The Guildford Four | Buried Alive | 2

Gerry has spent thirteen years in prison for a crime he didn't commit. Now a tenacious lawyer named Gareth Peirce is about to start asking questions nobody wants to answer. And the answers are going to shake the British establishment to its core. Do you have a suggestion for a scandal you would like us to cover? Or perhaps you have a question you would like to ask our hosts? Email us at [email protected] See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Alice Levine?

  Audible subscribers can listen to all episodes of British Scandal ad-free right now. Join Audible today by downloading the Audible app. This episode contains strong language, descriptions of bomb scenes and police violence. Listener discretion is advised. Hey Matt, you know that thing that you told me the other day, that compromising thing? Will you just, just tell me again?

• 0:21Matt Forde?

  I don't want to go over this. It's embarrassing.

• 0:23Alice Levine?

  No, but it's ages ago. Just, I think, just say it in full again.

• 0:27Matt Forde?

  It's part of a past I'm not proud of, and I still feel like it still might have repercussions for me.

• 0:32Alice Levine?

  Don't be ridiculous. We're all these years on.

• 0:35Matt Forde?

  Well, it's a crime, isn't it? So you'd never know if it's still an active case.

• 0:39Alice Levine?

  I think you would find it really cathartic to just say it in full, maybe starting with, "My name is Matt Ford", and just get it off your chest.

• 0:49Matt Forde?

  Yeah, you know what? "My name's Matt Ford. In 1993, I stole a VHS copy of Forrest Gump from HMV. Felt bad about it, took it back, actually put money inside it, so then I didn't even have the video."

• 1:01Alice Levine?

  All units, go, go, go! All units!

• 1:09Alice Levine?

  October 1989, Gartery High Security Prison, Leicestershire. Gerry Conlon lies on his thin mattress, stares into the darkness. He's been awake for hours, but he can't sleep. His stomach hurts, and he feels a growing anxiety in the pit of his chest. It's too quiet. He swallows, tries to convince himself he's just being paranoid, but something's off. He knows it.

• 1:41Alice Levine?

  What the fuck? He lets out a terrified gasp as two prison officers burst in. They grab him, snap on handcuffs. His pulse races as they drag him out, shove him into a waiting van.

• 1:57Alice Levine?

  His heart clenches at the sound of the deadbolt. Then, a voice comes from the darkness. Gerry. Gerry blinks as a face emerges slowly from the shadows. He's pale, thin, older than he remembers. The man's eyes are wide with terror. Gerry realises who's sat in front of him. It's Paul Hill. It's been 15 years since he and Paul were arrested. Fifteen long years since he last looked this man in the eye.

• 2:34Matt Forde?

  And that was not a happy moment, because this is Paul Hill, the hippie, who had wrongly said to the police, albeit after torture, that Gerry was involved.

• 2:42Alice Levine?

  Yes. So Paul claimed that Gerry had been the boss, if you like. He'd given the orders and that Paul had carried out the bombing of the pub.

• 2:51Matt Forde?

  It would be an awkward first meeting. "How you doing, mate? Been a while? What have you been up to since you lied about me and put me in prison?" "Not really thought about it, to be honest. No, no, I forgive you. Don't worry. Had a good life. Sleeping well."

• 3:10Alice Levine?

  Gerry stares as Paul leans forward, sweating, trying to keep his voice steady. "What the fuck is going on? Where have they taken us?" Gerry swallows hard. He hears his own strangled voice. "I don't know."

• 3:28Alice Levine?

  He looks out of the mesh window, tries to get his bearings. If they're being transferred to another prison, the van should be joining the motorway. But instead, it slows, then turns down a dark country lane. Gerry tries to breathe slowly. The air is heavy. The vents have been taped over. A trickle of sweat runs down his back as he hears the guards in the driver's cabin start to laugh. One of them twists in his seat, grins through the wire. "You boys enjoying your ride?" Gerry tries to hold on to the seat as the van bumps along the dirt track. The guard cackles. "Well, it's your last one." Gerry closes his eyes.

• 4:15Alice Levine?

  The van shudders to a halt and the doors are torn open.

• 4:22Alice Levine?

  Gerry's already aching arms are almost wrenched out of their sockets as he's dragged into a room.

• 4:29Alice Levine?

  He squints at the glaring strip light, glares at the expressionless man in army uniform sitting on the other side of a desk. "Gerard Conlon and Paul Hill." Gerry braces himself. What more can they do to him? They've robbed him of everything, beaten him, tortured him. The officer sighs and snaps the folder shut. "It's your lucky day, boys." Gerry feels his back tense. His fists tighten.

• 4:59Alice Levine?

  "'Cause it looks like you're being freed."

• 5:05Alice Levine?

  I'm Alice Levine.

• 5:06Matt Forde?

  And I'm Matt Ford.

• 5:08Alice Levine?

  And this is British Scandal, an Audible original.

• 5:18Speaker 02

  The NBA's back on PrizePicks. Pick a shootout in the West and a boards battle in the East. PrizePicks is bringing out their best offer yet. New users who sign up will get $150 in lineups if you win your first $5 lineup. That's right, if you win your first $5 lineup, you'll get $150 in lineups. On PrizePicks, you simply pick two to six players, pick more or less on their stat projections, and submit your lineup. Then sweat it out as you watch your picks play out live. It's the best way to get more locked in on game day. Make all the picks you want this season, all in the same app. And now, PrizePicks is available nationwide. The NBA's on PrizePicks. What you want?

• 6:03Speaker 03

  Download the PrizePicks app today and use code WONDERY. That's code WONDERY, to get $150 installing in lineups if you win your first $5 lineup. PrizePicks, run your game. Must be present in certain states. Visit PrizePicks.com for restrictions and details.

• 6:18Speaker 04

  Confidence. It's listening to your gut. It's moving forward even when the path ahead is unclear. For nearly 160 years, Pacific Life has helped people keep their promises, building confidence for generations. Whether you're confident in your financial future or just beginning to envision it, we're here to help. Ask a financial professional how. Pacific Life, the power of a promise. Pacific Life Insurance Company, Omaha, Nebraska. And in New York, Pacific Life and Annuity, Phoenix, Arizona.

• 6:48Alice Levine?

  Okay, Matt, last time we left the Guildford Four, they'd just received their sentences. 30 years for allegedly bombing the Horse and Groom pub. What did you make of Gerry Conlon?

• 7:00Matt Forde?

  Well, he doesn't fit the traditional profile of a dangerous IRA terrorist. He's a petty thief from Belfast. He's more of a hippie than a political mastermind. At the time of the bombing, he's in London with no real prospects, just sort of dosing around with not much money. And then, all of a sudden, he's public enemy number one.

• 7:17Alice Levine?

  Yes, it feels like he fits the three main criteria for being arrested for an act of terrorism in London at this time. One, he's Irish. Two, he's Catholic. And number three, he was there. I mean, sort of. Actually, not really. An hour away, actually. But, you know, like, let's not get bogged down in the details.

• 7:37Matt Forde?

  Yes, and this is taking place in the context where, in Britain, people are absolutely terrified of the IRA. So there's widespread suspicion about Irish people in general as a result. Bombs are going off all the time. Police and politicians are keen to do anything to show that they're in charge. And that was a perfect storm which effectively allowed the establishment to treat people like Gerry in a frankly medieval way.

• 7:59Alice Levine?

  Yes, completely shocking. They beat him, they put words in his mouth, they forced a confession. He's 21 years old, and he's just been sentenced to a full life term of 30 years. And now the question is, how is he ever going to get out? Will he ever get out? This is episode two, Confession.

• 8:23Alice Levine?

  Two years earlier, London, autumn 1987. 47-year-old human rights lawyer Gareth Peirce strides onto the stage, takes a seat next to Labour MP Chris Mullin. Gareth smooths down her hair nervously. She hates these things. She feels her heart thud as the chair introduces her. Gareth Peirce has been fighting miscarriages of justice since her early twenties. She's spent years campaigning to overturn the convictions of the Birmingham Six, a group of Irishmen she believes were wrongly imprisoned for the 1974 Birmingham pub bombings.

• 9:04Matt Forde?

  Okay, Gareth sounds interesting, and I've never heard of a woman called Gareth.

• 9:09Alice Levine?

  No, me neither. First female Gareth for me, too. So Gareth is fascinating, incredibly impressive, an English human rights lawyer. She campaigned with Martin Luther King, and she specialised in Irish defendants and their miscarriages of justice. So she was involved in Birmingham Six, so she knows Chris Mullin.

• 9:26Matt Forde?

  Yes, friend of the show. He featured heavily in our Birmingham Six series as a journalist, and then as an MP, and of course, was our interviewee for that series. So go back and listen to that.

• 9:35Alice Levine?

  Yes, and taking on these kinds of cases was a huge professional risk because essentially she was defending terrorists in the eyes of a lot of people. So she's a woman of great steel.

• 9:48Alice Levine?

  Gareth clears her throat and peers out from her long, dark fringe. She's always been happier behind the scenes, not in the limelight, but she understands the need to win over public opinion. She takes the mic, then starts to describe how the police threatened and tortured confessions from the Birmingham Six. "These people have been in prison for 12 years. We must condemn international abuses, but we also need to look at our own. We..." "You can't equate what's going on in Britain with Argentina, or Chile, or Guatemala." She blinks at the man sitting further down the panel.

• 10:23Matt Forde?

  It's like an early edition of Question Time.

• 10:25Alice Levine?

  "My fave is a pompous, cantankerous, old man cutting across a preeminent female, in this case, human rights lawyer."

• 10:35Matt Forde?

  Sorry, can I just stop you there?

• 10:38Matt Forde?

  You may have have had a little career in podcasting. But what you have to remember is, all men are experts. We see the world differently, and we've got a right to voice our opinions.

• 10:51Alice Levine?

  Can I just say one bit?

• 10:52Matt Forde?

  No, I'm sorry, I wasn't finished.

• 10:56Alice Levine?

  "With respect, if we don't keep our own legal system free from corruption, we have no leverage to fight abuses elsewhere. What happened to the Six is unjust and corrupt, and we won't stop fighting until they're freed."

• 11:19Alice Levine?

  An hour later, she's chatting with Chris Mullin, when she spots a figure from the corner of her eye edging towards her. She turns, takes in a slightly built elderly woman. Gareth's eyes fall on her wimple and black habit. Feels her shoulders drop. The last thing she needs right now is a religious sermon. But the nun stands right in front of her. I've visited those boys in prison. They're all innocent, every one of them. It takes Gareth a moment to realise she's talking about the Birmingham Six. The woman holds out her hand. Sister Sarah Clark. Gareth shakes it, notices her habit is covered in oil. Sister Sarah looks down.

• 12:02Alice Levine?

  Oh, my car broke down on the way here, had to change a tyre.

• 12:06Matt Forde?

  These nuns are versatile. She's going to prison, she can change tyres. Swiss Army nun.

• 12:15Matt Forde?

  It's a shame she's taken a vow of celibacy, because she is a catch.

• 12:18Alice Levine?

  Now, Matt, some might be offended by that joke, but as the son of a nun, I feel like you can get away with that.

• 12:24Matt Forde?

  That's right, my mum was a nun for years before she had me. And, yeah, I've been to a few convents over the years, seen how they work.

• 12:33Alice Levine?

  And have you seen them change tyres, the nuns of those convents?

• 12:37Matt Forde?

  Yeah, well, Quick Fit was started by a Carmelite order. And they can go so fast because they don't speak. They just crack on.

• 12:48Alice Levine?

  As I say, the son of a nun, take it up with him. A bit like a son of a gun.

• 12:53Matt Forde?

  But less...

• 12:55Alice Levine?

  Impressive? Cool.

• 12:59Alice Levine?

  Gareth grins. She likes this nun. She's about to ask where she's driven from, when one of the organisers waves her over. Sorry, I'm wanted for the next session. But Sister Sarah darts in front of her. I've also just been to visit Gerry Conlon. Gareth stops, narrows her eyes. She's heard that name. He's also behind bars for something he didn't do. Another innocent Irishman accused of bombing a pub. Gareth's eyes widen as she realises. Conlon's one of the Guildford Four. Been locked up for 12 years. Gareth realises it's the same time the Birmingham Six have been in jail. Gareth? She looks up, the organisers beckoning her in.

• 13:43Alice Levine?

  She nods, but Sister Sarah grabs her arm. Gerry's innocent. So are the two other Irish boys and the English girl arrested with him. Just like the Birmingham Six, they need help. Gareth studies the sister. I've been in this game a long time. I've listened to his police confession, I've heard his truth, and they're not the same thing. The organizer steps between the two women. Gareth, I'm afraid I must drag you away. Gareth ignores the woman, as the realisation hits her. There might be two groups of people in prison for pub bombings they didn't do. She grasps Sister Sarah's hand. Where is he? Longlarten.

• 14:29Alice Levine?

  Gareth nods and allows herself to be led away. She'll have to meet Gerry Conlon for herself.

• 14:41Alice Levine?

  One month later, Longlarten Prison, Worcestershire, England. Gerry shoves the player in front of him, dashes forward, then smashes the ball against the chalked wall.

• 14:56Alice Levine?

  He punches the air, grins as his teammates rub at his shaved head to celebrate.

• 15:04Alice Levine?

  Conlon, visitors! Gerry doesn't even turn around. I'm not dying for any fucking visits. He walks back into position. Playing five-a-side has been the only thing keeping him sane for the last six years in this place.

• 15:21Matt Forde?

  Yeah, I imagine this is the only part of prison life that he actually enjoys.

• 15:25Alice Levine?

  Yeah, I think being in prison, as we've established over many series of British scandals, but being Gerry Conlon in prison, particularly awful, I imagine. He's been in prison for 12 years at this point. Six in Longlarten, where we are now. He's been moved 22 times and spent five and a half years in solitary. That's a pretty breathtaking series of stats, isn't it?

• 15:47Matt Forde?

  Five and a half years in solitary is a shocking bit. I don't know how you stay sane after that. I mean, I know we're saying that football has kept his spirits up, but it'd take more than a game of five-a-side to process the scale of that.

• 16:02Alice Levine?

  But the guard strides onto the yard.

• 16:04Speaker 05

  Right, 14 days, close confinement.

• 16:08Alice Levine?

  Gerry puts up his hands. It's not worth it. All right, all right. He reluctantly follows the guard inside.

• 16:17Alice Levine?

  A few minutes later, he's in the visitors' room. It's already packed with families, crowded around the plastic tables, with chairs bolted to the floor. He scans the room. It can't be his mum, she can only afford to come over twice a year. But then he sees Sister Sarah waving. He smiles. He likes her, she brings him news from home. But today, she's not alone. Beside her stands a tall, slim woman. Gerry, this is Gareth Peirce, she's a lawyer. He takes in the woman's neatly cut hair, her expensive clothes. Gareth offers her a hand. Pleased to meet you, Gerry. Gerry doesn't take it.

• 16:59Alice Levine?

  He slumps down, lights a cigarette and says nothing. Your confession? He looks up. The police say you gave it voluntarily. Did you? Gerry scowls at her. English, are you? Gareth sits down opposite him. Last time I checked... Gerry takes a drag on his cigarette, then laughs quietly, shaking his head. He watches as Gareth opens her briefcase. If your confession was made... He watches her pause, chews her words carefully. Under duress, then it's invalid. But we'd have to prove that. He looks down his nose. He doesn't have to prove anything to this woman.

• 17:45Alice Levine?

  But when he starts to speak, his voice catches. My father died in prison, an innocent man. I'll die in prison, an innocent man. You're 12 years too late, darling. Gerry stands up, nods to the guard to take him back. But Sister Sarah snaps. Set yourself down, Gerry Conlon. Your father will be turning in his grave. Did you or did you not promise you'd do everything to clear his name?

• 18:15Alice Levine?

  Gerry's mouth opens. He wants to snap back. He feels like a small boy being told off by this nun. His hand flies up to the tiny crucifix around his neck. His father gave it to him on his deathbed. He sees his dad now, his shrunken face. He hears him say... Swear to me, Gerry. Feels a stab of anger that his father's TB wasn't properly treated. That at the end, his father weighed less than four stone.

• 18:46Matt Forde?

  We remember him from a previous episode, being deeply unwell and coughing and spluttering the whole time. But getting down to four stone is astonishing. I can't believe an adult man could survive at that weight.

• 18:57Alice Levine?

  That's chilling, isn't it? So, to remind people, Gerry's dad came from Belfast expressly to help Gerry after he'd been arrested, as you say, already in bad health. And then when he himself was arrested, he went on hunger strike to protest his innocence. And in 1980, which is seven years prior to where we are now in the story, he dies of TB pneumonia at the age of 56. And to really make things worse, the Home Secretary organised parole the day that he died. And his name was never cleared in his lifetime.

• 19:31Matt Forde?

  You can only really imagine the impact on Gerry, as well as the injustice that he's faced, seeing his father treated in that way. It's like that double injustice burning inside you.

• 19:44Alice Levine?

  His throat tightens. He has no faith in the English legal system anymore. Not in the police, the judges, or the lawyers. He crushes out his cigarette, glares at Gareth. All right, tell me this. Why the hell should I trust you?

• 20:06Alice Levine?

  A few seconds later, long-latin visitors' room. Gareth pushes up the sleeves of her jacket. For the past month, she's been getting as much information as she can about Gerry's case, or at least what's publicly available. She isn't surprised he's bitter and angry. She's been shocked at the similarities with the Birmingham Six. But to help Gerry, she needs more from him. She watches him slump back, scowling. She takes a deep breath, keeps her voice steady. "There's no reason you should trust me at all, so don't. Just talk me through what happened. If I think I can help, I'll tell you. And if I can't, I'll tell you that too."

• 20:50Alice Levine?

  She watches him scoff and look away, then quickly adds, "Like I've been listening to the six men wrongly imprisoned for the Birmingham bombings. They were also beaten and tortured until they confessed."

• 21:04Alice Levine?

  His eyes dart back to her. "You've been working for them?" She nods. He looks away. She feels her heart sink, tries to think of another way to get him to talk, when he suddenly looks back at her. "They beat me from the start, like they did the Six." He takes a shuddering breath. "They put cigarettes out of my neck, put a gun to my head and pretended to execute." He swallows hard, blinks to stop his eyes watering. "They injected me with paraldahide." Gareth's mouth drops. "They gave you a sedative?" He snarls at her. "And it wasn't a fucking calm me down. I was out cold for three days. They left me lying on the floor of the cell.

• 21:49Alice Levine?

  When I came to, I hardly knew my own bloody name. I was fucking terrified."

• 21:55Matt Forde?

  I mean, he's already had his civil liberties infringed. This is unbelievable. It's not one fly of the cuckoo's nest in there. They're just effectively putting him into a three-day coma as a torture technique.

• 22:07Alice Levine?

  She tries not to show her horror. "Did they give you a lawyer?" She watches his lip curl. "Yeah, after I'd signed the confession, they did. I told them it wasn't worth the paper it was written on. Made no difference. They buried me alive. And you know the worst thing?" She watches his eyes fill. "I dragged my own father here with me. My aunt, my own nephews. They were just kids."

• 22:37Alice Levine?

  Gareth closes her notebook, watches Gerry wipe his eyes with his sleeve, then quietly tells him, "I'm going to fight to get you an appeal." He shakes his head. "No use." She edges forward. "Mr. Conlon, I believe we have good grounds..." But he cuts in. "We had one, 1977, after the IRA admitted they did it."

• 23:02Matt Forde?

  Hang on, so they've had an appeal?

• 23:04Alice Levine?

  Yes, they got an appeal two years after the raid that we've just been talking about. The IRA said they did it explicitly, and they said that the Guildford Four weren't involved, and that was in court, on the record. And yet, it still didn't get them exonerated.

• 23:19Matt Forde?

  It is terrible, and I am not taking the side of the British state of 1977. But I guess some of them might say, "Well, how on earth do you ever trust what the IRA say? That might have been a ruse to get dangerous people out of prison."

• 23:35Alice Levine?

  Hold that thought, Matt, hold that thought. She jolts, stares at him as she tries to take it in. "The IRA admitted bombing Guildford." He nods. "Still, wasn't enough." Gareth is speechless. If this is true, then everything she thought she knew about this case is wrong.

• 23:57Alice Levine?

  Gerry gets to his feet as the prison warder steps forward.

• 24:00Speaker 05

  "Time's up."

• 24:02Alice Levine?

  Gareth hears her own urgent voice. "Do you have the names of the people who admitted to the bombing, Gerry?" She watches him walk away. "Gerry!" She sees him look over his shoulder. "Go to Wandsworth." Gareth watches him be dragged away. "And ask for Joe O'Connell."

• 24:24Alice Levine?

  Two months later, Her Majesty's Prison, Wandsworth, England. Gareth tips out her handbag into the plastic tray, flinches at the barking dog as it walks past her. She watches the guard study the visitors' list. "You're not on here." She points to the folded letter in the tray. "I have Home Office authorisation."

• 24:46Alice Levine?

  The guard snatches up the letter, scans through, then narrows his eyes. He folds the paper and finally unlocks the door.

• 24:58Alice Levine?

  A few minutes later, she's in a small room, perched on one of the three chairs around a scuffed plastic table, takes out a pad and paper, feels her stomach knot. She's been trying to get hold of the Guildford Appeal files, but at every turn, she's been blocked. So now she's going to quiz IRA bomber, Joe O'Connell. Gareth is determined to find out exactly what Joe admitted to and when.

• 25:26Alice Levine?

  She looks up as a wiry, dark-haired man is brought in. She takes in his sharp eyes, his pinched face and lank hair, tries not to flinch as he sits and slams his manacled hands on the desk. The guard lingers. "You sure about this?" But she smiles politely. "Can you step outside, please?" The guard looks unconvinced, but eventually walks out.

• 25:51Alice Levine?

  The room falls silent. O'Connell glares at her, then drops his gaze, stares at her breasts, then back at her face.

• 26:00Matt Forde?

  We have to remember this was the 1980s. The values of the time were it is rude not to look at a woman's breasts. And that's just how we were all raised back then. Also, Joe O'Connell's been in prison for god knows how long, so this is the first...

• 26:14Alice Levine?

  Set.

• 26:15Matt Forde?

  First set. First major rack for probably quite some time.

• 26:20Alice Levine?

  What I love on this show is how easy it is to get you to incriminate yourself.

• 26:26Matt Forde?

  You breadcrumb me out, and then I'm just like, boobs, bangers, rabs.

• 26:34Alice Levine?

  "Gerry Conlon gave me your name." He leans back, snarls out. "Oh, did he now?" She folds her hands on the scuffed table. "Mr. O'Connell, he said you would know who bombed Guildford in 1974. And he's paying with his life, accused of something he didn't do." O'Connell blinks away, then looks back at her. "I already told the court and the police that I planted that bomb. They didn't want to know."

• 27:03Alice Levine?

  Gareth's eyes focus. "You stood up in court and said that?" He lets out a mocking snort. "You're catching on. Yes, I told them these four people were innocent, but because I did it."

• 27:16Matt Forde?

  So he continues to insist that he did it. This wasn't some ambiguous confession, it's completely explicit.

• 27:22Alice Levine?

  Yes, and O'Connell had a string of bombings that he was responsible for, including Woolwich. So he's got a rap sheet. He was in an organisation called the Balcom Street Gang, which was a unit of the IRA that operated in England. So it's not unbelievable that he would be the person responsible for this. But basically, the state decided that the Guildford Four were their guys, and they wanted to uphold those convictions, and they worked back from there.

• 27:51Alice Levine?

  Gareth opens her mouth, but is too shocked to speak. Instead, he fills the silence. "And besides, we wouldn't have those feckless hippies in our ranks in a million years."

• 28:04Alice Levine?

  She jumps as the guard opens the door and makes his way in. But O'Connell shuffles forward, lowers his voice. "We knew that bomb squad had that hostel in Kilburn under surveillance. No active unit would have gone near the place." She watches as he's hauled to his feet. A dozen other questions jump into her head. "Why do you think they ignored you?" O'Connell looks at her. "Because they'd already decided who was guilty."

• 28:36Alice Levine?

  The guard leads him away.

• 28:41Alice Levine?

  Gareth blinks at the wall, takes in the peeling blue paint.

• 28:46Alice Levine?

  When she stands, her legs are shaking.

• 28:50Alice Levine?

  She follows the guard along the corridor, then heads outside,

• 28:57Alice Levine?

  blinks up at the rain.

• 29:01Alice Levine?

  If O'Connell's outright confession wasn't enough back in 1977, then what on earth is? Getting a new appeal after one's already failed will be next to impossible.

• 29:15Alice Levine?

  As she heads to the car, she realises, this case was never about bad policing. Someone made a decision to protect the convictions. If she wants to free Gerry Conlon, she isn't just taking on the police anymore.

• 29:33Alice Levine?

  She'll have to take on the Home Office.

• 29:42Speaker 06

  Being a serious business owner takes hard work, patience, and a drive to keep moving forward. So it's important to find a serious business card that goes the extra mile. With the Venture X Business Card from Capital One, you earn unlimited double miles on every purchase. And with big purchasing power, you can spend more and earn more. This is your sign to take your business to the next level. The Capital One Venture X Business Card. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com for details.

• 30:13Speaker 03

  A dark night, a quiet house, but inside, danger was lurking.

• 30:18Alice Levine?

  Oh, not really. We have Xfinity Shield, so we're not worried. What if protecting your home and devices could be drama-free? Xfinity, imagine that. Restrictions apply, not available in all areas.

• 30:37Alice Levine?

  A few months later, Downing Street, London. Home Secretary Douglas Heard clips open the heavy ministerial box on his desk.

• 30:47Matt Forde?

  Douglas Heard, an iconic Tory Cabinet Minister from the 1980s, immortalised in spitting image. His puppet had a big, like, Mr. Whippy haircut. But he also won a Bad Sex in Literature prize, I think in the late 90s, for a terrible sex scene in one of his books.

• 31:03Alice Levine?

  He wrote a book called The Shape of Ice, fantastic title, in 1998. Now, as you know, Matt, this is sort of my area of expertise, is bad erotica. I wonder what you make of this. "Her breasts were so big, she kept them strapped in a brassiere. Otherwise, they got in the way of her gun."

• 31:21Matt Forde?

  Fwoah, that's more like it, Dougie boy. More of that, pal.

• 31:26Alice Levine?

  Where was the gun?

• 31:27Matt Forde?

  God, he's good. Oh, yeah.

• 31:29Alice Levine?

  How big were the breasts and where was the gun? Because if it was in a hip holster, they were big.

• 31:36Alice Levine?

  Heard flicks through the wad of documents. Typed words jump up at him. "Northern Ireland, intelligence report, security briefing, suspected bomb factory." He rubs his aching forehead. He thought he'd left the day-to-day intensity of the troubles behind when he left his post as Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and became Home Secretary. But the IRA has kept him consumed with domestic security and counter-terrorism.

• 32:07Alice Levine?

  He looks up as his aide walks in. His shoulders drop when he sees Gareth Peirce behind him. He admires this lawyer. She's clever and persistent. And thanks to her and Chris Mullin, he's already authorised a fresh appeal for the Birmingham Six. But Heard really hasn't got time for another crusade.

• 32:29Matt Forde?

  It's worth saying that even though he's a Cabinet Minister, as Home Secretary in Margaret Thatcher's government and everything that that entails about the Tory party in the 1980s, he was definitely seen as being on the more liberal, reasonable wing of the party.

• 32:42Alice Levine?

  Yes, and strategically, he doesn't have to do this. I mean, strategically, you'd be advised not to. A real political hot potato and definitely not a vote winner to get an appeal for a gang of men suspected to be convicted as being IRA bombers. Ah, perhaps we could rearrange. Gareth smiles at him politely, already sitting down. It won't take long.

• 33:10Alice Levine?

  She slides two witness statements across the desk. These people are in prison for a crime the IRA has already admitted to. He lets out a sigh. I've already granted the Six an appeal. I can't do anything more. She cuts in. This isn't about the Birmingham Six. It's about the Guildford Four. His eyebrows raise as he shoots her a look.

• 33:33Alice Levine?

  Then darts a glance at his aide, who clears his throat.

• 33:36Speaker 05

  I'm imprisoned in the same year, sir.

• 33:39Alice Levine?

  His eyes fall back on Mrs. Pearce. This is how the real bomber, Joe O'Connell, the IRA member who's claimed responsibility, described the bomb in Guildford. "It was a six-pounder. By that I mean, we used six pounds of gel ignite. We made the timer from a Smiths Industries two-inch pocket watch." He puts up his hand. Mrs. Pearce, what is it that you want? She carries on. And this is convicted Gerry Conlan's description to the police. "It was a long black tube with some sand and a watch face. Mr. Heard, I'd like you to grant a new appeal for the Guildford Four." Heard's aide leans forward.

• 34:18Speaker 05

  They already had an appeal, sir, in 1977.

• 34:21Alice Levine?

  Heard stares at Gareth. You're asking me to reopen one of the biggest terrorism convictions this country has ever seen? While Mrs. Thatcher is putting every resource available into trying to stop the next bomb? Gareth cuts in. My client didn't have a clue about that bomb. He and others suffered gross maltreatment at the hands of the police. I'm not just alleging police misconduct, Home Secretary. I'm alleging torture.

• 34:54Alice Levine?

  Heard glances up, shocked. That's an extraordinary accusation. She purses her lips. The police used the same modus operandi as they did with the Birmingham Six. Beatings, sleep deprivation, no water or food for days, mock executions. He shakes his head. Mrs. Pearce, torture is not a method our police forces use. She looks up at him through her fringe. What would you call it, then? He lets out a breath, stares down at the two statements. This man, O'Connell, his confession means nothing. The Guildford Four could easily still be IRA members. They do, after all, protect their own.

• 35:40Matt Forde?

  You could see how that would be a view at the time, not just in the establishment but in the public. That they go, "These people are fundamentally untrustworthy, so why would I believe them?" And secondly, there's a risk that they're going to say that to allow dangerous people out of prison. What I'm saying is, as a member of the public, I would be susceptible to that narrative. And I've got Irish family.

• 35:59Alice Levine?

  Some of my best family are Irish. Gareth interrupts. Mr. Heard, the British judicial system is in grave error. But now Heard cuts in, frustrated. Mrs. Pearce, due process has been followed. Unless you and your team can find new evidence... Heard raises his hand as he sees Gareth step forward. He repeats. New evidence that hasn't already been shared with the courts? I cannot, I will not reopen this case. He doesn't want innocent people locked up any more than she does. But he can't open up cases on a whim. Confidence in the justice system is already fragile. He gathers up his papers. And that is final.

• 36:51Alice Levine?

  A few minutes later, Westminster. Gareth tries to block out the traffic noise as she heads to the Tube station. Her mind is racing. She reaches the entrance and stops. She's too angry to head home. She thinks of Gerry in jail, the 13 years of his life he's already lost. So she turns back and instead heads across the bridge to Chris Mullin's office.

• 37:18Alice Levine?

  10 minutes later, she's in his crowded room, full of stacked books and newspapers on every surface. Chris hands her a mug. Heard said no. She looks up. Chris shrugs. This is Westminster. Everybody knows everybody's business. I can't see a way forward. I can't build a case, can't find new evidence without the police records. And I can't get the records without an appeal. It's a catch-22. She takes a mouthful of coffee, lets her eyes fall on a framed copy of The Sun hanging on the wall above Chris's desk. Another fantastic rack.

• 37:57Matt Forde?

  Yeah, one part of The Sun, dirty old git.

• 38:02Alice Levine?

  She looks at a photo of Chris grinning at the camera. Then her eyes widen at the headline. Looney MP backs bomb gang. Chris notices. He goes and takes it down, grins as he hands it over. The Sun wasn't full of praise for my miscarriage of justice documentary. She skims the article. Looney-left MP Chris Mullin tries to free IRA terrorists. If The Sun had its way with the Birmingham Six, we'd have strung them up years ago. My pride and joy. I really got under Murdoch's skin with this one. Gareth looks up. Those documentaries you did to publicise the Birmingham Six case that ruffled Murdoch... She can feel her pulse racing. It worked right.

• 38:46Alice Levine?

  The publicity helped new evidence come to light, helped force Heard's hand. He nods. She looks back at the framed newspaper. If you're waiting for permission, Gareth, you'll be waiting forever. Take it public. If this case really is as rotten as you think, there'll be others out there that are hiding secrets.

• 39:08Matt Forde?

  He's obviously had success before with his documentary that helped the Birmingham Six, so he's going to be an advocate for it. But using the media as a pressure to try and get a political end or a judicial end is risky because the media is volatile and you're not in control of it.

• 39:27Alice Levine?

  Yes, particularly in this current climate, it would be naive to think that you could determine the outcome of the Court of Public Opinion.

• 39:37Alice Levine?

  She's never been comfortable being in front of the camera or microphone. But if she wants to keep piling pressure on the Home Office, she knows that the more exposure she can bring to this case, the more likely it is that something or someone will come forward. She leans back and decides. She's going to set up as many interviews as she can. Publicise the Guildford Four's case. Get the public talking. Because if enough people start asking questions, she might just find the evidence she needs. Then Douglas Heard won't have any choice but to reopen this case.

• 40:25Alice Levine?

  August 1988, Royal Armament Research and Development Establishment, Kent. Forensic scientist Douglas Higgs strides into the staff room and drops a stack of files on the table, rubs his tired eyes. He's barely slept. Four days ago, the IRA bombed an army barracks in London, and now every fragment of that bomb is sitting in his laboratory. The Home Office wants facts, and the Army wants arrests. And they're all waiting on him. Higgs flicks on the kettle. As head of the forensics team, he's had endless calls for updates. But it's painstaking work. He has to methodically go through every last

• 41:10Alice Levine?

  scrap of debris, slowly reconstruct the bomb, then search for fingerprints and other clues. Right now, though, he needs a coffee.

• 41:26Alice Levine?

  He switches the dial.

• 41:37Alice Levine?

  He flinches at the mention of Guildford, turns up the volume.

• 41:45Alice Levine?

  He hears the woman snap back.

• 42:02Alice Levine?

  He feels a bead of sweat break out on his forehead as he clicks it off. He knows the Guildford Four case better than almost anyone. His laboratory tested the forensic swabs. He was in charge of analyzing the swabs taken after the Four had been arrested. His evidence helped put them behind bars. He was certain at the time they were guilty. But in the years since, he has had doubts.

• 42:30Matt Forde?

  Was he certain at the time?

• 42:31Alice Levine?

  Well, it depends what you mean by certain. Shall I remind you of the categorical forensic evidence that he discovered? So Gerry's dad had traces of nitroglycerin on him. Now, if we've learnt one thing in this series and the series gone by, it's that nitroglycerin is in bombs, but it's also in everything else. So, so far, so nothing. Auntie Annie didn't have any traces on her, although she did have a pair of gloves, plastic gloves, that she said she used to put her body cream on, which did have traces of nitroglycerin on. Again, nothing, really. What's that? And that forms the entire forensic evidence cache.

• 43:11Matt Forde?

  That does not feel substantial enough.

• 43:14Alice Levine?

  It doesn't really, does it? Are you okay, Dr. Higgs? You look a bit pale. He jolts up as his lab technician enters. Don't worry, we'll get there. Dr. Higgs realizes she's talking about the Mill Hill bomb. Right, back to it.

• 43:34Alice Levine?

  A few minutes later, Dr. Higgs is back in his lab, sifting through charred debris from the barracks explosion. He takes his tweezers, picks up a tiny fragment of zinc from a dry cell battery, then a piece from the shattered pocket watch, but his hands are shaking. He looks up at the lab technician, stutters out. I'm sorry, I, I need some air. He forces his way out, down the corridors, and slams the fire safety door open. A rush of cool, cold air hits his face, his heart pounding. He squats down, leans against the

• 44:13Alice Levine?

  wall, and tries to control his breathing. But all he can see is the image of Gerry Conlon and the others in the dark, the horror on their faces as the sentence was passed. He's spent years wrangling with his conscience over this, because the truth is, he's been sitting on evidence that could turn the Guildford Four case upside down. But it could also end his career.

• 44:42Alice Levine?

  He takes another deep breath and stands. And before he can talk himself out of it, heads inside and snatches up the phone, dials, and waits, until he hears a voice connect on the line.

• 45:00Alice Levine?

  Hello? Because whatever happens next, he can't stay silent any longer.

• 45:15Alice Levine?

  A few days later, Kent. Gareth walks across the gravel car park to the quiet country pub. She slows as she reaches the entrance. A few days ago, she was contacted out of the blue by a man claiming he was involved in the original Guildford forensics investigation. He refused to say anything over the phone, so she's arranged to meet him here. But now, she wonders if this is a good idea.

• 45:42Matt Forde?

  Could have chosen a better pub. Sorry, it's one of those small plates places. Oh, it's just small plates, but we recommend you have seven ahead, and they're £30 each.

• 45:53Alice Levine?

  She's been receiving threatening calls and letters from people who think she's protecting the IRA. She takes a deep breath, then pushes open the door. He's given her a vague description of himself: middle-aged, glasses, graying hair. It could be half the men in here. She orders a drink, sits in a corner where she can see the door. She takes out a newspaper, lets her eyes fall on an article about two British soldiers shot dead by Irish Republicans in Belfast after accidentally driving into an IRA funeral cortege.

• 46:35Matt Forde?

  If you've ever seen that footage, it never leaves you. It's terrifying. They take a wrong turn and end up driving into a crowd that then swarms the car. One of them discharges a shot to get the crowd to move away, which they do, and then the car just gets swarmed by these people. They get dragged out of it and then are eventually murdered, and it is just probably one of the most defining images of the troubles.

• 47:00Alice Levine?

  Mrs. Pearce? She looks up. An anxious-looking man in a brown suit stands beside the table, clutching a pint. Dr. Higgs. He nods, glances nervously over his shoulder, then sits down. This conversation never happened. She leans back. Mr. Higgs, do you have information or not? He looks down at his pint, then at her. I was the principal scientific officer dealing with the Guildford case. My job was to look at the forensic evidence after a bombing, prepare the reports. I was also in charge of forensics at the bombing in Woolwich, 1974, a month after the Guildford bomb. She leans forward, fully focused as he takes a breath.

• 47:44Alice Levine?

  The bomb in Guildford and the bomb in Woolwich had the same charge weight, same type of gel ignite, same Smiths Industries two-inch timer. Whoever made the first bomb also made the other. She shuffles forward, feels her heart quicken. Gerry Conlon was already in custody when the Woolwich bomb went off. Are you absolutely certain? He nods. The IRA man, O'Connell, he described exactly how he made those bombs at his trial in 1977. I wanted to say this in court, at O'Connell's trial, I wanted to say he did bomb Guildford, but, but... Gareth jolts forward. But what?

• 48:29Alice Levine?

  When he looks back at her, she can see the fear in his eyes.

• 48:35Alice Levine?

  I changed my statement.

• 48:38Matt Forde?

  Yeah, that, that will lead to a different outcome, because that, that may give a, the opposite impression when it's read out if it says something else.

• 48:48Alice Levine?

  Gareth stares at him. I was contacted by someone, a policeman. He told me to keep it to myself. Higgs taps nervously on his glasses. He said the Guildford Four had already been convicted. Introducing the forensic link would only muddy the waters. He can't meet her eyes. They wanted the connection removed. She watches his lip tremble. And that's what I did. She stares at him, tries to make sense of it. The police and a barrister, both colluding to put pressure on a witness to change his statement. This isn't just the case of the

• 49:30Alice Levine?

  police forcing false confessions. It's a statewide cover-up. The police, the courts, the establishment. She's finally got the proof she needs to smash this case open. She'll make this evidence impossible to ignore, take it right to the very top. It's time to free Gerry Conlon.

• 49:59Speaker 04

  Ghosts aren't real. At least, that's what journalist Tristan Redmond always believed. Sure, odd things happen in his childhood bedroom, but ultimately, he shrugged them off. Until he discovered that he wasn't alone, that everyone who lived there after him also had bizarre experiences they couldn't explain. And it gets even weirder. It just so happens that his wife's great-grandmother was murdered in the house next door. Is this ghost somehow connected to her murder? He decides to go where no son-in-law should, digging up a cold case and asking questions that nobody wants answered. Like, could his wife's great-grandfather have gotten away with the perfect crime? This is a podcast about family secrets, overwhelming coincidence, and the things

• 50:43Speaker 04

  that come back to haunt us. For the best bingeable series like Ghost Story, listen to the Audible True Crime podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can get all episodes early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.

• 51:00Matt Forde?

  You stepped out for your morning jog. Except it's not your usual morning jog. You started listening to an epic sci-fi book on Audible. Thirty chapters later, you've accidentally run a half marathon. You've lost track of how far you've run, somewhere just past the city limits. You can't stop. You have to find out what happens next. Then it's over.

• 51:19Alice Levine?

  The universe seems bigger. You feel different. You feel like you have no idea where you are.

• 51:27Matt Forde?

  Audible. Stories that speak to you.

• 51:36Alice Levine?

  Two weeks later, Mayfair.

• 51:40Alice Levine?

  Douglas Hurd straightens his bowtie, looks out of the window of his chauffeur-driven rover as it glides through Mayfair. On his lap is the speech he's giving this evening at a fundraising dinner for his new charity, Crime Concern. He scans his notes. The dangers of hate speech, how it fuels racism. He's invited a lot of potential donors, and he wants to get it right.

• 52:08Alice Levine?

  He blinks up as the chauffeur opens his door. He steps out, smooths down his grey hair, and heads towards the hotel.

• 52:18Alice Levine?

  He's just about to step inside when someone jumps out of a car. Mr. Hurd? He stops in his tracks as Gareth Peirce strides towards him. He sighs. She's been calling his office every day for the past fortnight, but his private secretary has told her, no new evidence, no appeal. I'm afraid you've caught me at a very bad time, Mrs. Pearce. She presses a thin folder into his hands. I'd like you to read this, please. He looks down at the file, then back at her. It's a sworn declaration by a government forensic scientist. Evidence that a convicted IRA member planted that bomb in Guildford.

• 53:00Alice Levine?

  In other words, proof my client is innocent. He stares at her for a moment, feels his eyebrows shoot up. You told me to bring you something new. She picks up her bag. I expect a speedy response on this, Mr. Hurd. The issue here isn't Gerry Conlon. It's whether the government allowed four innocent people to stay in prison. Hurd grips the file tightly as he walks into the hotel. A group of smartly dressed donors head towards him. He knows he should start working the room, shaking hands, selling his cause. Instead, he pastes on a polite smile. Excuse me, I have a bit of urgent business.

• 53:44Alice Levine?

  He heads to a quiet corner of the foyer, starts to scan through the file. His eyes fall on Dr. Higgs's evidence. How he identified one single bomber. He lets out a sharp breath, feels his stomach grip. Looking forward to your speech, Douglas. He jolts up to see one of his red-faced donors smiling. He snaps the file shut, sees the woman raise her eyebrows. Terrible business in Ireland. Keeping you busy, I see.

• 54:14Matt Forde?

  Yes, I'm the real victim in all this. The workload, that's the real trouble.

• 54:19Alice Levine?

  It's very much eating into my black tie event schedule. Hurd forces a smile, waits for the woman to head into the main hall, tries to calm his breathing as he slumps down on a small wooden bench, reopens the file. He lets his eyes fall back on the page, then shudders in horror as he reads how Dr. Higgs was asked to change his evidence by the police for fear his forensics would... muddy the waters. He scans the sentence a second time, a third. He looks up as more black tie guests start streaming in. His eyes settle on his charity's Crime Concern placards.

• 55:04Alice Levine?

  Defending rights, demanding fairness.

• 55:07Matt Forde?

  Raising money.

• 55:08Alice Levine?

  Quaffing champagne. He tries to loosen his collar. He can't in all conscience talk about justice and not do anything about this. He grips the file tightly. It might not be proof the Guildford four are innocent, but it is proof that something has gone very terribly wrong. He'll have to tread carefully. This is a terrorist case, after all. His government, Britain, is still reeling from the brutal murder of two British soldiers. But he can't let potentially innocent men and women rot in jail. There's only one person who can help now.

• 55:51Alice Levine?

  He has to take this right to the very top, the most powerful person in Britain.

• 55:59Alice Levine?

  Margaret Thatcher.

• 56:06Alice Levine?

  You've been listening to British Scandal, an Audible original. Produced by Audible with Samizdat Audio.

• 56:12Matt Forde?

  A quick note about our dialogue. In most cases, we can't know exactly what was said, but all our dramatizations are based on historical research.

• 56:20Alice Levine?

  If you'd like to know more about this story, you can read In the Name of the Father by Gerry Conlon, Life After Life by Paddy Armstrong, and In the Name of the Son: The Gerry Conlon Story by Richard O'Rourke. British Scandal is hosted by me, Alice Levine.

• 56:35Matt Forde?

  And me, Matt Ford.

• 56:36Alice Levine?

  Written by Karen Laws. The story editor was James Maniac. The senior producer was Chica Ayers. The assistant producer was Louise Mason. The production manager was Louis Blathwick. Recorded by Jai Williams. Sound design by Peregrine Andrews. The executive producers for Samizdat were Joe Sykes and Dashilis Itzina. Executive producers for Audible were Theodora Leludis and Estelle Doyle.

• 57:09Speaker 03

  He lurks in shadow. He slips into dreams. He casts no reflection. Audible presents Bram Stoker's Dracula: How You've Never Heard It Before, with a new full cast audio thriller starring Jonathan Bailey as Dracula, Ella Purnell as Mina Harker, and an A-list cast, including Maggie Gyllenhaal as Van Helsing, Amy Lou Wood as Lucy, David Johnson as Dr. Seward, and many more. When Mina's fiance Jonathan Harker vanishes in Transylvania, Mina pieces together letters, diary entries, and chilling testimony to hunt the predator stalking those she loves, only to discover Dracula's already hunting her.

• 57:55Speaker 03

  Audible's Dracula invites you to welcome literature's most shadowy figure into your home. Listen to the new audiobook adaptation of Bram Stoker's Dracula, only on Audible.

• 58:08Speaker 04

  Journalist Tristan Redman goes where no son-in-law should ever go. Deep into his wife's family history, digging up the cold case of who murdered her great-grandmother. Because, I should mention, he thinks the murderer might actually be the beloved family patriarch. For the best binge-watch series like Ghost Story, listen to the Audible True Crime Podcast wherever you get your podcasts.