Pod Insights British Scandal The Warring Queens | The Last Gasp | 3 About this episode Mary arrives in England expecting rescue, but instead finds herself trapped under her cousin Elizabeth’s watch. As the years drag on, plots swirl, loyalties shift, and even her own son turns against her. Backed into a corner, Mary makes one final, desperate gamble to reclaim her crown… with consequences that will prove fatal.
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0:00 Alice Levine? Audible subscribers can listen to all episodes of British Scandal ad-free right now. Join Audible today by downloading the Audible app. Matt, the studio door seems to be locked.
0:10 Matt Forde? Ah, yes, I should have said, there's no procedure now. You have to give a password. You only get three guesses, so you've got to get it right in those three. I think you will. If you get it wrong, you're not allowed in and you do get casted away to prison.
0:21 Alice Levine? Sorry, what? I don't know, I didn't receive any passwords. Why would I get put in prison? This is just ridiculous.
0:26 Matt Forde? It's just management brought it in. It's all right, you get it. Look, it's something to do with the show. Just think about the things we joke about.
0:33 Alice Levine? Okay, okay, okay. Um, Ham, sandwiches.
0:37 Matt Forde? Eh eh, no.
0:38 Alice Levine? It's literally the only injury we do. Um, oh, oh, Tonkin.
0:42 Matt Forde? Eh eh, no.
0:44 Alice Levine? So, wait, is it like one of the characters we always do?
0:48 Matt Forde? It might be.
0:49 Alice Levine? Oh, yeah, yeah, okay, okay, okay. Is it a Cockney paper boy?
0:52 Matt Forde? No.
0:53 Alice Levine? Matt, what? You said it was really easy.
0:56 Matt Forde? Sorry, mate. Carter off!
0:58 Alice Levine? Matt, no, this is ridiculous. Matt, defend my name!
1:02 Matt Forde? Sorry, mate. Pleasure working with you. That's a shame. Actually, I think she got it right. It was Tonkin. It's too late now. Oh, well. I'll remember for when producer Chica gets in.
1:18 Matt Forde? September 1586, Chartley Manor, Staffordshire. Mary's hand moves slowly across the paper on her desk. Her eyes strain as her quill scratches out each dot, loop and crossed line, ignoring the pain in her swollen knuckles. The symbols must be exact. There can be no misrepresentation of this note's decree.
1:43 Matt Forde? Her secretary appears at her shoulder. Mary pauses and looks into his anxious eyes. Your Majesty, I beg you, if we were to wait even a week, until we can be more certain the channel to Babington is secure... Mary glances at the grey walls, riddled with mould, at the tattered tapestry hanging above her bed, this English prison dressed in the rags of royalty. She looks back to her arthritic fingers, withered beyond their 43 years. I have waited long enough. Mary looks back down at the note, writes the last few symbols, then pulls her embroidery frame towards her, the vessel that will hide her command.
2:26 Matt Forde? She starts to carefully unpick the panel of deep blue silk. When she hears the door to her chamber creak open.
2:34 Alice Levine? This is what I love about this era of history. The secret pouches, the pockets, the ways of passing messages. I just love the clandestine stuff.
2:43 Matt Forde? How angry can you really be that you've been betrayed by such a lovely silk pouch?
2:48 Alice Levine? A velvet pouch, off with the head.
2:50 Matt Forde? You joke. She was a prime suspect in a lot of plots against Elizabeth. All of her messages were surveilled and monitored, so she became highly adept at hiding messages. She would wedge them in the embroidery.
3:00 Alice Levine? So good.
3:01 Matt Forde? It's the upper-class version of hiding classese drugs in the seams of Adidas tracksuit bottoms and getting them into catégorie prisons.
3:10 Alice Levine? It 100% is. There's never been a better analogy, yes.
3:16 Matt Forde? Mary glances up at the English guard filling the doorway, freezes. Breakfast is prepared, Your Majesty. Mary takes a long breath.
3:28 Matt Forde? It will have to wait. I wish to finish this first. A gift for the Duchess of Guise.
3:36 Matt Forde? Mary risks a glance at the guard. She's certain she sees doubt in his eyes, suspicion. For the first time, she wonders if her secretary is right to be worried. She lowers her eyes and threads the needle through. She counts three stitches, four. Don't be long.
3:56 Matt Forde? Mary exhales, then nods to her secretary. She takes the embroidery from the frame and lays it out flat on the desk. Mary pulls the note from the drawer and slips it within the lining. Checking it's secure, she drives her needle through the fabric, ensuring every stitch is small, tight. Her swollen joints burn with every push, but Mary grits her teeth, keeps going.
4:22 Matt Forde? Minutes later, Mary hands the cloth to her secretary along with a bundle of letters. She watches him take them with both hands, as if they might detonate. I will pray for you, Your Majesty.
4:36 Matt Forde? His voice cracks on the last word. Mary studies him, then places her hand on his. And I for you. Mary watches the door close behind him, then crosses to the window.
4:50 Matt Forde? Her breath fogs the cold glass as she sees him cross the yard and hand the bundle to a waiting delivery boy. The boy mounts his horse, when... Wait! Mary grips the windowsill as her eyes move to a guard approaching them. She watches him take the bundle as her secretary stands very still. Mary feels her shoulders relax as the guard takes the letters and rips them open. She hoped they would provide such a diversion.
5:18 Matt Forde? But then she sees him study the embroidered cloth, hold it up to the light.
5:24 Matt Forde? There's a long pause before he turns and looks directly up at the window, at Mary. She can't move, can't breathe. Her knuckles whiten as her nails dig against the stone sill. Time seems to slow.
5:43 Matt Forde? Because stitched into the silk is Elizabeth's death warrant. And should the thread be pulled, it won't be her cousin's head that will find the block. It will be Mary's own.
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7:06 Matt Forde? I'm Matt Ford.
7:07 Alice Levine? And I'm Alice Levine.
7:09 Matt Forde? And this is British Scandal, an Audible original.
7:22 Matt Forde? So Alice, thinking about Mary, do you think she's got a good taste in men or a bad taste in men?
7:27 Alice Levine? I genuinely think we've never had a woman on British Scandal who's had good taste in men. So maybe we should do one of those one time as a scandal. But when it comes to Mary, so first she marries Darnley, who's the cock chick of the day. All of that to say, a sex-crazed, sort of power-hungry madman who wanted to have more control than her.
7:47 Matt Forde? Yeah, he was like a horny sex gimp.
7:50 Alice Levine? As you always say, yep, exactly. And then she thought, no, no, I need protection. So what I'll do is I think I'll marry the man that tried to blow up my first husband. So Lord Bothwell, he rocks up. And she's like, you're the man for me. Turns out, though, he's also very power-hungry, like all of the men ever in history. And so that's sort of doomed as well.
8:10 Matt Forde? Yes, he is very ambitious.
8:12 Alice Levine? You gotta give him that.
8:13 Matt Forde? Yeah, let's not forget that. But now it seems like she's surrounded by enemies with no one to protect her. So what do you think's gonna happen next?
8:20 Alice Levine? She'd thrown on some boys' clothes, hadn't she? Looking very chic, looking very Diane Keaton, and was fleeing to England to now seek protection from her cousin Elizabeth, but she had to leave her baby son behind in Scotland. So against my better judgement, I think that Elizabeth is going to become best chums with her and they will all rule together in harmony forever. IDST, if destroyed, still true.
8:43 Matt Forde? Well, we're about to find out. This is episode three, The Last Gasp.
8:48 Alice Levine? Forever.
8:51 Matt Forde? Eighteen years earlier, May 1568, Cumberland coast, England. Mary slowly blinks her eyes open. The smell of saltwater overwhelms her senses. Then the cold hits. She lurches upright, wraps her arms tight around her. The shoreline stretches empty. Below her, a battered fisherman's boat washed up on the shore. Her trembling hand moves to her scalp, bare, cold. As memories rush back in pieces, whispered plans, her escape from Bothwell, the boat rolling through black water.
9:32 Matt Forde? Mary looks around at the unfamiliar rocks. She tries to force her body up, but as she does, a large shadow falls across her. Mary slowly lifts her eyes, feels a jolt of terror. Above her stands a heavyset man, two armed guards at his shoulders. Your Majesty. Mary blinks slowly.
9:57 Matt Forde? She moves her hand to the dagger concealed in her belt. To her dismay, it's gone. She feels a flicker of panic. The man bows. I am the governor of Cumberland. My men will see you somewhere more befitting your status. Your Majesty.
10:21 Matt Forde? Relief floods through Mary's veins. She's made it to England. Her servants must have travelled ahead and got word to her cousin.
10:30 Alice Levine? Okay, so she's been through, I think it's fair to say, in modern parlance, quite the trauma. She's feeling fairly triggered by the fact that everybody wants her dead. But now she's thinking, safe ground.
10:42 Matt Forde? Yes, she thinks, I've managed to get myself to England. Elizabeth doesn't want monarchs getting killed, so the plan is working. I'm safe.
10:54 Matt Forde? She allows the governor to help her to her feet and guide her up to the shingle, where she's lifted onto a horse. A guard settles in behind her, his arms either side of her weak body, holding the reins. Mary fights to stay awake as her horse canters along the coastal path.
11:12 Matt Forde? But her eyelids grow heavy. She slips in and out of consciousness as visions fill her mind.
11:20 Matt Forde? Being led into the Hampton Court receiving room, Elizabeth rising to meet her.
11:28 Matt Forde? Mary wakes with a jolt. She sits up straight in the saddle as she takes in the thick walls that rise on every side. The gatehouse, the cobbled yard. Where are we? Carlyle Castle, Your Majesty. Mary's head snaps back as she hears the heavy gates closing behind her.
11:50 Matt Forde? She stares at the battlements, the guards. I don't understand. My cousin, she... We are yet to receive word regarding Her Majesty's wishes. Something cold settles in Mary's chest. She would not wish for me to be treated like some prisoner. I came here for her protection. I need to see my son. She sees the governor's face cloud. I'm afraid the rebels claimed your crown in your absence. They have your son.
12:29 Alice Levine? Oh, God. Okay, so is Bothwell, one-time confidant, now-time terrible husband, is he on the throne?
12:37 Matt Forde? No, so Bothwell legged it to Scandinavia where he's captured by the Danes. The person on the throne is her son James, who is one years old and in charge of all of Scotland.
12:48 Alice Levine? He would be the youngest person on Diary of a CEO.
12:51 Matt Forde? And that would be breast milk, not Huel.
12:54 Alice Levine? Huel made with breast milk? Breast is best, but Huel is better. This is probably a stupid question, but I imagine that he has some backup.
13:01 Matt Forde? Yes, he's surrounded by Protestant rebels. I mean, imagine sucking up to a one-year-old. A court is sad enough as it is.
13:10 Matt Forde? Mary's head spins. James is an infant. He's defenseless. She grabs the governor's arm. No! They must be stopped. Your Majesty, I must insist. Mary's hand falls away and reaches for the gold locket that hangs around her neck. She opens it and stares at the tiny portrait of James that looks back at her, her despair turning to determination. Take me inside now. I must have paper and ink. Mary will appeal to Elizabeth directly, cousin to cousin, queen to queen.
13:49 Matt Forde? She will not rest until they are face to face, working to win back her crown and her son, together.
14:03 Matt Forde? A few days later, May 1568, Hampton Court. Elizabeth holds out her arms as her ladies fasten her travelling cloak. She tucks Mary's letter into her pocket and crosses to the window, looks down at the luggage being loaded onto carts. William Cecil strides into the room, his hair damp with sweat. Your Majesty, I must insist that you reconsider this fool's errand.
14:32 Alice Levine? Oh, hi Cecil. It's been a while.
14:33 Matt Forde? Yes, not seen him for a bit. Obviously Elizabeth's closest adviser, highly influential on her throughout her reign, and crucially, a staunch Protestant. He believes that Catholics are evil, and he hates Mary.
14:50 Matt Forde? Elizabeth spins round and cuts him off sharply. I never asked for your opinion in this matter, Lord Cecil. I must give it regardless. Elizabeth feels her jaw clench, then relaxes slightly. Ten years as her adviser, he has never steered her wrong. She waves her ladies from the room. Speak then. Your Majesty, I realise your instinct as a most benevolent queen is to help Mary, but she is a Catholic monarch with Stuart blood. Elizabeth pulls out Mary's letter, holds it up. She is a refugee, alone, begging for help in her darkest hour. No, Your Majesty, she is a papist torch near a powder keg that threatens your rule.
15:35 Matt Forde? Elizabeth snaps back. Mary has lost her crown. She has been forced to abandon her son. Must we assume conspiracy immediately? If you meet her, you don't show mercy. You acknowledge her as your equal. To every Catholic court in Europe, she becomes your successor in waiting.
16:01 Matt Forde? Elizabeth moves to the fireplace and picks up the iron poker, prods the coals. She hears Cecil speak again, his tone low but urgent. This is a woman who married Lord Darnley against your express wishes. Then married Bothwell, the man who murdered him.
16:19 Matt Forde? That has not been proved. Impulse alone makes her deadly. Elizabeth looks away from the fire, holds Cecil's gaze. I simply ask you delay seeing her until we understand exactly who helped her come here. What their motives are.
16:37 Matt Forde? Elizabeth sighs. Every fibre in her body tells her to go to Mary. But if Cecil is right, the risk to her throne, to her life, is too great to ignore. Elizabeth has an impossible decision to make. Her actions will either make Mary a rival or a martyr. She turns and takes in Cecil's steely gaze as he steps forward. Which will it be, Your Majesty? Your cousin or your crown?
17:10 Matt Forde? Four months later, Carlisle Castle. Mary sits poker straight as her ladies flutter around her. She holds her hand mirror up, wincing at the sight of her chin-length curls. If only it would grow fester. I wished it to be perfect for my cousin's arrival.
17:29 Alice Levine? Every woman has been there where you've had a bob cut and you're like, oh my god, when will it grow? It's way too short. And then you Google, how fast does hair grow? You're like, okay, so actually by Christmas it might be okay.
17:41 Matt Forde? And I think it's really important that we shine a light on this as a show. Because I've got to say, as a man, and I feel like I'm an ally, I had no idea.
17:49 Alice Levine? Yeah, bob syndrome.
17:50 Matt Forde? If you are suffering from bob syndrome, get in touch.
17:55 Matt Forde? Mary feels she's waited a lifetime for this meeting. In that time, Bothwell has been captured and imprisoned by the rebels, while James remains in their hands. She clutches the gold locket around her neck. She cannot, will not contemplate the fate of her son James, just two years old, being passed from one rebel hand to another. At least being given such an obliging entourage has reassured her of Elizabeth's good intentions. Now she expects her cousin to arrive with firm plans to return her to Scotland, with an army befitting of her needs and status. Mary feels giddy as she rises. She smooths her skirts, squares her shoulders,
18:38 Matt Forde? but then blinks in confusion as a lean man with a neatly trimmed beard enters, two guards close behind. She waits for Elizabeth. No one else appears. The man bows. Your Majesty, I am William Cecil, Lord High Treasurer and Secretary of... Mary recognises the name immediately. She cuts him off. Forgive me, Lord Cecil, but I wish only to speak with my cousin. She will not be coming, Your Majesty. She has sent me on her behalf. A knot tightens in Mary's stomach. But we arranged...
19:22 Matt Forde? Letters have come to light, written in your hand, to Lord Bothwell. Mary freezes. Her pulse hammers. She spits. Bothwell. They make clear that you were intimate before Lord Darnley's death, that you were in fact party to planning Darnley's murder. That... that... that is a lie. The letters bear your seal, Your Majesty.
19:55 Alice Levine? Okay, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait. Mary had a crush on Bothwell, but we know that she was faithful to Darnley. I mean, she was kind of wanting to get rid of him. She hoped that nature would take its course and syphilis would off him. But she didn't cheat.
20:08 Matt Forde? Exactly. So these letters are forged and someone has forged her seal, which was the two-step verification of its day.
20:14 Alice Levine? Okay, but why? Why have they bothered to do this?
20:17 Matt Forde? So Cecil is the one who's forged the letters because he hates Catholics and this means that Elizabeth will then arrest Mary.
20:26 Matt Forde? Mary shakes her head. Her voice drops to a whisper. I did not, I would not. Mary looks into Cecil's eyes, sees cold satisfaction. She steps forward, snatches at the papers. Let me see those. But Cecil pulls them from her reach. Her Majesty has decided. Mary darkens. Her Majesty or you? Cecil ignores her. Her Majesty has decided, in her mercy, that you will be spared the humiliation of a trial. But for her own security, she will not be meeting with you. You will remain here, attended and secure. Imprisoned?
21:09 Matt Forde? Mary stays on him, her blood boiling. Until such time that Her Majesty feels it prudent to release you. She will ensure the new ruling lords in Scotland keep your son safe. Adrenaline surges through Mary. She lunges at Cecil. Those letters are forgeries written by your men. The guards are on Mary instantly, pulling her back as she thrashes. Fury cracks her voice. You must release me, I am queen. Mary can only watch as Cecil turns and the door slams behind him. The guards release her and she falls to her knees on the cold stone floor. She stays there, catching her breath before pressing her palms to the floor,
21:53 Matt Forde? forcing herself upright. Mary will not let Cecil win. She will not miss watching James grow up. This castle may hold her, but it will not break her. She will find a way back to her son, with or without Elizabeth's help.
22:17 Matt Forde? Fifteen years later, Holyrood, Edinburgh.
22:22 Matt Forde? Sixteen-year-old James Stewart keeps his bow drawn. His eyes are trained on the hind thirty yards ahead, grazing at the edge of the tree line. He draws the string to his cheek. James hesitates as a calf steps out of the trees and noses its mother's flank, small and uncertain. The whisper of his hunting companion cuts through his thoughts. You have a clear shot, Your Majesty. James tells himself to release the arrow, but he hesitates. James flinches as his companion's arrow punctures the hind in its eye, and it drops dead on the ground.
23:02 Alice Levine? In its eye? Okay, that is not right. Very undignified.
23:06 Matt Forde? Very 1066, isn't it?
23:07 Alice Levine? Very 1066.
23:11 Alice Levine? Oh my god, that is such a nerdy joke. I love it.
23:18 Matt Forde? He watches the calf tremble, then dart into the trees alone. Forgive me, Your Majesty. It was too simple a kelter mess. James swears under his breath. He came out here to forget himself for an hour, to be a boy, not a king. He turns to see his secretary approaching on horseback, a disapproving look on his face. Your Majesty, forgive the disturbance, but the French ambassador wishes to see you. He says it's urgent. James's heart sinks. Dealing with news of their troublesome Catholic neighbours is the last thing he needs.
23:58 Alice Levine? He's essentially been radicalised, hasn't he? I mean, if you get to the throne, sub-two-years-old, then you are kind of indoctrinated from birth, and there's no other source of balance. Like, you're not going to hear anything from anywhere else, are you, apart from your advisers?
24:15 Matt Forde? No, and it's really important to remember that Protestant and Catholic back then were such a huge divide. This was a total ideological hatred of each other.
24:25 Matt Forde? Twenty minutes later, he enters the cold council chamber, where a portly man bows. Your Majesty, it is an honour to meet you at last. The ambassador glances over his shoulder furtively, his voice dropping. I come on behalf of your mother.
24:45 Matt Forde? James turns, surprised. He feels a bitter taste hit the back of his throat. I have no wish to hear of her, the Pope's whore.
24:55 Matt Forde? His mother made her loyalties clear when she abandoned him as an infant. She's never even tried to contact him. She fears the many letters she wrote you as a child may not have made it past your Protestant guardians. Letters?
25:13 Matt Forde? He watches the ambassador produce a scroll. Now that you are king, she asks that you read this. Despite himself, James reaches out and takes it. He pauses for a moment before breaking the seal with a trembling hand. My darling son, now you are of age and have taken Scotland's throne. You must hear the truth. James feels his mouth go dry. I have been imprisoned for fifteen years under false charges. You will have been raised to believe your father died on my orders, but that is a cruel deception. James pulls his eyes away. These are lies. They must be. He sees the French ambassador gently shake his head.
25:59 Matt Forde? She loves you, Your Majesty. She always has. James wants to screw up the page, but forces his eyes back on the letter, keeps reading. I have fought to return to you, but I have been kept hostage. His heart hammers as he reads about castles, no trial, years of isolation. He silently sets the paper down.
26:24 Matt Forde? The ambassador pushes a small gold locket towards him. Her Majesty also asked me to deliver this. James opens the gold locket. A lump forms in his throat as he takes in two miniature portraits. One of his own cherubic face as a baby, and one of a beautiful woman with auburn hair and dark eyes. James feels his eyes sting as he turns back to the ambassador.
26:50 Alice Levine? Your whole world would come crumbling down. He didn't know he was loved. He thought he was abandoned by his mother. He's been told she's a murderous lunatic and the Pope's horse, whatever that means. So, nothing that he's been told, nothing that he believes tallies with what he's reading here.
27:07 Matt Forde? This is the human equivalent of when a fox is raised by dogs. They think I'm a dog. All I can see is dogs. I basically look the same and I've started behaving like one. And then you're like, what? I'm a fox?
27:22 Alice Levine? Is this, is this a common occurrence? Do you see this a lot in your algorithm?
27:26 Matt Forde? That's what my Instagram reels are, is animals and pizza.
27:33 Matt Forde? She wrote other letters. Every week for 15 years, Your Majesty. James feels a wave of nausea as he picks up the letter again. Could everything he thought he knew really be a lie? He looks at her neat script, Mary's final lines. A request for him to bring her back to Scotland so that they can co-rule. Send word to my mother. Tell her I want to meet. If what he's reading is true, it's not Mary who abandoned him, but he who has abandoned her. And if that is the case, it's time to bring his mother home.
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30:02 Matt Forde? Six months later, the banquet hall, Hampton Court Palace. William Cecil bows slowly as James Stuart is shown in. Your Majesty, welcome to Hampton Court. I trust your ride from Edinburgh was comfortable? Well enough, Lord Cecil. Cecil studies the boy, notes the king's eyes widening at the room's painted ceiling and vast windows, then at the roasted boar at the center of the long banquet table. Cecil suppresses a smile. He must tread carefully if he's to do what he promised Elizabeth. Bring James under their control and keep Mary neutralized.
30:43 Alice Levine? So have they just put on a lovely spread because the king's coming?
30:46 Matt Forde? Really good point, because obviously Cecil is a highly manipulative man who hates Catholics. We cannot stress that enough. And Scotland's a lot poorer than England, so James won't be used to this. So Cecil is deliberately showing an element of largesse to dazzle the young king.
31:03 Matt Forde? He gestures to James to sit, lowers himself into the chair opposite. Her Majesty regrets that she couldn't attend. She speaks of you often and... He's thrown when James cuts in. My lord, while I appreciate the effort made, I wish only to discuss my mother's release. Cecil bristles, thrown by the boy's assertiveness. He takes a sip of his claret. Your queen knows my wish, to bring my mother back to Scotland so that we can rule jointly. Cecil notes James's trembling hands as he lifts a chunk of bread. Cecil smirks. Her Majesty has considered your request carefully, but she is in a difficult position. Mary's release could... Cecil pauses.
31:48 Matt Forde? ...stir up religious dissent in both our countries. He smiles, more convivial now. I suspect you have as little appetite for a Catholic uprising as the Queen. Cecil raises his palms before James can reply. Therefore, she wishes you to consider a different proposal. In return for leaving Mary in our care, Her Majesty offers a generous annual pension. Cecil pushes a document across the table. He watches James blink in confusion at the figure written on it in thick black ink. Four thousand pounds? A year?
32:28 Alice Levine? Do not have your head turned, son, but actually, you know what I'm gonna ask? What is it in today's money, Matt?
32:34 Matt Forde? In today's money, Alice, that is 1.5 million pounds a year.
32:37 Alice Levine? Okay, do consider that, because loads of people don't get on with their mums or see them, and they're not getting anything, so, and you've never seen her anyway, so you don't even know if you get on. Worth considering, worth considering.
32:46 Matt Forde? Would you betray your mother for 1.5 million pounds a year?
32:49 Alice Levine? What even let you finish? Where do I sign?
32:55 Matt Forde? Cecil knows the boy could buy a fleet of ships, the finest properties in Scotland. But to his shock, James pushes the papers away. I cannot and will not be bought. You misunderstand, Your Majesty. This is not a bribe, merely a payment befitting your future status. If you read further... Cecil nods back at the document. Her Majesty wishes to name you formally as her successor.
33:26 Matt Forde? Cecil watches James stare at the words 'disbelieving'. He suppresses a smile as James slowly looks up. England! Scotland and England, united under one Protestant crown, yours, in time.
33:43 Alice Levine? Wow, this is a huge offer. They are literally throwing everything at it. Two nations, load of money, don't worry about it.
33:49 Matt Forde? Well, that's it, and it is the fate of nations, because James is exceptionally dangerous at this point. If he decides to side with his mother, then what you've got is a Catholic monarchy in Scotland, a load of other Catholic countries in Europe, England is then a Protestant outlier, completely surrounded, and James could be used as a pawn in a European war, and that is not in England's interests. So this is a big financial offer, but it's effectively to secure England's future. England's fate as a country effectively relies on this deal.
34:23 Matt Forde? Cecil watches James stand and walk to the window, and stare out across the spectacular gardens. Would you really pass up such an offer, out of loyalty to a mother you know only by name? Cecil walks slowly over to James, adopts a gentle tone. Your mother fought her whole life for what Her Majesty is offering. She would understand the need to do this. He moves his eyes back to James, who looks back at him, his face etched with doubt. Cecil stays on him. Scotland and England, Your Majesty. Think what that would mean. Cecil can see the conflict in James's eyes.
35:05 Matt Forde? He knows that to push any further could shatter the fragile inroads he has made. All he can do is wait, and hope that Scotland's young king chooses the right queen.
35:23 Matt Forde? December 1584, Chartley Castle, Staffordshire. Mary shuffles towards the entrance hall, her pulse quickening as she takes in the familiar frame of her secretary in the doorway.
35:37 Matt Forde? A guard blocks her way. You've been instructed to remain inside, Your Majesty. Jaw hardening, Mary retreats into the study, her secretary following. He closes the door and hands her a letter. Mary's heart soars at the sight of James's seal. She ignores the pain shooting through her arthritic fingers as she fumbles to break the wax. Finally, a letter from her son being handed directly to her rather than snuck in secretly can only mean one thing: A deal with Elizabeth has been struck. They could be reunited within weeks, days even. She's spent countless years imagining his face, his eyes, his voice. She can't bear to think of the times she's lost with her son.
36:22 Matt Forde? Finally, this agony could be over. She unfurls the pages. Dearest Mother, I write with news I know you will find most welcome. Excitement courses through Mary's veins as she pictures herself on a throne beside James, both of them in royal robes. But as she reads on, her blood starts to chill.
36:47 Matt Forde? Her son does not speak of rescue. Instead, he talks of Scotland's long-term stability. How Elizabeth has offered to secure Scotland's future by making him her heir. I will honour you with the title of Queen Mother and always hold you in great affection.
37:08 Alice Levine? Wow, that is limp.
37:11 Matt Forde? When I can, I'll think of you.
37:13 Alice Levine? When time permits.
37:14 Matt Forde? Isn't that the greatest love of all?
37:18 Matt Forde? She grips the edge of the letter as she reads on in horror. But for the sake of the country we both love, I can do no more. Mary drops the letter, sits still for a moment as she feels the contents of her stomach rise up to her throat. She lurches to her feet, makes it to the corner basin just in time. Her secretary rushes in. Your Majesty. Mary clutches the basin. She has done this. Was it not enough to take my freedom from me? Now my son? Mary shakes her head over and over. She spent seventeen years rotting in English castles. Her movements increasingly restricted, her correspondence monitored.
38:02 Matt Forde? Yet she's refused to endorse every plot to remove Elizabeth she's been told of. Always hopeful that in time, the Queen, her own blood, would see the error of her ways. But now, looking around this shabby room, she realises she was wrong. She turns to her secretary, her pale cheeks flushing pink as anger replaces despair. Draw up a list, every Catholic contact we have in Europe, every sympathizer who has ever sought my blessing. Your Majesty, the penalty for... I do not care. Mary picks up James's letter and holds it over a nearby candle, watches it burn.
38:49 Matt Forde? She will not allow this ungodly deal to be written into law, robbing her of what's rightfully hers. Instead, she will take Elizabeth's throne herself, by ordering her death.
39:10 Matt Forde? Eighteen months later, Burleigh House, Lincolnshire. Cecil moves slowly past a wall of pink roses. He examines each stem carefully, taking in the flower's heady aroma, completely at peace.
39:26 Matt Forde? Lord Cecil, please forgive the intrusion. Cecil sighs, his chief spymaster. He has no desire to talk business right now. He keeps his eyes trained on the earth beneath his feet. What is so urgent that you would bother me on the lord's day? Something I'm sure you will want to see. Cecil straightens up slowly. He brushes the dirt from his hands before taking a folded note from the spymaster. On it is a dense collection of crosses, zeros and dots positioned at different heights. Cecil moves his gaze back up to the spymaster. He looks like the cat who's got not only the cream, but the entire dairy.
40:10 Matt Forde? It's a cipher, my lord. Cecil grimaces, his patience wearing thin. Well, translate it, man. It's from a young Catholic named Anthony Babington. Wealthy, connected, and dangerous.
40:29 Matt Forde? Cecil feels his eye twitch. Babington is well-known to him. He and six others have devised a plan to seize Queen Elizabeth, backed by foreign military aid and Mary Stuart.
40:46 Matt Forde? Cecil feels the hairs on the back of his neck stiffen. You have letters between them both? Yes, in the one you hold, Babington lays out the plot. The implication is Mary will take the throne in Her Majesty's place.
41:03 Matt Forde? Cecil squeezes the paper in his fist. He eyeballs the spymaster. And you have Mary's letters of approval? She has yet to reply, my lord. Cecil's shoulders drop. We must wait for Mary to endorse the plot. My, my lord, that could take months. If the conspirators decide to move without her, Queen Elizabeth's life could be at risk.
41:34 Alice Levine? So to be clear, if you receive communications from a group with treacherous, treasonous aims, you're implicated?
41:45 Matt Forde? If you don't reply immediately.
41:47 Alice Levine? Stop. SMS, stop.
41:49 Matt Forde? Yeah.
41:51 Matt Forde? Cecil squeezes his eyes shut, listens to the bird song.
41:57 Matt Forde? He knows the risk, but he also knows the reward. Since the moment Elizabeth took England's throne, Cecil has wanted Mary snuffed out, while the Queen is always finding excuses to spare her. But an attempt on her life, ordered by Mary's own hand, will be impossible for Elizabeth to look away from. I will ensure the Queen is kept safe. Your men will await Mary's reply.
42:25 Matt Forde? Cecil walks back to the roses. He presses his finger against one of the thorns, wincers as it draws blood.
42:33 Matt Forde? Unfurling the letter, he draws a hangman's noose at the bottom.
42:38 Matt Forde? He will wait as long as it takes, if it means he will finally have Mary's head.
42:52 Matt Forde? Two months later, Chartley Manor, Staffordshire. Mary looks up from her needlework and stares through the window at the gently swaying trees. A small movement in the distance prompts her to lean forward, her heartbeat quickening. Realising it's the groundsman, she slumps back. It has been two weeks since Mary sent her reply to Babington endorsing his plan. Since then, she's been on tenterhooks, waiting for word of Elizabeth's death. She turns to the maid across the room. Have the stable boy bring me the horse. Mary sees the guards move to block the door. She glares. Did the physician not say I am in need of fresh air? You can ride me and me if you must.
43:36 Matt Forde? She watches them confer, then one nods. Mary forces herself from her chair. She hasn't been on horseback for years, but she needs a distraction.
43:51 Matt Forde? Thirty minutes later in the yard, Mary grips the pommel and plants her foot in the stirrup, then waits for a groom to boost her up. Her arms shake and her hips scream, but somehow she finds herself settling into the saddle. She exhales slowly as she takes the reins.
44:10 Matt Forde? Mary feels her chest loosen. She jolts the reins, quickening her pace from a trot to a gallop. The castle disappears behind the trees. The cold air bites. Mary feels alive again.
44:24 Matt Forde? But her stomach flips when she sees a column of riders on the horizon, moving fast towards her. The news she's been waiting for, Mary urges her horse to gather speed. Only when she gets close enough to see the lead horseman's grave expression, she realises something is very wrong. She pulls her horse to a stop. Your Majesty. Mary gasps as the men behind him pull out pistols and point them at her chest. I'm here to place you under arrest. She spots two male servants rushing from the castle. She shouts across. I have done nothing wrong. Draw your swords. But the man cuts in.
45:07 Matt Forde? We have a signed confession from the plot's leader to kill the Queen, and a letter in your own hand agreeing to the plan.
45:18 Alice Levine? Yeah, one thing's like, I could kill her, and another thing's like, I could kill her. All the best. Signed, Mary.
45:24 Matt Forde? Yes, the things you say out loud look very bad written down.
45:28 Alice Levine? She really has left it rather unambiguous, hasn't she? It's a real shame.
45:34 Matt Forde? Mary's grip on her horse's reins loosens, as an officer reaches up and grabs her arm. She feels her body go limp. Her knees hit the earth. I'm sure you're aware of the punishment for high trea-
45:50 Matt Forde? Mary slumps flat on the earth, hot tears running down her cheeks. For eighteen years, she's lived with the knowledge that if nothing else, she is safe.
46:01 Matt Forde? That her cousin would not, could not, destroy an anointed queen. But Mary has just given her a license to change her mind.
46:11 Matt Forde? She stares up into the sky, praying that Elizabeth's mercy is not spent.
46:18 Matt Forde? That her cousin may yet save her from certain death.
46:33 Speaker 06 Journalist Daphne Caruana Galizia spent her life exposing powerful people. Then, in 2017, she was killed in a car bombing. I'm Stephen Gray, and for the past nine years, I've been trying to find out who wanted her dead. That search took me to Malta through secret companies, organised crime, and eventually to one of the island's richest and most powerful men. Now, after years of waiting, his trial has finally happened. But when the verdict came in, the case took a turn that almost no one had expected. In a brand new update to the multi-award-winning podcast Who Killed Daphne? I'm returning to Malta to find out how we got there and where the search for the truth goes next. Listen to the new episode of Who Killed Daphne wherever you get your podcasts,
47:19 Speaker 06 and you can hear the full six-part investigation from the beginning, ad-free with Audible. Join Audible today by downloading the Audible app and by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.
47:33 Speaker 06 Journalist Tristan Redman goes where no son-in-law should ever go. Deep into his wife's family history, digging up the cold case of who murdered her great-grandmother. Because, I should mention, he thinks the murderer might actually be the
47:45 Matt Forde? Beloved family patriarch. For the best bingeable series like Ghost Story, listen to the Audible True Crime Podcast wherever you get your podcasts.
48:01 Matt Forde? Two months later, Whitehall Palace, London.
48:06 Matt Forde? Elizabeth's gaze fixes on the execution warrant in front of her, her cousin's name staring back. She picks up her quill, then sets it down again. She's barely slept since learning of Mary's betrayal, yet the idea of ordering her death remains repugnant. They are still bonded by blood, if nothing else.
48:28 Matt Forde? Hearing a small sigh, she snaps her head up to look at Cecil, who stands by her desk, his hands clasped tightly. You have something to say, Lord Cecil? Your Majesty, Mary's arrest is common knowledge. Every week we delay is another week her supporters have to organise. There are already pamphlets circulating in the city calling for your murder. Elizabeth holds her hand up. Whether regents live or die should be a matter for God alone. In any other case, yes, but... And have you considered how it will anger Spain? France? Elizabeth stays on Cecil, who doesn't answer.
49:11 Matt Forde? Elizabeth nods for her footman to enter. Your Majesty, the coaches are ready for the accession service.
49:21 Alice Levine? This is a rather dark contrast, so I'm presuming this is a sort of parade for her reign or something.
49:27 Matt Forde? Yes, it's a church service commemorating the anniversary of her accession to the throne. And she's going to go to that service while contemplating whether to have her cousin murdered.
49:35 Alice Levine? Find a girl who can do both.
49:38 Matt Forde? Elizabeth rises. We will return to this, Lord Cecil. But even as she says the words, Elizabeth has no plans to do so in any hurry.
49:49 Matt Forde? As her carriage travels through the city, Elizabeth tries to push Mary to the edge of her conscience. But passing Temple Bar, she's confronted by the sight of several blackened heads mounted on spikes. The remnants of the men who plotted against her. She takes in Cecil by her side, staring into their dead eyes with satisfaction. Elizabeth cannot accept this as her cousin's fate. She won't. The carriage rounds the corner. Elizabeth's heart lifts at a new sight.
50:22 Matt Forde? Bonfires blaze along the street, and crowds press forward on both sides. Elizabeth is moved to see a beaming child holding up a posse of flowers, a woman beside her weeping with joy. They love you, Your Majesty. For your strength, your devotion. Elizabeth waves at them, then settles back in her seat. Cecil is right. She has never let anything get in the way of her duty to these people, to her country.
50:53 Matt Forde? Her thoughts return to Mary, and Elizabeth knows she can defer no longer. She will do what is best for her crown, for England.
51:11 Matt Forde? Three months later, Fotheringay Castle, Northamptonshire. Mary stands beside the execution block, rosary beads wound tight around her fingers. Her lips move slowly, deliberately, in Catholic prayer.
51:29 Matt Forde? Domine, in manu tuas commendo spiritum mio.
51:36 Matt Forde? Mary fights her nerves to keep a slow, steady pace, desperate to buy time.
51:42 Matt Forde? Knowing how indecisive her cousin can be, a sliver of hope lingers that Elizabeth will change her mind and order a last-minute reprieve, even now. Mary's voice drops to a whisper as the final words of prayer leave her lips. Her heart sinks. She was wrong.
52:06 Matt Forde? Mary's head snaps up as Cecil strides through the hall, his cane striking the floor with each step. Relief surges through her. Elizabeth did not forsake her after all. But then, instead of approaching the dean, Cecil moves to where the other lords are sitting. Mary's chest tightens as Cecil takes his place beside them, turns to look directly at her and smiles. Mary holds his gaze, her knees weakening. Cecil is not here to save her. He is here to delight in her demise. There will be no rescue. Mary feels the bitter taste of adrenaline hit the back of her throat
52:50 Matt Forde? as defiance kicks in. She has one final card to play. She reaches up and unfastens her outer robe. As it falls to the floor, she hears a sharp intake of breath move around the hall like a wave. Mary stands in a petticoat and bodice of deep, vivid red, knowing every soul in the room recognizes its meaning. It is the colour of Catholic martyrdom. Mary moves her eyes back to Cecil. There are two things that cannot be taken from me, my royal blood and my religion, both of which I will keep even in death.
53:34 Alice Levine? This is incredible. This is her last act of rebellion, to have this steeliness at this point when she's been ground down over all these years, living in hope.
53:44 Matt Forde? Mary watches Cecil's smile falter then disappear. She exhales. Now she is ready. Mary kneels and rests her head against the block. She closes her eyes. She thinks of the men who married and betrayed her, of her son and the crown he will one day wear. A crown she no longer begrudges him. Then she thinks of Elizabeth, the cousin she never met. She thinks of the love that might have existed had things been different. It is the last thought Mary has, before she feels the blow of the axe on her neck.
54:28 Matt Forde? And no more thoughts exist at all.
54:42 Matt Forde? After Mary's defiant last stand, the English were so terrified of her becoming a martyr that they closed the ports, burned her belongings, and removed her heart and placed it under a guarded glass jar. Mary was then buried at Peterborough Cathedral, not far from Catherine of Aragon. Mary's cousin Elizabeth continued to rule until she died in 1603, having spent 44 years as England's monarch. She never married. After Elizabeth's death, Mary's son James inherited the English throne, uniting the crowns of England and Scotland for the first time. His rule finally fulfilled Mary's ambition of her bloodline ruling both kingdoms and coursing through the veins of all subsequent British monarchs.
55:27 Matt Forde? Nine years after he was crowned, James had Mary's body moved to Westminster Abbey and placed in a tomb right beside Elizabeth's. She remains there to this day, and it's widely agreed her tomb is the most elaborate and glamorous in the Abbey.
55:52 Matt Forde? From Audible Originals and Sami's That's Audio, this is the third episode in our series, The Warring Queens.
55:58 Alice Levine? A quick note about our dialogue: in most cases, we can't know exactly what was said, but all our dramatizations are based on historical research.
56:06 Matt Forde? If you'd like to know more about this story, you can read The True Life of Mary Stuart by John Guy and Rival Queens by Kate Williams. British Scandal is hosted by me, Matt Ford.
56:16 Alice Levine? And me, Alice Levine.
56:18 Matt Forde? Written by Wendy Granditza. Additional writing by Alice Levine and Matt Ford. Our story editor was James Maniac. Sound design by Richard Ward. Our engineer was Jai Williams. For Samistat, our series producer was Chika Ayers. Our assistant producer was Louise Mason. Our senior producers were Joe Sykes and Dash Illicitz. Executive producers for Audible were Theodora Leludis and Destel Doy.
56:56 Matt Forde? He lurks in shadow. He slips into dreams. He casts no reflection. Audible presents Bram Stoker's Dracula: How You've Never Heard It Before, with a new full-cast audio thriller starring Jonathan Bailey as Dracula, Ella Purnell as Mina Harker, and an A-list cast, including Maggie Gyllenhaal as Van Helsing, Amy Lou Wood as Lucy, David Johnson as Dr. Seward, and many more. When Mina's fiance Jonathan Harker vanishes in Transylvania, Mina pieces together letters, diary entries, and chilling testimony to hunt the predator stalking those she loves, only to discover Dracula's already hunting her.
57:43 Matt Forde? Audible's Dracula invites you to welcome literature's most shadowy figure into your home. Listen to the new audiobook adaptation of Bram Stoker's Dracula, only on Audible.
57:56 Speaker 04 For decades, two legendary brands fought for the hearts of American bikers: Indian Motorcycle and Harley-Davidson. The battle looked a lot like Coke versus Pepsi or Ford versus Chevy, but tastes changed and Indian didn't adapt fast enough. The icon all but died. Then came the con men, the dreamers, a string of spectacular failures that kept Indian in the grave, until one company finally got it right. This is the story of an improbable revival and the reignition of an old rivalry. Hey, I'm David Brown, the host of the podcast Business Wars. And every season, we bring you the true stories behind the companies that shape our world. Indian's new owners are going all in, but an existential crisis looms. Can Indian and Harley recruit enough younger riders to survive?
58:39 Speaker 04 Make sure to follow Business Wars wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all episodes of Business Wars early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.
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