Gayle King: He Cheated with My Close Friend

Join Alex in New York City for an interview with Gayle King. Gayle opens up about navigating sexism and racism in the industry and her 50-year friendship with Oprah. She details the moment she discovered her ex-husband was having an affair with one of her friends and how she eventually ended that marriage. Gayle also reflects on aging, confidence, and embracing every version of herself. Enjoy!

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Alex Cooper?

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• 0:45Alex Cooper?

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• 1:30Alex Cooper?

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• 2:13Alex Cooper?

  What is up, daddy gang? It is your founding Father Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy.

• 2:22Alex Cooper?

  Gail King, welcome to Call Her Daddy.

• 2:23Speaker 01

  I'm thrilled to be here.

• 2:24Alex Cooper?

  I am.

• 2:25Speaker 01

  Thank you so much.

• 2:25Alex Cooper?

  Oh, I'm so, so happy to be here with you. I know you're also very busy, so thank you for taking the time to sit down with me.

• 2:32Speaker 01

  Like you're not busy. We are, we are, as the kids say, booked and busy, and you are one of the kids.

• 2:37Alex Cooper?

  No, so are you, Gail, okay?

• 2:39Speaker 01

  I feel like one of the kids. Honest to God, I feel like one of the kids.

• 2:42Alex Cooper?

  No, you just told me you're like, you did your whole morning show, you're here, and then you're gonna be on Broadway later. I'm like.

• 2:46Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 2:47Alex Cooper?

  And no time for naps.

• 2:48Speaker 01

  Broadway tonight, Broadway tonight.

• 2:51Alex Cooper?

  Okay, for the past 14 years.

• 2:54Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:54Alex Cooper?

  You have been hosting the CBS Morning Show, and in addition to that, you are the editor at large of Oprah Daily.

• 3:01Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 3:02Alex Cooper?

  You have had such a successful career, and I'm just so excited to get into all of it with you today. I realized something, though.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  What?

• 3:09Alex Cooper?

  Last time we were together.

• 3:11Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 3:12Alex Cooper?

  We kind of went viral. Actually, you went viral.

• 3:15Speaker 01

  No, you went viral.

• 3:16Alex Cooper?

  No, no, no, you went viral because.

• 3:18Speaker 01

  What, what happened?

• 3:19Alex Cooper?

  Okay, let's just tell the people if they're not familiar.

• 3:21Speaker 01

  What happened?

• 3:23Alex Cooper?

  So I went on Gail's show and.

• 3:25Speaker 01

  CBS Mornings, yes, she did, yes.

• 3:27Alex Cooper?

  CBS Mornings, you know, and Gail proceeds to ask me what my favorite sex position with my husband is.

• 3:32Speaker 01

  Like, that's an unfair question to you.

• 3:35Alex Cooper?

  And absolutely fair question. However, I swore I saw, like, the cameraman drop to the ground, the lights are, like, following, people are running in the background, you're on air host.

• 3:46Speaker 01

  They were calling standards.

• 3:47Alex Cooper?

  Literally, and your co-hosts were like, they didn't, they, everyone looked shocked.

• 3:51Speaker 01

  The paramedics came rushing in.

• 3:53Alex Cooper?

  Did anyone know that you were planning to ask me that?

• 3:55Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 3:57Alex Cooper?

  Okay, I figured.

• 3:58Speaker 01

  And it, and it's not like I was thinking what would be fun. It's just that, Alex, my thing is, I believe anything can be asked. It depends, but you have to have the right setting, the right inflection, the right person, like, you know, and I wouldn't ask that of most people, but because you are you and what you do, I knew you would get the joke.

• 4:17Alex Cooper?

  I.

• 4:17Speaker 01

  I knew you would get the joke.

• 4:18Alex Cooper?

  I so got the joke, and it was, it's so crazy when the internet runs with things because I'm like, guys.

• 4:23Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:24Alex Cooper?

  This has been, this is, this is what I got started on. This is how I did get my success or my money or whatever you want to say. Like, that was the origin days, right?

• 4:34Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:34Alex Cooper?

  And so I love that you paid ode to it, but literally people's faces were like. I was also laughing some like, what if I did answer it? Like they like tackle me to the ground. Okay, but being on a morning show.

• 4:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:46Alex Cooper?

  We need just to hear it from you, like, what is the morning routine and how early are you waking up? What's going on?

• 4:52Speaker 01

  I mean, it's crazy. I wear this watch because so I can figure out how much sleep I'm not getting, which I'm very worried about. You as a mother to be, you you're gonna have to do better than I am. Like last night, I got four hours and eight minutes of sleep.

• 5:05Alex Cooper?

  Gail.

• 5:05Speaker 01

  That is, that is not good.

• 5:06Alex Cooper?

  That's not good.

• 5:07Speaker 01

  But the schedule that I have, there's, for me, there's no way around it. So I don't get great sleep. You know, you get hot flashes sometimes. Yours are coming later. You you can wait for that. So my schedule's nuts. I I like to take a bath every day. Some people do showers. I like bath. Do you like showers or baths?

• 5:25Alex Cooper?

  I like both, but I have to be in specific mood for my bath.

• 5:28Speaker 01

  Oh, no, I have a bath every day. So I'm sitting there in the tub with all the bubbles. I like bubbles. Car comes and picks me up. Then you go to the studio. We have meetings before the show. I have, you know, hair and makeup, you know, a little something about that, because I don't wake up this cute. It takes a village. And then we're off to the races.

• 5:45Alex Cooper?

  What time do you wake up?

• 5:46Speaker 01

  The alarm goes off at 3:24. So I need three snoozes. What? I can't, I'm not one of these people, maybe you are, that the alarm goes off, you jump out of bed. I need three, no, I need three snoozes.

• 5:56Alex Cooper?

  I need a little bit of time, too.

• 5:58Speaker 01

  No, I sort of crawl out of bed, turn on the bath water, crawl back into bed and do three snoozes.

• 6:02Alex Cooper?

  Oh, you go right into the bath?

• 6:03Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 6:04Alex Cooper?

  Wow.

• 6:05Speaker 01

  Then it's like, wake up!

• 6:06Alex Cooper?

  And so you're gonna be out late tonight?

• 6:09Speaker 01

  Well, this is unusual. I try not to stay out too late, but this is gonna be a different kind of night because they asked me, would you turn this down? Rita Wilson, you know her, she's putting together a group of people to do, to read celebrity biographies onstage. And so she said, would you be willing to do it? Yes, I'd be willing to do that. There are some things, Alex, you'll see, that are worth staying up late on a school night. This is one of them.

• 6:32Alex Cooper?

  But usually, what time do you go to bed?

• 6:34Speaker 01

  Well, it's not good.

• 6:35Alex Cooper?

  Well, you're like, don't ask me that.

• 6:37Speaker 01

  I'm not out, but it's not good.

• 6:38Alex Cooper?

  I know. I feel like I remember when I watched the morning show with Reese and Jennifer and I was like, this is so crazy that it is dead dark outside and you ladies are just getting, and it's your real life.

• 6:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 6:49Alex Cooper?

  They're just acting it. You're living it.

• 6:51Speaker 01

  Yep. But I still love it.

• 6:53Alex Cooper?

  You love it. You love it.

• 6:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I do.

• 6:55Alex Cooper?

  Before, obviously, you were Gayle King in terms of just your massive success and everyone knowing your name and who you are. Um, I want to go back. You had to pay your dues. You were a production assistant at a local TV station in Baltimore.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  In Baltimore, yeah.

• 7:10Alex Cooper?

  Can you talk to me about, like, early on, what do you think made you stand out?

• 7:15Speaker 01

  Well, I've always been, um, a chatty person. You know, I can remember in 4th grade, my parents getting a note, "Dear Mr. and Mrs. King, Gayle is very bright, but she talks a lot in class and tends to be disruptive." I say all this to say, I've always been curious about what people are doing and how they do it. So what made me stand out is people could feel that about me. And there's a difference between being a brown-noser and being really genuinely interested in what you're doing. I don't know how to explain it, but I do know the difference between somebody that's just kissing your ass just because, or somebody who's genuinely interested. I was always genuinely interested. And so that stood out to people. I always say, get a job. When you get a job, make sure the boss knows your name, but in a good way.

• 8:00Speaker 01

  I was that type of kid.

• 8:01Alex Cooper?

  Okay, that's what I was gonna ask you. For a young woman, right now, getting into the workforce.

• 8:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:07Alex Cooper?

  What advice would you give them to make a strong first impression to have the boss know them in a positive way?

• 8:13Speaker 01

  Well, my whole thing is, I, I pride myself on preparation. I'm always super prepared. I, I, I say, "Preparation is my superpower." And when you are prepared, even if it doesn't go according to plan, there's always something you can pull out of your back pocket to say, "Okay, well, that didn't go the way I planned it. Let me come up with something else." So I think you have to be super prepared. You know, when you're on an interview, even if you don't have a friggin' question, ask one. You know, I can see, I can always tell interns who are gonna make it. There are some that are sitting there, they're just looking at their watch. You see them too. And there are others that are saying, you know, "Do you need anything? How can I help you do, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah?" You notice those type of people.

• 8:52Alex Cooper?

  It's a good point. They're proactive about their approach.

• 8:55Speaker 01

  They're proactive.

• 8:55Alex Cooper?

  It's a great point. At that same job

• 8:58Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 8:58Alex Cooper?

  in Baltimore

• 8:59Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 9:00Alex Cooper?

  is where you met your lifelong best friend,

• 9:03Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 9:03Alex Cooper?

  Ms. Oprah Winfrey.

• 9:04Speaker 01

  This year, we will have been friends, Alex, listen to this, for 50 years.

• 9:08Alex Cooper?

  No, we're gonna get to that because when I found that out, it made me emotional and also, well-

• 9:15Speaker 01

  You have a best friend.

• 9:16Alex Cooper?

  I do, and I think whenever you have that like one person in your life, you're like, oh, my gosh, that is your person. And so you think about that person in a way, and like, I feel like you guys are the embodiment of friendship, which I want to talk about today. 50 years.

• 9:31Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 9:31Alex Cooper?

  Can you take me back to that night that you guys met? And like, tell me what happened.

• 9:38Speaker 01

  So I'm the production assistant, she's the anchor, and in newsroom hierarchy, I'm here and she's here. There was a bad, bad snowstorm, and she invited me to spend the night at her house. We didn't really know each other well, but we were both, you know, 21, 22, young, black, single women. I went to her house, I said, but I don't have any clothes. She goes, I have clothes. We were both size 10 then. I said, you know, I don't have a toothbrush. She goes, I have, you know, we can stop at the drugstore. I draw the line, I'll stop and we'll get a drug, then we'll get a toothbrush. She said, I said, I don't have underwear. She goes, I have underwear, it's clean. So that night, it's like, you must feel this about your best friend, Laura, you know her.

• 10:14Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 10:15Speaker 01

  We went that night, and we stayed up all night talking. We found out we had similar philosophies. Do you think so and so is boinking? What do you think about that? Or, I don't like so and so and so. I heard her say one day on TV where she goes, you know, I don't believe in gossip. I called her up and said, since when? Yesterday? So, but we spent that whole night talking about people and found out that we had similar philosophies. We've been friends ever since.

• 10:41Alex Cooper?

  That is one of the best moments where you're like, I know we should go to bed, but I cannot stop.

• 10:46Speaker 01

  I know.

• 10:47Alex Cooper?

  And when you find that with a girlfriend,

• 10:48Speaker 01

  So true.

• 10:49Alex Cooper?

  it's stronger than almost anything you can ever find in your life, right?

• 10:53Speaker 01

  Cause I find, I know, maybe you feel this too. I know a lot of people, but when it comes to true friendship, that circle is very, very, very, very, very small. Cause you could tell her anything.

• 11:03Alex Cooper?

  Anything.

• 11:04Speaker 01

  And you know it won't be betrayed, you will not be betrayed.

• 11:06Alex Cooper?

  And you're right, it's like, there is, of course, a beautiful element to different types of friendships.

• 11:11Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 11:11Alex Cooper?

  But the ones that are like, that is your person.

• 11:14Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 11:15Alex Cooper?

  It's the tiniest, tiniest crew, and it should be that way.

• 11:18Speaker 01

  All you need is one.

• 11:20Alex Cooper?

  All you need is one.

• 11:20Speaker 01

  All you need is one.

• 11:29Alex Cooper?

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• 12:12Alex Cooper?

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• 14:18Alex Cooper?

  I'm curious, like, as you guys were coming up in your careers, in what ways were you able to lean on each other while you were both navigating this very heavily male-dominated industry?

• 14:30Speaker 01

  I think most of the time, we were just oblivious. She and I both thought, you know, you work hard, you do the job. You know, we weren't thinking about we were women. We weren't thinking we were black. We were just thinking, let's just work and do a good job. And I think that was our mindset too, very early on. And it was only, I know, I know, we laugh about that now, like, God, we were so naive. Of course, that was racism. Of course, that was sexist, you know, but that, at the time, that is not the lens that we viewed it through. We've looked back later now and we can see things very differently. But we were both just, you know, and then we went off to different jobs, but we still stayed in touch. And it's been so interesting to see, you know, because she was Oprah Winfrey. Now she's Oprah, wed free at lights.

• 15:14Speaker 01

  What, it was fun for me to see that, that change. That was kind of fun.

• 15:19Alex Cooper?

  That's something I wanted to ask you about because I think there is still this narrative that there is only room for a select amount of women to be at the top. And people have such a, I think, a hard time understanding, like, well, how is there not jealousy between you and Oprah? Like, how is there not, and I have even said, like, seen, like, there are literal people who have said, like, oh, well, Gail, you're just existing in Oprah's shadow. Like, how have You both navigated in a in a form like getting pitted against each other.

• 15:50Speaker 01

  Well, my thing is this, Alex. I say I never see myself in her shadow. I always say I see myself in her light, and I do mean that. I see myself in her light. I have never, not once, thought, God, I wish I could be her. I think I can do what she does because I don't believe that. I think as as alike as we are, there are also some differences. Like, I love people. I love lights, camera, action, and Oprah's very fine sitting at home with a book. Like, I can remember in Chicago, Princess Diana was in town. Princess Diana, a private party, I called to say, what are you wearing? She goes, I'm not going. I go, you're not going? She goes, no, I have this, this, this. I mean, I would have trampled little children had I been invited to something like that.

• 16:34Alex Cooper?

  Oprah, we gotta go. And she's like, babe, I'm on chapter 20.

• 16:38Speaker 01

  I know, exactly. That's exactly right.

• 16:41Alex Cooper?

  Oh, interesting.

• 16:42Speaker 01

  I was in Connecticut. She's in Chicago. So I called to say, what are you wearing? What time? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. She goes, no, you know, I have X, Y, and Z to do. That is not how I live. If I have a once in a lifetime experience, and that is a once in a lifetime experience, except later on, she did have a private lunch with Princess Diana at the palace back in the day. So there, yes, there's, there's, that's called flex.

• 17:07Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, you're like, hold on, hold on. Where's my invite for that? Hold on.

• 17:10Speaker 01

  I am not passing up once in a lifetime experiences.

• 17:14Alex Cooper?

  I get that.

• 17:14Speaker 01

  But I am happier for her sometimes than she is for herself. And I had my own life, too.

• 17:20Alex Cooper?

  That's what's so beautiful is like when you have a friendship where you're both trying to succeed.

• 17:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 17:24Alex Cooper?

  And I've been talking about this a lot with my friends because we're all on different paths. Success also looks different to everyone, right?

• 17:31Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 17:31Alex Cooper?

  Is it a job? Is it family? Is it whatever it be, friendship? Um, but I think there's so much intense fixation specifically on women when it comes to this, and it just isn't for men.

• 17:42Speaker 01

  Nope.

• 17:43Alex Cooper?

  For some reason. Do you think that we've made any progress that like, one woman's success doesn't take away from the others? Like, do you think people are starting to be more acclimated to that concept?

• 17:54Speaker 01

  I would like to think so.

• 17:55Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 17:56Speaker 01

  I would. I would like to think so because the truth of the matter is there really is room. And so just because you have something, it doesn't take anything away from me. When you feel good about yourself, and I do, when you feel good about yourself, it's only if you don't feel that you measure up, that maybe you're jealous of somebody.

• 18:15Alex Cooper?

  I also just feel like, speaking of 50 years, you both have probably been there for each other in the darkest, hardest moments. And she's been down, and usually if she's down, you're up. And if you're down, she's up. And that is friendship where it's like, someone has to, in the moment, be the anchor when the other person's going through it. And it always should be flip flopping because that's life, right? And if it is always one person that's needing it, needing it, needing it, then that's probably not as balanced of a friendship.

• 18:45Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 18:46Alex Cooper?

  And it feels like you guys have been able to navigate decades together in this beautiful push and pull of you need me, I got you, I need you, I got you. It's, that's just how it is. Will there be a party for this 50th anniversary?

• 19:00Speaker 01

  I know, you know, the other day, about a month ago, she said, I think, she said, I'm thinking about having a friendship party and telling everybody to come and bring their Oprah or bring their Gail. Wouldn't you guys come? I like that idea.

• 19:15Alex Cooper?

  Gail?

• 19:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:16Alex Cooper?

  I actually have never asked anyone this because I wouldn't. But um, yeah, I would love an invite to that party.

• 19:24Speaker 01

  No, the friendship party, whether it's male, female, your sister, yes. To celebrate, just celebrating friendship. And you know, people that have a true friend understand what this is. You know, the other people that don't, they go, well, you know, they're blah, blah, blah, fill in the blank about whatever you want to say about us. But people who have a true friendship, women in particular, really get it. They get it.

• 19:45Alex Cooper?

  They really get it. And that's why I was so excited to talk to you about this because I feel like a lot of my listeners right now are at this impasse where they're in their maybe twenties, late twenties, thirties. And friendship sometimes can get put on the back burner when everyone's trying to find their person, right?

• 20:03Speaker 01

  Or they don't have friends, Alex. So many people these days don't even have friends.

• 20:08Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 20:08Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 20:08Alex Cooper?

  And it feels, it can feel so isolating. You can feel really disconnected and I find that the most beautiful relationships in my life. Of course, I love my family and my husband, but like really having that girlfriend or those girlfriends that can have your back. It made me emotional for you when Oprah said this about you when Barbara Walters interviewed her a few years ago and she said, she is the mother I never had. She is the sister everyone would want. She is the friend that everyone deserves. I don't know a better person. And she said she never really expressed that before. Like what

• 20:45Speaker 01

  I got choked up watching that. I'm sitting there watching Barbara Walters eating my popcorn. And then I called her and I said, oh my God, I can't believe what you just said. Cause I never thought about myself in that capacity, all those things to her, to her. But, but we do have a very unique bond. I got in trouble once when I said, you know, cause I'm single, alert and available. I said, if I could meet a guy that was like Oprah, I'd be done. And then people took that all out of context as they often do. I mean, I said, you know, when I die, I'd like to come back as one of her dogs. They travel very well, Alex. Cashmere, private planes, sign me up.

• 21:23Alex Cooper?

  I want to come back.

• 21:24Speaker 01

  Call me shallow.

• 21:26Alex Cooper?

  I am so coming back as one of Oprah's dogs. I'm right there with you. I don't care if that's shallow. Okay, wait, two things. Number one, why do you think that you never thought or saw yourself like that when you heard Oprah say that about you?

• 21:41Speaker 01

  Because we're just living our lives. People say, what do you guys do? What do you talk about? I go everything and nothing. You know, don't you call in, you don't even have anything really to talk about other than what you doing?

• 21:52Alex Cooper?

  You're like eating in the pantry or walking around your kitchen.

• 21:55Speaker 01

  No, mine is Betty Crocker chocolate frosting out of the can.

• 21:58Alex Cooper?

  Love, love. You're just like eating your frosting like so Oprah and she's like, Gail.

• 22:03Speaker 01

  You're like, what are you, what are you doing? You know, so it could be big things. It could be little things.

• 22:07Alex Cooper?

  Isn't that interesting though, that sometimes the closest people to us in our life, we don't say those things.

• 22:14Speaker 01

  No, no. I, I, but it took me aback to think that I was that or I am that. But I feel that about her too. All you need, number one, she knows I would never betray her. People come to me. I also think, once you've been in the inner circle, even if we had a falling out today, I would not, I would not say, I would not write a book. I wouldn't do any of that stuff that I see people do. Because once you've been in the inner circle of anyone's life, it's a really privileged place to be. And I, I hold that very sacred. I know I can trust her with anything. And she me.

• 22:49Alex Cooper?

  Everyone has it, different degrees. Obviously, being public people is one thing, but everyone has it, whether it's high school, college, you're at your job, like anything when it comes to loyalty and trust. There is such. There are people who want to blindly trust and want to believe in the good and humanity and believing in people and the connection that you're building right in front of your face. And when you find out something happened behind closed doors that you somehow find out about, it's so disorienting and it makes you really rethink a lot of things going on around you.

• 23:21Speaker 01

  It does.

• 23:22Alex Cooper?

  But it doesn't make you rethink those people that have always been your day ones.

• 23:25Speaker 01

  I mean, that's why, you know, Oprah has such a good spidey sense. I can remember when I had a boyfriend in high school who I just thought was the cutest, da da da da da. I hadn't talked to him in 20 years and he reached out to me and said, you know, he would like to see me. And I was like, yes, I would love to see you. And Oprah said, don't bring him to your house. I go, why? And she said, because you haven't talked to him in 20 years. You don't know him. I go, yeah, but he was da da da da da. She goes, I'm telling you, don't bring him to your house. Well, of course, I brought him to my house. So I met in New York and I said, I met in New York and I said, I like how this is going. Come back. I lived in Connecticut at the time. And so we brought him back to the house in Connecticut. And she called and said, how'd it go? I go, it was great. She said, you didn't bring him to the house?

• 24:10Speaker 01

  I go, no, I didn't. You, you told me not to. Of course, I didn't bring him back to the house. She goes, well, that's interesting. You didn't, so you didn't bring him? I go, no, I didn't. Why are you asking? She said, because the National Enquirer has called. And they said they have a, uh, they're calling with a story from, and said his name, that he said he spent the weekend with you, and that he was at your home, and that there is a shrine to Oprah in your home, which is absolutely not true. There's a shrine to Oprah in your home, and he has evidence of that, and they wanted to know if I had a comment about that. So I was totally busted.

• 24:46Alex Cooper?

  Gail.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  Totally busted, only to find out Alex, he was a cocaine addict.

• 24:52Alex Cooper?

  Gail.

• 24:52Speaker 01

  So there was a time that I had fallen asleep. We had, we had had burgers, it was great, we were cooking on the grill, we were in the hot tub. And I did fall asleep because I felt safe. Mr. Man had gone around taking pictures, had pictures of me sleeping, and was offering to sell it to the National Enquirer, and Oprah, but Oprah, she set me up so beautifully, she said, "So you didn't bring him?" "No, because you said, 'No, don't bring him, no.'"

• 25:18Alex Cooper?

  She's like, "Mm-hmm."

• 25:18Speaker 01

  "We, we went to a play," I said, "and then we went to a restaurant." I named all, "We went for a carriage ride in Central Park."

• 25:26Alex Cooper?

  She's like, "So you weren't wearing your blue nightie last night, and you weren't sleeping to the left side of exactly 11? Because he took a picture of you, and you're like, 'Shit.'" So the goal, basically the whole rule is, always trust Oprah.

• 25:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 25:39Alex Cooper?

  Oh, no.

• 25:39Speaker 01

  That's a good rule.

• 25:40Alex Cooper?

  Literally, always trust Oprah. Wait, Gail, no.

• 25:44Speaker 01

  I know.

• 25:45Alex Cooper?

  But even that, first of all, the lack of privacy and the complete invasion of,

• 25:50Speaker 01

  I know, Alex, I know.

• 25:52Alex Cooper?

  The complete lack of boundaries, the entitlement.

• 25:53Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 25:54Alex Cooper?

  The, like, the intentions are so off. Clearly, he had a vision of what he wanted to do that night.

• 25:59Speaker 01

  Poor you. Alex, I don't think he liked me. Alex, I think the whole thing was a setup. So I felt stupid with two Os.

• 26:08Alex Cooper?

  I would say, no, no, but the shrine comment, you're like, he had an agenda.

• 26:13Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 26:15Alex Cooper?

  He had an agenda. A shrine of Oprah is actually psychotic.

• 26:17Speaker 01

  And then, he went through the 12-step program, where you're supposed to call people that you've offended or something, or whatever the word is. He called because he wanted to apologize. That's when I heard he was a cocaine addict at the time, and he just wanted to apologize to me. I was like, boy, bye.

• 26:35Alex Cooper?

  You're like, you know what?

• 26:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:37Alex Cooper?

  I wish I kept you back in high school and you should have stayed there because what the hell?

• 26:40Speaker 01

  But he was cute.

• 26:41Alex Cooper?

  And he was taking pictures of you sleeping. Not so cute. Um, okay, wait, Gayle, also in memory of, uh, you know, the shrine and also you saying that people, people literally to the point have made comments that they are like, there's no way this isn't a romantic relationship.

• 26:58Speaker 01

  I know, I know. I know.

• 27:00Alex Cooper?

  I ju- I, I don't even want to speak for you, but like, tell me how that feels when you guys have had to handle those headlines, handle those rumors, handle that speculation.

• 27:12Speaker 01

  Well, I tell you this, it used to really bother me. I was recently divorced and there was, the National Enquirer did a story about that's the reason for the divorce, because they're secretly gay. Number one, if we were gay, we would tell you because, believe me, there's nothing wrong with it. It's just, I prefer a man. I prefer a man. So, so we would tell you. And then I would say to her, you've got to say something on your show because it's hard enough for me to get a date on a Saturday night and now people think I'm a lesbian. You've got to say something. And she said, no, we should just leave it be. I said, no, you've got to say, she, she said, no, I'm, just leave it alone. Leave it alone. So, well, that's fine for you to say. You have somebody. I don't. So it used to really bother me and now, even today,

• 27:55Speaker 01

  there's still people that say, well, you know, the truth is, I don't care. I've, I've now gotten to the point in my life that very few things get to me. Because, you know, when you go on social media, it is an accelerator on hate. As long as I feel good about what I'm doing, the people I respect and trust are okay with it, who will say, well, mom, maybe you shouldn't have done that, or somebody was, somebody whose opinion I value. Otherwise you'll drive yourself nuts. So now I really don't care.

• 28:23Alex Cooper?

  I am sorry though that you have to deal with that because I also just feel like that is a clear indicator, the people who are saying that, there's two options. Number one, they have never had a genuine gorgeous female friendship in their life. But you know what I mean?

• 28:39Speaker 01

  Yes, I do know.

• 28:40Alex Cooper?

  Again, it's for the salaciousness and it's so sexist. And it's so, it's, it's just horrible that they put you in that position. But it is also a weird thing. And again, I guess we always should just listen to Oprah. But it's like when to speak up and when not to, right? And that's a hard thing that I'm sure you've had to navigate in your career. Cause in that moment, I agree, you'd be like, hey, guys, like.

• 28:59Speaker 01

  Say something. Yeah. Sometimes when the noise gets too much. I, I, I feel at least let me say my piece, whether it's about that or something else. Just so I'm on the record of it. But most of the time I just, I, I'm not going to, you know, there've been news stories and they say TMZ is out front. Do you want to go out the back door? I go, no, I don't. I, I, I don't want to look like I'm some criminal with my thing over my head or I, I. So my thing is always be prepared. Sometimes you can just say, you know what? I don't want to talk about that or I don't have anything to say or good to see you. But I don't want to look like I'm, uh, running from, running from something when I know I haven't done anything wrong.

• 29:42Alex Cooper?

  I think that's a great point.

• 29:51Alex Cooper?

  Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Airbnb. As you guys know, I have basically been working double time throughout this pregnancy to bank episodes for the month that I will be on maternity leave. And a few weeks ago, it all just kind of hit me. I was like, wait, wait, wait, where did summer go? And I was talking about this with Matt and he ended up surprising me with a little staycation. He booked this beautiful home on Airbnb in Malibu so that we could pretend like it was summer while it's still warm here in LA. The weather was perfect. The house was right on the beach, which was so relaxing and amazing. It also had just such a gorgeous kitchen. We stayed in, we cooked dinner together.

• 30:32Alex Cooper?

  And you know, daddy gave me my cooking skills. They have, they have gotten better. They've gotten a little bit better through pregnancy. But it was really just so nice to unplug and spend that time together before the baby comes and we move into this completely new chapter of our life. So whether you're planning a cozy weekend away, or you're just looking for an excuse to unplug for a few days. October is the perfect time to get out of town. Booking a home on Airbnb makes the trip feel even more special because everyone has room to actually spend time together. Whether you're coming back after a long day out or you're also just cooking dinner. Airbnb makes settling in even easier because you can order groceries for your trip and have all the snacks and essentials delivered

• 31:17Alex Cooper?

  after you arrive. My favorite fall trips always have one thing in common, an amazing place to stay. That's why I always look at Airbnb first. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Ross. Fall is about finding pieces you love, making them your own and creating looks and spaces just right for the season. Whether you're updating a small apartment or a spacious home, drawn to timeless neutrals or bold seasonal touches. Ross makes it easy to imagine what's next and bring your fall vision to life. Ross makes fashion accessible to all with up to 20 to 60% off other retailers' prices on the brands you love. Find your nearest Ross at rossstores.com. This is a paid ad by BetterHelp.

• 32:01Alex Cooper?

  So anytime that I am finding myself having a habit that I just cannot kick, I'm like, okay, I need to talk about this in therapy. Listen, guys, everyone has habits, mindsets, or patterns that don't serve them. But recognizing what they are and learning how to let them go can be so important. It's literally the first step towards creating meaningful change. And therapy with BetterHelp, one of the leading online therapy platforms, can be a space to explore where those patterns come from and develop healthier habits and mindsets for a more fulfilling life. With over 30,000 therapists worldwide, BetterHelp has served millions of people globally. BetterHelp makes it easier to fit therapy into your routine with flexible ways to connect that work for different schedules and lifestyles.

• 32:43Alex Cooper?

  Plus, BetterHelp therapists have at least three years and 1,000 hours on hand experience and hold all required education, training, and certifications. You can meet with a range of professionals from marriage and family therapists to social workers and counselors. So Daddy Gang, if you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/daddy. That's betterh-e-l-p.com/daddy.

• 33:15Alex Cooper?

  Can I ask you a couple of questions about friendship for our listeners today?

• 33:19Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 33:20Alex Cooper?

  There is a really big conversation online, especially around women right now, about honesty and advice in friendship, and I would love your take. At what point do you think being brutally honest can become too much? And like, is there a line you can cross with friendship?

• 33:40Speaker 01

  I think it depends on the friend. I think it depends on the friend. So I would tell, if it's somebody I was really close to, if I'm not so close, I'm staying out of it. So it really does depend on the type of friendship that you have.

• 33:53Alex Cooper?

  I agree.

• 33:53Speaker 01

  I used to joke with Oprah all the time when people said, you know, what would you do if you caught Gail and Stedman in bed together? Because I did catch a friend in bed with my husband. What would you do? And I always say to her, you shouldn't even be mad. You should just say, oh, I can tell you're having a breakdown. Let me get you to the hospital. I can tell there's something very wrong. This is not you. You're having a breakdown. So here, hon, let me take you and let's go to the hospital together to get you some help. Because I would have lost my friggin' mind. That's just, there are some lines you just don't cross.

• 34:26Alex Cooper?

  Right, you're like, no, I would be, I would have to be admitted because there's just no way.

• 34:30Speaker 01

  I done lost my mind, yes.

• 34:33Alex Cooper?

  Okay, that's good. Has being radically honest in a friendship ever backfired on you?

• 34:39Speaker 01

  Not a friendship that mattered. That's the difference, Alex. Not a friendship that mattered.

• 34:44Alex Cooper?

  And I also think like, kind of what you said, like, it also depends on the friend, and it's very important also your delivery.

• 34:50Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 34:51Alex Cooper?

  You need to read where the friend is at.

• 34:53Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 34:53Alex Cooper?

  If you know they just went through this horrible thing, and you know she needs to break up with the boyfriend, but she's not ready yet, you going in and being like, you have to dump your not shit boyfriend, like you're just pouring salt in the wound.

• 35:04Speaker 01

  Right.

• 35:04Alex Cooper?

  It has to be a very concerted effort to be thoughtful about the way that you're approaching it and how you're delivering this to them, because they're clearly the ones that are not in a positive situation right now.

• 35:15Speaker 01

  Exactly right. And you say, you know, please take this in the spirit in which it's intended. And there's a difference between being radically honest and being cruel.

• 35:24Alex Cooper?

  Such a good point. And that just takes reading the room and being a good person to know when to go in and be honest.

• 35:28Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 35:29Alex Cooper?

  I know Oprah had an opinion on your ex-husband.

• 35:33Speaker 01

  Oh, Lord, yes, she did.

• 35:35Alex Cooper?

  I want to talk a little bit more about that marriage.

• 35:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:37Alex Cooper?

  I know, because you just mentioned infidelity was one of the major reasons that it ended.

• 35:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:43Alex Cooper?

  And I want to get to that, but first, before the affair, how were you feeling about that relationship? Like, were you happy?

• 35:51Speaker 01

  It's a good question. I was happy. And you know how they say the wife always knows? I swear to God, I did not. I did not. And people say, well, of course you know. No, I really didn't. Now, it's not like we hadn't had arguments or anything, but I didn't think that it was in such disrepair that he was boinking around. I did not. I did not think that.

• 36:12Alex Cooper?

  When, if you were happy, do you think it shifted for you?

• 36:16Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, you know, hindsight is always 2020. I always say if I was writing a book, the first line in my book would be whack, the sound of a tennis ball. And she said, nice shot, Bill. And the way she said it, there was such an intimacy in her voice that I had a, the hair stood up on the back of my neck and I thought, why am I feeling that way? It was weird. Why am I, because she was married too. We were married, we both had two little kids, so our kids were friends, the spouses were friends. But there was something about the way she said, nice shot, Bill, that I, then I looked and it looked, I thought, did I see them looking at each other?

• 37:00Speaker 01

  And when I asked him in the car, what are you talking about? They try to gaslight you, by the way. What are you talking about? And so he goes, absolutely not. So I did think, oh, you're just overreacting to what? But I did have a visceral reaction to that. That said, I still didn't think anything. And Oprah always says, you know, sometimes you get a whisper, and then when you ignore the whisper, then it becomes a little pebble. And then you ignore the pebble and next thing you know, you know, it keeps growing and then you have a full-blown catastrophe. Mine was, I came home and caught him unexpectedly. I wasn't due home. So, but you know, people say, the therapist said, it probably had to be that extreme for you to believe it.

• 37:41Speaker 01

  Because if you had caught them and they weren't buck naked, Alex, in my friggin towel. If you hadn't seen it, you might, he might have said, oh, she was just over here. We were, you know, we were, um,

• 37:53Alex Cooper?

  Working on something?

• 37:54Speaker 01

  Yes, working on a pro- something.

• 37:56Alex Cooper?

  Okay, wait. Can you take me to that day? Like, how did you walk in on that?

• 38:00Speaker 01

  Well, this was back in the day when you would go, I used to drive myself to the airport then, Alex.

• 38:05Alex Cooper?

  Yes, you did. Yes, you did, Miss Kail King.

• 38:08Speaker 01

  Be- before Uber and Lyft and when you call into car service. But I drove myself to the airport and the airline would call you to say, listen, your flight has been canceled, but you can get, if you get on the next one, you can get out of there. So I got, I was in DC and, you know, I, Kirby and Will were little. They were like two and three at the time. So, you know, I said, guys, we gotta hurry. Go. I'd driven myself to the airport, so I didn't even have time to call and say, look, the flight was da, da, da, da, da. I'm coming home. I didn't have time to do anything. We jumped in, jumped, got to the airport, got in the car, came home. And the alarm was set, which I thought, that's strange. Because you're in here by yourself. You're a big ass, grown ass man. He never sets the alarm.

• 38:53Speaker 01

  And next thing I know, he comes flying out of the room and he's got a towel on. He goes, you can't come in. What do you mean you can't, I can't come in? What are you talking about? He goes, you can't come here. Come in. Someone's here. I go, someone like who? There's nobody here. I mean, I was so oblivious. There's nobody here. Get out of the way, Billy. There's nobody here. He goes, really, you can't come in? And I, so I started searching the house because I didn't believe him. I didn't believe him. I get down and there they are, or there she is, cowering behind the door. In my towel, Alex, was a nice bath sheet. In my towel, in my towel.

• 39:31Alex Cooper?

  What did you say?

• 39:33Speaker 01

  I said, I can't believe that you are here and that you are doing this. I can't believe that you are doing this.

• 39:39Alex Cooper?

  She was your friend?

• 39:40Speaker 01

  Yes. And I even said, I thought we were friends. It sounded so pitiful. I thought we were friends.

• 39:47Alex Cooper?

  And so your kids were in the house? How did you manage?

• 39:50Speaker 01

  Well, I had a nanny, I had a nanny. Uh, she was from Jamaica. And, and I did leave the kids outside because he was so adamant. You know, they're, you know, they're little toddlers. So Virge is with the, with the kids and I said, Virge, take the children and go to the back room. Go to the back room and shut the door. And she said, what, what is it? What is this, ma'am? What is it? I said, so and so is here. Let's give her a nice name. What's a good name?

• 40:16Alex Cooper?

  Casey.

• 40:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, Casey is here. And so she goes, and I said, and they're naked. Now Virge is an old Jamaican woman. She goes, Lord have his mercy, ma'am. Lord have his mercy. Lord have his mercy. Oh, ma'am, she peed in your toilet, ma'am. I go, Virge, I, I don't need that right now. I don't need that right now. Just take the kids and just go in the back room and shut the door. Just, so I went back and they said, Mom, is Aunt Casey here? Cause they could hear, I said her name. Is Aunt Casey here? I went, no, no, no, she's not here. No, no, no, she's not here. Uh, just stay back here. Now, when I, the, when, when I opened the door, the alarm went off. And you know, if you don't shut it off in time, the police come.

• 40:59Alex Cooper?

  Oh, no.

• 41:00Speaker 01

  So the police came.

• 41:01Alex Cooper?

  Gail.

• 41:02Speaker 01

  The police came. And they said, hey, oh my God, it's Gayle King. I was a local news anchor. So I was well known in the local community. Hey, it's Gayle King. Are you okay? I go, yeah. You know, I was coming in. I didn't set off the alarm in time. I'm so sorry. And they said, could I get your autograph? And I'm just thinking, yeah, sure, sure, sure. I wanted to say, could you take out the trash? But I didn't, but I didn't. And I didn't want them to know because I, it's, it's a type of thing that they screw up, but you're thinking, I don't want anybody to know when I haven't done anything wrong. I just wanted to get them in and out as quickly as possible.

• 41:38Alex Cooper?

  How do you think?

• 41:38Speaker 01

  That was not a good night.

• 41:40Alex Cooper?

  No, Gail, but how do you think? Cause sadly, I can imagine there are people actually watching that have gone through something like this. Like, how did you stay so composed during that moment?

• 41:51Speaker 01

  Well, because I was thinking, the kids are here. I don't want anybody to know. That was my main thought. I don't want anybody to know. That would not happen to me today. It would be like, get this da-da-da-da-da and take her da-da-da-da-da.

• 42:06Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 42:06Speaker 01

  But you know, I kept thinking, I don't want it to be a scene because they're little. They know this person. Um, and you just, my main thing was, how do I, which is what I do about most things. How do I handle this situation in this moment? It was only later, you know, so the first thing I do, and he, and she was married. And I said, I'm calling him, her husband. And he goes, don't call because they have a good marriage. They have a good marriage? The, the girl's pajama bottoms are in my bed. They have a good marriage? Don't call, don't call. Where does he think she is? He thinks that she's away at a conference or something. And so he said, please don't call.

• 42:48Speaker 01

  So he goes, I'm going to take her to the train station so her husband can pick her up so he won't know. So they left and went to the train station. I called Oprah. Oprah goes, wait, let me get this straight. He left you there alone and went with her?

• 43:02Alex Cooper?

  Kayla.

• 43:03Speaker 01

  I know your mouth is open. And she said, oh, girl, you don't even know how bad this is. And I'm going, yeah, but he said they had a good marriage.

• 43:11Alex Cooper?

  That's what you're like, Oprah, I love having you as a friend, but let's pretend we're not in interview mode right now. Because that's a really good point, but I don't want to hear that right now. Oprah, you're like, oh, it is such a good point.

• 43:21Speaker 01

  It was a good point.

• 43:22Alex Cooper?

  It is a good point.

• 43:23Speaker 01

  But at the time, I couldn't hear it though, Alex. I swear to you, I couldn't hear it because I'm thinking, well, God, I don't want to mess up everybody's life. So she said, you don't even know how bad this is.

• 43:32Alex Cooper?

  So you never called the husband?

• 43:33Speaker 01

  No.

• 43:34Alex Cooper?

  Did the husband ever find out?

• 43:35Speaker 01

  No, I called after talking to Oprah, two hours later.

• 43:39Alex Cooper?

  Was she your first call?

• 43:40Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, she was definitely my first. I didn't tell my mom. I'm close to my mom at the time. My mom is no longer with us. I was very close to my mom. I talked to my mom every single day, twice a day. Because I didn't want anybody to know. I've got three sisters, didn't tell them. The only person I told was Oprah, the only person. And then she said, well, fuck him, call her husband. I go, you think I should call? Yes, call. Now, by now, it's been two hours. So I call him and he's, you know what he said? He said, she told me you would be calling.

• 44:12Speaker 01

  She said that you came home early, unexpected, and you draw, you draw, you drew the wrong conclusion. And she told me you would call and say that you thought they were having an affair. Masterful, isn't that masterful?

• 44:27Alex Cooper?

  Masterful.

• 44:28Speaker 01

  So, so I'm expecting this call. So he said to me, and, and they were both doctors, psychologists, as another layer. Um, he said to me, you are delusional and out of touch with reality, and I suggest you get some help. Well, then I said, okay. You think I should get some help? Does your wife have a pink satin pajama top? Does she have some green mint panties that go with that? And oh, by the way, um, give me a guy's name.

• 45:00Alex Cooper?

  Richard.

• 45:01Speaker 01

  By the way, Richard, there are semen stains in my bed. So am I delusional and out of touch with reality? And then I said, go fuck yourself. And I hung up the telephone. I know. Wasn't I strong? I said, go fuck yourself.

• 45:17Speaker 01

  Wasn't that good of me?

• 45:20Speaker 01

  But it took, but it took over two hours and Oprah's saying, are you crazy? Are you fucking nuts? Call him. I went, no, Oprah, I can. He said, bub. She goes, what he said? Call him.

• 45:31Alex Cooper?

  To get, though, that met with the delusion.

• 45:34Speaker 01

  I know. I'm delusional and out of touch with reality. Yes.

• 45:37Alex Cooper?

  The rage I would have felt of like, I'm the fucking delusional one.

• 45:41Speaker 01

  God, I haven't told all these details. This is not good.

• 45:43Alex Cooper?

  This is good. This is call her daddy, Gail. The girls are gonna love you.

• 45:48Speaker 01

  This is not.

• 45:49Alex Cooper?

  They're taking notes right now.

• 45:50Speaker 01

  No, they're gonna think she's, but I, I, I cry for that girl.

• 45:54Alex Cooper?

  No, I know.

• 45:55Speaker 01

  I cry for that girl.

• 45:56Alex Cooper?

  Gail, what's so frustrating, but also why I do love doing this, is like, as women, we don't all have an Oprah.

• 46:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 46:07Alex Cooper?

  And I think a lot of-

• 46:08Speaker 01

  But shouldn't we have common sense?

• 46:10Alex Cooper?

  Yes, but in those moments, I'm sorry, but when a man is calling you and saying, you're fucking delusional.

• 46:15Speaker 01

  And out of touch with reality. And you're in- And you should get professional help at that part.

• 46:19Alex Cooper?

  Right, right. And he's the professional, actually. You're like, wait, aren't you the professional?

• 46:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 46:23Alex Cooper?

  Emotions sometimes can take over, and you forget about common sense, and you're in that moment, and then you can be like, am I the delusional one? Or, or, oh my gosh, you feel so isolated because they're all on the same team and you're alone. So many women go through that feeling. And then you're left with- Maybe it is my fault.

• 46:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:42Alex Cooper?

  And, and so it's like when we talk about these things, it is empowering to be like, no, no, no, you saw what you saw.

• 46:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 46:49Alex Cooper?

  You did nothing wrong.

• 46:50Speaker 01

  Yep, I did see what I saw.

• 46:52Alex Cooper?

  And so many times somehow the woman who walks in and see, it's like, you are made to feel like the crazy person. And it's like, how the fuck did we get here?

• 47:00Speaker 01

  Exactly right. You know, but what's interesting, when you have two children, when you have children, if I hadn't had children, it would have been game over. But, but we went to counseling, tried to work it out, actually got divorced and got back together. We actually got divorced and got back together. And then I realized he hadn't really changed, but I was turning into such a shrew. I would be out in the garage feeling the hood of the car to see if it was warm. I was going through his phone and I thought, I don't want to live like this.

• 47:27Alex Cooper?

  You're losing yourself.

• 47:27Speaker 01

  Only to find out, he was cheating again. He was cheating again. But now, I had to go back with him because he, he was crying, he was apologizing. And I said, but now he'll be with somebody else and then he'll be all better. And then she'll get, and Oprah goes, no, he ain't changed. I go, yes, I said, Oprah, you don't understand because you don't have children. He was on his knees and he was crying. She goes, yeah, okay. She got so sick of hearing, she got so sick of hearing, she goes, please go back with him, please. I will drive the moving van, please. That's when you realize you're telling people too much.

• 48:00Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, Oprah's like, honestly?

• 48:01Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 48:02Alex Cooper?

  Sure, go have your happy life with this man. Call me when he does something again, that's so stupid and he cheats on you guys.

• 48:07Speaker 01

  I know she wanted to say, shut the fuck, to her credit, she never did. If you ask her now, she goes, I feel like I went through that fucking divorce. It was exhausting. But now years, I just saw him, I just saw him yesterday because my grandchild's christening. I just saw him. He ain't looking so good.

• 48:23Alex Cooper?

  Nope.

• 48:23Speaker 01

  He has a new girlfriend, but I, I am in such a good place that at the weddings and christenings, I'm, I'm like, can I get you anything? Him and the girlfriend, she seems very nice and lovely. Can I get you guys anything? I'm so glad you came, it's good to see you. But that only comes with time. Before somebody would say, how are you? I go, you know what happened to me? Then you see their eyes glaze over and you go, I just wanted to say hello lady.

• 48:47Alex Cooper?

  Oh, I'm not okay. You're like, and another thing, and they're like, holy shit.

• 48:51Speaker 01

  Then you realize, nobody wants to hear it. And, and the kids love their dad, the dad loves the kids. So you've got to feel, figure out a way to navigate it.

• 48:59Alex Cooper?

  Well, and I think what's so real, what you're saying, Gail, too, is, What you're describing is what you literally see in the movies.

• 49:07Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 49:08Alex Cooper?

  You had one of those.

• 49:09Speaker 01

  It's a movie.

• 49:09Alex Cooper?

  Literally a movie. Like you had one of those situations happen to you that was so disorienting. So unreal.

• 49:17Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 49:17Alex Cooper?

  So grand.

• 49:19Speaker 01

  So unwell.

• 49:20Alex Cooper?

  Unwell to the nth degree. So like all of it. So dysregulating, all of it.

• 49:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:25Alex Cooper?

  That then you can still have the feelings toward what that happened to you as a human being.

• 49:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:32Alex Cooper?

  Anyone would be fucked up from that for a second, right?

• 49:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:36Alex Cooper?

  Or a long time.

• 49:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:36Alex Cooper?

  And you can also look at the person and move forward and find your closure. But it doesn't take away from the fact that you still had to walk in with two children sitting outside and see the person that you were in love with and you had committed your life to and you had gotten married to.

• 49:52Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 49:53Alex Cooper?

  Ruining everything.

• 49:54Speaker 01

  Let me tell you another layer since we're just here chatting. When I said to her, I can't believe you're doing this, he said, she said to me, he doesn't even love you. He's only with you for the children and his lifestyle because I was a big time anchor. I was doing very well. He was, he was, I was paying for him to go to Yale Law School. Very smart guy. Very, very smart guy. He doesn't even love you. And then what do I do? I go, is that true?

• 50:21Alex Cooper?

  Ew.

• 50:22Speaker 01

  I know. Couldn't you cry for her? I could cry for her.

• 50:25Alex Cooper?

  I could cry for her, but I also relate to her because I've been her before too. We've all been there where it's like.

• 50:30Speaker 01

  Where someone cheated?

• 50:31Alex Cooper?

  I've, I've been cheated on, yes. And.

• 50:34Speaker 01

  Did you catch them?

• 50:35Alex Cooper?

  I caught him through his technology.

• 50:40Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 50:40Alex Cooper?

  And I.

• 50:42Speaker 01

  I like that. I caught him through technology.

• 50:45Alex Cooper?

  Technology.

• 50:45Speaker 01

  And I. I went old school.

• 50:47Alex Cooper?

  Yes. And unfortunately, I also saw him naked.

• 50:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:50Alex Cooper?

  Um, in the technology.

• 50:52Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 50:52Alex Cooper?

  Um, but that moment, I think we can all relate to something just happens within you as a woman where you're just like. Oh my God, like, did I do something wrong? Could I have been better? And there's like a weird thing where you're willing to fight for it. Because you need a second to regulate and you don't even know why you're fighting for it. And now we can look back with perspective as grown women to be like.

• 51:14Speaker 01

  I say, thank you, Black baby Jesus, for saving me because I'm very glad. I mean, I just said, imagine, you know, and I never bad mouthed him to the children. They were young. When they became teenagers, then I told them the truth. But I would never bad mouth them, never. Um, and I just said, I'm just so, I wouldn't have this life, honestly. I would not be at CBS. I would have still probably, because I love my job. I love being a local anchor in Connecticut. I was, had a great career, was very happy there. I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing today. I was at Sirius XM where you are today. I had a show there that I loved. I wouldn't be at Oprah Daily. I wouldn't be at CBS, so many things.

• 51:54Alex Cooper?

  Happened because you got, but did you ever find out how long they had been together?

• 52:00Speaker 01

  Well, he said it, that it wasn't long. I never, but I don't believe anything he says. You know, because at one point, this, God, the more I think about this, she's, because you know what I said? I said, couldn't y'all go to a hotel? He said, that got expensive. So when you say how long, I don't know. I don't know.

• 52:23Alex Cooper?

  Gail.

• 52:24Speaker 01

  So keep in mind, I was gone all weekend. I know, I know. I can't believe the shit he said to me. I can't.

• 52:29Alex Cooper?

  I mean, from the betrayal of a woman looking at you saying, he never loved you. He doesn't love you. That is like.

• 52:36Speaker 01

  No, she said, he doesn't love you. He might have, I think he loved you in the beginning. She goes, but he doesn't even love you. He's here for the lifestyle. We had a nice lifestyle and the children.

• 52:44Alex Cooper?

  And you want to, you almost want to say to that person, as if you being here naked right now, didn't just kill me.

• 52:52Speaker 01

  I know.

• 52:52Alex Cooper?

  You want to kill me even more by saying that.

• 52:55Speaker 01

  I'm sorry. Yes, I know. I know.

• 52:58Alex Cooper?

  But it's the gaslighting.

• 52:59Speaker 01

  But there again, there again, I got to thank Oprah for this. She said, you know what? The fact that she could talk to you that way in front of him. Imagine what he has said to her about you.

• 53:11Alex Cooper?

  God, she's good. God, she's good. That's why she's the best.

• 53:15Speaker 01

  Because I hadn't thought of that. She goes, just the fact that she felt, she felt comfortable enough in your house, buck naked with your towel. That she could put you down in front of him and he didn't defend you. Imagine what he has told her about you. Isn't that good? And I go, I haven't thought about that.

• 53:33Alex Cooper?

  We're all like, damn Oprah, we didn't think about that one either. Shit, you're good. Oh, wow.

• 53:40Speaker 01

  She's good.

• 53:40Alex Cooper?

  Right, the disrespect is on another, you're right, she should have been screaming, I'm so sorry.

• 53:45Speaker 01

  That's what she said. You don't even realize how bad this is. You don't, and so she said, listen, I will, I will send, because like I said, she's always had more money than me. She goes, I will send, I will send you tickets. You, Kirby and Will, come to Chicago. You just come, just get on a plane and leave, just come. And I said, but I have the Greater Hartford open and I'm live at five o'clock tomorrow. I can't leave. She goes, no, what, what the fuck is that? I go, it's a big golf tournament here that's very important.

• 54:16Alex Cooper?

  She's like, what the fuck about that, Gail?

• 54:19Speaker 01

  She goes, I will send you guys tickets. I will send you three tickets. Gail, your head has been blown off. You need to get on a plane and you need to come here. And I go, I can't, I can't, I have the greater, I mean, I look at it now and it's just so stupid.

• 54:32Alex Cooper?

  You know, though, also, and, and to her credit, and I, I love that you said she never said, what the fuck are you doing?

• 54:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, no.

• 54:38Alex Cooper?

  Talking now to everyone who has been that friend, who you watch your friend get cheated on and stay with the person. There is a level of really, really just large frustration that can come with being that friend that you're like, I'm trying to hold it down for you.

• 54:53Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 54:53Alex Cooper?

  And I'm really trying to be, and like you said, Oprah literally was like, honestly, get the fuck back with him at this point. Because I don't know, also do you like, you have to just stay so steady for them because you're not seeing it clearly in that moment.

• 55:05Speaker 01

  No, you're not.

• 55:06Alex Cooper?

  You just need someone to weather that storm with you, to just be there with you. And eventually you will be able to.

• 55:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, the cobwebs come, yes.

• 55:13Alex Cooper?

  And you'll be able to sit on the couch and be like, let's just reminisce now that I'm not, but you eventually left.

• 55:19Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 55:20Alex Cooper?

  So you found out he was cheating again. How did you find out he was cheating again?

• 55:24Speaker 01

  I mean, I, I just started.

• 55:28Speaker 01

  I could just tell, I could just.

• 55:30Alex Cooper?

  It was happening.

• 55:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was happening. It was happening. I didn't catch him. I did not catch him. And of course, he denied it. And I believe he was cheating because when we finally broke up, he was the next weekend, he was with this woman and clearly had been there for a while.

• 55:43Alex Cooper?

  When you look back at leaving, because you said there was the stability of your life, which I think is speaking to everyone who's been cheated on and stayed, right? And tried to stay. There is the stability of your life that you almost selfishly, understandably, are so dysregulated in that moment. You're like, you just want to go back to what you had.

• 56:04Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 56:05Alex Cooper?

  So you try to repair it. You go to therapy. You try to stay.

• 56:07Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 56:08Alex Cooper?

  You then are also in the garage checking if the car is hot, looking in his pockets, checking if there's little love notes like.

• 56:16Speaker 01

  And I didn't want to be that girl. Yeah.

• 56:18Alex Cooper?

  How did you eventually know you had to leave?

• 56:20Speaker 01

  Well, because I didn't like who I was. Who wants to live like that? I didn't want to be that person. And then, and keep in mind, Alex, we still stayed in the big, beautiful house. We didn't have to move. I was still working. So it's not like I had to stay because he's, you know, supporting us. It wasn't that. And I just started thinking about it. And I think, you know, I think he probably wanted out of the marriage too, for whatever reason. And I remember that one therapist said, you know, Gail, this marriage can work if you become a doormat. You know, he said to me, my ex said, I'll be so glad when this Gail King shit is over. Now, listen, I was just a big fish in a little pond. I wasn't even,

• 57:02Speaker 01

  you know, this. I wasn't, I didn't have this kind of prominence. I was a local news anchor, but I was a big deal in my state, where you're well known. I watch you all the time. And he just, he just didn't like it. Keep in mind, he's a Yale educated lawyer. He's to this day, one of the smartest people I know. I used to love talking to him because I love great conversation, very, very smart. So the therapist said, if you want to become a doormat and do everything that he wants you to do, then this marriage can last. And I, but it took me a while to understand. And that he really, really resented me. He really did. And, and I think, you know, at the end of the day, he probably didn't like me of all that I represented.

• 57:45Speaker 01

  And it's not like I walked around like, you know, I'm Gayle King.

• 57:48Alex Cooper?

  No, you just had a six.

• 57:50Speaker 01

  I used to run his bath water, Alex. A little bit of hot, little bit of cold. I pick out his clothes because he was colorblind. I mean, I tried to do everything that I thought I would fill up his car with gas so he wouldn't even have to get gas.

• 58:02Alex Cooper?

  All the little things and like you said.

• 58:03Speaker 01

  And I wanted to do them. And I want, listen, it wasn't that he asked me, I wanted to do it. I thought that was a loving, kind thing to do.

• 58:11Alex Cooper?

  I think that threatened by a woman's success is, is one of the biggest,

• 58:18Alex Cooper?

  easiest, obvious ways to just completely crumble a relationship, but it's so hard to see as a woman.

• 58:24Speaker 01

  But men say they want women who are successful.

• 58:26Alex Cooper?

  And then they get them and they're like, but, but, but be a little less. And you're like, wait, you say you want that, but then you get it. And they're like, what? And so to think about you and having someone so threatened by your success. You're so right that like now, being out of that, obviously for a while and being on your own, having gone on like, you know, dated people, whatever, like, how have you maintained now a promise to yourself essentially? That you will never allow yourself to be with someone.

• 58:56Speaker 01

  That'll never happen to me again. Well, you know, you want somebody who lifts you up. You want somebody who's proud of you. You want somebody who thinks, God, I think it's great being with you. I'm looking for him. Is he here in the room?

• 59:08Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, where is he? Oh, it's only women in the room. Shit.

• 59:10Speaker 01

  I prefer a men's body.

• 59:13Alex Cooper?

  Something I, I am interested to know is like, throughout your career and, and you know, the more successful you obviously got, you had to navigate moments where you did have to speak up. And you know, we're talking about this younger woman who was saying, oh, is that true? Do you love me or not? But that also can play into work, right? You unfortunately have also had to deal with racism in your career and in your life. I remember when you interviewed Michelle Obama and you shared that while you were covering the Super Bowl, an executive made super inappropriate comments about your hair. How have you navigated those type of moments? Cause we're talking about personal and now we can shift to. Still personal and work.

• 59:58Speaker 01

  Oh, oh, oh. No, he said, interesting, because I wore it curly. And he said, oh, that's interesting. Yes, yes, yes. He did say that. You know, or, or after I had a baby and I'm sitting, you know, you put on a couple of pounds. Hopefully you'll be fine. But you put on a couple of pounds and I came back to work. And you know how when you go into the boss's office, and I wasn't looking at his, I wasn't looking at his papers, but when you see your name, it catches your eye. Even upside down, I saw Gail, and it said Gail's butt. That's what it said, Gail's butt. And he's asking me, we're so glad you're back. You know, how is Kirby? You know, how are you feeling?

• 1:00:40Speaker 01

  And I'm saying, oh, it's great. I'm so glad to be back. And then he said, yeah, but you know, could I ask one thing? When you're sitting on the set, could you please sit closer in? Because your butt hangs over the chair. And it would really, it can be distracting. So when you're sitting, if you could scoot all the way up to the desk. I mean, now that's offensive. But there again, I'm like, oh, okay. That's what I mean. I mean, I look at that now, the same thing about, are you going to wear your hair like that? Well, that's interesting. I mean, it's, it's, you know, things you don't even think about, but that's, no one can say that to you these days.

• 1:01:18Alex Cooper?

  I was gonna say, like, how has the way that you respond to sexism and racism evolved throughout your career? Because now-

• 1:01:26Speaker 01

  Well, now, now you can say, and I have had times with executives where I say, you know what? You cannot speak to me that way. I will go in the office, close the door. I know you're pissed. I know you're upset, but you cannot speak to me that way. So if you're upset, there's a better way that we can handle this, because we're all adults. I now have no problem speaking up if, if somebody is being inappropriate or out of line with me. None. But when you're first starting, I, I didn't feel the- Ease about doing that. But I think women today are different.

• 1:01:57Alex Cooper?

  I agree, and I also think it's, it is very intimidating. Like, we, I agree, I hope it's different, but I also, and I remember when I interviewed Michelle Obama, she said, she was like, here's the reality. You have to be honest about your reality. Where are you in your career? Like, she was like, it's very easy for me as former first lady and someone with power to tell someone, you can't do that anymore. But, or are you, you know, trying to make ends meet? You're, you need to afford your apartment. This is your first job. I'm not saying put up with a degree that is to the point where it is abusive and inappropriate. But you have to read the room a little bit of, are you gonna, how far are you gonna take it?

• 1:02:41Alex Cooper?

  And that makes my heart break for women because obviously it's systemic and it needs to evolve holistically. This isn't just a one-off woman comes forward and then everything is gonna change.

• 1:02:52Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 1:02:53Alex Cooper?

  But it is fascinating.

• 1:02:55Speaker 01

  Read the room. She's absolutely right about that. And I also think sometimes when people are talking about, you should never take abuse on the job, ever, ever. But there are times when you're first starting out, you have to work really hard and you don't always get what you want. And you don't always care for the particular boss that you have. And there, you just have to know how to navigate that. And you can do that without turning yourself into a pretzel and, and without doing something that is offensive to you. But sometimes when you're first starting out, you have to work really, you gotta work holidays. You gotta work weekends, you gotta work nights. And it isn't a matter of, some people say, well, you know, my mental health and I have to take care of myself. All of that is true. All that is true.

• 1:03:39Speaker 01

  But when you're starting out, there are just certain sacrifices I believe that you have to make to be successful.

• 1:03:53Alex Cooper?

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• 1:04:35Alex Cooper?

  They let you learn what you want with over 200 career-focused programs, where you want with 100% online courses, and how you want with no set class times. Basically, you get to call the shots from day one. Visit s n h u dot edu slash call her daddy to learn more. I also was thinking about, in all these experiences that you have had, you've been in really high stakes moments in your career. One that really stands out to me is the interview with R. Kelly, where you addressed the sexual assault allegations against him. What was your mindset going into that interview?

• 1:05:17Speaker 01

  Well, I didn't know R. Kelly. I'd seen him at different places, but I didn't know him. But I'd also seen that documentary. I think most women are telling the truth. Most women, most women, there are some anomalies, but most women don't make this up because you don't want to put yourself out there that way. Most of them don't. I'm not saying they haven't. I'm not saying it never happens, but most of them don't. I saw the documentary. I believe the documentary. I reached out to him. He knew we were gonna talk about it. He knew it. But I didn't have a relationship or rapport with him as I do with some people that I interview. And he just, when he started screaming, he just went from zero to 200 in a nanosecond.

• 1:05:58Speaker 01

  And people said, were you scared? Cause he started hitting his hand and, you know, he was, he was screaming. And they said, were you scared? You know, I didn't think he was gonna hit me. I thought he could accidentally hit me. And that wouldn't be good, but I thought it would be an accident if he did, but I didn't even wanna get hit accidentally. But I'd seen interviews with him, Alex, where if he got mad, he would storm away. So I knew if I touched him and said, wait, wait, wait, he would get up and go. So I just sat there very quietly. I looked at him, looked at the chair, looked at him, looked at the chair. At one point he's screaming and a little bit of spit got right here on my lip. And I said, "Don't make a move to my soul. Don't make a move." Because I thought if I moved, he would, he would go.

• 1:06:40Speaker 01

  And so he could see that I wasn't going anywhere and he sat back down. And then we could, cause I'm thinking, God, I still got some more questions. I hope he doesn't go.

• 1:06:49Alex Cooper?

  You're like, please sit back down.

• 1:06:51Speaker 01

  Please, please, Robert, please don't leave. So he sat back down. We continued the conversation. But it went off the rails, as you know. I called his team the next day to see how he's doing. Cause when you're in it, you don't realize how bad it is. I knew that it was, I knew that he was angry, but it was only when I looked at that video that I went, holy shit. I didn't realize that it looked that way. So I called the next day to see, listen, I just wanted to check in. And they said, he's fine. As a matter of fact, he wants to thank you. Thank me? For what? Because you allowed people to see his passion and his pain. I go, is that what he saw? Yes, he wants to thank you.

• 1:07:34Speaker 01

  I mean, I haven't talked to him since. I would love to talk to him again. I don't know if he would. But I haven't talked to him since then. But I do think that-

• 1:07:42Alex Cooper?

  What would you like to talk to him about?

• 1:07:44Speaker 01

  Because, you know, after that moment, he's been in prison, he still is saying he didn't do anything wrong. I don't wanna talk to him if he's still gonna say to me, he didn't do anything wrong. You know, it's like, I only wanted to talk to OJ Simpson if he was going to tell the truth. I happen to believe that he is responsible for those deaths. And so I wrote him a letter, and I said, you know, I'd really like to sit down and talk to you, but I want to have a real honest conversation. So anyway, I just believe that I was able to remain calm because I wasn't afraid. I really didn't think he was trying to hurt me. And I wasn't done with the interview. But you couldn't, I could not have done that if I was just starting out. I would

• 1:08:29Speaker 01

  have been totally rattled and frazzled. But I wasn't.

• 1:08:34Alex Cooper?

  I mean, to see, you know, I remember that moment because the fact that he started yelling, yes, started hitting his hands, and then to physically stand up, and you just as a woman sitting there, it was so jarring, and it was so, everyone, I think, was so taken aback. And your composure in that moment, and to hear the way that you're talking about it, like, that takes some serious skill, and also what's going through your brain.

• 1:09:02Speaker 01

  And my brain was, God, please, could you please sit back down? That was what was, there was a thought bubble, it would have been, oh damn, could you please sit back down?

• 1:09:10Alex Cooper?

  I mean, that though, Gail, that though goes back to even the beginning of this interview, where you were like, I'm always prepared. And you had a vision for what you wanted to make sure you got out of that interview. And it's like, you're a professional. But was that the most heightened, you would say, any interview you've ever done has gotten? Were there even, like, security in the room?

• 1:09:31Speaker 01

  There was security in the room. There was, there was security in the room. Yes. They showed up, but you didn't see them on camera, but they were there.

• 1:09:39Alex Cooper?

  Slow down, boys. Let's see if he takes a seat. Hold on, hold on.

• 1:09:42Speaker 01

  Don't come in yet.

• 1:09:43Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, just not yet. Throughout your career, obviously, you've done so much, but you have made it clear, you have no intention of slowing down. And when you received the Journalist Icon Award this year, you said, quote, "I'm not even thinking of retiring."

• 1:09:59Speaker 01

  Not even kinda.

• 1:10:00Alex Cooper?

  What are your views on aging?

• 1:10:04Speaker 01

  Listen, I think to be able to do what I do at this stage in my life, I think it's such a blessing and such a kick. I say, I live my life full gallop. I really do. I'm so happy, and I really mean this sincerely, to be on the planet despite all the turmoil and tumult you've heard at CBS. I know there's a lot of great people there working really hard. And so I like being part of that team. We're going through some stuff, but I like being part of that team. And so to be able to do this job at this level, I think is amazing to me. It's amazing.

• 1:10:43Alex Cooper?

  What is something that you used to believe about getting older as a human or as a woman that you see completely differently now?

• 1:10:52Speaker 01

  I used to think, I remember when my mom turned 50, thinking, God, she's old. I remember that. My mom had me when she was 21. So when she turned 50, I thought, God. And I remember when I turned 50, the AARP sent me a magazine and I called them and said, please take me off your mailing list because you get the early bird specials and the coupons. Please take me off your mailing list. I don't even know how they know, but the very next day, that damn magazine came. Now I look at that and I think, God, I should have embraced that because I want to send the message that it is good, it is okay. You can thrive, you can be juicy like a peach. You can still have a great, great life.

• 1:11:33Speaker 01

  So I regret that I did that now, but now I'm thinking, what else can I do?

• 1:11:38Alex Cooper?

  I completely agree with you. I think what's so beautiful about life, and I've been having a lot of conversations with a lot of women on my show recently about, there is such, obviously, this is not new information, but we all know, there is a very specific age that society tells us women are desirable at and they are at their best. And disgustingly, a lot of it is, happens to either be underage or right of age. And unfortunately, there's so much that comes with being that age as a young woman. Even the stories we've talked about, when you're younger, it's like you're still figuring life out, you're trying. You may not even see the sexist comment, or you may feel it, but you can't do anything about it. With age comes perspective and growth and wisdom.

• 1:12:22Alex Cooper?

  And with that, the tools that you give yourself through your life experiences allows you to, I genuinely believe, live a better life. Because you just have more access to who you genuinely are. At such a young age, you're just figuring yourself out, and that is so fun in a certain capacity. But when you really hone in, and as I've gotten older and I've entered my 30s, and I know I have so much more to go, I feel so much better about this decade than I did the last one. And I believe when I speak to women on my show, that's all everyone's experience. They're like, girl, just wait. It just gets better. It just gets better. It just gets better.

• 1:13:00Speaker 01

  Alex, do you see yourself at 40? What are you going to be doing?

• 1:13:04Alex Cooper?

  Honestly, I feel like, I remember my mom saying, oh, my 40s were my best. She's like, if I think back my 40s, she was like, I was, and I'm like, that makes me so excited. I think, you know, welcoming, you know, a child to this world and starting a family for myself. Like, I do think about how much more there is to these next chapters of life, and that's really exciting to me.

• 1:13:26Speaker 01

  I can't wait for you. I can't wait.

• 1:13:28Alex Cooper?

  And like you say, like, new experiences are so fun as humans, and you do embrace it, right?

• 1:13:33Speaker 01

  That's what I said. New experiences, new adventures.

• 1:13:36Alex Cooper?

  In the spirit of not slowing down, what is a goal you have for yourself that you want to accomplish in the next five to 10 years?

• 1:13:44Speaker 01

  I would really like to meet somebody. You know, I used to think I want to get married again. Now I'm not even thinking that. But I do think life is better when shared, Alex. I do. Listen, I have a great life. It's not a, there's no, don't cry for me, Argentina. I have a great, I'm not sitting at home like, oh my God, I'm so, that's not it. But I do think it would be nice to meet somebody that you think, thinks you're fun to hang out with. I would like younger, not someone I could give birth to, but younger. You know, like Tom Brady's age. I just saw Tom Brady. I just saw Tom Brady, and I just stopped myself from going, you are so good looking. He's also terrific.

• 1:14:23Alex Cooper?

  Specifically Tom Brady. That's a good idea. You're like, what? But I get what you're saying.

• 1:14:27Speaker 01

  Tom will appreciate the sense of humor. But, but, but somebody, not somebody I could have given birth to, but I don't mind younger. Because I'm thinking, guys, my age.

• 1:14:38Speaker 01

  They wear hats. They tend to be a little boring. You can't generalize. You can't generalize. But that has been my experience so far.

• 1:14:47Alex Cooper?

  Okay, I'm gonna ask you a couple of dating questions. Are you ready?

• 1:14:50Speaker 01

  I'm ready.

• 1:14:50Alex Cooper?

  Rapid fire. Ideal date night.

• 1:14:52Speaker 01

  I love a good restaurant. I love, people say, don't go to movies, but I love a movie. I love a movie. I like a restaurant movie, then we could talk about the movie.

• 1:15:02Alex Cooper?

  Cute.

• 1:15:02Speaker 01

  I love that.

• 1:15:03Alex Cooper?

  Okay, what would people be surprised to know you're into? Just for like a guy. What do you look for?

• 1:15:10Speaker 01

  I like big Alex. In every way. You can take with that big hands, big chest, big muscles, big feet. Do with that what you will.

• 1:15:21Alex Cooper?

  Oh, Gail, you showed up and said-

• 1:15:22Speaker 01

  But I don't mind if he has a tummy, because I have a tummy. I don't mind, but I like, I like it.

• 1:15:27Alex Cooper?

  You like big.

• 1:15:28Speaker 01

  I want somebody who can pick me up and carry me across the room. And his back is a go, oh, my back! I want that.

• 1:15:37Alex Cooper?

  I want that for you.

• 1:15:38Speaker 01

  Can Matt carry you?

• 1:15:39Alex Cooper?

  He can carry me.

• 1:15:39Speaker 01

  Okay, there you go.

• 1:15:40Alex Cooper?

  You need someone to carry you. Okay, fair, fair, fair. What is a first date deal breaker?

• 1:15:45Speaker 01

  Smoking. I hate smoking. I just, the smell of it, it's not, I just don't like smoking.

• 1:15:53Alex Cooper?

  I, I feel the same. I, my mom always was like, oh, it's like kiss, kissing an ashtray.

• 1:15:57Speaker 01

  I know, me and mom, yes.

• 1:15:59Alex Cooper?

  I agree. Um, what do you want a guy to notice about you?

• 1:16:04Speaker 01

  God, what do I want him to notice first?

• 1:16:07Alex Cooper?

  Well, what, okay, how about this? Go with, this is easier to start with. What is the first thing you notice about a guy?

• 1:16:13Speaker 01

  Chest.

• 1:16:14Alex Cooper?

  Okay, so I'm assuming you don't want him to notice your chest first.

• 1:16:18Speaker 01

  I don't care about that, no. No. I, I think. I, I would like him to think she's fun. Yeah, I would like him to think she's, that she's fun.

• 1:16:29Alex Cooper?

  You are.

• 1:16:30Speaker 01

  You know, and great to be around. I would like that. I also like a guy with a sense of humor. Somebody that can make you laugh. Panties come off.

• 1:16:39Alex Cooper?

  You gotta laugh over there. What do your friends?

• 1:16:42Speaker 01

  You know, that's true, ma'am.

• 1:16:44Alex Cooper?

  What do your friends brag about when it comes to you?

• 1:16:47Speaker 01

  Well, they'll say fun, but they'll also say kind. I really do care about, I really do.

• 1:16:53Alex Cooper?

  Right. So like this motherfucker better not try to mess around with our girl.

• 1:16:57Speaker 01

  I really do.

• 1:16:58Alex Cooper?

  If you're coming, come with the right intentions. No shrines, no coke.

• 1:17:01Speaker 01

  No shrines. Could you please not be a cocaine addict?

• 1:17:04Alex Cooper?

  We're just asking bare minimum here.

• 1:17:05Speaker 01

  That's a deal breaker.

• 1:17:07Alex Cooper?

  That's bare minimum, Gail. That's not a deal breaker. That's bare minimum.

• 1:17:11Speaker 01

  I don't want a little weed, although I've never smoked weed. I never have, but I hear, I hear some people do and it's enjoyable. That would not be a deal breaker.

• 1:17:19Alex Cooper?

  On a little gummy. You want a little gummy?

• 1:17:22Speaker 01

  I've never done it. No.

• 1:17:23Alex Cooper?

  Oh, my God. You want a little gummy?

• 1:17:26Speaker 01

  I'm a square.

• 1:17:27Alex Cooper?

  No. Oh, my God. You and Oprah like filming yourselves on little gummies, like sitting there, just like, what's, when is it gonna hit us? That would, that's a special I've watched.

• 1:17:36Speaker 01

  Well, she's tried other things.

• 1:17:37Alex Cooper?

  She's, okay, okay, fair, fair. We gotta get you a little gummy. If your friends could set you up with someone, not Tom Brady, who do you think they would set you up with?

• 1:17:44Speaker 01

  Tom Brady.

• 1:17:45Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 1:17:46Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no, no, no. No, let's think, let's think. You know what's so interesting to me, Alex? I wish I could say I've met somebody that I go, I'm gonna go after him. Because I don't date married guys.

• 1:18:00Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, no.

• 1:18:01Speaker 01

  Or somebody that's involved with somebody. But I would just like to meet somebody that makes you laugh, that is fun. Like, you know who I think is, I think, I do think Tom Brady's a great guy. He's on my mind because I just saw him at a conference. But I think he's very charming. I think he's very good looking. I think he's very smart. But like, I think Hugh Jackman is fun. I think Hugh Jackman is one of the nicest people that I've ever met. He just is a nice human being.

• 1:18:26Alex Cooper?

  But you're just looking for a nice guy, Gail.

• 1:18:28Speaker 01

  Yes, yes. We have Jim Nance at CBS, does CBS Sports. Just a really nice, fun guy.

• 1:18:33Alex Cooper?

  That's what you're, you're looking for, a nice, fun guy.

• 1:18:35Speaker 01

  I am.

• 1:18:36Alex Cooper?

  Okay, last game. You are friends with so many interesting people and you've crossed paths with some of the biggest names over the years.

• 1:18:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:43Alex Cooper?

  I want to know who you would call in every situation. And Gail, you cannot answer Oprah every time.

• 1:18:48Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:18:49Alex Cooper?

  Okay. Who are you calling to guest host for you on CBS Mornings Last Minute?

• 1:18:54Speaker 01

  Oh, Last Minute. Oh, this is good.

• 1:18:59Speaker 01

  Who you know would be fun. Alex Cooper.

• 1:19:04Alex Cooper?

  That's good. I'll be there. That's good. Honestly, fair. Who would you trust to take care of your grandkids overnight?

• 1:19:11Speaker 01

  Who's, you want somebody who's very nurturing and kind.

• 1:19:18Speaker 01

  Who's just really sweet. Hoda's nice. Yeah, she'd be good.

• 1:19:21Alex Cooper?

  Oh, yeah, that'd be nice.

• 1:19:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, she'd be good.

• 1:19:22Alex Cooper?

  Who is your one call in jail?

• 1:19:24Speaker 01

  I can't say Oprah.

• 1:19:25Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, you can say Oprah for that one.

• 1:19:28Speaker 01

  Cause that would be my one call.

• 1:19:29Alex Cooper?

  No, no, no, that's, that's your call. We're all calling Oprah.

• 1:19:32Speaker 01

  And bring bail money.

• 1:19:34Alex Cooper?

  Bring the bail, babe. Bring the bail.

• 1:19:37Speaker 01

  Cause if I'm in jail, it's something really big.

• 1:19:39Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, yeah, that's fair. That's fair.

• 1:19:40Speaker 01

  Bring your pocketbook. Yes.

• 1:19:43Alex Cooper?

  Who are you calling to join you for a Euro trip this summer?

• 1:19:47Speaker 01

  Kris Jenner.

• 1:19:48Alex Cooper?

  Wait, that picture of you guys.

• 1:19:50Speaker 01

  She's fun.

• 1:19:51Alex Cooper?

  You have an iconic picture of you, Oprah and Kris in Spain from last summer and you're in coordinated outfits.

• 1:19:57Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, yes. Kris brought gifts. Because it was from the Skims line. Number one, she's a doll. I'm nuts about her. And it just, it wasn't her boat. It wasn't Oprah's boat, but it is nice. I have to say, Alex, to have friends with boats.

• 1:20:11Alex Cooper?

  I mean, Gail, that's a really.

• 1:20:13Speaker 01

  I have to say, that's a very nice thing.

• 1:20:15Alex Cooper?

  What are you looking forward to this upcoming summer? Do you have any good plans?

• 1:20:18Speaker 01

  I want to go see Celine Dion in Paris.

• 1:20:22Alex Cooper?

  Oh.

• 1:20:23Speaker 01

  I am working on it.

• 1:20:24Alex Cooper?

  Who are you gonna go with?

• 1:20:26Speaker 01

  Me and Oprah.

• 1:20:29Alex Cooper?

  That's a good experience.

• 1:20:30Speaker 01

  That's so funny.

• 1:20:31Alex Cooper?

  Oh, my God. Okay, that's fun.

• 1:20:33Speaker 01

  I know. Let's see. Let's see. Let me make up somebody. Me and Tom Brady.

• 1:20:39Alex Cooper?

  You're like, shit.

• 1:20:40Speaker 01

  Tom Brady's gonna go, Gail, he's gonna say, shut the fuck up.

• 1:20:43Alex Cooper?

  Honestly, it's so good. Um, that trip sounds amazing.

• 1:20:47Speaker 01

  It's only because I just saw him at a conference. That's all. But he is a nice guy.

• 1:20:50Alex Cooper?

  He's top of mind. He's top of mind.

• 1:20:51Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 1:20:52Alex Cooper?

  Last question.

• 1:20:53Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:20:53Alex Cooper?

  When you look back at everything that you have accomplished. Personally and professionally, what do you think you are the most proud of?

• 1:21:03Speaker 01

  I know it's so cliche, but you're gonna say this too when your favorite child comes. I'm so proud that my kids have turned out that knock on wood, they are happy and healthy and they are not bratty kids. You know, they were raised with a lot of privilege. There's no question about that. And so they could really be obnoxious, obnoxious human beings. And the best compliment I can ever get is that I met your son, I met your daughter, and they are just really lovely people. And, and I did this, thi- this will be fun for you. When Kirby was three, favorite daughter Kirby was three, and Santa was coming. And I said, you gotta give Santa your list. And she had 23 items on it. And Santa got all 23.

• 1:21:47Speaker 01

  Now she's three years old. She opens the last one, she goes, is that it? Now, she wasn't asking like, I want more. She was just saying, am I done? And I realized in that moment, in that moment, Santa should never give everything that they ask for, ever. That, in that moment, because I thought, oh, the message that Santa is sending is not good. And I decided that that would never happen again. I made sure they got jobs when they were 14, 15, when you could work. Because we have different last names, when they went away to school, they said, Mom, could you not come the first weekend? I want to establish my own friend group. Oprah's their godmother. People didn't even know that because they don't walk around talking about it. You know, they, they're just, their heads are really screwed on straight.

• 1:22:30Alex Cooper?

  That is so beautiful, Gail.

• 1:22:32Speaker 01

  So I'm, I'm very proud of that.

• 1:22:33Alex Cooper?

  And you should be, because all I've heard is parenting is a beautiful experience and it is so hard.

• 1:22:39Speaker 01

  It is hard, but it doesn't, you know, when you, when you were there every step of the way, and there's a way to do it without being, there was an article about helicopter parents. And I said to, I called Kirby, said, do you think I'm a helicopter parent? He goes, she said, what did Will say? I said, well, I'm calling you first. And she goes, I hear choppers. Listen, I wanted my kids, I wanted me to be the first thing they saw in the morning and the last thing they saw at night. When it was possible to do so. And so I was extremely involved. When they got in Little League, I don't want to go to all those friggin games. Maybe you'll feel differently. But they have too many friggin Little League games. You're bored out of your mind. And I would say to the other parents, are you guys enjoying this?

• 1:23:23Speaker 01

  They just went into extra innings. They go, oh, Gail, don't say that. I go, seriously, are you enjoying this? When you have the Christmas play or the holiday play, they don't have to sing six friggin songs. They can sing two. They don't need to sing six. All off key, you'll see. But I still loved all of those things. And don't let anybody make you feel guilty. I refuse to do that.

• 1:23:47Alex Cooper?

  That's good advice for me. I'm gonna take that. No guilt.

• 1:23:50Speaker 01

  No, because you're working and you're, you like working. And you're, you're there for the important things. I remember when, you know, it was my time to bring cupcakes and this woman said, oh, you, oh, you bought those. Yes, I did. I want to say bitch, yes, I did. Cause she, she had a little carrier that she had made and the little sprinkles and you know, the little Tupperware thing. And I go, yes, these are Entenmann's. I just got them at Stop and Shop on the way here.

• 1:24:16Alex Cooper?

  And they're delicious.

• 1:24:17Speaker 01

  And they are delicious. Or another time when Kirby walked for the first time. Um, somebody said to me, oh, you must feel terrible. You didn't see her first steps. I go, she walked at noon, bitch. It's now 5:30. She's not running. She's not in a marathon. And he had videotaped it. So I, she was trying to make me feel bad and I just, I refuse to allow people to do that.

• 1:24:42Alex Cooper?

  Right. You know how good of a mother you are.

• 1:24:44Speaker 01

  Yes, I thought I was, listen, was I perfect? No, but I, I didn't get the nutrition right. Please do better than that on, because they were raised on Spaghettios and tater tots. I don't recommend that.

• 1:24:55Alex Cooper?

  You know what? My mom did the same and I think I turned out fine. So.

• 1:24:58Speaker 01

  Did she do that?

• 1:24:59Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, she was like, listen, I don't know how to cook, so just here you go.

• 1:25:02Speaker 01

  I know. Michelle Obama freed me of that one. She's, because I said, Michelle, God, I feel so bad because she has healthy eating. She goes, Gail, that's what everybody did then. Don't beat yourself up. I go, tater tots? Fish sticks?

• 1:25:12Alex Cooper?

  Oh, they were so good. Come on. They were so good. Bagel bites. Oh.

• 1:25:17Speaker 01

  But that's not healthy, so. I know you'll do better.

• 1:25:19Alex Cooper?

  I'm gonna do better, Gail. I'm gonna do better.

• 1:25:21Speaker 01

  Promise.

• 1:25:21Alex Cooper?

  I promise you.

• 1:25:22Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:25:23Alex Cooper?

  Um, although they didn't see it on camera, I can't thank you enough. You brought me such a lovely gift for the baby and you are just the sweetest.

• 1:25:31Speaker 01

  I'm really excited for you. I really, really am.

• 1:25:33Alex Cooper?

  She made me onesies that say Daddy Gang Jr. on it.

• 1:25:39Speaker 01

  My favorite is my mom is un- my mommy is unwell.

• 1:25:42Alex Cooper?

  My mommy is unwell. I'm like, I call her mommy.

• 1:25:45Speaker 01

  You get the joke because this is called unwell.

• 1:25:46Alex Cooper?

  Yes. No, it's perfect and you're so sweet and I am so happy you sat down with me today. I knew there would be so many laughs and so many story times, but just everything you've built and also just who you are as a person. I think people talk about it all the time and I've been fortunate enough to meet you, but everyone always says like, she just radiates positivity and it's contagious.

• 1:26:08Speaker 01

  I feel that.

• 1:26:09Alex Cooper?

  And it's, and it is true. Like you are that type of person that people gravitate towards you. You want to be near. And so the fact that you just let us soak up any type of wisdom, life experience, hard times, positive times. I can't thank you enough. Seriously.

• 1:26:23Speaker 01

  Thank you. Thank you for having me.

• 1:26:25Alex Cooper?

  This was fun.

• 1:26:25Speaker 01

  And just remember, Gail is a unisex name. When the baby comes, boy, girl, it works. Just throwing it out.

• 1:26:32Alex Cooper?

  I will.

• 1:26:32Speaker 01

  Please tell Matt.

• 1:26:34Alex Cooper?

  I will tell Matt and we will not take it off the table. Okay?

• 1:26:37Speaker 01

  Yes, put it on the table.

• 1:26:39Alex Cooper?

  Can you imagine? Honestly, I can. Um, Gail King, thank you so much for coming and calling daddy.

• 1:26:44Speaker 01

  Thank you, Alex Cooper. Thank you, mom.

• 1:27:00Alex Cooper?

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