Dove Cameron: Toxic Patterns, Engagement, & Entering 30's

Join Alex in the studio for an interview with Dove Cameron. Dove shares the story of her recent engagement and sets the record straight on her and Damiano’s relationship timeline. She also opens up about finding healing from past trauma, how Disney Channel changed her life, and how women should embrace getting older. Enjoy! This episode includes discussion of suicide. Please keep this in mind when deciding if, how and when you’ll listen.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Alex Cooper?

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• 1:42Alex Cooper?

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• 2:10Speaker 03

  What is up Daddy Gang? It is your founding father Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy.

• 2:19Alex Cooper?

  Dove Cameron, welcome to Call Her Daddy.

• 2:21Speaker 04

  Thank you so much.

• 2:23Alex Cooper?

  It's so nice to meet you.

• 2:24Speaker 04

  It's so nice to meet you too.

• 2:25Alex Cooper?

  Um, you just turned 30.

• 2:27Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:28Alex Cooper?

  How are we feeling?

• 2:29Speaker 04

  Honestly, I feel great about 30. I looked right down the barrel of the lens. I was like, I feel great about 30. I don't really have any like hangups about it as far as I can tell so far. Like, I feel like I have always felt older than I was. And I think in a lot of ways, I was like waiting to be in my 30s because I feel like, for me at least, when I was younger, I was really like wanting to be heard, wanting to be taken seriously, wanting to be respected at a younger age than people were willing to give that to me. And so I've always felt like the older I got,

• 3:13Speaker 04

  the closer I got to feeling like the world was perceiving me in the way that I perceive me.

• 3:17Alex Cooper?

  I think that is so real because I feel like the society makes us feel like, oh my God, your twenties are gonna be the best years of your life. You're gonna have so much fun. And like, I feel like I've been so fortunate to sit with women on this show who are in their 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s. I just sat with Michelle Obama and she was like, wait, girl, this is the decade. 60s are the shit. And I'm like, okay, so I do think we kind of are brainwashed almost to think specific eras of our youth are gonna be incredible.

• 3:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 3:48Alex Cooper?

  What do you think you're personally excited to leave behind in your twenties?

• 3:53Speaker 04

  God, just feeling not so, like, like feeling like I don't deserve a seat at the table yet. Cause like, I really gaslight myself and I have crazy imposter syndrome around like what I deserve, what I have earned. If I'm good at something, do I know enough about this to call myself by this title? And I feel like in my twenties, it was so much like self sabotage and second guessing and hiding away because I didn't take myself seriously. And then there's something about late twenties to now 30 that I feel like.

• 4:28Speaker 04

  Even I can't really tell me that I don't know what I'm doing in this, in this area of my job. Like, I feel like I've well and truly earned some things that like in my twenties, I was a little more reticent to give myself credit for. So like, that's something I'm really looking for. I also just think like, in general, I know this is really surface level and kind of easy, but like, people pleasing in general

• 4:47Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 4:48Speaker 04

  was something that I was so guilty of and so uh, under the influence of, like, and it wasn't, it wasn't because I wanted people to like me. It was coming from a place of like, I just don't want to upset anyone.

• 5:02Alex Cooper?

  So real.

• 5:03Speaker 04

  And so unrewarding.

• 5:04Alex Cooper?

  Because actually what you're saying is, we actually start to clue into, I don't need to people please as much. I actually don't need to dress for the male gaze, or I don't need to do these things. So we're actually getting wiser. And that's terrifying to the society that we live in of, oh my God, a woman in her power. How dare she actually use her, use her voice and stand up for herself? And so it's a whole thing to repress us. But then I'm speaking to all these women recently and they're like, wait, it's amazing. I'm like, why does it always feel like we grew up as these young girls? And we're like, so terrified of aging because there's so much rhetoric around.

• 5:39Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 5:39Alex Cooper?

  You basically disappear and, and your worth is essentially gone if you're not like a fresh 21 year old. And that's why I love these conversations. We're like, guys, again, I'm sitting with a woman who's like, I'm feeling better. What a concept.

• 5:52Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think like, I think that, I mean, if you look at the, who would benefit from the messaging of, you're only valuable when you are barely legal, you're only valuable when you don't know yourself yet, you're only valuable when your body still has like leftovers of looking like a child. Like, if you look at those things and you ask yourself, like, what is the demographic that benefits from that messaging? It's not us. Like, it's not, women aren't pushing that.

• 6:23Alex Cooper?

  Nope.

• 6:24Speaker 04

  Being like, being, you know, there's a, there's a vested interest in highlighting those years that truly, in my experience, were the worst fucking years. Like, my twenties were the worst. So I think there's a vested interest in glorifying that. Because then it sort of keeps us in a position of, yeah, disempowerment.

• 6:42Alex Cooper?

  I do think also, something interesting you just said is, you've always kind of felt older. And I think there's a beauty, yes, of getting older, but then we also We have to talk about our looks, right? Where it's like, it can feel great, but then there's the standard that we feel pressure, especially in this industry. Have you ever felt pressures around botox or fillers or editing and all of that? That comes with our job to maintain your stance in this industry?

• 7:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, that's a really good, and I think like,

• 7:18Speaker 04

  I had, think I have a complex answer around that. When I was younger, I had a really intense

• 7:25Speaker 04

  sort of set of like rules and strictures about like what I was allowed to be and who people wanted me to be and how I was going to represent that, dive headfirst into that, always be that, right? And a huge part of that was like an infantilization and like I was just so scared to not be 18. Like, that was something that was really scary for me, not because I believed it, but because the culture was so loud about it. And especially my position in the culture, starting out on Disney Channel, being blonde and being so bubbly and open with, with the world in a way that was not healthy for me.

• 8:04Speaker 04

  And so a couple of years ago, I had this big reckoning with myself. I had like finally let my body just be what it is. Like I stopped doing all the things to my body that I was doing before that were really self harming. And so I processed a lot and I wrote a lot and I went to a lot of therapy and I came out on the other side of it. Like, I guess sort of externally unrecognizable, but I really feel like I've bucked any sort of fear about aging in that way.

• 8:34Alex Cooper?

  And it's beautiful to hear you say like, it's actually happened recently.

• 8:37Speaker 04

  Well, yeah, I also think like this is was sort of an accidental thing that happened, but like, I think so much of what I was doing to myself, which is a very broad umbrella, because like, I don't want to trivialize any of the things that I was going through, experiencing, doing to myself, but under that very broad umbrella of all of the things that I used to do that I now no longer do. Part of what made it really clear to me that I didn't want to torture myself anymore. And for me, it was torture. Like for me, it was torture. Anything aesthetic or anything to do with food or over exercising, everything in that genre of like shape shifting, I would call it for me,

• 9:22Speaker 04

  was really self harming because it wasn't for me. It wasn't to feel beautiful. It was in fact to to be to feel safe. Like it, I had it in my head that like if I was physically perfect, no one would harm me. Like in this really weird kind of juvenile way of like, maybe I'll be accepted, maybe I'll be loved, maybe the bad, bad things that used to happen won't happen. It was like this way of controlling the one thing I could control to hopefully create an environment where like bad things wouldn't happen. I don't know if that makes any sense, but I just, I came from such a crazy background

• 10:03Speaker 04

  and like litany of experiences that I was just looking for anything to grab on to that felt like this is my choice.

• 10:10Alex Cooper?

  Can we get into your background? Because I want to get into all of this. Like there's so many things that you're talking about that I think are unfortunately, but realistically, like very relatable for a lot of women who are going to be listening today. And so I think kind of having a little bit of your background and understanding where you came from, I think will also give more context to then these themes that we're going to talk about. Um, okay. Let's go all the way back to the beginning. Grew up on a small island in Washington. What was your town like? Paint the picture.

• 10:46Speaker 04

  Bainbridge Island. Shout out Bainbridge Island, a world that only exists to the people that live there.

• 10:51Alex Cooper?

  Like a big population, small?

• 10:53Speaker 04

  It's small. I mean, like 20,000.

• 10:56Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 10:56Speaker 04

  So like for an island, small, but for like a town, maybe medium. I don't know. I don't know. I've lost plot of the scale. But Bainbridge is

• 11:07Speaker 04

  Really idyllic. It's like you, so you're in Seattle, you land in Seattle. You take a ferry boat, twenty minute ferry boat ride, you can walk on or you can drive on. If it's like a hundred and eighty cars or something, someone's gonna have to back me up on that. She's like. Um, and it's super quaint, like it's very. There's like no crime, you know, they like opened up a weed store like ten years ago, like. If there's any crime, it like rocks the fucking, it's like ten years and then nothing, nothing happens after that.

• 11:39Alex Cooper?

  It's kind of like the things that you see on TV, like the small town, everyone knows everyone.

• 11:43Speaker 04

  It's very that. It's also like the businesses are named after the family that's been there for five generations and. They all like, I went to. School with the same last names that my sister and my mom and everybody, you know.

• 11:54Alex Cooper?

  Got it.

• 11:55Speaker 04

  It's like that.

• 11:55Alex Cooper?

  And what did you do for fun as a kid?

• 11:58Speaker 04

  Oh, God. Fucking nothing. I mean, like, no, because it's. No, because it's it's such a beautiful place, but it's like, you know, one of those places where like the kids start like smoking weed really early because they're just so bored. Like, it was like that.

• 12:11Alex Cooper?

  Was that you?

• 12:12Speaker 04

  No, it wasn't me. I mean, like, I was hanging out with those kids, but I was like scared.

• 12:17Alex Cooper?

  Classic.

• 12:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 12:18Alex Cooper?

  You're like pretending you're smoking, but you're like, oh, my God.

• 12:20Speaker 04

  I was like, I'm a singer. I was like going to musical theater being like. No, but I, I didn't, I didn't, um, but I was in with that, like I got, you know, you, I got a tattoo at fourteen, kind of, kind of town.

• 12:32Alex Cooper?

  Uh, the Capricorn tattoo?

• 12:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 12:34Alex Cooper?

  Um. Community theater. What? Did you like about being on stage? Like, were you confident, young girl, like, ready to go and, okay?

• 12:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, I was. I was one of those like, um. I think I was probably pretty annoying, like when I was younger, I was like, I was very confident, I was very friendly, I was very just. Personable, like I was very, wanted to talk to everyone, wanted to be friends. Um, very loud, like, I don't know, I grew up with parents who like were artists and so they were like. Whoever you want to be. You be her. And I was like, great, got it, like, written it down, got it. So I was very confident, I was very, um. For a while. And then I feel like middle school kind of like beats it out of you.

• 13:20Alex Cooper?

  Of course.

• 13:20Speaker 04

  Middle school on the other side, you're like, wait, I'm being perceived, people hate me?

• 13:24Alex Cooper?

  I think something that's really relatable of the middle school commentary is like, and it makes me sad for our younger selves is there's the version of us before, like you said, being perceived by your peers. And there's the version of you at home that just has this endless idea of who you can be in the world that you want to be in. And then you start to interact and life happens and horrible things happen. And then that starts to mold you, which is just life. And I know obviously something horrible happened when you were eight years old.

• 13:58Alex Cooper?

  Your best friend was murdered by her father, which is like saying that out loud. I'm like, don't even know how to communicate how sorry. And I can't even imagine how painful that time was and even still decades later, how painful that must be even to talk about it.

• 14:17Alex Cooper?

  Do you mind though, sharing like how you found out this news and what happened during that time in your life? Because eight years old is like, life is great. And then?

• 14:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was really, yeah, I guess it was like that. We, we had a very sort of like, uh, yeah, idyllic sort of foresty, um, childhood. Haley was her name. She, um, lived also on the island for the majority of our childhood. And, uh, we had met when we were two, like it was just one of those things where, you know, like they're like some little girls, they meet each other and they're like, oh, that's like, you just, yeah.

• 15:03Speaker 04

  And it's funny, I rarely talk about this, not because it's like, uh, it's a problem to talk about, but just like, it's so not the first thing that people usually ask me. But she, uh, her parents had gotten a divorce and it was really, um, messy. And I had stayed with her dad for like, quite a lot of the summer before this happened. And I think even at eight, I like, it was like a dark energy, right? Like he was a very angry man.

• 15:38Speaker 04

  And I was at home one day, sick from school. So it must've been like third grade.

• 15:47Speaker 04

  Um, and I, it was, we had like landlines and it was like that era where if you picked up a landline, like my parents were in their office, like, uh, in a different building, you know, nearby at home and I was at home and they, I think I had an incoming call for their office and I picked it up because I was just like a kid and I was just like listening in. Um, and it was actually our preschool principal who was tasked with making the call, Janice, um, who was an angel, an absolute angel, and that's where we met. Um, and she basically said like, this is going to be a really, really disturbing call. Um, Haley and Kelsey are

• 16:30Speaker 04

  gone. Steve is gone and he took the girls with him is what she said, like, just very quick. And I think my, it was my mom on the phone and I remember her like decompressing, not knowing how to handle it. And then I think they heard me like, express some sort of child noise, whatever that was, like a gasp. And then I, they came in and, and then we just like, didn't get out of bed for like two days because it was so impossible to process.

• 16:58Alex Cooper?

  And eight years old, like, why I wanted to ask you about that more is because I think

• 17:07Alex Cooper?

  that is so formative for everyone around you, but it's like, that's something that like stays in your body because I feel like at that young of an age, and I'm sure a lot of people can relate to trauma at young ages, not that exact trauma, but like, there's something as human beings where when it's that young, you probably don't talk about it that much at that young age. Cause like, what is mental health and how do you even speak about these things? So you internalize it in your body and then it sticks with you.

• 17:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 17:37Alex Cooper?

  Um, how do you think losing her kind of started to shift the way that you saw the world?

• 17:45Speaker 04

  That's a really good question. Um,

• 17:49Speaker 04

  I think, well, my parents tried to put me in therapy for a while, because I think even they knew, like, because it, even at the time, like, this was twenty-two years ago, so it's like, mental health wasn't, the internet wasn't what it was, my parents didn't really know, like, there was no therapy speak in the way that we all kind of can psychoanalyze each other and like pop psychology.

• 18:06Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 18:07Speaker 04

  Each other now, like, they really didn't know. Um, but they knew enough to put me in therapy. Like, I was very, very, very, very, very disturbed by, um, knowing someone for all that time and being like raised around them and then realizing that they are capable of doing something so harrowing. Um, and I think that that kind of like fissured my psychology, like, my brain and how I process things, like, kind of, like, I don't want to be dark, but like, kind of forever, like, I still have, uh, issues and, you know, there were more things that happened that sort of echoed that experience, um, but I still have experiences where I'm like,

• 18:47Speaker 04

  I'm grateful for the relationships that I have as long as I have them, I'm grateful for the good things as long as I have them, because truly at any moment, it can be just an entirely flipped script, black and white situation, um, which I think I have acceptance around because I've had so much practice at it, but I also think like, you know, it is something that I, I think I forget is, is playing, is running my brain so much, like, it's really the source of most of my anxiety.

• 19:19Alex Cooper?

  I know in the past, you, you kind of talked about how this death accelerated a darkness that was going on in your own home.

• 19:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 19:30Alex Cooper?

  Can you kind of explain what you meant by that?

• 19:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think, I don't actually know as an adult, like, how to rationalize the correlation between this loss and then sort of subsequently what happened with my family, um, but I think it was just, like, my mom could probably tell you better, but I think it was just sort of an invisible, um, chipping away at an already sort of shaky foundation, um, that was my parents' marriage, um, and I want to state from the beginning, like, my mother is, uh, my mother is totally okay with me speaking about this stuff, I would never speak out of turn, um, and I think my dad would be too, but.

• 20:16Speaker 04

  I think it was, my parents were not a love match. Like, my parents were not a love match. My dad was at least, at the very least, not straight. They got married because they got pregnant. And it was like, my dad came from a Catholic family. And they had love for each other. Like, I see home videos from when I was little or before I was born. And like, I think my dad truly loved my mom, just not as a husband and wife.

• 20:48Alex Cooper?

  Right, like romantic, yeah.

• 20:49Speaker 04

  Yeah, and I, I don't think he ever fully accepted that about himself.

• 20:59Speaker 04

  And so, they just had this sort of, like, they, they both wanted something from each other that the other person couldn't give, right? And, and I knew that there was something off.

• 21:12Alex Cooper?

  Like, your whole life?

• 21:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think I would say right around eight. I would say right around that time.

• 21:21Speaker 04

  It's funny, someone called me out once for being like, damn, so much shit happened to this girl when she was eight. And I was like, actually, yeah. That was kind of the year, banner year.

• 21:29Alex Cooper?

  That was the big year, the big eight for you. Some people, it's like 21 or 18, you're like eight.

• 21:33Speaker 04

  My frontal lobe developed at eight.

• 21:35Alex Cooper?

  Eight, try me.

• 21:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's true.

• 21:54Alex Cooper?

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• 24:38Alex Cooper?

  In terms of your childhood in your home, your dad struggled with depression and bipolar disorder. And

• 24:48Alex Cooper?

  That, that's a lot. That's a lot to, as a kid, handle. Um, and I'm sure you're sitting here today with a different perspective on it, had I met you 10 years ago, and then had I talked to you 15 years to 20 years, because I'm sure as you become an adult, you have a different perspective and you're able to process things differently. And empathy comes into play. Um, but when did you realize that he was struggling with these things? Like, did your family have a conversation about a diagnosis?

• 25:24Speaker 04

  Ah, you know, yeah, we did. Um, it was such a fucking blur. Um, but I knew,

• 25:35Speaker 04

  I knew that there was something. Cause like I said, I was a very precocious kid. Like I was not, there was never a time where I was sheltered. And then suddenly I was like, big new world. Like, I was at the adults-

• 25:47Alex Cooper?

  You were clued in.

• 25:48Speaker 04

  Table. Yeah. Um, yeah. In a big way. And not in a way that I regret either. Like in a way that I actually think is what I needed. Uh, I think the thing that I would say is what I was the most aware of was that my dad had really intense emotional swings. Like I knew that. I knew how to be prepared for that. Um, I knew how to hopefully work around that, which also then like, obviously splinters off. And so like, how your brain works as you get older and affects who you date and what you accept. Um, but that's not like, I, I know this might be controversial. This is just my personal opinion about my, my father, but I truly don't think it was his fault.

• 26:30Speaker 04

  I think he was so traumatized and so repressed. And he had a really, really, really, really, really rough childhood and life and all of that. Um, and I think that he was doing his best with the tools that he had and he didn't have enough tools. And, you know, there were times when like, if something completely divorced from something that I did, or my, my sister or my mom did happen, but it was like, we were the person in the room. Not really my sister. My sister and him were-

• 27:02Speaker 04

  Were were better about this because she was just less combative. Um, and I think she would also be okay with me saying that like she was much more like, um, she had learned to avoid his triggers in like a different way. Um, whereas I would try to avoid them and then if they happened, I would sort of like fight back. Cause I was like, you, I don't care that I'm 12. You cannot talk to me like that. Which was not something that works well. Not something that earned me gold stars in the family household. Um, my mom, I think loved it. My mom was always like, go baby, but my dad really didn't like being challenged. Um, and so we had a bit of a tenuous relationship as I got older. Um, but I, you know, I would come home and something would happen and suddenly like all the VHS would be in the trash.

• 27:45Speaker 04

  He'd be like, you know, more nice things. You cannot have this like you're being punished for this thing. And it was like, for what? You know, it was just something. It was something that was happening in his brain purely for him that like he had either

• 28:01Speaker 04

  like mislabeled, like something that I had done wrong. That was like, I think I've told this story before, but like I had this Barbie bubble gum toothpaste. And one day he came home from the office like really stressed and he used it in this kind of like aggressive joking way. Like I'm going to take the toothpaste and I like a eight year old was like, no, that's my tooth, like ew, germs, whatever I said.

• 28:25Speaker 04

  And he heard that as like, he was like, I pay for everything in this house. You know, like in this sort of like, you don't know how good you have it. And then for like a week,

• 28:37Speaker 04

  like wouldn't talk to me, wouldn't look at me, wouldn't tell me he loved me, like just really,

• 28:45Speaker 04

  just really strange, like things that at the time I didn't recognize for what they were because now I, it was strange then. It's not strange now, um, because I understand it more now.

• 28:54Alex Cooper?

  You talking about kind of being the defiant sibling of the one that I think that's also very relatable of, um,

• 29:04Alex Cooper?

  Having different childhood experiences with your parents than your siblings is weird because then when you get older, you're like, that's not how it happened. And they're like, no, that's not how

• 29:13Speaker 04

  Or like mom and dad are like this, or this happened. And it's like, it's not even events. It's like, that's not who I grew up with.

• 29:19Alex Cooper?

  Oh, how nice for you. Because that wasn't my reality.

• 29:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 29:23Alex Cooper?

  Um, when you would be, you know, going back and challenging your father and be like, no, I'm going to stand up for myself. As at such a young age, I'm assuming though, when it got heightened to some capacity, I don't know, I don't want to speak for you, but like, there could be moments you had to dissociate or go into survival mode. Because you're like, oh, my God, this is, okay, the face you're like, girl, little dino.

• 29:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 29:47Alex Cooper?

  What behaviors did you, or you can now look back and recognize you started to lean into in these really heightened traumatic moments with your father?

• 29:59Speaker 04

  I actually just wrote a song about this, um, called Silver Screen Baby. And about sort of my desperation to escape to Hollywood.

• 30:15Speaker 04

  I had this like very, like bullish, sort of headstrong belief that like, my home was not ever going to feel like home in the way that it felt like to the other girls that I went to school with. Because I'm going to be honest, just like to a slight delineation, but like, my home was also magical. Like, that's the weird thing about living with a parent who deals with, you know, um, struggles with their mental health. It's, some days are really beautiful and some days, some days are weeks, some days are long stretches of time and you're like, oh, and then you settle and then it's like, you know, upended again. Um, so I don't

• 30:56Speaker 04

  ever want to make it seem like, you know, my childhood was, um, only one thing. It was also exceptionally beautiful and special. And my parents were great parents in a lot of ways. Like, my mom has always been the perfect mom. Like, I'm so big on saying that. Um, she just got saddled with a very difficult. Um, like workload and situation, which wasn't really her uh design. But but my dad also was exceptional. Like, there's a reason that I have spoken so highly of him and written so many songs about him and and why I care so much about mental health is because it is a

• 31:40Speaker 04

  it's not in your character, it's an affliction. It's it's something that there's a reason why we say people struggle with mental health.

• 31:48Alex Cooper?

  It's chemical, yeah.

• 31:49Speaker 04

  It's chemical, it's not a fucking choice. And so like, I, you know, I I look at my dad as the as the parts of him that were so, so magical, right? Like, the parts of him that

• 32:01Speaker 04

  sorry, I fully came in today and I was like, I'm not gonna sorry, sorry. I um

• 32:12Speaker 04

  so much of who I am is my mom, right? So much of who I am. But so much of who I am and who I grow into now. I look back and I retroactively realize was my dad and

• 32:31Speaker 04

  sorry.

• 32:33Speaker 04

  It's like the the parts of him that I never got to meet as I got older. I get to meet them as I become them. Which has been like a really profound experience. You know, because I remember all these things about him. And as I get older.

• 32:53Speaker 04

  I see them coming out in my personality like on accident and I'm like, oh, my God, like, it feels like getting a sort of a piece of closure is is kind of like following a roadmap that that um has been leading me towards really feeling like his daughter, you know, because I fucking love him. He's so special and and it's such a shame to never get to know your parent fully.

• 33:21Alex Cooper?

  I think um. What I think a lot of people are going to sit here and also cry with you as I'm crying, because I have someone so close to me that has a very similar experience to you. And with a father and losing a father to bipolar and it's so complicated. And as we talk about it all the time and our personal moments and what I'm hearing from you, which is so helpful because it's like, oh, this is a relatable feeling where it's like, the highs are so high and that doesn't mean that they're not highs. Like, yeah, and with a parent, you need to hold on to those beautiful moments. Like, we can sit here and of course, it's like, we're talking about the really hard moments

• 34:04Alex Cooper?

  in your childhood with this because we're not saying your father intentionally hurt you. But as a human being sitting in front of me, we would be remiss to not acknowledge that so much, yeah, there was hurt, not intentional, but it did form then who you are as a human being or your personality or your behaviors or what then you went on to accept. And so you, it's like, we have to talk that through also to acknowledge who, how strong you are. But then, right, there's the moments where you now can look back at your father and be like, but then there was this creative side to him and there was this like brilliance to him. And so bipolar is really fucking confusing to the people around people like

• 34:47Alex Cooper?

  that because you see two different sides to someone and one day you'll wake up and think about the good side and then the other day you think about the bad side. And that's really confusing because most people, you're like, this is who this person is.

• 35:00Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 35:00Alex Cooper?

  And you can kind of be like, in one sentence, but with this, you're like, there was a lot going on.

• 35:07Speaker 04

  I also will very, very earnestly say that the patterning that my brain found around, like,

• 35:16Speaker 04

  There's the person who does the thing and then the person who's there for cleanup.

• 35:20Alex Cooper?

  Mm hmm.

• 35:21Speaker 04

  That really fucked me up in my dating life.

• 35:24Alex Cooper?

  I cannot imagine because you're learning at a young age because it's your blood and your father to put up with and you're innately seeking love from your parent.

• 35:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 35:36Alex Cooper?

  Who you're a half of, but then when you then are so used to something.

• 35:43Speaker 04

  More also like so used to, yes, but also like the thing that I could not let go of in my twenties, which is another thing that we are leaving behind. The list is long.

• 35:57Speaker 04

  One thing that I fucking couldn't let go of, I couldn't conceptualize was if my dad could do those things, but I know he loved me.

• 36:07Speaker 04

  Can I believe someone who can do those things to me in a romantic relationship who then tells me they love me? And they almost went hand in hand for me for a long time. Um, and you know, sometimes I look back and I blame myself for staying in those relationships. Sometimes I look back with great empathy and I say, I couldn't have known better. Sometimes my empathy even extends as far enough to say that they couldn't have known better, but then I dial it back.

• 36:33Alex Cooper?

  And then you're like, wait, no.

• 36:34Speaker 04

  You definitely could have known better.

• 36:35Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 36:36Speaker 04

  Yeah. Um, I found myself in a lot of situations that accidentally mirrored.

• 36:41Alex Cooper?

  Your father and your relationship.

• 36:43Speaker 04

  Completely.

• 36:43Alex Cooper?

  Did you ever have a moment in a relationship where

• 36:49Alex Cooper?

  it got to those moments of the most heightened where it was like scary where you then look at yourself and you're like, wait, how, how am I putting myself in danger?

• 36:59Speaker 04

  Oh yeah, no, I'm also, I wrote a song about that also recently.

• 37:05Speaker 04

  Which I won't share right now because it's one of my favorite songs I've ever written and I just want to like, keep it for the album, but.

• 37:14Speaker 04

  That was actually one of the reasons that the, one of my relationships that I was in ended was it, it came to a very, very, not physical, not physical, but a very, very, very, very scary moment that I was like, I'm gonna document this. Like, I'm calling my mom right now. I'm calling all my friends, like, and it was, but it was something, it took, it took me, it took me up until that to be like, okay, wait, this isn't love.

• 37:46Alex Cooper?

  It's your threshold, though, Dub.

• 37:47Speaker 04

  My threshold was high, girl. My threshold was crazy high. And I also, I also, it's such a weird thing to try to explain to people who have never been in this position. I loved that person. I was in love. I was, I was in love. And, and it's hard to conceptualize, like, people who are like, but how can you love someone who does those things to you? And yes, I would say now, from a healed and healthy perspective, I would agree. I would, I would also find it inconceivable.

• 38:15Alex Cooper?

  But I was gonna say, but, but I think what we also have to have empathy with ourselves and other humans, when everyone's like, why did you stay and why did you do this? How would you know any better of what you deserve when within your own home, there was a pattern and there was a procedure essentially that you all knew when this was happening, this is how you fall in line, and then he'll apologize, and then we go back to normal, and then we try to pretend it didn't happen, and then another moment happens, and then we get through it. And so it was like this cyclical situation that you were going through that, like, that was your life, and you just survived and lived. So that when you get into a romantic relationship, how would it be if someone had boundaries and treated you right and was respectful? You'd be like, when is the other shoe gonna drop?

• 38:56Alex Cooper?

  Because you had never seen anything like that in your life. And so then it takes you actually learning and, and experiencing the world and talking to therapists and licensed people who actually are sitting there with you to be like, let me walk you through, this is not healthy, this is trauma.

• 39:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, and also like huge bouts of alone time. Like, I, I had like a two-year Dating romantic sabbatical. I was like, or sabbatical? That's where we take time off.

• 39:25Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, hiatus, yeah.

• 39:26Speaker 04

  Hiatus, yeah. Sorry.

• 39:28Alex Cooper?

  Goodbye, man.

• 39:28Speaker 04

  Like, not sabbatical. Um, I just disappeared off the face of the planet. Like, there was a while where I was like, whoa, I'm broken. Like, I'm a broken, I, I don't want anyone. Cause I was just so disturbed, like, I was so disturbed by the places I had, like, gotten myself to and, and what I had, who I had chosen to love and who I loved. Like, that's the thing, is that it's complicated, right?

• 39:53Alex Cooper?

  And when you're speaking about these romantic relationships, I, and how you had said, you know, you have such empathy for understandably your mother, who you watched in this relationship. I think about how hard it is to leave something that is...

• 40:10Speaker 04

  Especially when you have kids.

• 40:11Alex Cooper?

  Yes. Um, and I know I'd, I'd read in an article, you had said somewhere that before your parents got divorced, things were getting very real and very adult at home. What was the breaking point for your mom to get your family out?

• 40:31Speaker 04

  That's a really good question. Um, I think that, I think that my sister went away to college and it was just me at home, which, like, left them with 50% less distraction, you know? Um, I was really depressed. Like, you know how sometimes there are those kids that go through, like, puberty and they're like, you're like, oh, God. Yeah, that was me. I was like, I didn't want to be awake during the night, so I would, like, stay up all night. I was being homeschooled. I would, like, just watch movies and, harkening back to the Hollywood thing, I was like, I, I'm not supposed to be here. I'm supposed to be among people who are gonna understand me. And, like, in my mind, my, like, 12-year-old mind, I was like, that's Hollywood.

• 41:16Speaker 04

  Because these people, clearly, they have an understanding for emotion. And I felt so close to these people in these movies who are making this music and it all was being done in this one big amorphous town. They're all there? Like, I was like, great, fucking get me there. Like, I was like, that's where I'm supposed to be, um, as a very childlike, you know, understanding of, of the industry. Um, and so I was doing this thing where I was not going to school and I was staying up all night to watch movies and because I was terrified of... The nighttime, because I was just like traumatized. I had a hairpin trigger for any things that go bump in the night and the house was in the woods and I was like,

• 41:58Speaker 04

  I don't know, I'd always been a really anxious kid, I think ever since Haley died. I was just like, very easily shaken. And my parents were just kind of alone in the house and they ran a business together and

• 42:12Speaker 04

  I don't know, there was, there was clearly some form of adultery happening, like where both of them were just kind of like, done, done, done, done, done. And so it was, it was just time. Like, I don't know how they could have carried on, honestly.

• 42:27Alex Cooper?

  And did you, were you sitting in that house and feeling them both kind of doing their own things?

• 42:34Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah. No, yeah. They were just a terrible, terrible match. Just like a decade of them slowly burning out.

• 42:41Alex Cooper?

  So you eventually get your dream. You are sitting there, you're watching these movies, you're dreaming about going to this land where everyone is and everyone's getting to act and perform and do all these things and you've watched this growing up for so long and then your parents get divorced and your mom and you go to LA. And I remember reading that you were going for auditions and Disney said that you came off as dark and off putting.

• 43:10Speaker 04

  That's still so funny.

• 43:11Alex Cooper?

  They're like, girl, you are too dark for Disney.

• 43:13Speaker 04

  They were like, please stop.

• 43:15Alex Cooper?

  Smile. Yeah, no, they literally asked my agents to stop saying that.

• 43:18Speaker 04

  Oh, my god. They were like, she's, it's never gonna be her, like, give it up.

• 43:23Speaker 04

  But we came out and I was getting sent out on all this Disney stuff and I remember saying to my mom, like, I don't want to do Disney because I I felt like it was gonna be a lifelong commitment. I felt like I had grown up watching the girls try so hard to like break away from it and be respected. And I knew even when I was like thirteen or fourteen, I was like, This is gonna be hard. Like, this is gonna be something really hard. That sounds so ungrateful, but like this was something before I got the opportunity that I was like, I don't know. I don't know. Cause I really wanted to do um, movies and TV shows that felt like more adult, but the for that age bracket, like there were like, you know, you play the daughter of so and so or like-

• 44:06Alex Cooper?

  But it also makes sense, and I get what you're saying. You're grateful, but you're also, I, this whole conversation, we've been talking about how you've always felt older than your age and then-

• 44:14Speaker 04

  That was the other thing.

• 44:15Alex Cooper?

  Right, so you're like, Disney, like, I, I've, I've been watching these movies and I'm seeing myself in this older light and then to do Disney, and again, Disney was established at this point, right? Like, remembering when Hannah Montana came out, like, that was, that was new. Everyone didn't know that this could become this whole format. Hillary Duff, right? When you came into it, you had these people that you could look at and there was a blueprint essentially laid out of like, now we're watching these people try to grow out of this persona and it's very different.

• 44:47Speaker 04

  There was a whole stigma around it. There was a whole like, like, people would write articles about like, so and so gets a tattoo to be a bad girl. And I was like, I was like, I'm already, I already have a tattoo. Like, I was like, I was like, fuck, fuck, fuck, like, this is never gonna work.

• 44:59Alex Cooper?

  I've been around the weed smoking. I have the tattoo.

• 45:02Speaker 04

  I was like, yes, I was like, there's no part of me that is like sheltered, you know? And I also was like, I didn't think I could be funny at the time. Like, I, I perceived myself already as like too dark and too whatever for Disney. Everybody, my life had been insane. Like, I was just not, I was not gonna be the girl who came off like fresh faced off the, the, you know, the, uh, the, what is that? Like, the the Greyhound bus, being like, here I am and that. Like, it was not a charming story. I was like, here because I was deeply disturbed, yeah. I was already deeply disturbed. And so I was like, they're never gonna pick me, like, fucking.

• 45:34Alex Cooper?

  Okay, they did. So Liv and Maddie, then you get the show.

• 45:38Speaker 04

  Yeah. They called me and they were like, nine months after we shot the original pilot, they were like, hey, your show's getting picked up. I'll see you on Monday. Like, but by the way, you're playing twins. I'm like, cool. Oh, no, I was like, I was on the 405 or something. My, and it was like, they called from like an anonymous number, which they always do. Like, they called from this like, no caller ID.

• 45:57Alex Cooper?

  Oh, my god.

• 45:57Speaker 04

  Like, the Disney Pentagon.

• 45:59Alex Cooper?

  Literally?

• 46:00Speaker 04

  Yeah. And it was like my mom's cellphone at the time and it was like, no caller ID. And we were on the 405 and we were like, Oh my god, you know, cause we were like, we were like, we had, my mom was melting down gold to pay for our rent. Like based on her own personal jewelry, cause she was a jeweler, not cause she had loads of gold.

• 46:15Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 46:16Speaker 04

  Um, and so we were like, oh my god, it was like the call that changed our lives. Yeah. Um, and I took it and it was just such a beautiful experience, like to hearken back to the thing where I sound like massively ungrateful. Disney, Disney was some of the most fun and joyful times of my life. Like I, I had a great fucking time on Disney Channel, which is why like you'll see me talking about it still, cause I'm not. I know what it was. I know that that's not who I am. I know that it was like a thing that I did when I was a kid and when I was a teenager. And it's something that like I look back on and I appreciate it for what it is. Like we recently rewatched all the Descendants films and I was like,

• 46:59Speaker 04

  these fucking movies are so insane. That like, I can't believe they got away with it. Like like CGI dragons and like, it's like, it's like one long acid trip for kids. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I was, I'm behind it. I love it.

• 47:14Alex Cooper?

  Beautiful though, that you're able to enjoy it because again, I think maybe because of, I don't know why, like maybe like you said, like seeing people in the comments and still remembering it. I think it's okay that like, it's like, that was a version of you. And I think sometimes understandably, we tried to grow up quickly and we're like, I don't want to be my younger version of myself. But how beautiful that that was such a huge part in your life. And don't forget, like you just said, that you and your mom on the four oh five and you needed this job. And it changed your life.

• 47:43Speaker 04

  Oh my god, Disney really like changed my whole fucking life. And they supported me so much too. Like that was really the thing. I had great relationships in there. Like, you know, there was the, there was the thing that like is very expected, which is just like, I came into Disney, yes, with a tattoo at fourteen and I was, you know, swearing as much as I swear now and I was a full adult and I had all this trauma, like full adult, but like, you know, for that age, yes. Um, and I had all this trauma and basically they were like, in like the friendliest way possible, they were like, okay, so, um, we love you, you're not relatable. And I was like, right? That's fair and I believe you. And so like they did everything they could to make me more relatable. Like, God bless them. They

• 48:28Speaker 04

  were like, they were like, uh, so we want to make like a music video and have your best friend in it. But like, you know, they wanted to make me more like, I guess, age appropriate. Um, and so they did that. Um, they were always very upfront about communicating about that. And I was very team player with like, when I would do interviews, you know, I would give the answer that you would give if you were talking to kids. Like, that's really the thing that I think a lot of people get confused about with like who I was when I was on Disney and who I am now. They're like, there's a crazy contrast. And it's like, but no, because I walked into this contract being like, I'm on a children's network.

• 49:02Alex Cooper?

  Right. You knew the formula.

• 49:03Speaker 04

  If I went on and did an interview for Tiger Beat or Teen Vogue and I was talking like how I do now where I'm like, I fucking blah, blah, blah, blah, like, that would be stupid and also inappropriate. Like, I'm thirty now. I can do it now. I could do it when I was twenty-five and forward. It's like, I, I am no longer on a children's network, even though they're syndicated forever.

• 49:24Alex Cooper?

  Of course, of course.

• 49:24Speaker 04

  But it's like, I think people think that it was like this crazy switch up when in fact, I was just like a good employee.

• 49:30Alex Cooper?

  This is the job.

• 49:31Speaker 04

  This is the job. Yeah. It was never a lie. I'm just like, not gonna swear or be naked. Or like, I remember the first time I posted a picture in a bikini and like the internet lost their minds. And I was like, okay, not yet.

• 49:44Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. They're like, never mind.

• 49:45Speaker 04

  We're not there yet.

• 49:46Alex Cooper?

  See you in four years.

• 49:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, really.

• 49:47Alex Cooper?

  We'll try again next year.

• 49:48Speaker 04

  Really? Which is why like, it's funny because I still sometimes get asked about like, how did you break out of your Disney role? Or there she goes, trying to break out of her Disney role. And I'm like, I literally.

• 50:00Alex Cooper?

  I actually, I think I try super, um, I wouldn't say super hard, but like I, I have no interest in bursting any sort of Disney bubble because I truly believe like that's over there. And those shows and movies live on forever. That's not me and I'm over here doing this and they don't really cross for me. And so I don't have any like desire to burst any balloons or illusions. I also think like there, I see so much like someone will bring up like a song that I've released and they'll be like, that stuff Cameron and I'm like, great. So this, these people are over here knowing this and these people are over here knowing this and. That's okay. You've grown and you've evolved and you've changed. You have the version of me that, that you want. Absolutely. That's for you.

• 51:00Alex Cooper?

  Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Airbnb. As you guys know, I have basically been working double time throughout this pregnancy to bank episodes for the month that I will be on maternity leave. And a few weeks ago, it all just kind of hit me. I was like, wait, wait, wait, where did summer go? And I was talking about this with Matt and he ended up surprising me with a little staycation. He booked this beautiful home on Airbnb in Malibu so that we could pretend like it was summer while it's still warm here in LA. The weather was perfect. The house was right on the beach, which was so relaxing and amazing. It also had just such a gorgeous kitchen. We stayed in, we cooked dinner together.

• 51:41Alex Cooper?

  And you know, daddy, getting my cooking skills, they have, they have gotten better. They've gotten a little bit better through pregnancy, but it was really just so nice to unplug and spend that time together before the baby comes and we move into this completely new chapter of our life. So whether you're planning a cozy weekend away, or you're just looking for an excuse to unplug for a few days, October is the perfect time to get out of town. Booking a home on Airbnb makes the trip feel even more special because. Everyone has room to actually spend time together. Whether you're coming back after a long day out or you're also just cooking dinner. Airbnb makes settling in even easier because you can order groceries for your trip and have all of the snacks and essentials delivered after you arrive.

• 52:26Alex Cooper?

  My favorite fall trips always have one thing in common, an amazing place to stay. That's why I always look at Airbnb first. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Southern New Hampshire University. Daddy gang, let's get real, okay? We like to make our own rules. Southern New Hampshire University gets it. They let you learn what you want with over 200 career-focused programs. Where you want with 100% online courses and how you want with no set class times. Basically, you get to call the shots from day one. Visit SNHU.edu/callherdaddy to learn more. This is a paid ad by BetterHelp. So anytime that I am finding myself having a habit that I just cannot kick, I'm like,

• 53:10Alex Cooper?

  okay, I need to talk about this in therapy. Listen, guys, everyone has habits, mindsets, or patterns that don't serve them. But recognizing what they are and learning how to let them go can be so important. It's literally the first step towards creating meaningful change. And therapy with BetterHelp, one of the leading online therapy platforms, can be a space to explore where those patterns come from and develop healthier habits and mindsets for a more fulfilling life. With over 30,000 therapists worldwide, BetterHelp has served millions of people globally. BetterHelp makes it easier to fit therapy into your routine with flexible ways to connect that work for different schedules and lifestyles. Plus, BetterHelp therapists have at least three years and 1,000 hours on-hand experience

• 53:54Alex Cooper?

  and hold all required education, training, and certifications. You can meet with a range of professionals from marriage and family therapists to social workers and counselors. So Daddy Gang, if you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/daddy. That's betterh-e-l-p.com/daddy. When you were on Disney, obviously moving to Los Angeles, kind of also circling back to the conversation of you move away from home, did you have a relationship with your father when you moved to LA and got this role?

• 54:34Speaker 04

  That is a very good question and a very complicated answer.

• 54:40Speaker 04

  My dad and I, so my parents had split, but not, not for very long before we moved to LA. And we, my mom lived in like the tiniest apartment on Bainbridge and my dad still lived in our family home. And I wanted to go live with my mom in the new apartment because it was like really close to the ferry boat. And if I'm being honest, I could sneak out of the house and go see my friends. Like I was like sliding screen door. It was, it was in like our little like town area, you know?

• 55:14Speaker 04

  So I was staying there a lot. And I think probably retroactively, like my dad felt like I was taking my mom's side. But then my sister kind of came home from college because she was like, I don't love this college. I want to be home. And there was a day where I was in my room at the family home asleep. And I was thirteen, twelve, thirteen, like right before I moved to LA.

• 55:43Speaker 04

  And my dad wanted me and my sister to like come eat breakfast in bed and listen to the radio or watch a movie or something. Which like we were a very cuddly household, like it was very like come down in your PJs and be half asleep. And like I made eggs kind of thing. And he was like, hello, come down.

• 56:02Speaker 04

  And I was like, no, I'm sleeping, you know, whatever twelve year old answer you give. And he was like, you can be sleepy, just like come down and be sleepy down here. Cause you're never here. So like come be with us. And I was like, okay. And I came downstairs and I got in the huge bed and I went to sleep. And I got woken up because he had thrown me out of the bed.

• 56:23Speaker 04

  And he was starting on some monologue about like, you're so ungrateful. You, you don't even want to be here. You are trying everything you can to get away from me, like get out, get out of the house.

• 56:40Speaker 04

  And I think that was a really important moment for me because I had finally had it confirmed for me that I was not the thing that was making my dad upset. Because when I was younger, I really, really blamed myself for any time my dad would get upset. It was my fault. That's what you naturally think as a kid. And in this situation, I was asleep, right?

• 57:10Speaker 04

  I don't think I've ever told this story, actually. I don't know. I can't remember. But I, it sounds like nothing, but for me, it was a really big deal because it, I was woken up literally by like hitting the floor and hearing all these things. And so my brain was able to like through adrenaline process like,

• 57:29Speaker 04

  I couldn't have done anything to cause this because I was asleep. He told me I could come down and be asleep. This is all happening in his brain. And so I, rather than leaving, I went upstairs to my room. I packed a little stupid bag of like any suitcase that I had. And I was like, whatever 12 year old language I had that was the equivalent of like, actually, fuck you. And I went downstairs and I called my mom on my like $20 flip phone that I had because I went to theater camp and I had to like be, I had to call them. I didn't have, you know. But I called her and I was out sitting on my suitcase and my dad came out and was like, wait, no, sorry, sorry. And I was like, no, absolutely not. Like, I'm

• 58:12Speaker 04

  cool on this. I'm good on this. I'm not going to be talked to like that. I, I think I remember saying something to him that like, I wish I didn't say, but was like,

• 58:23Speaker 04

  you know, like we're blood, we're family, but like, I didn't choose to love you and like I choose to separate from you. Because this is not healthy for me. You don't do it to mom. You don't do it to Claire. And clearly, I'm not doing anything to cause it. So like, I'm not going to be your outlet.

• 58:43Speaker 04

  And so I went to go live with my mom. And then when we finally, I finally convinced her to move to LA, like the crazy, you know, 12, 13 that I was. I was like, you're not going to start over again. Like you just got divorced. Like, you know, there's so many more job opportunities in LA. I was making shit up, right? I was like, please.

• 59:05Speaker 04

  You know, we said goodbye. We were like, we're just gonna do this for six months and then we're gonna come back. Like, my dad was super concerned about, he was like, I'm really scared Hollywood's gonna chew you up and spit you out, like whatever idiom he used. And I was like, no, dad, I'm gonna be fine.

• 59:20Speaker 04

  And then I started booking things and my dad came out to LA to visit. Because he had some, like a trade show to do because they were wholesalers. And so he brought like all of his stuff out. And he stayed on our floor because again, not really making any money. And he stayed on like a blow up mattress and I remember, I think I have spoken about this, but I came out to be like, like snuggle him and say goodnight.

• 59:53Speaker 04

  And he like rolled over and turned his back and was like, goodnight, Chloe. Like I, I think you should go to bed. And I was like,

• 1:00:02Speaker 04

  something bad's going on there, but like, I genuinely, I thought it was my fault. Like I genuinely just thought I had upset him by moving to LA. Like I didn't know what was happening or that he was like, purposefully distancing himself in that way.

• 1:00:18Speaker 04

  So I went to bed and I tried my very best to like,

• 1:00:24Speaker 04

  spend extra time with him and like lots of hugs, lots of kisses, lots of like, you okay, like kind of stuff and

• 1:00:32Speaker 04

  and then he went back to Washington and it couldn't have been that many months after that that we got the call that he had, yeah, taken his life.

• 1:00:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, so it was a bit of a, like a blurry,

• 1:00:49Speaker 04

  weird time, to say the least.

• 1:00:52Alex Cooper?

  I'm so sorry because even hearing from the bed incident to then you trying to connect with your father, like there was so much clearly between the two of you, how you're describing it never really happened to your mom and your sister where you really were putting out bids for connection with him. And in moments he would take it, in moments he wasn't capable, right, of taking it because of where he was at mentally. You were always in the same place mentally. So you were always waiting and it kind of was always on his timeline and it was

• 1:01:28Speaker 04

  That's true.

• 1:01:29Alex Cooper?

  Right?

• 1:01:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, I've never thought about it like that.

• 1:01:30Alex Cooper?

  You were there, always waiting for your dad and sometimes he would show up. Oh my, I'm gonna cry now. And sometimes he wouldn't. And so to have that last moment with him where you really tried and then to get that call, I

• 1:01:46Alex Cooper?

  I can't even imagine who, who, did you get the call or did your mom, like, how did you handle that?

• 1:01:51Speaker 04

  Um, thank you for that, by the way, because I actually very rarely have people be able to tell me something new that I haven't thought about. So that's really like, really helps me put it into perspective. Thank you. Um, because that's so the feeling, right? And it's like, it's actually really hard to articulate that. Um, so thank you.

• 1:02:10Alex Cooper?

  Um, you were the constant.

• 1:02:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:02:13Alex Cooper?

  Which is exhausting.

• 1:02:15Speaker 04

  Yeah. And I think like you, you know, that's something that I really like, I'm really happy that I grew out of, um, but it still shows up for me thematically. So like you kind of synthesizing that for me so perfectly is going to help me be able to tackle that. Is like not always feeling like it's my job to be the constant. Um, yeah. It's a good one. Like the constant.

• 1:02:39Alex Cooper?

  The constant.

• 1:02:39Speaker 04

  Twenty twenty six.

• 1:02:41Alex Cooper?

  Stop being the constant.

• 1:02:44Speaker 04

  Be inconsistent. No.

• 1:02:46Alex Cooper?

  Give them nothing.

• 1:02:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you be the fucking constant. Yeah, I don't know how to do that. Um, no, but basic shit. Yeah, dude.

• 1:02:55Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, shit.

• 1:02:55Speaker 04

  Bring it back. Shit. Um, we found out in, in a really weird kind of layered way because, um,

• 1:03:03Speaker 04

  again, tight knit community, there was a woman who was like a kind of a, like a linchpin, like a, like a sort of a connection between, um, my mom and my dad, who knew the whole family. And she had messaged me on Facebook, like that's how long ago this was. And she was like, she'd never messaged me before, right? Um, and she goes, hey, is your mom around? And I was like,

• 1:03:33Speaker 04

  stomach sink. And I just knew. I can't tell you why I knew, um, but it was not a normal

• 1:03:45Speaker 04

  interaction. She had no reason to be talking to me. I was, however, I was fifteen, you know, um, at this point. And

• 1:03:55Speaker 04

  When I I responded like, no, but she's gonna be home soon. And she said, okay. And then it was like typing went away, typing went away. And she was like, uh, please tell her to reach out to her brother. Or something like that, like, please tell her to. It wasn't called her that person. It was like someone in the family. And my my childhood best friend at the time, my other childhood best friend Carla was living with me. And we were like, watching cartoons. And I was like, oh, my God, I'm gonna remember this moment forever as the moment that my dad died and we were in my bed laughing, watching

• 1:04:31Speaker 04

  cartoons. Um, and my mom came home and she talked to her brother, um, and she put him on speaker.

• 1:04:45Speaker 04

  And he was really breathless and like, sounded like, you know, he was running, but I'm sure he was just like having a panic attack. And he was like, um, I just went to the house. Um, I can't even remember what he said before he said the last bit, but Phil is no longer with us.

• 1:05:07Speaker 04

  And

• 1:05:10Speaker 04

  I

• 1:05:13Speaker 04

  I had a panic attack, like, I don't know, like, I I had a panic attack because I

• 1:05:19Speaker 04

  it's the most out of control feeling you can have is like the phone call.

• 1:05:26Speaker 04

  And actually, all three of my big losses have come via phone call, you know, like, which I guess is pretty standard because like, what's you're gonna have it happen in front of you. It's a different thing. Um, but I have like, uh, yeah, major phone anxiety, I think, because of stuff like this, um, not to like, get off topic, but I, it's such an alien thing to learn about something so like, there's a before this, and then there's an after this over the phone. And like, what the fuck is he gonna tell us? Like, what? How is he gonna phrase that in a way that like, he can get through? And then my mom having to like, look to me and then my best friend who's there living with us, looking to me and I'm looking at them and like,

• 1:06:11Speaker 04

  I I think I ran out of the room. I think I like, I couldn't breathe, like, the brain just breaks. Like, that's really the thing they don't tell you about trauma. And actually,

• 1:06:22Speaker 04

  Like, I think that's part of, um, like, people, people, when they watch movies, I think they get so accustomed to like, oh, when someone dies, you're like, oh, my God, they pass. You go into this like animal mode, like you, you are fight, flight, or freeze. You feel like you're gonna vomit your soul. Like, I don't know how else to describe it. It's, it's like this horrible, inexpressible,

• 1:06:48Speaker 04

  fiery, painful, knife-like thing. And you're, all you're trying to do is like purge it, purge it, purge it, and it's impossible to purge.

• 1:06:57Alex Cooper?

  I, um, I think that feeling is, again, like, something a lot of people are gonna relate to, because I think, like, yes, death is inevitable, but you've experienced such sudden and unexpected loss that I'm not saying one or the other is easier. It's just when something happens so unexpected, like, there is this shock and grief that are warped and wrapped together.

• 1:07:25Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:07:25Alex Cooper?

  And not having time to say goodbye and, and

• 1:07:28Speaker 04

  My God, the worst.

• 1:07:29Alex Cooper?

  Oh, like, you're, you're riddled with, like, so many emotions that you don't even know which one to tap into. So then you're just like, you just, you're just there. You're just there and you're existing and it's a horrible feeling. In the days and, and weeks,

• 1:07:46Alex Cooper?

  after you got this news, what do you think for you is the hardest thing to wrap your head around?

• 1:07:53Speaker 04

  Um, honestly, the way it happened, like,

• 1:08:01Speaker 04

  because he took his own life and, um, I, I wanted, like, I kept imagining, because no one would tell me how he did it. Like, I know that's really morbid, but I, I think I wanted to know, I needed to know, and

• 1:08:15Speaker 04

  And then it was worse when I knew and and they were right, but like I wouldn't, I would have, I was torturing myself, like trying to imagine and like, I think honestly,

• 1:08:26Speaker 04

  and I'm gonna honestly try to stop crying because it's like, it's a lot, um, but, but I think honestly, like the thing that still plagues me, like the thing that I'm still like, because I can mostly, for the most part, talk about my life with a sort of a distance at this point, like I can be like, this is what happened, this is how old I was, this is how I processed it. This is the good things that came out of it. This is how it evolved me in this way. This is what I can be grateful for, whatever, like I have enough distance. And also the body and the brain just shut down. Like, I don't know if anybody who's listening to this can attest or relate to the fact that like, the body does not want to process everything at once. And so sometimes like your emotions, the valves just don't feel like they're on. So like, I can talk about this like it happened to someone else.

• 1:09:13Speaker 04

  But sometimes the thing that like, like I really wake up in the middle of the night, like a, like catch my breath kind of thing is, is just imagining like his final moments alone, where he was like, do I do it? Or not, you know? And like, the, he didn't leave a note, you know, like what's that thought process like, or like, you know, did he think, like if someone had called if,

• 1:09:44Speaker 04

  you know, it's that kind of thing where you're just like,

• 1:09:48Speaker 04

  could it, could it have been different? And, and what did that feel like for him? And, and did he know how loved he was? Did he feel loved? Was he, was he mentally there? Like, dude, it's fucking, it's fucked, dude. It's, it's really fucked. And I joke about my trauma because it's like, what else are you gonna do? But like, oh God, it's really the thing that like, it's really the thing that.

• 1:10:19Speaker 04

  It really brings me back to to earth and to what matters and like it puts everything into perspective cuz

• 1:10:28Speaker 04

  I am so marked by death and I'm so marked by loss and there's a big part of that that I really appreciate cuz I I feel closer to the people that I love and and I love differently and I I live my life differently and I I'm not so scared about things that I might be scared about had I not had like the you know the comparison of the Mount Everest of loss right like I um there's beautiful things that come out of everything does that mean that I wouldn't change them or take them all back like no I would much rather have these things had not happened like have had these things not happen um but

• 1:11:08Speaker 04

  but I

• 1:11:11Speaker 04

  I do think that like you know

• 1:11:14Speaker 04

  part of the things that I really love about myself and my life now are marked by just the sort of deepening that happens with grief and like

• 1:11:24Speaker 04

  the level of fascination and love and appreciation and bonding that I have with humans in general like I think it's given me a kind of a a comfortability with with strangers and with people that I truly don't know or have no context of like I think that there's a certain like veil that drops when you realize how deep

• 1:11:51Speaker 04

  how deeply humans can feel pain like to to know that there is someone that you look at like a hero or or a complex character and and someone that you love and you worship

• 1:12:04Speaker 04

  the fact that they can be so sad and so lonely and so empty that they make the you know the ultimate decision is is something that

• 1:12:14Speaker 04

  it just everybody's so fragile and I really walk around the world feeling that way right

• 1:12:18Alex Cooper?

  I agree and I also think that's why like even speaking you to you right now it's like Why I'm so appreciative of my job is like, I get to sit with people like you who I only have had at one point, the privilege of watching on TV or listening to your music and you can get so much from it. And, and we're going to get to all of it in the new show and all of it. But what I think makes you then feel more connected to those people, especially with the internet now is like, when people do have the strength to share these kinds of things,

• 1:12:58Alex Cooper?

  this isn't easy. Like, we're not like, sitting here and it's like, oh, this is, let's just tell this story. So people can get to know you better. It's like, I'm also crying because I'm like, this is bringing up stuff for me, right? And it's like, we're all so connected when you're saying these things. It's like, everyone watching this will, will yes, feel more connected to you, but also it's therapeutic to hear other people talk about the heavy fucking shit, because we do convince ourselves in moments that maybe this is an isolated experience and maybe this is, and yes, all of our experiences are unique to us, but the themes and what it brings up and the emotions that human beings experience of anger and loneliness and grief

• 1:13:41Alex Cooper?

  and happiness, sadness, all the things, we all go through it. So it's, it's helpful sometimes to talk through things because you are on it at a different place in your life right now, when you're speaking about it, right? Like I said, if I interview you in five years from now, we may have a different conversation about this because you're going to live and you're going to experience and you're going to meet more people and you're going to then have a different perspective on life. But um, to kind of close out that chapter, because I think loss is something that people don't talk about enough. And I do think the way that

• 1:14:20Speaker 04

  Completely agree.

• 1:14:21Alex Cooper?

  Right? And the way you just talked about it, I literally felt like I was just sitting with my friend because I've had, I've had conversations like this of the what ifs and had they not or what would have had and all these things.

• 1:14:33Alex Cooper?

  This is the real shit. And I get movies have to do it a specific way, but this is, this is it. This is years later, and this is how we're feeling here. And we're still grieving and grieving isn't for a year and you're done like

• 1:14:44Speaker 04

  Oh dude, it's forever.

• 1:14:46Alex Cooper?

  Forever.

• 1:14:46Speaker 04

  It's forever.

• 1:14:47Alex Cooper?

  It's forever.

• 1:14:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:14:50Alex Cooper?

  You legally changed your name.

• 1:14:52Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:14:52Alex Cooper?

  From Chloe to Dove. And from what I can understand, you tell the story, but the why and where did Dove come from?

• 1:14:59Speaker 04

  My dad used to call me Dove as a nickname when I was a kid.

• 1:15:04Speaker 04

  Dovey and like, you know, little stupid things like that. It was never like, like he would, there was, when I was really young, I think it was more of a thing than when I got older, but it was something that like always felt,

• 1:15:17Speaker 04

  you know, like a me and him thing, like personal, sweet, intimate. And so I think when I got older, I just wanted to feel like even, even, even before he passed, I was wanting to feel that connection with him. I was wanting to feel like his daughter. I was wanting a piece of him.

• 1:15:39Speaker 04

  And so I did that in honor of him and to feel more like everywhere I went, everyone was calling me what he used to call me.

• 1:16:03Alex Cooper?

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• 1:16:48Alex Cooper?

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• 1:17:50Alex Cooper?

  Okay, shifting the conversation a little bit.

• 1:17:53Speaker 04

  Let's get into it.

• 1:17:54Alex Cooper?

  You referenced how all of these things obviously can impact your romantic relationships. And I obviously know that there's a little, well, a big, ring on your finger. You are recently engaged.

• 1:18:14Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:18:14Alex Cooper?

  I need to know how through all of the experiences and whether toxic or traumatic or just not the right fit, how did you know he was the one?

• 1:18:28Speaker 04

  Oh, God. I knew really early. I knew like way too early.

• 1:18:37Speaker 04

  I wrote a song about that, too. I was like, mm. Like, I hadn't even told him I loved him when I was like, this is probably, like, if he's not the person I end up marrying, that's gonna like really break my heart because my body and my mind and everything feels like that's what this is.

• 1:18:55Speaker 04

  So I was like super freaked out about that. Like naturally, I was like,

• 1:18:58Alex Cooper?

  shit.

• 1:18:58Speaker 04

  Fuck, yeah, I really was. I was uneasy. I was really uneasy. And he also was in a very different place in his life. Like, he was not...

• 1:19:10Speaker 04

  I think he would feel comfortable with me saying he was not the happiest, you know, he was struggling emotionally and everything wise. And so he was also not like matching my level of like, oh, this feels like something really special. He was still like, kind of an enigma. You know what I mean? Like, he was kind of behind layers of glass, but I was like, I just have this feeling that whoever's behind these layers of glass is going to be someone very important to my life. And so we started dating in the most ridiculous way. We met at the VMAs, which is like the stupidest

• 1:19:51Speaker 04

  way you can meet your partner. Not because the VMAs are stupid, but because it's like, one night only. Like, it sounds like a book, like a fanfiction, you know? Like, it's like, we ran into each other in passing and it was like, it's so stupid, it's so dumb.

• 1:20:05Alex Cooper?

  And then what did you do? Just like get each other's number?

• 1:20:07Speaker 04

  No. Okay, here's something I want to go on the record.

• 1:20:09Alex Cooper?

  Oh, let's go on the record.

• 1:20:10Speaker 04

  And I want to clarify a couple things, all right? We're done crying, we're time to be serious.

• 1:20:15Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, well, let's go, let's go.

• 1:20:15Speaker 04

  It's time to be serious. So, we met for, I have to say, if I were to accurately estimate, 14 seconds at the most.

• 1:20:28Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 1:20:29Speaker 04

  At the 20, you go, she's like, she's like, I'm tapping in.

• 1:20:32Alex Cooper?

  I'm tapping in, I'm getting rid of my tears.

• 1:20:33Speaker 04

  Drying your eyes, getting rid of the salt water. I would say it couldn't have been more than 14 or 15 seconds at the 2022 VMAs. They, he is in a band called Monoskin and they were up for an award. I was up for the same award. What you do cordially is whoever wins after you go like, congrats dude. So I won. And so we're backstage and the backstage is very small. It is, it is the size of like a fucking, I don't know, it's like, I don't know what to compare it to.

• 1:21:01Alex Cooper?

  What accent are we going into?

• 1:21:03Speaker 04

  If I say what it is, everyone's gonna tell me it's not that. So it's east coast.

• 1:21:07Alex Cooper?

  Just go with it.

• 1:21:07Speaker 04

  East coast.

• 1:21:08Alex Cooper?

  Okay, okay.

• 1:21:09Speaker 04

  So fucking, um, it's a small area. Like it's like, it's like the size of like, um,

• 1:21:15Alex Cooper?

  It's tiny.

• 1:21:16Speaker 04

  Like in front of a movie, like in front of a movie theater, like the concession stand.

• 1:21:19Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 1:21:19Speaker 04

  It's like that and like a little bit of standing room. And that's how small it is. It's small. You've seen it.

• 1:21:22Alex Cooper?

  We're rubbing shoulders.

• 1:21:23Speaker 04

  It's small back there.

• 1:21:24Alex Cooper?

  Tiny.

• 1:21:24Speaker 04

  We're rubbing shoulders and there's four of them. So I just want to award. I'm like, oh my God, I want a VMA. I come backstage and um, they're naturally like, nice to meet you. Congrats. And I actually spoke with Victoria, his bassist, and she was like, congrats, girl. And I was like, yes, girl. Like you're amazing. Um, and then Ethan and Thomas were like, congrats. And then Damiano was in the back. So he barely looked at me like, and he was also not giving off friendly vibes. Like he was like, I was like, that guy fucking hates me. All right. Swerve. Like I was like, gonna go on with my night. Like I met a bunch of people. Everybody's like, congrats. And I was like, I didn't think about it. It was not, there's this whole conspiracy online that I locked eyes with him and I was like,

• 1:22:07Speaker 04

  I'm biding my time. And I waited like a year and a half and then I like struck. Like, but that's not what happened. I met him. I literally met him for no time, guys. And then he was back there like this and he was like, congrats. And I was like, oh, weird vibe. And I was like, nice to meet you. And later I learned he was just like in a really bad place. Like it had nothing to do with me, but I took it personally and I was like, fucking weird. All right. Bye.

• 1:22:32Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 1:22:32Speaker 04

  And this is the other thing I have to clear up. Dun dun. I'm like, what's the fucking like cops music? Like dun dun. Like,

• 1:22:39Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I love like the direct look to camera. You're like, hello.

• 1:22:43Speaker 04

  Listen up, ladies and gentlemen and everybody listening.

• 1:22:49Speaker 04

  There was this interview that they did where they were like, what celebrities have slid into your DMs? And Damiano, before I'd even like, met him, I think. I don't know what the timeline was because I don't know when they did this interview.

• 1:22:59Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 1:23:00Speaker 04

  Was like Dove Cameron. And now everybody's like, she was trying for, no, no.

• 1:23:04Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 1:23:05Speaker 04

  I looked back because I was like, what is this? I had posted and tagged them in a video performance of them for the iHeart Radio Music Awards. And I was like, cool band.

• 1:23:14Alex Cooper?

  Right. And then

• 1:23:15Speaker 04

  I was like, the new queen.

• 1:23:16Alex Cooper?

  And then you slide and it looks like you DM'd.

• 1:23:19Speaker 04

  But I think he was saying that's like sliding into the DMs. Like, I don't think he thought it was like, who's flirting with you? He was like, who tagged you? Who interacted with you? Who DM'd you? That was it!

• 1:23:28Alex Cooper?

  Meanwhile, people are thinking, you're like, hey babe.

• 1:23:31Speaker 04

  My god, well, especially because first of all, I am nothing if not practical. Even if I think someone is maybe cute, first of all, I have never slid into DMs in a flirtatious way because I'm not good over text. And also, what if I don't like you in real life? What if we have this whole thing over text and then I meet you and I'm like, I don't like you. Like, I'm not gonna do that, you know? So like, you can look back at my text record. Anytime someone has slid into my DMs, seen, I'm not replying. It's weird. Like, catch me in real life. I don't know. Catch me in real life. Let's see if we have chemistry. So that didn't happen. I tagged them in something and I tagged the band.

• 1:24:09Alex Cooper?

  So is the internet like making it seem like you're like, you were like obsessed with him for years?

• 1:24:12Speaker 04

  Not the whole internet, but there is a small section of people that always bring up, they're like, but she did slide into his DM. And I'm like, no, I didn't.

• 1:24:19Alex Cooper?

  Please leave me alone.

• 1:24:20Speaker 04

  I fully didn't. And I also looked back because I was like, did I?

• 1:24:24Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 1:24:24Speaker 04

  Because he said that before I like had really met him. So I was like, I must have. And it was because I tagged them because I was so impressed by them.

• 1:24:31Alex Cooper?

  Of course.

• 1:24:31Speaker 04

  I was a fan of their music. And then the 2023 VMAs roll around and we had a reason to talk. And he was single and I was single and he was in a better place and I was in a better place. And he was like, I don't know if you remember me, I'm Damiano. And I was like, yeah, I remember you. Like, you're so different now. Like, he was so friendly. And then he was like, do you want to come to our show at Madison Square Garden? And I was like, yeah. And then we just started dating and now we're engaged. Like, it's, it's so, so innocent and simple.

• 1:25:00Alex Cooper?

  But it's amazing and it's so cute to

• 1:25:03Speaker 04

  It's really

• 1:25:04Alex Cooper?

  It's really cute. It's really cute that it started that way. Now to be like, you're fully engaged, like,

• 1:25:10Speaker 04

  It's also so like, I don't know, like meet cute. Like, I look back and I'm like, all the different stars that had to align to make that happen.

• 1:25:17Alex Cooper?

  Fully.

• 1:25:18Speaker 04

  It blows my mind.

• 1:25:18Alex Cooper?

  And it didn't just happen overnight. It was just like, like, low burn, but first fully

• 1:25:24Speaker 04

  Well, it was just like all these different ways that we almost But then we didn't until it was right. Like, that's what's mind blowing to me. Cause if I had met him before I did, in a way where he was interested in me, and there was an opportunity for us to be dating, I would not have been ready. Cause I was so depressed. So like,

• 1:25:42Alex Cooper?

  You weren't in a place to date.

• 1:25:43Speaker 04

  No, I was like celibate. I was like,

• 1:25:45Alex Cooper?

  That was the, that was the, um,

• 1:25:47Speaker 04

  That was

• 1:25:48Alex Cooper?

  Sabbatical hiatus that we discussed.

• 1:25:49Speaker 04

  Celibacy era where I was like, don't touch me, don't look at me, don't come close to me. I'm not leaving my house. Like, um, I was like Dark Knight of the Soul for a year.

• 1:25:57Alex Cooper?

  And then you were ready.

• 1:25:59Speaker 04

  I literally texted my friends and I was like, I think I'm ready to date. One week later, he was like, nice to meet you. I was like,

• 1:26:05Alex Cooper?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:26:05Speaker 04

  Wait a minute.

• 1:26:07Alex Cooper?

  So then, give us a little tidbit. How, how did it go down? Give me something.

• 1:26:15Speaker 04

  Okay, so, okay, so it's actually very funny, and then like very sweet.

• 1:26:21Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 1:26:21Speaker 04

  Cause so,

• 1:26:24Alex Cooper?

  I'm obsessed.

• 1:26:25Speaker 04

  It's honestly, it's, it sends me because,

• 1:26:30Speaker 04

  if you knew him, this would be so, so cute and funny. But, so he's a Capricorn too.

• 1:26:35Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 1:26:36Speaker 04

  And he is like the most, uh, regimented, like by the books guy. Like, he's like, there's, there's a way that things should be done. And if they are not done that way, then it's wrong. And so, we had talked about the fact that we wanted to get married. Like, I knew, it was not like this big like, will he, won't he? Like, I knew it was coming. Cause he told me. Like, he was like, I'm gonna propose. And I was like, really? And he was like, a hundred percent.

• 1:27:06Alex Cooper?

  So you knew?

• 1:27:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, but he'd been telling me for a long time. Like, I think he told me after like six months of dating, that he was like, I'm gonna propose, but, but not for a couple of years. And I was like,

• 1:27:15Alex Cooper?

  Great.

• 1:27:16Speaker 04

  Do you? I was like, love that. Also, I also was a little bit like, maybe he won't. Like, he says that now, it's only been a couple of months. And then, at the top of like 2024, he was like, no, top of 2025, we were in New York, and he was like, We were both like crying and he was like, I want to marry you. And I was like, I know me too. And he was like, nobody want to marry you. And I was like, I know I we've spoken about this like me too.

• 1:27:42Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 1:27:42Speaker 04

  Same. And he was like, I want to marry you as soon as possible. And I was like, oh, okay. But like you have to go on your world tour and like, at the time I was also supposed to go on my world tour. And I was like, my, my show is going to come out, like all this stuff's happening. We wouldn't be able to do it for two years. He's like, no, I think we could do it next year. And so like all, every step of the way I knew.

• 1:28:02Alex Cooper?

  You were speaking about this openly.

• 1:28:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, because I don't think that that thing in the movies is.

• 1:28:06Alex Cooper?

  I agree. You need to.

• 1:28:07Speaker 04

  You will grow up and you're like, wait.

• 1:28:09Alex Cooper?

  Well, and you should like be an active participant in deciding if you.

• 1:28:12Speaker 04

  Want to get married or like what that looks like or do your values align or.

• 1:28:17Alex Cooper?

  Talk about it all before.

• 1:28:18Speaker 04

  The future, like, do you want kids? Like, what about, how do you feel about, where do you want to live? Like, you can't enter into a contract. Like, just you, you grew up with these movies as a girl and they're all like, yeah, they're like, now I have to leave my apartment. And it's like, wait, but not to say that you should always live together, but you should at least experience what it's like to live with someone.

• 1:28:36Alex Cooper?

  And you should be.

• 1:28:37Speaker 04

  In my opinion.

• 1:28:37Alex Cooper?

  You can be shocked by the moment he decides to do it, but you shouldn't be shocked that he's doing it.

• 1:28:44Speaker 04

  I agree because like all in all these movies, it's like, that's my boyfriend, my boyfriend, my, oh my God, he chose me. And it's like.

• 1:28:51Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 1:28:51Speaker 04

  Fucking weird. I want to be in on this.

• 1:28:53Alex Cooper?

  I said, dude, I did the same thing with my husband now. I was like, I'm ready. You can do it. Cause he had been like, I'm ready whenever you're ready. And finally I turned to him at one dinner. I was like, you can do it.

• 1:29:04Speaker 04

  And he had it in his pocket.

• 1:29:06Alex Cooper?

  I was like, I don't know. I don't want to know when it's happening, but you're, you can do it. Like I'm ready. And then we were both talked about it for a long time before then it happened. So like I'm, we're on the same page. Again, everyone has different ideas, but I'm on same page.

• 1:29:17Speaker 04

  For me, I just want to, it's not that I don't like being surprised. It's just that like, yeah, it's again, it just feels practical. It just feels adult, right?

• 1:29:26Alex Cooper?

  Okay, so.

• 1:29:27Speaker 04

  So I know it's coming, but I don't know when. And he, he's telling me things like, oh, we're starting to design the ring. And I was like. What does that mean? Like, does that mean it's two weeks away? Does it mean it's six months away? Like such an amorphous concept? And so I start like telling a couple of my friend, like I'm going into songwriting sessions being like, I was fucking designing the ring and they're like, ah! So we're like, I'm like, what's the fucking plan? Like, I'm not a girl girl like that. Like, what are we gonna do? And they and they were like, you have to wear white every fucking day. And I was like, you're so fucking right, queen. Like, I gotta order all this fucking white. And we were going on this vacation in August to Puglia. Did I say that right, Italians? I really tried. Um, and which is like a beachy Italian getaway.

• 1:30:12Speaker 04

  And I was like, this is what's gonna happen. I was like, we're going away for three weeks?

• 1:30:16Alex Cooper?

  White, white, white.

• 1:30:17Speaker 04

  Exactly. I was like, white for breakfast.

• 1:30:21Speaker 04

  He's like, wow, you look so, somebody said the other day, it's not funny. Someone was like, wow, baby, you you look like you're about to join a cult. Like, I was like, it is true. It's so like, it's so like,

• 1:30:30Alex Cooper?

  You open your luggage bag and you're like,

• 1:30:32Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, dude. Yeah, dude. And also impractical for a vacation. Like, you're like, everything's fucking dirty.

• 1:30:37Alex Cooper?

  Yep.

• 1:30:37Speaker 04

  Um, but I was like, trying my best. Like, every day I was like, learning how to use like bronzer. Like, I was like, I was like, going in the sun and like doing like extra like little braids. You can go back and look at my TikTok. I was doing it.

• 1:30:49Alex Cooper?

  Oh, my god.

• 1:30:50Speaker 04

  People will be like, oh, yeah, this is when she thought she was gonna get proposed to. I was like, trying, trying to be girly.

• 1:30:57Speaker 04

  Vacation, you know, we're on like the one of the final nights and he goes like, I know I'm not supposed to say this, but I'm just a little drunk and I can't wait for you to see the ring. It's like a ring for a princess. And I was like, so it's not here. So I was like, the ring's not here.

• 1:31:12Alex Cooper?

  Oh, my god.

• 1:31:14Speaker 04

  And so I would, I didn't have a problem. I was just like, I wanna be at least looking cute. I just wanna be looking cute.

• 1:31:20Alex Cooper?

  I get it.

• 1:31:21Speaker 04

  So all this time's going by and I'm like, maybe it's this, maybe he's gonna do it here. And my, literally like my manager, who's in the other room, we were like guessing, being like, maybe it's Japan. You guys love Japan. And I was like, that's true, but like, but he wouldn't want to do it in public. Like, so we're trying to crack this code.

• 1:31:35Alex Cooper?

  Like, I have to stop wearing white.

• 1:31:36Speaker 04

  All the girls, I was like, it's getting weird. I'm wearing so much white. No, but but so all the girls were like, huh? And I was like, nah. So, so again, I was not in any hurry, but it was just like, he'd been talking about it for so long that it was like a six month period that it could have been anytime, right?

• 1:31:53Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 1:31:53Speaker 04

  So, so one day, we're at home.

• 1:31:59Speaker 04

  And I had said, baby, we talked about it like a year ago. That he was like, I always felt like it would be really romantic to propose like doing something normal so that it's like, you know, this is like our life together. And I was like, yeah. I'm not really one for like big outlandish, like again, I'm a Capricorn. So I'm like, if you throw me a surprise party, I'm gonna be like, oh, thank you. But it's not like how I would plan it.

• 1:32:23Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 1:32:24Speaker 04

  And so I was like, yeah, something low key. I agree. But like you do you like, I want you to be happy.

• 1:32:29Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 1:32:29Speaker 04

  Basically, we were, we were packing and I was in just a big T-shirt, no makeup. My hair was like damp. And it was so funny because he'd been finished packing, of course, because I was like, I'm always like trying to pack like a fucking, I was like, I've never packed before in my life. And so I'm like running around and I was in a particularly good mood. And he was in the hallway like watching me run in and out of rooms like a Tasmanian devil. And he wasn't moving from that spot. And I was like,

• 1:33:02Speaker 04

  I was like, at this point, he'd be like playing video games or like something, right? Like I'm done packing. And so I came out again and I like gave him a kiss on the cheek and he did that thing. I don't know if your partner ever does this, but you know, you know, when guys go.

• 1:33:14Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 1:33:15Speaker 04

  That look where it's like suddenly you're like,

• 1:33:17Alex Cooper?

  Oh, God.

• 1:33:17Speaker 04

  And I knew and I fucking knew. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Cause I was like, I gotta go put on a dress. I gotta go do my makeup. Like I gotta do something. Cause I had made him promise that like, at least we would, we would try to take a photograph of the moment. And so I like panicked and I went into the other room and I was like, I like kept packing and I was like, no, because I, because I told him, I told him that I wanted to, I wanted photographic evidence. So like, there's, there's not a photographer here. And I was like trying to like, and he goes, babe. I was like, oh my God, oh my God. Cause also like just right before someone proposes, like your heart rate just goes through the roof. And he was like, can you come into the room, please? And I went into the living room. And he got down on one knee and I, dude, I swear I'm not gonna cry, but I started crying immediately. I was like,

• 1:34:01Speaker 04

  because he, it was so fucking charming and sweet and kind and moving. Cause he was like, He was like, I, I know that some girls want like rose petals and these big extravagant things, but I wanted to do it like this because I want you to know that I, the reason I want to marry you is because I want this life with you. I want dishes. I want laundry. I want normalcy. I want you in your big T-shirt and you're no makeup and I want, I want a life life and I choose this. I choose you. I hope you choose me. I hope you choose this. And I was like,

• 1:34:38Alex Cooper?

  You're like, fuck the white dress.

• 1:34:42Speaker 04

  Dude, I was like, I was so, I mean, what more could you ask for?

• 1:34:46Alex Cooper?

  You can't, that's, it's, it's, that's the real shit in life. And of course, and if you choose to do a wedding and you want to do all the pictures and that's when that can come. And if you choose that.

• 1:34:56Speaker 04

  But I was so wrong because it was so, it was so much more special, the way that he did it. And like,

• 1:35:01Alex Cooper?

  And real.

• 1:35:03Speaker 04

  Yeah. And that's so like who he is as a person. Like he's so, I don't know. He really is the most normal, grounded, beautiful, smart person. And like, and it, it's so, the funniest part was at the end, when I go, because of course I'm like, yes, yes. And I'm crying. And he shows me the ring and I'm like gobsmacked because wow.

• 1:35:24Alex Cooper?

  It's so beautiful.

• 1:35:25Speaker 04

  I really couldn't have ever met,

• 1:35:27Alex Cooper?

  It's perfect.

• 1:35:28Speaker 04

  Rose gold too. Like what a guy. What a fucking guy.

• 1:35:31Alex Cooper?

  It's perfect.

• 1:35:32Speaker 04

  And at the very end, I go, by the way, I'm downplaying it. I was crying a lot. Um, at the end, I go, wait, but you said there was going to be photographic evidence. And he picks up his phone and he's like, I was videoing. And so now we have this like minute long video of the proposal in our living room. And you see me like this and you see me shaking and him being like, oh no, it's too big. And I'm like, it's okay. They're always too big. Like, it's so beautiful.

• 1:35:56Alex Cooper?

  It's so beautiful too, because again, I think every couple, like you, he knows you and you know him. And so you look back on that and we, again, back to the movies, we have these specific ideas and some people that actually the over the top is right. Some people, the more quiet, like it's, it's, you need to know your person and the fact that he knows you and he listened to you and he actually almost knew you better than yourself in that moment of exactly what you wanted.

• 1:36:22Speaker 04

  Well, he did because I was over in the other room being like, Like, oh, God, I look like shit.

• 1:36:26Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 1:36:26Speaker 04

  And he was there being like, I, this is you, that I choose, you know?

• 1:36:31Alex Cooper?

  It's, it's so beautiful. And I'm also curious, you know, of everything we also have been talking about today. You've been through so much in your life. And I think a lot of times when you meet a partner romantically,

• 1:36:46Alex Cooper?

  at some point, you need to share with them what you've been through and who you are. And how have you been able to share with him the

• 1:36:57Alex Cooper?

  moments in your life that have, yes, shaped you and made you who you are in the positives? And also the traumatic things that have happened to you? And like, how has he met you where you needed to be met, essentially?

• 1:37:11Speaker 04

  Weirdly with ease, like I, I told him everything about myself that I thought was make or break, or that I thought was educational, or that I thought was too much, pretty immediately. Like, I was like, I'm not going to be anything else for you. I've done that before. Here's absolutely everything, even the things I don't want to admit to myself. Here's my mistakes. Here's the things that I wish I did differently. Here's all the loss. Here's my things I still struggle with, which is like, do you sign on for this? And he was like, yeah. Like, he just was like, picked it up and put it on his back. Like, he was, oh, my God, it was so healing for me. And it continues to be, right?

• 1:37:53Speaker 04

  Because like, I'll never forget, actually, this was a big, important moment for me.

• 1:38:02Speaker 04

  We were watching Titanic for the first time. Because I don't think he'd seen it, weirdly. It's like one of the classics he hadn't seen. And there's a moment at the very end when someone commits suicide. And I had forgotten about it because I hadn't seen Titanic in so long.

• 1:38:18Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:19Speaker 04

  But that happened and I immediately, we were like lying in bed and this was like month four, like early. And we'd been long distance for the first two months. And he had like his hand on my stomach and I was laying on his chest. And we were watching this and it was too early in our relationship for me to break the chill, you know, to like show true, full trauma. But he just sensed my stomach go at that. And his brain went,

• 1:38:46Speaker 04

  Oh, of course. And he changed his entire posture. He didn't ask me. He pulled me in. He like, uh, he started petting me and then he reached up without even seeing and started to wipe away what he knew was gonna be tears.

• 1:39:02Speaker 04

  And at the end of the movie, he like, let the air be open to be like, do you wanna talk about, do you not wanna talk about that? And I, at the end, I was like, I wanna talk about it. And he has always been so intuitive, supportive, um, truly like unflappable, unshakable and so ready to, especially with this, be like, I do not know. I cannot say the words that heal, but like,

• 1:39:35Speaker 04

  he's, he's been, he's like a big, um, I think I've said this before, but like a big basin for all of these things. And because he only has the interest in not carrying it for me because he knows he can't, but like, loving me through it. He's, uh, he's never wavered. Like I've never once seen him be like, this is too much. I've seen him get frustrated when he can't help me where he's like,

• 1:39:59Alex Cooper?

  Of course.

• 1:39:59Speaker 04

  I wish I could lift this for you.

• 1:40:01Alex Cooper?

  And take it almost for you. Yeah.

• 1:40:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, but he's just the most evolved, beautiful young man. It's, it really still shakes me.

• 1:40:10Alex Cooper?

  No, and I, I appreciate you sharing because I do know you guys are more private, but I think to all the people listening who've been on this journey with us today, I think when you hear and you know, you've been through so much in your life and there's people that are gonna be like, girl, I can relate on so many of these topics and themes. I think sometimes we can convince ourselves, we, there's no way I'll find someone who can, the word would be handle this, right? Handle it. And what you're talking about actually, which is so beautiful is like, no, no, you don't need to push down your, the grief and the sadness and the things. You actually just have to find the right person who can be there to support you through it. They're not gonna solve it for you or fix it for you. And you are worthy of finding your constant.

• 1:40:55Alex Cooper?

  And that person that's going to be there for you, which you have found, which is so beautiful. And to everyone watching, if you haven't found that yet, it is coming. And don't shrink yourself or believe that you're too damaged or too fucked up that you can't find it. It's just, it really is about finding the right person that can, you can merge your life with, that can handle that with you.

• 1:41:16Speaker 04

  Yes. Yeah, I completely agree. I also think like, some of my previous relationships were just bad matches. Some of them were trauma bonds and me choosing to like, continue on that path and not seeing all the red flags. And they were truly terrible. Um, and so like, I was looking at that as a sort of a proof that I was broken. Right? Whereas, and like, I cannot choose love. I cannot, um, I cannot, I'm not worthy of a real love. And I am always going to pick someone that's going to harm me. Right? That was my narrative. And I know that's a lot of young women's narrative, women's narratives, you know, people's narratives. Is that like, I am too broken to not only be loved, but then accept it.

• 1:41:59Speaker 04

  And so my choices for partner are always going to be, um, people that, that sort of mimic where I come from. And I won't know how to ascertain that that's what's happening until it's too late. That was what I had thought. And then I spent some time alone and I was finally ready to date someone. And when I say some time, it was like two years. Like I, I spent like two and a half years being, not only not dating or seeing anyone, but like really working through my shit so that I felt okay being alone. So that I felt like I actually don't need a partner. Um, so it can fall into that old sort of like, just when you stop looking, it comes, you know? And it is true. And it is true, but I think part of that, rather than like, it is energetic for sure.

• 1:42:44Speaker 04

  Cause you're like, I am fulfilled. And so someone's like, ah, I feel, it feels like it's like, it's a, it's a vibration that attracts. But it is also a bit scientific. Like it's, it's a bit more not scientific, logical, because it's like, I am not.

• 1:43:01Speaker 04

  Trying to take from you. I'm not trying to make you into a shape that you're not. I am simply here.

• 1:43:09Speaker 04

  And if it works, it works. And what's more attractive than that?

• 1:43:12Alex Cooper?

  You know? Thing.

• 1:43:13Speaker 04

  Um.

• 1:43:13Alex Cooper?

  For me too. I also feel like, let's talk about your new show because there's like weirdly some themes that we've like discussed that you can like kind of tie to the show and there's there's a lot.

• 1:43:27Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:43:27Alex Cooper?

  So fifty six days. You take it away and tell the people. Give us a little just like what this is about.

• 1:43:35Speaker 04

  So fifty six days, which no one realizes is the title because they keep saying, they keep thinking we're saying it comes out in fifty six days. It's called fifty six days. And it is based on the novel by the same name. Um, it's a, I guess I would call it like a, like a pseudo sexual thriller. Um, it is a love story. Starts out as a love story.

• 1:43:56Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, I was gonna say.

• 1:43:57Speaker 04

  Starts out as a love story. It's a very like meet cute, like, you know, boy meets girl in the grocery store. And it's like, you go first. No, you go first. Let's go for coffee. Um, they have this very sort of innocent chemistry. They have this nice walk. Uh, and it's like, oh, I do this. I do this. Like, do you want to go for a date? Okay. Very charming. And then somehow between that day and fifty six days later, one of them ends up dead in a bathtub melted by acid.

• 1:44:27Alex Cooper?

  Casual.

• 1:44:28Speaker 04

  So the whole, yeah.

• 1:44:30Alex Cooper?

  Casual.

• 1:44:31Speaker 04

  As it does, as it happens.

• 1:44:32Alex Cooper?

  Obviously.

• 1:44:33Speaker 04

  As all the best love stories do. So basically, the, the show takes, takes place over eight episodes and it is working in, it's a dual timeline. So our storyline is progressing towards day fifty six. And the, the police who are trying to solve the case are solving it all over the course of, I think, like one or two days. And they are retroactively solving the case. So they're going, we're going like this as their. We're meeting them.

• 1:45:02Alex Cooper?

  One, it's so fun. And I also know you were, I think you kind of talked about how you were torn. Like, there's nudity in this.

• 1:45:08Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:45:08Alex Cooper?

  How did you decide you were comfortable?

• 1:45:12Speaker 04

  You know, it was funny. It's, it's something that I was always aware that I was probably going to inevitably do. Um, I don't know why I always felt that way. It wasn't like an aspiration. It was just like, I grew up watching these incredible actresses do nudity. And I remember being like, wow, that's so brave and cool. Like, that's gotta be so, you have to be so courageous to do that. And I know somebody in the comments is gonna be like courageous. And it's like, yeah, courageous. It's so vulnerable. Like, I don't think, I don't think people really realize how vulnerable it is to be fully naked, period, on camera, but then fully naked,

• 1:45:55Speaker 04

  simulating sex on camera in a room full of people. Like, it is harrowing.

• 1:46:00Alex Cooper?

  And for you, rewind to what you said earlier of the first bikini photo you posted online. People were like,

• 1:46:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, no, I thought about that.

• 1:46:09Alex Cooper?

  This is crazy. So it's like this, to see, yes, as a woman to do this, it is, I agree courageous. On top of that, having the Disney background, having people be familiar with you in one light, to then, you know, grow up essentially and try something more adult. Like, it is, it's,

• 1:46:27Speaker 04

  It's a kind of a crazy move, yeah.

• 1:46:29Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, but I think, I mean, if it felt right, then that's all that matters for you, right?

• 1:46:33Speaker 04

  I was like, so down for it. I was like, I don't really have any hangups about my body or sexuality. Like, I've never found nudity to be, um, offensive or even objectifying. Like, I think that when people say that nudity is lewd or crass or sinful or objectifying, it's like, I do find there's a fuck ton of internalized misogyny in that.

• 1:46:55Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 1:46:55Speaker 04

  I don't care. Like, I truly don't care.

• 1:46:57Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 1:46:58Speaker 04

  No, I don't care. Like, I see a naked woman and I'm like, wow, what a beautiful naked woman.

• 1:47:01Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 1:47:02Speaker 04

  What a piece of art. I'm not like, she's cheap and her stuff. Or I'm not like, oh my God. And it's like, all of these reactions are so, for me, um, The reactions are actually the objectifying part, right? It's not, it's not the actual act because naked bodies are an innocent thing. You are naked, you are naked under that.

• 1:47:21Alex Cooper?

  Right, and you are making it weird. You are making it sexual, you are, exactly.

• 1:47:26Speaker 04

  What I will say about our show that I'm really proud of and happy with is that the sex scenes actually serve, they're much more tame, I think, than, than what I'm making them out to be. But they serve as a storytelling device because the sex scenes that are in the first couple of episodes are not the same tone as the ones who are in, the ones that are in the following episodes. And it's like you watch their dynamic shift and change in this very sort of intimate, vulnerable way that is more storytelling than a lot of other devices.

• 1:47:59Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:47:59Speaker 04

  For our show.

• 1:48:00Alex Cooper?

  The daddy gang will love this and I think also the deception as a viewer, it's like so fun to be like, I don't know what's happening right now and the world that was created is so interesting. And so I'm very excited for everyone to watch it and also support you. I think I'm sure after this interview, everyone that, you know, follows the show is going to fall even more in love with you, whether they were a big fan or they're becoming an even bigger fan today. I think it's really just exciting to hear where you've come from, that young little girl wanting to get into Hollywood, dealing with so much, getting into Hollywood, maybe, you know, starting on one path and then completely rebranding and getting

• 1:48:44Alex Cooper?

  to grow into another version of yourself that is different to the world and reintroducing that part of yourself to the world while also dealing with all of the shit that you had to deal with as a kid that then you have to conquer as an adult and then meeting the love of your life and finding your partner and finding your constant and, and having just so many moments of.

• 1:49:08Alex Cooper?

  Human

• 1:49:09Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:49:09Alex Cooper?

  Experiences that I think is really beautiful. And then now to see you as an actress, obviously, and you taking on this role. It's um, it's really, really cool to have gotten to know you today because I feel like I got to. I hope it wasn't too all over the place, but I felt like in a good way, we were bouncing all around and and learning about you um, as a human being, not just Dove Cameron, the person that we have seen for so many years online and on TV, and it was beyond a pleasure. And I know we went deep and I know we both didn't want to cry, but we did. And I can't thank you enough for going there.

• 1:49:48Speaker 04

  Oh dude, I'm so pleased. I'm obsessed with you. You're the second love of my life. Yeah, my best friend's out.

• 1:49:56Alex Cooper?

  We're done.

• 1:49:56Speaker 04

  Fuck you. Fifteen years of friendship over just like that. No.

• 1:50:01Alex Cooper?

  This was really cool.

• 1:50:01Speaker 04

  No, you're so lovely. You're so smart. I'm really honored. I'm also like very impressed by you like, and I'm not just saying that because you're right here, but like I, I don't know, you have such a lovely energy. You're clearly so kind. You're so invested and you must spend so much time delving into other people's psyches. And not only are you so good at it, but you have this like well of effervescent energy for it, which is really generous. And I don't know, I was really pleased. I really, I think you're wonderful.

• 1:50:27Alex Cooper?

  Thank you. And I am so excited to continue to follow your career and watch what you continue to do. And on a personal level, I can't wait to see if there's a wedding, whatever you share. I will be following.

• 1:50:40Speaker 04

  Engage forever, no wedding.

• 1:50:41Alex Cooper?

  Perfect, done. Thank you, Dove Cameron, for coming on Call Her Daddy.

• 1:50:45Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 1:51:01Alex Cooper?

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• 1:51:44Alex Cooper?

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• 1:52:28Alex Cooper?

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• 1:53:09Alex Cooper?

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• 1:53:53Alex Cooper?

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