving this, so I'm gonna make it.

• 25:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:39Speaker 00

  What do you think, early days? Because I do think we've gotten to know you and Lucky a little bit more, and that just happens sometimes with time. And yes, unfortunately, you lightly having to share a little bit more, but like, early days, what were some misconceptions you felt about you and your husband and those dynamics? And how did that impact you behind the camera with the two of you?

• 25:58Speaker 02

  I, I don't really know exactly what those misconceptions are because I kind of took a step back from the internet. But I think one of them is obviously the trad wife narrative that there's like very specific gender roles. Like, do I like my husband filling up my gas tank? Absolutely. Do I like all these things that like I don't want to be doing? Yeah, I don't want to close my own suitcase, do it for me. But I think that there was all this like misconception around like him being this very specific dominant male person when behind the scenes, it's not like that. So we were always, like, we've always been very like equal and like understanding of each other and like, there was always a conversation that we had, so I never felt like whatever the public saw was what was going on.

• 26:43Speaker 00

  Interesting. I, okay, so something I took from your book that was interesting, also, congratulations.

• 26:49Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 26:50Speaker 00

  It's beautiful, homemade, we're gonna talk more about it.

• 26:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:53Speaker 00

  Um, but something you said is, a lot of what I do is tongue in cheek. I push buttons, I follow instincts. Can we talk about leaning in? Because I'm

• 27:08Speaker 00

  like, I think there's a version of like, you know it's working.

• 27:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, one hundred percent.

• 27:13Speaker 00

  If it's pissing people off, like, you're still gonna put on the dress.

• 27:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:17Speaker 00

  And it's gonna look

• 27:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:19Speaker 00

  like it's gonna look.

• 27:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:21Speaker 00

  And how do you balance that? Because I think that there are some people that can say, okay, you clearly are aware that like, people are assuming this looks a little trad wifey, right? And so some people can say, well, she's leaning in and she's, it's brilliant, she's making money off of it, but she knows who she is clearly. And then other people could say it is regressive. Like, how are you toeing that line?

• 27:43Speaker 02

  I think I've also evolved in my personal style. Like, obviously during my pregnancy, it was very feminine and kind of leaning towards that aesthetic. But now, not being pregnant, I fit all my sample size clothes, so let me just go do that. And now it's like, now I don't necessarily see where the, that trad wife angle is coming from because I don't think a trad wife would be cooking in like Scapparelli. You know, or a Moschino look straight off the runway. Like, I don't think that's what a trad wife would do. So now I understand it even less. So that's like a little tricky, but I feel like,

• 28:21Speaker 02

  you know, let them think what they're gonna think because also.

• 28:25Speaker 00

  It is interesting. I feel like I've had a lot of fascinating conversations with women in this room where it's like, we are all aware of the society we are still living in and the double standards for women. And I, I think it really paints the picture of like, hearing about that reporter. The Nara Smith who came on the scene and there were a lot of misconceptions. There, you are never gonna change specific people's opinions. They will always remember you as just that girl. I am still labeled sometimes like the girl that talks about blowjobs or whatever. And I'm like, oh my god, that was a decade ago. Like, wow, it's crazy. Like, and I've interviewed all these different people.

• 29:00Speaker 02

  I'm very detached from what the per, the public perception is, so sometimes I don't even really.

• 29:06Speaker 00

  Recognize it.

• 29:06Speaker 02

  No.

• 29:07Speaker 00

  But I think what's interesting is there's also the debate about being a woman and finding that.

• 29:16Speaker 00

  Perfect balance of like recognizing, well, why don't, why don't I just lean in?

• 29:22Speaker 02

  Right.

• 29:22Speaker 00

  Cause if this is the society we live in and this is what's happening, but not losing yourself in it.

• 29:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:27Speaker 00

  So like, I, I think that's where there's a lot of nuance to it, I guess is what I'm saying. And so the voice and the dresses, it's smart. You're monetizing off of this thing. And I get people who don't understand the nuance can just be enraged in the capacity that is lightly pushing on the boundary of like, it's a gray area. People don't like the gray area, Nora.

• 29:54Speaker 02

  But I feel like I don't mind being in the gray area. Like it's, I've kind of detached myself from what the public perception is because I know I'm not that. And I feel like, here's the thing, I tried so hard to correct the narrative, right? People didn't want to listen. I'm still kind of, I'm like, this is not what I am, so I want to make it very clear. And I, I think if people don't want to understand that, they don't want to understand that. And that's just all right to me, but I do, I do want to push people's

• 30:27Speaker 02

  mental boundaries to be like, oh, a woman can exist in all these different spaces. And I feel like I'm trying to do that. And another reason why we're talking about this is because I think people should really try to listen. Because it's not just me, I think that women in general, in all different areas of their lives get put into these categories. And I want to have that bigger conversation of let's not do that as a society. Let's let women exist in the spaces that they want to exist and not pigeonhole them into one specific thing. Because women are multifaceted. Like we do it all in whatever capacity that is, whether that's in, in the working field or at home or wherever that may be. And I think let's have a bigger conversation and not zero in on what I do.

• 31:11Speaker 02

  Because it's not accurate.

• 31:13Speaker 00

  It's such a good point, and I appreciate you clarifying that because I agree. Like it's not your job to clarify it, but it is frustrating when I think you see a woman in media who is such a good example of the double standard of like, why are we painting you in this one capacity?

• 31:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:30Speaker 00

  We're pretending like she's just slaving over her husband in the kitchen. And it's like, that's just not what it is.

• 31:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what to tell you, but let's have a bigger conversation here and see what really is the issue. Because I'm not the issue. Something that is happening for you is the issue. So let's chat about it.

• 31:48Speaker 00

  It's very threatening. It's very threatening.

• 31:50Speaker 02

  Let's chat.

• 31:59Speaker 00

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• 32:39Speaker 00

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• 33:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:59Speaker 00

  What do you think would surprise people about how you and Lucky complement each other as parents?

• 34:08Speaker 02

  Maybe how involved he is. I think there's this, I don't know what it is, but there's this like standard where people are like, he's holding the baby? He's watching the baby? What do you mean? He's watching his baby? He's a dad, of course. So I think there's this like weird societal thing that's happening where it's like, who, who's watching the baby? What do you mean he has two, like we're, he has a dad?

• 34:34Speaker 00

  And I think what's hard is people again, really struggle, like you post so much online.

• 34:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:40Speaker 00

  And so if you're the primary one that's like posting, they somehow believe that he's not a part of certain things. And it's like, no, guys, there's like a complete other life outside of social media that people choose to not post.

• 34:53Speaker 02

  I'm very selective with what I post and how I post and how much I share of my life. Because I used to be a lot more open, but then the more traction my social media got, the more people came to my page. The more people like, kind of piece things together that were so inaccurate to what was going on to where I kind of felt like I had to take a step back and really evaluate what I show and how much I show.

• 35:15Speaker 00

  Can you give an example that kind of forced you to be a little less open?

• 35:18Speaker 02

  There was this incident of me posting my kids. And then there was this Tik Tok video where someone, I don't even know how they got it, but they got like a story that I posted on Instagram about my daughter, like a year and a half prior to me even having Tik Tok. So I'm like, where did this video come from? It was an Instagram story, not even in, in feed post. And it had millions of views and it was just her sitting on the couch and she's so cute. But the comments, it had like 200,000 likes, it had like 8,000 comments or like so many. And so many of the comments were like, I can't wait for her to be older or her eyes are so pretty. Or look at those lips. And then I'd go on the profiles and it was like old men. To where I realized I'm actually doing my kids a disservice by exposing them and making them vulnerable on the internet.

• 36:03Speaker 02

  To where I'm like, okay, kids are off limits. So when I do work shoots with the kids, like there was this Skims photo shoot that we did, a holiday shoot we did last year, where I told the team, I'm like, I would love to do a family photo shoot, but these are my boundaries. And a lot of people I work with are very understanding. Skims was so understanding about it, um, so accommodating, but there's just, there's dangers on the internet that I need to protect my kids from. So that was one of those experiences or just like little like books they'd see in the back or like the whole religious thing. I'm like, mm, no, but okay, I get why you're saying that. So let me take a step back because you're actually misunderstanding things I put out.

• 36:44Speaker 02

  So I kind of put myself in this little bubble to where I, I just want to keep things that are very personal to me, personal to me.

• 36:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, like I think there's been obviously such an uptick in the conversation around posting children online. And it's a really controversial one, just because of the amount of evidence we're seeing of how destructive and exploitive it can be, um, and seeing how many disgusting people are online.

• 37:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:13Speaker 00

  And are consuming the content in a way that you wish this is not the world that we lived in. But unfortunately that is the reality. And so to some degree, it is the, the parent's job to protect the children. How have you and Lucky, like what is the boundary of like when to share, when to not share?

• 37:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think we kind of take it situation by situation. Because if Vogue came knocking on my door and they were like, we want you and the kids on the cover. I'd be like, well, if my kid grows up and I say no to that, would they feel like they missed out on something? Like, I don't know. They're like, we definitely talk about it situation by situation. But when it comes to social media and social media content, no kids faces. I don't want them being recognized. I don't want anything. So I just, they're a part of my life. So obviously they can be a part of my content, but then it's just them running around or whatever to not see their face. So I feel like I'm still navigating kind of how to.

• 38:14Speaker 02

  What to show and what not to show because I I care about my community and I love that we're all in this together and that people like show up and support and like I've really build a close relationship with my community to where I feel like I really want you guys to see as much of my life as you can, but then also I know that I have to set boundaries because if I don't, then

• 38:35Speaker 00

  What are you gonna do?

• 38:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:36Speaker 00

  It's also so hard. It's so interesting. You're saying this because I, you know, I was talking to someone recently about it. And the conversation around sharing your children online. I'm like, it's so crazy to me, though, that the people who don't. You see a lot of women get like, oh, she must be a bad mother. Like, we never see her with her kid. And I'm like, I'm already ready for that for me. Cause I'm like, oh, my God, people are gonna be like, she's never with her kid. I'm like, no, no, no. I don't post my kid.

• 39:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:04Speaker 00

  There's a very different, but again, if it's like they don't see it, then they don't believe it.

• 39:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. That's, that's kind of been an ongoing thing. It's like, oh, where are your kids? What are you doing? Like, Lucky never, he's never with his kids. I'm like, if I were to turn this camera around, you would see four screaming kids and Lucky trying to wrangle them all. But I'm, I'm not sparing you. And all you see is me in my pretty dress making Skittles. Okay?

• 39:30Speaker 00

  Because we're just keeping it for the brand. We're uploading a video that you wanna see.

• 39:34Speaker 02

  Right.

• 39:34Speaker 00

  Enjoy.

• 39:35Speaker 02

  Right.

• 39:36Speaker 00

  Talking about motherhood and family, what is something from your own childhood?

• 39:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:41Speaker 00

  That you are intentionally wanting to replicate?

• 39:45Speaker 02

  I think the curiosity. I feel like growing up, I was always very encouraged to be curious and ask about things and understand how things work and be knowledgeable about things. My dad was very German growing up. He would play, he would play this game with us where he'd get a globe. It would light up like a world globe. And he would spin the globe and then he'd like stop it. And then he'd like point to this. He's like, what is this country? What's the capital? How many people live there? And we do, that was like our, like, he would not chase us around the yard. He would do that with us. Or he would get me this like really thick. I remember it was like thick, purple velvet,

• 40:24Speaker 02

  just book about Greek mythology and he would like quiz me on it or like a book about Marie Antoinette. And I was like, what, six or seven? So I think just that knowledge and that curiosity, it's made me very aware of things and like, I've always had this like deep feeling of just, but why? Why are we doing this? Why are you saying these things to me? Like, what's the bigger message? And I want my kids to like really have that understanding of the world and like really dig deep when it comes to things. I don't want them to be followers. I want them to be leaders, strong leaders.

• 40:59Speaker 00

  Have you noticed at all? Cause I know they're young, but like, have you noticed any of them having that same curiosity that you have?

• 41:04Speaker 02

  Oh, Rumble, my five year old, she's exactly like me. I'm like, um, tone it down a little bit.

• 41:10Speaker 00

  Where you're like, hold on.

• 41:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's really funny seeing their personalities slowly emerge. Rumble is like me. Slim is like Lucky, very quiet and reserved, but so smart and so brilliant. Whimsy, she's like our little fiery one, but I

• 41:24Speaker 00

  She's the third.

• 41:25Speaker 02

  She's the third.

• 41:26Speaker 00

  I'm the third. Sounds like me.

• 41:28Speaker 02

  So you get it.

• 41:29Speaker 00

  You're just constantly pushing buttons.

• 41:31Speaker 02

  Pushing buttons, but she also like, no one's gonna tell her crap. And she's also very aware of situations to where like, if she doesn't like someone, there's a reason. So I'm never like, be nice. No.

• 41:43Speaker 00

  You don't question her.

• 41:44Speaker 02

  No, I don't question her. No, cause she's very observant. And then Fani is just nine months. She's along for the ride.

• 41:49Speaker 00

  We're gonna figure that out. Yeah, we're gonna figure out Fani soon. I'll see you, I'll see you later and you'll give me the update.

• 41:54Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 41:54Speaker 00

  Is there anything that you're doing differently that you're like, oh, I wanna change that from my childhood?

• 42:01Speaker 02

  Patience. I think my, my parents weren't very patient. So I think just being patient and trying to really get on their level.

• 42:10Speaker 00

  Which from what I understand is like a huge thing for parenthood that you're like,

• 42:15Speaker 02

  I'm struggling.

• 42:16Speaker 00

  Patience?

• 42:17Speaker 02

  Patience.

• 42:18Speaker 00

  Before you're like, don't freak out, just give yourself some patience. That word. I need to paint that everywhere in my home.

• 42:25Speaker 02

  No, truly. I think that's something that has been really hard for me because I'm very like, let's just do it. Let's just like, why aren't you putting on your shoes? Like, let's, let's go. And I just really had to like take a deep breath. And I'm like, they're, they're tiny humans. That's what I remind myself of. They're like tiny humans that haven't done a lot before. And you just need to realize that like putting yourself in the state of mind therein. Like, of course they're asking me why they have to go to bed because they don't know what time it is or what's going on. Sure.

• 42:55Speaker 00

  Patience.

• 42:56Speaker 02

  Patience.

• 42:57Speaker 00

  Um, what did love look like in your house to you of like your parents?

• 43:03Speaker 00

  What is that face?

• 43:04Speaker 02

  You know, um, my parents have a really complicated relationship. They've always been so loving and they, they were the best. Well, they are, were. They are the best parents ever. They've taught me so much and have really grown a lot also. And now as an adult, I see them totally different. I think being married now and having kids where I might've been hurt as a teenager being like, why are you guys fighting? Or why are you doing this? Or now I have a lot of compassion for each of them individually and together to where I understand the choices that they've made. I understand why they did certain things. So I think my relationship with them has really changed and evolved over all these years. But

• 43:49Speaker 02

  yeah, they didn't have the best marriage and they didn't have the best dynamic at home. So a lot of

• 43:56Speaker 02

  a lot of things that I'm unlearning now stemmed from that, but I love them so much and I have a great relationship with both of them.

• 44:02Speaker 00

  Did they stay together or did they?

• 44:04Speaker 02

  They're still together, but it was very tumultuous. So, you know.

• 44:08Speaker 00

  No, but I think that's interesting of like, when, when a lot of people grew up in a tumultuous situation with watching their parents, but then there was a divorce or a separation. That also can teach you to like really stick things through, but like, at what point is, should you not, right? And so like, I'm sure there's, yeah, I'm sure there's things that you're trying to figure out of like, how do you handle conflict when you and Lucky are fighting? If you watch something very particular and specific repeated in your household, there's like some unlearning that has to go on.

• 44:42Speaker 02

  Yeah. And the older I get, the more I realize that. My parents are great parents, but when it comes to their marriage, they were not the best example for marriage whatsoever. So I think then getting married, married at a really young age, we got married when I was 18 and had our first baby when I was 19. So I never had a good example of how to navigate conflict, how to navigate a disagreement, how to navigate speaking my mind without feeling like I cannot, like all these things that were internal to me, not so much about my partner, right? It was, was never that much about my partner. It was more about me and the things that I've learned. And we, we've gone to couples therapy. I think that's a great tool.

• 45:22Speaker 02

  I think doing therapy yourself and like really just looking, I feel like being married is like a mirror. Like you're all of a sudden in this space where you're confronted by all the things that you may or may not be doing wrong or things that you've learned that might not be the best for you. And then all of a sudden you have to work on that because elsewise, your relationship will not be the way that you'd want it to be.

• 45:45Speaker 00

  And like thinking about that, Nora, I completely agree. And then adding on the level of having children in the midst of also trying to be, you're young, you're taking care of yourself, you're, you know, fostering your relationship with your husband. And then I know you've got four kids in five years.

• 46:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, my oldest is five. Yeah, yeah.

• 46:06Speaker 00

  In five years. Last year you did post about struggling with postpartum anxiety.

• 46:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:12Speaker 00

  And can you just describe what those first few weeks after having your daughter and giving birth? Like, what were those like?

• 46:23Speaker 02

  Each pregnancy was so different. My first pregnancy and my first experience postpartum was like, what the heck is happening? Because I feel like we always talk about conceiving and then being pregnant and then birth. But what happens after? And I think being young and maybe me, I was very impulsive. I'm like, whatever. Yeah, I'll have a baby. Um, so I never really sat, I never did a birthing class. I've never read like a, a book to the end. Sure. Did I start, you know, those like books that you always get the like baby, whatever?

• 46:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 46:55Speaker 02

  I got a few pages in and then I'm like, whatever. So I, I clearly didn't really know a lot. But then when I had my first baby, even giving birth, I'm like, oh, the baby's out. Great. And then they're like, okay, you need to keep pushing, get the placenta. I'm like, what placenta? What are you talking about? I had no idea. And then postpartum, you all of a sudden, well, I gave birth in like my midwife's office, which was had a bedroom. So it was like a birthing center, but not really. I don't know. It was a room with whatever. So I got sent home with this baby right after giving birth. And I'm like, I don't know what to do. I have no idea. But I'm just gonna follow my gut. I've always been the type of person to like, I know in my gut what's right and I know I'll know what to do. And then I had my mom in law there as well to help.

• 47:40Speaker 02

  Cause it was during COVID, so my parents couldn't come. But that first experience was really rough. But I think I also just like kept it pushing. But then my fourth experience, and then each experience was rough in whatever way, but my fourth experience was she was a surprise baby. So we were done after our third. And then I found out I was pregnant with her and I was freaking out. I remember like everyone I called, my agent, my pa, didn't tell my parents for the longest time. I didn't really wanna tell my agent, but then I'm like, I don't fit anything. I need to tell her. I was at like, I was at the Scaparelli show wearing this dress and I just remember I flew into Paris that same morning and I was just throwing up on the way there. I'm like, I actually need to tell people.

• 48:25Speaker 02

  So I was terrified because I just, I don't know what that feeling was, but I just knew I was at a point in my career and in my home life where I felt very settled and I knew what the pregnancy would do to my body and my mental and like all these things and my stamina.

• 48:40Speaker 00

  Speaking it into existence would make it more overwhelming.

• 48:42Speaker 02

  Yes. So I didn't wanna tell anyone, took the longest time to tell people. I truly like, really just didn't think about it at all until it hit me right before she was born. I'm like, oh, I'm actually having a baby. And then like all the emotions kind of came in and then I went into labor. On my birthday, actually, right after midnight, she was born. It was a great labor, whatever. I gave birth. I was sitting there. Lucky helped. And we were sitting there and then the next morning I woke up and that was one of this, it was one of the scariest experiences postpartum for me because it genuinely felt like

• 49:22Speaker 02

  everything was a dream. I told my, I told Lucky, I was like, it feels like I'm gonna wake up tomorrow and I would have never been pregnant. I don't have a baby. I don't like, this doesn't feel real. What is happening? I was terrified. I told him like, I don't feel like I'm here. Am I here? Like, did I die? Like, I looked at him one night and I'm like, did I die? And he got so concerned, he called his sister and his mom and he's like, is this normal? Like, what's going on? And then I didn't tell my midwife because there was like this whole, I just have, sometimes I have a hard time conveying like hard emotions to people because I want to be seen as this very like collected, strong woman to where I don't want people to think I'm unwell. No pun intended.

• 50:06Speaker 02

  Um, and it was really hard and I, I had really bad postpartum anxiety. For like two weeks, I remember I didn't tell anyone I gave birth online. It took me like a hot minute to like let people know because it felt like it didn't happen. Every morning I'd wake up looking at this baby being like, who are you? And I'd never had that experience before and that was really, really hard. And then the postpartum anxiety kicked in to where I was like, well, I don't know what to do. Like, I don't know. And then through it all, I still had to work. Like, three weeks after she was born, I was shooting cookbook images. And where was it? The Catskills or somewhere like, somewhere like an hour and a half. I don't know where it was, but we were shooting at this house and

• 50:50Speaker 02

  she was three weeks old and I just had to keep it pushing. So it was almost this like,

• 50:57Speaker 02

  I was so disconnected from myself.

• 50:59Speaker 00

  And your body and your reality.

• 51:02Speaker 02

  Like everything. It felt like I was living this like warped reality. And it took me a hot minute to find myself back in my body and like,

• 51:10Speaker 00

  Understandably.

• 51:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then the minute I did, I was like, oh, we've got a rhythm here. You know, like everything's okay. We find out whimsy has cancer. It was just a mess. And then on top of all of that, I was still posting my videos. I was still posting stories and being like, today my kids were, while internally I was like crumbling. Truly crumbling. And I was like zipping up my dresses, being like, okay, let's just go do it. Let's just take the meeting. Oh, next flight out to here. Okay, I'm bringing the baby. Oh, pumping. Okay, wait. Like, it felt like this, like,

• 51:41Speaker 00

  You're just going in autopilot to just get through, get through, get through, get through. And you're like not processing any of it.

• 51:45Speaker 02

  For the book. Like, there was no messing around. There was no messing around.

• 51:49Speaker 00

  I think that something that you're describing is probably one of the more realistic experiences that women have after birth. And I think that even saying that out loud, there's a lot of women that are like, is that, is that true? And it's like, yes. Like, almost, I would say, let's say I have 10 of my girlfriends that have children. Seven of them have had extreme postpartum anxiety, really intrusive thoughts. Like, I remember when I got pregnant and my friend came to me and basically was like, I just want to say something, not to freak you out, but I want to say it before you give birth because I need you to remember this moment.

• 52:29Speaker 02

  What'd she say?

• 52:29Speaker 00

  She basically was like, there is a chance, and I hope it doesn't happen to you, but there is a chance you are gonna have some really crazy, dark thoughts.

• 52:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:38Speaker 00

  Like crazier than you could probably ever imagine. Really intrusive thoughts. And it's okay. And it's actually way more normal, but no one talks about it because as a woman, like you just said, you didn't tell your midwife because you want to present as strong. And then there's the added level of like, you just gave birth. You should be so happy. You should present as this okay figure. Because also like the mother not being okay, like, oh my God, what's wrong with you? Because now we don't have as much empathy anymore because you don't have the baby in the belly. Like, you gotta get your shit together. And so there's all these pressures to like bounce back and get back. And it's like, I can't imagine the internal struggle emotionally

• 53:20Speaker 00

  that you were going through and that you had to fight that battle somewhat on your own. Of course, you can share it with your husband, but like, it's on you in, in a capacity. Of course, you should share it, but like, it's overwhelming.

• 53:32Speaker 02

  It's so overwhelming. And I think it doesn't get talked about enough and there's not a safe enough space for women to really voice how they're feeling. And I think it is really important, though, postpartum to be open. I think that's what I learned through my last experience. I'm like, I really wish I would have told my midwife or gotten a therapist or someone to just help navigate because on a physical level, like your hormones plummet. That's just what it is. Like, you go through like the largest plummet in your hormones that you can.

• 54:02Speaker 00

  Can possibly have in your life.

• 54:04Speaker 02

  Right. So I think as women, I, I really encourage everyone that's, that's having a hard postpartum experience to really seek help because I promise you're not gonna get seen as weak or not capable or whatever. More so, it will give you the tools to really have that community. And even with intrusive thoughts, like, no one talks about it because it's, it's scary because you don't want anyone to think that you would ever do anything to your baby or that you would harm yourself or that whatever it is. And no one really creates that safe space of it being okay. But it is okay. And you can also have people in your space that will understand and help you navigate it.

• 54:41Speaker 00

  So many women who've gone through it would be like, I'm just telling you, they're like, yes. But to a normal person, maybe who,

• 54:46Speaker 02

  They're like, what's wrong with you? You need help. But not in a way that's bad, more so in a way of like, let's support and give you a good foundation to feel your best. Not because you're bad, but because you need a stable foundation.

• 55:01Speaker 00

  And I also think like, when you, there is something in life where it's like, if this is happening so regularly, that is then the norm. Like, that is normal to, it's not normal to live like that forever, but there is clearly scientifically proven that women, after all of these hormones drop, like, you're going to go through this potentially.

• 55:21Speaker 02

  It needs to be talked about.

• 55:22Speaker 00

  It needs to be talked about. I hope this makes women feel less alone. And also, we're hopefully, just through this conversation, chipping away a little bit at the stigma of postpartum, the anxiety, the intrusive thoughts, like, you are not alone, you are not crazy. And that is where I think women coming together and talking about it makes other women finally feel like, oh, oh my God, there's like a woman that's gonna watch this right now and be like, girls, I never needed that more than to hear that I'm not insane for having these thoughts.

• 55:53Speaker 02

  No, you've just gone through the most life altering experience ever that you will ever go through. Give yourself grace and also recognize that you literally, you've grown a human being, every single bit of this human being you've grown, from nails to hair follicles to organs, to brain, to skull, everything. And then you've given birth to this human being. And then what? You're just supposed to resume business as usual? No, that's like physically not how it works and mentally not how it works. And I think we talk about the physical maybe even more than the mental. Like, I feel like postpartum in general is not talked about enough, but if we do talk about it, it's like, oh, you're gonna

• 56:33Speaker 02

  have this, or you're gonna not be able to do this, or like, let's figure out the nursing or whatever it may be, but no one necessarily talks about all the things that could happen mentally after.

• 56:43Speaker 00

  It's so true. I was thinking about that, um, because it is such an adjustment from your, your mind and your body and, and they're both going through such different things.

• 56:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:53Speaker 00

  A large conversation around postpartum bodies. I mean, that's a constant conversation, but I feel like you kind of got put into the mix after you gave birth to Fani.

• 57:07Speaker 02

  I did.

• 57:08Speaker 00

  Some people online really celebrated how quickly you appeared to recover and they were talking about, you know, I think it was like a mirror selfie or whatever it was or a picture of you. Um, and then while others talked about, you know, the pressure that this puts on women to bounce back after having a baby, how did you feel about being a part of that conversation and how have you navigated that?

• 57:33Speaker 02

  I think that's, postpartum looks so different for everybody. Bodies are different for everybody. Some, some people bounce back really quick. Some people don't. Some people get stretch marks, some people don't. I think that we as women should uplift every single woman postpartum. And I think, yes, did I post a picture that maybe evoked emotion in other women or other people in general? Yes, but what people don't realize is that to me, that picture wasn't me at my best and my normal. I was crying that same morning. I was wearing a diaper in that picture. I was wearing linen pants because I didn't fit a single one of my denim pants that I had. I was way above my usual weight. Like, I didn't feel

• 58:17Speaker 02

  like myself and I posted that picture being like, I don't feel like myself, but my body is magical because look what it just did. And I'm really proud of that. And that was my postpartum experience, but I think in general, we should celebrate everyone for where they're at postpartum.

• 58:34Speaker 00

  I completely agree. I think that there's such a pressure when it comes to

• 58:41Speaker 00

  The even just the concept of bounce back culture again focusing more on like how we do it mentally girlies like the body is the most incredible thing that like women and the fact that we are able to do what we're able to do in these moments is insane and so just to be alive after that experience is like yes I'm happy and so I think understandably people are going to have insecurities that come with again extreme changes but to put another woman down for how something she can't control and also you shouldn't feel like you have to hide

• 59:15Speaker 02

  Also, my experience wasn't I think it's one thing what the public sees but then it's also so different to how I feel I think that being a mother looks so different for every single person and I think we should really celebrate everyone for where they're at and the safety that it takes to share whatever they want to share like I think that we should really just make it a safe space for women in general regardless of what your postpartum looks like whether you bounce back or you don't because to me someone bouncing back might look a certain way right I'm like oh that because I compare myself to sometimes I'm like oh that mom really just did it she's thriving she just did this but being a mom myself and having gone through

• 59:57Speaker 02

  birth I'm like what she shows me is probably her best or she wants to show parts of herself that she feels really good about or that she wants to share for whatever purpose that may be I'm not going to compare myself to anyone

• 1:00:10Speaker 00

  I was gonna say I think that actually leads us perfectly into this next conversation because it really is such an indicator of like guys we also just anything you see on social media you don't have the full story even freaking close like at this point I am convinced we are maximum in moments getting 10% of a lot of people's lives and that is some for some people generous yeah like you said as you are navigating postpartum you find out that your daughter whimsy has cancer yeah can you explain just like how you decided for you and your family that it was the right time to even share this news publicly

• 1:00:54Speaker 02

  It took a lot I told myself I'm not gonna get emotional

• 1:01:00Speaker 02

  sorry

• 1:01:06Speaker 02

  sorry

• 1:01:08Speaker 00

  I got tissues you're good

• 1:01:10Speaker 02

  Um

• 1:01:12Speaker 02

  I think I mean it all boiled down to when we found out about everything and then all the behind the scenes and everything that was going on lucky and I did have those conversations and my fear I always had this like lingering fear well what if someone takes a video of us in the hospital and they put it out or because when we were in the hospital people would come up to us and say hey can I get a picture with you can like can you say hi to my friend and they probably didn't know that we were going through the hardest time of our lives so obviously I smiled and said of course you can and took the picture but I was always nervous that people would kind of piece it together or someone would talk or someone would whatever and to me her safety and privacy

• 1:01:55Speaker 02

  was the most important thing so I would always go back and forth with lucky and saying should we just share it should we just talk about it what if someone else does and he's like but that doesn't matter like what do you feel like in your heart and I always came back to the fact like I don't want to share it I don't want to like talk about it I don't want her out there I don't want any of that so then as time went on and as we went through all the treatments and had really hard days and slightly easier days I found a lot of community in the hospital talking to parents or the nurses or going on Reddit and like reading people's stories like all of that and the more I kind of went through that I realized that I find a lot of comfort in knowing

• 1:02:38Speaker 02

  that I'm not alone so then when she right after her birthday she she was in remission we finished her last treatment we rang the bell it was very emotional and I just realized well maybe if I use my platform to make even just one person feel less alone I can do that and that's kind of why we shared it

• 1:03:05Speaker 00

  I can't even imagine Nora you

• 1:03:09Speaker 00

  being in that hospital and the anxiety of trying to protect your baby and also being this public person and I'm sure there was just like so many emotions around like oh my god I wanted like turn this part of my life off right now because like this is all that matters and I can I can't imagine the anxiety on top of already like the trauma that you and your family are having to endure

• 1:03:35Speaker 02

  It was really hard

• 1:03:37Speaker 00

  When you found out this diagnosis like what do you remember about that day

• 1:03:43Speaker 02

  I just remember we were actually coming back from a big family photo shoot the holiday one and my mother-in-law she talked to lucky and she was like I I saw this thing don't be alarmed but like maybe you should look at it and talk to Nora about it so then lucky came into the room I was nursing Fani and he said don't freak out honey not that I usually freak out but like he was like just just look at it and see how you feel should I take her to the doctor I was like like what happened did she get hurt or like what's going on and then he was like no I don't think so my mom just saw this so then he was like I was just like let's just be safe and take her to the ER

• 1:04:23Speaker 02

  then we took her to the ER the ER was like we don't really know what to make of this just tell us if it gets worse and I was like okay well maybe it's just like a kid thing I don't know so then later that week I took Fani to the pediatrician for the first time so I rang him and I was like this is what's going on with whimsy do you think I can bring her to just have a look so we walk in there and he does her first so he looks at her and then I just remember him going quiet he went quiet and like very calm and collected and in that moment like my heart just dropped and there was this like weird gut feeling of being like oh she has cancer I know she has because my mom before that she'd gone through a year of chemo treatments for breast cancer and

• 1:05:06Speaker 02

  it was gruesome and it was so hard to watch her go through that and there was always this lingering fear of this like sickness that would come so then I was like oh she has cancer but I didn't want to say it to lucky like I did hint at it and he was like no honey you can't like you can't think like that so then he didn't even I don't even think he looked at Fani really he was like you guys need to take her to like the closest hospital so the closest hospital was the Yale New Haven Children's Hospital so I drove back home with Fani because our other kids were at home and he took whimsy and long story short there were a bunch of like biopsies ultrasounds

• 1:05:47Speaker 02

  scans whatever and then a week after that initial visit we got a phone call and I just remember standing in the living room and the phone rang and it was this like weird gut feeling I'm like oh it's the hospital they're gonna tell us she has cancer I looked at lucky and I'm like this is it let's just brace ourselves and like it's cancer and then

• 1:06:09Speaker 02

  you could just tell by the voice and they were like we're so sorry she has cancer you guys need to start like treatment immediately and then they took her and then she started treatment they tested her further did a few more scans and they were like it's really it's spread in her body so like you guys need to this is the treatment plan this is what she has to do and it was really hard so we lucky kind of did the majority of the because you would go home and then she would go to the hospital for five days and stay there from Monday to Friday every like 16 ish days depending on what her blood count was and lucky did those overnight stays because I had Fani at home that I was nursing and I couldn't be away from her so I would go during the day and

• 1:06:53Speaker 02

  then obviously try to also work and like do that so it was like playing Tetris almost and then we had our other kids so it was really really hard and it was a really tough experience and every day you would wake up and not quite know what's gonna what the day is gonna bring what the doctors are gonna say what like is the treatment working is it not like all these different things to where it it was really hard yeah

• 1:07:18Speaker 00

  Nora I like I am so sorry even just hearing you like no parent should ever have to experience this no child should ever have to experience this I can't imagine the emotional toll also of trying to be present for multiple children while also wanting to be present for the one child that is sick and going through it yeah it also sounds like so such a blessing to have such an incredible partner yeah who was able to take this on while you were taking this on over here I I'm curious like in that darkest moment where you so you get that phone call as a couple like what how did you

• 1:08:00Speaker 02

  I think it was a lot of being on autopilot because I think when I'm faced with a crisis whatever that crisis may be I'm like okay there's no time for emotions there's no time for anything it's like zoning in and doing it so I think at first like we didn't process it but I think it was we were both on autopilot making sure that she was all right making sure our other kids were all right and it didn't really hit us yet right so we were like okay let's let's do it it's like fine I guess and we were very communicate like we communicated a lot I was checking in with him like how are you doing what are we doing like he was checking in with me because you always hear when couples go through a really hard time it either makes or breaks you and a lot of the times

• 1:08:43Speaker 02

  I feel like I've heard about couples kind of drifting away but I feel like it's even it's brought lucky and me even closer together because we were we really had to rally for whimsy so

• 1:08:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was, that was just an insane experience. And then the more time went on, her hair started falling out and you like could physically see it like she would get really nauseous and like all the things that come with someone going through chemo treatment. And I think that's when it kind of hit both of us. And then we started like crumbling a little bit to where when I had a hard day with it, he picked me up when he had a hard day, I picked him up and we were like, let's just keep going. It felt like we were, you know, that game where you're like tied to someone else and you have to make it to the finish line together. That's what it felt like. And every time I was like, I don't think I can go any further. He was like, yes, you can like, you can and then vice versa. So I think it really it required a lot, a lot out of both of us, but we made it.

• 1:09:41Speaker 00

  How did you explain just like the changes that were happening to your other children?

• 1:09:48Speaker 02

  I think they were at an age where they could kind of get it, but kind of not. But there was this book. I don't remember the name of the book, but it was this book about cancer that a mom wrote after her kid went through, I think it was brain cancer to like make sense of this situation. So we read this book, I think it was something and the hair fairy or something. To where it talked about like this, this cancer, it was like described as like a gummy ball in your body or something like that and that you would lose your hair. And then the hair fairy would come and like, you should just put your hair somewhere and it's gonna take the hair. And like, it was a very beautiful kid's story and all my five year old took away from that was like, I want the hair fairy to come.

• 1:10:33Speaker 02

  So I was like, I don't think it works like that, but like, sure. And then as time went on, like they would have these random questions to where I also realized like, maybe it is like on their minds to where I would like Slim would ask me, is it like, can I get cancer? I'm like, no, it's not contagious. It's like trying to explain it, but they would ask these questions in the most random situations to where I knew that I just had to be like extra present with them and extra loving and kind of just explain things a little bit better for them. But yeah.

• 1:11:07Speaker 00

  What um, what kept you hopeful in some of your darkest moments?

• 1:11:13Speaker 02

  Knowing that I wasn't alone, like the community and knowing that there is parents out there that are and have gone through similar experiences that have made it out the other end and were fine, I guess, in whatever way you want to interpret that. But also just the fact that I can't give up hope. If I give up hope, whimsy will and I need to show up for my daughter and I need to make sure she's all right. And she like, she will be all right. I'm gonna make sure of that. And if it's not this treatment, it will be next treatment. Like there was, there's never, there was never the thought of like giving up emotionally or physically to me.

• 1:11:51Speaker 00

  Do you have any, if someone, a parent is listening right now who happens to be going through something similar, like, do you have any advice that you would want to share?

• 1:11:59Speaker 02

  I just want people to talk about their emotions with anyone that they feel comfortable with. I think it can feel like a very, very isolating experience that you don't really think anyone else would understand or go through or whatever. But the more community you seek, the more you'll find people showing up for you in ways that you never thought they will. Like even by sharing that I've had so many people reach out and offer support, even though now we're in remission. So it, I, I waited until we were because I never, like, I couldn't stomach going through everything at the same time. But having people reach out or sharing their own stories or even sharing how other people

• 1:12:43Speaker 02

  showed up for them. I think community is so important and I want you to go seek that.

• 1:12:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:12:48Speaker 02

  Because there's a huge community out there. That's so beautiful.

• 1:12:52Speaker 00

  How do you think this experience has changed your family's just like day to day life now?

• 1:12:59Speaker 02

  I think it's made me at least really be present and grateful for every moment that we have. It's made me really just see even the small mundane things as something that

• 1:13:14Speaker 02

  I enjoy doing and I want to find the beauty in and make extra special. Like even if it's setting a table a little bit more elaborate than I wanted to or making them their favorite meal. Cause like, why can't we have mac and cheese tonight? I, I, I'll make mac and cheese, you know? So I think it really made me cherish those small moments that before I was very nonchalant about.

• 1:13:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:13:34Speaker 02

  You know?

• 1:13:35Speaker 00

  In what ways do you think this experience allowed you to see Lucky in a different light?

• 1:13:42Speaker 02

  I've never thought about that question in that way, but I think seeing how tender he is and so loving and supportive and like there was no, and optimistic, like there was not a single moment where he didn't show up for whimsy, for me, for the kids, for everybody as like a strong partner and father. And sure, did, did he have really hard moments that we worked through together? Absolutely. But it just showed me just how beautiful this family is that we've built together and how each and every person has a part that's so integral for all of it to work properly.

• 1:14:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, I remember you had said um, that you guys had gone to couples therapy before, like, how did the foundation that you guys have built really prove to be a solid foundation during this time?

• 1:14:38Speaker 02

  Ah, it, I, like, this is something that no one thinks is gonna happen, right? So when we went to couples therapy, I was like, let's just do it to really build a strong foundation. I wanted to make sure that we have the tools because he grew up in a different way than I did. And we both bring baggage that maybe we're aware of, or maybe we're unaware of and therapy gets a bad rap. Couples therapy gets a really bad rap. It's like, oh, you're gonna get divorced. That's why you're going to therapy.

• 1:15:05Speaker 00

  What's wrong with you guys?

• 1:15:05Speaker 02

  What's, what's wrong? Sometimes like nothing's wrong and you just want to have the tools to have the best life. Like I want to have the best life in every aspect of my life. And that to me comes with work, sometimes harder, sometimes easier, but it's work nevertheless. So we kind of learned the tools of, I think one thing that was really big for us is communication. We kind of talked at each other a lot, but never with each other. So I think that came real, and really handy with this experience to where even though I might have felt whatever I felt, I created the space for him to feel the way he felt and for him to communicate that with me and for us to work through that together and really be heard by each other.

• 1:15:47Speaker 00

  Oh, my God, I can't even imagine how integral that was to the success essentially of you being able to just like every day get through this because like you said, I, I agree. I think you hear so many stories understandably of people losing their way with their partner because grief and trauma, like you're, you're trying to regulate and you're trying to be there for your child who you're putting first. And so like, it kind of becomes an afterthought sometimes about your partner. It kind of has to be.

• 1:16:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:17Speaker 00

  And so I think to know that you guys were able to really try to tap into that is so beautiful.

• 1:16:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:24Speaker 00

  And I'm just also probably so beautiful for your other children to try to.

• 1:16:28Speaker 02

  My best friend. And I think that's also what really helped. Like he's not just my romantic partner. Like he truly is my best friend and I don't know what I would do without him. So it almost like our friendship and our understanding of each other really helped in every aspect. And our kids too, like they, I think having that relationship to, sure, do we fight sometimes or bicker or argue? Absolutely. Our relationship is not perfect. Like, I don't think anyone's relationship with anyone is perfect, but I think our kids have seen us like really rally and they've seen us maybe have an argument. I think it's healthy sometimes for them to see that. But then also see the resolution of it and how we find our way back to

• 1:17:11Speaker 02

  common ground. Like I think all of that was really important for them to see. And I think it's just been a really humbling experience and hard.

• 1:17:22Speaker 00

  You have been through, how old are you?

• 1:17:25Speaker 02

  Twenty-four.

• 1:17:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:30Speaker 00

  You have been through so much life.

• 1:17:32Speaker 02

  I have.

• 1:17:33Speaker 00

  And you are so impressive.

• 1:17:36Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:17:37Speaker 00

  Obviously, you're now coming out with this cookbook.

• 1:17:40Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:17:41Speaker 00

  Homemade. It comes out October thirteenth.

• 1:17:42Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:17:43Speaker 00

  And it's so interesting because we've watched you on TikTok. We've watched you making these concoctions, but to now put it into a book, and I love it because it's not just recipes. You're actually kind of telling the story of like how you got to where you are today. Why did you feel like now was the right moment to do something like this?

• 1:18:03Speaker 02

  When I started with the whole TikTok thing and my recipes and videos gained traction, a lot of the comments were, we need a recipe book. Where are the recipes? So I started with my Substack and then just realized that I, I love a good book. I really do. So I, I'd also never owned a cookbook, which is weird. I'd never owned a cookbook and then writing this, my publisher was like, um, so have you ever read a cookbook? I'm like, no. She's like, you need to go, go get some. Um, but through this whole process, I just realized I want all of my recipes in a book that can live on someone's counter and be kind of timeless. I want it to be on your counter for a very long time.

• 1:18:42Speaker 00

  Hold up the book. I want to see it.

• 1:18:45Speaker 02

  The cover was a whole thing.

• 1:18:47Speaker 00

  Promo that thing, girl.

• 1:18:48Speaker 02

  No, it's so cute. Even the back, like it took, it's, it's a labor of love.

• 1:18:54Speaker 00

  Something I also need you to talk about is, um, there is someone that is very reoccurring in this book that you often bring up. And your grandmother.

• 1:19:03Speaker 02

  Oh, I'm like, who are we, who are we talking about?

• 1:19:06Speaker 00

  Your grandmother.

• 1:19:07Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:19:08Speaker 00

  Um, what is one of your earliest memories with her in the kitchen? Cause I know that she inspired a lot of your love for cooking.

• 1:19:15Speaker 02

  Her and I were really, really close. She was the one that taught me how to play the piano, how to read. Like she was very much involved. And I just remember there were a few things that she would make a lot. One of them was oatmeal, like this cinnamon rich oatmeal. I've never been able to recreate it, but it was phenomenal. And that was one of my first memories with her in the kitchen to where she would like wrap my hands around the spoon, tell me how to stir it, plate it up, sprinkle it with more cinnamon. And she was just this warm, very, and then we'd sit on this like banquet in her kitchen and behind us, it was just like a wall of black and white cat pictures.

• 1:19:53Speaker 00

  That's such a grandma thing.

• 1:19:54Speaker 02

  Whole wall full of cat pictures. I'm like, this is crazy. But yeah, that was one of my first memories and she's always been like an inspiration. Even like I got psychic readings once by like this religious medium. It was my grandma that would pop up in all these things. And she was like, your grandma's wanting you to know this. Your grandma's really proud. Your grandma's like looking over you. When I see her standing at the piano, what does this mean? And I'm like, crazy. So you did see her.

• 1:20:25Speaker 00

  So you didn't see her. That's, I was thinking about it too, because even you saying like, oh my God, I don't, I still haven't been able to recreate her oatmeal. Like by you putting finally your recipes in writing. I feel like you're right. So many people for so long have been like, Nara, where's the recipe?

• 1:20:40Speaker 02

  And I'm like, I've been, I can't tell you, but like, I'm working on it. I promise, but I couldn't tell anyone for two years.

• 1:20:47Speaker 00

  Okay. What is the first recipe you knew had to be in the book?

• 1:20:50Speaker 02

  Ooh, that's really hard because we were going through lists of recipes for so long. But I knew that like my kookier recipes had to be in it. Like, I know you want to know how to make an Oreo. Let me give it to you, right? Cheez-Its, you don't have to buy that anymore. Let's just make it. So those recipes are in there, but then I also cook a lot of normal meals. Like I need to feed my family. I need to feed myself. So here are some recipes that I actually like genuinely cook on and offline for.

• 1:21:18Speaker 00

  Right. They're a little less.

• 1:21:20Speaker 02

  They're like.

• 1:21:21Speaker 00

  Cheez-It.

• 1:21:21Speaker 02

  I know sometimes you just have like an hour to get dinner on the table. Let me, let me tell you how to do that.

• 1:21:26Speaker 00

  Okay. Okay. So you were giving us range.

• 1:21:28Speaker 02

  A range.

• 1:21:29Speaker 00

  I appreciate that.

• 1:21:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:30Speaker 00

  What is one recipe that took the longest to get right?

• 1:21:34Speaker 02

  There's this one recipe in there that's like a sour dough bread, but not with a starter.

• 1:21:40Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 1:21:40Speaker 02

  To where it was like, I'm not going to make you feed your starter for like, because okay, the recipe started off as like, I'm going to show you how to make your starter. Feed it every day.

• 1:21:48Speaker 00

  Yeah. Like what do I do? Like Nora, I don't know what to do with the starter.

• 1:21:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I'm like, that's like two weeks of work for a loaf of bread. I'm so sorry.

• 1:21:54Speaker 00

  Okay. So this is going to help me have no starter.

• 1:21:56Speaker 02

  No starter. You still kind of get that same thing and will only take you like five to six hours. Okay. That sounds crazy still, but like for bread, that's not that long. Cause it's also hands off work.

• 1:22:05Speaker 00

  I've heard literally people in LA like, I have got to hook up for someone who has starter.

• 1:22:09Speaker 02

  And no, I literally, no, Alex, you don't understand. My friend, she lives in Utah and she had a starter and I was at her house with my kids. And I was like moaning to her, I'm like, I don't, I had to throw my starter away. And she was like, you can have some of mine, like Willa is really doing it. And I'm like, great. So she sent me home with a starter. I flew around airport, like through security, I could take it, which I don't know whether I could actually, or whether the guy just knew me.

• 1:22:36Speaker 00

  And he was like.

• 1:22:37Speaker 02

  He's like, he's like, I see that starter. I see that starter. Just go, just go, just go. I don't know. I would travel with it and feed it like every Airbnb I was in.

• 1:22:45Speaker 00

  Feed a starter.

• 1:22:46Speaker 02

  Water and flour.

• 1:22:49Speaker 00

  I'm so stressed, Nora.

• 1:22:51Speaker 02

  No, I need to show you. It's really easy.

• 1:22:53Speaker 00

  Wanted to have fresh bread in my house.

• 1:22:55Speaker 02

  No, I love fresh bread.

• 1:22:57Speaker 00

  But I'm like.

• 1:22:57Speaker 02

  I need to send you the bread recipe in there. I also have a sandwich bread recipe. Like I think the baking ones took longer. Actually cinnamon toast crunch cereal took so long.

• 1:23:06Speaker 00

  Okay. So how like idiot proof is this?

• 1:23:10Speaker 02

  Very.

• 1:23:11Speaker 00

  Cause I'm the idiot.

• 1:23:12Speaker 02

  But here's the thing, I think a lot of people have this misconception that I'm this like professional, I'm a home cook, honey. I started cooking at the same time as you saw me starting to cook. Like when I posted on TikTok, that's when I started.

• 1:23:24Speaker 00

  Okay. That makes me feel good.

• 1:23:25Speaker 02

  Yeah. So like.

• 1:23:26Speaker 00

  So I could maybe figure something out.

• 1:23:27Speaker 02

  Some of these might be a little technical, but with the steps you can figure it out. And then some of them are so easy to where you just throw some lentils and sweet potato in a pot and you'll be fine. So I think it's range. Yeah. I wanted it to feel accessible to people. I didn't want it to feel like, oh, all you're getting is from scratch recipes. No, I wanted it to feel like an essential book that you can get started with and feel comfortable with. And like, like my cooking takes trial and error. Do you know how many times I've made things like, I tried making Twizzlers the other day? Horrible. Didn't work out. Toss that. So it really is trial and error.

• 1:24:13Speaker 00

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• 1:25:38Speaker 00

  We need your expertise.

• 1:25:39Speaker 02

  Yeah. What is it?

• 1:25:39Speaker 00

  I'm going to throw you a scenario and you're going to tell me what I should make from scratch. You ready?

• 1:25:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, tell me then.

• 1:25:47Speaker 00

  You want to impress at a dinner party. What are you bringing?

• 1:25:52Speaker 02

  I'm hosting, so I'm not, not bringing.

• 1:25:55Speaker 00

  Okay. Me being like, I will never host a dinner party. I'm the girl that orders the takeout and puts it on the plate and pretends I made it.

• 1:26:03Speaker 02

  I've never done that, but that sounds fun.

• 1:26:05Speaker 00

  Genius. Okay. What are you making for your dinner party?

• 1:26:08Speaker 02

  So here's the thing, I love a good menu and I love a theme. We have to have a theme. We have to have a menu. So let's figure out the theme and then figure out the menu after. But what I do love, I'm a little biased, like a roast chicken. Here's the thing, a roast chicken feels impressive if you do it right, but it's very hands off. It's like one of the easiest, like that's the dinner I make when I'm like, I have no idea what to make. It's a roast chicken because you like do it, pop it in the oven and then you do a bunch of sides. I like things that you could prep the night before and then just plate the next day.

• 1:26:37Speaker 00

  Done. Okay. Your kids come home from school absolutely starving. What are we making?

• 1:26:45Speaker 02

  Bread and jam.

• 1:26:46Speaker 00

  Bread and jam. That's a good answer. You're trying to seduce your future husband.

• 1:26:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. Steak and fries. With like a sexy like peppercorn sauce.

• 1:26:57Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. Okay. You need a pick me up comfort meal after a really tough day.

• 1:27:03Speaker 02

  Beef pie.

• 1:27:07Speaker 00

  Okay, your in-laws are unexpectedly coming over in 30 minutes. What are you making?

• 1:27:11Speaker 02

  Something American. Let me tell you that. Maybe a, no tacos, tacos. My dad-in-law loves his little tacos.

• 1:27:19Speaker 00

  Okay, so I make some tacos, but so different from how you like, are you making your own taco seasoning?

• 1:27:25Speaker 02

  Well, what do you mean, like mixing spices together?

• 1:27:28Speaker 00

  Oh, is that what it is?

• 1:27:30Speaker 02

  You just take like cumin and whatever and like put it all together. What do you, what do you do?

• 1:27:34Speaker 00

  Oh, I get like the, you know, the taco packs from the grocery store.

• 1:27:38Speaker 02

  Oh, that's an option.

• 1:27:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, but.

• 1:27:41Speaker 02

  I mean taco seasoning is chill. You just have to have, you have your spices and you throw it together.

• 1:27:46Speaker 00

  I never thought about it like that.

• 1:27:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:48Speaker 00

  When I said idiot in the kitchen, oh, so I could just, I could just kinda.

• 1:27:53Speaker 02

  You can just make it yourself.

• 1:27:55Speaker 00

  Well, of course.

• 1:27:55Speaker 02

  Like make your seasoning, like dry the bell pepper and like grind it and make it into paprika.

• 1:27:59Speaker 00

  Putting on the beef to make it have that little like zest.

• 1:28:02Speaker 02

  Oh, you just like, okay, you probably have a rack of spices in your kitchen, right? And you just throw them together, whatever makes sense for like the cuisine you're going for. And then I do love a good, like, I like a good sweet and hot thing. So I make my own salsas. I also have this really good recipe in my book, actually. I'm not trying to plug it, but.

• 1:28:23Speaker 00

  Hit it.

• 1:28:23Speaker 02

  Um, it's like a roasted pork situation, pork tacos with like two different salsas. And you can put the pork on in the morning and put it in your slow cooker and then not think about it until dinner.

• 1:28:34Speaker 00

  That's what I'm gonna try to make.

• 1:28:35Speaker 02

  You could either make your own tortillas if you want to, or you can just store, store bought.

• 1:28:40Speaker 00

  Store bought.

• 1:28:41Speaker 02

  I'm like, hey, don't we're not getting crazy girl far.

• 1:28:44Speaker 00

  If I'm making my own salsa.

• 1:28:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28:46Speaker 00

  Then I'm probably hitting up the tortillas at the grocery store.

• 1:28:50Speaker 02

  You know what? Or you do the tortillas and buy the salsa.

• 1:28:52Speaker 00

  Which one do you think? Which one's more impressive for me? How are you making your own? We have so, I have so many questions.

• 1:28:58Speaker 02

  Corn flour. Is it corn flour? Masaherina? Yeah. A little bit of water.

• 1:29:03Speaker 00

  Wait, what do you order for takeout? Hmm.

• 1:29:07Speaker 02

  Ooh.

• 1:29:07Speaker 00

  Is this controversial?

• 1:29:09Speaker 02

  No, I, I love a good takeout. I really do. I think sometimes there's something so beautiful about someone else cooking for me.

• 1:29:15Speaker 00

  How many nights a week are you like cooking in your household?

• 1:29:18Speaker 02

  I try to cook every night. Sometimes like, the other day my chickens got eaten by a fox and I was making chicken and I was like, there's no way. So I got takeout.

• 1:29:27Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, that feels a little.

• 1:29:29Speaker 02

  It felt a little barbaric to me. I couldn't do that.

• 1:29:32Speaker 00

  Oh, wow. So you're like, we're gonna.

• 1:29:33Speaker 02

  It depends, but I usually order takeout that I don't really wanna make myself. So it's Indian food, Thai food, Vietnamese food. I would never order something I could make, like burger, ordering a burger for takeout on Postmates, criminal activity in my opinion.

• 1:29:50Speaker 00

  Crazy.

• 1:29:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:29:52Speaker 00

  That, who would ever do that?

• 1:29:54Speaker 02

  Sometimes it's a necessity, right? But for me personally, I, I, I can't.

• 1:30:00Speaker 00

  Hate to see me coming. If I pulled up my Postmates order, you're gonna be like, Alex.

• 1:30:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, I would actually be like, let's just tweak this. How about we do Indian instead? So that, that, that I would much rather order.

• 1:30:10Speaker 00

  Okay, last one. You're over halfway through your pregnancy.

• 1:30:14Speaker 02

  Ooh.

• 1:30:14Speaker 00

  It's 10:00 PM, asking for a friend. Suddenly, you need something. You wanna make something yummy. What are we making?

• 1:30:22Speaker 02

  Like, how much time?

• 1:30:24Speaker 00

  You got an hour.

• 1:30:25Speaker 02

  Oh, that changes the game.

• 1:30:28Speaker 00

  They're, oh, 30 minutes?

• 1:30:30Speaker 02

  I would make, okay, I don't like this, but I know Americans love their chocolate chip cookies. I would make chocolate chip cookies and then I would make, well, I would probably have ice cream that I made in the freezer, but you, you postmate some vanilla ice cream and then you put your ice cream sandwich together, hot chocolate chip cookie, but like not hot, cause then it will crumble, but like warm vanilla ice cream in the middle, another chocolate chip cookie, and you press it together, get yourself an ice cream sandwich. And if you're feeling fancy, you melt some chocolate and like dip it and let it harden. You do that.

• 1:31:05Speaker 00

  I love you. I am so gonna do that. Oh, that's a good one.

• 1:31:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:31:10Speaker 00

  Oh, I'm craving that right now.

• 1:31:11Speaker 02

  No, it's good stuff. And like, you don't have to like spoon it or do the whole thing. It's like an ice cream sandwich. And you can also prep those in advance and put them in your freezer. So you can just pull them out. And you get like the perfect vanilla ice, cause sometimes when you buy the pre-made stuff, you're like, the vanilla ice cream sucks or the cookie sucks, but you can get it the way you want to get it.

• 1:31:30Speaker 00

  You are blowing my mind right now.

• 1:31:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:31:33Speaker 00

  It's, it's, it's like talking to an expert and I'm like this child that's like, I'm trying to absorb some stuff is going over my head.

• 1:31:39Speaker 02

  Pregnancy craving? Cause that's what I wanna know.

• 1:31:41Speaker 00

  Okay, so in the beginning, obviously I was like nauseous. I wasn't craving anything.

• 1:31:45Speaker 02

  Right, right, right.

• 1:31:46Speaker 00

  Then I started craving In-N-Out.

• 1:31:49Speaker 02

  A classic.

• 1:31:50Speaker 00

  A classic. And so when you're like, oh, ordering burgers, I'm like, no, no, I'm going to In-N-Out. Well, cause that's fair. That's fair.

• 1:31:56Speaker 02

  We'll take that off the list, cause that was my craving too.

• 1:31:58Speaker 00

  Okay, fair. But I would want it weirdly in a lettuce wrap.

• 1:32:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, same.

• 1:32:02Speaker 00

  And then I also wanted to get a Flying Dutchman.

• 1:32:04Speaker 02

  You're me.

• 1:32:05Speaker 00

  There's.

• 1:32:06Speaker 02

  We're one.

• 1:32:07Speaker 00

  Nora.

• 1:32:08Speaker 02

  That was me.

• 1:32:09Speaker 00

  So good.

• 1:32:10Speaker 02

  Do you do Chili's or no?

• 1:32:12Speaker 00

  Yes. Oh my God, of course.

• 1:32:13Speaker 02

  We have the same order then.

• 1:32:15Speaker 00

  So.

• 1:32:15Speaker 02

  That was me.

• 1:32:16Speaker 00

  And then I started craving donuts.

• 1:32:18Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:32:19Speaker 00

  Which was taking me down like a weird path.

• 1:32:21Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:32:21Speaker 00

  And I was like, every morning, my husband would come to my bedside and I would say like, bring me a donut and a little coffee. And I was like so happy. So that was good.

• 1:32:30Speaker 02

  I love that for you.

• 1:32:31Speaker 00

  And so I've gone through like some weird phases, like it, it's kinda hit or miss sometimes, but for right now, I'm like, I'm really, really liking my ice cream right now. So this is why it's really hitting. No, no, I'm not making it. No, look at you. Perfect. You're gonna make homemade ice cream. I'm like, Nora.

• 1:32:48Speaker 02

  Do you know what's really good though? If you love an ice cream is the Jenny's Birthday Cake Ice Cream.

• 1:32:54Speaker 00

  Jenny's, salt and straw. Oh, okay. So that's what I'm on. And, but right now, I don't know if you did this when you were pregnant, but like, I need a lot of different tastes kind of happening at once. So my bowl, Nora, is like mint chip, then vanilla, then chocolate, then strawberry, then I have some cookies and cream, then I have some salted caramel. And I need all the tastes.

• 1:33:12Speaker 02

  Yep, yep, yep, yep.

• 1:33:13Speaker 00

  And then I just lay there and I'm like.

• 1:33:14Speaker 02

  And you're like, okay. But I could only eat like three bites, cause I'd feel so full so quick.

• 1:33:20Speaker 00

  Immediately. I have so many questions after this and ask you, cause I'm having issues with pregnancy pillows and like, I'm trying to figure it out.

• 1:33:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:33:26Speaker 00

  So we'll talk offline, but um, you, I wrote something down.

• 1:33:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:33:30Speaker 00

  We're rounding out our conversation. Now I feel like we're having girl talk. I forgot we're in front of cameras. Okay. Um, you talked a lot about wanting to build something that lasts.

• 1:33:39Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:33:39Speaker 00

  What does that mean to you?

• 1:33:41Speaker 02

  One thing that I've always strived for is longevity. I want the business and whatever I'm creating to grow alongside me, because it's unrealistic for me to think that I'm just gonna be doing this for the rest of my life. Like, I'm gonna grow and evolve. I'm only 24. I don't know what the next 10 years have in store for me, but all I know is I wanna be working and building my business and growing to where I, I enjoy so many different things. Like obviously I love my social presence. I love cooking. So writing the cookbook felt natural. I ended up being in a movie where I had that whole experience to where now I wanna do acting. So I'm taking acting classes. I also wanna build my own brand, you know? Well, we'll get into that.

• 1:34:24Speaker 00

  I could see that.

• 1:34:25Speaker 02

  When the time comes, but I think people are really gonna love it. It's gonna be really fun. So we're working on that and then just kind of figuring out TV, that space, just, I feel like the world is my oyster and like, the most grateful and humble way I could possibly say that, because I'm so grateful to have the community that has put me in this spot to be able to really execute my vision. And I'm so grateful for it and really excited for the future.

• 1:34:50Speaker 00

  I mean, I'm so happy that I got to talk to you because all the way back to the beginning of our conversation, just talking about the misconceptions and the labels. And I think it's just like another testament to what you said earlier of just like, why can't we all get more comfortable with celebrating women who are multifaceted and have drive in multiple different areas? And how about this, are thriving in multiple different areas of their life? And instead of that being a threat and something that we wanna ignore or downplay, let's look at it. Celebrate it.

• 1:35:21Speaker 02

  We should all just help each other and like really just uplift each other. That's all I wanna do.

• 1:35:26Speaker 00

  No, I'm so happy I got to meet you. I really appreciate you. Also, I know we went through so many different topics and I know that so many of them were extremely personal.

• 1:35:36Speaker 02

  Well, thanks for making it a safe space.

• 1:35:38Speaker 00

  Of course. No, thank you for coming on Call Her Daddy.

• 1:35:40Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:35:56Speaker 00

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