Julian Assange | No Secrets | 1

Julian Assange dreams of a world where secrets are open and truth reigns. So he builds a haven for whistleblowers, Wikileaks.org. But when a US military leak sparks a global controversy, it puts his source in danger. Will Assange's ideals survive the storm? Listen to British Scandal on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting https://wondery.com/links/british-scandal/ now. Do you have a suggestion for a scandal you would like us to cover? Or perhaps you have a question you would like to ask our hosts? Email us at [email protected] EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ nordvpn.com/scandal http://nordvpn.com/scandal Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Alice Levine?

  Audible subscribers can listen to all episodes of British Scandal ad-free right now. Join Audible today by downloading the Audible app.

• 0:13Matt Forde?

  Alice, what the hell have you done?

• 0:16Alice Levine?

  Okay, I knew this was going to be a thing. Look, I know that what you told me was in confidence, but there's two reasons that you tell somebody secrets, okay? One is idle, senseless chit-chat, but the other is because of the greater good, to do the right thing and to live by a moral code. And I know you might not like me, but I hope you respect me.

• 0:38Matt Forde?

  You got that information out of me by getting me drunk. Have you ever considered what the effect on me is going to be? My life is going to be hell now. So, please, help me understand how on earth this is for the greater good.

• 0:51Alice Levine?

  Okay, I guess, to put it in simple terms, the adulation and the praise of strangers by telling them gossip about you means more to me than this friendship?

• 1:08Matt Forde?

  When you put it like that, it does make sense. But I don't understand the public interest in you telling everyone that I wear Popeye pyjamas.

• 1:18Alice Levine?

  People are weird. Not you, they're cool.

• 1:24Matt Forde?

  19th of June 2012, 8 a.m., Knightsbridge, London. Julian Assange throttles the engine of his Honda CB500, adjusts his black leather jacket and helmet as he leans in to take a corner on the otherwise empty West London Street. He glances in the mirror, checking if he's being followed, and pulls up outside the Ecuadorian embassy. He jumps off the bike, races up to the large black door and presses the buzzer. He starts to speak. "I have a package," then checks himself. "For the ambassador."

• 2:03Alice Levine?

  For the purposes of the tape, I presume that he has switched accents rather than you've just taken a funny turn.

• 2:09Matt Forde?

  Yes, this isn't me workshopping.

• 2:12Alice Levine?

  This is Matt doing Assange doing his natural Australian, then doing Cockney. Wow, wow.

• 2:21Matt Forde?

  He glances again down the street, his heart racing as he waits.

• 2:25Speaker 02

  We're not expecting anything.

• 2:28Matt Forde?

  He starts to sweat, adopts a more forceful tone. I've been told it's urgent. He hears a siren in the distance, raises his fist, ready to bang on the door, when he hears the lock click open. He rushes inside and bounce at the staircase. Crashes into the reception area, where two women look up startled. Julian races over and lifts off his helmet, revealing his trademark shock of white hair. My name is Julian Assange. The British authorities have taken urgent steps to extradite me with a view to making me face espionage charges in the United States. Your president has granted me asylum here, which I wish to invoke with immediate effect. For a moment, they both look utterly perplexed.

• 3:14Matt Forde?

  Then one of them steps forward. I'm the Ecuadorian ambassador, Ana Olban Mora. President Correa has said nothing about this to me. Julian shakes his head. Ms. Mora, I can assure you... But Mora cuts in. Whatever conversations or agreements you think you've made, I must ask you to leave until... Julian rushes over to the large window, looks out onto the street below. At least a dozen Met Police officers are pouring out of a van. His eyes widen at the sight of the guns.

• 3:50Matt Forde?

  The windows start to rattle as a police helicopter comes into view overhead. Julian's whole body trembles, he's running out of time. Ambassador Mora nods at two large security guards, who make their way towards him. Julian glances back outside at the reporters and TV crews arriving.

• 4:10Matt Forde?

  Maybe, just maybe, he can use them to force Mora's hand.

• 4:16Matt Forde?

  He pushes the window open and shouts into the crisp early morning air. "I am Julian Assange. I'm a political prisoner. But thanks to the Ecuadorian constitution and the courage of its president, I have been granted asylum here, safe from those who wish to silence me." He glares back at Ambassador Mora. "Believe me, Ambassador, your president might be happy if he switches on his TV to see British police dragging me out of here." Ambassador Mora looks unsure now, but she doesn't call the security guards off. As they close in behind Julian, his stomach churns. This has to work, because if it doesn't, he'll be sent to the US, where life in prison awaits.

• 5:03Matt Forde?

  Or maybe worse. He could be sentenced to death.

• 5:14Speaker 03

  With the Venture X Business Card from Capital One, you earn unlimited double miles on every purchase. Plus, big purchasing power means you can spend more and earn more. The Capital One Venture X Business Card. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com for details.

• 5:30Speaker 04

  Hi, I'm Sachi Cole, co-host of Scamfluencers from Audible Originals. Disgraced Theranos founder Elizabeth Holmes let a film crew see everything before she went to prison, or at least that's what she wanted them to think. In our latest episode, we dig into the documentary that has everyone asking, "Who's really running the con?" Listen to Scamfluencers on Audible or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 5:55Alice Levine?

  From Wondery, I'm Alice Levine.

• 5:56Matt Forde?

  And I'm Matt Ford.

• 5:57Alice Levine?

  And this is British Scandal, the show where we bring you the murkier stories that ever happened on these odd little isles.

• 6:04Matt Forde?

  British scandals come in many shapes and sizes. Some are about money, some are about sex, they're all about power.

• 6:11Alice Levine?

  But when we look at scandals a bit closer, they turn out to be stranger, wilder, just plain weirder than we remember.

• 6:18Matt Forde?

  So we're journeying back to ask who's to blame for what happened.

• 6:21Alice Levine?

  And when the dust settled, did anything really change?

• 6:34Matt Forde?

  Okay, Alice, before we start this episode, I've got a mea culpa. Actually, it's a you-a-culpa.

• 6:40Alice Levine?

  What do you mean?

• 6:41Matt Forde?

  Well, you have really upset the good people of Australia.

• 6:46Alice Levine?

  No, I have. What do you mean?

• 6:48Matt Forde?

  Well, I take it you haven't seen the emails. So as soon as the case of the missing aristocrat went out, our inbox was flooded with good Australian people correcting our pronunciation of the town where Arthur Orton was living as a butcher. We were saying Wagga Wagga, and it's actually pronounced Wagga Wagga.

• 7:04Alice Levine?

  Okay, I dread to think the other things I mispronounced as well. Australia, I am sorry, but I thank you for pointing this out. [email protected] for all of the other things that need correcting. This show is going to get so long. This is going to be an hour and a half, and most of it will be caveats and apologies at the beginning. If there's anything that you want to let us know about, mainly Matt's mistakes, I think, would get us on the straight and narrow, or even if you've got an idea for a scandal, or you just want to say hi.

• 7:29Matt Forde?

  Yes, and I would like to take this opportunity to apologize for future mispronunciations, not just those ones in the past. So from one Aussie problem to another, we've got a complicated protagonist for you this series. Sometimes we have very clear goodies.

• 7:44Alice Levine?

  Yes, Litvinenko, the Pankhursts, obviously Archer.

• 7:48Matt Forde?

  A great all. Sometimes we have baddies that we love to bring down.

• 7:52Alice Levine?

  Okay, yeah, Murdochs, Moan, Truss.

• 7:56Matt Forde?

  And sometimes we have a lovable tragic Keira.

• 7:59Alice Levine?

  Oh, so many. I mean, Becker, the Peru Two, Gazza.

• 8:03Matt Forde?

  But for this series, oh, boy. We've got someone that is a lightning rod for controversy and has stirred pots worldwide. What are the first things you think of when I say the name Julian Assange?

• 8:17Alice Levine?

  Long white hair, the Ecuadorian embassy. I think, why was Pamela Anderson visiting?

• 8:23Matt Forde?

  Yes, all those things are true. He is primarily known for his lack of vitamin D. But what is your more general impression of him?

• 8:30Alice Levine?

  Okay, obviously a highly controversial individual. But WikiLeaks was probably the most famous whistleblowing event in our lifetime.

• 8:38Matt Forde?

  And he is the founder of it, and he published a load of US military and diplomatic secrets. He's all about transparency and the truth. He believes in journalistic freedom. These all feel like very good things, but there are also a lot of questions about whether he was putting people in danger, whether he has some sort of Messiah complex, and whether he's not necessarily such a great guy.

• 9:00Alice Levine?

  Depending on who you talk to, he's a hero, a villain, a freedom fighter, a terrorist, a narcissist, a very dangerous man. I don't know that we've ever had a protagonist on British Scandal where so many people have such differing views.

• 9:15Matt Forde?

  Although, the one thing we can all agree on is that he definitely needs a haircut. We are going to dig deep into the story of Julian Assange, from the founding of WikiLeaks to his relationship with Chelsea Manning, and yes, his long, long imprisonment/hideaway in the Ecuadorian embassy in London.

• 9:32Alice Levine?

  Please tell me you're gonna clear up the Pamela Anderson thing once and for all.

• 9:34Matt Forde?

  I promise you we will get there. This is episode one, No Secrets.

• 9:41Matt Forde?

  Six years earlier, May 2006, Melbourne University, Australia. Julian Assange drums his fingers on the small lacquered table. His eyes drift to the poster of Max Planck on the wall.

• 9:55Alice Levine?

  Max Planck being?

• 9:57Matt Forde?

  A godfather of modern physics and a man with a splendid moustache.

• 10:01Alice Levine?

  So when you say poster, we kind of mean portrait rather than him topless, holding a baby or something?

• 10:06Matt Forde?

  Yes, it's not the sort of poster you would have got in Athena or a football magazine.

• 10:12Matt Forde?

  The middle-aged man opposite Assange drones on about the deadline he's missed. The thing is, Julian, I understand it can be challenging as a mature student, but if you had come to me, asked for an extinction, given me reasons why you needed it... Julian had hoped university would give him a routine, a more rooted existence. He spent most of his 35 years bouncing from city to city, and the latter half working on the political fringes as a hacker or on the run from the law. All he wanted to do at university was immerse himself in pure mathematics. Instead, he's in a constant battle with second-tier academics over deadlines. You're one of my brightest students, certainly the most socially engaged.

• 10:54Alice Levine?

  Which is not to be confused with being socially at ease, of course.

• 10:58Matt Forde?

  No, that's right. You're very alert to the problems that society faces, but you've got no mates.

• 11:03Alice Levine?

  Wow. True, yeah.

• 11:06Matt Forde?

  I was just talking to you.

• 11:06Alice Levine?

  Oh, right. Sorry. Beg your pardon.

• 11:08Matt Forde?

  Julian stands up, gets his back, hears himself mutter... Alright, I'll get it to you by the end of the week. Ten minutes later, he's fuming as he rides his bicycle through the city. The thoughts keep going through his head. What the hell is he doing with his life? Why is he wasting so much time and energy on this trivial shit when...

• 11:43Matt Forde?

  Julian slowly opens his eyes. Harsh strip lighting burns into his retinas.

• 11:49Matt Forde?

  Julian, can you hear me? Julian blinks panicked, as the faces of strangers loom over him. It's okay, Julian. You're in hospital. You had a nasty crash. You're lucky to be here with just a few broken bones. Julian tries to lean forward, but an excruciating stab of pain shoots through his right arm, forcing him back. Julian gasps for breath as he feels a needle prick in his arm. We'll give you something for that, okay? He blinks into the blinding light, as a calm, floating sensation courses through his body. He marvels at the colours, as shapes and images start filling his head, like a showreel of his past.

• 12:33Matt Forde?

  His mother lifting him onto her shoulders at an anti-war demo. Endless streams of computer code.

• 12:40Matt Forde?

  The dock of a courtroom. Julian Assange, on the charges of penetrating, altering, or destroying government data, how do you plead?

• 12:49Matt Forde?

  Then he's in a forest, looking around at the trees, kookaburras flying overhead.

• 12:58Matt Forde?

  He starts to hear a distant voice.

• 13:02Matt Forde?

  He leans forward as the doctor comes back into view, the hospital room filling the space behind him.

• 13:09Matt Forde?

  But now, everything is sharper, and Julian's mind is clear. He knows this accident has happened for a reason: to wake him up, force him to use his knowledge, his skills, his beliefs, for more than just pointless dissertations. Screw university. Julian is going to change the world. He just needs to figure out how.

• 13:41Matt Forde?

  Julian walks slowly down Chapel Street, chance with the mob alongside him.

• 13:48Matt Forde?

  He lifts his “No to Iraq” placard into the air, glancing at the shoppers as he passes. Some look mildly intrigued, others tut and glare. He's kept his vow to drop out of uni, but he knows marches like this won't change anything. He wants to do something, something big, but he doesn't know what. Walking back into his tiny flat, Julian pulls out the copy of Time magazine he bought earlier. Its cover story titled “Collateral Damage or Civilian Massacre in Haditha”. He scans the report on how a group of US Marines went on a rampage, killing 24 unarmed Iraqi civilians, including women and children. Julian feels sick, but continues reading.

• 14:34Matt Forde?

  How the US government initially claimed it was a roadside bomb that caused the deaths. How it's taken five months for the truth to surface. And only because a group of Iraqi civilians sought to challenge the official US account. He wonders what else the US government is hiding. Julian marches over to the bookshelf and takes down his copy of Daniel Ellsberg's “Secrets: A Memoir of Vietnam and the Pentagon Papers”. He flicks through the well-worn pages. Ellsberg is his hero. The leaking of the Pentagon Papers shifted public perception. This man actually changed the course of the war.

• 15:16Alice Levine?

  Okay, so Ellsberg is an interesting comparison. Let's talk about Ellsberg a bit.

• 15:20Matt Forde?

  Okay, in 1971, Daniel Ellsberg was working at a think tank as a high-ranking defence analyst, and he had access to classified government documents which proved the American government had misled the public and Congress about the scope and purpose of the Vietnam War. And he took that classified information, leaked it, because no politician wanted to put it in the public realm, and that became known as the Pentagon Papers. The leak of that information effectively was a major pressure on the United States eventually pulling out of Vietnam. So that vital information that Ellsberg was able to get to the public helped drain public support for the Vietnam War, it shifted people's perceptions of it, and effectively was a huge pressure on the government to withdraw from Vietnam altogether.

• 16:04Matt Forde?

  It's one thing that he effectively did the right thing and placed vital information into the public realm, but it's also that he made a name for himself and became a folk hero of the anti-war movement. Julian glances up as his teenage lodger enters the room. Julian's taken a British backpacker in for the summer to help with the rent. If you had access to classified information you thought would stop the Iraq War, would you leak it? The lodger snorts, shakes his head. No way. You heard about what happened to David Kelly, right? Julian rubs his forehead. The guy has a point. Kelly had leaked top-secret information on WMDs, but he was later revealed as the source

• 16:46Matt Forde?

  and took his own life. The mainstream media failed him. Julian looks back at his laptop, a flash of inspiration hitting. But what if you could be absolutely sure you were predicted, could even do it anonymously? The lodger pours himself a bowl of cereal, shrugs. Well, then I, I guess, yeah. Julian's mind begins racing. The big change since Ellsberg's leak is the internet, the darkest depths of which Julian knows all too well. What if he could use his tech skills for good, to protect the anonymity of would-be whistleblowers? He grabs a pen and a Post-it pad from the side, starts scribbling frantically.

• 17:31Matt Forde?

  Two hours later, he stands back and admires the hundreds of notes on the kitchen whiteboard, scrawled with phrases: "Full transparency, no secrets, and no prosecution." He sits back at his laptop, where the screen displays reams of code. He just needs a name, something simple that everyone can remember. He feels goose pimples form as it comes to him. He jumps up and goes back to his board, makes a space in the centre, then he grabs a marker pen and writes in big letters: wikileaks.org.

• 18:08Alice Levine?

  Okay, it's 2006, so a wiki is not common parlance, and perhaps there'll be people listening now who still don't know. So a wiki, of course, a collaborative site edited by a community of users. Basically, anyone can add, edit, amend, and it's a sort of joint project, a joint entity.

• 18:29Matt Forde?

  That's right. It effectively self-polices, and everyone can then finesse posts in order to get it closer to the truth. And it is fascinating that Assange is obviously inspired by Ellsberg, but they are distinct individuals. Ellsberg was an insider who found information and was trying to get it into the public domain but didn't have any means himself to do that. Assange is an outsider who's going to create a platform to get information out, but he currently doesn't have any information to leak. January 2008. The Chaos Communication Conference, Berlin, Germany. Daniel Domshiteberg pushes his glasses at the bridge of his nose, drags his hand across

• 19:11Matt Forde?

  his close-cut beard, and peers at the almost-alien-looking man on stage. A pair of olive-green cargo pants hang off his gangly limbs, his white hair framing his youthful face.

• 19:23Alice Levine?

  Tell me more.

• 19:24Matt Forde?

  But it's what the man is saying that's most interesting to Daniel. So, in an audio world, everyone has the right to access all information, and with Wikileaks, whistleblowers can share it without censorship. Daniel's brow furrows as he waits for the sales pitch, the catch. But instead, "Radical transparency is a way of bringing power to account, and we keep whistleblowers safe." Daniel feels the hairs on the back of his neck stand up. He has just finished reading the latest revelations about the US government's cover-ups of torture at Abu Ghraib. His hand shoots into the air. "How do you protect whistleblowers?" The man looks incredulous, as if it's the dumbest question in the world.

• 20:09Matt Forde?

  Daniel feels his cheeks burn. But he forces himself to hold the guy's gaze. "Through a combination of encryption and operational security, we encourage leakers to use Tor, which..." Daniel finds himself cutting in. "Anonymises internet traffic, sure. And your submission platform?"

• 20:28Alice Levine?

  Oh! Daniel knows what he's talking about. Switcheroo.

• 20:33Matt Forde?

  Have you heard of Tor?

• 20:34Alice Levine?

  No, have you?

• 20:35Matt Forde?

  Yeah.

• 20:36Alice Levine?

  What's Tor?

• 20:37Matt Forde?

  So it's a thing that doesn't allow anyone viewing your page to see what your IP is, basically. So the more people on the network, their sort of location bounces around. It would look as if though your laptop was constantly changing location, so they wouldn't be able to narrow in on you.

• 20:50Alice Levine?

  And how do you know about that?

• 20:51Matt Forde?

  I knew a guy...

• 20:53Alice Levine?

  Here we go.

• 20:55Matt Forde?

  The speaker replies. "Completely private. No source needs to reveal their IP address. We also have a strict policy of no personal communication with leakers." The man looks around the room. "Any other questions?" There's complete silence. Only now does Daniel notice all the empty seats. The speaker abruptly shuts his laptop, sticks it into a small backpack, and exits the stage. Daniel rushes out after him, just in time to see the backpack disappear into the myriad flashing LED displays lining the lobby. He races to catch the man up.

• 21:33Matt Forde?

  "I'm Daniel. Your website. I'd love to get involved." The man moves his eyes to Daniel's hand, which has a vise-like grip on his elbow. Daniel blushes as he releases it, but goes on. "Something like WikiLeaks would not have been possible in Germany 20 years ago. What with everything that's happening in Iraq? We have a responsibility to do more, to bring governments to account when they suppress the truth." Now the guy seems to study him more carefully. Then, he smiles. "I'm Julian. You can contact me via the site, if you want to volunteer." Daniel feels a flood of excitement as he watches him go. He's finally found something to be inspired by.

• 22:16Matt Forde?

  And he's going to do everything he can to help WikiLeaks grow.

• 22:26Matt Forde?

  Two years later, February 2010. Forward Operating Base, Iraq. Okay, let's just a bit of context and to explain some of the vocabulary. I'm going to introduce a character that gets a lot of coverage in association with the Assange story, Chelsea Manning.

• 22:43Alice Levine?

  Of course, yes.

• 22:44Matt Forde?

  At this point in 2010, Chelsea was treated and acknowledged as a man known as Bradley Manning. So because of that, in this series, we're going to refer to them as Private Manning.

• 22:56Alice Levine?

  Got you, thank you very much.

• 22:58Matt Forde?

  Private Manning stares at the grainy pictures playing out on their colleague's screen. Aerial footage of an Apache helicopter airstrike on a group of Iraqi men on the ground in Baghdad.

• 23:10Speaker 02

  Light them all up. Look at those shit bastards. Nice.

• 23:17Matt Forde?

  Manning feels a wave of nausea. Four months into this posting as a data analyst, it's impossible to get used to the way everyone watches these like they're video games. Manning's about to walk away when the next bit of the video grabs their attention.

• 23:33Speaker 02

  Looks like we got slight movement in the van. Looks like a kid.

• 23:37Matt Forde?

  Manning takes a sharp intake of breath and waits for more.

• 23:41Speaker 02

  I got 11 Iraqis killed in action. Two small children injured, one with a serious wound to the belly. Damn. Oh, well. They're fault for bringing their kids to a battle.

• 23:52Alice Levine?

  So this is footage that a lot of people will remember seeing at the time, I certainly do. And video game is a good comparison when you hear the way that the people are talking, when you hear the audio on it. There's a crosshair in the middle of the screen and you're looking at an aerial view of a group of people being tracked by this helicopter. And you hear them planning to shoot. And when they do open fire, the dialogue continues and you realise that they're civilians that are being shot at and that there are kids who are being targeted. And you expect this shift in the dialogue, you expect this shift in the mood when they realise what they've done. But in fact, it becomes even more flippant and they double down.

• 24:33Matt Forde?

  Yes. None of us envy soldiers who have to take parts in war that either they did or didn't agree with. And in war, it's horrific, we know mistakes are made. You hope that in those moments, there is remorse and horror when a wrong decision has been taken. So when you hear them talk like this, it makes you wonder what else was going on. Manning starts to feel lightheaded, whispers, "What is this?" The private at the desk shrugs. Legal training video. Manning can't believe it. Are US Army lawyers using footage of kids being shot at, nearly killed, as a teaching exercise to show what they can get away with?

• 25:16Matt Forde?

  Desperate for air, Manning rushes outside and blinks into the bright morning sun. The stifling forty-degree heat hits like a truck. Manning lights a cigarette and casts their eyes around the dusty fences topped with razor wire, the drones flying overhead. Manning joined the Army to make a difference, to make a valuable contribution to America's security, not to perpetuate war crimes. An hour later, Manning moves the cursor on the screen to the file with the Apache footage. Beads of sweat form as the other operative looks over and catches Manning's eye.

• 25:55Matt Forde?

  Manning takes a breath, wipes the sweat away, and turns on the small fan on the desk. Manning considers a file transfer but decides it's too risky. That video has to be downloaded and physically carried out of the room. Glancing at the flashing light on the CD drive, then at the Walkman on the desk, an idea forms. Hand trembling, Manning leans forward and slips a burned CD marked Lady Gaga from the Walkman, slides it into the computer's CD drive, starts to drag the Apache footage across the screen. Is just about to drop it in the CD folder when a light catches the screen.

• 26:40Matt Forde?

  It's a reflection of a figure. Manning freezes, turns.

• 26:49Matt Forde?

  Private Manning. Looking round to see a senior officer. Manning's whole body goes rigid as he picks up the CD case. Sir? Manning watches in horror as the senior officer stares at the case for what feels like an eternity.

• 27:06Matt Forde?

  You really listen to this shit? Do yourself a favour and get some Foo Fighters.

• 27:12Alice Levine?

  Oh my god. I'd be like, I will immediately, I absolutely, I love the Foo Fighters, I love whatever you love, I will listen to whatever you want me to listen to, thank you sir.

• 27:20Matt Forde?

  Manning almost faints with relief as the officer throws down the case and walks off. Looking back at the terminal, Manning sees it's downloaded. It's done.

• 27:33Matt Forde?

  Palms sweating, Manning ejects the CD, sticks it into the case and back in their bag. Manning can hardly believe they're about to walk out of here with classified military footage. Now all they have to do is work out who to leak it to.

• 27:58Speaker 04

  Journalist Tristan Redman goes where no son-in-law should ever go. Deep into his wife's family history, digging up the cold case of who murdered her great-grandmother. Because, I should mention, he thinks the murderer might actually be the beloved family patriarch. For the best binge-watch series like Ghost Story, listen to the Audible True Crime Podcast wherever you get your podcasts.

• 28:19Speaker 05

  Imagine you're reading Pride and Prejudice, except you're not reading it. Harris Dickinson and Marissa Abella are reading it to you on Audible. Her barbs sting you, his coldness sends a shiver up your spine. Your heart aches, your ears burn, you yearn for Elizabeth and Mr Darcy to profess their undying love for one another, you can't bear it any longer. Well, maybe a chapter longer. Performance is so good, you'll give love a second chance. Audible. Stories that speak to you.

• 28:57Matt Forde?

  March 2010, Iceland.

• 29:04Matt Forde?

  Julian watches in awe as their AF Yatla Jököltel volcano belches out another explosion of molten narve and ash.

• 29:13Alice Levine?

  Sorry, I just turned out for a sec. Which volcano again?

• 29:15Matt Forde?

  Let me just... The AF Yatla Jököltel. You know it.

• 29:20Alice Levine?

  Oh god, yeah, one of my top three.

• 29:23Matt Forde?

  He adjusts his full-length silver snowsuit, then turns to face the moddish group of journalists and photographers assembled behind. How are you enjoying Iceland, Julian? He looks across at Daniel, who gives him a nod. It's a beautiful country. I'm glad WikiLeaks could do its people a service by exposing the corrupt bankers whose actions led to Iceland's financial collapse. Daniel jumps in. And we're loving the puffit!

• 29:49Alice Levine?

  Thank goodness for Daniel, keeping it light.

• 29:52Matt Forde?

  Julian smiles. He has to hand it to Daniel. He's proved a great asset to WikiLeaks. He's also much better at the small talk the press love. Daniel, the site has had its biggest scoop yet with the leaked Sarah Palin emails. Whose inbox will you be infiltrating next?

• 30:10Alice Levine?

  Okay, so to be clear, a few years now after launching, people are engaging with it, people are using it sort of for the reason it was intended.

• 30:17Matt Forde?

  Yeah, the Icelandic banks is a big deal. Sarah Palin obviously was a big political figure for a period of time, so getting her emails is big. So, still dealing with high-profile stories, if not yet, matters of war and peace.

• 30:32Matt Forde?

  Julian eyes the reporter as another shouts out. Maybe you can get us the real story about Maile and Liam's big breakup? Julian bristles. He speaks up before Daniel can. Palin was a vice presidential candidate, and the emails revealed matters of public interest. If you want to know about celebrity gossip, try TMZ or Poppidge. He can hear the defensiveness in his voice. The truth is, he is embarrassed by the trivial nature of those emails. And while Daniel might have embraced the publicity they've had from publishing lists of BNP members and top-secret Scientology handbooks, it's not what Julian hoped to achieve with WikiLeaks. He doesn't feel he's changed anything that really matters. He storms off down the mountain.

• 31:19Alice Levine?

  Sorry, which mountain?

• 31:20Matt Forde?

  Ekefekgudud.

• 31:23Alice Levine?

  Very good.

• 31:24Matt Forde?

  Half an hour later, back at their Reykjavik base, Julian is still in a mood when he's accosted by one of the site's young volunteers. Julian, you need to see something. Julian is about to snap back, but he notices how quiet the room is. He follows the volunteer to a laptop and peers at the screen. It's a video from Iraq. He watches the helicopter pilot, hears him scream.

• 31:50Speaker 02

  Ha, ha, ha, I hit him.

• 31:53Matt Forde?

  He sees a truck start driving over the corpses.

• 31:57Matt Forde?

  Julian sucks in his breath, keeps watching as a man comes to help, only for the helicopter to fire shots at his vehicle. The audio continues for several long minutes, and then...

• 32:10Speaker 02

  I got a live in Iraq, he's killed in action. One small child wounded. God damn. Oh, well.

• 32:18Matt Forde?

  Julian's mouth goes dry.

• 32:21Matt Forde?

  He glances at Daniel, who looks stunned. We need to verify this ASAP.

• 32:27Alice Levine?

  I'm trying to imagine how he must have felt because he's got the apparatus to disseminate this everywhere. He's almost been in a kind of practicing, holding pattern for something of this magnitude. And now, if this is real, this will not only launch the site as a functional way of transmitting this sort of intel, but I can't help think from what you've also told me that it will propel him to heady heights.

• 32:54Matt Forde?

  Yeah, this is his chance to emulate Ellsberg. Julian remains fixed to the spot as the room disperses. His eyes glued to the footage. He watches it again and again, but as he does, something troubles him. At thirty-nine minutes, it's too long. It takes four and a half minutes to get to the "dead bastards" comment. An additional twelve minutes till it becomes clear children have been fired at. Julian beckons Daniel over. "Or what they said in the down of the highlights, some dramatic music edit. I wanna make a feature of it." Daniel looks aghast. "A feature? But, isn't that manipulating the footage?

• 33:38Matt Forde?

  It's making cats, that's not the same." Daniel shakes his head. "That is not what we're about, Julian. We publish in full, just the information." Julian slams his hand on the desk. "This footage is the most explosive thing he's ever seen. He's not gonna miss this opportunity." "We need to make this sing if it's gonna get the attention it deserves. We should give it a name, something that sums up everything it's about." Julian casts his mind back to that Time magazine headline from four years ago. The impact it had on him. He smiles as he realises he can repurpose it. "I fucking got it. Collateral murder."

• 34:19Matt Forde?

  Julian stays on Daniel, certain he'll come around now. This is what he's been longing for. Collateral murder is going to be his Ellsberg moment, his Pentagon Papers. It's time to change the course of history.

• 34:38Alice Levine?

  It's so interesting to hear Daniel pushing against him here because you feel like WikiLeaks was designed to do exactly what Daniel's saying, to put out the raw material, to let everybody see the context, see the nuance, see it in full, then what the media will inevitably do is editorialise it, is chop it up, is edit it, is have their say on it, but this is supposed to be a neutral source of that intel.

• 35:05Matt Forde?

  Yeah, if you're curating it and shaping it from the outset, then effectively you're breaking your own rules.

• 35:12Matt Forde?

  April 2010, Washington Press Club, USA. Julian waits for the sea of reporters before him to spring to life as the 18-minute collateral murder video fades to black on the large screen behind him. Julian, Julian! Mr Assange? Mr Assange? Do you think you were right to title this video with such emotive language?

• 35:34Matt Forde?

  I, uh, the title was simply an attempt to, uh... Is WikiLeaks Now A Political Commentator Rather Than A Sake For Unedited Leaks? Julian's smile fades. I'm not here to discuss what WikiLeaks is or isn't. I'm here to talk about what this video showed. Eleven people murdered, two of whom were reporters. Have you edited other material before putting it on the site, Julian? He clenches his fists. He's not here to defend himself. He's here to discuss murder. He slings his backpack over his shoulder and gets the hell out of there.

• 36:12Matt Forde?

  Outside, Julian kicks a bin across the street.

• 36:19Matt Forde?

  Daniel? I'm afraid all the news channels are taking the White House line, that the killings were lawful, no rules of engagement were broken. Julian collapses onto a parked bench. But you might want to check Twitter. He hangs up and opens the app. He stares in disbelief. The phrase "collateral murder" is trending. The reaction on Twitter, across all social media, is unequivocally positive. Julian Assange is a hero. Anyone who believes in free speech should donate to WikiLeaks now. If you've seen the collateral murder video, you've seen the truth behind America's lies. Make love not war. He clicks on the WikiLeaks site, beams as he sees it's had millions of hits.

• 37:04Matt Forde?

  Grinning, Julian bashes out a tweet. If, as the White House claims these killings are lawful, the US law needs to change. We will keep bringing you the truth.

• 37:17Matt Forde?

  A reply pings back. Anything more out there? Julian's mind is racing. He takes out his laptop and goes to his WikiLeaks inbox, scans it for the message that came with the helicopter footage. His finger hovers over the reply icon. He would never usually contact sources, but he tells himself the rules are worth bending in this case. If he can get something even more shocking, that the US government can't dismiss so easily. Before he can stop himself, he begins to type.

• 37:53Matt Forde?

  One week later, April 2010. Forward Operating Base, Iraq. Private Manning tugs on a cigarette, draws the smoke deep into the lungs, and flicks from one news site to another. Manning expected the Apache footage to be explosive, but right now, it seems the mainstream media isn't interested. Grinding a cigarette into the ashtray, Manning pulls up an email, stares at the message they received from WikiLeaks shortly after the footage was launched. They've read about Julian Assange in the news, seen pictures of him with his long white hair. Manning wonders if the message is from him. Glancing at the clock on the computer screen,

• 38:37Matt Forde?

  they slam the laptop shut. In the Tactical Operations Center, Manning scans the latest footage they've been sent for analysis. It's been a struggle to focus the past few days. Taking a sip of coffee, Manning lets their eyes dart to the large screen at the far end of the room, on which a live feed shows footage of US Guards in Guantanamo Bay. Instead of getting on with work, Manning scrolls through the long library of files in the database archive. Stops at one-headed: Detainee Assessment Briefs, Guantanamo, August to September 2007.

• 39:16Alice Levine?

  Just imagine, once you're critical, or at least cynical, about what the organisation's doing, imagine the access that you have, imagine the files that are at your fingertips.

• 39:28Matt Forde?

  Yes, the temptation then is going to be to leak all of it, but also the stuff you're going to read and see is going to be so grim that that is going to come at some personal cost. Manning clicks on the file, expecting to be denied access. Amazingly, it opens to reveal a list of reports. Manning glances around. As usual, the other analysts are fixated on their own screens. Turning back to the computer, a familiar feeling of nausea hits. Details of inmates being held on the flimsiest charges, of torture practices. Manning digs deeper into the archive. Access to field reports on tactical operations in Iraq.

• 40:11Matt Forde?

  A database appears, titled Net Centric Diplomacy, which holds over a quarter of a million top secret diplomatic cables. Suddenly, from across the room. Manning, team briefing! Manning closes the file and clicks off the screen, glances at the time, checks it against the clock on the wall. How have two hours passed, and in all that time not a single person asked what they were doing? A few minutes later in the briefing room, Manning zones out as officers ramble on about counterintelligence reports and geopolitical security concerns. Because right now, all they're thinking about is how to go further, leak data that can't be dismissed, that will have a real impact.

• 40:56Matt Forde?

  The public needs to see the truth, needs to see everything. Manning's going to get back in touch with WikiLeaks, going to offer them more, much, much more. This time, the mainstream media and the world will take notice of what America is really doing in Iraq.

• 41:23Matt Forde?

  25th of May 2010, Kansas, USA. Hacker Adrian Larmo pushes open the door of the rundown diner. He shifts his large frame into a banquette by the window, orders a pot of coffee, then clicks open his AOL Instant Messenger. He stares again at the message he received a few minutes ago. It's from a username he doesn't recognise. But he follows the text as it comes through.

• 41:51Speaker 06

  I read about you in Wired magazine. How are you? I'm an army intelligence analyst deployed to eastern Baghdad. I'm sure you're pretty busy, but...

• 42:00Matt Forde?

  Adrian's used to receiving these kinds of messages from devotees, ever since he achieved notoriety for hacking into AOL, Yahoo and the New York Times in the early noughties. But there is something different about this one. His eyes stay fixed on the flashing cursor as he waits for more.

• 42:18Speaker 06

  If you had unprecedented access to classified military networks, 14 hours a day, 7 days a week, for 8+ months, and you saw awful things that belonged in the public domain, what would you do?

• 42:31Matt Forde?

  His hands hover over his keyboard. He's always believed information should be free.

• 42:38Matt Forde?

  Finally, he types. What kind of data are we talking about? The reply comes straight away.

• 42:44Speaker 06

  Crazy, almost criminal political back dealings. The non-PR version of world events and crises.

• 42:51Matt Forde?

  Larmo rereads the message as more lines of text appear.

• 42:55Speaker 06

  I can't believe what I'm confessing to you. But I've been so isolated for so long, I...

• 43:00Alice Levine?

  This totally sounds like my favourite clickbait line ever, which is: "The one thing this lonely housewife doesn't want you to know." It sounds like that!

• 43:11Matt Forde?

  Favorite clickmate.

• 43:12Alice Levine?

  Yeah, because I'm like, why is she so lonely? It makes me sad. And also, what is the one thing? What doesn't she want you to know?

• 43:19Matt Forde?

  Why is she so secretive?

• 43:20Alice Levine?

  Yeah, why is she so secretive? It's the idea that lonely is supposed to be sexy. She's so lonely, you know, is she? Oh.

• 43:27Matt Forde?

  Melancholic singles in your area.

• 43:31Matt Forde?

  Adrian feels a sting of empathy. Perhaps it's because this person seems so earnest or so vulnerable. Perhaps it's because being autistic, he knows how it feels to be different. Alone. He wants to help. Consider me your priest. What are you confessing to? There's a pause. And then?

• 43:52Speaker 06

  Mining data and uploading it to a crazy white-haired Aussie equals Julian Assange.

• 43:58Matt Forde?

  He almost spits out his coffee as the leaker explains just how much data they've sent to Julian Assange. Lomos, a champion of WikiLeaks, has made donations himself. But this is crazy. These are the most secret documents in the US military. If they get out, thousands of soldiers' lives could be in danger. Are you concerned about FBI looking into the Wiki stuff? The reply comes fast.

• 44:23Speaker 06

  I just couldn't let these things stay inside the system and inside my head. I guess I'm just weird. I'm only 22 and I still care.

• 44:32Matt Forde?

  By the time Adrian signs off, he feels show shocked. If WikiLeaks publishes the kind of data this person claims to have leaked, it would be a data breach the likes of which his generation has never seen, could end up killing American troops. He's never considered himself patriotic, but can he really put the well-being of a whole nation at risk? Local informants, military personnel, diplomats? Because of the actions of a lost 22-year-old kid? Adrian has never snitched on anyone before, but he thinks there's some sort of cosmic reason this person's reached out to him tonight. He tells himself he's doing the right thing for his country, for the world.

• 45:17Matt Forde?

  And if that means that this leaker and Julian Assange have to face the most serious consequences, so be it.

• 45:34Speaker 04

  In January 1995, 18-year-old Krista Pike and two friends lured a classmate, 19-year-old Colleen Slammer, to an abandoned steam plant and killed her. At just 20 years old, Pike was sentenced to death. 30 years later, on September 30, 2026, the state of Tennessee tried to execute her and failed. I'm Candace DeLong, former FBI profiler and host of the podcast Killer Psyche, where we go inside the minds behind the most shocking crimes. In our latest episode, we take you inside the case of Krista Pike. The brutal crime, the childhood of abuse, three decades of appeals, and the night

• 46:17Speaker 04

  an execution went terribly wrong. Follow Killer Psyche wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can listen to all episodes of Killer Psyche one week early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.

• 46:34Speaker 02

  Hi, I'm Kenya Barris.

• 46:36Speaker 05

  And I'm Malcolm Gladwell. We're back for season two of our Audible original podcast, The Unusual Suspects.

• 46:41Speaker 02

  We're bringing you fresh, new conversations from guests like Anderson Paak, David Zedars, Ryan Howard, Richel, Amy Sheldon, and many more.

• 46:48Speaker 05

  Sign up for a free trial to Audible to listen to season two in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.

• 47:03Matt Forde?

  26th of May, 2010, Forward Operating Base, Iraq. Private Manning awakes. It's not clear whether it was offloading last night or finally getting some sleep, but this morning, things feel lighter, unburdened, better than they have in weeks. Now Manning's eyes open wide. The other bunks in the room are empty and neatly made. Shit! Manning squints at the clock. It's 10 a.m., late for work. I'm coming!

• 47:35Alice Levine?

  I've slept in for work before. You will be really shocked to hear, that's pretty scary, but sleeping in for work on a military base in Iraq, I feel like it's not just like, oh, what are you like? Get to your desk.

• 47:46Matt Forde?

  You can't turn up to the trenches with coffee going, I'm so sorry, like the traffic. The chenox this morning, am I right?

• 47:53Alice Levine?

  Get this impression.

• 47:54Matt Forde?

  It's devastating. I can't believe you cycled to Basra. What is the matter with you?

• 48:01Matt Forde?

  The door bursts open and a senior officer marches in, his face burning with anger. Manning jumps down from the bunk. Sir, I was just, um... Standing beside the senior officer are soldiers with Glocks and M9s in their arms. Manning looks at their freshly shined shoes, so out of place in the dusty desert. Private Manning, you are under arrest on suspicion of unauthorized disclosure of classified information. It takes a few seconds for what's happening to sink in. More officers enter the room. One grabs a phone, another slaps a pair of cold steel cuffs across Manning's wrists. Yanked up, Manning is marched outside and bundled into a truck. Wh- where am I going?

• 48:47Matt Forde?

  The guard doesn't answer. Instead, everything goes black as a hood is thrown over Manning's head. And then, the guard's reply comes through loud and clear. Hell.

• 49:05Matt Forde?

  Six hours later. European Parliament, Brussels.

• 49:10Matt Forde?

  Julian Assange finishes addressing the press pack. And as I explained inside this building, our quest to make all information free goes on. In a matter of days, we intend to release thousands more classified documents which will shine a light on what's really going on in Iraq. Julian, Julian, Mr Assange, Mr Assange. Julian pushes through the crowd, Daniel close behind. How do you feel about the arrest of US Army intelligence analyst Private Manning for the theft of classified files which it's claimed were sent to WikiLeaks? Julian stops in his tracks. He steals a glance at Daniel, whose face drains of colour. He quickly regroups.

• 49:52Matt Forde?

  Uh, we don't know. We don't know who our sources are. I've never heard that name before.

• 50:00Matt Forde?

  Ten minutes later, Julian turns on CNN in his hotel room. Daniel paces anxiously at the end of the bed.

• 50:07Speaker 02

  The army intelligence analyst who's now in the custody of the US Navy in Kuwait is believed to have boasted of giving hundreds of thousands of classified State Department records to the whistleblowing site.

• 50:19Matt Forde?

  Julian stares in disbelief at Daniel. We need to dial down the press, keep a low profile for a while. Publishing this puts private Manning at risk. Julian takes a beer from the minibar, hands it to Daniel. Chill out. Whatever's been said, there's nothing to link these leaks directly to us. Daniel slams down the beer. I'm not talking about us, I'm talking about the leaker. We can't give the US a bigger stick to beat Manning with.

• 50:49Alice Levine?

  This is such a dereliction of care, isn't it? Because if this was a source with traditional media, you would have a duty of care to them, to protect them, to keep them anonymous, and that's taken extremely seriously. Daniel's the only voice of reason here, Julian doesn't even seem to care.

• 51:03Matt Forde?

  This goes to the heart of why Julian Assange is such a controversial character, because on the one hand, he's selling himself as this relentless pursuer of truth, someone doing the right thing by keeping power in check, and yet, with his own power, he's not using it responsibly. Julian knows Daniel has a point. If they wait, try to make it look like the data could have come from a different source, the US government could go easier on Manning. All right, sit on what we have, for now. Julian waits for Daniel to leave. Then, he takes out his laptop and keys in a long passcode that gives him access to the thousands of files Manning sent.

• 51:42Alice Levine?

  I'd like a bit of, you know, two-step authentication there, or a little bit of encryption. One password is not really doing it for me, even though he's added loads of numbers on the end like you do when you have to update it.

• 51:52Matt Forde?

  Yes, and all the Os to zeros, and he's stuck an exclamation mark on the end.

• 51:57Alice Levine?

  I actually feel really exposed. How do you know my password?

• 52:01Matt Forde?

  Julian can't shake the promise he made to their sources. That leaking these would matter, would change things. He's yanked from his thoughts by his ringing mobile. He answers distractedly. Mr Assange, I'm Nick Davies from The Guardian newspaper in London. We wondered if you'd consider publishing the rest of the leaked documents you've spoken about in collaboration with us.

• 52:26Matt Forde?

  Without thinking, Julian comes back with the standard response. I'm sorry, Nick. We don't work with the mainstream media. There's a pause. Then the voice goes on. What I'm suggesting would take the truth about the war on terror to every corner of the globe. We dominate the news agenda, make WikiLeaks a household name. At least hear what I have to offer. Julian looks back at the files conflicted. Thinks about Manning. Could be in a black site somewhere, being tortured. If he lays low, it might make things better.

• 53:00Matt Forde?

  But then Manning wants this information out there. For all the world to see. The truth. And WikiLeaks is the truth. He hears Nick Davies breathing down the other end of the line. Makes a decision. Alright, Nick. I'm listening.

• 53:24Speaker 05

  You stepped out for your morning jog. Except it's not your usual morning jog. You started listening to an epic sci-fi book on Audible. Thirty chapters later, you've accidentally run a half marathon. You've lost track of how far you've run, somewhere just past the city limits. You can't stop, you have to find out what happens next. Then it's over. The universe seems bigger. You feel different. You feel... Like you have no idea where you are. Audible. Stories that speak to you.

• 53:58Speaker 03

  Fish are back for a whole lot of wonderfully whimsical fun. What happens when you switch bodies with your best friend? Discover a caveman frozen in ice? Or make an alien so angry he threatens to destroy the planet? Find out in season two of the Cat in the Hat podcast. The Cat and Fish are travelling the world in the great catastrophic cacophony cruiser, meeting genies, clown professors, cave trolls and extraordinary characters along the way. With clever wordplay, imaginative rhymes, original songs and stories celebrating curiosity, empathy and creative problem solving, every adventure brings something new to discover. It's a world of wonderful words, big imaginations and plenty of heart for the whole family.

• 54:43Speaker 03

  Listen to the Cat in the Hat podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all 20 episodes early and ad-free right now.

• 54:58Matt Forde?

  From Wondery and Samistat Audio, this is the first episode in our series, Julian Assange.

• 55:04Alice Levine?

  A quick note about our dialogue. In most cases, we can't know exactly what was said, but all our dramatizations are based on historical research.

• 55:11Matt Forde?

  If you'd like to know more about this story, you can read Julian Assange: The Unauthorized Autobiography by Andrew Hagan and Julian Assange. Inside WikiLeaks: My Time with Julian Assange at the World's Most Dangerous Website by Daniel Domscheitberg. Readme文文，A Memoir by Chelsea Manning. No Secrets: A New Yorker Essay by Rafi Kachadorian. And you can watch We Steal Secrets: The Story of WikiLeaks, a documentary by Alex Gibney on Amazon Prime.

• 55:38Alice Levine?

  And remember, if you want to get in touch with us with comments, suggestions, ideas for scandals, complaints about Matt, etc., then you can email us at [email protected]. British Scandal is hosted by me, Alice Levine.

• 55:50Matt Forde?

  And me, Matt Ford.

• 55:51Alice Levine?

  Written by Wendy Granditer. Additional writing by Alice Levine and Matt Ford. Our story editor is James Maniac. Sound design by Rich Evans. For Samistat, our producer is Chica Ayers. Our assistant producer is Redsey Bernard. Our senior producers are Joe Sykes and Dasha Lisitzina. For Wondery, our series producer is Theodora Leludis and our managing producer is Rachel Sibley. Executive producers for Wondery are Estelle Doyle, Chris Bourne, Morgan Jones and Marshall Louie.

• 56:31Speaker 05

  In the summer of 1881, US Army Lieutenant Adolphus Greeley and 24 other men embarked on an ambitious scientific mission to the northernmost reaches of the Arctic. But despite several triumphs of discovery, the men would soon face tragedy. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of the podcast American History Tellers. We take you to the events, times, and people that shaped America and Americans, our values, our struggles, and our dreams. In our latest series, after Adolphus Greeley and his men arrive at their destination, more than 1,000 miles above the Arctic Circle, they get to work collecting scientific data and exploring the frigid landscape. But when resupply ships fail to reach them two summers in a row, they're forced to set out on a desperate

• 57:14Speaker 05

  search for rescue, and not all of them will make it home. Follow American History Tellers wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all episodes of American History Tellers Greeley Arctic Expedition early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.

• 57:33Speaker 02

  Hi, I'm Kenya Paris.

• 57:34Speaker 05

  And I'm Malcolm Gladwell. We're back for season two of our Audible original podcast, The Unusual Suspects.

• 57:40Speaker 02

  We'll sit down with extraordinary guests from the worlds of art, film, literature, comedy, and wellness to hear from their unexpected stories of success.

• 57:47Speaker 05

  And who do we have this season? Well, we'll talk with Grammy-winning artist Anderson Paak, athlete Rich Roll, portrait artist Amy Sherald, Oscar-winning director Ron Howard, legendary writer David Sedaris, and many more. These conversations are more intimate than last season, wouldn't you say?

• 58:04Speaker 02

  I would. Listen to season one of The Unusual Suspects wherever you get your podcasts, and sign up for a free trial Audible to listen to season two in the Audible app or by subscribing to Apple Podcasts.