Bethenny Frankel: Hustling, Housewives, & Online Hate

Join Alex in the studio for an interview with Bethenny Frankel. Bethenny discusses being a hustler, a reality TV star, a polarizing public figure, and a businesswoman. She also opens up about how she’s healed and processed her traumatic childhood and most toxic relationships. Enjoy!

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Alex Cooper?

  Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Southern New Hampshire University. Daddy gang, let's get real, okay? We like to make our own rules. Southern New Hampshire University gets it. They let you learn what you want with over 200 career-focused programs, where you want with 100% online courses, and how you want with no set class times. Basically, you get to call the shots from day one. Visit SNHU.edu/callherdaddy to learn more. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Bright by Scotch Bright. Daddy gang, a lot of us obviously take pride in where we live, right? We want the decor to look good, and then we want the lighting and the cleaning and all of it. And you want it to look spotless, and you want it to look really nice, right?

• 0:43Alex Cooper?

  So level up your clean routine with Bright's line of sponges. Use the Palm Scrubber with a comfy grip for serious scrubs, the easy-to-fill, leak-proof dish wand to keep hands out of the mess, or the Scrub and Wipe for a scrubbing side and a SudSing side. All three look good, scrub great, and they come with handy drain and dry stands that are super compact and cute. Hook yourself up, boost it with Bright. Shop now. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Pandora Jewelry. Make their holiday unforgettable with a gift that says it all from Pandora Jewelry. I feel like the best gifts are always the ones that feel really personal, right?

• 1:27Alex Cooper?

  Like, anyone can buy you something nice, but when someone gives you a gift that is actually meaningful, you appreciate it so much more. And that's what I do love about Pandora. They have so many pieces that you can really just make your own, from festive charms to personalized engravings and jewelry that can represent the people and the moments that mean the most to you. So whether you're shopping for your partner, or your mom, your best friend, you can find something that really is specific to them. Maybe it's a charm that makes you think of the trip that you guys took together once, or maybe it's an engraving for your anniversary, or just a piece that feels like them the second you see it. Pandora makes it so easy to get.

• 2:10Alex Cooper?

  Give a gift that feels thoughtful and personal and makes every holiday moment even more meaningful and special because at the end of the day, the best gifts aren't just about the piece itself, but it's the intention and the story behind them. Say more this holiday season with Pandora. Shop now at pandora.net or visit your closest Pandora store. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Uber. Uber just introduced a new feature called Women Preferences, which lets women riders request a woman driver directly in the app. It's honestly an amazing feature that gives women more control over their rides. Sometimes we all just want a ride that feels a little more comfortable and chill. So if you haven't used it yet, Uber's new Women Preferences feature is available now in the Uber app. Learn more on the Uber app.

• 2:57Speaker 01

  What is up daddy gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy.

• 3:06Alex Cooper?

  Bethany Franco, welcome to Call Her Daddy.

• 3:07Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 3:08Alex Cooper?

  You look stunning. Had we picked the outfit?

• 3:10Speaker 01

  Thank you. I, I, I don't, it just arrived at some point in the last six months and I just park it and my outfits are like Toy Story, like they're just waiting to be played with. And so I just, this is the one I picked out today. I thought it was very you.

• 3:23Alex Cooper?

  It's perfect. Wait, what are you doing in LA?

• 3:26Speaker 01

  Um, what was I doing yesterday? Oh, I was doing a commercial for Synergy kombucha with Flava Flav yesterday.

• 3:33Alex Cooper?

  Oh, how's Flava Flav doing?

• 3:35Speaker 01

  Um, he's the best. He's great. He was really fun. I met him on my podcast before.

• 3:40Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 3:40Speaker 01

  And he's really cool and really fun. So we had a great time, spent the day with him.

• 3:44Alex Cooper?

  Fun. Yeah. Okay. Wait, do you like LA?

• 3:46Speaker 01

  I lived here for 10 years, minimum, and as a kid as well. And I do like LA. I mean, I don't like it now as much, but I appreciate it and I'm enjoying it. It's like, it's definitely feels, it feels very virally, like all the cutesy places and the cookies and the things. And there's 75 matcha places and boba and acai and playa and like, so I like that. You come here to be, you know, to overpay for coffee and I'm into it.

• 4:12Alex Cooper?

  100%. No, I like it weirdly more now living here than I thought that I would, but I think it's similar to New York where I think you have a better time living in New York than visiting New York because you don't know where to go when you're in New York. And so you just go to all the viral places, but you're not like going to the dive bars in West Village and knowing the little pockets, which I've learned about in LA now.

• 4:30Speaker 01

  Well, that's funny. Okay. So when I lived in LA, I loved it. Coming back to visit, it can be strange to your point because you're coming and sort of just being in a hotel and it's so. Big.

• 4:40Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 4:41Speaker 01

  That you don't know where you're supposed to be. You have some FOMO in a way.

• 4:44Alex Cooper?

  So you're like on the Sunset Strip and you're like, wait, why am I here?

• 4:47Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 4:48Alex Cooper?

  Okay, wait, you have a house in the Hamptons.

• 4:51Speaker 01

  I have a house in the Hamptons.

• 4:52Alex Cooper?

  You moved to Miami.

• 4:54Speaker 01

  I have a, I have a place in Manhattan and the Hamptons. I have a place in Miami and then further north in Florida.

• 5:01Alex Cooper?

  Do you like living in Florida?

• 5:03Speaker 01

  I love living in Florida.

• 5:04Alex Cooper?

  Really?

• 5:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:05Alex Cooper?

  Tell me everything.

• 5:06Speaker 01

  So I'm a beach person. I'm a water sign and I'm a water person and I, walking is the only thing I do for exercise and the beach, to walk on the beach every day. It's the, it's one of the only times. Yoga, which I don't do that often, but when I do yoga, at the end, I say, thank you. Like I actually say, thank you. Just every time I can't help myself, when it's done, I thank myself. And I'm not like faux spiritual like that. I just actually, it comes to me. So every time I do a beach walk, I say, I am so grateful. I can't believe I get to do this. I can't believe I'm swimming in the ocean every day. It feels like a dream.

• 5:39Alex Cooper?

  You are?

• 5:40Speaker 01

  Every day. I'm in the, so it's healing and I just feel like, I, I feel so lucky.

• 5:45Alex Cooper?

  Well, I, because I feel like I was gonna ask you, Miami just gives such like, party nightlife energy. Are you partaking?

• 5:52Speaker 01

  Not really. I only go if it's like, paid or laid. Do you know what I mean? Like if I'm, if it's an event, and it's a moment, or if it's like a date, but I'm not just like randomly on a Tuesday, getting dressed up like a hoe to go out to dinner.

• 6:05Alex Cooper?

  Are you going to 11?

• 6:07Speaker 01

  I've been to 11 once after the Sports Illustrated show. That's it.

• 6:10Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 6:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's not really, no, I don't wanna be out all night. I, I, I'm work and I'm with my daughter for most of the, for the most part, it's work and my daughter.

• 6:17Alex Cooper?

  Do, do you have, like, have you enjoyed strip clubs before or no?

• 6:21Speaker 01

  I, in New York, I've enjoyed strip clubs and a good strip club is amazing. And shockingly, strip clubs have good steak.

• 6:29Alex Cooper?

  Wait, what?

• 6:30Speaker 01

  Well, like there was a place in New York, I think it was called Penthouse VIP and they had an excellent steak and it would make sense because the clientele for an upscale strip joint, would be, would want a big.

• 6:40Alex Cooper?

  Oh, that's a good point. Steak. I've never thought to order food while I'm at a strip club. That's a good, that's a good point. I'm gonna try that next time.

• 6:46Speaker 01

  I mean, goals.

• 6:46Alex Cooper?

  I'm gonna get a big porterhouse.

• 6:48Speaker 01

  To do list.

• 6:48Alex Cooper?

  Let's go with a gray ass in my face.

• 6:51Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 6:51Alex Cooper?

  Fucking lovely.

• 6:51Speaker 01

  Well, it's basically the surf and the turf. Sorry.

• 6:54Alex Cooper?

  Love this for us. Hamptons, you recently said that you kind of were not feeling the vibes. The Hamptons are like weird vibes now, like what has changed?

• 7:04Speaker 01

  Well, I, I mean, it's sort of the way that LA has changed. The vibes are off because of the entertainment industry. And so LA, I mean, the Hamptons, I love the Hamptons and I used to go year round and it's an amazing place that's very misunderstood because if you don't live there, you don't understand it and you try to visit and dip into like the nightlife and it's wrong. You have to live there to understand it. So just from observing it, it's the traffic for everyone. I don't experience it that much because like I said, I'm there year round and during the week, but I'm observing the fact that people are just saying they don't want to leave their house because all the influencers, you're, you're welcome, I mean guilty, have, have ruined it for many people, but it's, it's fine.

• 7:48Speaker 01

  Real estate's up more than ever and the Hamptons are always going to be great.

• 7:51Alex Cooper?

  We met in the Hamptons. That's how we met.

• 7:55Speaker 01

  What are you talking about?

• 7:56Alex Cooper?

  My 30th birthday.

• 7:58Speaker 01

  Oh, that was the first time we met.

• 7:59Alex Cooper?

  You're, you're thinking I'm going all the way back like I'm about to trick you like one day I was at a coffee shop. And you were a cunt and you're like, fuck.

• 8:07Speaker 01

  I came to your party intentionally, like to, I just was excited.

• 8:11Alex Cooper?

  It was so lovely. I remember you showing up and it was such a crazy configuration of where the VIP section was. So like all the VIPs kind of had to go through the entire section of all of these fans, which was so fun to just see people like uproar whenever someone showed up. And I just hear people screaming your name. We had never met before. You showed up. What was your first impression of me?

• 8:34Speaker 01

  My first impression, I think you had like, did you have a bandana on your head backwards or whatever? So you had a bandana on your head and you seemed so genuinely happy to engage with everyone. Like you were very positive. You were giving them a positive experience, which I really appreciated. It was hot and everyone wanted to talk to you. And I later. Uh, what's the show that you're obsessed with? The, the show with all the, Love Island?

• 8:57Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 8:57Speaker 01

  I didn't know, I've never seen the show, but my daughter in a video of me saw the two, the, the Rob and the girl. And so she was freaking out and a lot of people I knew there, a lot of the, the gays I know from the Hamptons were there. So I had a, I actually had a great time and it was like a, it was like a drive by, but it was like really satisfying.

• 9:15Alex Cooper?

  It was fun. I felt the same way about you where like you have this aura and this energy that when you walk into a room, it was so cool to see you basically kind of show up alone and you were able to immediately mingle, hang out with everyone, talk with everyone. And I was like, oh, that's my kind of person where like you can fit in any room and people are going to gravitate towards you, which I love. Um, what would it take for someone to have you have a bad first impression of them?

• 9:39Speaker 01

  Um, an energy, a negative, a better than, a put upon. You know, but by the way, that can happen if someone's distracted and people do, as a public person, people do read into the first moment, which is why you do have to make an extra effort because just a nuance, just something just happened to you before can make you, you, you distracted or, you know, I've had people come up to me to take a picture in a bathroom and it's been a little jarring. And I've been like, can we just have a minute? And then they might, then I don't see them and I'm like running through the airport to like, can you cut? Cause I feel like I have to fix it.

• 10:12Alex Cooper?

  Right. Cause they're going to be like, Bethany Frankel's a fucking asshole. And you're like, babe, I was just finishing putting the tampon up my vagina, but I was quickly just trying to.

• 10:18Speaker 01

  That horse has left the barn, but yeah. No, but also just for me, it's that mo, their moment and like I, I don't, you know, and it's funny because I've seen videos on social media about people talking about influencers that like influencer trips or influencer this. And I have, I won't spill the tea on exactly who, because I just, there's no upside for that. But like, I have seen some of these younger girls act like that. And I can't imagine why they would like, you know, you're out, they can't help themselves. I can see the, listen, I'm so much older than these young girls, but I see between them, the competition is fierce. I was just at this Amazon party and there were literally hundreds of influencers and I saw.

• 10:57Alex Cooper?

  It's dark.

• 10:58Speaker 01

  Full frontal cuntiness, like.

• 10:59Alex Cooper?

  It's really crazy to walk. No, no, actually, because it's crazy to see. I agree with you. I've met some people where I'm like, whoa, like. Okay, like, and then you wonder how long they're gonna make it in the industry because then you go to their page and they're so different online than when you meet them, you're like, oh shit.

• 11:15Speaker 01

  And I've seen them really turn it on for like the brands, but be really bitchy to the other people and I've seen it, I've seen it.

• 11:22Alex Cooper?

  And it's also like, I guess this is life, this goes past our industry, there are people at work that like suck up to the boss and then they're a fucking dick in the room that everyone's hanging out in and you're just like, you gotta suss people out and it's interesting.

• 11:32Speaker 01

  But when you're seeing millions of people think it's one thing and you know it's another, it's, it's very triggering.

• 11:39Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, I agree with you.

• 11:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:40Alex Cooper?

  Um, okay, you recently went on a podcast and I feel like the internet had basically something to say for every single thing that you said.

• 11:49Speaker 01

  I know.

• 11:50Alex Cooper?

  It was a lot. What, why do you think you got so much backlash, commentary?

• 11:55Speaker 01

  Well, it's why there's almost no upside for me to do podcasts, but then everyone's saying, you know, and, and you do them and you know every sentence because the person who has the podcast, yourself included, is going to wanna feed out the comments that are gonna get them, you're here for a business. So, so, um, I'm polarizing, it's what it is. And no, and actually I think it's great if they stop talking, if they stop talking, start worrying. And also like, I can't believe that at this age, at this stage, things I say are still so relevant and so they, they, they generate views. So good, it's business, it's business.

• 12:31Alex Cooper?

  I was gonna ask you, in, aside from that podcast, like, do you in general read into the comments or do you not care as much?

• 12:37Speaker 01

  No, I mean, it depends on what side of the social media I'm on. I don't have a Google alert on myself, so I'll just see it from flipping, from going through TikTok and then I'll see something and people will go, but yeah, and it's different comments that get picked up. But, uh, I don't, I don't care, I don't really care at all unless I think I did something wrong. You know, if I think I did something wrong, or if I could have hurt someone, then I care because I don't wanna drag them into something I've said. But, and not everything needs to be said, you know, not everything needs to be said, but I don't really ultimately care.

• 13:10Alex Cooper?

  I don't think you can to some degree if you want to last in this industry because I think, I remember like years ago, I would talk about it with my therapist and she helped me literally be like, that is like your Sims character online. And like when people are talking about her and hating on her, if you know you didn't actually do anything wrong and it's misconceptions, okay, so then your character is like over here for the day. And then as you continue, it's going to be like this for the day. Like, I know who I am. And then there's also the perception online that can happen. And if it gets spun in a way that you didn't have control over, then what are you going to do? They're talking about you.

• 13:42Speaker 01

  It's not real, though. You live, you have a primary residence inside TikTok, as do I. And you have a secondary residence in Instagram, okay? And you have tertiary residences other places. But this is your primary residence.

• 13:52Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 13:52Speaker 01

  So you think that everybody else lives in that town and they don't. So it's not really real. I've had actors, like A-list actors, call me, I could think of five, I'll tell you after, you'll freak. To be like, wait, how do you deal with this? I'm like, deal with what? And someone's like, well, this happened and this was on this podcast and then it got picked up on TikTok today. And I go, okay, who cares? And he's like, this was a he, he's like, well, should I say something? I go, no, what are you going to add a can of gas? No, this isn't real. He's like, but it was in page, no, this is happening.

• 14:21Alex Cooper?

  If you turn your phone off and you go down the street, it doesn't exist. It literally doesn't matter.

• 14:26Speaker 01

  So he doesn't have a residence here. So he doesn't know. He thinks because he's in here. I'm like, no, this isn't happening on the other blocks.

• 14:33Alex Cooper?

  You can literally just shut it off and go to the party and no one will know. No one will even bring it up. Even if they know, they won't bring it up in person.

• 14:39Speaker 01

  Even in business, I've been selling books, thinking I'm going to walk in there and the pages, like, what are you talking about? They don't care about that.

• 14:45Alex Cooper?

  A hate view, a like view, it's a view as a view. You can't differentiate if it was someone hating or loving. It doesn't fucking matter. It's a view as a view, a talk as a talk, like people commenting on you. It's like, it's all good for business because we're both business women and that's all we care about.

• 14:56Speaker 01

  100%.

• 14:57Alex Cooper?

  As long as you know yourself.

• 14:58Speaker 01

  100%. The more hate posts that are going on about you, the more views you're getting. I mean, even in like on a podcast, yeah. So it's the upside down.

• 15:22Alex Cooper?

  Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Airbnb. Okay, I am well into my third trimester now, so I haven't really been able to travel because I need to stay close to my doctor. But spending all this time at home has made me start thinking about all the places that I want to go once the baby is here. I have literally been sitting on my couch with the TV on, scrolling through Airbnb and planning trips. I am nowhere ready to take yet, but suddenly my vacation priorities, I will say, are completely different. Like, does the house have enough bedrooms? Is there a big kitchen? Does the furniture look baby safe? Or is every table covered in, you know, sharp corners? And obviously, we need an extra room for my mom, who has already made it very clear

• 16:07Alex Cooper?

  that she will not be leaving my side. She's like, "I got you, I'm the babysitter, okay?" And now that it is October, I'm picturing cooler weather, cozy sweaters, oh my God, maybe a little cottage where we can escape for a little weekend. That's what I love about booking a home on Airbnb. Whether you're traveling with family, friends, or your partner, everyone has space to relax while still being together. Even if you're traveling for a concert or a game, you have one place where everyone can get together and convene after. Before the holiday season gets busy, treat yourself to one more fall getaway and check out Airbnb while you're planning it. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by My Mochi.

• 16:48Alex Cooper?

  Everyone is talking about Dubai chocolate, chocolate with pistachio flavored cream. Well, now, Mochi Ice Cream has its own version of Dubai chocolate. Spoiler alert, guys, it's delicious. My Mochi Dubai Chocolate Ice Cream is premium pistachio flavored ice cream with kudaiyev and chocolatey flavored bits wrapped in sweet chewy chocolate flavored dough. It's only 80 calories per piece, nut-free, and easy to share because it comes in a box with six individual snacks. I am obsessed with Maimochi. And when you give me that plus a good chocolate, I'm gonna have that in my freezer.

• 17:32Alex Cooper?

  Every single night, I'm gonna pop one in. I am obsessed. I love it so much. Taste the joy with every bite of Maimochi Ice Cream. Look for the green and brown box of Maimochi Dubai Chocolate Ice Cream in the freezer aisle of your local grocery store. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Shopify. Daddy gang, you know, I'm a little skeptical of the internet at times, aren't we all? But one thing I absolutely love is how much easier it has made starting a business. No matter what stage you're at, Shopify is the best place to start and grow a business. With Shopify, you get to own your storefront while still being discovered everywhere from Google to YouTube to the shop app.

• 18:16Alex Cooper?

  They also let you sell across TikTok, Instagram, Pinterest, even directly inside AI chats. So your customers can shop wherever they already are and your products can appear directly alongside content. So as someone is scrolling, they just become part of their feed. Shopify truly makes it so much easier for customers to discover and buy products wherever they're browsing. And this has been such a game changer for Unwell. I love being able to sell merch directly on all the Call Her Daddy channels. So everything is in one place for the daddy gang. So, ready to add entrepreneur to your list of accomplishments? Head to Shopify.com/daddy. That's Shopify.com/daddy.

• 19:00Alex Cooper?

  I wanted to talk a little bit more about your childhood because I was thinking about it and this is you, I think I have so much respect for you where you've had so many different lives in the public, right? And so there are people that are watching today that may be like, okay, I'm millennial girly. I loved her on Housewives. I love her so much. And then there are girls that are like, I'm Gen Z. I literally know her from her fucking supermodels. I was like, what do you mean? Like she was a housewife? Like, what do you mean? So I want to go back a little bit. Where were you born and raised?

• 19:28Speaker 01

  I went to 13 different schools, but I was born in Queens and then was in Long Island. And was lit, did live in California as a child, Florida for boarding school for two years. I've lived many places, New York City.

• 19:43Alex Cooper?

  It's a lot.

• 19:43Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 19:44Alex Cooper?

  You were four years old when your parents got divorced. How was that explained to you?

• 19:48Speaker 01

  Uh, I don't think that it was explained to me. It wasn't explained to me. It was, I was moving back and forth. As a matter of fact, my real father was a horse trainer and there were a lot of like unsavory cocaine characters around and young women taking care of me. And my mother was with another horse trainer, my stepfather in New York. And she asked my father for child support, but he said that he would only pay her if I was with him. So I was like, sort of like a pawn back and forth. And I remember being very, very sad and wanting to be with her. And then I entered into the crazy life of her and my

• 20:28Speaker 01

  stepfather, which was extremely crazy and extremely abusive and a lot of interesting.

• 20:34Alex Cooper?

  So with your father, talk to me about your relationship with him. Like, what did you think of him?

• 20:39Speaker 01

  Um, I think you just love your parents because they're all that you know. And you don't know that you're growing up at the racetrack and with all these unsavory characters. But I did know that I really, I did miss, I did want to be with my mother. Um, and he, I didn't speak to him, I don't think from the time that I was four to like 13, for the most part.

• 21:01Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 21:02Speaker 01

  He was a horse trainer. My stepfather was a horse trainer, a horse trainer. So, you know, like Derby, like racehorses. So there was a lot of competition between them and they'd, obviously they'd run together as buddies. So she was with both of them and she was stunning. She actually looked just like Michelle Pfeiffer in Scarface at that time. And she did a lot of wear and tear on her body over the years and didn't look like that in the end. But she was very, very charismatic and beautiful and everyone wanted to be with her. So there was that between them and it was like constant, I was like a pawn and there was a lot of competition between them over the course of my life.

• 21:35Alex Cooper?

  13 years old, you reconnect with your dad. You said like, did you, was there anything you admired about him or you saw in yourself? Or was it very polarizing?

• 21:43Speaker 01

  To be honest, I knew that he was this Hall of Fame famous horse trainer and he lived in California. And so there was something like rich and intriguing about him. Like I would watch movies like 16 Candles or Pretty in Pink and want to be in this life and live with him, but he didn't really want me per se. And I didn't, I kind of, I didn't want to be in either world. I, I, I sort of fantasized about the life with him that I didn't have just because of movies, but it, it really wasn't like that.

• 22:17Alex Cooper?

  So are you, you're an only child?

• 22:18Speaker 01

  I'm an only child.

• 22:19Alex Cooper?

  Okay. So that's like full pawn.

• 22:23Speaker 01

  They weren't really fighting about me, only at certain big ticket item times, like for

• 22:28Alex Cooper?

  Like child support.

• 22:29Speaker 01

  For over child support and over my real father seeing me in winner's circle pictures with my stepfather. And it was, yeah, I mean, I kind of really wished that my real father wanted me and he didn't. And then my stepfather told me that my mother never wanted me. And she had me on her 20th birthday, which is why usually my birthday is challenging. And this year it was a breakthrough. So, and it actually was related to her and like brought back a lot of that. So, um,

• 22:58Alex Cooper?

  Oh, Bethany, it's a lot. It's a lot.

• 23:01Speaker 01

  I don't think it's a lot. And then you ask it like that. And I think it's a lot. So, yeah.

• 23:04Alex Cooper?

  I mean, it's a lot because I'm also hearing like your stepfather and your dad, like there's like this like pissing competition between two men and you're, yes, kind of this pawn that it's kind of like who

• 23:17Speaker 01

  It wasn't about me.

• 23:18Alex Cooper?

  Right. But it was about them, but then they used you to make it. And it seemed like to them, they were like, oh, it's about, but it's not about, it was about them.

• 23:25Speaker 01

  Yes. And they were all very, very messed up characters, like really like equally messed up people.

• 23:35Alex Cooper?

  When you had to go live with your mom and your stepfather, how was that?

• 23:40Speaker 01

  Uh, my mother was stunning and her deadliest sin was vanity. I'm not, I'm not, I was talking to Chris Appleton today about this. I'm not a vain person, meaning like now I've made, I make more of an effort and, but I'm not intrinsically a very vain person. I think that's actually evident in a lot of my social, my content. Like you see, I don't care, like, so I'm not intrinsically a vain person. And my mother was vain to a fault. So she had a lifelong eating disorder. And I caught her for the first time when I was seven years old. She was throwing up and she used to binge on everything and sauces and, and like torture waiters if it didn't come out like raw and like, it was just like a constant like torment about her and then she'd be in the bathroom for hours after every meal.

• 24:25Speaker 01

  So my mother was a lifelong bulimic, alcoholic, cigarette smoker. And she always wanted to be a model. Uh, and her sister was six feet tall and always wanted to be a jockey. And my mother was five, four. So she, and back then you couldn't be five, four and be a model. Um, so she was very vain and that was a big character in my childhood. And she married, um, an Italian horse trainer who had a lot of mob ties and would like tell us that we had to move from one house to another and that, and there were like, there were, he had, there were guns in the house, in the car and like, he was, she would go out to Studio 54 till all hours and he, and then she would like punch her fist through the wind, window because he wouldn't let her in.

• 25:09Speaker 01

  And the, I would have to call the cops and he would physically abuse her with the phone. And it was, we, I, after she died, I gaslit myself, like blaming myself for a lot of these, a lot of things. And I had to call friends from my childhood after the funeral to say like, what was it like? And they were trying to be polite because you don't speak ill of the dead. And they were like, well, she had a lot of interesting characters around and you're how, and I go, no, I need you to tell me because I'm now gaslighting myself because I read a letter she, one letter she wrote that was nice to me. And now it's all my fault. And my friend Matt from high school was like, no, your house was criminally insane. Like they were calling child services and there were cops there all the time. Like that was not a house to be in. So.

• 25:50Speaker 01

  Um, it was a chat, it was a very, um, there was a big transformation in me in the last year since my mother passed away. I like really went through something.

• 25:59Alex Cooper?

  I have a, um, someone in my life that had that similar when their mother died. It was this weird feeling of I'm weirdly relieved and that's the most fucked up thing to say, but I'm having weird things of like, was she as bad as I remembered or was it me? And like you go through this because you essentially have to dissociate when you're in those environments at that young of an age and you're just trying to survive. And then as you come to more reality and slowly start to piece it together, you're like, was this as bad as I remembered? And to believe that your parent could be as

• 26:36Alex Cooper?

  tough as it was, you naturally probably are going to defend your parents in your mind. Cause what else are you gonna do now?

• 26:42Speaker 01

  It's more that you're clinging to some version of purity in your childhood. But what actually happened was in mourning my mother's death, I was like a dog that just like was by myself in my bed and it was wild that I just one day just started turning on all the music of my childhood, like all the Karen Carpenter, all the, which is ironic because she died of an eating disorder, but all the seventies music, the James Taylor, the, uh, the Carole King. And like, I would walk every day and I would just cry all day, all night. And I was literally going through the movie of my childhood, like digging through pictures and I was going through, things were coming up that I, I was just like living in it. And I developed this sort of compassion for me as this little girl and felt so like

• 27:26Speaker 01

  sad for her. And then I also felt a compassion for my mother, who was 20 when she had me and her father, her father was very abusive and her brother at 11 years old had to take a shotgun to his father, like.

• 27:42Speaker 01

  For like to stop beating on his wife. So it was generational trauma. So I had, and I, so, and I called him. I was calling people to like, get stor- I just said, and I want, I had to like, um, I didn't have to. I just ended up forgiving her or just like letting it go because I had compassion for her, you know?

• 28:00Alex Cooper?

  I do think it's very relatable that you're sharing that like, there's a weird thing that happens too, where you're finding the forgiveness, but it also doesn't mean that everything that happened to you was okay, right? Yes, it's generational trauma, but also like you as an active adult now, I'm assuming are actively making sure that you're giving your daughter a very different life than you had when you were in that household. So as much as it is generational trauma, there is someone eventually, hopefully that stops the pattern, which it appears that you're doing. But when you look back at that younger version of yourself, like, how do you think you would cope in those moments where you're alone in this house? And there's abuse and there's all, there's guns and there's all these things. Like what, what did you do to survive?

• 28:41Speaker 01

  Okay. Hold the coping thought because I want to answer that. But you just said like basically break the chain. But what you said reminded me of the parenting of my daughter. It's actually the pendulum swinging in a good way, but where it's, I, I think of when Jennifer Aniston said that Brad Pitt was lacking a sensitivity chip. With my daughter, I have to intervene in myself to validate and have compassion for things that she's going through that are so superficial and teen because of how I grew up, like the life that she has and the private planes that we've been on and the experiences of L'Oréal Paris Fashion Week and sports. So like, it's very hard when she's really upset about something that is, when something's real, it's real, but that's like, so

• 29:24Speaker 01

  I have to like, just validate and be compassionate because inside I feel like, I mean, you don't even know what it's like. But that's not, that's not something to compare it to. That doesn't invalidate what she's going through as a normal teen who feels like her hair looks ugly or her skin or something. So, or, so I have, I'm just saying it's

• 29:41Alex Cooper?

  It's all relative to your circumstances. And so you're comparing it to your childhood and Bryn's like, what are you talking about?

• 29:47Speaker 01

  No, and I don't say it to, I mean, she knows, she's aware of some of my things. I'm just saying it's something that goes on inside. It's drastically different. So you have to like, and I do, she'll cry over something that's not that big of a deal and I'll make a big deal out of it, but

• 29:59Alex Cooper?

  And you're like, wait, this matters?

• 30:01Speaker 01

  Yes. And yes, and I'm a strict parent. So the coping as a child. I believe that that is why I'm the way that I am now and so like resilient and pros play hurt and like a beast and you know I work I very few things flap I'm unflappable in ways because I think I was just very I was very analytical I was always alone I was with adults unsavory situations happening with adults and um I was always the only friend I had was my mind to like analyze things like why they were happening so I think it's why I'm emotionally intelligent because I was always analytical.

• 30:39Alex Cooper?

  Well, how do you think that your relationship with these father figures in your life influenced you as a woman with men?

• 30:48Speaker 01

  Well, my mother would say I married these men because of you because I wanted to take you I gave up my life for you so she would say that but she did instill in me never ever well never be with someone on the racetrack but she said never be with someone for money like she really was or I just got that I'm not sure if she ever said that but I feel like the choices she was making were monetary and so that is probably very that in addition to my real father being a very Hall of Fame race horse trainer like a very successful person I think I it was just ingrained in me to to get it for myself

• 31:31Speaker 01

  even when I was tempted to not get it for myself and wanted someone to take care of me but the money noise was instilled real young.

• 31:37Alex Cooper?

  Having a parent who has addiction um having alcohol addiction and you know and eating disorder how did that impact your relationship to food and alcohol?

• 31:50Speaker 01

  Um alcohol not as much like I remember my mother with all her different cocktail phases and like it feeling somewhat glamorized and me being given champagne at seven years old but I don't have an addictive personality except for to organization so I don't have an addictive personality so because I'm because of all the chaos in my life I'm I have to be in control so I have never really had a worry I love a cocktail um but it's ironic that I created a cocktail business and had an alcoholic mother it's ironic that

• 32:20Alex Cooper?

  It's called Skinny Girl?

• 32:21Speaker 01

  I have a brand called Skinny Girl that and I had it yeah but I've never had um I've had um

• 32:28Speaker 01

  Probably like in my 30s, always on a, always on, always on a diet, on a diet. You can't have this. I wrote a book about this, which released me, unshackled me. Because I was always trying to control and constrict and, and, um, but because I also had a mother who took me to an obesity clinic when I was seven years old. You know what I mean? Cause I weighed 81 pounds and should have weighed 78.

• 32:50Alex Cooper?

  Brethany, pause. What? What?

• 32:53Speaker 01

  Yes. Saint, Saint, Saint, Saint, was it Saint Mary? Mercy Hospital.

• 32:57Alex Cooper?

  How did she explain this to you? Why you were going?

• 33:01Speaker 01

  She had a confusing, I, she would say to me like, I want to come back as you. And there was a competition with me and as you probably saw, there's a lot of poetry probably in that costume, the Scarface costume. I looked just like her, just with dark hair, had the same features. Um, and she was the most stunning woman ever. I can't imagine why she was like jealous of me or competitive. But she used to tell me like that foods, that like fried tempura. She would say to me that it was really light. And that because it was the Japanese fry it differently. So you can't gain weight on it. So she would be like, one direction of like wanting me to eat. And then other directions of like, having an eating disorder.

• 33:41Speaker 01

  So you were seeing like her trolley of laxatives and her like stopping the car on the highway to, you know, because she had had too much coffee, she would say. It was just a lifelong, it, it, it was a, it was a, it's a big character in my, it was a massive thing.

• 33:58Alex Cooper?

  That's huge too, because that is a, yes.

• 34:01Speaker 01

  I was a cop. I was always trying to, I was always chasing her, trying to catch her. And she, I've never met another human being that never admitted it their whole life. I've never met someone that to the day they died, held on to it.

• 34:12Alex Cooper?

  But that's a complete product of an eating disorder. A lot of people like to watch other people eat because it makes them feel whatever. It's making them feel better or whatever. But then also looking at you as a mini version of herself, then catching moments where it's like, you need to look this way, but then it also kind of gets her off when you're looking a little bigger than her and it's a competition.

• 34:32Speaker 01

  And then she got really triggered when I looked small. She didn't like when I lost weight.

• 34:37Alex Cooper?

  So you go to an obesity, what, what do you, what do you remember about that?

• 34:43Speaker 01

  I just remember knowing every single diet and every single rip out and every single magazine and every single, uh, you know, that used to be called the stewardess's diet and the Atkins diet and all the scars deal. She had all the, everything was, it was just, but she didn't have to diet because she was just, I never, I could never, I could never throw up and I've never had an eating disorder. I've had, I mean, I've never made myself sick. I've never starved myself, but I've always been aware of it until my thirties, when I wrote that book, because I realized you could really eat anything you want, as long as it's like, you're not binging. But she could eat every, she, I had a bad relationship with the food because I was always restricting. She was always eating cheeseburgers and all the, the

• 35:24Speaker 01

  things because she was throwing it up. So she, she was just like able to eat everything.

• 35:29Alex Cooper?

  Well, and as a woman, like having the woman who's raising you have such an innate, just like issue with food and it being her whole personality. Like, it's like, how would it not affect you? But then to hear also, that's one part. Then it also being your mother and impacting the dynamic, because in moments you can feel this is manipulation. She's wanting me to eat the tempura. It's like your sense of reality of like truth and what's not truth with your mus- mother must have been like.

• 35:55Speaker 01

  Oh my God. And then, but how about fast forward to now? Like, the reason I know so much about food is because that we, it was an endless, and my, but both my fathers too. It was, it was like a, it was a character in my house also. Like food and the Haagen Dazs ice cream and the bagels from dry 45 minutes to get the bagels in this place. Food was a massive character my whole life because my mother was either frying chicken cutlets at two o'clock in the morning when you came home, or we were at a restaurant every single meal. So that's why I have so much food. I know so much about every scintilla of food.

• 36:30Alex Cooper?

  I think something I remember reading about you is you did eventually cut your mother off, right?

• 36:35Speaker 01

  Uh, yes, after my wedding.

• 36:38Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 36:38Speaker 01

  After my first wedding.

• 36:39Alex Cooper?

  Can you talk to me a little bit about how you knew it was time to make that decision?

• 36:44Speaker 01

  Well, it's been very interesting to have people who are all about family and therapists advised me not to contact her. That was sort of validation because there are many people that I dated who are like, but your family, but it's your family. And then when they really would either meet her or get under the hood or really understand the details, they would say like, I really think, especially when my daughter was born, and I only reconnected with my mother because my daughter asked me so many times to meet her and I would not, I never wanted her to pass away and then my daughter to have this vision. So she met her and she experienced a bit of what it was, even, you know, my, my, my mother, my daughter was, I don't, how old was she? She was, had to be like between eight and 11 and maybe

• 37:27Speaker 01

  it was, how old was she? Like, let's call it like 11 or 10.

• 37:30Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 37:30Speaker 01

  And so my mother, she'd get on the phone with her, my mother would be nice to her and talk to her about art because Brim was into art. But then she, Brim would be like, how are you? I, I, I think I'm gonna die. Like, she would be like, I think I'm gonna die. Or I'd be, and I'd say, that's, that's not appropriate. I don't, I don't think. And she'd go, oh, oh, I can't fucking stand you. Like with my daughter on speaker, which, and, and then she'd be like, when I, we saw her in person one time, she'd say, no, I, I, I lost, I, I've gained like 15 pounds. She was literally like 80 something. I mean, we don't talk about weight in our house. Like, it would have been, it would have been like a damn opening up with, if we had any relationship with her. Everything, everything she said was like a landmine for something I don't want for my daughter. So it was hard to do

• 38:13Speaker 01

  that, but to cut her off, to answer your question, it was so, it, it was, it was so vicious. Like, it was just, it was, it was impossible not to cut her off. Like, she, she was, she was really.

• 38:28Speaker 01

  She was scathing to like you. You think I'm abrupt and abrasive like it was it was I'm a stuffed animal like it was it was it was mean and scathing.

• 38:38Alex Cooper?

  Because in order to cut them off, it's obviously the scariest, but then all of a sudden I'm sure there's like first a moment of like, wait, did it? Should I have done that? And because you're still a kid to your parent, but then once you experience life without them for a second, it doesn't mean it's easy, but I have someone close to me in my life that was like, but it has to be this way to protect my children, to protect my sanity. Doesn't mean it's easy, but it sometimes is exactly what needs to happen. And I agree, there's a lot of therapists that are like, family is family. And then there's other therapists who have had a narcissistic parent or abusive parent. They said, like, the best thing you can do for yourself is to remove yourself.

• 39:13Speaker 01

  Well, you're it depends on it's 50 shades of gray. I don't know. Everyone listening is is has their own story and their own version. But like mine is like that movie, the with what's what's that good looking guy Jeremy Allen? Yeah. What's that show he was in the bear? The bear. Okay. So there's a scene in that show in the kitchen with his mom, which I'm gonna I'm literally just had a nervous laugh coming on with his mother at Thanksgiving when she like literally loses her mind and smash that everyone was like, that was your mother or Firefly Lane. My friends were like, I think that was movie was about. So it's so extreme. It was almost impossible. But most importantly about what you said, it's not really just an intellectual thing. It's like, bad energy with anyone with bad friends, negativity, jealousy, it actually, it's contagious.

• 39:57Alex Cooper?

  It's physical.

• 39:57Speaker 01

  It seeps into your pores. It becomes part of you. You will not succeed as much. You will not thrive as much. You don't even realize it's happening. It's low grade. It's you're absorbing it. So you need to stay away from people that are really negative and bad energy. And it doesn't, I don't care if they're your family or your friends like that you've had forever. If someone's jealous of you, if one of if the call is coming from with inside the house and you're on a phone with your friend and you tell them something and they're like, oh, that's not you really can't you got you can't be friends with people like that.

• 40:27Alex Cooper?

  You can't and half the time it's. Usually so much harder with family because the boundaries are so crossed because they are so comfortable with you in a way that maybe friends don't think they can fully, fully cross the boundary. You're living with these people. This, you've come out of this woman. You are this woman. You know what I mean? So like the boundaries with family are so corrupt and can get so crossed that it's so much harder. So to have the strength to actually end a relationship like that is beyond measure of strength. And I think I wanted to talk to you about this today because I'm like, I think there's so much of you that's online, of course, and you have this digital footprint that's amazing. But there is this like hard

• 41:07Alex Cooper?

  exterior that has allowed you to survive your childhood, but then it's made you really fucking successful. Right?

• 41:15Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 41:15Alex Cooper?

  And so, yes, it was a bad that you turned into good. Doesn't mean it didn't hurt. Um, but I remember reading somewhere you talked about how like because of your childhood, you gained this like hustle mindset essentially, right?

• 41:29Speaker 01

  Yes, but also I think that I've connected to an audience because they know that that other part is underneath. Because I don't wear my story, but it comes out sometimes. And so they're aware, if I was only hard, that's, that's too much, you know, and it's unintentional. It's just, I'm not only hard, I'm just, that's the shell that is so easy to be there. And yes, that's made me so resilient, you know, but, but we always go back to the dynamic of who we are with our parents. Someone could be a billionaire who invented the spaceship. And the minute they get back with their father or mother, they'll like be back in that dynamic.

• 42:04Alex Cooper?

  You regress.

• 42:06Speaker 01

  Fully.

• 42:06Alex Cooper?

  Okay. We need to talk about, so you're going through all this, but then you become, yes, this hustler. Early days. Talk to me about how you would start to make money, Ms. Bethany Frankel.

• 42:16Speaker 01

  Or what is early days?

• 42:18Alex Cooper?

  Like high school. Like what were you up to?

• 42:19Speaker 01

  High school, I had big, I, high school, I had parties at hotels. I would rent out hotel rooms and I would charge the entire grade and have like full blown party parties.

• 42:32Alex Cooper?

  And how did you even like think to do that?

• 42:33Speaker 01

  I don't know. And, and, and, and I would also. Have house parties in Old Westbury in the house that Howard Stern actually moved into after us. And I would have the local volunteer cops in Old Westbury work to help clean up the next day and I would charge everybody. Um, and

• 42:52Alex Cooper?

  You're insane. I love it.

• 42:53Speaker 01

  I worked at a bakery. I've had every, there's not a job. I can't think of a job I haven't had. I was a hostess at La Scala. I was Jerry and Linda Bruckheimer's assistant. I was Kathy Hilton's assistant. I was, I worked at Island Pictures for Chris Blackwell. I worked under Lorne Michaels, a Broadway video for this guy Barnaby. I worked everywhere.

• 43:13Alex Cooper?

  And to get in these rooms, how the fuck did you do this?

• 43:15Speaker 01

  Totally accidental. Totally connected.

• 43:17Alex Cooper?

  It's just like each moment in time.

• 43:19Speaker 01

  Hostess at La Scala, met Kyle, started working for Kathy. Hostess at La Scala, met a woman who was going away and worked for the Bruckheimers. I was a temp and then got, I mean, I was just always working. I've always worked.

• 43:31Alex Cooper?

  But don't you believe, Bethany, like I think even advice for young people listening, especially with careers, it's like, you would think, you know, being a hostess at La Scala, the fact that you spoke to Kyle and then had the wherewithal to like, it's a personality thing where then you're like, no, I'll follow up. I'll get the phone number. I'll do the thing.

• 43:48Speaker 01

  Hustle.

• 43:49Alex Cooper?

  Cause a lot of people will be like, oh, I don't want to overstep.

• 43:52Speaker 01

  I was a hot walker at the racetrack. I used to walk the horses when they come off the track to cool them off. I would give them the bath and then you have to cool them down. So I've had every job, but it's more about work ethic and people now because of social media and they, they think like everything's just easy. Nothing's easy. And, and to sustain is to work hard. And I've always been a worker and you don't do any job if you won't do it to the best of your ability. So being the best hostess, being the best person printing copies at, um, different studios for different shows, working as a P A on Saved by the Bell. No one in this entire industry will ever say that I didn't work hard. I've always worked hard.

• 44:29Alex Cooper?

  But what did you actually want to do? Like what was your dream?

• 44:33Speaker 01

  I thought I wanted to be an actress because my mother

• 44:39Speaker 01

  Which was a defining traumatic moment told me when I was probably in high school that she had been offered a Disney contract for me when I was little, but she turned it down. I don't even know if that was true, but my whole life, it tortured me because I thought it would have been much easier and I used to beg her to take me into the city for auditions and she wouldn't. And I used to beg her to ask friends because she knew this one guy who used to produce commercials. I would beg her and she was an actress in college and she never helped me and I wanted it so badly. And I probably wanted it just for like the fame, just for like the attention and the love. I didn't understand what acting was and I don't think, I was good in it in the Lifetime movie, but I didn't think I was very good at it because I wasn't, I don't think, good at playing someone else.

• 45:24Alex Cooper?

  You're better at yourself.

• 45:25Speaker 01

  I think, I think I figured that out, but that didn't exist as a genre.

• 45:28Alex Cooper?

  Isn't that so crazy though, that like with parents, the fact that there is a big chance that that is a complete lie and she used that to make you feel small so that she can feel also better about like her acting, you know.

• 45:46Speaker 01

  Or it was true and she didn't ask me if I would want to do it.

• 45:48Alex Cooper?

  I was gonna say, so there's that or and like both is pretty bad.

• 45:52Speaker 01

  It wasn't great. I tortured myself over it for years because I thought I could have had a life, you know, it could have been on the Mickey Mouse.

• 45:57Alex Cooper?

  And then look what the fuck you did, bitch. Like, here we go. So you get into your 30s and you talk, you've talked about how, you know, in your 30s, you were at a very different place than most of your friends and you're still hustling and you're still trying to figure it out. Then you end up getting cast on Martha Stewart's Apprentice show. For anyone who's not familiar, first of all, you need to explain to them what that show was and how did you get this show?

• 46:22Speaker 01

  Well, I was out with a group of people, um, at a dinner and they were talking about the Donald Trump Apprentice. Now, keep in mind, it wasn't the Celebrity Apprentice, it was the regular person Apprentice. And I just overheard them saying, I didn't watch a lot of TV, I don't believe, and I didn't know about the show. And they were saying that people were competing and having like lemonade stands and like, it almost felt like an adult scavenger hunt for a job. Now, I was broke, I was living in New York and I believe then it was a studio apartment. And I said aloud something about like, I'd be good on that. And this one guy that I've mentioned in my books, I won't say him again, he sort of taunted me and said, you'll never get on that show. And I said, you mark my words, I'll get on that show. But I was talking about The Trump

• 47:06Speaker 01

  Apprentice, because Martha wasn't on yet. So I went and got this guy I was working with to buy, I said, buy the least expensive, smallest video camera you could find, and film me selling my cookies at this trade show. So he sent it in, and there were thousands of people that sent it in. And I went not only to the callback, to the, to the interview, to the callback, flown to LA to be sequestered for a week, went from 50 people down to 18. And I was like an alternate, like 19, but they didn't end up needing me. And so I didn't get it. And I was begging and crying in my room every day. I was like, please, like, I remember listening to Jessica Simpson and Britney Spears songs and like manifesting it. And you weren't allowed to leave your room, you were sequestered, it was torture.

• 47:51Speaker 01

  And I, I was at a Doubletree and they had those good cookies. And, and I was like tortured. And then I didn't get it. But this is about connecting and networking. Most people think it just dissolves. I kept in touch with the casting people, I kept texting them, I kept whatever. And they, I guess, because I was a natural food chef, had me in mind for the Martha one that Mark Burnett was going to do when she got out of jail. She launched a talk show and a, and a reality show, The Apprentice, on the same literal day. And I was like, this makes sense.

• 48:20Alex Cooper?

  Holy, I mean-

• 48:22Speaker 01

  So I went back for the sequestering again, went through the whole thing for the whole week. And I handled it differently because I realized in that in between those two moments that the first time I was going for a job interview and I wanted the job like I thought it was a job interview and to tell them how proficient I was and how smart I was but I didn't realize until the second time they really wanted someone who's gonna be good television in addition to having the accolades but like I brought Bethany the second time.

• 48:48Alex Cooper?

  Was it natural for you or were you watching eyes and being like, oh, I gotta ramp it up, I gotta pull it down?

• 48:53Speaker 01

  No.

• 48:53Alex Cooper?

  Were you producing yourself?

• 48:54Speaker 01

  No, because I didn't even know that was a poss- I didn't understand, I'd never been on television before. And the first minute of it, I stared into the camera and they had to tell us not to stare into the camera. It was the greatest training for what later became to be what most people know as reality television because this experience was all about the competition. They don't care about funny Bethany, they don't care about what's going on in my personal life. It's all about the competition, so anything I say is only interesting as it pertains to the other people. And my friends at home were like, wait, they didn't like show how funny you are, what the fuck, you're so funny, why didn't they show how funny you are? Like, it was really about the competition, so I was a good character. But I took it very seriously because I wanted to win because I grew up at the racetrack.

• 49:34Alex Cooper?

  Yes, you did.

• 49:35Speaker 01

  And coming in second, which I did, no one ever remembers who came in second. Except for this one, except for this one experience. So, so I went through the whole thing hardcore because I was broke and I wanted the job. And I was like, Martha, I, she democratized style and I'm gonna democratize health, I'm gonna be a natural food chef. And I had the job on my mind. So I was an animal going through that like an animal, but I was trained. When I went on to Housewives later, I thought like, you're never supposed to talk to the producers, they don't exist. I mean, Mark Burnett is a military operation, it's another story. It's like, you do not look at the, you don't look at the producers, they don't exist, those are, those are cameras, they do not exist, like, you're really living this and they're fly, you're, they're flies on the wall.

• 50:17Alex Cooper?

  And then you get to Housewives and like, Bethany, can you fix your hair?

• 50:20Speaker 01

  People are-

• 50:20Alex Cooper?

  And, oh wait, Bethany, say that.

• 50:21Speaker 01

  People are having sleep, people are marrying producers, literally, Candy Burris married a producer. It's not the same. But however Martha's daughter slept with a producer, a camera guy. So that's different.

• 50:30Alex Cooper?

  Okay, wait, Martha, you ended the show and you compared Martha, you said, to an ex-boyfriend who you hate, but you're still in love with. Where was this tension coming from and like, how did you actually feel about her?

• 50:42Speaker 01

  Oh my god, I'm so glad that you're, okay. So during, during the whole show, this is all just how I perceive it to be. I was out on a reward with, I was out on a task or something after we won. And Martha came to the loft and visited. I had dated a guy. Now, I was broke going into it. I had like not a lot, like a couple of thousand dollars to my bank account. But there was a guy that I had dated that had given me a Louis Vuitton suit and I brought it. And Martha clocked it in the closet. And one of the contestants said to me, Martha goes, oh, let me guess, this is Bethany's. So she had like a feeling about me because before I got on, Paul Allen, the founder of Microsoft, thought he was doing me a favor, but said to Martha that he knew me. And I was like, no,

• 51:25Speaker 01

  no, I don't want her to think I'm caught like, because I always knew people. I always just had connections to people. I don't, I don't want to give nepo, baby. No, and I'm not, I wasn't. I just in Malibu, David Geffen had a dinner party and Paul Allen was there and I was. Like I'm a networker, but I'm not. I was Jerry Bruckheimer's assistant, so I had to take care of his house. And it was next to David Geffen's house and he asked me to come to a dinner party. And that's how I met Paul Allen and he tells Martha Stewart that. And I'm like, I don't want to seem like, no. So I was like. Buck. Yeah. So anyway, that's my perception. She would probably deny that. I'm saying that is my perception is, and that is what I was told from someone in the loft, that she mentioned my suit.

• 52:05Speaker 01

  It was a nice gorgeous suit. So I go through the competition and when I don't win, she says, you're pushy, you're show off. You feel the need to make a physical impression, which is not entirely necessary here at Martha Stewart Living Omni Media. So I was brokenhearted and I went, this is like a book. I went as Elise Slane from The Housewives beard to St. Bart's with her on a trip. That she invited me on a trip that was all paid for in St. Bart's. And I didn't realize that it was with a guy that she was dating. Because she, he just, it was the three of us on this trip. I didn't realize like, because she was kind of cagey about it.

• 52:46Speaker 01

  So we go with this guy and they put me in this cottage above Latwani Hotel. And they're like, I guess in a room and I'm by myself. So I know people. So I go to New Year's Eve party on Paula Allen's boat. And I get off the tender and I wear, I, I know she's going to be there and I don't know why. I think he might've said it. So I wear the sickest dress you've ever seen in your life. It's a Dolce Gabbana dress. It is, and I was in my thirties. It has laces going down the side, a big opening gap down it. I get off the tender, I walk on the boat. The first person I see is Martha Stewart and Bon, Jon Bon Jovi. So she's facing him and I walk on and I see her. I'm so nervous. Every time I've seen her, I have 10 stories like this with her.

• 53:27Speaker 01

  Over the course of time, I've seen her so many times and I always like, not anymore, but like, I always pay homage to her. She's still going to be the queen and she's doing great now and we're good now.

• 53:37Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 53:37Speaker 01

  It's, and it's like a great All About Eve nemesis. Like it's amazing. So I get on the boat and I walk up to her and she says, John, she calls him John, this is Bethany. She, she, I, she, something like what she says, she said, I didn't, I, because he knew about her show. I didn't choose her. She didn't win. So she's mad at me. And I said, Martha, I'm not mad at you. You're like an ex-boyfriend that I hate that I'm still in love with.

• 54:03Speaker 01

  And that was all that I said. And it, you know, it landed, but it threw me off. And I got off the boat shortly thereafter and, you know, lived my life. You have no idea how many things she's said to me over the years, the most insane. I could write a book on the comments just, and give her the credit, the props. Like, it's like she would have been a great housewife. Because when I ran, and even though she's not like over the top and doesn't, when I ran into her at Nobu, she had a comment there too, and I had a comment back too. She and I would have been, she, she wanted to do a show with me years later. She wanted me to, yeah, there were, we have so many stories Martha and then I saw her at the Jingle Ball. And she, she, she was like, let's take a picture. And like, it was like all good, but I, I gave her the flowers. I always kissed the ring with her.

• 54:44Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. Kissing the ring because like she's, she's always going to be an icon.

• 54:47Speaker 01

  I respect her gangster and she gave me respect on, on, on a show and she was asked, wait, you didn't pick her. And she said, I was wrong. Like for her to say I was, so we've respected each other. It's been, I like, I like it. It's, the room stops for me if she's somewhere and I'm there.

• 55:02Alex Cooper?

  If you had to choose, would you rather go back and do another season of Housewives or The Apprentice?

• 55:10Speaker 01

  Housewives. Because, because there's no upside to not winning The Apprentice.

• 55:16Alex Cooper?

  You're so competitive. I love it.

• 55:17Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? There's no upside.

• 55:19Alex Cooper?

  Who's a better boss, Martha or Andy?

• 55:23Speaker 01

  Andy wasn't my boss.

• 55:26Alex Cooper?

  Okay. So you start filming Housewives. In your mind, did you have any expectations of like what you wanted to get out of the experience at that point?

• 55:36Speaker 01

  I was a natural food chef who wanted to be on some, some version of a cooking show. The head of the Food Network told me, told me, stop coming in here with all these different production companies. You're never getting on TV. And his name was Bob Tushman. And he literally, because he was annoyed that these different production companies, like I think it was Gordon Ramsay's or there was another Gordon, Gordon Elliot, maybe? Different guys, Bobby Flay's company, Rock Shrimp. They would be interested in me and they would want to come in, but I got cock blocked from the guy running the place. Who later left and other people wanted to do shows with me. But I wanted to do a food show. After starting to film The Housewives, I didn't have a contract yet. And I went in and met with people in Bravo in LA about a food show.

• 56:18Speaker 01

  And when New York got wind of that, they got real nervous and they, they, they gave me a contract real fast. They, they didn't want me to take the food route. They wanted me to take this route. But I thought I had a boyfriend at the time and he would say, just only be a natural food chef. Only show your cooking. Like, we didn't know what this was. This was a new animal. This wasn't a proven concept. So I thought I was going to be able to just walk in there and just like only be cooking. And literally days into it, I said, there's going to be an, if there's an audience, they'll be tuning in and investing. So I'm going to give them the, the real me. I'm going to give them all of me. And so I made that decision. I, I wanted to get out of it. Success.

• 56:54Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 56:54Speaker 01

  And to have a business. I had no idea what though. I wanted to be a chef.

• 56:57Alex Cooper?

  This concept of reality television was such a new concept. So to actually think that you could. Become something from it, but also become a businesswoman and entrepreneur and create products and lines off of it was so new and not even a thing when you started. So it's like

• 57:12Speaker 01

  Oh, no, I started that.

• 57:13Alex Cooper?

  That's what I'm getting to. It's like, it wasn't a thing. So it's like, you're kind of dipping your toes into something. There is no blueprint yet, which eventually you start and you create. But talk to me, early days, you, you become a fan favorite, obviously. Why do you think you were a fan favorite?

• 57:27Speaker 01

  Okay, so it wasn't a thing at all, what you're saying. I didn't even understand what the show was. They had Orange County, but to Ramona's credit, in the comment she got killed for, when she said, New York put it on the map, it was because they weren't in a media city. They were in Orange County. So yes, the show was on and they were getting 800,000 viewers or whatever. And I remember seeing it peripherally. But New York, there was a New York Magazine article, and it was a media city that we were in, and it enraged real socialites for, for the media to be calling us socialites, for Jill Zarin to be showing invitations. It enraged, and I know this because of the night I accidentally crashed the Met Gala after party, totally accidentally. I was eating dinner in like, not even nice clothes. And some of those real socialites were saying, it was like driving them crazy.

• 58:12Speaker 01

  Because like, this person's not a socialite. They're real socialites, and they would never do the show. So the show, I got paid 7,250 in my contract for the whole season. That was my first contract. And for me, I turned it down for a month. And then I said, it's not that easy to get on TV. And if it fails, no one will know about it. And if it succeeds, then it's something. But I, we didn't think it could succeed to this. We didn't think it would be a cultural phenomenon. You know, I said that to someone. I said, this feels like it could be. And they laughed at me. It was Billy Joel's publicist. She was like, please, it's not a cultural phenomenon. It was a joke of a show that we, that it was preposterous that we were being called socialites when we were train wrecks. You know, I really

• 58:52Speaker 01

  was an iconic, amazing time. And we all were fresh. And it was the best time that reality TV has seen.

• 59:16Alex Cooper?

  Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Southern New Hampshire University. Daddy gang, let's get real, okay? We like to make our own rules. Southern New Hampshire University gets it. They let you learn what you want with over 200 career-focused programs, where you want with 100% online courses, and how you want with no set class times. Basically, you get to call the shots from day one. Visit SNHU.edu/callherdaddy to learn more. This is a paid ad by BetterHelp. So anytime that I am finding myself having a habit that I just cannot kick, I'm like, okay, I need to talk about this in therapy. Listen, guys, everyone has habits, mindsets, or patterns that don't serve them.

• 59:58Alex Cooper?

  But recognizing what they are and learning how to let them go can be so important. It's literally the first step towards creating meaningful change. And therapy with BetterHelp, one of the leading online therapy platforms, can be a space to explore where those patterns come from and develop healthier habits and mindsets for a more fulfilling life. With over 30,000 therapists worldwide, BetterHelp has served millions of people globally. BetterHelp makes it easier to fit therapy into your routine with flexible ways to connect that work for different schedules and lifestyles. Plus, BetterHelp therapists have at least three years and 1,000 hours on-hand experience and hold all required education, training, and certifications. You can meet with a range of professionals

• 1:00:42Alex Cooper?

  from marriage and family therapists to social workers and counselors. So Daddy Gang, if you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/daddy. That's betterhelp.com/daddy. Let's talk about business because I am like...

• 1:01:06Alex Cooper?

  Beyond impressed that you had the wherewithal, I don't know if it was something in your gut, someone gave you advice, when you went to sign that Bravo contract and you decided to be like, "Actually, I will take way less so that I don't have to give you anything that I create during the show and all of your IP will be your IP and they don't get a cut." How the fuck did you swing that one, Bethany?

• 1:01:33Speaker 01

  I don't know because I'm not good to this day at contracts, but I am to this day good at concepts. I will sit and like ruminate and think about something and what it means. And I don't sleep a ton. So when I'm between sleep and wake, some other angle of something will come up. And my whole career and for business people out there or future entrepreneurs, it is people only focus about the money and I don't only focus on the money. I focus on the other things that end up making you so much more money. So if it's that, it's the bigger picture about freedom in the future. And I had nothing. So there was no reason for me to think of that. There's no, I don't know why. It's a gut instinct. Or for me to not play any games in a negotiation at a certain point in Housewives,

• 1:02:15Speaker 01

  because I know I'm getting a spinoff, or for me to play nice with Housewives, because I know that then they're going to let me do the talk show or this other thing. Or, or to, to do the, to sell Skinny Girl prematurely in my mind because of the street cred that I'm going to have as a business person and not just be pigeonholed into a reality person. Because being on the cover of Forbes magazine is more valuable to me than another $50 million.

• 1:02:44Alex Cooper?

  No, it's fascinating because again, like this was such early days that there was no concept of a personality being on a show. And I guess, yes, Martha Stewart and like the 11111% had done it where they took themselves branded, got a product out of it. But a lot of these people, even you look at the Disney kids or whoever, most of these people sign their life overs to Disney or whoever it be and to these IPs that they walk into and they walk away with nothing. Most of these people, there's a character that they're known for. They own nothing. They don't have one fucking thing that they can be like, "I own that." You were able to, yes, start Skinny Girl when it, you didn't even have the idea when you started the show, you'd said the wherewithal that again, back to the beginning of this

• 1:03:25Alex Cooper?

  episode, you had this innate like, "I'm always going to rely on myself. I'm always going to trust myself. You're a fucking hustler in high school. You're throwing these fucking parties and you're making a profit." You had business acumen, but it was like street style also business acumen, which actually I believe worked so well because you were beginning in an industry that had so much, as much as it probably looked like there wasn't flexibility, there was nothing rigid about it because no one knew the rules yet. So you kind of were able to be like, no, I'm not going to do it unless I get to do this. And who the fuck, they're like, sure.

• 1:03:59Speaker 01

  Well, no, that's why I told you the story about we were filming already and that we didn't have a contract.

• 1:04:03Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 1:04:03Speaker 01

  We filmed a month without them giving us a contract until they heard that I went in to go talk to the other people.

• 1:04:07Alex Cooper?

  But even imagine that right now would never happen. You film without a contract?

• 1:04:10Speaker 01

  That's what I'm saying.

• 1:04:11Alex Cooper?

  Fucking thing.

• 1:04:12Speaker 01

  No, when we started, it was favored nations too. It was, so two things. One, the Bethany clause was a result of that because after the Forbes cover, they let it go for a while. After the Forbes cover and the Hollywood Reporter article, the industry implemented the Bethany clause, which meant that anybody on any reality show had to kick up to the top. So that was very instrumental. But to the point of what, wait, you were just saying something that I thought of something.

• 1:04:36Alex Cooper?

  Just like the, there was such flexibility in the industry because it wasn't even, it wasn't set.

• 1:04:42Speaker 01

  It's, oh, so I was, so Jill Zarin said to me, when we were all favored nations, who decided that we're all going, it's what happened on Friends. Everybody gets paid the same thing on Friends. Okay. And the show, to be fair, if we all had the same thing for years, I guess we all would have stayed on it. It would have been one cast, just like Friends. But I was like, I said to Jill, no, immediately, no, we're not favored nations. So she, she pulled away from the blonde, Ramona, and she pulled away from the other girls and said, I'm sticking with you. And I remember being in her Hampton's closet negotiating and she just left it to me. She was like, Bethany,

• 1:05:17Alex Cooper?

  Do it.

• 1:05:18Speaker 01

  You, whatever you do, do it for me too. I'm with her. And it was scary. It got scary because people play, they play, they bluff and they say everyone else is doing this and you're not going to be on the show. And I was like, stop. You don't, we're not, they're not, they're not taking, this train ain't leaving without us, Jill. So I was the one who broke favored nations on The Housewives. I never told that anyone before because we got a different amount. And then everybody was on their own and that's how all the fee structure changed.

• 1:05:41Alex Cooper?

  Well, that's really fascinating because should all the four women be paid the same amount? You can say yes, but then it's like, but if you're going in and you're gonna renegotiate, you're not gonna be like, I'm gonna renegotiate for all of these three other women. I'm gonna go for what I can get as a woman in this industry where I know this could be fleeting. I've got my chance. I'm gonna go fuck and renegotiate. And if these other women are so pissed, they should go do the same fucking thing.

• 1:06:03Speaker 01

  What is that? What do you mean should everybody negotiate the same? Is LeBron the same as the schmuck sitting on the bench? What are you talking about? LeBron's LeBron.

• 1:06:11Alex Cooper?

  But do you think people would argue, well, you were all doing the same job?

• 1:06:15Speaker 01

  No, because not everybody does it well. Some people play it safe. Some people fly under the radar. Some people don't get dirty. I could name five people that I've been like, hi, there's a camera there. And if you think I want to get this fucking muddled and shit for my, I mean, I'm doing it for the, for the, for the better of the group. Yeah. Yeah. No, like, that's why, like, Ramona, yeah, Ramona deserved her coins. Okay. Yeah, but there are others who would do one thing on camera and then another off camera.

• 1:06:40Alex Cooper?

  Can you name one person?

• 1:06:42Speaker 01

  I do not.

• 1:06:43Alex Cooper?

  You don't want to get into it?

• 1:06:44Speaker 01

  No, I just don't. I like, it's not worth.

• 1:06:46Alex Cooper?

  I had to ask.

• 1:06:46Speaker 01

  The fucking I'd get isn't worth the fucking I'd get.

• 1:06:49Alex Cooper?

  Okay, but you know, I had to ask, guys. Don't get mad at me. Um, the other thing I think, because I want to talk about Skinnygirl is, again, because the industry was so, in the early stages, it was so green, you coming in and not having a product, then you start talking about this product. And I'm gonna use the product that I'm on to promote the product that I fully own and I'm now building.

• 1:07:10Speaker 01

  But what ended up later happening was they would put, they, there was such resentment because of other sponsors and also they wouldn't include my product, but they would include a fake product that was a fake storyline of someone else. So then you're like, mine's real. So that's a reality show and you're, this is what you really do for a living now. You really have a Skinnygirl brand. But they're sort of cock blocking it because it's become too real and too successful. But this monkey business stuff.

• 1:07:36Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 1:07:36Speaker 01

  That you're gonna possibly kick up, that's not even a real storyline. They can do the bullshit business because it's like a joke.

• 1:07:41Alex Cooper?

  Slowly, they're gonna start to get advertising dollars from a different alcohol company. They're like, why are we gonna promote Bethany? But you're like, but this is my whole fucking storyline, motherfuckers. So take it or leave it.

• 1:07:49Speaker 01

  And they're getting the advertising dollars for liquor because of Skinnygirl, because that, it's like, it's a circular reference. But yeah, don't hate the player, hate the game.

• 1:07:56Alex Cooper?

  100%. How did you come up with the name?

• 1:08:01Speaker 01

  I said to Luann, it's a, she was making darling, you're drinking tequila. And by the way, go, go look at the stats. Women weren't drinking tequila then before the skinny, skinny girl margarita because in college, people would drink like brown tequila, but women weren't drinking tequila sodas. So I was, I had already come up with this recipe, not to be a drink, just because it was what I wanted to drink, to not be drinking sugary margaritas. And I ordered it and she was so appalled by the fact that I was drinking tequila in that scene that she was like, you're drinking tequila. It was so, it was not something people drank. Women did not drink like tequila on the rocks. And so she was like aghast at that. And then I told her, it's a skinny girls margarita. I had come up with skinny girls.

• 1:08:44Speaker 01

  And later I didn't want it to be skinny with a capital S and a G with a capital S. I wanted it to be just all lowercase flow together, no S at the end. And it would have been skinny margarita, which I would have been a multi billionaire by now, but you can't own the word skinny. So everywhere you go, you can order skinny margarita. You're welcome, but you can't own the word skinny, just like you can't own the word bread. You can't own the word skinny. So I had to pick a name for it, which is enraging because every man that I've ever been with, like my exes all said, do you know what it's like? Every date I've ever been on, every woman orders a skinny margarita.

• 1:09:18Alex Cooper?

  It's like a sh- I'm in your dreams, motherfucker. I'm everywhere. You can never get rid of me.

• 1:09:23Speaker 01

  Yes, but for me, I cringe when people next to me, they don't even know I invented. I'm at a bar and I'm like, ugh.

• 1:09:28Alex Cooper?

  Right, because the IP, you needed to have more than just the one word.

• 1:09:30Speaker 01

  So now I can't make it, it's okay. We've done well, but I still, it's hysterical.

• 1:09:34Alex Cooper?

  Now, how do you feel about the name?

• 1:09:36Speaker 01

  The name is great. I don't have any, and nobody has a problem with it. Yeah, it's almost like Banana Republic, you started out as a safari store.

• 1:09:42Alex Cooper?

  Isn't it crazy?

• 1:09:43Speaker 01

  So like-

• 1:09:43Alex Cooper?

  We all forget that.

• 1:09:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, apple is not a fruit. It's okay.

• 1:09:47Alex Cooper?

  But you're okay because I think now, obviously, I feel like in the climate of social media, like everyone is a bit more sensitive to things. And I think a lot of conversations for women around weight and- Being to this or promoting skinny eating or this or that is like problematic. Like have you experienced that?

• 1:10:04Speaker 01

  I know for some reason because we were an established brand and you forget what it actually, the words you just like are like a skinny girl.

• 1:10:09Alex Cooper?

  It's almost like if you launched this today, people would be like, you're fucking done canceled bitch. But since it was already an established and it was a thing of the times.

• 1:10:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, and because it was in a category that is problematic for calories because a margarita was the highest calorie drink that would go up to 1,250 calories for a margarita.

• 1:10:25Alex Cooper?

  So much sugar, yeah.

• 1:10:26Speaker 01

  So it was not that I was saying skinny girl and everything. It was really the solution to that being fewer calories. But it wasn't that big of a thing and I'm surprised. Some people would ask it, some reporters would ask it, but people never said it. Once in a while someone will say, well, isn't that ironic because it's that? But then Sydney Sweeney in her jeans ad made it fine to be skinny again, so it's okay.

• 1:10:47Alex Cooper?

  Obviously I'm getting your opinions on all things business, but now I want to get your take on a few things that are more social media.

• 1:10:55Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:10:56Alex Cooper?

  Talk to me about your thoughts on the concept of hate following.

• 1:11:01Speaker 01

  Um, what a great question. I think I like hate follows to me when people are hate following me because I, it's a great time to clap back and give a little nice slap, you know? Um, I think I like that. Um, I don't know if I hate follow anyone. I've never had a separate account. People say they'll go have a secretive account. I'm not, I'm not that person. I'm not a snooper in someone's drawer. I just have things that like are surprising to people. So I don't think that I hate follow many people or I do and then I stop. Some, some people that I follow that, yeah, it's not that I hate follow. It's that I follow some people that I greatly dislike, but it doesn't mean I don't like their content.

• 1:11:44Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:11:44Speaker 01

  Do you know what I'm saying? I might like something that they're doing, um, but I might not like them, but yeah.

• 1:11:49Alex Cooper?

  But I like that for you where you're like, but please bring all the hate follows to my account.

• 1:11:52Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:11:53Alex Cooper?

  The more the better.

• 1:11:54Speaker 01

  Sure, win is a win.

• 1:11:55Alex Cooper?

  Okay, next. Um, what do you think it actually means to be a girl's girl? And do you think we've lost the plot?

• 1:12:03Speaker 01

  Well, I think you don't support women is an overused statement. It's like, and it's like faux I don't like faux female support. So, for example, these two influencers came to my birthday party, these amazing housewives came to my birthday party, and one of them said, she's totally a girl's girl. And I was like, I'm not an every girl's girl, because I don't want her to fakely think that I'm like, just like, girling out in a sorority with everyone, you know?

• 1:12:28Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 1:12:28Speaker 01

  I'm not, I'm like a certain girl's girl.

• 1:12:30Alex Cooper?

  Girl's girl.

• 1:12:30Speaker 01

  And I'm like, my girl's girl.

• 1:12:31Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:32Speaker 01

  Because I am a very, very protective and insular, private person, ironically, that likes like, my crew.

• 1:12:38Alex Cooper?

  Yep.

• 1:12:39Speaker 01

  And I don't let that many people in. So, what do I think it means to be a girl's girl? I think it means to choose the people that you're loyal to, and I think it means, I think it means when you're unhappy, you're probably not going to be as much of a girl's girl, because you're unhappy, and so it's hard to watch other people be happy. And I think when you are happy, it's going to be easier for you. And I think that it changes, and I think that to get older, you understand why people do and say the things they say, and you have compassion. And it's why I see the housewives and certain things differently from back then, and it's why I do see why some of my success would be frustrating at times for other people in that environment, because we all start off in the same place.

• 1:13:23Speaker 01

  And so, then it was just like, kill or be killed. But I like being away from that experience, and getting older, and having a daughter, and just like, and being happy, just like finding a way to be happy. So, I think it ebbs and flows. Anybody who pretends that at every moment of their life, they've been a girl's girl, and that they're not jealous, or that people in an all-female environment aren't looking at what someone else has or does, or who they're with, it's making the world go round. All these people are talking about other people. It's why they're gossip magazines. Like, it's human nature. So, you gotta just like, try to find the best version of yourself, and try to be that.

• 1:13:59Alex Cooper?

  Love. Okay, how do you feel about using TikTok to expose men who might be cheating?

• 1:14:05Speaker 01

  Um, it's like a reality show when the guy didn't sign up for this. I actually don't, and you don't know the story. You don't know the story. There might be another side. If a guy is cheating, but maybe... Maybe she was mean to him and her friends are gonna say she was abusive to him verbally and she emasculated him. I don't know that. I'm gonna err on the side of the woman. But I think, I think that social media is the modern reality show. And people say to me, why aren't you going on TV? I'm like, I'm asked to do TV all the time, but it's a dinosaur. I am on TV. This is TV.

• 1:14:37Alex Cooper?

  This is TV.

• 1:14:37Speaker 01

  Yeah. So if this is TV, and you're not gonna put somebody who didn't sign the release and be on TV with you on The Housewives, which is, I look, I frown upon that, then you shouldn't be doing it on social media, because it is TV.

• 1:14:49Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:51Speaker 01

  Am I wrong?

• 1:14:51Alex Cooper?

  That is interesting. No, no, no, it is. It's interesting, because social media has completely become television.

• 1:14:55Speaker 01

  A hundred percent.

• 1:14:56Alex Cooper?

  So I agree. Maybe in the beginning of social media, people were looking at it more as like a casual thing. And now it's become where people are creating businesses, people are putting shorts up, people are literally funding scripted television shows. And they're not television shows, as in going on syndicated TV. They're going on YouTube as television shows.

• 1:15:13Speaker 01

  Well, wait, this is why.

• 1:15:16Alex Cooper?

  It's getting crazy out here, Bethany.

• 1:15:17Speaker 01

  Yes, but this is what it was like when I was on reality TV, but even more so the Wild Wild West. So if someone has to sign a release to be on reality television, but doesn't on social media, and the back of your video in a restaurant, why, when this is getting more views? Way more. More eyeballs.

• 1:15:33Alex Cooper?

  It's so crazy.

• 1:15:34Speaker 01

  Right? So if a guy's cheating behind me, he can't sue, because he was just behind me. But why could you sue on a television show that didn't, you didn't sign a release?

• 1:15:41Alex Cooper?

  Everything is on the internet. So then should the internet now be held to the same standards as?

• 1:15:46Speaker 01

  Because the FCC hasn't gotten involved. No, because we want to get away with murder.

• 1:15:49Alex Cooper?

  Absolutely. I'm like, please don't.

• 1:15:51Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:15:52Alex Cooper?

  But it's fascinating.

• 1:15:52Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:15:53Alex Cooper?

  Interesting. There was a trend that was recently going on where I saw people saying, if your best friend cheats on the guy.

• 1:16:00Speaker 01

  If your best friend cheats on the guy, yes.

• 1:16:03Alex Cooper?

  Do you tell the guy?

• 1:16:05Speaker 01

  What are you, it's your best friend. What are you talking, why is this a question?

• 1:16:07Alex Cooper?

  Okay, so this is, this is, I thought this was obvious, where you're like, I don't give a fuck what, if she cheated on the man.

• 1:16:13Speaker 01

  I don't even understand what you're talking about.

• 1:16:14Alex Cooper?

  Like, of course, I mean, like, oh babe.

• 1:16:15Speaker 01

  Did you say best friend?

• 1:16:16Alex Cooper?

  Yes, your best friend.

• 1:16:17Speaker 01

  If your best friend has a body in a dumpster with duct tape on its mouth, you're not calling, what are you talking about? You're not calling the cops.

• 1:16:24Alex Cooper?

  So that's what, I think there was a huge uproar, because people were like, I don't give a Fuck cheating is cheating.

• 1:16:29Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:16:29Alex Cooper?

  And I don't care then that's not my best friend if their morals are cheating. I'm like, I don't care.

• 1:16:33Speaker 01

  Who said that?

• 1:16:34Alex Cooper?

  Listen, if my friend cheats on a man, my first question is, what did he do? And then if she says, actually, nothing, I'm just not into him. I'd be like, okay, well, like, let me know how you're gonna handle this. But like, I'm not going to the fucking man.

• 1:16:43Speaker 01

  What are you talking? I don't know what you're talking about.

• 1:16:45Alex Cooper?

  I'm telling you, this was a thing on social media and I'm watching it.

• 1:16:47Speaker 01

  That's because you thought it was real for the five minutes that it was happening. It was not real. Nobody's telling on their.

• 1:16:54Alex Cooper?

  Bethany, I'm telling you that these people are like, I would, again, it's one thing if it's acquaintance and it's in a friend group where you're like, I, but still, I'm always going with the woman over the man.

• 1:17:02Speaker 01

  Snitches get stitches.

• 1:17:04Alex Cooper?

  Bitch.

• 1:17:04Speaker 01

  And by the way, yes.

• 1:17:06Alex Cooper?

  Can we talk about your love life?

• 1:17:07Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:17:07Alex Cooper?

  What's going on with you?

• 1:17:09Speaker 01

  Um, what's going on with me is, this is for, this is for women who are at all ages dating, is that at each stage that I've been single and open for business, I've thought like, I had either aged or priced myself out of the market because that's what everyone tells women and it's not true because I have a new dating concept that has exploded beyond.

• 1:17:31Alex Cooper?

  Okay, do you want to share?

• 1:17:33Speaker 01

  Yes, it's called the Core Community. It's a dating membership community and it's based on intention and integrity and you have to want a partner right now and you can, there are rules and you can be kicked out, but it is completely debunked that men only want younger women, that there are no good women and we have so many couples already and you, it's, it's, it's the most amazing thing I've ever done. I did it as like a social experiment and it exploded.

• 1:17:58Alex Cooper?

  So are you launching an app?

• 1:17:59Speaker 01

  And so I'm, I will, I will launch the tech eventually. First, it won't be for a while because I'm building on the, the culture first. Like, it's almost like what Soho House was in the beginning, but much stricter and people are begging.

• 1:18:14Alex Cooper?

  Have you, are you working with tech? Have you gotten like investors?

• 1:18:18Speaker 01

  I have, I've had three tech billionaires want in. I'm not taking any money because it's cash flow positive already. And I am, yes, I am gonna build uh white label tech, like I'm taking white label tech to put it in, but it'll be very simple. And I'm gonna try to, I could tell you some of it, but I'm gonna try to like, I'm gatekeeping a lot of the back of the house. Okay. Because I don't want other people now to know exactly how we're doing it. So when are you rolling it out? It's, it's happened already, but when am I announcing it? Probably in the next couple of weeks. We will have a very, very basic, simple website. So people can come in and apply, but the community, the membership will be smaller and it'll be only in large markets for now.

• 1:18:58Speaker 01

  The community will be larger and people will be able to get like dating advice and inside info articles on like, what's really going on and also deals and deals on vacations and anything pertaining to anything related to dating, but get like, exclusive content and deals that you can't get anywhere else. But it's the actual aligning and the connecting that is shocking me and I'm learning so much. And so it's actually helping my dating at the same time. And I'm dating and it's going very well and it oddly opened up everything. Like it's been really amazing. And you're dating kind of like multiple people right now, just kinda like? I have been dating and I haven't fully committed to anyone. There are, there have been individuals that I've met that I definitely like a lot more than others.

• 1:19:42Speaker 01

  And now it's getting a little more, it's becoming a little more um Serious. Serious. Um, but I, I was, I, it's been, I've been so transparent that I'll say to someone, I'm not committing to anything. I took nine months off. I was celibate for nine months and I, I came into dating a full person. Like my mother had died. I took all this time off and I got out of a relationship and I was just like, I'm now like, I've done the work. I'm now ready. Yep. And I know what I want and I'm intentional and I'm not settling. I'm not just, oh sure, I'll go out with the guy from that geographically undesirable place. Or sure, that guy has three too many kids that I don't want. I'm sticking to the, to the diet of what I said.

• 1:20:24Speaker 01

  Like, and it's been, it makes you focus. Cause if you're not focused on the right, if you're, if you, if you break that. You could miss the right thing. You have to be super patient and you can't get full on a bunch of crap food that makes you feel sick. You gotta wait and eat the good thing. So does that make any sense?

• 1:20:40Alex Cooper?

  No, no, I love this advice so much because I agree with you. It's almost like if you continue to entertain shit that in the back of your head, you're like, I know this is not what I want, but like I need someone right now. You literally could be missing that you actually instead, if you were single and you didn't entertain that you would have been going on a solo date or you'd be out with girlfriends and you would actually have potentially met the love of your life. So stop going for the crap. I agree.

• 1:21:17Alex Cooper?

  Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Southern New Hampshire University. Daddy gang, let's get real, okay? We like to make our own rules. Southern New Hampshire University gets it. They let you learn what you want with over 200 career-focused programs, where you want with 100% online courses, and how you want with no set class times. Basically, you get to call the shots from day one. Visit SNHU.edu/callherdaddy to learn more. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Pandora Jewelry. I love to accessorize my outfits with jewelry, obviously, and I feel like all the time depending on my outfit, it's going to be kind of dependent on what jewelry I'm wanting to wear that day. Discover Pandora

• 1:22:01Alex Cooper?

  Talisman, a new collection designed to help you express every side of who you are, because the most powerful statement you can make is being yourself, obviously. Daddy gang, they have meaningful zodiac symbols and personalized jewelry pieces. Each design tells a story that's uniquely yours, a reflection of what you stand for, what you believe, and how you choose to show up every day. Pandora Talisman, a new language of self-expression, because every version of you deserves to be seen. Shop new styles in-store or online at pandora.net. In an op ed you wrote back in the day, you basically talk about how you initially wanted to call off your first wedding, right? And your friend kind of talked you out of it, but there was this gut feeling.

• 1:22:43Alex Cooper?

  And I think for so many women listening to this podcast, I have so many young women who are probably at that point right now where they're actually trying to decide, like, is this the one? Is this not? What do I do? Like, can you talk to me a little bit more about like what your gut was telling you and why you decided to go against your gut?

• 1:23:01Speaker 01

  First of all, if you're trying to decide, then the answer is no. If you don't know, yes, it's no. And if you don't love it, if you don't love it, you don't like it, no matter what it is. It could be a shoe, a meal. If you don't love it, you don't like it. And I did that more than once because all I had no role models as a good relationship. So, and I've had, my biggest problem has been allowing someone to love me and me convincing myself that that's enough for the both of us. So I'm always chosen instead of now being intentional and choosing. So my first husband, who was a great guy, I fell in love with him because of how much he loved me. And so I was trying to convince myself because I just wanted anything but my childhood.

• 1:23:45Speaker 01

  So I wanted to be loved properly and be with someone healthy, who would be a good father. And I did it again for the same reasons. And now I'm not, I'm going to not be with someone and commit to anyone until I choose. So right now, no one's getting my commitment, even though people would like it. Because right now, I'm saying, I need to be 100% sure before I commit to someone. I'm not, and now I don't have the time to waste. Back then, listen, you're in your twenties, your thirties. However, this is working for people in their thirties too, because they might be intentional about getting married and having a kid. Forty's is challenging because forty's is a different age. But like, there are a lot of people in here in fifty's and a lot of people in their thirties. But you have to be intentional and know what you want.

• 1:24:26Alex Cooper?

  But do you think, which we don't need to get into the whole thing, but I know with your ex, who you had your child with, that was...

• 1:24:37Alex Cooper?

  A lot. And it was very, from what I read, you were harassed and stalked during this divorce and your accounts were hacked. Like, can you talk to me about what was the most painful, but also like the hardest lesson you learned from that experience?

• 1:24:55Speaker 01

  Okay, so first of all, there are just the rules and guidelines. Doesn't matter who the moneyed person is, you must have a very, very clear and good prenup. You must invest in it. You must show it to five people with experience. If you can't afford a good one and a good lawyer, then you can get the shit lawyer, but have five people who've been through a divorce look at it. This is so critical. I cannot express it enough because when you want to be out of something, you have no idea. Second of all, you have to go with your gut and cracks become craters. I was, you guys heard a little bit about my childhood. It is nothing, literally, I have seen my mother slit her wrists. I have lived a life, my whole life of chasing her into bathrooms,

• 1:25:37Speaker 01

  trying to catch her throwing up. I've been around guns, the mafia, the racetrack. I've been through everything. I've seen her beaten with an inch of her life with a phone. I have seen everything. Nothing compares to what my divorce was for 10 years. Nothing. It is, that is child's play compared to the trauma of someone wanting to torture you and telling you that they're going to do it. And you are the person who's the more successful. So you look like the powerhouse tyrant and it's like optics look like this person's just a victim and someone, again with the pawn as a child, like it is so important. It was so traumatic. It was 10 years of my life. I lost hair. I,

• 1:26:21Speaker 01

  I thought I was, I thought I would never survive it. I didn't want to. I had to because of my daughter. I literally thought I'll never be happy again. You know, I will never have, I will never. And I, and I, I treated it like a marathon and I went one mile at a time and I, I checked every box. I mean, it was, it was fraud. It was stealing. It was hacking. It was harassment. It was abuse. It was Googling me 60 times a day. It was, it was staying in bed and staring into my face. It was calling me every bad character in, in, in the books. Ursula, the witch and you're ugly. And it was torture. And I cannot, I would, I literally, the only thing that got me through was saying, one day I'll be able to help people.

• 1:27:04Speaker 01

  It was millions of dollars. That's not even important. It was millions of dollars. One day I'll be able to help people. Like it was, it was, you've no, it was literally FaceTime to a toilet because I, so I couldn't talk to my daughter. I know Bryn, I know you, you don't want to go with your mama. I know, I know you want to be like, it was torment from one minute to the last minute of the 10th year.

• 1:27:28Speaker 01

  I can, and I don't even care if I get, I don't care. Like every woman needs to know, do not fuck around and find out. It was the worst thing I could ever wish upon a person.

• 1:27:40Alex Cooper?

  I am so sorry because I can like, I can feel you in this room right now. Like the weight, even just talking about it, it will live in you forever.

• 1:27:49Speaker 01

  It was every single branch and every lawyer said they've never seen anything like it in there ever. Like it was insane.

• 1:27:58Alex Cooper?

  Going through this, obviously the dissolution of that marriage obviously didn't just affect you and your ex. Like you have Bryn and you have this child that you share. Um, can you talk about like how you navigated conversations with your daughter as you're essentially navigating this nightmare and this monster? And how have you been able to help her kind of through that?

• 1:28:24Speaker 01

  Um, I never talked bad in front of her. I mean, she energetically, I believe, felt it because it cracked open during the pandemic when she was 11. Kids, and that's a lesson for people at home too. Just because you're not saying it in front of the child and it doesn't mean they don't feel and it doesn't mean, and for those of you who have young kids and you think that, let's say you have young kids and you're going through a divorce and you think like you can't win or you can't, you can't compete. It's a long road. Your kids will become cognizant and they will understand. You don't have to say it to them. You don't have to prove it to them. You don't have to, you should never ever say a bad thing about the other parent ever because it is the worst thing

• 1:29:07Speaker 01

  you could do to a child. It is, it is the worst thing you could do. So, um, I have navigated it by always telling her that she is loved and, um,

• 1:29:19Speaker 01

  You know, letting her know a lot about what my childhood was like because everybody has something and everybody, things, things make you stronger and you know, therapy is a big thing in my house and, and I've been on it and she is a beautiful, happy human being. She really is.

• 1:29:37Alex Cooper?

  There is a lot of women understandably who will, you know, fantasize about leaving one day or fantasize about like, oh, I wish I could, but like we have kids together and all of this. And, and of course I'm like,

• 1:29:50Speaker 01

  You're not promoting divorce.

• 1:29:51Alex Cooper?

  No, no, no.

• 1:29:52Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:29:52Alex Cooper?

  And, and not only am I not promoting divorce, I also also understand like everyone's situation is different. I don't know your financial situation. They're everyone, you don't know your safety or all of this. But if it was for a child that you're staying, from what I'm hearing from you, which is like such a beautiful sentiment is like this child is eventually going to become an adult and they can feel things. And so don't actually just stay on something bad for the child because it actually will alleviate so much more if you're able to get out of that toxic situation for them.

• 1:30:19Speaker 01

  Children want to see their parents happy. To get together, apart. They, it's very hard and people wait too long. And if there's a, it's again, back to the toxic energy, back to negativity. You know, it doesn't mean you should pull the ripcord. And I also believe in working through and I believe in therapy and I believe in phases and I believe in the seven year itch and I believe in ride or die and I believe in honoring a commitment. And I, every time I hear someone say they've been together for 20, 30 years, I am envious. I think it's beautiful. I genuinely do. There are, there are some circumstances that, you know, my, nothing ever did better than my divorce podcast. Nothing. It was, it was, it was out of control. Women are begging and they are just, they want help. They feel

• 1:31:03Speaker 01

  trapped. They feel suffocated. They can't get out and you can get through. You just can't play games. You can't have sideshows. You can't focus on the minutia. You have to be very calm and cool and collected and get through. Like I said, it's a marathon. You are one mile at a time.

• 1:31:17Alex Cooper?

  I mean, Bethany, you saying 10 years, like,

• 1:31:20Speaker 01

  On a two-year marriage.

• 1:31:21Alex Cooper?

  Babe, if you can get through that, a lot of us can get through anything.

• 1:31:24Speaker 01

  Yes. Yeah.

• 1:31:25Alex Cooper?

  Um, would you be open to getting married again?

• 1:31:29Speaker 01

  Now I say yes, which is a very evolved thing. Yes. I do, I would, I would get married again. I think there's a difference and I always want to believe in hope and, you know, believe in love. And also like,

• 1:31:46Speaker 01

  There is a thing when I believe in the gender roles because there is a thing when a woman is more successful and has more money than a man and it can create dynamics that you think in the beginning are okay and they might not be okay later. And I just really have your eyes open, have your eyes open and go with your honest gut, not what society tells you and not feeling shame for wanting to get out of something either before it or during it.

• 1:32:15Alex Cooper?

  It's beautiful. Okay, last, what are you really looking forward to in 2026?

• 1:32:21Speaker 01

  In 2026, I'm looking, I don't really, I'm a very, I'm in the moment, present person. I'm not thinking about 26. I'm thinking about today, here with you. I'm not even thinking about the next thing I'm doing. I like to be in the moment and be present about where I am right now.

• 1:32:37Alex Cooper?

  I am so happy you came on my show because I think I was hoping we would do a little bit of everything, but I am always so fascinated by women and business women and founders and women who are making it in this industry because there is no denying and I'm not saying that our jobs are the hardest. I'm saying that like having public opinion and a lot of like commentary in your life, like it can either make or break you. And I think you're someone who has been through the wringer and you've gone over and over and over and over every single mountain and all the things and you're still here and you've recreated yourself and you've also stayed true to yourself. But she also has a sensitive side that I don't get to see as often. So thank you for trusting me and sharing your story.

• 1:33:21Speaker 01

  Well, thank you. Can I say something to you?

• 1:33:23Alex Cooper?

  Sure.

• 1:33:23Speaker 01

  Okay, so a couple of things and after I'm going to spill some tea with you in the other room, but a couple of things. Number one, when a couple of people that I told I was coming on, or I might have done a video that I won't post until it airs, I was like, she's a boss bitch and I've watched her work. Like there's an essence to you and you've been busy both times. You've been at a, at a, at a party with a bunch of people and then we were at your, at your show in Phoenix and then Vegas, right? And I didn't get to talk to you that much, not in a way that's like I thought about it because you're, you're so busy, but I can see like The passion and the integrity and the work and the fact that you care about the details. And I really like, I really get it, but, but, but additionally, and importantly for sitting here,

• 1:34:07Speaker 01

  I've seen this with different people. I've seen, I remember going on with Gayle King and her knowing every chapter and having like bookmarks in my book. When I went on from my book and being like, wait, she like read the damn book, how many book? But here today, the preparation that I can see that you did, that this is like a real, this is like your major job. Like this is like your, this is your primary residence. Like it's, I have said to people, have said they want to go deeper into my podcast and stuff. Like I was like, that's not my main, like, I like it. It's, I like it, but like I'm fine at it because I just sit down and just like riff and it's like a throwaway, right? But like you deserve the success in this podcast because this is like hard work. You're sitting here with like thorough, copious notes and research and things you knew about me that no one's ever asked.

• 1:34:48Speaker 01

  So like you deserve your flowers in this space because I very much respect hard work and like preparation. And like you're excellent. Like I shouldn't even be doing this. I, I, after this experience today, I may like give my podcast to someone as a charity. Like, no, I'm being serious.

• 1:35:05Alex Cooper?

  I appreciate that. I, I really, really appreciate that.

• 1:35:09Speaker 01

  And mine's Cheeto. Yours is like a slow roast. It's been in the oven all day. Mine is like a fucking bag of pork rinds. Takes five seconds. There's no nutritional value whatsoever.

• 1:35:20Alex Cooper?

  But both are so different and fun to consume, but I, I really appreciate that and I appreciate you. It was so fun to interview you.

• 1:35:28Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:35:29Alex Cooper?

  Bethany Frankel, thank you for coming on Call Her Daddy.

• 1:35:31Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:35:47Alex Cooper?

  Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Klavio. So Klavio says it's your brand's best friend. Both claim, but here's the thing. Klaviyo knows your brand, your tone, your customers, all your data in one place. Klaviyo's AI agents answer them 24/7 in your voice and build your campaigns from one prompt, emails, texts, and WhatsApp. Plus Klaviyo finds your next sale before you do. It's time to meet your new CRM BFF. Go to K L A V I Y O dot com slash best friends. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Pandora Jewelry. Make their holiday unforgettable with a gift that says it all from Pandora Jewelry.

• 1:36:32Alex Cooper?

  I feel like the best gifts are always the ones that feel really personal, right? Like, anyone can buy you something nice, but when someone gives you a gift that is actually meaningful, you appreciate it so much more. And that's what I do love about Pandora. They have so many pieces that you can really just make your own, from festive charms to personalizing engravings and jewelry that can represent the people and the moments that mean the most to you. So whether you're shopping for your partner or your mom, your best friend, you can find something that really is specific to them. Maybe it's a charm that makes you think of the trip that you guys took together once, or maybe it's an engraving for your anniversary, or just a piece that feels like them the second you see it.

• 1:37:17Alex Cooper?

  Pandora makes it so easy to give a gift that feels thoughtful and personal and makes every holiday moment even more meaningful and special. Because at the end of the day, the best gifts aren't just about the piece itself, but it's the intention and the story behind them. Say more this holiday season with Pandora. Shop now at pandora.net or visit your closest Pandora store.

• 1:37:38Speaker 02

  Nowadays, you have certain expectations when you fly, like people napping on the airport floor or flying in your pajamas. You know what you don't expect? Free drinks. But now, T-Mobile members get a free premium drink when they fly Delta Airlines. So just sit back, relax, and switch to T-Mobile today. Visit tmobile.com/membership for details. It's better over here.

• 1:38:02Alex Cooper?

  Get a free premium Delta drink with eligible plan and link SkyMiles account 24 hours before qualifying. Flight required, must be 21 or older. See T life for terms.