John Mayer (FBF)

John Mayer joins Call Her Daddy - and you’ve never seen him like this before. He discusses his rise to fame, relationships, love and what’s next. Get ready for the first ever Call Her Daddy Holiday Special, featuring live performances from John Mayer.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Alex Cooper?

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• 0:45Alex Cooper?

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• 1:30Alex Cooper?

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• 2:13Alex Cooper?

  What is up Daddy Gang? It is your founding father Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy.

• 2:22Alex Cooper?

  John Mayer, welcome to Call Her Daddy.

• 2:24Speaker 01

  Thank you, Alex.

• 2:25Alex Cooper?

  I am so happy you're here, John. I think we need to tell the Daddy Gang, who are my listeners, how did we get here? Because we went to a little dinner the other night, and I want to kind of go through what happened at that dinner because people are probably like, "How did you get John Mayer to come on your show?"

• 2:41Speaker 01

  There's only one way, which is to find me personally, have dinner with me, be cool. And you're actually an incredible pitch woman for coming on the show. And I didn't really have an intention of coming on. We had a great dinner, Kazzy, David, you, and me. And I think there's something to do with December where you've all year been yourself, followed your rules, done what you normally do, don't do what you don't normally do. And I think somewhere in the last couple of weeks of each year, I go like, "I want to do something out of character."

• 3:13Alex Cooper?

  I'm so happy this is what you're calling out of character and you get to sit down with me because I, yeah, I pitched you, like, why you should come on the show. And you and I kind of like battled for a minute. Meanwhile, Kazzy's sitting there like eating her chips, like loving every second of it, just being so happy that she facilitated.

• 3:30Speaker 01

  It was a debate.

• 3:31Alex Cooper?

  And you decided to come on. What I liked about that meeting at dinner was that you are very sure of yourself. Have you always been that confident? Like, what were you like in high school?

• 3:44Speaker 01

  Oh, that's, I've had some degree of confidence. It took that to get out of my town, to get into the world, to push against the forces of people who were saying, not just not encouraging me, but actively discouraging me from doing what I ultimately have done. And so, the quality of that confidence has changed from like a beat down every door, push yourself on people as much as you can all the time, to something way more relaxed. So, everyone when they first start out is way more confident than they need to be because they don't know how confident they need to be, right?

• 4:25Alex Cooper?

  Oh, interesting.

• 4:26Speaker 01

  And so, I was kind of obnoxious when I was younger. I mean, if you're spending your whole youth pushing against these forces of, "You can't do it. You're crazy. You're gonna end up on the street. This is a terrible idea." That's gonna have a hangover effect on you for a long time where you're gonna still keep pushing.

• 4:45Alex Cooper?

  That's really interesting cuz I can imagine like I was, why I'm asking about high school is because I feel like we can agree that they're such formative years where peer approval socially is so important towards the way that you view yourself. How did you get along with people and how did people treat you?

• 5:02Speaker 01

  I didn't and they didn't. I didn't have a presence. I went to school to get it over with and my life began at 3 o'clock in the afternoon when I came home and played guitar. So I didn't dislike anybody and I almost didn't even need that particular level of approval. I was kind of invisible and I just went to go. I didn't really pay attention in class. It's, it's really hard to explain and there are people out there who I think would understand when you're 13 years old, you got 5 years before you can even do anything on your own. And those, that was the hardest part of my entire life was from 13 to getting out of high school.

• 5:42Speaker 01

  Because you already know what you know and you have to go through the rest of this kind of rote plan that's been set for everyone. And I remember sitting in class going like, "I'm not supposed to be here."

• 5:54Alex Cooper?

  Right, like you, you're, so you're saying you knew what you wanted to do. You knew you were gonna be a musician. You're like, "Why am I in social studies? Like, what the fuck am I doing here?" Did people bully you? Like, were you the like dorky musician or no?

• 6:07Speaker 01

  I was bullied a little bit, but I was always kinda big. I was tall. I remember getting punched in the arm for flinching. I don't know if you've, if that's still a thing. This is the most butch your show has ever been. I'm talking to.

• 6:20Alex Cooper?

  I love it.

• 6:21Speaker 01

  Talking to you about.

• 6:21Alex Cooper?

  The Christmas special. Were, okay, did you date in high school?

• 6:25Speaker 01

  I had one girlfriend in high school, but I didn't really date. I had one girlfriend in high school.

• 6:29Alex Cooper?

  What were you like in like, uh, what was John like in high school dating?

• 6:33Speaker 01

  Probably the best version I ever was of myself. I would like to think that was the best version and the next time is the best version. I only had one girlfriend before everything changed in my life. To me, like, the truest, most innocent, realist, like, sweetest. It was high school.

• 6:55Alex Cooper?

  Did you ever through your fame, wonder if you should reach back out to her?

• 6:59Speaker 01

  I did re, I did reach back out a few times.

• 7:01Alex Cooper?

  Cuz you were looking for what?

• 7:06Speaker 01

  Hmm, maybe to bring that part of my life into the new part of my life. But by that point, she was married and had kids and I thought that's a separate chapter or that thing in my life was a separate chapter. I don't have to talk to people to know that I'm okay, that we're okay.

• 7:25Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 7:25Speaker 01

  I think that's telepathic.

• 7:27Alex Cooper?

  I liked you said that at dinner, just something about like, there's certain people in your life that you don't need to be in their life anymore, but it's really cool when you have a mutual understanding, whether it's an ex, whether it's someone that was your friend at some point, to just be like, we don't need to talk to know, like, we're good.

• 7:42Speaker 01

  We're alright.

• 7:43Alex Cooper?

  We don't talk anymore for whatever reason, but like.

• 7:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, there are a couple little outstanding, still vibrating things.

• 7:50Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 7:50Speaker 01

  I would love to get to 100% closure. I don't think that's realistic in anyone's life. Do you have someone in your life that it's always gonna be incomplete?

• 7:58Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 7:59Speaker 01

  I think everyone has a couple of those, but for the most part, it's been important for me to move on into my adult years in my life with the peace of like, we're cool, we don't have to talk.

• 8:11Alex Cooper?

  Um, okay, so we're about to leave high school, because I'm just kind of going through the journey of you.

• 8:16Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 8:16Alex Cooper?

  You performed at your high school graduation.

• 8:19Speaker 01

  Yes, I did.

• 8:19Alex Cooper?

  Were people nice to you then, or no?

• 8:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was right around the time where I started to reveal myself as a guitar player and I had put, I was in a band and we'd written a couple songs. We'd written a song for graduation. I didn't actually graduate at that ceremony, so I didn't get enough credits to graduate. I had to go to summer school. And so it was a very deep moment to play that song and walk off the field while the rest of my friends graduated and I walked home.

• 8:49Alex Cooper?

  Okay, but just so everyone knows.

• 8:51Speaker 01

  How bluesy is that?

• 8:52Alex Cooper?

  Six years later, you're a Grammy winning artist.

• 8:56Speaker 01

  This part freaks me out. Chronologically speaking, this part is maybe one of the only aspects of my life that truly blows my mind.

• 9:05Alex Cooper?

  Why?

• 9:06Speaker 01

  Because it's such a short period of time that felt longer to me. I was, I graduated in 1995 and six years later, I had, I was playing arenas. You know, at that point, I was playing clubs, but I had an album out and that would end up winning Grammys. And that was six, that was six years.

• 9:28Alex Cooper?

  So it didn't really fucking matter that you had to go to summer school. You're like, I didn't even need to graduate.

• 9:33Speaker 01

  And, and you know what I always think now is like, there are people who get branded misfit, loser, you know,

• 9:41Speaker 01

  you know, in some way, sort of developmentally disabled. No, they're not. They're on some other track that they have no school for, you know?

• 9:49Alex Cooper?

  I love that you're saying that too, because it goes back to what you said of like, I was sitting in that class and I knew I wasn't supposed to be there, but I had to be there.

• 9:56Speaker 01

  I was writing lyrics.

• 9:56Alex Cooper?

  It's interesting to hear you say like, it's so crazy to me that six years after I graduate college, I'm winning a Grammy for Your Body is a Wonderland. You were dating someone at the time that you're writing this iconic song, which-

• 10:08Speaker 01

  No, I wasn't.

• 10:09Alex Cooper?

  You weren't?

• 10:10Speaker 01

  No, that was about my first girlfriend.

• 10:13Alex Cooper?

  Wait, what?

• 10:14Speaker 01

  That was about the feeling, which I think was already sort of nostalgic. I was 21 when I wrote that song and I was nostalgic for being 16.

• 10:25Alex Cooper?

  I thought it was about a different celebrity.

• 10:28Speaker 01

  No, that's, that's one of those things where people just sort of form that idea. It gets reinforced over the years. No, no, no. I had never met a celebrity when I wrote that song.

• 10:40Alex Cooper?

  Wait, and did your high school girlfriend know you wrote that about her?

• 10:45Speaker 01

  That's a good question. Maybe, maybe she didn't. Maybe she didn't.

• 10:48Alex Cooper?

  To this day?

• 10:48Speaker 01

  To this day, maybe she didn't. Yeah. So if you were my high, my one and only high school girlfriend, that was actually about you. And this happens a lot with songs, right? So I've made a rule, I guess I always had a rule that I would never tell anyone. What's, I don't, I don't write songs about people. I don't write them for people or about people. I might use a relationship that inspires me to write something. So yeah, even if I was writing a song because of someone, it's like, that goes away and I'm left with the song. So I'm not, I don't like telling anyone that a song is about somebody.

• 11:33Speaker 01

  Because most of the time it's not. And it takes people away from themselves because they're just visualizing who I'm writing about. But the songs come out, they mean things to people. Sometimes people think it's about one person, other, sometimes it hurts the song.

• 11:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:47Speaker 01

  Sometimes the song doesn't do as well because people go, well, he's just petty. And I go, it's got nothing to do with that. But I'd much rather keep the sanctity of these songs intact and have a couple of them, kind of burn a couple of them because people think it's about one person and it's not. Because it's really important, the most important thing in my life now is, are my songs.

• 12:08Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 12:09Speaker 01

  And so when I go play songs now, I'm playing songs that I see people in the crowd are reliving their life. It ain't about anyone but the people I'm singing to. It's now about their college years. It's about their sick family member who died. It's about their fight with cancer and how they beat it. It's, these songs now for people are these waypoints in their lives. It's not about any one person. You know, the first three, three records in my life was just like proving, proving, and you should. And then you start hearing people tell you, uh, thank you. Your music got me through a dark time. That's so much deeper. I mean, I definitely think everyone should have those prove it years and enjoy them.

• 12:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:50Speaker 01

  Because I definitely did. Like, now do you see? Now do you see? And I had a lot of that. I had a lot that I had to get out.

• 13:00Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 13:00Speaker 01

  When I first started, and it was obnoxious to them, and I get it. And I think it explains a lot of younger people who have just hit the scene, who you're like, this person is fucking obnoxious. I have a lot of grace for it because you never know how hard someone had to punch to get out of their town, or their family, or a relat-, you know, and, and you just, I think that's where people were like, I got the douchebag title a lot. And I was trying incredibly hard. But I had been trying incredibly hard since I first played the guitar to get where I needed to get. I couldn't get the message like, John, they like you just fine.

• 13:39Alex Cooper?

  You can calm down.

• 13:40Speaker 01

  They like you just fine.

• 13:41Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 13:42Speaker 01

  You know?

• 13:43Alex Cooper?

  I really appreciate you explaining it that way because I, I now too have a different opinion, especially maybe in the music industry or, you know, actors and actresses, like, the way that maybe people are being perceived online and the way they're acting, probably is really not who they are. It's they're trying to elevate to get the attention, to get the approval. And eventually, as you see people in their careers, and this is, you don't even have to be famous to have this.

• 14:09Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 14:10Alex Cooper?

  You can be doing it at your job, you can be doing it socially. You're trying to make a name for yourself, you're trying to have a presence. And it probably feels inauthentic, but you want to be seen, you want to be heard, you want to feel accepted. And that can lead to you feeling like, what, am I even being myself right now? So I respect that.

• 14:25Speaker 01

  That's, thank you. I mean, that's what everyone goes through. Everyone, by the time they grow up, have grace for other people on the way up as they fight through those things. The people who are the most vicious are the people who have yet to ask for grace, because they don't need it yet. Because they still have this view of the world like, they're in total control and they're going to make all the right decisions for the rest of their lives, until they don't. And, and, and I feel like that's just something everyone passes through.

• 14:55Alex Cooper?

  What do you cherish the most about the rise of your career?

• 15:01Speaker 01

  Oh, that's a great question.

• 15:04Speaker 01

  The rise or where I am now?

• 15:08Speaker 01

  I'll tell you, I'll answer both.

• 15:09Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 15:09Speaker 01

  The rise is that it was during a really cool time. Um, I don't think I would have had the same success I have now if I had begun three years ago. I think I'd be trying and trying and trying uh on social media and trying to get things out there. I mean, there was just so fewer people doing things that you automatically had more people paying attention. So I'm really lucky that I came up when there were just fewer cars on the road in terms of, you know, making songs and having people pay attention to you and being seen. And now where I am now, the greatest thing is that any idea that I have, I can do.

• 15:54Speaker 01

  Any idea that I have, I feel like if there was a song idea that I had for any musician in the world, I'd have a pretty good chance of them at least listening to it. And that's really interesting to me. That, that to me is the greatest thing is like the songs I already have that I'll take for the rest of my life, but also any idea that I have, I think that there, any musician in the world would want to go like, I want to hear what Mare has for me. So I feel like that's the idea that I could bring anything to life that came to mind. That's the ultimate for me.

• 16:31Alex Cooper?

  I'm interested, so as your rise to fame, how did your interactions with women change?

• 16:40Speaker 01

  Oh, that's a, that's a good question. And I think I saw

• 16:47Speaker 01

  the approval of women as being something that was like, each time somebody

• 16:55Speaker 01

  liked what I did, I felt like because of the way that I was brought up, that that was the only time that was going to happen.

• 17:03Speaker 01

  And so

• 17:06Speaker 01

  I feel like I was made to believe, growing up, that if somebody liked me, that was pretty much an accident and that should be capitalized on. And so I felt very deeply when somebody liked me. Very deeply. I think, uh, look, you know, the elephant in the room is that I'm on a show that caters to women and I have a couple of, uh, nameplates on me like Lothario and Womanizer and stuff and, and I think, look, that is what that is. That's the role I play on the big TV show that I didn't write. That's fine. Maybe I had a hand in it or something, but,

• 17:47Speaker 01

  um, I think people would be surprised to know that it was less me going like, you know, the meme of the guy behind the tree? It was less this and more like this. Me? Uh, y- y- yeah, you know, because it was, it was always set forth to me that like, um, that shouldn't happen.

• 18:10Alex Cooper?

  Right. Like without dissecting into your childhood, the, a woman's approval and attention to you, clearly there was an insecurity within you that you perk up and would fight till the end to make sure that you're getting to experience that as long as they're willing to give it to you. And you're like waiting for someone to give you the approval and that like, breathe, breathe life into you essentially and you loved a woman giving you attention or validation.

• 18:43Speaker 01

  Uh, most of that is true and it's so true. It's like, I, I can't even, I won't even flat spin about that after this is over. I won't even, that's, some things are too true for me to get upset about. That's remarkably true, what you just said. Except it wa- it was a little less overt in terms of me being like, yeah, keep going, keep going.

• 19:04Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 19:05Speaker 01

  It, because I did invest myself. I, I, I did invest myself in relationships.

• 19:10Alex Cooper?

  Well, and I think we can also agree, and we talked about this a little bit at dinner, like, There's, you have perspective now, right?

• 19:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:17Alex Cooper?

  Like, we can wrap things into a bow now. It's like, oh, I see what I was doing in high school. Why I was so insecure and I was looking for the guy's validation. And then, like, I can now see what I was doing. In the moment, you have the feelings, but you can't put it all into a box. You now can be like, I get it now. I get what I was doing. I see the interactions I had. And now I see this theme, and now I'm able, in later in my life, to be like, whoa, that's why I did what I did.

• 19:44Speaker 01

  Also known as growing up.

• 19:46Alex Cooper?

  What a fucking concept.

• 19:48Speaker 01

  Also known as growing up. And like, like I said, like, the people who are gonna understand this interview the most are the people who've had that. Either been on the receiving end or the giving end of that, you know? It's the people who haven't had that yet, who will probably have the loudest reactions because they don't understand it yet. And we all meet up at the end of this. At the end of these crazy twenties and thirties, we all meet up. And I meet people, I can't remember if they were mad at me, or if I was mad at them. Because we all meet up after this craziness, and we all go through our own stuff, you know? We all meet up at the end, and I, and we go, hey, how you doing?

• 20:28Alex Cooper?

  This is, I'm sure, a hard question to answer. What is it like, try your best?

• 20:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:36Alex Cooper?

  For almost everyone in the world to know who you are?

• 20:44Speaker 01

  Um, because I don't really live exposed to all of it. It, I don't quite feel it, and I'm okay with it because it's linked to something that I have to do anyway. I get to do this thing. If, if I'm having a day where I don't like any of this stuff, I can pick up a guitar and listen to myself play and go, that's why you do it. So the fact that this is all linked to something that I do objectively well, that I can listen to, and I could write a song, I could play a song, I can play the guitar. That's what anchors me to all this stuff. All of this is happening because I play the guitar, write music, and sing in a way that people want to pay attention to.

• 21:30Speaker 01

  I can't imagine what this would be like if I didn't have that grounding element. And as I get older, I have so much empathy for people who are really well-known, but don't quite have something to hold on to like a buoy. You know, my life gives me this buoy, which is, I can write a song, I can play guitar. It's tough even that way, but it's not like I'm famous from a thing that happened to me, or a thing I was a part of, that I was no longer a part of because the person who hired me for the thing didn't want me anymore. So, it's very stable. I've come to terms with the fact that it's never gonna be another way.

• 22:13Speaker 01

  And most of it now, because I don't really interface with people for anything other than music. For the most part, it's like, I have manufactured irrelevance in the parts of my career that I want to be irrelevant. That is really scary to do. It's really scary to come off of that loop, when you're in a news cycle, news cycle, news cycle. To really go, I wanna, I wanna shut down this part, that part, that part, and that part. And feel like you're dying inside because those parts are going away. Now, all I have left is like, people who wanna talk to me wanna talk to me about music I make. People aren't, I'm not trending on Twitter just because I got on a flight. And it was tough, it was tough to be like, yeah, you're gonna play music.

• 22:56Speaker 01

  You're gonna play music and you're gonna put it all into that and not day trading how people feel about you.

• 23:04Alex Cooper?

  So you're saying that you didn't essentially play the role of the guy in Hollywood, the singer. Everything didn't work well, that people started, like you said, like people started writing headlines about you.

• 23:15Speaker 01

  I didn't deserve the role.

• 23:17Alex Cooper?

  Why do you think that?

• 23:18Speaker 01

  Because it wasn't made for me. I'm the musician guy who writes songs that are like kind of hits. And I thought that I was just through my own manipulation of the thing, was an A-lister. And I was going to, I'm an A, I'm an A-list celebrity, it's like, no you're not. But I had this moment in my twenties where I thought, Well, this is where I belong. This is where I should be. And obviously it wasn't because I didn't really handle it very well. You know, I was like, didn't handle it very well. And so then that all kind of shut down and I got a chance to start it up again. And I haven't ever been happier in my life. I'm known for what I do.

• 23:56Alex Cooper?

  You're kind of essentially alluding to like, you fucked up in your twenties. Or that's

• 24:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, late twenties, early thirties.

• 24:02Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 24:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:03Alex Cooper?

  And that kind of set you on a different course

• 24:05Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 24:05Alex Cooper?

  Of

• 24:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:07Alex Cooper?

  I've got a, okay.

• 24:08Speaker 01

  But a more natural course. I'm only doing what I should be doing. And, and I think there's a lot of people who are stuck in that loop of like, not being where they want to be, but not wanting to be forgotten. And it's scary, the idea that if you pulled away, you'd be forgotten. That if you, if you got off Twitter, you'd be forgotten. That if you didn't throw yourself into the mix every day, you'd be forgotten. It's beautiful to be forgotten in the ways you ultimately don't want to be known. You know?

• 24:38Alex Cooper?

  What is an experience that shaped who you are that very few people know about?

• 24:50Speaker 01

  That's a, that's a good one.

• 25:09Alex Cooper?

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• 25:52Alex Cooper?

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• 28:04Alex Cooper?

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• 28:51Speaker 01

  Anxiety, deep.

• 28:55Speaker 01

  Anxiety before there was a social media that could tell you what anxiety was.

• 29:00Speaker 01

  Not to say it makes it any easier, but anxiety feeds off of feeling isolated by it. And so it's a little bit easier now when you can read other people's experiences and go, oh, okay. I mean, having anxiety in mid 90s, late 90s, it's like, you think you're going crazy. You know, and so that to me gave me so much more depth, so much more depth. Those feelings, those feelings of panic, those feelings of the walls are closing in. They come with questions. They come with every question. Why, why can't I sleep? What's going on in the universe? What's going on in my body? Turns into hypochondria. How many, is my heart beating faster?

• 29:44Speaker 01

  Is my, is my throat closing? Why do I feel my pulse in my ear? And you're on WebMD looking up everything. And whatever that is also makes you super keyed in to yourself in a way that for me, I wrote a lot of, a lot of my music came from wanting answers after feeling really, really lost because I lost my weight just in my head.

• 30:09Speaker 01

  It got to the point where when I would have an anxious moment, I'd be like, well, here comes a song. Do you ever get that?

• 30:17Alex Cooper?

  Totally, but I think there's points where I was worried that good content sometimes comes at your lowest and

• 30:28Alex Cooper?

  it's really hard to describe unless you're a creator where you're wondering if you're self-destructing to like, you're gonna write a great sad song if you go through a great breakup. I'm gonna have an incredible episode if I break up with my partner. But at what cost for you as an individual outside of your craft and your job? Is that extremely detrimental to just your life?

• 30:54Speaker 01

  I never, and I can say this with great confidence. I never tried to induce an experience just to write a song, ever in my life, ever. I've never thought if I do this, I'll get material. I promise you, I would have absolutely, in those moments, as a 20, 21, 22, 23 year old guy, traded every song I was going to write to not have that feeling. No doubt about it, no doubt about, I would have said, take all the songs I'll ever write, stop this feeling from happening right now. And for whatever that feeling was, it just focused

• 31:37Speaker 01

  my eyes on the important things. What's going on in life? What is, that's where these lyrics come from, you know, that's where my first three records are from. They're about managing anxiety. Why Georgia? Why am I fucking here? Am I living it right? Like, why am I here? You know, there's a song, "Not Myself" on the first record, "Would You Want Me When..." That's all about having a panic attack in front of somebody. Suppose I said, I, you know, would you love me? I don't remember the lyrics, but like, "Would you want me when I'm not myself?" Like, you ever have a panic attack on a date?

• 32:16Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 32:17Speaker 01

  Oh, man, that's how you bond with someone right there.

• 32:22Alex Cooper?

  John.

• 32:22Speaker 01

  That's how you.

• 32:23Alex Cooper?

  How do you often have a.

• 32:24Speaker 01

  Yes. Well, I mean, they make things you could take now for that, but I, yeah, I'm.

• 32:30Alex Cooper?

  No.

• 32:30Speaker 01

  I want to, okay, so I went on a date. I was, I was going on a date in my, my senior year in high school with like one of the prettiest girls. Couldn't believe that I'd gotten to the point where like this girl wanted to go to the movies with me. I didn't drive until I was out of high school. So I was riding shotgun. So right there, I'm being driven by the girl I'm going on the date with. By the time we got to the movie theater.

• 32:55Speaker 01

  And I was eating like Tums because I had such bad nervous stomach. This is before like you figured out benzodiazepines and I was eating Tums, stomach ache. And before we even got out of the car, I was like, I have a stomach ache. Can you drive me home? And she drove me all the way home and I got home and as soon as I got home, I was like, ah, I'm deeply uncomfortable in, in, in a lot of situations. And so for a really long time, I would resist going out with anybody because it would make me so nervous that my stomach, I would just be, it would be terrible.

• 33:32Alex Cooper?

  This is why I love sitting down with people because when you think John Mayer, you can get any woman you want, right? In, in media land.

• 33:41Speaker 01

  You could get any man you wanted.

• 33:43Alex Cooper?

  Thanks, John.

• 33:44Speaker 01

  I was saying, being a famous guy is like being a hot girl.

• 33:47Alex Cooper?

  Oh, that's so interesting.

• 33:48Speaker 01

  Being a famous guy is like being a hot girl.

• 33:50Alex Cooper?

  Okay. Well, let me bring up my next question. Okay. People have been obsessed with who you've dated in your career. And if you're going through like the tabloids and everything you, it's like John Mayer is the it guy, right? And recently you joked that you're America's ex-boyfriend. Why did America break up with you?

• 34:12Speaker 01

  That's, that's my way of taking some of what I think is the air out of a, of a, you know, that's like elephant hunting in the room.

• 34:21Alex Cooper?

  I, I like, I like the statement.

• 34:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, that's how they see it.

• 34:27Speaker 01

  Bottom line, I'm one guy, living one life. I don't need 300 million people in my life to agree that I'm an okay person. Most people, until the dawn of the internet, needed about eight. I've got multiples of eight, which makes me a very happy and lucky human being. I only need to meet one more person that I want to spend the rest of my life with. So I do not need to have this worldwide consensus that I'm an okay guy.

• 34:56Alex Cooper?

  What is your type? Right? Hot, successful, makes more money than you?

• 35:02Speaker 01

  That's really funny. Well, I mean, every relationship I've ever been in was devoted to the idea that this could go the distance. My entire life, today included, if you told me that I could have a great two months with someone, but it would end on the first day of the third month, I would not be interested. I have always sought potential for long-term relationship. I know what my mistakes were, looking back, not worth talking about. We all, as long as you do the accounting, as long as you do your homework as a human being, as you stand in the shower and you waste a little water and you go, "Yeah, I really meant well, but I did do that."

• 35:47Speaker 01

  Or, "Yeah, they meant well, but they did do that." And you go, "Wouldn't do that again, I would approach that a different way." Maybe even from the beginning, maybe even from day one, seeing them across the room, who knows? As long as you're aware of what those things are and how you can apply that to the next relationship, I don't see a problem with any past relationships ending badly.

• 36:11Alex Cooper?

  I agree.

• 36:12Speaker 01

  I just don't. I, mine are different because they are well-known. And I have not had a relationship in a lot of years. And it's funny how, I think I started to notice like people would look at pictures of hot dudes on the internet and be like, "I love this guy." And be like, "That picture's from 2002." You know what I mean? And it helps me understand that we tend to hold on to the part of someone's history that we that sort of revealed itself the most, or was the brightest, the most easy to visualize. And so I still, look, I'm still, in a lot of people's minds, in a good way, doing something I'm not doing anymore. Whether they're attached to a record, or a tour I was on.

• 36:55Speaker 01

  They're still wanna share YouTube videos of a tour I did in 2014, or whatever. And there are still people who go, "Oh yeah, he's the he's the man whore," or whatever, you know? But it's not on each and every person to update their knowledge of me every year, you know what I mean?

• 37:15Alex Cooper?

  But it's like you haven't updated your Facebook status.

• 37:17Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 37:17Alex Cooper?

  So everyone's looking at you like 2009.

• 37:19Speaker 01

  That's actually a brilliant observation. It's like, the world creates my Facebook status. But, but, so here's, here's why that's okay. If somebody gets you a little bit wrong, if you said something, and someone recounts it, and they get one word wrong, and it makes something sweet sound not sweet, you're gonna jump out and go, "That is not what I said. Here's how I said it." You're gonna fine tune that thing that you're being misunderstood for. There comes a point where if you're so misunderstood, it's almost like they're thinking about a different person. So the me that most people who don't know me are thinking about is so far away from me that I don't actually feel

• 38:02Speaker 01

  I don't actually feel like disrupted in any way by it. They're talking about a character, or a thing that's been like an artifact, right? Like, this one little glitch that sort of grew and became this other thing. I don't feel the need, and I hope you don't think this is like me going like, "Let me set the record straight."

• 38:21Alex Cooper?

  No, no, no, I meant, you're just taking us through your psyche.

• 38:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, being, being, being misunderstood at this age is nowhere near as painful as it was being misunderstood in my twenties. And a lot of the shit that I did in my twenties was an attempt to reset the misunderstanding, and I made it worse. Someone said to me years ago, "You're trying to eat the monster that's trying to eat you." I've never heard a more true thing said to me, and I look at other people right now and I go, Elon Musk, you're trying to eat the monster that's trying to eat you. I see it and I have grace for other people trying to do it. We haven't learned that retreat is an option. Retreat is an option.

• 39:06Speaker 01

  I don't know where this idea of stubborn fight to the death stuff came from. You'll lose everything.

• 39:11Alex Cooper?

  It's really interesting to hear you talk about it because what I think we can also get to, and you don't have to be famous to have this, being misunderstood. There is something inside of all of us at one point when you start to feel that. It's a really exhausting, scary feeling and you really want to fight to correct everything. If you, if there's a rumor about you in high school, if you, if something happens at your job and people see you the certain way, you start to spiral. And then there's that moment where all of a sudden, after so much fighting, so much clawing, so much trying to eat them up, right?

• 39:46Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 39:46Alex Cooper?

  You're like at peace with like, I don't give a fuck because you're good with yourself.

• 39:50Speaker 01

  Your reality is stronger than their ability to distort it. And at first, when it's not, it's one of the most sickening, frightening, painful things to have your reality distorted. And if you're smart theoretically, you start coming up with a plan to engineer how to undistort the reality that's been distorted. And that's the beginning of the failure because your behavior stops being natural and starts being what I did. If you're going to distort me, I'm going to distort me.

• 40:30Speaker 01

  I lost myself in that. The idea of I'm going to be more like you think I am as a way to somehow phase cancel what it is, as if playing into it would make everyone in the world who shares my exact thinking go, oh, he can't be that.

• 40:47Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 40:47Speaker 01

  Because he's acting like that, he's in on it. So that didn't work and that didn't work and that, and it was like. I look back sometimes, I go like, you could have retreated and nobody knows how to retreat because the stakes are so high. The stakes are so high. You've got half of the world going, you love it when you do that. And the other half of the world going, you're losing your mind. And you go, well, I know one thing, can't give up now. And it's like, but you could. And six months from now, you would be so happy that you did.

• 41:17Alex Cooper?

  I feel especially with social media, you're trying so hard to prove yourself on this platform that's fake to begin with. And I really feel like it's helpful to talk through like, there is an option to retreat and you don't have to post that photo to prove you were at that place. You don't have to post this photo and edit it so you look a certain way, even though you don't look like that way in person. Like, there is just some extreme peace in allowing yourself to enjoy what's in front of you and the people that know you and care about you and your friends and your family. Like, I've been subjected to it where I'm trying to prove that I'm not this girl and I'm not this girl. And then all of a sudden, I'm like, I don't even know these people. What am I doing?

• 41:59Speaker 01

  And you're losing your center point. And I also think that people need to go through that. A lot of times, people think that the stuff that didn't go right in their life was a mistake. And I don't think it's a mistake because I don't think there's any other way around it. I don't even look at it like a problem. It's like, that's just the way it has to go.

• 42:22Alex Cooper?

  Have you ever been in love?

• 42:42Alex Cooper?

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• 43:24Alex Cooper?

  But recognizing what they are and learning how to let them go can be so important. It's literally the first step towards creating meaningful change. And Therapy with BetterHelp, one of the leading online therapy platforms, can be a space to explore where those patterns come from and develop healthier habits and mindsets for a more fulfilling life. With over 30,000 therapists worldwide, BetterHelp has served millions of people globally. BetterHelp makes it easier to fit therapy into your routine with flexible ways to connect that work for different schedules and lifestyles. Plus, BetterHelp therapists have at least three years and 1,000 hours on-hand experience and hold all required education, training, and certifications. You can meet with a range of professionals

• 44:07Alex Cooper?

  from marriage and family therapists to social workers and counselors. So, Daddy Gang, if you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/daddy. That's betterh-e-l-p.com/daddy. Have you ever been in love?

• 44:28Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 44:29Alex Cooper?

  You're currently single?

• 44:30Speaker 01

  Currently single.

• 44:32Alex Cooper?

  Looking back at past relationship is relationships, is there anything that you have looked for of something of like a theme of what you want to work on within yourself moving forward?

• 44:45Speaker 01

  That's a hot question. I don't know yet because I haven't gotten, I never really got to the part of relationship that was the smooth sailing part. I have a feeling when I do, I'm gonna have a lot to work on. But I'll be excited to work on it because it won't be that incredibly fundamental stuff of like, how do we, how do we stay together? You know, like, I'm always supremely impressed by couples that I know who are having a hard time but haven't even considered breaking up. That's hot. Like, that to me is the hottest.

• 45:30Speaker 01

  Someone complains about their girlfriend or their wife and you're, and you're like... You start to allude to them wanting to go somewhere else and like, what are you talking about? No, I'm not going anywhere else. We're just having a hard time.

• 45:42Alex Cooper?

  I don't want that.

• 45:43Speaker 01

  And I, I have a feeling that um, I'm going to be ready to cop to a little bit of intellectual control issues. Only on an intellectual side. Like I can be,

• 45:57Speaker 01

  I can be, I'm trying to be a little more heart overhead, but I can be a little heady.

• 46:03Speaker 01

  And I think it's cool to say to someone, this is my thing. This is what I'm going to work on. And I love the idea of sharing that with someone and them saying, you're doing it again. And you go, I'm doing it again, sorry.

• 46:14Alex Cooper?

  What is your dating style? Like, and how has it evolved? Like, what are you like?

• 46:19Speaker 01

  I, I don't know. I don't date that, that much. I look at it like this. Dating is no longer a codified activity for me. It doesn't exist in any kind of,

• 46:33Speaker 01

  it, it's, it's not patterned anymore. I quit drinking like six years ago, so I don't drink anymore. I don't have the liquid courage.

• 46:41Alex Cooper?

  How do you feel about that? How has that changed your dating life?

• 46:43Speaker 01

  You have to be honest. You have to express yourself. You have to be really glaringly honest. Here's who I am. Here's what I like. Here's what makes me nervous. Here's what I reject as an idea in relationship. I don't know about, you know, you have to express your anxieties. You can't, you can't just walk over them by drinking. You have to be like, here's what I'm anxious about. And when someone in life

• 47:12Speaker 01

  accommodates your anxiety, that's bonding.

• 47:15Alex Cooper?

  Right. Kind of cutting past the, the surface level bullshit and being like, can we connect on a way that feels cozy and like we know each other past just like, hey, so like,

• 47:26Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 47:26Alex Cooper?

  Where did you grow up for?

• 47:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, where you, you're done with giving the um, the free trial.

• 47:31Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 47:31Speaker 01

  There comes a moment where your free trial runs out.

• 47:34Alex Cooper?

  How quickly will someone know that you're into them?

• 47:39Speaker 01

  It takes me a while. It takes me a while.

• 47:44Speaker 01

  I think the way to my heart now, as I get older, is I don't know that I have like five hour dates in me. I don't have these deep excursions at a table that go into like this sort of job interview vibe. I would rather have someone, I'll be honest with you. I've thought about this before. I would love someone to say, hey, I'm coming over to your house for an hour and a half. I'm bringing my laptop. Just need the wifi code. I'll be on the couch. I'm not trying to take up all your space. I have a really good feeling about you. I don't want to do the thing where I start to make you feel claustrophobic because I really have a good feeling about you.

• 48:26Speaker 01

  Give me the wifi code. I'll eat one of your yogurts. Talk to me when you want to talk to me. I'd be like, I don't want to do that.

• 48:32Alex Cooper?

  Do you know how many people are gonna DM you and be like, John, can I have the wifi code? I'm gonna just come over.

• 48:38Speaker 01

  Maybe I said that just for, I mean, but, but I actually think more people would find love sooner if it was less intense exposure for shorter periods of time, but more frequently.

• 48:53Alex Cooper?

  Just settling down freak you out?

• 48:55Speaker 01

  Nope.

• 48:57Speaker 01

  This is the part that always shocks people. They go, you don't want to get married? Of course I want to get married. I'm just, you're not gonna see me go on a

• 49:07Speaker 01

  battery of dates with different people. I am a pocket listing. I'm not really on, what is it, the MLS? All the heavy lifting's done in my learning what I need to learn. And just in terms of entering in a relationship, I can't wait for someone to be mad at me because I said that I would take the dry cleaning in. And they were going to until I said I would, but then I didn't. And if you're gonna tell me that you're gonna take the dry cleaning, you have to do that because I would love that. I would love that because that would suggest that we're into something deep, meaningful, and secure.

• 49:46Alex Cooper?

  It goes back to what you said, your friends. You're like, okay, so you're gonna leave? And they're like, fuck no. Like, we're in this.

• 49:53Speaker 01

  Nothing's hotter to me than conflict resolution. Conflict resolution, I am horny for conflict resolution. In the middle of an argument, we're having an argument and I go, wait.

• 50:09Speaker 01

  I do do that. I did do that. I'm sorry. You're right. I didn't, nope, you're right. I didn't get it. I do do that. I'm sorry.

• 50:18Alex Cooper?

  What's something that is currently keeping you up at night?

• 50:24Speaker 01

  What's something that is currently keeping me up at night?

• 50:29Speaker 01

  Metaphorically keeping me up at night?

• 50:31Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 50:36Speaker 01

  Whether I should put out a whole record as my next release or song at a time.

• 50:44Speaker 01

  Can't tell. Put a record out, you get a week. Comes and goes. Put a song at a time out and you get repeated shots. Repeated looks at the ball.

• 50:59Alex Cooper?

  So why wouldn't you do that?

• 51:00Speaker 01

  What's that?

• 51:01Alex Cooper?

  So why wouldn't you do that?

• 51:02Speaker 01

  I think I'd probably put a song at a time out. I think.

• 51:05Alex Cooper?

  I think that feels right.

• 51:06Speaker 01

  I think song at a time is right for this next record.

• 51:08Alex Cooper?

  Like, I would love a record personally, so I can just binge it, like a little Netflix moment. But I get what you're saying is like you get to kinda...

• 51:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm not on a label anymore and so that's kinda keeps me up at night. But the next thing I do would seem to be

• 51:24Speaker 01

  would seem to be, I hope it was small enough that a camera couldn't catch it.

• 51:28Alex Cooper?

  You literally go, "I'm not with a label anymore."

• 51:30Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that was badly timed. That was badly timed.

• 51:36Alex Cooper?

  What's up, bitch?

• 51:37Speaker 01

  I'm not with a label anymore. Can I also get a nail file? So I can, can I get a nail file and say, "I'm not with the label anymore." No, I'm sorry, I'm deeply concerned about, um, anything being on this dark sweater.

• 51:50Alex Cooper?

  All looking good.

• 51:51Speaker 01

  Thank you. Being, not being on a label feels a little bit like the next thing I do, I have to prove myself.

• 51:58Alex Cooper?

  Can you explain, what are, how is your, um, writing going? Like, you write everything.

• 52:03Speaker 01

  I write everything. I mean, that part's really fun, looking back on it, to have 100% ownership of the songs I've written. But it's, I mean, it's hugely time consuming.

• 52:14Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 52:14Speaker 01

  Hugely time consuming. And as you get older, time gets more valuable, which makes this, you know, this deep diving that I do feel a little harder because no matter how old you get, this stuff still takes a year to write.

• 52:31Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 52:32Speaker 01

  You know? When you're one guy and you wanna sound like you're five guys, you've gotta be... Yourself five different ways and you can't do that all in one day. So the way you make music that sounds really complex is to hit it repeatedly on different days with different mindsets.

• 52:51Speaker 01

  Which takes a very long time, very long time. You write a whole song and you'll go, "Oh, I only needed that one verse, which is actually the chorus to this thing and that dies and then this moves over to here." And I would never do it any other way. I'd rather not put a record out than fall off in that way.

• 53:08Alex Cooper?

  And when you're saying this, like, are, do you go to a recording studio?

• 53:11Speaker 01

  I go to a recording studio every day, nine to five. I have a job. Without it, I would fall apart.

• 53:19Alex Cooper?

  How many people are in that studio with you?

• 53:21Speaker 01

  One or two.

• 53:23Alex Cooper?

  Wow.

• 53:23Speaker 01

  It's just me and an engineer and an assistant sometimes. Guitar tech comes in and out.

• 53:29Speaker 01

  And I go home, I think about what I did that day, how I can make it better. I'm always writing. I bring a new thing in. Is this a thing? No. Is this a thing? Yes. Actually, no. Is this a thing? Yes. Actually, hell yes. They're all different experiences and when you win, you go home feeling like a god.

• 53:54Speaker 01

  "Did anyone see what I just brought to life today? I cannot believe I still have it. I still have it. This is incredible. This is incredible." And then you have to go write another one. You go write another one and you're stuck in the same slog that every other song was and you go, "I'm garbage. I don't have it anymore. I'm out. I'm done." And you'll find another one. "I'm on top of the world." Sometimes I'll write a song and it'll be really good and I'll go, "Just don't write another one for two or three days. Just relax." Because you're gonna only be as happy as the last thing that frustrated you.

• 54:25Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 54:25Speaker 01

  You know?

• 54:26Alex Cooper?

  What is it like, what does it feel like to be on stage, performing in front of thousands and thousands of people?

• 54:35Speaker 01

  It's its own dimension. It's its own dimension. I will go on record as saying, I'm really different than most musicians in that I don't, and I'm gonna have to finish this thought because it's gonna sound a little scary if I don't. I don't feed off the energy of the crowd. It is not a drug to me. You hear people say when the lights go down, you hear that noise, it's like comes in me like a drug. And I know that's how most people feel. That's not how I feel. Every night before I go on stage, I go, "Okay, alright, here we go." Because I'm a little nervous to do that. Not that I don't think I'm gonna be any good at it, but just the act of it is foreign. And then I'll get on stage, "Okay, alright."

• 55:18Speaker 01

  And then somewhere in the middle of the first song, I'm gone. I'm gone, having the time of my life. The one thing people don't understand about that job, the entire time I'm up there, I am worried that they're not having as good a time as I could give them. Not worried to the point where it's unpleasant, but it is a constant consideration. Do they want this song? Or do they want a different song? Are they waiting for this song to be over? Or do they want the next song? Am I playing like, if I had to make a setlist right now, I'd hate it because I have so much music from so many different areas of music that I don't know what anybody's exactly wants.

• 56:00Speaker 01

  So I have to start writing a setlist that would disappoint people equally and satisfy them equally. And so I only want people to go, "That was great." I only want them to be happy. So I spend a lot of time while I'm playing going like, "Do they want this one?" And the answer is always, "Yeah, man, they want those songs." But while I'm playing, it's a very strange mix of like, hyper confidence and like, the person I really am, which is like, "I hope you like this." As I'm like ascending through the cosmos, playing guitar, I'm like, "I don't know if you like this one or not, but I hope you do."

• 56:37Alex Cooper?

  It is the holidays. This is a holiday special. I've never done this before. Are you a New Year's resolution kind of guy?

• 56:44Speaker 01

  Vaguely. I don't, um, I also think like, I've done well enough in my life that I don't have to like overhaul everything as I go through. Yeah, I'm a New Year's resolution guy. Are you asking me what that might be? Do you have one?

• 57:02Alex Cooper?

  No, not yet. I'm gonna come up with that on vacation.

• 57:06Speaker 01

  This is part maybe of the New Year's resolution, which is to just

• 57:12Speaker 01

  do things that are a little uncharacteristic, what you find uncharacteristic every once in a while. And so this is really me going like, okay, this is out of character and that's okay. I know it's out of character. It's gonna be okay. If I say a thing that the news cycle picks up and gives me a headache for two or three days, I know I'm gonna be okay. So there might actually be something that exists that I didn't see coming. That's really nice for people to go, oh, I never really heard him talk in long form, you know, so.

• 57:45Alex Cooper?

  We're kicking off your New Year's resolution with you coming on Call Her Daddy?

• 57:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:49Alex Cooper?

  Okay, you're gonna kill me. I begged you.

• 57:58Speaker 01

  This is what's it, okay?

• 57:59Alex Cooper?

  I begged John.

• 58:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. I there, I know there's a guitar here on the.

• 58:04Alex Cooper?

  To bring his guitar.

• 58:05Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 58:06Alex Cooper?

  More because, you know, I love the Daddy Gang. Everyone listening, watching, I love you. Selfishly, I need you to play just a couple things.

• 58:14Speaker 01

  I get it. You wanna watch, you wanna watch me do the thing I just talked about for an hour?

• 58:18Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 58:18Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 58:19Alex Cooper?

  Get the guitar. Let's go. Here we go.

• 58:43Alex Cooper?

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• 59:26Alex Cooper?

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• 1:00:00Speaker 02

  It's not a silly little moment. It's not the storm before the calm. This is the deep and dying breath of this love that we've been working on and on. Can't seem to hold you like I want to, want to, so I can hold you in my arms. Nobody's gonna come and save us. We pulled too many false alarms. We're going down. And you can see it too. We're going down. And you know that we're doomed, my dear.

• 1:00:44Speaker 02

  We're slow dancing in a burning moon.

• 1:00:57Speaker 02

  I was the one you always dreamed of. You were the one I tried to draw. How dare you say it's nothing to me? Baby, you're the only light I ever saw. I'm the most of all the sadness. You know you'd be a bitch because you can. You try to hit me just to hurt me, so you leave me feeling dirty 'cause you can't understand. We're going down.

• 1:01:29Speaker 02

  You can see it too. We're going down. And you know that we're doomed. Oh, my dear, we're slow dancing in a burning room.

• 1:02:01Speaker 02

  Oh, go cry about it, why don't you? Yeah.

• 1:02:08Speaker 02

  Go cry about it, why don't you? Yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:15Speaker 02

  Oh, go cry about it, go cry about it, go cry about it now. Oh, my dear, we're slow dancing in a burning room. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:32Speaker 02

  Oh, now, now, in a burning room. Don't you think we oughta know by now? Don't you think we should learn somehow? Don't you think we oughta know by now, by now? Don't you think we should learn somehow? I don't wanna burn. I don't wanna burn and burn and burn and burn and down and down. My dear, we're slow dancing in a burning room.

• 1:03:08Speaker 02

  Thank you very much.

• 1:03:10Alex Cooper?

  Wow.

• 1:03:10Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:03:10Alex Cooper?

  I have no words.

• 1:03:12Speaker 02

  Thank you. It's not like, there's like this guitar solo stuff that I do in the song, but on an acoustic, I just have to be like...

• 1:03:17Alex Cooper?

  No, it's fine.

• 1:03:20Alex Cooper?

  We can use in that line, Georgia.

• 1:03:22Speaker 02

  What's that?

• 1:03:32Speaker 02

  I am driving up eighty-five in a kind of morning that lasts all afternoon.

• 1:03:45Speaker 02

  I'm just stuck inside the gloom.

• 1:03:48Speaker 01

  Give me that one. Do you know who says?

• 1:03:50Alex Cooper?

  I think I've heard it.

• 1:03:52Speaker 01

  It goes, uh.

• 1:03:53Speaker 02

  Who says I can't get stoned? Turn off the lights in the telephone. Me and my house alone. Who says I can't get stoned?

• 1:04:05Speaker 02

  Who says I can't take time? Meet all the girls in the county line. Wait on fate to send a sign.

• 1:04:13Speaker 01

  Oh, I did it wrong.

• 1:04:14Alex Cooper?

  It's okay.

• 1:04:15Speaker 01

  Don't you see the cheat of having an acoustic guitar?

• 1:04:18Alex Cooper?

  Of a guitar, yeah.

• 1:04:19Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:04:19Alex Cooper?

  Do you do this before you have sex with someone?

• 1:04:21Speaker 01

  No, I do it after sometime. No, you should never play guitar to have sex with someone. But a little naked guitar playing after is very memorable. With a little gut hanging over. Sitting on the end of the bed, little gut hanging over. You know? It's nice. It's nice to do it.

• 1:04:39Alex Cooper?

  I don't think anyone is staring at your gut, John.

• 1:04:43Speaker 01

  I like the way people look when they fold all up, all weird when they, when they sit up. No matter who you are, you look weird when you sit up, and it's cute. You know what I mean?

• 1:04:51Alex Cooper?

  You look great right now.

• 1:04:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, you sit, you know, I'm a shirt on, but people, everyone, no matter who you are, you sit up, you're like.

• 1:04:55Alex Cooper?

  Of course.

• 1:04:56Speaker 01

  It's great.

• 1:04:57Alex Cooper?

  We're humans, we have skin.

• 1:04:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, and after you're all done, it would just look sort of like dopey in a cool way.

• 1:05:02Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 1:05:03Speaker 01

  So, yeah, this is actually when I came up with, um, I came up with, "Who says I can't get stoned?" I think I was in bed, a little stoned, on a bed. And it was after having some, some fun. And that's when an acoustic guitar's great. It's, it's so lame to do it before.

• 1:05:21Alex Cooper?

  So you're telling me that a special someone got to watch you create a line?

• 1:05:28Speaker 01

  I think so.

• 1:05:28Alex Cooper?

  In pro, damn. Can you sing "Daughters"?

• 1:05:31Speaker 01

  Yes, I can sing "Daughters." Uh, and "Daughters," I think.

• 1:05:34Speaker 02

  I think it might have been on this guitar. I wrote that in 2003. I was in New Zealand or Australia and I was in the shower when I came up with it and got out of the shower naked and skipped the next thing I had to do, which was a radio interview. I was like, "I can't do the radio interview, I have to write this song." Because it was the cyclical, as soon as I broke, because you know, it was like, Fathers be good to your daughters. Daughters will love like you do. You know, that was interesting. And then when I came up with the circle of, Girls become lovers who turn into mothers. And then I came up with,

• 1:06:15Speaker 02

  So mothers be good to your daughters too. That whole swirl, I was like, "That's something." Like, the geometry of that was interesting.

• 1:06:26Alex Cooper?

  It seems like a lot of your songwriting is happening when you're naked.

• 1:06:30Speaker 02

  Because a lot of things, yes, yes, in the shower a lot. I want to put a microphone in the shower. But what I like about Daughters is that for all the tracks people use for songs, and I love songs with a lot of tracks, but this is one of those songs where the whole song is on the guitar. This is, this is the whole song of Daughter.

• 1:06:50Speaker 02

  That's the song.

• 1:06:55Speaker 02

  It's like pressing play on, except for the shaker.

• 1:06:58Speaker 02

  I know a girl. She puts the color inside of my world.

• 1:07:10Speaker 02

  But she's just like a maze where all of the walls are continually changing.

• 1:07:22Speaker 02

  And I've done all I can to stand on her steps with my heart in my hands.

• 1:07:34Speaker 02

  Now I'm starting to see that maybe it's got nothing to do with me.

• 1:07:47Speaker 02

  Fathers be good to your daughters. Daughters will love like you do.

• 1:07:59Speaker 02

  Girls become lovers who turn into mothers. So mothers be good to your daughters too, oh yeah.

• 1:08:13Speaker 01

  Now, the thing that people got wrong about that song was that I'm not really talking too far. I'm not a 24-year-old guy going like, "Hey, older men..." It was, um, it's about the frustration of wanting to have a relationship with someone who can't because of upbringing. So if you've ever met someone, you're like, "Oh, I can't, I can't fix this particular part of your operating system." And then you're so desperate because you wish you could have that person that it really is a leap of logic to say, you're so upset that you're going like, "Stop..." You know what I'm saying?

• 1:08:48Alex Cooper?

  That's so interesting.

• 1:08:49Speaker 01

  Like, "I wanted this girl so badly to be, to be able to receive my love. Whose ass do I have to kick?"

• 1:08:55Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:55Speaker 01

  And I think it got read, that's what happens when you work metaphorically, is people misunderstand it a lot. And so I think people thought that I was just like, "Well, I'm 24. Let me tell dads how to raise their daughters." But it's like a big, like, first dance wedding song, and I think it works both ways. And as I get older, it works a little easier as both ways. I just didn't think of 24, it didn't make sense to some people at 24.

• 1:09:15Alex Cooper?

  Wait, now, I, I didn't get that, obviously, and now I completely get it. Where it's like, "Oh, you're kind of being like, 'Hey, I love this girl so much, but she's a little fucked up because her dad did, or the mom..."

• 1:09:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it's this idea that, it's a little selfish, you know?

• 1:09:29Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:30Speaker 01

  Like, "Hey, I kind of, I kind of wanted to love this person, asshole."

• 1:09:35Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 1:09:36Speaker 01

  You know? It, it doesn't make it, it's emotional. It's like, it sounds logical, but it's mostly emotional.

• 1:09:40Alex Cooper?

  What is the one, okay, I'm gonna forget the name, because it's not...

• 1:09:43Speaker 01

  No, don't give me keywords, it's fine.

• 1:09:44Alex Cooper?

  Um, um, not Broken Heart, but it's like, not Dancing With A Broken Heart?

• 1:09:49Speaker 01

  Dreaming With A Broken Heart.

• 1:09:49Alex Cooper?

  Dreaming With A Broken Heart.

• 1:09:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:51Alex Cooper?

  Such a good one.

• 1:09:53Speaker 01

  It's on the piano, but...

• 1:09:59Speaker 02

  It's weird to do on the guitar. Sounds exactly the same.

• 1:10:05Speaker 02

  It's up there, but it's like...

• 1:10:12Speaker 02

  It's like I have to really sing it.

• 1:10:19Speaker 02

  I figured out how to sing it now.

• 1:11:16Speaker 02

  Isn't that what it is? I think so.

• 1:11:23Speaker 02

  Is it giving up? I don't remember.

• 1:11:26Speaker 02

  And all at once, you start to... Uh, is that the same lyrics as the... I don't know, but I'm crying. Yeah, that's right.

• 1:11:50Speaker 02

  No, she won't, 'cause she's gone, gone, gone, gone. And it's like...

• 1:12:00Speaker 01

  How about being old enough now that I can't remember some of those songs?

• 1:12:04Alex Cooper?

  Me picturing myself driving home from a break. I'm like, John!

• 1:12:09Speaker 01

  Right. Do I have to fall asleep with roses in my hand? That's right. Do I have to fall asleep with roses in my hand? Yeah. Then it's way up. Do I have to fall asleep with roses in my, roses in my hand? And would you get them if I did? Hmm. No, you won't.

• 1:12:43Speaker 01

  Because you're gone, gone, gone, gone, gone.

• 1:12:55Speaker 01

  Right, and then it goes, just the verse one more time.

• 1:13:03Speaker 01

  When you're dreaming with a broken heart.

• 1:13:10Speaker 01

  The waking up is the hardest part.

• 1:13:16Speaker 01

  I haven't played that song in a while.

• 1:13:18Alex Cooper?

  That song got me through so much heartbreak.

• 1:13:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I did, I woke up, one day I was making Continuum, I woke up and I had had a dream about someone. And I had a crush on them the whole rest of the day because I had had a dream about them. Do you still have dreams where you wake up and you loved someone and now you have a crush and you're all emotional for a day?

• 1:13:40Alex Cooper?

  Oh yeah, you're thinking about them.

• 1:13:41Speaker 01

  It's the best feeling in the world as you get older. But I went to the studio and they were working on something else and I went and sat in this big reverb chamber and closed the door. And I was like, I've got to work on this song. And that's all about

• 1:13:54Speaker 01

  the pain of having a dream about someone that you don't know but have a crush on. Or that you know and have a crush on. For me, I didn't really know this person but just had a crush on them. I'll never say who. Uh, because it's random, it's very random, it's not...

• 1:14:07Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, waking up is the hardest part. Wow!

• 1:14:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, because you're like, oh.

• 1:14:12Alex Cooper?

  John, I want to, I'm gonna speak for the masses that you just made a lot of people's holidays.

• 1:14:21Speaker 02

  Oh, cool.

• 1:14:22Alex Cooper?

  Truly, like, it's so fucking cool to see, uh huh, oh, I mean.

• 1:14:29Speaker 02

  Keep talking.

• 1:14:30Alex Cooper?

  I, yeah, this is a good way to end the show. I'm really happy that you came on the show.

• 1:14:38Alex Cooper?

  We got deep, we had fun, we're friends now, which is fun. I have a new friend. Thank you for sharing your location with me. Kazzy was like, he thought that, yeah, I'm excited. Um, no, you brought out a side of yourself that I really appreciate you sharing because it is very cool to see someone that is so huge in their own right, but to get to sit with you and hear just a little bit of the personal side of you makes this even cooler.

• 1:15:07Speaker 02

  Thank you. Thank you for, um, being kind to me, good to me, and making me feel comfortable. I'm now a fan of the show. Um, I, if you, if, I don't know if there's an initiation into the Daddy Gang, but I will do whatever it takes.

• 1:15:20Alex Cooper?

  I think you have to look into the camera and just say, "Hi Daddy Gang."

• 1:15:24Speaker 02

  Hi Daddy Gang.

• 1:15:25Alex Cooper?

  Woo! John Mayer, thank you so much for coming on Call Her Daddy.

• 1:15:28Speaker 02

  Thank you for having me, Alex.

• 1:15:29Alex Cooper?

  It was a pleasure.

• 1:15:29Speaker 02

  So much fun. Have yourself a merry little Christmas.

• 1:15:38Speaker 02

  Let your heart be light.

• 1:15:44Speaker 02

  From now on, our troubles will be out of sight. And have yourself

• 1:15:56Speaker 02

  a merry little Christmas now.

• 1:16:10Alex Cooper?

  John fucking Mayer!

• 1:16:13Speaker 02

  Thank you very much. You might have to edit that one. I didn't nail that bridge.

• 1:16:31Alex Cooper?

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• 1:17:16Alex Cooper?

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• 1:18:01Alex Cooper?

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