Dancing with the Stars: Whitney & Mark's Final Dance

Join Alex for a Call Her Daddy Special with Whitney Leavitt and Mark Ballas. Whitney and Mark reflect on their shocking elimination from Dancing with the Stars, address this season’s biggest controversies and open up about how the online hate has impacted them personally.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Alex Cooper?

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• 1:30Alex Cooper?

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• 2:13Alex Cooper?

  What is up, daddy gang? It is your founding father. Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy.

• 2:23Alex Cooper?

  Welcome to a special edition of Call Her Daddy. We are doing something I have never done in the history of this show. We're currently at the Avalon Theater in Hollywood, California, and tonight I have so many surprises in store for you. This past week, one of the biggest conversations in America has been about Whitney and Mark's elimination from Dancing with the Stars in the semifinals. After they were sent home, I received thousands of messages demanding I sit down and I interview them. So I partnered with ABC to make all this happen, and we have put together a very, very,

• 3:07Alex Cooper?

  very exciting show for all of you. So grab your popcorn, maybe get a little bit of wine, maybe some tequila, and get ready because we're about to get into it.

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• 4:52Alex Cooper?

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• 6:21Alex Cooper?

  Whitney Levitt, welcome to Call Her Daddy. This is crazy. I want to preface to everyone tuning in tonight that we are currently sitting in this interview, and the Dancing with the Stars finale has yet to happen. So we do not know who the winners are, and we wish all of the finalists the best of luck.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 6:39Alex Cooper?

  But Whitney, I'm here with you tonight.

• 6:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:42Alex Cooper?

  Can you talk to me about how you have been doing since getting eliminated?

• 6:47Speaker 01

  I...

• 6:50Speaker 01

  I feel a roller coaster of emotions. I feel grateful, but I also feel sad. Like something that I think is really important for any fan of Dancing with the Stars to understand is you are with these people every single day. And you're doing really vulnerable things like dancing, learning new moves. And there's a camera around you 24/7 and then it just stops. It just ends. And so it felt like a huge breakup for me. And to be honest, I didn't even think I was gonna make it that far in the show. So every, at the end of every dance, I just wanted to soak it all in, enjoy every single moment

• 7:34Speaker 01

  because I didn't know when it was gonna be my last. But then when it was, I was like, oh, wait, like, I wasn't, I wasn't prepared for that.

• 7:42Alex Cooper?

  America was really divided about you as a contestant, kind of from day one.

• 7:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:48Alex Cooper?

  And when you did get eliminated, people were either outraged.

• 7:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:53Alex Cooper?

  Or they were so thrilled.

• 7:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:55Alex Cooper?

  They, no, there were literally TikToks and videos being made, people saying, the war is over.

• 8:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:00Alex Cooper?

  So how did it feel to see that many people celebrating you going home?

• 8:05Speaker 01

  I mean, I shouldn't say it's not a good thing, but I am used to it. I am used to the hate. And so with season one and season two of Secret Lives of Mormon Wives being out, like, I just didn't think I was gonna make it that far in Dancing with the Stars because I already knew like the persona that I had in the media. So I didn't think people were gonna really vote for me.

• 8:29Alex Cooper?

  All of this has, I genuinely believe, created a larger discourse about women, online hate, bullying, reality television. And we're gonna get into all of that tonight. But first, I kind of just wanna go back to like, when did you first decide that you really wanted to go on Dancing with the Stars and when this was like an actual goal of yours?

• 8:50Speaker 01

  I've always been a fan of the show. It like brought me so much joy. I love dancing. Dancing has always been a part of my life. I always say like, I feel most like myself when I'm dancing. And so never in a million years did I ever think I'd be casted on it. Like, it just felt like an unobtainable dream and like a delusional idea I had in my mind. So then, once that chance presented itself to me, like, I wanted to go after it.

• 9:16Alex Cooper?

  The moment you realize you get Dancing with the Stars, what did that moment mean to you?

• 9:22Speaker 01

  Well, when I first found out, they called Jen's name first. So it was like immediate like, oh, damn it. But then they called my name and I was like, oh, like it's like the heart went down and then it shot right back up.

• 9:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just, I immediately looked at Connor, ran and like literally jumped on him just because I just, I just couldn't believe it. Like it just, it didn't feel real.

• 9:49Alex Cooper?

  So I want you to kind of go back because you said I was worried because season one and two of Secret Lives of Mormon Wives was already out. So to anyone that lives under a rock, yes, you are on another reality show.

• 10:01Speaker 01

  Right.

• 10:01Alex Cooper?

  And can you talk to me a little bit more about how you had concerns that your reputation from that one reality show would bleed into how Dancing with the Stars fans would feel about you?

• 10:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, listen, I, I knew going into reality TV, I wasn't going to control the narrative. Of course, I'd love for you to see all the happy days and all the positive things and all the great things that I say and do. But I knew going into that, that that just doesn't come with the territory. With seasons one and two, we can say it as it is. I'm like the quote unquote villain. And I just felt like in the media, like the perspective that I had out there, like that's just who I was. And so I just felt like that was going to carry with me onto Dancing with the Stars.

• 10:52Alex Cooper?

  And for anyone who is not maybe fully clued in to Secret Lives, can you just explain a little bit of why you were painted as the villain in season one and two?

• 11:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I'm a very, like, I wear my emotions on my sleeve. I'm very open and sometimes that bites me in the ass. And in season one and season two, like, sure, there were decisions that I made that I wasn't happy about, but they were very petty things like. Not showing up to an event to support a friend, unfollowing people. It was just very petty things. And then with that, and with like being in this reality world, like just, I think people love giving someone that title. And that title was given to me.

• 11:37Alex Cooper?

  Would you do anything differently when it comes to season one and two, when you look back?

• 11:41Speaker 01

  I mean, yeah, of course. I'd look back and I'd be like, well, I probably shouldn't have said that. I probably shouldn't have done that. Absolutely. Uh, life would be a lot easier if we could just be like, you know what? Let me just push the rewind button and let me get a redo on that one. That would be incredible. Um, but that's just not what happened.

• 11:57Alex Cooper?

  Okay. Dancing with the Stars. Take me to the first few weeks. How do you think the fans felt about you?

• 12:06Speaker 01

  I just wasn't sure. Like, we don't see the votes. Like, I don't know, like, where I stand every single Tuesday. But, I mean, Mark will even tell you, like, the first Tuesday, like, I was like, man, like, I just really want to enjoy this one dance because I might be going home tonight.

• 12:24Speaker 01

  But that's how I felt every single Tuesday. Like, I just, I wanted to soak up every single dance because I just didn't know when it was gonna end.

• 12:30Alex Cooper?

  So as you start to kind of go through this experience, what were you in the initial days loving the most?

• 12:36Speaker 01

  Oh, the beginning. I loved the beginning because actually, sorry, yes, to answer your previous question. In the beginning, it was lots of love. And I was like, oh, my God, like, I'm not used to this. Like, this is so crazy. Like, um, Mark is such a wonderful person. Like, I know he, like, he's a fan favorite on the show. Like, everybody loves him.

• 13:00Speaker 01

  And so I felt that love and it was exciting and we were learning these dances and it was just like, yeah, I was experiencing everything for the first time.

• 13:07Alex Cooper?

  Some early criticism that you received was around your previous dance experience.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 13:13Alex Cooper?

  Can you just clarify for all of us? What is exactly your previous dance experience with me?

• 13:21Speaker 01

  I, um, so I think what people were so hung up on is my modern dance degree.

• 13:29Speaker 01

  I got that at Brigham Young University. That's a Mormon college, very conservative. Modern is like lots of shape. It's very artsy fartsy is the best way that I can describe it. But as far as like, like, that's as, that's as far as it went. Like, I- Dancing with a partner in this capacity is like so new to me, so different. Of course, that background helped learning different techniques, but this was still very new to me.

• 14:01Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. And before going on the show, how much were you actively keeping up with dance?

• 14:07Speaker 01

  Well, I, um, at the time when I had found out, my baby was six months old. So after I had kids, I wasn't dancing, like I wasn't dancing rigorously. Because I went to college and then I just started having babies. I have three kids. Um, I have a six-year-old, a four-year-old, and my baby just turned one. So yeah, I went to college, I started a family and I wasn't dancing. Of course, I was making like TikToks and that was like my outlet. And then I found out and I was like, hey, like,

• 14:42Speaker 01

  his go time.

• 14:42Alex Cooper?

  So you weren't actively dancing professionally?

• 14:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, like I'd like go take a class maybe every once in a while, but no, I wasn't actively dancing.

• 14:49Alex Cooper?

  Regardless, you quickly became a frontrunner out of the gate. You and Mark were getting some of the highest scores the entire season. When do you feel the shift?

• 15:00Speaker 01

  I feel like the shift happened after week five. I feel like that that's when it happened and it was like, there was a moment where Mark and I were out of sync for like a little section in one of our dances. And then, I don't know, there was like this uproar. It's like, ah, like, see, like she isn't good or duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, like, and then it just like, exploded and then it just went south.

• 15:27Alex Cooper?

  So that's one shift. And then there's the obvious shift. A week before the semifinals, season three of The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives airs.

• 15:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:40Alex Cooper?

  And the online discourse completely explodes about you. Was there anything that you were aware of and nervous for fans to see that was gonna come out?

• 15:52Speaker 01

  I mean, I was very clear why I came back that season. I was very candid. And I just, I wasn't sure how people were gonna take it. And it felt like it was 50/50. Like, you either had respect for it, or you either were like, oh my gosh.

• 16:09Alex Cooper?

  Okay, so let's talk about that. The backlash that really was, I feel like, the frontrunner of the core of why people first got so upset when the season came out was you revealed that the only reason that you returned to Secret Lives was because you wanted to get cast on Dancing With The Stars.

• 16:26Alex Cooper?

  Why do you think that was so controversial?

• 16:29Speaker 01

  At least from what I've seen, I think people thought that I was exploiting a friend group. But that wasn't at all. I mean, there's even a scene that I watched, there's a scene of me and Taylor were getting glammed for something, I don't know, it was for PR. We were getting glammed for PR and she's asking me, and she's like, well, the women only think that you're back for to audition for a chance to be on Dancing With The Stars. And I was like, that's exactly right. Like, that's exactly why I'm back. Like, I was very honest, very clear. Like, I wasn't trying to mislead or be sneaky about anything. Like, I was very clear about my intentions coming back.

• 17:03Alex Cooper?

  Clearly, they felt like that was off-putting.

• 17:05Speaker 01

  Right.

• 17:05Alex Cooper?

  They're like, you're not here for the sisterhood, you're here to make money. What is your response to that?

• 17:10Speaker 01

  Well, there's history with that. Because after season one, and then filming season two, there was an effort to rebuild those friendships. And it didn't feel reciprocated. So I was just trying to figure out how to navigate that. Like, okay, like,

• 17:29Speaker 01

  where am I going now in this experience? Because it doesn't feel like I am wanted in this experience.

• 17:37Speaker 01

  And so going back with season three, I just had a different mindset. And I was honest about the mindset.

• 17:43Alex Cooper?

  Well, which I think a lot of people respect it. They're like, would you rather you lie? And you're like, completely fake? No, you're just like, being real. And you're being like, this is exactly why I'm here, take it or leave it.

• 17:53Speaker 01

  Right.

• 17:54Alex Cooper?

  You said, quote, "You were treating Secret Lives like a business opportunity," is what you're saying. How do you think that impacted your relationship with the rest of Mom Talk?

• 18:04Speaker 01

  Well...

• 18:06Speaker 01

  Going back, the beginning days of Mom Talk, I fell in love with Mom Talk because I love the camaraderie. I know it's so cheesy. I know they're cheesy little TikToks, but that wasn't out what for me because I love the camaraderie of entertainment. Like it takes like even right now, like so many people, the lighting, the filming, the microphones, like the audio, like it takes so much to create even what we're creating right now. And like, I have so much respect for that and passion for it. And I know it was so cheesy, but I loved that about Mom Talk. It was like the camaraderie of us getting together and like making something entertaining for somebody to watch at home. Like I loved that. And then it just shifted. It just wasn't that for me anymore. And so I didn't know how to navigate that. And

• 18:51Speaker 01

  I didn't even know how the other women felt about it. So I would just tell myself, okay, well, let me just be honest about my intentions because I don't know where we stand. It doesn't feel like you want me here. So here's my intentions of being here.

• 19:07Alex Cooper?

  Do you think that your approach to the sisterhood is completely different than all of the other women?

• 19:18Speaker 01

  I'm not sure because I would hope that we were all wanting more from being so vulnerable and sharing our lives to the world.

• 19:29Alex Cooper?

  Yes, it may have started as one thing, but I don't know any reality show that doesn't transform in some capacity.

• 19:34Speaker 01

  Well, and it already has for a lot of the women, like Macy has her book, Taylor's The Bachelorette, like she was just on here announcing that, like there's so many things even now happening for all of the women. And I would hope that for all of us, that we could use this experience to then venture out to other things that we were wanting.

• 19:50Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. Do you think you got a fair edit this season on Secret Lives?

• 19:55Speaker 01

  Of season three? I do. I really do. I think, you know, and going back, like I wanted to be honest. I wanted to be real and I feel like I was.

• 20:05Alex Cooper?

  Is there anything with regard to this new season that you want to set the record straight on?

• 20:11Speaker 01

  I mean, yeah, I guess I'll double down on that. Like, when the producers called me, because I had stepped away from the experience, like, when they called me and they were like, "Hey, you come back and film, you will have a chance to audition to be on Dancing with the Stars." And I said, "Fuck, yeah. I will be back for that."

• 20:32Alex Cooper?

  You wouldn't.

• 20:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:33Alex Cooper?

  Because it's a job at the end of the day.

• 20:35Speaker 01

  Yes, it is.

• 20:36Alex Cooper?

  Right?

• 20:36Speaker 01

  And like, I understand that there's more, there is relationship there in the group. So I could totally understand why it was off-putting for some of the women. But that's just where we were at the time. I mean, obviously now, friendships are different now. Like, we've rebuilt, we're rebuilding those right now. But at the time, it wasn't that.

• 20:56Alex Cooper?

  You were not the only woman, like you mentioned earlier, from Secret Lives, who was on Dancing with the Stars this season. Jen Affleck was also a part of the show.

• 21:05Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 21:05Alex Cooper?

  How did you feel that you were both cast?

• 21:09Speaker 01

  We actually didn't see each other a lot. Like, we, our rehearsal schedules didn't really match up. I saw her on show days. I saw her on blocking sometimes.

• 21:20Speaker 01

  And yeah, I mean, I'm sure that she enjoyed this experience just as much as I did.

• 21:24Alex Cooper?

  Jen said, quote, "The minute there's an opportunity, you say you've always wanted it." And implied that you only wanted to audition for Dancing with the Stars, because she did. What is your response to that?

• 21:37Speaker 01

  Um, oh, that I only want to audition because she did?

• 21:41Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 21:42Speaker 01

  Oh, um,

• 21:45Speaker 01

  that's wild. I always wanted to be a part of the show. I think that everybody can have the same dream. Everyone can have the same goal. And we just happen to have the same dream and the same goal. And I'm so happy that we both got to do that.

• 21:59Alex Cooper?

  Okay, well, we need to talk about her elimination.

• 22:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:02Alex Cooper?

  Because this was one of, again, these moments where there are slow-mo videos of you reacting to when Jen gets eliminated. And we have, basically, a moment where it looks like you're smirking, and then you cover your mouth. Like, describe what was going through your head and what actually happened.

• 22:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, um.

• 22:25Speaker 01

  I thought I was getting eliminated every Tuesday. Every single Tuesday, I was like mentally preparing myself. So in that moment, I felt two emotions. Like it was one where it was like, oh my God, they didn't call my name. But oh my God, now my friend's going home. Like two emotions in that moment. And I think, you know, it's like, it's a relief. And then it's like, oh, wait, but now somebody's going home and now is leaving this experience.

• 22:51Alex Cooper?

  So when you went to smile, that feeling was what?

• 22:54Speaker 01

  I like, it's funny, like, I don't remember smiling. Um, but if anything, it was relief. Like, oh, they didn't call my name. Like, I get to do this one more week, but oh, now somebody has to go home.

• 23:05Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 23:06Speaker 01

  I hate that they don't get to experience this anymore.

• 23:08Alex Cooper?

  And so there was no excitement that Jen was getting eliminated?

• 23:13Speaker 01

  Absolutely not.

• 23:13Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 23:14Speaker 01

  No, no excitement whatsoever. There's never excitement when anyone gets eliminated. But there's definitely relief. Like when they don't call your name in that moment, you're like, I get to do this one more week. But then we all go and we, you know, I even experienced, everybody comes and they hug me like, of course, they were all relieved that they all made it to the final. And then it wasn't them, but then they're all so sad because somebody has to go home.

• 23:35Alex Cooper?

  Jen went on TikTok Live after her elimination and said, quote, "I would be rooting for a former Mom Talk person, but we won't be getting into that."

• 23:47Alex Cooper?

  How does that make you feel that she's essentially coming out and saying, I'm not gonna vote for Whitney?

• 23:51Speaker 01

  Right.

• 23:52Alex Cooper?

  I'm not gonna root for her.

• 23:53Speaker 01

  I mean, this is the thing. Jen understands what it's like being in the public eye, being in the reality space, getting the hate. Like she's experienced it. So, I mean, it sucked. It didn't feel great that she fed into that, that she decided to go on a live and say, "Yeah, I'm not gonna vote for her." I mean, she could have just said who she was voting for. She didn't need to say who she wasn't voting for. And then to go and press, like, there's definitely more story there, but...

• 24:24Alex Cooper?

  Can you just help us understand a little bit more though? Like, what is going on between you and Jen and what is your current relationship?

• 24:31Speaker 01

  Um, the relationship's not great. I don't really even know if there is one right now. Um, there was a lot that happened while we were doing Dancing with the Stars. We were also filming Secret Lives during the time. So I know, um...

• 24:48Speaker 01

  Like the audience is going to be able to see that story when that comes out next year.

• 24:52Alex Cooper?

  Got it. So we're going to probably see that on season four and that's something you can't fully talk about.

• 24:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:56Alex Cooper?

  So there is something going on with Jen.

• 24:58Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 24:58Alex Cooper?

  We just can't fully talk about it yet.

• 24:59Speaker 01

  Right, yeah.

• 25:00Alex Cooper?

  And when we see that story, are you looking forward to that story coming out and more clarity? Or are you nervous about it?

• 25:07Speaker 01

  Um, both. Because I just think feelings were hurt and on both sides. And there wasn't a mutual understanding. But I can tell you what I didn't do. I didn't go online and say, I'm not supporting you and I'm not rooting for you.

• 25:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, it just sucked.

• 25:26Alex Cooper?

  What terms are you on with the rest of Mom Talk?

• 25:30Speaker 01

  Great.

• 25:30Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 25:31Speaker 01

  Everyone's great. Like, there's so much support while I was doing Dancing with the Stars. Like, so much love, so much, like, even after I got eliminated, everyone texting me, checking in on me, like,

• 25:42Speaker 01

  great. I'm loving where the group's at right now. I'm loving it.

• 25:46Alex Cooper?

  You're like, thank God.

• 25:49Alex Cooper?

  Who would you say you're closest to right now?

• 25:50Speaker 01

  The women that I'm closest to right now in the group are Demi, Leila, and surprisingly, Michaela, which I don't think anyone would have ever thought of in years. I definitely would have. But I'm very, very grateful, like, where we're at right now in our relationship, yeah.

• 26:04Alex Cooper?

  We have touched on some of the secret lives drama and how it affected the season of Dancing with the Stars. But there were so many more moments that you went through, the good, the bad, the ugly.

• 26:17Alex Cooper?

  But you went through it with someone.

• 26:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:19Alex Cooper?

  So I feel like we cannot continue this interview without including him and bringing him out.

• 26:25Speaker 01

  That the legend himself.

• 26:41Alex Cooper?

  Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Airbnb. As you guys know, I have basically been working double time throughout this pregnancy to bank episodes for the month that I will be on maternity leave. And a few weeks ago, it all just kind of hit me. I was like, Wait, wait, wait. Where did summer go? And I was talking about this with Matt and he ended up surprising me with a little staycation. He booked this beautiful home on Airbnb in Malibu so that we could pretend like it was summer while it's still warm here in LA. The weather was perfect. The house was right on the beach, which was so relaxing and amazing. It also had just such a gorgeous kitchen. We stayed in, we cooked dinner together and you know, daddy gaining my cooking skills,

• 27:25Alex Cooper?

  they have, they have gotten better. They've gotten a little bit better through pregnancy. But it was really just so nice to unplug and spend that time together before the baby comes and we move into this completely new chapter of our life. So whether you're planning a cozy weekend away, or you're just looking for an excuse to unplug for a few days, October is the perfect time to get out of town. Booking a home on Airbnb makes the trip feel even more special because everyone has room to actually spend time together. Whether you're coming back after a long day out, or you're also just cooking dinner. Airbnb makes settling in even easier because you can order groceries for your trip and have all the snacks and essentials delivered

• 28:07Alex Cooper?

  after you arrive. My favorite fall trips always have one thing in common, an amazing place to stay. That's why I always look at Airbnb first. This is a paid ad by BetterHelp. So anytime that I am finding myself having a habit that I just cannot kick, I'm like, okay, I need to talk about this in therapy. Listen, guys, everyone has habits, mindsets, or patterns that don't serve them. But recognizing what they are and learning how to let them go can be so important. It's literally the first step towards creating meaningful change and therapy with BetterHelp. One of the leading online therapy platforms can be a space to explore where those patterns come from and develop healthier habits and mindsets

• 28:47Alex Cooper?

  for a more fulfilling life. With over 30,000 therapists worldwide, BetterHelp has served millions of people globally. BetterHelp makes it easier to fit therapy into your routine with flexible ways to connect that work for different schedules and lifestyles. Plus, BetterHelp therapists have at least three years and 1,000 hours on

• 29:07Alex Cooper?

  Hand experience and hold all required education, training and certifications. You can meet with a range of professionals from marriage and family therapists to social workers and counselors. So Daddy Gang, if you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/daddy. That's better H E L P dot com slash daddy. Mark, welcome to Call Her Daddy.

• 29:35Speaker 02

  Thank you so much for having me.

• 29:37Alex Cooper?

  Thank you for joining us. Since getting eliminated, how are you doing?

• 29:42Speaker 02

  Um, I think, you know, I think that day we kind of had a gut feeling, to be honest. I think that week had gone pretty well. I feel like the dances came together.

• 29:56Speaker 02

  For semifinal, a little easier than typically, but I don't know about.

• 30:00Speaker 01

  It was like time for the live show and like something just fell off.

• 30:03Speaker 02

  Time for the live show and we had just said to each other before, let's just go out, let's enjoy ourselves, let's have fun. Go for it, like let your hair down, enjoy this because we just had a feeling.

• 30:14Alex Cooper?

  We're going to circle back because I want to get to the elimination, but first we need to go back to the beginning of your guys' beautiful partnership. Can you describe what built this beautiful partnership? Because it feels like you're going to have a lasting friendship, right?

• 30:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:29Alex Cooper?

  You're both like, no, we absolutely hate each other. Everyone's speculating right now because you guys have been kind of quiet that they're like.

• 30:38Speaker 02

  I've seen like these TikToks like Whitney and Mark, they're not speaking, they're mad. Because honestly, like after we, I haven't, I kind of took a social media break.

• 30:46Alex Cooper?

  Good for you.

• 30:46Speaker 02

  And I do that, to be honest, like I'm not the best at it. But yeah, so after the elimination, I kind of just like got off and like I have a wife and a son and I wanted to spend some time with them and then.

• 30:58Speaker 01

  And then I called and I was like.

• 31:00Speaker 02

  And now I'm like, now I gotta fucking make this in three days.

• 31:04Alex Cooper?

  You're like, wait, I'm excited, Alex, but also fuck you.

• 31:08Alex Cooper?

  Okay, back up.

• 31:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:10Alex Cooper?

  Whitney.

• 31:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:11Alex Cooper?

  Going into the show, did you have a certain pro in mind that you would hope that you would get paired up with?

• 31:17Speaker 01

  I mean, I didn't even know that Mark was coming back.

• 31:20Alex Cooper?

  I love how you just reminded all of us. We all thought maybe you retired, right? You kind of announced.

• 31:26Speaker 02

  I did.

• 31:26Alex Cooper?

  That you were retired. How did you decide to come back?

• 31:29Speaker 02

  This is a loaded question. Mark, I'm ready. I'll try and give it to you quick. Okay. So I had taken a break from the show before my last season in 31, where I danced with Charli D'Amelio. Obviously, there was a global pandemic, so everyone was taking a break. I had also, you know, I went to musical theater college. I was on Broadway. I was in a couple of other shows. My wife and I were trying to start a family. And there's just like other things at play. And also, like, you know, there is this narrative like, Mark only comes back when he da-da-da. I did 19 seasons in a row. That's a lot. And, and I, um, over that time, I had taken on some injuries, knees, back, necks, wrists, like, all of it. It all hurts. Mark's getting old. And I'm 40 next year, you know? I'm gonna turn 40 next year.

• 32:12Speaker 02

  So, um, when I found, like, loved my relationship with Rob Mills, Deena Katz forever, and Conrad Green, who is our producer at the moment, he had called me for season 31 and said, would you ever be interested? And I was like, well, are you on the show? He's like, yeah, I'm coming back too. And I was like, oh, well, let me think about it. And then, you know, I was like, why not? Like, why not? Why not? So we, um, we ended up doing season 31. I didn't have much time to get into shape for it. I ended, my partner ended up being Charli D'Amelio. Had no idea going into that. That worked out. We had a wonderful season together, but I'm not gonna lie, like, my wife will tell you, the amount of eps and salt baths. And I had some pretty bad injuries and my lower back had been really bothering me for a while.

• 32:57Speaker 02

  And, um, actually during that season, uh, my wife went through, we, we found out we were, my wife was pregnant, and, uh, we ended up losing our baby before the semifinal. So I had to leave, like, her having, you know, the, um, the appointment to have the baby removed to come dance for the semifinal and then go on. And I was, that had kind of like just taken it out of me. And I just had body injuries that had really, really, um, affected me. And after that, when I was like, maybe I'm, maybe I'm done. I feel like in the moment, I had made an emotional decision, like, cause I had announced it at the tour, like, this might be the last one, blah, blah, blah.

• 33:39Speaker 02

  And then, fast forward, and a happier note, my wife ends up getting pregnant. We have our son Banksy now. And when he was born, I was like, no, I'm not gonna be dad who's like, I used to be a dancer and I can't play soccer or throw a baseball, you know? So like, I was really diligent about getting in shape, PT, working hard, getting into it. And then, um, my body started feeling good again. Like, it'll never be perfect again, but I was feeling like I could still like, ooh, this feels like how it used to, this could maybe, you know? So then I was entertaining the idea of coming back and I reached out to people and said, I think I got a couple more in the tank. And, um, here we are, you know?

• 34:17Alex Cooper?

  Thank you for sharing that because I think it just adds color to, we do not know what anyone is going through during these experiences. And to hear, and I, listen, I've seen it all over line of everyone being like, Mark only comes back when he knows he's gonna get a good partner.

• 34:33Speaker 02

  I am not privy to the cast, like, which one do you want? You know what I mean? The show is the show, it keeps it moving. And, um, you know, I've been happy to be a part of it for so long. It's been a big part of my life. It's given me so many amazing opportunities and I've had partners of all levels.

• 34:50Alex Cooper?

  So what was your reaction when you found out your partner was Whitney?

• 34:54Speaker 02

  I mean, and we've talked, we've talked about this many times, like, I'd, I'd never seen the show before. I had no, um, again, like, I wasn't really on, like, I'm on social media, but I'm not, you know, like.

• 35:05Alex Cooper?

  Mark, you're not on Mom Talk?

• 35:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, what the hell?

• 35:07Speaker 02

  I mean, I, I am now. I know the moves, uh, but, um, you know, I, uh, I was just excited to, to be back and to be out there with my fellow pros and like, you know, just ready for the experience. Again, I've done this so many times that like, let's go, bring it on. Like, I've, again, like, I've had partners at all different levels. So I was, I was, once I met her, we kinda hit it off pretty, pretty quickly. We had fun and like, we laugh a lot, we, um, roast each other all day.

• 35:37Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 35:37Speaker 02

  Which is fun for me, I love the banter, you know?

• 35:39Alex Cooper?

  Whitney? Yeah. How would you describe Mark as a coach?

• 35:46Alex Cooper?

  You can let it rip now because like

• 35:47Speaker 02

  Go for it.

• 35:48Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 35:52Speaker 01

  Mark is so good at showing you what you can do. And there'd be so many times where I'm like, there's just no way. Like, I don't, what are you talking about? But he pushes you, he's gonna push you, he's gonna be hard on you because he believes that you can do that. And then I'll do it, and then I'd be like, well, yeah, fuck yeah, you know?

• 36:15Speaker 01

  And I needed that.

• 36:16Alex Cooper?

  What is the biggest challenge that the two of you had to overcome in the early days to really make this partnership work?

• 36:25Speaker 01

  We vibed right away.

• 36:26Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 36:26Speaker 01

  Like, we just like hit it off. Like, I just think sometimes people just naturally connect and we naturally connected. But I actually feel like the hardest thing in our relationship was the hate that we got online.

• 36:36Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 36:36Speaker 01

  Like, I had experienced it, but having someone that I loved and care about so much, like, experience that, like, in turn hurt me. And then we experienced it together.

• 36:49Speaker 01

  That was probably the hardest part.

• 36:51Alex Cooper?

  Can we talk about that, though?

• 36:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:53Alex Cooper?

  Because it's like, take me to week one. Because I'm assuming that week one was not completely clouded by this hatred yet because it grew and it grew and it grew.

• 37:01Speaker 02

  It was fun.

• 37:02Alex Cooper?

  What was week one like and how, were you guys nervous? Did you feel prepared?

• 37:06Speaker 02

  Well, I also want to preface this as well, like, and I know I kind of mentioned this before, like, a big part of me wanting to do this season two is that my son is old enough to understand. You know, and it's like, I'm, again, I'm turning 40 next year. I don't know how much longer I can like, do this at the level where I can watch myself back and be like, I can still do it. So I was really excited for my son to like, watch it and be like, that's my dad, you know what I mean? Even though he's only two, but he can still like, when we watch the dances back, he points at the screen, he's like daddy, you know what I mean? So I was like, super excited for that. So yeah, the first four weeks, I felt like, we're a blast. Like, we did that first tango to Golden, and then it was the Play That Funky Music cha-cha.

• 37:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's what I, I told Alex too, I said like, week five was when.

• 37:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was around.

• 37:53Alex Cooper?

  So you were on a high at first.

• 37:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, for great.

• 37:55Alex Cooper?

  You're getting some of the highest scores, you're, you're vibing together. I did ask Whitney about this earlier and I want to get your take, Mark, though. One of the things that people really focused on with Whitney was her dance background.

• 38:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:07Alex Cooper?

  And there was a lot of conversation whether or not she had an unfair advantage. What is your take?

• 38:12Speaker 02

  Uh, my take is that. Is that the show, again, we're in season thirty-four. And I feel like when you look at the graph of the people, new fans watching it, it is off the scale. So there are a lot of people watching for the first time. Um, I can tell you from someone who's been a part of the show since season five, that I don't think you could tell me one season where there hasn't been someone with dance experience. Like, like when you're casting one of these shows, you're, it's called Dancing with the Stars. You're picking people that are known from their fields and mostly all derived from the entertainment industry, or they're an athlete, or they're on television. And I would say if you're trying to pick twelve to fourteen celebrities in the entertainment industry, someone's gonna have dance experience, you know?

• 38:56Speaker 02

  And I can tell you from season two, Mario Lopez, Sabrina Bryan, my first partner, Nicole Scherzinger, Jordan Fisher, um, you know, we've had ice skaters, we've had Olympic gymnast Charlie D'Amelio, Jojo Siwa, Jennifer Grey. This season, we have a few people also with dance experience. The thing I think that for Whitney specifically, if we're talking about in this context, that I think for people was like, oh, wow, like, it's really powerful, is that she is a dynamic performer and that's something that I can't teach. You're born with that. You're born with, when you walk in the room, you're like, let's get it. Like, like, you know what I mean? Like, you can develop it over time and you'll see there's some great dancers

• 39:40Speaker 02

  whose technique is just like, whoa. And then you have some dancers whose performance quality is like, whoa. And it's like, the, the goal is to try and bridge the two together. And that takes time. Like, a fine example is that your first week to cha-cha to play that funky music, compared to your prince night cha-cha, like, to a coach or someone that's in this field, like, it's night and day, but the performance quality is the same.

• 40:05Alex Cooper?

  Still there.

• 40:06Speaker 02

  You know?

• 40:07Alex Cooper?

  Let's talk about improvement.

• 40:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:09Alex Cooper?

  Because this was one of the biggest conversations online as to why people should still be there, why they shouldn't be there.

• 40:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 40:16Alex Cooper?

  Um, fans understandably are looking for the stars to improve.

• 40:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:22Alex Cooper?

  As the show goes on with their coach. But this season, it felt like Whitney was penalized because she started off very strong.

• 40:32Speaker 02

  Right.

• 40:32Alex Cooper?

  Mark? What is your take on this?

• 40:35Speaker 02

  Again, my, my take on the improvement thing is like, to me, as a coach, like, and I, this is not a biased thing. Like, she will tell you in rehearsal, "I am relentless in the pursuit of making things get better." Like, like, even today, when we were rehearsing for this, what were we talking about? "Pivoting your feet." And I was like, "It's week 11." You know, like, there's things that we're constantly always trying to iron in. And this is for all the professionals. The professionals on our show do such a fabulous job at taking anyone at their level and improving them. Now, when someone has a little bit less experience, the improvement can look like this, right?

• 41:16Speaker 02

  But if we look at the cha-cha 1 to cha-cha 2, it's night and days between leg action, footwork, tightness in turns. Even as your partner, like, sometimes I felt like I would have to, like, hone you in a little bit out there on the floor. If we look at her Vinnie's Waltz frame, like, the ballroom frame compared to, like, your Tango week 1, there's like huge improvements there, you know?

• 41:39Alex Cooper?

  You're coming out so strong. I'm curious if you think that this is gonna affect how contestants strategize moving forward.

• 41:47Speaker 02

  Here's what I'll say. I'm su- I can't speak for other people's strategy or how they approach the competition. I can only speak from experience from mine. And, and we talked about this at the beginning. My strategy is always, "Do your fucking best." Come out swinging. Do the best you can, because the reality is, I'm gonna tell you right now, this is not the first time that someone who is an amazing, incredible, dynamic performer has been eliminated early. It happened to me in season 5 with Sabrina Bryan. But this is the first time I feel like it's happened with this new TikTok and Instagram hype. Like, this has been happening on Dancing with the Stars. So, to underserve yourself, to underserve your performance for strategy, I just don't think it's the move.

• 42:32Speaker 02

  Like, I feel like if you can do the dance and you feel good, like, do your best. You just don't know, because you don't know if you're getting the votes, you don't know.

• 42:39Alex Cooper?

  It's great, great advice.

• 42:42Alex Cooper?

  A controversy that both of you experienced this season was around the ticket giveaway. We have to address it. How do you think this affected your guys' standing on the show? Who's taking it?

• 42:56Speaker 02

  I'll take it.

• 42:56Alex Cooper?

  Okay. Thanks, Mark. You're like, you go.

• 42:59Speaker 02

  I'm gonna paint this picture for you, right? When this came up, I promise you, it was super innocent. It was just like-

• 43:05Alex Cooper?

  So casual.

• 43:06Speaker 02

  So casual.

• 43:06Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 43:07Speaker 02

  We had talked to teams about it. Hey, we want to do a fun giveaway. Other people had done giveaways, but there's context to it, right? I'll tell you, when I was, when we talked about it, I was in the middle of putting three dances together. It was, what week was it? It was the, um, the marathon. It was the marathon week. So your dance was Brain Stu-, the Halloween dance and the Hustle and the Lindy Hop.

• 43:32Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 43:32Speaker 02

  So all my energy was into that. And we were like, hey, could we do something fun giveaway for fans? Yeah, let's do it. Come on. Sure. Fine. Probably in hindsight, should have checked, like, in this context. Um, there was only two tickets to give away. We've given away tickets to fans lots of times. The, um, there was no, there was no prove to us you're voting for us. I think Whitney articulated even in the video, like, even if you're not voting for us, this is an experience for everyone. It's just meant to be a bit of fun. It was two tickets. Like, when it all got that backlash crazy, I was like, you know what, guys, like, me and my wife just won't vote for me and it'll cancel itself out.

• 44:14Alex Cooper?

  What do you think really got misconstrued about that entire situation? Just like the gravity of it and how much effect it would have?

• 44:21Speaker 02

  I'm actually not sure. And like, probably on me a little bit, like, after so many seasons, I probably should have ran it up the flagship and, and been like, hey, is it cool to do this? But I just didn't think, like-

• 44:30Alex Cooper?

  Well, and same for me, too.

• 44:31Speaker 02

  We just had so much on our plate.

• 44:32Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, we were just like excited to do it, but it wasn't our tickets to give away. And-

• 44:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it was like posted a dumb photo of me in the comments and we'll pick someone at random and I probably should have checked, so I'll take accountability for that because I've been on the show for so long. But in the moment, three dances, five days to do it. I just.

• 44:50Alex Cooper?

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• 45:51Speaker 02

  Didn't think.

• 45:52Alex Cooper?

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• 46:35Alex Cooper?

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• 47:05Alex Cooper?

  Rapid fire moments, just answer whatever comes to your mind, okay?

• 47:09Speaker 02

  At the same time or one at a time?

• 47:11Alex Cooper?

  Both of you answer.

• 47:12Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 47:13Alex Cooper?

  What was the hardest dance to learn?

• 47:14Speaker 01

  Argentine Tango.

• 47:16Speaker 02

  I knew you were gonna say that.

• 47:18Alex Cooper?

  What would you say?

• 47:20Speaker 02

  Probably that one, Argentine Tango.

• 47:21Alex Cooper?

  What dance are you the most proud of?

• 47:24Speaker 01

  Argentine Tango.

• 47:25Speaker 02

  And Argentine Tango and the Hamilton foxtrot.

• 47:28Speaker 01

  Oh, the Hamilton.

• 47:28Speaker 02

  I love that dance, but I also loved the dance we did to the Green Day song. That was super cool.

• 47:33Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 47:34Alex Cooper?

  What's a dance move that almost got you injured in rehearsal?

• 47:38Speaker 02

  The Argentine Tango ending lift.

• 47:39Speaker 01

  I'm telling you right now that Argentine Tango, at least my knees, like, just bruises because when you do those little flickety-dickety's, like, you run into each other, and so the amount of bruises I had all over my legs.

• 47:52Speaker 02

  The trick at the end, you should like roll clip now, like, she does this like helicopter thing, and then her leg actually wraps around my knee and I go to the knee. I wore two kneepads.

• 48:03Alex Cooper?

  Or just like, I'm not going down.

• 48:04Speaker 02

  No, because of the speed it comes at, like, it's, you know, it's, it was a, I was very nervous all day. I was even, when my wife, my wife comes to the show and she hangs out with me before a little bit and she's like, how you doing? I was like, this one's, this one's high risk.

• 48:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:16Alex Cooper?

  This is a lot.

• 48:17Speaker 02

  So when we hit that final pose, I was like, yeah.

• 48:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I started laughing.

• 48:20Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 48:21Alex Cooper?

  What dance do you think the judges robbed you on?

• 48:25Alex Cooper?

  This is fun. This is fun. This is fun. We're not, it's not petty. I'm forcing them to answer it.

• 48:32Speaker 01

  Let's see.

• 48:32Alex Cooper?

  No one come for us.

• 48:37Speaker 01

  You want me to?

• 48:38Speaker 02

  No, I'm not saying, I did not, I did not.

• 48:41Alex Cooper?

  Wait, let me say it.

• 48:44Speaker 01

  Okay. I'm gonna say it.

• 48:47Speaker 02

  Go on. Whatever.

• 48:50Alex Cooper?

  You guys are so scarred from the internet, like, hating you that you're like, nothing, it was perfect.

• 48:56Speaker 01

  Okay, ask me again and I'll say it.

• 48:57Alex Cooper?

  Say it.

• 48:58Speaker 01

  Okay, um, I feel like the second time we did the cha-cha, when we did our last dance, like, I was like so honed in on that one, like, I thought for sure we were gonna get a perfect score. So that one for me, I was a bit bummed that we didn't get a perfect score on that one.

• 49:11Alex Cooper?

  Hey, well, Mark, you still have to answer.

• 49:14Speaker 02

  I mean, you know, I would probably, um...

• 49:20Speaker 02

  Uh, dang, yeah.

• 49:22Speaker 01

  Would you agree with me on the cha-cha?

• 49:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think, you know what, okay, I'll say this.

• 49:26Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 49:27Speaker 02

  I'll say this, because we got dropped to a nine on that dance. And nine, ten, ten is a great score, by the way.

• 49:32Speaker 01

  Right.

• 49:32Speaker 02

  Let's just get that out there.

• 49:33Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 49:35Speaker 01

  We love the judges.

• 49:37Speaker 02

  But like, it was the, I think, the comment of like, it was focusing too much on the technique. And I was like, okay, like, let me go back. As a, as a coach, that's my job. Let me go back and watch. And when I watched it, she was having the time of her life. That face was like lit up, so, you know.

• 49:51Alex Cooper?

  Interesting. No, that's a good answer.

• 49:53Speaker 01

  Who was the harshest judge? Ooh.

• 49:59Alex Cooper?

  And we're not putting this judge down, just like,

• 50:00Speaker 02

  No, I mean.

• 50:01Alex Cooper?

  The Simon Cowell of, like, who was the person you're like, oh, like, I need them to, I want them to.

• 50:05Speaker 01

  Mine, mine changed. Mine changed. In the beginning, I felt like it was Derek. And then towards the end, for me, it felt like it was Carrie Anne.

• 50:12Alex Cooper?

  What is your take, Mark, on all of the backlash that Carrie Anne did receive this past season? People commenting on her looks or like people commenting on?

• 50:22Speaker 02

  I hate that.

• 50:23Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 50:24Speaker 02

  Because Carrie Anne is a lovely person and, you know, I've known her a very long time and like, getting that, like, again, this is a fun dance competition show. It's meant to bring joy, it's meant to bring happiness. And she's been employed to judge and give her critiques and give her opinion. And obviously, again, taste is not a debatable subject and not everyone's going to agree with what she has to say. But I feel like tearing, you know, a woman down that's doing her job is never acceptable.

• 50:51Alex Cooper?

  We now need to get to the elimination.

• 50:54Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 50:54Alex Cooper?

  You both said you felt it coming.

• 50:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:57Alex Cooper?

  Was it because you didn't feel as good about your dance? Were you, were your heads about social media?

• 51:02Speaker 01

  No, like, I, I felt our dances were solid. Like, that, being these waltz that we did, like, that was one of my favorite dances that we've done. Like, I was so excited to perform that dance. It was just, it just felt off. Like, somebody just, it didn't feel like the other Tuesdays that we had had, like, it just felt off for me.

• 51:20Speaker 02

  One thing I'll tell you is like, I'm a, I'm an overrehearser. I like to rehearse to the point where it's just so ingrained in your body. I hate leaving things to chance. Might be old school, but that's how I was raised when I was dancing. It's just you rehearse it, rehearse it, rehearse it, so you don't have to think. And in between our first dance and second one, we were over at the other side running it through. And you got, I could, you were just emotional and like, I could tell that, um, You felt something. I kinda had to go into football coach mode at that point where I was just like, you can do that, you know, like backstage because I was starting to get worried that she's gonna go out there and blackout now.

• 51:58Alex Cooper?

  But you guys, we would be remiss to not acknowledge the fact that Secret Lives came out the week before. The internet is absolutely tearing you apart. Like, even if you were trying to put it to the back of your mind, how could it not be like somewhat in your body where you're going home, you're looking at your phone, you know what I mean?

• 52:17Speaker 01

  And I think too, like when we were on the backstage rehearsing it endlessly, I had felt like that this was our last dance, which in turn like made it a little bit more emotional.

• 52:30Alex Cooper?

  Interesting. Well, you guys scored a 58 out of 60 for your two performances, but America still sent you home, which was one of the highest scores that night. Why do you ultimately think that you were eliminated?

• 52:47Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 52:48Speaker 01

  Like, you mean like what led us like not getting the votes, you think?

• 52:54Speaker 01

  I don't know. I mean, I would, if I was speculating, I would say, yeah, maybe Secret Lives because it was such a huge divide. Like you either really loved me for that or you really hated me for that. So maybe it swayed some people. Like, I don't know.

• 53:09Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, what do you think?

• 53:11Speaker 02

  I've just done this for so long, like on dancing, like it's, I couldn't pinpoint it and I would hate to say it was Secret Lives or it was this because, you know, Secret Lives aside, again, I'm not too privy to all the stuff on that, but this show has had its fan base for 20 years. The show has been going now. Like we just had the 20th birthday for the show, you know, and we've had loyal fans that have been with us for a very long time.

• 53:40Speaker 02

  Sometimes this shit happens, you know? And it's like, I think with such a stacked cast and really great talent, great talent all around, you get to the point where we don't, we don't know the votes, like Whitney said earlier, but like, I'm assuming it's going like this. Like one week, someone might just have a number that really moves somebody. And maybe some week, someone who's been voting one way will be like, you know what? I'm gonna throw these votes this way. And I, I, I couldn't even pinpoint it to one thing. I think, you know, with the intensity of the show and how big it's gotten, which I love so much, you know, everybody's been getting like backlash online. It wasn't just us. Yes, ours was very intense, but when something's this big, I'm sure as you know,

• 54:25Speaker 02

  like there's always gonna be naysayers, there's always gonna be people like hating on you. I think there was just like a window of weeks where it was just like,

• 54:33Alex Cooper?

  Goddamn.

• 54:33Speaker 02

  Goddamn. Well, goddamn.

• 54:37Alex Cooper?

  Well, that's what I was gonna say because a lot of people online are like, you can't vote people off. So on Dancing with the Stars, the point is to vote for your favorite star and your favorite pair to advance in the competition. We all know that.

• 54:52Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 54:53Alex Cooper?

  But this season, maybe because of social media and how there are so many conversations going on on the side that maybe people weren't able to have in the past. But this season, people started to actively ban together online. And we're saying, let's vote for everyone.

• 55:13Speaker 02

  But, yes.

• 55:14Alex Cooper?

  Except for Whitney and Mark.

• 55:16Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 55:16Alex Cooper?

  And so there was a gamification happening where then technically you're like, no, so you are kind of trying to vote someone off because you're voting for everyone, not just your favorite star, everyone but you.

• 55:25Speaker 01

  Right.

• 55:26Alex Cooper?

  When did you guys first realize this was happening?

• 55:30Speaker 02

  Probably week five. Yeah, like because I was like, even for me, I've been on the show for so long. Like when I would see those comments, I'm like, oh, you must be new. Like you can't vote somebody off. Like that doesn't exist. However, over the years, the voting systems has changed. We used to have two shows, two shows a week, meaning there would be a results show the next day. We don't have that at the moment. And you know, the votes, when the show's live, you can vote, right? But then as the discourse continued, I did see like, oh, That's the loophole is that they vote for everyone but and I like honestly for me I was like a

• 56:07Speaker 02

  Oh moment after like again I always say there's not much that surprises me on this show because I've done it for so long that was that was new info for me I was like wow okay.

• 56:18Alex Cooper?

  How did that affect your dancing then you guys are in these rooms together trying your hardest to prepare but then you're also like The internet is literally gamifying this and finding the loophole of how to vote for everyone but I was like Did it affect your morale in terms of like is it even worth giving it our all if we know that this is The way it's gonna go.

• 56:42Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, like when they're laughing, you don't start crying.

• 56:45Speaker 01

  This is the thing like um and this is what's At least for me I was so grateful with this friendship is because there would be a day where maybe like it really got to me. And then Mark would be like no like let's let's keep working our asses off and just like Put great work out on that stage and then other days it would shift like and then Mark would be having a really hard day and I'm like No, let's work our asses off and like go put out some really great shit.

• 57:12Speaker 01

  Like luckily I feel like there was never a day where it was both of us because I think if it was ever at that point like that would have been really hard.

• 57:18Speaker 02

  I think the tipping point honestly for me was I was putting my son to bed. And like literally I was like putting him to bed and then as at like seconds after I did that I opened my phone to Just the wildest video.

• 57:36Alex Cooper?

  If you don't mind, could you share maybe some of the comments that got to you guys the most?

• 57:43Speaker 02

  I could read you one actually.

• 57:47Speaker 02

  It's

• 57:48Alex Cooper?

  The one that you just got?

• 57:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:49Alex Cooper?

  Oh, wow.

• 57:50Speaker 02

  It's wild.

• 57:51Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 57:52Speaker 02

  Um, this is really heavy. Do you?

• 57:53Alex Cooper?

  Do you? I'm ready.

• 57:55Speaker 02

  You can edit it out if you don't want, but like this is one that I just got like randomly.

• 58:00Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 58:00Speaker 02

  Like are you this is after one of our dances are you that cheap of a cunt to rot and do this damn your special you're completely worth this and I hope you fucking burn in hell one day.

• 58:12Speaker 02

  That's just one of them.

• 58:15Speaker 02

  And that's they're relentless like that.

• 58:22Speaker 02

  Over a dance show.

• 58:26Alex Cooper?

  Guys.

• 58:29Alex Cooper?

  Like, I actually just have like full body chills because I'm like, I understand, again, like, you're watching this through cameras and you're sitting at home and this is fun and it's the night before Thanksgiving and people are watching, but like, guys, this is like horrible shit. Over, again, a dance show. And I'm not even putting it down. It's like, keep in mind what it's supposed to be. It's supposed to bring people happiness and together and so to be sending that level of hatreds for what? What have you done?

• 58:58Speaker 02

  I think also the thing is, it's like,

• 59:02Speaker 02

  I think there's a narrative of like, well, you wanted to be in the entertainment industry. You signed up for this.

• 59:07Alex Cooper?

  No, you don't sign up for that.

• 59:08Speaker 02

  I didn't sign up for that.

• 59:09Alex Cooper?

  No, no human being signs up for that.

• 59:10Speaker 02

  I signed up to dance, to choreograph, to make music, to be on stage, to entertain people, to bring happiness, to bring joy.

• 59:14Alex Cooper?

  Mark, even if they said, "Your dance was horrible. I didn't like that dance. That wasn't good." Yes. Fair. Love that.

• 59:22Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 59:22Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 59:22Speaker 02

  Love that. I have dances where I watch mine back and I'm like, "I hate that. It's horrible."

• 59:27Alex Cooper?

  Not good. Not good.

• 59:28Speaker 02

  And that's the great, that's the fun part, right? It's like, art is meant to be subjective. I'm well aware, people aren't going to like everything that I make and that's okay.

• 59:36Alex Cooper?

  I'm really sorry, though. That's not healthy and that's not normal. And again, unveiling it, it's like, people can read what they want, but then they get to go to bed. You're sitting with your son and you're reading these things about yourself. And so then to get up the next morning and then now let's turn to you. What are some of the comments you were getting?

• 59:55Speaker 01

  I will say, I've definitely become a little bit more desensitized to it.

• 59:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:00Speaker 01

  Because I've experienced it for years. But I think like, what was a little bit triggering was watching someone experience that for the first time. For something, for what? Like, it just, it made no sense to me. And then I also at times felt like it was my fault because I was like, oh, like, maybe it's because... Maybe it's because of me, maybe it's because he's partnered with me. So then it felt like my fault, like it was just like a roller coaster of emotions like during that time.

• 1:00:38Alex Cooper?

  A large conversation about you was that you are too opportunistic and that you wanted to win too badly. And you were quote arrogant. How does that make you feel when you hear that back?

• 1:00:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I'm gonna be honest with you, I never thought I was winning Dancing with the Stars. I really didn't.

• 1:00:55Speaker 02

  We really knew that.

• 1:00:56Speaker 01

  We knew that. Like, we just,

• 1:01:01Speaker 01

  but I wanted that experience. And I would hope that anyone that had a dream or something that they want in their life or experience that they want, that they would go after it. Not to put anyone down along the way, but to go after it. And that's what I've always, that's how I've always been. It's like, oh, I'm, this is something that I want in my life. This is some, this is a dream that I have. I'm going to,

• 1:01:26Speaker 01

  while, while still having my morals and values, go after that.

• 1:01:29Alex Cooper?

  I think there was a lot of people online that were supporters of you that came out.

• 1:01:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:34Alex Cooper?

  That started to say, this is beyond misogynistic. We're calling her arrogant. We'd call a man ambitious. Like, her coming out on Secret Lives being like, yeah, I want to do this show. It really rubbed people clearly the wrong way to have a woman be so centered and sure of herself and know what she wants and to go for it. And I'm curious, like, do you think, had you been a little bit more shy and demure and quiet and just like overly grateful, grateful, do you think that paired with your dancing abilities, you would have had just a better outcome on social media for yourself?

• 1:02:11Speaker 01

  You mean if I was a man?

• 1:02:15Speaker 01

  If I was a man, then yeah, I think it would have been fine. I think they would have said, fuck yeah, you go after that.

• 1:02:22Alex Cooper?

  Meanwhile, you're like, but I'm not.

• 1:02:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I'm not.

• 1:02:24Alex Cooper?

  We start all crying.

• 1:02:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm a mom with three kids and,

• 1:02:27Alex Cooper?

  It just doesn't work.

• 1:02:28Speaker 01

  It just doesn't work. And to be honest, like when the, when the show was gonna air, when I knew, I knew the show was going to air after the semifinals, which again, didn't even think we were gonna make it even that far. But, um,

• 1:02:44Speaker 01

  I didn't know how it was gonna be received.

• 1:02:49Speaker 01

  But it was half and half. And yeah, it would be interesting if I was a man saying that on Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, I would be curious to know how that would be received.

• 1:02:58Alex Cooper?

  I agree.

• 1:02:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:00Alex Cooper?

  Can we talk about the cast a little bit? Because I agree, there was hatred happening. Again, you guys were the crux of it all and you objectively got it the worst in terms of hate. But were you talking about this with cast members in terms of what you were going through?

• 1:03:15Speaker 01

  A lot of people were going through it. I definitely feel like it was a really heightened for us specifically. But it was like, nice to have that camaraderie or like relate with other people. Or it's like, bro, you can just say you didn't like the dance. Like, you don't need to say, go even farther than that. Like, a lot of people felt it this season.

• 1:03:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think the pros, we all kind of like chatted about it too. Because again, like, a lot of us have been on the show a long time and this is new waters to navigate. And, you know, we've all known each other a long time. We work well together, we dance together, like, we're friends. So, yeah, we, there was definitely some conversations about how to navigate, you know?

• 1:03:53Alex Cooper?

  Mark, people online were speculating that you won't come back after everything you two went through this season. They're like, you guys ruined it, we're never gonna get back. Where do you currently stand?

• 1:04:04Speaker 02

  I mean, again, like, I, I, I love the show, I love creating on the show. Um, even after my season with Charlie, like, they had me come in and guest judge one day. And then I got to dance with Derek, um, the season before. I was in between, like, still working through that injury stuff. Because there's a difference between doing like a spotlight performance and then doing a full season. Like, you have to be right for that, because injuries will creep up on you, like. Um, but I, I wouldn't say that I'm like, you know, of course, this one's just finished. So like, I need to sleep for a little bit.

• 1:04:34Alex Cooper?

  Give me a breather. Right, you're like, I've learned not to say it right when it ends.

• 1:04:37Speaker 02

  But I'll have a, I'll have a chat with Rob.

• 1:04:38Alex Cooper?

  So TV.

• 1:04:41Alex Cooper?

  He's like, you're coming back. Okay, Whitney.

• 1:04:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:46Alex Cooper?

  Is there anything you would like to say to, as we kind of wrap up this part of the conversation, to people who actively, really, really, essentially gained a hatred for you throughout this process? And when you guys got eliminated, quote said, "The war is over, she's gone." Like, do you have anything that you would want to say to those people?

• 1:05:06Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:05:11Speaker 01

  I don't know, because what I'd want to say is fuck you.

• 1:05:13Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:05:15Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:05:17Alex Cooper?

  But even just that, I think that I don't know one person, because I get it, you're like, I don't want to I don't know one person who wouldn't say that. Fuck you. My mental health. You're reading this message. You're with your children. You're trying to have a fun time. I think, again, I'm just sitting here. I have a show and I love to sit with people, but now I've been doing this for too long, that I have sat with people after people after people on reality television who look me in the eyes and are depleted, are exhausted, and are like, I want to give entertainment. I'm down for the jokes. I'm down for the banter. I'm down for some like, hard comments that I'm like, oh shit, like, my outfit didn't look as good, or my whatever. My dance wasn't good. But I, I am starting to begin to believe that it's like, we have to turn the

• 1:06:02Alex Cooper?

  conversation to the people watching where it's like, at what point are we all the problem? And we are creating this thing online that is like, it's not fun anymore, guys. Where I'm sitting with two human beings right now and I'm gonna, I hope I don't continue, but I already know it's gonna happen with Love Island. I'll be, next summer, you'll see me tuning in and some woman is gonna sit across from me and say, my mental health is so fucking broken because the internet has taken a reality show, which is so entertaining. We love reality shows, but they have taken it and they've created something out of it that I am, that it's like you murdered someone's family and it, and it's become, it's become too real. It's become too big.

• 1:06:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:42Alex Cooper?

  And so to sit in these moments and just be like, hey, yes, fuck you. It's not that deep.

• 1:06:49Speaker 01

  Just the domino effect of even the hate online, then maybe strive to be the person to be the domino effect to not be the hate online. Maybe try to say a little bit more positive things. Maybe try to...

• 1:07:05Speaker 01

  Not have the intention to tear someone down and create that domino effect because it's so crazy. Like even with week five, when that hate happened, like it just took that one video. Or it took that two comments and then it creates a domino effect. Well, okay. Well, then let's create the other domino effect.

• 1:07:25Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. I hope that's what comes from this conversation. And I think meeting you guys and hanging out with you, it's like you're not trying to be victims. And I want to make that very clear. We're not all sitting here being like this is, but it is, needs to be a conversation. This is getting absolutely out of hand.

• 1:07:41Speaker 02

  That was part of the experience. That's that simple. Like, you know.

• 1:07:43Alex Cooper?

  Totally. That was part of the experience. I hope, again, I don't think this one conversation will change it, but again, maybe it will make people think maybe let's try to be a little bit different and have a little bit of a different effect. And maybe as fun as it is to post the comment and then you go off with your family. It's sitting with the actual people that you're writing about and just be more thoughtful about that.

• 1:08:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:06Alex Cooper?

  To turn things a little bit more positive, because you're both so talented. Okay. So we have TBD on if we're gonna get you back on Dancing with the Stars. We'll let you like ice your body and like do some like saunas and like relax. Whitney.

• 1:08:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:22Alex Cooper?

  Whitney.

• 1:08:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, girl.

• 1:08:26Alex Cooper?

  There's a lot of speculation online right now. There's people zooming in on you. Why is she in New York? What is the paper she's holding?

• 1:08:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:35Alex Cooper?

  What's going on, girl? What can you tease for us?

• 1:08:38Speaker 01

  Ooh, what can I tease?

• 1:08:40Alex Cooper?

  People want you on Broadway. People want you in, people want you everywhere.

• 1:08:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:47Speaker 01

  Okay, there's two things I'll tease.

• 1:08:49Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 1:08:49Speaker 01

  One, I did just book my first movie, which is really exciting.

• 1:08:55Alex Cooper?

  Holy shit.

• 1:08:55Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:08:56Alex Cooper?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:08:57Speaker 01

  And then two,

• 1:09:00Speaker 01

  I'm gonna be announcing on Monday, but what I can say is a dance that Mark and I performed on Dancing with the Stars, a dance that we performed too on Dancing with the Stars is gonna come to life.

• 1:09:16Speaker 01

  And I'll, everyone's gonna know on Monday.

• 1:09:19Alex Cooper?

  You realize right now the internet is gonna be like, she got it. She did it. We'll wait for you to announce when you're ready to announce. Okay.

• 1:09:31Alex Cooper?

  The fans are distraught. The fans are distraught because they wanted a freestyle dance.

• 1:09:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:38Alex Cooper?

  They're like, how are we not gonna see a Mark and Whitney freestyle dance? This doesn't make sense. They're like, even if they didn't win, we needed, at least just give us that. At least let us see the dance. And so, I don't know if anyone's noticed, but

• 1:09:57Alex Cooper?

  we are currently sitting in the middle of a dance floor.

• 1:10:03Alex Cooper?

  And I was wondering if Whitney and Mark, you would do us the absolute honor of performing your freestyle last dance.

• 1:10:18Speaker 02

  It would be a pleasure.

• 1:10:34Alex Cooper?

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