Chloe Bailey: Relationship Red Flags & Redefining Success

Join Alex in the studio for an interview with Chloe Bailey. Chloe reflects on how her music career took off after Beyoncé discovered her through a YouTube cover and signed her to her label. She opens up about finding her identity while navigating the pressure to look a certain way and learning to step into her worth. She also talks about overcoming people-pleasing, healing after being cheated on, and the her dating dealbreakers. Enjoy!

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Alex Cooper?

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• 1:29Alex Cooper?

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• 2:10Alex Cooper?

  What is up Daddy Gang? It is your founding father Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy.

• 2:19Alex Cooper?

  Chloe Bailey, welcome to Call Her Daddy.

• 2:21Speaker 01

  I'm so happy to be here with you.

• 2:23Alex Cooper?

  I have been so excited to meet you. We, I feel like as a collective to the world, kind of became like, okay, knowing of you at, when you were 13 years old.

• 2:32Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:33Alex Cooper?

  That is young.

• 2:34Speaker 01

  Very.

• 2:35Alex Cooper?

  You're 13, you're singing covers on YouTube, you're going viral, and then casually you and your sister like have Grammy nominations underneath your belt, like casual. And then you also have a complete successful solo career.

• 2:47Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 2:48Alex Cooper?

  And you're an actress, and you're doing it all. So I'm excited to talk to you.

• 2:52Speaker 01

  I'm so happy to talk to you. Thanks for having me.

• 2:54Alex Cooper?

  Also, I realized that this is gonna come out, I think, on your birthday.

• 2:57Speaker 01

  On my birthday, July 1st, boo boo boo boo, I'll be 28. Like, 28.

• 3:02Alex Cooper?

  How are you feeling?

• 3:03Speaker 01

  Eating it down.

• 3:05Alex Cooper?

  Okay, is that what we're calling it?

• 3:06Speaker 01

  Yes, 28. I'm even getting myself a cake that says 20 A T E.

• 3:11Alex Cooper?

  Tell me how you're feeling.

• 3:12Speaker 01

  I'm feeling really good. Like before, like, top of the year, I was like, ooh, I'm getting a little up there. But I'm like, you know what? I am feeling really good. I've been working my ass off. And I'm like seeing the fruits of my labor, but I'm also realizing what's important and what's not, and what makes me the happiest. And I'm feeling pretty good. I'm healing. I am doing self-work.

• 3:35Alex Cooper?

  So this is like a birthday celebration?

• 3:37Speaker 01

  Yes, yeah.

• 3:38Alex Cooper?

  Also, I love how you're like, I'm getting up there. 28 is so young.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  But I'm two years from 30. And 30 is not old.

• 3:46Alex Cooper?

  I know, but it's-

• 3:47Speaker 01

  I'm 30, flirty, and thriving.

• 3:48Alex Cooper?

  I get it, but we convince ourselves that we're old.

• 3:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:51Alex Cooper?

  And then you like sit with your parents or something and you're like, oh, I still have a long way to go.

• 3:56Speaker 01

  I feel old when I watch like the reality TV shows.

• 3:58Alex Cooper?

  Uh huh.

• 3:59Speaker 01

  Like, I'm 22, I'm 21, but I feel mentally 21.

• 4:02Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 4:03Speaker 01

  Even 19.

• 4:04Alex Cooper?

  Well, you look perfect, so-

• 4:05Speaker 01

  And with no makeup, I look like 16, 15. People are like, oh, you're so kind. Like, I was on Rodale shopping and she's like, your mother raised you so well. How old are you? You fifteen?

• 4:14Alex Cooper?

  I'm in high school.

• 4:15Speaker 01

  I was like, I'm twenty seven.

• 4:17Alex Cooper?

  She goes, oh.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  And that, it happens all the time.

• 4:20Alex Cooper?

  It's so crazy how women, we just, it's like the understandable constant fixation on what age we are.

• 4:26Speaker 01

  I know.

• 4:26Alex Cooper?

  And then like, it slowly is nice. I will say, I remember when I turned thirty and I was like, okay, actually, everything, I'm alive, I'm breathing, everything's actually feels like it's still only getting better. Like, this is a good sign, because we think, as we're getting older, we're like,

• 4:41Speaker 01

  It'll decline, but it's only like getting better.

• 4:44Alex Cooper?

  Yes. Do we have birthday party plans?

• 4:47Speaker 01

  So I really want to be in St. Lucia for my birthday and I'm obsessed with the water. I'm a water baby. I love the ocean. I love swimming. And I haven't jumped off a boat in a long time, so that's what I will be doing when this comes out.

• 5:00Alex Cooper?

  Jumping off boats?

• 5:01Speaker 01

  Yes, and then I'll prove pictures if I actually did it.

• 5:04Alex Cooper?

  Perfect. Okay, I know you're someone that kind of manifests. Is there anything we're manifesting for twenty eight?

• 5:10Speaker 01

  Uh, just to be a better human being. Anything that, you know, because hurt people hurt people, so anything that might be in the tuck somewhere, I want to get rid of that. That's what I, that's what I want to do.

• 5:22Alex Cooper?

  I also love how I feel like you're someone that when you manifest, it happens, because you basically manifested getting signed to Beyonce's label at a young age and it happened.

• 5:34Speaker 01

  Let me tell you, I wish I had my positivity and confidence that I had when I was younger, because it's true. Anything I put on my mood board, any, like, I would tell, because I was like, number one Beehive. I would tell Hallie, I would tell everybody, we're gonna be the first artist signed to Beyonce. And she used to say, this is how you know I'm true Beehive. She used to say how she was gonna sign a boy band, and I was like, no, she's gonna sign us, Hallie, she's gonna sign us, we're gonna be the first. And I would just always say that.

• 6:01Alex Cooper?

  And then literally it happened.

• 6:02Speaker 01

  And then it happened, and then I even put, um, like, Grammys on the mood board. I put a script next to Donald Glover's face years because, ahead, because I loved Atlanta. I put, so many different things have come true from those. And now, as we get older, we kind of get a little jaded, little,

• 6:21Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 6:21Speaker 01

  We kind of erode away little by little. So of course self doubt creeps in, but if I had, you know, the belief that I had, I'm sure a lot of things would come quicker.

• 6:31Alex Cooper?

  Do we still have a mood board to this day?

• 6:33Speaker 01

  Oh, yes. I do it more for like artistic vision.

• 6:37Alex Cooper?

  Okay, aesthetic.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  Yes, aesthetic. Like I made like six or seven for my third album that hasn't come out yet. But like I already knew what I wanted it to say. And so I, I was with my family. It was over like holiday break and I just had like 15 magazines and I was just it's nice.

• 6:54Alex Cooper?

  I need to go home and make a mood board. Also to anyone else, like go home, make a mood board and like put Beyonce on it.

• 6:59Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. And just looking at her will embody like

• 7:03Alex Cooper?

  Confidence.

• 7:03Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 7:04Alex Cooper?

  Can, okay, we need to go back.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 7:06Alex Cooper?

  You, that's not the first time you met her. You're three years old, which is this like kind of a crazy story. You're three years old.

• 7:12Speaker 01

  It is.

• 7:13Alex Cooper?

  And you played a younger version of Beyonce's character in a movie. So technically you met her when you were three.

• 7:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:21Alex Cooper?

  Do you, because I know three is so young. Do you have any stories that anyone has told you from that time in your life onset?

• 7:27Speaker 01

  I faintly remember. I have a pretty good memory from when I was that age. Which is weird.

• 7:33Alex Cooper?

  Tell us.

• 7:35Speaker 01

  But for me, there was one of my favorite like yellow pink sunflower dresses. That's what I wore to the audition. It was my very first audition. So I was three when I auditioned and we shot it in July. And I think it was like a couple of days away past my birthday. So it was like top of July. That's what I remember. And I remember I used to hate mints, right? So I started at the top of the scene and I had a little cute boyfriend on the steps at the top and I hated mints. So we had to wrap them in strawberry candy for me to continue filming. That I remember how disgusted I was with the mints. I remember Beyonce picking me up and holding me and I remember fangirling because I love Destiny's Child. Then I remember at the rap party, because I had a little fighting temptations camera they gave everyone. I still remember it.

• 8:16Speaker 01

  She was dancing with me at the rap party, picked me up, swung me around. Then I remember, sorry, now I'm five. Now I'm five. And my baby sister, Hallie, she was three and my sister, Sky, I think she was, how old was she at the time? Twelve. She even had a black strappy dress. See, I remember specific details. And we went to crawl, well, my sister crawled and I, but mainly her. She started it to go see B and I think she had like this diamond dress on at the premiere and my sister's baby locks got caught in her hair and dress, no, her dress, yes. Those I remember specifically and I will never forget.

• 8:52Alex Cooper?

  You have a really good memory.

• 8:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:54Alex Cooper?

  So after that moment, you're 10 and your sister's eight, when you guys start uploading covers to YouTube. Whose idea was that?

• 9:02Speaker 01

  It was our older sister, Skies. And any, like, we were singing around Atlanta in our church dresses, at clubs, at venues, at anything we could be at. And this was around the time when Justin Bieber was popping on YouTube. I think Grace and Chance was popping off of YouTube. So Sky was like, hey, maybe you guys should post stuff on YouTube. And, you know, other little people around Atlanta were like, yeah, that'd be a good idea. We were always like, no, no. And of course, Best Thing I Never Had came out. We were seeing it around the house. We were like, this is the one. This was around the time where we had to burn the instrumental on a CD. We had to put it in a stereo. It was red and black. Plug it in, put it in there. We had the camera. Uh, Sky had to press play with her toe while she did the camera. And sis

• 9:47Speaker 01

  and I, we put on our dressiest shirts because we're showing up and showing out on YouTube.

• 9:53Speaker 01

  We ended up having to change it to more simpler tank tops. And that is the rough imaging that you see of Khloe and Hallie really doing the thing.

• 10:03Alex Cooper?

  The video, I watched it again this morning, just so I could like relive it. And the videos are so precious. And it's so OG YouTube. It makes it even better. Like, I forgot how just genuine and organic the internet used to feel. It really felt like just like a home video, right? And then your cover of Pretty Hertz gets 23 million views on YouTube and maybe more importantly, It gets Miss Beyonce's attention.

• 10:35Speaker 01

  That's crazy.

• 10:36Alex Cooper?

  What do you do?

• 10:37Speaker 01

  I was freaking out, jumping up and down, screaming. We get a response. They were like, bet. So maybe it took about a month. We ended up seeing B in a warehouse. Sis and I, it was dark. I think she was shooting some commercial. It was dark. She was in this white jumpsuit, looked like an angel. And you know, she saw the picture that we had when I was four and I think she's like early twenties. And yeah, she was like, oh my gosh. And it was like a sign. And then she told us before she wanted to sign us, Miss Tina sent her the video and was like, you need to sign these girls. And she was like, mom, I already did.

• 11:09Alex Cooper?

  It's too good. Also like the warehouse and her looking angelic and getting to see her in her element. When you got that recognition from her, what do you think that changed within you and your sister from just being like, okay, we're singing YouTube covers to like, Beyonce Knowles is acknowledging our existence, not only, but also blessing us and saying you are talented.

• 11:31Speaker 01

  It felt like, you know, when you're younger and you don't really know all that you have to do. It felt like the I made it moment in that time.

• 11:39Alex Cooper?

  And like little did you know how much more you were going to go on to do, but in that moment it was so validating.

• 11:44Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 11:45Alex Cooper?

  Okay, then you guys casually end up opening for her Formation World Tour. And that is, that doesn't even go on people's mood board because that's not like.

• 11:54Speaker 01

  The stadium was on the mood board.

• 11:57Alex Cooper?

  Beyonce is selling out stadiums. How big of crowds had you even performed for prior to that?

• 12:02Speaker 01

  It was insane. Oh, nowhere near that. Are you kidding me? And it was the Europe leg and it was just, I had my beat machine. It was so hot sometimes during the summer that it would overheat and it wouldn't work and that I was triggering our songs from there. We had some tacky outfits, but we were performing our little hearts out. We did not care. Dancing, choreography, everything. Halle had her guitar. We were giving it our all.

• 12:27Alex Cooper?

  I think also the trajectory from YouTube to then working with someone like Beyonce, like that is the dream of all dreams. Were you nervous to be in front of such like huge stadiums?

• 12:39Speaker 01

  Are you kidding me? I still get nervous. I have bad nerves even to this day. But I feel like I'm an adrenaline junkie and it's kind of fun. In the moment, it feels like you're paralyzed. Like it gets so bad for me to the point of. Almost like wanting to throw up. Like I remember there was this BET performance I had to honor Usher and it was a good kisser. And I'm in my bedazzled jumpsuit and I'm like bent over. So there's this stool that I had to start, you know, perched up on. But before they opened up, you know, the stuff, the platforms or whatever, I'm sitting there doubled over like, because I can't stand straight without falling over. And then all of a sudden the song comes on and I'm going boom, boom, boom.

• 13:21Alex Cooper?

  And you just turn it on?

• 13:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 13:22Alex Cooper?

  So you're just like a real performer because I also think there's something weird about YouTube, right? It's like you're in front of a camera, but there's no one behind the camera. And so it's similar to now, like almost like people on the internet when you are getting famous on the internet. No one is in the room with you. And then when you actually have to go meet people and perform live, there is this element that you have to retrain your body to be like, oh my God, I'm not just doing it for the internet anymore. I'm doing it for the world. And now I'm doing it in a stadium with Beyonce coming out after us. No pressure.

• 13:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:54Alex Cooper?

  Is there any advice that she gave you in those early days that has just like stuck with you throughout your career?

• 13:59Speaker 01

  The early advice she gave us, she used to call us her little aliens because we were so like different and like she would say like out of this world. And she would always say, you know, the world won't get it yet. But don't dumb yourselves down for the world. Let the world catch up to you. And even now, as I'm 27, going on 28, it's still that way with my music. Like I'll release it. Oh, we don't like it. Then months later, oh, this is a bop. So I'm like, it just, it just trained you here a little bit.

• 14:26Alex Cooper?

  I mean, I, I think also someone in her position who has gone through so many different iterations, that's such an incredible bit of advice to give you of like, almost just like having resilience also to just be patient.

• 14:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 14:38Alex Cooper?

  Because in our careers, you want to just go, go, go, especially as women. And we feel like we have this tiny window.

• 14:43Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 14:43Alex Cooper?

  But it's like, we have time.

• 14:45Speaker 01

  It's so true.

• 14:46Alex Cooper?

  What a concept.

• 14:56Alex Cooper?

  Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Ross. Fall is about finding pieces you love, making them your own and creating looks and spaces just right for the season. Whether you're updating a small apartment or a spacious home, drawn to timeless neutrals or bold seasonal touches, Ross makes it easy to imagine what's next and bring your fall vision to life. Ross makes fashion accessible to all with up to 20 to 60% off other retailers' prices on the brands you love. Find your nearest Ross at rossstores.com. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Shopify. Daddy gang, you know, I'm a little skeptical of the internet at times, aren't we all?

• 15:38Alex Cooper?

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• 16:23Alex Cooper?

  I love being able to sell merch directly on all the Call Her Daddy channels. So everything is in one place for the daddy gang. So, ready to add entrepreneur to your list of accomplishments? Head to Shopify.com/daddy. That's Shopify.com/daddy. You and your sister obviously have had so many milestones. I feel like in those very beginning days, you became almost like known as this unit, right? Yes. How would you describe your dynamic with Hallie?

• 16:54Speaker 01

  So I'm the Cancer, she's the Aries. We are like the complete opposite, yet we are just the same. This is how I could describe it. So we have cats who are brothers, Poseidon and Apollo. They're actual brothers and Poseidon, he's very demure, very to himself. He doesn't really like people. He likes his space. Don't bother him. Apollo clingy, all up in your face, constant zoomies. Loves the cuddles, everything like that. So that is Hallie and I in cat form.

• 17:24Alex Cooper?

  Wait, wait, wait. Which one's Apollo?

• 17:27Speaker 01

  Me.

• 17:27Alex Cooper?

  Oh man, you're saying you're clingy?

• 17:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:29Alex Cooper?

  You want to cuddle up on your sister and like be near her and she's like, leave me alone.

• 17:33Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 17:34Alex Cooper?

  I guess that is so you being like the older sister and she's the younger. She's too cool.

• 17:38Speaker 01

  Yes, that is exactly us in cat form. They embodied our spirits.

• 17:42Alex Cooper?

  You have said in the past that you've always taken on this like motherly role and feel really protective over Hallie.

• 17:49Speaker 01

  Very.

• 17:49Alex Cooper?

  How has that shown up through your, just like different stages of your lives and your career?

• 17:56Speaker 01

  It's so funny because sometimes I have to tell myself, okay, Chloe, dial it back. I think because growing up in the house, ever since we were little girls, I always felt like I had to protect her. And that still hasn't gone away. And with her becoming a mother, I'm not a mom. There's a new level of life she unlocked even before I did. So I have to be like, Chloe, you all have different journeys. She is raising her child. This is not, she's not your child. So I've had to do a lot of letting go because Hallie's always been like my little doll baby. And I'd always put her before myself through everything in life.

• 18:41Speaker 01

  And so it's like, I have to retrain myself to be like, okay, we're both our own individuals and our own adults. Let go, Chloe.

• 18:49Alex Cooper?

  That is really sweet. And I feel like anyone who's watching, who has a sister, because I do, I feel that I'm the youngest and then my sister is the oldest. So I'm feeling that energy of like, my sister's like that to me, too. And even though sometimes I'm like, oh, my God, leave me alone. I actually really don't know what I would do without her because I'm like, wait, no. But it's like, I don't want you there, but like, I know you're there. And it's like a nice feeling. I also remember, which makes me so sad for you guys, like, reading, you know, understandably how disturbing you found it when people would try to pit you and your sister against each other, which is, they already try to do that to women.

• 19:25Speaker 01

  All the time.

• 19:26Alex Cooper?

  Every day, but to do it also to like sisters where you're like, that is my blood. Like, where are you going with this is pretty crazy.

• 19:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:34Alex Cooper?

  When was the first time do you think you became aware of this?

• 19:38Speaker 01

  I think after, after Best Thing I Ever Had came out, our very first cover, and we got posted on WorldStar. And you know, of course, WorldStar. Lethal. Lethal. Yeah. And I think that was the very first time. But like, the thing that people don't realize with Sis and I is that we are so different. Like, my sister, she grew up loving jazz. She still does. Jazz, neo soul, you know, the vibes, you know, she plays guitar very boho. Me, I'm like, I love the pop lock-in, drop it, the heavy drums. You hear it in my production. And that's, that was the beauty of Chloe and Hallie. That is what the beauty of Chloe and Hallie is, because we're bringing two different sides of ourselves. But I think people wanted to see

• 20:23Speaker 01

  either all of this side from both of us, or all of this side from both of us. And you can never please everybody. So I mean, of course, there are groups, like all groups, you all have your favorite or whatever, but it was, it hurt us sometimes. Like, when we'd see certain comments, like, Hallie and I, we'd talk to each other, like, oh, my gosh, is this true about me? And then she'll say, is this true about me? And we'd be like, no, it's not. And it's like, we'd have to uplift each other. I mean, even today, like, they'll say, I do too much. Or like,

• 20:55Speaker 01

  My sister does the opposite or things like that. But that's the beauty of us. We're like fire and water.

• 21:02Alex Cooper?

  Did they ever go for, was it just like career? Did they ever go for your looks or your?

• 21:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, we're two black girls with locks in the industry. It's not, I mean, now it's becoming more mainstream and I'm really happy to see that. I really am, but like it wasn't cool to be young black with short little locks. Like I remember sometimes being in school, like it's funny. There's a self-portrait of me. I was four and we had to do a self-portrait. And I drew myself like I had like this straight ponytail. And I'm like, Chloe, now I can laugh at it, but it's funny how we see ourselves when we look at our friends. And we're like, that's what I'm supposed to look like. That's what I'm supposed to be like. So we definitely had to pull our self-confidence from inside because it wasn't that accepted.

• 21:48Speaker 01

  And even like when we would go on auditions, when we were younger in Atlanta, our acting agents would be like, oh, you know, you might get more roles if you have regular hair. So we even invested in getting these terrible lace fronts, like really curly wigs. And I remember I even went to school orientation in it. They're like, oh, my gosh, your locks. I said, yeah, I combed them out. Then a week later, it was first day of school. I was back with my locks and I was like, I put them back in. No, child. It's so funny, but yeah, those are different things we went through. And I remember I went through a time, I think maybe 18, 19, before I started really styling my locks in different ways. I was like, I want to get rid of my hair. Like I want to switch it up.

• 22:29Speaker 01

  But then I got introduced to wrapping my locks because I won't ever dye it because it'll kind of break them off. And like adding hair and things like that. And I love my locks. I'll never change them.

• 22:38Alex Cooper?

  Well, first of all, I'm so sorry you had to go through that because you're right. Like hearing that also from young kids your same age.

• 22:48Alex Cooper?

  I cannot imagine being in a position where you are authentically showing up as yourself and you are being judged for something that is just who you are and something you're like, wait, I can't control this.

• 22:59Speaker 01

  As little children, as little children, that's what gets me.

• 23:02Alex Cooper?

  Right? And then to look for a solution because had those people not gotten involved, you would have just still thought, I'm beautiful and I'm with my sister and when I'm in my household, I feel so confident. Like, that's the part when you're a child and you're put into those situations with other peers, it starts to be this like horrible self doubt that you have and you're so critical of yourself and it takes a really long time, I'm sure, to then get to the point where you're like, wait, maybe I am okay as I am.

• 23:33Speaker 01

  Yes, you don't need outer validation.

• 23:36Alex Cooper?

  But it doesn't make it easy in the beginning days.

• 23:37Speaker 01

  Because you're growing up thinking that your self-worth is dependent on what you can do and what you bring.

• 23:42Alex Cooper?

  Do you think though, it made it easier having you and your sister be together in that situation?

• 23:49Speaker 01

  We clung so tight to each other and we weren't alone. Like, we weren't going through the criticism, even the positivity alone. Like, we were rejoicing together and we had a partner to celebrate with and even cry with.

• 24:04Alex Cooper?

  I'm also thinking too about, you know, coming up, like, you're having such success because you're naturally talented. And then I do feel like we hear about this often. Becoming in this industry, everyone wants you to have a very recognizable image, right? And you're talking about like, as a young black girl, like, I'm trying to figure out who I am. And then add on also being in the entertainment industry adds another level of complexity because everyone's going to try to change you regardless. So it's like, how did you work through the essentially dichotomy of like, merging two worlds from already struggling with something and then it blowing up even more

• 24:47Alex Cooper?

  as people were like, we need you to look like this, we need you to pose like this.

• 24:50Speaker 01

  I think the care and the love for the art overshadowed all of that. So the joy that we felt when we were Creating the joy when I'd be nerding out by my computer with my beats to like four in the morning in like our garage studio, the joy of listening to it back, the joy of knowing that we did have fans because at this moment, we're very underground, like we're like two black indie girls at this moment. So the joy of that, the love of it, that is what overpowered it all.

• 25:19Alex Cooper?

  I also love what you, you know, were saying where you have people comparing you and this is your sister and you're like, we are so different, but in the best ways, that's what makes us us. And then eventually you do decide to go and explore a solo career. Was there any part of you guys that had conversations of like, what will the world think? Cause are we almost like,

• 25:42Alex Cooper?

  like, is this gonna fuel more rumors?

• 25:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:44Alex Cooper?

  You know what I mean?

• 25:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. So the funny thing is that it was never planned and, and we're not broken up. We're just like on a cute little hiatus.

• 25:51Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 25:51Speaker 01

  And my sister booked The Little Mermaid as Ariel.

• 25:55Alex Cooper?

  Yes, she did.

• 25:56Speaker 01

  And she had to move to London. She ended up filming it for about three years because it was in the middle of COVID. So we had our album On Godly Hour done. We had the visual shot and everything, but we didn't have a release date. So then sis went off to London and we didn't know when we'd ever put out the project. So COVID happens. She comes back home. We get a release date. So then we started doing tennis court performances and everything during COVID and On Godly Hour kind of took our group to the next level. So it was never planned in that time to like, kind of go like that. But of course during the pandemic, it's hard to travel. I couldn't even visit her in London after that because of all the travel restrictions.

• 26:40Speaker 01

  So I'm just with my little beat machine in my bedroom, just making ideas. I'm like, you know, I'm not with my other half. So I'm like, okay, this is three years. I'm like, okay.

• 26:49Alex Cooper?

  Had that been the longest you'd been apart also?

• 26:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:51Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 26:52Speaker 01

  We wouldn't, we didn't even, yeah, we didn't even spend a week apart. And when she first went to London, I went out there with her for two months because she was like, Chloe, I don't think I could be without you. So I went out there and anytime she'd go to set, you know, with rehearsals, I'd work out with her in the morning with her trainer. And then I'd be in her trailer the whole day while she was rehearsing and I'd just be making beats in the trailer until it was time for her to come and we go home. Yeah. And in the days I didn't go, I would do Soul Cycle, but that was like maybe once or twice, but I would always go to set with her just so she knew I was there when she'd come in for lunch, things like that.

• 27:22Alex Cooper?

  You are. Such a ride or die.

• 27:25Speaker 01

  That's when the idea came out. Okay, I'm making all these ideas. Maybe I should just put it out. Cause I'm just like, like building and accumulating all this music throughout three years. So this opportunity for this, like, um, it was Juneteenth, actually. Juneteenth is a special time for me. I mean, anyways, come to think of it. So I wanted to do a cover of Feeling Good by Nina Simone. I love Nina Simone. I always have since I was a little girl. I think that's where I get like my lower tone register inspo from her and Toni Braxton.

• 27:55Alex Cooper?

  Love it.

• 27:56Speaker 01

  So, you know, me with my little electronics, I did it from, you know, I wanted to use my backgrounds, almost like a synth. And of course, heavy eight oh weights, gotta have that. It's a little weird alternative. I turned it in and they're like, oh, you want to do this late night performance of it? I was like, sure, yeah. We didn't have a place for the late night performance. So this would have been my first performance without my sister. I'm like, hold on, wait a minute. Now, the two of us, between the two of us, I really love dancing, like all of our ungodly hour performances and everything. Because we couldn't see a choreographer, I would come up with the dance moves and I'd teach it to her. So we had like our little dance studio in the house. So I was like, okay, Khlo, what am I gonna do? So I was like, I want to dance for this performance.

• 28:38Speaker 01

  So I practiced, I even sprained the left side of my neck because I wanted to really just do whatever the heck on the floor. I was like, let's just do it. Let's just go all out. And, you know, I shot the performances. And we didn't really have a place for it. And they're like, oh, well, it's gonna go, uh, on the Juneteenth special. I think it was NBC, one of those like news ones. I'm like, because it was a little, you know, but at that moment, it was already shot, money had been spent.

• 29:06Alex Cooper?

  You're like, we can't.

• 29:07Speaker 01

  I was like, I'm still proud of my performance.

• 29:09Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 29:10Speaker 01

  It was meant for late night.

• 29:11Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, it wasn't really meant for like daytime television, the, the moms in America just be like, eh, yeah.

• 29:17Speaker 01

  But I was like, you know what? It's already done. So it airs, huge uproar. This is too sexy, this, that. Mind you, I'm fully clothed, but yes, I was gyrating around. I'm not gonna lie, it's not for daytime television. But you know, I'm moving. I was just really giving it my all. So I made this huge uproar online and I'm like, whoa. And anytime I would post, you know, myself or my body or anything like that, they would freak the heck out. And I was like, why? At this moment, I think I'm 21. Like, I'm like, I don't get the big deal why everyone's freaking out. So this performance freaked everyone out. I was getting so much shit. So much.

• 29:59Speaker 01

  I ended up getting this beat, because I was posting my beats on my Instagram at the time, from Murda Beats. He DM'd me, "Yo, let's make some beats together." I was like, bet. Mind you, I would never answer DMs because there are a lot of creeps up in there. So I'm like, but he was really about the music. That's how I got Metro's contact too. They were really about the music.

• 30:18Speaker 01

  So Murda had sent me about 10 beats at this time. He sent me this one, "Booty's So Big, Lord Have Mercy." I'm like, ooh, I like this. I'm even getting chills talking about it. I still remember I was in my car listening to it. I turned it off because if I hear it, my mind will immediately start coming up with creative ideas and it won't shut off. So if I know I like a beat, I'll turn it off until I'm ready to create. And I was like, I really want to talk my shit on this. It's talking about booty so big, but I don't really know if I had the balls to write like that yet. So this guy, T-Ron, amazing writer, has written so many hits. It was our first session together. It was me, him and my engineer. He comes in. And you know, he's like, what are you going through right now?

• 31:00Speaker 01

  And I ended up saying, you know, I'm really upset because people aren't letting me be me in the body that I have. Like, first they tell me, oh, she's amazing, she's being restricted. Then they tell me, oh, she's showing her body too much, all of this. And I was like, I really just want to use this song to just get my feelings out and talk my shit.

• 31:20Speaker 01

  We wrote it that day, the scratch demo. Then I ended up actually recutting it with just me and my engineer. And I added my backgrounds and everything like that. And I was like, gosh darn it, this feels really great. I knew this was the first song I wanted to put out. So all this is happening, all while my sister is in London.

• 31:38Alex Cooper?

  Being the Little Mermaid. And you're like, so, did you see that daytime TV thing?

• 31:43Speaker 01

  Yes, so all of this is happening in conjunction with one another. So it's not like I just went on my own, you know what I mean?

• 31:51Alex Cooper?

  What did she think about the daytime television moment?

• 31:54Speaker 01

  She was like, Chloe, it's great, I love it. Yes, the moves. We were on FaceTime and you know, she had her cute little extensions, the red. And you know, she'd always wear head scars because she couldn't show that she had the red hair. Because no one really knew what her look would be. She's like, oh girl, yes, yes, just like that. So it was really great because at that time, I'm working with Murda. I'm working with Metro. I'm working with all these heavy hitters in terms of production. I'm like, they respect my work, they respect what I do. Like, and it was my first time actually believing in myself as my own. Because I didn't think I had worth or value without my sister. So even now, like, because we were like this, it's you, it's like, you know, you're special.

• 32:38Speaker 01

  Because I can look over at my sister and I know she has a phenomenal voice. I know she's beautiful, but it's harder to look in the mirror and say those things to yourself.

• 32:48Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, it's almost like you guys had each other as this crutch.

• 32:51Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 32:51Alex Cooper?

  That you came up in this industry together. So to remove that, you're like, wait.

• 32:56Speaker 01

  What am I without her?

• 32:57Alex Cooper?

  Where's Hallie? And it's like, no, no, no, time for you both to soar and fly on your own. And you're like, still grabbing for each other, but it's like, you're getting farther away. And it's like, go, go do your thing. I'm going to do my thing and we'll meet back up later.

• 33:09Speaker 01

  Very scary. But what I loved about those lyrics. It was like, why do I keep bossing like I do, flossing like I do? And I was just, I was talking my shit. Like, you know, he liked my Laffy Taffy because all these guys were online talking about my body or whatever. I'm not all my body. Yes, that's a part of me, but I'm this nerd, really smart, funny girl. But yeah, I'm showing a little booty and what about it?

• 33:34Alex Cooper?

  And what about it?

• 33:35Speaker 01

  Yes. So I was really, that's what it was. So I put that out on my birthday. It goes viral. Everyone's doing the challenge to booty so big, Lord have mercy. The song isn't even out. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, because my sister and I, we weren't mainstream. We were like indie underground girls. So I wasn't expecting much from this. Going a hundred thousand, two hundred thousand videos, three hundred thousand, four hundred thousand. I'm like, whoa. So now everyone's like, put it out, put it out, put it out. So I put this song out through Columbia that we were assigned to, you know, in conjunction with Parkwood.

• 34:07Speaker 01

  And we release it, I think September 5th. And because the song was so viral, VMA has called and asked me to perform.

• 34:16Speaker 01

  Even before it dropped, so I'm in New Jersey rehearsing for my very first debut performance. This is crazy. For my very first debut performance. And the day the video drops, we're sitting on the ground in rehearsal. And it like had four million in one night. It was just everywhere.

• 34:32Alex Cooper?

  Hearing you talk about making a moment for yourself and going for something you love. And like you saying, like, you're such a creative. You hear something, you're like, I need to get, I have a vision. I want to do it. But leaning into the commentary about your looks and your body, I think as women, it's so relatable. It's like, if I, I'm going to call it what it is and I want to own it because you're, why do you all get to talk about it? But I can't talk about it?

• 34:57Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 34:58Alex Cooper?

  Let, make it make sense.

• 34:59Speaker 01

  Thank you. You get to tell me, ooh, she got a nice ass, but I can't go in the mirror and go.

• 35:02Alex Cooper?

  I got a nice ass. So like, why can you, it's like, everyone feels like they have ownership over women's bodies.

• 35:08Speaker 01

  Except the one who owns it.

• 35:11Alex Cooper?

  Chloe.

• 35:13Alex Cooper?

  No, no, no. We're on to something here, Chloe. No, no, no. And it's, it's so infuriating. And so I remember, because I had written down, like, I remember when people called you, like, too sexy, and they were insinuating that you're using your sexuality to force a rebrand. And it's like, wait a second. Who was the person that sexualized me in the first place? All of you. And so here I am now, celebrating.

• 35:36Speaker 01

  Myself, who I am, I'm coming into my own.

• 35:38Alex Cooper?

  And now it's upsetting everyone.

• 35:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. I didn't know why it made such a big deal, because I have, I'm in this skin all my life. And to be honest, like, we can like ourselves, but it's hard to really dive into the self-love thing. So for me, I just, I was confused. I was like, whoa, what is happening? So when that happened, it was like, almost taking something bad and making it good. And because of all that negativity, I got my first platinum single, my debut solo single turned platinum.

• 36:05Alex Cooper?

  Yes, you did.

• 36:06Speaker 01

  And that's insane, because even talking about it now, that's a huge debut. And I think I have to remember that and celebrate myself in the times where I don't feel like I'm good enough.

• 36:19Alex Cooper?

  I think that is so relatable as women, where we, I was talking about this with my friend the other day. I'm like, whenever one of us has a win, why do we not pause and celebrate? Because the mood board has always been there. Like, if you told young Chloe this story, she'd be like, huh? Excuse me? No, we can retire. We're done. That's perfect. That's, that's all we could have ever asked for. And when you're in it, it's so hard to-

• 36:45Speaker 01

  It's like, where can I go to next?

• 36:47Alex Cooper?

  And we're so hard on ourselves. And so the fact, yes, you could, let's take a moment right now, where it's like, look at what you did in that moment, from that young girl on YouTube, to then having that moment with Mercy. You're like-

• 37:04Speaker 01

  It was crazy.

• 37:05Alex Cooper?

  Platinum.

• 37:06Speaker 01

  And after the VMAs performance, I just broke down crying on the side of the stage. And that Hallie even came back from London, so she was there. All my family was there, my godmom, my godbrother, my younger brother. We were all there and I just broke down on the side of the stage because there were so many people who told me I couldn't do it, that I wasn't good as a solo artist. People that I knew personally would tell me that. And I just really didn't feel like I was worth much. So to know that I had that moment at the VMAs, I just literally broke down crying on the side of the stage because it was like I got to prove it to myself that I was good enough.

• 37:41Alex Cooper?

  Khloe, that makes, I mean, there's so much that you're saying that I'm like, yes, yes, yes, yes, for women. And I wonder if you have any, just like opinion or take now of where you're sitting and looking back on yourself. Like, why do you think people are so uncomfortable when a woman, especially a black woman, is so confident in who she is as a person and her sexuality?

• 38:07Speaker 01

  Because there's too much power in that. You can control people and confine them when they don't know how special they are. You can keep them trapped in that box.

• 38:18Alex Cooper?

  It's so true. It's like there's two, they don't want us to recognize our worth because once we do, I saw something where people are like, oh, my God, the older women get, they, although they're devaluing us, we actually only become more cognizant of like who we are and what we want. And so they act like we're only worthy at 18 and 19 and 20, when really they know that's just the, like when we're the most vulnerable and the brink of it, right? And so to hear you lean in to your success and your power in that moment and to see it go platinum, like, that's so rewarding. I'm so happy for you.

• 38:55Speaker 01

  It's still crazy to think about.

• 38:57Alex Cooper?

  It's incredible.

• 38:57Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 38:58Alex Cooper?

  Um, in the midst of all of this.

• 38:59Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 39:00Alex Cooper?

  You said that being in the spotlight for most of your life made you tie your happiness to your career and your public perception. When do you think you came to that realization?

• 39:14Speaker 01

  Years ago.

• 39:17Speaker 01

  But even more so now, like I'm such a huge advocate for therapy. And I say this all the time, like, we're taught to work out and work on our bodies and watch what we eat. But our mind is a muscle just the same, and we have to do that as well. There might be some unhabits we have to learn. We might have to figure out how to squat the proper way mentally. So we don't hurt ourselves, uh, things like that, but

• 39:48Speaker 01

  I think because I started it so young, it's like, it's rewarding when you get an applause for hitting the right note. It's rewarding when you bring in some money for this deal. It's rewarding, but that's not what's all that special about you.

• 40:06Alex Cooper?

  It's a great point. So do you think a couple of years ago, what was there a moment? Or was it kind of creeping up on you where you're like, why am I feeling this way?

• 40:15Speaker 01

  I think it's, it creeps up on you. And even now I'm very cognizant about it. Like, I don't think that ever goes away. It's hard to unlearn something that has been your blueprint your entire life. But I think when you surround people, surround yourself with people who don't need a damn thing from you. You realize, wait.

• 40:42Speaker 01

  You actually keep me around because you like me as a person. Not because of what I can do for you.

• 40:50Speaker 01

  So for me, it's very freeing. And I think that's when you get closer to the self-love journey.

• 40:58Alex Cooper?

  But what I can feel

• 41:03Alex Cooper?

  behind that right now, when you just are getting a little emotional is it takes though realizing, oh, you're so appreciative of those kinds of people because you had the other kind of person in your life.

• 41:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:13Alex Cooper?

  Who was using you or made you feel like, oh, my God, my, my worth is all wrapped up in. What I bring to the table. And so I have to work and I have to work and I need to succeed and I need to succeed because if all this goes away, all these people will go away. And then what am I worth?

• 41:30Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 41:31Alex Cooper?

  How did getting stuck into that cycle a little bit of like your career and it really getting enmeshed with your self-worth start to affect your mental health?

• 41:43Speaker 01

  I think when it started to affect my mental health was around when I, after the Have Mercy success, I have all these eyes on me. And I think because people were waiting on what I was going to do next. And everyone around me was like, no, we have to make sure the next one's perfect. So even though I was creating music, we waited like eight months till I put out my next single, which if I could rewind it, I would have just kept the momentum going because it's hard to build it back up.

• 42:09Speaker 01

  So I think when I actually released my first album and it didn't sell the great amount that people wanted to, but it's the normal amount today. It was 10K, everyone was shunning me. I was like, oh my gosh, I, am I not as great as I thought? Or everyone thought, like they thought I was going to be this big thing. So it was around the same time, the best thing that my manager, Shermae, could have done was book a tour for me a week after the album came out. And that was, at that time, it was kind of unheard of. No one goes on tour to tour an album, nobody knows. So as I'm on tour, as I'm in press interviews, they're like, oh, how do you feel about the low selling numbers, all this stuff, blah, blah, blah.

• 42:53Speaker 01

  But then the first night, everyone knows the song, the song's word for word. I'm like, hold on. Meeting greets, the whole tour was sold out. So I'm like, wait, I'm confused. I see this online, then I see this in real life. What's happening? And I think it was really getting to me. I think it was the show before Philly. And I always get nervous before every performance. This specific show, I think it had gotten to me and I was just like, you know what? And that show, I had no nerves. It was like I was watching it happen in front of me in the audience and I was watching my body and my arms and my legs and seeing everything happening in front of me, but I wasn't there. And I hope she doesn't mind me saying this.

• 43:33Speaker 01

  After that, I go backstage.

• 43:36Speaker 01

  Shermae was my manager. I call her mommy because she's my godmom.

• 43:40Speaker 01

  She takes me to the dressing room in the back. I think it was like two of like the glam team were back there. She goes, looks at me seriously, she goes, Chloe, if I ever see you like that again, I'mma fuck you up. Don't ever let no motherfuckers take your joy from you. Something that God gave you that gift. If I ever see you like that again. So from that day, she would always be at the front of the stage because I was just not there. I just was like, okay, I don't feel that strong enough mentally to give off, to perform songs that people say, oh, didn't sell well, whatever, blah, blah, blah. So that's when I attached it to my self-worth. But then I was like, wait. And after that, it marked from Philly to the rest of the tour, I was on cloud nine and it didn't really matter.

• 44:25Alex Cooper?

  First of all, thank you for sharing that because I think something that is really difficult to talk about, especially with social media these days is what does success actually look like? And when we look at social media, we are inundated with, they got the job, they sold, they went platinum.

• 44:46Speaker 01

  Or like people see you in public and they go, what are you up to?

• 44:49Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, yes.

• 44:50Speaker 01

  What you up to?

• 44:51Alex Cooper?

  Exactly. Like living, trying to be like, get my mental health together. Like, leave me alone. But it's, there's so much that we are seeing constantly of people's wins that when you are having what you would consider like, oh, I actually think this would have been good. But I guess by that standard, it's not great and therefore it's a complete failure. Like we've lost the barometer, I genuinely believe of like what success actually looks like for ourselves. And the fact that like, you're on stage, you are on tour, you are performing. That seems very successful to me, but understandably you're like, oh my God, but everyone had this idea

• 45:35Alex Cooper?

  of what I was supposed to be doing. Yes, but that wasn't your path at that moment. And it like, and this is still a win.

• 45:42Speaker 01

  And I look back at videos and I'm like, oh my God, I missed tour. But I wish I appreciated it more in the moment because I was so in my head. And now I'm watching videos, I'm like, oh, I was getting it. So that's what I I now I am learning to be more present in the moments because tomorrow isn't promised. All of these moments are fleeting. I sometimes I'll be like, oh, my gosh, I'm so tired. Press book back to back. There's some days there's nothing. It's like, oh, I I missed that. So now I walk into spaces with a different sense of gratitude, a different sense of appreciation and knowing that this is my job. And yes, I'm happy this is here, but the same people cheering me on now. They were quiet a month or two ago. So that shouldn't

• 46:27Speaker 01

  really validate me because it's a facade.

• 46:30Alex Cooper?

  Right. It's gonna come and go.

• 46:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:32Alex Cooper?

  How do you feel? What what? What makes you feel fulfilled? And when you're looking back at yourself and you're realizing, how was I not happy in that moment?

• 46:40Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 46:40Alex Cooper?

  When that should have been such a great moment.

• 46:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:43Alex Cooper?

  It's almost you have to start re-regulating how you operate and look at success for yourself. And I think that's applicable to everyone probably watching this show of like, whether it's your job or your family or your relationship, like, we get so in our head comparing everything around us that it's like, girl, you're missing the moment.

• 46:59Speaker 01

  It's so true. And I used to, this is how I know I've gotten thicker skin. I used to like, crumble with people online about me, all this stuff. When people talk or have a discourse now, I'm like, thank you so much for giving me great interaction and engagement. Thank you.

• 47:15Alex Cooper?

  Because you're impenetrable now.

• 47:17Speaker 01

  Yes. And guess what? You're running my numbers up. Brands see that. Are you putting bread into my account by talking shit?

• 47:24Alex Cooper?

  Like, no, it's just like, a comment is a comment.

• 47:26Speaker 01

  I'm like, I'm grateful. You have me trending? Oh, baby. Thank you.

• 47:29Alex Cooper?

  Let's go.

• 47:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's how I look at it now. Like, people could be tearing my name down. I'm like, I'll be home like, yeah.

• 47:43Alex Cooper?

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• 48:43Alex Cooper?

  In a past interview, you referenced reaching a point where you just wanted to say no. Can you share what you mean by that and what was going on?

• 48:54Speaker 01

  I'm a people pleaser. I don't like people being upset with me. I don't like knowing people think I did something wrong to them. I just love to people please. And sometimes when you people please, you leave yourself out, darling. And I've learned it's okay to say no. It's okay to say hell no. It's okay to say, I'm not feeling that right now. Maybe come back to me next week. But I think because I've been such a people pleaser all of my life, when I did start vocalizing and standing up for myself, people were like, whoa, who is this? And as a woman, you should be able to speak your mind without being labeled as the B word.

• 49:39Alex Cooper?

  Well, that's what I was gonna ask you. Like, how did you navigate that? Because I think that's where all of us struggle, where it's like, oh, my God, she's finally standing up for herself. And what should be celebrated is actually a lot of people who have been able to weaponize your people pleasing to their ability of, oh, my gosh, I'm getting more out of her. I'm doing all this. And the minute you actually put boundaries up to them, they're like, she's such a bitch now.

• 50:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like, they'll, if you think about it like this, they're taking rocks and pebbles and throwing it at you. And the second we pick it back up to throw it back at them, it's like, oh, oh, my gosh.

• 50:16Alex Cooper?

  Wrong with you. And you're like, what? You've been doing this whole time?

• 50:19Speaker 01

  Here's a taste of your medicine, babes.

• 50:20Alex Cooper?

  Huh? Interesting.

• 50:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 50:22Alex Cooper?

  Did you, but did you worry, though, like, as a woman, like, they're getting labeled that? How have you navigated? Being more in your power and owning it and trying to not people please without fear of judgment from other people.

• 50:39Speaker 01

  I just am learning to care less. It won't erase anyone's reaction. But if you care a little less, it'll get quieter and smaller and you won't even notice it. So if you don't notice it, it's invisible. You don't see it, you don't hear it.

• 50:54Alex Cooper?

  It's a great point.

• 50:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:55Alex Cooper?

  Okay, a few years ago, you talked about how hard it is to accept love from others when you don't fully love yourself first. Looking back, let's talk about romantic life. How do you think that affected past relationships that you've been in?

• 51:12Speaker 01

  I think to be able to properly love someone, you have to do the proper self-work. Or you will love them in an unhealthy way because you're loving yourself in an unhealthy way. So you're only doing what you know. You know, I think the hard thing too, is like dating in the public eye.

• 51:30Speaker 01

  Anybody I would stand next to or be next to, oh, this is who she's dating. This is her man, this is this. And it makes it hard too. And then you'll go out to events and the guy's like, oh, you're with this person? It's like, huh, I don't know him. So then sometimes it'll cock block. And I'm like, I be gosh darn it.

• 51:50Alex Cooper?

  I feel like that's not my man and I don't claim that energy.

• 51:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So sometimes that's frustrating, but.

• 51:56Alex Cooper?

  What is something that you used to put up with that you would never put up with anymore in romantic relationships?

• 52:02Speaker 01

  Disrespect. Disrespect? Yeah, you're getting blocked.

• 52:08Alex Cooper?

  Oh, we're hitting them with the full block.

• 52:10Speaker 01

  Oh, yes, I'm great at it.

• 52:11Alex Cooper?

  Give me an example of disrespect.

• 52:18Speaker 01

  Like

• 52:20Speaker 01

  talking out of turn, like if you speak to me in a condescending manner or as if I'm less than who you are, don't do that. And the thing is, is that I can't get punked out because I have my own. You can't punk me out, buddy. We're sitting at the same table.

• 52:39Speaker 01

  So treat me like a human being.

• 52:41Alex Cooper?

  It's so crazy, though, when I feel like when I was younger, the disrespect and like making you feel less than, sometimes it's so subtle that at first you don't really see it and it can start to wear on your self-esteem and then it takes you being like, wait, and it sometimes it takes you getting out of the relationship to look back and be like, how long had that been happening that this person was doing this to me? But then the next relationship you get in, your antennas are up a little bit more because you're like, wait a second, this is a pattern I'm recognizing from that one in the past, it just did that to me. And I see this, and although it's familiar, and I know how to do this dance, because

• 53:23Alex Cooper?

  sometimes we can like keep repeating, it does become more clear the more you go through the steps.

• 53:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, sometimes people like to humble you.

• 53:33Alex Cooper?

  Oh, yes, they do, Chloe.

• 53:35Speaker 01

  In the very subtle, small ways. And it's like, is this my lover or a hater?

• 53:43Alex Cooper?

  It's so.

• 53:44Speaker 01

  Subtle.

• 53:45Alex Cooper?

  Yes. Like you can't, you almost couldn't sit here and give me an exact concrete. It would you be like, you'd have, I'd have to put the puzzle together for you. Because on this Wednesday, it was like a little comment about this. And it was like a little comment about like my makeup that day.

• 54:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:01Alex Cooper?

  And it was like a little backhanded, but I thought was like, oh, and then a month later it was this.

• 54:06Speaker 01

  It continues to escalate.

• 54:08Alex Cooper?

  And it's like, no.

• 54:10Speaker 01

  You're my biggest hater.

• 54:11Alex Cooper?

  I peep everything.

• 54:12Speaker 01

  You're a full op living in my house.

• 54:14Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, I'll peep everything. I might not say it in the moment, but I'll just, I don't forget. I'll calculate.

• 54:21Alex Cooper?

  On your new mixtape, Red Action. There is a song about catching someone cheating. How did you find out?

• 54:31Speaker 01

  Let me tell you. So this has been a while ago because I've been like on my own for a minute. Through DMs, they'll DM my godmom. Even sometimes the girls, the girls or just a random fan and it'll be all the information. I've seen a lash extension and I didn't have them in the, like on the tile of the shower floor. Or like a hair tie.

• 54:55Alex Cooper?

  This man was having sex with these women in your home?

• 54:57Speaker 01

  Not my home.

• 54:58Alex Cooper?

  Oh, but his home?

• 54:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, okay, okay. Excuse me, you don't have the keys.

• 55:04Alex Cooper?

  You're like, that's why we don't live together, babe.

• 55:06Speaker 01

  Hair tie, that's not my hair texture.

• 55:09Alex Cooper?

  And in those moments, Chloe, what do you do? Do you collect it as evidence, put it in a little ziplock? Or are we, are we going at it?

• 55:15Speaker 01

  It depends on how I'm feeling.

• 55:17Alex Cooper?

  Okay, okay.

• 55:18Speaker 01

  And.

• 55:19Alex Cooper?

  What'd you do when you found the eyelash?

• 55:21Speaker 01

  I kept it internal and I took a picture of it and I texted my godmom. And she's like my voice of reason. Hallie, she'll have me crash out.

• 55:33Alex Cooper?

  Your godmom's like, put it in the evidence file.

• 55:36Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 55:36Alex Cooper?

  Get him when he least expects it.

• 55:39Speaker 01

  Or, or just walk away.

• 55:40Alex Cooper?

  Do you think that was the same girl?

• 55:42Speaker 01

  I have no idea. But I do know I peeped it and I kept it quiet until the next morning.

• 55:47Alex Cooper?

  And then what'd you do?

• 55:48Speaker 01

  And then I walked in the bathroom like it was brand new, like I just saw it. Because I still wanted my night of cuddles. I'm that, I'm that toxic.

• 55:57Alex Cooper?

  No, no, no, there is nothing better than seeing the text or seeing the evidence. And you're like, uh huh. And then using it to your advantage when you want to bring it up. Because now it's on your timeline, Chloe. So it's all, it's up to you. Okay, the fact though, hold on. You cuddled this man and in those moments though.

• 56:20Speaker 01

  This was me looking up at the ceiling in the dark.

• 56:23Alex Cooper?

  You're, he's like dead asleep and you're like.

• 56:25Speaker 01

  This is me.

• 56:28Alex Cooper?

  You're like, I thought I want the cuddles, but now all I can think about is the fucking hair tie. And those lash extensions. Like you have the bodily get to a place where you can hold that in. And then the next morning you confronted.

• 56:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:39Alex Cooper?

  Did he lie?

• 56:40Speaker 01

  Of course. Okay, deny, deny, deny, deny.

• 56:42Alex Cooper?

  I do remember at first you did write, um, music in the past about wanting to get revenge by cheating back.

• 56:47Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 56:48Alex Cooper?

  Did we ever do that?

• 56:51Speaker 01

  It depends on what your definition of cheating is.

• 56:54Alex Cooper?

  Chloe. Well, give me, give me your definition.

• 57:00Speaker 01

  My definition is like, I'll just start responding to people I never responded to.

• 57:06Alex Cooper?

  No, the literal rage.

• 57:07Speaker 01

  And then, once I'm out of it, I just won't text them back. That's my definition. I'll be like, yeah, take that.

• 57:13Alex Cooper?

  Chloe, that is so relatable where you're like, watch this. And then literally you wake up the next morning, you're like, I don't, why did I even answer him?

• 57:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:20Alex Cooper?

  Like, ew.

• 57:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:21Alex Cooper?

  Get away from me. Okay, so you just need to get the rage out.

• 57:23Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 57:24Alex Cooper?

  I want to ask you some questions about dating deal breakers.

• 57:27Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 57:27Alex Cooper?

  I'm going to give you a scenario. So tell me, you're giving this person a shot, or you're breaking it off?

• 57:32Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 57:32Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 57:33Speaker 01

  Cute, cute, cute.

• 57:34Alex Cooper?

  Your sister doesn't vibe with him.

• 57:36Speaker 01

  I'll give him a shot.

• 57:40Alex Cooper?

  Wait, older or younger sister?

• 57:43Speaker 01

  Both. Okay, we don't have a say. Even with my brothers, we don't, like, of course, we'll say a little something, but we don't dictate. Like, we just want them to be happy. We'll just peep from afar.

• 57:54Alex Cooper?

  Does Hallie in the past have a big opinion on the guys you date?

• 57:57Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 57:58Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 57:58Speaker 01

  My sister will vocalize it louder than I would. She'll tell me, and I'll be like, oh, why do you think that? I'll tell her, and she'll be like, girl, don't talk about my man like that.

• 58:06Alex Cooper?

  And do you feel like when she says things, you probably go the opposite direction of her? When she's like, I don't like this, and you're...

• 58:13Speaker 01

  No, I'll just continue on the path I was going on.

• 58:15Alex Cooper?

  Collected is evidence.

• 58:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:16Alex Cooper?

  Okay, perfect. He says, I love you, a month in.

• 58:24Speaker 01

  I, my first instinct is to say not, but I am a sucker for love. And a guy has said that to me a month in, and I fell for it.

• 58:31Alex Cooper?

  Oh, Chloe, you got so happy for a second. I was like, he loves you, and you're like... Okay, wait.

• 58:36Speaker 01

  I have been like, oh, my gosh, it's love at first sight. You just have this strong emotion towards me. Of course, it's real.

• 58:44Alex Cooper?

  But that's also love bombing.

• 58:46Speaker 01

  That is love, and then you're like, stop out of it.

• 58:48Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 58:49Speaker 01

  You're like, but it is not, oh, my God. Okay, so we're like, we're working on that.

• 58:52Alex Cooper?

  Mm-hmm. He says he'd rather stay in with you than go out in public.

• 58:58Alex Cooper?

  Shot.

• 58:59Speaker 01

  Because I'm not going out with him in public.

• 59:02Alex Cooper?

  Love that for you. He doesn't introduce you to his family until a year into dating.

• 59:07Speaker 01

  Not. I'm a family girl. I want to be around your family. I don't want to feel like I'm hidden from your family. Like, the public is different.

• 59:14Alex Cooper?

  But your family, then you might have one, two, or three around them.

• 59:18Speaker 01

  It's a good point.

• 59:19Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, it's like a year is a little long. Like, what are we doing?

• 59:21Speaker 01

  Like, if I don't meet any of your family within the three months?

• 59:25Alex Cooper?

  What are we doing?

• 59:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:26Alex Cooper?

  He has cheated in past relationships, but says he has changed.

• 59:30Speaker 01

  Shot. I feel people will change for the right person.

• 59:33Alex Cooper?

  I don't agree with the whole, like, once a cheater, always a cheater.

• 59:35Speaker 01

  I don't agree with that either.

• 59:37Alex Cooper?

  But if it's been multiple relationships, you gotta keep an eye out.

• 59:43Speaker 01

  Sometimes, or they just might have not been the right one. So it depends.

• 59:48Alex Cooper?

  Okay. He won't share his location.

• 59:50Speaker 01

  Oh, shot. I'm not sharing my location. You're not going through my phone. I'm not going through yours. This is the thing about me. I set boundaries for myself. If you give me your location, I will be looking every moment I can get. And I will be freaking myself out if I see you down the CVS at the street. And I'm like, oh, he's with such and such at CVS. Just don't give it to me.

• 1:00:11Alex Cooper?

  You're like, just help me help you.

• 1:00:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, don't give it to me. I'm not giving you mine.

• 1:00:15Alex Cooper?

  Oh, I like that. Self-awareness.

• 1:00:17Speaker 01

  I don't want you popping up on me at my place of work trying to be romantic.

• 1:00:20Alex Cooper?

  Got it. Oh, I like that. We obviously have been referencing the mixtape. Resurrection, producer Timberland. First of all, congratulations.

• 1:00:28Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:00:29Alex Cooper?

  Um, we've been talking about success and what success looks like, but that is just like...

• 1:00:34Speaker 01

  It's pretty freaking cool.

• 1:00:35Alex Cooper?

  Insane. What was the inspiration behind this mixtape?

• 1:00:39Speaker 01

  So, it's crazy. It always starts with me posting my production videos online. Have mercy, this. I've always been such a huge fan of Timberland. And even on my album and pieces, I got a Missy Elliott feature. And I've never been shy of crediting them to my experimenting with my production. It was around a quiet time. I was just making music. And the momentum kind of died, went away. And I was just doing Legos, making beats at home. My god, mom again. She goes, "All I see are pictures, pictures, pictures. Why don't you show what I see you doing online?" She's like, "What happened to your production videos?" I'm like, "You know what? You're right. Fine." So I start posting my production videos again. I post one.

• 1:01:24Speaker 01

  You know, I'm like, "Oh, let me write a couple lyrics to it. You know, I'm making music anyways. I'll just do this for Instagram." I made this rough song called "Keep Watching." I posted, got like 12K comments, went around, Timbaland comments, "Oh, this is hard," something like that. He DMs me, "Oh, are you doing something with this? I'd love to hop on it." I was like, "I'm not. It was just for Instagram." "But if you want to do something else," I was like, "Let's do a beat video together." So I sent him a beat. He gave me his number. I texted him the beat. He sent me his back a month later. We filmed the video. People were like tripping out. He FaceTimes me while I'm in St. Lucia making music. "Yo, so I have this idea. How about we do a project together? Would you be down for that?" "And we could make it just like this?" I was like, "Yeah, keep sending me whatever."

• 1:02:07Speaker 01

  I make music almost every day. So he'd send me the beats. I'd write to them. He'd send me the beats. I'd send it back to him. And we made this full project, even like probably 10 more songs along with this in two months. All not in person.

• 1:02:23Alex Cooper?

  Oh, so you guys have just been vibing, like sending it back and forth and just coming up with this like incredible piece of art?

• 1:02:30Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:02:31Alex Cooper?

  Congratulations. That's really incredible.

• 1:02:33Speaker 01

  Thank you. And the crazy thing is, the guy who mixed my very first solo album, Chris, I didn't know he mixed all of, uh, Timbaland's records. So he was like, "I have this guy such and such." And I was like, "He was my mix for my first album." So it kind of like brought all of us back together and he's currently mixing my third album right now. So, but everything just sonically sounds as one because one is the same mixer. Two, it just was free flowing. We didn't think anything was really gonna come of it. He, he called Sherman. He's like, "Yo, you think we could get this done, blah, blah, blah?" She's like, "Yeah." She put it together and here it is.

• 1:03:17Alex Cooper?

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• 1:04:17Alex Cooper?

  Okay, so you're just making music every single day casually. You're also acting. Like, you have your new movie that's out called Strong. What can you tell us about this movie?

• 1:04:31Speaker 01

  I shot this movie in Cape Town in South Africa for three months. And I'm really proud of this movie. Like, I'm the one who likes sitting at the edge of my seat. I love the mess. It's a little bit of all of that, plus music.

• 1:04:47Alex Cooper?

  I was gonna say, there is a lot of deceit and lying in this movie that I feel like that's why I was like asking you a little about deceit and lying. Because it's like, there is a little bit of overlap. What drew you to the role?

• 1:05:02Speaker 01

  I loved the role of Leila. It was also the mess. I'm not even gonna lie, I was gagged.

• 1:05:07Alex Cooper?

  The twists and the turns. My whole team and I were talking about it. We were like, so then you think you know what's happening and then you don't. And then, and then, and then, and then, and then. What was the most fun part of filming in Cape Town?

• 1:05:19Speaker 01

  The stunts. I'm an adrenaline junkie, girl. I've always wanted to be like, a superhero or just a bad, you know, like, because I love doing the stunts. I'm an adrenaline junkie for real. I think that was my favorite part.

• 1:05:33Alex Cooper?

  I- Think it's so incredible when I get to sit down with women and it's like you started in this industry doing what you loved and just doing it like I'm gonna you know throw our videos up and you know your sister was like we're I'll I'll press record I hope this works for you guys and then to see literally you like slowly just continue to establish yourself and yes you've had so many high highs but I think what's really impressive about you is like kind of what we talked about today which I think is really relatable it's like finding your balance though in the midst of the high highs or the low lows is how you can sustain in an industry like this which clearly you are

• 1:06:13Alex Cooper?

  finding your way and you're doing and so to be an actress to be a singer to have a very famous public relationship with your sister and also to be able to both individually have solo careers like you're navigating so much and you're doing such an incredible job

• 1:06:32Speaker 01

  Thank you. And you as well though like I'm so proud of everything that you stand for and the platform that you give women to speak on and what kind of makes me feel less of like like oh it's my life in the public whatever everyone's going through shit everyone has problems and sometimes I'll hear them and be like and I was upset about this so I think it makes me feel better knowing that when I'm walking into a room I'm not the only one going through something and it makes me appreciate people more too.

• 1:07:09Alex Cooper?

  Such a good point.

• 1:07:10Speaker 01

  And if they do hurt you you can kind of understand where it came from and realize that it wasn't you it was something they were dealing with internally because a lot of times our first thought is it's me I'm a burden I made them react this way I'm not good enough and.

• 1:07:30Speaker 01

  Okay, my therapist told me this before and I share it a lot with all my people I'm close with. It's the stepping on your toe analogy. Have you heard that?

• 1:07:37Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 1:07:38Speaker 01

  Okay. If you're walking and you step on someone's toe, you don't go, oh my gosh, I'm horrible. I stepped on someone's toe. I'm a piece of, you know.

• 1:07:48Speaker 01

  You don't go, get out my way. You were in my way. That's why I stepped on your toe. No, you go, hey, you know what? I'm really sorry. I stepped on your toe. I can't promise it won't happen again because accidents happen, but I'm really sorry. That wasn't my intention. And you keep it pushing.

• 1:08:02Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 1:08:03Speaker 01

  That's how I've been approaching life now because I used to be the person to be like, oh my gosh, I'm horrible. Nobody likes me. This, the world is ending. So now I take life at the stepping on the toe analogy. And sometimes it's hard. Don't get me wrong. Like I'm mentally there, but my emotions won't catch up.

• 1:08:23Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, but I love it because what you're also saying, and it goes all the way back to the beginning of our conversation was like in you turning 28 and in as women, us just continuing to, it's not even about getting older. It's like learning more about ourselves, experiencing more life, getting to know what we like, what we don't like, learning our voice and how to use it. Like we just said, like we talked about going from being a people pleaser to like actually being like, wait, I can say no. And even if that makes people uncomfortable, those people probably shouldn't be in my life. Like there's so much that we continue to gain as we just continue to go through these experiences, even if they're hard. And I think your life and

• 1:09:05Alex Cooper?

  your story, and I just wanted to say thank you for sharing today because so many themes that we kind of tapped into, I think are so applicable for a woman watching today. And just everything that you've done, like I can't wait to continue to follow your career.

• 1:09:21Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:09:21Alex Cooper?

  I'm so happy for you. We're all gonna keep following and with the movie and the mixtape and then the album and like, obviously we don't know if, you know, you and Hallie will be doing another thing together at some point, but there's so much good coming for you and I wish you.

• 1:09:39Speaker 01

  I receive that.

• 1:09:40Alex Cooper?

  Oh, I wish you the best 28th year.

• 1:09:43Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:09:43Alex Cooper?

  You are really gonna eat.

• 1:09:44Speaker 01

  28.

• 1:09:45Alex Cooper?

  28. Thank you for coming on Color Daddy.

• 1:09:48Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me.

• 1:10:04Alex Cooper?

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