Pod Insights British Scandal The Birmingham Six | House of Cards | 2 About this episode Journalist Chris Mullin uncovers disturbing evidence he hopes will free the Birmingham Six after a decade in prison. The more he digs, the more he learns of dodgy forensics and police brutality. But bringing this proof to light will mean taking on the most powerful institutions in Britain.
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Transcript 8,859 words · 13 speakers
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0:00 Alice Levine? Audible subscribers can listen to all episodes of British Scandal ad-free right now. Join Audible today by downloading the Audible app.
0:14 Matt Forde? Oh, hi, Alice.
0:18 Matt Forde? Oh, Alice, not again. What's with the whoopee cushion now?
0:22 Alice Levine? It's called banter. It's really funny.
0:25 Matt Forde? We need to talk about this. It is not banter. It is going too far. You egged my house last week.
0:30 Alice Levine? Yeah, no, psych.
0:31 Matt Forde? And you swapped my meds out for laxatives.
0:33 Alice Levine? Oh, my God, did you take them?
0:34 Matt Forde? Yes.
0:35 Alice Levine? Amazing, amazing. I wish I'd been there to see it.
0:37 Matt Forde? And you cut the brake leads on my car.
0:39 Alice Levine? Oh, my God, I forgot about that one, actually. That was, like, a week ago.
0:43 Matt Forde? It was so dangerous. I could have died.
0:45 Alice Levine? OK, you're taking this way too seriously. They're practical jokes. It's fun. It's lol.
0:49 Matt Forde? It's one-sided lol. It's only happening to me.
0:52 Alice Levine? OK, if you're going to be such a downer about it, I'll stop.
0:55 Matt Forde? Thank you, thank you. Look, I like comedy, obviously. I like jokes. It's just it feels like it's only on me and it's getting really severe. I worry about what comes next.
1:03 Alice Levine? OK, keep asking me the mic.
1:06 Matt Forde? Yeah, sure.
1:08 Matt Forde? Tell me, fuck it, tell me, oh!
1:10 Alice Levine? Oh, my God, that is going to go viral. OK, you do actually look like you're burnt, though, so I will get an ambulance.
1:15 Matt Forde? My hand's hanging off.
1:21 Matt Forde? June 1985, HMP Garter, Market Harbour. Chris Mullin stands at the foot of the prison gate, looks up at the barbed wire looped around the top. His heart pounds as his finger hovers over the intercom. He knows journalists aren't permitted to meet with inmates, which is why he hasn't told anyone he's here in a professional capacity. But he needs answers, and this is the only way to get them. He takes a deep breath in, then presses the buzzer. The tips of his fingers tingle as he waits for someone to pick up. Hello? Mullin leans in.
2:04 Speaker 02 Hello, yes, I'm here to visit an inmate.
2:08 Matt Forde? There's silence. Which one? Mullin falters. The person he's here to see is one of Britain's most controversial prisoners, a man thought to have orchestrated the single bloodiest attack on British soil since the war. He clears his throat.
2:27 Speaker 02 Patrick Hill.
2:30 Matt Forde? There's an even longer silence. Then the gate clicks open. Pushing it open with one hand, Mullins slips the other into his pocket, switches on his dictaphone, then presses forward to the visitors' desk.
2:48 Matt Forde? You the one here for Hill? Mullins nods and adjusts his glasses. The guard looks him up and down, a suspicious air, bordering on disdainful. What are you? He's lawyer.
3:01 Matt Forde? Mullins catches a glimpse of the visitors' log, feels the fidgety feeling from his fingers spreading along his arms. He doesn't want to lie, especially not if it risks compromising any of the evidence he's here to gather. But he spies an opportunity. Lawyers get unmonitored access to their clients. Guards step outside. That would make what he's trying to do in here infinitely easier. So he doesn't correct the guard's misconception. Do you have a room I could use?
3:31 Alice Levine? God, that's clever. Also, for a high-security prison, very low-security. I mean, he asked for a room, he must be a lawyer.
3:38 Matt Forde? Oh, let me get you a gun.
3:42 Matt Forde? He's led to a small, windowless room on the first floor. He places his notepad and pen out on the desk in a way that he hopes looks loyally. From down the corridor, he hears a Northern Irish voice, squabbling with a silent handler, making its way closer.
3:57 Speaker 02 Tell him I'm not saying anything. If she wants a divorce, she can bloody well come and tell me herself.
4:03 Matt Forde? A guard shoves Paddy Hill over the threshold. Mullins stands to greet him, and is stunned at what he sees. He's been inside ten years now, but he's aged twenty. His hair graying, his skin sallow, the jagged scar across his cheek puckered and wrinkled. Mullins nods authoritatively at the guard, who steps from the room. Paddy eyes him warily. Who are you? Mullins smiles, slips his tape recorder from his pocket, and places it on the table. My name is Chris Mullins, and I believe you're innocent. I'm here to get you out.
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5:32 Matt Forde? From Wondery, I'm Matt Ford.
5:33 Alice Levine? And I'm Alice Levine.
5:35 Matt Forde? And this is British Scandal.
5:48 Matt Forde? Alice, how do you think you'd cope with being accused of a crime you didn't commit?
5:52 Alice Levine? Classic small talk question. Thank you. I mean, I don't even like being misconstrued. This is actually the stuff of nightmares. It's the kind of thing that dystopian films are about for a reason. Because it's so harrowing, just that feeling of utter helplessness. You know, you are certain that you didn't do it. And everyone else is talking and acting like you did. I actually can't imagine what that does to your brain. It would send you crazy. To answer your question, I don't think I would cope.
6:22 Matt Forde? Yes, and this is the reality for Paddy Hill and his five friends. In March 1975, they were each sentenced to life imprisonment for the murders of 21 people. They're separated from their families. They are amongst the most hated men in Britain. And they're sent to various prisons around the country and more or less forgotten about. So how do you think the police would have felt about this?
6:44 Alice Levine? Oh, my God, as you say, it's just unimaginable. My guess is the police would think another successful day at the office, right? More scum off the streets. I mean, we saw last episode that there was this clear culture of being willing to make the evidence fit what they thought they knew for certain. So maybe it's damning, but I just can't imagine any of them lost sleep over it. Like you say, the Birmingham Six get banged up and then I guess everyone moves on to the next case.
7:07 Matt Forde? Well, almost everyone. We're picking the story up 10 years on from the convictions. This is episode two, House of Cards.
7:18 Matt Forde? Three months earlier, March 1985, Lambeth, South London.
7:25 Matt Forde? Chris Mullin stares down at the court transcripts for the 100th time and presses a thumb and forefinger to his eyes. These forensics results will be the death of him.
7:36 Matt Forde? Since getting ousted as editor of the Socialist Quarterly Tribune for being too radical, he's been free to focus on stories that truly matter, like this Birmingham Six case. It makes him sick to think he was tipped off about this case almost a decade ago, but has only now had the time to start examining the evidence in detail. Looking again at the mugshots of the beaten men, rereading their confessions, he shudders. These bloody forensics just don't make sense. It's the one thing he can't square. Because if Paddy Hill truly is an innocent man, then how did he fail that explosives test? He stands, stretches out, then heads to the kitchen to make himself some tea.
8:20 Matt Forde? He scans the court transcript of Dr Frank Skews. Mullin's always known the scientist who conducted the test claimed to be 99% certain of his results. Rereading that number here, given under oath, in the context of a murder trial, a 1% doubt seems big.
8:42 Matt Forde? I agree. I mean, it's one in 100. If you've got 100 people lined up, that would mean one of them had been wrongly convicted.
8:47 Alice Levine? That's a lot.
8:48 Matt Forde? You multiply that by thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands.
8:51 Alice Levine? Now you've got hundreds of thousands of people wrongly convicted. Multiply it by a million, you've got a million people wrongly convicted. Look, guys, you come here for facts, but you also come here for a maths lesson.
9:04 Matt Forde? Flicking through the hundred-plus witness statements, he can't see that anyone challenged Skews, until his finger lands on one name: Dr Hugh Black, forensics expert and witness for the defence. He reads Dr Black's scathing assessment of Dr Skews's test: the word "unreliable" repeated constantly, "fallible", "inadequate", "easily contaminated". Mullins eyes widen. He grabs up his transcript and tea and runs to his phone.
9:37 Speaker 02 Hello, Royal Society of Chemistry, how can I...
9:40 Matt Forde? Chris cuts in. Hello, I'm looking to speak with Dr Black.
9:46 Speaker 02 Hello, please. Hello.
9:48 Matt Forde? Dr Black, my name is Chris Mullin. I'm calling about the testimony you gave at the trial for the Birmingham six. I wondered if... There is a frigid sniff on the line.
10:00 Speaker 02 That is not a case I care to revisit.
10:03 Matt Forde? Mullins sighs. This has been a common refrain in his investigation. I just need to clarify one detail.
10:10 Speaker 02 I'm sorry, I said I don't want to...
10:12 Matt Forde? But Mullins persists. When you replicated Dr Skews's test, what did you use as a sample? Mullins hears a pause on the line.
10:22 Speaker 02 I'm sorry?
10:23 Matt Forde? Mullins looks at his transcript. You said certain substances could contaminate the test. So I was wondering what you tested? The line crackles.
10:35 Speaker 02 I didn't replicate the test. My assessment was based on chemical theory.
10:40 Matt Forde? Mullins feels his eyebrows rising. Dr Black, did anyone replicate it?
10:47 Speaker 02 Not to my knowledge, no.
10:49 Matt Forde? An idea comes thundering into Mullins's mind. One that, if it works, could solve the persistent mystery that hangs over Paddy Hill and blow this case wide open.
11:05 Matt Forde? Ten days later, Grenada Studios, Manchester.
11:10 Matt Forde? Charles Tremaine races through the studio backlot, along Coronation Street, almost colliding full force with Vera Duckworth as she steps out of the Rover's Return. But there's no time to apologise. Charles is late for the pitch meeting. After years of slog as a trainee, researcher and general dog's body at Grenada's groundbreaking investigative current affairs programme, World in Action, he's finally been invited to sit in on today's pitch. And this is the day he sleeps in.
11:39 Alice Levine? One of the things that I do when I'm stressed about a big thing the next day is I'll lay out my clothes. This is psychotic. I won't lay them folded, I'll lay them like out. So if I need to like just sort of lie down and wriggle into them very quickly.
11:53 Matt Forde? Oh what, in the shape of you? That would freak the hell out of anyone who came round to visit. They'd think you just disappeared. Tearing past half a dozen desks, he bounds into the conference room to find his boss talking with a slender, bookish man. Their conversation stops. He feels a slight glower from his boss. Nice of you to join us, Charles. This is Chris Mullin. Chris, meet Charles Tremaine. Charles sheepishly takes a seat, trying to catch his breath. Sorry, Chris. Nice to meet you. Mullin nods and then resumes his point. It's conceivably the biggest miscarriage of justice in British history, and the men who actually committed this crime are still walking free.
12:38 Matt Forde? Forced confessions, faulty forensics, a rigged, bigoted judicial system. Charles listens rapt, until he hears Mullin's final line. And the Birmingham Six remain incarcerated? His boss cuts in. Bloody hell, Chris, defending the IRA? Silence drifts across the desk. Charles sinks into his seat. Good luck finding a talking head to do that. Look, I'm not sure this is for us. But to his surprise, Mullin doesn't back down. We won't need talking heads. Charles looks at him in confusion. I want to focus on the forensics. This was a faulty explosives test.
13:22 Matt Forde? Charles isn't sure if he should speak. He doesn't want to undermine his boss. But he wants to hear more. Explosives, yeah, strong visual component there. He clocks his boss's eyes boring into him, but he can't help himself. And we could stage it in a lab. Men in white coats, beakers bubbling over, really go deep on procedure. He senses a scowl from his boss. He's going to be knocked back down to tea-making duties for showing such impertinence. But to his astonishment, his boss cuts in. All right then, Charles, why don't you take this as a segment? Show me there's something to it. Maybe I'll reassess. Charles reels.
14:05 Matt Forde? It's not a green light, not yet. But this is a chance to prove himself. And he's going to grab it with both hands.
14:15 Matt Forde? Two weeks later, Strathclyde University, Glasgow.
14:21 Matt Forde? Chris Mullin looks up at the clock on the lab wall. Each second ticking louder than the last. Charles is late again. Chris has spent a week devising what they're going to do today. He's got a bunch of volunteers lined up, a forensic specialist waiting to go, and a full film crew standing by. All ready to try and prove the explosives found on Paddy Hill's fingers when he was arrested 10 years earlier might not have been explosives at all.
14:53 Alice Levine? Because this was key evidence that put him away, right?
14:56 Matt Forde? Yes, in episode one, when Paddy was arrested, the doctor swabs his hands, and that turns the solution pink, and that was held as evidence that he'd definitely been handling explosives. But at the trial, another doctor, Dr. Black, said that a whole range of other things could have caused a false positive. But that was just theoretical. They never actually did any tests to prove that was possible. So Chris is now going to run the test to try and prove it. If this morning doesn't go well, there's no documentary. And it's not just that. His reputation is at stake too. But he only has the lab booked for another hour. He needs Charles.
15:37 Alice Levine? Yeah, the team are pouring blue liquid on a sanctuary tower for body form at 12, so we really can't overrun.
15:42 Matt Forde? I wonder how many other colours they tried on camera before they landed on blue? Yeah, purple's the colour of morning.
15:52 Matt Forde? Green could be pee, depending on what you've been drinking. Brown, not nice.
15:56 Alice Levine? Yellow urine, red blood, God forbid anybody thinks a period's blood. Blue, very natural.
16:02 Matt Forde? They can't handle the truth.
16:05 Alice Levine? Finally, we're talking about periods on British scandal. It's been five years. I knew I would get my agenda away. Right, Matt, I know you also want to talk about this. Go, you've got the floor.
16:13 Matt Forde? I think they're nothing to be ashamed or scared of. They're as natural as hiccups. And we should see them more like that. And if you want to get rid of a period, just hold your breath for 10 seconds and it goes away.
16:29 Matt Forde? Mullins smiles at the crew. Shouldn't be much longer. The door bursts open. Charles comes hurtling in. Three full carrier bags swinging from his hands. Sorry I'm late. That was one hell of a shopping list, Chris. What's all this for?
16:48 Matt Forde? Mullins starts unpacking feverishly. Lines the objects up on the bench in front of him. Packets of cigarettes, a pork pie, a bottle of Guinness. He turns to the volunteers. These are all things Paddy Hill touched the day of the bombing. He went to the pub, he played cards, he ate a pork pie. I want you to handle these things. Drink the beer, wipe your mouth with your hand, that sort of thing. But, and this is important, I want each of you to handle just one item.
17:22 Matt Forde? He moves down the line, tosses out a box of matches, a bar of pear soap and a deck of playing cards. We're using the exact test that was given to Paddy Hill the night he was arrested. His swab turned pink, irrefutable proof, according to the prosecution, of having handled explosives. We're looking to see if any of yours will do the same. The volunteers start touching their items. Mullins peels open a pack of Park Drive cigarettes. Takes one, lights it and lets the smoke curl up his fingers. After a minute, he offers his hand to the forensic specialist.
18:00 Alice Levine? Oh, congratulations, so exciting, a lap wedding.
18:04 Matt Forde? How did we meet? Well, it's a funny story. I was trying to prove the innocence of the Birmingham Six by getting working class oiks to eat pork pies and Guinness. And he got really turned on.
18:18 Matt Forde? He flinches as the cold ether brushes his skin. Then watches as the swab's contents are squeezed into the test dish. But nothing happens. It's negative. Guinness goes next, followed by Pork Pie. Neither shows any result.
18:38 Matt Forde? Mullen's shoulders begin to sag as item after item proves a bust. He catches Charles's eye. He's looking equally despondent. Ah, perhaps it was too good to be true. But Charles is cut short by a shout from across the lab. Mullen rushes over, stares in disbelief as he sees a small cloud of pink blossoming in one of the dishes. Who was that? And what were you touching? A volunteer looks at his hands. That deck of cards. Mullen lets himself be shunted out of the camera's way as Charles directs the camera operator to zoom in on the solution as it deepens to a vibrant magenta. He turns to the forensic specialist.
19:24 Matt Forde? Playing cards? Bu- but how? My guess would be the cards lacker coating. Nitrocellulose is a common ingredient, similar properties to nitroglycerine. Chris watches as Charles takes on of the cards from the deck and lays it out on the table. An ace. So we're saying Paddy Hill got twenty-one life sentences? For a few hands of rammy?
19:53 Matt Forde? Bloody hell, Chris, we've got our hook. Mullen keeps staring, the bright pink searing the backs of his eyes.
20:02 Matt Forde? They haven't just got their hook. They might also have got Paddy Hill's life back. Now Chris just needs to find a way of speaking to the man himself.
20:15 Matt Forde? One month later, HMP Gartery, Market Harborough.
20:20 Alice Levine? I know we were at HMP Gartery in the cold open, but there's another time we were there, isn't there?
20:25 Matt Forde? Yes, during the Brinksmat series. Mad Mickey McEvoy was incarcerated at HMP Gartery. It's just nice. We're often at the Old Bailey, we're often in the Houses of Lords. It's just nice to get out of London, isn't it?
20:35 Alice Levine? It's just nice to think if we rocked up at Gartery, we'd have lots of mates.
20:38 Matt Forde? I think we've put it on the map. It's like the Abbey Road crossing. There's loads of British scandal fans outside HMP Gartery. Paddy Hill sits at the desk in his cell, writing a letter to his MP, when there's a hammering at the door. His body clenches. He holds his breath. After a decade in prison, Paddy's no longer subjected to the daily beatings he once was. But he still gets a spasm of panic every time someone comes calling. A voice barks through the door. "Hill, your lawyer's here." Paddy turns, puzzled. "Lawyer?" The only lawyer Paddy's seen since the trial was the divorce lawyer his wife hired. "Tell that co, she ain't getting another penny."
21:22 Matt Forde? Ten minutes later, Paddy finds himself sat across a metal table from a skinny spectacled stranger, a tape recorder running between them, and a slim file of papers. "My name is Chris Mullin, and I believe you're innocent. I'm here to get you out." Paddy stares at the man in confusion. He looks like he belongs in a boardroom, not a prison. He watches as the man nervously clears his throat. "Ahem, I'm working on a programme..." Paddy cuts in. "A programme? I thought you were a lawyer." He isn't going to sell his story to some posh journo.
22:02 Matt Forde? "Mr. Hill, we haven't got much time. I'm working on a programme for World in Action." "World in Action? The guys who took on MI5?" "That wasn't me, but yes..." He starts to relax a little as he eyes the man, who leans forward and pushes a document across the table. Paddy picks it up, stares at some pictures of playing cards, incomprehensible numbers. What is this? He sees a smile spread on the man's face. Your ticket to freedom. Paddy glances again at the paper, reads, Grease Test, Positive. He jumps as the man thumps the table with his palm.
22:44 Matt Forde? This document proves the forensics test you were forced to take could have been faulty. Paddy stares at the man in disbelief. That it wasn't nitroglycerin from a bomb on your fingers, it was nitrocellulose from playing cards. Paddy leans back in his chair, then starts to slowly laugh. He watches as a shadow flashes across the man's face. Is this it? Mullins stares back, confused. Paddy tries to push down his anger at this man's stupidity. Mr. Mullins, I said, I'm sorry, you're wasting your time.
23:20 Alice Levine? I mean, if he's not convinced by this, imagine if it was the pork pie.
23:24 Matt Forde? But this is proof your test could have been contaminated. It calls into question the very foundations of your conviction. Paddy tries to keep his voice calm. All of this was dealt with in court. It didn't do anything then, it won't do anything now. Why do you think I'm here, Mr. Mullins? Mullins waves the papers in his hand. Because of faulty evidence like this. Paddy leans forward. I'm in here because the police want me in here, that's all there is to it. But the evidence. Paddy slams his palms down hard on the table. What evidence? There is no evidence. I didn't do anything, it's all made up, all of it.
24:10 Matt Forde? He pushes himself up, springs away from the table. This could be grounds for an appeal. Paddy runs a hand across his mouth, trying to contain his rage. They baited us, threatened us, held lit cigarettes up against my eyes, and nobody cared. So no one is gonna give a fuck about a pack of fucking playing cards. Paddy feels his entire person vibrating with fury. But seeing Mullins face dropping disappointment, he suffers a fleeting pang of guilt. He takes a calming breath, sits back down. Look, I appreciate your help. But if you're serious about this, if you really want to help,
24:54 Matt Forde? you need to look at the police. The whole goddamn fucking force is rotten. That's the story you should be chasing.
25:04 Matt Forde? I can't investigate the entire. But Paddy cuts in. I don't know how they did it. But if I was in your shoes, there is only one man I'd want to talk to. Paddy lets the words hang in the air as Mullins leans forward. And that is George fucking Reed.
25:32 Alice Levine? I know we were just joking that, you know, he's got nothing to lose. Why wouldn't you just let this strange man help you if he's even got a shred of evidence that might get you off? But actually, he's been in there a decade. He's been through hell. He's been tortured. There's some part of him that can only survive it, I imagine, if he tells himself, I'm just in here. I'm never getting out. I just have to make peace with that.
25:53 Matt Forde? Definitely. I think after a while, you'd have had maybe an element of hope and then some false hope, and that would tantalize you and torment you in a way. You'd just be crushed by it.
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27:11 Matt Forde? September 1985, Cannock Chase Golf Club, Staffordshire. George Reed dabs his napkin to his mouth, burps under his breath, then drains his last dribble of brandy. Well, gents, always a pleasure, but I'd best be making treks. He stands to leave, a little woozy on his feet. Just a sec, George. We have a little something for you. Reed looks around the table. His friends all turning to face him. Big smiles on their faces as a wrapped present emerges. He's touched. They've always looked after him here at the golf club. Since he retired, he's never once had to put his hand in his pocket for dinner or drinks,
27:55 Matt Forde? a thank you for his years of public service. But they've never given him actual gifts before. Could I just say, dinner and drinks, best gift there is.
28:03 Alice Levine? Oh, surely.
28:04 Matt Forde? Reed unwraps it, opens the box to find a small garden trowel.
28:09 Alice Levine? Well, you'd certainly prefer it to that.
28:11 Matt Forde? He inspects it, perplexed. Given how much you enjoy digging up the fairway, we thought you might do better with that than your nine iron. A roar of laughter erupts from the table. Got you, Reedie. Ha! We got you a trowel. Reed feels his cheeks burn as other diners look over at him. Yeah, well, joke's on you because I was going to take care of the bill tonight, but you can fucking forget it now. Shooting them a sour smile, he stomps out. Their chuckles echoing in his ears. He stumbles out into the car park, tipsy, tetchy, when he hears an unfamiliar voice calling him from behind. George Reed. Reed's back straightens.
28:55 Matt Forde? Mr Reed, Charles Tremaine, Grenada Television. I wondered if we could have a quick word. Reed spins round to see two smart young men approaching. We're making a documentary, Mr Reed, on the Birmingham Six trial. Reed recoils. He doesn't want journalists raking over that old ground. He fishes in his pocket for his car keys. Sorry, fellas. Off I finish my round for the day.
29:22 Matt Forde? The taller of the two men cuts in. We were hoping to feature some people who were there at the centre of the action that night. Reed fumbles with the door handle. Profile some of the men of the moment, you know? He senses a pause. The unsung heroes.
29:37 Alice Levine? Oh, very good. Very smart.
29:40 Matt Forde? The word stops him dead. He had been something of a hero that night, but he's kept his lip buttoned on this topic, like all of his men. Why now? We're marking the 10th anniversary. He blinks at how time has passed. Christ. Ten years, eh? He pauses and adds, a little proud now. I had a long career, you know. The Birmingham Six was just a tiny part. Oh, we'd love to touch on it all. All good colour. Reed thinks. A profile on telly might be a nice capstone to his career, however belated. It'd certainly remind his mates at the club that he'd once been a force to reckon with.
30:24 Matt Forde? And he never really did get the credit he deserved for those arrests. No promotion, no fancy title, and it was his handiwork that put those thugs away for good. It would be a shame to let someone else steal that glory.
30:40 Matt Forde? His eyes flick back to the glowing light of the clubhouse. He grins.
30:46 Matt Forde? All right, fellas. What would you need from me?
30:52 Alice Levine? So many times before in British scandal, we've talked about criminals going back to do one more job. And if they hadn't have done that, they would have got away with it. And this kind of feels like that. Why is he saying yes to it? He knows full well that he falsified documents, although he feels like he's in the right in doing so. I mean, you've got away with it. Get on with your life.
31:13 Matt Forde? But the appeal to a particular type of bloke's ego. We're going to make you the hero of this. They cannot resist it.
31:23 Matt Forde? Five days later, George Reed's house, Staffordshire. Chris Mullin grabs the sides of Reed's bathroom sink, stares at himself in the mirror, cold water dripping from his chin.
31:37 Matt Forde? He's had to pick himself back up since his bruising encounter with Paddy Hill. But if Paddy is right, if there really is some kind of coordinator police cover up, he knows this interview is likely his one chance to find out. And the more Mullin's asked around, the more rumours he's heard about Reed, about his drinking, his temper. He dries his face on the hand towel and heads downstairs. Reed is sat in his armchair, in position under the hot lights, cameras ready to roll. Mullin takes in his bulbous nose, his ruddy complexion and mottled red skin. He takes his seat behind the lens. Ready? And begins.
32:20 Speaker 06 Camera, sound, rolling.
32:23 Matt Forde? Detective Reed, you were on duty when the Birmingham bombings occurred. What are your memories of that night? He watches Reed take a deep breath in, then exhale meaningfully.
32:37 Matt Forde? A very dark hour for our city. The carnage I saw, so many lives destroyed, and not just those killed.
32:47 Alice Levine? He's rehearsed this, hasn't he? He can't wait to do his bit.
32:50 Matt Forde? Mullin lets the answer hang for a second. You moved with impressive speed to apprehend the suspects. I read that... But Reed cuts in, ahead of his question. Well, you have to. If you don't catch your men in the first forty-eight hours, you don't catch them at all. Mullins shuffles forward in his seat, ruffled Reed's clear ease, his confidence. The suspects gave extremely divergent confessions. Did that not surprise you? He scrutinizes Reed's expression, looking for a flinch, but sees none. Gangs deliberately cause doubts. That's why a good detective examines a broad body of evidence. Any one piece can't possibly tell the whole story.
33:32 Matt Forde? Mullins takes this as his cue. He slips a set of photographs from his jacket pocket, places them down on Reed's coffee table.
33:41 Matt Forde? Do you recognize these? He keeps his gaze fixed on Reed, glances at Charles to zoom in, sees his nostrils flare at the sight of the men's mugshots. We had a forensic medic inspect these photographs. He says they all show signs of physical mistreatment. They can't possibly tell that from a picture. Are you saying he's mistaken? Mullins sees Reed's lips purse. He's entitled to his opinion. He inches closer. But he's mistaken. Reed snorts, shakes his head, then lurches forward in his seat. Look, if that was the case, if those men were right, that would mean a hundred police officers and a lot of people in some very imminent positions,
34:26 Matt Forde? they would have to be lying.
34:29 Alice Levine? Oh, baby.
34:30 Matt Forde? Mullins feels a tingle in his chest, unsure if he's heard what he thought he did. He tilts his head. Lying? Not mistaken? He sees a flash of panic skitter across Reed's features. His eyes twitch. Mullins glances across at the monitor behind Reed, sees Charles's close-up on Reed's face, a bead of sweat forming on his temple. Mullins refuses to let up. Detective Reed? Reed goes to speak. Then appears to stop himself. He swallows, shifts in his seat. And with every second of silence that passes, it becomes more and more obvious. He's hiding something.
35:16 Matt Forde? Mullins can see it on his face, clear as day. Reed jumps to his feet, rips the microphone from his chest and storms out of the room. Mullins stares in shock at Charles, then smiles, because he knows he's got what he needs. Reed's silence speaks volumes. It's time to broadcast this interview on primetime television, so that everyone else in Britain can see it too.
35:45 Alice Levine? This reminds me, obviously, of Prince Andrew and his big interview with Emily Maitlis. And there are a lot of parallels here in that he went into that thinking it would be softly, softly, and that it would be a lauding of all of his extracurricular activities that he does and his work in charity. And he just didn't for a second think that there would be any hard hitting questions, because he presumed that the BBC and Emily Maitlis would be so reverent that they almost wouldn't dare. And also that he was so convinced of his virtuousness. And that feels the same with Reed. He didn't even consider that they would do anything other than celebrate him.
36:24 Matt Forde? October 28th, 1985, 8pm, Birmingham. Former police constable Tom Clark sits in his garage, hunched over his workbench. With a delicate hand, he squeezes a tiny bead of adhesive onto the base of a propeller blade, then presses it gently in place. This model Spitfire Mark IX will be the pride of his collection, and there's just a few final pieces to attach. He picks up another blade, rotates the nose cone 90 degrees. When, from inside the house, he hears his wife yelp in horror. He jumps up, sending his stool skidding backwards, his tools clattering to the table.
37:09 Matt Forde? Bloody hell, Jo, what's the matter? He races through to the front room, where he sees her sat bolt upright on the sofa, staring motionless at the screen, and immediately feels his blood turn cold. There on the television is Detective Superintendent George Reed.
37:29 Matt Forde? It's been half a decade since he last saw Reed, but he'd recognised that sneering sour face anywhere. Twenty-three years Tom Clark had been a copper, before Reed and his goons put an end to it. His wife puts her hand to her mouth. Mother of God, Tom. Six mugshots fill the screen. His blood drops another ten degrees. He knows those men. The Birmingham Six. What is this? Seeing their battered faces brings him right back to that terrible night. The bright fluorescent lighting, screams ricocheting around the cell block, those barking snapping dogs. He blinks, refocuses on the television,
38:13 Matt Forde? takes a seat next to his wife as a talking head appears, a medic, pointing out the men's wounds, explaining that they're consistent with blunt force trauma. Punching, kicking. But Tom knows it was more than just that. He knows exactly what happened that night. And his stomach heaves recalling it.
38:33 Alice Levine? Every detail we've heard is just so horrifying.
38:36 Matt Forde? And if you were there and you saw it, those memories would be so vivid and sickening. He leans forward as the camera zooms in to Reed's puffy face.
38:44 Speaker 02 That would mean a hundred police officers and a lot of people in some very imminent positions, they would have to be lying.
38:52 Matt Forde? Christ. Reed looks like a dead man walking. But then he hears his wife whisper. You should tell them. He inhales, a long breath, drawn through his teeth as he thinks.
39:07 Matt Forde? They wouldn't listen to me now. Six years ago, he was sacked from the force in disgrace. Falsely accused of stealing five pounds from a prisoner. He even spent two months in prison for it. It was all lies, of course. To this day, he still has no idea who he crossed to warrant it. He sinks back into the sofa as World in Action credits roll. He heard those men screaming for their lives that night. Crying, wailing. And he did nothing. Just stood behind his desk and left them to suffer. He might be eleven years too late, but he knows he has to do something. He couldn't live with himself if he didn't at least try.
39:51 Matt Forde? He's going to break cover and speak up for what is right.
40:00 Matt Forde? Two weeks later, Birmingham. Chris Mullin spreads the map out across his lap, traces their route with his finger. He's spent the last few days chasing leads all over the country. Sources who have come forward in light of their documentary. Grenada is even considering a follow-up. But so far, Mullin hasn't found someone willing to speak on record. He's hoping today's interviewee will be different.
40:28 Matt Forde? Ten minutes later, he is sat at Tom Clark's kitchen table. A steaming mug of instant coffee in front of him. Clark and his wife clasping one another's hands. Mullin opens his notepad.
40:42 Matt Forde? I understand you worked with Detective Reed? He watches as Clark's wife gives him an encouraging nudge. I was there, the night of the arrest. Mullin leans in, glances down at his notes. As a duty officer. Clark lowers his eyes. On television, you showed the men's faces. But most officers concentrate their beatings to the torso, so it doesn't show up in mug shots. The bulk of the violence happened below the neck.
41:13 Alice Levine? That is chilling. Not that it would be right if it was in the heat of the moment, but the idea that they're doing it so often that they have a way of hiding it, it's just, it makes your mind boggle.
41:24 Matt Forde? It's clearly so cultural. It's almost like it's part of the education. Identify yourself as a police officer, read them their rights, and remember to only beat them on the torso. Um, right, next slide. Mullin feels his heartbeat start to quicken. I'm first aid trained, so I know the difference between a laceration, a contusion, an abrasion. They had them all. Bruised ribs, blisters. A couple got cigarette burns, third degree. You know, through to the fat. Mullin frantically scribbles down what Clark is saying with a shudder. One of them had stitches from a recent operation just above his liver. That's where officers have been punching him, almost splitting back open. I mean, this is more like stuff that you'd expect to happen in Guantanamo Bay.
42:09 Matt Forde? This is like high-level torture. And this was happening in this country not that long ago, probably to a lot of people.
42:17 Alice Levine? Yes, and one of the most shocking things is that there was photographic evidence. So they did this, they were so arrogant, they were so sure that they were untouchable. They did it out in the open and they could just give a flimsy excuse and it was enough that we're police officers and our word is sufficient.
42:33 Matt Forde? Mullin wincers. And you saw all of this happen? The beatings I only heard, the bits I saw. His voice drifts off.
42:46 Matt Forde? It was more psychological. Mullin shoots a look at Charles. Sleep deprivation, guards waiting for them to drift off, then aiming a shotgun at them and screaming, get up, get up. They'd wet themselves in fear. One of them shit himself. He was left to sit in it for hours whilst.
43:06 Matt Forde? Clark drops his head. His wife places a hand on his back. Mr. Clark, do you believe the men's confessions were forced? Clark glances at his wife. I only saw what I saw. But Mullin interrupts. Would you be prepared to go on record with this? Mullin sees him bristle.
43:28 Matt Forde? I can't go on camera. I have a record. I was thrown out of the force. But Mullin cuts across him. He's not asking about the documentary anymore. He's got something bigger in mind. The cameras can wait. I'm asking if you'll sign an affidavit, testify to this formally. Clark fidgets. Testify to who? Mullin glances at Charles. He knows the position he's asking Clark to put himself in. But if what he's saying is true, then the entire West Midlands Serious Crime Squad not only tortured inmates, they repeatedly, systematically lied about it. Purged themselves to cover up their own crimes.
44:12 Matt Forde? And a confession like that doesn't need to go on telly. It needs to go all the way to the top. It needs to go to the Home Secretary.
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44:57 Speaker 08 For decades, two legendary brands fought for the hearts of American bikers: Indian Motorcycle and Harley-Davidson. The battle looked a lot like Coke versus Pepsi or Ford versus Chevy. But tastes changed and Indian didn't adapt fast enough. The icon all but died. Then came the Con Men, the Dreamers, a string of spectacular failures that kept Indian in the grave, until one company finally got it right. This is the story of an improbable revival and the reignition of an old rivalry. Hey, I'm David Brown, the host of the podcast Business Wars. And every season, we bring you the true stories behind the companies that shape our world. Indian's new owners are going all in, but an existential crisis looms. Can Indian and Harley recruit enough younger riders to survive?
45:40 Speaker 08 Make sure to follow Business Wars wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all episodes of Business Wars early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.
46:00 Matt Forde? January 1986, Westminster, London. Sir John Farr, MP for Harborough, sits in his parliamentary office, his spirit withering at the mound of letters piled in his in-tray. All viewers of World in Action, who've learned Paddy Hill is serving his life sentence in Farr's constituency. Thousands demanding his instant release. Thousands more demanding he never be let out. As he picks up the next letter from the pile, there's a knock at the door. Sir, I have a, um, a Mr Mullin at reception. He's insisting he speak with you. Farr racks his brain, tries to remember where he's heard that name.
46:45 Matt Forde? He's about to brush him away when he realises with horror that it's the documentary maker. Christ! Farr paces his room. He can hardly refuse. He doesn't want to become part of the story. Show him in.
47:00 Matt Forde? A few minutes later, a tall, owlish man strides up to his desk, a satchel tucked tightly under his arm, and introduces himself. I must say, you're much easier to get hold of than the Home Secretary. Farr chuckles. Ha! I try not to be, but I've been inundated with letters, and to be honest, I haven't the foggiest how to answer them. Mullin hauls his satchel up, slips a thick folder from it, grins. Well, this includes all the information uncovered by our recent investigation, plus significant statements from new leads we've met since its broadcast. Farr takes the folder, silently starts leafing through. But as he does, his stomach starts to turn.
47:46 Matt Forde? He reads in horror the gruesome details of Tom Clark's sworn affidavit. Pictures cigarettes burning into fat. The Home Office has spent the last month ignoring my calls, refusing meetings. Farr takes in Mullin's determined stare. I'll be frank, I need you to get this on the Home Secretary's desk for me.
48:08 Matt Forde? Farr feels his skin prickle. Me? The IRA are as active as they've ever been. Sixteen consecutive days of bombing in London last summer. Dozens more in towns and cities across the country. Not to mention the ever-present hit they have out on his party leader, Mrs Thatcher. As if reading his mind, Mullin interjects. I appreciate this is sensitive, Mr Farr, but I am convinced the wrong men are in prison. Men you represent. Farr knows he risks his parliamentary career if he takes this forward, not to mention his public standing.
48:45 Alice Levine? I mean, of course, half the letters were saying, keep them banged up, even in the face of all that evidence.
48:52 Matt Forde? This is the problem with being a politician, is a load of people will write to you and say, we need speed humps on Main Street because cars are tearing down here, someone's going to get killed. You put the speed humps in on Main Street and everyone's happy. Until people start driving down Main Street. And a whole load of other people say, why have you put speed humps in on Main Street? My car is now wrecked.
49:14 Alice Levine? I guess the difference between the speed humps on Main Street and this is this is a breach of human rights.
49:20 Matt Forde? I mean, what greater right should a man have than to drive down Main Street, unencumbered by partial cylinders of tarmac that scrape the underside of your car? He glances down again at Clark's testimony. As a Conservative and a Knight of the Realm, Farr has always believed Britain to be a just, honourable society. If an innocent man is behind bars in his constituency, a victim of state violence, then he has a solemn duty to act.
49:52 Alice Levine? Yes, Farr, come on.
49:54 Matt Forde? Farr closes the file, drums his fingers on the cover, looks at the expectant, hopeful glance of Mullins, and decides, leave it with me, I'll see what I can do.
50:12 Matt Forde? One month later, Grenada Studios. Mullins sits in the staff canteen, picking miserably at a slice of walnut cake. He can't understand it. He's taken watertight evidence of malfeasance direct to the desks of government. And nothing, not a peep. He's roused from his thoughts by Charles, charging towards his table, ashen-faced.
50:40 Speaker 02 We've got a problem.
50:42 Matt Forde? Mullins looks up, blinks as Charles foists a letter on him.
50:46 Speaker 02 Read it.
50:47 Matt Forde? Mullins' eyes widen as he spots the insignia on the letterhead. It's the Home Office. He grabs it.
50:55 Speaker 02 Finally.
50:56 Matt Forde? Look, it says, and I quote, "The forensics tests well in action conducted and broadcast were incorrect, based on inaccurate information and gravely misrepresentative of Dr. Scuser's work."
51:11 Matt Forde? Mullins' insides plummet. Our whole argument is based on those tests, Chris. If we've made allegations we can't defend, then... He stares blankly at the letter, as Charles paces in tight circles. No, it's not possible. I... He darts out of the canteen, back to the office, Charles following behind. Rifles frantically through the dividers in the filing cabinet. Pulls out Dr. Skuz's court-submitted method. Dr. Hugh Black's testimony. The report from the technicians at Strathclyde University. Then gets his own notepad, and lays all four out on the desk. Charles, check these with me. First step.
51:57 Matt Forde? Mix-based solution to 1% concentration. Mullins taps his finger to the same instruction across all four documents. 1%, 1%, 1%, 1%. They all tally, correct? Charles inspects them, nods. They work down the list, line by line, comparing each copy of the test methodology. They're all identical. Not a process or a figure out of place. Everything done with perfect precision. Gravely misrepresentative, my arse! I was meticulous with this. You were meticulous. We double-checked, triple-checked.
52:41 Matt Forde? His mind is going a million miles an hour, thoughts colliding off each other. So, what are you saying? The Home Office has made a mistake? Mullins grabs up his phone, dials Sir John Farr. John, that file for the Home Office, did you hand it over? Mullins can barely hear over the sound of his own breathing.
53:03 Speaker 02 I took it there myself.
53:05 Matt Forde? All of it. Tom Clark's affidavit, the mugshots. They've seen it all.
53:10 Speaker 02 Every last page. And they advised me, in words of one syllable, not to pursue it any further. Sorry, Chris. I did what I could.
53:20 Matt Forde? He hangs up, his mouth agape, his mind in freefall. The Home Office hasn't made a mistake. It knows exactly what it's doing. He reads the letter again, and he realizes it isn't just the police trying to cover up the truth about the Birmingham Six. It looks like the government is doing it too.
53:47 Speaker 09 A trucker merges onto the I-10 in New Orleans. He checks his mirrors, the lane is clear, and then boom, impact. A pickup truck, seemingly out of nowhere, scrapes down the side of his 18-wheeler, multiple passengers inside. One man flees the scene, and the driver of the pickup? He doesn't seem all that upset. It didn't feel like a regular accident, because it wasn't. Across the city, truckers are getting sideswiped, all on the same stretch of the same freeway. And behind many of the cases is one person, a Hollywood stunt woman turned personal injury lawyer named Vanessa Moda. This podcast is a story about fake accidents that lead to real consequences, and a scheme that ends in betrayal and murder.
54:32 Speaker 09 Listen to Over My Dead Body: Operation Sideswipe wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
54:47 Speaker 10 Ghosts aren't real. At least, that's what journalist Tristan Redmond always believed. Sure, odd things happen in his childhood bedroom, but ultimately, he shrugged them off. Until he discovered that he wasn't alone, that everyone who lived there after him also had bizarre experiences they couldn't explain. And it gets even weirder. It just so happens that his wife's great-grandmother was murdered in the house next door. Is this ghost somehow connected to her murder? He decides to go where no son-in-law should, digging up a cold case and asking questions that nobody wants answered. Like, could his wife's great-grandfather have gotten away with the perfect crime? The podcast about family secrets, overwhelming coincidence and the things that
55:31 Speaker 10 come back to haunt us. For the best bingeable series like Ghost Story, listen to the Audible True Crime Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can get all episodes early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.
55:52 Matt Forde? From Wondery and Samizdat Audio, this is the second episode in our series, The Birmingham Six.
55:57 Alice Levine? A quick note about our dialogue. In most cases, we can't know exactly what was said, but all of our dramatizations are based on historical research.
56:05 Matt Forde? If you'd like to know more about this story, you can read Error of Judgment: The Truth About the Birmingham Bombings by Chris Mullin. You can watch the World in Action series on the Birmingham bombings, or Who Bombed Birmingham from Grenada TV. And you can listen to the pub bombings from the BBC.
56:21 Alice Levine? British Scandal at Wondery.com is the way to get in touch with ideas, suggestions, complaints, funny random thoughts that pop into your brain. We love hearing from you.
56:29 Matt Forde? British Scandal is hosted by me, Matt Ford.
56:31 Alice Levine? And me, Alice Levine.
56:33 Matt Forde? Written by Chris Lockery. Additional writing by Alice Levine and Matt Ford. Our story editor is James Maniac. Sound design by Rich Evans. Our engineer is Jai Williams. For Samizdat, our producer is Redsey Bernard. Our assistant producer is Louise Mason. Our senior producers are Joe Sykes and Dasha Lissidzina. For Wondery, our senior producer is Theodora Leludis, and our senior managing producer is Rachel Sibley. Executive producers for Wondery are Estelle Doyle, Chris Bourne, and Marshall Louie.
57:16 Speaker 11 Journalist Daphne Caruana Galizia spent her life exposing powerful people. Then, in 2017, she was killed in a car bombing.
57:26 Speaker 11 I'm Stephen Gray, and for the past nine years, I've been trying to find out who wanted her dead. That search took me to Malta through secret companies, organized crime, and eventually to one of the island's richest and most powerful men. Now, after years of waiting, his trial has finally happened. But when the verdict came in, the case took a turn that almost no one had expected. In a brand new update to the multi-award-winning podcast, Who Killed Daphne?, I'm returning to Malta to find out how we got there and where the search for the truth goes next. Listen to the new episode of Who Killed Daphne? wherever you get your podcasts, and you can hear the full six-part investigation from the beginning, ad-free, with Audible. Join Audible today by downloading the Audible
58:09 Speaker 11 app and by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.
58:15 Speaker 12 In the summer of 1881, US Army Lieutenant Adolphus Greeley and 24 other men embarked on an ambitious scientific mission to the northernmost reaches of the Arctic. But despite several triumphs of discovery, the men would soon face tragedy. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of the podcast American History Tellers. We take you to the events, times, and people that shaped America and Americans, our values, our struggles, and our dreams. In our latest series, after Adolphus Greeley and his men arrive at their destination more than 1,000 miles above the Arctic Circle, they get to work collecting scientific data and exploring the frigid landscape. But when resupply ships fail to reach them two summers
58:56 Speaker 12 in a row, they're forced to set out on a desperate search for rescue, and not all of them will make it home. Follow American History Tellers wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all episodes of American History Tellers: Greeley Arctic Expedition, early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.
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