The Way Back with Alex Ross Perry

We're talking about a very long walk this week as Alex Ross Perry joins us to discuss Peter Weir's final film, 2010's gulag escape drama The Way Back. Remember those couple of years when Jim Sturgess was everywhere? Remember when Peter Weir could barely get distribution for his follow-up to Master & Commander? Dire times. As is the case with most ARP episodes, expect some wild takes about everything from the Coen brothers to World War II movies, plus a very detailed rundown of the National Geographic Films slate. Check out Videoheaven on the Criterion Channel https://www.criterionchannel.com/videoheaven Buy some Pavements Merch / Blu-Ray https://vinegarsyndrome.com/products/pavements?variant=44405443756074 Listen to Critical Darlings discuss Train Dreams https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/train-dreams-and-netflixs-quest-for-best-picture/id1885681327?i=1000758499749 Sign up for Check Book https://blankcheckpod.substack.com/welcome, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. http://www.patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter https://x.com/blankcheckpod?lang=en, Instagram https://www.instagram.com/blankcheckpod/?hl=en, Threads https://www.threads.net/@blankcheckpod?xmt=AQGzctAh4mbWTwYzCV1pzNT6AMV9o99EOfymi8TLR5mTde0 and Facebook https://www.facebook.com/blankcheckpodcast/! Buy some real nerdy merch https://kinshipgoods.com/blankcheck Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/blankies/s/gpcOkQr8Sv or Discord https://discord.gg/Q6YGSR3JrA For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com https://www.blankcheckpod.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 0:03David Sims?

  Yep.

• 0:03Griffin Newman?

  We did a live show.

• 0:04David Sims?

  Yeah, remember?

• 0:05Griffin Newman?

  Ranking Scorsese at the Bell House in Brooklyn. We did the definitive power ranking of Martin Scorsese things.

• 0:12David Sims?

  Uh, it was so fun. Uh, it was very silly.

• 0:15Griffin Newman?

  Ben and Marie were with us and they're with us right now.

• 0:18David Sims?

  Yeah, hey.

• 0:18Speaker 02

  Hey, everyone, or should I say, oh?

• 0:20David Sims?

  Oh.

• 0:22Griffin Newman?

  And thanks to our friends at Dynasty Typewriter. It was livestreamed for the first time ever. But also, the replay is still up there, but only until October 30th.

• 0:31Speaker 03

  So just a few more days.

• 0:33David Sims?

  Yes.

• 0:33Speaker 03

  You can get it at dynasty.tv.

• 0:36David Sims?

  Dynasty.tv.

• 0:37Speaker 03

  It's $20. We had a blast and the Spreadmaster really got to work.

• 0:43David Sims?

  Oh, yeah. I was moving things around.

• 0:45Griffin Newman?

  Laptop was on.

• 0:46Speaker 02

  I don't know if I'd have seen you that happy.

• 0:48Griffin Newman?

  You were thrilled. You were like a pick and share.

• 0:50David Sims?

  I was locked in.

• 0:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, very locked in and you were funny.

• 0:53David Sims?

  Thank you. You were funny. You were also funny.

• 0:56Griffin Newman?

  Oh, thank you.

• 0:57David Sims?

  And if you want to see like, you know, Griffin's shine box on camera, it's the only way to see it.

• 1:02Griffin Newman?

  You might see me shine Marie's shoes.

• 1:04David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 1:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, if you're into that sort of content.

• 1:07Griffin Newman?

  If that gets you off.

• 1:09Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:10Speaker 03

  So once again, that's at dynasty.tv.

• 1:39Griffin Newman?

  In 2023, four men walked into the Blank Check offices to record a podcast. They had survived a three hour and 28 minute record on Fight Club. This episode is dedicated to them.

• 1:57David Sims?

  So is this a tagline?

• 1:59Griffin Newman?

  No, this is the title card that opens the film.

• 2:01David Sims?

  Okay, okay. You didn't want to do the tagline I found?

• 2:04Griffin Newman?

  Uh, I can do that as well. I think it sucks.

• 2:07David Sims?

  Yeah, go ahead.

• 2:08Griffin Newman?

  Their podcast was just the beginning.

• 2:10David Sims?

  Indeed. Was just the beginning. But well, how about this tagline? Every loss is another fight. So every loss is another podcast.

• 2:18Griffin Newman?

  Every podcast is another fight?

• 2:20David Sims?

  Yeah, I mean, that's sort of true.

• 2:21Griffin Newman?

  One battle after another, if you know what I'm saying.

• 2:23David Sims?

  That's the tagline for the film The Way Back.

• 2:26Griffin Newman?

  Oh, sure.

• 2:27David Sims?

  That with Ben Affleck.

• 2:29Griffin Newman?

  Fuck, you stepped on my bit.

• 2:30David Sims?

  I was gonna make.

• 2:30Griffin Newman?

  Okay, so what was your?

• 2:31David Sims?

  I was gonna say, it's really weird that Peter Weir came out of retirement to make this high school basketball movie. It wouldn't be that weird of him. It sounds like a good movie.

• 2:39Griffin Newman?

  My bit was going to be.

• 2:40David Sims?

  It's weird that Peter Weir made this like eighties throwback water park movie.

• 2:45Griffin Newman?

  Okay, right.

• 2:46David Sims?

  All right, so that's what I was about to do, the of my other tagline.

• 2:48Griffin Newman?

  So I had a two-stage bit, which was gonna be, one, just let's get this out of the way. We all agree this is Ben Affleck's best performance, right?

• 2:55David Sims?

  You could do that.

• 2:56Griffin Newman?

  Then I was gonna pretend I had watched the wrong movie. Then I was gonna say, no, of course I'm joking. It is surprising that Peter Weir came out of retirement to make an eighties water park movie, though.

• 3:04David Sims?

  Well, or, I mean, you could say, we're talking about The Way Way Back at this point.

• 3:07Griffin Newman?

  Right, that's a different film.

• 3:08David Sims?

  Not a sequel to this movie. Right, but you could argue like, yeah, it's funny. I did not anticipate the sequel being about, you know, you get it.

• 3:16Griffin Newman?

  They came out pretty close together, did they not?

• 3:18David Sims?

  The Way Way Back is 2013, and it's got a great tagline. And I really want you to hear it.

• 3:23Griffin Newman?

  I can't wait to hear it. My ears are open.

• 3:25David Sims?

  We've all been there. It's just like.

• 3:28Griffin Newman?

  Hell, yeah, brother.

• 3:28David Sims?

  People just walking into the theater and just like collapsing into a coma reading that tagline.

• 3:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, brother. I remember.

• 3:34David Sims?

  We've all been there.

• 3:35Griffin Newman?

  I remember thinking.

• 3:37David Sims?

  The Way Way Back, which is sitting in the back of a car. Okay. Read the cast of The Way Way Back. I'm about, Alex, sometimes you and I are just, I was like, I have to read this cast aloud. Steve Carell, Toni Collette. Rooster himself? Is that the show, the new show?

• 3:56Griffin Newman?

  I wanna get better.

• 3:57David Sims?

  We just completed rewatching The Pacific, and every time we started an episode, there was an ad for Rooster, and it became, every time I would go, oh, it's Rooster.

• 4:05Griffin Newman?

  I've been HBO maxing, and it feels like they drop a Rooster ad every mid-sentence, every line of dialogue.

• 4:12David Sims?

  The utter sickness of like Bill Lawrence, who obviously has contributed good things to our society, but now it's just like, do you want to do another show? And he's like, sure, is the guy, I don't know, he's gotta learn a lesson or something. Where's my money? You know, like.

• 4:25Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, but you're.

• 4:25David Sims?

  We'll cast a really famous guy in the role.

• 4:28Griffin Newman?

  David, you're forgetting something.

• 4:29David Sims?

  Tell me.

• 4:30Griffin Newman?

  A Rooster is like the biggest hit show HBO Max has had in like five years.

• 4:33David Sims?

  It is not.

• 4:35Griffin Newman?

  They have claimed as much.

• 4:36David Sims?

  They had the Night of the Seven Kingdoms.

• 4:38Griffin Newman?

  They have said it is their biggest premiere.

• 4:40David Sims?

  Sure, fine.

• 4:41Griffin Newman?

  In years.

• 4:42David Sims?

  Uh huh. Biggest premiere starring Steve Carell sat in a university or whatever Rooster is. Named after foul.

• 4:48Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 4:49David Sims?

  Right. This is our biggest chicken related poultry related drama. So way, way back.

• 4:56Griffin Newman?

  The other thing you have to remember is it was an incredible chess move against having to lead the Scrubs reboot.

• 5:01David Sims?

  Oh, so right. He's not. Is he just collecting a check on the Scrubs reboot? I mean, he must have.

• 5:05Griffin Newman?

  He blessed it.

• 5:06David Sims?

  Yeah, he came in and threw a football around for a day.

• 5:09Griffin Newman?

  David, David.

• 5:09David Sims?

  Can't do it.

• 5:10Griffin Newman?

  David, terrible news. He's stuck in an overall deal with Warner Brothers. Oh, no. He wishes he could run Scrubs. It feels like a normal writer's room.

• 5:19David Sims?

  A very flesh and blood writer's room.

• 5:21Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 5:22David Sims?

  You know what I mean?

• 5:22Griffin Newman?

  Humans.

• 5:23David Sims?

  Air brought in and out of the lungs in that writer's room by all the participants.

• 5:28Griffin Newman?

  The people who are giving notes are people and not cybernetic partners of humans.

• 5:36David Sims?

  Uh, Steve Carell, Toni Collette, Little Miss Sunshine so far. Allison Janney. Wow.

• 5:41Griffin Newman?

  She's, she's great in that movie. She would have made my five that year.

• 5:44David Sims?

  Okay, that's insane.

• 5:44Griffin Newman?

  That's the one she should have won the Oscar.

• 5:46David Sims?

  Anna Sophia Robb.

• 5:47Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, we love her.

• 5:48David Sims?

  Was she Carrie? Was she young Carrie?

• 5:51Griffin Newman?

  She wrote the diaries.

• 5:52David Sims?

  Sam Rockwell. He's being a jerk, right? Or is he nice?

• 5:55Griffin Newman?

  No, he's nice.

• 5:56David Sims?

  Okay, he's nice. Oh, it's Carell who's a jerk.

• 5:58Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, Carell first billed as weird outside of his star power.

• 6:02David Sims?

  He's a star, yeah.

• 6:02Griffin Newman?

  Sam Rockwell is like Bill Murray in Meatballs where it's like this guy's too cool for school and then he takes the sad kid under his wing and he's like, I'm actually sensitive too.

• 6:10David Sims?

  Oh, cool.

• 6:11Griffin Newman?

  You know, he's the mentor.

• 6:12David Sims?

  Sounds like a loser. Maya Rudolph.

• 6:14Griffin Newman?

  Maya Rudolph is his wife or long-term partner.

• 6:17David Sims?

  Great. Rob Corddry. The, the tail end of Corddry being like, sneak me onto the poster.

• 6:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 6:23David Sims?

  I can get on there.

• 6:23Griffin Newman?

  I think Corddry and Amanda.

• 6:24David Sims?

  Children's Hospital still airing.

• 6:26Griffin Newman?

  Are their parents' fun friends.

• 6:28David Sims?

  Amanda Peet rudely below Rob Corddry.

• 6:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 6:31David Sims?

  And then, and Liam James, is that the kid?

• 6:34Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 6:35David Sims?

  I mean, I'm dashing to the theater. We've all been there. This is a coming of age movie with only.

• 6:39Speaker 04

  Only adults in it?

• 6:40David Sims?

  And Liam James.

• 6:42Griffin Newman?

  And Anna Sefira.

• 6:43Speaker 04

  But that's two.

• 6:44David Sims?

  No, but I know. The overwhelming amount of like, look, there's guys from gentle sundancey comedies of other, you know.

• 6:51Speaker 04

  Wasn't this a giant Sundance movie?

• 6:53Griffin Newman?

  It was.

• 6:53David Sims?

  It was.

• 6:53Griffin Newman?

  It was a big purchase.

• 6:54Speaker 04

  Like 20 million sale, 2 million gross kind of thing?

• 6:57David Sims?

  Oh, yeah.

• 6:57Griffin Newman?

  It wasn't quite a full Happy Texas, but it was maybe a 10 and a 5.

• 7:01David Sims?

  Let's find out. Let's find out.

• 7:02Griffin Newman?

  I'm guessing it was a 10 and a 5.

• 7:04Speaker 04

  Do you think anyone today, other than people watching the skies at that time, remember Happy Texas?

• 7:11Griffin Newman?

  You know.

• 7:12David Sims?

  Happy Texas is only remembered because of the Sundance.

• 7:16Speaker 04

  It's not even like, I feel like now people like Hamlet 2. Sometimes people are like secretly a good movie. But I feel like Happy Texas only comes up in this.

• 7:24David Sims?

  I don't think it's like on streaming.

• 7:26Speaker 04

  I was going to ask.

• 7:27Griffin Newman?

  It feels a little lost. Happy Texas, I remember liking.

• 7:30David Sims?

  It's a perfectly good movie.

• 7:31Griffin Newman?

  Perfectly fun. And I remember my brother and I being at like the video store, Couch Potato Video, across the street. My brother, Jamesy, and I being like, what's this? And my dad's like, Happy Texas? That's like the most expensive Sundance buy of all time. It flamed out. And we were like, interesting. Watched it like four years after its irrelevancy and liked it. Critical Darling's podcast, under the Blank Check Productions banner, that I've been executive producing, did an episode on train dreams and the history of like Sundance movies at the Oscars, especially as it's now like, the original form of Sundance has now come to an end. And I was just eagerly typing in the notes, bring up Happy Texas.

• 8:12Griffin Newman?

  Happy Texas must be discussed. You must go through the process of explaining Happy Texas to Ben Frisch. It is important that it exists as a cultural reference point forever. We cannot let it slide into oblivion.

• 8:24David Sims?

  I need to correct the record on the way, way back.

• 8:26Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 8:26David Sims?

  Fox Searchlight purchased it for $10 million.

• 8:28Griffin Newman?

  I guess 10.

• 8:29David Sims?

  At Sundance, which was a lot. Like, that was a big deal. But it made $21.5 million in North America.

• 8:35Griffin Newman?

  Domestically?

• 8:36David Sims?

  Domestic. And an additional five world.

• 8:39Griffin Newman?

  It doubled the investment.

• 8:40Speaker 04

  That's a lot more than the Wayback made.

• 8:41Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 8:42Speaker 04

  They snuck it, I guess, because they had an extra way. So that's, that's more money.

• 8:46David Sims?

  But I mean, like, do we agree that if we're rank, if we're wanking, if we're ranking Waybacks?

• 8:52Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 8:53David Sims?

  Affleck, I would put one, and Way Way is a solid third, or are we putting Peter Weir in third? I would not.

• 9:00Griffin Newman?

  I like the Way Way.

• 9:01David Sims?

  But, fair enough, fair enough.

• 9:03Speaker 03

  Now, if you were wanking.

• 9:05David Sims?

  If you're wanking.

• 9:06Speaker 03

  What's your order?

• 9:07David Sims?

  These are three films that are not really going for rawness.

• 9:10Speaker 04

  If you had to way way or watch Richard E. Grant's Wawa, which would you prefer? Way Way or Wawa?

• 9:17Griffin Newman?

  Look, Way Way is Timu Adventureland, but I like Adventureland so much, I'll settle for off-brand Adventureland. I struggled with this movie a bit. I think it is very well made. I, I'm not like, uh.

• 9:34Speaker 03

  I meant to.

• 9:34Griffin Newman?

  Did you just say fuck?

• 9:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, I meant to put the sound all the way up, the gain, so that it just, the whole episode sounded blown out and just like really harsh and hard to listen to.

• 9:45Griffin Newman?

  Good, good.

• 9:46Speaker 03

  So that it mirrors the movie.

• 9:47Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 9:47David Sims?

  Oh, sure. Yeah, okay.

• 9:48Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 9:49David Sims?

  And then should our faces like kind of crinkle and get all dried up and our lips get all like chapped and fucked up?

• 9:54Griffin Newman?

  If we want to get an Oscar nomination, sure. Best makeup. This movie is only major nomination.

• 9:59Speaker 03

  I'm gonna have to confiscate all of the liquids.

• 10:02Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 10:02Speaker 03

  No one's drinking.

• 10:03Griffin Newman?

  I watched on the Blu-ray, there was a, a featurette, there was like a 30-minute making of with all the actors. And Ed Harris has the most blown-out audio I have ever heard. It sounds like he was recording in the middle of a tornado. It is insane because you're watching and you're like, oh, I guess they must have done this one over Zoom or something. And then you're like, no, it was 2010. It's crazy. What's the excuse?

• 10:26Speaker 04

  You're talking in special features.

• 10:28Griffin Newman?

  Making of. I'm talking making of.

• 10:29Speaker 04

  Ben's talking about the movie.

• 10:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 10:30Speaker 03

  The movie itself, yeah, also bad.

• 10:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 10:32Speaker 03

  So maybe it was the same sound guy, same sound department. I don't know.

• 10:35Griffin Newman?

  They were filming in pretty harsh conditions.

• 10:37Speaker 04

  It's a windy movie.

• 10:38Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 10:38Speaker 03

  Sure, but still.

• 10:39Speaker 04

  You don't have to fuck with wind screens in here.

• 10:41David Sims?

  It would be funny if they all had wind screens.

• 10:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. This is a windscreen. This, this will go.

• 10:46David Sims?

  No, no, I mean, in the movie, like Colin Farrell's like, I'll knife you when he's holding up a windscreen.

• 10:50Griffin Newman?

  It also would be funny if they were all like holding up lobes between their fingers, even though the clip is the part that's supposed to go on your shirt. But they were doing like the TikToker thing.

• 10:57David Sims?

  That's what the TikTokers do.

• 10:58Griffin Newman?

  That's what the TikTokers do.

• 10:59David Sims?

  You know who doesn't know about TikTokers? The characters of The Wayback.

• 11:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Here's, here's an immediate.

• 11:06Speaker 04

  That was deft.

• 11:06Griffin Newman?

  An immediate reveal of how little I had ever engaged with this movie until watching it last night, like seriously engaged. It starts, and like from that first title card, I was like, oh, this movie isn't about Irish people? I just assumed you got Colin Farrell.

• 11:20David Sims?

  Because Colin and Saoirse are involved?

• 11:22Griffin Newman?

  And Saoirse, and I'm like, Sturgess swings Irish a lot. I know he's actually British, but I feel like he plays Irish a lot.

• 11:27David Sims?

  He's definitely played Irish, I think, yeah.

• 11:29Griffin Newman?

  Right, and I'm like, Ed Harris could play Irish. I was so confident this was a movie about like, the fucking potato famine or something. I had no-

• 11:37David Sims?

  It is one of those movies with a poster, you're like, I don't know, it looks, looks like these guys are having a bad time doing something. You know, like, I don't know what.

• 11:44Griffin Newman?

  My full level of engagement with this movie is, these characters are struggling. These actors on the poster are struggling in some way, and I think they're walking a lot.

• 11:52Speaker 04

  That has the same game that, that sometimes we do. A movie like, not, not this, but bigger ones, like, you could say to like, uh, somebody, before they watch The Year of Living Dangerously.

• 12:04Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 12:04Speaker 04

  What do you think this movie's about?

• 12:05Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 12:06Speaker 04

  And it's one of those things where people are like, I don't know, I've heard of this title forever.

• 12:09Griffin Newman?

  Right, right.

• 12:09Speaker 04

  I've, I, you know, maybe it's about like, um, like alcoholic relationship of people that really, you know, it's a days of wine and roses kind of thing.

• 12:16David Sims?

  Or it could be like, yes, man, it's like, he does one year, living really dangerously.

• 12:20Griffin Newman?

  He says the most, he says-

• 12:22David Sims?

  He does the most dangerous way of doing everything.

• 12:24Speaker 04

  Sometimes we, we throw that out as a challenge when, when we're watching something like, famously, at, at home, Anna had never seen Rain Man.

• 12:32Griffin Newman?

  Your wife, yeah.

• 12:33Speaker 04

  And before we started it, this was years ago, I said, what do you think this movie's about? She said, it's about like, a guy who's like, a savant at gambling, and he makes it rain in Las Vegas, because all she'd ever seen was the shot in the casino.

• 12:43David Sims?

  Which is true.

• 12:43Speaker 04

  And I was like, that's, that's what you think this entire movie's about. This is like a gambling 21 to bring-

• 12:49Griffin Newman?

  And that's why it's called Rain Man.

• 12:50Speaker 04

  21 Jim Sturgess, right?

• 12:51Griffin Newman?

  It is.

• 12:51Speaker 04

  Okay, so she thought it was like 21, like a guy who fixes gambling.

• 12:55Griffin Newman?

  I was looking at the timeline, because Social Network comes out the same year as this movie.

• 13:02David Sims?

  Uh, 2010, sure, yes, yeah.

• 13:04Griffin Newman?

  Andrew Garfield just fucking blew Jim Sturgess to the black wall.

• 13:08David Sims?

  I was, yeah, like, who market corrected Jim Sturgess? Like, I was looking at that too, because I was like-

• 13:13Griffin Newman?

  He was really, they were pushing him hard, and then I felt like he completely slipped into oblivion, and I, watching it, I was just like, oh, this brand of like, intense sensitivity in the face of adversity, became-

• 13:28Griffin Newman?

  You know, like one of Andrew Garfield's superpowers.

• 13:30Speaker 04

  I neglected to look up Jim Sturgess so that we could have the fun of-

• 13:33David Sims?

  We'll have a look at Jim. Cause it is a, like, my wife was like, who's that? You know, cause it's like Colin Farrell. Whoa, Saoirse wrote into this and she's like, and who's that? And I'm like, Jim Sturgess. But I might as well just be going like, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, it's just like, it's like the name of a handsome sounding guy.

• 13:48Griffin Newman?

  But like, four years was a thing.

• 13:52David Sims?

  Are we gonna say he was-

• 13:53Griffin Newman?

  Across the universe?

• 13:54David Sims?

  No, we're gonna do his career.

• 13:55Griffin Newman?

  Okay, we're gonna do-

• 13:56David Sims?

  I'm arguing, like, was he ever a thing? Hollywood was trying to make him a thing.

• 14:00Griffin Newman?

  Hollywood-

• 14:00David Sims?

  There was a thought that he could be a thing.

• 14:02Griffin Newman?

  I think Hollywood was acting like he already was a thing.

• 14:05David Sims?

  But that's what they do all the time.

• 14:07Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 14:07David Sims?

  And sometimes it works.

• 14:08Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 14:08David Sims?

  And sometimes it's the Colin Farrell thing where people are like, we sort of agreed that he was a thing, but you're trying a little too hard to make him a thing. Put him away.

• 14:16Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 14:16David Sims?

  And then after a few years, they're like, nah, he was a thing. Let's get him back. Let's get, open up the box. Where Colin go?

• 14:22Griffin Newman?

  I mean, we'll do it, but it's so funny to actually go through the Colin Farrell filmography, item by item, because you, you think of it in your mind as like, oh, and then he totally bottomed out, and then he had a clean comeback, and then he bottomed out. It's always up and down. He never stops working, but it's always like, a good choice, a bad choice, two good choices, three bad choices. Yeah.

• 14:43David Sims?

  Feels like someone paying the bills.

• 14:45Speaker 04

  I think if he had been, if Colin Farrell here in this movie,

• 14:48Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 14:49Speaker 04

  five years earlier or five years later, people would have really lined up for him.

• 14:53Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 14:53David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 14:54Speaker 04

  Like, earlier, it's like, man, this guy can do anything. And later, it would be like, Colin Farrell's like, always kinda good and like, it's cool that he's in this big auteur movie in a small part. We love Colin Farrell.

• 15:03Griffin Newman?

  He's fantastic in this.

• 15:04Speaker 04

  But at this point, people were kinda like, that's enough of this guy.

• 15:07Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, also, it's like, five years earlier, he would have been the Jim Sturgess part. And this movie would have been legitimate.

• 15:13David Sims?

  Colin being in this movie was so excited to David Sims.

• 15:17Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 15:18Speaker 04

  So exciting, you didn't see it for 14 years.

• 15:20David Sims?

  But this is what I'm saying.

• 15:21Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 15:22David Sims?

  It's like Peter Weir's making his follow-up to Master and Commander. I'm like, sounds good. And they're like, it's like a true story drama about, and I'm like, okay, sounds fine. And like, but Colin Farrell's in it. I was like, I love that.

• 15:31Griffin Newman?

  He's got the and.

• 15:32David Sims?

  He's got the, right, he's got the sort of plum supporting role.

• 15:35Griffin Newman?

  Peter Weir's letting him do a character actor part.

• 15:37David Sims?

  And then the review, you know, the film came out and everyone was like, uh, it's okay. Sort of handsome. And I was like, oh, and then it was gone, like, from theaters. And I was like, okay, well, I guess I missed it.

• 15:48Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 15:49David Sims?

  I guess I'll wait for Peter Weir's next movie.

• 15:51Griffin Newman?

  Never.

• 15:52David Sims?

  Still waiting.

• 15:52Speaker 04

  I have a very clear memory of trying to see this at Union Square and just not getting around to it.

• 15:58David Sims?

  Like you were like walking around the hallways and there's-

• 16:00Speaker 04

  No, I just like back in the, back at that time, like you would just, you would just write down, you just write down showtimes and be like,

• 16:05David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 16:06Speaker 04

  This week I could go see, and I just, I just remember Post-it note, Union Square, the way back, you know,

• 16:12David Sims?

  Fucking Memento style.

• 16:14Speaker 04

  I could go see that like this week or next week because I really want to go see it.

• 16:18David Sims?

  Yes.

• 16:19Speaker 04

  Didn't happen.

• 16:19Griffin Newman?

  Never happened.

• 16:20Speaker 04

  I saw it years ago.

• 16:22David Sims?

  But you did see it.

• 16:23Speaker 04

  Years after that.

• 16:24David Sims?

  Well, I assume you saw it as part of one of your sort of projects.

• 16:27Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 16:28David Sims?

  And we can talk about that, but we should first say what the podcast is.

• 16:30Speaker 04

  Project of watching good movies.

• 16:31David Sims?

  Of course, the eternal project we're all part of. What's the podcast?

• 16:35Griffin Newman?

  This podcast is called Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin.

• 16:39David Sims?

  I'm David.

• 16:39Griffin Newman?

  You almost just fell for it. You almost, you started looking at an email. You almost missed the cue.

• 16:44David Sims?

  I almost did.

• 16:44Griffin Newman?

  You were like three seconds slow.

• 16:45David Sims?

  Someone actually texted me, who do you think will win Blank Check March Madness?

• 16:49Griffin Newman?

  The carbon date this episode record, yeah.

• 16:51David Sims?

  Right. And I was like, ooh. And I had a little, I, my brain did a little thought.

• 16:54Speaker 04

  I should vote while, while you guys are off on some tangent.

• 16:57Griffin Newman?

  Who texted you and how are you gonna answer?

• 16:58David Sims?

  Uh, Ellen Cushing, host of Hits Different.

• 17:00Griffin Newman?

  Your secret podcast.

• 17:02David Sims?

  Uh, it's not a secret. I want everyone to listen to it. But, uh, I said, I, I'm still thinking it's gonna be Marty Tony. And I think I'd bet Tony, but very soft, like I put a flutter down, like a 10 bucks on Tony. Like I'm not feeling too secure.

• 17:18Griffin Newman?

  Awesome. Much like Wes Anderson movies often have one burst of a static violence.

• 17:24David Sims?

  Yeah, right.

• 17:26Griffin Newman?

  Perhaps he just shanks Tony Scott.

• 17:28David Sims?

  It would be funny if we're like, oh, Tony's a juggernaut. And then right, like, uh, uh, he gets blown in half by Wes Anderson in a very artful way.

• 17:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 17:36David Sims?

  Uh, but no, I think that would be my guess. I mean, what's your guess? Is it for carbon dating the episode now?

• 17:42Griffin Newman?

  I feel like it's swinging Tony, but maybe I'm very wrong about this.

• 17:46David Sims?

  I'm just making the Tony guess on the, we've already said the sort of like, well, there's just the, the mildest backlash to Marty the juggernaut. And so maybe Tony benefits.

• 17:54Griffin Newman?

  Don't tell me who I'm gonna vote for.

• 17:56David Sims?

  But that's, then I, I don't really know.

• 17:58Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 17:59David Sims?

  I can't keep, can't get in the brains of these crazy people.

• 18:02Speaker 04

  They voted for Chris fucking Columbus over Oliver Stone.

• 18:05Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna tee you up for that.

• 18:06Speaker 04

  You can't get, you can't, can't predict anything.

• 18:07David Sims?

  And I think he's, he's gonna sneak by whoever he's up against today. Gus Van Sant, right?

• 18:12Speaker 04

  That was a war crime to watch. Speaking of sending to the Gulag, like 5,000 Gulag seats needed for people that looked at

• 18:20David Sims?

  Why are you here?

• 18:21Speaker 04

  The last 10 years of Columbus and were like, that would be-

• 18:24David Sims?

  I voted for Chris Columbus.

• 18:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, I really want them to cover Pixels and Christmas Chronicles 2, but not one.

• 18:30David Sims?

  A Pixels episode would go fairly hard.

• 18:32Griffin Newman?

  Christmas Chronicles would be a nightmare.

• 18:34Speaker 04

  There's a couple in between. And the fucking Thursday Murder Club.

• 18:38Griffin Newman?

  Oh, yeah, Jesus. Yeah, the Netflix run is really bad. But, but I mean, Chris Columbus is, is currently like a folding Gus Van Sant, like one of his flannel shirts, right?

• 18:48Speaker 04

  Here's the insane thing to me.

• 18:49David Sims?

  He's edging by. He's not folding.

• 18:51Speaker 04

  Obviously, my, my, my, my support of you guys doing Oliver Stone needs no introduction at this point. Here's the insane thing about people voting for Chris Columbus.

• 18:58Griffin Newman?

  Here we go.

• 18:59Speaker 04

  You'd have to keep covering his movies.

• 19:01David Sims?

  It is true that we would be setting up-

• 19:02Speaker 04

  Don't they realize that this guy makes like a Netflix piece of shit every two years?

• 19:06David Sims?

  I'm happy to report this. I, I'm not, I wish him no ill will. He seems very healthy.

• 19:10Griffin Newman?

  He does.

• 19:11David Sims?

  Like, I'm not looking at Chris Columbus being like, this guy's near retirement. He seems like he's in great shape.

• 19:15Griffin Newman?

  He's got four decades of bullshit left in him.

• 19:17Speaker 04

  But he could honestly, like, you know, he could, there's no bottom to what he could end up making next.

• 19:22Griffin Newman?

  Now, I wanna share with you, Alex-

• 19:24David Sims?

  He's adding to the ledger. Oh, yeah.

• 19:25Griffin Newman?

  JJ-

• 19:26David Sims?

  JJ Burton.

• 19:27Griffin Newman?

  In our group thread, our researcher was saying he secretly wants Columbus to win. Yeah, in fact, he prefaced it with, "I'm keeping quiet about this." So it's really, it's kindness must be sure it all night.

• 19:36Speaker 04

  So that he can have several months off because you guys would cover someone no one writes about or gives a fuck about.

• 19:41David Sims?

  Right. His dossier would be like one page.

• 19:43Speaker 04

  Be like, yeah, here's this-

• 19:44David Sims?

  Pixels was released on this date.

• 19:47Speaker 04

  Christmas Chronicles 2 was like-

• 19:48David Sims?

  Based on a dumb idea Adam Sandler had.

• 19:50Griffin Newman?

  He's figured out the way to like be Alastair, his own job.

• 19:53Speaker 04

  Yeah, this, this movie had one public screening. It was like the Family Heartland Gala at the Nebraska Film Festival. Columbus did one interview for it. Here it is.

• 20:02Griffin Newman?

  It won-

• 20:02David Sims?

  The Family Heartland Gala.

• 20:04Griffin Newman?

  It won like the Dove Family Gentleness Award.

• 20:07David Sims?

  Chris Columbus has made three of the most successful films ever made in the history of Hollywood as a commercial enterprise.

• 20:14Speaker 04

  Home Alone, Mrs. Doubtfire, and Harry fucking Potter.

• 20:17Griffin Newman?

  Sure, so, but two Harry Potters, two Home Alones, Mrs. Dolefer.

• 20:21David Sims?

  Exactly, the sequels, which are less exciting.

• 20:24Griffin Newman?

  But five of the highest grossing films in history.

• 20:26David Sims?

  I love you, but Beth Cooper made a Bill 5, right?

• 20:28Griffin Newman?

  It did, but that's the Rust bump. We can't give that to him.

• 20:30David Sims?

  Yeah, we can have Rust on that episode.

• 20:31Griffin Newman?

  We could.

• 20:32David Sims?

  I have no idea how he feels about that movie.

• 20:33Griffin Newman?

  I think he probably wants to do Percy Jackson instead. This is a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion products they want. And sometimes those checks clear, and sometimes they walk a really fucking long way. This movie should be called The Long Walk, right? I assume they couldn't because of the fucking Stephen King book.

• 20:57David Sims?

  I assume so. Obviously, it is based on a book called The Long Walk. So it's interesting that they did not, but yeah, maybe they were worried they would come off as an adaptation of a Stephen King story.

• 21:07Griffin Newman?

  Call it The Longest Walk or something. I'm like, the way back tells me nothing. And this movie starts and I'm like, oh, the premises, they have to walk.

• 21:13Speaker 04

  They're also not going back anywhere. They're going somewhere none of them have been before.

• 21:17David Sims?

  That is true. I don't, I think this is like a fairly good movie. I think it's fairly well done, yada, yada.

• 21:23Griffin Newman?

  It's well made.

• 21:24David Sims?

  I think the answer to all of our questions is like, don't make this movie, make something else.

• 21:27Speaker 04

  Just make something else. Who are you talking to in this scenario?

• 21:29David Sims?

  Peter Weir. Like, or I'm just like, you know, if this is gonna be your last thing and you're gonna put a lot of effort into it, I think you should do something else.

• 21:36Griffin Newman?

  But do you think he called this was his last thing?

• 21:39David Sims?

  I'm not sure that he did. We can look at the research.

• 21:41Griffin Newman?

  Here's a theory I wanna put forward. Do we think, you know, Ethan Hawke gave this interview recently, because this is a mini-series on the films of Peter Weir. It's called Podnikat hanging cast. Our guest today, of course, is Alex Ross Perry.

• 21:52Speaker 04

  Returning after my banishment has been lifted.

• 21:54Griffin Newman?

  We're gonna, pin in this. Pin.

• 21:57David Sims?

  I have some news.

• 21:58Griffin Newman?

  In this, what?

• 21:58David Sims?

  This is his 10th episode.

• 21:59Speaker 04

  Is that right? Of main feed. Wow.

• 22:03David Sims?

  Of main feed, unless I'm wrong about something. I'm gonna read them out now.

• 22:06Speaker 04

  And I brought gifts for you guys.

• 22:07Griffin Newman?

  Can I try to guess them?

• 22:08Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 22:09Griffin Newman?

  Fuck.

• 22:10David Sims?

  You wanna go in order?

• 22:11Griffin Newman?

  I forgot to wear my Hollow Man hat today. I was gonna do that to memorialize your run. Um, okay, so it starts with...

• 22:20Speaker 04

  Insomnia.

• 22:21Griffin Newman?

  Starts with insomnia, which I rewatched recently.

• 22:24David Sims?

  Good movie.

• 22:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, because my insomnia has been out of control and I was like, it's time to check in with Detective Dorm.

• 22:30David Sims?

  Let me sleep.

• 22:32Griffin Newman?

  Um.

• 22:33David Sims?

  Garbage bags. The garbage scene is in the Skarsgård version.

• 22:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 22:38David Sims?

  I like when I rewatched, when I watched the, the, the original, like Insomnia, because I told on criteria, I bought it at some point.

• 22:43Griffin Newman?

  And just announced as a, a new deluxe second site, four kit package.

• 22:47David Sims?

  Okay, I'm fine with my Criterion Blu-ray, but like, where's, there's the scene where Skarsgård's like picking up garbage. I'm like, wow, this is just all in the original, like, anyway.

• 22:56Griffin Newman?

  I do think the Nolan's better.

• 22:57David Sims?

  I agree. I haven't, yes, it is definitely better. Skarsgård's really good in it.

• 23:00Griffin Newman?

  Insomnia, then it's, is it Hollow Man and then The Keep?

• 23:06David Sims?

  Hollow Man and then?

• 23:08Speaker 04

  Taking Woodstock.

• 23:09David Sims?

  There you go.

• 23:09Griffin Newman?

  Taking Woodstock.

• 23:10Speaker 04

  Those are the ones I remember doing at Audioboom.

• 23:13David Sims?

  Those are the first four in studio. The fifth was a remote episode.

• 23:16Griffin Newman?

  And that was always when it was, can I pick the least relevant film?

• 23:20Speaker 04

  Which I have done, again, I argue.

• 23:23Griffin Newman?

  We've come back around to it because then when we get onto Zoom, it swings into.

• 23:27Speaker 04

  Well, Lucky Numbers was irrelevant.

• 23:29Griffin Newman?

  Oh, oh, you're right. That's, that's the end of the irrelevancy.

• 23:32Speaker 04

  That's a Ben's landlord who bought the tape and kept it sealed, but is it relevant to most people?

• 23:36Griffin Newman?

  We still have it here in the office.

• 23:37David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 23:38Griffin Newman?

  On DVD and VHS.

• 23:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, I brought the DVD and then Ben brought the tape.

• 23:42Griffin Newman?

  And then it swings around to four of the most important movies in your history as a person. So then it's Halloween, or right, Halloween?

• 23:50David Sims?

  Correct.

• 23:51Griffin Newman?

  Into Fight Club.

• 23:53David Sims?

  Nope, you're missing one. Bit of a contentious episode.

• 23:56Speaker 04

  Now I have to think of what we did at Ben's house.

• 23:58Griffin Newman?

  Clockwork Orange.

• 23:59David Sims?

  Correct. And so the Halloween and Clockwork Orange, those were at Ben's place.

• 24:03Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 24:03David Sims?

  And then the most recent two, he did.

• 24:05Speaker 04

  I think Clockwork Orange was here.

• 24:06David Sims?

  Nope.

• 24:07Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 24:07David Sims?

  It was at Ben's house. I drove you home after.

• 24:09Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 24:10Griffin Newman?

  That must have been a fun ride home.

• 24:11David Sims?

  I have referenced this on the podcast before. It was.

• 24:14Griffin Newman?

  You worked it out.

• 24:15David Sims?

  We didn't have to work out anything. Everything was in, was, everyone on this Reddit is always like, Jesus, you could cut the tension in the room.

• 24:23Speaker 04

  Right, we got home and we, or in the drive, we analyzed the career of Macaulay Culkin. While David, while David blasted the prodigy and said, I listen to this song every day.

• 24:32David Sims?

  So I wasn't like, Alex, it was really fucked up in there. I'm really mad at you. Like, there was no atmosphere.

• 24:38Speaker 04

  David was like.

• 24:39David Sims?

  Except in the room when I was like, Jesus Christ.

• 24:41Speaker 04

  When MC Maxx and Reality entered into this, this particular phase of his rhymes.

• 24:46Griffin Newman?

  Uh, but wait, there was one after Fight Club, right?

• 24:48David Sims?

  Correct. His most recent.

• 24:50Speaker 04

  Elephant Man.

• 24:51Griffin Newman?

  Elephant Man.

• 24:52David Sims?

  So that's nine, and this is 10, and you are back to maybe the less relevant episode.

• 24:56Speaker 04

  Perhaps, perhaps. But I've also never done the last movie.

• 25:00Griffin Newman?

  You've never done the last film?

• 25:02Speaker 04

  Never been here for a ranking.

• 25:03David Sims?

  Oh, that's right.

• 25:04Griffin Newman?

  Although we're gonna have to fit our ranking in, record it later.

• 25:07David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 25:07Speaker 04

  Oh, because you haven't watched all the movies yet?

• 25:09David Sims?

  I, I haven't, I mean, I've seen all the movies. But I haven't rewatched Year of Living Dangerously yet. I've only seen that film once.

• 25:16Griffin Newman?

  I've never seen that, and I've only seen Master and Commander once, so I desperately need to rewatch before I rank.

• 25:22David Sims?

  Feeling that Master and Commander might be number one on my list, not to spoil, so.

• 25:25Griffin Newman?

  Interesting.

• 25:26Speaker 04

  You guys haven't, you guys haven't, uh, you've done those episodes yet?

• 25:29Griffin Newman?

  Those are the two we haven't done.

• 25:31David Sims?

  Correct.

• 25:31Speaker 04

  Um, were either of you present at Lincoln Center for the Peter Weir retrospective around when this movie came out?

• 25:38Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 25:38Speaker 04

  He was there.

• 25:39David Sims?

  I just.

• 25:39Speaker 04

  He came.

• 25:40Griffin Newman?

  He made it weird?

• 25:41Speaker 04

  A week of Q and As. Yeah, that's what it was called.

• 25:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 25:43David Sims?

  But it was centered around this.

• 25:45Speaker 04

  I believe so. I could be wrong. In my mind, it was 2010, so I think it was sort of in conjunction with this movie.

• 25:52David Sims?

  If he was doing a retrospective, I mean, that makes sense. Yes, it was January 2011.

• 25:57Speaker 04

  Which is when this.

• 25:58David Sims?

  I mean, it was when this is probably going wide. This film came out, uh, oh no, I didn't.

• 26:03Speaker 04

  Isn't it early 2011?

• 26:04David Sims?

  Uh, came out early 2011.

• 26:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, so it was.

• 26:07Griffin Newman?

  So it has a qualifying run in 2010, gets nominated.

• 26:11David Sims?

  No, it didn't have, no, no, wait, did?

• 26:13Speaker 04

  I think it's a festival, 2010.

• 26:15David Sims?

  It's a festival 2010.

• 26:16Griffin Newman?

  It's a festival 2010, it's a proper theatrical 2011?

• 26:20David Sims?

  Right, because it loses to The Wolfman for makeup.

• 26:23Griffin Newman?

  Okay. Yes.

• 26:24David Sims?

  And that's the, no, that is the 20, so it must have had some, like, pathetic qualifying.

• 26:29Griffin Newman?

  It must have a pathetic piece of shit qualifying run.

• 26:33David Sims?

  I mean, truly, it, yes, Griffin.

• 26:34Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 26:35David Sims?

  December 29th, 2010, Los Angeles, California, like, they don't even allow that at the Oscars anymore. They're kind of like, what? We coughed it onto theaters for like, one day on like, New Year's Eve.

• 26:45Griffin Newman?

  I mean, this was in, uh, Image and New Market.

• 26:48David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 26:49Griffin Newman?

  Co-distribution deal.

• 26:50David Sims?

  Yeah. So, but it came out, uh, and it's not even wide, but like, sort of 600 screens. January twenty eleven.

• 26:57Speaker 04

  So neither one of you, you were not present at this retrospect.

• 26:59David Sims?

  No.

• 26:59Speaker 04

  It was great.

• 27:00David Sims?

  No, I didn't have any money.

• 27:01Speaker 04

  It was, um, well, I mean, you can go see a movie.

• 27:03Griffin Newman?

  No, you're forgetting, Alex, it did infinitely cost one million dollars a ticket.

• 27:07Speaker 04

  Oh, that's right, yeah.

• 27:08Griffin Newman?

  For the Peter Weir retrospective.

• 27:09Speaker 04

  It was great, but he was there for almost all the Q and As.

• 27:12David Sims?

  Rocks, yeah.

• 27:13Speaker 04

  I, he, I saw him do a Q and A at a double feature of Year of Living Dangerously and The Mosquito Coast.

• 27:19David Sims?

  That's cool.

• 27:20Speaker 04

  And then I think he just gave like a talk. I think there was like a ninety minute like discussion some other day.

• 27:24David Sims?

  His muggiest movies.

• 27:26Speaker 04

  Um, yeah.

• 27:26David Sims?

  Those, those are the two most kind of like damp aired films that he made.

• 27:30Speaker 04

  I had already liked those movies, but seeing them at Walter Reed on film with him, it was like, man, these are the best. Like, this guy's, and I saw Gallipoli there. I saw a bunch of movies because I was kind of filling in the gaps.

• 27:42David Sims?

  Sure.

• 27:43Speaker 04

  And it was a really, a really successful series for me.

• 27:46David Sims?

  I mean, he's, uh, this has been a successful series for us. He's made really interesting, great movies, some of which I know well, some of which I'd like seen zero to one times.

• 27:55Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 27:55David Sims?

  And they were all rewarding. And even this, which was the true, oh, I'll get to it. I know I should see, I know Peter Weir made it like for, like, basically for the last fifteen years. I've been like, no, no, I, I, I'm planning on getting to that.

• 28:08Speaker 04

  That's strange because to me, this is an incredibly easy to watch movie.

• 28:12Griffin Newman?

  I, I found this film so hard to watch.

• 28:14Speaker 04

  Like the, I'm getting to that is like, well, it's a hundred and seventy minutes long. Everybody thinks it's bad. This is like.

• 28:20David Sims?

  This is one thirty-three.

• 28:21Speaker 04

  Yeah, but that's.

• 28:21David Sims?

  Not short.

• 28:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, but it's rock'em, sock'em.

• 28:24David Sims?

  I would say that.

• 28:25Speaker 04

  Very early in the movie.

• 28:25Griffin Newman?

  You just described this movie as rock'em, sock'em.

• 28:28David Sims?

  So I, I did not find it as hard as I, I'm unsurprised to learn Griffin found it.

• 28:31Griffin Newman?

  I don't think this is a bad film, and it wasn't like I was like squirming in my seat in discomfort, but I did find it to be a bit of a slog, a handsome.

• 28:40Speaker 04

  Would you have enjoyed this more?

• 28:41Griffin Newman?

  Well-intentioned slog.

• 28:41Speaker 04

  In a four D X re-release.

• 28:43Griffin Newman?

  No question.

• 28:44Speaker 04

  This movie would.

• 28:44Griffin Newman?

  If the steps were happening, the subtle steps.

• 28:48Speaker 04

  Or like a-

• 28:48David Sims?

  It's like you coughing to see coughs for you.

• 28:50Speaker 04

  A treadmill screening.

• 28:51Griffin Newman?

  Yes, I'd love a slow treadmill screening.

• 28:53Speaker 03

  It would spray dirty water in your face.

• 28:55David Sims?

  Yeah, mosquitoes would come out.

• 28:58Griffin Newman?

  But imagine how satisfying it would be when they get to the, the water in the middle of the desert and suddenly the, they're just spraying water directly into your mouth.

• 29:05David Sims?

  I, yeah.

• 29:06Griffin Newman?

  Like a fucking water pump.

• 29:07David Sims?

  I would say, I thought this film was going to be a little more like brutal and tough to watch and slow. And I was, I was when I watched, I was like, no, this moves. Cause I'm like, right, cause Peter Weir's like a good director and like, this isn't quite the slug I thought it was gonna be. I would not call it rock'em sockem.

• 29:23Speaker 04

  You don't think the, you don't think the Gulag break is rock'em sockem?

• 29:26Griffin Newman?

  I've reserved that term for robots only.

• 29:29David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 29:30Griffin Newman?

  Real Steel is a rock'em sockem movie.

• 29:32David Sims?

  Yes.

• 29:33Griffin Newman?

  It is.

• 29:34David Sims?

  I mean, if it, if it wasn't, then they really blew the assignment.

• 29:38Griffin Newman?

  I'm not saying it's good, but it does have, it does have that Sean Levy feeling.

• 29:43Griffin Newman?

  You, you saying, I would tell Peter Weir, just make something else, right?

• 29:47Speaker 04

  I think so.

• 29:48Griffin Newman?

  I was watching this, this 30 minute making of thing and everyone is talking about how difficult and experience this film was.

• 29:55David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 29:56Griffin Newman?

  But they're talking about it in the window between when they have wrapped and when the movie is released. And they all clearly feel like this is going to be a historic effort. Everyone is going to talk about, you know, they're not like-

• 30:10Speaker 04

  There's no reason not to think that. He had achieved that at this point for almost 30 years straight.

• 30:14Griffin Newman?

  But this was like a four month shoot of them fighting the elements.

• 30:19Speaker 04

  Sounds good.

• 30:20Griffin Newman?

  You know, and they're all like, and, and by like day 20, the line between acting and reality is blurred. And we're feeling the real things and we're all in it together. No one has any egos. And we felt such a responsibility to tell this story to like, go through such a Herculean effort to make this movie. And then have it treated with such a shrug, you know, just like a complete kind of, it just, it doesn't exist.

• 30:48Griffin Newman?

  Ethan Hawke in that interview-

• 30:49Speaker 04

  I play this movie in Cinematrix all the time.

• 30:52Griffin Newman?

  It's a smart play.

• 30:52David Sims?

  It's a good play.

• 30:53Griffin Newman?

  Ethan Hawke had that interview that gets recirculated all the time where he said like, "Oh, my buddy Peter Weir's retired." After years of people being like, "Is Peter Weir gonna make anything again?"

• 31:02Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 31:03Griffin Newman?

  And he said, "Peter's retired and the industry kinda broke him and it stopped knowing how to make the kinda movies that he wants to make and he's good at." And also, he got broken by like, movie star egos. And the two things he cited were how difficult the time he had working with Crow on Master and Commander.

• 31:18David Sims?

  Yes.

• 31:19Griffin Newman?

  And that the other thing, was it supposed to be after this that he was gonna make Shantaram?

• 31:23David Sims?

  That certainly was. We can talk about it, I'm sure that's-

• 31:26Griffin Newman?

  That was Johnny Depp's passion project and he said, "The process of dealing with Depp in development for like, two years broke him."

• 31:31David Sims?

  Now that's interesting. I haven't heard anything about Johnny Depp being tough to deal with.

• 31:35Griffin Newman?

  And Ethan Hawke pinned it just on, the industry changed and he stopped being able to deal with A-list leading men who were no longer collaborators, who were sort of, you know, dictators, right?

• 31:44David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 31:45Griffin Newman?

  Whereas before, he had been this guy where A-list men would trust him to mold them. I also, I watched this and I'm like, "I get why he retired." To put this much into making this-

• 31:54David Sims?

  Right.

• 31:55Griffin Newman?

  And just have it treated with a shrug.

• 31:58David Sims?

  Right.

• 31:58Speaker 04

  It seems like he, from, you guys have more research hopefully than I do, which is zero, seems like he tried other things after this. He wasn't like-

• 32:06Griffin Newman?

  For a bit.

• 32:07David Sims?

  I think there was, right, there was some sort-

• 32:08Speaker 04

  On a farewell tour.

• 32:09David Sims?

  But he's now just said like, "I don't have the energy."

• 32:12Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 32:12David Sims?

  And like, it's interesting cause Master and Commander is now, a movie that was liked at the time has now become this like canonical movie. I think he appreciates that, but then there's also the kind of, the sort of melancholy of like, "I didn't get to make another one, I kinda, I wanted to," like-

• 32:27Speaker 04

  Master and Commander had like, eight Oscar nominations, right?

• 32:30David Sims?

  Ten.

• 32:31Speaker 04

  It's crazy that-

• 32:32David Sims?

  It just went up against Return of the King and it still snuck a couple of wins.

• 32:35Speaker 04

  Aside from it just not winning, but it's just crazy that that catapulted him to nothing. That makes me feel like Shantaram might have, or whatever.

• 32:43Griffin Newman?

  Shantaram.

• 32:43Speaker 04

  Shantaram. Good thing that didn't get, I mean, I think that became a TV show.

• 32:47Griffin Newman?

  It became an Apple Plus original series, of course, with Charlie Hunn.

• 32:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, we all know.

• 32:50Griffin Newman?

  It was almost Mirinayir, Peter Weir, and I think there was a third major director who almost made it with Johnny Depp and then like, 10 years later became an Apple Plus series that no one watched.

• 32:59Speaker 04

  It was a good thing we didn't have to learn how to actually say that.

• 33:01Griffin Newman?

  I just think-

• 33:02David Sims?

  Do you remember-

• 33:03Griffin Newman?

  Yes, what?

• 33:03David Sims?

  That there was a Hulu original series about Sean Penn going to Mars? In which they never actually went to Mars because in classic streaming series, you know, fashion, season one ends with them like going to go to Mars tomorrow.

• 33:17Griffin Newman?

  We've discovered a new planet in our telescope.

• 33:19David Sims?

  And then like, they're like, no one watched this, season two has been canceled. So you didn't actually even get to watch Sean Penn go to Mars?

• 33:26Griffin Newman?

  It was a Bo Willaman show, right?

• 33:28David Sims?

  Uh, yes, that's right.

• 33:29Griffin Newman?

  Yes. I, I truly forgot that existed until you mentioned it right now.

• 33:32Speaker 04

  I think that's what he was promoting when he was on Maren, saying he's retiring.

• 33:36Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 33:36Speaker 04

  And it's like, I've done, yeah, I've done everything.

• 33:38David Sims?

  Smelting his Oscars or whatever.

• 33:39Griffin Newman?

  Full time in, into books. We all love his books.

• 33:42Speaker 04

  Yeah, of course. Bob Honey Who Do Stuff.

• 33:44Griffin Newman?

  You read, both of you read Bob Honey Who Do Stuff to your daughters every night, right?

• 33:49Speaker 04

  Every day.

• 33:50Griffin Newman?

  Honey, honey, Bob Honey.

• 33:52David Sims?

  What, what are you talking about?

• 33:54Griffin Newman?

  It's real.

• 33:54Speaker 04

  Look up the cover of Bob Honey Who Do Stuff.

• 33:57Griffin Newman?

  Look up-

• 33:57David Sims?

  Bob Honey Who Do Stuff.

• 33:58Griffin Newman?

  Google Bob Honey Who Do Stuff.

• 34:00David Sims?

  I believe it's who just do stuff.

• 34:01Speaker 04

  Hang on, how do you think you spell honey? In the title of Sean Penn's novel?

• 34:05David Sims?

  Like honey?

• 34:06Griffin Newman?

  Nope.

• 34:06Speaker 04

  No, no. Think a little bit more Winnie the Pooh.

• 34:08David Sims?

  H U N N?

• 34:10Speaker 04

  You're on the right track.

• 34:11Griffin Newman?

  E E?

• 34:12Speaker 04

  I don't know, it's something like that.

• 34:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 34:14David Sims?

  I'm seeing that it's honey spelled regular. I will, so I will, I will create-

• 34:17Griffin Newman?

  That's, that's a true-

• 34:18Speaker 04

  I refuse to revise my memory of what the title is.

• 34:21Griffin Newman?

  That's a true show that doesn't exist, David, and I wanna correct myself.

• 34:24David Sims?

  As is Shantaram with Charlie Hunnam or whatever.

• 34:26Griffin Newman?

  I think my joke about the first was too kind. Season one would end with someone making the telescope.

• 34:31David Sims?

  This is for kids?

• 34:32Griffin Newman?

  Season two would end with them looking at-

• 34:33Speaker 04

  No, no, it's, it's how you introduce your kids to sophisticated political satire.

• 34:37Griffin Newman?

  This is a book for grown ass people.

• 34:41Speaker 04

  I think he's written multiple Bob Honey, maybe two.

• 34:43Griffin Newman?

  The Bob Honey Crime-

• 34:44Speaker 04

  It's like some kind of, it's not Forrest Gump-y, but it's like some kind of character who like drifts through history, I think.

• 34:50Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 34:51Speaker 04

  Everything I'm pulling is from a 10-year-old episode of WDF.

• 34:54David Sims?

  But like a Forrest Gump-esque character?

• 34:56Speaker 04

  I don't know. Yeah, sure.

• 34:58Griffin Newman?

  This was-

• 34:58Speaker 04

  And don't correct me.

• 34:59Griffin Newman?

  This was him saying like, um, done with movies, fuck them. I'm doing this full-time. I did this Hulu show. That's my final thing as an actor.

• 35:08Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 35:08Griffin Newman?

  And then he won a third Oscar and didn't show up.

• 35:10Speaker 04

  There are-

• 35:11David Sims?

  Eight actors in history with three acting Oscars. He is the eighth.

• 35:16Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 35:16David Sims?

  He won it for an incredible performance in a movie that I think will be very well remembered that won Best Picture.

• 35:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 35:23David Sims?

  And when he won, everyone was like, and he didn't show up.

• 35:26Griffin Newman?

  It being his third award and him not showing up, people will forget that he won. I think truly it will become a like, who won Best Supporting Actor that year?

• 35:34David Sims?

  And like, apart from Walter Brennan, who, God bless him, we love him.

• 35:37Griffin Newman?

  Walter Brennan.

• 35:37David Sims?

  He's the weirdest of the winners.

• 35:39Griffin Newman?

  Ingrid Bergman, Catherine Hepburn.

• 35:41David Sims?

  Yep.

• 35:42Griffin Newman?

  Jack Nicholson.

• 35:42David Sims?

  Correct.

• 35:43Griffin Newman?

  Uh, Sean Penn is five.

• 35:46Speaker 04

  Ben's friend.

• 35:48Griffin Newman?

  Ben's friend, Daniel Day-Lewis.

• 35:49David Sims?

  Yep.

• 35:49Griffin Newman?

  Meryl Streep.

• 35:50Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 35:50Griffin Newman?

  And there's one more.

• 35:52Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm. McDormand.

• 35:53David Sims?

  She's got a bit of a hard face these days.

• 35:54Griffin Newman?

  Franny McDormand.

• 35:55David Sims?

  A bit of a fix, you know, a tough stare.

• 35:58Griffin Newman?

  And she even has four Academy Awards.

• 36:00David Sims?

  No, she has three, I guess four if you count her producing.

• 36:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 36:03David Sims?

  She has three acting.

• 36:04Griffin Newman?

  She has three acting wins and a Best Picture.

• 36:06Speaker 04

  You would think Penn and Weir would have overlapped.

• 36:08Griffin Newman?

  You would.

• 36:09Speaker 04

  They kind of hit the same.

• 36:10Griffin Newman?

  You're rare, you're very.

• 36:11Speaker 04

  Hit the same stride around the same time.

• 36:13David Sims?

  Yeah, I wonder if he ever even considered him for one of those big movies.

• 36:17Speaker 04

  Something I always loved about Peter Weir, younger, watching these movies is what you just said, like, man, he really just has these like awesome men at the center every time. And they're just doing some of their best work consistently.

• 36:29David Sims?

  The crazy thing is that Brennan won three Oscars in a span of five years.

• 36:35Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 36:35David Sims?

  For playing, I mean, I haven't seen all the movies that he won Oscars for, but I assume basically doing the same shit every time, because that's what Walter Brennan always did.

• 36:42Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 36:42David Sims?

  And he was only nominated one other time. So he has a 75% track record of winning if nominated. Meryl Streep, you're like, three Oscars, yeah, 21 noms. She sucks.

• 36:51Griffin Newman?

  I don't mean to be.

• 36:52David Sims?

  She's always striking out.

• 36:53Griffin Newman?

  I don't mean to be rude.

• 36:54David Sims?

  Yes.

• 36:54Griffin Newman?

  Is there not some weird explanation for the Walter Brennan thing that the rules of the Academy changed?

• 37:00David Sims?

  Uh, well, you're thinking of, possibly, well, wasn't there a thing where he was nominated for both lead and supporting or something like?

• 37:07Speaker 04

  Ben, just pin that I tried to steer the conversation back to Peter Weir and David immediately brought it back to this trivia factoid that we're all tired of hearing at the end of Oscar season.

• 37:18David Sims?

  It is, it is true that Oscar season's over and it is kind of like, who cares?

• 37:21Speaker 04

  That I very definitely tried to turn this Sean Penn page.

• 37:23David Sims?

  Penn came up. What do you mean? We're on our great Penn run.

• 37:26Speaker 04

  But then I brought it back.

• 37:27David Sims?

  The honey thing.

• 37:29Speaker 04

  I brought it back and David, who likes things to keep going in a tangential direction, was like, hang on, we'll talk about Peter Weir in a second. Walter Brennan, who never worked with Peter Weir.

• 37:38David Sims?

  That we know of.

• 37:40Griffin Newman?

  I'm gonna, I'm gonna solve this.

• 37:41David Sims?

  I don't, I know, I feel like I know what you're talking about, Griff, but I'm not totally sure. Oh, yes. Oh, this is what it is.

• 37:48Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 37:48David Sims?

  In the early years, extras could vote.

• 37:51Griffin Newman?

  There we go.

• 37:51David Sims?

  Which makes no sense because like, what does that mean? Extras could vote?

• 37:55Griffin Newman?

  But they realized basically that he was always whipping votes from the extras.

• 37:58David Sims?

  Cause he was like a nice guy that everyone liked, so they were all like, ah, Walter Brennan.

• 38:02Griffin Newman?

  And they'd be like, he's a man of the people.

• 38:03David Sims?

  Cause there's the other thing where like, what is it? Like Betty Davis got a write-in vote. And then there's the other thing where like, someone was nominated for both lead and supporting and

• 38:11Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 38:11David Sims?

  won in support. I don't know.

• 38:12Griffin Newman?

  But that wasn't Walter Brennan.

• 38:14David Sims?

  That's not Walter Brennan.

• 38:15Griffin Newman?

  No, who was that?

• 38:16David Sims?

  I don't fucking know.

• 38:17Griffin Newman?

  Well, please find out.

• 38:17David Sims?

  It's Alex's 10th appearance on Blank Check. You're here, Alex.

• 38:21Griffin Newman?

  There was this false narrative.

• 38:22David Sims?

  You're claiming you've been banned from the show.

• 38:24Speaker 04

  Well, but at some point in the last-

• 38:25David Sims?

  You just didn't do an episode in 2025, but it's only March.

• 38:28Speaker 04

  But at some point in that year, both Emily Yoshida and I conferred that you guys had gotten too big for us.

• 38:33David Sims?

  For, for sort of the, the, you know, twin flames of Blank Check and some long-

• 38:38Speaker 04

  You had just outgrown some of your core voices.

• 38:40Griffin Newman?

  Okay, so Emily-

• 38:42Speaker 04

  In favor of heavies and famos.

• 38:43Griffin Newman?

  Excuse me.

• 38:44David Sims?

  I mean, what it really is, is you guys both left the city. I mean, not to, not to-

• 38:47Griffin Newman?

  No, no, no, no, no. There's a bigger thing here.

• 38:50David Sims?

  Okay.

• 38:50Griffin Newman?

  Okay?

• 38:50Speaker 04

  Bigger thing is you were chasing clout and fame.

• 38:53Griffin Newman?

  The bigger thing here is, the Coen Brothers series and the early Spielberg series were both long, right? Those two series basically comprised a full year. We knew we were doing Lynn Ramsey after Spielberg. Is that right on the timing?

• 39:08Speaker 04

  No.

• 39:08David Sims?

  After Spielberg?

• 39:09Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 39:10Speaker 03

  Then it's Heckerling and then it's Coens.

• 39:12Griffin Newman?

  Oh, yes. I'm sorry. That's what it is. We knew we were doing Lynn Ramsey after Coens. So we didn't book Yoshida on a Coens because we knew she had to do more of Vern Callar. The thing with you is, we have a group text called News and Deals. It is the three of us, Hitmaker Simons, David Lowry, and Sean Fantasy.

• 39:33Speaker 04

  Sean Hollywood Fantasy.

• 39:34Griffin Newman?

  Yes, Sean Hollywood Fantasy, Tim Hitmaker Simons, David, everything's bigger in Texas.

• 39:39David Sims?

  David, really lovely man, Lowry.

• 39:42Griffin Newman?

  Gentle soul, Lowry.

• 39:44David Sims?

  In a thread that's like heavy on shit talking, David's really there for like, I feel like a really more pure energy.

• 39:50Speaker 04

  I invited David to it because I was simultaneously getting a endless flurry of texts from this group text and David the day the first one battle after another trailer came out. And I was like, David, would you like to?

• 39:59David Sims?

  Let's just combine these threads.

• 40:01Griffin Newman?

  This was similarly, we had a group text with Fantasy, we had a group text with Tim. Both of them were trending towards physical media news and deal announcements. We combined them and then I had, this is maybe the single act I'm proudest of in my entire life.

• 40:15Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 40:15David Sims?

  That's just gonna be good.

• 40:16Speaker 04

  What are you gonna say?

• 40:17Griffin Newman?

  One day I say to the group, what do you think about introducing ARP to this group text?

• 40:21David Sims?

  It was important because.

• 40:23Griffin Newman?

  Things are a little too.

• 40:25David Sims?

  Right, we're all a little too aligned here. Everyone kind of agrees on everything. Like the biggest controversy is Hitmaker not liking Zodiac. Who cares? You know, we all know he's wrong.

• 40:35Griffin Newman?

  He's riled up about it. He chooses you and it's been the greatest choice.

• 40:39David Sims?

  You roll a grenade in there every other day.

• 40:41Griffin Newman?

  It's improved all of our lives. You bring us so much joy and happiness.

• 40:44Speaker 04

  I just don't have much else to do, so I can devote a lot of time and thought.

• 40:49David Sims?

  You're a busy man, or father.

• 40:50Griffin Newman?

  But very often we will give News and Deals first crack.

• 40:54Speaker 04

  That's true.

• 40:54Griffin Newman?

  If we've settled on a mini series or we're like, hey, March Madness feels like it's trending this way.

• 40:59Speaker 04

  That happened in this mini series and I said two movies and you're like, oh, that's gone already.

• 41:04David Sims?

  Peter Weir?

• 41:05Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 41:05David Sims?

  What did he say?

• 41:06Speaker 04

  The second you said we're doing Weir, I was like, I just revisited Truman Show. Like JD's doing Truman Show.

• 41:10Griffin Newman?

  When the Coens looked like they were gonna win March Madness, we throw out to you guys, what were your Coens picks? B, everyone else has a choice. You say.

• 41:19Speaker 04

  Oh great, he has it up. So this is gonna be a verbatim line.

• 41:22Griffin Newman?

  Because Yoshida brought this up to me and was like, yeah, ARP and I have been complaining that we both feel like we've been shadow banned. And I'm like, you're here doing an episode right now.

• 41:29Speaker 04

  As am I.

• 41:29Griffin Newman?

  And this is what ARP's not explaining to you. You said, "I'd request Hail Caesar," a movie that so doesn't exist it took me 20 minutes to remember.

• 41:39Speaker 04

  This is me talking.

• 41:40Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 41:40Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 41:41Griffin Newman?

  Then Sim says-

• 41:41Speaker 04

  Another great Cinematic Matrix play, because no one remembers all these people that are in the movie for one scene.

• 41:46Griffin Newman?

  No, we thought you were just making a comment about the public rudely not remembering this film.

• 41:51Speaker 04

  I was. CBS Films failed that one.

• 41:53Griffin Newman?

  That's a great art- that was Inside Lewin Davis.

• 41:56Speaker 04

  Okay, whatever.

• 41:57Griffin Newman?

  Hail Caesar was universal.

• 41:58Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 41:59Griffin Newman?

  David says, "That's a great art pick, a great film."

• 42:03Speaker 04

  And then like a month later, I was listening to some other episode and someone, David's like, "Oh, he's got a text from a friend of mine. She's gonna do Hail Caesar." And I was like, "I guess that's... there goes that."

• 42:10Griffin Newman?

  I say five-star masterpiece. You give it a thumbs down. You respond, "Another chance post-Hollow Man to talk about what a dud Brolin is to me."

• 42:19Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 42:19Griffin Newman?

  I say, "Alex, you're coming in ice cold with this shit."

• 42:23David Sims?

  You are. You were.

• 42:25Speaker 04

  I reversed course on Brolin for Weapons. Really liked him in that.

• 42:27David Sims?

  He's good in Weapons.

• 42:28Speaker 04

  But then he was in something else after that that he was bad in again. What was it? What else was he in in the back half of last year?

• 42:34David Sims?

  Uh, he was in The Running Man and Wake Up Dead Man.

• 42:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 42:37Speaker 04

  I was Wake Up Dead Man, that I was like, "This is boring."

• 42:39David Sims?

  I mean, I feel like Wake Up Dead Man, he's- he has kind of a boring role. Go ahead.

• 42:42Griffin Newman?

  Later Fantasy swinging in with his love of Buster Scruggs. You give that a thumbs down.

• 42:49Speaker 04

  Relevant for the film today, because this to me is almost as good of a last film as you guys have covered. And that is to me almost as bad of a last film as you guys have covered.

• 42:58David Sims?

  This is exactly the kind of spice and flavor-

• 43:00Griffin Newman?

  This is the spice.

• 43:01David Sims?

  That Blank Check needs.

• 43:02Speaker 04

  You said that you can see, watching this movie, that Peter Weir felt like he was ready to hang it up, which is what I felt, watching Buster Scruggs at Walter Reed, a truly dispiriting screening.

• 43:10Griffin Newman?

  Fantasy says-

• 43:10Speaker 04

  Or no, at Alice Tully.

• 43:11Griffin Newman?

  The Netflix effect makes it non-existent sadly. You go that, plus it's a gentleman's six. It is so funny to me how unsuccessful Don't Drive Away dolls are financially. I've seen neither. And then Sean-

• 43:22Speaker 04

  Still true.

• 43:22Griffin Newman?

  Sean posts a picture of Tom Waits panning for gold-

• 43:27Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 43:28Griffin Newman?

  And writes, "Alex looking for hot takes."

• 43:30David Sims?

  Yeah, solid, solid, uh, little meme there.

• 43:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 43:34David Sims?

  Little group text meme.

• 43:35Griffin Newman?

  Then Sim sends to me his breakout texts with you, one on one.

• 43:39David Sims?

  We love it.

• 43:40Speaker 04

  Oh, from like years earlier?

• 43:41David Sims?

  I think it's from years earlier, right.

• 43:42Griffin Newman?

  "The Coen Brothers are old guard with nothing new to offer. Buster Scruggs was embarrassing."

• 43:47Speaker 04

  Truly embarrassing.

• 43:49David Sims?

  I dug it up.

• 43:50Griffin Newman?

  Hell Caesar should have been the last one. It's just Coens by the numbers.

• 43:54Speaker 04

  That's right, yeah.

• 43:55David Sims?

  Kind of, kind of, when they have numbers, they're pretty good at IMO.

• 43:58Griffin Newman?

  Like, four months ago, you text us, you went Fargo sucks.

• 44:01Speaker 04

  No, I did not say it sucks.

• 44:02Griffin Newman?

  Embarrassing Francis Victorman.

• 44:03Speaker 04

  Oh, it is. That is an embarrassment. That is an embarrassing one.

• 44:06Griffin Newman?

  And then you spend six months being like, the blank check guys are big timing me, they won't have me on. You were saying every Coen Brothers thing is embarrassing.

• 44:13Speaker 04

  Uh, not everyone, just to me, like, Peter Weir is a guy. I don't think I have a movie of his in my brain that's below a three-star film.

• 44:22Griffin Newman?

  So great that we got you on for this series.

• 44:24Speaker 04

  That is true. I've wanted you to do Weir for a long time.

• 44:26Griffin Newman?

  It's perfect.

• 44:26Speaker 04

  But to me, I feel like, uh, that is a body of work.

• 44:30David Sims?

  I'm with you.

• 44:30Speaker 04

  That has some real lows for me.

• 44:32David Sims?

  I would agree that Peter Weir's basement is three stars.

• 44:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 44:35David Sims?

  Which, like, I...

• 44:36Speaker 04

  He simply can't make a bad movie, in my opinion.

• 44:39David Sims?

  No.

• 44:39Speaker 04

  Largely because he...

• 44:40David Sims?

  He did not make a bad movie.

• 44:40Speaker 04

  Changes what he's doing so much.

• 44:43David Sims?

  Sure.

• 44:43Speaker 04

  Uh, and, and because oftentimes his instincts are just, this is what's so sad to me about the, the industry failing him, as, as, as, as Mr. Hawk pointed out, and as is obvious from this movie's release and everything, like, how can we fail a guy like this?

• 44:58Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 44:59David Sims?

  Did we fail him? He had an enormously successful career.

• 45:01Speaker 04

  He did, but like, the contraction that happened in the 2010s, you know, he's like the kind of guy you picture as seen, like, some guy who's been at the company for 25 years, has been a top salesman, gets brought in, it's like, listen, we're just making some cuts and we gotta let you go. And it's like, I've been here forever. I've done so much for you. And it's like, it's not personal, we just, we just gotta kinda say goodbye. Like, we're gonna offer you an early retirement, but I still have work in me. It's like, no, I'm sorry, you just kinda have to go away. And he's someone, it's like, if even he couldn't get the means after, and this is a good movie, like, this isn't like, yikes, Tarantino's right, people really should hang it up. This has everything in it that he's good at.

• 45:43Griffin Newman?

  Yes. This is, this is a respectable final film.

• 45:45David Sims?

  Right now, I'm always saying Tarantino's right. This is the moment for that.

• 45:49Griffin Newman?

  He's right about everything.

• 45:51David Sims?

  Um...

• 45:51Griffin Newman?

  He keeps getting more right. I think he should keep talking.

• 45:53Speaker 04

  I don't see anybody selling any Tarantino was a dope shirts.

• 45:56David Sims?

  Maybe Paul Dano should sell some of his friend log. Do you think McDormand's an embarrassing win because Emily Watson should have won? Sure. Emily Watson, obviously very powerful.

• 46:05Speaker 04

  Obviously, I hate this kind of like hindsight, like, well, you know, she's gonna get two more awards. But like, she's barely in the movie. I mean, for 30 minutes.

• 46:13David Sims?

  Well, that's just crazy. I mean, you're just immediately, you're just on the crazy train. The audience is taking notice.

• 46:18Speaker 04

  If she won for supporting, I'd be like, fine, whatever. The Emily Watson performance in Breaking the Ways is, I think, one of the 10 best screen performances I have ever seen.

• 46:25David Sims?

  It's an incredible performance, but this is just silly. It's like, it's the Oscars. The movie where Emily Watson is the...

• 46:31Speaker 04

  But I cannot believe that even got nominated.

• 46:32David Sims?

  Railed constantly because Dylan Skarsgård got paralyzed. Like, the fucking insane Lars von Trier movie. It's like, the nom is the reward. Like, stop being crazy.

• 46:42Griffin Newman?

  You were also coming, you were coming in harsh on other areas of Fargo. You were coming in generally...

• 46:47Speaker 04

  My rewatch of it, I was really bored. And also like...

• 46:50David Sims?

  It's a 98-minute movie. It's a mess.

• 46:53Griffin Newman?

  I want you to understand that we don't shadow ban you from the show. Sometimes we strategically go, if you come on a Fargo episode and go, obviously, mid...

• 47:01Speaker 04

  I didn't want to come on a Fargo episode.

• 47:02Griffin Newman?

  They will rip you apart like Gladys.

• 47:04Speaker 04

  No, no, I didn't want to come on a Fargo episode. Also, at that time, I hadn't seen it in 15 years. And I'll say this. I asked, after you guys roasted me on group chat. I asked every single person I worked at Kim's video with, what do you think of the Coen brothers and Fargo? This is like, seven people I asked. Every single one of them was like, nothing. I think nothing.

• 47:26David Sims?

  This is maybe the example of...

• 47:27Speaker 04

  They were, one person was like, I haven't seen it since it came out. No interest in revisiting. I stopped watching their movies.

• 47:32Griffin Newman?

  One of the great American movies.

• 47:34Speaker 04

  One person said, the best movies for normies. One person said...

• 47:37Speaker 03

  Now, wait, hold on.

• 47:38Speaker 04

  I'm just saying, I'm just saying.

• 47:39Speaker 03

  Hold on.

• 47:40David Sims?

  This is why people hated going to fucking video stores.

• 47:43Speaker 03

  Often, were they contrarian?

• 47:46Speaker 04

  No, no.

• 47:47Speaker 03

  Snarky, incredibly...

• 47:50Speaker 04

  Open-minded, open-hearted, friendly cinema lovers.

• 47:54Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 47:55Speaker 04

  I'm just saying. It's very interesting to me.

• 47:59David Sims?

  Make strong eye contact.

• 48:00Speaker 04

  Yeah. I'm simply saying, it's very interesting to me that you can turn from one side to the other and have two 180-degree different opinions on the exact same body of work. Sure. I was hearing opinions from my old coworkers that in other contexts would be sacrilegious. I-

• 48:16David Sims?

  Right.

• 48:17Speaker 04

  And then-

• 48:17David Sims?

  I would say yes.

• 48:18Speaker 04

  You guys were saying opinions that if I brought to them, they'd be like, "Who are these fucking dorks?"

• 48:21Griffin Newman?

  I agree with you that it is interesting that different people can share, can hold different opinions. I also think if our listenership was like, "Oh, great. I can't wait for the Fargo episode."

• 48:32Speaker 04

  No Fargo. I never-

• 48:33David Sims?

  No, no, he was never gonna be. He's in Alex's defense.

• 48:35Speaker 04

  It's these later movies, Lillian Davis aside, that I found dire.

• 48:40Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I'm riding with all them.

• 48:52Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 48:52David Sims?

  Yes.

• 48:53Griffin Newman?

  Mmm.

• 48:56David Sims?

  Is that the Cine's cow?

• 48:58Griffin Newman?

  The Cine's cow is back.

• 48:59David Sims?

  Haven't heard from her in a while.

• 49:00Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, she's reactivated because she's horny for chicken fingers.

• 49:05David Sims?

  Okay.

• 49:06Griffin Newman?

  And she's excited for the streaming debut of Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma.

• 49:10David Sims?

  Wow.

• 49:11Griffin Newman?

  The cow likes chicken.

• 49:13David Sims?

  Remember cow and chicken? Let's look it up. While you tell the great listeners about the great stuff on movie.

• 49:20Griffin Newman?

  Well, MUBI is a global film company bringing great cinema to the world and to you. Curating and elevating visionary filmmaking, all handpicked, always. That's what MUBI does. Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma, one of my favorite movies of the year.

• 49:33David Sims?

  Absolutely.

• 49:34Griffin Newman?

  You can feel the rush now at home. There's a hole at the bottom of the lake where the movies come from.

• 49:40David Sims?

  That is a line in the movie.

• 49:41Griffin Newman?

  In the new movie from Jane Schombren, Past and Future Guest.

• 49:43David Sims?

  Past and Future Guest, a great filmmaker, a great podcast guest, a great friend.

• 49:48Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 49:49David Sims?

  Um, this movie rocks. It's got, of course, it stars Hannah Einbinder and Gillian Anderson.

• 49:54Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 49:55David Sims?

  You know, legends, and I tip my cap, but Zach Cherry.

• 49:57Griffin Newman?

  Performances, friend of the show-

• 49:58David Sims?

  Friend of the show Zach Cherry.

• 50:00Griffin Newman?

  Zach Cherry.

• 50:01David Sims?

  Also in it.

• 50:02Griffin Newman?

  This is true.

• 50:03David Sims?

  Such a cool movie. Won the Queer Palmit Can. If you haven't heard about this movie, I don't know what's going on with you, but like, it obviously has, it was out in theaters this summer and now it's on MUBI.

• 50:13Griffin Newman?

  Hannah Einbinder plays a filmmaker attempting to reboot the Camp Miasma franchise, trying to track down the original final girl from the first movie to make some sort of legacy sequel, who's played by Gillian Anderson, who lives at the summer camp.

• 50:27David Sims?

  At Camp Miasma, yes. And you know, and then they hang out and it's regular.

• 50:32Griffin Newman?

  What happens?

• 50:34Griffin Newman?

  It's, it's one of those Hollywood's out of ideas. No, it's very much a movie about Hollywood being out of ideas while being an example of there still being new stories to tell.

• 50:44David Sims?

  It's now streaming exclusively on MUBI and you can try MUBI free for 30 days at MUBI.com/blankcheck. That's M U B I dot com slash blank check for a whole month of great cinema for free.

• 50:56Griffin Newman?

  They got so many great movies on there to watch, but worth it for 30 days for my asthma.

• 51:01David Sims?

  Damn right.

• 51:07Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 51:07David Sims?

  Hmm.

• 51:08Griffin Newman?

  It's not cuffing season for me. It's hosi season for me. And this year, that meant finally upgrading my new mattress from Lisa.

• 51:16David Sims?

  Lisa.

• 51:17Griffin Newman?

  It's supportive, comfortable, and just what my body needs after a long day. It makes crawling into bed on a chilly fall night feel like luxury.

• 51:24David Sims?

  Yeah, I have a Lisa too. They've got a lineup of beautifully crafted mattresses tailored to how you sleep.

• 51:30Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 51:31David Sims?

  Each mattress is designed with specific sleep positions and feel preferences in mind. They've got eco-friendly materials.

• 51:37Griffin Newman?

  Maybe you hear eco-friendly and you go, oh, but I'm going to sacrifice comfort.

• 51:41David Sims?

  No.

• 51:41Griffin Newman?

  Nope.

• 51:42David Sims?

  They've been awarded best hybrid and best memory foam mattresses by New York Times' Wirecutter. They're featured by West Elm as their go-to mattress partner, and they work with local nonprofits across the US to donate thousands of mattresses each year to families in need. Over 43,000 mattresses donated to date. Go to Lisa.com for up to 30% off mattresses. Plus, get an extra $50 off with promo code blankcheck. Exclusive for our listeners. That's L E E S A dot com promo code blankcheck for up to 30% off mattresses plus an extra $50 off. Let them know we sent you in the survey after checkout. Lisa.com promo code blankcheck.

• 52:29Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 52:30David Sims?

  Yes.

• 52:30Griffin Newman?

  Shop.com is giving away $1 million in Shop Cash.

• 52:35David Sims?

  Wow. Shop has all the stores you love and lets you track every order in one spot.

• 52:40Griffin Newman?

  I love that. It's very convenient.

• 52:41David Sims?

  And now 1,000 shoppers are each going to win $1,000 in Shop Cash just in time for the holidays.

• 52:49Griffin Newman?

  You get gifts for everyone on your list, or get yourself something a little merry and bright. Find exactly what you're looking for at shop.com.

• 52:57David Sims?

  Uh, got stocking stuffers, maybe. The sickest luxury items. Cookware to kicks, toys to high tech, even tinsel and tree toppers. Type in what you're looking for to instantly search every shop at once. Okay, that's shop.com. You can just go click around, find brands you love, search across all the stores, track every order in one spot.

• 53:21Griffin Newman?

  From cult favorites to the world's biggest brands, score suite deals and checkout fast, all at shop.com. Enter to win the $1 million shop cash giveaway from now until November 1st. Just go to shop.com. There are so many ways to win. That's shop.com. Shopping designed around you. No purchase necessary. Restrictions apply. Official rules available at shop.com.

• 53:54Speaker 04

  You know what the thing is about Hail Caesar that none of you brought up?

• 53:56Griffin Newman?

  What?

• 53:57Speaker 04

  While we talk about the long walk?

• 53:59Griffin Newman?

  Fascistically muddled sense of the 1930s. You did write that in a text.

• 54:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, this drives me crazy that no one points this out. People who supposedly know what movies are. Every time they go to a different movie in that.

• 54:08David Sims?

  It's set in the 50s.

• 54:09Speaker 04

  Then why is there a fucking Esther Williams synchronized movie? They hadn't made those for 15 years.

• 54:14David Sims?

  Because it's funny. Who cares?

• 54:16Speaker 04

  I care.

• 54:17David Sims?

  Well, clearly, I mean, that is obvious.

• 54:20Speaker 04

  Nothing in.

• 54:21David Sims?

  Million Dollar Mermaid was 1952, I will say.

• 54:24Speaker 04

  That is like, that's like saying, uh, never say never again was, you know, in 1950.

• 54:29David Sims?

  I believe that's exactly what it's like saying, but it exists.

• 54:32Speaker 04

  It's not presented as like, wow, we're making one more of these. And it's just crazy to me that this movie that's supposedly steeped in Hollywood history and the fucking, the, the Ralph Fiennes thing, that is a 30s movie. He's visiting like a Reuben Mamoulian comedy of manners and then they go to like a cinema.

• 54:47David Sims?

  Bitch, but yeah, sure.

• 54:48Speaker 04

  That's also not in the 50s.

• 54:50David Sims?

  Not really.

• 54:50Speaker 04

  Maybe they still kind of exist.

• 54:52Griffin Newman?

  I'm having such a good time.

• 54:53Speaker 04

  Everything you're saying is like.

• 54:54Griffin Newman?

  The magic is back.

• 54:55Speaker 04

  These movies from the 30s coexist with these movies from the 50s in this pointless fantasia of nothingness.

• 55:00David Sims?

  I know. Nothing can be realistic like your favorite film of all time, Damien Chiselle's Babylon. Uh, another film that I think presented Hollywood exactly as it was, right? Like, that's, that's an opinion you share. You're not saying anything, so it'll carry on.

• 55:14Speaker 04

  The test, the testable work of art.

• 55:15Griffin Newman?

  Alex's body is slowly, from the toes to the top of his head, turning red. It's working up his body like a thermostat.

• 55:22David Sims?

  Um, hail Caesar. Look, you should, you should yawn this at the cone and they probably go like, okay, yeah, I get, I get so.

• 55:31Speaker 04

  But Griffin, only because Griffin said, this is a movie, you can feel the guy being like, I'm kind of ready to hang it up. And I don't feel that in this movie.

• 55:37Griffin Newman?

  No, no, no. I don't feel him saying that while make, I don't feel the movie saying that. I understand why the response to the movie would make him say that. That's the point I'm trying to make.

• 55:46Speaker 04

  Do you think he cared that much about the sort of fallout of his work after that much kind of career ups and downs?

• 55:52Griffin Newman?

  So much harder for him to get this movie made.

• 55:55David Sims?

  PW.

• 55:56Speaker 04

  Well, let's have some of the dossier.

• 55:58Griffin Newman?

  Right?

• 55:58David Sims?

  To discuss this.

• 55:59Griffin Newman?

  He had to make it in a much scrappier way.

• 56:00Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 56:01Griffin Newman?

  It barely gets released.

• 56:02Speaker 04

  Guess who stepped up to the plate?

• 56:04Griffin Newman?

  Image.

• 56:05Speaker 04

  A yellow triangle. Second National Geographic film covered on Blank Check?

• 56:10Griffin Newman?

  Well, I miss, uh, K-19 Widowmaker.

• 56:13David Sims?

  Yeah, and I would say, uh, I can't believe you missed that logo because it's long. Uh, it's a really, really long pre-roll, uh, logo, but, um, this movie really reminded me of K-19. I think it's better than K-19.

• 56:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 56:25David Sims?

  But similar kind of like, why did you think anyone was really gonna be hot for this story?

• 56:31Speaker 04

  National Geographic.

• 56:32David Sims?

  Like two movies where it's like, and then they suffered, and then they suffered some more. And let me tell you, it's true.

• 56:37Speaker 04

  They had this directive at the time of like, let's.

• 56:39Griffin Newman?

  Dry.

• 56:40David Sims?

  It's dry. Everyone's doing an accent, but they're different accents.

• 56:44Griffin Newman?

  It's, it's a lot of emotionally closed off Russians.

• 56:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, let's tell the Russian side of things. It's National Geographic's 2000s MO.

• 56:53Griffin Newman?

  And basically what, they're 10 years.

• 56:55Speaker 04

  Will you cover a third National Geographic film?

• 56:57Griffin Newman?

  What else is a National Geographic?

• 56:59Speaker 04

  And I don't remember now. It's weird. I kind of thought maybe these were the only two, but there's actually others.

• 57:03Griffin Newman?

  I'm gonna figure it out.

• 57:04David Sims?

  I will figure that out and I will crack up the dossier. Here's some other obvious ones, of course, March of the Penguins, but we're not gonna count.

• 57:10Speaker 04

  No, no, we're talking.

• 57:10David Sims?

  Let's not count the, uh.

• 57:11Speaker 04

  Narrative historical.

• 57:12Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 57:13David Sims?

  Uh, Restrepo, remember that one? That's a documentary too, though.

• 57:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 57:16David Sims?

  Uh, there's really not much. This is kind of it.

• 57:19Speaker 04

  That's why I was fascinated to see that big yellow square.

• 57:21David Sims?

  There's the Justin Chad like film, The First Grader. I think that is a drama, which is about like Kenyan education.

• 57:29Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 57:30David Sims?

  There's that movie, Amrika, remember that? Which is about like a Palestinian family moves to Chicago. These were all like good movie, you know, like, uh, you know, civic kind of movies, you know what I mean? Like about like sort of weighty issues. Uh, mostly it's documentaries.

• 57:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 57:45Speaker 04

  So this is the final National Geographic film to be covered on Blank Check.

• 57:48David Sims?

  That, I think, there is no question.

• 57:50Speaker 04

  Alright, well then it's even more exciting.

• 57:52David Sims?

  Unless we march with the Penguins.

• 57:53Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, what would that be?

• 57:55Speaker 04

  You do Penguins Patreon?

• 57:56Griffin Newman?

  We've already done both Happy Feet though.

• 57:58David Sims?

  It's true, we kind of.

• 57:59Speaker 04

  You farce at the Penguins, March of the Penguins. You march and then you farce.

• 58:06Speaker 04

  I just, I mean, perfect, perfect series.

• 58:08Griffin Newman?

  Little this, little that.

• 58:09David Sims?

  Alright, so. Following the release of Master and Commander, which Alex pointed out, got 10 Oscar nominations, one, two, and was successful, although, as I'm sure we discussed last week, was not hugely successful.

• 58:21Griffin Newman?

  Incredibly expensive.

• 58:22David Sims?

  It was very expensive and they wanted it to make more.

• 58:23Griffin Newman?

  Was basically a financial break even and you, you asking like, why didn't he immediately gain like a new wave of, of momentum from Master and Commander? I think part of it was, well, is this a series that he's gonna stay on? And then it was kind of in a place, a midpoint for a while of like, we can't decide whether or not to make more of these.

• 58:41David Sims?

  Yeah, and Crowe is like, I'm only getting more addicted to sandwiches, guys. So if you want me, you know, to fit into that vest.

• 58:48Griffin Newman?

  I'm either throwing phones or eating a whole.

• 58:51David Sims?

  Cause like Robin Hood is, which is this year, I think is 2010, right?

• 58:54Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 58:55David Sims?

  That's the last where he's like, I went back to the gym and it's like, he at least like walked through the gym.

• 58:59Griffin Newman?

  He tightened it way up.

• 59:01David Sims?

  As way up as he could.

• 59:02Griffin Newman?

  But Body of Lies is right before that. In Body of Lies, he's.

• 59:06David Sims?

  God bless.

• 59:06Griffin Newman?

  Well, it's just the character demanded.

• 59:08David Sims?

  The character's on the phone all the time, eating sandwiches, and I love sandwiches.

• 59:12Griffin Newman?

  I sent you last night in our, in our text with Sean Clements.

• 59:17David Sims?

  Oh, that fucking Crow movie. What's it called?

• 59:19Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I'm gonna send you a Crow poster. I just want your reaction on mic to this Alex Wall.

• 59:24David Sims?

  What's the film called again?

• 59:25Griffin Newman?

  Um, let me, let me just get.

• 59:26David Sims?

  All right, well, so I'll tell you. So, so yeah, so Peter Weir, you know, in between seventy-four and eighty-six, he makes eight films. In between eighty-seven and twenty, two thousand and three, he makes just five films. So he's getting, taking longer and longer to make movies, takes him seven more years to make The Way Back. Uh, but in between, here are some of the things he was attached to.

• 59:45Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 59:45David Sims?

  Because there were other projects. First is.

• 59:47Speaker 04

  I was surprised he did not have the, the beloved separate Wikipedia page of list of unmade and unrealized projects.

• 59:54Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 59:55Speaker 04

  He's a guy that should.

• 59:56Griffin Newman?

  He, he deserves that.

• 59:57David Sims?

  He has a ton. He, he, you know what? He deserves that. And if someone could get on that.

• 1:00:00Griffin Newman?

  Please, someone make it.

• 1:00:01David Sims?

  First one is The War Magician.

• 1:00:03Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:00:03David Sims?

  A Cruise Wagner at Paramount project, uh, based on a nonfiction book about a patriotic British stage magician who volunteered his illusionist abilities to help the Nazis. I mean, this sounds like.

• 1:00:15Speaker 04

  I would watch it.

• 1:00:16David Sims?

  Like Harvey Weinstein's like, let me out of prison. I, I can release that shit.

• 1:00:19Griffin Newman?

  Am I insane for thinking that Benedict Cumberbatch has tried to revive that recently? Or is there a different Benedict Cumberbatch wartime magician movie that is being made?

• 1:00:28David Sims?

  Well, obviously, he was a Doctor Strange who fought the Infinity War.

• 1:00:31Griffin Newman?

  Of course.

• 1:00:33Speaker 04

  This is what I love about Peter Weir is that there was this brand of like, well, this is a vast historical, challenging thing that would have a lot of really great roles for our finest movie stars. He should do it. And he had all these projects for years.

• 1:00:45Griffin Newman?

  Well, and like Tom Cruise, a guy it's actually surprising he never worked with because it felt like Tom Cruise was a bit checklisty at that point.

• 1:00:52David Sims?

  Yeah, I mean, I imagine there's a.

• 1:00:54Griffin Newman?

  That, a guy who you would imagine he's both meeting with and saying, what do you want to do? And also anytime he options a book, he likes throwing it to Weir.

• 1:01:02Speaker 04

  Cruise was doing that, Weir was in the kind of other key of Dead Poets and. Um, green card and fear like

• 1:01:09David Sims?

  Fearless, yeah. But I mean, but like

• 1:01:11Griffin Newman?

  But if we had just made more movies.

• 1:01:13David Sims?

  Yeah. But you know, he just, he just started taking a long time between projects. All right, look, Cruz had one, at one point been attached. At this point, he's just a producer on it.

• 1:01:24David Sims?

  Cruz Wagner split from Paramount, obviously, in 2006.

• 1:01:27Speaker 04

  Amicably, I'm sure.

• 1:01:28David Sims?

  Yeah, there was no problem.

• 1:01:30Griffin Newman?

  Checks notes here, cool and normal.

• 1:01:32David Sims?

  At that point Cruz actually reattaches to possibly starring, but we're, let's it go. Mark Forster, your best friend.

• 1:01:40Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:01:41David Sims?

  Gets attached and indeed Benedict Cumberbatch was eyed to star.

• 1:01:45Griffin Newman?

  There we go.

• 1:01:46David Sims?

  Now it is dead.

• 1:01:47Speaker 04

  The Swiss maestro himself.

• 1:01:49Griffin Newman?

  Just quick pause because I sent Alex

• 1:01:51Speaker 04

  Bear country.

• 1:01:51Griffin Newman?

  A poster image and I want you to do

• 1:01:53David Sims?

  It's called bear country.

• 1:01:54Griffin Newman?

  Your favorite blank check segment, describe a poster.

• 1:01:56Speaker 04

  Okay, so, I came back, I get to do this. So Russell Crowe is doing a yoga pose.

• 1:02:01Griffin Newman?

  Well, what's the first thing right at the top of the poster?

• 1:02:03Speaker 04

  It says, "From the director of Unhinged." Oh, that's the car movie that he made that came out that was like in theaters, like they're like

• 1:02:08David Sims?

  It was in like 30,000 theaters.

• 1:02:10Speaker 04

  May 2020, let's put this thing wide.

• 1:02:12Griffin Newman?

  It got to break the record of being the first movie to

• 1:02:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:02:14Griffin Newman?

  New release open in theaters. But, but okay, from the director of Unhinged, that's like a scrappy, fucking schlocky, like

• 1:02:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:02:20Griffin Newman?

  B-movie action film.

• 1:02:21Speaker 04

  So we have here is a guy.

• 1:02:22Griffin Newman?

  That's the tone you imagine is gonna transfer to the rest of this post.

• 1:02:25Speaker 04

  Neon pink font with a kind of rounded, uh, look that says bear country.

• 1:02:30David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:30Speaker 04

  He's doing a yoga pose in front of a pool with a palm tree with the ocean behind him. What I can only imagine is Australia.

• 1:02:37Griffin Newman?

  I would argue he's dressed like DJ Khalid.

• 1:02:39Speaker 04

  Well, I haven't gone to the clothes yet.

• 1:02:40Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:02:40Speaker 04

  Because he has on

• 1:02:41David Sims?

  Noise cancelling headphones.

• 1:02:42Speaker 04

  Noise cancelling headphones, spiky crazy hair.

• 1:02:45David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:45Speaker 04

  He's got, it's, it's all

• 1:02:46David Sims?

  Orange tinted sunglasses. You might say.

• 1:02:50Speaker 04

  A, uh, kind of like velour looking tracksuit.

• 1:02:54David Sims?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:02:54Speaker 04

  Yeah. That is orange, but

• 1:02:55Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:55David Sims?

  I would say Khalid-esque for sure, yeah.

• 1:02:57Speaker 04

  But despite the yoga pose, which conveys tranquility by his feet is a gun that

• 1:03:02David Sims?

  A handgun.

• 1:03:03Speaker 04

  That looks like it is a cartoon that was drawn onto this poster.

• 1:03:08David Sims?

  Yeah, it's not the most realistic.

• 1:03:09Griffin Newman?

  It's also just got like a couple loose bullets hanging by the gun.

• 1:03:13Speaker 04

  Teresa Palmer is listed beneath that. She's Australian.

• 1:03:15David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:16Speaker 04

  Luke Evans is listed there. He might be Australian.

• 1:03:19David Sims?

  He definitely is.

• 1:03:20Speaker 04

  Or or English.

• 1:03:21David Sims?

  Is he not? I thought he was Australian.

• 1:03:22Speaker 04

  And there's some other names. And it says with Nina Dorev.

• 1:03:25David Sims?

  What am I? What am I talking about?

• 1:03:26Speaker 04

  And Aaron Paul.

• 1:03:27Griffin Newman?

  And Aaron Paul.

• 1:03:27Speaker 04

  Not necessarily who you want with the and to excite the movie.

• 1:03:32David Sims?

  I had no offense to Aaron Paul, but right, you do not want him in your and.

• 1:03:35Speaker 04

  And then there's some lady who's probably sexy, but we can't see her.

• 1:03:38Griffin Newman?

  You can't see her.

• 1:03:39Speaker 04

  In a lounge chair on the other side of the pool, but she's blonde. So you know she's Australian.

• 1:03:43Griffin Newman?

  It might even be Teresa Palmer.

• 1:03:45Speaker 04

  It could be.

• 1:03:46David Sims?

  Very possible.

• 1:03:46Griffin Newman?

  It could be.

• 1:03:47David Sims?

  You could show me her face and I wouldn't be able to tell you.

• 1:03:49Griffin Newman?

  And I was holding a lot of Teresa Palmer stock throughout the 2010.

• 1:03:54Speaker 04

  I guess that's bear country.

• 1:03:55David Sims?

  We call those penny stocks.

• 1:03:55Griffin Newman?

  I did. We were, but I was holding.

• 1:03:58Speaker 04

  Well, while we're on that subject, while David reads these off above what Griffin just texted me is a series of unresponded to text messages where I was asking questions about gifts for Ben.

• 1:04:09Griffin Newman?

  This is a good.

• 1:04:10Speaker 04

  While Griffin has put me back and it's just worth mentioning that Griffin doesn't respond to one on one texts, but if I ask the same question in a group text, he responds literally within seconds.

• 1:04:18David Sims?

  It is. It is an interesting phenomenon.

• 1:04:20Speaker 04

  So I was trying to spare everyone else an inventory of some objects for Ben, which I will now reveal.

• 1:04:27David Sims?

  In the middle of the attaches conversation, I guess we can just bring out a gift for Ben.

• 1:04:31Griffin Newman?

  It was a clean segue.

• 1:04:31Speaker 04

  So Ben, this is for you.

• 1:04:33Speaker 03

  Oh, shit.

• 1:04:34Griffin Newman?

  Do you see? Do you see what it is? Can you make out the proper name of this? This is a vintage boxed, dare I say, really good condition. Spawn action figure from T Dog Mac. And what is the character name on here, Ben?

• 1:04:51Griffin Newman?

  Look on the side and on the top right there.

• 1:04:56Speaker 03

  Future Spawn.

• 1:04:57Griffin Newman?

  This is Spawn from the Future.

• 1:04:58David Sims?

  So is this sort of like a Spawn 2099 type situation?

• 1:05:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, but it's like a robo spawn, mecha spawn. There's a little like a sticker on the upper right hand that describes what his deal is.

• 1:05:07Speaker 03

  Part machine, part human, all spawn.

• 1:05:10Griffin Newman?

  That's very Robocop-esque.

• 1:05:12Speaker 03

  Now, it's funny you give me this, which thank you. This is awesome, Alex. I really appreciate it.

• 1:05:16Speaker 04

  I just feel like Future Spawn is in line. With your pitches for Spawn.

• 1:05:20Speaker 03

  They now have a future.

• 1:05:22Griffin Newman?

  There's a new future.

• 1:05:23Speaker 04

  Clearly, they had it all along.

• 1:05:24Speaker 03

  And I just brought it here with me, Rat City. I just read the first six issues. It's great.

• 1:05:30Speaker 04

  Talk about. Happy to give you this thing that I bought 30 years ago and immediately was like, this is gonna be worth thousands.

• 1:05:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, this is gonna pay off.

• 1:05:38Griffin Newman?

  Has anything ever sounded more like a Ben Hossley pitch than, hey, I got a great idea for a comic book. It's Spawn in the Future.

• 1:05:45Speaker 04

  Yeah, so he's like a demon from hell, right? But yes, now he's in like a robot machine.

• 1:05:49Griffin Newman?

  Right. And you're like, cool. I assume it's called Future Spawn? No, it's called Rat City. That's what you would call it.

• 1:05:56Speaker 04

  I feel like Ben's always bringing lovely gifts and I wanted to return the favor.

• 1:06:00Speaker 03

  There you go.

• 1:06:00Griffin Newman?

  Kind of you.

• 1:06:01Speaker 03

  This is so appreciated. Damn, there's some really good other toys here, too.

• 1:06:05Speaker 04

  Yeah, the line on the back promises a lot of good stuff.

• 1:06:08Griffin Newman?

  Have I finally broken Ben into becoming an action figure collector?

• 1:06:11Speaker 04

  Well, you make him sit in front of them all.

• 1:06:12Speaker 03

  Crack this guy.

• 1:06:13Griffin Newman?

  Do you see? Do you see he's got a violator on the?

• 1:06:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, no, I saw that. That's the Bendy. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't bringing you something you already had.

• 1:06:18Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:19Speaker 03

  Damn, this is great.

• 1:06:20David Sims?

  April 2004, Variety announced that.

• 1:06:22Speaker 04

  Put a picture of that in the carousel of content for this episode.

• 1:06:26David Sims?

  Here we're was attached to direct, direct an adaptation of William Gibson's novel Pattern Recognition.

• 1:06:32Speaker 04

  2004, you said?

• 1:06:33David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:06:33Speaker 04

  This is right after Master and Commander.

• 1:06:35David Sims?

  Yes, that I feel like that was a, you know, a 2003 novel by Gibson. I feel like that was also a project that got passed around a lot. He rewrote it with D.B. Weiss.

• 1:06:49Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:06:50David Sims?

  Nothing ever came of it. He said, I couldn't get the script right and pulled back out of it. I don't know. Fair enough. The major one, of course, as we already mentioned, is that in October 2004, Warner Brothers purchases the film rights to the novel Shantaram for $2 million at the urging of Johnny Depp. It's a 1,000-page book. He wanted to beat out Russell Crowe, who was also really into like that book. And now, I don't know what Depp saw in a role like this. An Australian heroin addict convicted of robbery escapes from a prison and flees to India and reinvents himself as a doctor in Bombay and gets involved in counterfeiting and smuggling and gun running, which leads him to Afghanistan, where he and a mob boss battle the Russians. That is what the book is about.

• 1:07:32Speaker 04

  I will say, as a Weir fan at the time, and a Depp fan at the time, really.

• 1:07:36David Sims?

  Yeah, for sure. A height of depth.

• 1:07:38Speaker 04

  I was truly like, let's fucking go.

• 1:07:40Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna say.

• 1:07:41Speaker 04

  This sounds so good. We're gonna shoot all over the world. It's gonna be hard as hell.

• 1:07:46Griffin Newman?

  It's gonna be like a hundred million plus budget for like an adult tent pole.

• 1:07:51Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:07:52Griffin Newman?

  And this is, Johnny Depp is so at the peak of his powers right now.

• 1:07:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:07:56Griffin Newman?

  That this isn't like, oh, fuck, Disney's agreeing to option Shantaram in order to make Jack Sparrow happy. This is Warner Brothers, a company he doesn't really do movies with.

• 1:08:07Speaker 04

  Well, until he starts committing some crimes.

• 1:08:09Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 1:08:10Speaker 04

  Both real and on screen.

• 1:08:12Griffin Newman?

  Everyone's like, truly, anything Depp wants to do, we will make and make at his requested budget level and with whatever creative team he wants.

• 1:08:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, he wants to crack open the, the window.

• 1:08:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:22Speaker 04

  Uh, yeah.

• 1:08:24David Sims?

  I mean, it would be funny if in 2004, Depp had pitched The Crimes of Grindelwald and they'd be like, what? And he's like, don't worry about it. It's gonna, we're gonna make it.

• 1:08:30Speaker 04

  This sounded great. This is all, I mean, I'm not encyclopedic. I'm not encyclopedic in the unmade projects of Weir, but this to me, it was always kinda like the great unmade one. Cause he was really at peak of his powers, even though he's probably in his 60s by now.

• 1:08:43David Sims?

  Yeah, he'd be in his like early 60s.

• 1:08:45Speaker 04

  After Truman and Master and Commander, it was like, man, this guy, he's just, he's still the best. Mosquito Coast at this point's 20 years ago and he's still got this power over movie stars and, and environments.

• 1:08:56David Sims?

  Eric Roth is brought in for a rewrite, so obviously this is being taken very seriously. It's a heavyweight screenwriter. In 2006, Weir does enter the project, um, but then apparently he and Johnny Depp were unable to get on the same page. And he decided the pairing wasn't meant to be.

• 1:09:12Griffin Newman?

  The page was, how many bottles of wine should we drink an hour?

• 1:09:16David Sims?

  Weir says, I was involved for a period. I went to India. I talked to Johnny Depp about it. It's his film. I just wasn't, you know, it wasn't the right combination.

• 1:09:23Griffin Newman?

  That's him being very diplomatic, but, but I think it's going back to what we're saying, that it used to be like, these guys would go to him with their passion projects and say, I want you to get something out of me that I don't know how to get out of myself. And now it's like, people like Depp and Crow trying to call the shots.

• 1:09:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:09:40Griffin Newman?

  And be like, no, you work for me.

• 1:09:42David Sims?

  I think Weir also at that point is a little paralyzed by having made a couple like really heavyweight movies. And just being like, well, if I'm, I want it to be really special. I want it to really speak, you know, like he's not just like, well, let me make a movie. Cause like, it's good to make a movie.

• 1:09:55Speaker 04

  Best director nominated for Master and Commander.

• 1:09:57David Sims?

  And for Truman Show.

• 1:09:59Speaker 04

  And for Truman Show, so he's two in a row.

• 1:10:00Griffin Newman?

  And for Dead Poets and Witness, is he a four?

• 1:10:03David Sims?

  It's four total, I believe. Yes, those are the four, I think.

• 1:10:05Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:06David Sims?

  He wasn't nominated for Green Card or Fearless.

• 1:10:08Griffin Newman?

  But two consecutive best picture, best director.

• 1:10:10David Sims?

  Best director nod. Truman was snubbed for picture, but he was nominated.

• 1:10:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:15David Sims?

  Obviously, yeah, again with Master and Commander, it's like, you know, he's, he's a-

• 1:10:19Speaker 04

  He's undeniable.

• 1:10:20David Sims?

  He's a six-time nominee total, because also a best picture nod for Commander and writing nod for Green Card.

• 1:10:25Speaker 04

  He's just one of the best, like, at this time, he's just undeniable, like, a totem of studio filmmaking where, at this time, the script is everything. You gotta get a great script and a great star, and there's nothing more to it than that.

• 1:10:38David Sims?

  And that was always his formula.

• 1:10:39Griffin Newman?

  I invoked it in other episodes, but it's, it's a quote that stuck with me in that same Ethan Hawke interview. He goes, "He was that rare thing which is an actual popular artist. He was like an artist of like intelligence and skill who made entertainment."

• 1:10:55Speaker 04

  It's a weird thing for Ethan Hawke to respect so much.

• 1:11:00David Sims?

  Uh, some other, uh, minor ones that sort of cross his desk, uh, the Fox 2000 project Shadow Divers.

• 1:11:08Speaker 04

  I love every part of that sentence.

• 1:11:09David Sims?

  About people discovering Hitler's lost sub.

• 1:11:12Griffin Newman?

  I, that fucking rules. Was anyone ever attached to that?

• 1:11:16David Sims?

  I, I mean, that feels like another project that I would occasionally hear about, because it's like, it would be these like nonfiction bestsellers, right?

• 1:11:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:22David Sims?

  Usually about World War II. And, you know, it's like, yeah, why, you know, they get optioned and they sort of pass it around, but no, it's never been made. So, uh, Peter Weir says, "The, the thing that changed is I no longer work with the studios," right?

• 1:11:38Speaker 04

  When is he saying this?

• 1:11:39David Sims?

  Like, uh, he's saying this in a 2012 interview, but he's saying like, "From Witness through Master and Commander, that's my studio, period."

• 1:11:46Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:46David Sims?

  "They no longer make those kinds of films. Someone from a studio said to me recently, 'We're not in that kind of business anymore.' I've watched the market change." This is all from around right after, right around when last, uh, when this movie comes out.

• 1:11:57Griffin Newman?

  When he has not yet claimed.

• 1:11:59David Sims?

  He's not retired, but he's like, "What's changing?" He says, "I watched the market change, moving towards what I would call children's programming." Okay, Peter!

• 1:12:06Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:12:07David Sims?

  "I'm surprised that even amongst acquaintances of my friends, of my children in their 30s, you revisit childhood by going to the cinema as an adult. I find that quite fascinating." I feel like when he says, "I find that quite fascinating," he means, "I don't like that," or "I think that's stupid."

• 1:12:20Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 1:12:21David Sims?

  Anyway, so, uh, he doesn't really want to make what he thinks of as a kid's movie. He wants to make a large canvas movie. Which is basically what he's been doing. So he's looking around.

• 1:12:31Speaker 04

  But that is fascinating, as this contraction happens, that he's not like, I guess my move is looking at Dead Poets, looking at a, even something like Fear, like his move isn't like, you know, I've done that really well also.

• 1:12:45David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:45Speaker 04

  I have made fairly small character dramas also.

• 1:12:48David Sims?

  Like a kind of a more widely pitched.

• 1:12:50Speaker 04

  That seems like a lane I'm in now. And I, it's not like, oh, well, I've grown out of that.

• 1:12:55David Sims?

  Sure.

• 1:12:55Speaker 04

  Even Truman Show is kind of that, even though it's fairly large movie.

• 1:12:58David Sims?

  The book he reads, that he, in classic Peter Weir fashion, which I feel like is always the case with the movies he makes, it's like, he can't stop thinking about it, he can't let it go, is this book, The Long Walk, which allegedly details a true story, although it seems like it's a very kind of like, we're not really sure, totally sure how true it is.

• 1:13:15Griffin Newman?

  Was it real? Did it happen to the guy who wrote it? Did he steal someone else's story? Was it like a folk tale?

• 1:13:20David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:13:21Griffin Newman?

  And then Weir himself has admitted that basically he wrote a fictional movie based on the account that is questionable.

• 1:13:27David Sims?

  What if you escape from a Soviet labor camp in Siberia and marched by foot through Siberia, China, the Gobi Desert, Tibet, and the Himalayas, all the way to India? And

• 1:13:37Griffin Newman?

  What if you had to walk so fucking far?

• 1:13:39David Sims?

  Yes, like, he read Anne Applebaum, my coworker Anne Applebaum, works at The Atlantic, her book Gulag. He gets very interested in the Gulag and like, you know, all this, and then The Feet of Endurance, and The Tenacity of Human Beings, and survival stories. I guess he's never really quite made that kind of a movie, but that was kind of a movie in the 90s, early, right? Like, alive.

• 1:14:02Griffin Newman?

  Peter Weir says, I've gotten really interested in Gulags, and American studio heads are salivating.

• 1:14:10Griffin Newman?

  Like, he could not be swinging further away from the interests of the studios at this moment in time.

• 1:14:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, they want, you know, Guantanamo. That's like a cool prison for us now. We don't want to see Russians in prison.

• 1:14:20David Sims?

  In 2006.

• 1:14:21Griffin Newman?

  And any Guantanamo-related filming, this was an era where they were all hit and big at the box office. People wanted to see movies about.

• 1:14:27Speaker 04

  Like, Peter, are you interested in imprisoning men from the Middle East? Or just Russians?

• 1:14:32Griffin Newman?

  Because we'll keep greenlighting those, despite audiences telling us, please stop.

• 1:14:37David Sims?

  Now, I can't, I will mispronounce the name of the author of this book. Slavimir Roich, I'm not sure.

• 1:14:43Speaker 04

  I think that's correct.

• 1:14:44David Sims?

  Uh, but BBC Radio 4 in 2006 had attempted to verify his account. They walked away being like, this is likely not true.

• 1:14:52Griffin Newman?

  That's offensive also that they walked away, because that's kind of like hitting them where it hurts.

• 1:14:56David Sims?

  He was a prisoner in the Gulag. We can't find evidence that he escaped, possibly someone else escaped and he's telling their story, something like that. Uh, so Weir gets jumpy and is kind of like, okay, well, fucking like, I don't want to do it then if it's like, you know, controversial. But then he finds that three men had done a walk like this.

• 1:15:15Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:15:16David Sims?

  And they do more research and so he decides to kind of re-fictionalize it. He want, that's why he retitles the movie, not because of Stephen King.

• 1:15:23Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:15:24David Sims?

  Because he's like, I don't want to be presented really as like a straight adaptation of this book that's a little, you know, muddy. Uh, he goes and talks to these people.

• 1:15:32Griffin Newman?

  The one guy-

• 1:15:33David Sims?

  He meets this guy Glinsky, Wilton Glinsky, who lives in Cornwall.

• 1:15:37Griffin Newman?

  Who he said basically was like his first major hire and was the primary consultant on the movie. This making of thing on the Blu-ray has a lot of him talking to all the actors about how to do everything and what it physically felt like.

• 1:15:51Speaker 04

  Come on, guys, one foot in front of the other. You know the deal.

• 1:15:53Griffin Newman?

  But basically, yeah, this guy is like a survivalist.

• 1:15:57David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:15:58Griffin Newman?

  Who decided to like, it'd be an interesting challenge to see if we can do the thing with, from this book. Did it with a group of guys. And then he basically writes a fictional movie based on this guy's accounts of what the emotional experience was like.

• 1:16:12David Sims?

  Right. Uh, he meets other people who had maybe trekked through the Himalayas. But, you know, he's, he's coming to it as truthful as he can. He also hired an Applebaum. I had no, I should have emailed Anne. I mean, she's a bigger shot than me, but she does work at The Atlantic and I've been on many a Zoom with her.

• 1:16:33Griffin Newman?

  Is she in the Slack? Can you like?

• 1:16:34David Sims?

  She's in Slack, yeah, I could probably-

• 1:16:36Griffin Newman?

  Could you ask her right now, like, hey, anything you want to tell us about Gulags? Quick takes on Gulags?

• 1:16:42Speaker 04

  She's on the Gulag beat for The Atlantic, you're saying?

• 1:16:44David Sims?

  Well, she, she writes about like political oppression in Eastern Europe by and large, yes. Writes a lot about Russia right now.

• 1:16:50Griffin Newman?

  She does man the Gulag desk.

• 1:16:52David Sims?

  I really, honestly cannot be flippant about this.

• 1:16:56Griffin Newman?

  I'm not being flippant.

• 1:16:57Speaker 04

  I think our joke is more that what she's doing sounds very serious. And I like the idea of someone talking about political oppression in Eastern Europe and you being like, so here's who has three Oscars and why.

• 1:17:08David Sims?

  Anne says.

• 1:17:10Speaker 04

  David, I wrote the book on the Gulag.

• 1:17:12David Sims?

  Anne says that Peter.

• 1:17:13Speaker 04

  Please stop sending me memes in the Slack.

• 1:17:16David Sims?

  Used them as a sounding board. You know, and then she, she and other professors direct them to survivors and all that.

• 1:17:24David Sims?

  Look, the way back, the, what, what you're also hearing in my like accounting of all this is this took years. Like this is.

• 1:17:31Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:17:31David Sims?

  His process just seems so slow because he's so meticulous about researching.

• 1:17:35Speaker 04

  But that also used to be allowed. That also used to be forgivable for these filmmakers that prioritized like authenticity, research, verisimilitude in their storytelling. It used to be like, you're vaguely being paid to develop this while you do research for two years. And I'm sure Master and Commander had a similar kind of heavy lift of like approaching the time period.

• 1:17:57Griffin Newman?

  We also talked about.

• 1:17:58David Sims?

  Yeah, I think absolutely.

• 1:18:00Griffin Newman?

  On the Truman Show episode, but like because Carrie's dance card is so full, he gets two and a half years to prep that movie while he waits for him to run through his other contractual obligations. And like when movies have major budgets like this and people go, why did it cost this much? Sometimes like those are major factors and those are things that studios refuse to spend money on now, I would say, basically is like, we'll let you work for like a year and a half with like a small staff to just figure out how you're going to approach this.

• 1:18:30Speaker 04

  Yeah. And he really did the most with that kind of thing.

• 1:18:33Griffin Newman?

  And that's the kind of thing where if you had a list actors attached, they would grant you that because they were like, well, if it's Mel Gibson, if it's Harrison Ford, if it's Russell Crowe, we think we will make back that investment.

• 1:18:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:18:44David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:18:45Griffin Newman?

  The money we spend on your research.

• 1:18:47Speaker 04

  But the thing is.

• 1:18:48Griffin Newman?

  Will be repaid opening weekend.

• 1:18:49Speaker 04

  What I lament that is obviously dead and gone that he represents is like, whether they knew it or not. Almost every time, these were forever movies.

• 1:18:58Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 1:18:58Speaker 04

  Like, obviously, Year of Living Dangerously is not like, you know, a basic cable classic, but buying, you know, these movies last forever.

• 1:19:05Griffin Newman?

  Master Commander is a great example of that, where I'm just like certain that movie has gone into profit many times over now. At the time of release, it was seen as a, you know, break.

• 1:19:13Speaker 04

  And even like Dead Poets, just becoming like what it is and...

• 1:19:17Griffin Newman?

  But that was a major hit at the time and then has just become like an enduring...

• 1:19:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, but these are forever movies. Like, he really just had this instinct of making something that wouldn't age at all.

• 1:19:25Griffin Newman?

  But that was not the way they were thinking at that time. And you also imagine if Peter Weir's like, "Cool, I'm gonna like, not rush and take my time to develop this movie." Every six months that he spends working on this film, the chances of this getting made in any traditional way are like cut in half.

• 1:19:43David Sims?

  Also, like, this only gets more old, out of fashion.

• 1:19:47Griffin Newman?

  That's what I'm saying.

• 1:19:47David Sims?

  Yeah, it's just like...

• 1:19:48Griffin Newman?

  With each passing year, it's like you're losing the last development exec at each studio who would maybe greenlight something with this and have the power to do so.

• 1:19:56David Sims?

  No studio is making this. Instead, it's funded by exclusive media group Spitfire Pictures, Image Nation Entertainment, which is the film division of Abu Dhabi, and National Geographic.

• 1:20:08Speaker 04

  Image Nation is still very active.

• 1:20:09David Sims?

  Yeah, it is. But none of these are obviously like of interest.

• 1:20:12Speaker 04

  They pay for a lot of Shudder movies.

• 1:20:14David Sims?

  Uh...

• 1:20:14Speaker 04

  They're very, you'll see that logo a lot.

• 1:20:16David Sims?

  Uh, no, I know the logo very well. It's a very...

• 1:20:19Speaker 04

  I know the logo.

• 1:20:20David Sims?

  It's, it's, and I think it's a very tasteful logo.

• 1:20:23Griffin Newman?

  You have it tattooed on your chest.

• 1:20:23David Sims?

  Yeah, that would be weird. Uh, so...

• 1:20:25Speaker 04

  But that's when, that's when shit gets very depressing for me of this generation or this level of filmmaker where you see the independent cobbled together financing from all the people who are probably in jail now for one reason or another for...

• 1:20:37Griffin Newman?

  The red granites of the world.

• 1:20:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, financial crimes in their own country. And just the idea that he's going hat in hand to the Middle East trying to get $5 million for a chunk of his, uh, his epic. This is just really bad when this starts happening.

• 1:20:51Griffin Newman?

  I mean, but you asking are what?

• 1:20:52Speaker 04

  Because we sit here in the, um, shambles of Rokey. The collapsing nature of being able to support things that are just obviously of interest to to audiences.

• 1:21:01David Sims?

  I haven't done a deep dive on Roque.

• 1:21:03Speaker 04

  Yeah. Well, we keep sending you the links.

• 1:21:05David Sims?

  I know.

• 1:21:05Speaker 04

  I don't know what's holding you up.

• 1:21:06David Sims?

  I looked at one of the articles, but like, it does seem like they were like, we think there's a market for this stuff that's not really getting picked up at film festivals right now. And then they're like, huh, it turns out there's not a huge market. There might be a reason a lot of this stuff's not getting picked up.

• 1:21:18Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, Roque distributor that has like-

• 1:21:20David Sims?

  They did Dead Man's Wire, right?

• 1:21:22Griffin Newman?

  Right. Basically, like, formed a year ago, where like, we got a lot of financing and there's more product than there are distributors these days. There's stuff getting left at the table at festivals, and also, there's not enough stuff being put in the theaters. We'll buy these movies, and we'll back them fully, and we'll overpay, because we know we basically need to pay a tax on being so new-

• 1:21:46Speaker 04

  Of course.

• 1:21:47Griffin Newman?

  -that filmmakers are wary to trust that we'll support their film properly.

• 1:21:51Speaker 04

  What they forgot is when you do that, you have to fail for like, two years.

• 1:21:54Griffin Newman?

  Right. And instead, they failed on one movie and are now insolvent.

• 1:21:57Speaker 04

  Well, obviously.

• 1:21:58Griffin Newman?

  And there are like, five other movies they've bought that are now like, are we ever coming out?

• 1:22:01Speaker 04

  I sent the best, the best triptych of images to illuminate this narrative. But New Market-

• 1:22:10Griffin Newman?

  The Duff.

• 1:22:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:22:12Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:12Speaker 04

  Thirty minutes later, out of business.

• 1:22:14Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:22:14Speaker 04

  But-

• 1:22:15Griffin Newman?

  But this would have-

• 1:22:15Speaker 04

  New Market is, to me, like, seeing that logo, looking it up, this is their penultimate movie.

• 1:22:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:22Speaker 04

  They're out of business.

• 1:22:23Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:23Speaker 04

  Probably when this movie's coming out.

• 1:22:25Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:22:25Speaker 04

  Essentially. And this is just super depressing.

• 1:22:28Griffin Newman?

  Yes. And this is, I mean-

• 1:22:29Speaker 04

  Their final, do you know what, did you look up New Market?

• 1:22:32Griffin Newman?

  I'm gonna look it up.

• 1:22:32Speaker 04

  The New Market chronology? Because their first film, much like National Geographic's, another film you've covered.

• 1:22:37David Sims?

  Memento?

• 1:22:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:22:38Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:38David Sims?

  I mean, that's what I-

• 1:22:39Speaker 04

  So they have this like, ten year miracle run, that ends basically with this, followed by the Joseph Gordon Levitt, uh, heavy metal movie, Hesher.

• 1:22:46Griffin Newman?

  Oh, right.

• 1:22:46Speaker 04

  And then they're done.

• 1:22:47Griffin Newman?

  Because am I mistaken that they were a production company, and they couldn't find a buyer for Memento, and Bob Burney was like, fuck it, I'm gonna figure out how to release this ourselves?

• 1:22:55Speaker 04

  What we now call a black bear.

• 1:22:57Griffin Newman?

  Yes, it's a bit of a black bear.

• 1:22:59Speaker 04

  Can't find a buyer for the rifles if I'm Zaya King? Fuck it.

• 1:23:02Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:23:02Speaker 04

  We'll release it ourselves. We'll show you guys how much money there is in beekeeping thrillers.

• 1:23:06Griffin Newman?

  They were primarily financier, production company, but then they have this run of fucking Memento, Donnie Darko, Real Woman Have Curves.

• 1:23:14David Sims?

  Donnie Darko was a giant bomb, but Real Woman Have Curves, I mean, Whale Rider was a good sleeper hit.

• 1:23:19Griffin Newman?

  And then Passion of the Christ is the most successful independent film in history.

• 1:23:23Speaker 04

  They probably, yeah, they probably didn't have a very favorable split on that with Mel.

• 1:23:27Griffin Newman?

  No, Mel took home the lion's share, but it is crazy that they released Passion of the Christ. They successfully got that movie to like record breaking numbers, that records that still hold, and seven years later, they were done.

• 1:23:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, no, they're a major player in this mid aughts boom time of kind of like big, small movies.

• 1:23:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, but they could like last four years of struggle, whereas like Roque can't survive one movie. And if The Way Back screened at TIFF last year, Roque would have been the only place that offered.

• 1:23:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, or it's like the Eden, Ron Howard's movie that's like kind of a similar Peter. That's kind of, I like that movie. I don't know if you guys saw it.

• 1:24:04Griffin Newman?

  I haven't seen it.

• 1:24:05David Sims?

  I did not care for that movie at all.

• 1:24:06Speaker 04

  I think we can all agree it's very strong and, but that is to me like.

• 1:24:11David Sims?

  That was released by Vertical.

• 1:24:13Speaker 04

  Yes, but that is the state of the Peter Weir type of movie now, is that it's like, why did this person make this? What were they thinking? Who on earth would release this? And then it comes out and everyone's like, what is this?

• 1:24:24Griffin Newman?

  Well, and no, to your earlier point where you're like, why wouldn't at this inflection point in the industry, Weir pivot back to something like Dead Poets Society that is easier to make?

• 1:24:34Speaker 04

  He could have made three more of those.

• 1:24:35Griffin Newman?

  Right, because it's like, that movie had a budget that maybe a studio wouldn't give him, you know, in 2005.

• 1:24:40David Sims?

  He doesn't want to do that anymore. He says, I want to work on a big canvas. Like, I'm not interested. Yeah.

• 1:24:44Griffin Newman?

  Like, right, you could more easily make a cheaper version of Dead Poets Society than you can make a cheap version of The Way Back. But I do think there's almost like a lifestyle creep, a like scale creep.

• 1:24:55Speaker 04

  You're saying Peter Weir is ballin', like he needs the money?

• 1:24:58Griffin Newman?

  It's beyond that. I think these guys get addicted to the challenge of how difficult it is to mount these big productions, especially.

• 1:25:04Speaker 04

  But that's the thing, like.

• 1:25:05Griffin Newman?

  If you're successful at doing it, you know how to do it and like maintain the story thread within it and like, hold on to dramatic, you know, and artistic integrity, then I think it's hard for you to scale down. Like Ridley Scott is a weird.

• 1:25:17Speaker 04

  I thought a lot about Ridley Scott.

• 1:25:19Griffin Newman?

  Exception who will just throw in a like fucking Goodyear.

• 1:25:22Speaker 04

  I thought about Ridley Scott with this movie a lot because they're very similar in a lot of ways. In the scope of what they do and in their kind of hit ratio of forever movies. But for some reason Ridley Scott just figured out how to never slow down.

• 1:25:36David Sims?

  Well, he works fast and the movies he makes can be a little sloppy as a result, although often they really are good. He also, you know, works with big stars, which I feel like Peter Weir is clearly getting sick of. Eden, I think, is a really good comp for The Way Back because that movie is also really dreary and about survival and like, you know, it's these people who went to live on an island and it's like, it's based on a true story and they're like, what do you think happened when in 1931, like a bunch of randos decided to live on like a random island in the Galapagos Islands? I'm like, did it go badly? And they're like, oh, yeah, it did. We were hoping to surprise you with that. Like, you know what I mean? Where they're like 50 minutes in, they're like, it's starting to get worse. And I was like, yeah, I called that from the beginning. Jude Law and Sydney Sweeney, we're not going to recreate society.

• 1:26:21Speaker 04

  Sure, but that movie was also like, here are five of the hottest people and they're gonna be doing some sexy stuff.

• 1:26:26David Sims?

  They don't do sex stuff.

• 1:26:27Speaker 04

  Vanessa Kirby needed to restart society. Sydney Sweeney showed up. They didn't want her there.

• 1:26:31David Sims?

  Cause in trouble. No, that's the thing. You're just like, it's like, oh, it's Ana Darmas and Sydney Sweeney. And you're like, oh, do they look good? It's like, no, they're like starving and like their faces are dirty.

• 1:26:40Speaker 04

  God, David's really throwing some shade on these beautiful actresses here. I thought it was solid to a fault.

• 1:26:47David Sims?

  This is the same with Nuremberg where everyone's like, oh, Nuremberg was good, including our friend Alex.

• 1:26:51Speaker 04

  Our number two. Second best movie of the year.

• 1:26:52David Sims?

  And I'm like, no, you guys are forgetting how good these movies used to be. That movie stunk. Like, it's no good and it's all gray and like, it's, ugh, anyway.

• 1:27:01Speaker 04

  Forgetting how good they used to be.

• 1:27:03David Sims?

  The Way Back. There's always a temptation, a temptation to cast a nationality, Weir says, but that gets impractical. Sure. He didn't want all American. He didn't want all English guys doing accents. So he wants a mix of guys. He sure gets a mix of guys.

• 1:27:16Speaker 04

  When Ed Harris started talking, were you guys like, that's cool. He's just not doing a voice before they say?

• 1:27:21David Sims?

  I did briefly go like, oh, so right, are we just doing, but then like Colin is like, oh, he's American. Colin's speaking Russian. Like, he's not doing, and I'm like, okay, so we're not doing that. We're not doing everyone using their accents.

• 1:27:31Speaker 04

  Cause I'm going into the movie originally thinking, I'm gonna hear Ed Harris full Irish brogue. For two hours and 10 minutes. And then the movie starts and I'm like, Ed Harris could be playing any nationality. I didn't know it got this cold in Ireland. Truly. I'm looking at this, I'm like, the potato, that's why the potatoes died. They froze. Looks like the Arctic Circle here. This is crazy.

• 1:27:51David Sims?

  So Ed Harris is, obviously, has already worked with Peter Weir.

• 1:27:55Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:55David Sims?

  They respect each other.

• 1:27:56Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:56David Sims?

  And so that's an easy decision there.

• 1:27:58Speaker 04

  Another weird superpower is kind of keeping people, not forever, but a couple, a couple Fords, couple Mells.

• 1:28:03Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 1:28:04Speaker 04

  Couple, couple Eds.

• 1:28:05Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Interesting that Ed-

• 1:28:06David Sims?

  Want to have a couple Eds.

• 1:28:07Griffin Newman?

  But Ed's like his, like, in the pocket, supporting MVP both times.

• 1:28:11David Sims?

  Yeah, for sure, for sure.

• 1:28:13Griffin Newman?

  Um, it, it might not surprise you guys to hear that in this, uh, making of a special feature, Ed Harris seemed really activated by how difficult this shoot was. And I'm not being-

• 1:28:22David Sims?

  No, he was really into, I think he's also just into Peter Weir, cause Peter Weir's similarly intense with like,

• 1:28:28Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:28:28David Sims?

  "Let's fucking figure out like what bread they ate," or whatever, you know what I mean? Like, "Let's do deep research."

• 1:28:33Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:28:34David Sims?

  Get into the character.

• 1:28:35Speaker 04

  Ed Harris, he's obviously in the news lately with, uh, arm candy for Amy Madigan.

• 1:28:39Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:40Speaker 04

  He's just the fucking best.

• 1:28:41David Sims?

  He does rock.

• 1:28:42Speaker 04

  Just like, one of these, like, has been, he's never, ever been bad.

• 1:28:46Griffin Newman?

  Truly.

• 1:28:47Speaker 04

  And has never really been given credit for how consistently awesome he has been.

• 1:28:51David Sims?

  That's a great question.

• 1:28:52Speaker 04

  Forever.

• 1:28:53Griffin Newman?

  What's his worst performance?

• 1:28:55David Sims?

  What is Ed Harris in where you're like, cause he does a ton of movies where you're like, "Okay, he's phoning this in."

• 1:28:58Speaker 04

  But that is, to me, I stopped watching Westworld, but that's the point.

• 1:29:02Griffin Newman?

  No, but I loved him in Westworld.

• 1:29:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, but then he started giving interviews where he's like, "Well, I'm phoning it in now because they changed the character and I don't like this new character."

• 1:29:08David Sims?

  Right. It is true that they kind of like twist, "By the way, now you're a robot," and he said he was sick of it. He was still good.

• 1:29:14Speaker 04

  He was like, "I signed up to play the man in black. Now I'm the man in white. I'm phoning it in now."

• 1:29:19Griffin Newman?

  But like, I'm looking through here-

• 1:29:20David Sims?

  Ian McKellen said that once upon a time.

• 1:29:22Griffin Newman?

  I don't think I have seen an embarrassing Ed Harris performance.

• 1:29:26Speaker 04

  Oh, he couldn't embarrass himself if he tried.

• 1:29:27Griffin Newman?

  Like, I haven't seen Radio, but I imagine he acquits himself better than anyone else in the cast of that film.

• 1:29:34David Sims?

  That's pretty close, though, because I haven't seen that either.

• 1:29:37Griffin Newman?

  It's embarrassing that he's in it.

• 1:29:39David Sims?

  Sure. I would say that's also the era, um, the sort of post, he gets a bunch of nom's era.

• 1:29:44Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:45David Sims?

  That early 2000s where you kind of feel like him trying to sniff for an Oscar a little too hard.

• 1:29:49Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 1:29:50Speaker 04

  Well, Pollock, he got so close.

• 1:29:51David Sims?

  Well, but then, see, Beautiful Mind, which he's good in.

• 1:29:55Griffin Newman?

  He's really good in.

• 1:29:56David Sims?

  Enemy at the Gates, where he's like-

• 1:29:57Speaker 04

  Which rocks. I was thinking of Enemy at the Gates during this, we're talking about great Russian- War narrative.

• 1:30:02David Sims?

  The Hours, which like is an undeserved Oscar nom. He's not like bad in it, but that that's my least favorite part of The Hours. And it's on a movie I like.

• 1:30:09Griffin Newman?

  That's when he felt like he's in auto nom territory and it's inevitable. He's gonna get one so soon.

• 1:30:14David Sims?

  You know what I've never seen is The Human Stain, uh, which is a book I love.

• 1:30:18Speaker 04

  Right. I've never seen that either.

• 1:30:19David Sims?

  But, and he has, he has the most interesting part in it. If it's the part from the book that I remember, but I know, you know, that was forgotten.

• 1:30:27Griffin Newman?

  But I also think he's starting to get into this era where like, um, Beautiful Mind, for whatever reason, I was like driven to re-watch the trailer recently. Cause I was like, is my memory correct about this? That the marketing of the movie was just selling the fucking CIA shit so hard.

• 1:30:41David Sims?

  He's the other name on the poster.

• 1:30:43Griffin Newman?

  Exactly. The poster is Russell Crowe, Ed Harris, and the trailer.

• 1:30:47David Sims?

  It's Russell Crowe, a beautiful mind, Ed Harris. It's a tiny little Ed Harris.

• 1:30:51Griffin Newman?

  But like Jennifer Connelly's barely in the trailer. They obviously don't show the Paul Bettany stuff. Like that movie was sold.

• 1:30:56Speaker 04

  But they can't. He's not real. Right. They can't put him in the trailer. He doesn't exist.

• 1:30:59Griffin Newman?

  That movie sold itself as a badass story about a cool CIA analyst. And so the trailer and all the marketing was so Ed Harris heavy. And then you watch the movie and you're like, oh, Ed Harris is the red herring. And I feel like, uh, history of violence is the same thing.

• 1:31:15Speaker 04

  Well, he's obviously remarkable in that.

• 1:31:17David Sims?

  He's so good in that movie.

• 1:31:18Griffin Newman?

  But like, you're like, this should have been an Oscar nominee. You're like, well, but then William Hurt comes in at the end.

• 1:31:23David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:23Griffin Newman?

  Right. The same kind of thing happens with Jennifer Connelly and like, huh.

• 1:31:27Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 1:31:27Griffin Newman?

  There's, he's used in a way that's making it easy to take him for granted because you don't walk out of the movie thinking about his character.

• 1:31:35David Sims?

  We haven't even started talking about the movie.

• 1:31:36Speaker 04

  Have you guys re-watched Pollock recently?

• 1:31:37Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 1:31:37David Sims?

  No, I actually been meaning to.

• 1:31:39Speaker 04

  So good.

• 1:31:40David Sims?

  Yeah, Pollock rocks.

• 1:31:40Speaker 04

  It is such a good movie. He's so good in it. Well, he directed Appaloosa. Did you ever see that?

• 1:31:46David Sims?

  He wrote Appaloosa. Did he direct it too?

• 1:31:48Griffin Newman?

  I think he directed it.

• 1:31:49David Sims?

  Let me look it up.

• 1:31:49Griffin Newman?

  Didn't, did he direct the Beethoven movie?

• 1:31:52David Sims?

  Uh, Beethoven second?

• 1:31:53Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're about to say the same thing.

• 1:31:57Griffin Newman?

  I'm trying to tee you up here.

• 1:31:58David Sims?

  Oh, yeah. So you had written, directed, written and directed.

• 1:32:01Speaker 04

  I saw Appaloosa.

• 1:32:02David Sims?

  Appaloosa. Did you see Appalo? I've never seen Appaloosa.

• 1:32:05Speaker 04

  Do love a modern western.

• 1:32:06David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:32:07Speaker 04

  It's very solid. It feels like he kinda wanted to make like a.

• 1:32:10David Sims?

  I always confuse it with Hidalgo because they both have Vigo and they both have names where you're like, huh?

• 1:32:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Agnesca Holland did the.

• 1:32:17Speaker 04

  Appaloosa's a, um, a place and Hidalgo's a horse.

• 1:32:20Griffin Newman?

  Correct.

• 1:32:21David Sims?

  Yeah. But those are the only two movies he directed.

• 1:32:23Speaker 04

  It's interesting. He hasn't done more of that. He's just awesome.

• 1:32:25David Sims?

  I interviewed him and he was so scary, as I brought up many times on this podcast.

• 1:32:28Griffin Newman?

  Jim Sturgess makes a comment in the special feature saying like, I always pitied the P A who had to go up to Ed Harris and tell him we were, cameras were ready.

• 1:32:37Speaker 04

  Pity the fool.

• 1:32:37Griffin Newman?

  He pities the fool.

• 1:32:39David Sims?

  Okay, so Jim Sturgess.

• 1:32:40Speaker 04

  See him in To Kill a Mockingbird or something?

• 1:32:42David Sims?

  Yes, I interviewed him for To Kill a Mockingbird. That was why I interviewed him. He was good.

• 1:32:46Speaker 04

  You can't act like talking about Ed Harris isn't talking about this movie.

• 1:32:48Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, can I, can I bring up the Ed Harris stuff relevant to this movie? I wanna say, finish, finish your anecdote.

• 1:32:53David Sims?

  No, no, what? Go ahead.

• 1:32:54Griffin Newman?

  No, I'm sorry. You interviewed Ed Harris?

• 1:32:56David Sims?

  No, it's fine. What, what were you gonna say?

• 1:32:58Speaker 04

  He wants to talk Sturgess.

• 1:32:59David Sims?

  What were you gonna say? What was the Ed Harris thing?

• 1:33:01Griffin Newman?

  He's got a lot of Sturgess things. No, that he was like, he likes the good burn so much that they talked about, they built a set for the woods where they could control the elements just in case, like, uh, you know, the, the scheduling didn't line up. They tried to shoot most of this movie chronologically. So they had a large indoor wood set that they could redress and have a snow machine or have sand or whatever the fuck. And Ed Harris would like get to set every day and he'd be like, Peter, come on, let's just go out there. Let's just go out there and do it. If it's snowing, we'll wake all these guys up at two o'clock in the morning. Everyone would do it. That he like really wanted to be in pain.

• 1:33:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, he's the best. He was good in Love Lies Bleeding also.

• 1:33:42Griffin Newman?

  He's great in Love Lies.

• 1:33:43David Sims?

  He's great in Love Lies Bleeding.

• 1:33:44Speaker 04

  He's good. He's a guy who's now, Deval.

• 1:33:46David Sims?

  The only problem with Love Lies Bleeding is he's like, I'm your dad. And I'm like, you're like 78 years old.

• 1:33:51Griffin Newman?

  He's so cool.

• 1:33:52David Sims?

  But it doesn't really matter.

• 1:33:53Speaker 04

  It's like Deval when we were saying after he died. It's just like, this guy just was awesome forever.

• 1:33:58David Sims?

  Deval was awesome forever. And also was a guy where everyone was like, yeah, but he's like, kind of scary and a pain in the ass. And you're like, yeah, well, I don't give a shit. Like, it's so rough. He has such an intense amount of integrity for the craft of acting.

• 1:34:08Griffin Newman?

  Yes. The other Ed Harris anecdote was that they, he was like, you know, they, they were saying that when they'd be setting up, Ed Harris would like wander off like a hundred miles away from where everyone else was.

• 1:34:21David Sims?

  Far walk.

• 1:34:21Griffin Newman?

  And just stand by himself. And he was like, it's great being in nature. You're in these places where no one is and you can just-

• 1:34:27David Sims?

  Kind of sounds like Clint Eastwood.

• 1:34:28Griffin Newman?

  You can really hear things.

• 1:34:29David Sims?

  Well, we are comparing to Clint Eastwood. Says like, I think he has rid of a Clint thing. Yeah.

• 1:34:33Griffin Newman?

  He was like, this is the privilege of being away from all the noise and the cacophony. And you can actually listen to nature. Except to make a movie and there's always 140 fucking people yapping about.

• 1:34:45David Sims?

  Sorry, Ed.

• 1:34:45Griffin Newman?

  And then Jim Sturgess is like, so one day Ed Harris, like the P A comes over and Ed Harris just starts screaming, can everyone be quiet for five minutes? We need to connect to the land before we film. And then everyone's saying like, and he was right. And it was incredible how different the next take was. Like this is all the stuff in the interviews.

• 1:35:06David Sims?

  Sure.

• 1:35:06Griffin Newman?

  That felt very Suicide Squad tattoo.

• 1:35:09David Sims?

  Yeah, like then in the way back, which of course I assume at this point has been nominated for 10 more Oscars.

• 1:35:14Griffin Newman?

  Beyond that, it's like, do you know that like Vincent D'Onofrio gained 60 pounds for Full Metal Jacket? Like everyone assumes they're telling the stories that will go down in history about the commitment to the craft and the struggle in this movie.

• 1:35:35Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:35:35David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:36Griffin Newman?

  This episode is brought to you by X Y Z Films and the acclaimed new documentary Capturing Bigfoot.

• 1:35:41David Sims?

  Hmm.

• 1:35:42Griffin Newman?

  On October 20th, 1967, Roger Patterson captured 59 seconds of film showing a creature walking through the Northern California woods. I wonder if you can log that on Letterboxd?

• 1:35:53David Sims?

  It is an iconic video.

• 1:35:54Griffin Newman?

  Footage that became the most analyzed and debated in history. 59 years later, a reel of 16 millimeter film discovered in a safe changes everything. Capturing Bigfoot reveals the untold story behind the world's greatest mystery, told for the first time by Patterson's own son and the people who were there. This is a story about family legacy, broken friendships, and how far people will go to- Protect a secret.

• 1:36:17David Sims?

  Of course, you got the classic, what they call Patterson Gimlin film everyone knows of Bigfoot out in the woods, like the famous Bigfoot picture. This has other stuff shot by him that no one's ever seen. That's what makes this movie different.

• 1:36:28Griffin Newman?

  But we're also talking brand new 4K scans of the original film taken from the Patterson family archives that some historians have called the best rendering of the footage ever seen.

• 1:36:37David Sims?

  I feel like we've all seen that footage as like grainy.

• 1:36:40Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:36:40David Sims?

  You know, that you see, you know, whatever you see in a documentary for two seconds. But this is restoring it and making it look much more clear.

• 1:36:47Griffin Newman?

  There's also a companion podcast, the Capturing Bigfoot Podcast, which goes deeper into the legend and lore of Bigfoot and the Patterson Gimlin film, featuring weekly episodes with experts in cryptozoology, urban legends and filmmaking.

• 1:37:01David Sims?

  I'm something of an expert in cryptozoology.

• 1:37:03Griffin Newman?

  Well, of course, yes, but that's more of a hobby.

• 1:37:06David Sims?

  Yeah, this podcast, Capturing Bigfoot Podcast is hosted by the director of the film, Mark Evans, and it's available for free on YouTube and Spotify with exclusive episodes and content available on Patreon to members of the Capturing Bigfoot Society.

• 1:37:22Griffin Newman?

  Uh, Capturing Bigfoot is now available to rent or own on Amazon Prime Video. Learn more about Capturing Bigfoot at capturingbigfoot.com.

• 1:37:38Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 1:37:39David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:37:40Griffin Newman?

  People cut the cord, means the death of the repeat, the rerun. But where, where do repeats still exist? In your closet.

• 1:37:48David Sims?

  Uh, the sweater that goes with everything, Griffin. The tee you somehow always reach for first.

• 1:37:53Griffin Newman?

  It's, it's, we know the feeling.

• 1:37:55David Sims?

  Those are the pieces that make getting dressed easy. That's what Quince does best.

• 1:37:59Griffin Newman?

  Quince.

• 1:37:59David Sims?

  This is true for me, I will say, I go to Quince. I buy a thing like a polo shirt, a sweater, whatever. And I'm like, oh, I like that. Guess I'll get a bunch more because now that's what I'm going to put on.

• 1:38:10Griffin Newman?

  Quince focuses on high quality wardrobe staples made with premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton and merino wool. The styles are timeless, versatile and designed to become the dependable pieces you reach for day after day.

• 1:38:24David Sims?

  Love it. They got those 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters. Those start at just $60.

• 1:38:29Griffin Newman?

  I love those.

• 1:38:29David Sims?

  Giving you the softness and quality you'd expect from a luxury brand without that luxury price tag. And look, it's starting to get chillier. You're going to need layers, right? How about you just do Quince for every layer, huh?

• 1:38:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:43David Sims?

  Jacket, sweater, shirt.

• 1:38:44Griffin Newman?

  David, you know what I love?

• 1:38:46David Sims?

  What?

• 1:38:46Griffin Newman?

  The ultimate commuter pants.

• 1:38:47David Sims?

  Oh.

• 1:38:48Griffin Newman?

  Cause I'm commuting constantly.

• 1:38:51David Sims?

  Beep beep.

• 1:38:51Griffin Newman?

  Yep, that's me. David, I like these. They're just clean. They're comfortable. They got the right amount of pockets.

• 1:38:57David Sims?

  Wow. Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers, or go to quince.com, get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know. It was blank check. It's the best way to support the show.

• 1:39:23Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:39:24David Sims?

  Yes?

• 1:39:25Griffin Newman?

  He lurks in shadow. He slips into dreams. He casts no reflection. Audible presents Bram Stoker's Dracula, a new full cast audio thriller starring Ella Purnell as Mina Harker, Jonathan Bailey as Dracula, and an A-list cast, including Maggie Gyllenhaal as Van Helsing, Amy Lou Wood as Lucy, David Johnson as Dr. Seward, and many more. That is an all-star cast.

• 1:39:45David Sims?

  Yeah, this new full cast thriller locks Mina Harker in a battle of minds with the Count. When Mina's fiance, Jonathan Harker, Louis Partridge, vanishes in Transylvania, Mina pieces together letters, diary entries, and chilling testimony to hunt the predator stalking those she loves, only to discover Dracula's already hunting her.

• 1:40:05Griffin Newman?

  Joined by the enigmatic Van Helsing, Mina and a small fearless band race against time to stop this ancient terror using her intellect, her resolve, and a gift for drawing the unseen lines between clues. Mina may just hold the key to bring down the Count if he hasn't already found his way inside her mind.

• 1:40:21David Sims?

  Featuring a haunting original score by Elon Eschery and a spatial dolby Atmos sound design, Audible's Dracula invites you to welcome literature's most shadowy figure into your home. Feel the terror of being hunted and the thrill of the hunt. Don't miss this year's best new audio thriller, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Audible's new full cast original adaptation, written by Robin Ahearn, now on Audible. Listen to the darkness. Go to audible.com/listen to Dracula.

• 1:40:58David Sims?

  Jim Sturgis, ascendant, as we said, possibly. Weir says he saw across the universe. Okay. If you say so. You're questioning whether he saw it? Doesn't really feel like something he'd run to.

• 1:41:10Griffin Newman?

  Probably likes the Beatles.

• 1:41:11David Sims?

  Yeah, maybe, right. Uh, he thought he had a quality. And then he said in meeting him, he has a very interesting manner. He's got a kindness to him. Uh, was keen to not have a typical hero. I'm willing to believe that Peter Weir feels this way. My whole thing with Jim Sturgis is I'm like, he never has read as much of anything to me.

• 1:41:29Speaker 04

  Even watching the movie.

• 1:41:30David Sims?

  He's fine. He's like an adequate looking guy who's fine.

• 1:41:33Speaker 04

  He blends in with like these other five guys in the movie, even though you know he's the lead. There's no doubt that at this time, Weir is told like, this is a guy that you really want to put in the center of the movie.

• 1:41:42David Sims?

  And probably like, you know, he'll do it. Like, right? He'll fucking do four months in Bulgaria for you.

• 1:41:47Griffin Newman?

  He wants to do it. He wants to be like, I'm, I'm getting like the real serious actor heavy lift shit. You also, you talk about this phenomenon all the time, Art, but like, the guy who is bankable, who you can get a green light for any project with this guy for like exactly two weeks. You know, where Hollywood's just like, we think if we invest in this guy now, two years from now, he will be worth five times as much as we paid. So he is like a go picture, green light activator. And it's a guy who either has like hits that you can't credit to him, or hasn't had a hit yet, but the charisma is so strong in movies that didn't make money.

• 1:42:28David Sims?

  But this is what I don't understand.

• 1:42:31David Sims?

  So that's the, okay, but we must remember.

• 1:42:33Speaker 04

  What Weir kind of wants here clearly is like Mel Gibson in Gallipoli.

• 1:42:36David Sims?

  Yeah, sure. I want to be finding someone with a bit of a, who's young, but has a little bit of earth to him or something. But like Across the Universe was a colossal buck. It was incredibly expensive. Then in 2008, he's in The Other Berlin Girl, which is a movie that I think like made its budget back and did fine, but was really poorly received and.

• 1:42:54Speaker 04

  I do not, I, I don't even remember him in that.

• 1:42:56David Sims?

  He's the, he's the fucking.

• 1:42:58Speaker 04

  He's not on the poster. Isn't the poster Bana?

• 1:43:00David Sims?

  Well, cause Bana's doing this while girls are thinking. He's, he's Ambulance brother.

• 1:43:05Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna say, he's the other Berlin guy.

• 1:43:07David Sims?

  He is the other Berlin guy.

• 1:43:08Griffin Newman?

  But Across the Universe.

• 1:43:09Speaker 04

  Sort of the, the Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are dead of the other Berlin franchise.

• 1:43:15Griffin Newman?

  He was a Julie Tamar discoveries. This is Amy Pascal era Sony. Across the Universe is delayed for a long time. And Amy Pascal loved like discovering stars and like keeping them in the stable and betting on them. So they threw him onto 21, which is also Sony.

• 1:43:31David Sims?

  And he's the face of that movie? Like he's a front center on the poster.

• 1:43:35Griffin Newman?

  And that movie is a hit.

• 1:43:37David Sims?

  Yeah, it's a solid hit.

• 1:43:38Speaker 04

  They let Spacey be Frank in that movie. There's only one reason you make the money, let him be Frank.

• 1:43:42David Sims?

  Um, and so that movie has made money, like it made, uh, like 80 mil domestic. Like it was like a solid. And after that, I mean, I assume we're getting close to when this movie starts to be made. But there's Crossing Over, AKA Woke Crash.

• 1:43:57Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:43:57David Sims?

  Uh, which, which went nowhere.

• 1:43:59Griffin Newman?

  That was also delayed for years.

• 1:44:00David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:44:01Griffin Newman?

  Because Sean Penn was in it and he demanded they cut him out of it. There was a whole plot line with Sean Penn where he didn't like the politics of the final movie. And he said, he somehow had the power to get his whole story chunk, uh, removed.

• 1:44:14Speaker 04

  Bob, Bob, honey, do stuff.

• 1:44:16David Sims?

  He was in the film, uh, Heartless, directed by the great Philip Ridley, which I've never seen, which is sort of like the last time Red Ridley made a movie. This year, obviously has the insane one-two punch of way back in Legend of the Guardians, the Isles of Gahool.

• 1:44:28Griffin Newman?

  He's the main voice in Gahool.

• 1:44:29David Sims?

  Right. I mean, so, I mean, at this point, he might, his agent is basically just imagining like how big, how big a vault will I need for the gold coins I'm going to be making off this guy?

• 1:44:38Griffin Newman?

  And then One Day with Anne Hathaway and Cloud Atlas are like the last two movies of what feel like the things that he got on after 21.

• 1:44:46David Sims?

  Cloud Atlas is one of my favorite movies and it's one of those things where you're like, oh, right. And Jim Sturgess.

• 1:44:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:51David Sims?

  You know, like all the other guys, you're like, cool. And then he's there too.

• 1:44:54Griffin Newman?

  Cause then it's five years of movies you haven't heard. And then like Dean Devlin tries to make him the hero at the center of Geo Storm. And then it goes back into movies you've never heard of.

• 1:45:02David Sims?

  I think he's done some TV.

• 1:45:04Griffin Newman?

  Has he?

• 1:45:05Speaker 04

  No way, no way to know.

• 1:45:06David Sims?

  There kind of is no way to know, but he was the star of Feed the Beast.

• 1:45:10Griffin Newman?

  Of course.

• 1:45:11David Sims?

  Uh, on AMC. And then he was the star of Home Before Dark.

• 1:45:15Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:45:15David Sims?

  On Apple TV with Brooklyn Prince.

• 1:45:18Griffin Newman?

  Of course.

• 1:45:19David Sims?

  And then he was the star of, uh, Jesus, Mixtape, which premiered on Binge.

• 1:45:25Griffin Newman?

  Why are you saying things we all know?

• 1:45:27David Sims?

  The fuck is going on?

• 1:45:28Griffin Newman?

  You're wasting airtime.

• 1:45:30David Sims?

  Okay. So he cast Jim Sturgess, like that sounds great.

• 1:45:32Speaker 04

  It just feels very, yeah, like Griffin says, it's like, if you need a guy of this age, he's, I'm sure 10 people passed on this movie.

• 1:45:39Griffin Newman?

  Right. But like 10 years earlier, it's, or not even like five years earlier, it's, it's Ewan McGregor, or it's Colin Farrell, or it's, you know.

• 1:45:46Speaker 04

  Jalen Hall.

• 1:45:47Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:47David Sims?

  With Farrell, as we often will hear about Farrell, I feel like they meet and Peter Beer was like. He's really fucking fun to talk to and hang out with. He had the, like, I was not going in thinking this was his part. He walked out with the part.

• 1:45:58Griffin Newman?

  He's relishing. It feels like this opportunity.

• 1:46:00Speaker 04

  How close is this to Eastern Promises? In terms of art.

• 1:46:03David Sims?

  I suppose it's 07, maybe?

• 1:46:04Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:46:05Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it is.

• 1:46:05David Sims?

  Yeah, 07.

• 1:46:06Speaker 04

  Really?

• 1:46:06Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:06Speaker 04

  I thought it was like 9 or 10.

• 1:46:08Griffin Newman?

  It's 7.

• 1:46:08Speaker 04

  Okay, so tolerance for like tattooed Russian convicts is high.

• 1:46:12Griffin Newman?

  Through the roof.

• 1:46:13David Sims?

  Cue score is immense.

• 1:46:14Griffin Newman?

  The public is demanding it. They're angry every time they show up in a theater and that kind of guy doesn't show up on screen.

• 1:46:19David Sims?

  Where's the guy with like a weird knife that he talks to?

• 1:46:22Speaker 04

  This performance I found very subtle and moving.

• 1:46:26David Sims?

  Oh, yeah?

• 1:46:27Speaker 04

  Ben?

• 1:46:28David Sims?

  I do, I fucking love, what I love about the way back.

• 1:46:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:31David Sims?

  Is that you're like, okay, then they're all gonna die. And Weir's like, no, actually, only a couple. And some of them will just kind of stop walking for other reasons.

• 1:46:38Griffin Newman?

  They're just like, you know what? I'm tapping out.

• 1:46:40David Sims?

  Yeah, Farrell's just like, ah, Mongolia. I fucking love Stalin, though.

• 1:46:44Griffin Newman?

  I was like actually bummed he didn't get a big dramatic death scene.

• 1:46:47David Sims?

  Or just a big dramatic anything.

• 1:46:49Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:49Speaker 04

  Ben, this is a tattooed crazy convict whose best friend is a knife.

• 1:46:53David Sims?

  He calls it a knife.

• 1:46:55Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:55Speaker 04

  What did you think of this part of the movie and the general dryness of this movie?

• 1:47:00Speaker 03

  Well, it was a subtle performance.

• 1:47:03Speaker 04

  Best friend is a knife.

• 1:47:04Speaker 03

  His best friend is a knife. You know, it's like one of the few objects he has left.

• 1:47:08Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:09Speaker 03

  So of course I understand why it's so important to him. Reminding him of, you know, before he became.

• 1:47:15David Sims?

  I mean.

• 1:47:15Speaker 03

  A Gulag prisoner.

• 1:47:17David Sims?

  If Farrell wasn't going big in this movie, it would be tough. Because like, you know, everyone else is pretty low key in this movie.

• 1:47:23Griffin Newman?

  Farrell getting the and in this movie, it starts, immediately Farrell has the juice and I'm like, ugh, I'm gonna hate it when he's out at the end of the first act.

• 1:47:32David Sims?

  Right, right.

• 1:47:32Griffin Newman?

  Because he's so front loaded that the only reason he would get the and is if he has an early exit.

• 1:47:37David Sims?

  And instead it's no Mark Strong exits in the first act and Farrell exits in the second act.

• 1:47:42Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:47:43Speaker 03

  Okay, but Russian prison tattoos are fucking awesome. And it was definitely something that went across my desk at one point in my life.

• 1:47:53Speaker 04

  There was like that book that was everywhere. It was like a Urban Outfitters on the counter book of Russian tattoos. That's why you have those diamonds on your kneecaps.

• 1:48:00Speaker 03

  Right, well, of course.

• 1:48:01David Sims?

  Uh, Saoirse Ronan, I mean, there's no, you don't need to explain casting her.

• 1:48:05Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:06David Sims?

  But as Peter Weir says, she's. Got an old soul. She's, you know, so talented, blah, blah. I mean, like, obviously, you fucking cast her.

• 1:48:12Griffin Newman?

  Here was my experience watching this movie last night. You see her, her, uh, just her frame off in the distance, right? The guys see someone walking towards them. And I was like, oh, my God, yes, here we go, Saoirse. Oh, no, wait. This is one of those movies where she's still a child.

• 1:48:26David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:48:27Griffin Newman?

  Just immediately was like, oh, right. She's a little kid in this.

• 1:48:29David Sims?

  Yeah, I mean, she's probably like fourteen or fifteen.

• 1:48:30Speaker 04

  I think there's a Peggy Siegel, Jeffrey Epstein email to that same, that same effect.

• 1:48:34Griffin Newman?

  Almost definitely.

• 1:48:36David Sims?

  She would have been about fifteen or sixteen when she made it.

• 1:48:37Griffin Newman?

  Really?

• 1:48:38David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:39Griffin Newman?

  Okay. Yeah, she's fifteen. Yeah.

• 1:48:41Speaker 04

  When's Atona? Isn't Atona?

• 1:48:42Griffin Newman?

  Atona's oh seven.

• 1:48:43David Sims?

  Your favorite, the year you can't remember, clearly.

• 1:48:46Griffin Newman?

  And then Lovely Bones is oh eight and City of Ember is oh nine?

• 1:48:49Speaker 04

  Well, everyone knows that.

• 1:48:50Griffin Newman?

  Everyone knows that.

• 1:48:50David Sims?

  I haven't checked in with the City of Ember recently.

• 1:48:54Griffin Newman?

  Going great.

• 1:48:55David Sims?

  So this film was shot in Bulgaria and Morocco, some shooting in India, I think, right for the end. Uh, so the Bulgarian forest became the Siberian forest. Crazy. Morocco is the Gobi Desert. Crazy. Okay, cool. Um, they weren't actually going to be able to film in the real Gobi Desert or Russia because of problems that would come up with doing that. Uh, Bulgaria obviously has like old Soviet era studios. They're being used now. I mean, this is how you make the fucking any movie these days.

• 1:49:21Griffin Newman?

  Sure. Yeah.

• 1:49:23David Sims?

  And, uh, they, he had to shoot on location. It was an advantage visually. It's a advantage psychologically. Uh, I wanted to create true emotion for the audience to connect with these people. I mean, you know, they're all, it's what you're talking about, Griffin. It's like they're all talking about this movie with so much integrity and so seriously. And it was so fucking hard to make it. And they're all giving these interviews, I assume, because these all interviews are all from January 2011, being like, but it was all worth it to make the way back.

• 1:49:53Griffin Newman?

  I just want the listener to know that ARP has entered the bathroom.

• 1:49:58Griffin Newman?

  We just need to quickly, I think, give some space to make sure no toilets are broken, no oops are loudly uttered. I just wanna, I just, we're a little bit on edge until we hear the flush, right? Just knowing the history of ARP in this bathroom.

• 1:50:13David Sims?

  Um.

• 1:50:15Griffin Newman?

  Uh, I was going to-

• 1:50:16David Sims?

  Trying to find if there's any other, you know. There's nothing else that's like really that interesting about how they made this movie to me, honestly.

• 1:50:25Griffin Newman?

  It, it is-

• 1:50:26David Sims?

  They shot on location, it was really hard.

• 1:50:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, Weir kept saying, uh, he had this running bit and the making of thing about how he had to, uh, approach casting the locations like he was casting actors. Because they couldn't film in most of the real places that they walked through. So then it's like, which country is gonna double for which other country? But this movie truly like, had four months of filming. Across multiple continents.

• 1:50:55David Sims?

  Right, right. And then the film exits production and doesn't have a distributor.

• 1:51:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:01David Sims?

  Like, they can't find a regi- now, it is like, it's post-recession, I guess?

• 1:51:05Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:06David Sims?

  Like, that's what Weir is saying?

• 1:51:08Griffin Newman?

  Okay, we're hearing a flush, we're hearing a flush, all good so far.

• 1:51:13David Sims?

  Okay, the seat is down.

• 1:51:14Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:51:16David Sims?

  But, aft- like, it basically takes until they play at the Telluride Film Festival-

• 1:51:21Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:51:22David Sims?

  And Newmarket signs on, so that's in September 2010.

• 1:51:25Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:51:25David Sims?

  So like, it really was like, touch and go if this was even gonna get released in 2010, I guess.

• 1:51:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, and I'm sure you remember, it was just on all these lists of like, and maybe this is a chance for like, an end Harris career? There wasn't like a focus to a campaign-

• 1:51:41David Sims?

  Colin comeback, Harris career caper, Peter Weir usually gets nods, yeah.

• 1:51:44Griffin Newman?

  There's a Peter Weir movie that many people haven't seen, but like, it might be able to score in a few categories. And then looking through it, it's like, it basically got zero precursor noms anywhere, not even critics groups, and then just kinda got the surprise makeup nomination.

• 1:51:57Speaker 04

  You pointed out, like, both publicly and privately, that even by this time, the strategy of like, the Oscar hopeful movie comes out December 25th was just kind of cooked.

• 1:52:06Griffin Newman?

  It's a nightmare.

• 1:52:07Speaker 04

  You, even then, you couldn't-

• 1:52:08Griffin Newman?

  You couldn't do it.

• 1:52:10Speaker 04

  Put it in there that late, especially with like a distributor that probably like at that point, just one person sitting on the floor in an empty office answering the phone.

• 1:52:17David Sims?

  Correct. Right, right. It's like if you're gonna do that, you need to push like incredibly major campaign to get it like in in front of everyone. In this movie, it's like.

• 1:52:25Speaker 03

  No, but they walk. Their skin got so dry and people were like, uh huh.

• 1:52:28Speaker 04

  Ben, I mean, you like the dryness, right? One of the one of the drier movies.

• 1:52:32Speaker 03

  It's very dry.

• 1:52:34Speaker 04

  Cause you're probably, cause you're watching Mosquito Coast, you're like, this is damp and muggy. I don't like this.

• 1:52:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, it looked really unpleasant. Way too buggy.

• 1:52:42Speaker 04

  Except for the mosquito part of this movie, which is fucked up.

• 1:52:44Speaker 03

  It's so fucked up. I have to say that it looked unpleasant, being in the desert.

• 1:52:51David Sims?

  So you figured walking across the goby desert by yourself with no possessions would be easy, but actually it seems like pretty shitty.

• 1:52:58Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:52:59Speaker 04

  Now, Ben, you were saying that you ran out of your lozenges that you're fixated on now. Have you considered sucking on pebbles?

• 1:53:05Speaker 03

  Hot pebbles?

• 1:53:07Speaker 04

  Not just any pebble.

• 1:53:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:53:08Speaker 04

  It'll keep your mouth satisfied.

• 1:53:10Griffin Newman?

  Get a little moisture out of it.

• 1:53:11Speaker 04

  You don't have to keep buying them. You can just find them and carry them around in your pocket.

• 1:53:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, you save money.

• 1:53:15Speaker 03

  Less sugar intake too, by far.

• 1:53:18Griffin Newman?

  I kept thinking.

• 1:53:18David Sims?

  You know, pebbles have almost no sugar. It's actually crazy we don't eat them all the time.

• 1:53:22Speaker 04

  Wouldn't surprise people if Ben came in one day saying like, you know what I've started doing is sucking on rocks.

• 1:53:26David Sims?

  I think I'd be a little alarmed.

• 1:53:28Speaker 04

  I didn't say you'd be, wouldn't be alarmed. It says you wouldn't be surprised.

• 1:53:31Griffin Newman?

  And then we find out he's selling bags of rocks.

• 1:53:33Speaker 03

  I've become a rock influencer. It's my new diet trick.

• 1:53:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, rock sucking.

• 1:53:37Speaker 03

  Suck on rocks.

• 1:53:37Griffin Newman?

  Um, I kept thinking.

• 1:53:39Speaker 04

  I mean, everyone in this movie is shedding the pounds.

• 1:53:41Griffin Newman?

  That's true.

• 1:53:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:53:42Griffin Newman?

  They're looking true.

• 1:53:42David Sims?

  It'd be funny if like Gustav Sarsgaard kept getting fatter and like, how are you doing this? Like, there's one guy on the.

• 1:53:48Griffin Newman?

  He's got a stash of Fluffernuggets sandwiches.

• 1:53:51David Sims?

  Yeah. I actually found a cotton candy machine. I might have told you guys.

• 1:53:55Griffin Newman?

  That's always a good bit.

• 1:53:56Speaker 04

  David, did you overall like this movie?

• 1:53:59Speaker 03

  I think this movie's pretty good. Yes, I said.

• 1:54:00David Sims?

  Like, I was basically like dreading watching it a little bit. And certainly, there are parts of it that are that are sad. And I was sad when people died and so on and so forth. But like the sort of procedural, I like, I just felt like it wasn't too heavy on the like revenant's style. This was so punishing.

• 1:54:20Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 1:54:21David Sims?

  You must be punished as they were punished, right?

• 1:54:23Griffin Newman?

  I have this thought many times while watching the film. Like, I definitely prefer this to The Revenant because it's not doing that. It's not like shoving your face into the dog shit.

• 1:54:33David Sims?

  Yeah, like, and many a true story type movie can do that. Like, don't you understand like how bad this was? And I'm like, yes, I'm a fucking intelligent person.

• 1:54:41Speaker 04

  But I never thought this movie was that, just because it was at a time where that wasn't really in vogue of like, the point of this movie is a miserable experience.

• 1:54:49David Sims?

  But my other fear, of course, was there's gonna be kind of treacly of this sort of like, oh, the human spirit, it endures, which it doesn't mean it's bad at all.

• 1:54:56Griffin Newman?

  It's not that at all.

• 1:54:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, the end is truly like, alright, see you guys.

• 1:54:59David Sims?

  Instead, it has like lovely little moments that I like of dialogue and like, you know, character.

• 1:55:04Speaker 04

  There's so much stuff in the middle of the movie where like, just his eye is so great. Like, his, some of the, like, this is a guy, Peter Weir. You know he's making people wait around to get a 10-second shot at sunset.

• 1:55:14Griffin Newman?

  Totally.

• 1:55:15Speaker 04

  You know he's making everyone stand in one place for 45 minutes until the sun is perfect for a shot that serves no narrative purpose.

• 1:55:21Griffin Newman?

  And the shot is worth it. It doesn't feel like it's indulgence, right? It doesn't feel like it's sort of him self-stylizing.

• 1:55:27Speaker 04

  And that Harris is there like shadow boxing, being like, this is what we're here for.

• 1:55:30David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:31Speaker 04

  Like, just wait in the hot setting sun.

• 1:55:33David Sims?

  I feel like everyone's on board in this way, right? Like, barrels, like, yes, this is what I want to be doing, Sir Sherman.

• 1:55:38Griffin Newman?

  They like the focus, they like the discipline of it.

• 1:55:41Speaker 04

  Do you like, like, survival, like-

• 1:55:44David Sims?

  That's what I was gonna ask these two.

• 1:55:45Speaker 04

  Prison break movies. Cause you're talking about The Revenant, which doesn't occur to me at all. I'm watching this thinking like Papillon, Runaway Train.

• 1:55:51David Sims?

  Sure.

• 1:55:52Speaker 04

  I'm thinking of like people who break out of jail and the movie is like, if you don't keep moving, you will get caught and you will die.

• 1:55:58David Sims?

  Cause you guys famously are outdoorsy people, love hiking. So I was wondering how you related to that aspect.

• 1:56:04Griffin Newman?

  I mean, I simply would not do this.

• 1:56:06Speaker 04

  That's not what I asked.

• 1:56:07David Sims?

  Would you survive?

• 1:56:08Griffin Newman?

  If I'm in the movie way back at minute five, I eat a bowl of bullets. I just swallow them.

• 1:56:15Speaker 04

  I did.

• 1:56:15Griffin Newman?

  I'm in the Gulag and I'm just like.

• 1:56:17David Sims?

  Saying to Forky like, I think by this point I'm dead. By this point, I'm definitely dead. Like dead here, dead here.

• 1:56:22Speaker 04

  I think Griffin would do well in the Gulag. I don't think you'd want to leave.

• 1:56:26Griffin Newman?

  That's actually not a bad take.

• 1:56:28Speaker 04

  Guys being like, hey, I drew like a naked lady on a piece of paper, you know, three cigarettes, please.

• 1:56:32Griffin Newman?

  Three hots and a cot?

• 1:56:34David Sims?

  I don't think they got a lot of hots or cots. It was pretty rough there.

• 1:56:38Griffin Newman?

  One cold in a floor?

• 1:56:39David Sims?

  Yeah, it's kind of more than that. One and a half colds in a floor.

• 1:56:43Griffin Newman?

  I do like a mattress. So that was, that's maybe where I'd be struggling, but I do think I'd make friends.

• 1:56:47David Sims?

  I'm imagining you showing up to the Gulag and they're like, what's your name? And you're like, just FYI, I do like a mattress.

• 1:56:53Speaker 04

  I feel like Griffin's.

• 1:56:55David Sims?

  You can put that in my file.

• 1:56:56Speaker 04

  His role in the way back is kind of Rob Schneider in Judge Dredd where you're just walking across the wasteland and everyone's like, this guy is still talking.

• 1:57:03Griffin Newman?

  That's the meanest thing you've ever said to me.

• 1:57:05Speaker 04

  If you were in the way back, not, not in real life, but if.

• 1:57:08Griffin Newman?

  I think I'd be.

• 1:57:09Speaker 04

  If it was life or death, I think that would be the vibe you bring.

• 1:57:12Griffin Newman?

  I think I'd be at the midpoint between that and Mark Strong.

• 1:57:16Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:57:16Griffin Newman?

  Right? Where it's like, this guy doesn't really want to escape.

• 1:57:19David Sims?

  Right. I like that conception of his character.

• 1:57:21Speaker 04

  You're that guy.

• 1:57:22David Sims?

  Right. It's like he talks.

• 1:57:23Griffin Newman?

  That's the Mark Strong.

• 1:57:24David Sims?

  Right. He talks about escaping as a way to kind of get through the days.

• 1:57:28Speaker 04

  Mr. Burns when it's the fighting hell or the flying hellfish flashback and he wakes up on the cot and they're like, hey, you're not dead.

• 1:57:34Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:57:34David Sims?

  Pat, I would just to your, like Papillon's a movie I find a smidgen, it's a bit of a slog. It's got cool stuff. Runaway Train I like because one, it's on a train.

• 1:57:44Speaker 04

  Well, that's true.

• 1:57:45David Sims?

  And two, that movie is bananas.

• 1:57:47Speaker 04

  Cold.

• 1:57:47David Sims?

  Like it is cold, but I mean, like that's something where Jon Voight was like bigger and the director was like, uh huh. And Jon Voight's like, what if I went even bigger? The director's like, uh huh. Like, and that just kept going and going.

• 1:57:57Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:58David Sims?

  And Eric Roberts, he's insane in that movie. Have you seen Runaway Train?

• 1:58:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:58:01Speaker 04

  These movies are more alike to me, cause this is a World War II movie, but not really. This is why.

• 1:58:07David Sims?

  Very not, barely at all.

• 1:58:09Speaker 04

  But it fits into our at home syllabus of World War II, but um, even rewatching it, it's interesting because the Russian.

• 1:58:18Speaker 04

  The Russian experience of World War II was entirely inscrutable to Americans. You're never taught it. It's not part of the history. I mean, it is, but it's not part of the history you learn. And the average person couldn't describe even vaguely what Russia was doing during World War II, because they're both like-

• 1:58:32David Sims?

  Average American.

• 1:58:33Speaker 04

  The average, well, yes, not the average human on earth, but like, it is very hard to understand.

• 1:58:37David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:38Speaker 04

  And this movie is that, but it also-

• 1:58:41David Sims?

  Sort of.

• 1:58:42Speaker 04

  I mean, well, I mean, literally, partially, but you know, it's a World War II movie in spirit, but it has no combat-

• 1:58:49David Sims?

  It's not about the Eastern Front, and these are all enemies of the Soviet Union.

• 1:58:52Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:58:53David Sims?

  Which is why they're in the Gulag.

• 1:58:54Speaker 04

  But you know who else was enemies of the Soviet Union?

• 1:58:56David Sims?

  Uh, Adolf Hitler.

• 1:58:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, see, that's why people get confused about this.

• 1:59:00David Sims?

  They sure do.

• 1:59:01Speaker 04

  It's like, wait, if, if, if they were fighting against the Nazis, why are they imprisoning people who seem okay? And it becomes very confusing, and as Anna wanted me to point out, Russia was just basically in the middle of purging their entire population anyway.

• 1:59:17David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:59:18Speaker 04

  And they were using this as a fine opportunity to continue their essentially reign of terror.

• 1:59:22Griffin Newman?

  And I like the setup, I mean, it's, it's just, I guess, historically accurate, but that the Gulags at this point in time are like half criminals, half political criminals.

• 1:59:31David Sims?

  Yeah, right.

• 1:59:32Griffin Newman?

  So you got guys like Colin Farrell alongside guys like Ed Harris, who's just like an engineer who moved to Russia for work and is now-

• 1:59:39David Sims?

  Right. That's subversive, and so he's, you know, and like, Janusz, Jim Sturgess is Polish, and of course, the Soviets conquered Poland when they were allied with Hitler.

• 1:59:51Griffin Newman?

  His wife sells him out at the beginning of the movie.

• 1:59:54David Sims?

  I mean, sells him out is strong. She's coerced into, right, yeah.

• 1:59:57Griffin Newman?

  Right, and then she thinks he will break.

• 1:59:59David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:00:00Griffin Newman?

  Yes, in interrogation. I mean, I, I agree with you guys that this movie is good, right? Like, I-

• 2:00:07David Sims?

  It's like, pretty good, I mean, I did not think it was a masterpiece. I was like, I was sort of a little- You know, whelmed, but I had fairly low expectations. So I was like, right, no, this is a well-made movie and he's a good director. And what was I thinking?

• 2:00:18Speaker 04

  I just don't think he could fumble.

• 2:00:20David Sims?

  I agree with you.

• 2:00:21Speaker 04

  Even with half the resources he wants, his eye, his instincts, like, I hate this phrase. I hate when people are like, this director always knows exactly where to put the camera. Like, so does everybody in front of the actors. Like, this is an insane sentence. But his instincts of like visual storytelling are so muscular. Even in a drama, even in Dead Poets Society, he can't ever frame things in a way that you're not like, this is cool looking. This place feels real. These actors are in the moment and he's in complete control and this movie is totally solid. Like, I'm not saying it's even, you know, it could only not be in the top five of his because his highs are untouchable. But, I mean, the response to it, or the new market dumping of it, its non-existence is totally undeserved.

• 2:01:05Griffin Newman?

  Well, it's a really strong representation of this exact moment in film history where things are just kind of like falling apart. And no one knows, you know, like, is there a way to make these movies anymore?

• 2:01:17Speaker 04

  Well, that's why I found it fascinating and called it months ago.

• 2:01:19Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:01:20Speaker 04

  Just because it is that to me. And he's really just, you know, I mean, he was just, he would have been the top of anyone. I'm sure there was a time where he was ahead of Ridley Scott on people's lists.

• 2:01:27David Sims?

  Yeah. I also, I think like-

• 2:01:29Speaker 04

  But he never made, like, what's it, like, you know, he didn't have a-

• 2:01:33David Sims?

  Ridley had a really terrible 90s. I mean, like, in between Thelma and Louise and Gladiator, Ridley makes movies people don't like.

• 2:01:38Speaker 04

  What would you rather watch, White Squal or Master and Commander? It's tough.

• 2:01:42David Sims?

  Master and Commander.

• 2:01:43Speaker 04

  Okay. It's a toss-up.

• 2:01:44David Sims?

  You're saying that's a toss-up?

• 2:01:46Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah. Both of these guys took to the sea.

• 2:01:48Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 2:01:49David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:01:49Griffin Newman?

  But I think the better-

• 2:01:50Speaker 04

  Marginally similar results.

• 2:01:51Griffin Newman?

  I think the better, the better comparison is if Gladiator had performed, or rather, if Master and Commander had performed the way that Gladiator did, both financially and at the Oscars, what do the next 15 to 20 years of Peter Weir look like?

• 2:02:08Speaker 04

  And I also feel like-

• 2:02:09Griffin Newman?

  Versus that was like the second wind that like gets to the next 25 years of Ridley Scott being unstoppable.

• 2:02:15Speaker 04

  Peter Weir could have made Gladiator. Ridley Scott could not have made Master and Commander.

• 2:02:20David Sims?

  I think Ridley Scott could have made Master of the Manor, it just wouldn't have been as good.

• 2:02:23Speaker 04

  Well, right, of course he could have made it, and he might have, but it would have not been. Gladiator in Peter Weir's hands is, I think, an equally great movie.

• 2:02:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. This is my struggle with this film, and I think I put it at the bottom of my Weir rankings.

• 2:02:35Speaker 04

  The bottom?

• 2:02:36Griffin Newman?

  A lot of, look, I think the guy's never made a bad film, so I'm just rating, I'm rating-

• 2:02:41David Sims?

  He's definitely putting it at the bottom.

• 2:02:42Griffin Newman?

  Things three and above.

• 2:02:43Speaker 04

  You don't like, you don't like war.

• 2:02:45Griffin Newman?

  I don't like war.

• 2:02:46Speaker 04

  You're a real 4F.

• 2:02:48Griffin Newman?

  Absolutely. I'm flat footed as shit. I got bone spurs in my arms.

• 2:02:55Griffin Newman?

  I got bone spurs in my brain.

• 2:02:56David Sims?

  In your face.

• 2:02:57Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:57David Sims?

  Yeah, carry on, carry on.

• 2:02:59Griffin Newman?

  I, I think what I was struggling with, and it's frustrating because I'm like, it, it is because Peter Weir has so much integrity, has such like control of the dial, and is like not compromising the story to meet the sort of like commercial demands of the moment, that I felt like I was struggling to find a handle on it. I think this film is like impeccably made. I think basically everyone in the cast is like good to great. Like Sturgess is probably the worst, and he's solid, he just doesn't really register. And everyone above him is like shades of excellence. All the sort of stuff that could be seen as like bravado, we're gonna go out here and struggle,

• 2:03:42Griffin Newman?

  I'm gonna fight to get like a 10 second shot, just to prove that I'm like this serious of an artist. Like, all of that is on screen. None of that is like performative chest thumpy shit. But I kept being like, do I need this movie to have 10% of some Hollywood bullshit in some area? Do I wish this had like 10% more adventure? Cause basically from the moment they escape, it's just, we have a really long way to walk.

• 2:04:09Speaker 04

  They sure do.

• 2:04:10Griffin Newman?

  The conflict is, are we going to die before we finish this walk? But unlike the sort of prison escape movies you're talking about, there's not the kind of like, we're being chased shit. I don't want Tommy Lee Jones on their back, but from the moment they escape, and the escape is not that much of a movie.

• 2:04:26Speaker 04

  No.

• 2:04:27Griffin Newman?

  Right? Then you're just sort of in like-

• 2:04:29Speaker 04

  Escape is a-

• 2:04:29Griffin Newman?

  Is this a funereal march, right? How many guys are gonna die? How long is this gonna go on for?

• 2:04:34David Sims?

  The other thing is you keep thinking like, well, for example, will Colin Farrell turn on people? He's obviously the wild card, right? He can't be trusted. Will Saoirse Ronan, she's introduced where it's like, what's this girl's deal? She's lying about her background. And the answer is like, she lies because like she wants to have a more sympathetic sounding background than my parents were political distance.

• 2:04:52Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:52David Sims?

  Like.

• 2:04:53Speaker 04

  No more lies, as Anna quoted.

• 2:04:54David Sims?

  Right, but like, it keeps not doing the more dramatic swirly thing of like, they fight with each other.

• 2:05:00Griffin Newman?

  Which I'm respecting.

• 2:05:01David Sims?

  They betray each other, which I respect too.

• 2:05:03Griffin Newman?

  I'm respecting that it's not doing the endurance of the human spirit.

• 2:05:06David Sims?

  There's not, they don't fucking come across like a bear that like tries to eat them.

• 2:05:09Griffin Newman?

  I respect.

• 2:05:10Speaker 03

  That might have been fun, though.

• 2:05:11David Sims?

  Rawr.

• 2:05:12Speaker 04

  There's no, uh.

• 2:05:12Griffin Newman?

  The wolves are settled really quickly. Like, anytime it gives you something.

• 2:05:16Speaker 04

  Everyone is very respectful to her.

• 2:05:17Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:05:18David Sims?

  Right, there's not like a creepy sexual element with her character.

• 2:05:21Griffin Newman?

  And her dynamic with that Harris is probably my favorite part of the movie. But as you said, these are all like really small graceful character brushstrokes.

• 2:05:29David Sims?

  Even the snake.

• 2:05:30Griffin Newman?

  Beautiful moments.

• 2:05:30Speaker 04

  You're right.

• 2:05:31Speaker 03

  Like, the snake, it's not a snake attack, he's actually following the snake to water.

• 2:05:35Speaker 04

  Anna said, why does that look good to me when they're eating the snake? Because when hungry people are eating in a movie, it looks, they make it look good.

• 2:05:42Griffin Newman?

  But it basically keeps.

• 2:05:43Speaker 04

  Also, those wolves looked great. I mean, that, that, that scene happened, it's like, even in 2010, you're like, shit, he got real wolves. And it's like, Peter Weir's not fucking around with CG wolves, like.

• 2:05:51Griffin Newman?

  It basically refuses.

• 2:05:52Speaker 04

  The actors, like, keep your hands, keep your hands where the wolves can see them.

• 2:05:55Griffin Newman?

  Totally.

• 2:05:56Speaker 04

  They're, they're not trained.

• 2:05:57Griffin Newman?

  It refuses to like turn any of these things into like Roland Emmerich set pieces, right? It refuses to like create like artificial interpersonal drama between the people. There are moments and there are tensions and whatever. And I just kind of kept being like, I'm having a hard time staying with this because it just feels like, yeah, this sucks. I agree, this sucks. And it continues to suck. And I, I don't mean this backhandedly, but I kept thinking while watching this movie and then watching this fucking special feature of all of them talking about how difficult it was. And I'm like, that's not in vain. All of that is on screen. But I like flashback to being in an acting class in my twenties with the great Elizabeth Camp, R.I.P., who was the best acting teacher I ever worked with.

• 2:06:39Griffin Newman?

  And there was a guy who wanted to do a long day's journey into night. And in this class, rather than just like do the text of the scene, she'd be like, work on the character and then present to us like a moment, if it's a private moment or an improvised thing, but I don't want you thinking about how to say the dialogue, right? I want you to try to explore your take on the character, right? And so the guy just leans into playing the sickness. And he's just sort of like curled up in a ball, sort of like an alcohol withdrawal, like shaking and crying. And we just watched this for like seven minutes. And I'm sitting there being like, God, this guy's a good fucking actor. This is crazy. I don't have this kind of like physical control and like emotional, like, you know, recall

• 2:07:24Griffin Newman?

  and whatever. And then she goes like, um, are you, are you done? Do you feel like you've done everything you wanted to show us? And he's like, uh, yeah, I guess so. And she goes, good. Okay. So now we know you can do that.

• 2:07:36David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:07:37Griffin Newman?

  You feel like, yeah.

• 2:07:38David Sims?

  What did you?

• 2:07:38Griffin Newman?

  I probably told this story before.

• 2:07:40Speaker 04

  What did you bring into this session?

• 2:07:41Griffin Newman?

  Uh, that's a good question.

• 2:07:44David Sims?

  You rolled into a ball 70 minutes?

• 2:07:46Griffin Newman?

  I, I feel like I was doing Tom and Glass Menagerie.

• 2:07:50Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 2:07:50Griffin Newman?

  But then I also remember I-

• 2:07:52Speaker 04

  You weren't allowed to like bring in, you know, like a monologue from the Usual Suspects or something?

• 2:07:56Griffin Newman?

  I think you could've.

• 2:07:57Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 2:07:57Griffin Newman?

  Uh, in fact, I probably did at some point bring in some movie character, but, uh, I also ended up getting thrown into other people's scenes a lot where it's like-

• 2:08:08David Sims?

  Isn't that part of it? It's like, yeah.

• 2:08:09Griffin Newman?

  Well, this, this woman's working on proof. Can you be the Jake Gyllenhaal part? And I'd be like, great, I'm really good at improvising math.

• 2:08:17Speaker 04

  So what did you think, who did you think was, okay, so now that we know you can do that in this movie? We're or?

• 2:08:22Griffin Newman?

  I think the whole movie has a little bit of that vibe where it was like, it's not that this is showy. It's not that this is, you know, hollow. This is like incredibly skillful and is like rooted in something really honest and like powerful. But then she said like, we know you can do that, but like now let's work on how can you actually tell a story? And it's not that I feel like this movie isn't telling a story, but I kept feeling like, unlike The Revenant, which I feel like, as I said, is pushing your face in the dark. Dog shit and saying like, can you believe how hard this is and trying to make you suffer along with the characters? I think this movie is maintaining a distance and is showing you the suffering that is mirroring what everyone was going through while working on the film.

• 2:09:04Griffin Newman?

  And I'm sitting there a little bit and going like, I agree, this is like very impressive that they did this. This is objectively insane to consider any human beings going through this. I don't quite understand what I'm supposed to take away from this. I'm not looking for like a G I Joe PSA at the end.

• 2:09:19Speaker 04

  Do you like Cast Away?

• 2:09:21Griffin Newman?

  I love Cast Away.

• 2:09:22Speaker 04

  Okay, which is very schmaltzy, but.

• 2:09:24Griffin Newman?

  It's very schmaltzy and I'm not begging this movie to be a schmaltzy, but I do feel like Cast Away has the kind of like Hollywood building blocks.

• 2:09:32Speaker 03

  He needed a Wilson.

• 2:09:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, they have the knife. I mean, the knife is kind of the Wilson of the movie, right?

• 2:09:37David Sims?

  Wilson.

• 2:09:38Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:09:38Griffin Newman?

  And truly like maybe.

• 2:09:39Speaker 04

  Did they send out promotional knives for this movie? Did you get a promo knife for this movie?

• 2:09:44Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, Newmarket was famous for their swag.

• 2:09:46Speaker 04

  Memento had some promo stuff.

• 2:09:49Griffin Newman?

  But I was like, if this has an electric young leading man, does it carry me through the whole thing?

• 2:09:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I know, I know Sturgess is really taking some hits from us today, but I do feel like he's.

• 2:10:00Griffin Newman?

  He's not bad in it, but he's kind of just.

• 2:10:02Speaker 04

  He's not bad. He's fine, but I think if you stacked up every We're movie and you rank the lead performances, he's the bottom.

• 2:10:09Griffin Newman?

  No question.

• 2:10:10Speaker 04

  Only because that is literally Mount Rushmore.

• 2:10:12Speaker 03

  Right. He's a rare guy that really did not pop in the hands of, of, of We're.

• 2:10:16Griffin Newman?

  I mean, even he launched the career of Napoleon in fucking Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure, you know?

• 2:10:21Speaker 03

  You know what might maybe helped?

• 2:10:23Griffin Newman?

  What?

• 2:10:24Speaker 03

  And this is a part of the book that was not included in the film. There are yeti-like creatures in the Himalayas that they mentioned spotting, a pair of yeti.

• 2:10:36David Sims?

  It would be funny if like one hour and 55 minutes into the movie, they're like, oh, and by the way, we fucking saw the abominable snowman. Anyway, moving on back to indie, you know, like.

• 2:10:45Speaker 03

  What if the, and the snowman takes them inside his lair and they're tied up and they have to escape?

• 2:10:50David Sims?

  That's what happens in Tintin in Tibet, not to spoil it.

• 2:10:53Griffin Newman?

  Wow.

• 2:10:54Speaker 04

  But Griffin, in like, in the hopeless survival narratives, like the moment where they come to the gates of where they've been going.

• 2:11:00Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 2:11:00Speaker 04

  And there's like Stalin on the gates and they're like, oh, this is communist too. We have to just turn around.

• 2:11:05Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:11:05Speaker 04

  Does that not satisfy the urge of like a tragic, ironic story beat?

• 2:11:10Speaker 03

  That, that, that beat is very interesting, but it's played very quietly.

• 2:11:13David Sims?

  I really like that beat because I like them being like, fuck, like it's everywhere and we are enemies of this particular ideology. So we can't go, like, we can't settle here or whatever.

• 2:11:24Griffin Newman?

  This is where I am just personally struggling with the film and not making a larger indictment, right?

• 2:11:28David Sims?

  And then I love Colin Farrell being like, I like Stalin too much to go here. Anyway, carry on.

• 2:11:32Griffin Newman?

  I, I love it as well, but I'm like, this is a fascinating scene in of itself. I'm really engaged in this scene. The scenes aren't like building upon each other for me and it's just the nature of what the narrative is. Where the fact that it's like, oh, they get here and there's this like dramatic irony of, oh, now we have to like find another way. But also five minutes earlier, the movie lost Colin Farrell, the most interesting character because he was like, I don't want to get to that ideological threshold. And now I'm like, okay, so now the movie's like hit a cul-de-sac and also we lost Colin Farrell, whose character bowed out of the movie. Because he thought this checkpoint was gonna go differently.

• 2:12:13Speaker 04

  But now Saoirse Ronan kind of is stepping up to be like the third lead when he's gone.

• 2:12:18Griffin Newman?

  Which I think she's great in it.

• 2:12:19Speaker 04

  The two kind of Griffin beats that are when he suggested tattoos should be on his butt.

• 2:12:23Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:24Speaker 04

  That's your, that'd be your move there. And then of course.

• 2:12:26Griffin Newman?

  Stalin on his asshole.

• 2:12:27Speaker 04

  You'd be, you know, threatened with a knife and the guy who just can't see and freezes to death.

• 2:12:31Griffin Newman?

  Well, that's who I would play.

• 2:12:32Speaker 04

  Yeah. Like what happened to Griffin is like, I don't know. He has bad eyesight. Oh, there he is. He's frozen.

• 2:12:36Griffin Newman?

  Well, no, it'd be what happened to Griffin. He slept in, he missed the escape.

• 2:12:42David Sims?

  He couldn't hit his like alarm, which is just like a bunch of sticks.

• 2:12:45Griffin Newman?

  Oh, he hit it, but he hit the fucking snooze stick 80 times.

• 2:12:50David Sims?

  It is nice to see Gustav Skarsgard, an actor I always enjoy, who obviously is largely, uh, you know, mostly does Swedish movies. Um, but yeah, he's really good in this.

• 2:12:59Griffin Newman?

  He was really good in Black Bag.

• 2:13:00David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:01Griffin Newman?

  He was good in Oppenheimer.

• 2:13:03David Sims?

  He's good. And, uh, yeah, and he was good in, uh, in Westworld, actually, to speak of, um, Ed Harris' favorite role.

• 2:13:09Speaker 04

  So Griffin, you feel like the movie goes off a cliff when Farrell stays in Russia?

• 2:13:13David Sims?

  I would say it goes off a cliff. It does slow down a little bit.

• 2:13:15Griffin Newman?

  It loses a lot of juice.

• 2:13:16David Sims?

  Saoirse dying is a really like well-done scene. It's beautifully done, actually.

• 2:13:20Speaker 04

  It is. It's, I was like really.

• 2:13:21David Sims?

  Beautifully acted and done.

• 2:13:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:23David Sims?

  But I am like. Yeah, I'm a little dead into the movie.

• 2:13:27Griffin Newman?

  I think Farrell's the spark plug. I think Farrell is the equivalent of adding you into the News and Deals group chat. Like, you need him there to create the innate tension of like, where's this guy gonna go?

• 2:13:38Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:13:39Griffin Newman?

  And I'm expecting-

• 2:13:40Speaker 04

  Yes, I'll take that.

• 2:13:42Griffin Newman?

  Right. And I'm expecting that, like, as much as I'm going to be sorry to see him leave the movie early, it will come to like a head in a very dramatic fashion.

• 2:13:51Speaker 04

  There's nothing like that. Well, because the elements are like that. The sandstorm is that, and the mosquitoes are that.

• 2:13:55Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:56Speaker 04

  When she takes off-

• 2:13:57David Sims?

  Although I like the mosquitoes, the way they deal with it is they ask one guy, like, "How do we deal with this?" And he's like, "Easy, put this shit around your neck."

• 2:14:03Speaker 04

  There's some guy wandering around Mongolia.

• 2:14:05David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:06Speaker 04

  When Saoirse Ronan takes off her shoes and her feet are all fat, Anna just goes, "I remember this part so well."

• 2:14:12David Sims?

  Favorite part.

• 2:14:14Speaker 04

  It's like, why?

• 2:14:15David Sims?

  It is kind of striking, because they're like, "Oh, yeah." And she's like, "I mean, you know, I've been walking a lot." And everyone's like, "Mm-hmm."

• 2:14:23Speaker 04

  You're used to the blistering-

• 2:14:24David Sims?

  Feet are supposed to look like this. Like, you're gonna be fine.

• 2:14:27Speaker 04

  You're used to the blistering sores of feet and stuff like this. You're not used to this weird kind of puffiness. And then someone else has it later.

• 2:14:33David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:34Griffin Newman?

  Very, very well-earned makeup nom. Like, the makeup in this is incredible, and it is so subtly done that you have to keep reminding yourself that it is makeup?

• 2:14:43Speaker 04

  From the mosquito bites to the dehydration.

• 2:14:46Griffin Newman?

  You just feel like you're watching a documentary.

• 2:14:48David Sims?

  It lost its course to The Wolfman, because that has a wolfman in it.

• 2:14:51Speaker 04

  Well, The Wolfman swept that year, I feel like. It was kind of the return of the king of those Oscars.

• 2:14:55David Sims?

  Director.

• 2:14:56Griffin Newman?

  Rick Baker-

• 2:14:57Speaker 04

  Best Supporting Wolfman.

• 2:14:58Griffin Newman?

  The goat. I have always disliked the look of that character in that movie.

• 2:15:01David Sims?

  We've talked about this, right? You're not a big fan of the Baker job. And that's sort of like one of his big, like, later in life jobs.

• 2:15:07Griffin Newman?

  It's his kind of swan song. Like, to a certain extent, I think it's his last Oscar win, and he basically talked about the process of making that movie drove him so insane that he was, he had his own kind of Peter Weir, like, "I guess I'm not aligned with this industry anymore" moment.

• 2:15:21David Sims?

  Yeah, right.

• 2:15:22Griffin Newman?

  Like, he still did Men in Black 3.

• 2:15:24David Sims?

  Sure.

• 2:15:25Griffin Newman?

  He fulfilled a couple legacy jobs, but he basically starts pulling back after Wolfman.

• 2:15:30David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:31Griffin Newman?

  And he views it as like, "That was the last time I got away with doing what I want to do." And I've just never-

• 2:15:35David Sims?

  Maleficent is the other one he did.

• 2:15:37Griffin Newman?

  But he didn't win for that, or he did?

• 2:15:38David Sims?

  Uh, no, he didn't even get nominated. He just, he just worked on the movie.

• 2:15:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. I, I, yeah, I don't get that design.

• 2:15:46Speaker 04

  So, once the movie progresses, because it's, you know, it's, it's such a simple, literal movie.

• 2:15:50Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:15:50Speaker 04

  There's like, you know, there's very little like, oh, what about this part? It's basically like, what about the mosquitoes? What about when they find the water well and they all start drinking water?

• 2:15:59Griffin Newman?

  So, removing the schmaltz from the equation, right?

• 2:16:01Speaker 04

  What about when the Mongols give them a sack of water?

• 2:16:03Griffin Newman?

  Like-

• 2:16:04Speaker 04

  And they say they're too poor for horses and they're just like, okay, well, we have no questions about why you people are wandering around out here.

• 2:16:09Griffin Newman?

  I like all of these moments. Cast Away, I, I am a sap at Conqueror and a goofball.

• 2:16:14Speaker 04

  Do you like Jerry?

• 2:16:16Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:16:17David Sims?

  Oh, the Van Sand movie? That's the best. That movie fucking rocks.

• 2:16:21Speaker 04

  I put this movie closer to Jerry than The Revenant.

• 2:16:23David Sims?

  But Jerry is like abstracting everything to the millions degree, which, which is so cool. I mean, Jerry rocks.

• 2:16:28Griffin Newman?

  So, the-

• 2:16:29David Sims?

  It's great. Bring, bring back Jerry. Jerry 2?

• 2:16:31Griffin Newman?

  Jerry's- Cast Away comparison.

• 2:16:33Speaker 04

  Is, is Van Sand still on the, uh, still on the board?

• 2:16:35David Sims?

  Well, he's going up against your favorite filmmaker of all time, Chris Columbus right now.

• 2:16:40Griffin Newman?

  That's happening right now. Uh, Cast Away has- The structure of problem solving, which is what I think I like in this type of movie when I connect to this type of film.

• 2:16:49David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, which is the fun of Send Help even, like any island movie.

• 2:16:53Speaker 04

  Well, also, I mean, this is insane. Chris Columbus is winning. Who the fuck wants this over a Psycho remake episode?

• 2:16:59David Sims?

  I would love, very much love to discuss the Psycho remake, a movie I love.

• 2:17:02Speaker 04

  Um, but the other, like, to us, like, out of the movies we like watching at home, there's like the two kinds of this kind of movie you're describing is something like The Martian, which has a kind of identical problem solving-

• 2:17:12Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:12Speaker 04

  -structure. And then there's the kind of, um, like, seafaring adventure shipwreck in the heart of the sea, where it's just like another thing of like, can these people survive?

• 2:17:22David Sims?

  But In the Heart of the Sea is one that nobody likes, because that one's a much grimmer.

• 2:17:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think a lot of people like that movie. I think a lot of people find that to be like a really worthy-

• 2:17:30David Sims?

  A lot of people?

• 2:17:33Speaker 04

  Yeah. Definitely, I think a very popular movie.

• 2:17:36David Sims?

  A whale is writing that right now. I think a lot of people like-

• 2:17:39Speaker 04

  That movie and wanted to come back.

• 2:17:40Griffin Newman?

  Even like All Is Lost, which is not my favorite movie and is similarly like very sparse.

• 2:17:45Speaker 04

  That's not your favorite movie?

• 2:17:46Griffin Newman?

  It's not, in fact, my number one favorite movie of all time.

• 2:17:50Speaker 04

  Sight and sound poll, number one, All Is Lost.

• 2:17:52Griffin Newman?

  I know people think-

• 2:17:53Speaker 04

  Number two, The Muppet Movie.

• 2:17:54David Sims?

  Where you're like, I know these are unranked, but just to be clear, All Is Lost is number one.

• 2:17:58Griffin Newman?

  All four slots on my Letterboxd floor.

• 2:18:00David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:02Speaker 04

  It's not. Some is lost.

• 2:18:03Griffin Newman?

  No, it's all is. You have to respect the all.

• 2:18:06Speaker 04

  I always thought that was your favorite movie.

• 2:18:08Griffin Newman?

  This is why I'm trying to correct this scurrilous rumor.

• 2:18:13David Sims?

  Even All Is Lost, which is not your favorite movie, please finish your thought.

• 2:18:16Griffin Newman?

  And it's so stripped down and obviously like mostly-

• 2:18:18David Sims?

  No talking.

• 2:18:19Griffin Newman?

  Right, wordless and whatever, has that kind of like, okay, here's this one problem, he's gotta solve this, where I feel it stacking up. And I think this movie, I rewatched Day After Tomorrow recently.

• 2:18:29David Sims?

  So did I.

• 2:18:30Griffin Newman?

  A movie that fucking rules that David's wrong about.

• 2:18:32David Sims?

  Not a movie I like.

• 2:18:33Griffin Newman?

  But that is a movie where I'm always fascinated by its Hollywood junkiness, where it's like,

• 2:18:37David Sims?

  Very junky.

• 2:18:38Griffin Newman?

  We can keep escalating the type of natural disasters that happen, and then you feel two thirds into the movie, them go, fuck. There is no way to resolve this film.

• 2:18:46David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:18:47Griffin Newman?

  They can't undo the weather.

• 2:18:48David Sims?

  No.

• 2:18:49Griffin Newman?

  And there's nothing for them to conquer. There is no way for them to score a win.

• 2:18:53David Sims?

  Randy Quaid can't fly a plane into those alien spaceship.

• 2:18:57Griffin Newman?

  And then they're like, I guess they have to fight wolves. I guess like Dennis Quaid has to come to him. I always forget how late in the movie Dennis Quaid-

• 2:19:03David Sims?

  That's like right at the end, right?

• 2:19:04Griffin Newman?

  Even starts his journey. It's over an hour before he's like, fuck it, I'm walking. I'm gonna do my own long walk. And then that's pretty expediated. And I feel this movie being like, Peter, we're pitching this to studios. Studios being like, cool, so can every 15 minutes, something insane happen? The guys have to try to kill each other. There have to be like big kind of like conflicts that they can like score wins over. And he's like, no, that's not the kind of movie I'm making. And he has like-

• 2:19:31Speaker 04

  You're saying he's Costanza-ing it?

• 2:19:32Griffin Newman?

  Yes, and then he's overcorrected-

• 2:19:34Speaker 04

  No, no, nothing happens.

• 2:19:35Griffin Newman?

  So far into the, well, if I'm not making it with the studio, then I'm making it exactly the way I want, and I'm not going for any Hollywood bullshit artifice. And I'm like, I could use like five to 10% more, kind of like, not wins.

• 2:19:50Speaker 04

  Well, I mean, what you're describing is the way Mosquito Coast is structured.

• 2:19:52Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:19:53Speaker 04

  Which is like a series of- Builds and activities and ice transports and little things that arise and the sort of endless obstacles that he's facing.

• 2:20:03Griffin Newman?

  It's so focused and it's bleakness. It's not like selling out the message of the movie and, and the integrity of like, you know, the character study and all of that. But it does have that kind of build that I think I was just kind of struggling to hold on to here. Every scene would happen. I'd be like, this is a good scene. And then the next scene would start. And I'd be like, okay, this scene has to win me over again from zero.

• 2:20:25Speaker 03

  Where do you guys, I, I, when, once we hit the monks is when I'm like, I'm parking my ass here. This is great. I want to hang out with you guys. Like, this is great. I don't want to go to, keep walking.

• 2:20:34Griffin Newman?

  They leave at Harris there and I'm like, why are you not staying there?

• 2:20:37Speaker 03

  Cause Sturgess is like, I gotta get home, run.

• 2:20:39Speaker 04

  Anna was very.

• 2:20:40Griffin Newman?

  I gotta get home to my fucking wife.

• 2:20:42Speaker 04

  Anna's comment at the end of our.

• 2:20:43Griffin Newman?

  Sold me down the river?

• 2:20:44Speaker 04

  Our rewatch was, um,

• 2:20:47Speaker 04

  like, I did not know that the point of this movie was like this eternal love that he has to return to.

• 2:20:51Speaker 03

  I feel like they debut that notion pretty late.

• 2:20:54Speaker 04

  Even though it is the first scene in the movie.

• 2:20:56Speaker 03

  It's the first scene in the movie and then you have a couple of times where he has sort of the vision of the door, which I like.

• 2:21:00Speaker 04

  Right. Yeah. Yeah, that stuff is, I mean, we're just good at that stuff.

• 2:21:03Speaker 03

  He's good at that stuff, but they don't.

• 2:21:04Speaker 04

  There's so much of that in Truman Show two.

• 2:21:05Speaker 03

  Again, because this movie doesn't have like overlabored kind of monologues of like guys being like, yeah, that's my wife. I love her so much. You know, like.

• 2:21:12Speaker 04

  The photos in the helmet.

• 2:21:13Speaker 03

  Right. It does take a while for him to be like, oh no, by the way, like we got to cross the Himalayas right fucking now. Even though like clearly the wisest man you've ever seen was like, not a good idea. It's the winter. Like wait until spring.

• 2:21:27Speaker 04

  Yetis, yetis, there be yetis.

• 2:21:29Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. This was another thing I thought while watching it.

• 2:21:31Speaker 03

  That was the, that was the missed opportunity for me.

• 2:21:34Griffin Newman?

  The other thing I thought was, would this movie benefit from starting one week earlier rather than starting in the interrogation room?

• 2:21:42Speaker 04

  Giving you like Sturgess in Poland, being rounded up?

• 2:21:44Griffin Newman?

  Well, let's also say maybe, maybe it's a guy with a little more juice than Sturgess, right?

• 2:21:49Speaker 04

  Who is that? I mean, I don't want to go down this rabbit hole at this point, but like.

• 2:21:52Griffin Newman?

  It's a really good question.

• 2:21:53Speaker 04

  In 2010.

• 2:21:53Griffin Newman?

  At this moment, it's tough. We can keep pointing to people.

• 2:21:56Speaker 04

  But this is also when like male actors started, you know, basically being hunted for sport.

• 2:22:01Speaker 03

  Who is new then? Is that more interesting? Or is, do we shoot higher? Do we get like Matt Damon? You know, do we get like, like a very established actor?

• 2:22:09Griffin Newman?

  It's tough because it's like, if it's 2000, the options are overflowing.

• 2:22:15David Sims?

  Yeah, but then you could end up with like a Tobey Maguire. Where you're like, I don't know what that looks like, you know? I don't know why I'm going to him, but he did occur to me.

• 2:22:23Speaker 04

  He's Sturgess-esque in his gentleness.

• 2:22:25Griffin Newman?

  I just think I realized too late in this movie, much like it sounds Anna did, oh, right. The thing that's driving him is wanting to see his wife again.

• 2:22:34Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 2:22:34David Sims?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:22:35Griffin Newman?

  Which this movie and its stoicism is not overplayed.

• 2:22:38David Sims?

  Fucking James Franco, like who made a survival thriller this year?

• 2:22:41Speaker 04

  Now we're talking.

• 2:22:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, although like that's the better survival thriller for him to be in.

• 2:22:47David Sims?

  It is. I'm not, you know?

• 2:22:49Speaker 04

  But you mean like a guy who's just kind of innately charismatic?

• 2:22:53David Sims?

  Can be, although sometimes Franco, you're kind of like, did you forget to plug in today, buddy?

• 2:22:57Speaker 04

  But I think him at that time would put himself in the hands of a master like we're in. He would, he would rise to the assignment at this, at this time.

• 2:23:04Griffin Newman?

  I do think he wants a certain emotionality in this role though, right? Like he wants a certain sweetness.

• 2:23:09Speaker 04

  But he also, but the script doesn't support that because there isn't any of those moments of like, what are you gonna do with, what's the first thing you're gonna do when you get back?

• 2:23:16Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:23:16Speaker 04

  Kiss my wife? What about you? Hug my mother? Like there's none of that.

• 2:23:19Griffin Newman?

  That's why I'm like, does it need to start a week earlier so that there's some status quo of their relationship? Rather than it's starting with him in the interrogation and her like setting him up?

• 2:23:29David Sims?

  Sure.

• 2:23:29Griffin Newman?

  And him falling on the sword, you know?

• 2:23:31Speaker 03

  It doesn't make sense too, because, and I guess the characters at that time don't know this, right? That the war will eventually end, but even beyond the war, like the occupation.

• 2:23:43David Sims?

  The Iron Curtain will fall and you will be able to go to, as we see right at the end.

• 2:23:47Speaker 03

  Right. So it's like the chance of him being able to go back and see his wife. It doesn't seem like it could happen like within his lifetime.

• 2:23:54Speaker 04

  The post scripts that like follow the fall of communism are very, it's like, wow, this is really consolidating decades of history into a series of title cards.

• 2:24:02Griffin Newman?

  With footsteps over them because it's like, oh, right. He hasn't gotten to the end of his problems.

• 2:24:06Speaker 04

  The walk continues.

• 2:24:07Griffin Newman?

  I think a lot of prison movies too, like you gotta see some amount of their life on the outside before they go in to understand what they've lost. I don't think with, without exception, but I felt like I didn't have enough of a grounding in this guy to have him be the one driving the movie.

• 2:24:26Speaker 04

  I guess because we watch like 30 World War Two films a year, kind of in a row.

• 2:24:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:31Speaker 04

  I'm like, I, I know what he was doing last week. I know what happened to Poland.

• 2:24:34Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 2:24:35Speaker 04

  You've seen Schindler's List, you know what happened to Poland.

• 2:24:38Griffin Newman?

  I have, I have, yeah.

• 2:24:53Speaker 04

  Do you like those movies?

• 2:24:55Griffin Newman?

  I love Schindler's List.

• 2:24:56Speaker 04

  You like the Spielberg treatment of a World War II?

• 2:24:59David Sims?

  Well, he's only seen Saving Private Ryan one time.

• 2:25:01Griffin Newman?

  Gave me a fucking panic attack. I had to stop doing it. But I do own the steelbook. I own the 4K.

• 2:25:05David Sims?

  Thank god.

• 2:25:06Griffin Newman?

  A commitment to rewatching it at some day.

• 2:25:08Speaker 04

  Do you fuck with Fury?

• 2:25:10Griffin Newman?

  I like Fury okay.

• 2:25:11David Sims?

  Fury's alright.

• 2:25:11Speaker 04

  Anna said last night after this, first, so excited to rewatch it. Then she goes, "Man, what a great movie. Really comforting. I could see watching this once a year." And I said, "Really? Once a year?" She goes, "Yeah, I mean, it's not like, um, like really intense, something that's hard to watch like Fury." And I said, "Anna, you watch Fury all the time." She goes, "Okay, well, not Fury, but like something that would be more intense than Fury."

• 2:25:30Griffin Newman?

  Like, two months ago, I texted you, "Arp, I wanna make a pitch. What if we put you on?" And I named a bigger movie.

• 2:25:37Speaker 04

  Well, you'll probably have announced that by now.

• 2:25:38Griffin Newman?

  In the next month. We'll announce at the end of this episode.

• 2:25:40Speaker 04

  Oh, okay, great. You can announce it in the middle so that people have to listen.

• 2:25:44Griffin Newman?

  And then you were like, "Why, why would I not be doing The Way Back?" And I was like, "Well, I assumed you only put your finger down on Way Back 'cause of the, like, most irrelevant movie in a filmmaker's career." And you were like, "You're forgetting that I like..."

• 2:25:56Speaker 04

  War Season. You don't know about War Season. Well, you do know about War.

• 2:25:59David Sims?

  I knew.

• 2:25:59Griffin Newman?

  Can you share with the listener War Season?

• 2:26:01Speaker 04

  Yeah, so, basically, like, 15 years ago, we were driving up to Vermont for the weekend, and we bought some DVDs at a gas station, as one did at the time. One of those DVDs was Ed Zwick's Defiance, a film we had not yet seen. We go to a snowy cab and we watch Defiance. Turns out it's a masterpiece. Just fucking incredible. I mean, that's a movie like this also, just like...

• 2:26:19David Sims?

  The Ed Zwick movie?

• 2:26:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's incredible.

• 2:26:21Griffin Newman?

  Defiance, for me, is a perfect example of Oscar nomination morning, Defiance gets zero noms, I go, "What a relief. I never have to watch that."

• 2:26:28David Sims?

  Drag to recycle bin.

• 2:26:29Speaker 04

  It is better than, if that movie came out last year, not one, not last year, but two years ago, it would be like, "Well, this is the best movie of the year."

• 2:26:36Griffin Newman?

  If it came out last year, would he put it above or below Nürburgring?

• 2:26:39Speaker 04

  Above.

• 2:26:40Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:26:40Speaker 04

  Defiance is an excellent film. It is really well-made with three incredible performances from Craig, Schreiber, and Jamie Bell. It is such a good ver- it is what you are saying you want from this movie.

• 2:26:51Griffin Newman?

  Maybe I should watch it.

• 2:26:51Speaker 04

  It is an endless slog of hopeless survival, set against inhospitable elements, but with that Hollywood sheen and the melodrama layered over it with romance.

• 2:27:02Speaker 04

  So we watched that and we were like, this fucking rules. Defiance is great. We go home, our neighbors ask us to cat sit. We're feeding their cat, we look on their DVD shelf. Two things there that we're interested in, Schindler's List and Shoah.

• 2:27:13Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 2:27:14Speaker 04

  Take them upstairs and we watch them in the week that they're gone.

• 2:27:17Griffin Newman?

  Sounds like a fun week.

• 2:27:18Speaker 04

  So now we're thinking this is Holocaust season. So then we spend like five years.

• 2:27:22David Sims?

  To be clear, my head is in my hands.

• 2:27:23Speaker 04

  We spend like five years in the dead of winter.

• 2:27:26Griffin Newman?

  Ben, can we commission a shirt that says, and now we're thinking it's Holocaust season?

• 2:27:30Speaker 04

  Now, wait a minute.

• 2:27:31Griffin Newman?

  With a cartoon depiction of.

• 2:27:32Speaker 04

  Well, Holocaust is sort of, sort of the prologue because then.

• 2:27:34Griffin Newman?

  Wearing a Slayer.

• 2:27:35Speaker 04

  So for like five years, every February, March, when it's just the worst out, gray, cold.

• 2:27:41David Sims?

  Yeah, sure. And you've been in winter for months.

• 2:27:43Speaker 04

  Every year, we're like, okay, so let's do like, you know, five, 10 Holocaust films.

• 2:27:47Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, the Holocaust of seasons, winter.

• 2:27:50Speaker 04

  Eventually we run out of Holocaust films.

• 2:27:52Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 2:27:52Speaker 04

  Or at least, you know, the ones that you need to see or revisit. So then we say, now it's war season. We've expanded this. This is now an entire season devoted to World War II in cinema. Now there's, we could do this for the rest of our lives. We wouldn't run out of movies.

• 2:28:07David Sims?

  There are a lot of World War II.

• 2:28:09Speaker 04

  And we do this every year. I take it very seriously. I put together a sort of dossier, not a like JJ style dossier, but a one sheet.

• 2:28:17David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:18Speaker 04

  That I make our list on every year.

• 2:28:20David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:28:20Speaker 04

  And.

• 2:28:21Griffin Newman?

  Is it always fresh films every year?

• 2:28:23Speaker 04

  No, no, there's stuff that's been on there forever. Like there's stuff that it's like, we just watched Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence. And I was like, this has been on the list since before I started printing them. Oh, like I have handwritten pieces of paper.

• 2:28:33Griffin Newman?

  I mean, are they all blind watches or you're throwing in rewatches?

• 2:28:36Speaker 04

  Oh, no, we always rewatch is a very important part of it, such as the way back. On his birthday was a few weeks ago. So it's your night of your birthday, anything you want, what do you want to do? And she goes, Schindler's List. It's like, this is fucking great. So we watched it. We watched half of it. The next night, we finish it. And I was like, you know, the finishing night was like an hour.

• 2:28:55Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:55Speaker 04

  We watched like two hours and I was like, what do you want to, what do you want to do? It's only, it's still a little bit early. And she goes, feels like we should watch an episode of The Pacific. I was like, this is unbelievable. Her commitment to it exceeds mine by a thousand percent.

• 2:29:06Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:29:06Speaker 04

  But Anna loves nothing more than World War II.

• 2:29:08David Sims?

  I was about to say, it's very much World War II that.

• 2:29:10Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like the thing I always say is this was on like an SNL where I think it was like a Five Timers Club sketch where Tom Hanks was talking to Andy Samberg. He goes, you know what I love, Andy? And he just goes, World War II?

• 2:29:24Speaker 04

  That's pretty good.

• 2:29:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:29:25Speaker 04

  That is, that is on a to a T. And we curate war seat, like I start working on the list like in the summer. Where I'm like, oh, there's this new movie like I, or whatever. I'll be like at a film festival and I send her a picture of some poster for a Norwegian film with a swastika on it. And I'm like adding it to the list. Like it's, it's gotta go on the list. And we end up putting together like a really diverse collection of war films that tell the totality of the story. From the Eastern Front, South America, after the war, this and like, like what did we just watch? A music box, the Costa Gofres film.

• 2:29:58Speaker 03

  Oh, sure.

• 2:29:59Speaker 04

  Um, which I'd never heard of. And I think either came up when I was reading something about, it was just an accident or it came up on like a Cine Matrix with, uh, what's her name, Jessica Lange? And I was like, what is this movie? It has a swastika on the poster.

• 2:30:10Speaker 03

  I also feel like Wesley Morris brought this up.

• 2:30:12Speaker 04

  Maybe that's right. Maybe, maybe that is where I got it.

• 2:30:14Speaker 03

  This is the exact kind of movie we don't make anymore. That used to be important to the ecosystem.

• 2:30:18Speaker 04

  It came into my brain somewhere. Now, obviously it wasn't on my printed list because I printed that list in January.

• 2:30:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:30:22Speaker 04

  So we, but we were able to, to squeeze it in anyway.

• 2:30:25Speaker 03

  Is that her dad is a Nazi?

• 2:30:26Speaker 04

  Yeah. Or he's being accused of having been a commandant.

• 2:30:29Speaker 03

  Yeah. Have you seen number 24?

• 2:30:32Speaker 04

  Um, wait, is that the nor, is that the?

• 2:30:34Speaker 03

  It's Norwegian.

• 2:30:35Speaker 04

  We watched that last year. That was like the, what made you watch that?

• 2:30:39Speaker 03

  I don't know, actually. Other than I was looking for something to watch on a flight.

• 2:30:45Speaker 04

  Is, yeah. Is that, it's about, it's about the formula for heavy water. Is that right?

• 2:30:49Speaker 03

  This is about a, a guy who was part of the resistance in Norway.

• 2:30:53Speaker 04

  Oh, the resistance fighter. Oh yeah. And then it's like kind of a docu drama. And there's like scenes of him talking to students in it.

• 2:30:57Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:30:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:30:58Speaker 03

  Cutting between that and his like various exploits.

• 2:31:01Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, that's right. Something I find very interesting and unheralded in like the endless morass of Netflix slop is that every year Netflix will drop like 10 international films about World War II that I've never heard of. And you watch them and they're all like solid.

• 2:31:16Speaker 03

  And this was, it was great.

• 2:31:17Speaker 04

  You look it up and it's like, oh, this was this country's submission for the Oscars. Didn't get released, never heard of it. David Sims never saw it.

• 2:31:22Speaker 03

  Basically all quiet on the Western Front was the only one of those that punched through.

• 2:31:26Speaker 04

  But they put, they put up.

• 2:31:26Speaker 03

  But they have like 10 of those a year.

• 2:31:28Speaker 04

  10.

• 2:31:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:31:29Speaker 04

  There's one, you know, Will, there's one called like Blood and Gold, there's one photographer of Mathhausen that was like a Spanish concentration camp movie. Occasionally still get a good new holocaust. Did you see David, it was a TIFF movie, Irina's Vow?

• 2:31:44David Sims?

  No, I've at least heard of that one, but that's

• 2:31:46Speaker 04

  Highlighted this year's War Season.

• 2:31:48David Sims?

  Fair enough.

• 2:31:48Speaker 04

  Total, like classy surprise of like really, really good movie.

• 2:31:54David Sims?

  Have you seen, I wrote a piece about St. Skarsgård and I've never seen this film, Good Evening Mr. Wallenberg.

• 2:32:01Speaker 04

  No.

• 2:32:01David Sims?

  This was a St. Skarsgård breakout movie, it was a big movie in Sweden where he plays a famous Swedish figure, a diplomat who was instrumental in saving the lives of thousands of Hungarian Jews during the Holocaust. Never seen it, but it looks like the kind of sort of handsome Oscar submission that was big in its country, but not really big outside of it.

• 2:32:20Speaker 04

  So many of those, even still.

• 2:32:22David Sims?

  Anyway, that's all.

• 2:32:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, this is a very important part of our viewing, so we were, I think we initially watched this movie as part of that. And as just Peter Weir fans, but man, we love War Season. It's almost over, but we're in it. We're still in it.

• 2:32:35David Sims?

  Anything else, any other watches this year?

• 2:32:38Speaker 04

  I mean, yeah, we've been doing it for months at this point.

• 2:32:41Griffin Newman?

  Are we almost pulling out of War Season?

• 2:32:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, it's getting a little too warm. But then when it gets warm, you can watch things that are, you know, like that take place in the jungle. You can kind of migrate to the Pacific.

• 2:32:53Griffin Newman?

  Do you pin the end of War Season on a calendar date?

• 2:32:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, Memorial Day.

• 2:32:57Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:32:58Speaker 04

  We can, we can drag it out to Memorial Day, but not consistently. We can, like, I think one year we saved Midway for Memorial Day.

• 2:33:06Griffin Newman?

  You were so excited when Midway was coming out.

• 2:33:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, so excited that I waited like two years to watch it at home on Memorial Day.

• 2:33:12Griffin Newman?

  But I feel like in those two years, you were constantly texting, that movie is, I guarantee you, an eight out of 10 at the worst.

• 2:33:19Speaker 04

  And it was. It was a very, very solid movie.

• 2:33:22David Sims?

  Is that the one with?

• 2:33:23Griffin Newman?

  Glenn Powell, or was that a different one? That's devotion. Oh, that's right, that's right. Which stars Glenn Powell and weird, the second actor above the title has disappeared. Oh, who was that? Jonathan Majors. Oh, dear. Uh, Midway was, was Patrick Wilson and Dennis Quaid.

• 2:33:38Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:33:38Griffin Newman?

  And it's, it is a role in Emerald.

• 2:33:40Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dennis Quaid is, um, is he MacArthur in it?

• 2:33:44Griffin Newman?

  I couldn't tell you.

• 2:33:45Speaker 04

  He's, he's high up, he's brass.

• 2:33:47Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, so anyway, we watch hundreds of war films.

• 2:33:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:50Speaker 04

  And I can throw this on and be like, well, of course, this guy was rounded up in the communist purge and he's being accused of being an enemy of the state. And we're off to the races. And it's kind of fun to continue the conversation of expanding the, the conflict of the war. And never needing to like pause or take a break from it, because you can kind of just jump into whatever and know. Because the thing that you're, the thing that you're missing in this movie that is like really what makes good war films great is that great war films can distill the essence of the entire war into a single moment.

• 2:34:22Griffin Newman?

  Yes, that's a good call.

• 2:34:23Speaker 04

  Often either the beginning or the end of the movie.

• 2:34:25Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:34:25Speaker 04

  Schindler's List does this, the opening save in Private Ryan, it distills the essence of World War Two into a, a scene.

• 2:34:30Griffin Newman?

  Right, two soldiers meeting in the middle of the battlefield from opposite sides, both tending to a warhorse.

• 2:34:36Speaker 04

  And this movie, well, sure. And this movie doesn't have that scene. It doesn't have the moment.

• 2:34:40Griffin Newman?

  That is a good call.

• 2:34:41Speaker 04

  That stands in for like, and that is what it was about in Russia during World War Two.

• 2:34:47Griffin Newman?

  I also think everyone in this movie you meet is so thoroughly broken already that I, I, just me, with this not being my chosen genre. I think I usually need the emotional in of here's what they lost. And what is hanging over the movie emotionally is them trying to get something back.

• 2:35:07Speaker 04

  Do you like old, cause to us, like the history, I mean, obviously they started making World War Two films like before the war, almost. Yeah, like, but the kind of first wave, the men on a mission movies, which are just pure action films.

• 2:35:19Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:35:19Speaker 04

  Do you like those movies at all?

• 2:35:21Griffin Newman?

  I don't prefer that.

• 2:35:22Speaker 04

  I feel like this is something I can't picture you watching, cause you're not like a dad in the seventies.

• 2:35:26Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. I mean, I watched them. That is not my favorite kind of war movie.

• 2:35:30David Sims?

  Because those do tend to have a little bit of a formula to them, but they're fun.

• 2:35:33Speaker 04

  Like, I mean, do you, yeah.

• 2:35:35David Sims?

  This is the tough guy. This guy's kind of the smart guy.

• 2:35:37Speaker 04

  Do you like Dirty Dozen Great Escape? Do you like?

• 2:35:39Griffin Newman?

  I like those two movies. Yeah, but I'm like.

• 2:35:41Speaker 04

  Heroes of Telemark and Force Ten and Never.

• 2:35:44Griffin Newman?

  I'm like doing in my head, like, what's my favorite war movie? And I'm like, oh, my answer is like best years of their lives, which is a post-war movie.

• 2:35:52Speaker 04

  A war romance is very important part of war season.

• 2:35:54David Sims?

  Best Years of Their Lives is an incredible one.

• 2:35:55Griffin Newman?

  An incredible film, but I think like.

• 2:35:57David Sims?

  But it is obviously.

• 2:35:58Griffin Newman?

  And Gallipoli like truly has shot way up on my all-time war list, just watching it for the first time.

• 2:36:03David Sims?

  I mean, that's World War One.

• 2:36:04Speaker 04

  Saw it at Walter Reed with Peter Weir in attendance.

• 2:36:06Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:36:07Speaker 04

  We just, another war season one this year was The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Society. Speaking of Glenn Powell.

• 2:36:12David Sims?

  That is a movie that is weird.

• 2:36:15Speaker 04

  You know, it got brought up. You're like, oh, this will be really chill. And it's like, no, it's a better film than the Nazis. Yeah, but we, but it's important. It's actually quite fraught. But it's important to have for us, like, you don't want to watch this movie every night. You don't want to watch like an action.

• 2:36:28Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 2:36:29Speaker 04

  Oriented movie every night. So to have the occasional wartime romance, which are often, you know, quite nice. And then like, did you see Beast of War, the like Australian shark World War Two POW movie?

• 2:36:40Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 2:36:41Speaker 04

  It just came out. It's like a Shudder original that came out. It was maybe at festivals last year. It's a true story. It's like basically a bunch of Australian fighter pilots were just on a plane and then it goes down roughly 15 minutes into the movie.

• 2:36:52Griffin Newman?

  It doesn't even have a Wikipedia page.

• 2:36:55Speaker 04

  I was surprised. Didn't have a Wikipedia page. It's like a legit movie.

• 2:36:58Griffin Newman?

  Wow, sure.

• 2:36:58Speaker 04

  And, you know, it's like, it's like this, but on a boat, but with a shark.

• 2:37:02Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:03David Sims?

  I would say this looks a little less Tony than.

• 2:37:05Speaker 04

  No, no. So that was like, that was like a Saturday night, we're tired war movie.

• 2:37:09Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 2:37:10Speaker 04

  Sometimes you need something that's like horror or action.

• 2:37:14David Sims?

  Yeah, no, of course.

• 2:37:15Griffin Newman?

  This is why you're like, this is, we, when you come on the podcast, we want to make it count. And if, if the scheduling lines up where we can have you a couple of times in one year, then that's it. But I'm like, I'm sitting here and I'm just like, thank God, we got you on this one.

• 2:37:28David Sims?

  Yeah, fucking way back episode, which is just us otherwise being like, I mean, this is well-made and handsome. It didn't really resonate with us strongly.

• 2:37:34Speaker 04

  It is, but it's cold. You know what's a, you know what's a, you know what's a stink?

• 2:37:38Griffin Newman?

  Sometimes hot, but hot. Can we get Bombas to sponsor this one? This feels like one to really target, get the socks.

• 2:37:43Speaker 04

  Oh, my God, you're so right.

• 2:37:44David Sims?

  Bombas gave up on us.

• 2:37:46Griffin Newman?

  Really?

• 2:37:46David Sims?

  Come back, Bombas.

• 2:37:47Speaker 04

  They, um...

• 2:37:48David Sims?

  Yeah, it's been a minute.

• 2:37:49Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. What if for every one ad read we do for them, we do an ad read for a shitty business?

• 2:37:55Speaker 04

  They should've, they should've done a promo for this. You know it's a bad World War II movie that you guys might, uh, do someday?

• 2:38:01Griffin Newman?

  What?

• 2:38:01Speaker 04

  Although it seems not likely with the way voting goes, um, is Miracle at St. Anna. Like, a Spike Lee movie no one has seen.

• 2:38:08Griffin Newman?

  I've seen that movie.

• 2:38:09David Sims?

  I've seen that movie.

• 2:38:10Speaker 04

  It is...

• 2:38:10Griffin Newman?

  Oh, I mean, Defy Bloods is like one of my 10.

• 2:38:12Speaker 04

  Well, that's, I mean, well, Vietnam's a whole other thing.

• 2:38:14Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:38:15David Sims?

  No, but that movie is, is a failure. I mean, I haven't seen it, and I like Spike Lee, but it's one of his most, like, misshapen.

• 2:38:20Speaker 04

  Absolutely.

• 2:38:21David Sims?

  It has interesting stuff.

• 2:38:22Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:38:23David Sims?

  It's not like without merit, but it's, it's odd.

• 2:38:25Speaker 04

  It, it, it is nearly without merit.

• 2:38:28David Sims?

  Yeah, it's not very good. I can't really defend it.

• 2:38:30Speaker 04

  We were motivated to watch it years ago.

• 2:38:31David Sims?

  Well, because you're like, how could this be that bad? Like, this must be interesting.

• 2:38:34Speaker 04

  It must be something.

• 2:38:35David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:38:36Speaker 04

  Yeah. It, it, but it, you know, stuff like that can still get made, at least at this time. And it's a real...

• 2:38:41Griffin Newman?

  Even that's 2006?

• 2:38:43David Sims?

  That's him cashing his Inside Man check.

• 2:38:44Griffin Newman?

  And that's the Outside Man check?

• 2:38:45David Sims?

  It's like 9 or 10, but yeah, yeah.

• 2:38:47Griffin Newman?

  The difference between...

• 2:38:48David Sims?

  It's when he got in a fight with Clint Eastwood.

• 2:38:49Speaker 04

  Yeah. He's like, "I'll show, I'll show you."

• 2:38:51David Sims?

  Shut the hell up.

• 2:38:51Griffin Newman?

  Sure. But, but that's like the shift of like, he's one of the last guys who, A, like, Inside Man is enough of a blank check to get, to make that, and B, they let you make that under any conditions in the studio.

• 2:39:04Speaker 04

  Do you like the two Clint movies he's making that response to?

• 2:39:07Griffin Newman?

  Uh, I, I really, really disliked Flags of Our Fathers.

• 2:39:10David Sims?

  It's a good movie.

• 2:39:11Griffin Newman?

  And Iwo Jima, I like, respect it.

• 2:39:13David Sims?

  Iwo Jima's an incredible...

• 2:39:15Speaker 04

  Would it surprise, would it surprise you?

• 2:39:17Griffin Newman?

  I get this is good, I don't enjoy watching this.

• 2:39:18Speaker 04

  Would it surprise you for me to say that I really like Flags of Our Fathers and think Iwo Jima is a very bad movie?

• 2:39:23Griffin Newman?

  Wow.

• 2:39:24David Sims?

  It would surprise me a little bit, just the second part. Flags of Our Fathers is a good movie.

• 2:39:27Speaker 04

  Uh, Letters from Iwo Jima.

• 2:39:29David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:39:29Speaker 04

  Is, I think, the worst-looking movie I have ever seen that is made with any budget.

• 2:39:34David Sims?

  Well, it, it did not have much of a budget.

• 2:39:36Speaker 04

  No, but I'm talking like, yes, you could show me a $2,000 movie that looks worse. Whatever digital technology was being put in front of him at that time, it is the worst-looking movie that I think has been like made by a major Hollywood studio with a major director.

• 2:39:49David Sims?

  Comes in late, you know, you're like, "Is Alex out of hot takes?" And he's like, "One more."

• 2:39:53Speaker 04

  But it's strange because it was made concurrently with a movie that looks entirely different.

• 2:39:57Griffin Newman?

  See, I remember feeling...

• 2:39:58David Sims?

  I think you're being a little hard on Iwo Jima.

• 2:40:00Griffin Newman?

  I also, I remember feeling that way about Flags of Our Fathers. I remember seeing that in theaters and being like, "I hate the way this fucking looks." This movie is like so blunt, over the head, restating every thematic point six times. I thought like, across the board, most of the cast is bad. Like, I felt like it was basically wall-to-wall bad performances.

• 2:40:18David Sims?

  It has a little bit of the Clint cast faces problem where it's like, yeah, not all the actors are that good.

• 2:40:24Griffin Newman?

  And, and, and the script is so unsubtle that it would need massaging to bring the performances down to something specific. And instead you got Ryan Phillippe like kind of walking through it.

• 2:40:33David Sims?

  They kind of got railroaded though, those guys.

• 2:40:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, a little bit.

• 2:40:35Griffin Newman?

  Those guys got railroaded.

• 2:40:36David Sims?

  A little bit, so it's pretty interesting.

• 2:40:38Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:40:39David Sims?

  But I, I have it mid to low on my Clint list.

• 2:40:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. I mean, I'm just realizing in this conversation that every war film that I would say I love is a movie that basically by narrative design obfuscates the war to some degree.

• 2:40:54Speaker 04

  But you like Vietnam movies?

• 2:40:56Griffin Newman?

  Well, do I like all Vietnam movies?

• 2:40:58Speaker 04

  Yes, all of them.

• 2:40:59Griffin Newman?

  Yes, you're right. I like all Vietnam movies. We all know that my favorite movie of all time is All Is Lost, and I like all Vietnam films.

• 2:41:06Speaker 04

  It's too bad you'll never cover any of them on this show, thanks to people voting down all of them.

• 2:41:11David Sims?

  I mean, if, obviously, Father of a Stone won, we would be covering half of all Vietnam movies. I don't love Vietnam movies. That, that is one of my less favorite war genres, but there are some great Vietnam movies, obviously.

• 2:41:21Griffin Newman?

  I think, I think there's, we, it is likely we cover Spike eventually. I'm trying to think who else has a Vietnam movie we haven't covered. I mean, do we do?

• 2:41:28Speaker 04

  Forrest Gump, the great Vietnam.

• 2:41:30David Sims?

  We could do Michael Chirino.

• 2:41:30Speaker 04

  Do Forrest Gump again?

• 2:41:31Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:41:32David Sims?

  I'm not doing Forrest Gump again.

• 2:41:33Griffin Newman?

  We could do Gump. No, but his movies as a director.

• 2:41:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:41:36David Sims?

  Oh, yeah, of course.

• 2:41:37Speaker 04

  The interesting thing about a lot of these World War II tropes is like, they stopped making World War II movies during Vietnam largely. Because the idea of making like celebratory ra-ra.

• 2:41:47David Sims?

  People weren't in the mood, right.

• 2:41:48Speaker 04

  Men on a Mission movies went away.

• 2:41:49Griffin Newman?

  Coppola.

• 2:41:51David Sims?

  I've heard of him.

• 2:41:52Speaker 04

  De Palma is in.

• 2:41:53Griffin Newman?

  De Palma? Yeah.

• 2:41:54David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:41:54Speaker 04

  But De Palma, to me, he's another one of these guys like we're that the ignominious end of his distribution and his opportunities is just such a bummer.

• 2:42:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:42:03David Sims?

  And De Palma's tough. I mean, supposedly he's working on something now.

• 2:42:06Griffin Newman?

  Would it be good? I don't know.

• 2:42:08Speaker 04

  Like, how can, how can he go from

• 2:42:10Griffin Newman?

  It's, it's hard to-

• 2:42:11Speaker 04

  Mission Impossible to like not being able to get a movie made?

• 2:42:13Griffin Newman?

  It's hard to end a series on The Ward. You know, it is a thing we try to avoid.

• 2:42:18Speaker 04

  I think this is as good of a final film as my vague recollection of every final film you've covered. If you're saying definitively final ones.

• 2:42:26Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Yeah. And like a guy sort of choosing to call it.

• 2:42:31Speaker 04

  No one's going to stand up for this movie and be like, actually, that's Peter Weir's secret masterpieces. But, you know, the basement on final movies in the mini-series is, is quite low.

• 2:42:41Griffin Newman?

  Operation Dumbo Drop. I'm looking through a list of Vietnam films. We do need to cover that. And who directed that? Was that Orson Welles? Uh, it was Orson Welles. No, of course it was Simon Wintser. Oh, yeah.

• 2:42:51Speaker 04

  Ben, Operation Dumbo Drop?

• 2:42:52Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Never seen it.

• 2:42:53Speaker 04

  This is the best thing about Ben-

• 2:42:54Griffin Newman?

  They got to drop an elephant.

• 2:42:55Speaker 04

  Ben's choice that, um, Ben hasn't seen is like my, that's a mini-series perhaps, like a Patriot.

• 2:43:00Griffin Newman?

  We have, Griff, I will remind you.

• 2:43:02Speaker 04

  This came up when it was revealed Ben had never seen Bushwhacked.

• 2:43:04Griffin Newman?

  We've covered a Wintser. We've covered one Wintser. Yes. Crocodile Dundee in Los Angeles. He did go to Los Angeles.

• 2:43:10Speaker 04

  When there's a movie that is so-

• 2:43:11Griffin Newman?

  And we might cover the Phantom one day.

• 2:43:12Speaker 04

  So tailor-made for Ben and he just for some reason missed it.

• 2:43:15Griffin Newman?

  It is bizarre that he didn't see Bushwhacked.

• 2:43:17Speaker 04

  How'd you miss Dumbo Drop?

• 2:43:19Griffin Newman?

  Dumbo Drop is good. I don't know. Do you know, do you want to know what, Dumbo Drop is the big three. I think we're gonna play the box. Danny Glover, Dennis Leary, and Ray Liotta. And their job is to get an elephant across.

• 2:43:32Speaker 04

  I've never seen it. Don't look at me.

• 2:43:33Griffin Newman?

  I have seen it. I saw it at a birthday party.

• 2:43:34Griffin Newman?

  It's kind of the way back with an elephant. They're like walking the elephant by foot. And then at a certain point, they're like, this is taking too long. We gotta get the elephant in a plane. And then drop the elephant with a parachute in, into its final landing spot. Yeah, it's, uh, where is it? It's probably one of the five best movies ever made.

• 2:43:52Speaker 04

  The recent Vietnam movie that I didn't see was the, uh, the Farrelly one. The greatest beer run.

• 2:43:56Griffin Newman?

  Oh, sure. I'm surprised you haven't seen that.

• 2:43:58Speaker 04

  Uh, don't be.

• 2:43:59Griffin Newman?

  Really?

• 2:44:00Speaker 04

  Uh, yeah, don't be surprised. I haven't seen that. Why would I see that?

• 2:44:03David Sims?

  You like war movies. You watch them endlessly.

• 2:44:05Speaker 04

  No, no, no. If that movie was about World-

• 2:44:07David Sims?

  You just said that you watch war movies all the fucking time.

• 2:44:09Speaker 04

  No, no, World War II movies. I am not encyclopedic about Vietnam.

• 2:44:11Griffin Newman?

  Fair enough. You don't fuck with Vietnam. Okay.

• 2:44:13Speaker 04

  I do, but we certainly don't favor those movies. There's way less variety in the-

• 2:44:19David Sims?

  I agree.

• 2:44:19Speaker 04

  There's so much less variety.

• 2:44:20David Sims?

  They tend to be one to two kinds of movies. Yes.

• 2:44:22Speaker 04

  Yes, and the sort of, but you know, similar to World War II, I think one of the better genres of the Vietnam movie is the soldier after Vietnam, which is what you like, Griffin.

• 2:44:31Griffin Newman?

  Well, that's a good- But no, but what I'm reali- yes, yes, it's exactly what you're saying. I'm looking through the Vietnam list here, and it is like, I like PTSD movies. Because that's an emotional story in the wake of war.

• 2:44:41Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:44:41Griffin Newman?

  Even if it starts with active warfare.

• 2:44:43David Sims?

  What's my favorite war movie? I don't know. I love war movies so much. I'm like, Alex. And I like any movie that makes me Google ship.

• 2:44:52Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:44:52David Sims?

  Now, do I need every movie to be like that? No. But The Way Back where I can be like, and how many people do live in Mongolia? Like, I love to do that.

• 2:44:59Speaker 04

  But see, this is the-

• 2:45:00Griffin Newman?

  That for me gets into what Ben would call a homework movie.

• 2:45:02Speaker 04

  But this is the interesting thing that we love splitting the difference on of curating war season is like, there's movies that, like Nuremberg, that you're like, this is one to one. This is a Hollywoodized version of a, everyone in this movie is a real person. And then there's stuff like this where it's like, these are, this is sort of based on a thing. And what really went out of vogue, kind of post Saving Private Ryan for a long time, even though that movie is fictional, was making these big ticket war movies of like, no, we just made this up.

• 2:45:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:45:36Speaker 04

  It became much more popular in the 2000s to really like, be like, this is a true story.

• 2:45:41Griffin Newman?

  Based on true-

• 2:45:42Speaker 04

  We're adapting a memoir, we're adapting something true. Whereas prior to that, Schindler's List was almost like an outlier.

• 2:45:48Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:45:48Speaker 04

  Where a lot of these movies, even Music Box, which I just watched, are like, well, it's kind of inspired by this thing, but like, mostly we're just trying to tell a good story. And then it becomes like-

• 2:45:55Griffin Newman?

  Did Schindler fully turn it because it was like the profundity?

• 2:45:58Speaker 04

  There just weren't World War II movies before that for a long time at this level. They were being made in other countries, and there's a lot of good foreign war films in the 80s, and France was making a lot, and they sort of tried to grapple with their horrible history. America just, Vietnam was in vogue for over a decade, kind of until Schindler's List made World War II big business.

• 2:46:17David Sims?

  Well, and it's also the generation starts to shift and like, boomers want to watch World War II movies because their, their parents served in World War, you know, like, it's, it's just, that's how one day maybe we'll get more-

• 2:46:29Griffin Newman?

  We're probably like 10 years away. More films about the Clone Wars now that cyclically, it's kind of coming back.

• 2:46:35Speaker 04

  Well, it's like, it's like anything. The, the distance between these things started getting really short.

• 2:46:39Griffin Newman?

  Have nothing for that?

• 2:46:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, I mean, it's not a joke. That's a great statement.

• 2:46:42Griffin Newman?

  Okay, thank you.

• 2:46:42Speaker 04

  Very astute.

• 2:46:43Griffin Newman?

  That's what I wanted. I wanted profundity points.

• 2:46:45Speaker 04

  But to us, we do love David's Googling of like, what is this movie based on?

• 2:46:50Griffin Newman?

  We do love David's Googling.

• 2:46:51Speaker 04

  Thank you. Because we, we enjoy like kind of comparing like, oh, so I looked it up. It turns out like, like Charlotte Gray, the Cate Blanchett movie. Like, you know.

• 2:47:01Speaker 04

  Where it's like, this is a true story. This is like some remarkable figure who needs a biopic versus the ones that tend to be like, this is a kind of interpretation of life during wartime in fill in the blank.

• 2:47:15David Sims?

  Just to be clear, Charlotte Gray is not about a real person, but it is based on a novel.

• 2:47:19Speaker 04

  Wait, what's the other one? There's another one with a nearly identical title.

• 2:47:22Griffin Newman?

  Veronica Guerin?

• 2:47:23Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 2:47:23David Sims?

  That's the IRA movie.

• 2:47:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:47:25Speaker 04

  Right, right.

• 2:47:25Griffin Newman?

  She's a journalist.

• 2:47:26Speaker 04

  I'm getting those confused.

• 2:47:27Griffin Newman?

  Okay. What am I talking about? My favorite war movie of all time is Small Soldiers.

• 2:47:30David Sims?

  Yes, of course.

• 2:47:31Griffin Newman?

  And that's based on a true story.

• 2:47:32David Sims?

  The War of That Kid's House.

• 2:47:34Griffin Newman?

  Alan Abernathy.

• 2:47:35David Sims?

  January 21st, 2011.

• 2:47:37Speaker 04

  These are gonna be rough. This is a terrible.

• 2:47:39David Sims?

  That's why it's a fun box office game. The Way Back is opening.

• 2:47:42Griffin Newman?

  January 2011, okay.

• 2:47:43Speaker 04

  Number one.

• 2:47:44David Sims?

  Number 15 on 678 screens to 1.2 million dollars and it's gonna leg that out, leg that out to 2.7 million dollars. It's not a great showing.

• 2:47:54Speaker 04

  A third of a Black Hat?

• 2:47:55David Sims?

  It makes, it's about a third of a Black Hat.

• 2:47:56Speaker 04

  What is it? A Black Hat's 6.5?

• 2:47:58David Sims?

  Yeah. It makes 24.1 worldwide, so it's a little better overseas, unsurprisingly, I guess.

• 2:48:05Speaker 04

  Civilized countries, yeah, still appreciate it.

• 2:48:06David Sims?

  Number one at the box office is kind of like.

• 2:48:09Speaker 04

  Was that its widest? Did it go beyond 600?

• 2:48:11David Sims?

  It's a good question.

• 2:48:12Speaker 04

  Is it like immediately down to 700?

• 2:48:13David Sims?

  Cause I feel like they're like, okay, we'll expand it. Like, and then it's like, no, we won't be expanding it. That, that was its widest. 678 screens, theaters.

• 2:48:22David Sims?

  So number one is, I would say a film that's like kind of tonally very similar to The Way Back and, you know, has the same kind of energy.

• 2:48:30Speaker 04

  He's joking.

• 2:48:30David Sims?

  I'm joking. It's a comedy.

• 2:48:32Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:48:33David Sims?

  It's opening number one to 19.6 million dollars. Right at the start of January, America's like, we want to laugh.

• 2:48:40Speaker 04

  Ready to laugh.

• 2:48:40David Sims?

  And we want to see some romance.

• 2:48:42Griffin Newman?

  It's not a Freeburg Seltzer.

• 2:48:43David Sims?

  No.

• 2:48:44Griffin Newman?

  It is a romantic comedy.

• 2:48:45David Sims?

  Much classier than that. It's a romantic comedy from a, a very well-known director.

• 2:48:49Speaker 04

  Is it a Gary Marshall?

• 2:48:50David Sims?

  No, but. You know, it's sort of like an old hand.

• 2:48:54Griffin Newman?

  It's an old-

• 2:48:55David Sims?

  Not quite as old as Gary Marshall.

• 2:48:57Griffin Newman?

  Uh-

• 2:48:57David Sims?

  But he only had one more film left in him after this one.

• 2:48:59Griffin Newman?

  He only had one more film left in him after this film. Tell me about the stars of this picture. Well, first, who's the distributor of this fine film?

• 2:49:04David Sims?

  Of course, it's from the great people at Paramount Pictures.

• 2:49:07Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:49:08Speaker 04

  When, when was this director most active?

• 2:49:10David Sims?

  The eighties.

• 2:49:11Speaker 04

  An eighties director?

• 2:49:12Griffin Newman?

  An eighties director who's only got one left in him. And tell me about the stars of the picture?

• 2:49:16David Sims?

  Well, there's a lovely lady and a handsome young man. Now, the lovely lady is about to win an Academy Award.

• 2:49:23Griffin Newman?

  Okay, interesting.

• 2:49:25David Sims?

  This threatened to be her norbit.

• 2:49:26Griffin Newman?

  This is No Strings Attached.

• 2:49:28David Sims?

  That's right. With Natalie Portman and Ashton Kutcher and Ivan Reitman, of course, would then make draft day and be so exhausted by the ego of one of the stars on that movie-

• 2:49:36Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:49:36David Sims?

  That he retired.

• 2:49:37Speaker 04

  That was his, that was his way back.

• 2:49:39Griffin Newman?

  That was his way back.

• 2:49:40David Sims?

  He was like, "I can't deal with Griffin Newman asking me endless intern questions."

• 2:49:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:49:45David Sims?

  Saying, "We have to stop for five minutes so I connect to the office."

• 2:49:48Griffin Newman?

  I had to take a long walk down that hallway and try not to spill coffee, and I failed.

• 2:49:53Speaker 04

  Congratulations on being able to differentiate No Strings Attached and, uh, whatever the other one is.

• 2:49:58Griffin Newman?

  Friends of Benefits. That's a summer release.

• 2:50:00David Sims?

  Friends of Benefits is the other one, but the reason is everyone sort of remembers, everyone just thinks they're both called No Strings Attached. No Strings Attached, the title people-

• 2:50:07Griffin Newman?

  It's a better title.

• 2:50:07David Sims?

  It's also the better of those two films, as I always remind people. It's pretty fun.

• 2:50:11Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:50:11David Sims?

  Pretty fun.

• 2:50:12Speaker 04

  Oh, and I have presents to give Griffin before we wrap up.

• 2:50:14Griffin Newman?

  Oh, no, don't-

• 2:50:15David Sims?

  Don't worry about it.

• 2:50:15Griffin Newman?

  Think I've forgotten about that.

• 2:50:16David Sims?

  Number two at the box office is a film that came out a week earlier, so truly at the top of January. Opened fairly well. It's an action superhero movie.

• 2:50:25Griffin Newman?

  Hmm.

• 2:50:26David Sims?

  Did okay.

• 2:50:27Speaker 04

  What, uh, what is the origin of the superhero?

• 2:50:29Griffin Newman?

  Is it The Green Hornet?

• 2:50:30David Sims?

  It's The Green Hornet.

• 2:50:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:50:31Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 2:50:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:50:32David Sims?

  So-

• 2:50:32Speaker 04

  That was a January release.

• 2:50:34David Sims?

  Like a January, like, second release.

• 2:50:36Griffin Newman?

  That was, right, that was a big thing, was it had a summer release date, then they announced they were pushing it back six months in order to put 3D, post-conversion 3D on it, and release it in January, and people were like, "Oh, fucking dumping ground. Is this thing like..."

• 2:50:51David Sims?

  And it did pretty good.

• 2:50:51Griffin Newman?

  And then it did well.

• 2:50:52David Sims?

  Yeah. Made a hundred million dollars.

• 2:50:55Speaker 04

  Would that be, wait, you didn't do Pulp Heroes yet?

• 2:50:58David Sims?

  No.

• 2:50:59Speaker 04

  Would that count? But that's like TV, you know?

• 2:51:01David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:51:02Speaker 04

  Pulp Heroes is like fucking radio and comic books. It's Shadow, Phantom, Dick Tracy. I put Green Hornet in that.

• 2:51:07Griffin Newman?

  Well, also, we all remember who directed Green Hornet.

• 2:51:09David Sims?

  Michelle Gaultier?

• 2:51:10Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:51:11David Sims?

  We're not doing his ass anytime soon.

• 2:51:12Speaker 04

  Speaking of being broken.

• 2:51:13Griffin Newman?

  Do you want to do Macrob and Gasoline?

• 2:51:15Speaker 04

  The wee and the eye? Come on, David. The pod and the cast.

• 2:51:19Griffin Newman?

  Mood Indigo? These are heater episodes.

• 2:51:23Speaker 04

  I just want more like of the energy of Ben getting to do like the 90s comics and I listened to the Mortal Kombat episode. Like, that's just such a...

• 2:51:32David Sims?

  We're offering a lot of that energy. I would not worry.

• 2:51:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:51:36David Sims?

  Uh, number three at the box office is another comedy.

• 2:51:39Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:51:40David Sims?

  Uh, star-driven from a big director.

• 2:51:43Griffin Newman?

  Is it a holdover from December or is it? It's a January release.

• 2:51:45David Sims?

  It came out, it came out, uh, I guess, a week before.

• 2:51:50Griffin Newman?

  Okay. It opened against Green Hornet.

• 2:51:51David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:51:52Griffin Newman?

  It's a big director.

• 2:51:53David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:51:53Griffin Newman?

  It's a January comedy.

• 2:51:54David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:51:55Griffin Newman?

  Distributor?

• 2:51:57David Sims?

  Uh, Universal.

• 2:51:59Griffin Newman?

  It's Universal.

• 2:52:00David Sims?

  And this director usually works at Universal.

• 2:52:02Griffin Newman?

  This director usually works with Universal.

• 2:52:04David Sims?

  Especially at this hour, this time.

• 2:52:05Griffin Newman?

  I would say so, especially at this time.

• 2:52:07David Sims?

  I think his, his production company was sort of...

• 2:52:10Speaker 04

  Comedy director?

• 2:52:11David Sims?

  Or jack of all trades?

• 2:52:12Speaker 04

  No, well, he made a lot of comedies, but no, but he's at this point a prestige director.

• 2:52:16Griffin Newman?

  No, say no more. It's Ron Howard's The Dilemma.

• 2:52:19David Sims?

  That's right.

• 2:52:19Griffin Newman?

  Which was a bit of a flop.

• 2:52:20David Sims?

  It was a bit of a flop, but it's a bad movie.

• 2:52:22Griffin Newman?

  But, um, Kevin James had hit so hard with Paul Blart in January that they were trying to make him the king of January.

• 2:52:29David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:52:30Griffin Newman?

  And this was a hot project. The cast of that movie is so bizarrely stacked.

• 2:52:34Speaker 04

  James Uary.

• 2:52:35David Sims?

  Uh, you've got Jennifer Connelly, Winona Ryder, Channing Tatum, Queen Latifah.

• 2:52:39Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:52:40Speaker 04

  How could it be bad?

• 2:52:41David Sims?

  I think it's definitely bad.

• 2:52:43Griffin Newman?

  As Sean Fennessy would say, it is in fact quite poor.

• 2:52:46David Sims?

  Quite poor. Um, but, uh, and just one of those things where the poster is just like Kevin James.

• 2:52:51Speaker 04

  Wait, wait, wait. Is there a guy on the post? Does Vaughn have his hand over his head?

• 2:52:54David Sims?

  Both of his hands.

• 2:52:55Speaker 04

  Both of his hands.

• 2:52:56Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, he's like, I don't know what to do about this.

• 2:52:57Speaker 04

  This is one of those movies.

• 2:52:58David Sims?

  I've got a dilemma brewing.

• 2:52:59Speaker 04

  That had an ad above my subway stop?

• 2:53:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:53:02Speaker 04

  Like that they just left up.

• 2:53:03David Sims?

  But it's like Kevin James is just smiling like an idiot.

• 2:53:07Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:53:08David Sims?

  Like Kevin James looks like he was born two seconds ago.

• 2:53:11Griffin Newman?

  I mean, do you guys remember what the premise of the movie is?

• 2:53:13David Sims?

  And Vince Vaughn is like, do I have to tell? Yes, he sees his wife kissing Vince Vaughn's friends. Yes, Kevin James's wife kissing somebody.

• 2:53:21Griffin Newman?

  The entire movie? Uh, yes.

• 2:53:23David Sims?

  Yeah, and like, do I tell him or not?

• 2:53:25Griffin Newman?

  Kevin James is married to Winona Ryder.

• 2:53:27David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:53:27Griffin Newman?

  Winona Ryder is having an affair with Channing Tatum. Vince Vaughn witnesses it, and the whole movie is him being like, do I tell my friend or not?

• 2:53:35Speaker 04

  Oh, my God.

• 2:53:35Griffin Newman?

  It's gonna make him feel bad. And it's one of those things where you're just like, fucking tell him. This isn't an interesting conflict.

• 2:53:41David Sims?

  Stop talking about it.

• 2:53:43Speaker 04

  I wanna.

• 2:53:44David Sims?

  Either way, go away.

• 2:53:45Griffin Newman?

  Which do you think is the better act as a friend? Decide that and stick to it.

• 2:53:50Speaker 04

  Quite a dilemma.

• 2:53:51David Sims?

  No, it's a dilemma.

• 2:53:52Speaker 04

  You'd never do, Howard.

• 2:53:54Griffin Newman?

  It's so long.

• 2:53:55David Sims?

  It's so long.

• 2:53:55Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:53:56Griffin Newman?

  Um.

• 2:53:56Speaker 04

  Uh, let me pause just to keep the games. Let me pause the game so people have a reason to keep listening.

• 2:54:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:54:01Speaker 04

  So I am leaving these. This is gonna be like a reverse, uh, a memento kind of story. I'm gonna leave these Blu-rays for Tracy Lutz.

• 2:54:07David Sims?

  Oh, yeah, of course.

• 2:54:08Griffin Newman?

  Right, right, right.

• 2:54:09David Sims?

  Well, we're recording with Tracy, uh.

• 2:54:10Griffin Newman?

  So it will have happened.

• 2:54:11Speaker 04

  This will have paid off, hopefully. I'm leaving three sealed Blu-rays, two of which are reference quality of my own films, to contribute to, less because I think he'll watch these, but more like it's almost a badge of honor to have these in the archives.

• 2:54:24Griffin Newman?

  So this is Vinegar Syndrome, Her Smell and Pavements.

• 2:54:27Speaker 04

  Vinegar Syndrome Pavements, and then the British Eureka Masters of Cinema. Listen up, Philip, which is the only Blu-ray release of it ever.

• 2:54:33Griffin Newman?

  And it's a Blu-ray DVD combo pack?

• 2:54:35Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah. Dual format edition, contains both Blu-ray and DVD editions, and because of rights issues, this can't be issued on Blu-ray in America.

• 2:54:43Griffin Newman?

  You've been trying to work this out, right?

• 2:54:45David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:54:46Speaker 04

  Can't be done.

• 2:54:46Griffin Newman?

  Do you know what Ben has purchased for Tracy Lutz?

• 2:54:49Speaker 04

  No, I'd like to know.

• 2:54:50Griffin Newman?

  I think Ben might go three for three.

• 2:54:52Speaker 04

  Well, he's definitely, I'm, I'm definitely going three for three. I'm gonna write him a nice note, too. I'm gonna toss this goodie bag to Griffin.

• 2:54:57Griffin Newman?

  Great.

• 2:54:58Speaker 04

  And this is, you know what half of this is, but it'll still be fun.

• 2:55:00David Sims?

  Um, so I bought for Tracy Ace Ventura Pet Detective.

• 2:55:05Griffin Newman?

  Steelbook.

• 2:55:06Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 2:55:07Griffin Newman?

  4K steelbook.

• 2:55:07Speaker 04

  A recent release.

• 2:55:09David Sims?

  Spawn.

• 2:55:10Speaker 04

  Nice.

• 2:55:10Griffin Newman?

  Arrow 4K.

• 2:55:12David Sims?

  Sort of, and that's Ben, like. Sharing his culture with Tracy.

• 2:55:14Speaker 03

  Sure, yeah, sure.

• 2:55:15Griffin Newman?

  And then, of course, naturally, trash humpers.

• 2:55:18Speaker 04

  Nice.

• 2:55:19David Sims?

  Which maybe Tracy has that one.

• 2:55:20Griffin Newman?

  It's the one I think he's.

• 2:55:21Speaker 04

  Feels like he would have open contempt for the work of Harmony Karim.

• 2:55:24David Sims?

  I might imagine it's not his cover.

• 2:55:26Speaker 04

  When you give him spawn, make sure he's looking at, at.

• 2:55:29Griffin Newman?

  I will, right, I'll have it.

• 2:55:30Speaker 04

  But yeah.

• 2:55:30Griffin Newman?

  He'll add it to the display.

• 2:55:32Speaker 04

  This will hopefully not have paid off in like shame and confusion.

• 2:55:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:55:35Speaker 04

  This bit that I'm now contributing to, because one of my favorite razzings of Sean is in the like YouTube clip of Big Picture when Tracy was like, what's the name of the director with three names and Sean without pausing just goes, Paul Thomas Anderson. And he goes, no, no, the one who's on your shelf.

• 2:55:54Griffin Newman?

  David, do you think you're gonna have a chance to buy discs?

• 2:55:56David Sims?

  That's my plan.

• 2:55:57Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:55:58David Sims?

  Why? Do you want to just leave it to Ben? I don't know. I'm trying to sneak there.

• 2:56:00Griffin Newman?

  No, no, now that I've tested it.

• 2:56:01David Sims?

  I was trying to go yesterday, but then I realized I closed on Monday.

• 2:56:03Speaker 04

  Where would you go?

• 2:56:04David Sims?

  Night Owl.

• 2:56:05Speaker 04

  Oh, right, right. I see. But yes, even to contribute to the archive of his would be an honor.

• 2:56:11Griffin Newman?

  I'm, I'm still getting my.

• 2:56:11Speaker 04

  It's like getting to lay a commemorative brick.

• 2:56:13David Sims?

  I mean, I can also dig around in my collection because I have a fair amount of dupes, but I'm like.

• 2:56:17Griffin Newman?

  I think it has to be sealed. I think it has to be sealed.

• 2:56:20Speaker 03

  If you send me a list on my way home today, I can stop by.

• 2:56:24David Sims?

  Uh, but I was just, I was hoping to go in vibe.

• 2:56:26Griffin Newman?

  I think you gotta go in.

• 2:56:27Speaker 04

  This is like one of my all time worst bits, which is the, the bit that king sized candy is an offering to the king from his subjects. Which I, you know, like that, that's kind of what we're doing here. This offering to the true emperor of physical media.

• 2:56:41Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:56:41Speaker 04

  And you make an offering, you can't give him your used.

• 2:56:44David Sims?

  Just to finish, just to finish.

• 2:56:46Speaker 04

  And then Griffin can open this.

• 2:56:47David Sims?

  I mean, to be fair, Tracy shows up with like his dupes and throws them at Chris Ryan.

• 2:56:52Speaker 04

  For him to do it.

• 2:56:52David Sims?

  Of course, he's.

• 2:56:53Griffin Newman?

  And I think most of his dupes are sealed.

• 2:56:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, these are sealed.

• 2:56:56David Sims?

  I imagine.

• 2:56:57Speaker 04

  These are offerings from other subjects that he has no need for. The king can throw his scraps to his subjects.

• 2:57:03David Sims?

  Number four at the box office wins best picture in a couple of months.

• 2:57:06Griffin Newman?

  The King's Speech, that's right.

• 2:57:07David Sims?

  And number five is.

• 2:57:08Griffin Newman?

  What's it up to at this point?

• 2:57:09David Sims?

  Fifty seven.

• 2:57:10Griffin Newman?

  And it's gonna make it to a hundred and thirty?

• 2:57:12David Sims?

  Hundred and thirty five.

• 2:57:13Speaker 04

  Has Epstein gotten his DVD of it yet by this point, do we? When was that email sent?

• 2:57:17David Sims?

  Number five at the box office.

• 2:57:18Griffin Newman?

  I think he has not gotten it yet. It is crazy to consider that it's still, in January, he used to have a thing. That was 80 million away from its eventual box office total.

• 2:57:28David Sims?

  Oh, that's fair.

• 2:57:29Griffin Newman?

  Because of a best picture bump.

• 2:57:30David Sims?

  I thought you were gonna talk about Jeffrey Epstein and I was about to pick up my stop sign. Number-

• 2:57:33Griffin Newman?

  The New York financier?

• 2:57:34David Sims?

  Yeah, number five at the box office is a film from Alex's favorite directors, who he said such lovely things about on this episode. Their biggest hit ever. Also a 2010 Best Picture nominee.

• 2:57:44Griffin Newman?

  Their?

• 2:57:46Speaker 04

  True Grit.

• 2:57:46David Sims?

  I gave it away.

• 2:57:47Speaker 04

  I think maybe my favorite Coen Brothers movie.

• 2:57:49David Sims?

  Incredible.

• 2:57:50Speaker 04

  I love this movie.

• 2:57:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:57:51David Sims?

  You've also got Black Swan, as mentioned, so Natalie's got two.

• 2:57:54Speaker 04

  I'm excited for people to respond to that take of mine. I love-

• 2:57:58Griffin Newman?

  A True Grit is your favorite?

• 2:57:59Speaker 04

  No, no, just the earlier thoughts.

• 2:58:00David Sims?

  Yeah, they'll be really, really even handed about it.

• 2:58:02Speaker 04

  Just that I think Fargo is like, good.

• 2:58:05David Sims?

  Number seven-

• 2:58:05Griffin Newman?

  What is Black Swan up to at this point?

• 2:58:06David Sims?

  Uh, Black Swan's up to 83, so it's also got some run to go.

• 2:58:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:58:09David Sims?

  Uh, Little, The Little Fockers are on their way out of the theaters.

• 2:58:13Griffin Newman?

  Oh, those troublemakers.

• 2:58:14Speaker 04

  So much comedy.

• 2:58:14David Sims?

  Number nine-

• 2:58:15Speaker 04

  So much comedy.

• 2:58:16David Sims?

  So much fucking comedy, although undeniably not Hollywood's best comedies.

• 2:58:20Griffin Newman?

  Well, none of this is-

• 2:58:21David Sims?

  When you're like, I wonder why Hollywood stopped making comedies, and you're like, The Dilemma, Little Fockers, like, oh, boy.

• 2:58:27Griffin Newman?

  Little, Little Fockers makes it to a soft 100 domestic.

• 2:58:29David Sims?

  Yeah. No, no, no, Little Fockers made 148 domestic.

• 2:58:32Griffin Newman?

  That's insane.

• 2:58:33David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:58:34Griffin Newman?

  Friends with Benefits makes it to like 80 or 90 domestic?

• 2:58:36David Sims?

  Are you talking about No Strings Attached?

• 2:58:37Griffin Newman?

  Fuck, yes. I gotta write the first one.

• 2:58:39David Sims?

  That made it to 70 domestic.

• 2:58:41Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:58:41David Sims?

  150 worldwide.

• 2:58:42Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:58:43David Sims?

  Yeah, so like, okay.

• 2:58:44Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:58:45David Sims?

  And The Dilemma, which obviously was a bomb-

• 2:58:48Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:58:48David Sims?

  -made 48 domestic.

• 2:58:49Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:58:50David Sims?

  So that's flop territory, but only because of the big-

• 2:58:52Speaker 04

  Weir would have killed for that on this film.

• 2:58:53Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:58:53David Sims?

  Well, yeah.

• 2:58:54Griffin Newman?

  Also, like, most studio comedies would kill for 48 domestic now, and that was seen as a disaster.

• 2:58:59David Sims?

  I mean, it was, I'm sure-

• 2:59:00Speaker 04

  I can't believe how little money The Wayback made.

• 2:59:02Griffin Newman?

  It's crazy.

• 2:59:03David Sims?

  Uh, number eight is The Fighter. I can't, nobody wanted to see that shit. Um, and I liked, uh, number eight's The Fighter. Number nine is Yogi Bear.

• 2:59:09Griffin Newman?

  What's Fighter at?

• 2:59:11David Sims?

  Fighter is at 72.

• 2:59:12Griffin Newman?

  And it makes it to 110?

• 2:59:13David Sims?

  Yogi Bear's at 88. Fighter makes it to-

• 2:59:15Griffin Newman?

  Does Fighter stay at 90 something?

• 2:59:17David Sims?

  93.

• 2:59:17Griffin Newman?

  93.

• 2:59:18David Sims?

  And number 10 is, of course, the comedy of 2010, number one, uh, Tron Legacy. I love that movie. My digital jazz man. That's right. You also have-

• 2:59:27Speaker 04

  When are you going to splice in the, uh, the rankings?

• 2:59:30David Sims?

  Uh, good point.

• 2:59:31Griffin Newman?

  Well, I'll tell you when we're gonna splice him in. Right here.

• 2:59:33David Sims?

  Here are our rankings for Peter Weir.

• 2:59:41Griffin Newman?

  Okay, this is the pickup on our ranking now that I've rewatched Master and Commander, and we have recorded all the episodes. David?

• 2:59:46David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:59:47Griffin Newman?

  Do you want to go first?

• 2:59:49David Sims?

  This is a very hard one. I don't know if you've found that, Griffin?

• 2:59:51Griffin Newman?

  Incredibly difficult?

• 2:59:52David Sims?

  Because it's a lot of great movies, a lot of movies I admire for different reasons.

• 2:59:57Griffin Newman?

  And like centimeters in between these positions.

• 2:59:59David Sims?

  Yeah, a hundred percent.

• 3:00:01Griffin Newman?

  It's basically interchangeable. Did you include The Plumber or not?

• 3:00:04David Sims?

  I included The Plumber.

• 3:00:05Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 3:00:06David Sims?

  Um, so, my list is, and really, it's tough.

• 3:00:11Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:00:11David Sims?

  Because, yeah, a lot of these are fun. Number one, Master and Commander. That was not tough.

• 3:00:17Griffin Newman?

  Sure. You're going from top down?

• 3:00:20David Sims?

  One to top, one to down. Number two, The Truman Show. Number three, Witness. Number four, Picnic and Hanging Rock. Those three are all movies I just think are sublime, and they all felt a little interchangeable to me. Number five, Fearless. Number six, Green Card. Number seven, Mosquito Coast. Number eight, Last Wave. Number nine, Year of Living Dangerously. Number 10, Gallipoli. Those are all movies I think are pretty interesting and tremendous.

• 3:00:46Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:00:47David Sims?

  I'm sure yours list is different from mine.

• 3:00:49Griffin Newman?

  It is. Although, you know what's interesting? I mean, Master and Commander is unsurprisingly lower for me, but then our rankings are the same for the next couple.

• 3:00:56David Sims?

  That's interesting, okay.

• 3:00:57Griffin Newman?

  I have Truman at number one, Witness at number two, Picnic and Hang Rock, number three. Agree with that block you just established. Then I have Fearless at number four, which is the same as you minus Master and Commander at the top of that list, right?

• 3:01:10David Sims?

  And where do you have Master and Commander?

• 3:01:12Griffin Newman?

  I have Gallipoli at five.

• 3:01:13David Sims?

  Jesus, this is so fucked up and insane.

• 3:01:15Griffin Newman?

  Mosquito Coast at six, Master and Commander at seven, Last Wave at eight, Green Card at nine, Year of Living Dangerously at 10.

• 3:01:23David Sims?

  And then I have my last four are Way Back at 11, Plumber at 12, Cars That Ate Paris at 13, Dead Poets Society at 14.

• 3:01:31Griffin Newman?

  Wild. So yeah, I have a totally different order there. I have Cars at 11, Cars Two at 12.

• 3:01:38David Sims?

  Cars Two?

• 3:01:39Griffin Newman?

  No, I have Cars That Ate Paris at 11, Dead Poets at 12, Plumber at 13, Way Back at 14. I would say the top 10 are all degrees of excellent for me, and Cars That Ate Paris, Dead Poets, and Plumber are all very good. And the only movie of his I like don't enjoy is The Way Back, but I also don't think it's a bad film. I don't think he ever made a bad movie.

• 3:02:01David Sims?

  No? But that's it?

• 3:02:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, that's it. Now, we cut you back to that episode.

• 3:02:12Griffin Newman?

  Wow!

• 3:02:13David Sims?

  Oh my god, I can't believe it. The way back number one for everybody!

• 3:02:16Griffin Newman?

  Across the board, we really changed our mind.

• 3:02:19David Sims?

  Debuting in theaters this week is also The Company Men.

• 3:02:22Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:02:22David Sims?

  The John Wells film.

• 3:02:23Griffin Newman?

  A film I hate.

• 3:02:24David Sims?

  What if the bosses had a tough time?

• 3:02:25Griffin Newman?

  It's actually one of my least favorite movies.

• 3:02:28David Sims?

  Um...

• 3:02:28Speaker 04

  You don't remember what that is?

• 3:02:30Griffin Newman?

  It's about a bunch of, uh, like, uh...

• 3:02:32David Sims?

  Middle managers or whatever.

• 3:02:33Griffin Newman?

  C-suite executives.

• 3:02:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, no, maybe, yeah, they're executives.

• 3:02:35Griffin Newman?

  And how much they struggle in the recession. These guys used to have...

• 3:02:39Speaker 04

  Who's in, who are the, who are the executives?

• 3:02:40David Sims?

  Costner, Affleck, Chris Cooper, Tommy Lee Jones.

• 3:02:44Speaker 04

  These are some guys!

• 3:02:45Griffin Newman?

  Maria Bello.

• 3:02:46Speaker 04

  This sounds watchable.

• 3:02:47Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 3:02:47Speaker 04

  This sounds very watchable.

• 3:02:48Griffin Newman?

  Kevin Costner is non-executive.

• 3:02:50David Sims?

  This sounds very watchable.

• 3:02:52Griffin Newman?

  Costner is a Joe the Plumber...

• 3:02:53David Sims?

  Right.

• 3:02:53Griffin Newman?

  Who hates Ben Affleck, his brother-in-law.

• 3:02:56David Sims?

  Hmm.

• 3:02:56Griffin Newman?

  Who's never worked a real day in his life. These guys used to play golf.

• 3:03:01David Sims?

  Mm-hmm. He's got a point.

• 3:03:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. It's a terrible movie. It's directed, written, directed by John Wells.

• 3:03:07David Sims?

  That's right. I believe...

• 3:03:08Speaker 04

  ER's John Wells.

• 3:03:09David Sims?

  Is August Osage counter later?

• 3:03:10Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 3:03:11David Sims?

  Like, is that, you know?

• 3:03:12Griffin Newman?

  And then he gets burnt.

• 3:03:13Speaker 04

  Well, you know who can answer that question for you?

• 3:03:15Griffin Newman?

  Who?

• 3:03:16Speaker 04

  Tracy Lutz.

• 3:03:17Griffin Newman?

  Good.

• 3:03:19David Sims?

  Uh, and now, of course, he's back on The Pit, right?

• 3:03:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, thank god, he's off our movie screens.

• 3:03:25David Sims?

  Yeah, making good TV for us again.

• 3:03:26Griffin Newman?

  He was like my least favorite middlebrow director.

• 3:03:29David Sims?

  It's, I mean, it's interesting because I also actually associate him with ER's decline, and then I associate him with The West Wing's decline.

• 3:03:36Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:03:37David Sims?

  Because he took over The West Wing, but like, he obviously was important at ER, but he becomes too powerful later in ER and he starts to infect with too many special episodes. It's fine.

• 3:03:45Griffin Newman?

  It's fine.

• 3:03:46David Sims?

  But, uh, The Pit's good, and he's great, I guess. He's my best friend. Um, so, next week on the podcast, of course, we're going to talk about Disclosure Day!

• 3:03:54Griffin Newman?

  Ah!

• 3:03:55David Sims?

  Because that's gonna be pretty new. Yeah, brand new, I think. That's coming out on the 12th. Um, but then, Griffin, what are we gonna do?

• 3:04:02Griffin Newman?

  Then...

• 3:04:04Griffin Newman?

  We're going under the sea.

• 3:04:06David Sims?

  Yes, we will be looking for someone. Who could we be looking for?

• 3:04:10Griffin Newman?

  We'll be trying to find Nemo. An episode we offered to ARP.

• 3:04:14Speaker 04

  I was offered Finding Nemo.

• 3:04:15Griffin Newman?

  You said something to the effect of, "I don't really have any relationship to Finding Nemo. I've seen it twice. Finding Dory, I've obviously seen 25 times."

• 3:04:25Speaker 04

  Astrid's preference is Finding Dory.

• 3:04:27Griffin Newman?

  Your daughter.

• 3:04:28Speaker 04

  By a wide margin.

• 3:04:29David Sims?

  Also my daughter's preference.

• 3:04:29Speaker 04

  Why is that?

• 3:04:30David Sims?

  Because Dory's so cute at the beginning with her big little eyes.

• 3:04:32Speaker 04

  I guess so, but I mean, the whole, most is in an aquarium.

• 3:04:35David Sims?

  My daughter also, well, but my daughter loves the aquarium because she loves the septopus.

• 3:04:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, I like the Beluga whale with the vibrating cranium.

• 3:04:43David Sims?

  It's got good characters.

• 3:04:45Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, it's a fine film.

• 3:04:46David Sims?

  God, good characters, damn it!

• 3:04:48Speaker 04

  I just don't know why she gravitates towards that.

• 3:04:50David Sims?

  I think just because it's like, it's the classic kid thing of like, well, Dory's the best character anyway. So like, a movie with more Dory is just like more funny for me.

• 3:04:57Griffin Newman?

  It's frozen in the pants. You solved my only issue.

• 3:04:59Speaker 04

  I just didn't think I would have that much insight.

• 3:05:02Griffin Newman?

  It's a neurotic father.

• 3:05:05David Sims?

  Alex, neurotic? He's not neurotic. This guy's even killed.

• 3:05:09Griffin Newman?

  This was the best episode we could have gotten you on, but yes, in two weeks, we start our series.

• 3:05:14Speaker 04

  Talking the Walk, a secret side Talking the Walk.

• 3:05:16Griffin Newman?

  You did say this. This is kind of a Talking the Walk. We'll replay this.

• 3:05:20Speaker 04

  Oh, so you're doing Andrew Stanton?

• 3:05:21Griffin Newman?

  We're doing Andrew Stanton.

• 3:05:22Speaker 04

  Sorry, I didn't want to cut off your actual promotion, so people can be excited.

• 3:05:26Griffin Newman?

  His first three films are the cleanest distillation of a Blanche Chack arc we will ever cover.

• 3:05:32David Sims?

  Finding Nemo, big hit. So he makes his, like, sort of like, more ambitious animated film, WALL-E, and then uses that to make something crazy. The action film people have tried to make for 100 years in Hollywood. The biggest scale imaginable.

• 3:05:45Speaker 04

  Does it have a cool title from the books?

• 3:05:47Griffin Newman?

  Absolutely.

• 3:05:48Speaker 04

  It sounds good so far.

• 3:05:48David Sims?

  A title only- John Carter, end of title!

• 3:05:50Griffin Newman?

  A title only John Wells would come up with.

• 3:05:52Speaker 04

  Now, wait a minute. Where's the rest of the title?

• 3:05:54David Sims?

  The title's over! You won't learn where he's from!

• 3:05:57Griffin Newman?

  Basically, the definitive-

• 3:05:58Speaker 04

  Is, what, does Mars call Mars in the movie?

• 3:06:01Griffin Newman?

  No, it's called Barsum, of course.

• 3:06:02Speaker 04

  Oh, okay.

• 3:06:03Griffin Newman?

  Uh, arguably the definitive bounce of the last 15 years, the last 10 years.

• 3:06:09Speaker 03

  The most definitive.

• 3:06:10Griffin Newman?

  It is the shorthand. It has replaced Waterworld. It is the one of our era.

• 3:06:14Speaker 04

  And it destroyed Disney, in a way. Absolutely broke Disney.

• 3:06:17Griffin Newman?

  Changed everything. Uh, then he rebounds with Finding Dory. He, he has this cushion that he can go back to his most successful film. And then in the year 2026, he returns with two films, In the Blink of an Eye, a Hulu original that came out months ago.

• 3:06:35Speaker 04

  Everyone knows this, yeah.

• 3:06:35Griffin Newman?

  We all know this. And then what is guaranteed to be another one of the highest grossing films of all time, Toy Story 5, coming out this summer. A thing I was loathe to cover on main feed, but David twisted my arm and I conceded, maybe it is time to do Andrew Stanton.

• 3:06:50Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, I really had to bully you into this one. Uh, I'm excited. I'm excited to talk about it.

• 3:06:56Speaker 04

  Thanks for having me on this one.

• 3:06:57Griffin Newman?

  Of course.

• 3:06:58Speaker 04

  Griffin has his gift bag.

• 3:06:59Griffin Newman?

  Okay, I'm gonna open my gift bag. Let's see.

• 3:07:01Speaker 04

  It's a lot of stuff you know about.

• 3:07:02Speaker 03

  What's your number one Peter Weir movie?

• 3:07:04Speaker 04

  I mean, if it's not Master and Commander, it's Mosquito Coast. It was definitely Mosquito Coast for a long time.

• 3:07:09Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 3:07:10Speaker 04

  And then

• 3:07:11Griffin Newman?

  Very Alex movie.

• 3:07:11Speaker 04

  Rewatched Master and Commander when we did like a sea series during the pandemic. And I was, I'd always liked the movie. I was like, oh, this, I, I forgot this is like one of the 50 canonically greatest films ever made, period. Like in a, in a, by hands, by human hands.

• 3:07:26Griffin Newman?

  I have a bumper sticker that says, please stop honking. I'm trying to watch the 2025 major motion picture pavements. Merch appreciated.

• 3:07:33Speaker 04

  Been a lot of merch here.

• 3:07:34Speaker 03

  It'd be funnier, though, if it was like Trombo or something, like.

• 3:07:37Griffin Newman?

  These I've been asking you to hold on to forever. These are movie promotional stickers of my face from Pavements.

• 3:07:43Speaker 03

  Oh, there you go.

• 3:07:44Griffin Newman?

  These are bags I got. Are they the full band or are these just me?

• 3:07:47Speaker 04

  No, there's the full band, but I brought the ones that had you in the front.

• 3:07:49Griffin Newman?

  Thank you. I really appreciate it.

• 3:07:51Speaker 03

  I just want to shout out with the bumper sticker that today I pulled in right after ARP into the parking garage. And I knew it was him because he had the Pavements bumper sticker.

• 3:08:01Speaker 04

  I put that sticker on my car, inherited the car from my grandmother, and I covered up the, um, Biden Harris bumper sticker that I couldn't take off with the Pavements bumper sticker.

• 3:08:08Speaker 03

  Good call.

• 3:08:09Griffin Newman?

  Pavements hat, Pavements ball cap. The Tick vs. Arthur VHS collection. Oh, it only has the one episode. It's a classic 21-minute VHS.

• 3:08:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's right.

• 3:08:19Griffin Newman?

  But you found this, and I immediately realized this is quite a pricey VHS on the secondhand market.

• 3:08:25Speaker 04

  Well.

• 3:08:26Griffin Newman?

  That tends to be going for over $100.

• 3:08:27Speaker 04

  It goes for over $100?

• 3:08:29Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:08:30Speaker 04

  That was a dollar when I bought it.

• 3:08:31Griffin Newman?

  It's crazy. Yoked up Arthur, carrying Carmelita, his love interest that we never got to on the live-action show.

• 3:08:36Speaker 04

  I've had that waiting for you for nine months.

• 3:08:37Griffin Newman?

  All of my love interests were not human on the show. And then, of course, the Buddy Christ. A scene in the hit film Dogma.

• 3:08:45Speaker 04

  You guys are benefiting from me getting all the stuff from my dad's storage locker.

• 3:08:48Griffin Newman?

  I really appreciate this.

• 3:08:49Speaker 04

  All these sealed toys I forgot about.

• 3:08:51David Sims?

  And you know what? We're gonna take pictures and post it on social, folks.

• 3:08:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 3:08:55Griffin Newman?

  It'll be part of the carousel. What was the other thing you said you wanted in the carousel?

• 3:08:59Speaker 04

  Ben's spawn.

• 3:08:59Griffin Newman?

  Oh, future spawn, yeah. ARP, thank you for being here.

• 3:09:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, thanks.

• 3:09:03Griffin Newman?

  Hey, you had two movies last year.

• 3:09:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 3:09:05Griffin Newman?

  Both of which people should watch.

• 3:09:06David Sims?

  So for this year?

• 3:09:07Speaker 04

  Uh, zero.

• 3:09:08David Sims?

  Oh, interesting.

• 3:09:09Griffin Newman?

  For now.

• 3:09:10Speaker 04

  Um, for the year. I'm calling my shot.

• 3:09:12Griffin Newman?

  You're calling your shot?

• 3:09:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, much like Peter Weir.

• 3:09:14Griffin Newman?

  It's a no-movie.

• 3:09:15Speaker 04

  I'd rather explore sunken WWII submarines than get out of bed at 6:00 a.m. to go be yelled at.

• 3:09:21David Sims?

  Well, I believe you do probably get out of bed at 6:00 a.m. to be yelled at, given that you are a parent of a young child.

• 3:09:27Speaker 04

  Not by like an A.D. Right, yes. Um, yeah. Well, Video Heaven's on Criterion Channel. That's the only thing I care about, people watching, because I benefit directly from it.

• 3:09:35David Sims?

  Well, but Pabents is on movie, I assume.

• 3:09:37Speaker 04

  Pabents on movie, but I'm not gonna see a dime there. But Video Heaven, like, that's my movie.

• 3:09:42David Sims?

  Yeah, right, you own, like, the movie outright practically.

• 3:09:45Griffin Newman?

  Can you give the quick pitch to people who don't know? Because if you listen to this podcast, it's true, real nerdy shit.

• 3:09:51Speaker 04

  If you've made it to cusp of hour three on a podcast, you would probably enjoy a three-hour essay film about the history of videotape as a medium and video stores told entirely through clips from movies and television depicting video stores as physical spaces. Uh, I made this movie, has 180 film and TV show clips in it, accompanied by an essay read by Maya Hawke.

• 3:10:14Griffin Newman?

  And if you're hearing this and going, "Well, this sounds a little, a little..."

• 3:10:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, I don't know if I can listen to three hours of Blank Check and watch a three-hour movie at the same time.

• 3:10:21Griffin Newman?

  A little educational, a little dry. Uh, lest you be concerned, the last 30 minutes features ARP just doing a drive-by on like 15 early 2000s independent films.

• 3:10:32Speaker 04

  It does feature Amy Heckerling's Loser.

• 3:10:35Griffin Newman?

  It does?

• 3:10:36Speaker 04

  "I spent 10 years on this movie, Griffin walked out of seeing it and said, 'What, no Freaky Tales?'"

• 3:10:41Griffin Newman?

  This is our running bit that I keep asking why Freaky Tales didn't make the cut. And I keep demanding that News and Deals respects the existence of Freaky Tales, just that it exists.

• 3:10:50Speaker 04

  Maybe give Tracy Letts a 4K of Freaky Tales.

• 3:10:53Griffin Newman?

  Fuck, I don't know if it can arrive in time. Cause that's Lionsgate Limited. I don't know what their quickest shipping option is. He's coming here in like three days.

• 3:10:59Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 3:11:00Griffin Newman?

  I was looking at overnighting some Amazon stuff and Freaky Tales doesn't have a wide release.

• 3:11:04Speaker 04

  From upstate, there's the Lionsgate Studios on the Hudson.

• 3:11:08Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 3:11:08Speaker 04

  I'm sure you guys have seen this, David. It's like near Yankee Stadium. You ever seen the Lionsgate Studios? It might be past Yankee Stadium.

• 3:11:14David Sims?

  Um, probably.

• 3:11:15Speaker 03

  We had to actually send one of our hats to that location because they're the production company that's involved with the Jon Hamm Show.

• 3:11:25Speaker 04

  Did that ever come out?

• 3:11:26David Sims?

  It's coming out soon. I literally got a text from a friend today watching a screener being like, are you guys aware Jon Hamm listens to your show on this show?

• 3:11:33Speaker 04

  I know, that's why I'm invested.

• 3:11:34Griffin Newman?

  That's what we should plug. You're in an upcoming episode of our Friends and Neighbors.

• 3:11:38Speaker 04

  Forget about this passion film that I spent 10 years on and love dearly. Watch this Apple show.

• 3:11:43Griffin Newman?

  I love Video Heaven.

• 3:11:44Speaker 04

  Yes, I love it too. And it's on the Criterion Channel for the foreseeable future.

• 3:11:48Griffin Newman?

  Great.

• 3:11:48Speaker 03

  It's excellent.

• 3:11:49Speaker 04

  But, um, people are really watching it on there.

• 3:11:51Griffin Newman?

  It's great.

• 3:11:52David Sims?

  That's weird.

• 3:11:53Speaker 04

  They kept sending out there like what's popular these days and it was always up there.

• 3:11:56Griffin Newman?

  It's high, it's highly recommended and I just want to clarify that fat cocked gentlemen thieves in New York City are always listening to the Halloween episode of Blank Check featuring Alex Ross Perry as depicted in the Apple Plus series.

• 3:12:10Speaker 04

  Blank Check fans can say they were there first.

• 3:12:12Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 3:12:13Speaker 04

  And yeah, people are always like, wow, that movie, it's two hours and 50 minutes. That's insanely long. And I'm like, guys, if you listen to Blank Check, if an episode of that length drops-

• 3:12:21David Sims?

  I remember when you told me, you were like, it's gonna be on three hours. And I was like, oh, that's pretty long. You're like, I figure anyone who's watching this is cool with watching it for three hours.

• 3:12:27Speaker 04

  If a Blank Check episode comes out that's 250, people are like, I guess David had to be somewhere that day. This is a crazy amount of time to not spend marinating in the love of cinema.

• 3:12:36David Sims?

  I wanted to point out to you that we are-

• 3:12:38Griffin Newman?

  We're about to hit three hours.

• 3:12:39David Sims?

  About to hit three hours, so we are done-

• 3:12:40Speaker 04

  I also feel like we wrapped up half an hour ago.

• 3:12:42David Sims?

  We wrapped up a fucking hour ago.

• 3:12:45Speaker 04

  I looked up, it was 2:30, I felt good.

• 3:12:46David Sims?

  Ben agrees. I felt the exact same way, and now I feel less good, but I feel okay.

• 3:12:51Griffin Newman?

  I think we're doing great, and I think everyone's gonna be really happy.

• 3:12:52Speaker 03

  But David, but David, look on the brighter side, there's more toys.

• 3:12:55Griffin Newman?

  There's more toys.

• 3:12:56David Sims?

  Just what I love, just what I need.

• 3:12:57Griffin Newman?

  For sound insulation-

• 3:12:59Speaker 03

  So-

• 3:12:59David Sims?

  This is his new thing, by the way, justifying that he's adding stuff. If he suffocates us, then at least there'll be-

• 3:13:05Griffin Newman?

  For sound!

• 3:13:05Speaker 03

  It's absorbing sound.

• 3:13:07David Sims?

  So, uh, tune in next week for Disclosure Day, uh, hope that rocks, and then we're doing Andrew Stanton, and then we're doing whoever won March Madness, I assume Chris Columbus.

• 3:13:16Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, do you wanna claim one of those episodes now?

• 3:13:18David Sims?

  My Centennial Man.

• 3:13:20Speaker 04

  If he wins, I will tell on mic the story I'm about to tell you guys about why I find it so aggravating whenever you're like, "And he's the nicest guy in Hollywood."

• 3:13:29David Sims?

  Can't wait.

• 3:13:30Speaker 04

  I'll tell this story privately right now, and then I promise if he wins, I will come on and make people feel bad about this victory. There's no chance he's going to win.

• 3:13:36David Sims?

  No, I don't think so. Uh, maybe he wins.

• 3:13:40Griffin Newman?

  You've given me an idea here. Uh, thank you all for listening, please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. Uh, tune in next week for Disclosure Day. Thank you all for riding the high seas of Peter Weir with us.

• 3:13:50David Sims?

  Absolutely.

• 3:13:51Griffin Newman?

  And, uh, ARP, I'm gonna read you a deadline announcement that just happened.

• 3:13:54Speaker 04

  Oh, good.

• 3:13:55Griffin Newman?

  Ben, can we bleep out the announcement, and I just wanna get ARP's reaction to it?

• 3:13:58Speaker 04

  Good, good.

• 3:13:59Griffin Newman?

  Okay? So bleep out what I'm about to say-

• 3:14:02David Sims?

  Right.

• 3:14:02Griffin Newman?

  And then get ARP's reaction. Brings [BLEEP] to direct [BLEEP] and [BLEEP] to script [BLEEP] spinoff [BLEEP].

• 3:14:13Speaker 04

  I mean, this is gonna get the shit back on track. This is what the people want.

• 3:14:18David Sims?

  It's a real bummer.

• 3:14:19Speaker 04

  This is definitely what the public wants.

• 3:14:21David Sims?

  When I think [BLEEP], I think these three faces.

• 3:14:25Speaker 04

  Look at, I mean, I appreciate that all the progressive gains of the last decade have been erased by the current political climate, but this is a bridge too far. We can't let people like this run Hollywood again.

• 3:14:39David Sims?

  And as always, or that was-

• 3:14:41Griffin Newman?

  That was the end as always.

• 3:14:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's, that's it.

• 3:14:49Speaker 04

  At some point, there'll be a lag and I can start unboxing this bag of presents.

• 3:14:54Griffin Newman?

  I can't wait.

• 3:14:55Speaker 03

  I'm excited.

• 3:14:57Speaker 04

  Nothing for David, but what do you get for the man who has everything?

• 3:15:01David Sims?

  A little bit, yeah. I mean, people are having this, I'm gonna turn 40 in a month and everyone's like,

• 3:15:05Speaker 03

  "What do I buy?" Look what he's got recently.

• 3:15:08Speaker 04

  Is that the stop sign?

• 3:15:10Speaker 03

  Correct. And it's two-sided.

• 3:15:12Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 3:15:13David Sims?

  This is to shut Griffin up, I think, is the idea.

• 3:15:15Griffin Newman?

  Sometimes he feels like the podcast is going by too quickly.

• 3:15:18David Sims?

  Yeah, right. Slow is definitely not something we really need to use.

• 3:15:27Speaker 03

  Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hosley. Our creative producer is Marie Bardi Salinas. And our associate producer is AJ McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithy. Research by JJ Birch. Our theme song is by Lain Montgomery and the Great American Novel. With additional music by Alex Mitchell. Artwork by Joe Bowen, Holly Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minnick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon Blank Check Special Features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes.

• 3:16:12Speaker 03

  Follow us on social @BlankCheckPod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Checkbook, on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.